quiet people vs people who cant shut up

they generally dislike each other, right?

quite so

ooops, i meant quiet, not quite.

I'm generally quiet and I hate people who can't shut up.

sometime they complete each other, sometimes they dislike each other, sometimes they have sex with each other.

yeah i'm p much with beckett when he said “Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness”

". "

I react to the environment -- if it's too quiet, I turn into Chester Chatterbox.

aka my mom vs. my dad.

(that's an exaggeration, but in social settings it's pretty much true.)

i can be either -- i inherited both genes -- but lean more toward my mom's chatterbox side probably. in general, people who talk too much annoy me, and people who don't talk enough make me suspicious.

"and people who don't talk enough make me suspicious."

most of the times they are just shy

what do they say about serial killers? it's never, "oh, he was so chatty." always quiet.

Hanibal was chatty!

Doctor hunts for motive in brain of a serial killer
She has found what she calls "a cookie-cutter syndrome," a striking similarity in serial killers: They tend to be hypochondriacs, chatty, remorseless men ...

the act of posting on a message board sort of indicates at least mild identification with the "can't shut up" camp, doesn't it, in substance if not in style

there might be seventy lurkers reading that, though

Serial Killers prefer blogging.

"chatty, remorseless men" does sound like a profile of yr average anonymous newspaper-site commenter

Both are frequently just people who miss the social cues to behave otherwise, right? In case of shyness I guess it's not so much "miss" as "feel unable to respond to." Whereas people who can't shut up usu either miss or ignore the silence, strained looks, or conversational exit-ramps of those around them.

Serial Killers prefer blogging.

this post is parlayable into a book deal imo

If you are of the breed that never shuts up, you had better be damned entertaining IMO

most of the times they are just shy

really don't like that word, or the implied judgment, that i want to or could blossom into a regular garrulous party animal, that that's the best way to be.

(not that yr necessarily making that implication, z. but that's what i read into it and that's what lots of people think.)

"chatty, remorseless men" does sound like a profile of yr average anonymous newspaper-site commenter

and like an unused lyric from something off of Paris 1919

I was going to say The National.

i was gonna say 'parklife'

conversational exit-ramps

i worked with one woman who would literally keep talking to the back of your head once you completely turned around and were no longer looking, nodding at or in any way acknowledging her presence. sometimes i'd make a phone call just to get her to please shut up ... and then as soon as i hung up she'd pick up right where she left off.

xp i am not my sister publications's keeper

dammit wrong thread

i am not my sister publications's keeper

^^^ Bowie lyric circa Lodger, second side.

i think Bowie's cool, i think Lodger rules, my step dad's fool

most of the times they are just shy
really don't like that word, or the implied judgment, that i want to or could blossom into a regular garrulous party animal

(on the other hand, on the rare occasions I can think of a relevant anecdote, I like to spend a second or two mentally deciding on the best way to tell it, in which time one of those Won't Shut Up people has generally started a new conversation about something unrelated and it's too late)

i can talk and stuff but i'm no good at monologues and so with a quiet person i'm really bad as i am not good at being the conversation starter. people who don't shut up are easier to deal with but can often be v dull.

they should all just become more normal

more quite. less very

i am a person that cant shut up

xp to spacecadet, definitely with you on the second there. first one - well nice in theory but if these garrulous types start prodding you to make you 'come out of your shell' (another expression i hate) then that can be pretty awkward.

i like this article about shyness vs. introversion, i don't think it's as binary as he makes out, but still some good points in there:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/2696/

quite quiet people + people who can't quite shut up

If people at work are having a conversation and I'm kind of roped into it by proximity, my style is usually to listen in, seemingly aloof, and then throw in a joke. Somehow this has gained me the rep of a comic genius. My version of the quiet verse, loud chorus technique.

there is a kind of dialectical relationship between these two alleged 'types'

i find myself talking too much (and therefore about me and my opinions) if the other person is quiet/boring

If people at work are having a conversation and I'm kind of roped into it by proximity, my style is usually to listen in, seemingly aloof, and then throw in a joke. Somehow this has gained me the rep of a comic genius. My version of the quiet verse, loud chorus technique.

This is my ILX posting style in a nutshell. Without the "rep of a comic genius" part, of course.

i worked with one woman who would literally keep talking to the back of your head once you completely turned around and were no longer looking, nodding at or in any way acknowledging her presence. sometimes i'd make a phone call just to get her to please shut up ... and then as soon as i hung up she'd pick up right where she left off.

heh i more or less quit a job because of a similar situation

I once had a patient who talked non-stop for at least 11.75 hours out of a 12 hour shift. I didn't learn anything about her, her family, her interests, or her condition (just general mobility problems, nothing else to speak of.) It was just...just noise, a random series of sentences going straight from the brain to the mouth to fill up the day. And the TV was blasting a shopping channel non-stop the entire time. I was scheduled to go back there a couple of days later--I called my agency with a made-up excuse the next day and never went back there again.

was on holiday last week and one friend of a friend just would not shut up. it was like a constant barrage. shes quite nice, but she was obv uncomfortable with silence, whereas with me i need a bit of thinking time if i dont know someone that well otherwise i feel like im being talked at. with her i sense its a bit of an aggressively upbeat front, like she always has to be in control (i wont bore anyone with examples of this) but i found it a bit exhausting (never mind that i felt i never really learnt anything about her, cos she seems quite guarded - the torrent of chat seems to be a way to avoid revealing anything). not that im always ultra quiet or anything, but unless its people i know well, im more comfortable in a group situation where i know i can inject regular quips/one liners and look hilarious (as someone else said).

told myself the relentless chat was obv to combat nerves at being around such a handsome specimen but this may not be 100% correct

title fixed

I can go either way but tend to the chatty side, get very excitable. Sometimes in a busy social situation I hit hyperdrive, and it can take a while to readjust if there's a sudden downshift. Having some quiet peeps & some chatty ones in the same group is a small strain b/c I'm aware that I'm not tailoring my responses to what each party needs.

I'm the quiet type, and back when I had co-workers, got pretty good at using silence and a flat dead stare as surgical tools against jabberers.

^ born to mod

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff220/dukefightmaster/stare.jpg

^ what the baby in who framed roger rabbit looks like now

If people at work are having a conversation and I'm kind of roped into it by proximity, my style is usually to listen in, seemingly aloof, and then throw in a joke. Somehow this has gained me the rep of a comic genius. My version of the quiet verse, loud chorus technique.

This is my ILX posting style in a nutshell. Without the "rep of a comic genius" part, of course.

― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 6 September 2010 14:00 (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol seconded

thinking about it it is kind of my irl style also, maybe save for a few sort of placeholder interjections a la Dudley Moore on the Derek & Clive records (again except not funny)

I am quiet AND actually quiet, in that my voice just doesn't carry in groups of say 6 or more people or at parties. So I've quite often made some brilliant zing with no response and then 10 seconds later someone else will say the EXACT SAME THING, loudly, and everyone laughs, high-fives, etc. I have in the past become paranoid that this is some horrible group dig at me and have kind of given up trying unless I happen to not mind looking like an idiot in that particular situation.

Kind of surprised no-one's said that can't-shut-up people LOVE quiet people! This is especially pronounced w/ kids, we moved a year five class up to year six recently and the kids got to specify one friend they wanted to stay in the same class as - the kids who NEVER TALK were the most popular by a mile.

really? i get the sense a lot of cant shut up people dont like quiet people as it makes them feel self conscious. or they think quietness = weakness.

well there are probably exploitative quiet-chatty friendships, where the talker is just keeping the quiet one around as a doormat, but there's also symbiotic ones. where the quiet one serves sort of as a wordless wingman, nodding or smiling or just providing implicit support for whatever the talker is saying.

for example:

http://boozeworthy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jay-and-silent-bob.jpg

I'm a quiet guy, at least, when I'm in professional environments (work) or environments that I'm not comfortable in. I don't mind talkative people, I have appreciation for people who are enthusiastic.

What I can't stand is when I'm sitting quietly and don't want to talk, and they want to talk my ear off, and say things like "come onnnnnn, you're sitting here all by yourseeeeeeeelf, I feel baaaaaaaaaaad". Yea, talking to me as if I'm a pathetic being helps -- if I'm sitting quietly I'm just as likely to be peacefully taking everything in as much as I am to be miserably wallowing by myself.

It's like, don't force your chatterboxxery on me, that's like me going up to you at a party and saying "WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT UP???".

yeah San Te I feel the same way (i'm a pretty quiet guy as well)

It's like, don't force your chatterboxxery on me, that's like me going up to you at a party and saying "WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT UP???".

lol A+

also, I hate the whole quiet person = serial killer/weirdo thing, it's really annoying. I don't feel the need to speak when there's nothing much to speak about, that doesn't make me a psycho geesh. If someone tries to start a conversation with me I'm certainly open to that, I'm not totally anti-social, it's just I like keeping to myself :|

There was a dude I worked with who barely spoke a word to anyone, and the Serial Killer thing was constantly brought up--almost always by the female employees, who found the guy threatening, even though he displayed no sexual or aggressive impulses whatsoever. He was just way withdrawn. All the irrational fear was based on this moronic quiet Serial Killer stereotype. It got so bad that people would spy on the guy, trying to glean any data. We found out he liked to read Horror novels--Clive Barker and whatnot--which of course added to everyone's slasher fantasies.

Finally there was a really creepy incident in which the guy's mom showed up and talked to the manager. Apparently he refused to talk to her (his mom) because when he was young a guy she was shacking up with molested him and she refused to leave the boyfriend even after she found out. (I know--real Bastard Out of Carolina stuff.) Now, a decade plus later, she was trying to make amends--and asked the manager to give her son a message from her. Well, the manager did, but not before telling everyone everything because she was part of the whole Serial Killer gossip ring. When the guy found out his mom had come into his workplace he flipped out a bit and asked to take a week off. Shortly after that he transferred to Chicago.

Even though the incident gave insight into the dude's personality, for a long time after he left you'd still hear stuff like "I'm glad that serial killer guy isn't hear anymore. I didn't feel safe around him." Seriously, fuck these herd mentality well-adjusted types.

that whole story is o_O but i have to say, if a bunch of women all think a dude is creepy, i am inclined to think there's something to it.

Part I left out is that my close female friend hung out with him a bit and found him very shy and gentlemanly. His favorite band was Pulp, however, which is fairly creepy.

The thing is that the perceived creepiness was never based on anything tangible like "he stares at me" or "he mutters under his breath" but wholly around the idea that he didn't seem to want to engage with their brilliant personalities even when they gave him an opening. He was also an extremely attractive fellow, which was often noted when he first arrived.

imo 80% off the people labeled creepy aren't creeps at all and the true creepy people often don't get slapped with the label because they often have characteristics that are more 'mainstream'.

much much much much much prefer quiet types. especially girls. the guys who cant stop talking you always risk being labelled called rude when you're constantly looking at your watch, at a door, at other people - anything, everything, whatever nudge of movement to signify you want to leave. god i hate them.

otm. and these types always want to draw attention to you. sarcastic ribbing like "hey you need to be quiet, you talk too much!" or "we won't bite". for the latter, I find saying "yea, well I do" often is a good retort, albeit one taht will get garlic and crucifixes thrust at you.

San Te: I hate the term 'creepy.' Hate hate hate it. It's been used to demonize people with out-of-the-mainstream interests for the last ten years, and I wish it would stop.

that whole story is o_O but i have to say, if a bunch of women all think a dude is creepy, i am inclined to think there's something to it.

― horseshoe, 06 September 2010 23:24 (Yesterday)

that's kind of a fairly O_o sentiment in itself imo?

xpost it's the term that had me petrified to even approach a female to ask her out because of fear that they'd react in a way that made me feel subhuman. I mean I'll admit that reaction was an overcorrection, but when people in high school said I looked like the type that would "pick people off with a shotgun from rooftops" (an actual quote from someone my senior year), it got annoying fast. Sometimes I wanted to shoot people just to go "YEA SO WHAT????".

not to mention 'creepy' has a sliding scale -- ie, if a gorgeous specimen of male, not a normal/average-looking guy like me, displayed the same behavior, funny how the 'creepy' whispers never occurred then, no?

I thought that one SNL black adn white office sketch with Tom Brady was actually OTM.

True. Gorgeous quiet dudes are thoughtful and deep.

Normal looking quiet guys had better learn how to play guitar.

and i'm definitely not the former. last night i went karaoking with my brother and he there was a mixup with his credit card and someone elses and the person asked about whose card he had been given, and the bartender (referring to my brother) said "he was the REALLY CUTE guy rapping on stage with the other guy". I was the 'other guy' :(.

lol actually I'm not real sad about it I found it funny

us ugly dudes better be able to sing on top tbh

actually me being not-so-hot is where I developed my cynical sense of humor that actually endeared a lot of people to me later in life.

if someone says you're the type to pick people off with a shotgun, from rooftops, then that's doubly insulting cause it implies you're too stupid to use a rifle like most rooftop people pickers would use

lol

this guy was also one who told me he had more "psychological power" than me once.

Quiet people embarrass me, because I'm the chatty one and then I'll realize I've been talking for a while and they still SEEM to be interested but what if they're just polite and I'M the jerk? And also there's this cultural assumption that talkers like talking about themselves b/c it makes them feel important/feeds the ego, and then I'm embarrassed if I seem like that's what I'm doing, because I'd RATHER have a more active conversation but it hasn't materialized so obv I haven't hit the right button w that person, haven't drawn them out....

i think i would love talking to you, laurel, and if you talked too much i would just interrupt you and then you could interrupt back whenever you liked and i would not take offense. there's nothing wrong with people being quiet but sometimes i get irritated with social vampires who expect to be entertained without effort and then get judgmental when the entertainment provided isn't 100% to their liking.

YES

it's why i stopped throwing tea parties for my teddy bears in fact

that whole story is o_O but i have to say, if a bunch of women all think a dude is creepy, i am inclined to think there's something to it.

― horseshoe, 06 September 2010 23:24 (Yesterday)

that's kind of a fairly O_o sentiment in itself imo?

― k¸ (darraghmac), Monday, September 6, 2010 8:12 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

¯\(°_o)/¯

yeah true i suppose

i'm pretty quiet but after i've had a few drinks i'm much more sociable. i'm a good party guest -- if i'm having a good time, i engage with others, and if i'm not, i'd rather leave gracefully than be sullen and ranty.

i never shut up and i identify very much with Laurel's post upthread. i can shut up if i try really hard; i wish quiet people who are annoyed would tell me so.

i rarely get annoyed at talkative people, just those who give me a hard time. a party has to have its lively members.

I used to have a friend who was quiet-ish not one-on-one but in groups, and she used to make me feel bad for talking too much. Esp when she perceived that I'd cut her off or closed a door for her and I was trying to leave it open but she wouldn't take the opportunity and then I'd go back to being chatty because they were my friends and I was excited, and.... Eventually she friend-broke up with me. Lovely being the outlet for other people's insecurities.

Lovely being the outlet for other people's insecurities.

Sounds like life, actually.

I'm much more talkative in groups rather than one-on-one.

since i have fixed my medical condition i sometimes blab like a speed freak now. but i generally run hot and cold. i can be really quiet and i can be talkative. depends on my mood.

i was at a cafe with the kids and i witnessed one of those early stage couples or early dates, one or the other, and the guy just kept going on and on and on and the girl just sat there and nodded or said "uh huh" and it made me feel bad for her. but maybe she just didn't have anything to say. or maybe she was sleepy. who knows?

I'm a longtime quiet introvert and I found out a LONG time ago that when people don't know much about you they go ahead and make stuff up. How it happens, I don't know. But onne day one of the few people who do know you will inform you that everybody else in the office (school, neighborhood, it's happened with them all) takes it as common knowledge that you're a satanist or something else completely off the wall.

i can be either -- i inherited both genes -- but lean more toward my mom's chatterbox side probably. in general, people who talk too much annoy me, and people who don't talk enough make me suspicious.

― a tenth level which features a single castle (tipsy mothra), Monday, September 6, 2010 9:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

this, is me. however whenever I talk too much I always feel like I'm giving myself enough rope. so I try, consciously, to stay on the quiet side.

it's good to leave people wondering... a little mystery is good (too much mystery makes you a weirdo).

lol I remember finding out after high school that everybody thought of me as the "quiet, mysterious" type...same thing at college too, I guess. wonder if anybody thought of me as the serial killer type.

¯\(°_o)/¯

"It's better to be silent and to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt..." (or something like this...)

Can't remember who said/wrote it

Quiet people embarrass me, because I'm the chatty one and then I'll realize I've been talking for a while and they still SEEM to be interested but what if they're just polite and I'M the jerk? And also there's this cultural assumption that talkers like talking about themselves b/c it makes them feel important/feeds the ego, and then I'm embarrassed if I seem like that's what I'm doing, because I'd RATHER have a more active conversation but it hasn't materialized so obv I haven't hit the right button w that person, haven't drawn them out....

― Q: What's small, clumsy, and slow? A: A toddler. (Laurel), Monday, September 6, 2010 8:24 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OTM. This is exactly how I feel.

was voted 2nd most mysterious person in the school paper right before graduation. i consider it an accomplishment that people even knew my name enough to scribe my name down anyway (school population was over 3,000 kids)

What about this behavior of some(young) women with men they don't know well: hardly speaking, noncommittal answers, shrugs, etc., though not unfriendly. In other words, accommodating but exasperatingly passive. I could never resist grumbling that they were forcing the guy to show his hand first.

I hardly think that's exclusively behaviour of one gender over the other.

Kasper Gutman: You're a close-mouthed man?

Sam Spade: Nah, I like to talk.

Kasper Gutman: Better and better. I distrust a close-mouthed man. He generally picks the wrong time to talk and says the wrong things. Talking's something you can't do judiciously, unless you keep in practice.
[sits back]

Kasper Gutman: Now, sir. We'll talk, if you like. I'll tell you right out, I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk.

"What about this behavior of some(young) women with men they don't know well: hardly speaking, noncommittal answers, shrugs, etc., though not unfriendly. In other words, accommodating but exasperatingly passive. I could never resist grumbling that they were forcing the guy to show his hand first."

or the opposite. where they bury you with speech so you have no choice but to talk complete crap just in an attempt to stay afloat.

if you're a chatterbox it can be quite an experience to spend a few days speaking another language. for me it's like i'm slowed down to normal speed. i have to ask myself - is what i'm saying WORTH it, worth the trouble of everyone struggling a bit to understand me? very very often the answer is no! the lovely Emma B says she likes me more in these situations which is a bit chastening.. (she says i am a "pipelet" otherwise)

i think it's probably worthwhile for people at either end of this spectrum to make an effort to develop the other side. it's just useful, for social situations. i was a pretty shy teenager - that thing common w/people who communicate best in writing, where you spend so much time overthinking the exact words to use when you want to say something that the moment usually passes - but i'm quite garrulous as an adult. in group settings i like to talk a lot rather than fade into the background. though not always! in some situations i can still be shy, but learning how often people confuse shy and aloof has been useful, in that when i feel tongue-tied, knowing that people might take it as aloof rather than awkward is reassuring. and lol vice versa, when i don't feel like talking to people they can put it down to shyness.

in one-on-one settings there's no excuse for any really disproportionate imbalance imo. if you find that you've been talking talking talking for the past 5 minutes and the other person hasn't said much, what you do there is ASK THEM ABOUT THEMSELVES so you're not monopolising things so much. it's only polite. and if you haven't said much then what you do is damn well THINK OF SOMETHING TO SAY so the other person doesn't have to fill in every gap.

otm

when i feel tongue-tied, knowing that people might take it as aloof rather than awkward is reassuring

yes!

there are times when I just do not have anything to say and feel like a drain on the conversation and an awful boring person - it has been hard training myself to just get really comfortable with silence instead, but it's kind of funny when you notice the other person getting unnerved by it.

"comfortable silence" - we have to be pretty good friends for this to be an option. (i mean, when it is, it's great, it's almost like a sign of good friendship)

i don't really buy into the introvert/extravert binary tbh, i have my moments when i want to see and talk to no one for a day, and i have my moments when i'm ready to hold court before THE WHOLE WORLD

i think i would love talking to you, laurel, and if you talked too much i would just interrupt you and then you could interrupt back whenever you liked and i would not take offense. there's nothing wrong with people being quiet but sometimes i get irritated with social vampires who expect to be entertained without effort and then get judgmental when the entertainment provided isn't 100% to their liking.

― estela, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 01:43 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

YES

― k¸ (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 September 2010 01:44 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's why i stopped throwing tea parties for my teddy bears in fact

― k¸ (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 September 2010 01:44 (8 hours ago) Bookmark

this whole exchange is a heady melange of OTM, <3 and lol

when i feel tongue-tied, knowing that people might take it as aloof rather than awkward is reassuring

yes!

no!

apparently a few people i'm now good friends with thought i was aloof to the point of rudeness on first meetings, when i was just being quiet/reserved. this can't be a good thing.

no but you see - sometimes you're going to feel tongue-tied, that can't be helped, but it's really nice for your pride to think 'i don't look inarticulate and terrified i look ALOOF'

my best friend is the dictionary definition of 'aloof' and I am the dictionary definition of 'too much' and we dovetail beautifully

tmi

"in one-on-one settings there's no excuse for any really disproportionate imbalance imo. if you find that you've been talking talking talking for the past 5 minutes and the other person hasn't said much, what you do there is ASK THEM ABOUT THEMSELVES so you're not monopolising things so much. it's only polite. and if you haven't said much then what you do is damn well THINK OF SOMETHING TO SAY so the other person doesn't have to fill in every gap."

good advice.

Seriously, fuck these herd mentality well-adjusted types.

― Mel Gibson, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty & the current King of Sweden (President Keyes), Monday, 6 September 2010 23:20 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that whole story is o_O but i have to say, if a bunch of women all think a dude is creepy, i am inclined to think there's something to it.

― horseshoe, Monday, 6 September 2010 23:24 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

just loled slightly there.

Threads very much in character

talkative cats are talkative, reserved cats are reserved

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmv-3LUmvBTEvFxFcBCotoRXHj8UdFFFBCKfsneVdAKg1QCdQ&t=1&usg=__tqg-dwqj08y330bAWXkW-1pIEZ8=

I dance on the threshold between 'good listener' and 'time to pull your weight now, mate!' Certainly worried that people might misinterpret my relative silence as standoffishness.

forest of aspies

dayo otm, for better or for worse!

what you do is damn well THINK OF SOMETHING TO SAY

yeah, and if you're depressed, just pull yourself together!

bit of a jump there tbh

in quantity not quality. srsly can't imagine anyone with a degree of empathy thinking that's a helpful thing to say.

there is a degree to whether you value making inane conversation that neither people really are interested in just for the lack of silence. sometimes it's not a matter of ability but will. if you're sitting with someone that you're never really going to get on with, the fact that you're talking junk at each other doesn't really mean you're getting along with them better.

talking is fun. covers up the awful nonsense that other people spend their time yapping about. sometimes i worry that i am being a weirdo blowhard, but i have to keep myself entertained somehow, right?

yeah, and if you're depressed, just pull yourself together!

o_0 recognised medical condition vs. common human trait that everyone feels at some point but that it's worth putting in a bit of effort to overcome because making conversation, esp one-on-one, is a necessary social skill. even if it's just small talk it's just common courtesy. it's so lame just to go "oh i'm bad at making conversation" or "oh i'm just shy" and then just not even TRY to overcome it, when it's something that'll benefit you as much as anyone else. life is about self-improvement imo, not resigning yourself to shit that handicaps you. i used to be shy, it took lots of mental effort to change that, and my life is a lot, lot better now.

obv i'm not saying that one can't feel shy or be quiet in some situations, but in basic one-on-one encounters i do feel that you need to pull your weight a bit.

I sympathise with the "stop moping you fucker and say something" feeling and I wouldn't equate shyness with depression but I do think they're both largely genetic traits that people can't do a lot to avoid. Agreed you shd try tho.

xxp i think you underestimate the difficulty some people have with this. as though 'think of something to say' is some kind of magic cure-all revelation that we were too daft to realise.

making conversation, esp one-on-one, is a necessary social skill. even if it's just small talk it's just common courtesy

do you really think this is going to be news to the chronically shy?

it is very difficult to see, from the bottom of the pit of self-loathing/anxiety/depression/etc. how anything you could possibly say might make anything better, for anyone, ever. so yes, lex, what you say is true, but it is not true in a useful, actionable way. good advice cannot overwhelm evil thoughts.

^^^good points from lex, though sometimes i really just do not feel like talking as i am/can be a moody shit. also sometimes people who just dont stfu and think every second should involve speech (i hate being talked at or people just rambling on about fuck all) make me feel under pressure to speak which i dont appreciate. vice versa, when im chatting and other people seem to exhibit no response, i get annoyed lol. but yes, life is about self improvement.

closer to lex than ledge on this one

Pro tip: Booze

xp which, y'know, should help solve any difficulties you're having with this O_o.

what i wanna master is becoming one of these people who i suspect are a bit shy but somehow manage to cover it up (though i think i can still notice it despite the facade) with a superior shit talking (or just talking for talkings sake) ability as if in an attempt to ensure no one could ever possibly think that they are/were shy.

I mostly fit into the can't shut up bracket tho I can go v quiet in certain circumstances. Also I am v different in a group to one on one. I feel like sometimes people who are quieter are a good match for talkers because the talker can express what both people are feeling (sometimes)

what i wanna master is becoming one of these people who i suspect are a bit shy but somehow manage to cover it up (though i think i can still notice it despite the facade) with a superior shit talking (or just talking for talkings sake) ability as if in an attempt to ensure no one could ever possibly think that they are/were shy.

Don't buy that "secret introvert" bollocks tbh. You are what you do imo

well yes, but there's not much worse than people that come out with 'of course i'm actually a very [shy person' when they're actually just smug

rooney tripping out as another cole cross floats by

xpost

Sure. When I have trouble starting a convo I wd compare it to wheels spinning in mud, like I wanna start talking but the more I think about it the more stuck I get. But once I know somebody at all I am total gobshite surprise surprise. Have learned to reign it in a bit with age/sobriety.

was that last post meant to be on the Euro 2012 thread?

"Don't buy that "secret introvert" bollocks tbh. You are what you do imo"

possibly.

xp, no, just tryin to start conversation

i think the introvert/extrovert thing is too often presented as an either/or....i am definitely etraverted in the sense that at work and with friends i talk a lot, do stupid things for attention etc, but when i get home and when i am in my flat i am like silent/in my room/don't speak to anyone if possible, love doing things on my own in silence.

etraverted...hmmm

yes to all that

yeah it sums me up too

COURSE I'M A SHY PERSON REALLY

on the inside the clown is weeping

time was you could kick a clown in the street

which would explain the weeping i guess

on the inside the clown is masturbating liek a chimp on speed

on the inside the clown is a paedophile priest

on the inside the clown is creepy as agreed by lots of women

Must be hard if you're an introvert priest and you just have to sit in the confession box grunting

^ good example here of a string of people that can't shut up tbh

there's nothing wrong with people being quiet but sometimes i get irritated with social vampires who expect to be entertained without effort and then get judgmental when the entertainment provided isn't 100% to their liking.

haha :(
those "social vampires" are probably just sitting there thinking "o christ i can't think of anything to say, this is excruciating, they must think i am a serial killer"

(uh, I don't get judgmental to anyone's faces about the entertainment, but maybe being judgmental on this here ILX thread counts, I've done some of that I guess. and will probably do some more later! if I can get my thoughts down to a readable post length. the ridiculousness of this inverse proportion is not lost on me)

maybe the judgemental people would prefer the "entertainment" provided not to be there at all? can then maybe read a book.

i mean, it's equally irritating to self indulgently talk shit that nobody cares about thinking you're providing some important public service

see search results of my ilx posts for examples

I am glad of the existence of chatty people, cz I can't do that stuff! I only don't like:

1. when I can't get a word in because they're right there at the end of everyone else's sentences, cutting off any back-and-forth with, like, "I have a new shirt!" (inevitable and necessary every so often but p. annoying if it's someone's only conversational mode)

2. when they are twice as loud as everyone else in public (in the pub last Friday, twice-as-loud dude breaking out the toilet humour, didn't see someone important from my work there until they gave me a funny look and left - now regret my fixed fake expression of hilarity)

3. when I am in work and I cannot think because someone is giving a running commentary on every last thing, reading out emails, narrating every mouse-click, etc

and some of my best nights out and best friendships have started when someone chattier has spotted me wallflowering and dragged me into the conversation, but asking quiet people questions they might feel like answering >>>> "cheer up, it might never happen" or "cat got yr tongue"

"why are you reading in a pub?" :D

I can be either end of the quiet/talky spectrum depending how comfortable I am in people's company, so if I've bored the arse off you that means I like you :)

I sometimes have this awkward thing where someone has asked me a bunch of stuff (that I'm happy to answer) then I realise it's all been one way then I don't know what to ask them. I don't like asking personal questions as I feel anyone who wants to let me know their personal business will initiate that conversation. I can't just ask them what they asked me as it feels like ticking off a list. This means I rarely know anyone's juicy gossip/scandal.

In answer to "quiet people vs people who cant shut up" I think on the whole I prefer quiet people, though I like them to be comfortable in their quietness.

All too familiar with the list-ticking feeling. Ho hum.

i really meant that i don't mind quiet people, i like a lot of them a lot, and i love being alone in silence, the kind of people i'm complaining about are people who actively seek talkers out, and hang around them, and get them to provide the entertainment, and then bitch about them as if they're superior. and the people i'm defending are actually entertaining, they're not bores going on about how last week they bought a large cannelloni at a deli for $4 and cut it in two and ate half for lunch that day with a bit of salad and saved the rest for the next day.

Well thats all about clicking innit. If it feels that forced its someone you dont click with cnversationally with. When you do click, you realise youve just spent an hour blabbing without trying. And I say that as a person who's had plenty of painful awkward quiet meetings.

xp

sometimes the 'list checking' thing has to happen to find some common ground

Yeah but sometimes this is in conversations with people I've known for years!

Don't buy that "secret introvert" bollocks tbh. You are what you do imo

Suspect I overplayed the universality of my experience somewhat, but, well, yeah.

underplayed it, ime

as in- yeah meeting work/new people- nobody ever wants to go intoa room with them and be sociable and i don't believe that it's a preferred or easy option for the majority of people.

If I am what I do, then I am both socially awkward and socially capable depending on venue.

Well yeah being stupidly hung up on the PoMo I wd say this is the human experience in general.

it's like being left alone with older relatives at a wedding

To repeat an earlier point, booze is fucking key here.

In them or in you, doesn't really matter tbh

The real skill is getting two quiet people to talk to one another, so you can scoot off to a different cluster and become a passenger in another conversation (until you get paired off with another quiet person). If you viewed it from above, in time lapse, weddings and work dos would look like Conway's Life.

or getting annoyed with the silences and moving on to the next group- brownedoffagain motion

Well, clicking is nice but it's not always all or nothing - e.g. if I'm in a conversation which is 70% clicking, that's a pretty unusually good ratio for me, but may well be an unusually awkward one for the other person - and these things are best shut out of yr mind or you freeze and it all falls apart, but sometimes they nag at you while you are stumbling through your "so, how've you been"s

xposts

usually using the "comedy grenade" style of conversational participation

good phrase, never heard it before, it's a favourite technique of mine too.

I am super quiet (although I have progressed from my late teens and early twenties when I pretty much couldn't speak to people at all), and have some super chatty friends who balance me out well. Unless there are lots of them around, in which case I'm reduced to observer, which I'm okay with anyway. The comment earlier about thinking of something relevant to pipe in with but then having the chatty folks run the conversation in another direction before you can find a gap strikes a mighty chord.

it's so lame just to go "oh i'm bad at making conversation" or "oh i'm just shy" and then just not even TRY to overcome it, when it's something that'll benefit you as much as anyone else. life is about self-improvement imo, not resigning yourself to shit that handicaps you. i used to be shy, it took lots of mental effort to change that, and my life is a lot, lot better now.

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, September 7, 2010 7:02 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I agree with lex here, but definitely acknowledge that it is hard hard work, and it probably will get worse before it gets better. I feel I'm much better than I was 5 years ago, and part of that has to do with gaining more self esteem, but no way am I batting even .250 in all social situations. but I'm still trying.

i really meant that i don't mind quiet people, i like a lot of them a lot, and i love being alone in silence, the kind of people i'm complaining about are people who actively seek talkers out, and hang around them, and get them to provide the entertainment, and then bitch about them as if they're superior.

wait but if they don't speak how do they bitch?

Makaton

:)

it's so lame just to go "oh i'm bad at making conversation" or "oh i'm just shy" and then just not even TRY to overcome it, when it's something that'll benefit you as much as anyone else. life is about self-improvement imo, not resigning yourself to shit that handicaps you. i used to be shy, it took lots of mental effort to change that, and my life is a lot, lot better now.

I think that lots of people with social anxiety TRY to overcome it. Some do, some don't. I tried being a teacher for a few years and came away from each class a ball of insanity--and eventually realized that I was never going to get comfortable talking to people I didn't know. Self improvement is one thing, but beating your head against a wall because you think it will make you the way that other people want you to be is lame too. And it's gross that people expect you to do it.

the lovely Emma B says she likes me more in these situations which is a bit chastening.

Yowch! Likewise, my favorite Balkan thinks my idea of sociable chat is "superficial" -- I ignore this and chatter on anyway. I too hate the obligatory "How was yr weekend?" "Oh fine, we went to the shore and then hung up some wall shelves" etc etc that happens in the workplace on say Monday mornings, but he's talking about my own spirited chatter with friends about pop culture, media, stuff that is admittedly transitory.

Honestly I think there's a language barrier where people are shut out of the really quick back-and-forth and plays on words and references to pop kulcha things when a light convo is happening in not-their-language. And it's easier to be superior about this than just deal.

^ last paragraph all kinds of OTM nailed-it truth

you can generalise that further to just chats that one cannot participate in in whatever language. e.g. when folks talk about the childhood cartoons that they used to watch and if you spent your childhood in a different country with different cartoons.

you can appreciate how it must be a fun conversation to be in but you can also think whatevs this is so boring to me.

or back in computer science in uni when everyone else were talking about linux and while i can appreciate that open source or whatever is very exciting but like whatevs.

Don't mind people talking about stuff I'm not interested in if
1) There is somebody else I can talk to about stuff we are presumably both interested in
or
2) They don't mind if I can't contribute much and may not be able to follow or pay attention
or
3) They don't mind if I leave

What I DO mind is the Darwinian struggle to be the most positive that same PWCSU engage in
"This is the best steak ever!"
"This is the best salad ever!"
"I think this is the best lunch I ever ate!" etc.
Repeat at least three times daily indefinitely.

Coupla geezers I go to the pub with talk a lot about food (believe it or nay) - cooking it, eating it, buying it (LOL) - normally I just zone right out of those convos, they are fine with that

xp Yes to all three points in the first half!! Also I have learned a completely ridiculous amount of random stuff from conversations I wasn't originally interested in (and/or couldn't contribute to). Like the fact that Psysho was the first (American?) movie to show a toilet in it.

Psycho. Obv.

psysho bob

were you in stoke newington Tom?

... what, last night? Yes.

Like the fact that Psysho was the first (American?) movie to show a toilet in it.

Thread reqd?

Yes, Laurel, I completely agree about the learning of random stuff. That is why it is nice when there is some actual content to listen in on.

that thing common w/people who communicate best in writing, where you spend so much time overthinking the exact words to use when you want to say something that the moment usually passes

yeah this happens a lot to me and i was never sure if it was a common thing or not.

(xpost to self)
Otherwise it's like:
"This is the best glass of orange juice ever!"
(Is it really? Is it really the best glass of Tropicana ever? What makes it better than the glass you had yesterday? Are the glasses of Tropicana asymptotically approaching infinite perfection on a daily basis? OK, I'll stop)

it's the most annoying thing ever

oh it's the worst

best wurst ever

^ sort of conversation I hear between my two foodie friends

Thanks, Dadaismus, next time I am subject to such a conversation I'll imagine sitting in The Griffin having a pint.

And yes, what estela said, some people like to talk lots and are actually entertaining

There are certain people that I click with quickly and can bounce conversation off easily, but with most people I've just met I'm quite quiet just because I can't think of anything to say. When I started my previous job there was a communal kitchen area where people had lunch and obviously I didn't really know any of them, but apparently my style of not butting in to the general conversation when it had nothing to do with me and just eating my fucking lunch, maybe laughing at jokes or offering the odd conversational gem, was not appreciated by some. I was disappointed to find out that one of the people I'd considered the most lovely and non-judgmental had actually said I was an 'uptight bitch' for just 'sitting there listening'. I figure you just can't win so screw em.

i tend not to say much unless i am super comfortable. my roommate likes to talk--give updates--on everything she's thinking, feeling, etc. etc. it kind of becomes tiresome. my other sister and I call her "the weatherman"

I don't consider myself a quiet person, I'll talk a fair amount around friends and family. However, if I'm in a situation where I'm surrounded by strangers, I tend to hold back and get an idea of who people are before I jump in and converse. I've been this way since my family moved every few years when I was a kid and I would have to start at a new school each time. It was better to get an idea of what the environment was like and who people were before trying to make connections.

I'm not shy and I don't have a problem with talking to other people but if I'm in a group where there are talkative people who want to control the conversation, I'll let them do all the talking. I'm not really great at initiating topics of conversation so I'm happy to let someone else steer the discussion. Basically, I like talkative people who work to include other people in the conversation and are willing to listen when others are speaking, because they do the heavy lifting of the conversation and let me just jump in when I have something relevant to say. I don't like talkative people who just ramble about themselves over everyone else (I guess no one does).

I've been this way since my family moved every few years when I was a kid and I would have to start at a new school each time

opposite for me. turned from the quiet kid to the kid with the jokes as a result of having to make new friends every year or two.

i suspect people who throw "the creep card" around to describe quiet folks are the same lame-os who gossip/talk about shit they don't understand all the time anyway.

had to dump a cute girl once for calling my younger brother 'creepy' without ever having spoken a word to him (she'd been in his year at school for 18 months at thi stage). that's life.

I like talkative people who work to include other people in the conversation and are willing to listen when others are speaking, because they do the heavy lifting of the conversation and let me just jump in when I have something relevant to say.

This is kinda...lazy? Also as a talker I feel like, how thin is the line between doing enough "heavy lifting" for you and not doing too much? That's the area I worry about occupying, in a general way. But if the person who isn't doing the work gets to decide whether or not I'm doing the work CORRECTLY, that's a big drag.

I'm assuming that what Nick is talking about is a larger group of people who maybe don't really know each other too well and the person who does know everybody makes the effort to include everybody, but does so with a little finesse so you're not forced to contribute when you have nothing to say, but you are acknowledged when you do.

Does anyone realize that that is a lot of work, basically? That's like refereeing the whole shebang.

I mean I'd have to be sober to do that, and seriously forget that.

B-b-but some people feed on that and draw energy from it, like a hurricane feeds on warm water.

I mean I think I do a decent job at that kind of thing but there's always a point where I get tired/drunk/really excited about something and let the referring fall by the wayside. C'mon, if you can't hold up your own end by midnight or so AND you're not happy with the results (ie you don't like your role in the group but you haven't done anything to change it), no amount of booze is going to help you and it's time to go home.

Of course all the people that I know and love in real life are exempt from this judgment because um I like them. The judginess is more of a hypothetical thing, really.

I think a little goes a long way with the referring, so it's fine if you let it fall by the wayside after a little bit.