BREAKING BAD vs MAD MEN

both shows have done three seasons and while on the whole mad men probably has better, for longer, last season of breaking bad puts it over the top imo

Mad Men. I just finished season 1 of breaking bad and I like it (a lot) but Mad Men's scope and scale wins out.

Vampire Diaries

Breaking Bad Men

breaking bad is good but the subject matter doesn't interest me as much as mad men.

Breaking Bad Vs Weeds is a better comparison since they explicitly deal with the same subject. Obviously BB is better than Weeds though so maybe that's not fair (and I like Weeds).

breaking bad, I think

no, mad men

no, breaking bad

ugh

breaking bad is good but the subject matter doesn't interest me as much as mad men.

This.

Breaking Bad Vs Weeds is a better comparison since they explicitly deal with the same subject.

Except it's not a good comparison at all since Breaking Bad is a well-written show and calling Weeds "uneven" is being very nice to it.

If you've only finished season one of BB seems not in a great place to compare the two. BB has got better and better.

For me it's too hard to pick, the shows are too different.

I'm kind of amazed that anyone could be more interested in the subject matter of Mad Men, but whatever floats your boat...

TS: Dying of cancer v. dying of soul sickness

More people have seen Mad Men, so I think it will win, but it doesn't deserve the crown. And I like Mad Men a lot, but...

"Desperate but amazingly good-looking people" outperforming "desperate people who look like Brian Cranston." Shockah.

And to be fair, Brain Cranston is dying of soul sickness faster than Don Draper is.

this is actually really really hard. Before BB Season 3 I would have said MM, but now I'm not so sure. I'm gonna wait and see how S4 of MM unfolds before casting a vote...

You do not have the luxury of that much time.

need to catch up w/ breaking bad

Dunno how Breaking Bad manages to feel more involving than Mad Men, given the subject matter, maybe it's because you're allowed much more inside the characters' heads in Breaking Bad, in Mad Men you feel like more of an onlooker.

Also Breaking Bad is much funnier, so Breaking Bad wins.

Funnier? Really?

breaks my heart bad to do so but i voted mad men even tho i feel like breaking bad is more 'my show' - they are both v v good

If the questions is, "Why?" you answered it very badly.

MM has taken me aprox 20% deeper into ~thinking abt stuff~ but BB is 10% more my sort of thing as far as 'raw artistic expression and cultural truthfulness' so MM is around 10% better imo

Funnier? Really?

Yeah totally, I find Breaking Bad darkly hilarious. Mad Men is funny as well but it feels like it's mostly channeled through the less prominent characters, but the Breaking Bad central pairing of Jesse and Walt bring the lols pretty consistently. I'm only at the end of S2 though.

yeah BB is totally way more abt the lolz, closest comparison imo: the cohen bros

have only watched a handful of episodes of one and it was Mad Men, but i kind of dislike it to a degree that I voted for Breaking Bad even though i haven't seen it, neither just didn't seem to cut it.

Dunno how Breaking Bad manages to feel more involving than Mad Men, given the subject matter, maybe it's because you're allowed much more inside the characters' heads in Breaking Bad, in Mad Men you feel like more of an onlooker.

Also Breaking Bad is much funnier, so Breaking Bad wins.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:11 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

prob cuz BB is a fast-paced thriller at heart while MM is more opaque and contemplative

Mad Men, though I've only watched the first season of Breaking Bad. But even pitching S1 of BB against S1 of MM, I'd still definitely vote for the Sterling Cooper lot. Breaking Bad's really really good, but season 1 of Mad Men is probably my favourite first season of any US TV show I can think of, bar Twin Peaks.

they're both great, but there was something that kept me glued to MM that i haven't found in BB. apparently it's got even better. i guess i really hated cranston's wife was one thing. but there were some amazing eps and i want to get back into it.

they both have alliterative names which is cool, might all come down to whether you like B or M better

only one had a serge gainsbourg song named after it am i right

initials MM

i think on the whole BB is FUNNER... mad men can get boring at stretches. both are pretty good at mixing it up and being fairly unpredictable, which is nice

I voted Breaking Bad because Cranston and THE TENSION. Also I like Albuquerque more than New York.

Love Mad Men though of course. Maybe I'll have a different answer in 12-13 weeks. Probably. I hope so.

Also it's not such a stretch when you make it more about Walter, Jr./Flynn vs. the annoying Draper kids.

I don't really like Mad Men.

That's because you're in Boston (or thereabouts)

I think

eh, I think really it's more that I am not at all interested in the story

I acknowledge that it's well written and well acted, but I never want to watch it.

It's entirely possible that it's a white people thing.

Oh yeah, I went there.

nah, I have too many friends who aren't white who love the show to run with that line

(although sometimes I feel that way)

Seriously, though, I doubt the pre-civil-rights 60's has much romance unless seen from a perspective of white privilege, and a ton of it at that. Mad Men's nods to that don't make that different, they just make that nodded-to. You know?

Certainly, the ladies of Mad Men trample all over the ladies of Breaking Bad

that's not very nice of them

jesses new gf is fn smokin

"Nice" never got anyone an Emmy.

The ladies of Mad Men have to prove that they can keep up with the imagined woman of 2009 or 2010.

Both shows are to be applauded for achieving much more than might be suggested by their apparently tired basic premises. Pretty sure I groaned when I first heard them each described. But certainly The Sopranos is the ne plus ultra of that.

def felt that with BB [via weeds]

but don't think MM has a tired premise

ANOTHER show about a desperate dying high school teacher who becomes a drug lord?!?!?!

Chemistry teacher becomes methmaker. (post Weeds and Hung)

I know BB was before Hung, but it wasn't for me

aw

Maybe contrived was a word to use along with tired.

http://www.boisestate.edu/courses/westciv/earlymod/trails/globe/HollarGlobeDef.jpg

"another revenge tragedy? yawnsville, pop. me"

I know BB was before Hung, but it wasn't for me

― Sensational Howard (admrl), Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

we'll just pretend you meant William Hung

I sort of watch Mad Men out of necessity or duty, like pop cultural homework, and wish more eps were like the season 3 finale. I watch Breaking Bad because it is fucking awesome.

Mad Men - before I got into it, every time I turned it on it seemed incredibly glossy to me, like a magazine, and I only got the characters' unlikable sides. It felt like it was trading way more on the coolness of everything than the character stuff, whereas of course once you get into it, it's a nice balance, even synthesis, of both.

lol @ history mayne

Hung is a'ight

I voted Breaking Bad because Cranston and THE TENSION.

This does make me feel it's a "better" show, but I've never felt any desire to rewatch any episodes, whereas if an episode of Mad Men happens to be playing while I'm flicking through the channels, I'll always watch it.

I am basically the opposite of this:

I sort of watch Mad Men out of necessity or duty, like pop cultural homework, and wish more eps were like the season 3 finale. I watch Breaking Bad because it is fucking awesome.

I would never watch a show for "homework".

Breaking Bad looks great but I feel like I would have to sit and watch all of the series to appreciate it/know what's going on, and I don't have the time to do that right now.

kind of feel like most non-comedy things i watch involve people in danger of death/prison etc, so MM is a nice change from that

Life is a prison, man

That's what Mad Men really tells you

It is a theme, for certain.

Life is a prison but occasionally you get to take a business trip somewhere nice

And fuck someone more interesting than your wife.

Maybe you should watch Hung, history mayne. I don't think you can go to prison for having a big penis

Oh I guess it's comedy, though. but it isn't that funny.

I love both but breaking bad is so much more fun and mad men started to get too soap opera-y

having a big penis is serious business

Love them both, but definitely love Mad Men more -- and not just because Breaking Bad has had a couple gratutious grossout parts that really got on my nerves (the bloody leaking bathtub -- which almost made me give up on the series, really early --, the people-crushing cash machine.) (Also, since I watch them on Netflix, I've only seen two seasons of Breaking Bad to Mad Men's three; not inconceivable that it could catch up, at some point.)

Maybe you should watch Hung, history mayne. I don't think you can go to prison for having a big penis

Or watch Party Down. You can be hung like a mule and still be the world's biggest moron.

einstein's cock was gigantic

i saw and was into like a season and a half of breaking bad i think but never got the pure compulsion to watch it like i do mad men, even when i expect it might be tedious; when i missed a couple weeks of bb i just didn't get round catching up.

guess there is something to say about successful tv series having their own particular air of intrigue or whatever?- bb kinda felt like a bs late nite movie in episodes to me maybe

i don't know why but breaking bad feels real to me. mad men is so outlandish and implausible. who goes through life named don d. raper?

i really like that BB is not set in NYC or LA

yes^^

don d. raper

Cheap, cheap shot.

And of course there couldn't be a trailer meth lab in NY or LA. They already have suppliers. Based in a trailer somewhere.

more than not being set in NY or LA, it's set in NM which is one of the coolest places in america and gets way less attention than it should

This is really a very weird comparison because of how different they are. Sort of amazing how seeing Don and Betty's relationship disintegrate feels almost apocalyptic somehow and yet Walt refusing to leave the White home or whatever is all LOLs. And yet Breaking Bad can be very dark sometimes too. Don Draper is probably a slightly more interesting character and Mad Men is so incredibly refined, for the most part. But Breaking Bad is just a blast.

s1ocki otm - I was saying this to wifey just last week. Hung, y'all! It's set in suburban Detroit!!

Join us on the New Mexico thread, iatee! We talk about sopapillas there.

I read it sometimes! I don't have much to contribute other than "New Mexico rox and I wish I could go there more"

Don't know about NY, but pretty sure you could find trailer meth labs around parts of the Valley and further up towards the Grapevine, which is still LA county

yeah bakersfield is as methy as it gets

More than Fresno? Or Banning?

Uh, guys, Inland Empire if you're talking about meth in California.

Isn't Banning considered "Inland Empire"

or is it too far East? I'm foreign

I include every horrible city in california in the inland empire

it's a big empire

but yeah I would imagine anything in riverside county counts

Just last month.

Wuuuut?

The following suspects were arrested and booked at the Southwest Detention Center:

Mario Landeros, 51, of Perris; Lorena Villarreal, 34, of Perris; Ned Raggett, 39, of Costa Mesa; Jesus Beltran, 25, of Lake Elsinore, Stanley Adam, 50, of Lake Elsinore; Arturo Flores, 27, of Menifee; Chris Entzminger, 30, of Lake Elsinore; Brenda Partida, 26, of Lake Elsinore, Dora Nieves, 51, of Lake Elsinore; Carlos Aguila, 33, of Lake Elsinore; and Mariela Montoya-Esquer, 23 of Menifee .

Additional arrests are anticipated in relation to this investigation.

breaking ned

more than not being set in NY or LA, it's set in NM which is one of the coolest places in america and gets way less attention than it should

Two shows set in NM isn't enough? (In Plain Sight is the other one, and it definitely uses a lot of Albuquerque locations)

have never even heard of that

well, you know what they say about the best place to hide

Jesus, Beltran!

breaking ned

Well, you do what you have to.

new mexico is a beautiful state but i don't find albuquerque all that exciting. it's mostly ugly and sprawling and cultureless.

the southwest is a great setting for a show though -- tucson would be fun.

Hung is kinda awful, guys. I really wanted to like it (<3 Tom Jane) but I just can't.

yah hung is legit terrible

feel like mad men is too relentlessly cool & highbrow to be as exciting as breaking bad. also breaking bad has more range, it surprises me more

I think Albuquerque reveals its secrets over time. It's def. the Los Angeles of New Mexico haha

I like Hung because I can watch it half-asleep or while doing other things

Also not "cultureless" at all, imho. Quite the opposite.

I have fallen asleep twice to 'Hung'.

i love both of these shows and i'm excited for mad men s4, but the last couple eps of breaking bad s3 are still fresh in my mind and seemed like the best tv ever. with mad men i mostly just remember how much i want to make out with don. i don't have a real good memory.

I've been watching the mad men best of shit that's been running on bravo for the last month or whatever and last wknd I watched the eps on a high def set and it made everything, including the camerawork, look way more shoddy and fake that I ever thought it could

maybe season 3 was lacking in that department or something

breaking bad, I think

no, mad men

no, breaking bad

ugh

― alberto cat6ador (cozen), Wednesday, July 21, 2010 6:56 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark

MM is never sleep-deprivingly exhilirating as BB. But everything about it has been impeccable from S1, which isn't the case with BB, which even in its current era of greatness has the odd clumsy line or character beat or whatever.

MM gets extra points for my having followed it since its very first UK airing.

lets see breaking bad is fucking awesome and i hate mad men so this is kind of easy

I think I see where this poll is going

s1ocki otm - I was saying this to wifey just last week. Hung, y'all! It's set in suburban Detroit!!

They film at least part of it here too -- my husband worked as an extra for a couple of days. We still have never watched it though, it sounds pretty bad.

It's not THAT bad, it just isn't very good.

feel like BB NM locale says something abt the world that couldnt really be articulated elsewhere

Right, ultimately my head says MM and my heart says BB. Gotta go with the heart really. This is serious Sophie's Choice stuff though.

if I were to put these shows head to head season by season (ranked by awesomeness):

BB 3 = MM 2
BB 2 < MM 1
BB1 < MM 3

So Mad Men it is. It's really the scope that edges it, even considering that Breaking Bad was hampered by the strike in its first season.

Hung, y'all! It's set in suburban Detroit!!

Well, so was Home Improvement (Keego Harbor), but that didn't make it good.

Am kind of curious to see Hung anyway now (never even heard of it before), even though I assume it'll stink. What suburb is it set in, exactly? Do they say?

(Fwiw, I like that Big Love, Army Wives, and Friday Night Lights aren't set in LA or NY, but with Mad Men, NY doesn't bug me.)

These are the two best shows on TV. Seriously can't decide, but watched last season of BB more recently so probably that...

Haha, I was wondering when Alex would show up. I thought "this poll will blow his MIND"

BB by a considerable margin.

having read all this can't help but feel this pair off is solely due to acclaim/popularity...shouldn't be a choice.

They're also both shown on AMC in the US, which probably encourages the comparison. Vince Gilligan says he watches Mad Men a lot because he feels like it is a sister show. What channels broadcast these in the UK?

ime everyone downloads....but the two shows are so different. i dunno...why compare anything, they're not sports teams.

They are very different, as I think we have proved.

comparing things is fun and helps one articulate one's feelings about either or both of those things

in the context of 'tv shows on tv' theyre surely more similar than different

never seen Breaking Bad but I do adore NM. Like, love it to a ridiculous extreme. Wish I could move there :/

Oh...me too!

i think i'll go with breaking bad. watching all three complete seasons in a row was exhilarating. also really connected with the characters for some reason. a lot of them remind me of people i know.

mad men is great, though.

general question: how does amc have the money to fund these shows? they seem like they'd both be really expensive.

they actually make and sell the meth from breaking bad

how do they advertise the goods tho

wikipedia sez breaking bad costs $3m an episode?? surely they aren't recouping that

this show could be so much better. all the wife-in-therapy stuff... i mean.. really? already? they should really have pulled an ER and just shown the working world, it's SO much more interesting. as it stands they don't really do that stuff too well either.

― s1ocki, Friday, August 17, 2007 1:30 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and all that divorced-mom-with-volkswagen stuff is so pandering. yes we know times were changing.

― s1ocki, Friday, August 17, 2007 1:30 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i wonder if reading some of the orig Mad Men thread before ever watching the show somewhat ruined any chance of really liking it, because i've been watching the first season lately and mostly keep thinking about ^^ these posts and others like them, which are otm.

also i was pretty appalled that MM felt the need to explain the title of the show w/ a little caption at the beginning of the first episode. the whole thing kind of feels spoonfed in that way, more of a wikipedia entry come to life than great storytelling.

I wouldn't go that far, but sure.

We should do Breaking Bad vs. Inception

funny how i really turned around on MM tho

yeah...did things happen that pulled you in later or do you like those early episodes a lot more now too?

i think the former, i feel like the show just had a really slow awkward start that may have been weirdly on purpose

what really got me was ep 4 actually, the really pete-centric one, that was just great

I think mad men has gotten better each season. the few times I've tried to watch season 1 again, it felt clunky.

characters have gotten more compelling as the show has gone on, too. they painted with a broad brush at first.

anyway, BB for me.

What channels broadcast these in the UK?

Mad Men is shown on the BBC, albeit the 'arts' channel BBC4, and latterly late night on BBC2. As for Breaking Bad, the first season was hidden away last year on little watched digital channel Five USA. I rented the DVDs of BB instead. I'm intrigued by how well further seasons of BB have been received. I've added BB s2 to my rental list.

Season 2 of BB was on Five USA as well.

homosexual II, you need to watch BB

I don't know how well BB was received in the UK, but the fact that that Five USA showed season 2 over consecutive nights at midnight over the xmas & new year holiday makes me think that maybe they were just trying to get rid of it. I'm not holding my breath for season 3, looks like I'll have to rent the DVDs.

To be fair, that's better treatment than The Wire got from British TV on its first run.

funny how i really turned around on MM tho

― al-goreda (s1ocki), Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah...did things happen that pulled you in later or do you like those early episodes a lot more now too?

― this. right here. is my. new LMBO (some dude), Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the opening of the mad men thread is compelling for demonstrating the limits of critic thinking - what does one do when presented w/an engaging work of art - panic, grasp, spout - its funny tho for all the complaints everyone seemed to have kept watching

i'm not sure the show has in retrospect justified the way it opened.

ive rewatched s1 and imo most of the initial impression of it being too broad or obvious comes from unfamiliarity w/the characters and environment - its pretty much just as good as the rest

yeah, plus there are plenty of shows w/ great 1st seasons where the early ilx posts about them aren't full of panic and grasping and uh spouting
xpost

MM def pushed some ilx tender spots - racism sexism ignorance attractive people - stands to reason engaging w/this harsh situation might inspire resistance

took melissa w to unite the board

Glad to be of service.

whoa

how long have you been standing there?

Long enough.

haaah

i refuse to pick between these two.

I don't know how well BB was received in the UK, but the fact that that Five USA showed season 2 over consecutive nights at midnight over the xmas & new year holiday makes me think that maybe they were just trying to get rid of it. I'm not holding my breath for season 3, looks like I'll have to rent the DVDs.

i didn't even know it had been on! i mean did the ppl @ five even bother watching it? crazy

It has a seriously minimal profile over here - most people haven't even heard of it till I start raving to them.

BB and Justified are getting short shrift from Five.

waht a nasty ho http://www.buzzfeed.com/akdobbins/the-official-january-jones-dating-timeline

They met on the set of American Weddings, as I'm sure you remember.

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2010/7/21/12/enhanced-buzz-22761-1279729787-22.jpg

I guess those bangs are indicative of the quality of life choices she was making in '05.

lol but mean

LOL at that pic of Adrien Brody. Another LALXOR has a great story about seeing him rolling up to a gas station in W Hollywood in a Hummer with like 30" spinners and disco lights on it or something.

It has a seriously minimal profile over here - most people haven't even heard of it till I start raving to them.

― rhythm fixated member (chap), Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:53 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

BB and Justified are getting short shrift from Five.

― orakle-krake (Gukbe), Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:55 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tbf they're not exactly pop culture phenomenons in the U.S. either -- i'd guess if i asked friends about Breaking Bad maybe half of them would know what i'm talking about and even less for Justified

I think I mean as far as advertising goes. Small cable drama awareness isn't that high in the US either, no matter how much Times Square gets decked out:

http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/breaking-bad-billboard-560.jpg

It's pretty sad that January Jones has had an even worse dating history than I have. Shocked and appalled, etc.

Sons of Anarchy got mostly ignored as well, until FX picked it up and they were putting large posters up for it all over the place. Guess we'll have to wait for the Guardian to really jump on the BB bandwagon.

t's pretty sad that January Jones has had an even worse dating history than I have. Shocked and appalled, etc.

― ô_o (Nicole), Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

I get the impression she's quite strange.

that's what happens when you name your kid after a month

Now that you mention it, I have known three girls named April and they have all been crazy.

girls named after seasons - even crazier.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/4100000/zooey-joseph-500-days-of-summer-4188278-400-305.jpg

adrien brody has LEGIT RAP CRED iirc, he produced a few tracks for c-rayz walz and a soundtrack cut with rawcotiks for a film he was in

Voted, feel a bit dirty.

also i was pretty appalled that MM felt the need to explain the title of the show w/ a little caption at the beginning of the first episode. the whole thing kind of feels spoonfed in that way, more of a wikipedia entry come to life than great storytelling.

― this. right here. is my. new LMBO (some dude), Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:26 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

That was one of the few moments in season 1 that I liked at all.

I checked out on Mad Men when we got like episode 3 of the plotline with the Jewish department store owner.

Breaking Bad runs laps around Mad Men.

I love Mad Men, but the only enduring novelty is the advertising setting--the thematic territory, characterization and plotting quickly became terribly familiar and fairly predictable; it's still top-tier television, but it adds very little to the canon. I have no doubt the show is going to jump the shark before its final season and the period fetishization will border on intolerable.

Whereas there's a consistent unpredictability and feeling of newness to Breaking Bad; I never feel like it is a television show I have watched before. Also, it's the best show on television and everything about the show is a cut above anything presently airing--especially the cinematography.

admittedly there's no shots of Christina Hendricks' ass on BB though.

there's a consistent unpredictability and feeling of newness to Breaking Bad; I never feel like it is a television show I have watched before.

and

lets see breaking bad is fucking awesome and i hate mad men so this is kind of easy

so

Breaking Bad by miles. Agree with litel's summation.

I do wonder if some of the voting for Breaking Bad is because it doesn't have many female characters.

Skyler might be only one character but without her S2 doesn't have a reason for existing.

By the way I just want to say that Mel Caramel's reappearance here was A+ material.

Thanks again.

GAH

i think they should - when they are out of ideas - make two new shows called breaking mad and bad men

thoughts?

making bread

bread man

There are not enough shows about the art and science of bread.

"bread man" would be the show and "making bread" would be behind the scenes clips and b-roll, obviously

actually i think a better title would be baking bad

"waking brad" - the travails of an overeducated 20-something who's moved back in with his parents

would watch

i think the twitter account litcrithulk put it most succinctly:

TRANSITIONING FROM BREAKING BAD TO MAD MEN KINDA LIKE GOING FROM EPIC 19TH CENTURY RUSSIAN NOVEL TO BORING NEW YORKER SHORT STORY

last 5 words kinda redundant but yeah. whatever, it's summer, let's dip into the quiddities and agonies of the ruling class

This thread has turned me against giving Breaking Bad a try.

no do give it a try

i've been watching breaking bad almost nightly for two weeks and am almost done with season 2, it's great but I need to take a break from it (haha), it is unrelentingly grim. I mean it has funny parts but it's a bit much to watch all at once.

I got through the first two seasons in a week and was pretty burned out after that. Actually quite thankful that I had to wait 6 months for the third season.

yeah gf refuses to watch it after watching one and half seasons over my shoulder and getting bummed out

i am such a dick about shows i have seen 10 seconds max of

the lovely Emma B refused to watch BB but kept asking me what had happened.

I've seen all three season of Breaking Bad and only the first 1 and half of Mad Men. Breaking Bad is totally great, no question, but I already prefer Mad Men.

Everyone totally OTM regarding BB bumming you out watching it in quick succession. I've felt this way with MM too.

curious to see Hung anyway now... What suburb is it set in, exactly?

Ha, turns out it was the suburb I grew up in -- Just finally watched the pilot (pretty bad, but held my attention, guess I'll stick with it for now) last night, sent by Netflix, and it was pretty obvious as soon as they said the high school was called "West Lakefield," but this pretty much confirms it:

http://www.candgnews.com/Homepage-Articles/2009/7-1-09/WB-support-HBO-Hung.asp

yeah ca 1916 otm - BB (and maybe mad men) provoke this compulsion to watch the next ep immediately but it's totally draining that way.

Poor Breaking Bad. It's a fantastic show but Mad Men is the best drama on television.

Guys I miss Breaking Bad so much. ='''''''(

Yep. The new season of Mad Men is excellent so far though, so that's some consolation.

It's OK, I haven't seen the latest episode yet. I miss Heisenberg

BREAKING MEN vs. MAD BAD

just watched up to the second (i think?) episode of Season 2 with Tuco's dad and the bell. which is probably the best one ive seen so far. however for me theres some stuff on BB that stretches credibility a bit. yeah i know someone says its 'fantasy' but the bit where he blows up Tuco's building was a bit stupid and McGyver. i really like breaking bad all the same although i wouldnt rate it above mad men. ive seen a few old episodes of mad men now and its always worth watching a second time. to me its a show about people having to face up to their own bullshit.

I agree that the Walt Solves Problems With Science stuff in the first season could get a bit much, but all that is pretty speedily phased out. Watch till the end of S2 and get back to us, seriously.

That's Tuco's uncle, BTW.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

This is correct.

didnt expect this!

People taken in by 'OH SHIT' moments over a slow and consistent burn.

both great obv, and no grudges

going by first 3 seasons, this could be correct. but s4 of mad men's been sooo good so far...

why make these shows fight each other when they are both getting trounced in cable ratings by RERUNS of NCIS?
they need to combine forces somehow. like go on tour together.

these shows need to strive to be more like One Tree Hill.

if that's the show with the guy getting a liver transplant and the nurse drops the liver and it's eaten by a dog, and the camera zooms in for a closeup for his crestfallen face, i'm afraid it wins in terms of 'OH SHIT' moments, but still, getting beaten by NCIS?

i cannot believe breaking bad won.

I cannot believe only six people voted for neither.

totally forgot all the weird dreamlike dark-lit long-haired-cranston ~flashbacks~ in season 1 of breaking bad

ilx getting it wrong again

Shouldn't have been this close

prefer 'oh shit' to slow burn tbh - at least when it comes to multiple-season serial dramas.

I think there's plenty of slow burn in BB as well. It's a slow burn tension.

upcoming amc zombie show > both

I love both of these shows.

I think what MM has in "slow burn" stakes that marks it out are these amazing uplifting slow-burns as much as grim ones, moments where characters turn a corner or figure something out about someone else or just man the fuck up a bit, but it's all done so subtly.

Like, the relationship between Pete and his wife over the course of season 2.

Which isn't to say it's better than Breaking Bad which is just kinda repeatedly amazing to watch.

The TS I actually have in my head is really Mad Men versus Deadwood - the similarities and differences of which are more productive to think about IMO.

Maybe a TS between Breaking Bad and Big Love, though in that case Breaking Bad would win comfortably I think (I love Big Love too though!).

Shouldn't have been this close

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, September 1, 2010 5:31 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

didn't you say you'd only seen one ep of 'mad men'

would anyone change their vote now that mad men s4 is over? i wouldn't.

surprised breaking bad took this though since there's like twice as many posts on mad men season threads as the whole breaking bad thread

to me its a show about people having to face up to their own bullshit.

makes it sounds way more boring than BB, which it is

fascinating insight.

"mad men is boring"

so fuck

oh ffs

i didn't say MM is boring, why you abusing quotes like that :(

It is a bit more boring than BB, but so are most other narratives ever.

oh come on "a bit?"

well, I say that MM is boring.

fascinating!

better poll would be Wonder Years vs. Mad Men

what's the typical time frame for a season showing up on Netflix? shouldn't season 4 be available very very soon??

Okay, I just started watching this show. I've been mainlining (heh) it; I'm halfway through the second season. Krysten Ritter just died. Sad! Also, a plane exploded. Exciting! So much happens.

Glad you liked the plane because I would consider it a rare low point of BB. Not that it isn't exciting.

Anyway, I envy you, man/dude/sista. I wish I had that much good stuff still to watch. Enjoy it!

surprised no one has compared the experience of watching BB to its drug of choice--season 3 in particular is a rush.

my thoughts on the plane crash/up through season 2 in general

- stupid f/x
– it's weird cop-out for the pair of body-bags and artsy floating head in the pool, but i figured they'd be a cop-out anyway
- sound design was great
- didn't realize it was the season finale, thought it was just a Kool Thing chucked in the middle of the episode
- good symbol
- derailed Walt's death wish/fetishization
- sober jesse is good jesse. aaron paul is a weird lookin' dude. it was odd to see the group leader in rehab was jere burns –- wynn duffy from justified

it was perhaps a bit clumsy but i liked the gesture of extending Walt's trail of destruction to almost cosmic levels. it's like he broke something in the fabric of the universe and hell rains down on everyone.

so everyone has a symbolic wardrobe color...what's walt jr's? hank's is...i dunno, orange?

guess it extends to more than just wardrobe, ie marie's car, interior decorating

The symbolism is really well-executed. There was A Thing with breakfast/plates/spoons in S2 that never got heavy-handed but came to fruition during the OD scene. It's nice to see somebody executing that kind of formal skill well.

me and soda in the same place of BB

idea that this is better than Mad Men is ludicrous tho

Not really, though. It is better! Not by much, but definitely better.

they're both good, stop ranking everything

you using the word ludicrous there is ludicrous

but the poll

I feel like we were comparing more than ranking

I think it's very apparent that MM and BB are of the same network. There's a real high-gloss house-style to both that cares a lot about color timing, geometric composition, percussive exegetic scores, pacing, etc., that goes even beyond the thematic likenesses of the shows.

BB goes for cheap laughs/shocks a lot more and just lacks the depth and scope of MM imho

Are you sure you are not confusing being cheap with being enormously gratifying and entertaining and fun?

well it definitely ditches versimilitude for gratuitous gore/grossness at multiple points (Skyler's death being a rare exception - but then Walt's single tear was a bit cryingeagle.gif imho so one step forward two steps back I guess). this isn't necessarily a negative but it does make me take the show, I dunno, less seriously than Mad Men.

ok

mostly I approach it as a schlockier/sillier version of Sopranos

otoh nothing in Mad Men is as funny as Odenkirk is in this show

Skyler's death?

xp - haha, ok you're kidding, I see

There was real depth and scope when that guy got his foot cut off by a lawnmower in the office.

the themes tackled in BB are maybe not as diverse as MM and it isn't as "serious", but don't know why that makes it a lesser show automatically.

I don't like it when Mad Men grasps for profundity without any substance. Watching Breaking Bad is like playing multiplayer Goldeneye with someone who is much better than you and being dazzled by their brilliance and inventiveness. BB puts its cards on the table and wins a lot more than Mad Men, is more of a high-wire act. Sopranos seems somewhere inbetween

I'm not kidding!

the initial blood-spatter shot in the lawnmower-foot-removal scene is very funny but it was a) only a couple seconds and b) immediately followed by material that dramatically undercut the lolz (Joanie applying the tourniquet etc. Although they went back to it for laughs with that "he'll never golf again!" line)

Sopranos pwns both these shows imho but you probably could've guessed that

Sopranos had a couple of terrible seasons though.

nah

yes. yes, definitely

All the horse racing stuff. so boring

no way - that included the gumar who burned itself plus painting of Tony that Paulie stole = GOLD

burned HERSELF argh

Could I possibly ask that this thread revive stay /relatively/ spoiler free so I can participate a bit more?

boring

I'm right where you are soda so I gots no spoilers

omgggg someone put a spoilers tag on this fucking thread

SPOILER - it gets good

^ like

shakey mo you are stupid

whoah dude don't hold back

I think it's very apparent that MM and BB are of the same network. There's a real high-gloss house-style to both that cares a lot about color timing, geometric composition, percussive exegetic scores, pacing, etc., that goes even beyond the thematic likenesses of the shows.

mb this is why i can't stand them

i was going to go to wiki and post anything significant that had happened in the last season of both but it seems a lot of effort

Really? That's interesting to me. Not that I intend to convince you otherwise, but how would you have them be?
xp
assuming you're not just trolling

walter white walks in, he is actually a cop, his son is holding a snowglobe with a tiny meth lab inside it

xp err i think i hate mad men for other reasons entirely and the associations with the visual style make me somehow transitively dislike breaking bad, which is much better

do you hate mad men for the reason that it is a terrible show?

that's certainly part of it

lol there is some ridiculously hamfisted/cartoonish shit at the beginning of S3

haha Shakey Mo is gonna watch hours of TV and then post about how shit he thinks it is (even though he will enjoy it) just to prove a point. And he still won't win

that's so sad

I like Breaking Bad's cartoonish tendencies.

I can like/enjoy things and still acknowledge lame elements of same. I contain multitudes

Just want to chime and point out that many seasons of Sopranos (while still good) were comparatively mediocre and redundant. Show went on for 4/5 seasons too long in my bit.

I'd only really consider rewatching the first three.

jere burns –- wynn duffy from justified

I'm so old I keep saying "Hey! It's the gigolo from Dear John!"

Krysten Ritter just died. Sad! Also, a plane exploded. Exciting!

Could I possibly ask that this thread revive stay /relatively/ spoiler free so I can participate a bit more?

― baking (soda), Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:39 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dude, you kinda crack me up sometimes.

so far for season 3 I'll say any scene with Odenkirk is gold and any scene with those two stupid hitmen is worthless

oh look they are slowly walking away from an exploding truck! I think I saw this in an action movie once

my wife also pointed out (correctly, imho) that this show is way worse with female characters than Mad Men or the Sopranos.

What, you didn't like that scene where Jane hit Jesse in the back of the head with a steak?

Apology Girl was okay but I don't think she was very well-drawn as a character. fairly one-dimensional, mostly a plot device to move Jesse from incompetent junkie to competent partner. I mean as soon as they started shooting up my first thought was "welp, guess she'll be dead in a few episodes"

there's just not a lot of depth given to the women - junkie, the mother who becomes a whore, high-strung shoplifter - that's about it.

who... who is 'the mother who becomes a whore'

a cliché archetype that's who

It's definitely a show about men, but I don't think it's "way worse" than the Sopranos or Mad Men.

Funny this, since it's written and directed by women.

any married woman who bangs her boss (and her unethical/books-cooking boss, at that) a couple weeks after having a baby counts as a whore in my whore book.

xp

to be clear I think it's way worse in this particular area

Funny this, since it's written and directed by women.

moreso than Mad Men...? I don't remember the gender split on the Sopranos crew as well but iirc it was primarily male.

any married woman who bangs her boss (and her unethical/books-cooking boss, at that) a couple weeks after having a baby counts as a whore in my whore book.

xp

― giallo pudding pops (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:34 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol.

hmm interesting whore definition

classic shakey

"any married woman who bangs her boss (and her unethical/books-cooking boss, at that) a couple weeks after having a baby counts as a whore in my whore book."

Dying at this.

itt I am a harsh judge of fictional marital infidelities

really disappointed in breaking bad for following that all-too-familiar arc of filing the difficult edges off your amc drama in a direct play for the wallets of soft-headed mindless consumer chicks who get wet for unethical/books-cooking bosses. fuck this gay earth. hope wilfred stays pure.

moreso than Mad Men...? I don't remember the gender split on the Sopranos crew as well but iirc it was primarily male.

I don't know anything about Mad Men.

well, a lot of women are involved in its writing/directing

shit meant this link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574332284143366134.html#mod

I think I understood like a third of polyphonic's post. who's wilfred? gay? what?

to be fair I don't understand a third of my posts either.

"any married woman who bangs her boss (and her unethical/books-cooking boss, at that) a couple weeks after having a baby counts as a whore in my whore book."

I think more time might have passed than a couple of weeks.

yeah I dunno - he was already hitting on her before she delivered, and he was there in the delivery room, and then she didn't take any time off work she was back in the office like days later (this whole plot element seemed very WTF to me, speaking as a parent)

Well if it was a couple of weeks I think we should be praising her vaginal elasticity not damning her as a whore.

i think i prefer shakey's "i've never seen a pretty lesbian" book to his "new mother bangs boss and becomes whore" book

all part of a multi-volume opus

would read

shakey is wrong about everything in this thread except sopranos being better than everything else. that is correct

his new book is quite interesting tho

http://www.blogography.com/photos18/DumbassWhore.gif

I couldn't get through the first season of the Sopranos. Someday I'll try again.

Okay, I just finished season 4. I think Giancarlo Esposito has been elevated to the Mirren plateau.

I enjoy Breaking Bad, but you've got to be on crystal to pick it over Mad Men.

I enjoy Mad Men, but you've got to be a man who loves liquor and women to pick it over Breaking Bad.

...or perhaps a woman who loves liquor and women.

liquor and women are pretty great

for those of us who liek that sort of thing

http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/2010/09/20100910_blankenship-silo_250x250.png

Prime has added a disclaimer at the beginning to S3's blackface episode (I think this is the first time I've seen it; don't remember it when I rewatched on Netflix). Good--that's exactly how I'd handle it. Leave the scene in, add something at the beginning that prepares you if you haven't seen it, and provides a little historical context. Beyond general principles, if you took it out, you'd probably finish with a more favorable view of Roger than he deserves; that scene--a truly excruciating 60 seconds--is part of that character.

The one thing that did to come to mind--and don't read this as a slippery-slope argument against the disclaimer; I'm glad it's there--is that they probably need something similar in the episode where Joan is raped by her fiancée.

That reminds me that recently the Decades channel did a weekend marathon of the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts with every episode having a disclaimer explaining that the humor therein was accepted at the time but clearly offensive today.

I can see that...though from occasional look-in on some of those Comedy Central roasts, aren't the more recent ones even more offensive? I don't know--I fled pretty quickly.

(And speaking of roasts and excruciating, the Larry Sanders roast episode--brilliant--comes to mind.)

much like if we repolled Wire vs Sopranos, this result would change if we ran it again now

MM would win by at least 20 votes

At least, I would think. Neither series was close to finished when they did this. (Wouldn't be 118 votes...28-5 for Mad Men.)

S4 of Breaking Bad, third time through. Just sort of happened: my brother-in-law was just starting, watched a couple of episodes, had lots of time to kill over Christmas, kept going.

More later, but I've noticed an episode common to a few series: the dark-night-of-the-soul episode, where one or more characters (who may or may not be drunk or medicated) talk deep into the night as they work through some crisis. In Breaking Bad, it's S3's "The Fly," an episode I don't love--one of S3's weaker ones, I'd say--but didn't mind as much this time, mostly because of Walt's great speech where he tries to figure out the exact moment when he should have died. In Larry Sanders, it's "Arthur After Hours," the night Artie bumps Ryan O'Neal and ends up getting drunk and hanging out with the custodian. And, the most famous example, Mad Men's "The Suitcase," Don ducking the call from California about Anna Draper. There must be others--didn't think it warranted its own thread.

Bottle Episodes?

In the middle of my first Breaking Bad re-watch after binging the show in 2015. Just finished S4E2 I think.

Finished yesterday. I know the overwhelming consensus is that Better Call Saul is the better series, but if I had to choose, I'd go with Breaking Bad. I'll readily concede that BCS is the more consistent series--BB really hits a lull in S4 where Walt and Jesse's break-up-to-make-up theatrics get a little tiresome--and by gradually turning Skyler into a zombie, the show essentially loses one of its best characters the last season or so. And there are other things that nag here and there; Vince Gilligan seemed to have learned some traps to avoid by the time he launched BCS.

But Breaking Bad regularly moves me in a way that BCS doesn't. Things like Walter and Jane's father in the bar, the scene I mention above from "The Fly," Hank talking about his summer job cutting down trees, Skyler and Marie reconciling. Saul is obviously a much more shaded character in BCS, but this time it really hit me that I enjoy him more in BB; his wry exasperation with Walter and Jesse produces one great line after another (including--forget the context--"Uncle Miltie proportions").

I'll probably watch El Camino a third time before the new season of BCS (plus the most recent BCS episode--rewatched the entire last season over the summer, so I won't do that again). And then, when that finishes, I'll look at the online timeline I found and finally put everything together in my head.

If I didn't think the results would be so lopsided, I'd start a Hank Schrader/Hank Kingsley/Hank Kimball poll. Kingsley would blow past Schrader going away; except for older posters, Kimball would elicit little more than "Who?" I think they're all great.

Looks like almost three years, so I started a rewatch tonight (4th time). Did anyone ever call attention to the great (in context) last line of the first episode? "Walt--is that you?"

Finished up last night. I won't scroll back, so I'll no dout end up repeating myself, but: mostly great, so many unforgettable episode-closing scenes, and I remain in the minority (I'm guessing) who think it's better than Better Call Saul. But I find the way it ends--the last two episodes--less satisfying (Badfinger excepted) than Mad Men, The Sopranos, The Americans, Friday Night Lights, Six Feet Under, or almost any famous prestige or whatever show I've seen. I don't like the brutalization of Jesse, the murder of Andrea, or the improbability of the contraption Walt rigs up to kill Uncle Jack's crew. I don't like losing Hank for the last couple of episodes, although I know that was inevitable. There's just so much Walt near the end, at a point where he really is a creep, even when he's sort of doing the right thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06t_KP7y8Ao

Funny! I take it by implication they'd already tested a few things that didn't pass muster--"magnets," I bet.

Wonderful performances, a lovingly-crafted show in general, but “Breaking Bad” is still basically gourmet schlock. The finale is dumb, bloody wish-fulfillment for the mooks who still identified with the poor beleaguered murderous antihero. It was always gonna be that.

I think most of the way, the series does a good job of undermining/deflating Walt's "woe is me" rationalizations, primarily via Skyler (best example being her great "I have to protect this family from the man who protects this family" line). The last couple of episodes, first in Walt's admission that he really did everything for myself, then in the way he saves Jesse, it's like there's a last-minute effort to ennoble him. I guess the best you could say is that the show leaves that ambiguous; he's both hopelessly selfish and capable of doing the right thing.

"did everything for himself"--one day, far into the future, I'll author an error-free post.

I think it’s simply that Vince Gilligan’s crowd-pleasing instincts won out at the end of the day, and unfortunately the loudest contingent of the BB crowd was the Walter White fanboy chucklefucks.

He pulled the rug out from under WW and then got scared and tried to force it back under him. Which emblematic of his whole approach, and one reason why this intensely watchable show starts to break down on rewatch, whereas something like the Sopranos or Deadwood never stops getting better.

still bothers me that Gilligan never found a way to get Neil Young's "Albuquerque" on either BB or BCS.

Never thought about that--would have been perfect for Walt's trek home at the end. He did make sure to nab "Crystal Blue Persuasion" and "Baby Blue."

i'd love to see a recut of the BB finale with 13th Floor Elevators "It's All Over Now Baby Blue" instead

That's good too--even the other guy's version would have fine--but I do think "Baby Blue" was both sublime and a complete surprise.

I think it's possible to find Walter heroic and likeable (in some ways) without being a "fanboy chucklefuck"! He's a fictional character, it's 100% okay to like fictional characters who are bad. Although - I'm glad I didn't encounter any of that awful online stuff until after I'd finished watching the series.

Agree the finale is too neat and the Jesse torture storyline is risible, though.

The torture, murdering Andrea right in front of him, it seems so unnecessarily punitive for a character who actually does become a better person through the course of six seasons (and who was so caring of kids the whole way). (I'm treating him like he's a real person rather than a fictional character, but that's to the show's credit--a well-drawn character does start to feel like someone you know.)

I've started a first-ever rewatch of BB because my partner never saw it. Possibly interesting experiment in that we watched BCS together already, however we've only watched S1 of BB so the connections aren't v strong yet (and she didn't even remember Krazy-8 or Tuco; obviously when Saul, Mike and Gus show up it will be more interesting).

Anyway, in some ways so far BB is better than I remembered — when I watched it it was at peak hype and I was skeptical despite watching the whole series — and while I was previously strongly BCS>BB I'm not as sure now. For one thing, BB is funnier than I thought. It seems deeply obvious to me now that Walt & Jesse are partially modelled on a classic mixed-opposites comedy duo, but I don't remember thinking about that much the first time (this is perhaps embarrassing in retrospect). And just in general there is a strong current of slapstick/farce that is more apparent to me now. Possibly the meth context seemed so much grimmer to me back then that it overrode my sense of humor or I found it kind of gross to be doing slapstick in that world? I guess I'm more jaded now lol

That said I again found the first season weirdly paced; the pilot is brilliant, but then it feels like you're stuck in Jesse's basement for a long time. It picks up after that, but for a short season of a generally intense show that little stretch, even if it's only like two eps, is a bit of a slog. Also there are moments where Jesse strikes me as almost offensively unrealistic, like presenting a Mike Judge character as real or something, and yet it kind of works? But overall so far it's benefiting a lot, like Mad Men did too, from not watching it through a screen of grandiose acclaim (much less toxic fanboy nonsense).

oh yeah another classic complaint re S1: I had to reassure my partner that Hank and Skyler get more depth over time. Extremely obvious observation: Cranston really made the show viable

Jesse famously one of those characters who was not supposed to be part of the main cast (was gonna be killed off in those first few eps somewhere irrc), but they realized they had something with his dynamic with Walt, so makes sense that he was more of a caricature at the outset.

The iconic image in all the ads from the first season was Walt standing in his tighty whities outside the RV, so the marketing team at least was tuned in to the humor as a selling point. Also the obvious predecessor to BB subject matter-wise was Weeds, which was an outright comedy. But agreed that BB much funnier than you might expect, part of the magic of the show is how it sustains this precarious balance of humor, tension, and style that by all rights shouldn't work.

the whole tonal arc of breaking bad was it started out as an almost absurd comedy about a teacher who makes meth and winds up being one of the bleakest things ever. i agree about the final stretch of the Jesse storyline, i generally these days have a problem w/feel-bad tv series, which is a bit different than tv shows where bad things happen to characters we like. the Andrea thing felt like an unrealistic moment that only existed to show you how far Gilligan was willing to take things, and while i recognize it was only a character it kinda showed to me that these characters just existed as pieces to be taken off the board for shock points rather than making it logical. by contrast i kinda feel like Hank's final moments were more earned and a logical result of Walter's villainy and duplicity.

I always thought the pilot was odd because it kind of had to set up the whole premises of the show, I suspect it was written before everything else hence why it feels a lot different in tone. There’s some frontal nudity in it too isn’t there? Idk it probably should’ve been like 3 episodes in total.

The show does an amazing job with Hank. He starts off as a one-note, racist clown--some of his byplay with Gomey is funny--but after the Tortuga incident and then his shooting (and difficult recovery), I think he becomes a nuanced character you empathize with. (If you can't get past the early Hank, fair enough.) I also really like how both Mike and Hank come to see Jesse as a decent person, significantly more so than Walter.

(Also add Hank's brutal beatdown of Jesse to the key events that change him.)

Yes always thought so about the portrayal of Hank changed dramatically but naturally during the course of the show.

There’s a scene in the fourth or fifth season, at the end of an episode, where Hank has a long monologue laying down all the evidence about Heisenberg. It’s so riveting - even though you basically know everything already! A great scene, a great piece of acting.

I mentioned that a few days ago on a different BB thread--one of the greatest scenes of the entire run. Obviously, don't watch this if you've never seen the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiUmudjyuSw

The way he holds back the fingerprint till the last possible second, and that aw-shucks thing with his eyes at the very end--masterful acting.

Jesse famously one of those characters who was not supposed to be part of the main cast

If I ever knew that I'd forgotten it, so thanks Lavator that is actually helpful -- I feel like his back story doesn't quite add up in S1, so it makes sense.

And yeah frogbs, the pilot is very pilot-y though usually I mean that in a bad way, but here it's just really self-contained and exciting (I don't recall nudity though, would be surprising for AMC, no?) in a way where the shift into normal episode pace feels kind of rough

Hank's arc is a real achievement, yeah

I thought there was a moment where we see Jesse run out of an apartment building and we see a topless lady wave out the window. maybe I imagined that.

Hank I kinda figured was like Jesse, feels like they liked the actor enough to give the character more nuance and screentime. I also think it came out of a need to have one main character you could actually root for.

one of my favorite moments early on is when they go to Tuco's place and Hector is there. nothing about the Salamancas has been revealed nor has the overall tone of the show really, so Hector's character comes off as this bizarre Lynchian thing. you don't know if he's lost his mind or not. but you assume he's just a weird one-episode character. and then he winds up being very central to the entire plot.

and yes that scene with Hank is amazing, love how he goes Columbo at the end

You're remembering the woman from the first episode correctly--she's only on-screen for three or four seconds.

I never get tired of Lydia.

I thought there was a moment where we see Jesse run out of an apartment building and we see a topless lady wave out the window. maybe I imagined that.

No, it's there (although maybe only on the DVD/Blus): When we first see Jesse, we get a brief glimpse of the nude older woman he'd just been hooking up with. A weird footnote: The actress playing her, Linda Speciale, is probably most famous for starring as the 'Good Girl' in the early '80s Cult Teen Sex Comedy Screwballs.

i think BB really did a great job of flipping who you were supposed to be rooting for as the show progressed. at the start, you've got this cancer-stricken patient taking on major drug cartels and slipping under the police force. by the end, you want hank to catch his man and walt getting every awful thing coming his way.

not impt but I misread frog's post and for some mysterious reason thought he meant full frontal Walt

and yes that scene with Hank is amazing, love how he goes Commando at the end

I've not watched BB for some years, but my instinct is that BCS's subtler character study structure is no match for the sheer power of its parent show's bulldozing narrative drive.

The thing I remember being most impressed with as the seasons unfolded was its fearlessness when it came to upending the status quo and raising the stakes, something very rare in long form TV. The Sopranos is of course brilliant, but is a pristine insect frozen in amber compared to BB's rampaging dinosuar.

My instinct is also that it won't hold up as well on a rewatch (very much unlike the Sopranos), but I'm certainly due one in the next few years.

I feel like Mad Men hasn't had quite the legacy or cultural impact which may have been predicted at one point, though I certainly loved it for at least three or four seasons.

The thing I remember being most impressed with as the seasons unfolded was its fearlessness when it came to upending the status quo and raising the stakes, something very rare in long form TV. The Sopranos is of course brilliant, but is a pristine insect frozen in amber compared to BB's rampaging dinosuar.

This is really otmfm and what I loved so much about BB. Every time I started to feel like I knew where things were going and settled in to watch them unfold, they would just kick into hyperdrive and get there immediately, pivoting in some new direction that prevented things from ever feeling stale. With the obvious exception being Hank figuring it out, which they kept as an insanely effective, agonizingly slow burn over practically the whole show (though then when he does finally figure it out, the way his interactions with Walt go immediately afterwards are a great example of the former approach).

I think BCS actually equalled the highs of BB in say seasons 2-3, when it was really its own thing with a major focus on the machinations of the legal world, doubling down on the character study structure that you note. But after Chuck died and they started having to focus on moving the drug plot forward and tying the threads together, with the clock ticking towards the end of the show, it became more of an inferior version of BB (though the peaks are still many and sublime).

These are just my recollections having never done a rewatch of either

It really lost its way for at least a season after Chuck died, agreed.

As for the peaks you mention - the mall heist episode in the final season is as exciting an hour of TV as any BB produced.

absolutely. really right from the beginning BCS was killer at those methodical, procedural stretches. With Jonathan Banks of course but also Odenkirk. Remembering when he was editing those documents to change the address on the Mesa Verde paperwork, it was almost like they were gleefully attacking the challenge of "how boring a series of actions can we make riveting if we film them beautifully enough and have them carried out by a maximally entertaining character"

there's a very good recent podcast called Best Quality Vacuum where they're rewatching and critiquing BB episode by episode. Well worth a listen. Amazing to think the first eps of BB came out 16 years ago and to consider how much America and the world have changed since

But after Chuck died and they started having to focus on moving the drug plot forward and tying the threads together, with the clock ticking towards the end of the show, it became more of an inferior version of BB (though the peaks are still many and sublime).

personally I dont think it was inferior at all. maybe because I found Jimmy/Saul to be a much more fun lead than Walter and Lalo to be a better villain than Gus. also the fact that it was not as heart-poundingly intense as BB was. though it did get there. I do agree though once they got to the "putting all the pieces together" stage it did become less compelling

Remembering when he was editing those documents to change the address on the Mesa Verde paperwork, it was almost like they were gleefully attacking the challenge of "how boring a series of actions can we make riveting if we film them beautifully enough and have them carried out by a maximally entertaining character"

been rewatching some of the Saul Goodman clips from BB and in one of the first ones where he's talking to Badger and mixes him up with a public masterbator he says something like "just a little transpositional error, nothing a little white out can't fix"...kinda wonder knowing these guys if the whole idea for that plot came from that line

Amazing

The blurring continues.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/04/americas/narcocorrido-mexico-bands-us-trump-intl-latam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHF0xlf-bjY