Talking in a non-dickish way about the AC Transit fight

Have at it.

how many threads must a man walk down

this is a good idea

cool, another thread about this

much better to have multiple threads, rather than confining it to a one-day event on a sub-board

the good thing about this is the letters "AC" now have a second baitable meaning. maybe the lex will show up to berate MWPP.

lesson to be taken, IMO: never fuck with old guys with forearm tattoos. Good chance they were soldiers, Marines, sailors or one-percenters of some kind, and probably will not back down from a fight if pressed.

maybe the lesson ought to be, don't fuck with anyone, ever.

this whole thing is depressing in the extreme.

I don't see one bit how it's funny but I've always been a sensitive square that way.

I think the more important lesson is "don't fuck with people", period.

xp: ha MN mind-meld

fight dudes should have a beer summit with obama

cool, another forksclovetofu thread

i aim to please

can we all just have a day to calm down about this and then start a new thread?

next one should be a poll, obv

http://www.heraeusamba.com/

"maybe the lesson ought to be, don't fuck with anyone, ever"

This is a pretty good lesson, frankly.

But yeah milo is right. I think the young guy might have let the fact that the old dude walked away (usually a sign of okay I'm not really into getting into it) blind him to the fact that dude pretty clearly was not really the kind of guy you start shit with.

He's not a young guy though is he? Younger (he says he's 50) but not young.

said the old guy

well, how else would you describe him in this particular situation

frankly i think you can expect this kind of behavior when you contract Anal Cunt to run your transit system

non-elderly

xp 'younger' (like I said upthread).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbsX5j-8T3Y

The girl who posted the video has now posted an apology.

thanks for posting this young woman's video

"caucasian man"

Yeah, sorry, I am old (as has been mentioned).

This isn't the first time the older dude has been on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOkeafCVtTE&feature=player_embedded

btw apologies if that video is gross, I didn't watch it before posting

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=76529&action=showall&bookmarkedmessageid=1302341

wtf that police one is way worse.

that being said this guy seems to sure get himself in a lot of conflicts...i bet he's never at fault according to him.

basically the dude said "chinamen" and wears a shirt that says "I am a Motherfucker" so something tells me he's kinda edgy

i guess the time is right to start that bumfights thread I've been planning..

fluxnyne (50 minutes ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam

Reply holy shit, I didn't know the A's even had fans.

talking in a non-dickish way about the oakland a's

Wait is that really the same dude from the A's taser youtube? Jeez that guy gets around.

Also fuck you fluxnyne.

I think what's particularly disheartening, but interesting, about the whole thing is the internet response - inasmuch as you can glean anything from youtube comments and bb posts.

So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).

It's amazing how this skews perception of the video too. The big, crazy-eyed motherfucker-t-shirt-wearing guy yelling "chinaman" and "Spitshine my shoes" on a public bus is seen as a harmless elderly man. People I've talked to on other boards claim that the black guy actually punched the white guy in the face when that clearly never happened.

The black guy, who strikes me as frustrated but sort of reserved and not that aggressive is seen as some kind of dangerous thug.

When I was arguing with one person about the possibility that maybe the white guy had said something inflammatory or racist to the black guy before the tape started, he responded "Of course not. He would never do that on a bus full of [scary black people]" - when in fact all I can really make out on the tape are a couple of black women, a young white woman and a couple of white guys.

etc.

But regardless the sense of vindication people seem to feel at this video is very troubling.

The black guy does throw the first punch, dude.

That's, like, one of the main reasons people are saying the video is funny; dude took a swing at a crazy old man and got punched repeatedly.

Why can't more people on buses be like the guy who tried to convince me to join the Five Percent Nation? That guy made my day. "They need people like you!"

"The black guy, who strikes me as frustrated but sort of reserved and not that aggressive is seen as some kind of dangerous thug."

WTF video did you watch?!!?

Yeah, but he doesn't hit him in the face, despite what the white guy claims. And it's not even clear if it's a punch or a grab or a shove or what, although obviously it is the first hand-laying regardless.

Also not quite clear in the video -- I think the bloodiness comes mainly from the white guy smashing the black guy's face into the seat, which seems a little overboard.

I'm not saying that the white guy was in the wrong, I just think the video is getting turned into a much simpler narrative than it is.

it was a reserved punch

the thing i get immediately from watching the video is that the old guy is clearly a crazy vietnam vet, not the sort of guy you want to set off

Who sees the burly dude wearing this fall's I AM A MOTHERFUCKER collection as a harmless elderly man?

non-motherfucker throws the first punch, aiming and connecting with the motherfucker's chest. motherfucker then gets up and lands about 10 well-thrown punches on non-motherfucker, at his face, bloodying him, knocking him down.

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

WTF video did you watch?!!?

I watched the video a lot of times. It's really not clear what's going on in the beginning and it seems a little like the white guy (who seems a bit batshit) might have been starting shit with the black guy first. Again, not clear. But the black guy doesn't come off as the type to just randomly harass some older man on a bus imo.

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

Yeah I think that's fair.

"But the black guy doesn't come off as the type to just randomly harass some older man on a bus imo."

Except that he does threaten him repeatedly. And follow him to the front of the bus. And strike him. So yeah he is the type.

ah you were disputing punch location; sorry, I thought you were being totally crazypants "dude was attacked for no reason"

white guy = crazy
black guy = too aggro for his own good, didn't know when to stop

result = face bashed in

yeah i mean the motherfucker does at least move up to another area of the bus

is anyone disputing that both guys should have been arrested for assault? how does that work, anyway, if they were both found guilty? would both fines/sentences be the same regardless of who hit who first, who hit who the most, etc?

having witnessed a number of these kinds of altercations on public transit there's really nothing you can do besides shake your head at all the free-floating, misguided aggression out there. people are stupid, what can ya do.

Looks to me like Motherfucker knew he was about to lose it and tried to de-escalate before he started the physical confrontation.

I'll dispute that both should have been arrested. I don't think either should, really, but if anything the first to punch goes to jail.

But I dunno, I've occasionally worked the door at a shady club for a couple of years now and there's a small tussle just about every weekend. I'm probably more at peace with fighting because of it - dudes of all ages and races are stupid and aggro and this kind of shit will always happen.

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2010/02/17/how-should-the-sfpd-deal-with-somebody-like-epic-beard-man-thomas-bruso-tasers/

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/4364045941_acf02a6531_o.jpg

amazing this dude is famous for just being an asshole on the bus

I mean like with a track record and documented history and everything

“Back in 1996, I was working at the intersection of 2nd & Market. Each and every day the man pictured above would walk by my shop, wave a loaf of sourdough in my face, and scream obscenities about the San Francisco 49′ers.”

I'm 100% I've seen this guy btw

100% certain that is

milo, what's your point? that because it happens all the time, that nothing should be done about it?

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

how can you watch the video and honestly say that motherfucker didn't fight past the point of non-motherfucker not being a threat? by my count i can see motherfucker land exactly 11 punches, those are the ones that we see before the camera starts jostling around anyway, and then when the camerawoman regains focus, motherfucker is kicking (and punching?) the guy while he's restrained on the ground.

Not shocked he's a Raiders fan, tbh.

I think the MF guy was probably more-or-less in the right at the end, I'm just not so quick to think he's a hero in this situation and I think it's pretty o_0 that so many people think of him as one. Calls to mind the end of Taxi Driver in a small way.

xp - I think they should be removed from the bus and treated for injuries, and if either wants to press charges then you can talk about arresting people. But yeah, it happens all the time, and it's not that big of a deal.

As to when you stop, that's a function of adrenaline and regaining your focus. It's much less likely for a drunk guy or a crazy old guy to regain their composure after a punch or two (this is, again, why you shouldn't pick fights with crazy old men. Or drunk guys.) - and I didn't see Motherfucker stop for a minute and then continue beating. He moves to get away when he appears to realize the fight is effectively over.

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

Carles weighs in on most important aspect:
http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/02/keut-hipster-girl-watches-white-guy-beat-up-black-guy-on-public-bus.html

xxpost light scuffles at shady clubs every other weekend might not be too big of a deal, but c'mon bloody fistfights on public transportation in the middle of the day? it's totally different.

can't wait for the hipsterpuppies take

Why is it different? Because members of the public saw it in broad daylight?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22586811/detail.html

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

she also shouldn't have been encouraging non-mf to kick mf's ass

that wasn't her, that was one of her friends; she was the one saying "it's not worth it, blood"

Assaulting bystanders is obv never acceptable and gets the cops called on you even in shady nightclubs, fwiw

keut hipster girl is ultimately responsible for this whole thing btw, all clearly inciting alpha male violence in an attempt to win her affection

why are nightfights at bars and dayfights on a bus different? because there are about 1,000,000 movies that feature bar brawls and only one movie with a busbrawl - SPEED starring the lady from THE BLIND SIDE ('95)

oops i mean SPEED ('94)

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

yep. Oakland is fucked up.

Caveat: I haven't and can't see this at work

As a square-looking middle-aged white guy, I am as sensitive as anybody to the threat of black-on-white aggression in public transport as any white guy out there; I don't even bother taking the bus home from work anymore (preferring the MUNI train) 'cause of all the (mostly) black kids smoking pot at PM, rowdily, noisily (and, frankly, just like me at their age, except for the weed-smoking and threats of violence, many of which are attention-seeking and mere provocation). However, it IS public transport and I'm not so omphaloskeptic nor so 'relativist' as to think that, when it comes down to real danger or real social harm, I wouldn't help a driver, a fellow passenger, or my normative view of behavior in public to intervene; I've helped 'escort' racist or homophobic passangers off the bus, when necessary. There is nothing funny about people (as Kant would put it) treating others as mean, about them making facile judgements about someone else based on the accident of their race as opposed to their behavior.

What particularly saddens me is that, in this bad economy where people are in bad straights, it is increasingly frequent to see class, and racial and gender and orientation conflicts rise to the fore AND to see an increased tendency to resort to violence. People thrying to frighten other people based on their race or people responding thereto in a way that implicates uninvolved people are ignoble swine. I'm mostly fine with a dick getting his come-uppance but I don't find it particularly funny; if you're comforted by righteous violence, okay I get it, but I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.

from previous thred:

"I've been beaten up enough times in my life"

I'm not shocked by this revelation, but not sure it's true either.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times"

In an instance like this where both participants are dicks, really the only way for them both to get their comeuppance is if both of them are arrested.

inappropriate chuckle at "people are in bad straights" typo

Dan, what a depressing link.

I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.

hardman Michael White

What really depresses me, though you're probably right about them both getting arrested, is that that means that the bus will be held up, commuters peaceably making their way home will be inconvienced, and worse, and I don't want to sound too vigilante here, but the peaceability of public areas policed by decent locals will have been shown to have failed, which is both sad and intimidating.

Shakey, I don't know where you live, but I CAN find you and I will rain down upon you a torrent of, fuck it, French abuse, the likes of which you will not have heard since that one time, oops, anyway, you know which time.

ideally what would've happened here is that some of the other passengers in the back of the bus dissuaded black dude from following crazy white dude to the front - cuz that's really where the line was crossed. but people aren't always amenable to persuasion.

lolz x-posts

Actually, this basically makes me go back to my lazy Commie tendencies and wonder why there's so many people off their meds, so many bad, anti-social, unemployed drunks, so many hopeless kids, so many people whose first impulse is to just strike out. </libtard>

also that link brings up this:

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/img_9386-copy-450x675.jpg

and I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry

yeah that's how handcuffed guys on the ground get shot in the head amirite

xxp Because they're unhappy, and they're not going to take it anymore. Whatever "it" is.

Isn't the NYE BART killing case kind of hedging on where his Taser was holstered?

"In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times""

This is Tuomas we're talking about here.

Whatever "it" is.

That always turns out so well, though, no?

hedging

do you mean "hinging"? what is it with you today!

I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry

this is OTM time a bazillion

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

do you mean "hinging"? what is it with you today!

Drinks at lunch I had a bit of an 'altercation' on MUNI at lunch.

So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).

^^^ The thing giving me the most pause out of the whole several threads re this incident.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

do cops bring assault rifles onto buses in NY? cuz I have seen this happen on AC Transit

Laurel's got a good point. Once it ceases to be white/black, and let's put ourselves in the shoes of a middle-aged black lady, it's just about whatever out-of-control asshole is going to ruin your commute today.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

I haven't really spent too much time in the in the bronx or east brooklyn, but I tend to feel safer on nyc transit than east bay (or sf) transit - even in nice parts of the bay area the transit is surprisingly sketch

I feel plenty safe on SF transit now that I don't ride the 9 anymore - but even on that nothing really bad happened to me, per se. I did witness some sketchy shit.

I don't even know what my point is! But that point is making me think baot some things.

primarily involving people off their meds + teenagers

x-post

this is partly due to way more middle-class people owning cars in the bay area xp to myself

My buses/trains are mostly fine, 6, 71, MUNI to Church but I feel safer in NYC, even late at night.

"In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times""

This is Tuomas we're talking about here.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:51 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That's a little not-non-dickish

Did NYC pass a watershed moment when it became "sometimes sketch, mostly adequate" sometime during the Giuliani administration? I have heard stories about sitting next to someone who was knifed silently on the train and the attacker walked off at the next stop and no one noticed until the train lurched and the victim fell over. That was one generation ago (happened to my aunt) and seems like a movie about New York, to me.

Then again, someone in my social cohort was shot at on the G train in mid-Brooklyn back in the mid-'90s.

http://newcentrist.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/goetz-cover.jpg

My aunt lived in NYC in the 70's and it sounded genuinely terrifying. Post Giuliani NYC does have a rep for being safer but also for being duller. Take your pick, I guess. I thought most crime stats boiled down to demographics in the end.

I guess that was a dumb question, huh.

ive never felt threatened on buses or trains in nyc, knock wood

I have actually been threatened by someone on a train in NYC but it was at rush hour so it wasn't all that dangerous but was purely for intimidation/point-scoring.

but as MTA starts getting shittier and shittier and more and more ppl abandon it i imagine it will get sketchier and sketchier. right now even at weird hours im rarely the only person in the subway station or on the train.

I see WAY more cops in nyc than I do in sf/east bay

http://chasness.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/death_wish.jpg

You're commute sounds heroic, iatee

luckily nypd is stopping and searching more and more black people every year, for your safety

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/stop_frisk_record_voNoD2KGtU2a2otqGTPgDO

ya I wish they would just merge bart and mta :(

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:55 PM (1 hour ago)

is this what you really believe?

I see WAY more cops in nyc than I do in sf/east bay

given the remarkably assholish track record of both SF and Oakland's PDs I'm not sure I really wanna see any more cops on Muni tbh. Like Mike White, I kinda wish the general populace was a little more assertive about (non-violently) policing themselves...

Bra Matt
Bar Matt
Brat Tam
Brat Mat
Bat Mart
Bat Tram
Tab Mart
Tab Tram

Not so promising

sorry i know it's been an hour and a half or whatever but damn

I don't think you can afford to get into fights if that isn't what you believe! Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

I'm agnostic about SFPD on MUNI. Not agnostic about OPD, Shakey.

i get what milo is saying but he probably could have phrased it in a way that didnt make him sound like such an aggro hardman

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:55 PM (1 hour ago)

is this what you really believe?

― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:17 PM (57 seconds ago)

I haven't been in a fight since 9th grade and it seems like sound reasoning to me.

when i lived in SF in 2004 i took MUNI a lot and never really felt threatened, unless im not remembering well. but i also wasnt out until weird hours of the morning

Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

^^^, with the caveat of also including not knowing when to flee/avoid fights where you cannot/will not prevail

given the remarkably assholish track record of both SF and Oakland's PDs I'm not sure I really wanna see any more cops on Muni tbh. Like Mike White, I kinda wish the general populace was a little more assertive about (non-violently) policing themselves...

I think the chances that a noble bay area population will rise up and keep the peace are lower than the chances of the police getting slightly less jerk-y

sweet butch 125 tag on the death wish poster. never noticed that before.

i just finished reading the tipping point and he talked about the transit mess in NYC in the 70s/80s and it sounded beyond insane.

jesus xposting!

kevin, sometimes looking like a hardman is worth its weight in gold. If you look like you're too much trouble to take on, most people won't.

or were you trying to understand what was going on in a clearly fucked-up person's mind? sorry if so

xp what is "finishing fights"? the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it, what was the point of beating him to a pulp other than for the thrill or to impress people? would you apply the same logic to something bigger, like a country's foreign policy?

Starting fights without having the will to finish them seems like the definition of getting your ass beat a lot.

hi every republican i know

is this what you really believe?

Well, yeah. Ideally, no one ever fights, yada yada yada, of course.

But once you're engaged in a fight, worrying about being too aggressive is a v. v. v. good way of getting your ass kicked.

I think the chances that a noble bay area population will rise up and keep the peace are lower than the chances of the police getting slightly less jerk-y

but I HAVE seen it happen, on occasion! Once a bunch of passengers (surprisingly politely) escorted this clearly deranged white dude who was spouting every racial obscenity he could think of off the bus. Another time this old black guy shamed some black teenagers into refraining from harassing other passengers... it's not unheard of.

x-post

looking like a hardman is worth its weight in gold. If you look like you're too much trouble to take on, most people won't.

^^^this. totally OTM and necessary advice for urban living

the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

erm no

the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

no WAY, there's no way he could know that, AND he came up to the front of the bus and threw the first punch.

xp

iatee, most of my buses are both super tolerant and also readily willing to help you off if you're a dick. The exceptions seem to be when the high school boys outnumber you and need to front so they feel their dicks are big enough and when there are drunken crews. The sad exception is when there's someone so smelly/psychotic and at off-hours (I take the bus at 6:30 and I'm willing to see a lot slide) where passangers are too willing to wait.

xp what is "finishing fights"? the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

Motherfucker could throw one soft tap, I guess, but you aren't actually supposed to let the guy you're fighting get his shots in for fairness - and how would Motherfucker know if the guy had a knife on him or something?

i am loling at all the hardmen on this thread!!!

The exceptions seem to be when the high school boys outnumber you and need to front so they feel their dicks are big enough

girls are worse imho. a bunch of bitchy, shrieking teenage girls = me in hell

Some people, when attacked, attack back until the person is incapacitated. That's the entire point of engaging in the fight. It's pretty clear that old white dude knew he was going to lose his shit and attempted to physically extricate himself from the situation. The problem was that neither one of them would let go of the verbal attack and, when the black dude threw that punch, it was pretty much game over.

i am loling at all the hardmen on this thread!!!

lol I just meant that if you look mean/crazy/unpredictable enough most people who might otherwise consider fucking with you will not.

(cue Steve Martin joke about throwing up on his money whenever he leaves the house)

"the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it"

I am (o_O) at this.

i just carry a gun with me, in my hand, at all times

yeah max seriously who knew ilx was full of such manly men

xp alex dude get the fuck out, i mean once he was already on his ass and not even raising his hands to defend himself

the black guy posed absolutely no threat to the white guy and he knew it,

Again, I haven't seen this and we can talk racism until the cows come home, but assuming that someone in a adrenaline poisoned situation 'knew' something, is just foolish. You could be a racist white dude and still get your ass gratuitously handed to you by some black dudes you don't know. </Situationist>

yeah max seriously who knew ilx was full of such manly men

I haven't been in physical fight in years

"xp alex dude get the fuck out, i mean once he was already on his ass and not even raising his hands to defend himself"

You mean once the guy basically stopped and left the bus?

Another time this old black guy shamed some black teenagers into refraining from harassing other passengers... it's not unheard of.

I've seen a grandma-type chide two teenaged boys into stopping trying to kick out the subway car windows. It was cute.

i just carry a gun with me, in my hand, at all times

Not smart. In SF, the odds are very much against you unless you're willing to be cold-blooded. It's a greenhorn move unless you're a drug-dealer and even then, well, I guess you're a bit of a fuck-up anyway.

You mean once the guy basically stopped and left the bus?

Not to mention the followup video, where everyone is off the bus and dude is taking a few more physical swipes at crazy?

i carry two guns actually

finally watched it. black guy lacks some real survival instincts that should have kicked in when he stood eye to chest with old white guy.

as far as mindsets go in a fight. i was told once that if you get in a fight convince yourself that they other guy really wants to kill you and take the necessary steps to make sure he doesn't. this bit of advice has served me well in the handful of altercations i've found myself in.

maybe we should start a separate thread for "fight advice from regular ilx posters"

i just carry a gun with me, in my hand, at all times

― max, Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:30 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

pistol grip pump at my side at all times

I wear a jacket made of guns at all times

as far as mindsets go in a fight. i was told once that if you get in a fight convince yourself that they other guy really wants to kill you and take the necessary steps to make sure he doesn't. this bit of advice has served me well in the handful of altercations i've found myself in.

ha yeah, this is why most of my "fights" (which ended in high school) have been more like "ambushes"

"hard urban living for the kate bush fan"

dude just read the oxbow dude's book:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JUdx0kipL._SS500_.jpg

I just spray the bus with my Uzis when I get on just to be sure

i ride a bus made out of guns, where a gun is the driver

xxp I love that book.

I'm really not shocked that a bunch of 20/30-something American men have been in fights in their past.

beating him to a pulp other than for the thrill or to impress people? - I would guess that impressing people was the furthest thing from old guy's mind, esp given that he went out of the way to avoid physical confrontation at first & even shied away from it the first time the other guy approached him. When push did come to shove, his reactions suggested the knee-jerk response of a grizzled fighter for whom laying dudes out comes back as naturally as riding a bike.

max, do you live in Mr Nugent's Neighborhood?

put on my gunderwear every morning

my advice for ppl getting into fights is, use your fists to punch

I say American, but from what I can gather fistfights are basically a universal experience of teenage males.

I may have to give up my hardman card, as I've never gotten to the punch-throwing stage, though. Stopped a few possible fights by holding my ground.

i basically just chant "GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS" in a forceful voice, when in public.

I'm really not shocked that a bunch of 20/30-something American men have been in fights in their past.

Last actual fight I was involved in was when I was 19 (my roommate had given away a bunch of my books and tapes to some friend of his I was never going to see again, after I specifically told him to stop taking my shit. this "fight" lasted all of 30 seconds or so. elicited laughter from housemate)

i was told once that if you get in a fight convince yourself that they other guy really wants to kill you and take the necessary steps to make sure he doesn't. this bit of advice has served me well in the handful of altercations i've found myself in.

ok, but don't ever admit this to a police officer or a member of the legal community. deadly force can't be used in self-defense, in response to a perceived threat of death. only an actual threat of death will hold up in court if you lose it and, you know, crush a guy's skull with a rock or something.

I think that Shakey and me, et al. are just talking about how not to get beat up all the time in an urban environment. Bullies love weak targets. Don't look like one.

i was wearing a cardigan today and no one messed with me

you know, crush a guy's skull with a rock or something.

You mean, tear out his still beating heart and take a bite out of it, surely. How many rocks can I find on public transport?

Every punch fight I had, I lost.

Every fight where I could grapple with someone and/or maneuver them into a position where I could beat their head against the ground or a wall, I won.

I circumvented a lot of fights by telling people that if they tried to fight me, I would try to gouge out their eyes first and then, while they were screaming, use the closes blunt instrument to break as many of their bones as I could to make sure they were either dead or hospitalized for as long as possible. Kind of funny how even the largest dude will get totally unnerved if you calmly tell them this, especially if they're young and already nervous around black people.

max, wearing one myself.

i basically just chant "GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS" in a forceful voice, when in public.

― greg dulli appointed feduhral mahshulls (goole), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:42 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i do this too, but then my words turn into actual guns, which i use to shoot people

"hardman behavior for the cardigan set"

beating him to a pulp other than for the thrill or to impress people? - I would guess that impressing people was the furthest thing from old guy's mind, esp given that he went out of the way to avoid physical confrontation at first & even shied away from it the first time the other guy approached him. When push did come to shove, his reactions suggested the knee-jerk response of a grizzled fighter for whom laying dudes out comes back as naturally as riding a bike.

― Man or Austro-Hungarian? (Pillbox), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:39 PM (4 minutes ago)

i guess my point is that this shouldn't be acceptable? we supposedly live in a civilized society where violence is frowned upon - even if he was "defending himself" it shouldn't be seen as a "well you shouldn't have fucked with THAT guy!" situation. i mean duh, he shouldn't have fucked with that guy, but that doesn't mean that beating someone to a pulp in public shouldn't have consequences, or that he couldn't have very easily handled it differently. i personally am not nostalgic for the old west or whatever where the "town crazy" is just as legitimate a niche as the doctor or something, and this sort of vigilante justice is seen as legitimate. we have laws and moral codes & we are adults.

i mean i'm just basically not cool with the whole "it's okay, he's crazy" defense

I don't think anyone here is cool with the "it's okay, he's crazy" defense! I, for one, have said multiple times that I hope both of them get arrested.

look for my new book 'how to avoid fights', its just one page with the sentence "don't get into fights."

ok xp

and a preface

The defense isn't that he's crazy. The defense is that it's a fucking fight and pretty much everything he did that we see is pretty much what you'd expect for a fight.

he's crazy. doesn't excuse his behavior. evidence of his craziness should've been taken into consideration by black dude when considering starting a fight with him

Btw he is crazy. But how he behaves during the fight isn't particularly crazy (except insofar as fighting is inevitably a pretty crazy activity.)

loving the urban survival handbook itt

He's crazy isn't a defense, it's a statement of fact. It wasn't okay for him to start the yelling match with the dude in the back (or engage in it, if the other guy initiated).

I'm not going to say it was unacceptable for him to fight back once punched, because I don't know what the reasonable alternative is supposed to be - curl into a ball and take a beating?

Your reference to "vigilante justice" is bullshit - he didn't follow the guy home and hit him, he responded immediately to being punched. And, of course, no one has defended Motherfucker as being righteous here, nor has anyone referred to him as serving justice.

real footage of max riding the subway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of-57Ivfwz8

everytime i leave the house strap a boom box to by back and then crank up "Walk" by Pantera on repeat. keeps the riff raff away IMO

i've lived in chicago, nyc, and los angeles and i've really never felt in danger of getting into a fight at all. maybe i've got good radar for crazies or maybe i just defuse shit well, i dunno. i've got some more aggro friends who take shit personally and are ready to throw down at a moment's notice, though. one time a guy accidentally knocked over my drink at a bar and apologized and i said, "eh it's cool" and my other friend whispered to me, "if shit goes down, i got your back." kinda maybe me feel like i was 20 and living back in the sticks ready to get into a scrape in the jewel/osco parking lot. i think trouble is pretty easy to avoid for a lot of folks, though obv if you're gay or an ethnic minority or something you might have trouble looking for you, unfortunately.

You wanna step outside and say that?

man how did i not hear about this?

i think i rode the 15 south on broadway w the MFer on the day michael jackson died, and he tried to start a convo about how it wasnt any sadder than any other celeb dying, esp since michael had a shady past. i thought his argument seemed a little ill-timed and in bad taste, but no fights or anything.

i ride the 33 and 27 and occasionally the 9 and 5 in SF. once in a while, i ride the 15 or some other AC transit bus in oakland, and i gotta say: haight/telegraph runaways are by FAR the most obnoxious/disruptive element on both sides of the bay. ive been lucky enough to miss a lot of the race-stuff, and the off-meds dudes (PLENTY of them right near my place at SFGH) have never gotten very aggressive w me. i definitely feel like theres some wildness on the buses and trains here, maybe more than NYC, but i havent really spent much time on NYC buses, so there could be some sampling error...

SFGH routes are stuffed to the gills with crazy

loving the urban survival handbook itt

― this is awful I want Togo home (harbl), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:59 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i recommend printing this thread out and bringin it with u on the bus, next time someone gives u shit just consult the manual

between this and the nutrition nazi thread i can eat well and travel safely for the rest of my days

no one gives me shit, i am made of guns

someone comes at me, i can stab them with a carrot. like "shoot em up"!

No joke, talking about trips to the shooting range and number of guns owned earned me a lot of respect at aforementioned shady club, even though I'd hope it was pretty obvious that I would never ever carry a gun up there.

I miss when ILX was about romance and flowers and random hobo stabbings.

pretty much alternate between these two shirts when braving the big city

http://www.urbanvenom.com/catalog/images/t_shirts/Airbrush/scarface-01.jpg http://imagesource.allposters.com/images/pic/TSHIRTS/97-301-254~Scarface-Cockroach-Posters.jpg

i usually just wear a shirt that says I AM A MOTHERFUCKER

"I Am A Cockroachburier"

The tattoo I shall get on my forehead proclaiming my motherfuckertude will get me out most MUNI-bound tussles, right?

Looking crazier than the other guy might just work, so yeah.

we have laws and moral codes & we are adults

when crazy dudes punch me, I calmly state this phrase over and over until they too realize the error of their ways and then we shake hands and go on our merry weay

yeah, kk, echoing the various sentiments above, I wasn't trying to justify anything - just (over)analyzing the chain of events & such.

Looking crazier than the other guy might just work, so yeah.

I used to use that tack when walking home very late at night; I'd just audibly mumble angrily about randomn shit when walking through sketchy areas and look as carzy as possible. The only downside was that it has kind of stuck.

"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razy!

"fuck karate, Big L practice gun-fu"

Now I just risk cabs. Street-carzy was just too much.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=6952731

adiosparasiempregordito 8/11/09 12:13 PM EDT

The man in this clip, Thomas Bruso, is well-known in San Francisco, mentally unstable and extremely dangerous. Known as "Tom Slick" or "Vietnam Tom", he has attacked and choked people and spent a lot of time in jail. He's very strong, angry, belligerent, violent and unafraid of police. He could hurt or kill innocent people and should be locked up for his own good and for the good of society. I don't generally support using tasers, but this time, the police actually performed a public service.

Profound words from goodbyefatforever.

More like 'goodbye fatso forever'

prefer 'goodbye forever fatty'

Maybe just not a big Taco Bell fan?

At 225, he's big enough...

Farewell chubby for all time.

Sounds like he prefers banh mi, though

Adieu stout fellow!

This Vietnam Tom dude clearly needs to be locked upescaped from a Coen brother movie and needs to find his way back into the film.

“Back in 1996, I was working at the intersection of 2nd & Market. Each and every day the man pictured above would walk by my shop, wave a loaf of sourdough in my face, and scream obscenities about the San Francisco 49′ers.”

Which part of that is objectionable exactly? The loaf?

11-5 isn't THAT bad!

that's a lot of sourdough

the psycho cunt seems afraid, slightly tremulous afterwards and the stupid cunt is still fronting
maybe i am projecting because it's so unfamiliar but these people must be somewhat used to it and yet they still seem really confused, as if it's entirely new and they are behaving spontaneously? even before the fighting starts, before they are hopelessly addled by adrenaline, is a picture of amentia and miscommunication
just completely horrible and hopeless (entreaties of old woman excepted)

Tom in better days

http://thrillwatersrundeep.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/raider-fan.jpg

um yes i want that grateful dead raiders patch

the psycho cunt seems afraid, slightly tremulous afterwards and the stupid cunt is still fronting

this is my take, too. "Motherfucker" clearly didn't want it to come to blows, even though it was probably him who started it in the first place by saying something ignorant. He seemed hysterical and really upset afterward. I sort of felt for both of the guys by the end of it, tbh.

I've seen a lot of crazy & upsetting stuff on public transit while living in Oakland and SF, but nothing that actually blew up into a blood-soaked fight. Not sure my reaction would be to film it, but one does get pretty jaded after enough of it.

vietnam tom vs. kimbo slice, ufc 121.

i have verbally abused those runaway types on the 14-Mission bus before. dude and his girlfriend don't pay to get on, it's a late bus full of people getting off of work, including myself. he proceeds to bring out a fucking guitar, walk around the bus singing, smacks an older chinese woman in the head when the bus lurches, then asks the driver whether the bus is going towards 7th & market, which it clearly fucking isn't. i'm so pissed at this point that i just start berating him..." put your fucking guitar away and get off this bus, what the fuck are you doing here, etc."

other than that, no run-ins.

just seen the video. didn't seem to me that either one of them 'started' it but then the verbals were well under way by the start of the clip.

main thing that strikes me is that, older or not, I AM A MOTHERFUCKER was always gonna beat the other dudes ass clean off in a fight so it weas pretty dumb of said ass-beatee to go up the bus and turn it physical.

not sure where all the controversy is wrt ILX, even if yeah the comments on youtube are less than stellar from all concerned.

"i have verbally abused those runaway types on the 14-Mission bus before."

http://www.doctormacro1.info/Images/Coogan,%20Jackie/Annex/Annex%20-%20Coogan,%20Jackie%20(Trouble)_01.jpg

scott, we're talking runaways who are addicted to drugs, hassle people needlessly, and contribute nothing whatsoever to any community. it's not that i hate all runaways— i know and love quite a few— but that the Haight Street/Hippie Hill types of runaways are leeches.

and more importantly, they're fucking annoying, and many of them have homes they can go home to in another state-- they're just too into the lifestyle of being high and really into tribal jam band shit.

kidding!

i got my fill of the emaciated pitbull crews in philly.

anyway for anyone who wants to see random fisticuffs without any of the racial tension, check out :30 to :50 here. you may want to watch it a few times, it's a bit 'where's wally' to follow it all at once:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNlQ9qVLuuw&feature=related

this is where youtube has taken me tonight- i kinda have a morbid fascination with streetfights.

i ride the 33 and 27 and occasionally the 9 and 5 in SF. once in a while, i ride the 15 or some other AC transit bus in oakland, and i gotta say: haight/telegraph runaways are by FAR the most obnoxious/disruptive element on both sides of the bay. ive been lucky enough to miss a lot of the race-stuff, and the off-meds dudes (PLENTY of them right near my place at SFGH) have never gotten very aggressive w me. i definitely feel like theres some wildness on the buses and trains here, maybe more than NYC, but i havent really spent much time on NYC buses, so there could be some sampling error...

reallllly disagree. I've lived on telegraph and on upper haight. crusty kids are sooo harmless imo.

oh yikes dudes that video is all kinds of fucked up - didnt see it until just now

one of the things i least miss about being a bus rider is shit like this, which happened around me on a semi-regular basis right here in sleepy lil MPLS/STPL

i just finally watched it. yep just a day on the bus. not pleasant :/

It's always been my theory that the level of hosility on the bus has a lot to with the fact that no one wants to have to use the bus combined with the shame stigma of being someone who has to. Note: this is prob different in places where public transportation is more common/acceptable.

I just finally watched it and this:

not sure where all the controversy is wrt ILX, even if yeah the comments on youtube are less than stellar from all concerned.

it's just two crazy people, not a race war. I dunno, this stuff happens all the time.

I feel pretty skeptical about that "shame stigma of being someone who has to" ride the bus hypothesis. Maybe in, like, LA/Houston/Phoenix sprawl metros, but it's never occurred to me to feel that way (or that anyone else would feel that way) here in the Twin Cities for example.
Maybe the 3 DUI license-revoked suburban dads who normally drive compensation pickups feel humiliated to be on the bus, but how many of those are there?

my bus route (express to campus) is not in anyway shameful for anyone aboard, as far as i can tell

Mpls is not bad for busing, really, provided they're on time. Also to answer Dan, having grown up in the shadow of Excelsior Boulevard, where cops go to play DUI Pokemon...probably more 'resting' drivers than both of us imagine. The state that really shames the DUI offender is (perhaps fittingly) Michigan.

This may have a lot to w/the places I lived tbh. The stpl 16 is a bummer, and the rocking east side bus trips were also not awesome.

holy s at the comments on popular web site 'digg' re:this

"Stop trying to ***** with white people, especially old white people. Keep the "thug" ***** to yourselves."
+1456 diggs

"If you:

1) Have a nickname like "G-Money," "Dastruction" or "Lil Cuz"
2) Dropped out of 10th grade, armed with nothing but a slow-witted 2nd grader's grasp of English
2) Named your baby Armani and then promptly walked out on your "baby momma"
3) Take pictures of yourself and your homies wearing "mad bling" and sitting on a '95 BMW
4) Point to a self-produced rap CD called "Git Dat Money" as not only the crowning achievement of your life, but the closest you ever came to uttering a complete and intelligible sentence...

Then chances are that you're just another in the growing legion of douchebags that has MLK spinning in his grave, and the rest of us crossing to the other side of the street and voting for more prisons. Nice work, Lil Cuz. I didn't create that ugly caricature of you, YOU did."
+603 diggs

Actually I think the stpl bus system is a totally different animal than the mpls side.

My St Paul MTC experience is 21 and 16 (emergency run to St Paul Northern Lights-type missions) plus a few horrible transfers to W.7th and Montreal when I was a teenager.

I once bumped into a crazy person on a bus and even though I apologized she completely freaked out on me and slapped me. She made a huge scene and when we got off the bus she chased me down the street. It was terrifying. Boston ppl - if you haven't figured this out on your own the 66 bus (particularly the Alston - Brookline portion of the route) is the crazybus.

http://digg.com/users/mparker21311/h.png

Nice work, Lil Cuz. I didn't create that ugly caricature of you, YOU did.

reallllly disagree. I've lived on telegraph and on upper haight. crusty kids are sooo harmless imo.

― iatee, Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:57 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah, ive only been here a year, and i definitely admit i havent seen too much fucked-up shit -- those kids just seem really unsympathetic in comparison to the arbitrary bum. i understand this may be unfair/inaccurate, and maybe ill change my mind some time.

riding the Haight buses on a Friday/Saturday night is a treat. i think there's a bum route where they go up to the park to score dope, then back down to 6th and Market to get high, drunk, laid, etc. sounds kind of fun now that I think of it.

you guys ever go to any bum city saints shows out there? dig them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUGL_BGxCE0

i've seen them before, they're pretty fucking awesome. that said, the crowd they attract is often none-too-pleasant— lots of people looking for fights and not about having fun.

nyc subway in the 70s was def some post-apocalyptic shit, cool graffiti tho

and also, re: the crusties... as someone who has lived in a squat before, and lives in a pretty punk rock house right now, and inhabits that scene quite frequently, a lot of the kids i see on haight/whatever have absolutely nothing to do with and no interest in any sense of community. other runaways, like the queer kids in the tenderloin i know, stick up for each other, at least, even if they can get bitchy about streetcorner stuff. the haight crusties really don't give a fuck, and that's sad for them, sad for the world, and ESPECIALLY SAD FOR THEIR STARVING DOGS.

i mean, yeah, the crusties aren't going to pull a knife on you at a show, which happened to my friend last weekend in the mission. but they're not DOING anything. i'm as anti-work as the next guy, but that doesn't mean that i should feel bad for not giving you quarters so you can buy a 40.

haha I don't have any sympathy for them and whether or not they 'support the community' doesn't matter either.

the 'not gonna pull a knife on me' part is the important part.

It's always been my theory that the level of hosility on the bus has a lot to with the fact that no one wants to have to use the bus combined with the shame stigma of being someone who has to. Note: this is prob different in places where public transportation is more common/acceptable.

― 3:16 (jjjusten), Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:17 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

I definitely do get this vibe when taking NJTRANSIT buses. could be the fact that NJ is basically a giant suburb designed to be traversed by in the convenience of your personal automobile.

I took public transit to school since the 5th grade in philly and never encountered anything like this, nor felt unsafe.

Note: this is prob different in places where public transportation is more common/acceptable.

definitely true in nyc, the buses are totally fine and pretty laid-back except at rush hours or on the busiest routes. a half-empty late-night bus is probably my favorite way to get around new york, if i'm not in a hurry. i've seen occasional hostility and weirdness, tho in general less on the buses than the subways. and buses don't get panhandlers the way the subways do.

(my kids love taking the bus because they like looking out the windows)

still amazing to me how america just can't get public transit. ugh car culture

*just get public transport right

We've got a lot of space to cover, man

other not awesome buses from my experience: philly

great thread, thanks forks for talking in a non-dickish way.

i learned a new racial slur today after seeing it on three separate websites referring to this incident :(

I wouldn't expect a bitter stigma about mass transit in SF or Oakland. As I experienced it, it was convenient and cheap and if I lived in SF proper I'd think owning a car was pretty dumb unless I was rich.

In DFW, there is an issue because it's so useless that no one uses it unless they absolutely have to (some exceptions could be made regarding special events or suburbanites riding the T into Dallas), but I'd genuinely be surprised at ppl in the few good metro systems of the US (SF, NY, Chicago, etc.) being class-angry.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/981/slamdancemashup0272pdi.jpg

i got banned from Noise Board for talking about the AC Transit Fight in a non-dickish way

SWEET FREEDUMB

lol @ purity of noise board defense

no you got banned for posting dancingbanana.gif, ban will be removed when i like you again

whether or not we agree on things whiney, your voicing your pleasure at me being banned undeservedly is not cool

let me know when you want to hug it out

I wouldn't expect a bitter stigma about mass transit in SF or Oakland. As I experienced it, it was convenient and cheap and if I lived in SF proper I'd think owning a car was pretty dumb unless I was rich.

in SF I'm not sure about a stigma itself, just that poor/crazies are a larger proportion of the busriding population because so many people who work in SF live outside of it. Some people may be bitter, but in my experience I just think that at least one of my coworkers encouters something weird/confrontational/annoying on the bus every few days due to the straight numbers.

I've only been to NY a couple of times but I feel like everyone uses the subways there and was ok with it. The more well-off can afford not to take buses in SF, and definitely in Oakland.

Maybe you just have to get used to your own city's version of crazy, but I love the NYC buses and yet was a little weirded out by Seattle buses with a lot of junkies/people in "the program" on them. People obviously tweaking, or talking kind of loudly about what services their shelter has etc...I'm glad the services are there for those people I guess but I wished the high-as-fuck ones could have found somewhere else to ride it out.

well, i watched this last night. pretty ugly, dunno how anybody finds it that funny.

we don't know the beginning of these two guys interacting, it looks like the black guy was flipping Mr. Motherfucker some racialized shit, something about "why's it a brother who's shining shoes"? Motherfucker tries to tell him it wasn't racial (whatever "it" was -- presumably something he said earlier), that "it coulda been a chinaman". neither guy seems to have much control of himself.

the girl taping the whole thing, the third moral actor we've got here, has a really weird and varying attitude to what's going on: egging it on, (jokingly?) supporting the black guy, trying to calm it down, "oh shit look at this" etc. what does she say at the end, "we got it!" like she knows it's a hot scoop she can put up on youtube for hits. guess she was right about that.

after it all happens Motherfucker seems genuinely freaked out by what he's done. he sounds like he's nearly in tears to me. like it sinks in that beating up a black man, even after being (legally) assaulted, seems immediately like an act that will stay with him for a while...

and no "ambalamps" isn't funny either. guy gets his face knocked in, he needs somebody to patch him up, all he's got is some dumb girl filming him, going "he leaking!"

i think the black guy had some kind of shoeshine kit on him? i have no idea where i picked that up tho.

?!

don't think so

"he leaking!"
"he leaking!"

as far as I can tell, there are multiple girls talking; the one filming is the one who consistently tells the black dude to calm down and one of her friends is doing the egging

also this: after it all happens Motherfucker seems genuinely freaked out by what he's done. he sounds like he's nearly in tears to me. like it sinks in that beating up a black man, even after being (legally) assaulted, seems immediately like an act that will stay with him for a while... eh not so much, not after watching the follow-on video

o i didn't see that.

remorse isn't what i'm talking about, i just think he looks like he knows he could be in deep shit. he's scared at least.

eh not so much, not after watching the follow-on video

especially after watching the follow on video, tbh.

great, can't wait to watch that then

it is the exact opposite of a traet, tbh

(I think it's also somewhere upthread)

whose bag does the girl taking the video take at the end? olde white guy or younger black guy? cos if it's the former i think they're not giving it back to him in the second clip and it's basically the most dickish behaviour out of the lot of them.

that's also covered in her statement video; it's the old white guy's and she alleges she left it on the seat next to her on the bus

felt worse for older dude after watching both clips, anyway.

sidenote/backtrack: but I'm pretty much always amazed at how many people drive cars in SF. It's a tiny city with no parking!

I live in SF but the only reason I bought a car was because we have a kid. otherwise I'd be public transit for life. I work downtown etc (anyone who DRIVES downtown is insane/stupid/not from here)

I knew a girl who drove between work and home for all of about 8 blocks, completely within the Mission. Madness.

I take the bus/BART to and from work, but when it comes to getting the toddler around to school/shopping etc., she's just not old enough to ride the bus everywhere.

imo sf needs congestion zone pricing and might be a place where it could actually happen politically

"I knew a girl who drove between work and home for all of about 8 blocks, completely within the Mission. Madness."

That's pathetic.

Sorry that was pretty dickish.

felt worse for older dude after watching both clips, anyway.

― quiz show flat-track bully (darraghmac), Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:35 AM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark

this post got me thinkin, "who do ~i~ feel worse for?" so i devised this little rubric in order to properly analyze the match-up and determine which of the two deserves my pity the most, based on the subjective awarding of "pity points"

AGE (10 points): 67 years old vs. what, 26? obviously non-motherfucker has an advantage here given that he is in the prime of his life, yet motherfucker possesses invaluable wisdom from a having lived a "seasoned" life. still, closer to natural death = always feel a little worse 4 u. NMF 3, MF 7

RACE (10 points): non-motherfucker is black and therefore faces challenges every day in Our American Society. however, motherfucker is white which means he also faces the challenge of being considered to be racist, he probably also suffers from "white guilt" which can be really emotionally draining, from what i've heard. this one's split evenly imo, 5 points each.

INTELLIGENCE (10 points): non-motherfucker sure was stupid to follow motherfucker up to the front of the bus like that, but then again motherfucker was stupid to bother engaging him in the stupid conversation right? NMF 8, MF 2 (remember, these points represent how much pity i feel for them based on their lack of intelligence, not their actual intellligence level)

FASHION SENSE (5 points): MF has a kewl beard and an awesome shirt featuring fun cussing. then again, plaid never really goes out of style does it. NMF 4, MF 1.

REPUTATION (5 points): ppl on the internet know about "Vietnam Tom" and "Epic Beard Man," which is cool. non-motherfucker is a virtual nobody and i feel bad about that. 5 points NMF, 0 points MF.

FIGHT SKILLS (10 points): clearly motherfucker has "thrown down" in a couple "scraps," evidence in favor of non-motherfucker's asswhoop aptitude not so clear. this is a clean sweep for poor NMF.

WHO GOT REPEATEDLY PUNCHED IN THE FACE HARD ENOUGH TO HAVE HIS BLOOD SPLATTERED EVERYWHERE (50 points): L.O.L., right?

so yeah i disagree, i feel 85 pities for non-motherfucker and 15 for motherfucker.

i have issues with your marking system tbh

I have 20 pities for anyone w/ that marking system, and also 3 pities for darraghmac because I sympathize with his view

"however, motherfucker is white which means he also faces the challenge of being considered to be racist"

Such a difficult to challenge to overcome.

I find it kind of odd that the white dude's personal info has been splashed all over the place but the black dude appears to remain anonymous...?

also kind of lolling at how no one can tell how old the black dude is

"I knew a girl who drove between work and home for all of about 8 blocks, completely within the Mission. Madness."

That's pathetic.

Actually, I think it's not only pathetic but downright bad. An eight block walk in the Mission is perfectly feasible from the POV of safety, time, and general well-being. Putting yourself through the ordeal of parking on both ends is foolish and conceivably someone from out of town needs the parking more than you do. I don't think saying that is particularly dickish.

iiiijjjj didn't have any pity for poor grant singer the other day

look you can weight the categories any way you like, remove/replace them at your will, whatever you want to do. the important thing is that you try and come to a rational, logical conclusion about which of the two men you feel most sorry for.

also kind of lolling at how no one can tell how old the black dude is

not my fault, motherfucker was considerate enough to scream about how old he was on camera, can't say the same for black dude of indeterminable age

i feel no pity for Grant Singer, that portugese girl was like 13 years old ffs

apparently grant singer is as real as the black guy who got his face punched in

totally agree with you guys re: 8-block drive. it really blew my mind when she told me about that.

REPUTATION (5 points): ppl on the internet know about "Vietnam Tom" and "Epic Beard Man," which is cool. non-motherfucker is a virtual nobody and i feel bad about that. 5 points NMF, 0 points MF.

I wonder if Vietnam Tom will have the internet celebrity staying power as Bubb Rubb. Also who wins in a fight between Vietnam Tom and Bubb Rubb?

i still think about bubb rubb anytime someone says "early in the morning"

bubb rubb was pre youtube anyway. he would have been a lot more famous in the post-youtube era.

That already

whether or not we agree on things whiney, your voicing your pleasure at me being banned undeservedly is not cool
--sir ilx-a-lot (cutty)

Ah, cutts. I wasn't cheering cuz u got banned, I was just gloating because I was determined "right" on a clusterfuck thread for once.

^^ http://www.freedomsledder.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/backpedal.gif

trying to lift your permaban but it only lets me ban you more

Well I honestly don't give a f if I can still post on NB, I just want you to know that I wasn't cheering your ban, think you are a valuable poster, harbor no ill will, and enjoyed our spirited argument

and in that spirit, baby i want u back

That already

Love you, cutty, no banana

One of the downsides of being a sub-board mod is that there's no way to revoke bans (IIRC). I revoked this one.

iiijjj, doesnt the black dude explicitly say he's 50? def feel way worse for him, the one that got his face beat in, for sure

am i a racist for having "ooooohh he leaking" stuck in my head all day

if whiney could let me know that would be nice

there is a funny meme jpeg regarding the he leaking but i ain't posting it, coz posted it on my facebook

Woh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWgtGdl7KQ

lol was just gonna post that

wtf I wonder if any of that stuff about the black guy is true

good publicity for stacy adams shoes

"i did 14 years for selling drugs and pimping"

!!!

i'm a senior so i'm entitled to carry a weapon

truly an epic bread man

i don't think epic beard man has access to that type of info about the black guy, but on the other hand maybe he has a computer in his mind

maybe the cops who gave him rides or whatever told him about the other dude's record?

the guy is completely bonkers and violent from his vietnam experience, felt kinda sad when he broke down about his mom

this whole story is like a sad cliff's note version of how america's military-industrial complex and years of institutionalized racism produce incredibly fucked up people; and the elite get to laugh at them all day from a safe distance

oh, americapaws

when you say the elite do you mean bloggers

youtube comments people

The e-l33t

time to look at those invisible backpacks, d00ds

do you mean that as a metaphor for life a la "up in the air"

my homeboys's fb update from two minutes ago.

..just rode the bus home with Epic Beard Man. He is officially, a ghetto celebrity. A full bus in which me and Epic Beard Man were the only white folks - cheered loudly and long for the man of the hour. He took many pictures with folks and gave out candy bars. I cannot maek this up.

xxx.Are you serious?

response: Yes. It was kind of beautiful. The working class loves their new Santa Claus. I'll put up the photographic proof in a sec.

this started in tears, it's continuing in tears, it'll end in tears

this though, this is the real next level insanity to me
http://amberlamps.co.cc/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8lQaqdOfE

on AC transit yesterday there was this dude rolling the hugest joint it was unreal

when is obama gonna invite these two over for a beer

here's interviews with both guys and neither of their stories really match up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1r3dhMUO4

rashomon: ac transit

Seemed likely to me to begin with that Tom had started shit with him. I guess we can never really know, but 1) Tom's story never made sense to me and 2) in interviews Tom has significantly embellished the story, adding a knife, a friend "Bob" who is not visible in the story, 3) a criminal record (for Michael) that he couldn't possible know about, etc.

when is amappy girl coming forward?

I should know better than to look at youtube comments here but I do and it's so depressing and I'm like...seriously. long-term strategies because obviously nothing as ingrained as American racism is gonna get an ABC Afterschool Special-type cure, but is there anything to be done? is the answer just "lots and lots of people are assholes and that's always going to be true" & there's no way to, like, fix it so fewer people grow up racist?

serious q., dumb one too I know, not news that as far as practical shit goes I am a child but this shit has been buggin me since I was very young and I get all despairing abt it.

integrated schools, positive images of people of color in the media, strong social welfare programs

waiting for a fresh start on the moon myself

aren't most youtube commenters 15 year-olds looking to get a rise out of people on the internet? admittedly yeah there are still loads of racist shits out there but it strikes me that youtube is a format that panders towards anonymous show-off idiocy

integrated schools, positive images of people of color in the media, strong social welfare programs

― max, Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:41 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also a time machine to use to prevent slavery

also a time machine to use to prevent slavery

I can't tell if your other comment is just making fun of classic liberal strategies for this but I mean...the way people are saluting this fuckin beardo dude on the street does make me think "we are fucked" which I guess I already know but sometimes I just can't stand it

is the answer just "lots and lots of people are assholes and that's always going to be true

to an extent, yeah- i think desensitising yrself (and others if possible) to the behaviour of assholes is a big step.

someone tell the democrats this, btw, it would ba a BIG help towards channeling their energies in the right way

See, I don't know if that is the answer. Because desensitizing yourself to assholes means not standing up to them and letting them run rampant with their negative bullshit opinions, which can be pretty dangerous too.

virus with shoes etc. etc.

yeah jon, but it also means not paying attention or letting it change your behaviour, which is more positive and more productive in the long run.

I think I see what you mean, and I do agree. I think I was coming more from a place of being around people who don't even bother to respond to someone that spouts racist bullshit. I don't think shutting up and ignoring them is always the best approach.

I can't tell if your other comment is just making fun of classic liberal strategies for this but I mean...the way people are saluting this fuckin beardo dude on the street does make me think "we are fucked" which I guess I already know but sometimes I just can't stand it

― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:50 AM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no i was being 100% serious. i think those three things should be the cornerstone of any attempt to deal with racism in this country.

not shutting up and ignoring them in a passive way, just not concentrating on them full stop. there's times and places to challenge people like that (as individuals and groups) but not constantly, because that's when 'asshole as a spoiler tactic' becomes a success.

Oh exactly, I was referring to people who just kind of shut down and ALWAYS prefer to ignore it and let it go. There are appropriate times where racists assholes should and need to be challenged. But you are correct, there are times where that does more harm than good.

http://www.indiemerchstore.com/drxmclothing/item/7759/

"Be an American hero just like the EPIC BEARD MAN!"

*vomits in mouth a little*

i do like how the racist asshole army has chosen powder blue though

prussian blue