if we had captured OBL, should we have killed him?

im p sure if the prosecution had kidnapped someone from a foreign country, the trial would be voided

without getting rumsfeldian, it is difficult to classify osama as a regular criminal

Definitely anti-death penalty. And as such I consider this killing wrong. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial and a punishment, just not death.

it is difficult to classify osama as a regular criminal

True, but the punishment was without trial. Sorry, I just think it's wrong.

Nathalie, what if he were killed because he was violently resisting arrest and endangering the Seals sent to capture him?

wow according to Wikipedia we are one of the few countries in our position who still uses the death penalty in treason cases

that shouldn't surprise me but it does

Nathalie, what if he were killed because he was violently resisting arrest and endangering the Seals sent to capture him?

Yes, that seems to be getting overlooked. Voted #3 obviously.

also where is the "I'm not anti-death penalty but if captured alive he shouldn't be killed" option

Michael, that is something else. Then of course I would understand. Was that indeed the case? Ask Obama, he was watching this "show." But come on, honestly, that could be avoided anyway.

Capturing him and then killing him in captivity would be the worst possible thing that could have happened, ahead of trial I mean.

Capturing him and inprisoning him for life I would've been down with.

In this situation, I'm not so sure. Does the fact that he was in Pakistan change things? What if they'd found him in the middle of Afghanistan, where we're technically at war?

we're one of the few civilized countries who uses the death penalty period

option 3 obv

dude we are bankrolling "Jersey Shore", I don't think we can continue to pretend we're civilized

In this situation, I'm not so sure. Does the fact that he was in Pakistan change things? What if they'd found him in the middle of Afghanistan, where we're technically at war?

― Matt DC, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:37 AM (30 seconds ago)

shhhh this is the first time anyone from the us military has set foot in pakistan, just a one time thing

dude we are bankrolling "Jersey Shore", I don't think we can continue to pretend we're civilized

― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:39 AM (4 seconds ago)

well duh

hm - I

also where is the "I'm not anti-death penalty but if captured alive he shouldn't be killed" option
--Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP)

lol I thought about it but it was too tempting for joke votes

I mean, how do they justify this? Honestly, I think this whole show is disgusting.

we're a country where college students eat Taco Bell at 3 am.

why wouldnt you kill OBL if you're not anti-death penalty?

(I am talking about the killing, not The Killing which was just mediocre.)

Learn some tricks from him?

I guess truthers could argue that hd

why wouldnt you kill OBL if you're not anti-death penalty?
--estkella (k3vin k.)

truther vote

If we had captured him, we'd have sb'ed him.

I've become an opponent of the death penalty in the last ten years, but not so much that I mourn the chance to try Osama in court, and especially not after the Obama Justice Department has shown its ineptitude in handling the politics.

On the other hand, the death of Saddam Hussein was disgusting.

Because you might believe in affording people the right to a free trial... then you kill them? (xxxp)

Capturing him and then killing him in captivity would be the worst possible thing that could have happened, ahead of trial I mean.

otm

i think it's better for the world that they just capped him

he'd garner sympathy in prison, or, given that he'd not exactly be in gen-pop, there'd be anger over his special treatment

I mean, how do they justify this? Honestly, I think this whole show is disgusting.

― Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

are you talking about jersey shore still? because it think it's kind of easy to justify killing osama bin laden

otm

I am anti-death penalty in general but mostly for financial reasons and the possibility of executing an innocent person however small the likelihood of that may actually be. Since neither of those reasons would really apply here I do think it's difficult to classify him as an ordinary criminal.

he'd garner sympathy in prison

No doubt, he'd be getting marriage proposals by the dozen

i think it's better for the world that they just capped him

From a geo-political point of view this is a rather bold statement. How is it better for *the world*?

why wouldnt you kill OBL if you're not anti-death penalty?

To interrogate him and then try him and let him be an example for the rest of his years.

The reason they didn't avoid killing him was because they werre conduicting a raid in a sovereign nation on a house that was purported w/o confirmation to be his by four helicopters carrying two dozen soldiers. Had anything not gone well, there would have been hell to pay for Obama so I'm sure that they conducted the raid according to normal procedures (the official US policy is not to kill anyone who surrenders peacefully) and bin Laden very naturally decided to die fighting instead of becoming a pawn to his enemies forever.

i think it's better for the world that they just capped him

Not necessarily. You are looking at it from your western viewpoint.

And of course one can defend it, but it doesn't make it right from a legal standpoint. Everyone deserves a trial, no?

bin Laden very naturally decided to die fighting instead of becoming a pawn to his enemies forever

Also, virgins

why wouldnt you kill OBL if you're not anti-death penalty?

Why would you? Not being anti-death penalty does not automatically mean you think every criminal or enemy of the country should be put to death if they are taken into custody. This isn't a rigid binary decision.

You don't have to be across-the-board against the death penalty to think life imprisonment is a more appropriate sentence than death in some cases; besides, one could argue that the more vindictive, crueler sentence would be to keep him alive but locked up for the rest of his life if you really want to work the righteous vengeance angle.

Although the downside to keeping him in prison is that 20 years from now our kids would be wearing ironic Obama t-shirts to their college classes, I don't think any of us would want that.

oh shit

OSAMA

you can't trust the state with the power to kill people and the death penalty is totally unacceptable and barbaric but i feel weirdly ok with some navy seal or whoever making a decision in a firefight; i think the only entity that can have the necessary moral authority in this situation is an individual acting individually. in the same way that i'd understand if you killed, like, your child's murderer, even if i don't think the state should. it's a sin but we're just people.

a huge public criminal trial in new york city would have made me happy but everyone knows that the u.s. doesn't walk the walk on that one, so oh well.

brb, jumping out a window

hahaha

what happened with Saddam always left a bad taste in my mouth, i know he was a bad dude but considering the muddled and absurd circumstances under which he was removed from power and eventually captured, the swift trial and execution didn't really feel like "justice has been served," even he was technically being punished for his crimes way back in the '80s. so even as apples-and-oranges as it is, it's hard to think of OBL theoretically being captured alive without taking that into account.

also, this is admittedly not a 'fair' or moral way of looking at things, but just think about what a drawn out spectacle it could've been to have Osama alive, him being on trial but admitting no wrongdoing or recognizing the validity of the court, making pronouncements to his followers, etc. this kind of quick and sudden end without a bunch of public debate may not give anyone "closure" or solve any problems, but it does kind of close that book and maybe let us look forward to other problems and/or see how much of an issue Al Qaeda or terrorism in general will be post-Osama.

xxpost Oh no, it still works, DJP. heh

let him be an example for the rest of his years.

he'd be an example of what a mean bunch of meanies the western democracies are, locking up a great man like osama

From a geo-political point of view this is a rather bold statement. How is it better for *the world*?

― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:47 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

AQ has killed people on most continents iirc -- or course, he wasn't the leader of all islamist terror gangs everywhere, but i take it that on the whole islamist terror gangs are a bad thing and osama was a big cheese in that world

You are looking at it from your western viewpoint.

you're a moron

Naturally I am.

I guess I can reveal to you all now, I am actually Ann Coulter

sorry for the long deception

just think about what a drawn out spectacle it could've been to have Osama alive, him being on trial but admitting no wrongdoing or recognizing the validity of the court, making pronouncements to his followers, etc.

he would have looked like a sick and crazy old man and it would have been clear that his enemies had nothing to hide or fear. it's not like his "followers" are gonna abandon him because he didn't yell some stuff about "feminized jews" on tv.

in the same way that i'd understand if you killed, like, your child's murderer, even if i don't think the state should. it's a sin but we're just people.

I'm no fan of the death penalty but I find this logic dangerously retrograde. Vigilantism is not a step forward.

that explains all the sexual tension between you and ethan (xpost)

Nonsense, DJP, you have repeatedly showed yourself to be far, far more clever than that harpy.

you leave my boo out of this, Glenn

oops I mean "some dude"

I'm anti-Death Penalty, I thought the execution of Saddam Hussein was wrong, if Bin Laden had been taken alive I'd be anti executing him, I've got no real concerns about whether the guy was caught shot resisting capture or not. It was a combat situation afaic

you can't trust the state with the power to kill people and the death penalty is totally unacceptable and barbaric but i feel weirdly ok with some navy seal or whoever making a decision in a firefight;

― difficult listening hour, dinsdag 3 mei 2011 16:49 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Correct me if I'm wrong (can't find the Obama speech in full right now), but didn't Obama clearly voice that OBL was killed after there had been a firefight? That can't be a slip-up, surely, with his lawyers and advisers looking at every word before he read it out.

i'm not condoning vigilantism! some things are just easier to forgive than others.

xxxxxp wow

you're a moron

― lloyd banks knew my father (history mayne), dinsdag 3 mei 2011 16:51 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

Come now, is this really necessary?

smdh

I'm anti-Death Penalty, I thought the execution of Saddam Hussein was wrong, if Bin Laden had been taken alive I'd be anti executing him, I've got no real concerns about whether the guy was caught shot resisting capture or not. It was a combat situation afaic

My thoughts entirely

xpost Stating the obvious. lol. Don't worry, I am too stupid to get it.

sorry, that was rude: you're a moron from my western viewpoint.

oh i assumed option 1 meant death penalty after trial, obviously no one outside the washington times editorial page would advocate killing him in captivity pre-trial. kind of very illegal, too

1000000 xps

Correct me if I'm wrong (can't find the Obama speech in full right now), but didn't Obama clearly voice that OBL was killed after there had been a firefight? That can't be a slip-up, surely, with his lawyers and advisers looking at every word before he read it out.

well we don't actually know what happened and we're never going to. i'm just saying that in certain cases and this was one i am ok with letting judgement go.

Crap - my other post ended up missing a large piece when I C&Pd it while changing something.

I'm surprisingly OK with the fact that he was killed. Yes life in prison would have been a "more vindictive, crueler" sentence in many ways but I'm just not sure how that would have happened practically in this instance. Somehow him being dead just feels more "right" to me even though I haven't really figured out why yet.

Afer a firefight. That doesn't mean there wasn't going to be another firefight?

saddam lynching was pretty gross though.

Not necessarily. You are looking at it from your western viewpoint.

xp ah i see HM has already called you a 'moron' for this which is a little bit much

not to have another go at you, but, you're not? everyone in the thread is!

those outside the west don't have much trouble with death penalties either. some, anyway.

saddam lynching was pretty gross though.

― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:59 AM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark

exactly! who did that one, eh?

Yes, it was a stupid thing to say. I... I guess what I meant was: for us he's bad, but for a big part of the world he was seen a good thing? Is that making more sense?

well we don't actually know what happened and we're never going to.

Didn't Obama and co watched this? So it must have been taped, right?

(Yes, I'm trying to crawl out of that cesspool of stupidity.)

Dunno if he was a good thing for a big part of the world anymore, and anyway, people are complicated.

I'm okay with him having been killed in a military operation. If he'd come out with his hands up, my preference would have been for life in a cell. (have shifted from grudgingly pro to firmly anti death penalty over the last few years)

for a big part of the world he was seen a good thing? Is that making more sense?

not... really

I thought the execution of Saddam Hussein was wrong

I didn't shed a single tear for him and it did make me a little uncomfortable but I'm pretty sure he was really executed for the same reason that a successful revolution beheads a king; leave there absolutely no chance whatsoever for him to be a future rallying point or pretender to his previous place in govmnt.

Lots of Iraqis were happy that Saddam was disposed, but look how shocked Cheney and co. were when Iraqis didn't greet our soldiers with tulips and candy.

"after a firefight" implies they were actually using fire to fight each other. obama is a harvard-educated lawyer, he doesn't use words lightly. all of which literally begs the question: why are our brave soldiers using aerosol cans and lighters to fight these depraved monsters. GET A GRIP, OBAMA.

We don't know the size of that "big part of the world" really. With the Middle East in such a state of flux right now you can't presume anything along those lines. They might have agreed with (some of) Bin Laden's stated aims but they're finding their own ways to go about them that have little to do with violent jihad that I can see. My guess would be that much of the Muslim world has other things on their mind at present and isn't as bothered about Bin Laden as we think.

Didn't Obama and co watched this? So it must have been taped, right?

― Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:01 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

ugh not looking forward to wikileaks or whoever leaking the video footage

not... really

I give up. ;-) You were right, it was very much wrong choice of words.

We don't know the size of that "big part of the world" really.

Ah, I was thinking wrongly. I assumed he was a much bigger leader than I assumed.

(Urgh, I will stop posting. Can't even form sentences. Migraines.)

The dumping the body at sea thing is the part that's freaking me out a bit

He should have been flung into outer space, like Megatron in the Transformers movie.

Or Scotty from Star Trek

xpost furiously checking google maps to see if he's floating around somewhere.

i think we need to try to separate, as much as possible, the legal and moral questions (they run right together tho) of what should have been done after a capture. because having a bunch of SEALs running around outside islamabad is illegal on its face. so holding him anywhere for any length of time wouldn't have been legal either.

i guess you could uh i dunno, legalize it after the fact btw pakistan or the UN or something but i'm kind of talking out my ass here. that kind of solution runs into the politics of all these countries which are not cooperative in any sense.

i suppose it's a huge moral get-out clause in this question, but OBL wasn't going to be taken alive!

noodle vague otm

also don't really get perry's logic where he'd be cool with locking up osama for life (assuming his trial was fair) but thinks some dude who kills his ex wife and her boyfriend (or whoever is the average american death penalty recipient) can die

The dumping the body at sea thing is the part that's freaking me out a bit

Bet you someone out there is mental enough to try and find him. I mean, how big can the sea be, really?

We don't know the size of that "big part of the world" really. With the Middle East in such a state of flux right now you can't presume anything along those lines. They might have agreed with (some of) Bin Laden's stated aims but they're finding their own ways to go about them that have little to do with violent jihad that I can see. My guess would be that much of the Muslim world has other things on their mind at present and isn't as bothered about Bin Laden as we think.

― Matt DC, dinsdag 3 mei 2011 17:05 (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

^^ The sentiment of reason. I think partly young muslims will be standing up against their own governments instead of the Evil West, and seem to want to choose democracy and equality, which is fantastic. And going by some lol-street interviews most people (Libya, Jemen etc) are all "Bin Laden got killed? Who cares?! Our president/king/leader needs to be next!"

I don't think Bin Laden still was all that, his influence seemed to have already disintegrated. He was at most a "spiritual/ideological leader" when he died, I hear a lot of people say. Not a real leader calling the shots.

Still no sign of Atlantis afaik. (xp)

he was still pretty rich, right?

damn I am totally going to try to find Osama's body

The Boys from Brazil 2: The Search for Osama (2014)....in development

The Hunt for Dead Osama

Should have been captured and sent to the ICC (oh wait USA never signed up to that)

Meryl Streep as Osama
Joe Pesci as KSM

also don't really get perry's logic where he'd be cool with locking up osama for life (assuming his trial was fair) but thinks some dude who kills his ex wife and her boyfriend (or whoever is the average american death penalty recipient) can die

Maybe because that isn't my logic...? Don't try putting words in my mouth, you aren't very good at it.

i think we need to try to separate, as much as possible, the legal and moral questions (they run right together tho) of what should have been done after a capture. because having a bunch of SEALs running around outside islamabad is illegal on its face. so holding him anywhere for any length of time wouldn't have been legal either.

yeah I (probably naively) didn't think this would become a legal discussion! I mean I purposely started w/ a ridiculous premise (we captured him alive + we're voting on it) to try and make this about whether or not you think a state has the right to execute someone.

well that in and of itself is kind of a silly question because, right now, the state DOES have the right to execute someone

it's like saying "I don't believe in religion"

it's the old question of whether you can be 'at war' with a terrorist gang. when it's supported by secret services without the full approval of said secret service's nominal civilian bosses in government. there aren't firm precedents for this.

again - moral right not legal right. obv we have the legal right.

actually maybe not 'obv' but that's not even the discussion this was supposed to be

^^

Generally? No. As I said earlier I'm anti-death penalty. That said, Osama was not your ordinary "someone" and, although maybe it shouldn't, this somehow just feels v different for me and I'm sort of glad it went down the way it did. Ok that sounds horrible but it's true.

so this is a death penalty thread?

i dunno i have kind of a BS position on that tbf. sure, the 'state' has the 'right' to kill provided the right evidence moral reasoning circumstances blah blah. but it's really expensive and prosecutors are political grandstanding dickholes and people get railroaded and have shitty defenses if they are poor. so let's not have a death penalty.

i guess i'd say the death penalty is not a priori immoral but it, like, 99.9% is

it feels like there's a "you all saw that, right? he totally hit me first" thing going on where the assumption is that most of the world recognizes that the U.S. had a justifiable score to settle with Osama, like how much would the UN or any other nation's government have really protested or intervened in whatever we chose to do with/to the guy?

so this is a death penalty thread?

yes! note the poll options!

I mean people can talk about whatever the hell they want but at least vote w/ that in mind

x-posts That's a totally valid position and not BS imo.

had he been captured i would hope to see life imprisonment.

which is why i am so glad things went down this way.

yes

Glad this fucker is dead. It has nothing to do with the death penalty.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/The_Dirty_Dozen:_The_Next_Mission

voted 2!

i have to, since i stated that i'm anti-death-penalty, but don't find myself having a problem with what happened to OBL

there's a lot of absurdity running under every aspect of this event tho...

haha i thought this was pretty obviously a death penalty thread - the options are "i'm pro death penalty and would be cool with executing him" "i'm anti-death penalty but could make an exception for this dude" (imo these people are pro-death penalty but w/e) and "i'm anti death penalty and would not have been down w/ executing him"

I'm anti-death penalty and I wish I had been the guy that pulled the trigger.

haha xp w/ iatee

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/beyond-bin-laden-ten-top-terrorists-taken-down/

boy this seems to happen a lot

haha i thought this was pretty obviously a death penalty thread

even if osama were a regular murderer (he isn't), what other aspects of the operation strike you as consonant with the norms of US law enforcement?

btw, joeks, guys

wow beitullah mehsud had some pretty hair on him.

voted 2!

i have to, since i stated that i'm anti-death-penalty, but don't find myself having a problem with what happened to OBL

there's a lot of absurdity running under every aspect of this event tho...

― goole, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:27 AM (4 minutes ago)

wait no i don't have a problem w/ what happened either! (at least, not with the event itself free from the strings of whether we should have been in pakistan.) as far as we know, we tried to take him, he and his boys strapped up, and we had to take them out. i don't think anyone expected the seals to like go and try tackling OBL amid the fire they were receiving because they didn't want to kill him

it certainly was a little strange - to me - to see the secretary general of the UN heralding this as something great. you'd think if anybody was going to lodge a tiny caveat to a totally illegal, covert assassination op that broke every rule of international sovereignty it would be the guy in charge of international order.

wow beitullah mehsud had some pretty hair on him.

Troy Polamalu, eat yr heart out

i mean, look at this guy.

http://afghanistan.foreignpolicyblogs.com/files/2009/03/baitullah-mehsud.jpg

he's like a jihadi troy polamalu

xp loooool

hahaha

seems kind of a non-sequitur, enrique. anyway, this kind of shit goes down with "normal law enforcement" in the US all the time, probably a lot more recklessly so!

even if osama were a regular murderer (he isn't)

he's a super-murderer, so he gets super-justice, lol

just as 'we'll never know' what happened in the room, nor will we know about the US-pakistan relation in sufficient detail to judge the legality of this mission. it's not a very sovereign-y place, and the govt has to disapprove of the US's repeated violations of its borders and involvement in its affairs. smells a little ratty.

this kind of shit goes down with "normal law enforcement" in the US all the time

the navy seals do kill-missions all the time in the US and no-one ever gets in trouble for it?

no, the police do kill missions all the time is what k3v was trying to say

swat teams?

perry - u mad

blimey

i don't understand british interjections

anyway again i have no idea what your question was even addressing wrt my post you quotes

quoted*

haha but you just confirmed what I said

I believe it is u who mad

arsebiscuits

crivens

We just Ned to show up and exclaim, "heavens!"

no you goof, you tried to get back at me for "putting words in your mouth" by equating this "kill mission" (which the OBL mission wasn't) with what swat teams do. swat teams have guns too, they can return fire if they receive it too, and we've all read plenty of stories of much messier endings than this one

again, not sure what this has to do with this being a death penalty thread, which is what enrique quoted

MW otm, Ned suspiciously absent in all this OBL-talk, too!

no you goof, you tried to get back at me for "putting words in your mouth" by equating this "kill mission" (which the OBL mission wasn't) with what swat teams do. swat teams have guns too, they can return fire if they receive it too, and we've all read plenty of stories of much messier endings than this one

again, not sure what this has to do with this being a death penalty thread, which is what enrique quoted

Actually, I was correcting Enrique's mischaracterization of what you wrote and not really thinking about the stupid example you made up earlier.

What is being challenged here is your hyperbolic assertion that American police do this type of thing "all the time" which isn't true unless you live in a Michael Bay movie. Also, it kind of undercuts the assertion that I am unsuccessfully putting words in your mouth when you then go on to explicitly say the exact same words!

this "kill mission" (which the OBL mission wasn't)

ha i dunno if i'd say this with any confidence. like, i bet they were all going "capture" with a bunch of air-quotes

re. resisting capture, etc -- the story was yesterday that obama had shown a kind of courage by calling up a helicopter mission rather than a drone or bomb attack. so you could paint that as 'he wanted to capture him ideally' or 'he wanted to be sure'. either way i think osama's chances were slim. i don't think this was like a regular law enforcement thing, though i don't live in the US and i guess it might be more like 'elite squad' than im imagining.

totally opposed to the death penalty, but glad we didn't have to answer this question.

i'm not sure what good, if any, prison or whatever would serve in this "case" other than taking someone off the streets who's seems increasingly irrelevant politically (osama who?) and is apparently unable to operate in any practical way.

interested to read more ilxors experiences of special ops.

this "kill mission" (which the OBL mission wasn't)

ha i dunno if i'd say this with any confidence. like, i bet they were all going "capture" with a bunch of air-quotes

― goole, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:58 AM (41 seconds ago)

haha oh i know believe me. since we're never going to know i'm basically just entertaining hypotheticals, which is the point of this thread i guess

police violence is pretty common, whether it's "all the time" is whether you want to characterize it that way! so is calling it "pretty common" but you get me.

cops in full combat gear like to think they're delta guys tho. fact!

re. resisting capture, etc -- the story was yesterday that obama had shown a kind of courage by calling up a helicopter mission rather than a drone or bomb attack. so you could paint that as 'he wanted to capture him ideally' or 'he wanted to be sure'. either way i think osama's chances were slim. i don't think this was like a regular law enforcement thing, though i don't live in the US and i guess it might be more like 'elite squad' than im imagining.

― lloyd banks knew my father (history mayne), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:58 AM (1 minute ago)

i don't think it was "like" a regular law enforcement thing either, given that he was an internationally wanted criminal likely to he armed and extremely dangerous and the people carrying out the mission were members of the military and not domestic police. i don't think we have much of a disagreement on this front. on to the next 1

Pretty sure Bin Laden is the only case in the world where the US could just fly helicopters into another country, assasinate him, get out, and have most of the world go "yeah okay fair play".

"if we captured him" big bullshit even for D.C.

The key piece missing from the photo of the dead Osama bin Laden was an Obama 2012 bumpersticker taped over his mouth. But that would violate the equal-time rule, and we'd have to tape Trump, Romney and Palin stickers over dead mouths throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan. First we need new monsters to fear, then assassinate. Bin Laden's a tough act to follow. But I trust our owners to find suitable replacements.

what...?

I'd vote for a sentence of long-term public humiliation. Like maybe they could have wheeled him around on some kind of world tour of public squares, with an extended residency in NYC. Woulda cherished the opportunity to chuck a rotten cantaloupe or old shoe at the dude.

do you even need to ask, dan?

Dennis Perrin, human shield.

http://tinyurl.com/5ufkmyt

"This was a kill operation."

I think that when you make Bill Maher seem rational and Colin Quinn seem funny, it is time to take a long hard look in the mirror and dwell on life choices.

I feel like I have said this exact same thing before.

right on. after the victim gets revenge, the only person left to turn the gun on is themselves, right morbs?

MSNBC was pretty much what Tea Partiers say they are last night, so maybe their fans should take a long hard look in the mirror and dwell on life choices.

if you take every criticism personally maybe pick someone to speak for you who isn't a numbskull

I'm anti-death penalty and there don't need to be any exceptions

^^^voted.

altho I'm not really shedding too many tears over him being killed in a military action. doubt he would have allowed himself to be taken alive, that would run counter to his ideology

xp

nyuk nyuk nyuk

xp

MSNBC needs to be what Tea Partiers say it is, ie actually left-wing.

That's the most numbskull Perrin excerpt I've ever seen BTW.

should Dubya be taken alive?

Dubya should be in Gitmo imho

being waterboarded by his dad

double tap

with Barbara Bush sitting on his face.

first he put up a fight, then he was unarmed, now he "participated" but did not "return fire".

first he uses "a wife" as a human shield and she dies. now she's not dead, and wasn't used as a human shield.

first it was one bullet to the left eye, then one bullet to the chest and one to the head, then two bullets to the head. now back to "bullets in the chest and head".

i mean obviously none of this is here nor there but you'd have thought they'd have a version of the facts at the beginning that they could stick to.

maybe it was faked, just like the moon landing and Obama's birth certificate

well speaking as an enthusiast of conspiracy theories when the facts shift like this it's like sterno to an alcoholic

MSNBC was pretty much what Tea Partiers say they are last night, so maybe their fans should take a long hard look in the mirror and dwell on life choices.

the difference being I'm not posting quotes from MSNBC as food for thought because I think MSNBC sucks

really, really want a gif of Barbara Bush shitting on Dubya's face.

yeah Dan, I was not accusing u of thinking otherwise

when the facts shift like this it's like sterno to an alcoholic

I'm pretty sure that, sidestepping the legality of targeted assassination of known criminals/enemy combattants, they went in knowing there was basically no chance to take him alive and getting the heck out of Pakistan as quickly as possible was u&k so the took him out and took off.

heard some news reports about the rest of the not-dead household (women? some kids?) sort of... drifting into the woodwork. strange stuff.

i am shocked that my government was not being entirely truthful regarding this incident!

really, really want a gif of Barbara Bush shitting on Dubya's face.

― ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:40 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

read this as "sitting" and was like "ew!" and then i read it correctly and now i'm still like "ew!"

I believe that would be in keeping w/ our president's description of her as "the remarkable Barbara Bush"

also cmon, "an Obama 2012 bumpersticker taped over his mouth" is a total lol.

can't believe perrin 'went there' and suggested a politician might use something that happened under his command to improve his electoral chances

really pulling back the veil

how's yr veil doin'

really, really want a gif of Barbara Bush shitting on Dubya's face.

― ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:40 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

read this as "sitting" and was like "ew!" and then i read it correctly and now i'm still like "ew!"

― tInA-yOtHeRs (donna rouge), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 12:49 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

me too lol

on the low I heard he shot himself

I am trying very hard to make an RHCP "hate all the dissed them but shot all that like them" joke and it's just not gelling ;_;

Osama bin Laden RIP
its sad he was a drummer

blimey

― lloyd banks knew my father (history mayne)

i don't understand british interjections

― estkella (k3vin k.)

NB: Bob's my great uncle, on my mom's side.

i dunno guys, i find myself *~curiously unmoved~* by the death of osama bin laden.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

wow

i didnt vote in this poll but i basically agree w/ everyone else? im anti-death penalty but im pretty "okay" with the way this went down.

bet some truly awful papers about osama and 'the state of exception' are being written right now

max is that really how "everyone else" voted?

I think he was referring to the fact that several people stated that as their general feeling about things in the posts itt.

uh i dont know--the poll options dont ask if people are "'okay' with the way this went down." i meant "most of the people commenting on this thread."

right duh

duh

im super surprised by the outcome, in a way, though i guess IF we had captured him...

but "I'm not anti-death penalty (in theory) and obv we should have killed him" is poorly phrased

im far more comfortable with him dying as he did than in some formal, "legal" way

yes exactly

Shoulda put him in Riker's, general population

american me 2: the osama years

should've marooned him on ceti alpha V IMO

very surprised! I really thought this would be more or less 1/3 1/3 1/3

Osama bin Laden RIP
its sad he was a drummer

Also, he was an Arsenal fan.

on the low I heard he shot himself

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

bet some truly awful papers about osama and 'the state of exception' are being written right now

― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

and a hearty FUCK YEAH to ILX's hardline anti-death-penalty stance

I voted for "I'm not anti-death penalty (in theory) and obv we should have killed him" mostly because of the "in theory" part. I'm against the death penalty in the United States bc of institutional imperfections, corruption of justice, similar stuff, but in theory I believe that the punishment of certain crimes should be death. Osama Bin Laden is, in my eyes, one of these cases. In my perfect system the death penalty would always be an option for justice but one that is rarely (to the point of never) used. For example Israel only using the death penalty once in its history, on Eichmann. I'm also happier that Bin Laden was killed the way he was and prefer that to the theoretical thread question.

For example Israel only using the death penalty once in its history

haha yeah...technically...