Why does American porn suck?

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I don't see why people would get turned on watching it. I mean, the fakeness of the girls' performance is unbearable. If I have to mention names: Stoya, Jenna Haze, Sasha Grey, etc. All those big names. They moan and talk dirty but clearly don't enjoy the sex and performers enjoying sex is the main factor of a good porn, at least for me. And yet their videos top the best seller chart. What is wrong with people? There's some good natural stars though like Belladonna but they're few and far between.

The opposite happens in Europe and Brazil and maybe Thailand. Most of the time you can see the lust in their eyes and movement. Even when they clearly act, they act it good.

So what's happening here? Do American people simply love that kind of over-the-top and unreal porn so directors are just giving people what they want? Do European/Latin/Asian girls enjoy sex more than American girls so they can act natural even in front of cameras?

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:16 (fourteen years ago)

maybe thailand? just a hunch?

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:17 (fourteen years ago)

americans don't have time for lust! and "enjoyment". we've got things to do!

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:18 (fourteen years ago)

like post to ilx

markers, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:19 (fourteen years ago)

ilx, porn, ilx, porn, ilx, porn, ilx, work, ilx, work, cheeseburger, work, ilx, porn, ilx, porn, bed

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:20 (fourteen years ago)

remain unconvinced of foreign porn being actually better than american porn tbrr. this requires more than one man's research.

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:21 (fourteen years ago)

@scott: actually not a hunch but it's just too hit-or-miss there. sometimes it's good, sometimes it's lazy.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:23 (fourteen years ago)

Don't know what Asian porn you've been watching - in all the Japanese porn I've ever seen, the girls all look to be either stoically enduring it all, or on the verge of tears, and they make noises like chipmunks being stabbed with sharpened pencils. It's very disturbing and not at all hot.

that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:30 (fourteen years ago)

hasn't american porn always been pretty, um, "american". you know, sorta gross, flashy, obsessed with gigantism, devoid of actual honest human emotion, etc. the so-called "golden age" of american porn is pretty gnarly too.

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:30 (fourteen years ago)

i could easily disprove this but then i'd be The Guy Who Knows Too Much About Porn

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:31 (fourteen years ago)

yeahhhh ^^^^

Nhex, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:35 (fourteen years ago)

Since I actually worked in the porn business for five years, I have no worries on that score. So Scott otm.

that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:36 (fourteen years ago)

scott otm except international porn is all exactly like that too

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:37 (fourteen years ago)

Princess Tamtam, I'm sure the forward-thinking people of ilx would appreciate an informed female perspective on porn.

jodeci & oracle (kkvgz), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:37 (fourteen years ago)

oh, yeah, i'm definitely three posts and out on this thread. i will read the future car-crash that this thread becomes though.

x-post way up there

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:38 (fourteen years ago)

well, you know, it has car-crash potential.

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:38 (fourteen years ago)

i could easily disprove this but then i'd be The Guy Who Knows Too Much About Porn

― Princess TamTam, Monday, January 3, 2011 8:31 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol this reminds me of the time I overheard a guy who (slightly drunk) was bragging about how much porn he had. like "dude, I've got this 200GB external hard drive...and I've already used 150 GBs" etc. etc.

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:38 (fourteen years ago)

i would kind of like a thread about thing unperson learned in the porn business

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:40 (fourteen years ago)

yeah u seem overly cynical, tell us abt yr journey

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:40 (fourteen years ago)

@unperson: i said thailand. i hate japanese stuff. the girls look as if they had been raped in their childhood and now traumatic of sex.

@princess: please share your knowledge. also, why are you saying int'l porn are like that too? pick a random title from private and red light district and then compare, i'm sure you can see the differences.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)

"i would kind of like a thread about thing unperson learned in the porn business"

dennis the menace gets his slingshot ready...

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:44 (fourteen years ago)

private does expensive features, red light does gonzo - you should be comparing private with vivid et al - false premise imo

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 00:46 (fourteen years ago)

it's not about the production, it's simply about how the stars act.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:50 (fourteen years ago)

Sasha Grey is awesome fuiud

the bear in the bumper car (rip van wanko), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:56 (fourteen years ago)

oh this is gonna be a good thread i can tell.

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 00:57 (fourteen years ago)

Can someone unban Dom Passantino just for this thread? Thanks.

Zing When You're Winning (King Boy Pato), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:02 (fourteen years ago)

otm

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:03 (fourteen years ago)

lol

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:04 (fourteen years ago)

I left the business in 2005, and can't really compare my experiences against the way things are now - it would be like talking to a record label dude from the '80s about whether a band should still have a MySpace page or just go Twitter/Facebook/Bandcamp. Things change fast in pornworld. Plus, I was on the print side, not video, and that's a whole other thing - for example, we had strict rules about what we could and couldn't show because certain images would cause the magazine to be rejected for Canadian or European distribution. Not 'cause Euro or Canadian porn wasn't every bit as dirty as what we were doing, but because they didn't want the competition. They wanted their homegrown product to be hotter than imports.

that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:04 (fourteen years ago)

Sasha Grey kind of a butterface imo.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:09 (fourteen years ago)

also very phony and ott

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:09 (fourteen years ago)

^^^ keep the thread going in this direction guys

Hans Peter Cutlassin' (crüt), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:09 (fourteen years ago)

ian and I discussed this over wings and beers, tie vote on merits of the product

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:11 (fourteen years ago)

it's not about the production, it's simply about how the stars act.

― dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Sunday, January 2, 2011 7:50 PM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark

well that's 100% about the individual performers. you can find a range from expressive to icy in any region. eastern euro women are known for being beautiful-yet-cold, brazillian porn is pretty rapey and the performers often look uncomfortable to me, but you can find enthusiastic performers in both worlds. idk what you're talking about re: thai porn though because im pretty sure most of those women are bored streetwalkers. also re: "Stoya, Jenna Haze, Sasha Grey, etc. All those big names. They moan and talk dirty but clearly don't enjoy the sex and performers enjoying sex is the main factor of a good porn, at least for me." <- can assure you that jenna haze loves the sex. you may not find her to be a compelling performer but she loves her job.

sasha grey talks way too much and i cant watch her because of it - maybe that's what you're talking about, american porn stars are too demonstrative for you. i'd say they're just more ~liberated~

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:13 (fourteen years ago)

there is canadian porn!?

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:13 (fourteen years ago)

i thought that was an old wives tale, tbh

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:14 (fourteen years ago)

ive seen canadian porn and it turned my stomach tbh

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:14 (fourteen years ago)

http://tweaktoday.com/images/submissions/1343/large_bear-in-bikini.jpg

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:15 (fourteen years ago)

lol this reminds me of the time I overheard a guy who (slightly drunk) was bragging about how much porn he had. like "dude, I've got this 200GB external hard drive...and I've already used 150 GBs" etc. etc.

Basically every sound guy at the club I've ever played.

Pleasant Plains, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:15 (fourteen years ago)

xpost lol

ENBB, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:16 (fourteen years ago)

hahaaaaa scott

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:16 (fourteen years ago)

a moose would be cool tbh

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:16 (fourteen years ago)

and, you know, HOT

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:16 (fourteen years ago)

The original post is ridiculous in so many ways - I can't even and yet it could yield potentially awesome thread so . . .

ENBB, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:18 (fourteen years ago)

The only porn on average less o_O than American is maybe Australian?

the bear in the bumper car (rip van wanko), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:19 (fourteen years ago)

never seen kiwi porn

the bear in the bumper car (rip van wanko), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:20 (fourteen years ago)

I'm not a fan of Sasha Grey at all, but it's more about her obnoxious lookit-me-I've-read-Nietzsche, I-know-Steven-Soderbergh schtick than her actual performance style.

that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:21 (fourteen years ago)

i get kinda disturbed sometimes when the actress is clearly overacting pleasure to cover up pain

aka the pope (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:21 (fourteen years ago)

how is french porn?

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:21 (fourteen years ago)

ah yes, interesting q.

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:22 (fourteen years ago)

Yeah, Grey's schtick is too contrived

ENBB, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:24 (fourteen years ago)

She has dead eyes and she seems more fake than the fake girls, like all her rarr I am queen of anal and all of this is so ironic dont U see. Even more annoying in Entourage too, and she was mostly clothed lol

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:26 (fourteen years ago)

sasha grey's venture into experimental music is imo a great marketing move--everyone knows the crossover between industrial power electronics weirdos and porn fanatics is lolhueg.

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:27 (fourteen years ago)

I'm not familiar with her work but does she really make ironic porn?

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:27 (fourteen years ago)

She thinks she does

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:28 (fourteen years ago)

she bony

balls, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:29 (fourteen years ago)

I just know her from Entourage and I have The Girlfriend Experience in my queue but it's Steven Soderbergh and my wife doesn't want to watch it, so will probably never get round to it.

Surprised nobody is doing like a porn thing a la streaming Netflix, tbh.

puff pastry hangman (admrl), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:29 (fourteen years ago)

how is french porn?

― not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:21 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

from what i've seen, awesome.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:37 (fourteen years ago)

Comes on between the evening news and "La Roue de la Fortune", if I'm not mistaken.

Pleasant Plains, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:39 (fourteen years ago)

Hahah

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:40 (fourteen years ago)

"comes on"

Hans Peter Cutlassin' (crüt), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:41 (fourteen years ago)

The best porn on average is probably American porn with foreign women.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:51 (fourteen years ago)

Hi. Gay porn exists. Bye.

Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:52 (fourteen years ago)

Surprised nobody is doing like a porn thing a la streaming Netflix, tbh.

― puff pastry hangman (admrl), Sunday, January 2, 2011 8:29 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

they are

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:52 (fourteen years ago)

not that you'd know, KJB!

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:52 (fourteen years ago)

@tam tam: I can't see why it is about individual performers when 80% of american porn that i've seen is that kind of ott fake stuff. whereas that percentage is lower in europe. at least that what i've seen. maybe someone could back me up.

dan138zig (Durrr Durrr Durrrrrr), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:54 (fourteen years ago)

aquarius picked Sasha Grey's band's album as one of their picks of the week a few weeks ago, I think. The description sounded great. I find her disturbing.

akm, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:55 (fourteen years ago)

gonzo porn tends to contain gonzo performances - try some american 'couples' porn where they kiss and stuff

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:56 (fourteen years ago)

Gonzo porn just makes me think of Muppets lol

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:57 (fourteen years ago)

omg are they really 'doing it' in american porn? irish catholic mind blown

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 01:58 (fourteen years ago)

"Hi. Gay porn exists. Bye."

and its like the smell of roses on a bright sunny summer morning. god bless it and keep it.

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:00 (fourteen years ago)

All visual pornography is incredibly boring, in my opinion. Yes, it is arousing but it's uninteresting because the directors are obsessed with gonzo shots. I prefer published erotica to most of this crap.

Rotating & Blunders (MintIce), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:02 (fourteen years ago)

porn is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends, and pornography is no friend of mine

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:03 (fourteen years ago)

Gonzo porn just makes me think of Muppets lol

― VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 01:57 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

straight giggles

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:06 (fourteen years ago)

Those poor chickens

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:10 (fourteen years ago)

lol

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:11 (fourteen years ago)

http://www.welcometofreshmanyear.com/b/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/fat-girls-and-fries.jpg

Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:11 (fourteen years ago)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=McGangbang

old man yells at cloud computing (am0n), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:14 (fourteen years ago)

your pussy smells like a mcgriddle

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:15 (fourteen years ago)

why not just eat the two sandwiches separately?

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:16 (fourteen years ago)

syrup-injected folds

old man yells at cloud computing (am0n), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:16 (fourteen years ago)

resulting paste

BIG HOOTY aka the Sapperticker (electricsound), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:16 (fourteen years ago)

Oh the humanity

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:17 (fourteen years ago)

oh dear God

ENBB, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:18 (fourteen years ago)

A kinky white slavery ring buys trouble for itself when they abduct the girlfriend of Rambone.

old man yells at cloud computing (am0n), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:19 (fourteen years ago)

This thread has lived up to it's potential

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:19 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br2a-m60tKk

old man yells at cloud computing (am0n), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:25 (fourteen years ago)

american porn sucks because they stopped caring about punning imo. everything these days is "30 rock a porn parody" or "the twilight zone a porn parody" when "30 rock" and "the twilight bone" would work so much better.

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:44 (fourteen years ago)

30 cock, you mean

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 02:45 (fourteen years ago)

hugely important point xp

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:45 (fourteen years ago)

lol i did mean that.

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 02:46 (fourteen years ago)

Not much of a consumer, but this Viv Thomas seems to have quality bedding and time allotted to affection. Guccione with a heart.

would like a calmer set (Eazy), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:00 (fourteen years ago)

Bedding as in high-thread-count linens and good use of natural and practical lighting.

would like a calmer set (Eazy), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:01 (fourteen years ago)

gonzo porn tends to contain gonzo performances - try some american 'couples' porn where they kiss and stuff

― Princess TamTam, Monday, January 3, 2011 1:56 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

i can't think of anything more disturbing than watching two people in a loving relationship have sex.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:35 (fourteen years ago)

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/28/armenian_genocide.jpg

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:37 (fourteen years ago)

It's OK, you can all relax, I'm here now

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:37 (fourteen years ago)

I thought we kept u behind glass in case of emergency

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:38 (fourteen years ago)

for a thread like this I mean

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:39 (fourteen years ago)

dude already has a porn name

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:44 (fourteen years ago)

in response to the original question, is it because america is, like, bad and capitalist and that?

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:44 (fourteen years ago)

sorry, meant "because amerikkka..."

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:45 (fourteen years ago)

basically the word 'pornography' is an abomination and it's finally getting phased out thank fuck

there's nothing wrong with videos of people having consensual sex (and consenting to be filmed and put out into the public domain) - to stigmatise it with a negative label such as 'pornography' is IMO repulsive - although I do use the term myself as a catch-all; it's possibly best to reclaim rather than abandon the word? 'erotica' still sounds mad poncy lol

anyway what this is all building up to is a cumshot into the tilted-back, ecstatically expectant face of a woman the idea that 'porn', especially the visual stuff, is increasingly gonna come from the people, for the people, across the free space that is the Internet. amateur stuff is hotter, better and usually much more aesthetically appealing (and yes this DOES affect how I get my rocks off, ty) than the organised stuff.

what's more, amateur porn doesn't (usually) have hetero pro porn's ridiculous discourse, intimated above, of the phallocentric and not simply male-dominant but male-only-fulfilling sequence, from the first suck of a cock to the final facial. even the lesbian shit usually feels like there's a loaded cock pointing at 'em. 'LICK HER PUSSY OR I FIRE', that sorta shit.

sex is beautiful, natural and free. the more we shrug off the last vestiges of damaging Victorian moralisation ('twas they indeed who applied the term 'pornography' to erotic literature) and take porn into our own hands, the better. which is why I really dig what was linked on the Fever Ray thread - I'll re-up it here (thanks Tuomas): http://www.dirtydiaries.se/ Watch the trailer and read the manifesto - both fucking hot :D

now back to you guys and your pornstar fanhood

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:48 (fourteen years ago)

yeah, but amateurs aren't as fit tho

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:49 (fourteen years ago)

most 'amateur' vids are private vids that were leaked out by vengeful exes aren't they

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:51 (fourteen years ago)

amateur stuff is hotter, better and usually much more aesthetically appealing (controversial edit) than the organised stuff.

totally down with this POV

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:51 (fourteen years ago)

yeah you realize most amateur stuff does not make it online consensually right?

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:56 (fourteen years ago)

what's more, amateur porn doesn't (usually) have hetero pro porn's ridiculous discourse, intimated above, of the phallocentric and not simply male-dominant but male-only-fulfilling sequence, from the first suck of a cock to the final facial. even the lesbian shit usually feels like there's a loaded cock pointing at 'em. 'LICK HER PUSSY OR I FIRE', that sorta shit.

also not sure abt this at all

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:57 (fourteen years ago)

louis consents to it and thats what matters

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:57 (fourteen years ago)

xxxp re 'most amateur stuff not public consensually', i'd have imagined that's what they'd a told you to make it even hotter for revenge fantasisers but i mean that's at a guess- most 'amateur' stuff is just pros pretending anyway from what i can tell?

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:58 (fourteen years ago)

really????

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 04:58 (fourteen years ago)

dayo srsly I doubt that, wd you go to the extent of putting your own coitally-thronging entirety online if you thought it shameful enough as to be sufficient vengeance upon one's ex?

I'm saying that with initiatives such as the one I linked, not to mention amateur stuff that's clearly mutually-approved, the people will reclaim something that is theirs, and without stigma too. Besides, better to have anonymous porn of you put online to the democracy of titillation than to have your GOVT NAME sullied by a simple Google search. BEEN THERE YO

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 04:58 (fourteen years ago)

i mean how in the world do you tell what has been mutually approved

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:00 (fourteen years ago)

What I'm saying is that it really shouldn't be a disaster if anonymous porn of you is online (although ideally it's there with your consent) - this requires a massive shift in mindset though and the SB button is ->

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:00 (fourteen years ago)

ok well that is diff

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:01 (fourteen years ago)

I like the pro-am genre where they pay couples to fuck on camera. You get better production values and people who actually like each other.

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:01 (fourteen years ago)

let's get into the issue of "why would u record yr sexytime"

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:02 (fourteen years ago)

Also, I respect the fact that for many, sex with a partner is a private act, and to put it online would be a betrayal of trust and a horrible act. In such cases, boo hiss. But sex in a casual scenario? Or by an exhibitionist couple? Ach, there are grey areas and this will need more thought, but it's worth thinking about. We should be more free with our bodies - sex is expression, and it's fun, and it's wonderful.

Why would you record your sexytime?!?! Maybe IT'S HOT?

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:02 (fourteen years ago)

amateur hoover porn is the future

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:03 (fourteen years ago)

better believe it

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:03 (fourteen years ago)

maybe you should enjoy the hotness and not dick around with yr camera for chrissakes

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:04 (fourteen years ago)

this gets into my whole thing abt ppl who enjoy recording the moment more than they enjoy the moment

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:05 (fourteen years ago)

this gets into my whole thing abt ppl who enjoy recording the moment more than they enjoy the moment

― call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:05 (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

twitter generation were always going to take it too far.

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:05 (fourteen years ago)

sex is expression

sex is physical sensation and several other things before it's that tbh.

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:06 (fourteen years ago)

i feel like amateur porn sucks cause of all the long static shots in bad lighting - pro porn sucks cause of all the close ups of guys taints

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:06 (fourteen years ago)

maybe IT'S HOT to look at in retrospect, and might enable further hotness when viewed in the future? maybe it's also quite a cool and simple means to express oneself artistically and aesthetically? what simpler and more watchable home movie could one make?

and yes, it's sensation, love, procreation etc - but all of this comes from the desire to connect, to express one's closeness to another in its most arousing form

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:07 (fourteen years ago)

fuck retrospect, just bang each other again.

god i hate our era sometimes.

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:08 (fourteen years ago)

disagree about yr ordering, lj, as stated

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)

this isn't about endless self-fascination, this is about being able to get off in more ways than we've ever been able - it's exciting

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)

i mean this is not news but you are nuts

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)

"I'm Lacey." "And I'm Steve." "And we approve this video."

would like a calmer set (Eazy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)

i'm not sure i've ever seen porn that comes from the desire to connect most. maybe slightly at best.

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:10 (fourteen years ago)

this isn't about endless self-fascination, this is about being able to get off in more ways than we've ever been able - it's exciting

― Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:09 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Most Disturbing Fetish Poll

irish xmas caek, get that marzipan inta ya (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:10 (fourteen years ago)

this shit is part of a wider progressivist discourse which will seriously curb sexual dysfunction, oppression and lack of self-confidence

what is sex if not a desire to get off by connection, and porn if not an expression of this

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:11 (fourteen years ago)

i think you're forgetting abt "intimacy"

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)

sex is a desire to get off by sex

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)

this shit is part of a wider progressivist discourse which will seriously curb sexual dysfunction, oppression and lack of self-confidence

u r insane, yet <3

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:12 (fourteen years ago)

[do not film my love]

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:13 (fourteen years ago)

man louis we never need to let you go to a vaguely left summer camp ever again

aka the pope (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:13 (fourteen years ago)

sex as porn is a way of getting off without connection, the act of looking doesnt connect you with anything

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:14 (fourteen years ago)

sex is beautiful, natural and free. the more we shrug off the last vestiges of damaging Victorian moralisation and—

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5309262214_a4b59c3401_o.gif

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:14 (fourteen years ago)

sensible post by veggrrl

call all destroyer, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:15 (fourteen years ago)

(curtsy) ty

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:16 (fourteen years ago)

What does American porn suck?

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:16 (fourteen years ago)

i sort of like the fact that sex is a bit dirty and wrong, and that actually convincing a woman that i'm worth sleeping with is hard work.

sort of hope lj's twitter generation open-free-love-revolution never comes to pass.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:17 (fourteen years ago)

don't think I really understand lj's argument at all

although it would be weird if there was some sort of 'organic' sexual movement that came along akin to the organic food movement where consensual loving sex between amateurs would be labeled 'organic' and put online

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:19 (fourteen years ago)

i mean, even in "the dispossessed", the anarchist moon people have sex in private.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:19 (fourteen years ago)

ugghhh... imagine how cringe-inducingly awful and smug that would be.

x-post

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:20 (fourteen years ago)

well u have sex in private while live tweeting

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:20 (fourteen years ago)

lj's screed reminds me of THE OPEN SOURCE BOOB PROJECT

http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1087686.html

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:21 (fourteen years ago)

Im all for amateur porn but I think the attraction with fakey-fake is everything is unattainable & thus sort of an aspirational fantasy. The low level amateur stuff leaves you watching ppl who could be your neighbors screwing in a room that looks like your bedroom.

But prevalence of reality based tv may blur the lines enough that ppl want to see more representative folks in their fantasies, I dunno.

Mine are all screwed up from peeking at Dad's stickmag stash (Mayfair, Penthouse,Gent, lol) when I was a kid so I dont know how much use my 2c is worth lol

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:21 (fourteen years ago)

oh god whiney that is going to destroy my night.

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:23 (fourteen years ago)

lj's screed reminds me of THE OPEN SOURCE BOOB PROJECT

http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1087686.html

― our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, January 3, 2011 5:21 AM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark

ha! a girl i worked with used to let her male friends feel her d-cup boobs all the time, i resisted thinking that it would score me points in the "potential boyfriend" stakes. see what i mean about hard work?

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:25 (fourteen years ago)

terrifying. Im no prude but jesus. "Can I feel your boobs?"
"FUGGOFF"

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:27 (fourteen years ago)

Here's a bag of sand. Get lost.

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:28 (fourteen years ago)

'did u know jim plunkett was my dad?'

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:29 (fourteen years ago)

http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/7721225/711176

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:29 (fourteen years ago)

"Can I keep the bag?'

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:29 (fourteen years ago)

i actually think too much free love and sexual openness would destroy civilisation. not for any moral reasons, but simply because nobody would do anything else but shag all day.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:29 (fourteen years ago)

mookie might have an in there...Ach NO

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:30 (fourteen years ago)

http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/7721225/711176

wonder if that guy lets people feel his boobs?

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:31 (fourteen years ago)

The low level amateur stuff leaves you watching ppl who could be your neighbors screwing in a room that looks like your bedroom.

Surely there's a voyeuristic thrill in this?

Watching porn, IDEALLY, is mainlining some hot-ass intimacy. My problem with pro porn is that is isn't intimate ENOUGH! Connection is intimacy - and Veg is right - when mainlined, it's not (often) your OWN connection, but this intimacy pulls a trigger.

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:31 (fourteen years ago)

Honestly I cant picture any women I know saying yes to "can I feel
ur boobs". Not without 7 bottles of tequila

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:32 (fourteen years ago)

how long do people watch porn

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:33 (fourteen years ago)

today I was walking through a creek and I saw a moose

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:34 (fourteen years ago)

sorry it was an elk

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:34 (fourteen years ago)

And ugh that guy looks exactly like a guy who would ask. Also like a magician.

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:35 (fourteen years ago)

how long do people watch porn

Anywhere between 2 minutes and a whole hour (for a really good educational video - this shit is the kind of pro porn I can rly get with - watched in sexy company)

but usually will spend abt 10-15 mins browsin' and jackin' when on my own

see u in 30 days :(

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:36 (fourteen years ago)

FREE LJ

markers, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:36 (fourteen years ago)

Long enough to do the job.

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:37 (fourteen years ago)

okay so 30 days at 10-15 minutes per day... (scribbles furiously)... better make that 30-45 minutes per day...

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:38 (fourteen years ago)

*furiously*

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:38 (fourteen years ago)

usually will spend abt 10-15 mins

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1350832/dyson-o.gif

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:38 (fourteen years ago)

oh u went there

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:39 (fourteen years ago)

3 frames for me

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:39 (fourteen years ago)

why am i reading this thread

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)

<3 u jag :)

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)

maybe you're drunk like the rest of us xp 2 joe

not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)

dying

markers, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:40 (fourteen years ago)

few years ago one of my friends told me some password for some shit and it was like "goKu74" or something
made me so ashamed about my entire life when I would type it

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:43 (fourteen years ago)

whiney ur pretty gd at +ve zings when u put ur mind 2 it tbh

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:43 (fourteen years ago)

http://www.kellyfamilycatering.com/man_bowing_-_thank_you.gif

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:46 (fourteen years ago)

o shit whiney won ilx

mookieproof, Monday, 3 January 2011 05:48 (fourteen years ago)

dude's absorbed the good karma from 'ppl who are not whiney' and then cycloned it back like it was a bagless hoovah <3

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:51 (fourteen years ago)

it was def meant to be in good spirits, glad u dig

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:55 (fourteen years ago)

dude if we're going full love-in which is possibly risky on this of all threads your ceaseless passion for music of most kinds and selfless desire to proselytise about 2000 albums per year or whatever it is has my firm approval, and your zinging game is mostly tight

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:58 (fourteen years ago)

discovery, confusion, acceptance all in one brief masterbatory clip

all i gotta do is akh nachivly (darraghmac), Monday, 3 January 2011 05:58 (fourteen years ago)

applauding, me

VegemiteGrrrl, Monday, 3 January 2011 06:02 (fourteen years ago)

lol at whiney

hahahaha

Z S, ~THE~ University of Missouri-Columbia, (Z S), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:04 (fourteen years ago)

i'm imagining the process of watching the vacuum video searching for a 2 second masturbatory loop

Z S, ~THE~ University of Missouri-Columbia, (Z S), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:05 (fourteen years ago)

I think amateur work, even with vacuum cleaners, still has a lot to offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-JWdN8VN0

The Fudderwacken: an exegesis (Sanpaku), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:21 (fourteen years ago)

gay porn made in other countries is SOOOOO MUCH WORSE than porn made in the US. except gay German porn. they know what they're doing.

a no-fault dick to suck. (the table is the table), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:23 (fourteen years ago)

I thought german porn was famous for being the only other national pornography willing to do scat porn

dayo, Monday, 3 January 2011 06:25 (fourteen years ago)

I heard the whole scat thing with germans is a myth/unfair stereotype.

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:27 (fourteen years ago)

the germans do everything. the russians do too, but there, whomever is in the porn has obviously trackmarks and looks sad.

a no-fault dick to suck. (the table is the table), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:28 (fourteen years ago)

oh man i'm taking this to the tmi thread.

a no-fault dick to suck. (the table is the table), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:28 (fourteen years ago)

I'm just happy they're lusting over melons rather than Alsace-Lorraine.

The Fudderwacken: an exegesis (Sanpaku), Monday, 3 January 2011 06:30 (fourteen years ago)

pretty good thread

gr8080, Monday, 3 January 2011 08:08 (fourteen years ago)

i sort of like the fact that sex is a bit dirty and wrong, and that actually convincing a woman that i'm worth sleeping with is hard work.

That attitude has done a lot of mental damage to a lot of people over the years.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Monday, 3 January 2011 11:48 (fourteen years ago)

Clearly the problem is less a lack of "real"-ness and more simply a matter of the American porn industry recruiting better actors. What's Meryl Streep up to these days?

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 January 2011 14:02 (fourteen years ago)

sure beats the British stuff.

piscesx, Monday, 3 January 2011 14:25 (fourteen years ago)

the "Wots All This Then?!" series

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 14:30 (fourteen years ago)

brit porn has about as much of what's meant to be in it, in it, as our chocolate and our sausages.

piscesx, Monday, 3 January 2011 14:38 (fourteen years ago)

"our chocolate and our sausages" was really phoney

moholy-nagl (history mayne), Monday, 3 January 2011 14:41 (fourteen years ago)

your sausages have pigs blood in them

our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 14:44 (fourteen years ago)

i met Sasha Grey and she was cool so shut up y'all, she's my girl

the tune is space, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:06 (fourteen years ago)

the suze is space

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:14 (fourteen years ago)

give her my number

ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 3 January 2011 15:16 (fourteen years ago)

^^^derives his lyfe philosophy from the bloodhound gang amirite

Boo Radely and the Super Fury Aminal (acoleuthic), Monday, 3 January 2011 15:17 (fourteen years ago)

so does sasha grey even make the circus geek porn that she is famous for anymore or is she just an artiste now? haven't been following her twitter or whatever and i haven't seen entertainment tonight in a while, so i'm not up to speed on her career. you'd think if you had ANY name recognition outside of porn that you would never ever do porn again, but what do i know.

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:25 (fourteen years ago)

she still does some stuff but its not like when she first entered the biz

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:29 (fourteen years ago)

why do you nerds only ever wanna talk about that broad, its not like shes the only porn ho who's ever picked up a book or listened to an album

Princess TamTam, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:32 (fourteen years ago)

she's the new Asia Carrera (mensa member porn star from the 90s)

StanM, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:33 (fourteen years ago)

bought this record for 25 cents back in the 80's

http://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/item/146/348/241/Vtgr.jpg

brownie, Monday, 3 January 2011 15:39 (fourteen years ago)

I like Sasha Grey as a Meisner-style actor. After The Girlfriend Experience, I googled her professional work and it wasn't my thing at all.

would like a calmer set (Eazy), Monday, 3 January 2011 15:49 (fourteen years ago)

ginger lynn used to go out with charlie sheen, right? talk about a mensa meeting! i definitely get that flashback feeling seeing her cuz she was all the rage in the 80's when i was a youth. her and traci lords. traci being another hipster reconstruction project. christy canyon! great names back then.

scott seward, Monday, 3 January 2011 16:17 (fourteen years ago)

mike horner

but it could have happened when i was playing tesla (chrisv2010), Monday, 3 January 2011 18:15 (fourteen years ago)

am I the only person here who can't name more than one porn star (without reading the names in this thread)?

and I can only name Ron Fucking Jeremy.

gravity explodes (CaptainLorax), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:11 (fourteen years ago)

show us your abstinence ring next, you herb

darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:12 (fourteen years ago)

Porn stars suck. I'm in total agreement with the OP

I use empflix for porn. SLightly better quality than redtube

gravity explodes (CaptainLorax), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:14 (fourteen years ago)

What Euro porn I've seen is terrible, IMO - anal speculum play isn't a turn-on, nor are dead eyes and the niggling thought of Eastern European sex trafficking in the back of my mind. If I'm going to watch porn, I'd rather watch women who at least appear to be interested in whatever's going on.

boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:17 (fourteen years ago)

tbh I only know Sasha from TV where she hosted some SexCon thing. I thought she was funny and self-aware and not ironic or deluded at all.

xxxp (lol)

the bear in the bumper car (rip van wanko), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:17 (fourteen years ago)

Chloe Nicole 4 lyfe.

Fetchboy, Monday, 3 January 2011 19:18 (fourteen years ago)

sure beats the British stuff.

― piscesx, Monday, January 3, 2011 2:25 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the "Wots All This Then?!" series

― our man flint flo$$y (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, January 3, 2011 2:30 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

brit porn has about as much of what's meant to be in it, in it, as our chocolate and our sausages.

― piscesx, Monday, January 3, 2011 2:38 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/autaux?b=M%5ea11f09b8576e606bcb5038dfdb92fb821&u=http%3A%2F%2Fachewood.com%2Fcomic.php%3Fdate%3D10142004

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:35 (fourteen years ago)

oi yeah don't stop luv

bless you

carles II of spain (max arrrrrgh), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:35 (fourteen years ago)

lol magical sex blokes

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 19:40 (fourteen years ago)

ok, literally the first Achewood I have ever liked

darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:42 (fourteen years ago)

I wish that title were real. so good.

ENBB, Monday, 3 January 2011 19:52 (fourteen years ago)

tbomb xp

max u r an a+ poster

max bro'd (nakhchivan), Monday, 3 January 2011 19:53 (fourteen years ago)

i met Sasha Grey and she was cool so shut up y'all, she's my girl

― the tune is space, Monday, January 3, 2011 5:06 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

is she a m4tm0s fan??

wkiw dr3w + SG

gr8080, Monday, 3 January 2011 21:50 (fourteen years ago)

didnt realize grady got down like that

ice cr?m, Monday, 3 January 2011 23:43 (fourteen years ago)

britain's top magical sex bloke = ben dover aka simon lindsay honey aka mr linzi drew aka dad of outnumbered 'star' tyger drew-honey

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 16:11 (fourteen years ago)

xpost nah we just met through some mutual friends at a show, and there's some talk about a collabo (tentative)

wkiw gr8080 + SG too

the tune is space, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 16:21 (fourteen years ago)

hey whiney i can't lipread the angry gif dude, what's up with him?

buy lying (whatever), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt5ghXdq6Z0

darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 19:38 (fourteen years ago)

thanks w. 2011: the year smang entered my brain. lord i'm cursed.

buy lying (whatever), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 19:45 (fourteen years ago)

u mean blessed.

gr8080, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 21:32 (fourteen years ago)

for real

ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 22:05 (fourteen years ago)

the vid is too close to samwell for comfort

buy lying (whatever), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 22:48 (fourteen years ago)

http://7.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/88/22/cca629d52d0b6e74d9527669393fd27d.jpg

piscesx, Saturday, 8 January 2011 12:52 (fourteen years ago)

I can't get over how much the "White Bun Busters" theme song up there sounds like Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti

She Got the Shakes, Saturday, 8 January 2011 15:37 (fourteen years ago)

ten months pass...

In the wake of the controversy over adult film actress Sasha Grey reading to kids in a California elementary school, it should be noted that is all part of Grey’s very studied plan to move into mainstream TV and feature films.

While her biggest non-porn roles to date have still reminded folks of her X-rated roots — the recent gig on “Entourage,” basically playing herself, and starring as the call-girl title character in Steven Soderbergh’s 2009 film “The Girlfriend Experience” — Grey reportedly is aggressively seeking roles that will showcase her far differently.

Linked lately to Oscar winner Adrien Brody — who supposedly is trying to help her land serious parts in several features — Grey is attracting notice from Hollywood insiders.

As one big studio exec told me Sunday, “Considering it was a sex tape that put both Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton on the map — this could work too. … The world has changed.”

buzza, Monday, 14 November 2011 20:41 (thirteen years ago)

http://confederatearticles.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dandy.jpg

All visual pornography is incredibly boring, in my opinion. Yes, it is arousing but it's uninteresting because the directors are obsessed with gonzo shots. I prefer published erotica to most of this crap.

― Rotating & Blunders (MintIce), Sunday, January 2, 2011 9:02 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark

the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Monday, 14 November 2011 20:55 (thirteen years ago)

Linked lately to Oscar winner Adrien Brody

oh whatta shock

virginia is for losers (rip van wanko), Monday, 14 November 2011 20:56 (thirteen years ago)

ALVY

Probably met by answering an ad in the
New York Review of Books. "Thirtyish
academic wishes to meet woman who's
interested in Mozart, James Joyce and sodomy."

xpost

buzza, Monday, 14 November 2011 20:58 (thirteen years ago)


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