Coming to terms with your own mediocrity

I guess I'll preface this by saying that I've been depressed on/off for most of my life (more on than off). As I try to understand my depression, I come to the conclusion that it stems from the fact that I am mediocre in almost all ways. I will probably never be a rock star, amazing writer, successful businessman, or even a pillar in the community. None of my hard work ever translates into anything worthwhile. I am, in short, nothing special. And the world reminds me of my third-rate status every moment of every day. I am trying to come to terms with this fact, but it's hard for me. I would like some advice from anyone who has successfully faced this.

cultivate your heart-quality

eventually you'll level-up and gain new powers which are less mediocre

i may be too mediocre to understand what you're saying

i think you're being too hard on yourself.

I will probably never be a rock star, amazing writer, successful businessman, or even a pillar in the community

none of these are necessarily good ways to value yourself. being kind, sensitive, caring, attuned to the interests and vulnerabilities of others, quick to offer assistance or a kind word are all traits that elevate someone above "mediocrity." so does having verve, style, undisciplined creativity, and dozens of other traits.

This was a major thing to come to terms with for me over the past couple of years. I'll never be a great scholar or intellect. I'll just be fine eking out a small living for myself.

if yr cool with being 'mediocre' then you can still distinguish yrself in the eyes of others by being exceptionally chill/easygoing.

if yr not cool with it but think it's unavoidable u can distinguish yrself by being exceptionally intense (but still mediocre) — do not go gently etc etc

(I only kid because it hurts)

yeah now I'm more interested in just connecting with people, being amiable and keeping it positive rather than trying to impress like when I was a teenager — I guess this is the trend for a lot of ppl as they age

none of these are necessarily good ways to value yourself. being kind, sensitive, caring, attuned to the interests and vulnerabilities of others, quick to offer assistance or a kind word are all traits that elevate someone above "mediocrity." so does having verve, style, undisciplined creativity, and dozens of other traits.

maybe. but we live in a society where those things don't matter unless they translate into a commodifiable skill or status-conferring quality. all i do is constantly compare myself to others and realize that i'm just not stacking up. i feel like such a loser.

a.) I think some version of this is just sort of part of growing up for most people (realizing that probably you won't be X.Y, or Z amazing thing you might have dreamed of, because most people aren't); and b.) one of my favorite things about reading about people who I think are geniuses is realizing that even a lot of them are constantly beset by self-doubt and feeling like they in one way or another are falling short -- because it shows that that's a sort of natural human thing to feel, and not even a bad one. It helps keep you sort of grounded on the one hand and, hopefully, always trying to sort of do more or do better on the other.

And the good thing is, if you can let go of worrying too much about any of that stuff, you can enjoy an awful lot of things about life. (I realize that enjoying a lot of things about life is difficult if you're prone to depression, since I have good friends and family members who are. So I don't mean to preach happy talk here. But to whatever extent feelings of mediocrity or inadequacy are contributing to the depression, it might help to just accept them and let go of them as much as possible.)

coming to terms with your thread's bummerosity

all i do is constantly compare myself to others and realize that i'm just not stacking up.

everyone can do that. lots of people you wouldn't expect to do that do that. you have to have some faith in your own self-worth and value.

Your original post is great.

Best advice I can give to anyone: find a job where you love the people you work with. (Not literally--you know what I mean.) If you're happy going to work each day, you will never feel mediocre.

yeah, everyone does do that -- like when you sit there and think about some famous person like "you already have $50 million dollars, what do you need more money for?" it's cuz comparison is all relative -- it's easy i guess for us to answer our own rhetorical question by saying "well shit that person is rich/famous etc" but almost everyone feels inadequate compared to their peers

I feel like these elevated expectations happen a lot to people who have a clear sense that they're above average in various ways, and then realize that so are a signif number of other people. It's hard to feel distinguished in the larger world when you see it like that.

But we don't rly live in the "larger world," we live in the world as however we see it. There's a lot to be said for fooling yourself, and I mean that in the nicest way. You can choose to make yr world different than it is by building value in other stuff, like the people above said.

Whoops xposted cos I'm typing slowly on phone.

clemenza otm

maybe. but we live in a society where those things don't matter

"Society" is generally a load of crap that's not worth the comparison. Experience good books/music/visuals and try to be conscious enough to recognize Art when it flashes past, have good conversations, enjoy silence when you're lucky enough to find it, discard the rest.

Judge Smails: Ty, what did you shoot today?
Ty Webb: Oh, Judge, I don't keep score.
Judge Smails: Then how do you measure yourself against other golfers?
Ty Webb: By height.

haha. my favorite:

Judge Smails: You know, you should play with Dr. Beeper and myself. I mean, he's been club champion for three years running and I'm no slouch myself.

Ty Webb: Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're a tremendous slouch.

This point has been made a couple of times already, I think, but if I can maybe put it slightly differently: this is about perspective. Your life is your life. It is the only life you have. It is the only chance this universe is giving you, and it is rich and colorful and full of flavors of experience beyond measure. Maybe you (or I) will never see the skyscrapers in Shanghai, maybe they won't argue about something you've done in the pages of the New Yorker, maybe your obituary will have to be placed by family instead of being written in advance by all the wire services.

So what? Your life is your life. It is the only one you have. Take in the richness of what you have before you, even in the pain and sadness and difficulty, because no one else in the history of the universe will ever have precisely that experience, and you have a responsibility to yourself to be aware of it. I've found that when we look with a cleaner lens at the people and things in our lives they can appear brighter and more wonderful than we might have imagined. If that's 'mediocrity,' give it to me in spoonfuls.

Yes. :) You're the only you there is. And the more you see yr worth reflected by the people you've chosen to care for, the more valuable and secure yr place as yourself in the world becomes.

FUNDAMENTALLY A REITERATION OF WHAT A LOT OF OTHERS HAVE SAID ON THIS THREAD, BUT THEY'RE RIGHT:

Don't let yourself be guided by other people's standards, even if you choose to identify other people as "society". Just learn who you are and live accordingly. The world will catch up.

so did you (ilx, not just res) ever feel special? when, for how long, and why did it stop (if it has)?

And res for what it's worth I say all that as someone who has dealt with pretty serious depression throughout life and, a few years ago, was kinda obsessed with 'making an impact in the world.' I had no idea what kind of impact I wanted to make, I didn't know how I was going to make one, but I knew I HAD TO MAKE ONE or my life would be WORTHLESS.

In the time since I've come to recognize that the smaller impacts we make every day are more than worth their weight.

I'm certainly not perfect in many ways, but there are definitely aspects of my life where I refuse to settle, and while that can be the primary source of stress for me, it can also be awesome at times. Perhaps I have yet to reach enlightenment about this and perhaps I will never be truly satisfied, but right now I am not ready to compromise on these things.

I believe that you can feel this way and still be a "good", useful person, so long as you are not ignoring your responsibility to others.

I don't feel "special", but I certainly feel "different". I assume everyone does? Or most peoPle.

I don't think embracing your life has to mean settling for less than your best!

Never mistake comfort for complacency.

Like, I went through this thing where I was like "OK, I'm ok with not being a Famous Writer now, so I guess I can quit working on this collection of poems and let the novel rot," and then a couple of months later I realized how narrow-minded that was: learning contentment with your life and striving for greatness are not mutually exclusive.

actually i think admrl is probably special? dunno

I didn't say it was but I do sometimes regard my "best" as that which I have yet to achieve rather than something I am certain I am capable of.

totally

I have been told I'm special, tbh. I just didn't wanna rock the boat.

The small contribution is not worth less than the large one. Besides which, who's to say which is smaller or larger?

i think that most people i actually know are special, tbh, just in different ways

Let's not revive the thread where my perfectly innocent remarks got me accused of being a cynical type-A who doesn't want to be friends with "losers"

oh yeah i don't know any losers

sorry i was not at all insinuating! but there are some awfully talented and yes, special, ppl on ilx. it is sometimes daunting

http://www.charityadvantage.com/We_The_WorldHFZJEA/images/You-can-do-anything.gif

Totally repeating everything that everyone else said, but goddammit I AM SPECIAL (lol) - Keep your world small -- your effect on the lives of the people who are close to you is worth a lot, and has a much bigger impact than you'll ever give yourself credit for. Measuring yourself by the standards that the 'world' sets is easy, and depressing, because you'll never measure up. Do good in your day to day life, listen, be curious, never assume that you know all there is to know, be ready with a smile and the rest will come. All you can do is be the best you that you can be, because the rest just doesn't matter.

/super easy to say/write, much harder to pull off. But good to strive for.

is anyone up in this bitch into frederick exley's "a fan's notes"? it is essentially a rumination on mediocrity.

Because I actually do now some people like that, and obv they are pretty insufferable at times

is anyone up in this bitch into frederick exley's "a fan's notes"? it is essentially a rumination on mediocrity.

and being a sports fan, and a drunk, and fucked up every other way

more prescient every day

love that book so much

read it years ago and dont remember . . . nearly any of it, if any of it, tbh

Pretty sure the people who have invested the most in me, namely my parents, wish I thought I was MORE special and set higher goals for myself, but I don't rly care about that. I get more satisfaction from being special TO people, the people I choose to invest in.

at this point i have just accepted that my life will forever be me oscillating between

-being overly pompous & oblivious to my own mediocrity
-being self-defeating & overly aware of my own mediocrity
-being 'ok' with my own mediocrity

and also sometimes i get uneasy about the mediocrity of my surroundings & blame everything on that. kind of shitty & annoying but whatever, there is i think something rejuvenating and ultimately not too depressing about the process. coziness in mediocrity. it's frustrating to be forever at the whim of pathetic & self-aware forces, but for me it's lessened by the reassurance that it's always transitive

this thread is like a big hug

xpost Laurel I feel the same way!

Best non-Christmas Christmas thread ever

OMG THAT'S A REAL BOOK? I just started a book ABOUT that book. It's just called Exley.

This thread is like if the ILX World Fap was a massive group hug

Because I actually do now some people like that, and obv they are pretty insufferable at times

A fine standard for living: dealing with as few jerks/generally unpleasant people on a daily basis as possible.

Mediocrity? Me? Hah!

I am audaciously certain that, if such rankings were available, I would rank somewhere in the top 300 million people alive today!

A truly great film on this subject is Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy. If you haven't seen it: a DJ whose trademark is goofy bits and silly songs thinks he's not making enough of a serious impact on the world. After a crazy detour, the film ends with his realization that his goofy bits and silly songs make a lot of people happy, including himself.

MAYBE U SHOULD READ 'A FAN'S NOTES' FIRST

when you're in a good mood, at least

Odd bit of synchronicity: I had A Fan's Notes on my desk for about a month and a half (up til this Monday, actually) before I had to return it to the library. Didn't get around to it.

ok just read this thread: hoos otm

I do this thought exercise sometimes where I ask myself, "if I were to die today, would the world (and I mean the entire world, not just my loved ones) become a better place?

the answer is invariably yes, but I'm too wimpy and selfish to take the idea to its natural conclusion.

wait waht? i'm skeptical

impossible to measure accurately so prob best to stay alive

The longer u live, the more time you have to turn that into a definite No.

proven by science
unless you are planning on going on a genocide kick. in which case...

ugh, I just had to go and make a depressing thread more depressing. rrrobyn otm, and res and I probably just need our chakras realigned or something.

No need to beat yourself about being honest. Just perpetuating the cycle, yes?

Hey I self question constantly (CONSTANTLY), and my relative worth to/impact on the world in the whole = negligible, like most of humanity. Thing is, I've heard enough from folks over time to know I've done some good as I go, in writing, in being a friend, a good family member, just being myself. Even unconsciously -- I can name one friend who, via a fan list I ran for Oasis all those years back, ended up meeting her husband through the list; they now have three kids and love life. Stuff like that makes me smile, and while I make mistakes and can be very mediocre indeed, hey, life is still a good, wonderful thing and hopefully I get better as I go.

<3 neddd

big <3 for ned.

tbh the best answer for this is (imo) following the catechisms of rrrobyn.

i've only met her once v. briefly, but she seems just in tune with shit that people should be in tune with.

I guess I'll preface this by saying that I've been depressed on/off for most of my life (more on than off). As I try to understand my depression, I come to the conclusion that it stems from the fact that I am mediocre in almost all ways. I will probably never be a rock star, amazing writer, successful businessman, or even a pillar in the community.

I was reading an article in the Economist the other day about the "U-curve" of happiness. I guess on average, human happiness, across the world, declines during 30s and early 40s, generally hits a nadir in the mid-forties, and then climbs back up again, to the point that people in their 60s and 70s are actually happier (again, on average) than when they were younger. One of the ideas for what causes the decline AND the increase is that younger people tend to set unrealistic expectations (being a rock star, etc) and get bummed when they can't achieve their dreams, but as they get older they're happier with more modest achievements. So an a young woman might be depressed because her art career didn't take off and she's not famous, but as an old lady she's pretty fucking proud of having her watercolor displayed at a local fair and getting some nice compliments.

not sure if any of that is helpful but thought I'd throw it out there. I really sympathize with the original comment and struggle with the same issues, fwiw

thanks guy, for all the insightful and empathetic comments. it means a lot. keep going.

tbh the best answer for this is (imo) following the catechisms of rrrobyn... seems just in tune with shit that people should be in tune with.

I would like to confirm and celebrate this wisdom.

Yeah, so true.

So I just read somewhere that happy people are healthier, and people with the most friendships/connections to a variety of people in a variety of ways get sick less. So the more connected we are, the more different functions we perform for others, emotionally or w/e, the better our physical bodies work. On average.

Which raises the question, why haven't I come down with an incurable disease this year?

I am audaciously certain that, if such rankings were available, I would rank somewhere in the top 300 million people alive today!

Hey, if you ranked in the top 300 million people alive, you'd be at the 95th percentile or above. Not bad! :)

I guess it's like that thing where if you're one in a million, there are 7000 other people just like you.

Also, I am working on a ranking of every person alive and it is taking FOREVER

i'm coming to terms with your mediocrity

I am audaciously certain that, if such rankings were available, I would rank somewhere in the top 300 million people alive today!

― Aimless, Friday, December 24, 2010 4:28 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i love this dude

me too.

Haha totes

aw <3 you guys, too kind
any wisdom i've got comes only from a certain kind of broad-spectrum 'suffering' made manageable by other people (wise or less wise), small joys in the everyday, and this gd optimism I can't seem to shake no matter how existential my thoughts might get. But life is more like a spiral than a rising and falling line, I mean we'll go over the same ground but with the right kind of reflection and input and just plain work, we'll rise further above it and it won't be such a thing.

I really do think that everyone is special! A lot of people are numbed out to that fact abt themselves or have a warped idea of what special means, as if to be all that means someone else shouldn't/can't be. We've got a lot of false logic and info to unlearn/change, but it's part of who we are too! Honour the shadow, honour the light, keep on moving.

as Ned's xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpost exemplifies, the best way to gauge your worth to/impact on the world is to think of specific instances in your life when people have suggested that you're headed in the right direction. your self-image is bound to be a lot more trustworthy when it's based on real people and real events than when it's rooted in a general sense of worth or worthlessness. acknowledging that you're gotten a lot of bad reviews on your writing (without ignoring whatever positive feedback you've gotten) is healthy, because then you have a concrete starting point for self-improvement. but labelling yourself a mediocre writer because you have a vague sense that your writing isn't special is (in addition to being a tautology) much less helpful, because in that case your judgment has little to do with the writing itself and everything to do with your depression. abstract, quiet, reflection upon your place in the world has its value, but it's no substitute for just walking up to someone, asking what they think of you, and using their answer to shape your future.

that I don't follow my own advice often enough is evident if you read my other posts on this thread, but on most days I'm at least willing to try.

There's a lot of thoughtful writing on this thread, so I'm not trying to be glib here--I really do believe in the power that something like this has to cheer up anybody, under almost any circumstances (too much so, one of my own disconnects with the world):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY_6b4-N9Uo

ILX is boss when u r sad. Thoughtful smart hugsy ppl, each and every one.

Can relate to sentiments on this thread a lot. Lame and all as it is I still dream of fame, but I can't say I know what one direction or area I should focus on to achieve it.

It's made more frustrating by the fact that I do good media job in a company that most people who do what I do would prob love to work with.

I think for some people my job would provide a huge sense of achievement, yet to me it's just a job I can feel fine with at the end of a day, one I don't dread doing, and also one I can tell people about and it sounds (more) interesting (than it is)

Not that that's easy to find I totally accept, I prob sound stupid complaining. But the fact is you know when you're using or not using parts of your abilities.

What I've been trying to do, and maybe this advice will help you, is to get back into lots of hobbies and see where that takes me.

So I go running a lot (pre arctic UK weather anyway), I've joined a book club, trying to do some drama, and have lots of other things lined up for the new year.

What I'm finding, and it's an ongoing battle, is that this fight will remind you that you are your own person.

Lots of people are in your predicament and every time one of them acts surprised/interested as you tell them you ran 7 miles, did an audition, are learning to play the kotsozumi or whatever, you'll feel you are changing and growing.

I don't know if any of the things I'm doing will lead to new fulfilment work wise, but I think you can get a lot out of that feeling of growth.

Above all I recommend the exercise, since I started running I have a much bigger faith in life, for whatever reason. Nobody can take being able to run a big long distance away from you, it's got a v weird effect.

Also change other things, get a new haircut, buy weird clothes, do everything you can to remind yourself of who you are or what you like about self.

Let your moments of self reflection and self indulgence be about the book you're reading, or the clothes you're wearing.

I know some of the above isn't going to make you famous/successful, but I do believe it could make you feel better.

Just wanted to say that I totally understand where res is coming from, especially having to find a job these days. Being turned down job interview after job interview really triggers that mediocrity synapse center bigtime.

Otoh, lots of great advice above.

one of my favorite things about reading about people who I think are geniuses is realizing that even a lot of them are constantly beset by self-doubt and feeling like they in one way or another are falling short -- because it shows that that's a sort of natural human thing to feel, and not even a bad one

yes, so much. ever read joan didion on writer's block?

I've got this figured out. Crossing over from the Serenity Now/Festivus thread, we come on here, en masse, and air our grievances with res. That's all you really need to work through this.

(I have a habit of trying to joke my through everything. Keep your head up, and have a nice Christmas.)

Why would writers feel self-important at all when literacy is an enormous global problem that is barely acknowledged by the media? Some pop writer like Stephen King or J.K. Rowling has had a greater social impact than whatever is in the New York Review of Books. This should be encouraging, someone from an ordinary background could probably achieve that level of quality with hard work and time.

res, are you familiar with malcolm gladwell's 'outliers'? what he argues about success might make you feel a little better

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/lifestyle/step_up/?p=464

like other people in this thread I too have had the desire to be famous, to be recognized for my talents. what helps is to realize that, like for 99% of famous people out there, they are just ordinary people who chanced upon some opportunity that let them became famous. they 'happened to be at the right place at the right time.' it helps if you look at pictures of movie stars before they were famous.

it also helps to realize that there are immensely talented people out there who are willing and content to toil away in relative obscurity, and that there are small and mediocre people getting attention far and beyond what they deserve. life!

also, 99% of famous people out there are fucking lamers

I often think about an anecdote I read about diddy, almost sure it was on this message board, about how he hates waking up and feeling that crust of mucus and slime covering the lips. something about no matter how rich and famous you get, you're still not gonna escape the limitations of your body.

Famous =/= not mediocre. In fact, I'd think it'd be just as hard if not harder to be famous knowing you're famous only because you're mediocre!

One of my favorite magazine articles of all time was an EW profile of the star of "Nick Freno: Licensed Teacher," at the time the lowest rated show on television. The gist was basically the guy admitting that if this is what life on the bottom is like, life on the bottom is good!

There are people who do enormous things for humanity but who aren't famous and are never recognized for it. Fame worship is scary, if the famous person fails the admirer becomes hostile. Some people act like those they admire are their wife or something.

I am, in short, nothing special. And the world reminds me of my third-rate status every moment of every day. I am trying to come to terms with this fact, but it's hard for me. I would like some advice from anyone who has successfully faced this.

how bout hearing from someone--an old coot like me, fer instance--who's UNSUCCESSFULLY (mostly) dealt with such matters?

word to the wise(-ass):

1) experience (good/bad/indifferent--doesn't really matter all that much in the end, tbh) is its own just reward. live for it.
2) don't take it too hard (ie, life and all the inherent problems/obstacles it will no doubt toss yer way). and always keep in mind that "this too shall pass" ... eventually.
3) Prozac helps (talkin' from hard experience here; not at all trying to be snarky)!
4) listen to more metal (hey, it does wonders for me!).
5) if ya got and/or can get it, smoke it.
6) above all, try to find some amusement in everyday living (pets can be of enormous help/comfort in this regard--just try feeling down on yerself when you've got a playful pup demanding yer immediate attention, why dontcha).
7) nothing matters, and what if it did? (j/k)

I'll back up LG's exercise advice. There's a strong correlation between periods in my life full of happiness/productivity/high energy levels and periods of my life when I've done Pilates regularly (or some kind of strenuous physical activity).

Mediocrity is such a subjective term, too. I try and compare it to musical tastes. Like there are tons of musicians out there with SICK chops or massive fame who only seem to be able to make interminably boring music, but countless great artists who make great music simply because they do it their own way.

xxxp

One important thing, I think, is to learn to take seriously and appreciate kindness when you receive it. The acclaim of the masses or whatever is going to be out of most people's reach, but tbh I feel plenty good if someone just tells me they like my shirt. Or, on a more serious level, if one or two people say they like something I've written or said or done, etc. One thing I learned early on in journalism was to save every nice letter or note I get -- I forget who told me this, some grizzled vet or other. When someone's bitching at you or you're feeling shitty or self-doubtful, you can always pull those out and remember that somebody appreciated you enough to tell you. I also learned this in sort of the obverse by growing up and watching how my dad dealt with compliments. He's depressive by nature, and so even though he sort of I think craves approval and approbation, he also has a hard time accepting it -- he would tend to find some reason that some compliment or other didn't really mean that much -- because the person was stupid, or insincere, or just didn't know what they were talking about, etc.

For example, every year around Christmas I remember a note I got very early on in my career (which I still have in a box somewhere). I had written a little noir parody for our weekly paper, "12 Days of Christmas" by way of Raymond Chandler, and I got this handwritten card from a priest at the local Catholic university telling me that he had sat down Christmas Eve by the fireplace in his apartment and been thumbing through the paper and read my thing and had enjoyed it immensely. He went on to recommend to me the books of James M. Cain. The whole idea of that, the noir-fan priest by the fireplace reading what I had written on Christmas Eve, still makes me happy. And that he took the trouble to tell me, I'll always appreciate. You have to take these things where you get them.

Read Middlemarch (if you haven't already)

the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

It's a cliche set down like that - at the end of such a great book, it's symphonic....

I'm nearing the age of 26 and coming to accept that I was never hip and I'm perfectly fine with being tasteless and liking stuff that everyone else hates.

Best advice I can give to anyone: find a job where you love the people you work with. (Not literally--you know what I mean.) If you're happy going to work each day, you will never feel mediocre.

^^^

true wisdom, dis bit o' advice.

and not to get corny/new age-y or anything like that, but i DO believe that almost everybody CAN be excellent at SOMETHING. it's really a question of whether one wants to invest the time and energy in becoming excellent at a given activity. if one does, great. if not, then that's OK too if one really DOESN'T want to become excellent at whatever and is comfortable just getting along.

Aaron Altman: "Wouldn't this be a great world if insecurity and desperation made us more attractive?"

tipsy mothra's post is wonderful!

Everyone can be excellent at something, I feel sorry for people who have no inner moral compass and who are dependent on others' estimation of their "success" as a person. Being recognized or told that you are special does not equal being effective or special. Take it from someone who has been around the so-called "fortunate" and "talented" and found them depressing and stifling and frankly duller than some of my high school friends who didn't graduate from college at all.

"I am mediocre in almost all ways. I will probably never be a rock star, amazing writer, successful businessman, or even a pillar in the community."

it's not often that cynicism can be a soothing salve (it's an xmas miracle!), but mediocrity appears to be a defining characteristic of all those things,
and it's clear that if you want to succeed, your time is better spent cultivating contacts than excellence, so be of good cheer, and network like a madman!

all y'all who have found any kind of popular success in a tossed-off piece that you have no high regard for, while your proudest efforts languish in obscurity, back me up.

Do people still want to be "rock stars"? Most people on the charts now are rappers or singers. Most of the music charts are occupied by black people these days. Does the type of person who used to dream of being a rock star now lie in bed and say "I hope I turn black some day"?

no, i'll shove a golden dome up your butt (u s steel), I don't think that's what people do.

I am mildly amused at how us steel's trolling has a sort of languid 'thinking out loud' sensibility to it. It's kind of nice.

i feel the same way about sarah palin (a mediocrity success story if there ever was one)

this thread rings true for me in a lot of ways, whenever i feel like i'm frittering away instead of building up or working towards some conception i have of "greatness" that i see in other ppl and want to attain for myself as well (which is largely along the lines of 'i want to be a brilliant thinker or innovator, how do i shot genius', etc). and then i get bummed when i think of all the things i haven't done or haven't learned how to do yet in the 26 years and change i've been around. but i also realized recently that, you know, i have ONLY been around for 26 years and change; i'm JUST GETTIN' STARTED

100 xposts, but god 'A Fan's Notes' is such a great read

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lZ4czTR4o

Enjoy the things you do. Do the things you enjoy. Make conscious time every day in which to do this. Try and make it so you enjoy your job and are connected to your outputs (the fruits of your labour). I cook, I listen to music, I cycle, I talk, I write from time to time, I take photographs. I'm not exceptional at any of these but I'm good enough to please myself and feel proud every so often. Take compliments; consider whether you compliment others meaninglessly or as a lie and if you don't, I doubt you do, apply that thought to everyone else's compliments. But mostly, love people. Whether it's a deep romantic lifelong passion and companionship or just taking pleasure everyday in the things people around you do, love people. Being a rock star or a lauded writer won't make you happy. We're not here to do that. We're not here to do anything other than exist, so, as Hoos said, we owe it to ourselves to make that existence happy (and I don't necessarily mean delirious at every turn). Get over yourself. Enjoy doing things. Love people. Laugh. Breathe clean air an appreciate it. Whether I'm mediocre or not seldom if ever crosses my mind these days. Why should it? I can eat tiramisu that I made myself, I can stroke my cats, listen to beautiful music, cycle till my legs ache, love my wife, walk through a beautiful snowy landscape, and enjoy the company of my friends and family and colleagues.

Merry Christmas.

:') Lovely.

<3

I guess on average, human happiness, across the world, declines during 30s and early 40s, generally hits a nadir in the mid-forties, and then climbs back up again, to the point that people in their 60s and 70s are actually happier (again, on average) than when they were younger.

Oh, that's interesting. The 1.5 years of my 30s have so far been much happier than my 20s (which were better than my teens and got progressively better as they went on).

I think I'd actually be pretty surprised if most people's 30s were less happy than their teens.

I've 18 months in my 30s and they've been way better than my teens and twenties.

^^^ 7 and a half years in my 30s and despite unemployment and some other issues I feel better than I ever have. I'm really being myself a lot more now, and being comfortable with that, rather than being worried sick about people finding out what I'm 'really' like as I was in my teens/20s.

Do people still want to be "rock stars"?

No, everyone wants to look like an anime character.

a lot of good stuff on this thread. but just throwing my own two cents in:

i am underemployed, working part time for a fashion company and being a staff writer a few places. i also do some p0rn and stuff on the side. at first, i was like 'FUCK I HAVE A MASTER'S DEGREE WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE,' then i slowly realized that i actually like having free time, that i'm not always tired, and that i have a lot of friends who are in the same boat and we all love each other. also, my friend (and ex) told me a bit ago, 'what do you want to do? you can do it right now. everything is always changing. set your own path for yourself, fuck the rest of the world.' which is treacly in a way, but good advice in the end.

i think a lot of good can come from an embracing of one's own mediocrity if one doesn't get glum about it. healthy mindset imo, freeing.

yep. but in America it also gets tangled up with race. I, a mediocre replacement-level white man, have unearned privilege just because of the circumstance of my birth.

thats not embracing it

thats enracing it but i didnt mumble

I hate to sincere post but it’s awfully hot

you are not mediocre

you are a cunt though

As an adolescent I read many of the novels and essays of Mark Twain and in one of them Twain conveys an image that immediately struck me and has stayed with me up to now. I'll paraphrase his image.

He envisioned all the people in the world standing on a perfectly flat plain, creating a sea of heads. The height of each person in that mass of humanity represented the sum of their abilities. In his view, their heights would vary only by tiny amounts, nearly invisibly. And if you searched hard enough and were lucky enough to find someone whose height rose an inch or two above the rest, that person would be such a towering genius their contributions to the world would be remembered for as long as human history.

I’ll tell you what I am totally over, which is tied into striving for excellence: the notion that you should love your job and if you don’t love it you should find something else. Sure, to a point, but who the fuck wants to clean toilets?

gyac!

what im saying isnt that mediocre isnt i think this awful thing, right

tho admittedly i might look up a dictionary definition, just to support this effort

This is kind of tangential, but "Perfect Days" by Wim Wenders is a joyous film about a man in Japan who aspires to nothing more than being a public toilet cleaner. It is worth watching

i think the reading of "mediocre" to mean nothing worse than "ordinary" is where I'd like to take a stand in defence of it.

i believe that it only took on a very negative meaning in popular culture after mad max fury road and that we should return to the halcyon days of "mediocrity is a solid target in most endeavours" of 2014

When I had a desk job as a tech writer I never read my job description after getting hired. It wasn't relevant. My rule of thumb was that I would be the darling of my supervisor, if my work never at any time caused a problem requiring their intervention to solve. That approach worked out fine for about a decade before I quit.

i think the reading of "mediocre" to mean nothing worse than "ordinary" is where I'd like to take a stand in defence of it.

sure but then you'd use the word "ordinary". i think someone started a thread once, "boring but good things". i have a strong distaste for 'mediocre' because it weaponizes "ordinary" and in so doing both misses how ordinary is beautiful and how "excellence" always strikes when we aren't thinking about our own performance.

this thread and its title is so very old-ilx to me. a bullshit depresso judging-everyone-and-myself-way-too-harshly constantly-souring-ego cultural-male-who-just-turned-30 kinda thing.

the older i get the more i honestly believe that we get to experience excellence through the excellence of others. the particular person we can locate its origins in is irrelevant.

How does “basic” fit in here

not being ironic— we are all ordinary and special at the same time.

especially when economic circumstances make it increasingly difficult for anyone without some kind of independent source of wealth to devote themselves to the pursuit of "excellence," in, say, sport or the arts or anything else vaguely ancient grecian i'm missing.

for me, it is enough to have something outside of "work i do for others in order to survive" - a kind of work/play practice and discipline - that allows me space to explore and dream. this for me is physical culture and movement. do i achieve excellence there? i like to think that i do in my way. although when i see the gifts and discipline of others through their instagram accounts i sometimes sigh. but it's always worth noticing, when you compare yourself to others, just how much in resources they may have in dedicating themselves to something that you don't. and ultimately, i think "excellence" starts to disappear or at least flow more organically as the thing that you're doing becomes more and more about mindfulness.

I do believe there are incredible geniuses in this world who accomplish greatness. When I was younger I used to think there was a slim but non-zero chance that I might be one of them. For me part of growing older has been realizing that I am not at that level. In fact in many if not most areas of life I am solidly mediocre.

In a way it can be freeing to realize that you are not a world-beating genius. If everyone was, then those few would not give us the same sense of awe. I’m glad I get to experience that awe from time to time.

Also I do things that make me happy, not because I think I can be world class at them. I will never be a great pianist but I like to practice anyway. As a wise person once said, “Comparisons are odious.”

just enjoy things it’s okay we all die

I rarely want to share my score on the MapTap thread when it's below 900, I imagine others feel the same. I think the world is probably a lot like the MapTap thread, supercharged now by algorithmic powers

But also respect to those who share their not-so-great scores

I think there are two different types of mediocrity at play here:

1. Mediocrity in terms of public acclaim or external validation.
2. Mediocrity in terms of not being significantly great at anything.

rock star, amazing writer, successful businessman, or even a pillar in the community

it's not just the questionableness of whether these are things to feel pain about not achieving, it's the forgetting that the experience of being one of these things is probably wildly different to the daydream we might have of being one of those things

It’s a hard cycle to break out of.

“If I reach the top of this hill, I’ll be happy!”

Crests hill, sees the next hill, now depressed.

Cow art otm

i am a rock star, amazing writing, and a pillar of my community, just in an extremely small and localized way, and this is all i want really. anyone can do this btw

i didnt read it as overall mediocrity either i think its a more interesting question aspect by aspect anyway i think comparing against anything other than your own best efforts tends to be a dud unless there's a reason to do so in particular (there usually is but it's worth asking each time maybe)

For me, maybe for others, as the years began to pile up my ambitions evolved from hazily imagined “greatness” (however measured) to more concrete ideas of happiness. Part of being happy is feeling like I do the things that I do well — professionally and domestically both — but whether me doing them well achieves anything objectively notable isn’t really the point. I’ve won nice awards, people have said nice things to and about me, and also outside my small pools nobody knows or cares about me. I remain surprised and grateful that anyone notices at all, much less pays me to do things I care about.

I think I came to terms with being regular in high school — my yearbook goal was to “find something I’m good at and spend my life doing it.”
Excellence requires competition and I’m so averse to competition that I reject the whole thing.

It has never occurred to me thar I would be great. I’m satisfied being good.

Map otm (sorry for addressing you personally) in the “this sounds like old-ilx men turning 30” thing.

lol speaking of which I see I posted somewhat similar thoughts when this thread started and I had just turned 40.

I’m fine with the competition aspect tbh. The problem is who is judging the competition and what are the criteria, as well as who/what I am competing against.

One of the aspects of self-loathing I deal with is creating (or accepting) competitions that I invariably lose.

And to quote the Wire (a thing I excel at, tbh I am a viking at, tbrr w/u): You Cannot Lose if you do not play.

Excellence requires competition and I’m so averse to competition that I reject the whole thing.

i like to do a lot of things and i think with that ive had to find a way to tamp down "must be good at to enjoy/persist" which may or may not be a trait shared across the entire population or more strongly present in given subsets, but certainly is something that was present from a very young age for me in particular if others were present

which is where my interest in the question lies *across* different activities or areas as opposed to thinking of myself or anyone else as mediocre, which tbh is not just a repugnant idea to me but also....seems ridiculous as a concept. how can anything as complex as a person or a leaf or etc be mediocre, that to me would be a fault in the lens applied

its possible that having to get through the first year of playing golf was a game changer here for me, ive not been naturally blessed with sticktuition but i do remember really wanting to get good enough to even enjoy a round and knowing that it would take a prolonged unpleasant and frustrating slog to get there- obv a personal example, which im confident won't be something people will latch on to in any strange way

i've thought about this a lot lately in the context of how mobile phones suck up every second that might once have been spent getting better at something. when i was a teenager they didn't exist, right, so in order to amuse myself i learned how to play guitar. i had dreams of being a rock god, playing like hendrix etc - and pretty quickly i bumped up against the reality that to do that i would need to actually TRY really really hard, make it my life. same with skateboarding. it was fun, and i skated with my friends, but i quickly hit a wall where i wasn't going to get significantly better unless i dropped everything else. and i didn't want to drop everything else! so i have a number of things in my life that i got like, okay at.

anyway, my point is that it feels like this vast middle ground of "being okay" at something hardly exists anymore. you have people with an involuntary, in-built obsession with a certain thing - piano playing, electronic circuits, whatever - and they become extraordinary at it. there are tiktoks of these people just absolutely killing the game. but unless you are blessed/cursed with this level of obsession, phones just eat up all the time you might have spent becoming competent enough at piano to play along with some friends and make some music. you don't have this broad level of competence out there in the world so that a group of friends can just jam together or whatever. it's like, all or nothing. the hollowing out of the middle class!

it's the same with kids and reading. these days it's like you're either A Reader and you get through multi-volume fantasy series on the reg, or you just play Clash of Clans on your phone, nothing inbetween like just picking up a book every once in awhile for fun

This body that you’re fussing over,

this body that you’re dolling up,

this body that you’re wearing to the party,

this body will end as ash.

im 45 and this is deep

A nice jpg of a sunset and a pleasant font would make it even more profound.

My frustration nowadays comes not with knowing I will never be famous, but with knowing that I will never do the things I want to do as well as I want to do them. In my case that's sewing, knitting, writing fiction. And sometimes my limitations and the gap between my vision of the finished product and the actual finished product drives me mad and I can't do anything because what's the point? And other times I just do them anyway because I just like doing them.

Tracer Hand otmfm

Yeah, very much. I guess this is why being in a band with your friends is good, for the same reason that being in a book club is good, or being in a local football league, or whatever. It gets you doing the thing because other people are expecting you and even depending on you, and you might get better into the bargain.

also being in a band with your friends is sooo fun. you learn a language with them that doesn't involve speaking!

i suppose i don't associate excellence with competition bc i am also allergic to competition (just inspires in me bad jealous thoughts that i'd rather not have) and yet i pursue excellence as much as i can in everything i do because... idk, it's just fun to learn, it's humbling, it can be excruciating, but you learn something about yourself on the other side of it (and if you're doing it with other people, you learn something about them too), and that's what i'm in it for

ftr i don't believe in natural talent. not that i haven't observed it, or have some of my own, but it'd be worthless if i didn't devote time and attention to the craft of it. i sort of believe that anybody can be good at anything. i've been trying to draw more, i thought i just totally sucked at it for a number of reasons, and wouldn't you know it, i'm getting better?

This quote from Albert Brooks always comes to mind:

I'm in show business. I'm fortunate to have that job, but quite frankly, if I'd studied harder or been graded more fairly, I would have been a scientist or a doctor of some kind.

this thread and its title is so very old-ilx to me. a bullshit depresso judging-everyone-and-myself-way-too-harshly constantly-souring-ego cultural-male-who-just-turned-30 kinda thing.

the older i get the more i honestly believe that we get to experience excellence through the excellence of others. the particular person we can locate its origins in is irrelevant.

Thanks, bud. otm once again and I appreciate you. And LL for noting a distaste for competition, which is fine if that's your thing (can be healthy, I guess) but I also feel an antipathy for it. It entails value judgements and ranking, and I'm not interested in that world.

xp to Tracer: Years ago I was talking to a guy who was good at skateboarding as a kid, and I said, "Yeah I guess I just never got that good at skateboarding" and he said "Well, you didn't have a horrible family situation and no other way to escape it."

im 45 and this is deep

― miserable pessi reign (imago), Monday, 29 June 2026 bookmarkflaglink

A nice jpg of a sunset and a pleasant font would make it even more profound.

― LocalGarda, Monday, 29 June 2026 bookmarkflaglink

Mock the eternal teachings today.

You will remember them when you need it the most.

Different ‘eternal teachings’ are available, according to taste. For example,

“O Nobly Born, O you of glorious origins, remember your radiant true nature, the essence of mind. Trust it. Return to it. It is home.”

No mediocrity there !

Those who reside in their true nature...they are the ones that know!

Live, laugh, love.

I aspire to competence these days. I think that was always the case, but when I was younger I would think that maybe there was a chance for greatness? But it's good to not let mediocrity stop you from doing things, because then you have interesting experiences (and get better), even if you pick up some regrets along the way.

The social media thing is real, such a double-edged sword because you can pick up a lot of information and it's raised the skill floor for a lot of areas, but also seeing only the most skilled individuals showing off from all over the world can be hugely discouraging.

tracer otm

i think some of these questions hit people very differently, either right out of the gate or whatever the initial discussion frames it as. its interesting to see that, sometimes

I aspire to enjoyment.

My ambition has always just been to chat shit with my friends at the pub*; as long as my friends didn't find my conversation mediocre, not I theirs, I didn't particularly care if it was mediocre in some larger sense.

* well, cafe really, I was in Europe after all

good conversation with friends is definitely some kind of pinnacle imo.

I’ve been allergic to competition ever since getting picked last in dodgeball, repeatedly. I’m also an only child which probably had something to do with it.

I like the act of creating, and making something that I like that has never existed before. I don’t know if my art is good, that’s for other people to figure out. It does what I want it to do.

Different ‘eternal teachings’ are available, according to taste. For example,

“O Nobly Born, O you of glorious origins, remember your radiant true nature, the essence of mind. Trust it. Return to it. It is home.”

Oh very young,
What will you leave us this time?
You’re only dancing on this Earth for a short while
And though your dreams may toss and turn you now
They will vanish away like your daddy’s best jeans
Denim Blue fading up to the sky
And though you want them to last forever
You know they never will – you know they never will
And the patches make the goodbye harder still

I appreciate the thoughts y'all have shared here. This is an aspect of life I've always struggled with. I did not have so acute a case of Gifted Kid Syndrome as some folks, but it was there anyway. Everyone telling me how smart I was instilled in me the notion that I was meant to do something Important, or at least distinctive, with my life. But I never figured out what that was supposed to be. I've maintained a lot of different interests in my life, but no obsession, no all-consuming vocation ever presented itself. As I age, my lack of "accomplishment" haunts me more and I don't know how to exorcise it.

I don't know how much of that is just who I am, and how much of it is a lack of faith in myself that I need to get over. I don't even have huge ambitions. I'd be happy just to put out an album that a few dozen people think is pretty alright, but even *that* feels outside my reach. I'd even be happy just to inspire other people to make the work that fulfills *them*, and I do try to support my friends' creativity whenever I can, and I'm genuinely proud of them when they make dope shit. Sometimes that feels like it's enough.

i am a rock star, amazing writing, and a pillar of my community, just in an extremely small and localized way, and this is all i want really. anyone can do this btw

― ivy., Sunday, June 28, 2026 1:10 PM

Seconding this.

I've accepted I'll be ash eventually, but, I gotta admit, I still wanna be remembered.

never thought i'd say this but xyzzz is otm in this thread.

so it's monday. i had to come into the office today. it is absolutely beautiful outside. we had a strong cold front over the weekend and a final blast of rain last night. the air is unbelievable. i can't remember the last time it's been this clear in the city. just being outside, breathing it, looking at the crystal clear light hitting the mountain is... absolutely delicious.

anyway. i'm in my cubicle now. thankfully i have a big window. but this job is super meaningless. i resent having to devote so much time to something so trivial - that not even supervisors really care about since there isn't really profit motive involved, it's a government job. 95% bullshit. miserable manager. and yeah. every week i'm in it is a challenge. a slog. it gets me down.

but there's a little room downstairs. it used to be a dark room, because our agency used to have a microfilming service which has been retired. the very nice program manager downstairs has turned it into a little break room with lamp lighting. and i can do yoga in there. i lock the door, put on a playlist, breathe and move. i try to come into a fullness, release some layers between me and raw being. i have a feeling, when i'm done, of having accomplished everything. i released myself and let being take over. i just did all that, so that's where i'm at right now.

so with "mediocrity" and "excellence"... these kinds of metrics are very.. "i'm tired of earth. these people. i am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives." except with true being and light i feel like it's more like the human playing field becomes a game and these sort of silly utterances are frivolous markings on a ferris wheel of human ups and downs. there's a lightness to the human game, a humor in playing it, maybe a fun time in experiencing a certain amount of intensity while playing it. and if someone calls you "excellent" or "mediocre" you can marvel at their kindness or their sadness.

so yeah i think the answer to the question is everything that makes the question beside the point, a sort of silly utterance. whatever path gets you going - buddhism, taoism and tai chi, gnostic mysticism - moving in a direction away from illusion, from mistaking the forest for a few trees - is a good one. and yep people make fun because the second you try to start talking about this stuff it hits people in a sensitive place and they gotta dismiss it. you can really see the extent of that in the christ story. anywho mondays suck.

Even though I agree with where you're coming from, map, I also empathize deeply with the fun-makers. When you're down in the illusion, those who are above it can seem insufferably smug. but that's also part of being on the ferris wheel, right?

I still wanna be remembered.

You're a quality human being. Just spread yourself around a bit, just as you already do, and that part will come naturally.

Even though I agree with where you're coming from, map, I also empathize deeply with the fun-makers. When you're down in the illusion, those who are above it can seem insufferably smug. but that's also part of being on the ferris wheel, right?

― feed me with your chips (zchyrs), Monday, June 29, 2026 6:27 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah absolutely. i'm learning it's always better to meet people where they are instead of preach.

The arc of my adult life has been:
1) striving to make some kind of name for myself, based on academic/professional/creative excellence
2) falling short of those ambitions; realizing they were never really a path to a fulfilling life
3) coming to terms with that, figuring out what actually is fulfilling. This has been hard and confusing, since it’s meant letting go of stuff I’m not good at, but also embracing stuff I’m not good at either. I’ll never publish my dissertation or release a 12”, and there will always be grief to that, but also freedom to let go and, like, learn to fix bikes and slowly fumbls my way to basic competence.

I think I’m interpreting “mediocrity” as “being average, even 30th percentile, say. The “90% of people say they’re above-average drivers” phenomenon is, I think, a a real source of much insecurity.

i released myself and let being take over

This is the place I reach after a 70-minute walk's home stretch; the day doesn't get any better than that.

A traveler comes to a village where on the side of every barn, there is a bullseye with an arrow exactly in the middle.

The traveler stops a villager and says, "Clearly, someone in this town is an expert archer."

"No," the villager says, "That’s Simple Peter. He draws the targets after he shoots."

This is a hint as to how I approach music, creativity, life in general. Do what seems right, by one's own lights, in each moment. Then measure the results in terms of what one set out to do.

I only choose goals that are achievable by me (an authentic me, at my best or with a reasonable amount of stretch). Doing otherwise would be absurd. It's a trifle too late for me to decide to be an Olympic-level skier or whatever, even if that were what I wanted.

This is the place I reach after a 70-minute walk's home stretch; the day doesn't get any better than that.

― boners for bombs (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, June 29, 2026 12:37 PM (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

love it. a long walk is just the best.

Interesting failures can also be beautiful and enjoyable, and surprising (an often underrated virtue). Not everything has to be excellence and achievement.

I remember the Pet Shop Boys saying that in the world of music, there is an unspoken macho pressure to prove you can still cut it live. They had no interest in that, and their starting point for live shows was how to make their performances interesting, or even ridiculous - but entertaining.

I usually do a sixty minute walk in the morning, fast-paced for exercise but mind-clearing in general. Combined with walking to and from work I think I do something like 10 miles a day -- I recommend it if feasible which I realize is hardly generally the case...

just remember that if you're under 10,000 steps on your step-counting app the walk is mediocre. j/k.

With world cup going on, I wonder if any player has ever had the wherewithal to hire a drama coach to teach them to level up their flopping technique and if not, it's a little wild to think that the entire history of the sport has been dominated by mediocre thespians.

I did not have so acute a case of Gifted Kid Syndrome as some folks, but it was there anyway. Everyone telling me how smart I was instilled in me the notion that I was meant to do something Important, or at least distinctive, with my life. But I never figured out what that was supposed to be.

I felt this so hard and I remember having these actual thoughts in my...preteens? Early teens? I felt like I was expected to be a prodigy at something, because that would tell me what path my life should take. Since no specific prodigious qualities had emerged despite all the things that went into my learning/shaping, I was kind of at a loss.

Felt the same in college bc I thought if you were "smart," you would be having original revelations about your subject area. I haaardcore didn't understand that everyone is expected to just learn to do research and parrot back things from books. I believed if I wasn't Advancing The Field I was wasting my time and obviously wasn't good at it. I wonder if everything would have gone differently for me if I had realized that I wasn't bad at things, I was supposed to be both boring and bored.

yep. but in America it also gets tangled up with race. I, a mediocre replacement-level white man, have unearned privilege just because of the circumstance of my birth.

― The Immortal Bird of Avon (Boring, Maryland), Friday, June 26, 2026 3:44 PM (three days ago)

i mean it's not _personal_. i have unearned privilege too - white privilege, passing privilege, hell, i was born _smart_, i do think that's privilege. it's not something i worked for. it's just how i was born.

i don't even know what mediocre is supposed to mean. i don't think of myself as mediocre. do i think i'm _excellent_? not necessarily but i am pretty aware that i'm _exceptional_. i'm not like most people in some fairly significant ways. do i want to be like everybody else? i mean, i don't think that's really possible. what i do want is to be treated with the same level of, i don't know, privilege, that cishet white men enjoy.

i am a rock star, amazing writing, and a pillar of my community, just in an extremely small and localized way, and this is all i want really. anyone can do this btw

― ivy., Sunday, June 28, 2026 10:10 AM (yesterday)

we all kind of _have_ to be exceptional, is how i feel about it. not that who we are makes us exceptional. we just fucking have to be exceptional to do the things we do, even if those things are, like, basically normal. not in a... i mean i'm sure there are people here who are rock stars, amazing writers, whatever, and the thing that i find valuable is that everybody here is just, like, a _normal fucking person_. people sometimes, i mean, sometimes people don't get treated like ordinary human beings, and everyone here is an ordinary human being. we all deserve to be treated that way without all this bullshit about being a Role Model getting in the way.

i didn't expect to change people's lives as much as i have, for the better. and i certainly didn't expect to do it by just, i mean, doing what i wanted to do. not by striving for greatness. not by trying to save the world. just talking about weird nerd shit. i don't understand why or how that happens, and it does. i know that when i'm gone, a lot of people will remember me very well. i know people... people _now_, it's so weird, because part of the "gifted kid" thing was never feeling like i was good enough. and at the age i am starting to get some glimpse of just how much people actually think of me, god, it still consistently brings me to tears. i don't understand it, but i can't console myself any longer by telling myself that i'm mediocre or insignificant or that my life doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. i know that's not true.

i released myself and let being take over

I’ve come to appreciate that this may be as close as I get to figuring out what I’m here to do with life. The hard part is habitually doing the things that get me there (walks are reliable methods, but I rarely commit to more than an hour, so don’t get that 70 min sweet spot. See also: forgetting to meditate). Biking through a ravine might be as good as it gets: for a moment you can forget there’s a “me” that is mediocre or excellent or anything but the feeling of moving through nature

one of my greatest pleasures in life is, like... _existing_. i don't take it for granted. i spent a lot of time trying to distract myself, trying to just... not be _me_. the internet is actually really good for that, really good for distracting me, so i try to be careful about how i use it. the last seven years is the first time i've really been able to... i don't know, feel good in my body. me in my body, my body in the world, it's just, like, what else could i possibly need? and if that means that i don't accomplish "great things", fuck it. william faulkner was a miserable asshole. i'm pretty sure i'm happier than he was. who fucking cares that he was a better writer than i am?

you are definitely more prolific, Kate!

i wouldn't put my ilx posts in the same category as _light in august_ lol

my actual writing is, well... mediocre! and there's not much of it, cuz i tend to look at and say "well, this isn't really worth finishing".

I have a meaningful non-bullshit job but I don’t really like it. I would basically just like to be a machine they processes paper and forms and stuff all day. I don’t know if it’s depression or what but I am kind of naturally inclined to ruminate about things like the thread topic excessively, to an extent that’s harmful. I’ve turfed out on so many opportunities, just not persevering, quitting when the going gets tough, that bitter yeats thing lou reed quoted about the worst having all the passion and intensity… I don’t believe in anything very big. I have to keep myself busy doing things I like and also try to be a good friend and son and husband. that’s enough for me right now.

Biking through a ravine

this is no lie one of the best things. swooping up on the sides and zooming down. nature moving fast past you, the constant impact of it building up into a loud bell ringing.

it wasn't on a bike but i discovered this feeling about 15 years ago running single track trails in an open space type area next to my "job" at the time - my parents' real estate brokerage - which was a different, much worse job than the one i have now.

after a period of instability, i thought, why not move to where i can run and get that feeling every day, and so i did and it worked out for a while.

just the other day, i found a new trail fairly close to where i live with exactly the right pitch on the way down to get that bounding and flying feeling.

if this is all life is for me now - another run, and then another run - if i'm lucky enough to be able to run for another twenty years - i feel i will have lived a full life.

Husband and I were talking about this thread yesterday. I said, "Did you never want to be a pop star? Or a film star? Or take a bow in front of a rapturous audience?" He said, "No, never, not really." I can't imagine that. I always assumed everyone wanted that, on some deep level. But maybe they don't. It occurred to me that this is one of the many reasons I enjoy the culture of drag and ballroom, because here's a whole section of society that saw that they were not going to have those things, but they yearned for them, so they made their own versions with their own rules. They bought their own trophies, learned to lip sync, did whatever, in order to get that feeling even if only occasionally. Sort of the Simple Peter thing? If we can't win your awards, we'll make our own awards and win those.

I mean, that's not "mediocrity", that's exclusion, but it's still part of the chat we're having here, I think.

i dont think there's an accepted meaning for the purposes of the thread/revive tbf

i have come to terms with the finitude of my impact on this world, and perhaps even my compass while alive, but that doesn't stop me from flinging shit at the wall

ftr i think one major problem is that communities ARE too small and silo'd now - yes, you can be a pillar of a small community etc etc but you should also aspire for that community to break containment. sure embrace your own personal 'mediocrity' but be ambitious as hell for whatever you're a part of. i feel like that ambition is diluted nowadays and it saddens me. obviously i am not talking about ILX here, hope died long ago here (and in fact, 'one's own mediocrity' is perhaps even the ILX house register, keeps me grounded tbf)

Get a bag of ashees and start hugging it mate

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dolling up rn ty

trishyb, otm about the community-building and -reinforcing aspect of "we'll make our own awards and win those." In that context it is not solipsistic: building one another up is the achievement. Cooperation disguised as competition. The opposite of the culture-war sneer at participation trophies.

I think a lot about this. My son plays Special Olympics basketball and it is wholesome as fuck. Everyone gets the ball. Everyone gets to shoot until they make it. Everyone cheers.

I understand the wanting of success (by the lights of others) in a field with something like standards... Like wanting to be a published writer (in the mid-20th-century New Yorkerish sense). Wanting to be a signed band with a record contract.

But then you look at who those gatekeepers were/are, and how they decided whom to exalt and whom to exclude. You look at the great things those systems ignored, and the terrible things they made popular...

Dethroning them was/is necessary. But doing that also leaves a void for the legitimacy and validation they used to confer.

The good news is that everyone can make a record or write a blog. The bad news is that everyone can make a record or write a blog.

ftr i think one major problem is that communities ARE too small and silo'd now - yes, you can be a pillar of a small community etc etc but you should also aspire for that community to break containment.

Mobilising the local allotment groups to conquer fields in other boroughs.

obviously i am not talking about ILX here, hope died long ago here (and in fact, 'one's own mediocrity' is perhaps even the ILX house register, keeps me grounded tbf)

― miserable pessi reign (imago), Tuesday, June 30, 2026 1:25 AM (six hours ago)

what are you talking about, have you ever heard of cross-pollination

i take stuff i learn here and apply it other places, "break containment", like we're supposed to invade some other forum? that's silly.

I think a lot about this. My son plays Special Olympics basketball and it is wholesome as fuck. Everyone gets the ball. Everyone gets to shoot until they make it. Everyone cheers.

― Scott Baiowulf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, June 30, 2026 3:00 AM (five hours ago)

this is the thing, when i was young people used to make fun of participation trophies and it's absolutely exactly backwards. it shocks me how seldom people just, like, say nice things to each other. so easy to take it for granted. i compliment other people all the time and so i'm surrounded by people who compliment me fairly frequently. i mean ilx has _changed_ over the past 15 years, it is more kind, more supportive, more _humane_.

control-f "nepotism" and not finding any results in the thread. sometimes an apprehension of "mediocrity" is just a momentary (reasonably fatalistic) acknowledgement of how stacked the deck is, especially in the out-of-control junior high school that is the USA

If you're in the arts, surely mediocrity is an internal concern, not external - we all know the trivia of the successful artists now forgotten, the obscure artists now beloved.

Not that going by your own instincts on this matter is any less problematic, basically all the best artists I've met are horribly insecure and suspect mediocrity even when they're acclaimed.

I do want to push back on the idea that insecurity and self-loathing are pre-requisites to being unsatisfied with one's creative output. You could just have really, really good taste!

How many of those best artists in your experience keep going versus give up?

I dunno that I would conflate insecurity and self loathing!

To answer your question, it's pretty 50/50.

For the people who keep going, do you sense there's anything qualitatively different about them or their circumstances?

Reminds me of Merleau-Ponty's essay "Cézanne's Doubt," about Cézanne's insecurities and frustrations with (what he perceived as) the limits of his talent. It ends with this, which I love:

But he himself was never at the center of himself: nine days out of ten all he saw around him was the wretchedness of his empirical life and of his unsuccessful attempts, the leftovers of an unknown party. Yet it was in the world that he had to realize his freedom, with colors upon a canvas. It was on the approval of others that he had to wait for the proof of his worth. That is the reason he questioned the picture emerging beneath his hand, why he hung on the glances other people directed toward his canvas. That is the reason he never finished working. We never get away from our life. We never see our ideas of our freedom face to face.

well, ok, if you’re dissatisfied with your art bc your taste is so good, who’s to say that if you don’t consistently work on your craft that you won’t experience your own breakthrough, something that impresses and surprises you but is also unmistakeable as your voice? all artists struggle with assessing the value of their own work, what separates you from them? public approval (horseshit metric)? a lot of conceptions about this boil down to “some people are special and some people aren’t” and a core philosophy of mine is that that’s bullshit

flaubert was tortured over how mediocre he found his own work. flaubert

For the people who keep going, do you sense there's anything qualitatively different about them or their circumstances?

Nothing springs to mind, but I'm intrigued - were you suspecting some factor in particular?

'some people are special and some people aren’t”

Did you mean "some art is special"? Or are you collapsing people and art? Some art, in our estimations, is more special than others; that's you and I and others in this thread are music writers. Maybe I misunderstood you.

Maybe I don't like "special." Like "unique."

Edith Wharton is a more interesting writer than Sinclair Lewis. More "special"? idk

some people get to lead certain kinds of lives and other people don’t. i understand the degree this is true due to the circumstances of birth and class. but otherwise i think anyone can get good at anything, mediocrity isn’t something you’re condemned to. idk i’m repeating myself on this thread and not responding to people’s complete posts

Oh! I see what you mean now. I agree.

I will never be good at drawing and heterosexuality tho.

no one is good at heterosexuality, least of all heterosexuals

Alas.

we have shit taste, it's true!

re: dissatisfied artists who keep going, I wonder if it's something you can transfer to the artists who don't. whatever factor it is (supportive scene, drinking ginger shots, etc...)

no one is good at heterosexuality, least of all heterosexuals

― ivy., Tuesday, June 30, 2026 2:04 PM (one hour ago)

god i wish i was a straight guy, i feel like i could be SO GOOD at that shit

i mean that's, uh, that's not what the record shows, but i still _feel_ like i could do it really well

no, i don't think i could land a plane or score with serena williams

honestly, i tried _really fucking hard_ to be an ordinary cishet man

it didn't take

ordinary cishet guys get put down a lot but they are genuinely doing something i _couldn't_. i'm genuinely a little in awe of, like, ordinary dudes. like, how do you _do_ that? that's genuinely so cool! i mean i know it probably comes naturally to y'all, just like being a girl comes naturally to me, but that doesn't make it any less cool!

public success or lack thereof is measuring something different than mediocrity vs virtuosity

Some people are artists because that is what is in them; they have a drive to create and that happens to be funneled into making art. Perhaps under different circumstances that drive would have found a different path. Some people just want to make things.

Other people are told that they’re good at art so they go to art school or college because they don’t know what else to do. They will make art if it’s an assignment and they can succeed at this but after graduation they’re done. Nobody is forcing them to make art and they don’t have that drive so whatever talent they had withers away.

It’s a hard, weird, activity, devoting oneself to something that will not make money, will probably get little recognition, and is often a struggle to make. A person has to have a fire in them to do that, or maybe they are a masochist. Some of my pieces take years to finish and it feels like trying to solve a math problem in a dream in which there is no logic, formula, or numbers. I don’t know why I do it, it’s just what I do.

I don’t know if anyone can be good at anything. Anyone can definitely improve with practice, but I think everyone has a ceiling. We vary so much cognitively, some brains are more geared for certain activities or struggle with others. I have some degree of aphantasia. I am not going to be an architect or excel at something that requires having a clear vision of what a client is trying to get across to me.

I do think that anyone who wants to be an artist can be an artist because there’s no barrier except self-doubt.

The Art Life, a documentary about David Lynch as an artist, is excellent.

It’s a hard, weird, activity, devoting oneself to something that will not make money, will probably get little recognition, and is often a struggle to make. A person has to have a fire in them to do that, or maybe they are a masochist.

why not both

idk i'm stupid

i read a writer giving advice on writing and he (i'm pretty sure it was a he) said "don't become a writer if you can possibly avoid it"

i seem to have overestimated my ability to avoid writing

i should stuck with cat poetry. if one is cursed with an insatiable urge to create, well, that causes a certain amount of tumult in one's life. giving one's muse over cat poetry seems one of the less tumultuous paths. damn, if i only wasn't allergic to cats!

The Art Life, a documentary about David Lynch as an artist, is excellent.

― Cow_Art, Tuesday, June 30, 2026 6:40 PM (yesterday)

there's that name again lol. well, there are worse shadows to live under!

i spent 2 1/2 hours writing a 5,000 word conversation with myself this morning

it was the only way i could drag myself out of bed

i wish there was a drug that would miraculously give me the power to express myself succinctly

Altogether, the social niche of the Christian congregations of the earlier part of the fourth century seems to have consisted largely of moderately well-to-do townsfolk. They did not think of themselves as rich. But they were by no means paupers. Indeed, their cheery comfort shocked the bishop of Barcelona; around 380, he tried to preach to his congregation on the need for penance and self-abasement in the Lenten season. As they told their bishop: "It is good that we are middling persons [mediocres]. It is not for us to live in houses sheathed with marble, to be weighed down with gold, in flowing silks and bright scarlet. But all the same we have our own little places in gardens and by the sea-side. We have good quality wine, neat little banquets and all that goes with a sprightly old age."

from peter brown through the eye of a needle: wealth, the fall of rome, and the making of christianity in the west, 350-550 ad (2012)

Love that for the cheery townsfolk.

Came across this, by Frank O'Hara.

"As Planned"

After the first glass of vodka
you can accept just about anything
of life even your own mysteriousness
you think it is nice that a box
of matches is purple and brown and is called
La Petite and comes from Sweden
for they are words that you know and that
is all you know words not their feelings
or what they mean and you write because
you know them not because you understand them
because you don't you are stupid and lazy
and will never be great but you do
what you know because what else is there?

my only objection is that one oughtn't have one's first glass of vodka before breakfast