John Cassavetes - C or D

Letigre- What's Your Take on Cassavete's

sorry, it's a song also asking whether Cassavete's is clasic or dudd. Haven't seen his films so i cant comment but he inspires good songs.

someone didn't see that.

DVD Planet is the current winner at $81.22 w/ free shipping.

I was thinking about reviving this today. I've never seen any of Cassavetes films and I'm a little scared off by the 'actorly' tag/mythos. I associate Method-y stuff with Sean Penn overacting, are Cassavetes films good or bad in that regard?

A lot of people are unloading their original issue Cassavetes' DVDs so you may be able to find one on the cheap ($10) which may be a more conversative investment.

"shadows" is a curiosity for itself, it got a bit old, but steel is very good.

Just got Opening Night. I better like it or else.

uh oh.

"faces" is probably my all-time favorite, i think shadows is VERY VERY good though, and the datedness of some of the performances just makes it more fascinating by my lights

can't remember who said it or even the exact quote, it may have been peter falk, saying that everyone thought cassavetes' movies were improvised but he says "are you kidding? there's no way i could think up lines like that - no, every line was written"

i believe that's true for "shadows" as well, and the title at the beginning (or end?) saying "THIS ENTIRE MOVIE WAS IMPROVISED" was actually a p.r. stunt

i find absolutely nothing "actorly" about any of his movies, which is surprising given his sometimes abhorrent working methods

(i.e. slapping people when they weren't "angry" enough!)

bits of Faces excepted, I haven't liked any one of his films; I know he wrote scripts, but he indulged his actors, refusing to curb their mannerisms. Those running times are brutal too.

"i believe that's true for "shadows" as well, and the title at the beginning (or end?) saying "THIS ENTIRE MOVIE WAS IMPROVISED" was actually a p.r. stunt"

haha right - I saw a back-to-back screening of "Shadows" and "Faces" a couple of months ago. The line about improvisations was right at the end. I didn't know whether to believe it or not, as I simply don't know about how improvising makes it onto films and how you could identify such a thing -- I'd think of seeing something really raw, something that could annoy an audience, perhaps. In that sense, nothing in "Shadows" fit that, unlike the beginning of "Faces", which I really loved, though I had to really stick with it after that opening.

What's that song at the end of "Faces", it ws really perfect wasn't it?

woman under the influence is one of my fav movies - gena rowlands is so scary good in it

just scary to me.

that too

one more vote for Faces. I liked that one. I think I saw a couple of others like ten years ago that didn't really make an impression - other than "wow, this is kind of annoying."

I do want to see Husbands. Is that the only one of his films in which he also starred.

I can prob Google that.

I used to have a giant Faces poster that I got in Paris during a Cassavetes revival. I think over time I started liking the poster more than the actual movie.

im surprised hes not getting more ilx luv here

ILX hates faked improv.

I'll know after tonight whether I think that Cassavetes ever got a good performance from his wife; to me her best work is still in Another Woman.

Tracer OTM about the, uh, non-actorly-ness of Cassavetes films (although I guess I prefer his later films to his earlier ones where the 'improv' is foregrounded). The workshop element seems to lie much more in pacing and story-logic than the kind of mannerisms Alfred mentions.

Opening Night is my fav Cassavetes, and his best with Gena Rowlands. Minnie and Moskowitz rates a close second.

The brutal running times is the only thing that keeps me from going back to my 5 Films collection more, but everytime I do the naturalism (from actors and equally the look of the films) pulls me right back in.

A Woman is still my fave, but obviously I'm gonna have to rep for Ben Gazzara's character in killing of a chinese bookie.

I've only seen two: Killing of a Chinese Bookie (which was GREAT) and Gloria (which was AWFUL). never understood where his rep comes from.

the other good ones?

never seen minnie and moskowitz, big trouble's okay, gloria's pretty obnoxious, otherwise yes yes yes

"never seen minnie and moskowitz"

my fave cassavetes movie.made in the (better)period of his genre movies,this is the "romantic comedy" one.

LOVE STREAMS, GUYS

Love Streams: Not on DVD (officially), barely +0rren+able. It's been 3 weeks, seeders!

don't sleep on minnie and moskowitz, everyone.

MIKEY & NICKY. Elaine shoulda been around more often

So far out of the 5 disc box set, I've watched 'A Woman Under' and 'The Killing of a Chinese Bookie'. I loved both movies, but really The Killing was amazing and so odd. What kind of a strip bar was that, those skits?? When he leaves the casino with the girls, which I wasn't expecting it to look as it did either, I almost cried. I was moved by this movie in such a unexpected way. Which of the remaining films should I watch next? Shadows? Faces? Opening Night?

We don't discuss his acting much. Edge of the City has a first-rate performance by Sidney Poitier (loose, laughing and casual like never before or since) and a weirdly moving one by Cassavetes. As dock workers who become best friends, they have real chemistry, and Macho Man of All Macho Men Cassavetes plays it like he's got a crush on him; he certainly cares more about Poitier than the girl Poitier sets him up with.

good movie.

Much less overwrought than On the Waterfront -- and 79 minutes long!

Cassavetes seems on the verge of going Method yet never does; it's aged very well. Only the score and Ruby Dee's crying scene go over the top.

The big Cassavetes series starts at Toronto's Cinematheque tonight: everything he directed except Big Trouble, plus Rosemary's Baby and a couple of other films as an actor. Hope to see everything except Gloria, which doesn't really appeal to me. Gena Rowlands is on hand tonight.

Wow. Seeing a Cassavetes movie in the same audience as Gena Rowlands would be really cool.

I'm skipping her big talk at 6:30 (expensive), but she's there again to introduce A Woman Under the Influence later on.

That one's great, it was probably praised on a Peter Falk thread recently I'm guessing.

It's literally the most crucial '70s American film (from all accounts) that I've never seen. I've had an Anchor Bay VHS for years, but I've been holding out for the big-screen. Finally that day has come.

Gloria is pretty fun, fwiw.

wau, w/gena huh.
most recent cassavetes i caught was MINNIE & MOSKOWITZ, which is kinda a gruelling watch & only resembles the 'lighter, romantic' film it's sometimes billed as long after you've seen it. but it's great in a lot of ways too. and perhaps the most beautiful looking of his films i've seen.

also have a couple of documentaries on him lined up. enjoy the screening!, report back on what gena rowlands says.

I have a VHS copy of Minnie and Moskowitz that I haven't watched yet; have never seen any Cassavetes, but have been wanting to get into him for a long time now. is M&M the wrong place to start?

I saw Faces first and I think it's still my favorite.

I'm glad I saw A Woman, but I couldn't see it a second time. (A guy during the Q&A afterwards claimed to have seen it 10 times.) It was just too much--there are only so many cathartic moments a film can support. I felt like I was watching The Exorcist during the long scene where they take Rowlands away. I figured that was going to be as exhausting as the film would get, so the half-hour (?) homecoming scene on top of that was deadly. The print was beautiful, so I loved some of the cinematography--mid-'70s American films have a look you can spot within five seconds, and you probably either love it or you don't. The music was surprisingly good and weird. I liked spotting the trainer from Raging Bull, and was amazed to learn that the Leon Wagner I spotted in the credits was "Daddy Wags" the baseball player.

Gena Rowlands was very good during the Q&A; her thoughts on her character and recollections of making the film were very sharp.

I get the feeling it's going to be a long series.

Minnie and Moskowiz is great! Definitely one of my Cassavetes faves, possibly my favorite. Sure it's kind of "grueling" (which cassavetes isn't?) but it has more of a satisfying emotional payoff than some of the others imo.

I'll be seeing that one...like Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now, I'm on the boat for the duration.

A Woman Under the Influence, Husbands, and Chinese Bookie are all more bleak to me. M&M has an odd kind of sweetness underneath the exhausting stuff. Although it's been many years since I've seen any of these.

I can't stand that Letigre song about Cassavetes. Sounds like they were bored and just watched A Woman Under the Influence for the first time and didn't get it. I noticed that it does seem to heavily shape opinions on him by those who have not seen his films. I have heard so many times, "Oh yeah, he is a misogynist".

I love Minnie and Moskowitz more and more. The older I get the more I take away from his films. I think that when watching a Cassavetes film, the more experience a person has in life, with relationships, people, the more they may take away from his films, appreciate them, get them. Watch a film of his now and then in ten years and you won't see it exactly as you did.

I loves Shadows and especially Ben Caruthers. I appreciate him in Shadows, he was an interesting character and seems like he was rather interesting in real life. It is too bad he didn't have more than featured extra parts or even juicy co-starring parts in films. I think the actors in Cassavetes films were always these interesting characters, like Tim Carey.

I couldn't stand Jaglom at 16. Thought he was a bore until I was 25 and then after that his movies began to become more interesting.

I'm 49. Maybe when I'm 58, I'll be ready to appreciate A Woman Under the Influence.

i reacted to 'woman under the influence' more or less the same way clemenza did -- i liked a few of the scenes a lot but it was a grueling watch, and not really in a rewarding way (at least not for me). i do love 'shadows,' at least, and 'gloria' is entertainingly weird and offbeat.

Apologies to *tera for getting a little snippy, especially as you took the time to write a thoughtful comment. I do disagree, though: I think I would have been much more impressed by A Woman Under the Influence when I was much younger and more liable to think I was seeing something honest and raw and important.

I just feel that a photo, painting, book, song, film, a place, even memories to a point are always in a state of flux because we are. I just think people are constantly changing and so our pov won't always be exactly the same.

When I said that, "the more experience a person has in life, with relationships, people, the more they may take away from his films, appreciate them, get them." I was using may as in might or expressing the possibility. What a person takes away is completely personal. This is just what I think simply because it is how I have felt and how my small circle of Cassavetes watching friends have felt.

When I posted my comment I had no yet read yours, so I was not replying or implying anything intentionally.

I've watched four Cassavetes films; can't stand them, unfortunately.

I unreservedly have loved every Cassavetes film I have watched. A Woman Under the Influence was special for me since I work around many of the men he depicts. His working class are very honest from my perspective. The Killing Of A Chinese Bookie is flawless as well. But I am rarely critical of most films I watch. Film is the one medium I turn my brain off and just enjoy where the director wants to take me.

Faces tonight. I want to see as much as I can while I have the chance, but I know after two films this will not be easy.

I found the first half excruciating. John Marley's good, but his friend (Gena Rowlands' father in A Woman) is unbearable. When Seymour Cassel showed up, I thought it got better--there was some amusing banter between the women, Lynn Carlin's suicide attempt was convincing, and the ending was quite good. (Being quiet, it's good by default.) If you know Cassel as kindly old Mr. Fischer from Rushmore, it's almost impossible at first to get your head around the idea of him as a virile swinger. But Cassel makes it work.

I appreciate the defenses of Cassavetes above. I can see where his influence is all over some of my favourite films--watching Faces, I was thinking of Goin' Down the Road especially. I can where he was a mentor to Scorsese. I guess I need all the things that Cassavetes leaves out of his films, starting with the idea that there's always a good time to cut a scene and move onto the next one.

Rowlands was on hand again tonight, and she got a standing ovation before the film. I don't begrudge her that.

I agree, Jacob. I had a great RTF professor who said that was the way to watch a film.

Cassel once came to present Cassavetes films at UT. After the movie a few of us got to hang out with him, had some drinks. All he did was talk about being at some porno awards show in Vegas the week before. I had a similar experience when I hung out with Jerry Cole. Disappointing at the time but in retrospect, fun nights nonetheless.

I thought Shadows held up pretty well, its handling of race especially. Cassavetes' improvisations are more on point than his scripted material. I really liked Lelia Goldoni, and when I started reading up on her later, I was surprised to find out that was her in Phil Kaufman's Body Snatchers remake. (She was also in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore--no recollection.)

I'm going to skip A Child Is Waiting and Too Late Blues, and stick to the '70s stuff. So I've got Husbands, Minnie and Moskowitz (which I now think I've seen), Chinese Bookie, and Elaine May's Mikey and Nicky left. Haven't made up my mind on Opening Night or Gloria.

This is an argument for another thread, but before the film, I heard a guy say to the curator that he thought Faces was "brutal" and "brilliant," and that he "could never watch it again." I see this guy at screenings all the time, and have heard him hold court before--yes, I've arrived at some thoroughly groundless opinions about him already. Anyway, I agree with two out of the three things I've quoted. But "brilliant" and "I could never watch it again" are incompatible to me. If I think something's brilliant, I want to see it again. If I don't want to see something again, there's no way I think it's brilliant. To me, that's just somebody who's afraid to question a film's reputation.

Kael's review of Husbands is brutal and, I'd say, spot on--she wrote that she would have kept cutting till she got it down to 20 minutes, and I'm not sure I'd keep much more. I agree with Joe way, way upthread that Cassavetes' endings are great. Ditto how he renders opening credits. In between, another ordeal. There was a young British actress right near the end who caught my eye--not the two from the first group of three, but the mod-looking girl in the second group of three. And, again, some of the location shooting had a great look. But whenever the three principals start up, it's like an SCTV parody of the Rat Pack directed by Warhol. We all got a free ticket because the sound went down for 10 minutes, so that was good.

It sounds like you're getting diminishing results with the man. Shouldn't you do a cost-benefit analysis and blow off the remaining screenings?

It seems crazy, I know...As I mentioned before, it's an education to see the blueprint for stuff that will later turn up in movies I love. I made it through Out 1 once, so as heavy lifting goes, Cassavetes is comparatively easy.

SCTV huh?

That's right, you're Canadian?

thought Faces was "brutal" and "brilliant," and that he "could never watch it again."

I wanted to watch it again right away. To each his own I guess.

It's very sad that someone like me who would die to watch these Cassavettes movies on the big screen, instead has to read someone else take the directors seat with him.

I know....

Yes, Canadian. Wanting to watch Facesright away again if you think it's brilliant makes perfect sense to me--it was the contradiction I didn't understand.

I like posting on certain things as I wade through them, but I do feel a little bad dumping on these films so relentlessly. I've tried to point out what I've liked, which admittedly is not much. JacobSanders has me feeling extra guilty! If it balances things out a bit, Rosemary's Baby is also part of the series, and that's one of my three favourite films ever.

is 'mikey and nicky' part of this series? definitely see that one if you haven't (i think elaine may did JC better than JC himself did)

Never been fond of Kael. I really liked how SCTV depicted film critics: The Farm Film Report, “Blow up real good.”

Love Rosemary's Baby, everything about it.

11:24 11:25

i like kael's writing but sometimes i resent the way her opinions have come to dominate certain types of film discussions.

cassavetes' performance in 'rosemary's baby' is amazing. it'd probably be in my top 20 movies, too.

I don't see how you can avoid reading her on Cassavetes; it's like overlooking Nabokov on Tolstoy or Austen, or James Wood on Joseph Roth.

He IS terrific in RB, all shifty-eyed narcissism.

i've never really read kael, & didn't know her at all before reading carney's cassavetes on cassavetes; i just came out with the impression that she was single-handedly responsible for the films' poor reception & p much for killing cassavetes

Strangely enough, Kael wrote about running into Cassavetes somewhere once, having him mock-strangle her or something and pick her up off the ground, and that she knew they'd be friends after that. I may be conflating the details with a Renoir story of hers.

Mickey and Nicky, Rosemary's Baby, and The Dirty Dozen are the three actor-only inclusions in the series. I wish they'd added The Fury, too.

Vaasa eyes, I mean Cassavetes and company picked her up off the ground and said "Love ya, Pauline!" is the version I heard

That first was spell check correction of his name

The Fury's greatness doesn't exactly lie in JC's performance.

He's very good in Rosemary's Baby, but you could say the same thing about his performance in that; I'd hardly put it first on my list of things I love about the film. His role is key in The Fury, and his Farm Film Report score (xpost) is off the chart.

It's like reading a critic writing about Cassavetes.

I liked him in the little seen Mazursky movie Tempest (Molly Ringwald's debut).

I got a hold of Johnny Staccato and love him in that short lived series.

...and yes, GREAT in the Tempest!

i was just gonna say he was good in tempest

Maybe it is finally time for this thread to take off: TS Seymour Cassel vs Lou Castel

I like Husbands OK, esp that Falk monologue that ends w/ "Badminton, that's a helluva game."

I thought of The Tempest too. I haven't seen it, but those five films would seem to have the acting end of it covered, Incubus notwithstanding. (When the three of them start shooting hoops in the gym, I got the definite feeling that Cassavetes and Falk were pretty decent players.)

Peter Falk is great in Husbands.

Am I the only one who sings "Panic In Detroit" with the words "looks a lot like Ben Gazzara"?

^^^ yes

Ben Gazzara and Debussy to a disco beat.

Never can figure out what the next line should be.

Chinese Bookie and Faces are probably my faves.

Cassavetes' improvisations are more on point than his scripted material.

We have have discussed this upthread but it's not true that Shadows was improvised. The title card that says so is pure self-mythologizing. I can't remember who said it but one of the actors was like "No way could I come up with lines like that on my own."

Bookie (Short Version), Opening Night and Love Streams are the ones I go back to most

Mikey and Nicky was impressive. I mean, not the third best film of the decade, which I think is where Stanley Kauffmann once ranked it, but for me it's been the best thing in the series so far. Parts of it felt cribbed from Mean Streets, but May supposedly wrote a version of the script as far back as 1954, so maybe not. Joyce Van Patten was great in her one scene as Nicky's wife. M. Emmet Walsh as the bus driver was amusing. Kind of amazing to think that it was directed by a woman in 1976. I've got to see A New Leaf.

A couple of more posts, and I will leave Cassavetes and this thread in peace. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie tonight, and I thought it was good. Slow, but without the interminable scenes and the occasional hysteria of some of the others. Good character study. I got the feeling that, after being battered around by Kael and Simon and some others, Gazzara was there as a surrogate for Cassavetes: beseiged on all sides, but trying to keep everything together and do right by his unorthodox extended family. Tim Carey was typically weird; Azizi Johari, whose name I shouldn't know but do, was good too, but enough about my bilious private life. James Quandt, who programs a lot of what the Cinematheque shows, was in front of us, and I heard him say this before the film started (I'm an inveterate eavesdropper): "I have a problem with his so-called purchase on reality." That killed me.

It's very sad that someone like me who would die to watch these Cassavettes movies on the big screen, instead has to read someone else take the directors seat with him.

I read that line earlier from JacobSanders, but quickly and didn't get the full gist of it. Good putdown, but...aren't you essentially taking the director's seat anytime you criticize a film? Earlier in the thread you wrote this: "But I am rarely critical of most films I watch. Film is the one medium I turn my brain off and just enjoy where the director wants to take me." I don't have a problem with anyone who feels that way, but the idea of just accepting whatever a director wants to give me is completely foreign to me.

i think too much has been made of cassavetes' "realism" without realizing the lengths he goes to to present a completely subjective emotional presentation ... the repetitions and tedium, the small, murmured lines and confessions, outbursts and epiphanies ... these define the shape of emotional life.

"present presentation" ... now I'm caught in it

Meant to say that Tim Carey's "opiates are the religion of the masses" is worthy of Norm Crosby.

I sort of contradicted myself with regards to stuff I wrote on another thread (Tree of Life?), where we got into the idea of "immersing" yourself in a film. To clarify: when I go into a film, it has to win me over before I start letting down my guard. How much I'm ready to "just enjoy where the director wants to take me," as JacobSanders wrote, is directionally proportional to how effectively it draws me in. So yes, if a film has completely drawn me in and I'm loving it, I'm sure my brain shuts down a little bit too, and I let stuff go that I'd question in a film I'm not enjoying.

Stayed for The Dirty Dozen last night, and thought the first half was terrific, before it got bogged down in the two big action set-pieces that were well executed but familiar. I was very happy that 17% of the Dozen was Greek.

I'm sorry Clemenza, that remark was unnecessary. I'm just not very critical of film as a whole. There are movies I lose interest in and don't like, but most often I like 90% of what I watch. I close my eyes during trailers so when I watch a movie I'll be surprised. I like surprises.

bunch of these expire on netflix streaming 8/3. just watched 'killing of a chinese bookie'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvhFsCpfrWw

XD

: )

absolutely love cassavetes despite all the "flaws"

!!!!!!

??????

I'm done--I won't have John Cassavetes to kick around anymore. No problem about your post, Jacob. I'm lucky I get to see so much where I am.

I held off posting till I saw my final two films: Minnie and Moskowitz, and today Opening Night. The first was tough. Rowlands was good, but it felt like two hours of Seymour Cassell yelling. He was a beacon of normalcy in the other films, so that was a surprise. I thought Opening Night was pretty good up till opening night--somewhat farfetched (wouldn't they have fired Rowlands fairly quickly?), but interesting and low-key like Chinese Bookie. And then it was nuts.

In the end, I'm going to think of him like Captain Beefheart. CB's music is not for me, but I'm aware of how much he influenced Wire and Sonic Youth and lots of stuff I do love. Ditto Cassavetes--his influence looking ahead was all over these films. Even in Opening Night, in the frenzy as they left the theatre early in the film, there was an shot--the girl placing her hands on the car window--that Scorsese copied exactly in King of Comedy.

but it felt like two hours of Seymour Cassell yelling.

haha i watched faces last night and i half liked it and half found it tortuous cuz it was 2 hrs of drunk ppl cackling @ stupid shit

shadows is great

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/4220045140_817548d6a0_o.jpg

Mikey and Nicky? (Cassavetes looks older than in Husbands.) I liked Shadows, and liked seeing Ben Carruthers turn up in The Dirty Dozen.

Just got done w/the "Johnny Staccato" complete series box--goddamn what a tv show! Kind of amazed it got made in '59-'60. Heavy noir influence, with a great feel for genre outer limits.

Brooklyn retro of the acting and directing:

http://www.bam.org/film/2013/cassavetes

saw the 108-minute cut of ...Chinese Bookie. Admired about a quarter of it. Cassavetes and I don't mix -- and I've tried.

try the Elaine May version!

Elaine May version?

i love that cassavetes' favorite director was frank capra.

Big Trouble playing this weekend in NYC. I'll finally cover the Falk-Arkin diptych.

Just read the Ray Carney BFI monograph on Shadows, after watching the movie for the first time. Carney confirms what Tracer Hand said way upthread and a lifetime ago, that the second, longer version (the one that's in circulation today) was almost entirely scripted, although the film did initially have its roots in an improvisation.

I like the fact that Cassavetes would constantly rework his movies, so that a number of them - Shadows, Chinese Bookie, Husbands - exist (or existed) in markedly different versions, because the films themselves often give off the sense that they're as much about process and play as they are about arriving at any kind of fixed, permanent statement or narrative. Flux cinema.

Big Trouble might be the worst movie I've ever seen by a director I otherwise love.

well even ppl who like it agree it's only partly "his"

http://www.avclub.com/article/my-year-of-flops-case-file-37-ibig-troublei-14928

Yale-pajamas!

last half hour of Big Trouble in partic is an unholy mess, but early peaks of Arkin's "sardine liqueur" take and Falk "heart attack" in drug store are LOL.

"Shadows" June 15th at Nat. gallery of Art in DC

Finally saw Love Streams.

I've undoubtedly had my expectations inflated by the years of the film's inaccessibility and its status as the last real Cassavetes film, going into this unable to accept anything less than an flat-out masterpiece. The shift towards surrealism in the final act were startling, to say the least, but I'm not sure how successful they are--Rowlands's joke-shop pranks on her family are every bit as hilarious/sad/unhinged as her on-stage breakdown from Opening Night, but the ballet sequence feels like a bit of an overreach, and the dog/man bit towards the very end (an in-joke stemming from the director's staging of the source play, the Criterion essay informs) is a bit of Bunelian whimsy that doesn't quite work. Other attempts at symbolism are outright ham fisted--Rowlands literally travelling around with too much baggage feels like a rookie's touch, not a veteran's. I also thought Cassavetes offering his eight-year-old son a beer put too fine a point on the scuzziness of the character; his later abandonment of the child in a Vegas hotel room felt more like something the character would do (negligence, rather than willful corruption).

There's still a lot that's great here, though: I think Rowlands was supported by stronger scripts in both A Woman Under the Influence and Opening Night, but no one ever offered her better roles than her husband (Minnie and Moskowitz needs to become available next), and any moment she's on screen here is captivating. The minor character of the lounge singer's mother was a nice touch; I don't know that Cassavetes's work was intended as a diagnosis own generation as broken and rudderless, but the occasional inability of his characters to comprehend the ambitions and responsibilities of of the younger generation emerges as a subtle thread (see also, Faces). The presence of children in the film--one unwanted by his parent, another rejecting the emotional neediness of hers--probably alludes to enough of a backstory for the two main characters that we don't need the script to fill in the details of how they got to where they are.

OK, I'm liking the film better already...

Minnie and Moskowitz is available as a Region 2 DVD:

http://www.mrbongo.com/products/minnie-moskowitz-1971

nice review, crypto. I watched the Criterion edition. The continuity in places is still baffling, and in eight places out of ten Cassavetes will put the camera in the wrong spot.

Thanks!

The film has been lingering in my mind quite a bit since I watched it last week, my initial objections feeling less and less relevant.

I'm still thinking about it

Those kids in Love Streams are pretty terrible actors.

Late JC just makes me think of that story of Bette Davis stomping out of a Broadway rehearsal of Night of the Iguana, screaming "I'm sick of this Method SHIT!"

what is the point of that ballet/opera dream sequence, when the camera is miles away from anything interesting?

I was unsurprised to learn that JC threw out the last third of the play script... a shame he didn't replace it with anything, perhaps.

(Diahnne Abbott looking lovely in the CC supplementary interview btw)

Lots of LS is pretty terrible.

love streams is really hard to get through, but im glad he made it. godbless cannon films.

the kid slamming his head against the door til it bleeds!

i think minnie and moskowitz is a really special, magical film. wish it was held in better regard. also his son stole a lot of it for the notebook!

Trying to to reconcile the first and last halves of that post.

he stole it from a notebook -- presto!

ok i was being hyperbolic when i said he "stole" a lot of it, but in a way the notebook can be looked at as the story of john and gena and so can m & m.

Saw Gloria for the first time, beautiful 35mm print (intro'd by the guy who wrote that City on Fire novel). Great Rowlands, and goofy genre wears better than the late-era endless improv stuff of Love Streams et al.

Lots of NYC street scene madeleines from the summer of '79, oh man.

Garth Risk Hallberg suggested after the screening that Gena's squalling 6-year-old co-star could've been an inspiration for the dancing dwarf of Twin Peaks.

http://www.filmlinc.org/page/-/uploads/comment/archives2010/marapr/gloria.png

i do not enjoy gloria.

Haven't seen this one either. Figure its gotta be better than Big Trouble, though.

just saw The Killing of a Chinese Bookie and when I was walking out of the theater I heard some guy say "it was great...I gave up on following the plot, though."

...

entirely fair assessment

sorry, he said "i gave up on trying to follow the plot." dude it's the title of the movie

it was the 108 minute cut... i'd like to see the longer one, what are the differences besides the strip club routines?

i don't know bcz i think i've only seen the extended (original) one.

Andrew Bujalski seems surrealism in Opening Night

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/5876-john-cassavetes-underrated-surrealist

i watched "minnie & moskowitz" having never seen another cassevetes(-directed) movie before. i think i enjoyed it but also had one of those "the past is a foreign country" things that i sometimes have with '70s independent movies where not only are the decor and fashion and street scenes so different from how things are now, the people don't behave or talk like any person i've ever met. from what i know about cassavetes movies, the constant yelling and anger and fucked-up relationships seem to be more about him than about actual human behavior, i'm guessing? anyways, the acting was all good, i loved the bit with timothy carey accosting cassel in the diner near the beginning and the monologue by the loser who takes gena on the lunch date, and the scene near the end with the two moms was funny.

I think two things are simultaneously true: 1. people talked differently in the '70s and 2. the way people confront each other and the general rhythm of human interactions in Cassavetes films is very much a product of JC's imagination.

That Dick Cavett Show segment when he goes on to promote Husbands with Gazzara and Falk seems to me like JC attempting to bring a little of his movie reality into actual reality (or whatever you call a TV talk show). And the results are kind of awkward.

I just noticed Mazursky's Tempest in on Criterion.. I might check it out tonite, it's been years since I've seen it

Haven't seen M&M yet (soon), but I did just watch Martin Ritt's Edge of the City, with JC and Sidney Poitier in a mildly homoerotic spin on On the Waterfront. On Criterion til the end of the month, and recommended.

Tempest is a time capsule, man.

the constant yelling

That just overwhelmed everything else in Minnie & Moskowitz for me--if there was anything good in there, it was drowned out by the constant yelling.

The constant yelling in M&M vs the constant laughing in Faces

Well, Tempest was a bloated, aimless mess but still a pretty fun watch. I thought I'd seen it before and remembered it all being on the Greek island, but at least half of it is in NYC and Atlantic City. Acting is great, but as a romantic comedy it fails on both fronts, so I'm not sure how to classify it.
A film that cost $13 million and did $5 million at the box office, and you can see why.

there was almost as much yelling as laughing in Faces

and no acting

:)

I prefer Bugs Bunny’s performance of “I Dream of Jeannie with the Light Brown Hair.”

Go watch Deathdream if you'd like to see the lead husband + wife play husband + wife in a much better movie.

I thought Shadows and Too Late Blues were really interesting snapshots of the late 50s-early 60s. but have not been sure I've liked Cassavetes’ films in general

thought Husbands was a real improvement in cinematography from his earlier films, but there is just so much toxic masculinity in it that it is repulsive to me

“You’re inscrutable!”

I think I'd find those characters just as exhausting if they were having an enlightened discussion on The Female Eunuch.

from the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually still alive:

Saw a Happy Birthday Mom from Zoe Cassavetes on Twitter recently, and lo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gena_Rowlands Didn't know she was active that long, or that she was in 10 of John's movies (or possibly problematic re some of them later)

― dow, Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:33 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

was thinking of her anyway, having seen her four Alfred Hitchcock performances, one on Presents, three on Hour.

― dow, Sunday, June 20, 2021 Wonder if she did any harm w changes in those JC prints? I always enjoy her acting anyway.

even A Woman Under the Influence was hard going

Minnie and Moskowitz falls a little short of being among my very favourite Cassavetes films, but it may be his funniest.

Machine Gun McCain - Cassavettes, Falk and Rowlands cashing those sweet sweet paychecks for an Italian director (the guy who did Sacco & Vanzetti, so most likely a paycheck job for him as well.) Still, the scenes filmed in Las Vegas have a tourist's eagerness to capture everything - you get to see billboards advertising who was in town at the time - and the Morricone score is reliably excellent.

from the wiki bio of Gena I linked above---wonder if her alleged interference makes significant difference in those extant editions:
Cassavetes era (1963–1984)
Rowlands and Cassavetes made ten films together: A Child Is Waiting (1963), Faces (1968), Machine Gun McCain (1969), Minnie and Moskowitz (1971), A Woman Under the Influence (1974; nomination for Academy Award for Best Actress), Two-Minute Warning (1976), Opening Night (1977), Gloria (1980; nomination for Academy Award for Best Actress), Tempest (1982), and Love Streams (1984).[11]

According to Boston University film scholar Ray Carney, Rowlands sought to suppress an early version of Cassavetes's first film, Shadows, that Carney says he rediscovered after decades of searching.[12] Rowlands also became involved in the screenings of Husbands and Love Streams, according to Carney. The UCLA Film and Television Archive mounted a restoration of Husbands, as it was pruned down (without Cassavetes's consent, and in violation of his contract) by Columbia Pictures several months after its release, in an attempt to restore as much of the removed content as possible. At Rowlands's request, UCLA created an alternative print with almost ten minutes of content edited out, as Rowlands felt that these scenes were in poor taste. The alternative print is the only one that has been made available for rental.[13]

even in the alternative print I thought a lot of scenes in Husbands were in poor taste

watched The Killing of a Chinese Bookie today

from Pillip Lopate’s Criterion essay 8 years ago:

“In 1976, when The Killing of a Chinese Bookie was first released, it bombed at the box office, much to Cassavetes’s disappointment. Critics found it disorganized, self-indulgent, and unfathomable; audiences took their word for it and stayed away. Today, the film seems a model of narrative clarity and lucidity; either our eyes have caught up to Cassavetes or the reigning aesthetic has evolved steadily in the direction of his personal cinematic style. Now we are more accustomed to hanging out and listening in on the comic banality of low-life small talk; to a semidocumentary, handheld-camera, ambient-sound approach; to morally divided or not entirely sympathetic characters, dollops of “dead time,” and subversions of traditional genre expectations.”

I don’t know about it being a model of narrative clarity and lucidity, and it is very rough and somewhat off-putting like all of his films, but I thought it was interesting.

looking back on all of the films of his I've seen in the past year or so, Opening Night had the theatricality and some of the toxic male aura of his other films, but it softened his edges somewhat and was funny and memorable

My-favorite.

I watched A Child is Waiting on TCM three nights ago. What a stiff, compromised, often affecting film.

A Stanley Kramer Production!

A Stanley Kramer Interference!

"This is in-canon for the Cassavetes Cinematic Universe."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ktf6w-pCE

Wow, that dance just keeps on going, doesn't it

that's nuts.. also the Easter Bunny cops a feel on Adrienne Barbeau

A welcome reprieve from Marty Allen no doubt

"... but some people can't dance.. because they're handicapped."

that would never fly today

^^Trump would say it.

i've never read any books by or about JC; is ray carney's "cassavetes on cassavetes" a good place to start? any other book recs welcome

also i missed that gena rowlands passed last month :(

Gena Rowlands sits next to Bette Davis, Isabelle Adjani and Fatma Mohamed, in my pantheon of the greatest actors. I been watching a lot of Cassavetes these past two weeks, he’s terrific. I saw them all when I was young but I’m enjoying them even more as an adult

How has Cassavetes punching Reagan in The Killers ('64) not been memed yet?

boy, that brings back a 90s memory of rewinding a videotape repeatedly and longing for something that became known as memes.