What's best: Violent Computer Games or Porn?

Porn hasn't really changed in the last 30 years has it?

Violence in computer games has.

Violent computer porn obv

What's the difference?

Whether the joystick or buttons you push are organic or not.

"Porn hasn't really changed in the last 30 years has it?"

pretty sure it has.

well, the means of distribution definitely have.

i'm talking about what you see on screen, almost entirely

people started shaving

i've never actually seen hardcore stuff from before the 90s tho xp

more niche fetishes have been satisfied

Porn's content has changed pretty radically in the last 30 years.

I am talking about violent computer games btw

The whole Gonzo sector has brought exciting new brands of misogyny to the party for a start.

examples

not links or anim gifs obv

I wouldn't want my kids (the hypothetical ones, that is) playing Modern Warfare 2 or becoming overly familiar with Ron's body of work

lolled at parentheses

that is the money quote (as they say)

it's a little messy but I get the message

xxxposts

Bit busy for the next hour or so but, basically, without getting into a rosy glasses view of the 70s, the portrayal of women in mainstream 70s was far less about degrading the characters than a lot of mainstream 00s porno.

"Parents are not talking about this with their kids enough," said Craig Gross, who is a former pastor and has set up a website to help people addicted to pornography.

First time I read that, I saw a "get" before "addicted"...

you don't even need the 'get' for a lol

tbh, I wouldn't be looking to Ron Jeremy or evangelist pastors for clear-headed analysis of the issues here.

Craig Gross, who is a former pastor

So he found god, got addicted to porn and then ditched the former?

At least Ron Jeremy looks like a real person. As for video games, are they visually stimulating, or are they just about shooting each other?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cXoVSALNRc

At least Ron Jeremy looks like a real person.

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2009/02/ron%20jeremy.jpg

hopefully today's more misogynistic porn stars will age better!

Why is there no option for "neither". I mean, the right answer is that you talk to your kids like people and explain what you think is good and bad about both.

Not saying young children should be watching hardcore porn, but all this stuff is out there so it's better to address it than to make it taboo.

There both kinda boring, and ultimately unedifying.

Am I old-fashioned if I think that the appropriate response to a child found with either is "you are too young for this" followed by swift confiscation and possible punishment?

nah, sounds quite sensible really.

I think that's exactly the response that will make the kid seek out more of the same though.

Yeah, and if the kid gets caught that is going to be a supremely unhappy child.

punishment never made me seek out more of the same

"Porn hasn't really changed in the last 30 years has it?"

Uh, like yeah it has.

It's not the punishment that makes it titillating. It's the denial.

But I'm speculating because my parents didn't hide reality from me so I'm pretty well adjusted on these things.

porno cinema will be pretty much extinct within the next ten years, certainly as a non-interactive, de-personalised dvd experience - hardcore fuck flicks will soon seem as quaint and distant as the nudie cutie, the naturist pic, the 'roughie', and so on

this sleazebag featured on a louis theroux documentary, and his story pretty neatly encapsulates the direction that porn has gone in since the advent of home video, but it's not pretty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Zicari

Since when is deciding that what is appropriate for your underaged child re: viewing pornography or playing violent videogames "hiding reality from them"

that

i would def be way less worried about my (future imaginarium style) kid playing grand theft auto 7 than seeing some of the creeeeeepy porn that lies right around the corner on the internet.

fuck it, i get weirded out by the fact that those girls gone wild commercials are on cable in the early late night where a little insomniac me could have found them

then again, my memories of discovering porn at an early age was that it was confusing and kind of gross

focusing any porn argument on idiots like R0b Bl4ck isn't much different from focusing on a Japanese rape simulator video game, and acting like it is representative of the mainstream.

I know this whole poll isn't to be taken super seriously, but comparing one type of video game (violent) to all of porn is kind of bogus, too. I vote that porn is 'best', because it is so broad.

Even breaking down violence in video games; I personally feel like a Diablo type of game where monsters explode in bloody gore when you kill them, is actually way less destructive from super-realistic first person shooters like Modern Warfare 2.

Since when is deciding that what is appropriate for your underaged child re: viewing pornography or playing violent videogames "hiding reality from them"

^^ this. pornography and violent video games are both based on fantasy, not reality!

btw my exposure to porn at a young age was A++++++, would expose myself again

haha yeah, i liked it back then waaaay more than i do now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw7lUMC-m3Q

this debate would be more interesting if it was about what is more destructive to adults.

^^ this. pornography and violent video games are both based on fantasy, not reality!

― Big K.R.U.T. (Curt1s Stephens), Wednesday, January 13, 2010

maybe not YOUR reality.

there is nothing wrong with my reality. what is wrong, mr. harvell, is that your porn and video games are too boring.

yeah, the whole point of porn is that it shows something that occurred in actuality

video games, very much not.

strongo plz give us yer email so that we may rectify this situation w/an outreach program

can't make a decent "reacharound program" joke, booo

thousand points of fleshlight

If anti-gamers weren't generally people with whom I disagreed about everything, I'd feel a lot more comfortable saying that the total acceptedness of pretend-shooting-each-other as a hobby for adults makes me really really really uncomfortable.

i'm pleasantly surprised that there hasn't been more crossover between these two tbh

thousand points of fleshlight

http://www.simleague.net/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif

judging by my limited interaction with ps3-era violence-type games, there are too many sub-menus and button combos and whatnot to be truly effective as creepy catharsis. imo, etc.

i'm pleasantly surprised that there hasn't been more crossover between these two tbh

Crossovers tend to be like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer%27s_Revenge

2 girls 1 xbox

wow the See Also on that wiki is a whole lot of shit i didn't want to know about

Wii on me

okay reading about RapeLay is major bummerz

Quote from lesbian scientist "associate" of mine via Facebook:

"Because watching real women (and men) suffer real abuse and pain is exactly the same as clicking a mouse on some computer generated polygons in order to make red pixels appear, am I right?"

Because all porn is abuse.

her university should revoke her degree in lesbian science

I think I saw a porno with this plotline ^

Because all porn is abuse.

― exploding angel vagina (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

it's an argument with more to it than "playing doom makes you kill"

I think they're about level.

what about playing leisure suit larry

super pathetic but probably not bad for your mind

phew

the extremes of both of these things creep me out to an insane degree, but i gotta say it seems like there are ways to make porn that arent deeply disturbing whereas im not sure the same thing can be said abt violent video games

violence detached from narrative creeps me out a lot more than sex detached from narrative, its true.

then again i sometimes like being creeped out so

max was freaked about mario jumping on turtles

then again, my memories of discovering porn at an early age was that it was confusing and kind of gross

― .81818181818181818181818181 changed everything (jjjusten), Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Man you missed out on one of life's great moments.

not that this negates any argument but there are places and times without videogames or porn that are extraordinarily violent and sexist (also more boring)

sexist porn is pretty boring too tbf

the extremes of both of these things creep me out to an insane degree, but i gotta say it seems like there are ways to make porn that arent deeply disturbing whereas im not sure the same thing can be said abt violent video games

― max, Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:27 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark

don't really see how most violent video games are any more disturbing than violent movies tbh

well if i really felt like having this argument id say that you have a different relationship w/ video games that you do w/ movies (active vs. passive, aggressor vs. witness)--but i mostly agree with you

i think that if either of these things is a big negative 'influence' on a kid then the parenting that's happening is not likely to be A1 in the first place.

that's why I think it would be more interesting to argue about which hurts adults more.

Violent video games don't bug me at all bcz they're 100% made-up shit. It's a bunch of polygons hurting each other, not anything that is alive/sapient/human/real/etc. Not all porn is bad, but some films feature some really degrading behavior, and that shit is being done to real live actual ("paid and consenting") people. That is way more disturbing to me than even something like RapeLay.

interesting use of ""

it indicates that I think the situation is a little more complicated than that

as is the view of 'a bunch of made up polygons' in the head of a kid playing a violent shoot em up, i guess. i'm not real hard to either side of the line to be honest, but to start blanket qualifying porn as exploitation while all but denying that anything 'real' is happening in a video game seems a little inconsistent in terms of the question.

I was trying hard not to say "porn is all exploitative!"

Wait a minute, I just looked at the original question.

This is stupid.

"Kids"? Worse for "kids"? Like, what age of kids are we talking about? Are we talking about ten-year-olds or seventeen-year-olds? The developmental spectrum of people who could be called "kids" is so broad as to make this question almost meaningless.

fair enough xp :)

basically by the time the kid is 14, they are pretty much done; it's just raging hormones that sometimes make them crazy but the core personality is pretty much cemented

jeez 14? i've pretty much volte-faced since i was maybe 22, 23, so i don't know bout that dan.

It's tempting, and by now an old liberal saw, to say that graphic sex is not as bad for kids as graphic violence. But I kind of agree with Abbott on this one.

Violent video games have "a much bigger negative influence on kids" than pornography, a leading porn star has claimed.

Not if it's your kids starring in the porn.

not if it's your kid getting shot by a maladjusted 15 year old with his dad's rifle?

i mean

If we're drawing unfair and specious arguments about causation here, I think there's a lot more rapes in this world than killing sprees.

drawing from that wiki on Custer's revenge, it's moronic unsuportable quotes like this:

Andrea Dworkin claimed the game "generated many gang rapes of Native American women."

that make me think that Dworkin is infinitely more damaging than good.

jeez 14? i've pretty much volte-faced since i was maybe 22, 23, so i don't know bout that dan.

My argument there is really that the type of experience that would turn you into a different person during that time period is the same type of experience that would turn you into a different person say at age 30; you're talking less about "who am I, what do I want out of this life, what type of person am I", which is the "growing up" process, and more about "holy shit, this thing that just happened has fundamentally changed the way I view the world" type events.

xp for that to be fair, you'd surely have to compare rape sprees to killing sprees, or rapes to shootings.

In terms of the determination and illness necessary to do it, I'd compare rape to strangling with your bare hands. Not shooting.

ok I think maybe I shld stay off this thread.

sorry abbott, not trying to be a dick about this.

No it wasn't you it was "naw rape's more like STRANGLING someone really."

I mean that it's far more hateful and twisted and fucked up. You don't have to watch someone die if you shoot them.

So perhaps shooting people is more video-game like than other capital crimes, and perhaps the line between video-shooting people and shooting is a little bit shorter than it ought to be.

But porn = rape is an absurd argument.

xp to dan,

you don't know anybody that came out of their shell in their late teens (without it being an earth shattering event as described)?

that said, i suppose lolcollege and moving out of home is too hard to separate from a lot of it, but that's maybe why i find 14 a little young for the final lock on the average personality.

i just think physical violence and gun violence are just nothing alike, without bringing sexual assault into it.

xp Also, sorry Abbott. I agree that this is a dark, dark path.

to answer the question in the hypothetical kids sense, i'd rather they were playing shoot em ups, but i'd balance that by saying i wouldn't expect them to die virgins

guys i don't really think drawing straight lines from porn --> rape and from violent games --> killing ppl is the best way to think about whether these things might have bad effects on the ppl who consume them

I was trying to say that line of reasoning was "unfair and specious" in both directions.

xp otmfm

so what effects, if any, are we agreeing on?

uh... I will agree that porn makes you horny.

both result in people concern trolling

abbott OTM tbh

I think so, too, and I will shut up right... NOW.

write in option for STFU everyone

the way i see it there's enormous variance in both categories and this is a silly premise for a thread, but the vast majority of porn is contemptible and in some way disgusting - wouldn't say this about violent computer games. thing is i have only use for porn in my life. on balance i'll not vote, but i'll say that if i caught a child watching exploitative pornography i'd be much more dismayed than if they were playing wolfenstein. if i caught them watching decent, non-genderist amateur porn, then i'd not really have a problem [/tuomas]

decent non-genderist amateur porn sounds like a real balst i must say

though i haven't a clue what 'non genderist' means in this context- a good time had by all, i assume?

not biased towards one gender - i.e. porn where the discourse isn't 1 overcoming 2 (or, only dominating 2 if at 2's command...grey areas), or 1 and 2 overcoming 3, or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 coming over 8, but porn where the overall discourse is one of mutual enjoyment - is this too much to ask for?

in the case of exploitative gay porn, i don't like it but at least it doesn't send out misandric signals. exploitative lesbian porn is often filmed by men and involves male-type penetrations, and can be just as bad as exploitative straight porn. you can almost hear the cameraman beating himself off

does terrible acting depicting enjoyment count? if they're really doing their best, like?

porn/exploitation discussion always leads me straight into work/exploitation directions though, LJ

there's a reason i can only stand to watch amateur porn these days xp

haha! well, i don't believe there should really be a porn industry. it shouldn't be illegal but there just shouldn't be a need for it!

and yeah, that's obtuse of me, but deliberately so

other industries there 'shouldn't be'

military
justice
fast food
recycling
etc

yeah i know, soon as i typed it really, although i'd say porn is far more replaceable and unnecessary than all of those. because it's replaceable with porn uploaded to the internet by people in their spare time, which is better porn anyway, and sends out better messages to kids. where there's a market there's a buck to be made but at this point in time how on earth everyone isn't relying on free porn i will never know. why spend your fucking hard-earned money to see a silicon woman get double-penetrated by two losers?

because i have an abnormally large and obedient penis and i like to think that it's a fallback employment option if things go south in the social housing sphere.

be lookin' out fo' ya, diggler macrampanty

i don't fully understand the assumption that amateur porn is 'ethical' porn and professional porn isn't.

aside from it being tough to genuinely ascertain 'amateur' porn from 'there's a good market for amateur porn, let's shoot some' footage.

not all amateur porn is ethical! not much is, in fact. but professional porn is generally a very tough place to be unless yr jenna 'i have a blog and a thick skin' jameson and then it's probably still tough but she's gotta rep for the trade that makes her famous

so did elvis.

working for a living is a shitty way to earna living, adult film at 11

if professional porn was completely gender-equal, gave free, unpressured choice to the actors, and was as far as it could be 'authentic' (y'know, seemed genuinely interesting rather than methodical, clinical and utterly depressing) then yeah they can film all the kinky shit they want imo but basically all professional porn these days sticks to a degrading and awful formula and brings out the puritan in me

yeah, i'm actually not fighting you there, but how's that different to music, film, food preparation?

not every meal i make reaches its conclusion with a great big phallus spurting cum over the obedient face of an oppressed woman

just some of them?

haa, that was left intentionally open

i mean film and music have things rotten about their industries too, but they do a great and valuable service that not every member of the public can do, and get it right a lot of the time too. also they don't persist in oppressing an entire gender. yes, there should be more female directors/singers in the charts maybe, but it's not an across-the-board denigration

i'm basically saying porn should be a bastion of socialist principle

porn- a service by definition, in that lots of people are willing to pay for it to continue being produced. 'great & valuable' we'll have to leave to the individual to decide i think.

i don't want to just keep picking your responses apart, it's not like i've got any great revelation here myself, but i'm just not convinced that throwing a big fat cock into your workday life makes it all of a sudden not still, y'know, your workday life. pretty sure that sewerage technicians do a lot of things that the average joe wouldn't in order to make money, and that counts for most professions out there.

boy, this is tough! both have been with me pretty much every step of the way, like a couple of trusty old friends...

went with porn, since violent videogaming has yet to make me bust a nut

btw don't get me started on prostitution

violent videogaming has yet to make me bust a nut

ur doin it wrong

It's not the punishment that makes it titillating. It's the denial.

But I'm speculating because my parents didn't hide reality from me so I'm pretty well adjusted on these things.

― Nate Carson, Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:08 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

you're a shithead just fyi so it looks like they fucked up somewhere along the way

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I'm basically with Dan on this one, both are detrimental to kids below a certain maturity level, and neither need be detrimental to kids above a certain maturity level.

Given the choice though, I'd have to say porn. I mean imagery in porn could shape a kid's view of gender and sexuality in a negative way. Adolescent boys in particular are pretty prone to objectification of females and a conquest mentality. I could see porn reinforcing that.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

porno cinema will be pretty much extinct within the next ten years, certainly as a non-interactive, de-personalised dvd experience - hardcore fuck flicks will soon seem as quaint and distant as the nudie cutie, the naturist pic, the 'roughie', and so on

that's bullshit

my hands would be too busy whacking off to bother with interactivity tbh

oh shit this isn't the TMI board

it wasn't

Twerent

what is interactive porn? (genuine qn.) avatar VR shit?

http://www.welookdoyou.com/fufme/

At the moment, "interactive porn" either means a) computer games with porn content, or more usually b) DVDs that are similar to interactive quiz DVDs, except with porn.

I don't think there's any current VR porn which is a shame.

Unless you count some areas of Second Life and some other online environments. Er, so I've heard...

guys interactive porn is called 'sex' look it up there are several sites on the internet all about it

oh yeah and also this

have you shagged ariane yet?

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40 xpost

i've no wish to dispute ken c's credentials as a porn wanker, but there are plenty of recent articles like this pointing to a crisis in the traditional porn film industries:

http://www.thewrap.com/article/1394

i guess by 'interactivity' i mean cam2cam porn and so on

But others like Stephen Yagielowicz, the managing editor of XBiz, say the hype over Tubes is overblown, noting that those who visit the sites aren’t the type of consumers who would pay for content anyway.

“The porn industry likes to have its boogeymen. Right now, that’s the Tube sites. People start to buzz, ‘Tubes are killing us – where can I get a good script?’” he said.

Yagielowicz believes that a majority of the Tube sites will soon shut down because the cost of running them and paying for their large bandwidths can be up to hundreds of thousands of dollars – money that isn’t being recouped by a couple of ads.

“If people really want to make money off of porn on the Internet, they need to realize that porn is a non-essential product,” he said. “So what else can I offer you on my page? You have to monetize the eyeballs. I think a lot of the larger Tubes will start aggregating social networks and niche user communities, developing into pay sites by adding membership and adding value at an upsell.”

monetize the balls

Interactive erotic software. The wave of the future, Dude. One hundred percent electronic!