A thread for AMC's The Killing, a remake of much-lauded Danish drama "Forbrydelsen"

Should I watch the original or should I wait for the premiere of AMC's version on April 3rd?

I'm on the point of ordering the original on dvd (out April 4) - confirmation I'm doing the right thing greatly appreciated please

Trusted friends tell me it is absolutely amazing and I'm absolutely crazy for not watching it yet. Still, I feel like the nature of the show requires not knowing anything about it (I only know the very basic premise) and so it feels like a one-or-the-other situation.

the premise looks totally uninteresting to me, but AMC has a good enough track record with their shows so far that I'll check it out

I've seen the first few episodes, and will go back to it at some point, but couldn't really commit to watching it over the course of eleven weeks. Would be perfect for DVD though. It's less about plot than atmosphere and performances, from what i have gathered so far, so i'd recommend giving the original a go. It has a slow, subtle sensibility that might not translate well in a remake.

wouldn't order the orig on DVD just yet, isn't it listed at ridic prices everywhere?

Forty quid or thereby on amazon, play etc. Seems reasonable for 20-odd hours if it's as good as the hype says.

i just started the oridge yesterday. by the magic of the internet.

working my way through the original. someone somewhere said they had heard it was a lot like Twin Peaks, which aside from the fact that it's about solving the death of a girl, I didn't get at all.

then i saw this image for the remake:

http://theflickcast.com/wp-content/uploads//amc-the-killing-poster.jpg

Up to episode 6 of forbrydelsen and it's excellent in every way.

Got to episode 14 last night and it just hasn't given up being brilliant. This remake has a very high standard to meet.

What it really reminds me of in a lot of ways is failed ITV soap-drama "Night & Day", but without the shit bits.

NYTimes article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/arts/television/amc-brings-the-killing-hit-crime-show-in-britain-to-us.html?_r=1

Something of a departure from the original, apparently, with a different ending.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-the-killing-producer-veena-sud

we have a thread on the real thing

only about half an hour into this, and it's pretty close to the original so far so i'm reserving judgment. just had to chime in and say 'UGH THAT MUSIC IS BACK'

I'm on the 5th episode of the original, and I find it boring. It's so slow! For example (rot13): Vg jnf boivbhf sebz yvxr gur 2aq be 3eq rcvfbqr gung gur cbyvgvpvna thl'f nffvfgnag/ybire jnf gur bar yrnxvat vasb naq gelvat gb shpx hc uvf pnzcnvta. Ubj zhpu ybatre orsber gur fubj trgf nebhaq gb npghnyyl fnlvat fb, engure guna pbagvahvat gb syhss hc gur qenzn?

okay, that's awesome and we need to start a rot13 thread like now.

Think the US version might be better than the original tbh. Only 2 eps in though so that's probably premature.

Sofie Gråbøl > Mireille Enos

Dan I –– vfa'g vg zber pbzcyvpngrq guna gung? Rvgure jnl fur jnfa'g gelvat gb shpx hc uvf pnzcnvta.

Trusted friends tell me it is absolutely amazing and I'm absolutely crazy for not watching it yet.

Yes! Definitely. Absolutely amazing show. I will watch the remake too.

A thread for The Killing, aka much-lauded Danish drama "Forbrydelsen" (with spoilers)

Vg jnf boivbhf sebz yvxr gur 2aq be 3eq rcvfbqr gung gur cbyvgvpvna thl'f nffvfgnag/ybire jnf gur bar yrnxvat vasb naq gelvat gb shpx hc uvf pnzcnvta. Ubj zhpu ybatre orsber gur fubj trgf nebhaq gb npghnyyl fnlvat fb, engure guna pbagvahvat gb syhss hc gur qenzn?

SPOILER: he ebat

just had to chime in and say 'UGH THAT MUSIC IS BACK'

― Gukbe, Monday, April 4, 2011 1:51 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

never seen the original but god theyre laying drama on thick

not sure this show is for me

my gf was really, really into the first two episodes from sunday, but man to me this just mostly seems like a histrionic 12 hour long episode of SVU or something so i'll probably get out after a couple more episodes unless it finds a way to hook me.

watch the original

i saw a few scenes of the remake and it just felt pointless

ok moving over here so as not to get mixed up with the original

so are we talking about US Killing on this thread? cause it's awesome.

― Mordy, Monday, April 18, 2011 2:09 PM

yeah it's really good
something is up with the aunt imo - the one who's always at the larsen's house
also the other detective, he's a former gang member isn't he? is he moonlighting as a private investigator on the side?

― daria g, Monday, April 18, 2011 2:12 PM

i haven't seen the most recent episode, but i wanted to say that the video game scenes are pretty chilling. i don't know what game he's playing (or if it's a real game -- it looks like something like Modern Warfare 2 or Black Ops or whatever) but it's very violent in a very restrained, chilling way. the kid isn't playing video games like i play them and i wonder if this kind of digital representation of violence is one of the things the series is planning on examining. (i assume by how subtle everything else has been, they aren't gonna be like: video games make killers.) maybe more about how inured you can become to violence.

well, i noticed that the kid himself was violent - sterling was afraid of him, in the 1st or 2nd episode, and that was before his father smacked him.
also the union guys are mobbed up, at least some of them? and larsen is a made man of sorts, or was.
and the little guy who's the professional political operative must have noticed that the councilwoman endorsed richmond, and thus knows that she likely took him up on what seemed to me to be a basically highly unethical/illegal quid pro quo (hiring certain plumbing companies for the new development)
and the fiance of the lead detective.. guy is a jerk, she won't marry him will she? i don't get it - it's like the moment she tells him she's under a lot of pressure and such, he's all like ME ME ME. ugh.

SPOILERS about RED RIDING TRILOGY are included below

i really want to like the killing, but it is so relentlessly dreary, and not in the 'charged atmosphere' way it seems to want. it is just ugly: the people are ugly, the story is ugly, the sets are ugly, the costumes and music are ugly, the connivances are ugly. and for goodness sake, why can't they shoot /something/ on a sunny day? every damn thing about this show is sad-making. i mean i get that it's a tragedy and the girl is dead, but there's nothing enlightening about watching 3 minute scene in which a father tells a little kid his sister was murdered. that's not entertainment, it's like penance by televisual means. it /does/ seem like a long episode of SVU, and the 'bad' stuff the kids do (play video games? smoke cigarettes? skateboard? have sex?) are straight out of '90s PSAs. If this ends up being about an underground sex ring or whatever like it was in red riding trilogy i am gonna be like 'fuck you, lame tv' and post about it here. but i will give it one more episode because ooh ooh ooh the only black character being a paedo actually pissed me off, and i want to see if it's just a red herring or if the producers have some cryptic racially offensive agenda.

COMING UP ON TEENAGERS ARE BAD: bunch of adolescents spray-paint something, break a piece of glass with a brick, and swear at each other. for an encore, they will use some recreational drugs and listen to loud music with references to death. parents will be offended, but reminded of their own misspent youths.

I'm 90% sure this show is red herring central, so I'm guessing a lot of the Teenagers are Bad stuff + the teacher are throwaway plot devices. Agreed that much of the 11 O'Clock News style "Are your tweens sexting???" fear mongering is laid on pretty thick.

i like a lot of stuff abt this show but its spending too much time w/ the campaign imo sorta deflates the whole story

t is just ugly: the people are ugly, the story is ugly, the sets are ugly, the costumes and music are ugly, the connivances are ugly.

http://www.nonpopulist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Mireille-Enos-The-Killing-AMC-1-268x400.jpg

no.

Gotta admit, tho - My thoughts on this show have basically traveled along the following line: watched pilot double ep and was like "here is a nice murder mystery to wrap your head around" > realized that said mystery would take three months to unfold & until the final third would be likely filled w/ cheap red herrings, regardless of the quality of production, writing, acting etc. > discovered I could download the Danish original w/ english subs, which was supposed to be some great thing anyway, according to the britishers > watched Forbrydelsen, loved it > kinda finding it hard to get psyched about this at all anymore.

First 4 episodes of this have been pretty awes imo

realized that said mystery would take three months to unfold & until the final third would be likely filled w/ cheap red herrings, regardless of the quality of production, writing, acting etc.

I should clarify that this is an observation based on what I perceived to be the general nature of the show at the outset, and not anything inferred from subsequent watching of the original series

problem is not so much that the show lacks in any fundamental way, just that the original is one of the high benchmarks of TV drama - all time, like.

best comparison I can think of is the 2004 remake of Dawn of the Dead.

i mean thats cool & all but its not even in english so...

Really don't get the love for the Danish original. Sarah Lund was amazing, but aside from that...

really like this so far -- thought based on the premise it would feel "slow" but so far it feels like lots of stuff is happening in every episode and i'm never bored or not having to pay attention to keep up.

the whole 'a remake is necessary b/c lol fat stupid american's can't be asked to watch the foreign language version like i already did' is kinda an easy line. transplanting and retelling a story is ... as old as stories, and can bring a lot of life and new audience to a good tale. unsure if i believe this is a good tale yet.

and for goodness sake, why can't they shoot /something/ on a sunny day?

doesn't this take place in seattle?

yeah. which, i assume, they chose because it allows them to wallow in gloominess.

I noticed that they always crank up the sound of the rain falling when they cut to the politician's office.

I'm enjoying this but the rain thing bugs me. I'm pretty sure it does not rain that hard all the time in Seattle. It rains a lot but not the downpours that you see on the show. It seems like every episode has one or two scenes that take place in the middle of a downpour.

I feel you, but at the same time I don't begrudge The Wire or Homicide for choosing not to shoot much in the parts of Baltimore that have a lot of trees and greenery. It's OK to play up the location's inherent atmosphere.

but the timeline of the events in the show is a matter of days, so it's probably just one weather pattern so far w/r/t the constant rain?

i like this a lot. it didn't seem like there was any particular attempt to make the teenagers' behavior seem shocking or all that unusual.

weirdly the thing i thought did PNW weather really well was twilight.

This is well paced. So damn gloomy and depressing though. Not a drama fan at all but each episode leaves you hanging so expertly its hard not to crave the next bit.

i was right about some of the guys being mobbed up

i take it the feds are investigating the mob & their connections (which probably includes the current mayor and likely also includes that female campaign operative who is not to be trusted b/c she is from a longtime political family). and i wonder if someone in the larsen immediate family was an informant.

shoot i bet rosie found out something she wasn't supposed to know and told bennett or mohammed or the imam, who told the feds

also somebody's going to blackmail richmond for hooking up with that staffer, there's a camera in the room, the show shoots things from a certain perspective to let you know someone else is watching who's not in the scene

The guy did make the "I thought you two were connected at the hips" crack right after the hooking up scene.

How is this holding up against the original?

Never saw the original but this is really well done.

I would have preferred to start watching this once all the episodes were available...

yeah, that's the tactic I'm taking.

loved this until this week where it is starting to bug me and I have a feeling the plot is going in a direction I don't care about and find irritating (the terrorist stuff). Also getting tired of Ensign Ro Cox Caine Maryanne staring vacantly into space, and the mayoral race storyline is a fucking snooze. But I'll stick with it.

imo the terrorist stuff is a red herring

yeah i mean obv that was just a little diversion (that took up, what, 10 minutes of screentime?)

but ahmed's still talking on the phone to mohammed about the passports so no

it seemed really 24 to me in a bad way

What the fuck has happened to this show?

Sarah Linden is just awful at everything she does.

Just a coincidence that some kid writes "KILLER" on the dry erase board on the same day that Ahmed shows up at school unannounced.

stopped watching two episodes ago out of boredom, felt vaguely guilty but it's lookin like the right call based on reactions in here and elsewhere (eg. http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/05/23/amc_the_killing_episode_9_undertow)

i haven't been keeping up because the original exists, but the US reaction is sort of interesting

The first was the revelation that the mysterious Muhammed did, in fact, help abduct the Muslim girl Aisha, not for purposes of molestation or murder, but to save her from genital mutilation prior to an arranged marriage. That "The Killing" would toss off a twist like this suggests a racist mentality more troubling than anything explored in the show's pat images of discrimination against Seattle's Muslims. Female genital mutilation is a political and cultural powder keg that deserves to be placed at the center of a series, or at least a multi-episode arc within a series, rather than treated as a handy way to strike a character from a list of murder suspects.

well, if the expert dramaturge matt zoller seitz says so, i guess...

mzs's vitriol towards this show is pretty entertaining. I mean the show is a massive disappointment but mzs goes SO hard at it every week.

this past week was way better.

the resolution of this is going to be lame.

i mean, really?

the grand canyon shirt thing, now that i think of it, is dumb. but i don't really have any problem w/ this show -- are most of peoples issues w/ it unique to the US version and totally changed from the original?

i haven't seen the original! my issues with this.. well, i am still watching so whatever, i still enjoy it although the writing can be flat at times.. and the twists just too contrived. also, 'orpheus' - is this supposed to be cryptic or is it intentional that it takes about 5 seconds to figure out who they're pointing to with that?

well they introduced that name and then indicated who it was in the same episode what 20 minutes later? so there wasn't any attempt to build suspense.

yeah i think my irritation is more 'what kind of fool would use that name on his email' because the answer is 'a goth who lives in his parents' basement'

renewed

http://i.imgur.com/TUNdm.jpg

Why does he receive campaign emails at his orpheus account?

yeah I wondered that too, sloppy. although maybe he has forwarding set up on one of them.

anyway resolution of this is going to bug me becaues I do not feel that richmond was suitably set up to be the killer; he is too smooth and stuff which is weird but this just seems out of the blue to me. so maybe they are going to surprise me? I don't know.

am I to belive rosie was working as an underage call girl, her aunt (who was also a call girl with the same service) didn't realize it, and rosie, despite being photographed all dolled up in the atm camera, was wearing a grubby old grand canyon sweatshirt to her last visit with a john? what?

She wasn't wearing the shirt. It was in the laundry.

I think it's either Gwen or Jamie or...ah, I don't give a shit who did it any more. Just one more episode and I don't have to think about watching this show again.

plz could one of you has also seen the original Forbrydelsen series simply let me know if The Killing follows the same plotline note for note? I have seen the first four or five eps, over the course of which it seemed esp. dutiful to Forb., but stopped & have not gotten back to it. I was thinking about catching up, but will prob not bother doing so if it is just basically hitting ALL the same plot points (suspects etc.) as the original. i have purposefully avoided web chatter on it in case it does go off on its own path & I might end up spoiling it for myself..

i have heard that the ending is different. beyond that i don't know. i watched a trailer for the american version and the lighting, music, and tone were so exactly the same that it seriously gave me the heebie jeebies. like an alternate universe. this is not my beautiful house! who am i???

it made me feel like i was in existenz.

Hmm, very good finale. Guess I'll keep watching this when it comes back.

Wow fuck this show

no doubt

i knew that other detective was up to something on the side

however (WHY AM I THINKING ABOUT THIS) if he is involved in trying to frame richmond, seems like it's done out of convenience more than anything given that they spent half the show investigating bennett

This is a pretty good breakdown of everything dumb about this show:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/orpheus-descending,57743/

loooool so I'd heard that there were only 13 episodes to this, so I was like, wow, they really tightened up the plot. But no, they just stopped halfway through!

I mean, that episode in the original, where she's on the plane with her son and you can see the gears turning in her mind and you're like "oh my god, she's not going to stop the plane on the runway.... is she??" was AWESOME but if the season ended there i'd want to throw my TV out the window

srsly thats what they did??? what!!

you crazy americans

Jesus, this show.

haha srsly? serves you right for not speaking danish.

I just gave up on all of the absurdities in the last episode: How can you threaten to tell the husband of the wife who had the affair with Richmond about the affair when it is on the front page of the newspaper and would also, presumably, be the lead story on the 5 o'clock news? Why didn't Bennett Ahmed's wife recognize the man who nearly beat her husband to death? Why did the hospital let Stan into Bennett's room in the first place?

I know the answer: Not to further the plot, just to churn up drama. Such poor, poor writing. I can imagine many people who haven't seen the Danish version would be hesitant to watch it based on this show. (raises hand)

yeah to all those points.

I was pretty positive about halfway through blonde campaign worker woman did this out of jealousy. In fact I was positive it would turn out to be her until the ending when it looked like cop dude got into a car with someone else because she was with coucilman guy (sorry I can't remember anyone's name on this).

I'll still watch this next year even though it is ridiculous. It's like the early years of 24 where I excuse all kinds of dumb shit because it's still entertaining.

"blonde campaign worker woman did this out of jealousy" = killed rosie, that is

heh, people are SO MAD about this, guys, i was telling you for MONTHS to just download the danish one, and no one listened, and now look at you

I actually don't care so much that we didn't learn the identity of the killer; I've gotten the impression that some people think that AMC/Veena Sud betrayed some implicit promise by not revealing it in the final episode. But the writing on this show is so frustratingly sloppy -- and, as righteoumalestrom points out, always in the service of big dramatic moments and confrontations, even when such scenes makes little realistic sense. I have to think that a lot of people who honestly like this show have been fooled by the show's production value, narrative device, and network imprimatur into thinking it's "quality TV."

I'm not mad about it, it's just tv. The writing is sloppy but I'm still interested enough for s2

think this is being trailed on ch4 at the moment - they are being very oblique about it with the ads just saying 'who killed ... larson'

I have to think that a lot of people who honestly like this show have been fooled by the show's production value, narrative device, and network imprimatur into thinking it's "quality TV."

― Don Rickles on the Dime (jaymc), Monday, June 20, 2011 11:39 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark

kind of feel this way about every AMC show, personally, they're all pretty flawed, usually from a plotting standpoint, imo

curious if all the plot holes or lapses of logic/realism are unique to this version of the show or if some of them were carried over from the Danish version

kind of feel this way about every AMC show, personally, they're all pretty flawed, usually from a plotting standpoint, imo

I've only seen four episodes of Breaking Bad, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, but I definitely don't feel that way about Mad Men.

Mad Men has fewer plot problems than The Killing/Walking Dead/Breaking Bad/Rubicon, but i don't find the plots compelling (though i know i'm in the minority on that)

curious if all the plot holes or lapses of logic/realism are unique to this version of the show or if some of them were carried over from the Danish version

― ForbezDVDelsen (some dude), Monday, June 20, 2011 12:50 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

iirc there are a couple hanging threads and unexplained bits and a plot whole or two but nothing so big or annoying that the show becomes unconvincing. the danish show is great, it does get pretty nuts-in-a-bad-way toward the last 4-5 episodes (probably more annoying if you have to watch it 1 ep a week instead of all in a row) but the finale is super satisfying

the gambit of ending the season right in the middle of the original's season is pretty weird -- i wonder if this means season 2 is going to stretch out the last 6 episodes of the Danish 1st season, or divert more into new territory. or maybe they'll just adapt every season of the Danish version into two years worth of shows so that they never run out of source material?

danish first season is 20 episodes, so ending it right in the middle sorta makes sense

i sort of wanted the danish version to get even crazier, but you become attached to the main characters and that's enough to keep you watching even if it is a bit 'everyone's a suspect'.

it may be "right in the middle" but it's not a tidy halfway point -- AMC wouldn't do a 7-episode season, so it raises the question of whether they're going to have it be half the Larsen case and half introducing a new one, or resolving that one early and moving on, or stretching it out for another 13 episodes.

Veena Sud said, "I can tell you there will be a resolution to this investigation in season 2 and there will also be the emergence of another case in season 2, but I can't tell you specifically where either of those happen."

I'm not mad about it, it's just tv. The writing is sloppy but I'm still interested enough for s2
this!

also it makes me really sad to see my dear seattle depicted in such a dreary light. most of the city (and weather!) in this show don't seem anything like it, really. (probably because it wasn't filmed there, but it irks me that someone is continuing the old 'oh it's pouring rain all the time!' cliche).

Mad Men has fewer plot problems than The Killing/Walking Dead/Breaking Bad/Rubicon, but i don't find the plots compelling (though i know i'm in the minority on that)

i like 'mad men' v much but don't care about the plot tbh

Mad Men is a character study and plot is absolutely peripheral to the show, like Sopranos. Breaking Bad is much more of a mix of plot and character. Killing is all plot and could really use some more character.

point is AMC's whole "story matters here" marketing angle is kinda funny considering the storytelling problems their shows have almost across the board

Think Breaking Bad and Mad Men are pretty solid storytelling-wise, at least for their needs. I've got 5 episodes of The Killing left, and the storytelling is woeful (though it really is just as bad as the original).

A blog post by Myles McNutt about the The Killing's threat to AMC's brand.

haha that blog post points out this ridiculous NYT article 'about' the finale that went online before it aired and is clearly based only on last week's episode's "reveal" of the murderer:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/arts/television/the-killing-on-amc-solves-murder-in-season-finale.html?_r=2

not really sure what these massive Breaking Bad plot problems are supposed to be tbh

i griped about my numerous issues with season 2 on a BB thread, won't rehash them (also the show's creator has been pretty open about 'making it up as they go along,' which regardless of how you feel about the results kind of says something about the narrative vision of the show)

plz could one of you has also seen the original Forbrydelsen series simply let me know if The Killing follows the same plotline note for note? I have seen the first four or five eps, over the course of which it seemed esp. dutiful to Forb., but stopped & have not gotten back to it. I was thinking about catching up, but will prob not bother doing so if it is just basically hitting ALL the same plot points (suspects etc.) as the original. i have purposefully avoided web chatter on it in case it does go off on its own path & I might end up spoiling it for myself..

― Heady Snobbin (Pillbox), Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:37 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

guess I know which way to go on this now..

It mostly just switches things around. We'll have to wait for next season to see how much it changes, though the last five minutes there is a pretty dramatic shift.

i think the thing that bugs me most is that some of the actors are so good that it seem skinda unfair to just keep loading them up with bad storytelling and char development.

i dunno if there's any way to communicate this without SPOILERZ or if it matters, but what part of the last 5 minutes is the dramatic change from the original?

yeah the cast is pretty solid -- and as i'm fond of saying, a show that has a good cast (and premise/aesthetic) in place from the jump but weak writing has a better chance of improving later on than vice versa.

i griped about my numerous issues with season 2 on a BB thread, won't rehash them (also the show's creator has been pretty open about 'making it up as they go along,' which regardless of how you feel about the results kind of says something about the narrative vision of the show)

If I recall correctly, S2 was meticulously planned, which actually resulted in some of the show's hokier moments. S3 was approached more loosely but I think they knew the major plot points they wanted to hit - I suspect Gilligan has overstated the degree to which they were improvising because it was such a marked contrast from the previous season.

On a related note, The individual-episode podcasts on the BB site are occasionally fascinating.

fair enough -- maybe the meticulously planned stuff was what felt tediously "edgy" or cornily comedic to me

yeah that season was going for a certain cinematic sweep I guess, but it didn't always click. still, coming off of a strike-shortened season is tricky so I give em props.

The Killing on the other hand I don't think I even made it through the pilot of.

omg lmao at that nyt article. so much RONG.

don't worry about SPOILERZ on my account. I was curious enough about the outrage over the finale that I read the breakdown of it on Vulture and also Sepinwall's take on it.

When the series started, I was intrigued enough to seek out the original series. All told, I'm glad I invested my time in that & not the remake. Sure, it had the unrelenting gloom & routine red herrings (& the build-up to the finale was a bit ridiculous iirc), but the sustained mood and excellent performances & writing made it compelling throughout & ultimately rewarding - tho I may have been more irked by the constant red herrings if I had to wait a week in b/w each episode, admittedly.

nyt is still standing by it too - http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/06/new_york_times_standing_by_its.html

i dunno if there's any way to communicate this without SPOILERZ or if it matters, but what part of the last 5 minutes is the dramatic change from the original?

SPOILERZZZ

no assassination attempt and the partner isn't setting up the politician.

END SPOILERZZZ

hah the follow-up article is equally as idiotic!

yeah that was an amazingly pathetic ass-covering attempt

NYT's TV coverage continues to be terrible. I guess they're too busy doing real reporting or some b.s.

I just read both NYT pieces. Ginia Bellefante should write for that show -- she has as much a grasp of logic and plotting as the current writers:

"And Richmond seems to have had many female companions in addition to his girlfriend, all of whom look like his ex-wife"

Gwen looks nothing like his dead wife and she was not an ex-wife. They were still married when she was killed.

not to mention that saying belko couldn't have lashed out to attack an innocent man because they'd already done that once... because you know, we haven't established that belko is crazy and does not follow normal person logic at ALL and the show NEVER deploys the same plot points twice!

That Myles McNutt piece linked upthread is a good read on why people are actually angry about The Killing. You can go to pretty much any network and watch a show as bad as The Killing, but AMC has worked so hard on their brand perception that you wouldn't expect to see a show of this quality aired there.

I mean I am one of the maybe five people who watched and enjoyed Rubicon and, for all of its faults, I even liked The Walking Dead and will watch it next season, but I think this may have been too much.

Both this show and Walking Dead are wasting a lot of really good performances on terrible scripts and scenarios, and a lot of nice visuals. It's infuriating.

i dunno about Walking Dead... can't say i thought much of the cast, or that it wasn't dumber than The Killing

I liked the cast a lot! I would almost tune in for Michael Rooker alone.

Walking Dead's aspirations to transcend its genre are much smaller than The Killing's. That and The Killing couldn't even adequately perform its genre requirements.

Funny thing about The Walking Dead is if Darabont had hewed more closely to the comic it could have been better. Bringing in new characters who really serve no purpose (Michael Rooker's character), going in different directions than the source material, but then again it's Darabont so what do you expect?

nothing in The Killing finale pissed me off more than the bad CGI 'splosion end of The Walking Dead

Walking Dead was an A+ pilot followed by several episodes of water-treading, tho mad-scientist episode was pretty ridic. Still, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for a full season.

but then again it's Darabont so what do you expect?

Shawshank is overrated, but still good & The Mist is also flawed, but the things it gets right it does very, very well.

AMC seems produce better series when they stick to original content imo.

man this show turned into such garbage

The way Linden flipped from "stay away from my son or I will have you arrested" to "sure, hang out with your dad as much as you want" was almost as jarring as anything else was.

I haven't really harped on the political angle in this show because I really went to town on it in the Big Love thread, but if the writers had watched Season 3/4 of The Wire rather than L&O: SVU, they would have taken away a lot more about city politics and elections.

i'm not so sure the show's flaws can be easily chalked to too much network procedural not enough highbrow cable drama

Michelle Forbes' acting did a good job of masking the fact that Mitch Larsen is the worst person who ever lived.

i thought she was terrible!

I mean I am one of the maybe five people who watched and enjoyed Rubicon and, for all of its faults, I even liked The Walking Dead and will watch it next season, but I think this may have been too much.

i liked rubicon a lot, although i thought it was terribly slow. this is not nearly as good as rubicon, but i'll still take it over things like harry's law and outsourced that show up on network tv.

xpost Not necessarily one type of drama over the other, but just to have an understanding of the day to day in politics and be able to write about it. For example, one of the truest scenes I seen wrt to politics is when Carcetti is dialing for dollars. Fundraisers really make candidates sit in windowless rooms and eyeball the phone to make sure the candidate is on the line. A true scene is not, "Oh we're two weeks away from the election, better start working on that newspaper endorsement."

I know that's asking a lot for this show.

Sud Speaks

"I'm flattered," says Sud, "and I guess surprised a little bit. But certainly it's a good feeling to know people are watching and talking about the show. I mean, the last time I felt this personally myself, and saw this type of reaction, was when The Sopranos ended its run [with a shockingly abrupt, ambiguous, mostly despised 2007 finale]. If the show can be in that company, it's a deep compliment."
"The fact that people love us or hate us is a beautiful thing. I don't want to be kinda liked. The fact that someone loves my show or hates my show is great." Sud isn't a big Internet reader, but heard that one thread suggests The Killing is gaining more fans than it's losing from the Season 1 finale.

Sud suggests that those who object to the show's red herrings (like the finale's last-minute revelations that a crucial bit of evidence may be fake, a good guy a bad guy and the bad guy actually innocent) may be looking for an old-fashioned procedural, which The Killing emphatically and radically isn't. "They're complaining that there are too many red herrings?" Sud says. "Well, there's two ways to look at it. Either it's a left brain journey where you're just connecting the dots of who the suspects are or it's more of a holistic journey where a young girl is murdered these are the potential suspects and this is why."

Starts in the UK on thursday (21:00 ch4 115min)

Watching the second episode of this remake and, while it's pretty good, I can't imagine anyone who heard me raving about the excellence of the original series sitting down to this and thinking "Oh wow" or even "I'd like to see the Danish version", which is a real shame.

Avoiding most of this thread for fear of spoilers. I have a cold this weekend and started watching this last night. Just finished episode 4, holy crap at this show's long game. Gonna try to watch the rest of the season today (I get to do that-- I have a cold!)

I haven't lived in Seattle since 1996... what part of town is 'the end of the line' where Linden's partner finds the hoops office?

Little Vancouver iirc

this is up on netflix, should i bother watching it or is it shitty?

it's ok but it's annoying at times.

it's awful imo. I quit halfway through.

lols and spoilers to be had in this NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/magazine/veena-sud-the-killing-comeback.html?pagewanted=all

“YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.”

“This will be the last review I write of ‘The Killing,’ because this will be the last time I watch ‘The Killing.’ ”

“I no longer counsel patience with ‘The Killing’! You may unlock the toolshed and get the pitchforks!”

And those are the professionals. The amateurs were somewhat less kind.

feel like the second season is more taut and more driven than the first season was; at least the opener had about 100 times more things happen in it than last year.

did you guys know that mireille enos is married to alan ruck? this is my new favorite celebrity couple.

i'm not crazy about this show but my wife is really into it and i have to admit i want to see what happens next

Best line last episode:

Linden (viewing email on computer monitor): "I can't download the attachment."
Police Tech on phone: "Click on the 'download attachment' button."
Screen pans to monitor showing email with a big 'Download Attachment' button.

did you guys know that mireille enos is married to alan ruck? this is my new favorite celebrity couple.

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:17 PM (Yesterday) Bookmar

i know right! like just knowing that makes me smile. i wish them well, including better TV shows than they've been in so far.

what drives me crazy about this show is that all the characters on it are belligerent jerks to everyone around them, nearly all of the time. even when there's no reason to be & no motivation for it, they're just rude.

is Linden this unsympathetic in the Danish version? I don't know how she still has that kid.

Something about the flat affectless look her face takes on when she's angry just really irritates me.

Don't worry, I wasn't thinking about it all week.

So that happened.

I thought the second season of this was much, much tighter than the second-half of the first season where it really felt like it was floundering. a very strong finish also.

the only lingering thing is: isn't Stan going to, like, go to prison for beating the teacher half to death?

When things actually pulled together with a single conspiracy and some genuine stakes, yeah. It was decent. I thought the ending was a bit overmuch manipulative though...

no doubt this would have been more successful and more taut as a longer single series. a lot of the filler red-herring misdirections from season 1 just seem pointless in the end.

the ending: her film? it was but it was also kind of touching. I liked that we finally got to see this girl in the final episode.

not just the film, but the last twist. "i didn't know it was her." felt gratuitous, like something you can get away with at the end of an L&O episode, but not a whole two seasons of a show.

i liked it but i like cheap shit like that.

when richmond had jackson and ames over I thought for sure they were going to arrest them as accessories or for obstructing justice but no, he was fulfiling the slimy deal jamie set up. I liked that too.

RIP

No third season then?

I liked season 1 of this more than most ppl and was into season 2 til I got tired of trying to find valid DL links with episode 4. Hopefully it'll go up on netflix like s1 did.

i don't see how they could have done a third season really.

but it still doesn't mean rubicon is ever coming back :-(

So I had no idea this was coming back until the other day. Decent first hour (didn't watch the second yet); hopeful they can restart this and don't slip down the useless pathways that mucked up the last season (although I was fine with the end of season 2).

Wasn't expecting this a

at all.

Didn't read anything about a stay of execution.

i watched seasons 1 and 2 over the winter. not great, some real low points, but not the worst most vile show ever like the internet would have u believe... the season 2 finale directed by patty jenkins had some great moments

It is the type of series I will watch even though I know it ain't much cop. The discerning fucker that I am.

the guy who plays holder is really compelling, amazing that a swedish guy could master the white rapper accent so well

His father is american, so he had a bit of a head start. But yeah he is pretty good.

i think the same people who hated the divergent low points in seasons 1 and 2 are the same sorts of people who couldn't stand that laura palmer's killer wasn't revealed at the end of season 1

watched the second hour. great set up so far, hope it follows through. last scene was fucking haunting.

i actually just finished the second series of the danish show, which was great. is the us show worth catching up with as well, or is it basically the same plot-wise?

I'm not sure. I think it's worth watching but people felt like it took too long and had too many red herrings. the plot resolution was really good though, just not sure if it was the same one

and I don't think season 3 is based at all on the danish series other seasons, or at least it doesn't sound like it

Is there any point whatsoever to someone who really enjoyed the original watching the US version?

so i binged on the first season of this the past week and really enjoyed it. then i watched the first episode of the second season *MINOR SPOILER I GUESS* and was pretty put off by the conspiracy direction it seems to be taking. am i in for an entire season of confusing political intrigue?

RIP The Killing, someone pls export Joel Kinnaman's character to a better show immediately.

man i hate this chick's face

also i don't understand the sound production, it seems like everyone is super close miked or like they voiceovered it after shooting or something. for added presence and INTENSITY

"Six Minutes" is better than this show deserved. Season 3 is solid so far though.

binge-watched all of season 1 and half of season 2 while I was sick last week...though tbf I had to have a break a few times and watch some gilmore girls or veronica mars or lame tv just to wash all the gloom off, watching all those eps in a row the rain reaaaaally started to get to me

I really hate Mitch Larsen's character, but Commander Kane's was v good to make her such a punchable character. Love Brendan Sexton III, though he did p good as Belko (no-one ever explained what his actual name is did they? for half the show I thought his name was Balko like the cartoon dog)

Love Kinnaman. The way he's so chill and the way he talks reminds me so much of a friend of mine. "In the bloodsport of life, I am your sensei" <3 <3

I think that quote from the producer upthread about the red herrings is pretty key. It's really not meant to play out like a normal join the dots procedural. I liked that it was a lot more human in the way some things just seem important but it turns out they're not, mistakes happen idk I dug that. and the family stuff was p good too, I thought.

oh and I dug the Twin Peaksian vibe of it. cold and weird and slightly surreal.

Liked the way it resolved s2. Now I need to wait for S3 to be free on Amazon so I can binge that.

The Larsen family, as individuals, various subsets, and the whole chain, kept me watching Seasons 1 and 2, bravo. I didn't feel motivated to follow Season 3 so closely, though the street kids were good, whenever they did get some screen time. The ending was written so it could well be considered *the* end, but still with some room for further speculation, and fan fiction, of course---also, if somehow the show got uncancelled yet again--well, the writers set themselves up for quite a challenge. And now
http://lostremote.com/back-from-the-dead-netflix-begins-instagram-promotion-for-season-4-of-the-killing_b42027

Yeah, Belko was good too, that miserable little bastard.

I cruised through season 2 mostly on inertia and fondness for these actors tbh, but Season 3 is actually factually excellent.

season 3 episode 9 (dir. Jonathan Demme) just made me cry, amazing and could be watched independently of the rest of the show w/o too much confusion.

is season 3 a new mystery?

i need to see s3, totally forgot about it!

Yeah, S3 is a new mystery. Thought it was significantly better than the first two seasons but it still had issues. Final season trailer just popped up.

Wow, Demme.

Basically all that carries over from 1 and 2 is the accrued characterizations and personal histories of the cops.

also s3 is largely about homeless teens, a milieu for which I am a total sucker

just started s3

this show made me realize how much i love inscrutability in characters

it should be a keyword search in netflix

also all this rain & bad weather is good for helping me forget that it's hot as balls here in sactown

Sometimes I like to imagine how bad Holder's hoodie stinks.

How to you take it Linden???

http://plannedbanter.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/mireille-enos-on-the-killing.jpg

The new season, which I would assume is definitely the last, is decent enough. It's up on Netflix now.

Totally off-topic but I couldn't find a general new series related thread. There is an Italian 12 episode spin-off series of the movie Gomorrah out there, so far I could only find a version with Finnish subs. Looks very promising.

Season 3 was so good, I'm p psyched for the new concluding batch

ust finished this final season. Pretty predictable/safe.

Finished last night. Carl and I were discussing the ending, and she thinks that the implication was that Holder and Linden were going to become romantically involved. I guess, maybe? But I took it just to mean that they were going to become best friends again and hang out more. If I recall, neither of them had any romantic feelings for each other through the course of the series, so for it to pop up right at the end would be weird.

Overall, I loved this. It's not the greatest series ever, but the tone and mood of it were very appealing to me.

Series 4 not on series 3's level but really good. I took the ending as relationship romantic but it's cool that it's interpretable the other way.

I'm gonna miss seeing mirielle enos' face making crazy expressions of consternation and suppressed anger.

I remember thinking the final episode was particularly well-directed, then realized its director was Jonathan Demme!

Fashionably late as always, we just blasted through this whole thing in a couple weeks and finished last night. The further I get from it, the more I feel like this was a lot of good acting and directing in the service of total garbage. The killer reveal at the end of season two was frustratingly stupid and out of left field in the same way as that goddamn first season of Broadchurch (well, we've evoked and ruled out plausible suspect after plausible suspect until just about every credited actor has been exonerated soooo...I guess the guilty party is whoever's left? even if it makes no real sense?). And then the reveal at the end of the third season....hoo boy. I actually called the penultimate suspect very early on as a total goof because there was no reason to suspect him until there was. But the person who actually did it? The first thing that popped into my mind was Merv Griffin being revealed as the serial killer at the end of The Man With Two Brains. 'I've always just loved to kill. I really enjoyed it.' That was roughly the level of depth and rationale that we got.

In all, though, I thought those first three seasons were v. good with the character development even if the whodunnit shtick was completely cockeyed. So leave it to the fourth season to completely spoil the aspect that actually worked. I was not a fan of that final moment of season three (although I'm sure it felt very thematically satisfying for whichever writer came up with the idea), but Linden and Holder's response to that event over the course of the final season was completely ludicrous. I was just like, do you seriously actually want me to come to hate these characters in their final hours? What is that? The very very ending was fine but felt kinda unearned.

Wasn't this thing feted when it was new? Maybe there's a reason I haven't heard a peep about it in the intervening years. At any rate, still thought pretty much all of the central performers were great and I want to see them in other, better things.