The (Now-Overrated) ILX Top 100 Films of the 2000s Poll Results

And so it begins...

I'm presenting them a little slowly, which will give folks more time to talk about each film, I don't want to rush past one film to get to the next one.

Are you ready?

yes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/morvern.jpg

oh yuck. really?

britishes ruined another poll

I saw this movie alone on my second to last night in London last year in NOvember when it was freezing cold after all my friends had flown back to the states and I was stuck there knowing no-body for the next day. I didn't know anything about it but I kept seeing the ads around and was obsessed with them. It was the most heartbreaking film I'd ever seen, I was almost numb when I walked out of there parts of it were so beautiful.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday)

glad i could start this off w/the appropriate "gah you are all idiots" vibe btw

omar you are a king thx for doing this

also only on ilx would people complain about the movie that came in LAST PLACE

o what horror awaits us in the 99th position

Love this reveal idea, though it won't work on my phone. That's OK, some results were meant to be seen on the big monitor.

thinking there are maybe a few other movies that came in laster place dude, like #101-948

oh enough already.

lol j/k

it's such a sadness that you think you've seen a poll on your fucking telephone, get real

^ suggest new thread title BTW

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/pianoteacher.jpg

I don't think the film-maker was trying to shock for shock's sake. (But then, how can you tell?)

I thought the dark aspects of the film were introduced very well - there was a great 'rhythm' to the film that the it plays with internally. I also love the bit when she goes out onto the ice and the way the shot is framed makes it look like she's falling into nothingness. It's an obvious thing to say but visually it reminded me of 'White'.

― Will

I thought that the Piano Teacher was one of the most moving and honest films I've ever seen abt loneliness - Isabelle Huppert's face all by itself 'said' so much about the fear of rejection, the terror of being alone, that terrible need to speak abt yourself and yet not wanting to reveal anything, the way that love and hatred and envy and desire can literally make you mad. Is it too obvious to say that the S/M stuff is part an overall metaphor of ENSLAVEMENT - to talent, to one's family, to the art life, or the bourgeois life, to our lovers, our needs, our daily lives.

― Andrew L (Andrew L)

What don't you like about Morvern Callar, jjjusten?

(might have to take the font up a size or two...)

#100: Good, liked her first one a bit better. (As on my list of 100 ballot, I limited myself to one per filmmaker unless I felt very strongly otherwise.)

#99: OK, bye

lol i di'in even vote for morvern callar. but i did vote it #1 of 2002 in my EOY for london's once-great time out magazine. heady days.

btw fuck haneke.

The list format looks great, omar.

kudos to omar for beautifully designed results thread btw.

I never saw this, but I remember all my IDM-netpals getting very excited about the soundtrack when it came out.

poll will prolly be lousy with haneke so let's get it all out now guyz

haaaa i voted for morvern <3 u indie british chix

xxpost i meant morvern callar

also omar font size is perfect (would actually go smaller!)

lol i can't tell on this firefox here, it looks pretty small

even Haneke fan tabes agrees w/ me that TPT is lousy. As I've said, John Waters shoulda done it.

Lynne Ramsay will have a 9-year drought before her next feature comes out, poor gal.

excited. only posted my ballot last night.

ehh, it was just such a maudlin empty exercise in telegraphed boohoo mopeyness, and the main character is so utterly unsympathetic and boring and stupid. also, a movie where nothing happens, which is fine if it is entertaining on the way, but this isn't. xpost to jaymc

hate 2 namedrop but my ex's ex had a bit-part in morvern callar.

I guess most of the non-English lang films are going to feature genital slashing

one can only hope

if only!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/dogville3-1.jpg

I love this movie even more from the distance of 9 months than I did at the time. A great movie. I was glad the VV film poll accorded it some respect, since it was so conspicuously absent from most mainstream media best-of lists. I even like that so many people hate it, and that it severely unnerved and repulsed my gory-video-game-playing little brother.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra)

I think I mostly agree with Adam on this thread, having just seen the film. There was a lot that I liked about the film -- the performances especially, and the staging/lighting. I even like the idea of the film as parable -- but crucially more for its formal elements (narration, fairy-tale-ish classical score, division of chapters) than anything else. I enjoyed watching it (to a point), but if I dwell too much on the allegorical elements, it starts to bother me. Allegories rarely sit well with me, anyway.

I thought it was interesting, in light of what happens immediately thereafter, that Paul Bettany's final monologue is basically the voice of von Trier -- or maybe von Trier mocking himself? -- "Didn't you find this illustration edifying?"

― jaymc (jaymc)

Best film of the year for me, along with 'Howl's Moving Castle'.

― Momus (Momus)

booooooo

Piano Teacher had great things in it but by the end I was really annoyed. Callar pretty great. Wish Ramsey could have done the Lovely Bones.

Dogville placing so low is a victory imo.

two in a row like lye being shoveled into my eyes -- but I thought they'd be higher! yes, xp

loving the way this is turning out. hoping for an ilx cinephile stroke-out before no. 75.

ewwww

are you listing # of first place votes when they have any?

i believe you're thinking of a different sort of stroke-out, doctor.

Funny that I was quoted there, since I don't remember much about the movie and didn't vote for it.

thanks omar for running the numbers! (and taking the time to cook up these natty images)

The list format looks great, omar.

― maciej recognizing trill, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:00 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

kudos to omar for beautifully designed results thread btw.

― the highest per-vote vag so far (history mayne), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:01 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yah bro

shg, there's more than one kind?

own dogville, have never watched it. video stores going belly up do wonders for the "might as well buy this i'll probably watch it some day" collection

hah just occurred to me tho that you should also put the title and stats in text for those who have images turned off and also for the inevitable eventual disappearance of the images from the internet

yeah i'll be putting in the first place votes...none quite yet...

i have had dogville for six months now and still can't face it. it sounds just awful.

probably a good idea......i will add that at the end of the reveal posts.

nicole kidman is still lookin' good as of 'dogville', iirc.

like lye being shoveled into my eyes

2nd nominee for new thread title

havent seen any of them so far - am a haneke and von trier fan tho :/

I've been intrigued and burned by so many von trier movies that I've just given up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/happygolucky.jpg

Happy-Go-Lucky was one of the most daring, moving films I've seen in ages, and it has an incredible lead performance by Sally Hawkins, so I gotta got for that. I'm probably exactly the kind of viewer it was targeted for, though, because the whole movie is a big anti-cynicist manifesto, and I'm a big anti-cynic.

- Tuomas

t-dawg idk how u feel about this but when i was watching this it was pretty much exact like how i picture your lyfe just less fighting for the rights of ppl on internet msg boards. also that driving instructor is how i picture ilx poster whiney g weingarten right down to assaulting attractive dark haired yung women

um that sd dope movie ~~ chilling on the balcony wearnin t shirts and underwear just u no glowing and shit ~~ thats real lyfe

― nutrional socialist (Lamp)

watched happy go lucky last night - really enjoyed it and <3 mike leigh generally - ws all this wite girls def

i personally related to how poppys frustration w/the world manifested as passive aggressive discursive joking - its trying to make people relax and be natural w/o recognizing that this desire has control freak roots of its own

so yeah she was an optimist who believes in the goodness of people - and she was pretty good at connecting when shit got real - but she was also quite willfully personally unexamined - there was a whole lot of ignorance and projection going on

― ice cr?m

#97
Happy-Go-Lucky
Mike Leigh
2008
United Kingdom
210.5 pts, 11 votes

actually did watch the beginning of dogville once

falled asleep

I also own but have never watched dogville, bought DVD for $2 at ocean state job lot lol

I've been intrigued and burned by so many von trier movies that I've just given up

i wonder if on his deathbed von trier will reveal that his entire output was designed to treat the viewer like one of the abused women in his shitty films. always going back for more, he says.

loool @ lamp

happy go lucky just snuck onto my ballot - pretty good one imo

Thought his three '00s features were OK to good, but Leigh's lost a step. Driving instructor was best HGL character, but then he had to go and ruin him w/ bathos at the end.

the words "yeah you like that doncha" should flash on the screen at the end of every von trier movie

Yay for "Happy Go Lucky" - I would've voted for that had I got around to voting.

Maybe I should watch Happy Go Lucky tonight, it's in the have-but-not-seen category for me.

flamenco instructor was even better IMO xxp

EN>RAH>HA
EN>RAH>HA
EN>RAH>HA

just a suggestion omar but maybe post 10 films a day? give ppl some time to marinate and discuss

dogville's good, but too long. and nk looks fine.

Gah, Dogville far too fucking low!

the words "yeah you like that doncha" should flash on the screen at the end of every von trier movie

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

Also, the bar is very high for vote/point totals required to get on the list! Good job!

20 a day!

Eddie Marsan was great in HGL. It also made me appreciate him more in Miami Vice. 'it could come back on me baby!'

just a suggestion omar but maybe post 10 films a day? give ppl some time to marinate and discuss

can you torrent a pirated version of the lot for those of us who can't wait for the release date?

These 4 are all rather sadistic experiences, but two of them are good.

Eddie Marsan is a good John Houseman in Me and Orson Welles

o god I can't wait till the kill bills show up

Eddie Marsan was great in HGL. It also made me appreciate him more in Miami Vice. 'it could come back on me baby!'

― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:27 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

omg same guy mind blown *_*

10 a day would give the GMT and later people a better chance to take part in the discussion

would be more epic that way too

every time I think of first QT appearance I picture morbz as boiling tea kettle with cork in spout

A watched Morbs never boils.

Actually, that's the least true thing I've ever written.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/hifidelity.jpg

A lot of people I know saw the film after reading the book, and complained that they'd niced up Rob too much. But seeing it a second time, he is a complete bastard at times in the film, it's just that he's played by John Cusack, and everyone loves John Cusack.

― Andrew Farrell

High Fidelity
Stephen Frears
2000
United States
(214 points, 10 votes)

if the ilx api wasnt so buggy omar could schedule the results from his dedicated apple brand ipad revolutionary tablet consumer device app

uh Edw, I know it's ILX.

honestly most comments on this film were complaints about how it wasn't like a real record store and the girls were unrealistic w/r/t hooking up with a record store owner.

That's the first kinda lame movie on this list, imo.

Maybe it's because I can only remember Tim Robbins' hair in it, tho.

Impossible for a movie about a record store to not show up on the ILX list. Glad it was as low as it is.

i think i'll reveal 15 films per day (6 days for 11-90) and then the top 10 on the last day.

solid

Kinda loved HiFid but didn't come close to making my 40. Best movie on list so far tho.

would like to see it again, but at the time i was working in a record store and the Beta Band bit was OTM.

Also: the first of the bromantic comedies?

i fucking loathe john cusack

morbs otm

hf was kinda lame but brought the lolz iirc

honestly most comments on this film were complaints about how it wasn't like a real record store and the girls were unrealistic w/r/t hooking up with a record store owner.

― ('_') (omar little), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:33 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha great job everyone

what happened to Todd Louiso? v funny.

argh high fidelity no

this countdown is worth it to see what Morbs thinks about films. I would have assumed he hated High Fidelity.

Todd Louiso directed a movie called Love Liza in my hometown. But that was like 2003.

xxxxpost Yeah, much better comment than the comments would've been.

Cusack's monologues far superior to the ones in American Psycho fwiw

no

#94 American Psycho
Mary Harron
2000
Canada
(215 points, 11 votes)

Gukbe, my crush on prime-era Cusack is well-documented, and this was pretty much the end of it.

I saw Todd Louiso recently on CSI or NCIS or one of those procedural shows that's not Law & Order. Looks exactly the same 10 years on.

(I mean, all the shit JC has done since, Ice Harvest excepted) xp

xpost That's the hidden blessing of premature baldness.

yeah, u rong andrew farrell, cusack blows

eric otm

bad bad bad list

i met todd louiso at a wedding

wow. I knew cusack had a bad decade, but I didn't realize just how bad until I looked at the IMDB list. Putting them all in a row like that really hurts.

did he marry sara gilbert??? xpost

oh no wait

sara gilbert was not in attendance iirc

Todd Louiso is in an upcoming movie penned by ILX's own Shakey Mo Collier:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1509787/

Eric seeing a comedy about indie-rock geeks in which Jack Black eviscerates a guy shopping for a Stevie Wonder record is blowin' my mind

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/capturingfriedmans.jpg

I just watched it yesterday. I wonder how many "victims" turned down the interview requests. It's hard to feel like you are getting all sides of the story until you hear from more of them. The most damning thing towards the police seemed to be the coerced testimonials of the victims. The most damning thing towards the Friedmans, and what convinced me of their guilt, was what their lawyer had to say.

I also felt like the bond between the brothers and their father, their relationship, was obviously strong but seemed to require or only exist in a superficial form. See: their constant need to be performing while being recorded on tape and film. Were I to be all Freudian in examining their possible dysfunction, they seem to put up quite a front of happiness i.e. their need to perform really magnifies the tip of the ice-berg. Makes you think they could very easily absorb lies into their family and continue functioning/performing, and that perhaps they try so hard to have fun because were they to stop making silly jokes for 5 minutes, the ensuing silence would be horrible.

― bnw (bnw)

I slightly resent the film putting me in the position of viewer/juror because the information presented to me was inadequate to make me feel confident in any kind of decision I made about the guys' guilt - the heavy bias on all sides means you can't trust anyone's story completely (or at all). I'm wrestling with whether a responsible film maker leaves a case like that as open as he did, or if he should have helped viewers to come to a decision. I just feel like something's been left out and wonder if he deliberately interviewed victims or 'victims' who were a bit nutty to up the entertainment and/or intrigue.

― Madchen (Madchen)

Capturing the Friedmans
Andrew Jarecki
2003
United States
(215 points, 13 votes, 1 first place)

Yay, I'm glad Happy-Go-Lucky made it! It was my #2 vote. My comment up there is a bit one-sided, it's not a total anti-cynic manifesto (the Eddie Marsan character being one of the biggest reasons for that), but I can't imagine a cynic liking it. I had to put it at number #2, as I can't remember ever seeing a movie that was so perfectly suited for a person like me. It's optimistic and full of joie de vivre, yet it never feels dishonest or sugar-coated. And I think even the viewers who might disagree with the message would agree that Sally Hawkins as Poppy is incredible in it, one of the performances of the decade.

fantastic! should have been higher, but im just happy to see it place xpost

lol @ jaymc

high fidelity is fun the first time around but mostly unwatchable after that.

high fidelity the movie is way better than the shitty book

calling: apichatpong, 2 lynchs and coens in top 10

Eric seeing a comedy about indie-rock geeks in which Jack Black eviscerates a guy shopping for a Stevie Wonder record is blowin' my mind

Not "a Stevie Wonder record." "I Just Called To Say I Love You."

optimistic with respect to Apichatpong, I think xp

tuomas i know we already had this discussion and it is reprinted upthread but i really didnt see the film as an endorsement of poppys worldview - it wasnt any sort of manifesto - it was however a story w/some v well rendered characters

If you treat High Fidelity (the book) and High Fidelity (the film) as entirely separate entities, one doesn't color the other. It took me a while to get to that place, though.

Yeah, I see Tropical Malady landing somewhere in the 70s, maybe, and that's it.

high fidelity the movie is way better than the shitty book

― max, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 6:48 PM (1 minute ago)

don't see apichatpong making the top 10

xpsssss

I also own but have never watched dogville, bought DVD for I also own but have never watched dogville, bought DVD for $2 at ocean state job lot lol
lol @ job lot! i never thought to look at dvds (but would not want to own von trier film tbh)

don't see apichatpong making the top 100

capturing the friedmans, major bummer

don't see apichatpong

srsly the lowest polled got 204 points brah

two of his film will make the top 100 but won't place highly.

i'm guessing

tuomas i know we already had this discussion and it is reprinted upthread but i really didnt see the film as an endorsement of poppys worldview - it wasnt any sort of manifesto - it was however a story w/some v well rendered characters

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tuomas sees every movie as either for or against something or another

guys i see apichatpong as getting all three top spots

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/napoleon-dynamite-8-1.jpg

I checked it out last night with some friends and thought it was pretty great. I was a little confused about how to take it since despite it being hilarious, the characters are pretty one dimensional and basically wear the same expressions on their faces for the entire movie. You can also tell the movie was made by a bunch of kids from byu because there was no swearing, no sex humor, no raunch.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins)

No wonder Fox Pictures snapped this Sundance crowd-pleaser up!

'Napoleon Dynamite' is a hysterical comedy about and awkward teen growing up in Idaho. With a chatroom-addicted older brother, a dune buggying grandmother, an uncle trying to recapture his past, a Mexico-born new (and only) best friend Pedro, and a llama, first-time director/writer Jared Hess has created a gem!

Did I forget to mention a great 80s soundtrack featuring Alphaville and When In Rome? Don't miss this film if you enjoy offbeat, quirky comedies... And don't forget to Vote For Pedro.

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry)

#94
Napoleon Dynamite
Jared Hess
2004
United States
(215.5 points, 10 votes)

Friedmans is one of many I mean to rescr**n someday. The compulsive self-documenting was amazing.

nappy dynamite? fuk u ilx

don't see apichatpong

You meant this as a command, right ice?

haha that deangulberry quote.

awful, awful, awful film btw.

given the best years of my life to this shitheap and it votes napoleon dynamite the xth best film of the aughts.

dean gulberry was so effusive in his praise of napoleon dynamite

Plz, let Miami Vice creep up into the top 20 to make up for some of these low-ranking choices.

Fuck Napoleon Dynamite!

tuomas i know we already had this discussion and it is reprinted upthread but i really didnt see the film as an endorsement of poppys worldview - it wasnt any sort of manifesto - it was however a story w/some v well rendered characters

― ice cr?m, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tuomas sees every movie as either for or against something or another

in this case he's right

don't see apichatpong

You meant this as a command, right ice?

― queen frostine (Eric H.), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:58 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah yall better heed me

I tried watching Happy-Go-Lucky with two different friends on separate occasions. Both times we had to stop the movie after 20-30 minutes because they found the lead character so repellant. I still haven't seen the whole thing...must give it a chance

xpost Where were you when I needed you last 2004?

It's hard to believe there are more wretched wastes of celluloid than ND to come

Both times we had to stop the movie after 20-30 minutes because they found the lead character so repellant.

What I like about HGL even more now after reading some of these reactions is how many people react to Poppy as though she actually just interacted with them in some form.

a day late and a baht short once again xp

And I think even the viewers who might disagree with the message would agree that Sally Hawkins as Poppy is incredible in it, one of the performances of the decade.

I agree that Hawkins was the best perf in the movie. The movie maybe doesn't explicitly advocate her brand of optimism, but it at least portrays it in a favorable light. A great accomplishment of the movie is that her resolute chirpy cheerfulness is shown to be neither shallow, false nor air-headed. Over the course of the movie, as we see Hawkins' character deal with various difficult situations, we begin to see it increasingly as a wise and almost heroic choice.

tuomas i know we already had this discussion and it is reprinted upthread but i really didnt see the film as an endorsement of poppys worldview - it wasnt any sort of manifesto - it was however a story w/some v well rendered characters

I think I said this in the OG thread, but I think the idea that it presents Poppy's lifestyle as perfectly valid way of existing in the world makes it some sort of "endorsement". In a more cynical movie someone so optimistic and naive would eventually be put down in a dramatic way for her foolishness, but the fact this never happens in Happy-Go-Lucky - even though you kinda expect it to happen with the driving instructor - certainly means the movie has a particular message. I don't think the message is "everybody should be this way, why can't the cynics see it?", rather than "this too a valid way of living, even if the cynics disagree".

(many x-posts)

what about 15-15-15-15-15-15-10?

nice weeklong format, 5 days is too short, 10 days is too long?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/sideways-4.jpg

I liked it a lot. Note that I was not a big fan of About Schmidt at all -- I felt like it never found the right tone, that its reliance on such farcical elements (the waterbed, Dermot Mulroney's hair, Kathy Bates's boobs) meant that when it came time to milk the pathos (OMG Jack is so lonely), it didn't feel like it was earned. But Sideways strikes just the right balance between funny and sad/poignant because Giamatti's character is always both at once: what shifts in tone there are never seem abrupt. And some nice subtle choices, indeed. Even when things aren't going smoothly for Giamatti w/r/t Virginia Madsen's character, you always see a connection between the two, something that draws them to each other, that complicates any impulse we may have to think, "har har, wotta loser."

― jaymc (jaymc)

he piled it on a little thick with that whole "wine is a metaphor for life" crap

― s1ocki (slutsky)

But you always tell me that wine is a metaphor for life!

― adam... (nordicskilla)

A movie about wine snobs where wine was talked about the entire time - and it wasn't annoying! That's a feat unto itself. The masterpiece talk is strong, but this was much better than last year's critical darling.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman)

Sideways
Alexander Payne
2004
United States
(216 points, 12 votes)

that's my plan, steve~

Oy.

I question the sanity of anyone who made it all the way through Napoleon Dynamite. The twenty minutes I watched were some of the worst "cinema" (I use the term very, very loosely) I've ever seen.

toumas while i find yr definition of cynicism hopelessly narrow i will concede that point, partially

But yeah, o.nate completely OTM about Poppy.

thread title creeping closer and closer to reality

Oof. Ugh. Gack.

I'll rep for Napoleon Dynamite, but it's the Animal Collective of movies, I'll admit.

I now think of Poppy as the UK equiv of Americans believing in Obamachange despite being smart ppl.

At least Sideways isn't as hateful as About Schmidt. Liked the comedy, knockout woman falling for socially impaired shlub not so much.

My ballot was filled with mainstream stuff, but Sideways and Napoleon Dynamite were nowhere near it. *vomit*

nd is hilar, i didnt come close to voting for it but it brings the lolz i will admit

I see Napolean Dynamite as a kind of cinematic equivalent of the abject art of Mike Kelley, et. al.

god plz don't let this thing get glutted with middlebrow slice-of-life

I'd like to know why people hate Napoleon Dynamite so much. Maybe you all had wonderful adolescences or something?

Although, Paul Giamatti is good to watch in almost anything. xxxxxp

Capturing the Friedmans = best film so far. Does anyone WATCH Napoleon Dynamite anymore?

rescreen

^ just checking, thought this might be a censored word on ILX

I see Napolean Dynamite as a kind of cinematic equivalent of the abject art of Mike Kelley, et. al.

I abject

Napoleon Dynamite is a really mean-spirited film dressed up as a bonkers comedy.

sideways is hilar, i didnt come close to voting for it but it brings the lolz i will admit

I adore The Piano Teacher and thought Dogville was great, so fuck the haters. The former, particularly, is a beautiful, horrible film. I think Andrew L was on the money about capturing that awful loneliness, and Huppert puts in such a good performance there.

"the Animal Collective of movies" - ***** - dog latin

haha napoleon dynamite silent majority

mean-spirited in what way?

xposts

mean-spirited in what way?

it's about ugly people

yay capturing the friedmans

my last minute strategic voting paid off

You people can't vote for one Bob Hope film in the '40s poll, but NapD is hilar

As far as the last two go, I'll cop to liking (or at least laughing at) ND way more than Sideways.

It never gives its oddball characters any dignity, instead it points and laughs at them just like the viewer does. (Not that everyone irl deserves to be given dignity, but why make a movie about those people?)

kids (under 12) i know love napoleon dynamite

lool morbs dont ever change

nappy dynamite? fuk u ilx

― the highest per-vote vag so far (history mayne), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:57 PM (4 minutes ago)

ND I thought was pretty funny in places whilst watching it, but made me feel a bit queasy afterwards. Those who bang on about it being a cult classic and so on are, as usual, more annoying than the actual film.

Dogville just voted worse than ND and Sideways. Starting to wonder how high Marley & Me will place.

napoleon himself is hilarious, the film is only alright

Ugh. Mainstream Oscar-approved indie ages worse than any genre.

I'm way behind because I just now saw this via iPhone, but the party scene in Morvern Callar (set to Aphex Twin) is beautiful and justifies it's placement here.

There were a few moments in ND that I liked, but mostly it just made me furious.

Sideways made me want to drink some wine whilst watching it, that's the best I can say.

I knew lots of people hated ND - and with good reason - but I didn't realise Sideways was particularly divisive. What's to hate?

well see individual lists? i wanna blame someone

makes me think of 30 Rock's 'I'm not racist! Remember that time I asked that black guy if he had seen Sideways?!'

A great accomplishment of the movie is that her resolute chirpy cheerfulness is shown to be neither shallow, false nor air-headed. Over the course of the movie, as we see Hawkins' character deal with various difficult situations, we begin to see it increasingly as a wise and almost heroic choice.

I agree, but I don't think the movie paints her approach to life in an entirely positive light. Though it's surely a useful coping mechanism for Poppy herself, it's not very considerate of those in her life who don't share this perspective. The driving instructor is meant to be an unhappy man full of barely repressed anger and resentfulness, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have blown my top if Poppy, giggling and refusing to take anything seriously, had been my student.

Sideways is a good laugh the first time, kind of embarrassing the second.

10% of voters voted for napolean dynamite, can't see where the crime is here

10% of your friends probably liked it

I knew lots of people hated ND - and with good reason - but I didn't realise Sideways was particularly divisive. What's to hate?

I don't hate it, but Payne has a serious problem with smart women.

Dorian: it's middlebrow Oscar American Indie fare. Toxic to ILX.

Payne's best of the decade was his short in Paris je T'aime.

Why make a movie about any people? I don't think it was really all that cruel. I knew plenty of people like Napoleon in secondary school (I was/am one of them), but I don't see it as mocking or mean spirited at all - I see ND as fairly neutral if not sympathetic towards the aspie protagonists. And wtf, it's a funny film, exemplified by the number of people who endlessly (and annoyingly) came to quote it like they did Monty Python (Rex Quan Do, Vote For Pedro, build her a cake, the melon throwing incident etc).

usually ignore film polls but the apoplexy this one has already inspired makes it all worthwhile

nd wtf, it's a funny film, exemplified by the number of people who endlessly (and annoyingly) came to quote it like they did Monty Python (Rex Quan Do, Vote For Pedro, build her a cake, the melon throwing incident etc).

Lots of people quote dumb shit.

I agree, but I don't think the movie paints her approach to life in an entirely positive light. Though it's surely a useful coping mechanism for Poppy herself, it's not very considerate of those in her life who don't share this perspective. The driving instructor is meant to be an unhappy man full of barely repressed anger and resentfulness, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have blown my top if Poppy, giggling and refusing to take anything seriously, had been my student.

― Hoisin Murphy (jaymc), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 7:14 PM (38 seconds ago)

Likewise the guy in the bookstore at the beginning of the movie. It was an uncomfortable scene. It was almost as if she were trying to shame him for being uninterested in her and uncommunicative.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/malady.jpg

God, his films never fail to put me to sleep. I saw Tropical Malady and Blissfully yours and after an hour or so I was in that weird state where you're half-awake, half-asleep. Which is why I really like his films even though I've never managed to see one till the end. There is such a sense of peacefulness that lulls you.

- Jibe

i was scared that tropical malady was going to be too dreadfully slow and i was kicking myself for missing it in the theatre. but i watched it at home and was riveted.

- a spectator bird

Tropical Malady
Apichatpong Weerasethakul
2004
Thailand
(219 points, 8 votes, 1 first place)

xpost Middlebrow indie has become such an easy target for so many critics - Anthony Lane and Peter Bradshaw, to name just two, love to use it as a punching bag. Most of the time I agree, but it can be done well - it's not de facto A Terrible Thing. Incredibly unfashionable to defend, obviously.

Payne's best of the decade was his short in Paris je T'aime.

So very true.

I adore The Piano Teacher and thought Dogville was great, so fuck the haters. The former, particularly, is a beautiful, horrible film. I think Andrew L was on the money about capturing that awful loneliness, and Huppert puts in such a good performance there.

I voted for Piano Teacher too, I remember really liking it (if "like" is a good word for such a movie) when it came out. I haven't seen it since though, and it's perfectly possible that I would find it less impressive at 30 than at 22, because at at that age I appreciated this sort of "raw" cinema more than I do now. But still, I can't remember any other movie ever leaving me with such a strong, guttural feeling of sadness after I'd seen it, and I think that counts for something. So I had to vote for it.

Morbs about 100xposts Lynn Ramsey scheduled to shoot "We Need to Talk About Kevin" this year with Tilda Swinton, but maybe you knew that.

That was my first-place vote, if memory serves.

At this point, I'm glad it showed up at all.

does this mean Blissfully Yours not gonna place?

I loved the first section of Tropical Malady and didn't really understand the second dream-part. It was intriguing, though, enough to make my ballot. One thing that struck me was how loud the outdoor ambient sounds were recorded. It really added something to the atmosphere

i rescreened sideways a few months ago - it's an ok movie that got picked up by some annoying critics as an example of "quality moviemaking for adults" and so got saddled with that bs aura

truly a great film.

I must have been high when I praised Sideways. Horrible movie.

I wish Virginia Madsen's comeback had paid off though.

I know I'm overly antipathetic toward movies that are aggressively OK. I'm over being too concerned by it.

It's the same with people.

I'd be cool with aggressively OK people calling me up more often tbh.

i liked sideways quite a bit and voted for it.

boring movies generally worse than bad movies

xxxp to Eric

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/talktoher.jpg

The last few frames of Talk To Her are heart-stoppingly beautiful.

― N. (nickdastoor)

I'm now in a huge argument with a friend about this film (saw last night). I'm frankly appalled by the rape and the way the film sets up the rapist as a person to sympathize with. Despite the otherwise stunning quality of the film and performances, I had a hard time dealing with the horror of the act in question (and I'm usually pretty relative about morality).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi)

A. is an amazing filmmaker, but one item on his agenda--always--(like John Waters) is gratuitous shock. Intentional bad taste of the sort that isn't really bad taste at all but is, or would be, clearly destructive to society, if it weren't just a movie. The other aspects of his films, lately, have been so lyrical, and successful on an artistic level, that the films trick people into elevating the shock features to the same level as his more "serious" musings. It's very manipulative. But that's okay for an artist, I think.

― Skottie

Talk To Her
Pedro Almodóvar
2002
Spain
(220 points, 10 votes)

wtf does aggressively OK even mean

Wow, Talk to Her is surprisingly low.

ugh

I like Weerasthakul fine, but couldn't honestly feel higher than 60th-80th for TM. He entrances but I'm still not always sure (or even able to guess) in the service of what.

its weird obama is a matador

sideways/napoleon dynamite showing up is making me worried that u bastards are going to vote little miss sunshine into the top 20 and im going to have a seizure

i think it's 'talk to her' where a hot secretary sez something like i just took a huge dump ~

didnt vote for it, but it's a good movie

i just dislike sideways tho, i fucking hate ND

Spencer Chow otm

Am I gonna regret bookmarking this thread?

Thought silent film sequence was by far best thing in Talk to Her, don't honestly remember much else.

I'm now in a huge argument with a friend about this film (saw last night). I'm frankly appalled by the rape and the way the film sets up the rapist as a person to sympathize with. Despite the otherwise stunning quality of the film and performances, I had a hard time dealing with the horror of the act in question (and I'm usually pretty relative about morality).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi)

This is the main reason I can't really deal with Talk to Her, even though most of it is quite good.

This was the comatose-chick one, right?

I thought Talk to Her was good, though I liked Volver more - I also remember very little about Talk to Her. I also thought Manderlay was better than Dogville.

xp - comatose chick one, yes.

lol this was the line i was thinking of - that its just so throw-off makes me <3 it

(Lest we dwell too long, for instance, on Alicia's shock at finding Benigno in her house, her father's receptionist answers the phone and offers this gem: "Oh, hello, Lola. I've just taken an elephant-sized dump." Cut to the next scene.)

Tropical Malady is new to me, looks interesting

He entrances but I'm still not always sure (or even able to guess) in the service of what.

agree but think that's the strength of it. it's refreshing.

I can't remember anything about Talk to Me either.

i remember it being super overrated at the time, i thought it was so-so

I'm now in a huge argument with a friend about this film (saw last night). I'm frankly appalled by the rape and the way the film sets up the rapist as a person to sympathize with.

See, I disagree. We often confuse "sympathize" with "interested in."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/together-1.jpg

"Together" was so goddamned charming!

― Your body is a spiderland (polyphonic)

Together
Lukas Moodysson
2000
Sweden
(220.5 points, 9 votes, 1 first place)

taking a break for now...

^great screengrab, great movie

Funny -- kid named Tet -- need to see again.

Together is great, yeah! Too bad Moodysson decided he didn't want to do that sort of movies again. Despite the good intentions, Lilya-4-Ever was pretty awful, and from what I've heard his next movie was even worse.

I remember this was really hyped when it came out, but I never got to see it. Anything other than 'charming' or 'great'?

"Together" is on Watch Instantly for Netflix folks who haven't seen it, btw.

^yes, on my list

Glad to see Capturing the Friedmans placed as it was my #1. IMO the DVD of this one is essential, as all the many, many extras just escalate the bafflement. Of course it bears noting that I am obsessed w/the kind of stuff in the extras, such as transcripts of really poorly done, exploitative police interviews w/kids that go on for hours. I mean if they ever made a docu abt the McMartin preschool trial, my head would probably explode.

Everyone I've ever tried to play this for has fallen asleep tho.

Lilya 4-Ever wasn't too bad aside from the ending, but as soon as I sent my ballot I really regretted giving it the two points that I did. That ending killed the movie for me.

xxxpost

Together is ranked exactly right. I liked it a lot but always forget I saw it.

hmm let's see. of the ones so far i think dogville is the only one i voted for. (and it's great, u r all crazy.) i like tropical malady but it's my 3rd-favorite joe film so didn't make the cut. i think together was on my extended shortlist. the piano teacher made me want to punch michael haneke, even though isabelle huppert really is great in it.

It's about a 70s Swedish housewife getting fed up with his husband and moving to a leftist/hippie commune with his kids. It gives a somewhat bemused but alway sympathetic portrait of the sort of people who lived in communes during the 70s.

(x-post to Emily)

i thought 'together' was brilliant how dense it was in depth and # of characters for a 90 min film

also, you know, it may just be the little dutch kids aspect of it, but it reminded me a lot of the first half of 'fanny & alexander'

ah i guess i should say scandanavian look then

Moodysson is one of only three filmmakers who appeared on my ballot more than once.

the problem for me with Dogville was that it was so theoretical, it hardly seemed to be there at all as an experience

Yeah, I like how it's never "LOL hippies", but it doesn't present the commune as a hippie utopia either. Having hung out with 90s/00s versions of these sort of people, the way Together presented them seemed pretty spot-on. And the overall positive message of communality is certainly very nice.

(xxx-post)

it was there, like a teeth-cleaning. xxp

lol

i didn't vote for together (only voted for 28 films) but i probably should have, it's great.

And the overall positive message of communality is certainly very nice.

Really? this wasn't my take. Part of the film's slyness is the implication that this community was a collection of atomized humans who only made sense to each other when they were fucking or in conflict with someone else.

I agree with everything Abbott said about CTF. I was just spellbound for the whole movie.

i think it's both.

xpost

yeah, I think the communality isn't objectively judged except it's sort of good that these folks aren't bothering everybody else (kinda like the record store in High Fidelity).

don't agree w/ that

yeah Friedmans is super-compelling. im pleased by these first ten!

Plus, these folks smell.

xpost

The bleakness of Lilya underscores why Together manages to be so warm and charming without being cutesy and manipulative. He's no naif - he has genuine affection for idealism because he knows what it's up against, and at the same time he can still take the piss very shrewdly.

I voted for this, Friedmans and Sideways so I'm happy so far.

again like rec store (sorry)

xp

I didn't even realise Together was 2000s? Guess I missed it in the noms list. Would probably have crept into my 40. I rescreened it maybe 18 months ago. Solid.

I tried watching Happy-Go-Lucky with two different friends on separate occasions. Both times we had to stop the movie after 20-30 minutes because they found the lead character so repellant. I still haven't seen the whole thing...must give it a chance

itt ppl who are dead inside

i wouldnt read happy-go-lucky as an endorsement - theres some cruelty in her naiveté - but poppy's worldview is p seductive. really liked that movie tho

also lots of shitty lame movies but nothing so far is worse than dogville - truly monstrous if u liked that movie u r a terrible person

No you are not.

why "r u" terrible person for liking Dogville, Lamp? Please answer in a complete sentence with proper English spelling and grammar for extra credit - I know you're capable of it.

the only possible reason i can think for people hating dogville so much is some kind of basic misunderstanding of the movie. (nb: i understand not liking it, but people talk about it like it's some immoral or amoral or life-hating force, which is sort of perversely rong.)

lamp otm

Dogville is hated by me not just because it is a pile of wank, but because it is a 3 hour pile of wank.

is it ok if i hate dancer in the dark?

I vowed never too see any Lars von Trier movie again after that emotional torture porn extravaganza Dancer in the Dark, but several of my friends have told me I should see Dogville. I'm still not sure though...

Lol, xpost!

It's a trap!

von trier just strikes me as one of those trolls who is clever but not very clever, more momus than cankles for instance

I can see extreme reactions to DitD and Dogville following naturally.

I'm assuming the "terrible person" line is a joke, one I'd reserve for Gaspar Noe fans.

I absolutely do not agree with the end conclusions NK's character makes in Dogville, and I think Lars Von Trier is irredeemable as a human being, but the whole thing radiates a glowing rongness I imagine some others (obviously terrible people) get from Haneke.

Also, Von Trier is usually aware of its own ridiculousness.

i was just gonna say that's how i feel abt haneke

xpost And if not, the payoff is the greatest closing credits sequence of. all. time.

o noes im a terrible person

Liked the comedy, knockout woman falling for socially impaired shlub not so much.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 7:06 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

pretty much what st peter said to me at the gates

i didn't vote so i have no right to complain but Sideways, guys?

Also, Von Trier is usually aware of its own ridiculousness.

― queen frostine (Eric H.), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:18 PM (43 seconds ago)

Exactly - a lot of it has to do with challenging the audience, and what the audience wants and expects from film - denying them the conventional pleasures. I actually think Von Trier is very clever, in that you can appreciate/read his films on different levels, and there are interesting formal/structural parallels with the theme and narrative - more so than Haneke, who I feel is a bit more heavy-handed.

over on the ilm tracks poll are people rolling their eyes and sighing loudly about every single entry?

Uh, yes?

ok, what were the photos behind the end-credits of Dogville? All I remember is "Young Americans."

My "anti-American" bonafides are fairly strong, but I don't need some shallow, glib Danish brat to ilm a sub-Brechtian, ugly pageant about it. (how about denying us ANY pleasures?)

I dunno, Cache didn't feel nearly as heavy-handed to me as Dogville

to film, lol

have you never read ilm before, slocki?

I absolutely do not agree with the end conclusions NK's character makes in Dogville

neither does von trier, which is where i think people get that movie backward.

pretty sure the photos were Walker Evans/Dorothea Lange WPA type photos from the Depression

i mean endless carping is wearying but i'll take the good doctor over, say, the lex any day because at least he attempts to explain what's irritated and way.

Exactly - a lot of it has to do with challenging the audience, and what the audience wants and expects from film - denying them the conventional pleasures. I actually think Von Trier is very clever, in that you can appreciate/read his films on different levels, and there are interesting formal/structural parallels with the theme and narrative - more so than Haneke, who I feel is a bit more heavy-handed.

This sounds wrong to me. I think Haneke is much more about denying the audience conventional pleasures (this is the whole point of Funny Games, isn't it?), whereas the von Trier movies I've seen are clearly more conventional and heavy-handed. DitD has all the conventional pleasures of a weepie movie, only taken to an (irritating) extreme. And I know a lot of people who like it a lot exactly because of that cathartic pleasure, even though it's built on nothing but catharsis itself. Whereas Haneke certainly avoids providing the viewer such an easy catharsis.

what's irritated and way is the new "dewey cheatham and howe"

von trier just strikes me as one of those trolls who is clever but not very clever, more momus than cankles for instance

― caek, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 3:16 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lool

Middlebrow indie has become such an easy target for so many critics - Anthony Lane and Peter Bradshaw, to name just two, love to use it as a punching bag. Most of the time I agree, but it can be done well - it's not de facto A Terrible Thing. Incredibly unfashionable to defend, obviously.

― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 7:19 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah but they're both feebs, and p-brads especially gets things REALLY wrong when he tries to go lowbrow. it's a punchbag for a reason tho.

'together' is moodysson's bestest film.

a lot of it has to do with challenging the audience, and what the audience wants and expects from film - denying them the conventional pleasures. I actually think Von Trier is very clever, in that you can appreciate/read his films on different levels, and there are interesting formal/structural parallels with the theme and narrative - more so than Haneke, who I feel is a bit more heavy-handed.

― sarahel, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 8:22 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

er, what? LVT viewers are not "challenged" in the least: they get exactly what they pay for, ie a woman slicing her clit or what-have-you. they don't WANT conventional pleasures, they want unconventional ones, because they are highly educated, sensitive people. haneke is more heavy-handed but they're both useless.

a lot of it has to do with challenging the audience, and what the audience wants and expects from film - denying them the conventional pleasures.

come on von trier gives his audience the greatest and most conventional pleasure of all - feeling superior

haneke has crazy skills, deployed in the service of utter obnoxiousness

<3 him btw

The model for yr well-crafted posts!

jeez, feel so conflicted when nrq is OTM.

lol

come on von trier gives his audience the greatest and most conventional pleasure of all - feeling superior

― Lamp, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:31 PM (1 minute ago)

-- Do you feel superior when you see Von Trier films? I don't. I feel like I'm implicated in them - that's part of what I meant by challenging the audience.

xp Tuomas - Dancer in the Dark is the one Von Trier film I disliked.

loved dancer in the dark, courteney cox is v cute in that

lol

Okay, like I said I've refused to watch any von Trier movies after DitD, but this "suffering women" trilogy (Breaking the Waves, Idiots, Dancer in the Dark) is certainly much more about conventional pleasures than any Haneke movie I've seen. Like I said, they're all about catharsis, which is as conventional as a cinematic pleasure can be, and Haneke certainly doesn't want to provide the audience anything like that.

(x-post to Sarah)

Do you feel superior when you see Von Trier films? I don't. I feel like I'm implicated in them - that's part of what I meant by challenging the audience.

lol sux 2 be u. i know you're *supposed to be* implicated, because that's what brechtian dramturgy is *supposed* to do. but does it? not ime.

feel so conflicted when tuomas is otm.

picking it up again, taking it down to #86 and then continuing with 85-71 tomorrow...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/lives-1.jpg

I wasn't really that fussed about it until the epilogue section, and then I found it very affecting. But the final scene went over my schmaltz limits, yes.

Before all that, there was a good sense of claustrophobic paranoia evoked, I guess, and it did sort of make me see how a man could get into the mindset of justifying torture to himself, but other than that, yes, the main body of the film I found a bit disappointing, given the hype.

― Alba

I think a bigger influence on his change of heart was supposed to be him realising that his colleagues were corrupt. He was an idealist who believed in the communist project and had come to justify brutality in its defence. When he saw others being cynical andd using the party system for personal gain, the whole thing started to unravel for him, and that allowed him to start to see his victims as real humans rather than counter-revolutionaries.

― Alba

Sure, I think that's definitely true - maybe my issue was more that I was never truly convinced of Spacey's absolute faith in the Stasi project. I wanted to understand why this guy had total faith in the system that was keeping him living in a shitty apartment, eating gnarly frozen dinners, and ordering mega-boobed prostitutes.

― Ben Boyerrr

i thought this was pretty great.

my favorite detail was the naievete of the GDR writers when they got serious about being defiant -- it was the editor from the West that knew more about what their government can do and will do and is doing.

― gff

#89

The Lives of Others
Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck
2006
Germany
(221 points, 12 votes, 1 first place)

suckd fat commie dik

Watching vt films, I get the impression I'm watching someone who thinks he's clever by being outrageous and saying nothing at all. "look at these half-assed ideas I've got aren't they challenging and provocative? Jokes bruv I didn't really mean any of it or did I?" thanks for wasting my time, asswipe.

TLoO maybe the worst yet.

i hope morbs is going to do a worst 10 of these 100

The Lives of Others is one of my favorites - it wasn't my #1 pick - the people that disliked it, why do you think it's awful?

xpost I can see how Haneke tries (and fails) to implicate bourgeois viewers in Cache but I can't see how Von Trier's doing that. BTW and DID are just absurd, sadistic rituals which leave me completely estranged. Haven't seen Dogville though, so maybe he gets implicatin' there, but I can't imagine ever wanting to see one of his movies again.

the words "yeah you like that doncha" should flash on the screen at the end of every von trier movie

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^ I'm gonna make this every 10th post in the thread if you ppl don't stop talking about lvt

Lives is sentimental twaddle, but i'm sure the film's thread has my contemporary thoughts.

my contemporary thoughts by dr morbius

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_370/1235758790ZmJX78.jpg

it's the sequel to my antediluvian thoughts

lol

lives was utterly ponderous, leaned heavy on the lol art house tactic of using inert pacing and gloomy lighting as a proxy for gravitas

Not seen Lives. Probably should, but foreign film oscars tend to be red flags.

Breaking the Waves (and probably Dancer in the Dark - which I feel asleep halfway through, so I won't pretend that I really "saw" it) - I read in relation to traditional melodrama, as well as all sorts of films where you sit in the comfort of the theater or your home and watch people suffer. It's just taken to extremes. The Idiots is less about suffering, and more about performance and in a sense, avant-garde-ness and art. But I could be finding things in these films that are idiosyncratic and weird.

"a bit schmaltzy," you bet.

If only more playwrights and actresses had introduced Stasi loners to Brecht, the Wall woulda been down in 1970.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:48 AM (1 year ago

Breaking the Waves (and probably Dancer in the Dark - which I feel asleep halfway through, so I won't pretend that I really "saw" it) - I read in relation to traditional melodrama, as well as all sorts of films where you sit in the comfort of the theater or your home and watch people suffer. It's just taken to extremes. The Idiots is less about suffering, and more about performance and in a sense, avant-garde-ness and art. But I could be finding things in these films that are idiosyncratic and weird.

― sarahel, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 8:56 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark

no, that's about right... they are like psychologically implausible and unpleasant-to-watch melodramas. i don't know why you think people watch melodramas, but im p sure it wasn't to gloat. i think 'the idiots' is better than those films but basically feh.

like this Alfred post:

Then there's also this. Please ignore that it was posted on the fucking Corner.

1. The fundamental element of the plot, the Stasi officer Wiesler helping Dreymann, is such utter nonsense that it ruins the whole movie. It would never happen that some one with over 20 years of continuous indoctrination by the Stasi would help a mortal enemy of the State (and by Stasi definition, that's what Dreymann was). Even if Wiesler could have somehow come to see Dreymann as something other than an enemy, he still would have done what the Stasi expected, because he (Wiesler) would always have been watched and his work constantly checked.

2. That Dreymann could think he was not being observed and bugged is also utter nonsense. This guy was a top playwright who associated with the highest cultural officials and he thought he was not of interest to the State !?!? My wife was continuously watched and bugged simply because she had foreign diplomats as patients. Being watched and bugged was something every East German assumed was part of their life.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, April 27, 2007 1:42 PM (2 years ago)

btw i just checked out the ILM thread and uh... never mind

lol

although i mean realistically not sure what u wanted this thread to be if its not a discussion of pros and cons?

also lives of others was deeply boring and proud of itself

bring on the statham

i don't know why you think people watch melodramas, but im p sure it wasn't to gloat.

- Not on a conscious level, no, but with some there is a sense of superiority in the relationship between audience and character/scenario. Melodrama provides opportunities for sympathy/empathy (among other things) - and one could argue that the "Oh, poor thing!" response from the viewer is in a sense condescending and comes from a superior position.

i think 'the idiots' is better than those films but basically feh.

The Idiots I really like - I prefer Von Trier movies where he's examining institutions or ideas about art, performance, film than his takes on gender dynamics.

although i mean realistically not sure what u wanted this thread to be if its not a discussion of pros and cons?

― Lamp, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 4:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ya i guess i find it more enjoyable to read why people like stuff than the other way around, but i am just as guilty as anybody else of this

i guess i just find the whole "i hate this! i hate this! i hate this!" vibe a little wearying tbh

*lies down on couch with damp washcloth over eyes*

im looking forward to keepin it pos if some of the stuff i voted for arrives, but so far i either didnt like this stuff or haven't seen it, with the exception of capturing the friedmans, but idk how to verbalize why its as good as it is.

Thought this was going to be about shitting on everyone's taste my bad.

ya i guess im just tired of complaining about most of these movies

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/memoriesmurderdrainage.jpg

memories of murder is astonishing. it veers between unbearably intense drama and disturbingly dark humor--actually it doesn't really "veer between," it sort of stays in both registers at once.

- Amateur(ist)

Memories of Murder (great film about South Korea's first serial killer with a v moving ending)

- xyzzzz

Just finished watching Memories of Murder. It owns my soul.

- jeffrey

#88

Memories of Murder
Bong Joon-Ho
2003
South Korea
222 points, 10 votes

discussion of pros and cons >>>>>>> ballot discussion >>>>>>> fantasy football

Not on a conscious level, no, but with some there is a sense of superiority in the relationship between audience and character/scenario. Melodrama provides opportunities for sympathy/empathy (among other things) - and one could argue that the "Oh, poor thing!" response from the viewer is in a sense condescending and comes from a superior position.

mm. this is actually the critics/theorists displaying *their* superiority to the target audience of melodramas. when they say "oh, poor thing", it's because they project themselves into the film and because they relate to it. i don't see why you'd think they imagine themselves to be superior.

it's not how i watch films anyway. what's wrong with sympathy/empathy?

(i'm aware this is linked to a marxist analysis (of sorts) but it's now just a rote and condescending routine -- no-one who thinks this is setting out to, you know, "change society", as the 70s film theorists reckoned they were.)

hey when marebito makes the top five i will write a short form essay on its merits, pinky swear

xxxpost ok hahaha that gives me some hope actually

we are keeping it pos, ie I can't believe you ppl voted for that piece of shit!

hahaha

liked Memories at the time, but now memory fails me

was memories of murder your #1 omar? it really is fantastic

alfred has a wife?

i don't see why you'd think they imagine themselves to be superior. it's not how i watch films anyway. what's wrong with sympathy/empathy?

Nothing - and I tend to project myself into films and try to relate them as well. But, as someone who studied film academically, I'm also conscious of watching a constructed product and issues of manipulation through the form.

The Lives of Others is not really very interesting to me, but I guess I can see how it ends up on a list like this. Not so with Sideways. I mean, do you all also listen to Spyro Gyra all the time?

i didnt actually vote for Mem of Murder, but it totally deserves a spot and is a pretty incredible movie throughout

not my #1 but way up there for me

The Lives of Others is not really very interesting to me, but I guess I can see how it ends up on a list like this. Not so with Sideways. I mean, do you all also listen to Spyro Gyra all the time?

― queen frostine (Eric H.), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:14 PM (17 seconds ago)

I liked The Lives of Others because of the main character, and his existential drama (or lack thereof) - I also liked watching it and comparing it to The Conversation. Sideways, I didn't see, and had no interest in seeing - kinda like how I have no interest in listening to Phish or the Dave Matthews Band.

Alfred was quoting dere

The Lives of Others seemed roughly as dishonest about its political epoch as Mississippi Burning was about its.

sorry for going back to lvt but.. i saw part of 'dancer in the dark' and thought what was going on was.. it started to make sense why people were so awful to poor bjork's character because she was just that clueless and helpless. I mean in a way where characters (esp deneuve) are TRYING to give her advice so that bad things don't happen and she just blows it off. that was my sense of the dynamic, as a viewer, this sort of rage and frustration at watching somebody who does not have to wind up in a bad situation, but wants to act like it's fate and they are helpless, except the whole way they ignored any/all possibility of acting differently! so i wonder if that happens in his other films. i don't wonder enough to be planning to watch them anytime soon though.

been meaning to watch memories of murder 4 eva - hav to do that

memories of murder is astonishing. it veers between unbearably intense drama and disturbingly dark humor--actually it doesn't really "veer between," it sort of stays in both registers at once.

this is my take on korean cinema in general, why I love it so. when it comes to emotional tones, other films seem to pluck out one-note-at-a-time solos while the koreans are blasting out diminished 7 chords.

that was my sense of the dynamic, as a viewer, this sort of rage and frustration at watching somebody who does not have to wind up in a bad situation, but wants to act like it's fate and they are helpless, except the whole way they ignored any/all possibility of acting differently! so i wonder if that happens in his other films.

It does in Zentropa (Europa) and Breaking the Waves, if I remember right.

one of my cineaste claims to fame is seeing dude's debut in a cinema the year it came out. it's a comedy about disgusting savages in the original sense of the phrase.

i'm excited to see memories of a murder soon as part of BAM's Bong Joon-Ho series. Loved the Host.

i thought the lives of others had really amazing production design. that's stuck with me.

still choice for memories of murder A++++ btw omar

btw

dudes

bong's new one, MOTHER, is sick

naked running biker in Sideways was kinda awesome, but Payne has never topped Citizen Ruth.

you know what, I liked zentropa but guy has done so much crap since then I kinda forget about it

also I <3 citizen ruth but election is one of the GOAT so

this is my take on korean cinema in general, why I love it so. when it comes to emotional tones, other films seem to pluck out one-note-at-a-time solos while the koreans are blasting out diminished 7 chords.

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 4:20 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

important post^^

bong's new one, MOTHER, is sick

yeah I've slept on getting that, really need to hop on it

Not so with Sideways. I mean, do you all also listen to Spyro Gyra all the time?

Close: Steely Dan.

Very true. I can't imagine any other country producing a movie like Attack the Gas Station!, which has pretty much every emotional register a movie can have all put together.

(xx-post)

you know what, I liked zentropa but guy has done so much crap since then I kinda forget about it

― 鬼の手 (Edward III), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:22 PM (1 minute ago)

i was about to make exactly this same post, except i just conveniently forget that he did it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/minority_report26.jpg

I don't understand the adulation for Minority Report. I liked the first half fine (save for SS's fucking horrible jokes) but this movie really couldn't have gone more downhill. Terrible, terrible "reveal" ending, and the less said about that last shot the better. (Also I don't buy that MI is in any way intriguingly "dark").

- s1ocki

Sci-fi with effects, but totally character-driven, good acting (yes even from Cruise and Ferrell), great directing, etc. etc.

- Aaron W

you gotta watch spielberg movies as, you know, movies. you will see some amazing shit in a spielberg movie. (so many great shots in Minority Report, for instance)

- ryan

#87

Minority Report
Steven Spielberg
2002
United States
(225.5 points, 14 votes)

you can't see what the top 10 ilm singles are w/out loading all their wankin' JUST FROM TODAY.

the only wacky Korean movie I much liked was Save the Green Planet!

xpost to sarahel re: lvt - ok i was beginning to suspect that. i know he's been accused of misogyny and... i read a lot about 'dancer in the dark' and expected to view it and just be feeling sorry for poor selma the whole time. but imho it's more interesting than that - it's like why do some people get treated badly and walked over? part of it is, sometimes, they throw their hands up and let it happen, and you start to feel like you may as well go with the crowd in treating them like a doormat because it seems that is how they prefer to live life. so i give credit for being interesting that way but it is very difficult for me to watch, there are other films i'd rather spend time on.

minority report is aight but c'mon.

probably my least favorite S.S. film of the decade 'cept for Indy IV. Still, only the last 20 mins flat-out suck.

also Farrell looked daaaaaamn fine.

yay morbs, save the green planet is fantastic!

xpost ok wait if that means you liked AI more i might have to rescind my hooray

RE: Sideways

Sadly enough, I think identified w/Giamatti's character at the time. I was a lonely shlub still processing a lot of failed relationships from my twenties and I guess I wanted to buy into the Madsen fantasy. Totally get why a lot of you hate it though. I need to re-watch this, but I'm afraid it will be an embarrassing experience.

The wallet stealing scene was pretty classic, iirc.

daria - yeah, I think lvt is just a general misanthropist - he tends to make all his protagonists suffer, whether male or female - Breaking the Waves was very difficult to watch, and I can't honestly say that I liked it. I'm not sure whether it's because I'm female, or because of societal gender inequity or conventions in depictions of women in film, but von trier's films featuring a suffering male protagonist are easier for me to watch.

part of the accusations of lvt/misogyny wrt ditd prob come from the fact that bjork spent half of the interviews about the film talking about how brutalized and beat down she was by him during the making of the movie.

but imho it's more interesting than that - it's like why do some people get treated badly and walked over? part of it is, sometimes, they throw their hands up and let it happen, and you start to feel like you may as well go with the crowd in treating them like a doormat because it seems that is how they prefer to live life.

I'm not sure if this is how von Trier intended it to be; it certainly isn't the way people I know who like the film saw it. Their reaction was "Oh, poor Selma!", and that's about it. It's even clearer in Breaking the Waves (which is quite similar to DitD) that von Trier thinks there's something noble in all this female suffering, so I don't really think his point is to dissect professional victims.

Haha, Steely Dan is more like Von Trier than Sideways is like Spyro Gyra!

the production design on both minority report and AI are rabishing. minority report platform game cgi jump sequence aside, i think they are two of the prettiest, most visually interesting recent studio films.

also Farrell looked daaaaaamn fine.

i think CF rates as my movie star of the decade: miami vice, the new world, in bruges. untouchable really.

It's even clearer in Breaking the Waves (which is quite similar to DitD) that von Trier thinks there's something noble in all this female suffering, so I don't really think his point is to dissect professional victims.

Actually, I think that is his point - I don't think he really sees nobility in anything.

only if you listen to lyrics?

xxxp

Colin Farrell? Wasn't he in that excruciatingly awful Alexander movie? Or am I confusing him with Will Farrell - or someone else - Alexander should have been a comedy.

How do you explain the ending of BtW then? It's made pretty clear that the protagonist's husband miraculously gets better because of her suffering.

lol @ rabishing

you can't see what the top 10 ilm singles are w/out loading all their wankin' JUST FROM TODAY.

the only wacky Korean movie I much liked was Save the Green Planet!

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:29 PM (6 minutes ago)

The top 3 were Taylor Swift, Bat for Lashes, and Lady Gaga. Let's hope the film poll fares better

The guy who directed Save the Green Planet! hasn't made anything in 7 years either, what's with all this Malick Syndrome?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/etienne_saint/alltherealgirls.jpg

On one hand, I found All the Real Girls to be somewhat uneven. The older characters -- Leland and Elvira -- seem underdeveloped, more like sketches. And though I appreciate Green's impulse toward a loose, documentary style of filmmaking, I think his films could benefit from more judicious editing. There's an early scene with Feng-Shui on Leland's shoulders as they walk silently through a field -- the cut to the scene is oddly abrupt, and the camera lingers on them for way too long. These moments add up.

On the other hand, the movie had a profound impact on me, like almost nothing else I've seen. I dwelled on it all last week, writing about it several times in my journal, and coming to new understandings each time. And I saw it again the other day. I'm still thinking about it.

I think it affected me so strongly because it worked on two levels. As a movie fan, I absolutely love anything that's naturalistic and episodic. I smiled at scenes like the conversation between Noel and Bust-Ass about food expanding in the stomach -- it's such a goofy dialogue, but so right on with its small-talk awkwardness. And, as Green says, moments like these are nothing that a "witty screenwriter" could've come up with, or else it'd feel contrived.

― jaymc (jaymc)

ok, i saw this movie on a complete fluke occurance. i was supposed to see irreversible at the gene siskel, but it was sold out. so my friend and i walked down to the esquire and hit all the real girls. i had never heard of david gordon green but my friend said that his influences were quite impressive. after i got out, alls i could do is say wow. i didnt know what hit me and i couldnt really express it in words.

i never got another chance to see it in the theaters, but it haunted me no other movie has.

― todd swiss

#86

All the Real Girls
David Gordon Green
2003
United States
(224.5 points, 12 votes)

Colin Farrell? Wasn't he in that excruciatingly awful Alexander movie? Or am I confusing him with Will Farrell...

― sarahel, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

But, as someone who studied film academically...

― sarahel, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:14 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark

no offence like, but what the fuck were they teaching you?

Not even Morb. SD's musicality dances around pop conventions just like LVT movies construct their own false fronts and faux catharses.

all the real girls basically sucks but danny mcbride is in it and zooey deschanel is bonertime for reals.

only if you listen to lyrics?

Yeah. I was mostly thinking of Alex in NYC's explicit association of Steely Dan with wine bars (frequented by people wearing corduroy blazers with patches on the elbows).

haha, rabishing = ravishing. i was trying to type quickly to get us off LvT.

don't disagree with nrq re: farrell (ha!). miami vice is going to be top 10 here, i think.

fitting that the first movie in the thread from my ballot is memories of murder

Only two films from the second half of the decade so far.

I'm almost ready to call Miami Vice for #2.

wondering how many more korean films we'll get... besides oldboy and the host

xp history mayne - I graduated in 1996 - before Colin Farrell's started and Will Ferrell's roles consisted of "Construction Worker," "Roommate from Hell #1," "Man at Meeting," and "Young Man."

re LvT, I guess there's only so much faux/false I can take before it seems hateful.

Wanted to like ATRG. It's... committed. D G Green's whelming post-breakthrough stuff even had me re-evaluating George Washington.

that's all for today, see you all here tomorrow......

thanks omar!

re LvT, I guess there's only so much faux/false I can take before it seems hateful.

Yeah, it's a fine line - I can generally appreciate Lars von Trier because there are interesting formal and structural parallels, but Todd Solondz just seems really hateful and too misanthropic/nihilistic.

see, I (generally) feel the oppoaite.

me too, like solondz, can't stand von trier

i don't like either!

solondz isn't completely terrible, lvt is. can live w.o. both.

with solondz I get a sense the director is expressing his own self-loathing in funny/painful ways, von trier is like "I'm zed, you're marsellus wallace, let's do this"

I don't blame omar little for only including the first three paragraphs of my 2004 post on All the Real Girls, but here's the rest:

So I can champion the film in a "more movies like this, please!" way. But it also emotionally devastated me, which I think has to do with the psychological complexity of the characters. You can see how genuinely Paul and Noel love each other, how well they get along -- but they are in totally different places in their lives, and they can't understand how significantly that affects their relationship. The tragedy of their story is that they are the "best boy and girl for each other" at that moment, and that they do still have feelings for each other, despite everything that happens.

Where these two levels come together is in remarkable scenes like the motel room -- from the tension-diffusing pillow fight to Noel's soul-baring story about her scar. If that's not among the most remarkable performances I've seen from an actress, I don't know what is -- in ten minutes, she goes from nervousness (about being there) to playfulness (the pillow fight) to pain (the scar story) and then joyful love (at being able to share it with Paul). She cries and laughs at the same time. She expresses volumes with just the way her mouth moves. She says lines like, "Tip doesn't even know about this" in an off-handed way, as if she just thought to bring it up.

Now, I'll admit to finding parts of the film uniquely resonant because a) their relationship bears similarities to relationships I've had, and so certain scenes were more poignant than they otherwise might be, and b) Noel is totally my kinda gal (particularly since Zooey is so beautiful), and so I felt like I loved her, too. In other words, there's surely a subjective component to my feelings about the movie. Just so you know. But I can defend it all, too."

Solondz is okay. At least his misanthropy is kinda straightforward and heartfelt, whereas von Trier seems to think there's something deeper beneath his. Also, Solondz' gender politics are less dubious.

see, I don't think Solondz is funny - it's just painful - and it's even more painful because it is trying to be funny and hide the self-loathing behind what I see as failed attempts at humor. Von Trier's sadism is more honest.

(xxx-post)

Also, Solondz' gender politics are less dubious.

I wouldn't say that. + his politics on everything else are more risible.

But I like him too, on the whole.

if I have to spend two hours in a dark room with somebody I'm gonna pick george costanza over the BTK killer, even if the BTK killer is more honest about his sadism

I must just have a bottomless reserve of goodwill for mean directors. It's the boring ones I want to murder.

I'd rather watch a movie about the BTK killer than some annoying dude from Seinfeld.

I thought like that when I was younger, but not anymore. It's directors like von Trier who made me realize shock tactics can be way more irritating than subtle annoyingness.

take it to the fetishes thread, sarahel

lol

to recap for all of you reading this thread on your fucking telephone

86. All the Real Girls
87. Minority Report
88. Memories of Murder
89. The Lives of Others
90. Together
91. Talk to Her
92. Tropical Malady
93. Sideways
94. Napoleon Dynamite
95. Capturing the Friedmans
96. High Fidelity
97. Happy-Go-Lucky
98. Dogville
99. The Piano Teacher
100. Movern Callar

boring is awful, i hear you, i'll usually stick it out w/a boring film if it's been appreciated by others & might be worth discussing. they don't mean to be boring, do they? as for some of the mean ones.. i feel like it's a valid response to just walk out/turn the film off, in fact, it might be the best response. such as gaspar noe.

didn't know anything about All The Real Girls, but jaymc's blurb (and the fact that it showed up on this list) makes me want to check it out

just noticing how tight these are points wise. Minority Report and ATRG were on my ballot, though neither were very high up.

i think lvt is pretty uneven (dancer in the dark kind of annoyed me, except for the musical bits) and is undoubtedly full of shit in general and way too in love with his provocateur shtick. but a.) he is also kind of virtuosic, his movies are really inventive visually and technically and i think he's fun to watch on that level, and b.) dogville is just one where i think he pulled it all together, the form suits the content, the tone is right, it's all the most coherent version of his whole coldblooded-humanist thing.

dogville still the only thing on my ballot that's shown. which means the other 39 must all be still to come! (can't wait to see how high princess raccoon places.)

who knows, maybe dogville will redeem lvt for me

cache did for haneke

it will get less tight toward into the top 50. zipf's law.

all the real girls is dull as fuck and badly made.

yeah - only a 20 point difference btw 100 and 86. whats interesting is that most of the films that have placed so far seem to be the result of a bunch of ppl liking them tropical malady (one of the few films w/ a #1 vote so far) had the highest points per vote and that only averages to around a #14 ranking

so yah i think we may see a huge point difference btw the top ten or so and the rest

There's not enough in All the Real Girls and yet there are too many "meaningful" moments.

it does look rabishing though.

there were about sixty films which had a shot at entering the top 100 towards the end there, all it would have taken was a couple of high ballot placements.

I felt pretty close to what Jamyc wrote when I first saw All the Real Girls. Flawed, but full of subjective love because it really hit the right notes with me. I saw it again last year and it doesn't hold up as well. There's lots of awkwardness in his directing and there were a few too many of those 'meaningful' precious moments (that still of the bowling alley being a prime example). But it was still beautifully shot, still oddly moving at times, its heart is in the right place, and the central relationships still works really well.

I rewatched Minority Report a few months back, and it was still pretty thrilling. It looked great and it was a lot of fun. The only thing that was really wrong with the ending was the deus ex-wife, but it was one of the better thrillers I saw.

Yeah, I expect I would not love ATRG as much at 31 as I did at 24, though I will still defend aspects of it, esp. that motel-room scene.

ATRG seems like one of those movies I'd be emotionally affected by, then get angry at because of that, and so I avoid them completely.

i saw minority report in the theater when it came out, and it was a trip, colin farrell was great in it.. i have no recollection of what went on in the movie so i didn't think to vote for it. these days, i really appreciate the craft that goes into making a good thriller, but i didn't pay attention at the time & just saw it as entertaining.

i prefer to look at and listen to Tom Cruise as little as possible - this played a major role in me disliking Minority Report.

mean-spirited in what way?

it's about ugly people

― Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 7:09 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i come back from a nice middle class meal out to see this? would ND be better spirited if it were about pretty and nice people?

on second thoughts don't answer, sure your zings are ready

i found the central story of all the real girls sort of dull, iirc (it's a little hazy). but i really liked the sense of place, the town, the general feel for the lives of those characters -- also things i liked about george washington, which i think is a better movie so i voted for it instead of atrg.

i liked ALRG even moreso when i rescreened it recently. it's not something id vigorously defend cuz it does feel v. subjective and it find the cutesy/emo-ness more grating than endearing than im ok w/ that~

all the side friends are objectively great imo tho...<3 <3 <3 mcbride as bustass & tip, they make for some fantastic scenes

dang should be "if u" find

catching up on some of the earlier virulence it will be interesting to see what ppls lists are once the dust has settled....

or why don't you have an invites only poll?

Minority Report is the only one from my ballot to appear so far. #29 on my ballot, but if it had ended with the scene where the Cruiser is incarcerated in carbon freezing or whatever the hell that was, it would've been higher.
It's a bit messy, looking back on it, though it has a stack of really memorable shots (small things too, but clever, like the umbrellas, and the balloons). A lot of product placement too. A LOT.

I actually watched Minority Report for the product placement.

by poster request:

dear assholes of internet, try to keep it positive and make me want to see things, love, louis

too bad, chew on our hate

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1120519/photo_09_hires.jpg

^like this scene w/ tip drinking 24 oz old styles, callin himself a pussy, and paul ttly taking the piss outta his seriousness is fab

bah

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1120519/photo_09_hires.jpg

The Lives of Others seemed roughly as dishonest about its political epoch as Mississippi Burning was about its.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

do you mean the political epochs in which the films were made? roughly?

lives of others was awarded Most R-U-Kidding Movie of the Decade by me because it was one of these things that like 10 friends all raved about to me -- like really, really loved it -- and i thought it was really some bullshit.

what was bullshit about it?

the east germans don't you know

i'm with you sarahel on the conversation connection fwiw

Is LJ banned again?

At his own request (again), jaymc.

lives of others was pretty stupid but s1ocki otm, it did look rabishing

if yr into that ostalgia thing i mean

weird to see my old login qtd about Lives of Others, of all things. i liked the movie, i enjoyed watching it, insofar as i enjoyed the mechanics of the plot it constructed: who knows what about whom, and when, and why people act on incorrect information, that the audience knows is false -- all that romeo and juliet shit at the end. but yeah it's deeply deeply dishonest about how its subjects lives would really have been. turns out totalitarianism isn't that dramatic, insert arendt quote here.

i really didn't like All The Real Girls. i watched it with a date and she was all "what decade is this is supposed be in" and that kind of popped the bubble on the whole thing. DGG's "lyricism of ruined quotidian life" doesn't have enough juggalo in it, if u get me. plus zoey desch is garbage. a literal piece of garbage walking around. she's horrible.

under-sung movie I think of along with ATRG - The Good Girl. I didn't think to vote for it, but it has everything good about Green's movies without the film-school project qualities.

would definitely watch a david gordon green juggalo movie.

One of Jake G's better performances too.

xpost

needs more juggalo in it

lives of others was awarded Most R-U-Kidding Movie of the Decade by me because it was one of these things that like 10 friends all raved about to me -- like really, really loved it -- and i thought it was really some bullshit.

― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:27 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what was bullshit about it?

the soul of Stasi agents getting warmed by the magic power of Rilke poems.

but I'm sure it's been amply discussed upthread.

alfred otm.

(and i liked the good girl too, tho the end goes sort of off the rails. john c. reilly is great in that.)

plus zoey desch is garbage. a literal piece of garbage walking around. she's horrible.

― goole, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:39 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

the hell man?

saw 10min of 'the good girl': awful.

do her fucking bicycling-around-the-shops cotton industry ads w/ self-penned song air in the UK? she is horrible. this is probly lex-ish but i don't care. terrible person, thoroughly.

86. All the Real Juggalos
87. Minority Juggalo
88. Juggalos of Murder
89. The Lives of Juggalos
90. Juggalos Together
91. Talk to Juggalos
92. Juggalo Malady
93. Sideways (it's about Juggalos, trust me)
94. Napoleon Juggalo
95. Capturing the Juggalos
96. Juggalo Fidelity
97. Happy-Go-Juggalo
98. Juggaloville
99. The Juggalo Teacher
100. Movern Juggalo

mcl

I wonder what a Lars von Trier movie about Juggalos would be like.

I wonder what an Apichatpong Weerasethakul movie about Juggalos would be like.

I haven't seen much of zoey desch but wasn't she in Weeds? loved that character...

hypothetical juggalo movies should have its own thread

A Mike Leigh film about Juggalos for god's sake...

you think indie fuqs are bad, imagine going into a record store run by juggalos

do her fucking bicycling-around-the-shops cotton industry ads w/ self-penned song air in the UK?

no.

omg that list i laughed so much i got acid reflux

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFutyUrllo

jed, just wait till we get further up the list:

Anchorjuggalo
Juggalos on a Plane
Pan's Juggalo
No Country for Old Juggalos

you think Juggalos on a Plane will place?

There are definitely things about Zooey ca. 2010 that I'm not surprised people hate on (even if it's the usual bullshit narcissism-of-small-differences anti-hipster stuff ILXors traffic in, like "oh God she's VEGAN" or "oh God she wears VINTAGE CLOTHES" or "oh God she's married to BEN GIBBARD"), but it's worth mentioning that in 2003 I had no idea who she was and only barely remembered, after reading reviews of All the Real Girls that pointed it out, that she was in Almost Famous.

yr prob the only person on the thread who knew all those things about her

I knew she was in Almost Famous!

Maybe on this thread, jed. I remember some of that stuff being mentioned on the Top Chef: Masters thread.

oh God she was on TOP CHEF

lol

lol that ZD ad for cotton is lame but why that would inspire intense hatred is a mystery. (unless you really hate big cotton)

glad to see my first targeted corny indie haterz vote hit the mark re: AtRG

i really want someone to make "the juggalo teacher" tbh

Re Zooey:

why do you all want 'rich daughters of hollywood' to have all the pathetic indie quirks of your quirky indie friends??!?!

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:18 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i guess maybe someday she'll get naked in a movie and omg itll be like looking at an indie girl naked!!!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:19 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

b-but trife she plays the banjo!

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:19 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't dislike All the Real Girls, but ever since George Washington David Gordon Green has struggled to write scripts that fit his peculiar rhythms and images. I don't know, fer instance, whether the tension between Paul Schneider's warm, natural performance in ATRG and Green's abstraction produces something worthwhile.

The sauna scene was hot though.

"93. Sideways (it's about Juggalos, trust me)"
I also vouch for Sideways' Juggaloesiness.

Green has definitely had diminishing returns (Pineapple Express excluded). Only scenes of any real merit in Snow Angels were the ones with the kid and Olivia Thirlby, and even then only one or two of them.

xpost

btw not seen Sideways since theaters and this has made me really want to watch it again.

Green has definitely had diminishing returns

i haven't seen snow angels, but i kinda liked undertow. again as much for the locales as for the story, i just really like his sense of the south, his places definitely feel like places i've been.

otoh a dgg/natalie portman suspiria sounds like an awful idea. is that really happening?

I don't think any DGG films are actually bad, they're just less than the previous. I liked a lot of Undertow, and as a Southern boy I feel a connection with the rusted out crapholes he liked to shoot in his first three films.

I didn't know about that suspiria remake, and I'm not going to look it up to confirm.

xp - jaymc - is this similar to why people disliked Winona Ryder in the 90s? I vaguely remember disliking her for narcissism-of-small-differences reasons.

George Washington better be DVG's highest ranking film...

Biggest shocker so far in the thread (in a good way!):

Kinda loved HiFid but didn't come close to making my 40. Best movie on list so far tho.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:35 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

I think Napoleon Dynamite might be my favorite of those listed thus far (despite having given another film that's already placed more points on my hastily-composed ballot), which should go a long way towards cementing my status as a Film Heathen. I kinda wish that ND was one of those movies that nobody else knew about, because it seems to be a movie that nobody really gets. Like, if I'd randomly stumbled upon it as some obscure, bottom-shelf video store selection, I'd've larfed, but I doubt I would've recommended it to many people. The characters' affectless lack of interest in their fates, as they blithely lope from one meaningless misadventure to the next, is like comedy gold to me. Give me subtle, minimalist, dopey comedy like this over anything loud and self-satisfied and desperate for attention anyday.

The characters' affectless lack of interest in their fates, as they blithely lope from one meaningless misadventure to the next, is like comedy gold to me.

That's why I prefer Nacho Libre. That, and the fact that Jack Black actually does most of his acting with his face instead of his usual yelling/singing.

Deric OTM.

Omar, fantastic job, btw.

ILX, on the other hand...

^^should be the standard poll thread thanx from here on out

why do you all want 'rich daughters of hollywood' to have all the pathetic indie quirks of your quirky indie friends??!?!

― trife

http://trustedbi.com/images/puzzled-man.jpg

all the real girls had a nice hal hartley zoned vibe but then it was trying to be all hard truths abt lyfe 4 u - not a pleasant combo

I still really like AtRG. Mostly for the mood and the episodic nature of it. There are a ton of great scenes in that movie.

really happy together made it, was my number one

I wonder what an Apichatpong Weerasethakul movie about Juggalos would be like.

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp314/pauly_cy/tiger20makeup.jpg

i liked all the real girls but i remember zero, nothing, zip about it at all... i couldnt even remember that danny mcbride was in it...

I just figured out that High Fidelity snuck in as a POPULIST entry for Springsteen cameo.

amazing how you can assign completely nonsensical motives even to people that like the same things as you

<3 AtRG so very much. I like all of DGG's movies.

somedude, it was a joke, and you're an asswipe.

do you mean the political epochs in which the films were made? roughly?

no.

I wonder what day something I voted for will show up.

Two of my top 10 are in. I'm golden.

AtRG was in my top ten and Undertow was close. I can see the anti-DGG's point of view, but his aesthetics resonate with me or something.

^ AtRG made my top ten as well, and I think "his aesthetics resonate with me or something" is about as good a defense as i could really provide for why I love that movie.

man 0/15 so far, the only one i considered out of those was Morvern Callar and that didn't make the cut. Have a feeling my tastes are a little bit too askew from the ilx film massive to get any representation on this poll. :-(

2 of my votes have made it so far (Happy-Go-Lucky and Together), but I'm kinda happy about how the poll has turned out so far. Majority of my votes were for "international" (i.e. non-USA/UK) movies, and I thought few of them had a chance here, but if films like Together and Memories of Murder made it, then there might still be a chance that Songs from the Second Floor or Persepolis or The Isle or Look at Me is yet to come. I think the variety of movies in the top 85-100 is positively wide, even if I don't care for some of the individual choices.

I've been very poor these last couple of years (as many have) and don't have a local indie cinema, so I'm sad to say I've had to watch a lot of flicks via t*r*e*t, but subtitles on foreign films often don't come through on our DVD player unless hard-coded. Therefore I'm missing out on a lot of decent foreign films.

Ah, I thought The Isle was 1990's, otherwise I'd have voted for it. 2 other Kim Ki-duk films made it to my ballot, can't see them charting somehow...I'm still hoping The Werckmeister Harmonies will creep in though.

I've realised that the existence of David Gordon Green has passed me by completely before now.

More elitist, snobby comments coming soon!

I'm still hoping The Werckmeister Harmonies will creep in though.

I've realised that the existence of David Gordon Green has passed me by completely before now.

I agree with you on both of these.

man 0/15 so far

Shasta, you are aligned w/ me BRAH

0/15 here too.

2/15, but I have a feeling my list looks way different than you guys's lists.

3/15 for me

0/15

Sorry, actually I have 3/15: Happy-Go-Lucky, The Piano Teacher, and Together. I can't remember any other ILX poll with such a high convergence... In the 1970s album poll I got 3/100.

Will rep hard for Minority Report, but not on a thread where people are wanking over Von Trier.

I would read your reps.

Minority Report is tight as a drum for all but the problematic final 20 mins, looks amazing, has excellent support turns and Tom Cruise is actually watchable in it.

But just going back to design & visuals alone it delivers- performances and pacing on top make it well worth it's (low) slot on the list.

LvT dig was probably unfair, as there have probably been as many LvT haters as not on.

High Fidelity & Sideways also low placers on my ballot, so I guess any further of my pics will be met with the requisite derision also.

Just hoping Kung Fu Hustle makes top 10 tbh.

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/minority-kart.gif

I don't remember that bit but would have put in higher in my ballot if I did.

But just going back to design & visuals alone it delivers

yeah i wish i could think of the right word to describe the visuals....

that shit with the spiders was old hat and on some speilberg kids movie shit

oh no, it was like something from spielberg's best movies!

im 0/15 but i have an exceedingly strong suspicion that the majority of my ballot choices will make it

3/15, but they're the bottom three, and I only gave Morvern Callar around 4 points, so was never particularly invested in it getting in. The high scoring has made me give up on Songs getting in, too, as I think there are only about three of us who love it.

I had Songs From The Second Floor at around #20. 2/15 for me so far (Tropical Malady and Memories Of Murder). Um, did anyone else vote for Cremaster 3?

1/15, happy-go-juggalo

nowt of mine yet. I don't really like many of LvTs films but his reductio ad absurdum of emotional engagement w/ cinema isn't something you can 'hate' neatly. he IS a troll, feeling anything towards him is as awkward/questionable as feeling anything towards his characters. I think he's maybe patronising towards cinema in general and to his own films perhaps but not to the audience or any other group in particular. I'm not expecting Five Obstructions to place but seeing his efforts laid bare against leth's stoicism and hearing him admit his own failure was sort of great, and some of the shorts were awesome.

2/15 - friedmans/real girls

do still expect at least say 1/3 of mine to show

My ballot was pretty canon, so I think about 15 of mine should place.

this is a real silent majority poll imo. i've hardly ever heard ne1 rep for 'all the real girls'.

this is a real silent majority poll imo

Yes. 100+ ballots? Most film threads are like 4 people yelling at each other.

2/15 (Napoleon and High Fidelity). I'm actually surprised that I've seen six of the movies above, as my movie viewing (of movies released this decade, anyway) has really tapered off as the last ten years have elapsed. For example, just went to see Bogdonavich's Nickelodeon (1976) the other night, which I'm pretty sure is the fourth film I've seen in theaters over the last 12 months. So my ballot may be a wholly unfair representative of what the oughts had to offer.

to belabor the lvt, i'll say again that i think he cares way more about entertaining an audience than most of his miserabilist cohort. he's a showman in a way that, say, haneke is too stiff-lipped to be. that can make him annoying, in a sort of "jokes, bruv" way, but i really think he's more of a ringmaster than a bully or a sadist. (and of course whether the audience is actually entertained is a whole other variable.)

tipsy OTM

LvT may not want you to feel good about yourself, but Haneke doesn't want you to feel good about yourself and he also doesn't want you to be entertained.

I don't think him a sadist or a bully or even a misogynist really, I just think his shenanigans are dull. It's a shame, really, because a lot of Antichrist is really great, but then he's got to belabor the point with the last 40 or so minutes. 'So you think I hate women? Well hows about this!!' He can't do anything subtly.

1 for me (High Fidelity, which I gave 7 points).

4/15 (Morvern, Talk to Her, Together, ATRG)

'So you think I hate women? Well hows about this!!' He can't do anything subtly.

see i totally don't think that's what that's about. but i guess we hashed all that out on the antichrist thread. it's just, i have this feeling that while with some directors people are at pains to read all kinds of nuance into material that might not sustain it, with von trier there's an opposite tendency to take his provocations at face value, or less than face value, and assume that's all he's doing. but of course when you put a self-clitorectomy right there on screen, you take the risk that that's all people are going to see.

have you seen the Europa DVD? On the supplements he pretty much says "I'm full of shit" a couple of times.

I still love The Kingdom, esp the first half.

the Jamie Foxx movie?

I'd pay to see LvT direct the feature-length

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FNkpxcBuFGQ/Ss6_vW-8w2I/AAAAAAAAAFw/tHbo767dnaI/s320/wanda-300x296.jpg

Watching VT films these days is very similar to watching Neveldine/Taylor's Gamer in that at some point they can only really be appreciated as academic exercises. And that grates.

I would be stunned if Werkmeister Harmonies doesn't make it.

doesn't fixed

I've not seen it, but from threads and elsewhere I think it's got the momentum. Just depends on the silent voters. Probably in the same boat as Miami Vice or even The New World.

Of course, if neither of those three make it, what types of films would the silent voter block be going for? Crash? Will there be a LOTR vote split?

i sorta liked 'werkmeister'. wouldn't vot for it. why so gloomy, europeans? you have it easy.

I really don't see Decasia having 230 pts either. I'll live.

Decasia and Werkmeister are massive blindspots for me.

I think we'll get a better idea of the direction the poll is going if we start seeing oddball films pop up in the next couple of rounds. if even one non-consensus film show up, stuff like birth, martyrs, songs from second floor, etc, there's hope that a passionate minority could lift a film.

for instance, if 10 people rated decasia in their top ten it would get at least 310 pts which would still get it ranked. I'm not expecting that to happen, but it's within the realm of possibility.

i'm mostly expecting to start seeing things like apatow movies showing up. but maybe i'm expecting too little.

also, awesomely funny movies about oilmen and Natzis

syriana, the good german

the lols!

2/15 (happy-go-lucky and movern callar) but i totally wouldve voted for memories of murder if id tht abt my list at all

Yes. 100+ ballots? Most film threads are like 4 people yelling at each other.

lol those are only the shitty ones abt blog posts plenty of ppl post abt good movies

I'm pretty sure this will be the top 20, but everything else is probably fair game

there will be blood
mystic river
eternal sunshine of the spotless mind
mulholland drive
inland empire
pan's labyrinth
children of men
superbad
kill bills
LOTR 1-2-3
let the right one in
the wrestler
brokeback mountain
cache
in the mood for love
royal tennebaums
wall-e

if some of these show up in bottom 100 we'll be in for an interesting list

I voted for exactly 4 of those (but meant to vote for a 5th).

should a mod add a link to the noms thread in the first post?

mystified why u think 'mystic river' is gonna chart