ongoing racist bullshit in arizona thread

We need one of these.

Altered mural fuels racial debate in Arizona

By Dennis Wagner, USA TODAY
A group of artists has been asked to lighten the faces of children depicted in a large public mural at a Prescott, Ariz., school.

The project's leader says he was ordered to lighten the skin tone after complaints about the children's ethnicity. But the school's principal says the request was only to fix shading and had nothing to do with political pressure.

The "Go on Green" mural, which covers two walls outside Miller Valley Elementary School, was designed to advertise a campaign for environmentally friendly transportation. It features portraits of four children, with a Hispanic boy as the dominant figure.

R.E. Wall, director of Prescott's Downtown Mural Project, said he and other artists were subjected to slurs from motorists as they worked on the painting at one of the town's most prominent intersections.

"We consistently, for two months, had people shouting racial slander from their cars," Wall said. "We had children painting with us, and here come these yells of (epithet for Blacks) and (epithet for Hispanics)."

Wall said school Principal Jeff Lane pressed him to make the children's faces appear happier and brighter.

"It is being lightened because of the controversy," Wall said, adding that "they want it to look like the children are coming into light."

Lane said that he received only three complaints about the mural and that his request for a touch-up had nothing to do with political pressure. "We asked them to fix the shading on the children's faces," he said. "We were looking at it from an artistic view. Nothing at all to do with race."

City Councilman Steve Blair spearheaded a public campaign on his talk show at Prescott radio station KYCA-AM (1490) to remove the mural.

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"

Blair could not be reached for comment Thursday. In audio archives of his radio show, Blair discusses the mural. He insists the controversy isn't about racism but says the mural is intended to create racial controversy where none existed before.

"Personally, I think it's pathetic," he says. "You have changed the ambience of that building to excite some kind of diversity power struggle that doesn't exist in Prescott, Arizona. And I'm ashamed of that."

Faces in the mural were drawn from photographs of children enrolled at Miller Valley, a K-5 school with 380 students and the highest ethnic mix of any school in Prescott. Wall said thousands of town residents volunteered or donated to the project, the fourth in a series of community murals painted by a group of artists known as the "Mural Mice."

The public art, funded by a $5,000 state grant through the Prescott Alternative Transportation Center, was selected by school students and faculty.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-06-04-altered-mural-arizona-race-debate_N.htm

City Councilman Steve Blair spearheaded a public campaign on his talk show at Prescott radio station KYCA-AM (1490) to remove the mural.

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"

Blair could not be reached for comment Thursday. In audio archives of his radio show, Blair discusses the mural. He insists the controversy isn't about racism but says the mural is intended to create racial controversy where none existed before.

ASLSL;DLFKPEFDSFMIOSO

oh ffs

sayin

i can't even comprehend that this is happening... it like makes me angry beyond angry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijeXGv9QLRc

fwiw:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/09/2010-06-09_prescott_city_councilman_steve_blair_loses_radio_host_job_over_bashing_minoritie.html

Prescott City Councilman Steve Blair loses radio host job over bashing minorities in school mural

An Arizona city has seen the light.

A Prescott politician who mocked an elementary school mural featuring minority students was axed from his radio talk-show and now faces a mounting recall campaign.

Last week, artists who painted the mural that promoted green transportation were told by the school to lighten the children's faces. Tuesday, they were told to restore the original tones of the faces, the Arizona Republic reports.

"I am not a racist individual," City Councilman Steve Blair said on a his radio show last month, "but I will tell you depicting a black guy in the middle of that mural, based upon who's President of the United States today and based upon the history of this community, when I grew up we had four black families - who I have been very good friends with for years - to depict the biggest picture on that building as a black person, I would have to ask the question, 'Why?'"

He added that diversity is a word "I can't stand."

A Hispanic boy is the most prominent figure in the mural.

The controversy raged as the state deals with praise and anger over its harsh immigration law.

Blair, Tuesday, denied he's racist and declared his intention to remain in office.

In a news conference, the politician complained the artists and school officials should have educated him on the meaning of the "Go on Green" mural.

"That might have helped clue me," Blair said. "They assumed because I asked the question [about the painting] that I was a racist and a bigot."

The owner of the radio station dumped Blair because his words "could be interpreted as racist." However, he said Blair wasn't racist, just someone who "puts his foot in his mouth."

Meanwhile, some Prescott residents want Blair, who's served for six years, out of office, too.

Barbara Braswell, who is mother to four children of mixed races, said she needs more than 2,800 signatures to get a recall election on this November's ballot.

Miller Valley Elementary School Principal Jeff Lane apologized for directing artists to lighten the skin color of the children.

"They [the artists] are going back to the way this was originally," Lane said.

Ebert on the mural & broader thoughts about race in general

the first report is really elegantly damning, but i suppose the facts speak 4 themselves

I am kind of sad to be moving to AZ for grad school when all this bullshit is happening, but also a tiny bit relieved, in that at least I'll be able to vote against some of this shit, or have more of a political voice bcz of being a citizen there.

Can this Steve Blair guy put together a coherent sentence?

ppl h8

"I am not a racist individual," City Councilman Steve Blair said on a his radio show last month, "but...

when I grew up we had four black families - who I have been very good friends with for years

classic signposts or what

Man, Ebert these days just has a writing voice like ... I dunno. He's come out into this sort of plainspoken-Midwestern hard-won-wisdom voice where even when he's making a pretty conventional point, it gets me in the gut.

xpost - the best part of that is the unfortunate wording of "we had four black families"

ebert's always been a very -- very -- gifted writer.

I somehow never knew that Roger Ebert was such an all-around wonderful person, and not just "the movie guy", until like 6 months back. But he has quickly become a favorite.

iirc, his movie criticism tends to veer into broader cultural criticism. he isn't frank rich, in that respect (i.e., made the jump from entertainment criticism to opinion pieces), but he's no stranger to addressing broader social issues.

Eberts the man!

He is a dude (and apparently dated my step-aunt in the '70s).

Yeah. And I had no idea he was in SDS!

(that stands for Suzy's Date Society)

that ebert piece is very affecting.

watching the youtube of that radio host kinda made me sick.

"Personally, I think it's pathetic," he says. "You have changed the ambience of that building to excite some kind of diversity power struggle that doesn't exist in Prescott, Arizona. And I'm ashamed of that."

worst line of all imo

some kind of diversity power struggle that doesn't exist in Prescott, Arizona

some kind of
diversity power
struggle
that
doesn't exist
in
Prescott, Arizona

because having non-white people in a painting is obviously an attempt to create a "diversity power struggle"

ffs

Damn and now border patrol agents are killing Mexicans for throwing rocks over the border!!

T.J. Bonner, president of the union representing Border Patrol agents, said rock throwing aimed at Border Patrol agents is common and capable of causing serious injury.
"It is a deadly force encounter, one that justifies the use of deadly force," Bonner said.

This country is fucking embarrassing sometimes.

if you don't like it, leave, asshole

just kidding, this country fuckin blows

DUH IM AMERICA I DONT WANT SOCIALIST DOCTORS BECAUSE THE TEEVEE MAN TOLD ME SO BUT LET ME KEEP MY MEDICAID DERP DERP DERP

now i'm not a racist individual

but seriously guys....

black people

is basically what he said

and then the classic "some of my best friends are black"

And he can't tell the diff btwn black people and mexican people. WTG guy.

"some of the people I have are black friends"

"'friends'"

I am no racist, but the artist KNEW those kids were Mud Peoples when he threw them all up in our lillywhite faces.

man ebert is really a hero

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/arpaio_backs_az_state_treasurers_plan_to_create_te.php

Dean Martin, Arizona state treasurer and Republican candidate for governor, is pushing a plan that would create "tent cities" to house convicted illegal immigrants, modeled after notorious anti-immigration Sheriff Joe Arpaio's set-up in his own Maricopa County.

In an interview with TPM, Martin described how the tent cities would provide "inexpensive temporary housing" that could save the state enough money to deploy troops down to the border.

Has anybody died of heatstroke in Arpaio's tent city? Seems inevitable.

https://coreycr0708.wikispaces.com/file/view/Order_9066.jpg/34427571/Order_9066.jpg

Arpaio needs to go to fucking jail like YESTERDAY. Hate him so goddamn much.

Real talk.

It's like God decided just for laughs to let a James Ellroy character exist IRL and gave him teflon skin just for good measure.

http://thenationalrazor.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/deanmartin1.jpg

hi there. i'm state treasurer dean martin, and i'm running for governor.

Reminds me of the vampire-hating preacher in True Blood.

reminds me of ricky gervais!

his name is sweet lips

aw ebert

Yeah, it isn't racist, but still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTwfedn9RA

oh, he's reluctant to compare himself to george washington or abraham lincoln.

good to know.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/25/arizona.immigrants.drugs/index.html?hpt=T1

Well, we all know that the majority of the people that are coming to Arizona and trespassing are now becoming drug mules," Brewer said. "They're coming across our borders in huge numbers. The drug cartels have taken control of the immigration.

"So they are criminals. They're breaking the law when they are trespassing and they're criminals when they pack the marijuana and the drugs on their backs."

wow! it would be so exciting if this was true. unfortunately she doesn't seem able to produce any sort of source, proof, evidence, factual basis, anything. which is surprising since you'd think arizona law enforcement would be able to produce all kinds of statistics given the proportion of the budget most arizona municipalities throw in. she's an idiot. she wasn't even elected. she's a godsend to the republicans in arizona.

lol at this

Arizona republican primary is such a race to the bottom.

Persecution against Japanese was against legal immigrants btw.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/az-gop-mailer-dem-is-letting-illegal-immigrants-shoot-up-our-neighborhoods.php

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/yuma-az-mailer-original.jpg
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/yuma-az-mailer2-original.jpg

mad photoshop skills

It is so weird, there's all these totally homemade looking signs on many corners in town saying that some or another politician opposes SB 1070. For me that's a bonus but I'm pretty sure these signs are saying it is a reason to not vote for that politician.

Also, naturally I read these signs as saying "GIFFORDS OPPOSES SUGGEST BAN 1070."

http://arizonaspolitics.blogspot.com/2010/10/following-money-in-arizonas-politics_13.html

why do they need to make a separate org to fund these things?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

Last year, two men showed up in Benson, Ariz., a small desert town 60 miles from the Mexico border, offering a deal.

Glenn Nichols, the Benson city manager, remembers the pitch.

"The gentleman that's the main thrust of this thing has a huge turquoise ring on his finger," Nichols said. "He's a great big huge guy and I equated him to a car salesman."

What he was selling was a prison for women and children who were illegal immigrants.

"They talk [about] how positive this was going to be for the community," Nichols said, "the amount of money that we would realize from each prisoner on a daily rate."

But Nichols wasn't buying. He asked them how would they possibly keep a prison full for years — decades even — with illegal immigrants?

"They talked like they didn't have any doubt they could fill it," Nichols said.

That's because prison companies like this one had a plan — a new business model to lock up illegal immigrants. And the plan became Arizona's immigration law.

unbelievable

its like terminator level dystopia

WTF is wrong with Arizona

People behind a new church in Phoenix are trying to stay ahead of any potential controversy or hate that accompanied the announcement of a proposed mosque near Ground Zero in New York City.

A new dome-like structure near 19th Avenue along Interstate 10 in Phoenix is the Light of the World church, a nondenominational Christian church hoping to modernize traditional worship services, a church spokesman said

Since the distinctive dome shape went up, church leaders said they have received phone calls from concerned neighbors who've mistaken the building for an Islamic mosque.

On Wednesday, church officials hung a sign reminding people they're Christian congregation. "We're trying to let people know that we're Christian and our churches are modern," said Uzieo Martinez.

They better be careful, pretty soon people will start thinking they're fundamentalists as well!

Whoa wtf at this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

and how did I not hear about it

Yeah, posted that before.

Scary.

u mosque, doggie?

so fed up with AZ. my (mexican) momz moved last year from phoenix up to prescott which is a pinch more lax (tho still the site of that stupid mural fiasco a few months back) and like of all the things for her to worry about its citizen papers in order?

also, everything else that gd state does wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh8GBl3Jnac&feature=player_embedded#!

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/02/arizona_introduces_omnibus_immigration_bill.html

*foams from mouth*

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/22/arizona.double.killing/index.html?hpt=T2

It is difficult for me, as someone who is on balance more against the death penalty than for it due to the nature of our judicial system, to feel like this verdict was unwarranted.

That woman lived in my hometown and has a truly bizarre saga. http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090222/NEWS01/702229930

props to that arizona jury.

no

sweet christ. that link, dan.

god what a heartbreaking little detail:

Posing as border patrol and law enforcement officers, Forde, Gaxiola and Bush, whom prosecutors identified as the gunman, showed up at the Flores home after midnight, several hours after the family had returned from a shopping trip in Tucson to buy shoes for their daughter for summer camp.

She sounds really crazy.

That said I'm still against the death penalty.

yeah jesus that is terrfying

I'm still not for the death penalty. LWP would be fine, though.

Well, as I said I am not for the death penalty either. This case is testing me.

life with electrodes applied sounds right

lol dan lots of people do lots of really horrible shit, shouldn't really affect your opinion on whether the death penalty is OK or not

it helps determine in individual circumstances imo

i mean i dont wanna turn this into a death penalty thread or whatever, but no not really

Once inside, the gunman shot Flores in the chest and Gonzales in the leg. Brisenia (a 9-year old girl who was sleeping on her couch with her puppy before the group banged on the door after midnight) was later shot as she pleaded for her life.

the paranthetical is mine. this case is testing my conflicted feelings for the death-penalty, too.

i don't either, but yes totally xp

Not rah rah death penalty either, but if it represents the strictest punishment available then I'm for that message being sent.

what is the opposite of splitting hairs because that's what you just did

using conditioner?

lol "sending a message" to deter crimes you really really don't like = you're for the death penalty

also to make really bad people die, don't forget

i am against the death penalty, in this instance.

the woman maintains her innocence (i think she does anyway, from earlier stories i've read) and that should be enough not to kill her, even though her guilt has been proven. it's always possible something has gone very wrong in prosecuting this crime. i don't think so, based on what i've read, but the possibility is always there.

as far as "sending a message", i wonder if keeping creepy shitbags like this alive forever is a better example than letting them be executed and forgotten. probably about even tbh (ie not much of an example either way...)

As someone who is extremely pro-death penalty, this verdict is comforting.

But fuck Arizona anyway for all that anti-immigration bullshit. That's so insane.

the woman maintains her innocence ........ and that should be enough not to kill her

kind of a handy condition, that?

yup

u dont gotta go to hell but you gotta get the fuck up out of here

but if it represents the strictest punishment available

LWP is worse in my opinion.

Agreed.

this will really send a message when she's finally executed in 2025

haha otm

death is life's greatest reward

i wonder if anyone even believes the deterrence argument anymore, its like, i think there's a big enough market for vengeance in this country that we can drop the facade and keep on rolling

well obviously millions of people do - as for ilx i sort of stopped being surprised at posters espousing right-wing positions after the last gun control clusterfuck

yeah, i'd guess the motivation for most capital-punishment supporters is revenge/justice, not deterrence.

ilx is too right wing or you kevin? !

incidentally, people -- with some justification -- complained that jarred loughner's behavior shouldn't be blamed on right-wing rhetoric because loughner was crazy. it seems to me there should be a loughner-level outcry about this crime, tho, since the accused has now been convicted (so not crazy) and the line drawn between her actions and right-wing rhetoric seems much more clear.

eh, sorry; maybe that's a stretch.

i wonder if anyone even believes the deterrence argument anymore, its like, i think there's a big enough market for vengeance in this country that we can drop the facade and keep on rolling

the deterrence thing is stupid... for me, the best pro-death penalty argument is more along the lines of 'this person is too far gone to ever be redeemed, and needs to be put down for the sake of humanity'. I'm not going to try to pain that viewpoint as an enlightened one - I am basically a misanthrope who struggles with overwhelming anger/hatred. If I had more faith in the judicial system, I would be hugely pro, but as it is I am sort of pro in my gut, and against in my brain.

k3v - it is pretty obvious by your "distort then mock" tactic that any kind of discussion is pointless so I am gonna check out.

ha don't want to go on record otming it but i was trying to put what rockapads said into words just now. killing killers of 9 yos just seems right to me -- then there's redemption, injustice system, wrongful convictions et al that are real real things and they are there but i can't lie and say they inform my reaction to things like this in a meaningful way.
having not 'thought it through' in the way i think one is supposed to i at least do everyone the courtesy of not being involved with the legal system.
sry kev
i believe in the civilian right to bear arms also, shakier ground calling that a 'right-wing' position but i'll take that bullet. ahem

k3vin why are you being a dick - I know what it's like to want to kill somebody because I'm angry at them - so does everybody except Jesus & Gandhi - I know what it's like to feel like "man this person who did a terrible thing deserves to die for it, that's how terrible it was" - every fuckin human on the planet knows that feeling - I'm still against the death penalty - everybody's felt "fuckin', this asshole should die for what he did" - if you can't cop to that - well, you should be able to because it's really not complicated - basic human feeling imo

tbf to kevin some of us on the pro side are yr actual typically contemptible reactionary kneejerkin neanderthals, just sayin

then there's redemption

You can't possibly be redeemed for killing someone. I don't care what Jesus says.

how bout gandhi?

If neither of those bucks' word is good enough for ya, i doubt there's an ilxor is gonna manage to turn you on this un

yeah sorry i'm not being a dick though - i'm aware that people have irrational emotional responses to things - we all do, it's called being human. you should be able to reject those feelings though the morning after - anyone who thinks another human being who poses no imminent threat to anyone should be "put down for the sake of humanity" - by virtue of being incarcerated - is just, i dunno. killing is wrong

bnw i'd be open to discussing in an adult manner where you think i distorted what you said

k3v otm

and aero look i know you agree with me and everything and you're just practicing your super-empathic M.O. which generally is my worldview as well, so spare me dogg, i get you

"by virtue of being incarcerated" is supposed to clarify the "imminent threat" part in my first post, if that wasn't clear

but I mean from a practical standpoint "I can totally dig where you're coming from" will advance the anti-death penalty position better than "no fuck you death penalty is bullshit" - you're dealing with a pretty basic human response here; a default human response. calling people "right wing" because they say "I don't know, I can sympathize with the pro-death-penalty position here" = being a dick imo, totally 1) unproductive 2) unnecessary 3) bein' a dick

and I mean I gotta play the dick card here, I'm kind of a dick, if I notice you're being a dick you can take that as expert testimony

I cant help feeling that a testicle joke went begging there somewhere at the end.

sorry Trayce, yr right yr right, let me revise that last sentence

and I mean I gotta play the dick card here, I'm kind of a dick, if I notice you're being a dick you can take that as expert testimony, also, my balls

hahahahaha

does saying "props to that jury" = "i don't know, i can sympathize with the pro-death penalty position here" ??

http://www.richardcardcamera.com/

fully get and share (if not necessarily approve of) the human impulse for vengeance/"justice" but still don't think this is a business the state should be in.

this woman is full-on like Ethics Textbook 101 "but what if someone did something REALLY BAD" thought problem level though.

i've seen worse - the petit family murder was a huge deal around here and stirred up a lot of debate about the death penalty - our former governor cited the case when vetoing a legislatively-approved death penalty ban. to me the nature of the crime doesn't matter a bit in whether i think it's ok to kill another person, for others i guess it does

p sure the death penalty krew dont think 'it's ok to kill someone' either, hence cranking up the stakes involved if you do it and get caught.

I'm sorry my earlier posts weren't that coherent, but Kevin really pisses me off by framing the death penalty as a "right-wing" issue. More than 50% of Democrats support the death penalty. It's just not a right-wing issue. It's an everybody issue. I think that the death penalty is in severe need of reform, but that shouldn't lead a person to come out completely against it.

But anyway, this is not a death penalty thread, so we should let it get back on topic. If anybody wants me, I'll be over on ILM trying to convince people than Guns'n'Roses has greater artistic merit than Iron Maiden.

Just rest easy that, given the state of racial politics and the justice system in Arizona, she's likely to be locked up with an awful lot of Hispanics.

to me the nature of the crime doesn't matter a bit in whether i think it's ok to kill another person, for others i guess it does

^^^ this is being a dick. People are talking about understanding the sentiments of others, not "thinking it's ok to kill another person." you understand that, but have chosen to act like a dick instead. as a guy who simply by virtue of advancing age has probably opposed the death penalty 20 years longer than you've been alive, I resent you making people who oppose the death penalty look like dicks.

also, my balls

I was just going to quote that and post themoreyouknow.jpg but your approach is probably more productive.

and by "that" I mean "also, my balls"

I'll be over on ILM trying to convince people than Guns'n'Roses has greater artistic merit than Iron Maiden.
― kkvgz, Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:53 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark suggest death penalty permalink

Also, ceding ground to people who are right-authoritarian on matters of 'some crimes are too horrible to allow the perp to live' is the lazy person's way to cheapen life generally, and misses out valuable opportunities to point out r-a inconsistencies on sanctity of all human life re. family planning issues.

this makes me wonder, what is the industrious person's way to cheapen life

I assume it involves Powerpoint

Powerpoint, guns, ownership of health insurance company...

im anti-death penalty but at the same time in a perfect world i dont really have any problem with the state executing Proven Monsters like timothy mcveigh (its a more humane fate than a lifetime in our barbaric prison system anyway) - its more just that its impossible to have a system where innocent people don't also get merc'd, which seems unacceptable 2 me

^^^ this is pretty much how I feel

Your life is as valuable as how you choose to live it; you don't get to choose the circumstances of your life but you do get to choose how you react to them. You also have to live with the consequences of those actions.

I still wish we did not have the death penalty, but I am not particularly sorry or remorseful about this woman receiving it.

I understand wanting to kill people.

I understand why we have punishments for murder.

I know justice is imperfect and that, to attempt to perfect it and at the same time, treat human life and dignity with the respect they deserve, is very, very expensive - far more expensive than lifetime incarceration.

I am uncomfortable with encouraging victims to steep in their natural desire for revenge, to stay stuck and not transcend a moment of evil.

That said, what better revenge than to deny a murderer all the pomp of execution and let them rot in prison until they die?

The lady's a trainwreck of human being but I don't argue my position about the death penalty out of specifics but out of a bigger and hopefully more dispassionate picture.

Also, prison food.

I do think the most rational answer to "why should the taxpayers pay for [x]" is "because we live in an advanced society".

LWP is a better solution; I'm still not upset about this woman receiving the death penalty. It is possible to not be upset by something you don't support, particularly when you are looking at cherry-picked examples rather than overarching generalities.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over her. I may wake up momentarily terrified at the thought of the jury, though.

I do think the most rational answer to "why should the taxpayers pay for "x" is "because we live in an advanced society".

Really? Death penalty really dates from pre-prison days when cutting your hand off or blinding you wasn't quite enough. Saying that spending shitloads of money in the present age to kill savage humans is 'advanced' is risible.

By all means, draw and quarter them, publicly eviscerate them, whatever, but let us not pretend it has anything to do with advanced civilization, justice or the encouragement of peaceful society.

Er, I think the "x" in that quote is supposed to represent "housing and feeding a murderer for the rest of his or her life."

...

that was an anti- argument

xp: exactly

I'm sorry my earlier posts weren't that coherent, but Kevin really pisses me off by framing the death penalty as a "right-wing" issue. More than 50% of Democrats support the death penalty. It's just not a right-wing issue. It's an everybody issue. I think that the death penalty is in severe need of reform, but that shouldn't lead a person to come out completely against it.

if the death penalty isn't a right-wing issue idk what is. that a majority of democrats support it doesn't reveal anything except 'there aren't very many left-wing democrats in america', which, I mean, duh.

It would be kind of amusing from afar to turn America into a "violence as a first resort" society where all crimes were punishable by death, just to see how long that would last.

hey you have to live (ie die) with the consequences of your actions

iatee otm

i think its clear that determining who is and isnt right wing is the most important thing we can discuss

Er, I think the "x" in that quote is supposed to represent "housing and feeding a murderer for the rest of his or her life."

Clearly I'm an idiot. I hope that's not punsihable by death in iatee's dystopia but maybe it should be.

I have no compunction, however, about arguing against the death penalty (not to mention extremely punitive and very often racist) incarceration policies on the basis of expense. It's fun to watch right-wingers writhe trying to justify inefficient and expensive, big-government policies like the war on drugs while supporting those pesky unions (prison guards) that so distort the body politic.

k3v otm

^^^cosign

death penalty is always wrong and redemption is a real thing

oh good, we are at the point of the argument where we post meaningless compound sentences! my turn:

country music is always terrible and lynching is a real thing

lol fair enough

except that country music is awesome

(sez the guy currently listening to Merle Haggard)

are you saying lynching isn't real??

david lynching is in-between reality and dreamstate

Pima County <3

ha ha - wow!

Clearly I'm an idiot. I hope that's not punsihable by death in iatee's dystopia but maybe it should be.

huh?? what is iatee's dystopia??

he conflated your post with my joke post re: all crimes being punishable by death

haha okay that makes more sense

ftr my dystopia: oklahoma city, if it were filled with italian people

Poor Italian people...

what a relief!

http://www.kpho.com/news/27272012/detail.html

i mean, what

Steven Seagal, Sheriff Raid Valley Home In Tank

PHOENIX -- Sheriff Joe Arpaio rolled out the tanks to take down a man suspected of cockfighting.

West Valley residents in the neighborhood are crying foul after armored vehicles, including a tank, rolled into their neighborhood to make the bust.

* VIDEO: Steven Seagal, Sheriff Raid Valley Home In Tank

Neighbor Debra Ross was so worried she called 911 and went outside where a nearby home had its windows blown out, was crawling with dozens of SWAT members in full gear, armored vehicles and a bomb robot.

“When the tank came in and pushed the wall over and you see what's in there, and all it is, is a bunch of chickens,” Ross said.

In a massive show of force on Monday, the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office executed a search warrant and arrested the homeowner, Jesus Llovera, on charges of suspected cockfighting.

Llovera was alone in the house at the time of the arrest, and he was unarmed.

“I think taxpayers should be shocked,” said Robert Campus, Llovera’s attorney. Campus said he believes the operation costs tens of thousands of dollars.

Deputies had no probable cause to believe Llovera was armed or dangerous, according to Campus.

Campus said he believes the entire scene was basically a stage, to help actor Steven Seagal’s TV show, “Lawman.”

Seagal was riding in the tank.

The Sheriff’s Department has entered into a contract with Seagal and part of that contract gives Seagal carte blanche to go along with the sheriff as he arrests people.

Thousands of dollars in damages were made to the property and 115 birds were euthanized on the spot.

Llovera was convicted of a misdemeanor last year of attending a cockfight and has no history of owning weapons.

Yet the sheriff’s office said they had reasons to believe Llovera might be armed.

“We're going to err on the side of caution. We're going to make sure that we have the appropriate amount of force in case we do run into anything like that,” said Sgt. Jesse Spurgin.

this isn't racist exactly but it is just wtf

does the AZ legislation ever, like, do their jobs and pass laws that are actually legal and can be implemented

lol?

we're doomed

ohhhh my goddddd

wow i just

though i bet among conservative AZers the real feeling is "illegal except in the case of rape, incest, or if your girl gets knocked up by a black or mexican or something".

and the principled life people wanted to make a stand against that. very dredd-scott-code-word kind of thinking...

It's not even that the thing being legislated against IS A THING! It's just to make doctors need ANOTHER piece of legal paperwork done before the procedure ca proceed. And provide extra basis for arrest and persecution, if that turns out to be convenient for anyone.

*can proceed

lol'ing at the potential responses to any "Reason for abortion" form fields

"baby daddy is a Republican"

"my vagina was drunk"

good god that state

It would be kind of amazing if this all ended up in Baja Arizona actually happening

That a woman should have to state a reason for abortion to anyone aside from herself, her healthcare provider, or her god (or w/e) is the most insidious idea here, and likely the wedge they're trying to drive.

Shit is private, full stop.

god hates abortions tho next argument please

oh shit :(

"to piss off Jesus"

"I'm afraid my baby might be Chinese."

gosh didn't see this coming

lol idiots

Yep. Arizona state legislature is basically paid to write political fan-fiction and waste the time of the courts, as far as I can tell. They certainly haven't solved any of the states' deep financial problems, or our water issues, or all the dirty as fuck old coal plants we should fix up/replace...

But hey, if its offensively divisive immigration laws you want, they gotcha covered!

I thought yall lived in NM?

Arizona state legislature is basically paid to write political fan-fiction and waste the time of the courts, as far as I can tell.

well put

xpost we used to!

Arizona state legislature is basically paid to write political fan-fiction and waste the time of the courts, as far as I can tell.

^^this is so perfectly put

oh lol shakes

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/us/16immigration.html?_r=1&ref=us

Georgia, too.

if the GOP really hates trial lawyers so much they should stop handing them such easy work

lololol

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/09/05/arizona-to-charge-people-to-see-incarcerated-family-or-friends/

Not racist per se, but definitely.

oops, should read "but definitely bullshit"

are you fucking kidding me, that is monstrous. want to start a fund to pay for people who just want to visit their loved ones but don't have 25 bucks to spare. can't fucking believe what assholes people are.

like I mean I know ppl are assholes but even still they can come up with some "did you for sure know how big an asshole I was?" shit

didn't think they could top rotten bologna sandwiches in their pink underwear desert tent quarters, but here it is, topped

well tbf remember when jesus said "i was in prison, and you paid $25 and visited me"

it really feels like nothing could spike my sympathy for prisoners more than the succession of bs legislation, & the erosion of prisoner rights, over the last year

ongoing racist bullshit in arizona alabama thread

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/07/339067/alabama-illegal-to-live-undocumented/

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/water-image-268x300.jpg

At least one utility company in Alabama posted a sign informing its customers that a section of Alabama’s extreme anti-immigrant law prohibits them from providing water service to undocumented immigrants. According to the sign at Allgood Water Works in Blount County, Alabama, customers must have “an Alabama driver’s license or an Alabama picture ID card on file” by the date that the immigration law went into effect; otherwise, they risked losing their water service.

Sadly, the picture for Alabama’s immigrants is even grimmer than this sign suggests. Indeed, under one provision of the state’s immigration law, HB 56, it is a felony for an undocumented immigrant to even attempt to do business with Alabama’s state-run water agencies:

An alien not lawfully present in the United States shall not enter into or attempt to enter into a business transaction with the state or a political subdivision of the state and no person shall enter into a business transaction or attempt to enter into a business transaction on behalf of an alien not lawfully present in the United States. [...]

A violation of this section is a Class C felony.

In Alabama, Class C felonies are punishable by up to ten years in prison — meaning that undocumented people in Alabama can now be locked up for an entire decade if they attempt to take a bath in their own home.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/06/337764/sen-sessions-its-not-sad-immigrant-children-too-scared-to-go-to-school-its-sad-theyre-here-in-the-first-place/

Sen. Sessions: It’s Not Sad That Immigrant Children Are Too Scared To Go To School, It’s Sad They’re Even Here

By Marie Diamond on Oct 6, 2011 at 12:20 pm

As ThinkProgress has been reporting, the decision of a federal judge last week to allow Alabama’s harshest-in-the-nation immigration law to go into effect has had heartbreaking consequences. Hispanic families have been fleeing Alabama in droves and thousands of children have been too terrorized to show up for school. The law allows police to racially profile and pull over anyone they suspect might be in the country illegally, and blatantly violates children’s constitutional right to an education by forcing schools to check students’ immigration status before they can be enrolled.

But Republican lawmakers who supported the measure have been remarkably short on compassion for immigrant families that have been torn apart and other residents who have been deeply affected by their exodus. During an interview on conservative radio host Laura Ingraham’s show, Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions (R) said Hispanic children being too afraid to go to school is merely the just consequence of immigrants’ unlawful decision to live in the state:

INGRAHAM: Do you think it’s bad all these Hispanic kids have disappeared from the schools? Do you think that’s a bad thing?

SESSIONS: All I would just say to you is that it’s a sad thing that we’ve allowed a situation to occur for decades that large numbers of people are in the country illegal and it’s going to have unpleasant, unfortunate consequences.

Sessions said he “couldn’t agree more” with Ingraham when she called this a “sob story” that simply proves that “enforcement of the law works!” It’s a good thing, Ingraham suggested, that immigrants are responding by leaving Alabama. “This is a rational response,” Sessions remarked, arguing that “one of the sad consequences of illegal immigration is families can be hurt in the process” — indicating that families brought the government’s harsh crackdown on themselves by seeking a better life here.

there's no "constitutional right to an education" btw, though there should be, but holy shit

oh there is in alabama apparently, nvm me

anyway denying people access to running water? who are paying for it anyway? what the fuck

this is fucking shameful, is what it is.

Oh wow, my old senator is still an absolute cunt? This is my surprised face. I am surprised.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/us/politics/judge-finds-manipulation-in-recall-vote-in-arizona.html

bizarre pullquote:

The judge also said Ms. Cortes’s case did not resemble the subterfuge displayed in “The Distinguished Gentleman,” a movie in which the actor Eddie Murphy, playing a character named Jeff Johnson, runs for Congress after an incumbent with the same name dies.

“Russell Pearce mentioned the Constitution six times tonight, and Jerry Lewis mentioned it zero,” said Craig Ray, a Pearce ally who was convinced that his candidate would stave off the challenge.

lollin'

, and noted that the case in fact bore little similarity to any of Murphy's films; whether comparing to the energetic, elastic performances of Murphy's earliest films, or to the measured, labored work demonstrated throughout his later multi-character ensemble work, she perceived the similarities as of "little relevance", the court heard in an hour-long PowerPoint presentation on Friday.

xp

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/11/17/371870/arizona-supreme-court-redistricting/

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/13/whos_afraid_of_the_tempest/singleton/

As part of the state-mandated termination of its ethnic studies program, the Tucson Unified School District released an initial list of books to be banned from its schools today. According to district spokeperson Cara Rene, the books “will be cleared from all classrooms, boxed up and sent to the Textbook Depository for storage.”

Facing a multimillion-dollar penalty in state funds, the governing board of Tucson’s largest school district officially ended the 13-year-old program on Tuesday in an attempt to come into compliance with the controversial state ban on the teaching of ethnic studies.

The list of removed books includes the 20-year-old textbook “Rethinking Columbus: The Next 500 Years,” which features an essay by Tucson author Leslie Silko. Recipient of a Native Writers’ Circle of the Americas Lifetime Achievement Award and a MacArthur Foundation genius grant, Silko has been an outspoken supporter of the ethnic studies program.

“By ordering teachers to remove ‘Rethinking Columbus,’ the Tucson school district has shown tremendous disrespect for teachers and students,” said the book’s editor Bill Bigelow. “This is a book that has sold over 300,000 copies and is used in school districts from Anchorage to Atlanta, and from Portland, Oregon to Portland, Maine. It offers teaching strategies and readings that teachers can use to help students think about the perspectives that are too often silenced in the traditional curriculum.”

--------------------------------------------------------

Other banned books include “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” by famed Brazilian educator Paolo Freire and “Occupied America: A History of Chicanos” by Rodolfo Acuña, two books often singled out by Arizona state superintendent of public instruction John Huppenthal, who campaigned in 2010 on the promise to “stop la raza.” Huppenthal, who once lectured state educators that he based his own school principles for children on corporate management schemes of the Fortune 500, compared Mexican-American studies to Hitler Jugend indoctrination last fall.

--------------------------------------------------------

In a school district founded by a Mexican-American in which more than 60 percent of the students come from Mexican-American backgrounds, the administration also removed every textbook dealing with Mexican-American history, including “Chicano!: The History of the Mexican Civil Rights Movement” by Arturo Rosales, which features a biography of longtime Tucson educator Salomon Baldenegro. Other books removed from the school include “500 Years of Chicano History in Pictures,” by Elizabeth Martinez and the textbook “Critical Race Theory” by scholars Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic.

“The only other time a book of mine was banned was in 1986, when the apartheid government in South Africa banned ‘Strangers in Their Own Country,’ a curriculum I’d written that included a speech by then-imprisoned Nelson Mandela,” said Bigelow, who serves as curriculum editor of Rethinking Schools magazine, and co-directs the online Zinn Education Project. ”We know what the South African regime was afraid of. What is the Tucson school district afraid of?”

jesus fucking christ

Aaaah. Mazing.

who campaigned in 2010 on the promise to “stop la raza.”

This is like science-fiction world to me.

I read that sentence and was like "how more blatantly racist can you get?"

wow

shit makes me so angry i can't think straight.

arizona is just tilting at windmills

to me it's more pathetic and embarrassing than dangerous, tbh. you just want to pat some of those people on the head and say, "guys it's 2012. come on."

i'm sure it's all really cute if you're a latino in az or ms or ga

Another notable text removed from Tucson’s classrooms is Shakespeare’s play “The Tempest.” In a meeting this week, administrators informed Mexican-American studies teachers to stay away from any units where “race, ethnicity and oppression are central themes,” including the teaching of Shakespeare’s classic in Mexican-American literature courses.

jfc

(i thought i posted that hours ago, weird)

ugh

more and more I am beginning to think federalism is a bad idea

federalism is a smoke-screen for racist policy, basically

at least in America it historically has been

are they going to avoid discussing the holocaust too?

i know the superintendent of tucson unified :(

(i thought i posted that hours ago, weird)

― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you did, on a lolz thread

or something

http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2012/01/17/tucson-district-denies-ban-of-mexican-american-books/

kids, walk the fuck out of those classrooms right now

they'd probably be shot on the spot, and the cases their parents brought wouldn't even be heard by the supreme court, if it got that far

In a statement Tuesday, TUSD spokeswoman Cara Rene wrote that the books were not banned. They are still available to students through their school libraries, she wrote.

“The books… have been moved to the district storage facility because the classes have been suspended as per the ruling by Arizona Superintendent (of) Public Instruction John Huppenthal,” Rene wrote.

"you can still have them! In that storage room! The locked one, guarded by a leopard and the guy with the AK-47! Cmon!"

this is n/l even for arizona imo

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/02/04/418027/arizona-gop-lawmaker-wants-a-state-holiday-to-celebrate-white-people/?mobile=nc

i posted that after only reading the headline, rescind n/l

still n/l

“Good idea,” said one woman. “Like they have Cinco de Mayo for Mexicans. We need something for whites.”

http://www.thinkhero.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2012-poster.jpg

"Good idea,” said one woman. “Like they have Cinco de Mayo for Mexicans. We need something for whites.”

― Frobisher (Viceroy), Monday, February 6, 2012 12:43 AM (47 minutes ago)

amazing

(it's called st. patrick's day, fwiw)

lol the picture on that article

(it's called st. patrick's day, fwiw)

― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Sunday, February 5, 2012 10:31 PM Bookmark

ha otm

To paraphrase my mother answering my complaints about their being a Mother's Day and a Father's Day but no Children's Day: "EVERY day is White Man's Day!"

ARIZONA SUPREME COURT UPHOLDS BAR ON SPANISH-SPEAKING CANDIDATE | Arizona’s Supreme Court has upheld a lower court’s decision that prevents a Latina woman from running for office because she does not speak English proficiently, Fox News reports. State law requires elected officials to speak English but does not define “proficiency,” argued attorneys for Alejandra Cabrera, who had filed to run for San Luis, Arizona’s city council. While Cabrera admits that she speaks “little English,” 98.7 percent of San Luis’ population is of Hispanic origin. “My English is fine for San Luis,” she said in January. Cabrera’s attorney is exploring ways to appeal her case to the United States Supreme Court.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/08/421167/arizona-supreme-court-upholds-bar-on-spanish-speaking-candidate/

that law may be vague and in need of amending but i don't think its racist nor is the motivation to uphold it

Citizenship shouldn't devolve into something less than full and complete citizenship, based on what languages you speak. True, there are practical problems that arise when communication is difficult among different groups in a country, but lots of countries have to deal with this. There are better ways.

there are def practical reasons why you would want everyone who is voting on a bill to understand the technical language in the bill, otoh this is not a major problem in america at all and is only being made into one because people hate mexicans

gee, I wonder who brought this lawsuit against Cabrera and what their motivations could possibly be

that law may be vague and in need of amending but i don't think its racist nor is the motivation to uphold it

― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, February 10, 2012 2:15 PM (13 minutes ago)

no, it is. why doesn't the same apply to voters? there's a language exam for people who write laws, but not for people who vote these people in? what would have been her constituency probably overwhelmingly speaks spanish

i agree she'll prob serve her constituency better than a native english speaker but i dunno man i mean her job is going to involve going in and dealing w/ complex issues she needs to make a call on, all being discussed in english

and its not crazy to take that as a serious, non-racist concern

but agree w/ iatee and shakey that there are shitty racist scumbags beneath it

if someone can be democratically elected and, as you said, is a person who would well represent her constituency, the burden shouldn't be on that person to adjust to the democratic process, the democratic process should be flexible enough to adjust for her. ie get her a translator.

it's like if she had a wheelchair and cityhall didn't have wheelchair-access.

Yes, but state law doesn't require her to be able-bodied. It does require her to speak English.

right, which is just as stupid

yeah that was the point jon

xposts yeah that's apples and oranges.

i don't know enough about this to continue arguing and I'm willing to bet there's a case to be made for amending the current law, but its not crazy to assert that there are all sorts of nuanced ideas that are important parts of the job that cant be trusted/expected to be filtered through a translator

tho the UN does it so i dunno

gee, I wonder who brought this lawsuit against Cabrera and what their motivations could possibly be

The mayor that Cabrera tried to get recalled.

dont mind me i'm just on some "only *I* get to make fun of AZ for being racist" steez i guess

yeah the UN vs. San Luis, Arizona city council

there are like 1m poorer and smaller countries that manage to have governments that work in more than one language, no reason we cant do it even on the state level, except if we want to discriminate against people who dont speak english

she's running for city council, not president.

98.7 percent of San Luis’ population is of Hispanic origin.

but the person who represents them must speak english

agree w iatee & k3vin & aimless here. the law is shitty and racist to begin with, both on the surface and beneath, in intent. if a person can be elected by the majority of voting citizens, then they are, by definition, capable of representing those citizens in the manner that those citizens think best. that's the essence of democracy.

i mean, do we really think that elected officials should have to pass tests to determine their competency, given all we know about how tests can skew or be skewed against various groups?

otm

there are like 1m poorer and smaller countries that manage to have governments that work in more than one language,

^^^this

law is fucking stupid and racist, translating things is simple (especially in this day and age), and English is not the official language of the country

WILL WILL BE HEARING FROM THE SAN LUIS AUDUBON SOCIETY TODAY AT THREE OR AT FOUR? DON'T WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION!!!!

agree w iatee & k3vin & aimless here. the law is shitty and racist to begin with, both on the surface and beneath, in intent. if a person can be elected by the majority of voting citizens, then they are, by definition, capable of representing those citizens in the manner that those citizens think best. that's the essence of democracy

Not necessarily defending the law but she's elected to represent all the citizens, not just the majority who voted for her. Working with a translator should be a reasonable compromise though.

curious what the rationale behind the recall attempt was. Given the make-up of the town I can only assume the sitting mayor is also a spanish-speaker and that this was just some shenanigans to keep his political opponent sidelined

Not necessarily defending the law but she's elected to represent all the citizens, not just the majority who voted for her.

yeah, but my point is that anyone who wins a democratic election by definition has "the will of the people" behind them, and it's up to the people to determine who's best capable of representing their interests. the language barrier thing is, as you say, a non-issue given that translators are available, and it's a red herring in the first place, as it's not like she's completely incapable of understanding or speaking english. an arbitrary and racist standard has been imposed to bar her candidacy. i mean, what's the standard for linguistic "proficiency" and who gets to decide?

WILL WILL BE HEARING FROM THE SAN LUIS AUDUBON SOCIETY TODAY AT THREE OR AT FOUR? DON'T WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION!!!!

haha I know I should be thinking Kruschev but all I hear is General Chang from Star Trek

eh stevenson, nevermind

there are def practical reasons why you would want everyone who is voting on a bill to understand the technical language in the bill, otoh this is not a major problem in america at all and is only being made into one because people hate mexicans

― iatee, Friday, February 10, 2012 11:26 AM Bookmark

otm

federalism is a smoke-screen for racist policy, basically

― horseshoe, Sunday, 15 January 2012 21:35 (3 weeks ago

this is ridiculous btw

Eh, if not racism exclusively, it's generally a smokescreen for some other anti-social "does not play well with others" policy.

xps "The will of the people" is always a questionable concept, for me. As long as translators are provided where required, essentially putting English-speakers on the same footing as Spanish-speakers elsewhere, that should be fine. It's important that those accommodations would be made though.

Proficiency is a meaningless term without a scale to measure it against. Using the standard European scale she'd probably be looking at operational proficiency, which is the same kind of capacity to use a language you'd need to, for example, understand a degree course. It doesn't sound like that benchmark is formally in place, though - which raises the question of how would she know she'd failed the test?

Federalism has def been used as a means to evade legal norms by creating local islands of difference within the USA, and Jim Crow was clearly the biggest and worst crime that was shielded by "state's rights", but it has legitimate uses, too.

saying that the actual political structure of the united states is "just a smokescreen for racism" strikes me as beyond ludicrous.

As practiced, not on paper. (And even somewhat on paper.)

Racism was woven deeply into the fabric of the USA even before there was a USA. So, racism was going to be woven deeply into the politics of the USA from the start, by default. We've been struggling with it ever since.

saying that the actual political structure of the united states is "just a smokescreen for racism" strikes me as beyond ludicrous.

well, if you really do want to say that the united states itself is and always has been "a smokescreen for racism", then it's not so ludicrous. i mean, i think that's a rather absurdly reductive argument, but it's not totally without merit, inasmuch as the US was founded as much on slavery as on the high moral principles encoded into the constitution and bill of rights.

ilx poster horseshoe: not totally without merit

hey J.D. i meant states'-rights type arguments. i just don't believe "state's rights" is a real thing, now, or in the antebellum era. they still seem like a smokescreen for racist and more recently homophobic policy.

i should have been more precise, because i was thinking of "state's rights" arguments that were essentially pro-slavery arguments in the years leading up to the civil war and their long legacy. but frankly inasmuch as the actual political structure of the united states gives states a lot of leeway to escape federal law, it kind of pisses me off. i am kind of fascist n.b.

or, the way sparsely populated states get as much representation in the senate as densely populated ones just because of statehood. annoying!

my view on federalism:

any time a state passes a cool law like one that legalizes gay marriage, yay, but that should be a federal law.

any time a state passes a shitty law: fuck you, congress and/or the supreme court should be able to overrule you.

hey J.D. i meant states'-rights type arguments. i just don't believe "state's rights" is a real thing, now, or in the antebellum era. they still seem like a smokescreen for racist and more recently homophobic policy.

they are that, certainly, but i'm leery of arguments that reduce complex arguments to a single point of conflict. taxation, self-determination, principled anti-federalism, general paranoia, culture wars of other sorts: these things figure in, too.

at least to the extent that they aren't just a bunch of smokescreens for racism & homophobia...

anyway, that's pretty off-topic i guess.

but states'-rights arguments aren't complex! they're contentless, is what i'm saying, i guess controversially.

i guess

but frankly inasmuch as the actual political structure of the united states gives states a lot of leeway to escape federal law, it kind of pisses me off. i am kind of fascist n.b.

strongly disagree. one of the greatest things abt the constitution is the way it attempts to balance various powers with different interests against one another as a means of preventing any single power or interest from dominating government. tripartite fed, for example, or house v senate, fed v states. really fucking smart. while i'm not opposed to federal governance, nor am i inclined to uncritically support its growth at the expense of states' rights.

anyway, this barring of Cabrera from running for office is some racist bullshit

WHAT ARE STATES' RIGHTS?

seriously makes no sense to me as a concept.

well, the basic idea is that individual states retain authority over all aspects of governance not specifically or by implication delegated to the fed by the constitution. "states' rights" is shorthand for that, right?

it's cool how states could opt out of the patriot act

Horseshoe otm

states rights are stupid things that only lead to wars

what if the states had never united?

as a matter of practicality it's hard for me to find fault with that, but it seems to me when "states' rights" gets invoked in political or legal arguments no one is actually worried about the balance of power between the federal government and that of the states. it's always just this thing that's invoked as a means to furthering whatever agenda's at hand. maybe i am wrong that those agendas are always racist/homophobic, but i still don't believe anyone who claims to care about the balance of power between the states and the federal government really does. i mean maybe crazy conservatives do in the sense that they wish the federal government didn't exist, but i assume they are not super-invested in the rights of their state governments in that case.

xxxxp to contenderizer

like, people can have rights. states? get the fuck out of here with that.

it's all about states rights (until your state needs federal money)

god, right? p.s. all states need federal money.

maybe i am wrong that those agendas are always racist/homophobic

sometimes they are misogynist, for example, as when people discuss abortion as a "states' rights issue"

sorry i drank a lot of coffee today

ur killin it dude

like, people can have rights. states? get the fuck out of here with that.

Yesssssss. States are not real things.

it's kind of like hmm ok

one of the greatest things abt the constitution is the way it attempts to balance various powers with different interests against one another as a means of preventing any single power or interest from dominating government

thats definitely got the ring of truth/sensibility. but like, so does institutionalized racism is bad so

the idea of a 'state' made sense for like 20 years after the revolutionary war when people were still afraid of 'monarchies'

the idea of a 'state' also made sense at the time of the war as a way for the South to keep owning slaves without authorizing in perpetuity in the constitution

beyond that, I have no idea why america needs states

states basically make crappy places & people way more important than they should be and therefore crappier

thats definitely got the ring of truth/sensibility. but like, so does institutionalized racism is bad so

― flopson, Friday, February 10, 2012 7:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

that's because it tickles the part of 5th grade social studies that was about the 'founding' of 'america' imprinted onto your brain without you understanding anything at all about it... but maybe you were a smart 5th grader

i'm canadian, dog

one of the greatest things abt the constitution is the way it attempts to balance various powers with different interests against one another as a means of preventing any single power or interest from dominating government. tripartite fed, for example, or house v senate, fed v states. really fucking smart. while i'm not opposed to federal governance, nor am i inclined to uncritically support its growth at the expense of states' rights.

pretty much totally agree with this. federalism means 'state vs local' as much (or more) as 'federal vs state.'

fwiw i think the term "states' rights" is pretty unfortunate and misleading, since it isn't a question of 'rights' so much as proper apportionment of power.

but when has it ever been invoked in American history sincerely for that purpose? i am asking this sincerely; i know you know a lot more about American history than i do.

balance various powers with different interests against one another as a means of preventing any single power or interest from dominating government. tripartite fed, for example, or house v senate, fed v states.

yeah but... what is the "power" or "interest" being prevented from dominating government by the "house v senate" or "fed v states"? why do we need those "balances"?

i feel like the two most resonant invocations of states rights in this country's history were 1) proslavery arguments and 2) mantaining-segregation arguments.

what is the proper apportionment of power xp

what have states done for me lately? the federal government emancipated slaves and ended Jim Crow. South Dakota keeps trying to ban abortion. yay states' rights!

medical marijuana

*burns constitution to light joint*

i vaguely know that thomas jefferson had some reasons for being all about federalism that were probably legit (like i believe he cared about federalism qua federalism), but i still think the legacy of that decentralizing force in american politics has been pretty negative.

medical marijuana

― buzza, Friday, February 10, 2012 7:47 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

okay, well-played

horseshoe is pro-forced bussing

i admit it

i vaguely know that thomas jefferson had some reasons for being all about federalism that were probably legit (like i believe he cared about federalism qua federalism), but i still think the legacy of that decentralizing force in american politics has been pretty negative.

― horseshoe, Friday, February 10, 2012 7:48 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

who cares what some dead person thinks

haha well i was going to say, i'm pretty sure he was wrong, but then i was like loooooooooooool i should stop pretending i know shit about shit like i'm some constitutional scholar. i just think people should be forced to do things!

but when has it ever been invoked in American history sincerely for that purpose?

1) kentucky and virginia resolutions (passed in opposition to the alien and sedition acts)
2) several states attempted to reject the fugitive slave law (passed at the behest of the slave states, despite their supposed hatred of fed power)
3) medical marijuana
4) no child left behind

I am interested in the thoughts of a lot of dead people fwiw

particularly the ones they had when they were not dead

xp haha just teasing ya, "some dead guy thought this so we can't do it " is the wool that scalia & thomas et. al have been pulling over everybody's eyes for awhile now

I am interested in the thoughts of a lot of dead people fwiw

― plee help i am lookin for (crüt), Friday, February 10, 2012 7:53 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah but when it's like "people get to buy AK-47s to-day because some guy in the 1780s could buy a blunderbuss", I'm like fuck what that dead person thought

1) kentucky and virginia resolutions (passed in opposition to the alien and sedition acts)
2) several states attempted to reject the fugitive slave law (passed at the behest of the slave states, despite their supposed hatred of fed power)
3) medical marijuana
4) no child left behind

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, February 10, 2012 7:53 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

200+ years of states rights and this is the best list you can come up with?

the first three are certainly all instances where the federally-passed law seems wrong, J.D. it's just that the principle in question isn't really states' rights. it's individual rights in all cases. (so fine, not always racist/homophobic.)

no child left behind is tricky, and i know obama has allowed some states some leeway from it, which is good, but the main problem with it imo is that it holds public schools to a certain standard but those schools are funded unequally. if it funded poor schools such that they were as well funded as schools in wealthy districts i think i would mostly be okay with it? allowing for more varied evaluation?

xposts oh totally, I was just making a throwaway comment. I have been hanging back from serious political discussion ever since earlier today when I misguidedly responded to a facebook friend sharing a Michelle Malkin article & got sucked into a vortex of loonies.

and didn't penalize already struggling schools financially

lol what is this thread about again?

ongoing "states rights" bullshit in arizona

horseshoe otm states p much useless

let's get rid of counties and cities too. fuck 'em all

no cities are cool

I propose we divide the US into the original best form of democracy, the polis

it's just that the principle in question isn't really states' rights. it's individual rights in all cases.

or maybe the principle in each case could be described in a more specific way. sometimes i feel like american rights discourse itself is the problem, like "states' rights" rhetoric is some grotesque parodic outgrowth of our political culture.

let's get rid of counties and cities too. fuck 'em all

― plee help i am lookin for (crüt), Friday, February 10, 2012 8:10 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no cities are cool

― iatee, Friday, February 10, 2012 8:10 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol saw this coming

4) no child left behind

more on this one?

i think he meant that no child left behind is a federally imposed statute that various states experience as counter-productive and restrictive? and might indeed invoke "states' rights" as a reason it should be repealed.

200+ years of states rights and this is the best list you can come up with?

look, it's ilx, i'm not going to write a book

another big recent accomplishment at the state-by-state level that probably would have been impossible at the national/federal level = gay marriage

in a world w/o the senate, electoral college, etc. gay marriage would have already been feasible at the national level

you can't just make up hypothetical otherworlds and say that they would be better just because it can be imagined that they might. sure, in a completely dictatorial, top-down system, anyone could have imposed any laws they might have wished. but only very recently has gay marriage begun to seem palatable to a majority of americans. it seems to me that this has been a product of the fact that a few states did pass such laws, among many other things. the existence of gay marriage at the state level made it seem less impossible, demonstrated that it wasn't gonna destroy the fabric of american life in a heartbeat.

and a simple way of thinking about the value of state governance is local governance. states can make decisions for themselves, as decided by their own populations, in ways that respond to their unique cultures and situations. a fully top-down government would likely have a much harder time efficiently and sensibly making decisions for every area within the country.

another way to think about this is the value of the stasis generated by opposed powers. i used to work for the VHA (veteran's healt admin) in DC. it was a horribly stagnant and inefficient place, with endless layers of bureaucracy and redundancy that prevented anything from ever getting done, or so it seemed. at first this pissed me off, because it seemed so wasteful and demoralizing. in the long run, though, i came to see a certain wisdom in it. the VHA, you see, is run from the top down by a presidential appointee and the senate. so its management is highly politicized and in constant turmoil. it changes completely every few years, and the new management always wants to overhaul everything, clean house, even simply figure out what's going on. that flux at the top threatens the ability of the organization to do the day to day work to which it's dedicated. so its apparent inefficiency is in a sense defensive. it's what preserves the VHA's ability to work at all.

state vs fed is similar. the fed would like to be able to dictate police everywhere & for everyone. why not? if you have a good idea and a mandate, why let it go to waste? same with the states. they'd like to handle their own business - with federal help & largesse, sure, but without federal interference. by opposing these desires, you generate enough systemic stasis/inefficiency to limit the "helpful" meddling of whoever happens to be holding the reins at any given moment.

several errors, key among them "police" = "policy"

we are arguing about whether states are good things or bad things and there really isn't any way to do that without making up hypothetical otherworlds. are there some progressive policies that can be passed on a state-level and eventually might benefit the whole country? yes. sure. does that make up for the contributions statehood has to our fucked up politics? no. not even close.

none of that good gov't shit even matters because it doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the inherent democratic and economic distortions that come w/ statehood. the alternative to statehood doesn't have to be a fully top-down government, there are flexible middle-ground possibilities where you can ensure that local and regional leaders have independence without ensuring that people in wyoming get 70x the democratic representation as people in california.

Seems to me that "states" are this weird, arbitrary creation that doesn't really have a lot of relevance in the 21st century. City/county governance makes a lot of sense, seeing to the needs of a small area, governed by people who understand the specific needs of that area. National governance also makes quite a lot of sense, governing on matters that should transcend borders, i.e. the civil rights of citizens. States exist in this middle ground that was very important when simple information took days to travel a few hundred miles, but just doesn't fit into the way the contemporary world work anymore.

xpost like the man said

contemporary world works

yeesh

i personally think that state-level governance has been quite successful in the US, though it has often provided safe haven for bigots and hampered the fed's ability to impose what i view as necessary national policy. then again, like gay marriage, the fights for the social policies i really value have often begun at and boiled up from the state level. i mean, local government just makes sense. one of the reasons we didn't have massive starvation and chaos following our revolution (as has happened so often elsewhere) was that there wasn't anybody trying to set agricultural policy for the entire nation. when it comes to agriculture, to continue the example, a lot of our most asinine and backwards policies are those enacted by the fed. i'm not saying it's a perfect balance, but it's far to easy to write off state-level governance as a mere smokescreen for bigotry - though it certainly can be just that.

there are flexible middle-ground possibilities where you can ensure that local and regional leaders have independence without ensuring that people in wyoming get 70x the democratic representation as people in california.

― iatee, Friday, February 10, 2012 11:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

okay, yeah, this i agree with. the present system is deeply flawed.

a lot of our most asinine and backwards policies are enacted because rural *states* have disproportionate political influence at the federal level

yeah, that too, state reps gaming the system. point taken.

and again, the alternative to states isn't 'barack obama makes every law in america'. there are lots of ways to do regional government that would be more efficient, democratic and logical.

take california. that is a huge place. it should not be 'a state'. it should be 5 states probably. ignoring everything else, the fact that it is 'a state' creates thousands of problems. there's no reason why bakersfield and san francisco should be governed by the same regional body, and there is no flexibility in the state-model to fix that problem. likewise there is no reason why kansas city should be governed by two separate regional bodies.

Absolutely. I grew up in metro0east St. Louis, and it is absurd that East St. Louis, IL is governed by the same regional laws as Chicago, instead of St. Louis, MO, seeing as how the operate as the same metro area.

I mean, this is all Poli Sci 101 flights of fancy, we all know that the current states will exist until the Nuclear/Climate wars of 2073 split the USA into 76 distinct fiefdoms, but it's worth discussing anyway.

or the fact that the new york city region is in fact, 3 states, creates bullshit problems. bloomberg had to give the company freshdirect tax breaks so that they would not move the headquarters across the river, to a part of new jersey that is part of greater nyc. that's ridiculous - nyc shouldn't have to pay a business that's gonna stay in nyc to 'stay in nyc'. you can argue that some types of regional competition are good, but this is competition *within a region* - freshdirect was gonna stay here regardless.

while at the same time voters in upstate new york get to elect people who get to decide how much funding the subway system should get. there are very few states that would be drawn w/ anything close to their current boundaries today, and that's not a small issue, it's an enormous economic and democratic inefficiency that affects things for everyone, everywhere.

this is also an argument against our system of city boundaries fwiw

okay, i'm gonna call a TO here for a minute, because this is drifting a little to quickly for my comfort. my basic argument is that "states' rights" has value as a concept, whether or not we like that language, and that it's not fair to reduce the idea entirely to a simple smokescreen for bigotry. i do believe that. beyond that, i do see value in local government at various levels, including something like what presently = the state level. i think we agree on that point?

okay, that's thing one. thing two, is that i'm not much of a utopian. i don't do ideal societies or radical changes. i'm more concerned with identifying where things are and finding a reasonable next move, given my ideals. so talk of dismantling the senate or breaking california up into however many pieces doesn't interest me much. there's no way to say what the outcome would be if such things did happen, and this is doubly true since i can't imagine likely circumstances under which such things might even become possible. i certainly can't see any reason to actively work towards these things.

i mean, i do tend to agree that the senate is a obsolete organ of state and that california is unwieldy...

this is sort of a different argument than the one we began with -- i'm all for making local governments stronger and more representative. i suppose i read 'federalism' as 'division of power' rather than 'pro-state.'

'states' rights' doesn't have any power that 'regions' rights' can't. unless you think there is some real advantage to the clunky, inflexible regional boundaries we have today, there is no reason to defend 'states'. you can defend strong regional and local power without defending 'states'.

there's no reason why 50 states is an ideal number of regional boundaries, and there's also no reason why regional boundary lines can't be redrawn at least *once in a while*. if 50 is the ideal number of regions today, then it surely wasn't the ideal number when we had half our population and it won't be the ideal number one day.

and I didn't even mention bigotry, which is pretty clearly a huge issue but not even one that *needs* to exist for states to be a shitty idea, really something that fucks us in so many ways we don't even think about.

arizona is sort've the textbook example of a state government that's running roughshod over what remains of the independence of its city and county governments.

there's no reason why 50 states is an ideal number of regional boundaries, and there's also no reason why regional boundary lines can't be redrawn at least *once in a while*.

Well, no *real* reason, but Constitutionally we're not allowed to make states out of any portion of an existing state.

internet konked out last night, so this is like 12 hours late, but uh...

this is also an argument against our system of city boundaries fwiw

― iatee, Friday, February 10, 2012 11:39 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, it's an argument that identifies problems in the way things are. and that's valuable, but are you really proposing a solution to any of this? if we redraw city and state boundaries every few years to reflect changes in populations and industries, then we create this massive, awful political football that gets tossed around endlessly. there's efficiency in inefficiency, reason to let sleeping dogs lie. just because a problem can be identified does not mean that a fix is required. better to have no answer than a bad one. but yeah, i agree w/ n-i-c-k that it's useful to discuss this stuff, even if no solution is forthcoming.

well am I proposing a solution that could happen w/ our current system of gov't and w/ the assumption that in the big picture americans are rational political actors? no. our current system has vested interests. people who currently benefit from our ridiculous state boundaries might not even know they have vested interests, but if the subject ever came up, nobody is going to give up what they have. people in wyoming are not gonna say "wow it's pretty ridiculous how much power we have considering that we only exist as a regional body for historical reasons, let's vote for a senator who votes his office out of existence and a system that ensures that we don't get a disproportionate amount of resources sent to the magical lines that constitute 'wyoming'.

congressional districts already are a political football that get tossed around endlessly. it's annoying, gerrymandering is awful and there should and can be a a better way, but nobody argues that it would be better if we still had the same congressional district boundaries as we did when america had 50 million people.

in the end you're going to have to draw a line in the sand w/r/t how often regional boundaries are redrawn, how they're redrawn and why. but should they be, at least, idk, once every hundred years? yes. and should they be roughly equal in political representation on a national level, so we don't allow rural interests to run a country in the 21st century? yes.

people in wyoming are not gonna say "wow it's pretty ridiculous how much power we have..."

^^ this is why any radical (or even signifigant) political reorganization of the USA will not happen without a deep, rather fast-developing political crisis to drive it.

iatee otm

Not racist, but still lol Arizona. Seriously, this place is just Crazypantstown.

Five GOP Senators in Arizona have introduced a bill in Arizona that would make the lives of teachers and professors a living hell inside and outside of school. Senator Al Melvin, Senator Andy Biggs, Senator Don Shooter, Senator Lori Klein, and Senator Steve Smith are the sponsors of SB 1467, which would prohibit teachers from engaging in “speech or conduct that would violate the standards adopted by the federal communications commission concerning obscenity, indecency and profanity if that speech or conduct were broadcast on television or radio.” In other words, teachers can’t do things that aren’t allowed on television.

what the fuck

that seems . . . unconstitutional

haha mookie

what on earth

i wonder if there is even the thinnest membrane of a real issue behind that. did a teacher get caught with a party video on youtube or something recently?

probably just fucking with the teachers' union

does that include, like, reading out loud from/discussing books in an English class? wait, Arizona already banned all the books.

xp seems like it's got to be in response to something, yeah. and spectacularly ill thought-through.

i am assuming this is meant to be a blanket code of behavior even beyond school hours.

yeah that's certainly how it reads!

So their sex lives will all be 'fade to black'?

Make sure to click through for the full text of the bill. It's just bonkers.

they're occasionally allowed to show their butt iirc

even in class

can you subscribe to a teacher's life to get more racy content?

i have tried and the answer is no

Great way to give in to big Washington government bureaucracy - it's unaccountable FCC that regulates what you can put on the airwaves.

this is next-level

So...they can't ever use the bathroom.

Yeah I mean

they're occasionally allowed to use a public restroom but each time they do there has to be something interesting that happens, like they bump into a celebrity

lol

it's weird that republicans at this point have basically become life trolls

They're...I dunno, suicide bombers of a sort.

it's weird that republicans at this point have basically become life trolls

― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:28 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I've been saying they're the Troll Party for several years. They're now purely reactive and oppositional.

It makes them funnier than democrats, and people love that.

New GOP symbol:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6395001733_51958dea3b_z.jpg

I just called my state senator and the intern on the phone says voting for it isn't on the agenda this week, next week is a House bill, if it doesn't get attached to another bill, it's not going anywhere. According to her. But I ranted to her about my emphatic desire for a "no" vote anyway. Why the hell would I look for a job here or live here after I graduate and become a teacher with a bill like that in place? There's so little incentive to be a teacher here in the first place.

haha yeah i keep reminding myself not to look for teaching jobs in AZ

No we need all the awesome anti-racist people we can get!

I do plan on sticking around if I can get a job in townbut if something like this bill passes, I would say 'fuck off.'

i think i would get fired in five seconds flat tbh but <3

xp there's no way this can possibly pass, right?

feel like i just jinxed it

P sure this will not pass but *crazier things have happened.*

well that thing with chandler was nuts

This could pass but its not going to get past the state supreme court if it even gets that far. I think this is something even Gov. Brewer might veto.

http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/editorial/do-pupils-ears-need-protection-from-vile-teachers/article_215f5791-7ea9-5a0f-b87d-2f1e740291b6.html

LOCAL PAPER OP-ED and it reads just like one

LOL so many scare quotes!

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/02/18/conservative-gop-arizona-sheriffand-mitt-romney-az-campaign-co-chairpledges-to-deport-illegal-immigrants

way more LOL than the url would indicate

that article is really ridiculous and worth a read, but:

"A blowjob isn't the kind of "first response" the bigots at CPAC had in mind, Sheriff Babeu"

is this really an acceptable sentiment in a news article? the fact that its used to poke fun at bigots doesn't make this any less homophobic. not to mention calling him a "cocksucking hypocrite." keep in mind babeu is openly gay, and threatening to deport a former partner is not really a sexuality-specific issue

A Dan Savage blog entry doesn't qualify as a news article, though. Was Babeu out before the Phoenix New Times article appeared?

that Dan Savage, such a homophobe

My sense is he was not out, in any commonly used meaning of the term.

he said in his adam 4 adam profile that he was out, but that could be a lie

i'd have a hard time believing that he was

afaict Babeu was never open about his sexuality until this blew up.

although he has confirmed that he's gay in a press conference just now

i suppose it's possible he was out to those close to him, but not in the greater public realm. but who knows.

He pretty much had to confirm he is gay. He is facing a lawsuit that will hinge on whether his denial of the accusation can be trusted. Denying he is gay atm would blow up his credibility in that suit. Double bind.

In recent weeks, Arizona sheriff and once-rising GOP star Paul Babeu has publicly acknowledged that he’s gay, denied allegations that he threatened to deport his ex-lover, a Mexican national, and vowed to press forward with his bid for Congress.

But a new set of allegations has emerged, setting off an ugly -- and public -- family feud between Babeu and his older sister Lucy.

KNXV-TV in Phoenix aired a story Sunday about Babeu’s tenure as headmaster at a Massachusetts boarding school. Former students and state records said the school used controversial disciplinary methods, including something called “sheeting,” in which students were forced to take off their clothes and wear only a sheet.

In the report, Lucy Babeu said her brother, who worked at the school from 1999 to 2001, dated a male student, an allegation former students also made on camera. The TV station did not name the former student, who was 17, which the report said was the age of consent in Massachusetts.

“I said, ‘Paul, get a hold of yourself here,’ ” Lucy Babeu said in an on-camera interview. “ ‘You were his teacher! You were his executive director! You can't do this.’ ”

A spokesman for Paul Babeu said the sheriff had never been “the target of any investigation or lawsuit” and “was recognized for helping restore financial stability of the school," according to a statement emailed to The Times. The statement said Babeu oversaw things such as grounds maintenance, and not decisions about curriculum or discipline.

Furthermore, the statement said, "Sheriff Babeu never had a sexual relationship with a student. A student has never lived with Sheriff Babeu either."

The day after the story aired, a law firm affiliated with Babeu’s campaign lashed out at his sister, according to the Arizona Daily Star. It released a detailed dossier saying she had mental health issues and had lost custody of her children, among other, more lurid allegations. Lucy Babeu called the charges “slanderous.”

The law firm also released a statement from a former boarding school student named Joshua Geyer, who said he'd recently been contacted by the media regarding "allegations of an inappropriate relationship" with Babeu. "I have never at any time lived with or engaged in any inappropriate sexual relationship with Paul Babeu," the letter said.

Babeu, who rose to prominence as a border enforcement hawk, is running against two other Republicans in a conservative district.

We should change the thread title to "Ongoing Bigoted Bullshit":

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2012/02/28/20120228phoenix-sheraton-reach-out-ousted-lesbian-couple.html

Representatives of the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel on Tuesday met with a lesbian couple who were asked to leave a hotel restaurant Sunday after they were seen hugging and kissing. Their ouster quickly sparked a firestorm on social-media sites.

. . . Kenyata White and Aeimee Diaz, both 38, chose to celebrate their anniversary at the restaurant Sunday because they had met there, White said.

"My partner and I were reminiscing ... in one of the tall booths," White said. "I had my arm around her neck, and she had her hand around my waist. I gave her a hug for about a minute, pulled myself away to give her a quick kiss, and then we continued talking."

A manager then approached the couple, saying the "behavior was inappropriate and we needed to leave the establishment" because they were making other patrons uncomfortable, White said. The couple were later invited to come back the next day for free drinks, she said.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/01/10555166-sheriff-arpaio-obama-birth-certificate-may-be-forgery

The couple were later invited to come back the next day for free drinks, she said.

LADIES' NIGHT

The sheriff remains popular among Republicans. GOP presidential candidates have courted his endorsement throughout the primary season. At last week's Republican presidential debate in Arizona, Arpaio won loud cheers. During a question about Arizona's border woes, former Sen. Rick Santorum said the government ought to give local police agencies the chance to enforce immigration law as Arpaio has.

My friend drove to that Arpaio rally to troll it. He made a sign that said
$$ OBAMA $$
$$ REALLY $$
?? ALIVE ??

hahaha awesome!

lol

fox news ran the story toward the top of the website last night but it seems to have dropped off the site today, guess the evidence didn't pan out?

:-(

was really hoping i'd wake up to political chaos

Not racist although it's probably that too somehow but FUCKING ARIZONA

http://jezebel.com/5893011/law-will-allow-employers-to-fire-women-for-using-whore-pills

come on, that's important stuff for an employer to know so they can make important employment decisions. you wouldn't want to hire some scandalous woman who is practicing family planning with her husband, would you?

how else can we make sure women get put on the mommy track?

I just want to say, as a former long-time Tucson resident, that the city itself should not be included in the condemnation of the state's Herda-Hadda laws and racist governors/legislators. Very few people there vote for this shit.

Just like I now live in Philly, a city stranded to the side of a dipshit state that elected Rick Santorum twice to the Senate--Tucson is being fucked by a bunch of meth-head Tim McGraw fans living in AZ's shut-down areas.

I saw a bumper sticker today that said
POT got more votes in Tucson
than Jan Brewer
the O in POT was a pot leaf

yeah, i know tusconites are cool crew. wkiw.

holla Tucson

arizona is like a strange conglomeration of maricopa county (republican) which itself contains phoenix (mostly democratic), tucson (democratic), and a sea of isolated 200-person desert towns (crazy as fuck).

http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/vehicle/images/CharacterEducationLrg.jpg

How can a state with that license plate be racist, I ask?

Good looking out for the Emo race at top left.

Arizona is full of glassy-eyed monsters, I guess.

Good looking out for the Emo race at top left.

Top right, too – the Adobe Illustrator fake-manga cookie cutter Hayley Williams.

Fairness Arizona Respect

Arizona - a fine state for women w/ Ponytails!

Headbands also acceptable!

i'm kinda confused

comic sans

again, not racist but just stupid and arizona:
http://www.infowars.com/arizona-passes-sweeping-internet-censorship-bill/

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/12/sheriff_arpaio_oversaw_worst_r.php

Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Office Commits Worst Racial Profiling in U.S. History, Concludes DOJ Investigation

present day bull connor

Can the Justice Deparment do anything or is this supposed to shame Arpaio into resigning?

lol n/a u just linked to infowars

xp the investigation is ongoing and may result in trial

yeah racial profiling is illegal iirc

huh that article and the response are 4 months old

i have no idea what infowars is

Worst Racial Profiling in U.S. History

you know that's gotta be some bad racial profiling

Arizona: Worse Than Slavery

otm

i have no idea what infowars is

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:13 AM (Yesterday)

main site for 9/11 truther/ron paul supporter/general conspiracy theory profiteer alex jones

Immigrants Ambushed, Killed by Armed Militia in Arizona

In Arizona, two people trying to cross into the United States from Mexico have been killed in an apparent attack by an armed militia. According to the Pima County Sheriff’s Department, the victims were killed when a pickup truck carrying up to 30 undocumented immigrants near the Arizona town of Eloy was ambushed by "subjects in camouflage clothing armed with rifles." The attack comes as Arizona lawmakers are considering a measure that would create a state-backed armed militia to work with Border Patrol agents along the U.S.-Mexico border to capture undocumented immigrants.

jesus fucking christ

!!

the second amendment just becomes more and more repugnant to me tbh

OMFG

something like this was kind of inevitable, unfortunately

otm, but that doesn't make it any easer to swallow this

Do Stand Your Ground laws apply to protecting our god-determined borders against Al Qaeda-aiding alien invader drug kingpin insurgents? I hope so!

there are certain times i want to just break off a chunk of this country and let all these batshit fucking crazy people who want to literally destroy everyone who isn't just like them have it. fuck.

Next thing you know they'll sneak in and have anchor babies in the US, which will give their children the right to bear arms, and then where will be? Civil fuckin' War, that's where!

[/character off]

god, sometimes it feels like this whole country's just going to hell in a rocket

Hey, North Korea's trying, too! Give 'em some time.

both rockets made in China iirc

was this posted yet?

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/13/arizona_teacher_sean_arce_fired_in

a bill which prohibits schools from offering ethnic studies courses

how can this possibly be legal

ughhhhhhhhhh

Arizona is the fucking worst, which is a shame because it's really a beautiful state

how long has arizona been like this? since goldwater? before? later?

There was a pretty good Daily Show segment on the ethnics studies course thing a few weeks ago.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-2-2012/tucson-s-mexican-american-studies-ban

oh wow

rosa clark? freally??

crazuki beans

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/gilbert/fd-multiple-victims-in-gilbert-shooting?hpt=hp_t2

fuck this worthless nazi state.

fuck you how's life

oh my god :(

my dad just said "i wonder why everyone is mad at joseph arpaio all of a sudden. that's strange."

sigh

"well this is classic. he's one of the best sheriff's there ever was"

i didn't realize that his county included the sixth-largest city in the united states/a greater population than that of 23 states

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-justice-sheriff-20120511,0,158798.story

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has sued Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Arizona, asking a federal court to prevent the brazen and outspoken lawman from racially profiling Latinos, abusing them in his jails and retaliating against his critics.

"The police are supposed to protect and support our community, not divide them," said Assistant Atty. Gen. Thomas E. Perez, head of the Justice Department's civil rights division. "This is an abuse of power case involving a sheriff and a sheriff's office that has ignored the Constitution."

The lawsuit, filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, alleges that Arpaio's Maricopa County department engages in a "pattern of unconstitutional conduct" against Latinos, especially immigrants.

i wonder why everyone is mad at joseph arpaio all of a sudden. that's strange.

haha 'joseph arpaio.'

that reminds me of someone pointing out during the clinton scandal how you could tell what side someone was on when they referred to 'judge starr.'

http://www.alternet.org/rights/155384/10_worst_things_arizona%27s_racist_sheriff_joe_arpaio_has_done/

1. Forcing Women To Sleep In Their Own Menstrual Blood: In Arpaio’s jails, “female Latino LEP prisoners have been denied basic sanitary items. In some instances, female Latino LEP prisoners have been forced to remain with sheets or pants soiled from menstruation because of MCSO’s failure to ensure that detention officers provide language assistance in such circumstances.”

2. Assaulting Pregnant Women: “[A]n MCSO officer stopped a Latina woman – a citizen of the United States and five months pregnant at the time – as she pulled into her driveway. After she exited her car, the officer then insisted that she sit on the hood of the car. When she refused, the officer grabbed her arms, pulled them behind her back, and slammed her, stomach first, into the vehicle three times. He then dragged her to the patrol car and shoved her into the backseat. He left her in the patrol car for approximately 30 minutes without air conditioning. The MCSO officer ultimately issued a citation for failure to provide identification.”

i don't normally wish death on people but i hope someone fucking impales this worthless hateful excuse for a human with a rusty pickaxe

I have a friend who was on one of Arpaio's chain gangs back in the 90s. Yes, he's Hispanic.

personally i think he's one of the best sheriffs this country has ever had

he's got stiff competition from a bunch of other racist yahoos tho

i don't normally wish death on people but i hope someone fucking impales this worthless hateful excuse for a human with a rusty pickaxe

― The Reverend, Friday, May 11, 2012 2:21 PM (1 hour ago)

thank you for focusing your reactionary hyperbole on a single lightning rod of a guy instead of an entire state made up of all kinds of people : )

you're very welcome XD

rev's (hyperbolically phrased) ire against this "single lightning rod of a guy" seems entirely warranted to me

I wouldn't really describe that reaction as hyperbolic, after Breitbart died I was thinking of the very few people i would really like to see dead, and Arpaio definitely makes the list.

You guys remember the whole 'sloth' sequence in Se7en, right? So it makes sense if I say something like, "I want Joe Arpaio to get 'sloth'-ed", yeah? I just wanna make sure y'all would understand the context if I were to ever use that particular verb form in a sentence, is all.

I wouldn't really describe that reaction as hyperbolic

on principle, i think it's best to describe all death threats, no matter how vague, as "hyperbolic"

it was hyperbolic tbrr

There was a point not too long ago that it was almost all, aww, Sheriff Joe, how cute! Maybe around the 60 Minutes profile? Clearly he was horrific back then, but perhaps we were all in collective denial when they trotted out the prisoners in pink jumpsuits, eating bologna on white bread? I want to say it was before his xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric ratcheted up.

rev's (hyperbolically phrased) ire against this "single lightning rod of a guy" seems entirely warranted to me

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Friday, May 11, 2012 4:28 PM (3 hours ago)

yes, contenderizzzzer, it is.

especially compared to:

fuck this worthless nazi state.

― how's life, Thursday, May 3, 2012 3:57 AM (1 week ago)

JoeStork

who is how's life anyway (assuming it's a reg)

ILX2 NEW USERNAME TRANSLATOR COMPENDIUM

sorry zonies. your nazis are a pretty intense breed though.

damn, i don't think i've caught onto any of your names since, kkvgz. i liked that one anyway and never had the vajazzle association.

i've been fucking up all over with the screennames.

what a disaster

Arizona!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/arizona_ken_bennett_obama_birth_certificate_birther.php

Bennett, the state’s No. 2 elected official just below Gov. Jan Brewer (R), said his investigation isn’t personal. He said the reason he started looking into it is because he got more than 1,200 emails asking him to do so after Arpaio’s investigation came out.

Hey, can we coordinate an effort to send him 1,201 emails asking him to die in a fire?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/20/554471/aclu-emails-from-author-of-sb-1070-prove-racial-motivation/

“Battles commence as Mexican nationalists struggle to infuse their men into American government and strengthen control over their strongholds. One look at Los Angeles with its Mexican-American mayor shows you Vincente Fox’s general Varigossa commanding an American city.”

"Varigossa"

“Corruption is the mechanism by which Mexico operates. Its people spawn more corruption wherever they go because it is their only known way of life.”

“Tough, nasty illegals and their advocates grow in such numbers that law and order will not subdue them. They run us out of our cities and states. They conquer our language and our schools. They render havoc and chaos in our schools.”

“We are much like the Titanic as we inbreed millions of Mexico’s poor, the world’s poor and we watch our country sink.”

qfjfc

“I’m racist because I don’t want to be taxed to pay for a prison population comprised of mainly Hispanics, Latinos, Mexicans or whatever else you wish to call them.”

“I’m a racist because I believe the News Media has a duty to tell us the names and race of criminals.”

“I’m a racist because I object to having to pay higher sales tax and property tax to build more schools for the illegitimate children of illegal aliens.”

“I’m a racist because I dislike having to push one for English and/or listening to a message in Spanish.”

"the emails, acquired through a public records request, are to and from the author of SB 1070, recalled Arizona Senate President Russell Pearce (R)."

are the quotes from Pearce, then, or are they excerpts from emails that were written TO Pearce?

good question, i didn't catch that

i'm looking through the emails (http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/Pochada-pearce-emails.pdf) and yep, he wrote all of that stuff. wow. people elected this guy. representative democracy.

the problem with representative democracy is that it looks like you

at least the dude was recalled

“I’m a racist because I dislike having to push one for English and/or listening to a message in Spanish.”

Fuck man this is annoying enough as a facebook meme, acting like having 3 seconds added to your IVRU message is some unparalleled burden, but as a reason to legislate something like this....asdgbv/oagbviujsfw vc ufraw

http://azstarnet.com/business/local/az-senate-businesses-citing-religion-should-be-able-to-refuse/article_ec0ebb05-a8a2-5fc3-bc64-217ef180f44f.html

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/02/28/joe-arpaios-racist-roast-and-other-stories-from/198268

Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne laid down the basic comic framework for his fellow roasters, totaling a dozen conservative dignitaries of local and national reputation. "Apologies to the Civic Center," said Horne, "but half of the kitchen staff was arrested tonight upon arrival of Joe and his deputies. Because of a budget crunch, the sheriff's cutting way back. No more green baloney for prisoners -- just an extra beating at suppertime. Over the years, Joe's touched many people. We know because many are now pressing charges."

Chuckling throughout Horne's routine on stage next to Arpaio was Russell Pearce, a recalled state senator with a documented fondness for neo-Nazi websites, and the primary architect of Arizona's controversial immigration bill S.B. 1070. Pearce smiled as his one-time ally in the 1070 fight, Arizona State Rep. John Kavanagh, began his set asking, "How many Hispanics did you pull over on the way over here, Arpaio?" He later added, "All these years I figured he was rounding up Hispanics because you had a grudge from [fighting in] the Spanish-American War. But if you were in the Korean War, how come you're not rounding up Asians?" Kavanagh was doing a bit about the difficulties of dining out with Arpaio -- "When we go into a restaurant, most of the wait staff and cooks dive out the back window" -- when he spotted a passing waiter who appeared to be Hispanic holding a platter of stuffed chickens, and screamed, "There's a brave one! Get him! Sic 'em!"

holy fuck

https://www.azag.gov/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/07/arizona_immigration_checkpoint_criticism_border_patrol_harasses_people_and.html

Crossing an interior immigration checkpoint in Arizona is a puzzling experience. A curious visitor from a peaceful foreign country driving around the state who happened upon a checkpoint for the first time might well wonder, on the basis of the cursory questions and inspections, why, exactly, the checkpoints are present. Visitors from countries wracked by military rule, coups, or civil wars, where checkpoints are routine instruments of control—and sometimes sites of violence and extortion—might feel more at home.

When an agent gives the OK—a nod, a “have a good day, now”—a traveler cannot help but feel a surge of virtue or a rush of relief.

peace god

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/09/15/republican-forced-sterilization/

"nothing conservative about facism"

fascism otoh

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/arizona-teacher-fired-after-25-years-for-defending-student-from-racist-bullying/

http://www.12news.com/story/news/local/valley/2015/07/24/judge-chastises-arpaios-lawyers-for-withholding-records/30648363/

well shit

This is the least racist bullshit you've ever seen.

knew this was coming, still so fuckin angry

what a farce

so i guess he's legalized racial profiling?

not quite. he's simply stating that in his view arpaio's willful, knowing and deliberate racial profiling, pursued consistently against thousands of people over decades, deserves clemency for unknown and unstated reasons.

thx for clarifying

Accepting a pardon is an explicit admission that you were guilty of the underlying crime, right?

You might think, but, no.