Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/03/31/mad-men-three-seasons/

'Mad Men' is a done deal! AMC drama is renewed with Matthew Weiner on board
by James Hibberd
Categories: Mad Men, Television, TV Biz

Don Draper might make it to the 1970s after all. After a protracted standoff, AMC, Lionsgate and Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner have reached an agreement for seasons five and six of the Emmy-winning drama.

Weiner, who will return as showrunner, has also signed a new long-term deal with Lionsgate. As a result of the negotiations, however, season five isn’t expected to air until March of next year.

Weiner signed a deal that’s worth about $10 million per year. The creator compromised slightly on issue of the show’s running time, agreeing to the show running two minutes shorter in all epiosdes (45 minutes) when on AMC except the fifth season’s premiere and finale (47) — with an option for Weiner to turn in 47-minute episodes for other platforms like VOD and DVD. The main cast is signed on for two more season and no more cuts are expected there.

The deal was originally supposed to be for three seasons, but the cast isn’t yet signed for a seventh season so that’s being tabled for the time being. But everybody thinks that now that Weiner is on board, a seventh season will happen. Weiner is also telling media outlets that the seventh season will be the final one for the show.

“I want to thank all of our wonderful fans for their support,” Weiner said in a statement. “I also want to thank AMC and Lionsgate for agreeing to support the artistic freedom of myself, the cast and the crew so that we can continue to make the show exactly as we have from the beginning. I’m excited to get started on the next chapter of our story.”

“AMC’s original programming began with a mission to create bold storytelling of the highest quality, and Mad Men was the perfect expression of that commitment,” Charlie Collier, president of AMC, said in a statement. “We’ve been proud to support this show from the day we read Matt’s ground-breaking pilot script and have loved building it with Matt and Lionsgate into the cultural phenomenon it has become. For everyone involved in the show and its passionate fans, we are thrilled to announce that the series will continue on AMC under the exceptional vision of Matt Weiner.”

Keep sleeping, Peggy and Don. You won't be back on until next year.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8nrxqzCNl1qzzl73o1_500.jpg

shit, that's a while. are there other examples of tv shows w/ prolonged waits like this? do they do anything in regards of plot to compensate for how much they expect their audience to forget things?

I never watched the Sopranos, but wasn't there a crazy long delay between two seasons once? And then they split the season in two parts? My recollection is hazy.

yeah, there was at least a year and a half. same with The Wire, actually.

Hmmm, seven seasons might be a bit much.

all shows should end at 5 seasons

will people really forget more in the extra 5 months or whatever? i gues they expect everyone to buy the dvds and re-watch the season.

they always seem to show the previous season in reruns prior to the start of the new season.

I've been waiting since I heard that the show was only supposed to last five seasons, I was going to ride out the network run until it was over and watch through Netflix. Now that it's running for seven seasons I'm not so sure that I care because shows tend to dip in quality after S5 anyway.

I've completely forgotten what happened in those four seasons

thank goodness its all on netflix streaming now

i just started watching on netflix. can you get cancer from watching people smoke all the time? i wish it focussed more on advertising and less on sex and smoking. not sure it's worth watching episode 3. women will be treated poorly, men will smoke inside and race relations will be tense. please tell me those themes aren't the main themes for the rest of the show.

no, there's also the terrible parenting theme!

oh yeah, episode 2 some little girl is playing in a plastic bag. there's too many good shows to devote 50 more hours to this.

okay!

You're shaking my foundations brotherlovesdub

I am pretty sure that I have never known anyone who watched, say, all of season 1 of Mad Men and then lost interest. People either find it deeply unpleasant based on the first couple episodes, or they are fans.

they do tone down the lol 60s stuff after a while

except for like the times when they just pander to it, gloriously

brotherlovesdub: Virtually every mad men thread ever is peppered with new watchers coming in and (justifiably) complaining about the lol60s shit. That stuff goes away, though, so stick it out until the end of the season and see how you feel. It's a great drama. You won't be disappointed. There really aren't many shows better than this at the moment.

I've completely forgotten what happened in those four seasons

ad agency, marital infidelity, father hits his grown son with a cane iirc

Yeah, i meant what gubke said

lol I totally forgot about the cane

gets way better after the first few episodes. then season 2 drags a bit. then it gets all time great TV for seasons 3 and 4 imo.

Just watched episode three. Think I'll keep going. I just want the women to triumph over the men and for Draper to get killed/humiliated/die of cancer. I guess he's the star so that won't happen. He's scum though. Guess I should check out the other Mad Men threads.

I am pretty sure that I have never known anyone who watched, say, all of season 1 of Mad Men and then lost interest. People either find it deeply unpleasant based on the first couple episodes, or they are fans.

I watched the first 3 seasons and 2-3 episodes of the 4th season and then lost interest

haha yeah was just going to post that i checked out somewhere around the middle of season 3

idk why im reading this either but yknow

yeah I mean I don't hateee mad men...I like the *idea*, I like the lol60s shit...but it's just toooooo slowwwww and repetitive for me and I realized I was pretty much forcing myself to sit through every new episode.

anyway I have no interest in trolling this thread.

Season three is the worst one IMO. Loved season four.

But to any newbies: When I started watching I thought it was merely interesting until about halfway through the first season, then I realised I love it. Persevere, watch it in order, it's a slow burner.

i find myself thinking of that NYRB crit of it whenever i think of this recently, maybe because it charged the show with being soap opera-ish & i have reduced don draper to being a moody, glowering, tall dark handsome soap opera figure

i like this show but i kind of dont miss it

good riddance to agreeable television drama

Man, Sally is going to look like she's 20 when it comes on again.

Well, they've already had her masturbating, so she is growing up. S5 is shooting now, right?

yep.

Since season 4 was 1964-65, I would think season 5 should be around 1967-68...?

i would've thought they'd try to go a little slower than that, but that's not based on/might be contrary to whatever's been customary until now. like i woulda thought 66/67. it depends how long the guy envisions it living on for i guess?

I missed one episode last season, the one where don and peggy get drunk together. My gf summed it up for me at the time so I was able to watch the rest of the eps during the season, and when I watched it for the first time a few days ago, it was alright, like I could see that the only reason I really watched all the eps was momentum

I met weiner once at the beverly hills hotel, kinda surreal because I was lost and out on the pool deck area when it happened

Season three is the worst one IMO. Loved season four.

wth

xp feel free to post that in the posts w/o context thread

this show is pretty great when you can watch 2-3 eps at a time and pretty excruciating on a week to week basis. like, the story arc to season 4 is pretty good (if maddening and depressing) but also pretty annoying when its coming in drips and drabs.

I missed one episode last season, the one where don and peggy get drunk together. My gf summed it up for me at the time so I was able to watch the rest of the eps during the season, and when I watched it for the first time a few days ago, it was alright, like I could see that the only reason I really watched all the eps was momentum

I know what you mean about momentum, but I also think "The Suitcase" was the best episode of the season!

^ yeah, all-time ep right there

it was a really good episode compared to other eps, and I liked it somewhat, and thought there were brilliant parts with brilliant bits of acting, but a lot of the episode, perhaps more than others, I don't know at this point because I haven't seen the show in a while, was don yelling at peggy for work related reasons, and when I was watching it, I guess, because I was removed from the mad men world, I couldn't help but think that I was glad I wasn't exposed to its world as much

i saw a little girl out to dinner with her family at a mexican restaurant last week that was a dead-ringer for sally. it was so uncanny i almost said something to the parents but i told myself to forget it and finish my nachos.

"hey uh I dunno if you know this but your daughter looks a lot like a child star that some nerds on the internet really can't wait to see grow up into a teenager!"

yeah nachos was probably the better move

FYI I recommend that everyone into this show watch the movie version of "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" with Robert Morse

LOL

hahahahaha

hahaha burn

FYI I recommend that everyone into this show watch the movie version of "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" with Robert Morse

Yeah, the parallels are pretty funny. Morse is great in The Loved One too. Mad Men also reminds me of The Sweet Smell of Success.

predictions on the degree to which dialogue this season will be "on the nose"?

I loved it when Mad Men referenced The Apartment (season and episode escapes me). In season four Roger is on the phone speaking to a Louise about a Larry...the Tate's no doubt, finally acknowledging the comparison's to Bewitched.

Sorry about that pesky apostrophe.....blush.

The Apartment ref was in the first season, near the end I think. Joan was chewing Roger out about using women and told him he should see the movie and change his tune.

...and to complete the circle, David White played both Mr. Tate on "Bewitched" and Mr. Eichelberger in The Apartment.

But to any newbies: When I started watching I thought it was merely interesting until about halfway through the first season, then I realised I love it. Persevere, watch it in order, it's a slow burner.

Yeah, this is pretty much my experience too. Basically I was watching it to bask in the glory of Joan and gradually got into the surrounding plotlines.

R u one of those ppl who sits around watching AMC dramas all nite, tweeting abt how AMAZEBALLS they are?

Walked by a Banana Republic tonight. The big poster in the window asked me if I am a Betty.

Well?

I don't really think there's an answer. I think the significance is in asking the question.

uch, you're such a Betty.

Keep getting BR MM collection ads in my FB feed ATM.

That's a lot of abbreviations.

Do they have a "Are You A Pete?" poster

Banana republic really on the cutting edge with this mad men collection

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=66393

So when does this actually start?

via wiki: "The fifth season is scheduled to premiere on March 16, 2012."

crap, I was hoping it was sooner :(

can't wait! i don't remember exactly when it's supposed to start, but sometime this Spring, right? if only there was an internet to help determine the answer!

march 2012, sez some place on the internet

I can wait. I think.

SPOILER i hear don draper broods a lot next season SPOILER

read "breeds" at first

It has been off the air so long that I barely remember what even happened last season. It's hard to get excited about it.

^^^

I assume this season will begin in 1975, it feels like they've been gone so long

im sorta not looking forward to this. so sick of don and his bullshit. would be really excited if the next season was peggy-only

I'm hoping for a mid-70s setting. I feel like anything 1966-1969 will have inevitable stretches of crushing predictability.

(cue "White Rabbit")

it'll be awesome, i'm pretty sure, but yeah, i'm not exactly salivating. it seemed to end on a queasy, foreboding 'happy ending' for don, and i'm not desperate to see the whole miserable second marriage unravel.

eh when it comes back he'll be divorced again already. and it'll be the year 2030.

i wonder if he's quit smoking...

march 25.

Enough time to rewatch S4.

season premiere will be two hours!

Jesus. Not sure how I feel about that.

me neither, but i will watch every last minute of it.

no skip the last minute

The last minute will obviously be Don looking out of a window with a deeply furrowed brow.

It's still my theory that the show's focus will shift from Don to Peggy by the end of its run, so I'm expecting that to really begin happening this season. *crosses fingers*

the first 45 minutes will a recap of the last 4 seasons because everyone forgot

last time on Mad Men

"wow don congratulations on your wedding. who is your bride?"

"oh uh. i forget her name"

It's still my theory that the show's focus will shift from Don to Peggy by the end of its run, so I'm expecting that to really begin happening this season. *crosses fingers*

― Johnny Fever, Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:04 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...I see so little reason for this..??

cos Don is super boring

for us, maybe. for so much of the rest of the viewing public that watches this show it almost needs a personal qualifier on my part that he's the main dig.

i love don.

http://cdn.wg.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/crying-draper.jpg

i don't know. i just find *any* of the characters as continually interesting as don, even if he is predictable. i'm sort of past the point of being fascinated by don's actions and more look to how shit will all end up for him. i know he's gonna continually make some bad choices, and i think the writers here are smart enough - e.g., not 19yr old creative writing class depravists - that they wouldn't end the series on some woefully awful note, like him offing himself or whatevs. i don't know. at least i'd like to think it's beyond that.

the series should end with don faking his death and subsequently wandering the earth helping people out & going on adventures. kinda like the hulk. "you wouldn't like me when i'm...mad"

amc confirmed that s5 is set in may 2003

it follows don and peggy's grandchildren as they team up to solve mysteries

I think the gap has been too long for me. I tried reading episode summaries of the last series and had to think far too much to remind myself who some of the characters were.

Is there a reason why the gap has been soooo long?

some of the sopranos gaps were this long

Don't really understand how this level of ennui has set in really. Still looking forward to this.

i don't think the ennui is entirely from the gap between seasons but more from how lethargic + disappointing the last season was

Perhaps we're due for another good one (1, 3, 5...)

S4 > S3.

I really liked the last season. Certainly better than 3.

It was probably the funniest season, for a start.

Which had the lawnmower and which had the dead assistant?

The breakdown of Don & Betty's marriage was kind of necessary but until it actually happened it was making for some pretty slow, dull and miserable TV. S3 only really hit its stride in the last two or three episodes, before that there didn't seem to be much actually happening.

S4 had some badly-cast characters but was way better paced plotwise, and had that amazing Don and Peggy episode. Also it brought the lols.

Maybe I'm confusing the whole of S3 with the very end of S3 (which was great). I agree that S4 was enjoyable for the most part, but I'm a nerd and look for number-related trends. :)

i think S3 had the marriage ending and the lawn mower and the JFK assassination and the gang getting back together to start the new company right? that was jampacked with goodness. S4 had... Betty's new husband? Don dating that secretary? Uh - lots of Don being depressed? And the one suitcase episode w/ Peggy. (Oh, and also Peggy peeking over the wall.)

Yeah, I remember S3 with much more fondness than S4.

i think S3 had the marriage ending and the lawn mower and the JFK assassination and the gang getting back together to start the new company right?

Pretty much all in the last two episodes.

Sal also got fired in S3.

S3 was also when Joan left to get married, and Pete found her working at a department store.

Also: Peggy fucks Duck.

The last episode of S3 is terrific.

Also Re:Sal & S3-The episode where he and Don go to Baltimore and Don discovers Sal's secret.

This episode also pretty much invented "Pan Am" on ABC.

Also, um, Don finally comes clean to Betty about Dick Whitman.

Imma have to watch S3 again.

^^ I don't think there has been a series before that I have loved but that I keep forgetting the plotlines of. Feel like I have to rewatch the whole series

starting next week i am rewatching all four seasons with my housemate (who has never seen it). interesting times.

lotta first world problems itt

well, the show's about ad execs

"Saturday Review Whites"-Whiney's Grandpa

don sucks

more joan and peggy getting along

^^^^

Slightly weirded out to realise that Pete and Peggy will only be in their early-to-mid-40s by the time the 80s kick in, conceivably still working in agencies with Reagan in the White House.

(And amoral dicks like Don Draper running the world by that point obviously)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P9dnbByZkw8/TxVzH1gNAKI/AAAAAAAAQZc/TYKIEFgmohM/s1600/MadMenTeaser.jpg

that is perfect

S3 > S4 for sure, the workplace/home-life balance was way out of whack for a lot of the latter for me.

love the phone both!

*booth

there are still phone booths?

they're mainly hobo porty-pottys these days, but yes.

*porto

can't wait for don to jump off that roof xD

nah it's gonna be Roger who jumps off the roof, still think Don has a chance to get right with the tao.

We all obviously want Don Draper to die and the series to end, because we all hate it, and that's we post on this thread.

stfu.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyob7sa99v1qz6f9yo1_500.jpg

hah!

hahaha

i sent that pic to a coworker who is a fan of the show. his reply:

What a great picture!

I wonder what the significance of the whale shooting the mad man out of the water is about?

A fish out of water?? Maybe the culture change of the late 60’s is coming around…

LOL

s4 finally came back on On Demand, I had forgotten most of this

i finally bought s4 -- found it for dirt cheap at a blockbuster liquidation sale.

rewatching Season 4... Honda scooter episode is so perfect.

^^the shot of Peggy riding around the empty studio is one of my fave images from the show.

also her peeking over the partition at Don

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mgziEjHIibk/TzojtiPY_FI/AAAAAAAABJc/yhCp2IoLIG4/s307/tumblr_l7l3nt2imn1qa2osao1_400.gif

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uIN0xGgtkss/Tzojqurjv4I/AAAAAAAABJU/EJLB6pnKSEE/s400/2rdxfmt.gif

I've also been rewatching S4 - the episode where Don goes down to California and no one has told Anna that she's dying is heartbreaking. And then you get Don and Laine going out and getting slaughtered as well. Genuinely don't understand why anyone thinks that series was a drop-off in quality.

yeah I am noticing lots of little things, foreshadowing/nuances. Like there's a bit in the episode where Pete finds out Trudy is pregnant and Laine's telling him he has to ditch his father-in-law's account - Laine is kind of a dick to Pete re: fatherhood and "manning up", as it were, which is laden with irony given Laine's relationship with his own father as revealed in a later episode.

oh man, "the cure for the common ____" episode

So we're 3 whole weeks away from the premiere and somebody hacked Christina Hendricks' phone and thrown out some NSFW images onto the internets...

(find them yrselves)

They weren't really that scandalous.

pix more adorbs than scandalous imo

tho obviously is terrible that (most likely) someone violated her trust

http://i.imgur.com/EzZER.jpg

great, now we gotta NSFW this thread.

^^forks that counts as a request for title change

clean those dons up jesus

Hallway-and-glasses one is adorable!

damn girl

her body is incredible!

I'd believe her statements that the only picture "leaked" that actually shows nudity is not her

peggy!

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20120308/images/features/madwoman/elisabeth_moss1.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20120308/Mad+Woman+Bad+Girl

*spoiler alert*

One-upping Joan...

I was not at all expecting that first link to be a picture like that and I'm in shock now

She's cheery, funny and sincere-any girl would long to be her BFF (and ask if she's down for trading outfits).

*barf*

and just wait until she starts telling you about her friend xenu...

"One of the greatest things I heard someone say about him [Fred Armisen] is, 'He's so great at doing impersonations. But the greatest impersonation he does is that of a normal person.' To me, that sums it up."

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzjy4lgo6b1qa9hsto1_500.gif

i have no love for fred armisen, but E.M. has a bit of a credibility problem: she's a scient0logist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/arts/television/matthew-weiner-is-silent-on-mad-men-season-premiere.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&ref=arts

Fun David Chase quote in this piece:

"‘Seinfeld,’ they ended it with them all going to jail. Now that’s the ending we should have had. And they should have had ours, where it blacked out in a diner.”

i have no love for fred armisen, but E.M. has a bit of a credibility problem: she's a scient0logist.

I agree, but I can always appreciate a good burn.

She's a Hollywood scientologist-by-birth I think, so maybe less damaging to her credibility.

pretty sure you can switch up once you hit puberty?

as with anything really

i can't quit u tho s1ocki

please try

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4f57cf0b6bb3f7f240000080-578-491/sterling-scooper-mad-men-ice-cream.jpg

If this is really I am buying it. Vodka + ice cream = yum

I meant, if this is real.

The alcohol in vodka wouldn't freeze at normal freezer temps and the ice cream would be runny

signed, the guy who would pour bacardi over mint chocolate chip ice cream

how do you explain rum raisin then?

The raisins aren't completely frozen and are embedded in frozen ice cream?

yeah but you still put some rum in too. It does make it harder to freeze but it is possible

they couldn't sell it if there was so much alcohol that it would prevent freezing. the alcohol must cooked off at some point.

well yeah, you're not gonna get drunk off it

A real Mad men-themed ice cream would

guys they're flavors

of ice cream

does this ever start?

The series in general? Sort of yes, sort of no.

relieved that Bert's in the promo pics for S5. was gonna be bummed if he'd been written out.

some spoilers here but nothing that drastic/unexpected:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/mad-men-returns-in-living-color/2012/03/18/gIQAO2rmTS_story.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5mZey1iXw

Pretty cool, the best bit imo is the intro recreation.

Now the black people are protesting outside, as if threatening to become actual characters. I see go-go boots and shorter skirts and blocks of trippy color. I see the first hint of plumage on the men. Don and Megan’s new high-rise apartment is a splash of white carpet and zebra-striped pillows. It’s like their world is about to burst, as we’ve always known it must. This updated “Mad Men” is a mind-blowing retrogasm.

It's like when you watched the Beatles Anthology for the first time and halfway through everything started being in color.

if any of u are canadian you can do this on premiere night:

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2012/03/23/jessica-pare-festival-mad-men-vs-sorry-rabbi/

I get the CBC, yay!

:)

what a promotional coup!

would watch (if i had CBC)

I honestly feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have it, because watching hockey would be a pitiful affair without it.

Ya pretty sure CBC planned it that way!

woah thats awesome s1ocks!!

lol, they changed the photo that originally accompanied the piece to a much better one

CBUT but no CBC here ;_;

more like jessica parve, mirit

I'm a sucker for demanding girlfriends

JP took exception to that description on my FB haha

can I be fb friends with you to see this s1ocki, it is important for my personal development

does itunes put up MM eps right away?

I think it's usually within 24 hours, but there have been weird exceptions

i wanna host a screening party on sunday night but i dont have cable is the thing

Yeah, I think you're probably out of luck on that unless they do something odd about the digital release schedule or if someone has pirated and uploaded the preview copy.

hoping for the latter :D

do you have any neighbors with cable? bribe them with snacks to run a really long cable from their place to yours for a couple hours.

nabes with cabes

egad it's almost here!

get psyched
http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/video-essay-its-a-mad-world-a-mad-men-tribute-by-serena-bramble

has anyone done a recap of last season done entirely in gifs

yes:

http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/PeggyRider-ONE-2.gif

otm

I love this show.

kvelling @ alison brie's dress:

http://weblogs.variety.com/.a/6a00d8341bfc7553ef01630345ae60970d-pi

I wonder how much of MM's popularity rested on early 60s fashion (more than one'd think, I expect), and how damaged that popularity will be by late 60s fashion (which I feel like is relatively hideous to most modern eyes).

I wonder how many critics will be like "They're overdoing crazy late 60s styles!" cuz it's almost hard to believe how weirdly people actually started dressing

I wonder a lot of things haha

banana republic might have some trouble selling/marketing the 1966 stuff to its target audience. although it'll do fine in other places that don't capitalize on drabness.

I wonder how much of MM's popularity rested on early 60s fashion (more than one'd think, I expect), and how damaged that popularity will be by late 60s fashion (which I feel like is relatively hideous to most modern eyes).

suspect that the major & cooler characters will stay a step or two behind the times in this regard

btw, http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cxx_rNVC9gw/Tg8wXW_0xSI/AAAAAAAAAC8/povV1mtmbUQ/s1600/The+Excited+Classy+Lady.jpg

For Mad Men we made turkey meatballs with quinoa with a yogurt sauce with roasted squash!

10 more minutes and then BOOM, to the DVR!

We're doing the same, waiting till it has recorded and then playing it so we can skip ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFOzG3GYqo

The scene between Harry and Roger ftw.

"We can have the conversation you thought we were having."

"So will this be every month, or..."

Lolling at Megan's Québécois swearing.

the baby wipe scene was some seriously lol-trolling. took me a clear couple seconds to decipher the image, half in horror that my tv had actually been hacked and i was reliving goatse all over again.

WHen did Don tell Megan about Dick??

scene with roger and harry had me rollin'

-Joan and her mother getting on each other's nerves, maybe my favorite thing about the whole Ep... Sooooooo perfect. Every tiny little jab and raised eyebrow, mwah

- is Megan going to go crazytown, or am I projecting?

- Pete's plaid jacket at the party was outstanding.

SHHH! it's just starting on the west coast...

t-minus how long until we figure out megan is not who she says she is?

Why do you think Megan will go nuts? Wondering if she will fall more and more into the scene.

http:✧✧✧.gifb✧✧✧.com/medias/df7c1fd31c5d433eadfcdb131ad70✧✧✧@2✧.g✧✧

I don't think there is anything wrong with her. Maybe normal for the times.

where's a gif of that look pete gave roger sterling..

i think something's up with megan. they said she was an actress, is she really french canadian?

This show.

So glad this is back. Nothing like watching 2 hours of television where almost nothing in particular happens.

guys real talk all the black applicants with dusty springfield playing had me trying to figure out wtf was going on and sending me into major film theory conniption fits

also rape sex is my favorite plot device

*consensual

is now when we start complaining about things being "on the nose"?

*consensual

― Johnny Fever, Monday, March 26, 2012 1:42 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You clearly have never had rape sex in the way i phrased it if you have to qualify it.

I have no problem with that burn.

Also that was Kimmy Robertson, right?

I watched the first season and never got around to the rest. Do I really need to watch three seasons or can I just jump in to S5?

You could probably get away with skipping season 2. But watch them all honestly. It'd be like skipping to the middle of Infinite Jest or something.

alternately, you could stare at a glass of whiskey in low light for a couple hours

while thinking about boobs

dangerously close to something I'd do w/o Mad Men tbh

let me rephrase: I can start Justified or Breaking Bad from the beginning, or Mad Men from S2 on - which do I do?

Justified is great, but not in the league of Mad Men or Breaking Bad imo. I think I slightly prefer MM to BB, but it could go either way. As the final season of Breaking Bad (broken up into two parts, mind) starts airing this year, you should probably go with that one. Mad Men has another two years after this one for you to catch up.

"You're all so cynical. You don't smile, you smirk."

[whistles nonchalantly while examining the ceiling]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1h5gn8qy21qk63xoo1_r1_500.gif

banana republic might have some trouble selling/marketing the 1966 stuff to its target audience. although it'll do fine in other places that don't capitalize on drabness.

Fwiw I would totally buy Joan's dress in this episode.

pete's old office is very telegenic. harry doesn't deserve those blue walls and that cool furniture.

milo - at least start with season 3 of mad men which is the best to date. don't skip it. (i don't think skipping first two seasons is as big a deal.)

Harry giving Don the silver-tipped walking cane.
"Don Ameche has one!"

lolololol

Honestly it took me a while to get used to the nothing-happening/significant glances thing after so long away.

And there were a couple of times where I was like, TWO HOURS of this? Really?

I love the show but jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez louise.

This episode was hilarious!

I loved how funny it was, I wasn't ready for any heavy drama at the beginning of the season. Also, I was happy with the lack of Betty Draper.

And there were a couple of times where I was like, TWO HOURS of this? Really?

yeah for real

didn't do that much for me tbh but it's all setup anyway I guess

It was awfully slow

Well slow is what we expect by now, no?

i was riveted. i don't even notice the slowness on this show; i think my brain adapted several seasons ago.

Oh Harry.

Yeah no kidding, what's his deal? Other than apparently being a wife-swapping libertine whenever he's out of the office.

He's slimmed down a little in the time off, right?

I don't know why, but it struck me funny that Duck had five different contacts in Don's rolodex.

can't wait til they write Freddy Mercury out of this show like they did with Betty

also no that was not Kimmy Robertson

Harry and Pete are like two sides of a pathetic coin; Harry's the passive pathetic guy, and Pete's the aggressive pathetic guy.

I can't decide who I enjoy more, but both of them give me so much secondhand embarrassment, it's just great to watch

I love Pete these days.

I kind of wish he'd taken it outside with Roger. I knew he wouldn't because it's not his steez AT ALL, but it would have been great to have seen a sidewalk dustup between them.

Fingers crossed that it's still coming.

Megan is so ridiculously pretty but I still get the BWAHAHAH FREDDY MERCURY giggles when she flashes her choppers

Oh, that was wtf Shakey Mo was talking about this time.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1hg59uBLg1rrimozo1_500.gif

this really just flew by for me, it didnt feel like 'ppl doing nothing' at all!

biggest LOL: 'there's my baby!'

and of course jess kicked ass.

I'm glad Peggy's yid boyfriend is back; he's dreamy.

biggest LOL: 'there's my baby!'

Yeah, that was great.

so do we think Dr. Rape is going to die off-screen sometime this season or what

i think he's going to singlehandedly stop the vietnam war. REALITY SPLIT.

yeah love Peggy and her boyfriend

xp

Trudy taking the wrong side of the protest conversation was very much in character, but still funny.

Pete Campbell is the stealth liberal we all always thought he was.

Don's "so hire one" at the end seemed like it shoulda been Pete's line

When the job applicants all showed up in the lobby I actually shouted at the TV, "Well what did you THINK would happen?"

what was that amazing music playing when Kiernan Shipka woke up and went to Don and Megan's room

ya that was cool

also her name is 'don's daughter,' not kiernan shipka

SALLY DRAPER, you knobs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Xn4VWYwd4

Sally Shipka, let's compromise

i'm with veg grrl; the soap opera-ishness of this ep kinda killed it for me
i want to see MORE PITCHING OF ADS

rewatch s1 in that case I guess

more dancing beans

I for one just love watching miserable people destroy themselves slowly at this point, it makes me feel like I have company.

xp YES! I was really looking forward to the bean ballet.

lol, the dancing bean ad idea sucked.
I WAS IN KOREA

It's been my biggest struggle with this show from the get-go...as much time is spent on the characters talking to each other as the camera slowly panning over furnishings. In my more cynical moments I'm just like "man this show is just furniture porn for modernists".

and then Pete/Harry/Sally/Joan do something great and I'm happy.

harry was a bit of a treat this ep, i'll give them that

not enough bad things happen to Harry imho

Harry's gonna get AIDS.

Joan and Lane have the most respectful professional relationship on the show, they are an inspiration to us all in terms of their basic decency. OTOH Lane is a sad panda who really wants to be Don apparently but can't pull it off.

Lane's little subplot this ep was the most curious insofar as I really didn't know where it was going or what the overall implication was going to be... was a bit worried that he was going to hit on Joan during their little exchange.

Stan was also enjoyable in this episode, especially when he let Harry dig his own grave in the office kitchen as Megan stood behind him.

yeah genuine lolz at that

was a bit worried that he was going to hit on Joan during their little exchange.

Okay, so I wasn't the only one. Of course he didn't, though, because he's Lane Pryce and he wouldn't do such a thing.

the soap opera-ishness of this ep kinda killed it for me

I generally think of Mad Men as a very high-end soap opera.

that's pretty obviously what it is. It doesn't get any more soap-opera-y than having one of the main story arcs be "married woman with absent husband has somebody else's baby"

I thought in soap operas the baby would somehow be the evil twin of a different character entirely. Or a vampire or something.

Also, the lead character is not who everyone believes he is.

Mr Pryce's conversation with the girl in the photo made me want to crawl out of my skin, just for awkwardness.

Him and Joan are wonderful, and yeah I had a few alarm bells early on but he just SO loves her professionally I was like, oh of course he would never. Sigh of relief.

Pretty sure that was a deliberate mislead.

Pretty careless of him keeping the photo in his own wallet, though. It could've fallen out when he was giving Mrs. Pryce money for the day.

I thought he was going to take the money or something, at first I couldn't really figure where it was going. but he's Lane Pryce, so I was very confused for a while.

^^^yeah I was wondering if he was so broke he needed to steal $100. although initial takeaway was simply "Lane does not trust black people"

THIS

It was all very strange

Pretty careless of him keeping the photo in his own wallet, though.

Didn't he slide the photo under his desk calendar?

he's supposed to be going broke right

xxxxp

I only just remembered his somewhat nauseating relationship with his 'chocolate bunny'.

xpost jaymc: then he put it in his wallet later

it was sorta weird how my interpretation went from "Lane doesn't trust black people" >> "Lane needs money" >>> "Lane is fishing for a date from a whore" >>> "is Lane gonna blackmail this dude or something?" lol

I'm glad Peggy's yid boyfriend is back; he's dreamy.

I thought his "Oh I write for underground newspapers -- you probably haven't heard of them" was such a douchebag moment.

Oh, I must've missed that, VegGrrl.

everyone in this show is a douchebag, it's all a matter of degree

douchegree

When he was fishing for money to give his wife the next day, the photo was stashed between the bills in his wallet.

I was expecting the woman to show up for the wallet and be older/overweight/or in some other way different than the photo he was perving over.

ya, it was pretty funny that it was the dude who turned out to be a shlub

The photo looked to be a bit older, so I liked the idea he had built up the idea of this woman that doesn't exist.

it would sort of be the obvious thing to do if she showed up looking different/dumpy, for some reason having it be the guy was just great

very madmaniacal plot turn.

very madmaniacal plot turn.

The other thing about it that made me laugh was that she sounded a little bit like the mom on Bob's Burgers, so I kept imagining Lane having a flirty phone conversation with this:

http://images1.cliqueclack.com/tv/files/2011/05/wallpapers_linda_1024-1-150x150.jpg

HA!

OH BOBBY

looooool

were we meant to get a mob vibe off wallet dude?

pretty schlubby for a mobster

Totally freaked at Pete's suburban kitchen looking exactly like Don's erstwhile suburban kitchen btw.

Mr Pryce's conversation with the girl in the photo made me want to crawl out of my skin, just for awkwardness.

Him and Joan are wonderful, and yeah I had a few alarm bells early on but he just SO loves her professionally I was like, oh of course he would never. Sigh of relief.

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, March 26, 2012 9:56 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, i went through the exact same "gross!", "please don't!", "thank god" arc there

Loved Pete's shocked reaction at seeing Peggy holding baby Kevin.

Very curious about Lane's behaviour - why so broke? Definitely thought he was going to steal the money in the wallet. Actually I Went 'ugh racist' 'ugh thief' 'ugh perv!' but the wife's money questions kept coming up - I guess he put most of his money into SCDP, whereas the others had larger fortunes to begin with.. I guess no one's really getting paid yet?

An entertaining episode, but I would've preferred maybe an hour of 'the gangs' all here!' catchup and then something to actually happen.

Also Roger's open disdain for his wife is kinda lolzy/kinda O_o

Like when she asked him what time it was and he's all "Shaddup"

love that you don't see him at the staten island terminal

re: wild 60s fashion, I think you guys are wildly underestimating American public's willingness to embrace crazy fashion shit. after all, we did it once before, and if any show could re-kickstart hideous late 60s clothing trends it would be Mad Men.

Lane thing with the girl/schlubby mobster seems an obvious long con, yet to play out.

Loved Pete's shocked reaction at seeing Peggy holding baby Kevin.

Nice! Missed this. Also, love the baby names. Kevin. Tammy.

Yes, it almost makes me forgive the idea of a woman born in 1940 named Megan.

Loved Pete's shocked reaction at seeing Peggy holding baby Kevin.

same thing in reverse: roger's "my baby!" as he walked up to greet joan & their secret bastard in the hall

Yes, it almost makes me forgive the idea of a woman born in 1940 named Megan.

this was bugging me, too

well Canadians are weird so

Apparently uncommon in Canada, too:
http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2010/10/mad-men-and-megan-spotlight-on-a-misunderstood-name

As I mentioned in a comment on that post, Bethany and Allison -- two of Don's conquests last season -- also had names that were also basically unknown in the U.S. (i.e., not among the top 1,000 names for girls) before the end of WWII.

re: wild 60s fashion, I think you guys are wildly underestimating American public's willingness to embrace crazy fashion shit. after all, we did it once before, and if any show could re-kickstart hideous late 60s clothing trends it would be Mad Men.

i was right in that they gave megan the cool late 60s getup, while stan gets the questionable leisurewear

repost from rong thred:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/dondetail.jpg

<3

HAH! Took me a second.

i know i know mad men likes pretty ladies but god damn i <3 petes new secretary

Yeah, her face look intersting.

It's funny, I thought the "And they call us savages!" line at the beginning of the episode was really corny but it turns out it was a real line from an nytimes story on the incident.

btw are we now on actor no. 4 in the role of Bobby

xp corny irl too

I hope that Peggy's friend (Mamet's daughter) comes back but she probably won't as she's in that Lena Dunham HBO series.

shocked that theres not a .gif here of the peggy reaction face when megan mouths 'forty' 2 her

shocked that theres not a .gif here of megan cleaning

"cleaning"

more like "presenting"

like a mandrill, to coin MST3K

"presenting"

o man, such a gross word. read a couple sci-fi novels by michael swanwick a few years back, and he's just in love with describing his female characters as "presenting". blargh.

National Lampoon Presents:

aww

http://i42.tinypic.com/23jogac.jpg

the cigarette, god. the way my brain reacted to that he might as well have been wielding a knife

my how times have changed etc

also omg Joan in the hot pink dress with red hair A++++++++++++++++

OTM

"she doesn't speak french. she doesn't like me."

but there's definitely a "joan is old fashioned" message re. joan's pink dress. she's still wearing clothes from 3 years previous. she's stuck. everyone else has moved on but she's going to hang on to her style probably for another 15 years or however long she can buy those dresses for.

& hair all ratted-up like a teenage jezebel.

Btw slocki's movie was v.good.

agreed with jed. They're still showing off the cleavage but she's wearing more (manufactured) bulk in her midsection and butt and i don't think that's going anywhere. joan's gonna lose some of that sex appeal as the seventies begin methinks

not once she gets back in the office.

guaranteed Joan t-1000 taking bitches OUT

mmmmmmi dunno. i think having joan come into her own outside of sexbomb status could be a more interesting plotline

why, so freddy mercury can steal her thunder? I say no to that.

(manufactured) bulk in her midsection

that belly was so obviously cushiony that I can't believe they're having her keep it all year

can I make an embarrassing admission: I was transfixed by the way her decolletage rose UP and DOWN with her sobbing in that dress. I was hypnotized.

well I guess not embarrassing but whatever

I'm only just past the zoobeezoo scene, but ffs, it's 2012: can't directors and editors come to an agreement that when the drummer is playing the hi-hat, that's what we should hear on the soundtrack, and not the ride cymbal? I will give them credit for getting the equipment right, though

/drumgearnerdtalk

I love you a little bit more now for that.

<3

And don't get me started on the fact that the drummer was playing bongos, and yet a full drum kit was also audible. What, are we to believe this was some sort of...(snort)...magic drummer? I hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

Seriously, I do.

AND CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION

PS I AM NOT A CRANK

hahaha

that belly was so obviously cushiony that I can't believe they're having her keep it all year

― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Monday, March 26, 2012 7:37 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, the padding only exists sot that it can be removed later on

see i was thinking that's a warm up to a heavier fatsuit

This is on here somewhere right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5mZey1iXw

Btw slocki's movie was v.good.

― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, March 26, 2012 10:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you watched it <3

A homosexual, a French-Canadian sexpot and a single redhead? I think I've found my target demographic.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/dondetail.jpg

um, wtf is going on with Don's hand here? is Dick Whitman actually a tyrannosaurus?!

whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

onetinyhand.com

the internet is so weird

I really enjoyed this, the whole thing was really funny, especially anything involving Harry or Roger. Happy that Bert Cooper's still around as well.

I wonder if the new black secretary, whoever it is, is going to be a significant character? I kinda hope so.

Theme of the ep seems to be that happy Don isn't as good at his job, wonder how that's going to play out?

Also have they ever even hinted about Joan having a bit of a thing for Don before? She seemed really pissy around Megan, but it seems like a weird direction for her character to go at this stage. Loved the scene with Laine and Joan thought - there are so many pairings in this show with great chemistry at this stage.

I didn't really care that not much happened, was great to just re-familiarise with the characters and enjoy the lols.

Although apparently no one told the scriptwriters that British people don't call the autumn "the fall".

i think joan was just mad that megan's already working as a copywriter

yeah don & joan is maybe the subtlest relationship in the show, always gets overlooked behind don/peggy. i think it's like a real "we are both in control" similar sense of pride mutual respect that they don't even really think about but if they did they'd realise they don't have for anyone else at all? from joan's side it verges on idk almost motherly sometimes but not romantic i don't think; would be lame if the show even hinted at toying with it

dr rape was the don cut-out she thought she was getting (/deserved) obv

I didn't really care that not much happened, was great to just re-familiarise with the characters and enjoy the lols.

haha idk about anyone else but mainly i found it a refresher course in how stressful watching mad men is. "enjoy the lols" never crossed my mind

kind of summed up by how pete has never been more right despite his weaseliness, don & roger never worse

as ever, interesting the redemptive role the success of the business plays

>Loved the scene with Laine and Joan

THIS. Loved the whole double episode tbh. Jared Harris's performance throughout gave me cause to reflect on what an truly excellent and versatile actor he is. Comparing Laine with a role like Captain Mike in Benjamin Button one would scarcely believe they were the played by the same person, but he inhabits them entirely.

It took me about two thirds of the film to realise that was him as Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes 2.

Are Pete and Trudy living in Don's old house?

I loved Pete's wistful sigh when trudy was bitching about the traffic noise in Don and Megan's place.

He was so good in Sherlock Holmes 2, it made me sad that the part was so puny and insubstantial.

wau @ onetinyhand
some serious lols!

The Lane Pryce actor is A+ in Fringe

guaranteed Joan t-1000 taking bitches OUT

ooh i hope so. megan just hasn't earned it (queen bee status) yet, baby.

I almost enjoyed the Lane/Joan recap of the party as much as the party! OK, well, not really, but his pantomime was amazing. Jared Harris has really been getting a lot of tv/film parts where he's been able to shine in the last few years.

Don and Peggy still have this great professional/personal thing going where they're like brother and sister, in a way. Her reaction to Megan doesn't seem to be disapproval, but a lot more nuanced -- like she is skeptical of her professionally, but due to her affection for Don she seems to want it to work.

Megan's character is.... going to be interesting. I can't tell if she's really manipulative, kind of manipulative and still earnest, or something else altogether.

sterling stuff was really great, how useless and annoying he is, what i really like about this show is that doesnt necc mean he'll get any sort of comeuppance at all

I think Megan's probably a decent person. She occupies a completely different paradigm to Don though, and I'm not sure their attraction is a great deal more than an intense sexual one.

Nah Don sees Megan as some kind of perfect mother Maria von Trappe anti-Betty figure as well, I think? Probably a load of issues around Anna's death in there as well. Either way that's probably not the way Megan sees herself, or Don's kids for that matter.

I couldn't work out whether or not Megan is any good at her job - I'm thinking yes but everyone including Peggy ignores that because she's the boss's wife...

Don sees Megan as some kind of perfect mother Maria von Trappe anti-Betty figure as well, I think?

Yeah I think you're right, but he's projecting massively there. She's not particularly maternal, she just has fun hanging out with the kids (who by the way seemed kind of wary of her in this ep). That's certainly a step up on Betty though.

Yes! I'm just ranting at this point with my impressions as I remember them since I just watched this before bed last night. Front-loading the new Pete/Roger dynamic in the first episode of the season was clever. I can't believe Roger fell for the Staten Island prank.
x-p

It's interesting that the Don/Megan dynamic is similar to something I saw with one of my friends recently. Don's attention is hard to keep in that he has seemed to need to challenge himself from all aspects in the past -- being energetic at work, holding down the checklist of wife/kids, and the string of affairs. Last season was mostly that falling apart in his home life. Now, he's got all three in one situation -- a woman who has the energy level he has (or did have, since he's now "old") who is also his home life (with all the conflict, since Don's personal life is supposed to have a dignified pretense), and a workplace where he's now disconnecting due to multiple factors but widely because Megan is there, too.

I'm assuming he hasn't had any affairs since getting with Megan (certainly not much chance to with them working together) but who knows.

I doubt it. Probably part of why he's so run down is he doesn't have as much "Don time," which was partly used in the past for affairs but he also seems like kind of a dude who needs space.

I think that's a big part of the reason he was so irked by the surprise party.

Also have they ever even hinted about Joan having a bit of a thing for Don before?

The scene that convinced me the show will never go down that road was the two of them in the hospital waiting room after the office party lawnmower incident. It's been a long time since I've seen that ep, but it signified to me then and there that it's a completely platonic relationship built of mutual respect.

not so sure. joan had a line about being sad at missing seeing don's blushes during megan's dance.

doesn't say much, everyone thinks don is handsome

It was something like "I can only imagine that man becomes more handsome when he's blushing," which falls in line with the mutual respect thing imo. They're the king and queen of their little work world and they each know it (Joan had some doubt when she saw the ad in the paper, but Lane put things right).

you guys are basically shipping right now

Crazy there isn't a Mad Men porn yet.

took me three seconds
http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverart/Adult/Large/Front/51/8250451.jpg

poor phrasing perhaps

i hope you at least rewound

Huh, these porn parodies are usually better at making sure the costumes are somewhat accurate.

haha ya that dude

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1h6q1pYDJ1qju80b.gif

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/jon-hamm-i-hated-working-in-porn-16134851.html

Whatever happened to the great porn names? 'This isn't [x]: An XXX Parody' is so disappointing.

ya its crazy to me that as soon as those porn parodies seemed to get really popular they just dispensed with the hilarious names

starring

don dripper
joan hollowaaaay down
pegging olson
butt cooper

loling at the simplicity yet hilarity of "butt cooper"

Rogerer Sterling

Roger Sperming

^ win

I LOVE the cheesy mid-sixties fashion! I also LOVE Megan and I wanted to hold her tightly after she got all sensitive. And then when she dommed Don.

I also HATE Harry Crane and I am glad Don hates him, too.

Spermling, surely.

harry crane is the best.

Harry Crane is the best at being the worst. I think that's why he is beloved.

i really miss paul and sal. will we ever see them again?

I also HATE Harry Crane and I am glad Don hates him, too.

^^^this. lots of horrible things happen to people on this show, I wish more of them happened to Harry, who is loathsome in every way.

he's just so hopeless. so fantastically hopeless.

he's a coward, a lech, an idiot, and with no skills/attractive traits into the woodchipper with him

he's no worse than 90% of the other guys on this show. he just is not attractive.

90% of the other guys are immoral, predatory, racist, cruel, vindictive, whatever but they are also all smarter and/or more creative than he is. he's just a lump.

Harry's the closest thing to an IRL unlikeable, trying too hard, weak officeworker, which is why I love him. He's note-perfect.

how long until one of the characters murders someone?

Who's the guy in the Palm Beach golf-type outfits in the office? He must do his job really well to get away with that, or it's just a way for Banana Republic to have a casual line for summer. On a related note, loved Don's mustard raincoat.

http://www.insound.com/madmen/

he's just so hopeless. so fantastically hopeless.

Yes, he seems too pathetic to hate.

Who's the guy in the Palm Beach golf-type outfits in the office?

stan rizzo (jay r. ferguson), new art director brought in last year iirc. gets away with it due his role, i suppose.

Yeah, I've supposed that as well.

he's a coward, a lech, an idiot, and with no skills/attractive traits into the woodchipper with him

― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:45 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

When he gets into his sixties he runs for to become 2012 Republican nominee for Presidency

Crane's passive aggressive cowardice and SELF IMPORTANT attitude is SO annoying. He's always crowing about how he's THE HEAD OF HIS DEPT, ETC but I have yet to see him to do anything worthwhile. He definitely slimmed down (not sure if that was purposeful) AND I thought for a moment when he arrived at Don's party, that he was now single. But it seems no. He's just a philandering creep (who's not hot enough to do as much philandering as he'd like).

Also I am really starting to love Layne.
He was REAL CHUFFED as being seen as a gentleman.

The wallet incident made me uncomfortable -- was he taking it because he didn't trust the cabdriver or because he was thinking about stealing the money/perving over pictures? Him being racist would seem worse to me than just being sort of desperate.

it could be racism. i was wondering that too. also, most cabbies aren't exactly rolling in the dough - that might be more to do with it? (or not)

or just I am Britisher Executive, I am much more well placed to do this good deed than any lowly cab driver

maybe

I don't know honestly. Felt like racism at first but who tf knows

it was sort of an underlying theme of the ep, so who knows?!

I took it ambiguously at first, just as the cabbie did - it was just a sense of being uncomfortable with there being this wallet, that Lane had kind of found, that was in his hands and he didn't want to pass it off and trust someone else with it. It could be a racial thing, a class thing, a distrust of taxi driver thing, who knows? I thought that the driver kind of paused and then brushed it off after getting Lane's card.

To be fair, the driver also said something about dropping it off in the lost and found, implying it'd be changing hands again and neither of them would have responsibility anymore. I can see where Lane would rather take care of it as an honorable thing to do.

whole thing seems like a preamble to something else, hard to tell what

Lane using mafia connections to set up some sort of future money and/or advertising deal, imo

i think it was just Lane being proper englishman to be compared later with his lechery over the photo and then contrasted with his meeting with the wallet owner and the whole, "this is how we do things here," spiel

def racist. I think they're setting up lane to have major issues with the eventual black hire?

what about his black girlfriend?

"I can't be a racist, some of my favorite mistresses are black"?

The irony of being called a gentlemen by a guy whose personal photo he has just stolen.

xposts

people are complicated. and i'm sure there are class issues too.
i wish this show was as serious and thought out as it wanted to be. There's pretensions of DEEP MEANINGFUL SOCIAL EXPLORATION but it's all gloss

yeah, i dunno about the lane = racist read. think the struggle with the cabdriver was there more to raise questions than to make any clear point.

dudes it not like people are like "i am going to do this particular thing for a RACIST reason and this other thing for a CLASSIST reason"

could be that it was a throwaway scene added to explain how he ends up with the photo and no-one really thought through WHY he would want to keep the stupid wallet in the first place.

i wish this show was as serious and thought out as it wanted to be. There's pretensions of DEEP MEANINGFUL SOCIAL EXPLORATION but it's all gloss

― Lil T the Bowed Jet (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are you joking, what would you have liked to have happened in this situation, a deep meaningful exploration of layne's racism?

$100 in 1966 money is over $600 in 2010 money, and he sort of changed his mind after he noticed how much money was in there.

perhaps it'd have been more clear if Lane had yelled "hands off, negro lackey! I will make sure this wallet returns to the place from whence it came!"

He gives the cabby his card and tips him.

he sure does.

"here's a tip, cabby. don't wade into the ilx mad men thread."

i wish this show was as serious and thought out as it wanted to be. There's pretensions of DEEP MEANINGFUL SOCIAL EXPLORATION but it's all gloss

sort of agree, cuz i do wish it were willing do dig a little deeper, cut a little sharper, but my bigger problem is that it's starting to really feel like a traditional soap opera, in that, despite all the ups and downs, it doesn't really seem to be going anywhere. first few seasons gave me the sense that it's structure was novelistic, that these various pieces were being put in place to some meaningful narrative purpose.

fucking "it's"

If you found a wallet in the back of a cab and was about to hand it to the cab driver and noticed it had $600 in it, and you were having money problems, what would you do?

demon struggle

ilx mad men threads always make me glad the writers do their own kinda weird, sometimes inscrutable things and not the super obvious TV things everyone seems to always want them to do

ilx mad men threads are fun because so much of nothing happens in the show and yet we always have so much to talk about

I am throwing my buddha trinket at this thread.

Yeah nothing happened, except the birthday party, the office-switching stuff, Joan bringing the baby into work, a steamy phone conversation, French pop musical number, commentary on the civil rights and occupy struggles, etc.

Don't forget the rough sex!

i think it was a mix of things but obviously a slight distrust of the cab driver had something to do w/ it. i liked this moment for the same reasons as s1ocki.

i liked the quiet irony of when layne dismissed 1/2 of the "negroes" by saying they were only hiring secretaries. even though the context was "civil rights" there are these narrowly defined gender roles (discrimination) that nobody in the room cared to question at that moment.

also do you think that all the black folks showing up to apply for a job was just a spontaneous reaction to their "equal employment" ad or if it was a concerted action to test the sincerity of that ad?

Yeah, that whole "secretaries are female" thing, and that all of the black men (and women!) didn't really question it was a decent commentary on the mixed state of racial/gender/workplace politics

despite all the ups and downs, it doesn't really seem to be going anywhere.

Well, the show is going *somewhere*: to the end of the 1960s.

I'm not saying that to be snarky, either. I think a lot of the show's momentum comes from the anticipation of how the characters will react to and interact with the changing times.

What do all of you think of the way with which the receptionist was canned? She was kind of iffy, but it was kind of a quick turnaround from "we don't need to hire anyone" to "weakest link on the chain just carried a racist statue through the entryway past the group that would be offended, dump her"

wait was she canned? i must have missed that.

first few seasons gave me the sense that it's structure was novelistic, that these various pieces were being put in place to some meaningful narrative purpose

I think, like the Sopranos, they weren't sure where it was all going for the first couple seasons (might get cancelled! or in the Sopranos case have a major player die lol) and now that the show's place is secure and Wiener's given it an end-date, we are going to see some very methodical, multi-season plotting with a definite "narrative purpose".

also s1ocki OTM w this: glad the writers do their own kinda weird, sometimes inscrutable things and not the super obvious TV things everyone seems to always want them to do

I don't think that's a thing that happened, was it? xps

"weakest link on the chain just carried a racist statue through the entryway past the group that would be offended, dump her"

this was totally grounds for firing. she did a really stupid thing, which was immediately identified and she knew she should have known better.

i couldn't get a bead on how we are supposed to understand megan. was the presence of her arty/homosexual friends meant to underline the generational divide between her and her husband? that struck me as a bit over the top, her coquettish song-and-dance routine included.

i did like how almost everyone in the office had a different assumption of how don must have been reacting to that.

Well, they had no open positions, then they asked her if she'd just carried it through the entryway past all the waiting people, and then the scene cut to them announcing an open receptionist position.

oh i see.

the exchange between Meredith the receptionist and Joan was awesome in its awkwardness.

this is kind of small potatoes, but i wish they had trusted the audience to get the point re. pete sending roger to staten island without underlining it -- i like when this show dares to handle things much more elliptically than is standard in TV.

The implication was that they solved the "how can we hire a black person without money" problem by taking advantage of the heedless receptionist's errors and firing her.

I'm not saying that to be snarky, either. I think a lot of the show's momentum comes from the anticipation of how the characters will react to and interact with the changing times.

that's true, but the first couple seasons were built around these ticking-bomb plot devices: don's secret, peggy's secret, the suggestion that don's life and marriage were collapsing. it seemed as though an examination of an era were being tied to a narrative that was moving in a definite direction, like television's revolutionary road or something. the longer it's gone on, the the less there's any clear sense of overarching narrative structure. not saying that the more prosaic "here's what happened next" stuff that's replaced it is uninteresting or unsatisfying, and it's probably more true to life, but i do find myself a little frustrated by the lack of attention paid to some of the story threads that first attracted me. plus want more betty.

this is kind of small potatoes, but i wish they had trusted the audience to get the point re. pete sending roger to staten island without underlining it -- i like when this show dares to handle things much more elliptically than is standard in TV.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya i liked that you didnt actually see him at staten island but maybe it would have been better to not see him wake up at all and just have his little line about "pranks" or whatever to acknowledge that it had happened

i couldn't get a bead on how we are supposed to understand megan. was the presence of her arty/homosexual friends meant to underline the generational divide between her and her husband? that struck me as a bit over the top, her coquettish song-and-dance routine included.

yeah, i think the whole party scene and the subsequent rape-sex were meant to underline the fact that megan and don have almost nothing in common with one another, aside from mutual physical attraction.

I am actually content with less Betty in the show, now. The new problem of Don losing focus on his career could be more catastrophic than anything, really. His ability to pull things together has been pretty much key to his persona. I spent half the episode wondering if he'd just turned into a younger Roger Sterling.

and over the top or not, "zou bisou bisou" was so flippin great

lol misread it as 'mutant physical attraction' which also actually kinda otm

Don's arc is totally mirroring Sterling, this seems pretty blatant

Roger's the only father figure he has etc

announcing an open receptionist position

No - they explicitly said "we can't have one of them sitting out front" and Lane said the job opening was for a secretary.

I don't buy the idea that Don and Megan have little in common. Megan's friends are definitely more of the late 60s era, but what about Don's dalliances with the beat crowd? There are also some parallels with Betty and the whole model/actress thing. If anything, they're both born manipulators of people, too. Megan being cold and then manipulative when she mis-stepped isn't that far out of step with early-period Don Draper.

don's arc is mirroring sterling's, and pete's is starting to mirror don's. the circle of liiife.

So will Sterling lose his testicles so he can mirror Cooper?

Cooper never married!

Is Sterling becoming the new Bert Cooper? Cooper was the one who used to have the large office with art affectations and less client interaction. He's aging into the seniority but without the respect.

lol at testicles

er, I didn't read Don and Megan banging on the carpet as rapey at all. Rough, yeah. But big difference between that and Joan and her husband.

I wasn't going to address that at all since a fictional portrayal is kind of in the eye of the beholder, but that did not really code as rapey to me. Definitely a game to put Don in his place and challenge his aggression.

yeah it was a dom thing

Remember too that Don used to have hookers beat him during sex.

dom drapentino

not really outside the realm of normal

okey, fine, rough sex

but what about Don's dalliances with the beat crowd?

i don't think he really had anything in common w them, either. he was just intrigued, looking for something new to take his mind off stuff. read peggy as don 2 more than pete.

My personal feeling on Don Draper, and I maybe 100% alone in this is he's some kind of low-level sociopath or something. He doesn't really engage/care about anyone really at all, and his interactions are more in the manner of someone studying insects. Like he mimics emotion but I'm not sure that he really has them all that deeply, most of the time anyway. Kinda like a 60's Patrick Bateman without a bird's eye view of his inner fantasy life.

I dunno. That might be just me and my overactive imagination.

no, that's exactly how i see him. but i think he sort of "has things in common" with people to the extent that they respect him, don't poke their noses in shit, and behave in a manner that he thinks of as appropriate. plus be hot and sleep with him. betty seems to have fulfilled all this for quite some time, until she didn't anymore. megan doesn't seem like an ideal replacement.

dunno how anyone could get the impression Don didn't have feelings for Anna. who was not hot, and didn't sleep with him.

when DID megan find out about the whole Dick Whittman thing?

between season 4 and 5

no fair

I demand Season 4.5

no between season shenanigans

He is not a sociopath to the level of Patrick Bateman, by any stretch. He's definitely pretty emotionally dead, though.

I also disagree on Anna being not hot, too... maybe not "a dish" but she was a very good looking woman.

(But also older than Don, and probably a mother figure that he lacked so much in his life)

Anna was p hot. She was the crazy Church wife in True Blood!

wait nm

I also disagree on Anna being not hot, too... maybe not "a dish" but she was a very good looking woman.

also handicapped, which I'm pretty sure Don did not find attractive

i dunno - dude's pretty kink!

compared to the other slinky, usually Jewish women Don had the hots for, Anna wasn't really in that league. I dunno, seems like they went out of their way to demonstrate that Don/Anna's relationship was not sexual in nature, which is all I was getting at. He was not interested in her as either arm candy, wife, or sexual conquest.

really he loved her because she was the only person who could make him feel like he wasn't a liar/fraud/asshole

The department store lady is still my favorite. Rachel?

Yep, Rachel Menken. Or Mencken perhaps idk

Whenever Don has a platonic relationship with a woman it throws everyone off because it goes against type.

there's just Peggy and Anna...?

hard to say if he genuinely engages with/relates to Peggy or just appreciates her as his lapdog/babysitter

Joan. xp

hard for me to believe that Don has no human regard for Peggy after s4e6

I remember S4E06 being the one where they spent the whole ep together and that it was really, really nice, though all the details have escaped me. Did Don ever piece together that she'd had a baby between S1 & S2?

uh Don went to visit her after her pregnancy, he totally knew about the baby.

right, forgot Joan.

xp

that's the episode. and yes, he visited her in the hospital, there's a flashback sometime in s2. "It will shock you how much this never happened." In s4e06 they obliquely refer to the baby incident. "My mother thinks you're responsible." "Do you know how it was?" "Of course." xp

WHO it was

implication is that Don thinks it was Duck tho, not Pete

I need to rewatch older seasons. I've forgotten a lot.

the point about her carrying it through the office wasn't that they'd have to fire the woman, but that they'd be called out on their racism if they didn't pretend that the ad was for real.

wrt Don/Peggy, I don't think it really humanized Peggy to him overall. Maybe in the moment, somewhat, but I'd wager that Don just saw it more as confirmation of her being yet another flawed human in the parade of flawed humans that cross his path every day.

hard for me to believe that Don has no human regard for Peggy after s4e6

yeah, the don = sociopath thing can definitely be overstated, that's why i liked vegegrrl's "low level" modifier. he has feelings, but i just don't think they run particularly deep, and they're subject to revision or abandonment at a moment's notice if they get in the way.

I just think he sees everything as transient and fleeting and unimportant, that people are too tied to childish feelings or overinflated ideas of importance...he might get caught up in things every now and again, and play at being a normal person, but he's only ever acting, and he can never really fully connect. the remove helps him move on, but it's also WHY he moves on. all the time.

I thought Megan was sooooooooooo gorgeous until yeah....I started to see the Freddy Mercury thing. But there is also a Muppet that looked that way, can't remember which one.

I gave up thinking she's a time bomb, especially after waiting for the teacher to blow up seasons back.I thought for sure the teacher would really pull something but she just walked away. So not getting my hopes up too much for Freddy Mercury. Hope I will be surprised though.

I didn't see that as a rape scene at all. I thought it was total role playing with Megan knowing exactly what she was doing and Don getting turned on and catching on.

Pete is my new favorite character.

like i figure don could easily kill a man, a women and perhaps even a child if he felt he had to, and i can't imagine he'd loose too much sleep over it in the long run. i can't really see him putting himself in a situation where such a thing would seem necessary, though, either physically or mentally. he's smarter than that.

i can see him packing up and running off to start a new life if things got weird, becoming the sort of absent father who sends money/calls only once or twice a year.

the biggest counterargument would be his long-term support of and seeming affection for the real mrs. don draper. maybe that was partly an insurance thing though, i dunno.

thought Megan was sooooooooooo gorgeous until yeah....I started to see the Freddy Mercury thing.
― *tera, Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:11 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah otm

Megan reminds me of Gloria on The Sopranos.

zooby zooby zoo is a total earworm.

x-post couldn't see don killing someone, he's too repressed to ever get that angry or conspicuous.

I didn't see that as a rape scene at all.

i didn't mean rape, btw. in saying "rape-sex", i just meant sex that plays with force and refusal. she pretended to resist him, and he physically overpowered her resistance.

x-post couldn't see don killing someone, he's too repressed to ever get that angry or conspicuous.

that was my point. he'd never allow it to come to that, but if for whatever reason it did, it wouldn't ruffle him overmuch, except in the pragmatic "how do i deal with this problem?" sense.

just say dom/sub or something. "rape sex" isn't a kind of sex.

i dunno, i think he'd be horrified. he is not a violent person to me. i think he is fundamentally a good person, but struggling under the weight of some severe identity problems and mental problems, which the show has only scratched the surface of. i think it's why he's such a believable character, tons of people are like this and prob way moreso in that era, but it will be a major challenge if they ever try to unpick him more. i mean, even the viewers can't be too sure of what lies beneath with don.

just say dom/sub or something. "rape sex" isn't a kind of sex.

ookey, fair enuf. do think a fair number of folks like to play at exactly that sort of thing, though this wasn't an example.

i feel this push and pull as to whether or not to try to understand "fifth season don draper" in terms of what "first season don draper," etc. experienced and did. you could argue that one of the nice things about television is that characters have these long histories that could be brought to bear (in the show itself or in viewers' imaginations) in terms of understanding their actions in recent episodes. and certainly mad men makes use of that. (though i'm not always sure how often we are actually being consciously cued to recall a particular interaction from several seasons ago vs. we choose as an audience to recall that interaction in the process of trying to understand/anticipate the current episode/season.)

but at the same time both creators and audiences don't generally have long, very accurate memories and it's equally true that the don draper character we watch in this season is not, and doesn't have to be, the same don draper as we watched in earlier seasons. his character has changed not just because of some implied or explicitly stated process of internal development, but because the interests of the writers, the contours of the drama, and in some sense the demands/needs of the audience have demanded that change. in other words the shifts in don draper's character--the seeming inconsistencies--don't have to "code" as realistic because TV drama is not a fundamentally realistic form. we don't engage with it exactly or even nearly as we would with a person IRL, even if there are inevitable, useful, and innneresting ways that the two types of engagement overlap.

all this to say that there are two, not necessarily incompatible options:

A) the apparent shift in the way don relates to the world that transpires over the course of (and between) seasons can be explained "realistically," as the kind of drift and complexity that "normal" humans can be said to undergo/have in the context of this ever changing world in which we live in.

B) the shift cannot really be explained realistically, but we go with it (or not) b/c we enjoy (or don't) the way the drama in its present form engages us.

i think that the artistic prestige that's conferred upon people like matt weiner makes it somewhat necessary for them to explain things in terms of (A) (since "artistic quality" is traditionally cast in terms of formal coherence/consistency and indeed consistency of authorial vision). and much of the audience is likely to go along with that. but i think it's just as likely that (B) is what's happening. it's interesting how more "low-brow" shows will actually make these shifts more baldly ("yeah, we got rid of that character because audiences hated her"/"we decided to make john more likable this season") because they are under less (internal and external) pressure to provide high-minded justifications for their artistic choices.

anyhow.

many xposts to *tera: I have a vague hope that Megan is the new hot-chick with the crazy eyes, who eventually burns down Sterling Cooper or runs down Betty Draper in a car or something.

I doubt it. She's too mild and it's not like her emotional fluctuations last episode were any big woop given what a PIA Don Draper is on a day to day basis, but still. I can dream.

i dunno, i think he'd be horrified. he is not a violent person to me

I remember him being pretty unpleasantly physical to Bobbie Barrett that time in the restaurant. Like, he didn't just put his hand where it didn't belong, he hurt her. I could see him doing major damage to someone if he had to.

and only Don Draper would have an awesome party in an amazing apartment and be all hate parties lemme eat worms I hate u

Maybe now when I tell ppl i hate birthdays they will just think i'm sexy.

i think he is fundamentally a good person, but struggling under the weight of some severe identity problems and mental problems, which the show has only scratched the surface of.

agree that he's not violent by nature, but this doesn't mean that he lacks the capacity. i do think that don's fundamental identity is very much in question, though. he's shown signs of decency and concern for his fellow man, but also of a kind of creepily adaptable moral vacancy. agree, too, that this isn't terribly unusual, that if don really is a "low level sociopath", then an awful lot of people share the affliction.

it's interesting how more "low-brow" shows will actually make these shifts more baldly ("yeah, we got rid of that character because audiences hated her"/"we decided to make john more likable this season") because they are under less (internal and external) pressure to provide high-minded justifications for their artistic choices.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:26 PM (4 minutes ago)

for ex, the distinct nicening of steve carell's michael scott after the first season of the american version of the office. no explanation needed or given.

wrt Don/Peggy, I don't think it really humanized Peggy to him overall

yeah I think this is debatable. what that episode really did was humanize Don for PEGGY. Don spends most of the episode treating her like shit/being a complete asshole, then breaks down, cries, passes out in her lap. Wakes up, tells her to go home, then gets back to work like nothing happened.

actually I had horrible flashbacks to highschool with Don's I Hate Birthdays steez -- I called my friend to wish her a happy birthday and she hung up on me, and wouldn't answer the phone when I tried to call back. I got mad at her the next day, and she was all HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE THAT I HATE BIRTHDAYS FOR YOU TO STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF MY BIRTHDAY
and I felt really terrible.

didn't lead to any dom-sexytimes resolution though :/

people who regularly make a super big deal out of HATING STUFF, entirely refusing to engage on any positive level w the HATED THING, and making sure that other people are at all time 100% fully aware of the INTENSE HATE are just the worst

i hate them

At first I was like, yes but we like you and we like that you were born! don't u see?
she didn't see.

The signs were there for Megan to see, though. His children bought him a nice, low-key present and said happy birthday and he was fine with that and not at all insistent on any kind of celebration (beyong going out for cheesecake in lieu of birthday cake), and Peggy warned Megan that he wouldn't like the party. It was her own fault.

Roger ruining the surprise was awes

just have his little line about "pranks" or whatever to acknowledge that it had happened

Nah – when Pete had his giraffe secretary put the fake meeting down I was shouting “c’mon make it believable, Roger’s not THAT dumb” – if they hadn’t shown Roger getting up, then the “prank” line would have read like him smacking Pete for so clumsily trying to pwn him, not him wryly acknowledging “ok Campbell you win this one, quality pwning lil homie”

Also I very much liked that it showed that the harsh punishment consisted of making Roger get up at the same time one day that Pete has to every day, to commute in from his hated suburban lovenest.

I remember him being pretty unpleasantly physical to Bobbie Barrett that time in the restaurant. Like, he didn't just put his hand where it didn't belong, he hurt her. I could see him doing major damage to someone if he had to.

No way, Bobbie was mega into it, not in pain.

I assumed Roger just wouldn't bother cos it was at 6am

“c’mon make it believable, Roger’s not THAT dumb”

i dunno. he obviously once had hella game, but his brain's been pickling for years.

last year i was living in NYC and commuting to Greenwich, CT every day for work. i drove, which was bad enough (~hour commute if traffic was heavy), but ten or twenty times i had to take the train, and even with 2012 trains + scheduling (lulz, this is public transportation we're talking about - trains - probably the same exact technology as in the 60s tbh) it could be a grueling 2+ hour trip door to door.

i think the fact that pete obviously pines to be living in the city again makes him much more sympathetic

also there is really this sense with successful people (admen, doctors, lawyers, etc.) that moving to the 'burbs is somehow something that just _has_ to happen, esp. once you have a child. so many folks i know insisted that they would stay in the city and then, sure enough, moved to winnetka or whatever as soon as they started having (or planning) children. there must be some very real pressure to do this (spoken or most likely unspoken). it adds a ton of hassle in terms of commute and having the mortgage hanging over your head means you can't take a step off of the treadmill.

really missing betty in this episode - she's the character with the most psychological depth. she's a vital hinge in the show and amazingly well acted by january jones. a lot of the characters are too "one note": i don't believe pete and i think the actor is particularly bad but it's probably not his fault that he's as bad as he is. i'm kinda surprised that they let it pass, though.

someone who loves betty and hates pete is watching a different show from me

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Betty

oh you can hate her but you can believe her. pete is just some thin pastiche and badly acted to boot.

rong
rong
rong

Pete is my new favorite character.

― *tera, Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:11 PM (Yesterday)

Pretty much. I loved the scenes of him and his commuting buddies.

And yes, he's an excellent actor. Particularly in the last season (and this one too by the looks of things)

pete is the best.

i kinda feel like i totally understand pete. he's slimy and gross, but he's slimy and gross in a way that is incredibly relatable to me

betty is a cipher tbh

there is nothing badly acted about Pete

i think there's a fair bit of bad acting in the show though, it's not just pete.

i still like it.

there must be some very real pressure to do this (spoken or most likely unspoken).

Tbf, a lot of people do it b/c of a belief (real or imagined) in the superiority of the suburban schools. Although I suppose if you're well-off, you might also have the option of sending your kids to private school.

i kind of love betty, kind of hate her. i liked the character a great deal in the fist couple seasons, but after her break w don, i got the feeling that matthew weiner was working through some issues wr2 the way the character was written. she came to seem worse and worse as a person, which would be okay in general, but something in the way it was handled made me feel sympathetic towards what i viewed as "the real betty", as though we were only seeing her through the scrim of weiner's weird hostility.

She's well drawn but heart always sinks a bit when she comes on screen cos I know something depressing is likely to happen soon.

i would not be disappointed if january jones was never in another episode of mad men. i'm sure she'll be back next week tho :/

dunno if we'll see much at all of Betty this season what with January Jones having a kid and the character having little or no function in the show anymore

She was not very good at all in that X-Men flick.

Though I dunno if I blame Jones for that as it's really not her milieu

yeah, but she was horrible in that x-men flick

but she's awesome in mad man.

don't like Pete as a person, looooove Pete as a character and Kartheiser is a virtuoso at playing a huge range of delicate variances on his weaseliness and entitlement

can very happily see no more of Betty than that porch light all year

Betty is the poop in the punchbowl

she was good in The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada but that role basically was Betty Draper by any other name

i think there's a problem of register in the show where some of the people are acting natural and others are acting like in the old movies.

the (older) secretary (the one who took the $50 off cooper to buy a hat) was awesome.

jed otm. both about register dissonance and the (older) secretary. while pete is an interesting character and i don't think of kartheiser as a bad actor, necessarily, i'm never convinced that i'm watching/listening to a real human being. i always see the uncomfortable attempt so seem, to deliver. this is certainly in keeping with the character, but not in a way that seems genuine.

this is probably true of the cast in general, though. they all seem like "tv people", with the exception of a few minor characters. naturalism clearly isn't the point. even in that context, though, pete's unnaturalism stands out.

everybody is always putting on an act, everybody is don draper

can you elaborate? perhaps to 450 pages?