the social introduction: a lost art?

maybe you've been in this situation:

the scene: a bar, or at a party, or some social function. you're engaged in conversation with a friend when you're interrupted by a third party: someone you don't know but your friend does.

they greet and chat and as you idle nearby, it quickly becomes apparent that your friend is not going to introduce you this third party, nor is the third party going to introduce himself to you.

how do you react? is this rude, and on whose part? do you try to introduce yourself?

thats outright rude. on both parties.

it is rude, obv. the person who knows both parties needs to introduce them. but since it doesn't happen a lot of the time (and i'm as guilty as anyone) i've taken to just introducing myself at a pause in conversation. this usually results in the common person apologizing for not introducing.

you clear your throat loudly

this sort of thing is far too common in my experience; but i don't know if this is just common to my city, or my peer group, or to my generation, or what.

It's rude but I usually just say to the unknown party, "Hi, my name's Michael. How do you do?'

just last weekend i went to a bar with one of my co-workers to meet a huge group of my friends. Obviously having never met any of my friends I introduced him to each one as they arrived. Sort of taxing but the right thing to do.

this sort of thing is far too common in my experience; but i don't know if this is just common to my city, or my peer group, or to my generation, or what.

― tangelo amour (elmo argonaut), Friday, April 8, 2011 9:54 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nah i feel u this happens a lot

must be that pack of socially crippled ADD cosmonauts you're running with... I hope I've never done this to you!

it is sorta rude, I usually chalk it up to ppl assuming we already know each other. I'll usually just introduce myself with a "hi I'm ed, I don't think we've met?"

xxxpps

Feel like this should be in here.

i don't want to overstate this as a trend or anything but there are dozens of people who i've been in social situations with, but whose acquaintance i've never made, because we've never bothered to introduce ourselves. i've tried to be more assertive with a handshake and a smile but it's not always the easiest thing to do, especially when the other person is giving cues that they don't actually care to meet you (avoiding eye contact, only speaking to their friends, etc).

^^^ well those kinds of people can go fuck themselves.

h8 this

i think a lot of this works on the basis of

YOU AND MUTUAL FRIEND
blah blah blah conversation

EXTERNAL FRIEND
hi there, x! let me tell you a lot of things about things!

MUTUAL FRIEND (THINKS)
oh lord, i can dispatch of this quickly, i will not bother with introductions, this person will go away soon

EXTERNAL FRIEND
blah blah blah my entire life happened to me once

MUTUAL FRIEND (THINKS)
oh, now it is too late for introductions, i guess i just have to ride this out

EXTERNAL FRIEND
blah blah i like dogs, dogs are great

YOU
balls.

ELMO THANK GOD, THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD.

I've had this giant realization in the last few years, that I require introducing to people. I don't like strangers, I don't like MEETING strangers, particularly men, and please PLEASE just introduce us, someone, because I will be like paralytically avoidant otherwise.

it just means they've forgotten the person's name, which makes it incumbent upon you to introduce yourself, thereby allowing the third party to say their name, much to your friend's relief

haha this ^

haha ed you've always been v good with introducing your bandmates & such, this is not something you've ever done to me ime

I have a friend like that, Laurel. She has no talent for breaking the ice at all but once it's broken she's perfectly fine. She used to make me go talk to guys she fancied so I could then introduce her. It cracked me up.

It has to be something to do with the fact that rules & formality actually give you perfect freedom WITHIN the rules; I just like to know that the formalities have been observed before I feel free to act.

waiting for somebdoy to post the appropriate curb youtube clip

I knew Laurel would respond to this thread. Introducing people is Manners 101. One of the worst manifestations is being the person accompanying the person everyone wants to talk to, but then not being introduced. Just standing there expectantly...then impatiently...then dejectedly.
I think introductions are something that people need to be taught/reminded to do. It's like when people say "I'm really bad with names" -- you're bad with names because you don't try/make an effort to remember people's names.

I'm kind of Miss Manners about this, but that's because I have been the one standing there A LOT during my life, from childhood on.

I don't require the conventions, Laurel, but if you know them and they are observed by all parties, yes, it means you all know what not to do and are free to do whatever is not proscribed and that can be quite helpful.

sometimes I think the 'sizing-you-up' glance from the third party when you ARE introduced is worse than not being introduced at all

It's like when people say "I'm really bad with names" -- you're bad with names because you don't try/make an effort to remember people's names.

Haha sometimes I'm bad with names b/c I really call the person something else in my head and their name is superfluous. Like "Erica's mom," whose name I didn't remember for almost two years and finally had to recruit SOMEONE ELSE to go introduce themselves and then come back and tell me!

It's definitely rude when this happens. I make the necessary introductions when I'm "the friend" in this situation b/c it's the right thing to do but also b/c it gives me an easier out if the other two want to chat & I want to bail that convo.

dayo they're gonna size you up anyway imo -- might as well know who you are and that you have a name while they do it

fwiw e3 this thread was prompted by an excursion last night to the E&0 (ilxors might call it a 'hipster bar' fwiw) -- maybe it's just because living in a small city in the northeast lends itself to weird provincial cliques? or pvd hipsters are just awkward and unfriendly? but imo this particular bar is a prime site of social gracelessness.

Like Elmo, due to Denver having a relatively small social scene, there are folks I've been in the same room with, partied with, cabbed with, who seem to forget me everytime I see them. There's a lot of re-introducing. Then I have some friends who NEVER introduce me to people, but usually it's because they've forgotten the person's name. As a result, I ALWAYS introduce people to others. It's a huge pet peeve of mine. It seems these days everyone's socially awkward and has no manners. /old lady

is the over-arching theme that hipsters have bad manners?

What are we, some kinda crazy BACKLASH? The ones who came before us, the ones who broke free of the mold, they were HAPPY not to make introductions, they believed they could talk to WHOEVER THEY WANTED! And here we are, throwing it all away for a return to social convention.

Tea, anyone?

think somebody said it but yeah...sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

Ugh, if people I'm with don't introduce me to third parties who come up and engage them, at least if it's for more than like 10 seconds, I just stare at them until they introduce me. If they still fail to do so, I have no problem saying "WTF is wrong with you?" after the other person leaves.

It's really rude. Idea: wait for a pause and say "I'm unvisible!" in a Ralph Wiggum voice.

I hate this, it sends me into a little spiral of "I guess I am not cool enough to be introduced to this person, agh, I had better not introduce myself like the over-eager dork that I am or I'll just confirm my uncoolness to everyone"

then again that is pretty much my default mode of thinking, so

(though if my other half is the acquaintance in common, then I will just know that he either doesn't know their name or thinks I've already met them, and staging a whispering match of "you know this guy!" "I have totally never met this person" "you must know this person!" for the next five minutes is NAGL, so)

omg thomp

I think that social proximics are just as difficult as introductions. For instance, when two good friends are trying to have a (standing) conversation with a third party, it is often very difficult for the friends to configure themselves so that the third party does not feel excluded, or forced into the spotlight. Things grow more complicated when all of the parties are mutually friendly but to varying degrees. A and B are great friends, and A and C are great friends, but B and C don't know each other very well although they /think/ they may like each other. I think the highly-structured seating arrangements of Victorian dinner parties were a kind solution to this dilemma; I'd be happy if they came back.

I don't need bugles and curtsies when I walk into a room, but a simple, "This person standing here exists and has a name" would be nice. I still shake people's hands when I meet them. In fact, this is so important to me that I have my speech students do an introduction (of another student) as their first (ungraded) exercise in public speaking.

I think working in the business world has made me overly aware of this. I mean, at work we introduce each other right and left. All the time I go to a meeting and there's several people I haven't met, and we have to do the handshake game. It's odd if you don't. So then when I go out to bars and everyone avoids each other, it's really strange to me.

think somebody said it but yeah...sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

― Will.Have.Known (Local Garda), Friday, April 8, 2011 10:25 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha yeah, if the third party is a douche then there's the potential that you are a douche by association

I have a friend that I constantly seem to be meeting people through, at his business or at parties he throws, etc. and he's kind of absent-minded and always seems to give unnecessary introductions between people who've already met or not bothering to introduce complete strangers to each other. Like I said, I think it's more absent-mindedness than rudeness but it's kind of funny yet frustrating -- a lot of times it becomes the ice-breaker between myself and whoever I'm meeting that we kind of awkwardly wait for him to make the introduction, roll our eyes as it becomes it's clear he's not going to, and then laugh about it and introduce ourselves.

So then when I go out to bars and everyone avoids each other, it's really strange to me.

introducing someone takes a certain mentality of "now i am taking charge of this moment" and i think some people just aren't confident enough to do this

i also think some people are just real juvenile and think introductions are like something their parents might do

sometimes i don't introduce people cos i don't like the third party...

there's a way to introduce someone that gets the formality over with but sends enough subtle signals to your mate not to get in too deep with this person

I still shake people's hands when I meet them.

ME TOO! Mostly this goes over perfectly well, but once in a while someone is like really SHOCKED? Idgi. Also I have a v firm grip and sometimes the most surprising people will give you a cold, fishy, limp hand to shake and I can cross them right off my mental list, so that's fine.

Hell, I still shake my dad's hand whenever I see him.

but do you introduce yourself

i shake the hand of all my 6th graders every morning – i am convinced it makes a huge difference to the way they enter the room. but after i'm done shaking, i purell the shit out of my hands.

oh man, what do your 6th graders do before class

cover their hands in shit apparently

I have had people who were like, bike punks or something really "off the grid" (lol) be surprised that I would shake people's hands on meeting. I guess their group ethic was based on being in opposition to the grown-up working world of The Man or uh something. They were cool women but I would sometimes run up against stuff where I felt they thought I was just really, really square.

Ha, I always shake my students' hands after discussing midterm grades -- lots of bad handshakes, but a few surprisingly good ones. I think it shows an agreement, and in my case, it's an agreement that we will both do our work to the best of our ability. Maybe hipsters don't want to commit to that.

I think the highly-structured seating arrangements of Victorian dinner parties were a kind solution to this dilemma; I'd be happy if they came back.

My gf has table arrangements like this for dinner parties where there are enough ppl who don't know each other and are mtg for the first time and she does this based on the likely affinity any two parties may have for each other. She and I never sit together at dinner parties so we can cover the table better as hosts, pouring wine, etc..., and making sure no-one is left out of the conversation or made to feel unimportant.

handshakes are pretty take it or leave it to me - the awkward part is deciding whether to go for it and risking some awkward body contortions/reach-overs etc.

i'm a big fan of the introduction because i'm always the guy who is left out (like in the original post). yesterday, i was introducing two friends of mine at work that didn't know each other. but the way it was going, it seemed like they weren't going to say their own names "Hi, I'm ____." So after a bit of a pause, I said "Gary, this is Thomas*". But then Thomas said his own name at the same exact moment that I said it. There was another awkward pause. So I jumped back on the horse and said "...and this is Gary". But again, Gary somehow spoke his own name at the same exact moment that I said it. There was another, longer, awkward pause. Then the elevator opened and Thomas walked out.

http://i52.tinypic.com/jug1a0.jpg

*all names made up to protect the awkward introduction participants

I think working in the business world has made me overly aware of this. I mean, at work we introduce each other right and left

My office is currently interviewing to replace someone who is leaving. The other day, I was out in the main part of our office, where there are just open workstations rather than private offices, talking to some colleagues. An interviewee arrived (this was a second interview, so she'd already been here once), and the supervisor who was interviewing her greeted her, then introduced her to the people at the workstations -- with whom she would be working if hired -- but for whatever reason did not introduce me. (I have a private office and don't work out there.) As they walked off down the hall, I said to their retreating backs, "I don't work here." It got a huge laugh.

I'm glad this is becoming a thread about hipsters.

I felt they thought I was just really, really square.

I know lots of punks and 'anti-social' ppl and I think I win them over by not caring whether I'm square or not as long as I'm trying to be nice and decent to everyone.

Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about.

admittedly i am just enough of an introvert (or have just enough social anxiety) that i realize i'm part of the problem. but to my credit i did introduce myself to a number of people last night!

but to be honest, when someone comes up and starts talking eagerly to your friend -- and doesn't even acknowledge you! -- that is pretty gross. (this also happened last night.)

I try to fall back on the old "have you two met? introduce yourselves" gambit because lately I have been so overtired and overcaffeinated that I will often confuse the people I'm introducing with each other. Also, I memorize names by reading them rather than hearing them so sometimes I just go blank if I haven't actually seen someone's name written down yet, so sometimes I am attempting to cover for not remembering someone's name.

So yeah, I try to split the middle so that I am simultaneously honoring and flaunting the convention in an attempt to hide that I can't remember the name of the person I'd been talking to for the past 20 minutes.

ZS, how could you be a dude who's left out? You're so friendly!

there's a way to introduce someone that gets the formality over with but sends enough subtle signals to your mate not to get in too deep with this person

"jim, this is jeremy, jeremy, this is jim and he is a fucktard"

My crust punk friends think I am square because I actually go out to bars

and have a car

I always shake hands when meeting people, and also when greeting existing friends. People do sometimes act shocked but I wish everyone did it, it's cordial.

I like that, LL!

MW, that's me, too -- if I've been the one to invite people to anything, even if it's not at my house, I feel like a hostess and will introduce people, try to pick up conversation when no one else is doing, include people who haven't spoken in a while, etc. I like it, I think this stuff is important. A social situation is a like a machine or a vehicle -- someone is gonna have to drive.

I have friends I hug, friends whose hands I shake, friends I slap on the back, friends I wave at, friends I point to... I just realized, I really like to have some type of physical cue before I start social interaction, otherwise I just feel weird.

man, i pretty much always introduce people in these situations. i tend to introduce people with a little blurb about them

"this is dan, we went to school together, good drummer etc :)" kinda stuff

not sure if it's a good look tbh but i figure more often than not it gives 'em something to talk about if i disappear for a bit

xxp This helpfulness lasts until about 11.30 when I start to get drunk and Ally and I start yelling at each other over the table and our group becomes the loudest in the bar. But I do start out with good intentions.

we are all so polite

i give a lot of hugs, but not on first introduction (usually).

but like elmo, i am fairly introverted and in the past I have been part of the problem. for the past six months I have been trying to be less socially awkward, and so far it's had pretty good results.

i think i've developed this pathetic little hand gesture wave thing that can turn into a hand shake or a head scratch depending on how the whole thing unfolds

i.e. i asked some dude about his rings the other day

Thought this thread was going to be about letters of introduction. Thought, yes we should definitely bring those back.

Crackle, thank YOU, because I was just gonna bring up the kind of introduction in which you say a bit about people to each other. I do that, but sometimes people act like it's really um labored or something? You feel you've just handed them the reins, socially speaking, and then you have to go refill the punch bowl or s/thing and they just stand there not looking at each other.

People are savages, basically.

xp oh god, re hand-shaking, I just put mine out there. If a person thinks it's weird or wasn't expecting it or something, fuck 'em.

i shake the hand of all my 6th graders every morning – i am convinced it makes a huge difference to the way they enter the room. but after i'm done shaking, i purell the shit out of my hands.

― they call him (remy bean), Friday, April 8, 2011 10:37 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i really like this remy!

I think I'm a little traumatized by handshakes because one of the social groups I was glancingly familiar with in high school developed this really elaborate handshake that they taught to everybody except for me

I really like to have some type of physical cue before I start social interaction, otherwise I just feel weird.

The only exception to this is with ppl I know aren't so physical. I used to be that way as a teenager and there are cultures (i.e. Japan) where rampant physical contact just isn't done and I'm polite enough to observe their rules. It feels colder to me though and less friendly.

Well sure, that's where the points/waves/head nods/etc come in

i definitely enjoy being given a bit of background info on the person i'm being introduced to, if only because it provides possible conversation starters. better still: being informed of other mutual acquaintances or interests imo.

Ah, got it. Yeah, those are physical cues and sometimes it's how you acknowledge ppl in a crowded room or across a street or something...

xpost

xp to elmo Well yeah, that IS the general idea. I'm not gonna say, like, "This is John, he likes golf and voting Republican" unless of course I intend for you to haet him and beat him up. I'm going to think of something..y'know, positive. Maybe even mutual. Something that expresses my liking for the person!

Like, "This is my awesome friend Jampanda, she lives in Chicago and teaches this kind of school and cooks a TON, and don't you love her cowboy boots? They are the best. There, now you say something."

i agree with most people in this thread - just INTRODUCE PEOPLE - it's so basic. it applies everywhere too - i've introduced people on club dancefloors where there's no expectation of conversation, but just so two people who don't know each other aren't all like "who is this random butting in on our dancing group"

haha wkiw jampanda

on dancefloors ESPECIALLY introductions are awesome, you can dance in the same space and have fun together, it changes everything

My gf has table arrangements like this for dinner parties where there are enough ppl who don't know each other and are mtg for the first time and she does this based on the likely affinity any two parties may have for each other. She and I never sit together at dinner parties so we can cover the table better as hosts, pouring wine, etc..., and making sure no-one is left out of the conversation or made to feel unimportant.

i think we are leading parallel lives. we never go so far as to actually prepare peoples' places in advance but this is the basic attitude.

hahaha Laurel

Yknow, to this day I feel guilty because when I met n/a and s_r_h, i did not introduce my husband. it was 5 years ago -- maybe almost 6?! -- and i'm still kind of embarrassed.

Everyone should just consider themselves lucky that I don't hug them. Just shake my hand and be polite! Maybe this standoffishness is a reaction to those cuddle parties we used to read so much about in the Chronicle of Our New York Times.

INTRODUCTION, n. A social ceremony invented by the devil for the gratification of his servants and the plaguing of his enemies. The introduction attains its most malevolent development in this century, being, indeed, closely related to our political system. Every American being the equal of every other American, it follows that everybody has the right to know everybody else, which implies the right to introduce without request or permission. The Declaration of Independence should have read thus:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, and the right to make that of another miserable by thrusting upon him an incalculable quantity of acquaintances; liberty, particularly the liberty to introduce persons to one another without first ascertaining if they are not already acquainted as enemies; and the pursuit of another's happiness with a running pack of strangers."

Typical Bierce

we never go so far as to actually prepare peoples' places in advance

She does. I think it's part Miss Manners, part avoiding social anxiety and part maximizing amiability.

i think seating arrangements are great -- it's easy to forget their benefits until you are seated surrounded by people with whom you have little in common, to whom you have even less to say

i have once or twice said "hi, i'm joe" to someone i was talking to and gotten almost no reaction - someone once just stared at me in response, didn't say their name or shake my hand or anything - so i really appreciate when friends do introductions because i can be shy about introducing myself. i am getting better about making myself do this when i'm the first party, though - it's probably not good form to assume two people know each other unless you are 100% certain they do

and yes, dancefloor introductions are awesome and i wish ppl would do it more (ppl including me)

I'm guilty of not introducing people and excluding people from the conversation, but certainly never with malice. It's rudeness by way of thoughtlessness. It's usually more absent-minded than anything else.

The only place people would get up in arms about it, though, is either on ILX or in an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. I can just hear Suzie saying, "We're standing right next to each other, and you don't even introduce us? What the FUCK is wrong with you, Larry? Get the fuck out of my house!"

It's usually more absent-minded than anything else.

i think you will find many people do not see a difference.

It makes a difference in how bad I feel about not doing it.

I like Laurel's way of doing this best. If I'm feeling shy, a plain introduction won't do.

kenan yes but you are pissing people off regardless. in the end, that's what it's about, not about how good or bad you feel about yourself.

On the rudeness scale, I'd say it's somewhere between not reaching for the check, and leaving someone hanging for a high five. It's a forgivable offense.

leaving someone hanging...it hurts so bad

best thing ever is when you introduce two people who know are really gonna hit it off

did this once with a friend of a friend and my sister and after about 2 minutes i was the third wheel, so i left. they spent the whole evening together and ended up in a relationship for a few years :)

haha crackle that is great -- i had the pleasure of doing that this weekend, introducing an old friend (who is a huge soap opera fan) to a wonderful lady i had just met (an erstwhile soap actress) -- both v high energy, friendly, hilarious ppl. he actually recognized her immediately, practically no introduction necessary!

Gayest party ever?

as someone who is fairly absent-minded, i HATE when people use absent-mindedness as an excuse for not fulfilling BASIC SOCIAL REQUIREMENTS. if i can do it so can you!

oh, totally, laurel! lesbian birthday dance party, in fact! xp

Some rules are v useful and exist specif for those of us who are absent-minded or kinda anti-social -- they provide a basic framework where you don't have to be supa-skilled at instinctive navigation in order to get by. Know this. Observe them.

xp elmo lollllls I knew that, somehow.

best thing ever is when you introduce two people who know are really gonna hit it off

Yeah, I agree that's satisfying. Conversely, though, maybe a reason you would neglect to introduce two people, especially in the course of a brief interaction, is because you know that they would do the opposite of hit it off.

Lex super otm

eh, introduce people and let 'em figure out if they hate each other

xp

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate, understand. I'm scatterbrained, but I have to be pretty doo-doo-faced to forego this simple and common courtesy.

if i ever fail to introduce a friend to another person, it's because i absolutely do not remember that person's name. sometimes i try the "hey, this is my friend so & so" gambit hoping that the familiar-but-unknown person will introduce themselves, but sometimes i just let it slide.

i hate not being the one who doesn't get introduced, but i try to give my friends the benefit of the doubt (ie maybe they are as forgetful as i am).

xp

That is the point at which you pull the Huck Finn "betcha you can't spell your name" gambit, at which point the person whose name you can't recall notes that they too read Huck Finn and/or saw the movie starring a young Elijah Wood.

or the third option, the person is actually illiterate and is shamed and embarrassed by your comment.

"no... I, I can't spell my name!" *sobs*

'Heck, I can spell my name in futhark."

Oh God this drives me nuts to the point that I've now made it a thing that I always remember to introduce people I've with even if I think they may have met before just in case. If someone fails to introduce me I'll just do it myself.

Oh and I've also been known to whisper to a good friend, "Hey, you never introduced us" if I think they've just forgotten and don't feel comfortable doing it myself.

I feel bad about this now when I think back on the past few big parties we've thrown where I end up getting swept up into the open door/take coats/offer drinks/omg more people @ door cycle and not introduced new people to the circles of acquaintances that know each other already.

That's okay, Jaq -- you sit everyone at your table and feed them until they can't stand up to walk home. No one is ever going to gainsay your hospitality, ever. EVER.

Aw, you are too kind, Laurel. I think I will make this "a thing" for the next big party (bbq maybe when rubyredd and ytth are in town?)

Unless it's a really quick conversation, if I'm in a group where not everyone knows each other, I will introduce people to each other if I know all the parties involved, or introduce myself, if I'm the odd one out. Often I'll be part of the conversation before I actually introduce myself, if I have something to contribute.

I don't know if it's a generational thing or a hipster thing at all. I grew up in a family that did a lot of socializing -- my grandfather was in politics, and my grandmother was a consummate hostess -- so, even though I was sullen and anti-social as a kid, I must have absorbed these conventions so that as an adult it just seems second nature to me.

I think of it from the other side, too, or try to. I know I've been in situations where someone walked up to a friend of mine in a bar and was all "Oh, whoa, it's you! How's it hangin'?" etc. And they talk for maybe two minutes, and I watch and listen with a smile on my face, and no one introduces us. I assume -- and I think it's usually fair to assume -- that if no introduction is offered by the mutual friend, none was needed, because they're only acquaintances really, or maybe explaining the relationship dynamic to you would end up being longer than the conversation will be anyway. Or they can wait until the stranger walks away and quickly say something like, "He used to live upstairs from me. I hated his dog." End of story. I hardly feel offended in such situations.

There should be a tacit three minute rule. If you talk to someone else for three minutes, you are required to introduce them around the table or whatever.

t's like when people say "I'm really bad with names" -- you're bad with names because you don't try/make an effort to remember people's names.

i'm bad with names when i have to learn a lot of different names at once. if you introduce me to one person, i'll remember that person's name. if you introduce me to six people, it all goes out the window.

yeah, there are definitely people that I or a friend end up talking to much longer than anticipated ... or desired ... though at a certain point in the conversation, I'll introduce my friend -- if I'm the one in the middle. Or if the conversation isn't something I feel like participating in or listening to, I'll just move on.

Smoking is really convenient for this. Like in the situation -- boorish person accosts friend, after a minute or so, I can say, "Oh hey, I'll be outside having a cigarette."

xp Srsly, and if you are introduced to a dozen people and you've had half that many beers already, forget about it.

you can always call them by the same name.

I call anyone whose name I don't know "Zardoz". (No I don't. But maybe i should.)

i was reading a book where this guy who had to talk to a lot of people for his job ended up calling everyone "son" or "bucko" or "dude" or whatever because he couldn't remember anyone's name.

things like this make me wish everyone was in a gang so all anyone would have to do is flash their gang sign and that would be the end of it.

[people milling about]
[unfamiliar dude walks by, flashes his sign]
"Oh, you're with that crew? No need to know your name or occupation for none of those things matter, for you are my brother. Would you like a raspberry torte? I will not be offended if you refuse, for I know many in your crew are strangely allergic to raspberries."

Would User-Name

like sometimes, I'll just use a common name based on the apparent age and gender of the person in question:

guy who looks like he's in his 30s = Chris
guy who looks like he's in his 20s = Matt

I feel bad about this now when I think back on the past few big parties we've thrown where I end up getting swept up into the open door/take coats/offer drinks/omg more people @ door cycle and not introduced new people to the circles of acquaintances that know each other already.

I don't mind if the host doesn't introduce me to people at parties because I know the host is totally busy. It's where I'm talking to someone else at a party or a bar and I'm left wondering whether I'm meant to be hanging on for the other half of the sentence from earlier, or if I should be butting into the conversation, or if I should just give up and find someone else or look sad in a corner.

I butt in.

I take the reins and create my own awkward social situations. I believe in personal responsibility.

hey kenan, what are your thoughts on smoking vis a vis these social situations?

'outside for a smoke' is a great place to meet people -- just forget your lighter

^^ seriously, or have one!

xp Oh, it came in VERY handy a few weeks ago, when I was at a small house party and talking to one friend, and a girl that he'd slept with a couple of times who was pissed off at him came in. "I could use a cigarette" was almost the best possible thing that there was to say to him at that point. "Care to join me?"

hahahaha!!!!

I don't always have time to introduce ppl at my parties but my friends are pretty good at doing this themselves. I may make a point of introducing ppl with common interests or friends.

Sometimes I am bummed out to realise how much is still ingrained from schooldays, like the lingering idea that if I earnestly say hi to someone who doesn't think I should say hi to them they'll run and tell all their friends and everyone I've ever met will laugh at me.

Then again, sometimes I find myself being obviously whispered about by grown adult strangers in a bar, or realise that the work clique of cool kids has decided I'm not a cool kid this week, and wonder if life actually has moved on from that point at all.

As you were.

i think in those small-town/small social-circle situations sometimes the person whos supposed to do the introductions doesnt realize that the other two people havent met! i feel like this happens to me a lot, where people assume i know someone who i dont; or i assume two people know each other, and they dont. (to combat it sometimes i try "XXX you know YYY, right?" or "XXX, have you met YYY?")

I think I will make this "a thing" for the next big party (bbq maybe when rubyredd and ytth are in town?)

― Jaq

lol yes plz! we are both terribly shy and socially awkward so this would be most helpful!

also: laurel otm about ppl with weak handshakes - a limp handshake just gives me the worst first impression of someone.

often wondered this: im male, when im introduced to someone (male or female) i shake their hands and say hello. a couple of times the female has flinched or made a quip about it like it's unusual. is it unusual? should i hug or (ugh) airkiss this person i've just met for the first time? wouldn't feel comfortable at all doing that, yet there is something slightly macho and overformal about a non-business male/female handshaking. what other options are there? could take the hand like a delicate flower and kiss it i suppose

I have a friend like that, Laurel. She has no talent for breaking the ice at all but once it's broken she's perfectly fine. She used to make me go talk to guys she fancied so I could then introduce her. It cracked me up. ― Si tu parles, tu meurs. Si tu te tais, tu meurs. Alors, dis et (Michael White)

I figured out why this is: Because if you approach someone w/o an introduction, it communicates that you were eager enough to go against social convention and make up some pretext to talk to them because of an unspoken attraction/interest. This is a lot of commitment for a casual social interaction.

Otoh if someone else introduces you, either as if by chance or by social obligation, you're giving away much less of your game by being there talking to them.

A man should not, in social settings, extend his hand in an offer of a handshake to a woman. It is the prerogative of the woman to make this overture first.

I can't remember the last time I shook someones hand in a non-business setting. I normally acknowledge people with a smile and nod. Definitely wouldn't be shocked at a hand being offered but I just might not be expecting it. Also, I wouldn't make a deal about it. Perhaps the ladies in question are using it as a conversation starter? Maybe they are intrigued by it, it could possibly be seen as a bold greeting. I dunno. I say keep it, if it suits your manner. It's polite and that can only be a good thing.

thats outright rude. on both parties.

― Zero pumps, massive boner (thebingo), Friday, April 8, 2011 2:52 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

WRT the original post; this is a pet hate. A couple of year ago I mixed, due to a partner, with new group of people that didn't introduce. If they did it was mockingly, and would trail off. As I didn't really know people it made me feel awful. This was coupled with lots of in-jokes, it was like they were speaking in code. In the end I just didn't bother. They obviously thought they were pretty cool but seriously, you're not 17.. sad.

xxxpost yeah there's definite logic to it, like i said, it makes me feel slightly uneasy - but what's the alternative? no handshake or contact or gesture at all seems rude, as if expressing disinterest, or distaste, toward them.

yeah im gonna keep doing it, my intention is to be polite and welcoming and as in most thing in life i think intention is 90% of what matters

a limp handshake just gives me the worst first impression of someone.

I've heard this all my life, from being congratulated for my firm handshake as a child onwards. Everyone hate a limp handshake. So why does anyone do it? Actually, I can't remember the last time I actually experienced one. I just HEAR AWFUL TELL OF THEM.

i don't think they do it on purpose

i actually feel like i overdo the introduction - i LOVE introducing people to one another.

Ime, limp handshakers are always women?

oh not always

I figure they just think handshaking isn't required of them or that it's unfeminine or something so they've feminized it by making themselves appear weak and useless. Irritates me on about 4 different levels.

Someone I met just last night gave me a cold, limp hand with no grip in it, to shake. So gross.

i do wonder if they are just that poor at gripping things, in which case o_O

I had a house call from an air conditioning contractor last week -- a big burly guy with a very weak, limp handshake. All I could think was "what's your dark secret."

okay, tell me if i'm crazy. this happened last year and i was surprised by how upset it made me. and how old-fashioned i apparently am. disclaimer: i'm a freak.

anyway, rufus has two teacher people in his classroom and one of them left in the middle of last year. so they got this person to fill in for the rest of the year. this person had been in the class with rufus for awhile and i still hadn't met them because maria does most of the picking up cuz i'm at the store at that time. so, finally, i went to pick rufus up from afterschool one day and this teacher i had never met was sitting in a chair in the afterschool room talking to rufus and i walked up and asked rufus if he was ready and he kept talking to the teacher - and he does love this person so that's cool - and the teacher not only didn't get up and introduce themselves to me, but pretty much blanked me all around! didn't even say hello! so, finally rufus was ready and we left. this bugged me FOR MONTHS. i mean, i would get really angry just thinking about it.

an enlightened person - or, you know, maria - would have just said "oh hi you must be so and so...", but i guess i'm not that enlightened. i just stood there for what felt like forever waiting for them to introduce themselves! i mean, we pay, like, money to send our kids there!

i think i'm finally over it. i'm okay with this person. they are young. and apparently really laid back.

You know it's coming when a woman gives you her hand with the fingers sort of pointing downward on an angle, like...like they're handing you the knuckle of their index finger.

Maybe the weak shakers of the world just barely, barely woke up? Have you ever tried to grasp anything when your first wake up? You have weak infant hands for a few minutes.

scott, sounds like it was a cue that this person missed -- not the best move. but u shoulda just been like "hi" indicating that it is only polite to observe the existence of one another

i would have like made it a point to go back and do the introduction if i got that angry about it

in other words: no you're not crazy (at all), but action is better than anger

Think of how women in movies hold out their hands for men to kiss, and you're most of the way there. Have to resist the urge to just grind their joints together when I take hold.

Scott, that sounds exceedingly...awkward. And angering. Do you think it's possible there was some element of not wanting to drop a convo with a kid just b/c an adult came into the room? I mean hypothetically it's not a bad thing to show kids that they matter too, but still...it becomes rude after like a minute not to acknowledge someone!

I had a house call from an air conditioning contractor last week -- a big burly guy with a very weak, limp handshake. All I could think was "what's your dark secret."

Well, at least that gives you a line to break the ice with.

I suppose you're not really looking to break the ice with an air conditioning contractor, mind.

oh i have

yeah, i think it was my fault really. i should have been the adult. it was just weird. like, i knew who it was by the description i had been given, but i kinda felt like saying: so, who are you? are you a parent? do you work here? i wanted them to make a move! but my 19th century code of conduct made me stay quiet.

Think of how women in movies hold out their hands for men to kiss, and you're most of the way there.

Yeah, I just don't get it, like, what kind of lives do these people lead?

Limp, clammy lives.

well it was definitely the other person's cue more than yours scott -- but if somebody misses a beat like that, i tend to confront it. otherwise i do get angry and walk away frustrated.

like, i've been invited to people's houses who i don't know and there have been times where they didn't introduce themselves to me - which would have made one or both of my grandmothers faint - and i will just say, hi, i'm scott, etc.

like haven't they observed other people shaking hands? Didn't their parents teach them this?

i mean, it is a teacher's job to like, do that introduction, in my opinion, even if it's awkward. life is awkward a lot - might as well get it out in the open!

I would think the teacher would do an introduction just to confirm that you are in fact the parent of the child under their care

lol ^^^^

Have you ever tried to grasp anything when your first wake up? You have weak infant hands for a few minutes.

<3 Totally. I always thought this was just me, if I even thought about it at all.

I must try this tomorrow morning.

well, its a good school, but very laid back about certain things. and i get shy in those places. and feel uncomfortable. nobody really introduces themselves there. they are all very comfortable in their utopian dream school. which is cool. really, it is. but i do feel like an interloper sometimes.

and about the hand-shaking thing, i've definitely gotten strange reactions from women when i go to shake their hand. that look of surprise! i figure they must have seen movies or something where people did this.

Is it like Maggie G in that movie where she makes them leave the stroller on the porch?

The utopian school, I mean.

well, its a good school, but very laid back about certain things. and i get shy in those places. and feel uncomfortable. nobody really introduces themselves there. they are all very comfortable in their utopian dream school. which is cool. really, it is. but i do feel like an interloper sometimes.

use that to your advantage and just start taking stuff; when someone confronts you, say "oh, I'm sorry, I figured that since you didn't introduce yourself I was invisible and I got a little carried away"

i don't have any problem grasping things with my hands when i first wake up; grasping things with my brain is a different story

I get weak handshakes ALL THE TIME from students -- it has been explained to me in a number of ways, the most convincing of which is: Strong handshake = sign of aggression. Limp = peaceful. It's also a culturally USian thing to equate strong handshake with some sort of moral strength (or lack thereof) ime. Lots of VERY strong (in attitude and general fortitude) people have given me VERY weak handshakes.

sometimes when confronted with a weak handshake I imagine shouting "YOU DISHONOR ME" and smashing the offender's hand with a mallet

(I spend way too much subconscious energy on making myself laugh, I think)

That is the correct American way to assess a situation and handle things.

Strong handshake = sign of aggression. Limp = peaceful. It's also a culturally USian thing to equate strong handshake with some sort of moral strength (or lack thereof) ime.

Would never have occurred to me. Will think about.

I am clearly avoiding shaking Asian hands in some kind of appalling racist way.

yeah, but i don't see handshakes as being that binary. The limp shakes that bug me are like the person is putting next to no effort into shaking your hand. Someone can have a light grip but still put a satisfactory amount of effort into the handshake.

YES, it's the ones who just hold their fingers out and you have to shake them yourself. Not trying to win any contests of strength here, but shaking hands is not a one-person thing.

they don't really want to do it! i think that's the thing.

If confronted with static finders, you should just place your own set next to them and see who cracks first.

they have this Madge-you're-soaking-in-it-Palmolive hand position!

finders = fingers

exactly what I was thinking, Alba

If confronted with static finders, you should just place your own set next to them and see who cracks first

or just use your index finger to tickle their palm for a while

"... we were married 6 weeks later"

In handshaking nations, limp handshakes are passive-aggressive.

the palm-tickle is one of the best ways ever to freak someone out btw

especially if you look directly in their eyes while you do it

And raise your eyebroaws a little.

i suppose you could also ask them if that's the way they give handjobs.

then lower your eyes twice suggestively to reveal that your penis is out

what if you're a woman?

works best if you are female

xp: damn

u crazy bastards women don't shake hands!

that kids in the hall sketch with kevin mcdonald as mr. stevenson has left me forever equating handshakes/exchanging business cards to dogs sniffing butts. "what's so funny about my card?" "nothing..chortle"

It's a tough thing to calibrate grip to match your opponent -- It's like playing chess against a kid -- you don't want to play at full strength or you'll crush his spirit! but sometimes that kid is a secret grandmaster! What's the worst is when this kid is the one hiring you.

i feel like fist bumps and high-fives, despite their inherent violence, are less fraught with peril (and probably more hygenic?)

in black metal if you survive knife attack or immolation you have been "greeted"

so the whole varg thing was really a housewarming party?

woulda been if Euronymous hadn't died like a bitch

I'm here to report that "vigorous handshaking practice" is not part of the ESL curriculum in most institutions.

when I great people I just punch them in the stomach and rip out a chunk of hair

I'm partial to grabbing someone's hand and head-butting them

when I great people I just punch them in the stomach and rip out a chunk of hair

― BIG YNGWIE aka the malmsteendriver (Neanderthal)

ahahahahahahha

I'm partial to grabbing someone's hand and head-butting them

― Concatenated without abruption (Michael White), Thursday, May 5, 2011 6:24 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark

OMFG WESLEY WILLIS IS ALIVE!

btw i like a strong handshake as much as -- maybe more! -- than the next person. i just want to stand up for the character of the weak handshakers because they're good people too even if they can seem like slimy weasels to those who value a strong/assertive grip.

I thought it was the firm handshake that was the mark of the weasel? back-slapping used-car salesmen patent medicine hucksters, pumping your hands and calling you friend and so forth. the weak handshake was for glassy-eyed laudanum addicts.

I've been told I have a "pussy-assed handshake"