opinions, when expressed, make you want to leave the conversation

- 9/11 was an inside job
- The "morning after pill" is the same thing as "an abortion pill"
- vaccines cause autism
- voting for a democrat or republican is going to cause the same result because there's no real difference

-those poor people in AZ, having to deal with all those Mexicans and their drugs

generally some challop like: "i don't believe in watching television," or "sports are boring / stupid," or any variation where the person is putting down something enjoyed by many people in order to bolster their own cultural claim. (also file under: "i hate hip-hop," "i like everything but country music," etc.) even when i may agree that the particular thing isn't up my alley, the opinion expressed is always annoying and it makes me want to leave the conversation asap.

- any variant on there being too much immigration in the uk

- why should i have to pay to see my friend's band play?

mordy OTM

argh, the no TV people! Yes yes, we're all very impressed with your ability to cut yourself off from society and popular culture, now go watch your DVDS of 30 Rock and the Wire.

Completely otm. xp

- "But it's time to take our country back!" (always spoken by middle-class white folks)

-"we had so many keystones, it was insane"

do you feel like they're criticizing you, personally (presumably without knowing it)?

re: the no tv people

there seem to be a lot of these threads abt the retard groupmind at the moment

i think it's pretty obvious that these opinions are challenging and likely detrimental to their proponents' standing in polite company, but ppl express them anyway

maybe more interesting wd be why you converse with such ppl, or are unable to convince them 'not to go there'

pretty sure the "no TV" ppl being complained about know that they're criticizing everyone around them

i dunno - i just assume it's their personal decision - like vegans - and they're well aware that they're in the minority, and only the most obnoxious ones are gonna judge you negatively for not living your life exactly the way they do.

sooo many of these, but off the top:

- positive evaluations of the grateful dead
- aspersions on bisexuality / bisexuals
- "this country was founded on christian principles"
- anyone identifying modern wicca / paganism as an "ancient tradition"
- criticism of israel is anti-semitism

maybe more interesting wd be why you converse with such ppl, or are unable to convince them 'not to go there'

imo, the ability to be polite about politics or controversy is
1. In a debate or discussion, make a genuine attempt to see the other person's point of view, and understand why they feel the way they do, and attempt to engage with them on that level.
2. Failing that, if the position is poorly- or emotionally-justified or just plain stupid, then either change the topic or walk away

this thread is about the walking away, because you'd want to yell. or shit where it's an aesthetic/emotional thing to begin with, and you don't relate and therefore don't want to engage.

i'm a no TV person, but not cuz i think TV sucks or that other people are stupid or whatever. i will watch the shit out of some TV. but i am super cheap, and paying $15 for internet and $0 for cable sounds good to me. if there was still free TV floating around inside the air molecules, i'd be watching three men and a baby reruns.

if there was still free TV floating around inside the air molecules, i'd be watching three men and a baby reruns.

there is! and the hd over-the-air channels usually have better broadcast quality than those carried by satellite or cable providers.

conversation killers:

evaluations of this or that race, in general
wheat allergies
the time for revolution is now
bitch/bastard ex
"behold a pale horse"

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-tel,429/

i don't watch tv, but it's not a judgment on anyone around me! it's mostly because i never know what the time is/the only things i really want to watch are series, but i find it difficult keeping up and if i miss an episode that's basically it, i can't get back into it

yeah, this is the weirdest thing about the no-tv thing, but whenever someone tells me they don't want to pay for tv and i tell them that i don't (watch everything on free network stations where the majority of shows still are or on hulu), they always seem kinda surprised that tv is still free.

bitch/bastard ex

sorry about that, dude

there is! and the hd over-the-air channels usually have better broadcast quality than those carried by satellite or cable providers.

haven't investigated this. i only know my old TV now picks up only static, and that I need to get myself a digital converter box if I want to "keep up with the times."

- anyone identifying modern wicca / paganism as an "ancient tradition"

yeah i can buy this

ppl will honestly think that, and be unaware of their challop, but they are surely idiots

sorry about that, dude

no way. you always been cool about it. everything in moderation.

i am lately incommunicado only because i am terribly depressed.

(belongs in some other thread, i'm sure)

xx-post

Yeah, there was a program for like... two years.. to get a coupon for converter boxes in the US. You connect it up, maybe attach an antenna, and blammo... back in business, possibly with more channels than you previously had

- that thing white people do when they disparage "white people"

You know what, I wish I could leave the conversation whenever it turned to CELL PHONES
cell phone plans
features of cell phone
what you are doing on foursquare
how your parents are still paying your cell phone bill even though you're 29 (wtf)
But then I would never get to have a conversation with anyone...sometimes listening to shit you don't give a fuck about is part of being a friend.

bitch/bastard ex

that begs the question 'why did you think so differently before', yet they if they don't acknowledge that (and it's impolite to ask), there is an awkward void in which yr asked to join in complaining abt some terrible person who is little more than fiction to you

sometimes listening to shit you don't give a fuck about is part of being a friend.

man this lesson has been so hard for me to learn, i am pro at ~tuning out~ and wandering away from conversations that bore / annoy

aspersions on bisexuality / bisexuals

Thank you for this elmo...I was stuck on the bus the other night with a very loud and very unpleasant woman who was telling her chucklehead friend how:

1. Every girl is "10 drinks away from bisexual"
2. Bisexuals "aren't real," esp. male ones
3. Lindsay Lohan could never be a "real bi"

Like #2 seemed to cancel out whatever points she was trying to make with 1 and 3, but she kept kind of juggling all of them equally. I was so happy to be off that bus after a half hour of listening to this.

I JUST ARGUED ABOUT BISEXUALS LAST WEEKEND.

ARRGH.

Arguing About Bisexuals sounds like an album title

"Bi-sexuals aren't real, they're just people who are immature and don't know what they want. I know this is true because I asked a lot of gay men and they said so."

tbf all the self-professed bi people I've known have been pretty annoying

altho that's a bit different from saying they "don't exist"

do people still say that? xp

- criticism of israel is anti-semitism

- "I'm just talking about Zionists right?"

don't know or 'get' these anti-TV people you all seem to know

there was that study from a few years back re: bisexuals
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html
xpost

yeah I don't know anyone like that.

I am, however, the resident anti-sports guy lol. basically if you express an opinion about pro-sports my mind leaves my body and goes off to do something more interesting

evaluations of this or that race, in general

reminds me of a time i was with my boyfriend's misanthropic aunt, harmlessly chatting about "bad drivers" which i thought was a safe topic until she interjected, "you know who the worst drivers are? asians, because they have no peripheral vision."

i had no response ready; i wanted to die.

*gasps*

omg

I'm technically a no-TV person too and I'm deeply apologetic about it because I fucking love telly. I guess I d/l or box set everything so I'm still watching it.

lol xp

ur grandma's said some shit, i feel

sorry ur bf's aunt haha

aren't there other stories?

yeah, seriously, if you watch as much as television as me (ok, practically impossible, but if you watch as much television as someone normal who owns a tv set) but you watch it on your computer instead of on a tv set: you watch tv, go kill urself if you claim u don't.

is that a joke or an email-circular level pseudoscientific hearsay? xps

an

I hope neither I nor the bf make a habit of being showily no-TV people, but on one occasion we were being grilled about how come we hadn't watched any of some dull relative's top 50 favourite TV shows and he was getting a bit heavy with the "we don't even have a TV!" business, and I was secretly laughing because every evening he watches his downloaded TV shows

so now when I hear this from other people I just imagine them going home to a hard disk of 15th-rate SF channel series, checking what has new episodes on torrent sites, etc

there is a slight difference - conceivably - depending on viewing conditions - i mean there's the content and the context.

xxp I'm betting it's on the same level as "Jews knew not to go to work in the WTV on 9/11."

yea when ppl start talking like that about tv i'm like WE HAVE A TV, IT'S BIG, I LIKE TOP MODEL

^^ kinda the equivalent of telling a militant vegan "i had the best bacon cheeseburger last night!"

there is a slight difference - conceivably - depending on viewing conditions - i mean there's the content and the context.

yeah, hulu commercials are of much higher intellectual quality than tv commercials. or do u mean people should feel proud for avoiding watching commercials by illegally downloading shit? how about people who dvr shows on their television and fast-forward thru the commercials? are they substantially different from people who just download torrents? etc etc

hahahaha surm <3

Kate - thanks for linking that article. It's actually really interesting.
I do think bisexuality exists. I mean, c'mon, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not believe so. I will say, however, that most of the men I've known who identified as bi later came out as gay. That doesn't mean they weren't bi at an an earlier time in their lives or that bisexuality isn't a valid sexual identity for men but it is interesting to me. Obv this isn't a thread for debating that but the above comments and that article made me think of it.

iirc we did this TV thing about a year ago and Sarahel was one of the no TV ppl

i'm a no TV person, but not cuz i think TV sucks or that other people are stupid or whatever. i will watch the shit out of some TV. but i am super cheap, and paying $15 for internet and $0 for cable sounds good to me. if there was still free TV floating around inside the air molecules, i'd be watching three men and a baby reruns.

There is a difference between the people who don't watch tv for whatever reason and the people who feel the need to announce that they don't watch tv at every opportunity.

very true

lol yea surm she is something else -- my exposure to her has been limited tho, as spending the day with her should be preceded by a fucking xanax

xps I guess if you're having to make an effort to seek out and d/l or stream or rent a TV show it's slightly different from just sitting there all evening watching whatever's on and endlessly flicking through the channels.

xp - yeah, i mean with dvr's and other "on demand" type technology - it changes the traditional television context from that criticized a la Raymond Williams' and "flow". I'm old enough to still associate "watching television" with that old model, and I dunno, maybe the "I don't watch TV (but do get improving programs on DVD)" have those same associations?

xp ENBB - i don't proudly announce my non-tv watching-ness, mostly i end up feeling slightly dumb because i have no idea what people are talking about.

Yeah, no I was just saying I remembered that you were on the non TV watching side of of things.

i watch a few shows on the set and stream / download others, whatever, but when anyone starts talking about *commercials* on the teevee i instinctively reach for the MUTE button i mean ugh nooooo

xp - yeah, i mean with dvr's and other "on demand" type technology - it changes the traditional television context from that criticized a la Raymond Williams' and "flow". I'm old enough to still associate "watching television" with that old model, and I dunno, maybe the "I don't watch TV (but do get improving programs on DVD)" have those same associations?

― sarahel, Friday, September 24, 2010 2:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whooooooooooooo cares it's still TV

if you watch a movie on your computer are you not watching a movie?

Kate - thanks for linking that article. It's actually really interesting.
I do think bisexuality exists. I mean, c'mon, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not believe so. I will say, however, that most of the men I've known who identified as bi later came out as gay. That doesn't mean they weren't bi at an an earlier time in their lives or that bisexuality isn't a valid sexual identity for men but it is interesting to me. Obv this isn't a thread for debating that but the above comments and that article made me think of it.

The other thing re: this whole bisexuality thing is that perhaps the men in the studies showed arousal to women at different times. Maybe bi arousal swings from one side to the other or something.

omg i'm sorry that's me

i LOVE commercials

xp

"The world is sooooooooo politically correct these days....."
"He's not MY President!"
"Barack isn't a US citizen..."
"Liberals are ruining this country..."
"Support Burn a Koran Day!" (I defriend people for this one)
"The reason schools fail is because they never approved the voucher system...people shouldn't have to pay for each other's education."
"They took the Bible out of the schools, now the jails are full..."
"Everybody Loves Raymond was a funny television show..."

xp - oh yeah, no i didn't interpret your post as me being hoity-toity about it. I just wanted to clarify for those who weren't on that thread last year.

i wonder if there's a certain kind of person who really gets no enjoyment from popular entertainment that creates the experience of a broader (invisible) community. like listening to radio DJs take callers, or watching sports games with the same announcers day-to-day, or watching sitcoms with laugh tracks. that stuff all tickles the broad-community parts of my brain and even when it feels superficial and silly i can still enjoy it. maybe the reason people deriding those things bugs me is because it sounds like they're trying to remove themselves from the 'human project,' like, 'oh, i don't partake in silly things like multi-camera sitcoms and following sports teams. i'm too busy for that,' which is like, ok, maybe legitimate, but saying it suddenly says something very specific about who you are and what kinds of things are important to you. who wants to divorce themselves from a broader community no matter how superficial? (probably lots of people on ILX i bet -- tho they do keep posting in THIS community, so many it depends on the kind we're talking about -- idk.)

xp to surm: I love commercials too!

:) best barbeque conversation

"If you take away the guns from the citizenry, only the criminals will have guns..."

last weekend the hit topic of the night was Latisse

I feel like, when I lived in Chicago, I saw more people sorta proudly announce that they were above/beyond TV. And now that I'm in NYC, I never hear anyone mention it except to explain why they don't know the show you're asking about. And I can't tell how much that's because (a) way more people here don't have TVs and are never home anyway, so it's not even an interesting thing to mention, or (b) I'm just older and everyone I see is past feeling cool about self-defining as TV-free.

My life was much better when I didn't have a TV, but now that I do, and have DVR and cable and whatnot, I will happily spend like 6 hours alternating between re-runs of Law & Order and Soul Train.

Christ on a cracker, why don't these people just buy mascara? xp

xxxp: that's pretty true though.

ahahahahahaha nicole

- vaccines cause autism

1000x yes

also

- Vegetarianism is stupid. Meat is awesome. Why don't you eat meat? You are missing out. MEAT MEAT MEAT. Don't you miss it? Oh just have a bite etc.

I get it. You eat meat and you like it and that's awesome for you. Go forth and eat your meat. I don't sit around trying to convince you to stop eating it so please stop trying to get me to start.

i wonder if there's a certain kind of person who really gets no enjoyment from popular entertainment that creates the experience of a broader (invisible) community. like listening to radio DJs take callers, or watching sports games with the same announcers day-to-day, or watching sitcoms with laugh tracks.

I don't enjoy any of these things, mostly because they're just so goddamn boring and repetitive and predictable, they just make my eyes glaze over

also I am a jerk

I guess you don't enjoy your own posts either.

xp - yeah, i mean with dvr's and other "on demand" type technology - it changes the traditional television context from that criticized a la Raymond Williams' and "flow". I'm old enough to still associate "watching television" with that old model, and I dunno, maybe the "I don't watch TV (but do get improving programs on DVD)" have those same associations?

― sarahel, Friday, September 24, 2010 2:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whooooooooooooo cares it's still TV

if you watch a movie on your computer are you not watching a movie?

It depends on what one's criticism of it is. Like people who don't watch tv because of the content - e.g. it's stupid or whatever - no, whether you watch it on a computer or your iphone doesn't matter. But for some people it might be the context. Watching something on a computer often entails more interaction with the interface - maybe? I'm not up to date on my media theory/critical studies, so I don't know whether there's been research or writing on the subject.

6 hours alternating between re-runs of Law & Order and Soul Train.

sign me up

unrelated to thread topics, but what are some very broadly popular topics of conversation -- like stuff that if you're fluent in you can probably muster up a conversation with almost anyone? the four big ones in my eyes are television, sports, weather + ways to travel from place to place. i've noticed that people LOVE to talk about how they get places; either in their commute, or traveling plans, or how they take public transportation to get from Boston to Philly... "Oh, I take I-9 all the way down," "Yup. That's a good way to go."

like stuff that if you're fluent in you can probably muster up a conversation with almost anyone?

food!

6 hours alternating between re-runs of Law & Order and Soul Train.

sign me up

― tangelo amour (elmo argonaut), Friday, September 24, 2010 3:41 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^

also lol Nick

oh yeah, food is great conversation fodder.

btw, used to go L&O Original > SVU, but now I've swapped and will watch hours of trashy shitty exploitive horrible SVU + love it.

I guess you don't enjoy your own posts either.

au contraire, each one is more fulfilling, joyous, and ecstatic than the last

I know this is true because I asked a lot of gay men and they said so

ow yeah, citing the polite conversation of the one black/asian/gay person you know as authority for all sorts = not good

like listening to radio DJs take callers, or watching sports games with the same announcers day-to-day, or watching sitcoms with laugh tracks.

hate radio, hate radio djs
love watching sports, tend to hate commentators b/c they're usually pretty shit
sitcoms w/laugh tracks - if they're funny i guess?

idk it's nice feeling part of a "broader community" but whether i like the thing in question is the priority, really

It depends on what one's criticism of it is. Like people who don't watch tv because of the content - e.g. it's stupid or whatever - no, whether you watch it on a computer or your iphone doesn't matter. But for some people it might be the context. Watching something on a computer often entails more interaction with the interface - maybe? I'm not up to date on my media theory/critical studies, so I don't know whether there's been research or writing on the subject.

― sarahel, Friday, September 24, 2010 2:41 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it doesn't matter! it's still TV! it's still a TV show written for television that originally aired on television and people watched on their televisions! it's television! TV!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpost The anti-vegetarian thing pisses me off as I used to be one of those people and years later, don't get why.

I'll probably always be a meat eater, because I'm indoctrinated into it. I eat food that tastes like barbecued sandpaper in droves (or I did, until I changed my eating habits two months ago). But if I had the willpower, I'd probably go vegetarian (but probably not full-on vegan).

The best argument I here is "it's unhealthy to be a vegetarian, you don't get enough Iron." Yea, if you don't follow the correct diet, but half the time that phrase is coming from a meat eater who doesn't pay attention to things like calorie count, saturated/trans fats, or any type of nutritional information. they're just trying to be contrarian and legitimize their view.

That said, I do know some vegetarians who are kinda twitty about it, but that's true of any group, and not representative of the whole. I have a friend who insists to me that for me to lose weight, all I have to do is eat my vegetables. I'm quite aware of the whole controversy over whether exercise causes weight loss, but um I could eat nothing but vegetables and gain weight ya know.

I will say, however, that most of the men I've known who identified as bi later came out as gay

yeah it's a pretty common stepping stone to coming out "fully" i guess, so i take it with a small pinch of salt in certain cases, but really it's not that hard to accept people as what they say they are, and it's hardly my business anyway

idk it's nice feeling part of a "broader community" but whether i like the thing in question is the priority, really

I never agree with lex about anything but this is how I feel, for the most part.

basically a lot of these fall under "people being an ass about other people's life choices which are nothing to do with them"

I would never get why (mostly male) relatives would have such protracted conversations about "so which way did you come" "took the 417, down the hill and onto the 361" "ah, that's a good way... you could also have gone left after the bridge, caught up with the 419, but it gets busy in the evenings", and now I sometimes find myself asking it, and not even knowing why

i think this is the 2nd time in like three days shakey!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duwz5y4jONE

i wonder if there's a certain kind of person who really gets no enjoyment from popular entertainment that creates the experience of a broader (invisible) community.

that's a bit of a syllogism....i think you have to allow that there are ppl who honestly aren't interested in those things, for reasons more immediate than some supposed disquiet w/ consensus proletkult

although it would be pretty rare to dislike all popular entertainment

xp n/a - i used to be one of those "anti-television people" (this was when i was a teenager, so like almost 20 years ago) - primarily because it involved sitting passively in front of a large screen, and it was this constantly shifting series of messages that never stopped, and the sound just droned on and on at a relatively constant volume/tempo (well, the commercials tended to be a bit louder). It was the act of watching, not the content itself.

nakhchivan, that's a fair point, except i've met a number of people who take pride in not connecting to any kind of popular entertainment which leads me to believe there's something more at play than just not connecting to any of the manifestations of popular entertainment.

yeah i see what you mean about people who disdain all sorts of popular culture and entertainment seemingly because it's popular, but when i say hate listening to the radio because a) i can choose what songs i want to listen to myself, and far better than any radio dj can, and b) most radio djs are irritating and insufferable and NEVER SHUT UP, and then people respond with some waffle about feeling part of a broader community, it's just totally o_0 to me

San Te - For me the vegetarian thing is just so old. I haven't eaten meat in 16 years and rarely, if ever, talk to ppl irl about the fact that I'm vegetarian so I find it incredibly annoying when people start in on it. I've had those conversations so many times in the past that it's really the last thing I want to talk about these days.

The best argument I here is "it's unhealthy to be a vegetarian, you don't get enough Iron."

Bah, I've been a vegetarian going on 20 years with the VERY occasional seafood meal (like, not even once a month). I had my LOL-you-turned-40 physical earlier this year, with a full blood workup, and EVERYTHING with the exception of Vit D came back well within normal ranges, including iron, proteins and the lot.

i've noticed that people LOVE to talk about how they get places; either in their commute, or traveling plans, or how they take public transportation to get from Boston to Philly... "Oh, I take I-9 all the way down," "Yup. That's a good way to go."

― Mordy

hahaha do you live in LA?? my husband was telling me last time we were there that everyone's favourite conversation topic is how to get where they got.

people respond with that lex?? i think that's a pretty insightful way of looking at radio discourses, i'd be surprised if most fans were aware of it. like most people who watch multi-camera sitcoms aren't like, "i like the comfort of laughing with a laugh track. it makes me feel like other people are in the room," they say, "i found big bang theory funny," and the first reason might be like 80% of the second reason but it's not conscious.

"haha you do math...maybe you can balance my checkbook!"

"haha philosophy...what good is that in the real world?"

hahaha do you live in LA?? my husband was telling me last time we were there that everyone's favourite conversation topic is how to get where they got.

lol, NYC, and I'm not even a driver (tho I'm hoping to change that fact soon) but I've seen it enough esp when visiting Philadelphia

"men are like this, women are like that"

Bah, I've been a vegetarian going on 20 years with the VERY occasional seafood meal (like, not even once a month). I had my LOL-you-turned-40 physical earlier this year, with a full blood workup, and EVERYTHING with the exception of Vit D came back well within normal ranges, including iron, proteins and the lot.

I'd like to use this against my anti-vegetarian friends. In all references I will refer to you as Phillipe le Ilxeure

xp to erica: this is jordan's life every day at work. he NEVER EVER EVER talks about being vegan, to anyone. if we're at a restaurant, he won't even double check with the waiter that something is vegan - if it appears to be vegan on the menu, he'll just order it. but he is tortured mercilessly by his stupid coworkers who think it's hilarious to make the same joke over and over again about how 'oh i'd LOVE to start a vegan restaurant and put bacon fat in everything and everyone would think it was soooo goood and i'd get so rich. hahahah stupid vegans!!' and people constantly starting arguments about it with him and then having the nerve to complain that HE'S judgmental!!! omg it makes my blood boil.

has he tried carrying a gun

tricking people into eating something w/ meat in it when they're vegetarian is scumminess on a whole other level

I'm a big TV fan but this is what is the most popular US TV:

1 NBC SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL NBC 9.2 12,154
2 SUNDAY NIGHT NFL PRE-KICK NBC 7.1 9,360
3 FOOTBALL NT AMERICA PT 3 NBC 5.1 6,689
4 SURVIVOR: NICARAGUA – SPC(S) S CBS 4.0 5,210
5 AMERICA’S GOT TALENT-TUE NBC 3.9 5,161
6 AMERICA’S GOT TALENT-WED NBC 3.9 5,075
7 60 MINUTES R CBS 3.1 4,020
8 BIG BROTHER 12-WED CBS 2.9 3,769
9 WIPEOUT-TUES ABC 2.8 3,622
10 PARENTHOOD P NBC 2.7 3,553

that'd be a great action star -- "Magnum Vegan"

basically a lot of these fall under "people being an ass about other people's life choices which are nothing to do with them"

yep. I mean, I don't like pro-sports or have any inclination to watch them but if someone else wants to hey what do I care, makes no difference to me. otoh if you start acting like I SHOULD care for whatever reason, or assume that I do, yeah I'm liable to be irritated.

i think this is the 2nd time in like three days shakey!!

I know! cosmic

when i was a vegeterian i'd get that too - and generally just shrug it off, with "well, i guess i'm missing out then" - which is my general approach when people tell me i should smoke pot and how great it is, etc.

"haha you do math...maybe you can balance my checkbook!"

iirc the British response to "I'm a mathematician" is always "oh I was always terrible at maths at school", if that suits you any better?

oh man, people who are judgmental about weed smoking def fits thread description. dude told me the other day that smoking is wrong and i said why and he just said, "the brain." and then there was a long pause and finally i said, "yes, brain is a word. is there more to it than that? maybe you can expand?" and he seemed really bewildered. it was bizarre.

nakhchivan, that's a fair point, except i've met a number of people who take pride in not connecting to any kind of popular entertainment which leads me to believe there's something more at play than just not connecting to any of the manifestations of popular entertainment.

― Mordy, Friday, 24 September 2010 20:48 (2 minutes ago)

they're probably fronting in quite a few instances, or a little precious at least

if they find the attempts to forge some universality of experience around the most ubiquitous cultural products a bit false, they react by disclaiming any affective response to same

but i think when ppl grow up they are confident enough to realize that finding pleasure in mnstrm culture isn't inherently suspect

Ugh Justine, it's so annoying!! Tell him I feel his pain.

I almost find it hard to believe that people still do this but they do and quite often at that.

One of my favorite examples of this, as detailed on the _Reality Bites_ thread:

a couple of years ago a friend of mine invited me to a party he was going to. he picked me up and we drove to a house in Silver Lake. We walked around back and into the back yard. There was a porch that required us to climb up some steps, to where we saw a handful of smokers outside chattering away. We reached the steps and we heard a guy say, "Coffee and smokes, man, that's all I need." A girl replied, "Reality Bites, right?" He replied, "Yes!" She said, "AWEsome..." Another guy chimed in, "Fuckin' great movie, dude." And all three said, "Yeah, seriously."

My friend and I looked at one another, shrugged, and turned around and left.

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, January 22, 2005 11:24 PM (5 years ago)

i am suspicious that what is claimed to be mainstream culture is actually enjoyed by the mainstream.
e.g. that list of the highest paid comedians thread full of comedians I think most people have never heard of.

yes, brain is a word. is there more to it than that? maybe you can expand?"

lol Mordy

most of my friends smoke weed, i don't. Some have issues that could be related to smoking too much pot, but i feel like everyone has things they do that are/or could be kinda unhealthy, so it's kinda a dick move to be like - "You're paranoid? You feel like crap because you don't get much done and don't leave the house as often as you should? Lol - hey have you considered smoking less pot?"

The traveling thing isn't really geographical, is it? It's a staple of adult(-male) conversation lots of places. I can mostly only speak for the midwestern families-visiting-each-other version, but I think in that realm it's usually about how The Father has done The Job of Transporting His Family, and is basically doing shop-talk about that with the more local Father. Meanwhile the local Mother has to ritually exhibit her home to the visiting Mother, and do shop-talk about their Job of Homemaking -- it's all very gendered and based on tradition/protocol. It always seemed really rote to me, but now that I'm older I can see how, if the texture of your life is to do stuff like "drive three hours to visit people" or "make our house nice," it's a natural thing to talk about.

"I was terrible at math in school" isn't great but at least it isn't insulting. I don't get why, if you're going to ask me what I do with my life, you're then going to make fun of it. At least do it behind my back!

maybe they're not sure what you actually do?

I get that, but after finding out, maybe give your conversant a little respect, or at least an original lol? cos I can ride with good jokes about what I do, but you have no idea how many times I've gotten the checkbook line.

"haha you do math...maybe you can balance my checkbook!" = lamentable but harmless nervous humour

"haha philosophy...what good is that in the real world?" = retard

Nabisco so otm it's hilarious.

oh man, the "original lol" thing -- the "are you related to (50s actress on US sitcom)?" got old really fast.

Nabisco so otm it's hilarious.

haha yes, both about the weird gender roles AND how it seems much less weird if you're the one driving/cleaning

"i was terrible at maths" is kind of an awkward compliment borne out of, idk, fear or trepidation or something? i was ok enough at maths but it never stopped feeling like a frustrating, slightly scary otherworld that i couldn't get inside. so i have total admiration for people who could, enough to make a career out of it, but i still get that frisson of schoolkid fear when i think about it.

Ditto. If a logic problem revolves around words, colors of clothing, cities of residence, can be communicated without numbers, I plow right into it. If the same set-up requires numerals, my brain checks out.

The traveling thing isn't really geographical, is it? It's a staple of adult(-male) conversation lots of places. I can mostly only speak for the midwestern families-visiting-each-other version, but I think in that realm it's usually about how The Father has done The Job of Transporting His Family, and is basically doing shop-talk about that with the more local Father. Meanwhile the local Mother has to ritually exhibit her home to the visiting Mother, and do shop-talk about their Job of Homemaking -- it's all very gendered and based on tradition/protocol. It always seemed really rote to me, but now that I'm older I can see how, if the texture of your life is to do stuff like "drive three hours to visit people" or "make our house nice," it's a natural thing to talk about.

OTM, but without the rote judgement because the older I get the more I notice how important this stuff is for people relating to each other. But also, I was trying to think of the earliest anecdotes about what route you took to get places and it's like Odyssey + the Bible. "So uh, we've been walking for about 40 years, I guess we shouldn't have turned at Sinai," "Oh yeah, that was a huge mistake. You just go straight from there." Clearly talking about directions is baked into the human brain. (Baked. lol.)

I share a last name with a popular disney cartoon so I get a lot of comments like that and people sing me the song all the time which is kind of lame but I do use that angle when explaining to people how to pronounce it.

I do have very poor math skills and whenever someone I meet has a math-y job my first reaction is always "wwooooow, that's so cool. I suck balls at math." I hope they aren't annoyed.

#1 word that makes me leave the conversation regardless of context: "sheeple"

You know it would be cool if it was like, "We took the causeway and HEY did you notice there must be an eagle's nest now, because I'm pretty sure we saw something bigger than a hawk riding the thermals out there" or something observant & potentially interesting about the travel. I guess if it were just which roads you took all the time, it would run out of value fast.

I share a last name with a popular disney cartoon so I get a lot of comments like that and people sing me the song all the time which is kind of lame but I do use that angle when explaining to people how to pronounce it.

people can't pronounce "Mouse"?

any opinion expressed in opposition to welfare/food stamps/health care by anybody who received federal financial aid for college, and/or those people still receiving money/employment/fiscal support by their parents

- The idea that unpopular (or at least not mainstream) entertainment is somehow inferior, because if it was good, it'd be more popular

- The idea that popular (or mainstream) entertainment is somehow inferior, because it is lowest common denominator

whoops, Mordy's posts about sitcoms and laugh tracks made me screw up - it was a 50s tv show that wasn't a sit-com

"gluten intolerance"

I'm pretty sure, no matter what you do for a living, strangers' responses are going to fall into one annoying category or another:

- total boredom, if you do a normal job everyone understands
- constant well-meaning "I would be terrible at that" comments/jokes, if you do a job that's mathematical/scientific
- stereotyped jokes/questions (that start with "so are you like XYZ every day?"), if your job is the kind people only know about from TV or movies
- "look at you, you're quite the big shot," if your job sounds fancy
- "oh wow so can I ask you about this stupid thing," if your job sounds useful to their interests
- near-hostile challenging questions, if someone doesn't like your profession or employer
- etc. etc.

like we could have a whole thread trying to find jobs that don't get some category of tired response.

the one mathematician i know is a vegan and a massive stoner, just imagine how often he has to confront these opinions on all sides

fwiw i doubt dude could even balance a checkbook, too busy checking out fractals and shit like set theory & topology

In response to me being a socialist:

"Socialism? you COMMIE!!!! how many people had to die in Russia before you learn it doesn't work" and other forms of ignorance....

you forget the job that you have to explain what it is you do

"X is a more natural way to live –– it is how our ancestors did it" (vibram 5 fingers, caveman diet, raw food, homeopathy)

Nabisco OTM, only substitute "any random facet of your life" for "what you do for a living"

I saw on a library slip someone had named their child Charles [ethnic surname] Xavier. Either that or Charles chose that name himself, but either way, he's getting a lifetime of one-liners.

#1 word that makes me leave the conversation regardless of context: "sheeple"

― Fsck Washing Ong's Hat (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 24 September 2010 21:13 (47 seconds ago)

Shqiple

http://www.maasbesa.org/image/bg/albanian_children_boston.jpg

Michael Pollen has some shtick in one of his books about how you should only eat food that your great-grandparents would recognize as food and that means for me basically

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3TVsPTBkETg/SwMiOnjpz9I/AAAAAAAAAKg/YC5SGPQi-BI/s1600/cholent1.jpg

I do have very poor math skills and whenever someone I meet has a math-y job my first reaction is always "wwooooow, that's so cool. I suck balls at math." I hope they aren't annoyed.

I doubt it, I just remember my mother being amused at how almost inevitable that response was, and saying it was odd because if you work in a bakery the first response is probably not "oh, I am terrible at making bread!" or whatever

(actually maybe mine would be, but)

Clearly talking about directions is baked into the human brain.

I'm sure if you took a brain scan of the average medium-to-long term Southern California resident, the highest activity would be detected during conversations about commuting/direction-finding. I expect you would get similar results from pilots talking about the weather (pilots can pedantically talk about weather 1000x stronger than farmers or ship captains)

when i get that "i suck at math" thing - and my job isn't pure math by any means - i just want to ask why that person sucks at it or why they think they do.

Yeah, if you say math is cool, I'll probably put up with any jokes that follow; it's just when the opinion starts with a laugh, nervous or otherwise, that I get annoyed. But it's true that basically every job elicits some standard response & if you've had to answer the question of what it is you do often enough, you probably feel like I do.

"gluten intolerance"

This one is annoying because a friend of mine is full-out celiac so it's a drag to be lumped in with bandwagon jumpers.

so is peacocks's last name chippendale?

people can't pronounce "Mouse"?

haha, no its bigger than that.

xp re: math

I mean, I do science for a living so I'm not that bad at it but I think it is one of those things of which full understanding is unattainable to a buunch of people even though it is something, like baking, that people do every day.

the "oh you do x so you must.." statement is pretty great

I am a software developer, that means I don't know how to solve your formatting in MS Word, thanks.

*seems unattainable

if you've had to answer the question of what it is you do often enough, you probably feel like I do.

it's true - i try and come up with different responses as often as i can, but sometimes i just come straight out and say, "You know how many people have made that same joke?"

Nabisco & Hi Dere on the mark.

I quit posting on metafilter about a year ago b/c of some stupid, stupid thread where posters got unbelievably snippy and mean-spirited about people asking naive (non-professional) questions about their work. some memorable examples:

– an archivist wanting to "fucking kill" anybody who assumed they worked with books
– a statistician who refused to talk to anybody who asked them about numbers "because real math isn't usually about /numbers"
- a programmer who hated anybody who asked them anything about their work, because "you couldn't understand it."

I feel like, when I lived in Chicago, I saw more people sorta proudly announce that they were above/beyond TV. And now that I'm in NYC, I never hear anyone mention it except to explain why they don't know the show you're asking about. And I can't tell how much that's because (a) way more people here don't have TVs and are never home anyway, so it's not even an interesting thing to mention, or (b) I'm just older and everyone I see is past feeling cool about self-defining as TV-free.

Or maybe because you last lived in Chicago in 2004? I mean, I didn't watch TV at all back then, because I was pretty busy with extracurricular stuff. And I probably did actually say "I don't watch TV" in conversation a few times, but hopefully more defensively (because I couldn't keep up with the conversation) than snobbishly. But that's definitely changed in the last few years, and not just because I'm not as busy as I used to be, but also because the technology has changed so that I can watch stuff online whenever I want.

'i suck at math' is one of the few socially acceptable self-effacements around. 'i suck at spelling' maybe?, but i guess only a spelling bee champ might get that a lot.

a conversation that i loathe ideologically but love actually (+ loathe myself for so willingly participating in) is discussing cartoons and kids shows from a shared generational television watching experience. especially when the conversation devolves into singing the theme song from Tale Spin. It's crack for my brain and I hate myself for being suckered into that conversation time and time again (generally at dinner parties with similarly aged people).

I mean, I do science for a living so I'm not that bad at it but I think it is one of those things of which full understanding is unattainable to a buunch of people even though it is something, like baking, that people do every day.

... pretty sure a professional baker would say the same thing, TBQH

yeah that's totally true, J, streaming video really came online after I left!

oh we ooh, tail spin...

oh we ooh, tail spin...

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/images/t-v/tsv1-23.jpg

Peacock Cloudkicker?

Other conversation-killers... militant tech types who get in my face when I mention that I make my living as an iPhone/Objective C programmer. (Apple sucks, it's a closed system, blah blah blah). Ahem... It's my job. STFU.

Of course, they're usually bitching about their phones all the time too.

'i suck at math' is one of the few socially acceptable self-effacements around. 'i suck at spelling' maybe?, but i guess only a spelling bee champ might get that a lot.

― Philip Nunez, Friday, 24 September 2010 21:25 (35 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah, but if someone genuinely is terrible at maths and doesn't have a learning disorder, they are deprecating themselves more than they would like to

usually it's ppl who just didn't like maths and were glad to give it up

I run screaming from 'I'm not into organised religion, but I'm a very spiritual person' or variants thereof....

a programmer who hated anybody who asked them anything about their work, because "you couldn't understand it."

I am not a very good programmer but I quite often feel a bit guilty that I earn more than the non-programmers in my workplace because I am pretty sure that any of them could understand programming (at least, to the level at which I do it - maybe not writing assembler for embedded realtime life-or-death whatever) if it had only occurred to them that they might be able to

The only profession related line that bugs me is "Are you going to shhh me?" because it's Leno-level jokey lame.

oh man, the "original lol" thing -- the "are you related to (50s actress on US sitcom)?" got old really fast.

For me it's "are you related to (characters on 70s US sitcom)?"

do you tell them that that joke jumped the shark decades ago?

I'm still trying to work out where the line is on a job people find you responsible for. Like if you're a receptionist at State Farm, nobody's gonna get on your case about how their coverage sucks, right? But at some point up the line people start acting like you're responsible for whatever you work on, and it seems like people start WAY before the point where you actually have any say whatsoever in the product.

there's nothing better than having a bunch of lawyers in your social circle when your company does litigation support software

I have to confess that I do occasionally make fun of a vegetarian co-worker because he was so ridiculous about his eating habits - declaring himself vegan but still following his same eating routine. At least a dozen times he'd go to a fast food place and then complain that they put cheese on his burrito. Er, if you're trying to be vegan WHY are you going to Taco Bell?

He's eased up considerably since, but whenever he'd do something like that I'd get the smelliest roasted pork plate from a nearby Cuban restaurant and eat it at my desk.

xxxp Ha, I should.

This is the worst in retail: you will frequently find yourself assailed by customers for decisions made in corporate offices far, far above your head for which you are yourself the primary victim.

(xp to nabs)

oh man, the "original lol" thing -- the "are you related to (50s actress on US sitcom)?" got old really fast.

UGH. I *still* get Chuck Barris jokes even now!

i.e. when I was a manager at Borders I would frequently get yelled at by customers who were irate that the cashier had asked them if they wanted to donate a book to a local school. I'd explain that I – personally – found the practice annoying as well, but that it was corporate policy and my own job was contingent upon following this directive.

For me it's "are you related to (characters on 70s US sitcom)?"

lol a week ago I found out one of my co-workers' maiden name was Scolari and I said, "really? are you related to Peter Scolari?"

...

AND THEY WERE

ARE

whatever

Like if you're a receptionist at State Farm, nobody's gonna get on your case about how their coverage sucks, right? But at some point up the line people start acting like you're responsible for whatever you work on, and it seems like people start WAY before the point where you actually have any say whatsoever in the product.

Sort of related, but I keep thinking that I need to have a good sit-down chat with someone in our marketing/sales department, because people *always* want to talk to me about these aspects of my company, and I usually just kind of B.S. it most of the time since I work in editorial. I don't really mind the questions, I just feel dumb and unprepared!

I run screaming from 'I'm not into organised religion, but I'm a very spiritual person' or variants thereof....

― sonofstan, Friday, September 24, 2010 9:29 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

thissssssssssssssssssssss

those ppl are invariably terrible

responses about my job are pretty unpredictable - range from wide-eyed enthusiasm to complete incomprehension to open disdain

uneducated conversations about the spiritual value of yoga

but often unintentionally hilarious!

xp to chris - i hate militant veges/vegans as much as the next person, it's just those ppl who make it their mission in life to denigrate other ppl's personal choices, when the person has refrained from starting a conversation about it, who annoy me. esp when in reality ~they~ end up coming off as militant meateaters.

"i love you"

xposts - I guess technically the job thing isn't about responsibility, just that at some point people expect you to almost feel bad that the thing you work on isn't 100% awesome and the best thing on earth. As if we don't all basically work for some random thing we would barely care about if they didn't pay us. It's like they'll want you to argue with them and defend your employer. Like you could be the janitor at Taco Bell and they'd be like "the sauce on that Baja Chalupa was a big mistake!"

That ties into last week's Mad Men.

at some point people expect you to almost feel bad that the thing you work on isn't 100% awesome and the best thing on earth

then it can't be difficult to pull the same trick on them...

we view opinions that are opposed to ours to be opportunities, not signals to leave the conversation. in fact we will not leave a conversation until our views are made clear.

-fucking foreigners in fucking call centers, can't understand 'em, etc

when i tell ppl where i work and they recognize the company name they just assume i must be a deadhead, hence my opening post itt: "positive evaluations of the grateful dead"

stuff like: "we view opinions that are opposed to ours to be opportunities, not signals to leave the conversation. in fact we will not leave a conversation until our views are made clear."

- ppl who express stupid opinions on things they know shitfuck-all about AND don't even have any bearing on their own existence (eg. my fuckhead uncle joining the group 'stop muslims building a mosque at ground zero' on FB - dickhead lives in NZ, has never been to the US or even outside of NZ, knows next to nothing about muslims or 9/11 or any current political topic, yet has such a 'strong' opinion on the subject that he needs to express it on FB)

I quit posting on metafilter about a year ago b/c of some stupid, stupid thread where posters got unbelievably snippy and mean-spirited about people asking naive (non-professional) questions about their work.

people on mefi being mean and snippy? shocking!

s if we don't all basically work for some random thing we would barely care about if they didn't pay us.

this isn't how I feel about my job.

kinda sad if that's how everyone else feels about their jobs

People who say, "I love reading! It's so rewarding! I wish I had more time for it."

"I don't read fiction"

parents who talk shit about their own kids

people who talk shit about their significant other!

"I don't read fiction"

this is more a statement of fact than an opinion...?

like holy shit, pardon me, but i'd rather not be the witness to your crumbling relationship

"i love women but ..."

i called trader joes corporate trying to pry secrets from them once. sometimes the bottom-level clerks are all we have access to.

lol @ goole

UGH. I *still* get Chuck Barris jokes even now!

or this guy...

http://www.javelinamx.com/batmobile/barris2.jpg

Liver flukes
Colon cleansing

People who say, "I love reading! It's so rewarding! I wish I had more time for it."

I sorta sympathize with this? But I also understand why this would be grating for you, given yr recent blog post.

kinda prefer the variation with the "I wish I had more time for it" tacked on than the one without. "I love reading! It's so rewarding!" <smug smile of self-satisfaction that they're rewarded in life> is wayyyyy more disturbing.

Well, I just can't understand why it's a shock. Perhaps this sounds glib because I have neither a wife nor children, but I believe that if you want to do something badly enough, you make time for it.

alfred otm

if you loved it, you'd make time for it. otherwise stop whining/being disingenuous

Just encountered...conversation with a coworker about new Fall tv shows.

Person x: "That new show 'Outsourced' is hilarious!"
Me: "I dunno. I didn't care for it."
Person X: "Why? Not hip enough? Haha." (Apparently I am viewed as some kind of hipster though given own awkwardness & nerd tendencies I beg to differ)
Me: "Main character was shocked at seeing a turban. Screws up his nose and is all "Ew! Curry! It came off as ignorant and not very funny to me."
Person X: "Oh I hate curry, I thought that was really funny."

....and I find a reason to go back to my desk. Tilting at windmills.

what if they were like, "reading is so rewarding. i wish i had more time for it but i'm too busy smoking weed, eating meat, watching television and discussing directions to read any books"

especially if for these people reading is so edifying.

xxpost

Classic opinion guaranteed to make my ears close over: "I never read or watch the news. It's too negative."

I'd have more respect if they said "reading is so rewarding. i wish i had more time for it but i'm too busy eating weed, watching meat, discussing television and smoking directions to read any books"

true, shakey mo: it's not just the expression ('i don't read fiction') but more a certain condescending intonation of "ahh, you pitiful child slaved to your pitiful your fantasy tomes... i only read the wall street journal and books from the business wall at the news stand in the airport")

John Waters: But do you know how widespread that reaction is? Well, you probably do know! People say they’re “too busy” to read fiction. Or they say that you only really learn if you know facts. Come on!

Paris Review: As if you don’t learn from a novel.

John Waters: Yes! But they don’t think you do. Which means they’re stupid.

John Waters: But do you know how widespread that reaction is? Well, you probably do know! People say they’re “too busy” to read fiction. Or they say that you only really learn if you know facts. Come on!

Paris Review: As if you don’t learn from a novel.

John Waters: Yes! But they don’t think you do. Which means they’re stupid.

i went through a phase of not reading fiction but i wasn't an asshole about it. i just got very into nonfiction for a while.

i went through a phase of not reading fiction but i wasn't an asshole about it. i just got very into nonfiction for a while.

like holy shit, pardon me, but i'd rather not be the witness to your crumbling relationship

OTMFM. Corollary to this are men who refer to their wives/SOs with definite articles. "excuse me, The Wife is calling." Er, she has a name jackass...

xposts to elmo: I thought you worked in a clothing store or something? What does it have to do with the Dead?

Yeah, Alfred, I guess I just wish I were better-read. I get envious when I hear about all the books people like you and n/a read.

But I also find it's a rare book that has that kind of can't-put-down magnetic pull for me. It takes me forever to finish certain books because I'm always distracted by the Internet or crossword puzzles or music or whatever. So I mostly wish I had more time to discover books that do appeal, or at least better discipline to stick with the rest.

Liver flukes
Colon cleansing

― Jenny, Friday, September 24, 2010 3:53 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

I really never hear anyone talking about liver flukes, but def. "cleansing," and "colon cleansing." "Going on a cleanse" meaning a juice diet or fast, or "I'm trying to eat clean" pretty much result in cerebral disengagement for me.

kkvgz: i do work for a clothing company! -- that makes, among other things, very recognizable tie-dyed GD merch

honestly i will tell ppl and they will react like "wooaaah yeah china cat sunflower man totally"

"i HATE cell phones" or proud declarations of not owning a cell phone.

"Mexican's are such hard workers"

(sometimes used in backpedaling from shit-talking about Mexicans around me - a half-breed Mexican)

OTMFM. Corollary to this are men who refer to their wives/SOs with definite articles. "excuse me, The Wife is calling." Er, she has a name jackass...

I was kind of guilty for this in a couple relationships, in that I'd refer to "the woman." Didn't mean it as a reacting to nagging/partial insult thing, but as a "this is The Woman." I also refer to The Cat and The House and such though.

Are there really still people who don't use cell phones? Kudos to them. It's a concept as mythical to me as going off the grid altogther.

"as if we don't all basically work for some random thing we would barely care about if they didn't pay us"

this isn't how I feel about my job. ... kinda sad if that's how everyone else feels about their jobs

― Gene Shalit in a Child's Sailor Hat (Shakey Mo Collier)

Shakey, lots of people find ways to see the value in their work and find it rewarding and meaningful and do it well, but let's not go all naive about this. I mean, if you weren't getting paid to, say, work at a store, you would not sit home worrying that someone couldn't find the item they wanted, or that the store's service was bad. (Even a teacher or nurse might not spend 40 hours a week super-invested in everyone else's health or education!) That doesn't mean you can't care or feel good or be non-sad about what you do, just that it doesn't have to be the #1 thing in the world you would care about otherwise. If I won the lottery I would not really stress about typos on pharmaceutical websites, but because someone hired me to, I can feel fine, productive, and not-sad about sitting down and correcting them.

^ my boyfriend doesn't have a cell phone because he doesn't like the expectation of availability it presents, he just doesn't feel like he needs to be on-call for everything. and I sympathize with that especially when ppl get all "well, why not, how can you live without, etc" as if he is some sort of luddite

does he have a landline, tho?

we have a landline, yes, he has a sidekick with a data-only plan tho, it's amusing to hear people puzzle out "so you can text -- but you don't have a cell phone -- wait what?"

My high school friend only just got one a couple months ago. His boyfriend bought them both cell phones and on FB he protested having had one foisted on him. He complained about them before that and crowed about not owning one of those vile devices.

(Also, in a FB quiz with general life info questions like "do you have pets?" and "do you still talk to your first love?" he answered "what kind of car do you drive?" with "A white one. I don't feel like going out to the driveway to see what make and model.")

xp to Mordy

re: cellphones I think there are a lot of people now who don't really talk on or answer theirs -- who aren't always available in the least -- and for the most part use them as miniature laptops for writing messages and checking info. that's definitely what I do: I don't make or pick up calls unless I was planning on it or it's important.

our landline is a rotary phone fwiw lol

in my adult life to date i've never had a landline, so i guess going sans cellphone seems crazier to me than it necessarily should

My mom doesn't have an answering machine (she doesn't have a cell phone either) and takes a "well, if I'm not home... I'm not home" attitude about it.

generally speaking my cell phone is only for:

- texting
- finding ppl I'm trying to meet
- family contact
- OMG GAMEZ

nabisco, yea but u know some ppl get majorly put out if you don't pick up / don't call back promptly -- i don't blame him for wanting to avoid that expectation

My high school friend only just got one a couple months ago. His boyfriend bought them both cell phones and on FB he protested having had one foisted on him. He complained about them before that and crowed about not owning one of those vile devices.

Sure-fire annoyance: people who don't have a cell phone and constantly ask to borrow yours.

My cellphone is practically one of those old school Motorola bricks, and I like it that way: if I could send emails or use a browser I'd never get anything done.

people who talk shit about their significant other!

― Mordy, Friday, September 24, 2010 4:47 PM (40 minutes ago)

this

This thread to thread: Cell Phone

for the most part use them as miniature laptops for writing messages and checking info. that's definitely what I do: I don't make or pick up calls unless I was planning on it or it's important.

yeah ditto. my phone's always on silent and i rarely answer it - if it's important people can text or email. anyone offended by that can suck it.

what's "talking shit" -- "My boyfriend's a pig because he doesn't clean the shower"? It's not description -- it's a fact.

yes, calling your significant other a pig definitely counts as talking shit

Depends on how ironic you're being.

"Tarantino, what a filmmaker"

my boyfriend doesn't have a cell phone because he doesn't like the expectation of availability it presents, he just doesn't feel like he needs to be on-call for everything.

Your BF is a man I understand

yeah ditto. my phone's always on silent and i rarely answer it - if it's important people can text or email. anyone offended by that can suck it.

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, September 24, 2010 10:30 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark

lovin it

altho i have to say, i am proud to be one of these people that answers the phone

geez, though, folks expect people never to say anything less than "he/she is godlike perfection" about significant others, and get so weird if someone does! if someone has something mildly critical to say about their partner, something that's not mean or creepy, it's probably better for everyone to just hear them out. otherwise they have to live with this person and aren't allowed to tell anyone on earth that "hey, this person has an annoying habit or a flaw" without being looked at like a monster. it's probably better for their relationship if you just go "oh, I can see how that'd be rough -- but hey, he's still a great guy, right?"

^^^ exactly

Aside from the therapeutic benefits of complaining about your boyfriend's habits in the shower, it's a way of avoiding the hagiography that creeps into other friends' usual descriptions of their lovers.

sorry nabisco, but i part ways with you on this one. as far as i'm concerned, your relationship with your SO is sacrosanct and nothing poisons it more than talking about the person behind their back. if you've honestly got problems you need to vent about, maybe find some kind of mentor/confidante/parent something you can discuss a problem with. but just venting about the person? i'm definitely not on board for that.

mildly critical is one thing, some ppl just take it too far and it makes me cringe

I'm pretty sure nabisco -- certainly I do -- assumes the "venting" is to a good friend.

you folks seen 'the ref'? good movie

the way you represent your coupledom to other people is a very tricky thing. don't wanna seem too cute, don't wanna seem too negative.

i think the venting is a problem, not the good friend. if they're doing something that you don't know how to deal with, i can see talking to someone privately to solicit advice about how to deal with it, whatever. but the venting on its own is just destructive.

- ppl who express stupid opinions on things they know shitfuck-all about AND don't even have any bearing on their own existence

Well there goes every fun message board discussion ever.

what i have trouble with is when i'm like really happy with my couple status, and i want to talk about it but then i get really self conscious about those ppl who don't like that

you know i really try not to be all "well we did this and we did that, and then he brought home the most delicious MUFFIN!"

i think the venting is a problem, not the good friend. if they're doing something that you don't know how to deal with, i can see talking to someone privately to solicit advice about how to deal with it, whatever. but the venting on its own is just destructive.

That is so weird. Sometimes you need to vent to a good friend about stuff and on occasion that might include your SO and I think that in most cases that is fine.

so your issue is more with the way the problems are being talked about than who it's discussed with? does 'venting' here mean 'telling a large group of ppl about the issue at hand'? (or: telling everyone EXCEPT your SO about your problems with said SO?)

in the past i've maintained a certain level of discretion about my relationship difficulties but there were definitely times where i felt i had to confide something in someone, some private fear i had about how things were going. i always keep this in mind when my friends come to me with their own SO issues.

xp to mordy

yeah ditto. my phone's always on silent and i rarely answer it - if it's important people can text or email. anyone offended by that can suck it.

This kind of deserves its own thread but I'm not down with the new expectations on availability either (i.e. if you don't respond to someone's text/email/fb/phone within a day or so you have been rude or need to explain yourself) even though I engage in it sometimes.

I think there's a pretty obvious difference between: 1) here's something very personal about my significant other that i'm going to complain about in a non-productive way to make myself feel better, please sit down and enjoy me bitching about them and 2) i have this problem, i feel like i need to get it off my chest, do you think we could discuss it? 1 is super destructive imo and what I consider "venting," esp if you employ the word pig to describe the SO no matter how ironic. 2 can work and i can understand how it can be important for people.

Does number 1 happen often in your experience?

You're reading my statements without taking into account vocal inflections.

xpost

actually i got into a fight with my lover about his talking about our shiz with other friends

i was like uhhh... nope. stop.

i mean it was personal stuff.

yes, people often say cruel things about their significant others in my presence and it always makes me cringe and it seems to serve no purpose except to exhibit how much like the lockhorns the couple is.

i think we're imagining different scenarios. for some reason i'm thinking of said venting happening at a party! which is serious dnw. i'm not the jury here, i'm just getting a drink thx.

like it really hurt my feelings. all this time, i didn't know. ppl were like, judging - thinking things, about me and us. no good.

but yea "UGH he JUST does not know how to put away the laundry" is totes different

yes, especially if you're asking someone to arbitrate who is right and wrong in your relationship; that is so mind-boggling to me. is your SO such a stranger to you that you need to ask a third party to tell you that you're right about your fight with them and bring them into the relationship and open up all this private stuff to them?

That's such a strange way of looking at it! Is your relationship with your s/o so sacrosanct that you can't discuss it with close friends?

Yeah, it is.

tell us about it

We won't agree then: I've never had a boyfriend I've loved more than my friends. Ideally they would complement each other.

i rly just think it's an issue by issue thing. but to think that all problematic issues are off limits in terms of conversation with friends is beyond my scope of mental reasoning, personally.

alfred OTM

i dunno

i don't think it's so definite that you love your boyfriend and your friends just the same

We won't agree then: I've never had a boyfriend I've loved more than my friends. Ideally they would complement each other.

So this isn't true for me. I'm happy that my friends and my spouse all get along and we have a social group that we're happy in and everything. But my wife always comes first and I certainly love her more than my friends. I love my friends too, but not nearly as much.

i mean, there's a reason you wouldn't do certain things with your friends, and i'm not just talking sexual things. yes, i know exactly what you mean - i love my friends to death. still.

(ps this is one of those threads that it's really 20 threads)

(it's like, opinions! have them! let's talk)

kinda with Mordy on this one

i rly just think it's an issue by issue thing. but to think that all problematic issues are off limits in terms of conversation with friends is beyond my scope of mental reasoning, personally.

otm

I've never been the confessional type anyway -- I'm notoriously revolted by complainers -- but the line Mordy's drawn here is awfully big.

(for the record, my parents would agree entirely with him)

I guess I'm with Mordy too; it usually wouldn't occur to me to be open to others about the specifics of our relationship. & yet friends do this to me all the time, in particular wrt sex...which I gotta admit I find titillating, even if I'm not going to reciprocate.

I have to side with Mordy on this.

I have one or two close friends in whom I would privately confide regarding issues in my relationship, people whom I've known for a long time and who "get me," etc. But it bothers me when people sit down on barstools and just go, "Ugh, Rachel is being such a bitch lately." It doesn't happen that often among people I know, but it's still irksome.

Oh, let me be clear: I'm not advocating that either.

Yeah, that's not what I was talking about at all. That's weird.

nakhchivan, that's a fair point, except i've met a number of people who take pride in not connecting to any kind of popular entertainment which leads me to believe there's something more at play than just not connecting to any of the manifestations of popular entertainment.

― Mordy, Friday, 24 September 2010 20:48 (2 minutes ago)

back to this, cuz i think it's possible to profoundly out of step with mainstream culture for reasons that have nothing to do with that pride - even when pride is evidently present. i mean, the pride can come later, as a way of dealing with the underlying out-of-stepness. like, i've never dug sports of any kind, not even the more elitist-appealing niche & euro sports. i've always felt like a weirdo and grew up reading sci-fi novels at the back of the class. but hardcore sci-fi fan culture repulses me. i can't see the appeal, and at some point i moved on to punk rock, then just to art in general. and all these things (sci-fi, punk, art) are often outsider-y and oppositional, sure, but i think i attached myself to them not in order to demonstrate my superiority to anyone or anything else, but because they resonated so strongly with my basic sense of alienation and yearning. teenage stuff, you know? and it's weird to be pandered to, to feel like a cog in a machine, especially when you're young and just beginning to sort out who you are.

in the long run i'm much more comfortable with mainstream american commercial culture than i used to be, but there's still a lot of stuff i just don't/can't connect with. i don't like reality shows, laugh tracks, sports, radio call-in programs, most popular comedians & comedies, etc. on the other hand, when i do go out to see a show by a band i like (metal or punk, mostly), i love being part of the crowd and showing my support. i'm perfectly happy to make small talk and to share in the sorts of ritualized exchanges/conversations nabisco was talking about earlier, but i don't know how good i am at sustaining relationships based on that kind of thing. just saying that what looks like pride in one's nonconformity might be nothing but simple and hard-won self respect.

rachel was being a bitch tho, let's be honest

I actually can be fairly confessional about lots of other aspects of my life, including my sexual history, but airing out the dirty laundry in my current relationship just seems so gauche.

^ this, i will tell people pretty much anything about anything they ask about (my religion, politics, salary, health, whatever) to a fault and i've had to work on shutting up on a lot of things for politeness sake. just not this one thing.

here's still a lot of stuff i just don't/can't connect with. i don't like reality shows, laugh tracks, sports, radio call-in programs, most popular comedians & comedies, etc

there probably aren't many super-ordinary, unfailingly average kinda ppl who like all of those things

yeah, unsolicited announcements like that (outside of a private heart-to-heart with closest friend about a single subject that's been bothering you lately) seem weird

thought you meant just replying to idle "disgusting savages" talk like "ugh my roommate does x and it drives me mad" with "oh ha, my girlfriend does that, it annoys me sometimes but mostly we are chill", for example - I guess this is rude too but it seems more or less acceptably banterish if not dwelt on

xposts

militant tech types who get in my face when I mention that I make my living as an iPhone/Objective C programmer. (Apple sucks, it's a closed system, blah blah blah). Ahem... It's my job. STFU.

Hahah my flatmate has this issue (he does iphone coding for EA Games).
His reply? "Every time you mention Linux you gain 2 kilos".

=)

doesn't really fall under "opinion, when expressed," but i just hate dealing with people whose range of conversational interests is limited to the shittiness of everyone and everything else. bad relationships, bad jobs, bad politics, bad friendships & roomies, the endless injustice and stupidity of it/them all. and how it's never really their fault, but some fucker is always trying to fuck them over or take them for granted or whatever. so exhausting.

suspect, on the other hand, that i am often one of these people. yipes.

x-posts - Mordy I *think* I get what you're saying but I think there's a diff between the Rachel is a bitch thing and having an issue that you really need to confide in a friend about. Maybe you have never had those kinds of issues in a relationship but I know I have and my friends have proved invaluable during those times.

i totally get the confide in friends thing. tbh, i've never done it myself (tho i've confided in my brother about things at times). i'm talking about the venting.

xposts -- yeah, I think we're all just imagining different things. (like surm, what you're talking about is really too bad, someone who broadcasts all your business all around town -- that sucks, man!)

part of what I'm talking about is that I've seen folks get really uncomfortable and "trouble in paradise" over someone making a comment, joke, or grumble that's basically ... the way you'd joke about your best friend, when everyone knows you're best friends and now you can say wow, my friend did the dumbest thing the other day! not airing your deep personal concerns, just acknowledging that your loved one is a separate human being from you and is sometimes funny or annoying or does weird stuff. honest to god, people will get tense or uncomfortable about that, and I don't understand it. to me, having a relationship involves actually enjoying relating on that level, not just having some kind of contract of silence and internal negotiation.

idk. i would never say to friends, or in company, "you should see what my SO did yesterday! she can be so clueless sometimes." like the very idea makes me uncomfortable. but i'd say directly to her privately, "lol, i can't believe u did that!" like, this doesn't mean we never criticize each other or make fun of each other. it just means we don't do it in public.

i suppose a heuristic could be....if you could be bothered / could afford /.... to pay someone to listen to your (probably tiresome) spousal confidences/venting, would you still be complaining to your friend about them?

"you should see what my SO did yesterday! she can be so clueless sometimes." l

don't like this stuff at all

yeah, that's pretty gauche

Is your relationship with your s/o so sacrosanct that you can't discuss it with close friends?

This statement gets me, because I would say it is, but there's a part of that relationship that is almost necessary to share to keep the relationship separate from your sense of self. Sometimes it's not possible to back up and see the big picture of things if you're in the relationship, and friends can provide the necessary perspective.

This is a lot more important when you're a relationship novice or in a bad situation, but if your relationship is causing you stress, then you need someone to explain things to. Not necessarily vent to, but someone who can understand.

Then again, I also wish I'd just outlined to friends and family how a past relationship was going so they could have said "WTF MIKE, GET OUT NOW!"

nabisco OTM? I mean there is a line between an extended rant about "my gf is a bitch, she is clueless" and a brief, amused "my gf does this thing which is weird and funny and maybe even mildly annoying to me but I love her and I'm sure I have weird habits too which she puts up with, heh". I can understand some queasiness about even approaching it, but...

"There's a conspiracy against God in this country"...

There's also the thing when couples go out together, like on couple dates, and you get people ribbing their S.O. about stuff, but there's this fine line between normal social banter and a weird passive-aggressiveness people adopt because they know that the context of the situation effectively prohibits their S.O. from doing much more than laughingly saying "Oh, I do not!" or "Oh, you're so unfair!"

Which gets especially weird and cringey when the person looks to the other couple for support, like "See, honey, I told you that was dumb."

this doesn't mean we never criticize each other or make fun of each other. it just means we don't do it in public.

are you out in public, often? Do you hang with other couples? I mean, kinda like the directions/home decor conventions nabisco was talking about upthread - the "my SO does this annoying thing" conversations with other couples is one of those things that it just seems like you do.

And it often ends up playing into stereotypes, though not always. Like when my ex and i were still together, we'd go out with a couple we were friends with, and we'd jokingly complain about stuff our partners did, but it would be funny because me & the other guy would have similar complaints - like our respective partners' compulsions to watch every special feature on DVDs

other convos that make me want to walk away:

"Jews control the media"
"Gays need to be rehabilitated"
"You are under arrest, place your hands against the wall."
"Sir, that container was meant for a URINE sample..."

Mordy I think you just drastically changed the valence of what I was talking about -- calling your SO "clueless" to other people is a shot. Whereas if your SO briefly becomes obsessed with Beanie Babies and you love and respect this person and just think that's funny, there are loving ways of joking around about how much you like this weirdo who is doing this weird thing. It's sort of the same way you'd joke about how your SO is really into True Blood but you think it's awful -- this is not relationship tension, it's just relating. And it's very, very different from being the creepy Longhorns couple who use an audience to needle each other and clearly have problems. I hear a woman happy and laughing while making fun of her boyfriend's Beanie Baby obsession and I hear people who get along pretty well.

I agree though that anyone who just casually says stuff like "man, my girlfriend's being such a bitch right now" is ... someone I'm not gonna feel like having a big conversation with.

(Also there is sort of an age thing here, cuz you know people marry or stay together for like decades and decades, and at some point the impact of saying "I'm really frustrated" or "we're not getting along" to a friend becomes really, really different, less significant in some ways and more in others.)

Also this conversation needs HI DERE in it.

xpost - oh man, I still don't know how to feel about the couples conversation where you trade info on weird habits. Though I like that people always make sure it ends up 2 against 2, like one or the other of the opposite couple has to be like "no, I do that too, it makes perfect sense to me!"

this is not relationship tension, it's just relating.

yeah exactly - and really, you're just people, even if Rachel is being a bitch. Maybe she is? Maybe Rachel would describe herself as bitchy? Maybe Rachel is being seriously abusive and her partner is finally coming clean about how she treats her/him?

otoh maybe Rachel's partner is the kind of asshole that doesn't realize that they're an asshole and blames all their problems on someone else.

Maybe Rachel's partner believes that Jews did 9/11 and likes to joke about putting bacon fat in vegan food.

there's a huge difference between someone who makes a casual habit of griping abt their Rachel to anyone who will listen, and someone who, due to serious shit they're trying to sort out in that particular moment (not all the damn time), needs to vent about Rachel at/to someone they can trust.

cuz while the former is intolerable, the latter is the kind of thing you sometimes just have to deal with in the name of friendship, right?

in my experience it is usually much easier to vent/joke about your SO with same sex friends. bros can bro-down about relationship quirks and ladies and lady-down about relationship quirks, but otherwise it can get weird. there is a sort of unspoken competition between those of the same sex to be a fulfilling mate and if you expose the "chinks" in their "armor" (i.e. the apparent happiness of the relationship) people often get uncomfortable.

so even though it shouldn't matter at all when its just funny superficial quirks, sometimes people will read into it and project tension onto the conversation when there isn't really any there and then it can be difficult to diffuse the tension once it's been introduced.

It's so weird we're all having this conversation. I've assumed reasonable people know the line between the playful joshing of good friends and the distasteful revealing of secrets.

yeah, i was thinking more in a non-close-friends situation

so like instead of a strange man asking if you've seen the ass on that one, it's a strange man saying, "My Rachel is such a bitch"?

I've assumed reasonable people know the line between the playful joshing of good friends and the distasteful revealing of secrets.

This is kinda a tautology because knowing things like this makes you reasonable. Obv we're talking about people who express opinions that make you want to leave the conversation ie: unreasonable people who don't know that line.

ftr, i don't believe saying, "lol, my spouse loves collecting beanie babies. isn't that cute?" is transgressing the sacredness of the relationship.

was hanging out with [unnamed relative] who i haven't seen in ages a year or so ago. barely know the guy. we were sitting up late and drinking a beer, neither of us drunk. he comes out with, "you know, sometimes i just hate my wife and kids," or words to that effect. "i look at them, and i think of all the things i could be doing if they weren't around, if they hadn't happened." says this with a totally blank and affectless delivery, just shootin' the shit.

and i guess maybe that's a universal emotion for married parents, the occasional doubt. i've heard almost (but not quite!) similar thought from close friends with spouses/kids, that sometimes you wonder, you know? but never just dead-eyed, "i wish they didn't exist." certainly not from relative (ha) strangers. creeped me out. didn't know what to say. "ha ha yeah."

hell is other people

Maybe I'm just super-gossipy, but some of the best and funniest conversations I've had with my s.o. have been after a get together when someone else overshared too much. ("can you believe what just happened?!")

so like instead of a strange man asking if you've seen the ass on that one, it's a strange man saying, "My Rachel is such a bitch"?

^^ this is totally a common conversation-ender thing for me, yes. any time another man seems to be inviting you into the circle of, you know, "we're all guys here, therefore let's talk about that woman's ass / complain about how our wives or girlfriends are bitches / talk about how so-and-so is a whore" -- always awful. especially because guys who presume to do this often do not take the hint of a disapproving reaction or a mild "not sure I agree with that," and will drive you to openly clash with them.

btw mordy saying "isn't that cute" adjusts the valence in the other direction! I dunno, to each their own, but my wife is free to call me a weirdo or point out that I did something frivolously dumb any time she wants; she knows what things I'm actually sensitive or care about, and I think I know hers, and I personally wouldn't worry about good-natured eye-rolling unless I thought we might not actually like each other.

I think my idea here is that every relationship will have its own boundaries and comfort with that, so I don't think people outside it should get freaked out or judgmental! like if two people seem genuinely happy but mock or tease or grumble about each other, it's not our place to make that a relationship problem unless we have reason to believe it's a problem for one of them. but this thread is about what conversations you feel like having, so if other people's relationships aren't one of them, that's fine.

my boyfriend has a close friend (bisexual btw) who is in a committed but sometimes difficult relationship with another woman. sometimes my boyfriend has to be on point to help her process some of the issues and feelings about her relationship -- it's good and natural and healthy to want to talk about things with someone you trust. however, sometimes she'll call him up and just start spinning her wheels about how much of a bitch her s.o. is being today -- this is not so great! even worse, i feel, is when she starts in on her s.o. when in the company of me, or other additional people. this is just not fair, and not classy. don't air that shit out, please.

(also one of the reasons my boyfriend does not have a cell phone is to avoid those aforementioned bitchfest phonecalls, haha)

i think a lot of people have a high tolerance for combativeness in their relationships. personally, it makes me uncomfortable, and i don't want to be burdened with the insider knowledge of other couples' shit unless my help or advice is being sought. not from one party, and DEFINITELY not from both of them at once. there is no worse anxiety than realizing that you have been unwittingly cast in an impromptu staging of "who's afraid of virginia woolf"

an additional thing that is totally my own hang-up and i don't think it's normative at all: when the wife/girlfriend in a relationship bitches to me about her husband/boyfriend i always feel exceptionally uncomfortable, much more so than if he were complaining about her.

lol that seems pretty normal to me actually

there is no worse anxiety than realizing that you have been unwittingly cast in an impromptu staging of "who's afraid of virginia woolf"

the best is when it is not a phone call, but actual visits to couple house in the deep woods late at night, with recriminations, whiskey, torn or suddenly missing clothing, storming off barefoot into the southern darkness, etc.

and the girl looks like Sandy Dennis.

honestly I would rather be trapped with a couple sniping at each other than one of those couples where one person does the sniping and the other just smiles weakly.

although ... I once briefly met a couple once that consisted of a normal older woman of average attractiveness, and a man, several years younger, who was really handsome, fit, well-dressed, and I think some kind of surgeon. their conversation consisted of the woman joking in this domineering way about how hopeless he was at everything, while he stood behind her smiling benignly and not looking the least bit bothered by it. and that is the one case where, I guess partly based on their different levels of "attractiveness" on paper, I was like ... I guess this guy is just cool and comfortable with this. you never know what people get out of each other, and maybe that dynamic was perfect for both of them.

^^ this is totally a common conversation-ender thing for me, yes. any time another man seems to be inviting you into the circle of, you know, "we're all guys here, therefore let's talk about that woman's ass / complain about how our wives or girlfriends are bitches / talk about how so-and-so is a whore" -

yeah, i was going to post something along those lines in this thread. i don't mind a guy sharing his lecherousness w/me so much, (gross/annoying tho it may be in many instances) but when it's a dude launching into some rant about "bitches blah blah blah blah", it's just the worst.

especially because guys who presume to do this often do not take the hint of a disapproving reaction or a mild "not sure I agree with that," and will drive you to openly clash with them.

exactly.

i'd imagine i would've been embarrassed for her xpost

sometimes with lecherousness it's not the thing itself so much as acting like it's acceptable! like okay, I admit you and I both just looked at the woman walking by in that outfit, but at least I feel bad and didn't to it openly. I'm appropriately ashamed and you want to discuss it with strangers?

lol Mordy did you bring up the Lockhorns again? I am still cracking up about that.

He did! I noticed that and LOLd earlier tbh. I completely forgot about them.

He was trying to tell me over IM last night something serious about this and I got lost in the shitty empty existential void of the Lockhorns.

Man, I don't even remember what we were discussing last night, Abbott, but the Lockhorns are a reference for every season :P

In response to me being a socialist:

"Socialism? you COMMIE!!!! how many people had to die in Russia before you learn it doesn't work" and other forms of ignorance....

― Remedial Thug Motivation (San Te), Friday, September 24, 2010 4:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Ugh, exactly...plus the attendant, "Well, why don't you live in China/Cuba/some other Stalinist state that was never actually socialist?"

"Communism sounds great on paper - it just doesn't work in reality!" = most tedious line of conversation EVER?

amen. and it's not like I'm naive enough to think that we'll ever implement a completely socialist society in the US, it's just an idea/belief I have as to our best interests.

basically if you express an opinion about pro-sports my mind leaves my body and goes off to do something more interesting

― pay to the order of Iron Balls McGinty, $1 and NINE CENTS (Shakey Mo Collier)

Great, I know what the sole topic is gonna be at my next SF Visit FAP. :)

out of body experiences?

what terrible irony! the cable guy came this week to our new apartment and set up a connection to plug into our internet, but didn't split it to go into our television. i am without tv!

out of body experiences?

― sarahel, Saturday, September 25, 2010 4:16 AM

YES. I usually quote Fleetwood Mac, "I keep my visions to myself." ughh! IME, the two or three people I've said this to are either flattered or distracted by the reference and move on.

this is sorta unrelated, but how about conversations where the other person interjects a lot of sound effects as filler (for example, "PEW PEW" laser noises)? I had one close girlfriend who did this all the time and it drove me insane trying to figure out why she was so uncomfortable with our silences.

i was talking with someone who says she speaks a lot to fill up the empty space so her thoughts don't drive her insane. i'm comfortable with my thoughts and with silence, but i love good conversation -- i think if you need to talk, you should at least try to say something meaningful rather than just babble.

the problem i have with people who do talk a lot as a defense mechanism is that most of them are incapable of talking about anything except themselves and their problems.

- criticism of israel is anti-semitism

yes, and I'll add the flipside to this:

Judaism = warmongering zionism.

"ive never heard of that word; how is that in the scrabble dictionary?"
or
"we should use a real dictionary to play"

a) y'all should learn about how dictionaries are made if you think "real" dictionaries dont have inclusion-agendas (btw "agendae" not playable)
b) there's tons of word you dont know, asshole

i was talking with someone who says she speaks a lot to fill up the empty space so her thoughts don't drive her insane. i'm comfortable with my thoughts and with silence, but i love good conversation -- i think if you need to talk, you should at least try to say something meaningful rather than just babble.

― that's so percussion (get bent), Tuesday, October 5, 2010 6:53 PM

so otm

i think it depends on how well you know someone - i mean, it's different when it's a casual acquaintance vs. like, your best friend or your mom. My mom definitely babbles to fill empty space.

- "the fashion industry" is horrible towards women because it's run by faggots

"how about conversations where the other person interjects a lot of sound effects as filler (for example, "PEW PEW" laser noises)?"

This sounds fantastic! Over years wouldn't it be honed and refined like a comedian's standup routine into an entire space opera?

Meaning it's less annoying coming from family or best friend? Because, No.
xxp

Yeah but I don't need to listen as closely to my mom's verbal wanderings, like, because I already know where that bus lets off; I can guess where it's going and kind of just meet her there. With a strangers, it's a lot harder to fake.

i sort of like to hear ignorant/crazy opinions. i just look right at the speaker and make non-commital "mmm-hmm, uh huh" noises and see how far they go. plus i don't really care that much if somebody is a little bit dumb or snobby or nuts or whatever, nobody's perfect.

seems just as assholish to cut somebody off and walk away, head in the air, nose turned up: "good day to you, sir, you IGNORAMUS!"

plus i think sometimes people will come out with stupid bullshit to goad you. if you just shrug and don't rise to it, half the time they look dissapointed.

xp Laurel - exactly!

it also makes me aware that i've inherited this tendency to some degree, and try not to succumb.

eh show of indignance is not how it goes down at all

usually for me it's like *rapidly finishes drink* "oh look, i have to refill my drink. excuse me."

i mean, somebody has to suffer the fools & assholes, but unless i'm being paid for it, i'd prefer it not be me

"agendae" not playable

"agenda" is already plural in Latin anyway

but, much as I got to know the 2-letter words on a Scrabble-like online game I once played way too much of, if I'm playing Scrabble with real life people I do appreciate the "don't spell words you can't define if asked" rule - ok, it hammers home how many words I read and absorb and never actually know the dictionary definition of, just busk a little, but still

I just like Scrabble more at the "spelling a word intersecting with another word" level than the "memorising obscure 2- and 3-letter shrapnel, allowing you to pack the board with no spaces and making it really frustrating by turn 6 because you have a bingo on yr rack but can't put it down as there are no free tiles" level

"we don't go and build churches in their country"

"ground zero in New York. I say we SHOULD allow it.. Then open a strip club next door, called 'You Mecca me horny' a gay bar on the other side called 'Turban Cowboy' and across the street a Pork diner called 'Iraq o' ribs' and a brothel called 'Allah women u want' then lets see if tolerance works BOTH ways......" makes me delete people I knew in high school from fbook

generally some challop like: "i don't believe in watching television," or "sports are boring / stupid," or any variation where the person is putting down something enjoyed by many people in order to bolster their own cultural claim.

what about people who have no problems with other people watching TV or following sport, but have no interest in them themselves? Oh wait, that's not an opinion.

this one time i was getting a taxi home in dublin and the taxi driver was ranting and raving about everything, racist stuff, criticising the govt, the church, literally anything and everything. i was really hammered and couldn't really engage much so i just kept shouting him on, like "and then they'll charge us for it, the bastards!" etc, at appropriate times. by the end he was like "YOU'RE DEAD RIGHT." and "NOW YOU HAVE IT SON" at everything I said...wish I could employ this technique more often.

ah i do that all the time, it helps to justify the fees if you think of taxi drivers as entertainment as well as transport tbh

THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER

(sorry)

my brother told me in the 90s he got a taxi and the driver boasted for the entire journey about how he'd just thwarted a junkie who tried to rob him by stabbing him with his own syringe...

Here's one I heard from numerous people in 2001-2003. and this didn't make me leave the convo, this made me call the person several names that made them feel bad.

"There is no such thing as an 'innocent victim' in a war, because the inhabitants should have overthrown the government or fled."

"The Iraqis that drove back to Baghdad during Shock and Awe deserved to die, they should have left".

"The Iraqis should have overthrown their corrupt government".

"Those who died in Afghanistan will die because they refused to take a stand against their corrupt government"....

et al

Total lol at LG.

I will try that.

my uncle bob ( a taxi driver) has this very cool telescopic steel spring loaded truncheon/sap. he loves detailing all the times he's gotten to use it.

is that an illegal weapon yes

i dunno!

Yeah, i think those life preserver type things are illegal. Swordsticks the like. Wasn't it Anthony Burgess who would wave his swordstick at would-be assailants shouting 'I've got cancer you know!'? I think it was.

i doubt it- he doesn't break laws, as such, he just gets a kick out of legitimate force at his own discretion i'd reckon

eh it seems dubious now i check, i'll ask him has he still got it when i see him again

a junkie's syringe is a legal weapon, under the "ah drugs, for jaysus sake" amendment of 1986

that would be a hydrothermical matter

recently got a taxi to the club where i dj, manchester 9pm on a friday night. the driver was muslim and started talking about all the drunk people wandering around, saying he would never consume alcohol as it was quite common for men to go home after a night's drinking and have sex with their children.

couldn't even begin to dispute it, all i could do was lol.

it's great to get that form another perspective tho- shows that no matter the background of the taxi driver, they're all just fucking cracked in the head

I was getting a taxi to San Francisco airport once, and the taxi driver asked where I was going. When I said "Ireland", he said "Oh, I hear you guys pay a lot of taxes over there", and I thought I was heading for some rant about socialism, and then he followed it up with "Course, you get a lot more in the way of social services. They should really do more of that over here".

i bet he pulled that nonchalant swereve gotcha there shit on people all the time"

also our taxes are low! kinda, relatively. apart from the stealth ones. pay public servants more is what i'm getting at

dirty vicar, that's classic!

An Ethiopian cabbie once took me out to dinner after I paid my fare.
Another cabbie performed reiki on my hands.

socially conscious cabbie is awesome!

"They won't take dogs in their cabs, or handle pork at the supermarket checkout!" - my mother on Minneapolis' Somali community SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

What do they do when someone wants to buy pork?

yeah, all those times i want to take a dog into a cab...

weirdly enough, i usually get the opposite of LG's racist taxi driver: another friday night, this time going home from the club to the other side of mcr city centre, about 4am. really chirpy indian cabbie. i was tired but he couldn't hold back from telling me about the wonders of delhi and how over here the police don't care about stopping criminals. he painted a nice picture of how delhi's streets are full and bustling at 4am but without a single drunk. all about food and shisha apparently. i think he was being a bit rosetinty but it was late and i was in no mood to burst his bubble with nitpickery

it WAS rosetints too, he admitted he'd left india when he was 5 and had only made the odd visit back!

closest i've been to the stereotypical cabbie is the odd one who comments on the gay village in a weary uncle "those pesky kids *chuckle*" kinda way. reflects pretty well on manchester, i guess

one night i was coming home in dublin, it was bucketing down rain as i recall, and i jumped in a taxi and the driver, old married bloke with no kids in his 60s, was like... genuinely interesting, intelligent, unbelievably well informed about technology and things you wouldn't expect someone of his age to know about, and just overall a great guy. it wasn't just that he was genial, he genuinely took as read so many things that myself or people here would do about music, books, etc, the world in general, and was a great laugh as well. we were chatting in the car outside my house for about 20 mins...bizarre. i call him "the interesting taxi driver".

forgot to mention i had done about 4/5 ecstasys...

only joking i hadn't...

hahaha. yeah i got a taxi in coventry a few months ago. guy starts asking about what i do. normally a reluctant conversation for me. anyway i started telling him and within a few minutes we are discussing with hi-tech stock portfolio. amazing guy

xpost haha thats ace! there's another cab that goes around here known as the Party Cab. only ever got it once when i was hammered but pretty much everyone knows of it and loves it. the outside looks like yr standard black cab but the inside is decked out with flashing lights & lasers and a massive soundsystem. the driver is clearly an old Hacienda pillhead, it's brilliant to see just how *proud* of his cab he is, i just remember him beaming with delight at how blown away we all were when we stepped inside

(this probably deserves to go on a dedicated taxi tales thread)

another time...got a taxi from dublin city uni to my parents house, and the driver charged me a fiver, not twenty five quid, cos he felt bad about "ripping off students".

x-post yeah possibly, or a late night transit tales thread? i have a wealth of nightbus stories! the nightbus in dublin used to go till 0430 and it was a beautiful time, joints being passed, party invites handed out to every man, woman and child. now it goes way less frequently and everyone is either aggressive on booze or silent and passed out, or eating weird fast food from the two places that are open late, like a sausage roll in a breadroll covered in nachos or something.

have done the '20 mins conversation outside stop' with taxi drivers too, it's always a good buzz

once played a round of pitch n putt with a taxi driver on a quiet day, out of nowhere (never met him before)

might as well just continue the derail...

one time about...and this'll make me feel old, 7 years ago i guess, me and my friends had this huge meticulously planned drug session going to see stuart price dj, my parents were away at the time and we had decks etc in mine for after. anyway we were in the taxi home and, as can happen sometimes, the taxi driver was real old school and as soon as he realises everyone's on drugs, has a really narky attitude and is a bit scary.

so we got back almost to my house when my friend decides to go into his, around the corner, to get a bottle of whiskey. the taxi driver of course is raging at having to stop and wait and starts swearing and moaning and stuff.

there's this horrible atmosphere in the car as my friend gets back in with the whiskey, and the taxi driver is like "no more fucking stops then, RIGHT?", timing his "RIGHT" with him pressing his foot on the accelerator hard....

and reversing at serious force into a tree...halfway knocking the tree down, and fucking up his car.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

it would be too corny for last of the summer wine but irl that shit's so golden

lol! did you have to talk to the cops in your state after that??

no not at all, he just dropped us off (not outside my house, as we got a bit afraid of him calling the police) and we walked to mine. it was funny as there was a total silence when he hit the tree first, then one of my friends did that short stifled laughter snigger type mocking noise and everyone just exploded...

golden

also our taxes are low! kinda, relatively. apart from the stealth ones.

sure... but relative to American ones they are quite high. I think.

pay public servants more is what i'm getting at

this is something all right thinking people can get behind.

It's funny - I really hate taking taxis, to the extent that I will often walk for two hours rather than get in a cab, basically because of not liking to have to interact with people I don't know. But there do seem like there are loads of quite interesting and pleasant taxi-drivers out there these days.

have done the '20 mins conversation outside stop' with taxi drivers too, it's always a good buzz

hope you tipped well for all the work you cost him

think i did, actually, but he wasn't going anywhere anyways

I find taxis drivers are happy to shoot the shit on a quiet Tuesday night but can't wait to get rid on a Saturday night at chucking out time.

Got a taxi once, the driver looked like George Formby. He said "Do you mind if I put on the radio? There's this programme on that I always listen to.". I said OK no problem. He switches on the radio and it's Tim Westwood, and he's singing along and nodding his head.

forgot to mention i had done about 4/5 ecstasys...

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Thursday, October 7, 2010 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I usually get absolutely lovely and chatty taxi drivers when I'm a bit muntered, don't know if there's a causal connection...

Mini-cab drivers in North and East London tend to be Turkish or African, so you don't get rants about immigrants at least.

snoball's story is great, BTW.

Mini-cab drivers in North and East London tend to be Turkish or African, so you don't get rants about immigrants at least.

It would be great if they said something like "I am no racist, but as God is my witness, the people of England are all lazy drunken degenerates".

there's a story upthread pretty much like that!

oh yeah. Which reminds me of the time I was in a kebab shop, and some drunk wandered in to get a kebab, and the kebab shop worker said something like "This drinking the people in this country do is terrible. There is none of that in my country". I wondered if they had late night kebab shops in his country either.

late night kebab vendor complaining about drunk people shd probably pause for thought

There are probably late night kebab joints where he's from, next to the juice bars, coffee shops and shisha cafés...

Biting the hand that, ummmm, they , uh, feed