Gays and Sports

I've noticed that recently there has been a lot of intersection of the worlds of pro and college sports and LGBT (mostly just gay, really) people and issues. There has been a lot of reporting on some players' or coaches' homophobic comments (Tim Hardaway being the awfulest), which can be attributed to increased attention from the media, but there has also been a trend toward players and teams actively supporting gay causes. Some examples:

- The Chicago Blackhawks' Brent Sopel carried the team's 2010 Stanley Cup in the Chicago Pride parade
- Toronto Maple Leafs Mgr. Brian Burke is outspoken in his support of gay rights, and his late gay son Brendan Burke is now kind of an icon of a gay hockey player.
- SF Giants make an "It Gets Better" video
- Cubs are going to make one
- Red Sox are too
- Ben Cohen leaves rugby to start anti-bullying foundation
- Gareth Thomas comes out
- U of Maryland wrestler Hudson Taylor makes LGBT issues (and feminist ones too, apparently) a pet cause
- Tim Hardaway (of all people) chastises Joakim Noah for saying "fag" (weak, but it's pretty noteworthy considering Hardaway's previous statements re homophobia ("I'm homophobic. I hate gay people.")
- Chicago Cubs' enter a float in the Chicago Gay Pride parade (superstar Ernie Banks rides on it)
- Phoneix Suns President comes out
- Former Villanova basketball player Will Sheridan comes out
- ESPN announcer Jon Miller comes out
- Charles Barkley says some supportive words re gay players
- QB Warren Moon says there were gay players on his team

Straight allies are always great to have, but I particularly love the support from athletes. And of course athletes coming out is pretty sweet, too.

I wonder how long till a famous American pro comes out (before retirement). I can see someone being forced out of the closet, and maybe that could be a catalyst. Gareth Thomas, despite being a masculine dude in a crazy butch sport, isn't on enough Americans' radars to make that much of a difference. I think for a sports figure coming out to matter to Americans, it will have to be either an American football, basketball, or baseball player. Or David Beckham.

So, thoughts? Opinions?

anton hysen becoming the first out active pro footballer

(i do have thoughts and opinions that perhaps have to wait, appropriately enough, until Federer/Nadal is over)

I did due diligence in searching for a thread on the topic. If there is one I didn't find, let me know and I'll post there.

xp - Oh, maybe I should have distinguished between American and the-rest-of-the-world football.

there was a rugby star in Australia, Ian Roberts, who came out in the mid nineties, while he was still playing.

- ESPN announcer Jon Miller comes out

huh when did this happen??

Re Jon Miller http://phillysportsdaily.com/uncategorized/2011/05/17/miller-homosexuality-is-the-new-frontier-in-sports/

I was going to put links to stories about all the items in my list, but I wasn't up for it.

oh ok i thought u were talking about this guy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Clp2tCbi-9o/RohgmAW58hI/AAAAAAAAAU0/EEs8cXRYoX8/s320/jon+miller.bmp

Forgot about John Amaechi. But he's retired.

And Martina Navratilova, and Billie Jean King.

The story about Amaechi also mentions

Former NFL running back David Kopay came out in 1977; offensive lineman Roy Simmons and defensive lineman Esera Tuaolo came out more recently. Glenn Burke, an outfielder for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Oakland Athletics in the 1970s, and Billy Bean, a utility player in the 1980s and 1990s, have also come out. Former major-league umpire Dave Pallone has also said he is gay.

xp - Who dat?

jon miller, radio announcer for sf giants games and, until recently, espn sunday night baseball

Oohhh. Yeh, It's actually JoHn Miller. The H is for....nevermind.

lol

oh ok i thought u were talking about this guy:

Yeah me too! Was confused.

lol i googled "jon miller espn gay" and this thread was the third result

Companion thread:
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=53&threadid=50

i'm pretty interested in which sport's culture will allow for a player to come out -- most ppl think that it's hockey, right?

waht?

Why hockey, though? All the Canadians?

ha, i don't know -- i'm just trying to recall things that i've read, maybe i'm wrong

http://www.dailynews.co.zw/sport/36-sports/167-storm-over-bunch-of-gays-in-germanys-team.html

Osang went on to say that Becker put the new adroit, lighter and elegant style of play that has become a trademark of trainer Joachim Löw's players down to their homosexuality, in contrast to the typically more aggressive and offensive German style of past years, but suggested they played too delicately to assure themselves a place in the final.

I'm not sure how many people would have anticipated the overwhelming support hurler Donal Og Cusack received when he came out. A lot of the homophobia in hockey or American football might melt away when an established sportsman who has been winning games and cracking heads with the best of them does the same.

fwiw germany's football team have improved since their started playing in their new effete and unteutonic style

some more encouraging news lately

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/mario-gomez-of-bayern-munich-says-gay-soccer-players-should-come-out-111010

i'm pretty interested in which sport's culture will allow for a player to come out -- most ppl think that it's hockey, right?

J0rdan, that's the impression that I got, too. Re American/Canadian sports, anyway.

right

For no solid reason, I imagine American football to be the last place it would happen.

it's interesting to think about hockey what with all the canadians and euros; seems like a good candidate. otoh canadian youth hockey culture as i understand can be pretty fucked up so idk.

i wouldn't be surprised if it's a basketball player. would be v. surprised if it was a football or baseball player.

I would imagine American baseball would be last.

yup

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/8350779/Steven-Davies-England-cricketer-announces-he-is-gay.html

one thing that might tilt it in football's favor is that there's like 1,500+ nfl players at any given time, so just by sheer numbers...

also i think bcuz football is so physical

"wicketeer"

steven davies is cute!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu :-(

jeez

i think he's still the only one to have come out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

I do think it's important to note as far as the "L" of LGBT is concerned, there are lots of out lesbian professional athletes. I recognize that being an out lesbian in sports has less of an impact socially because women's pro sports, unfortunately, are pretty marginalized and everybody thinks women athletes are big dykes anyway as they are engaging in the masculine pursuit of active sporting so it's not like, earth shattering to find out that Muffin Spencer-Devlin is gay.

http://www.lpga.com/content/photos/pp_spencer-devlin_muffin_lg.jpg

But as lesbians were heretofore absent from this conversation, I thought it was reasonable to bring it up.

Or my girl Sheryl Swoopes. <3<3<3

http://dropkicks.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/_2007_12/t1_swoopes2.jpg

It's not earth-shattering as you say but it is disorienting to learn that Muffin Spencer-Devlin is a real name!

- Chicago Cubs' enter a float in the Chicago Gay Pride parade (superstar Ernie Banks rides on it)

this is awesome!

I would imagine American baseball would be last.

Yeah, that would be my impression too (see: recent -- as in two months ago -- conflagration over an Atlanta coach calling a bunch of fans fags and then threatening them with a bat while the team was in SF), but then this news of the Giants (and apparently, a couple other teams!) doing "It Gets Better" has me reconsidering.

As for the NFL, Paul Tagliabue, the league's previous commissioner, has a son who is gay, and Tags was purportedly very supportive of LGTB issues.

Also, Nancy Lieberman, who I think is the first female coach of a men's pro hoops team (and is all heternormative now), was in a relationship with Navratilova back in the day.

How is Nancy Lieberman is heteronormative?

Jenny - I was sort of reading all the support I listed above as being directed toward the G part of LGBT b/c it's been largely men of male sports teams who have been expressing support, but looking them over the list, that's not exactly what they seem to actually saying. Unfortunately, all that support probably doesn't have as much impact on the L and certainly not the T.

Anyway, you are right that I overlooked the lesbians.

Also, I would like to point out that my phrase "Cubs' enter a float" contains a typo.

Because I hate basketball, and women's bball is the most popular women's pro sport (right?), a woman bballer coming out might not make it on my radar.

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

a previous thread on this topic, btw: Rolling gays in sport changing things up thread

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

― Jesse, Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:44 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

eh baseball teams mostly consist of old-fashioned country boys (many of whom never went to college) and dudes from conservative, catholic, latin american countries.

Oh yeh, uninformed impression is that baseball would be among the first to accept gay players!

― Jesse, Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:44 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark

same here - and iirc there was some anonymous poll done a while back asking players from the mlb, nba and nfl if they'd accept a gay teammate, and mlb had the highest percentage of yesses (nfl lowest)

well i'd be happy to be wrong!

eh baseball teams mostly consist of old-fashioned country boys (many of whom never went to college)

I guess that the average elite football/basketball player's college experience probably doesn't involve many experiences/classes that would make them any more pro-gay rights

I'd*

i was surprised that it took until 2011 for it to happen in cricket. i guess as a sport it's kind of structurally/aesthetically old-fashioned and conservative (like baseball?), but it's probably the only professional sport in the UK where most players have a degree.

How is Nancy Lieberman is heteronormative?

My stupid way of saying she's married with kids.

baseball teams mostly consist of old-fashioned country boys

― call all destroyer

call all destroyer, yesterday
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/connie-mack-hof-1.jpg

mlb had the highest percentage of yesses

ha - I had 4 beers and walked 5 miles in the sun, so I thought that said "jesses" which really confused me and made me wonder if you were referring to homos as "Jesses" b/c of my name, and I as trying to decide if I was offended.

I took a shower and re-read it, this time correctly.

How did the Mike Piazza rumors start?

Belle and Sebastian song.

That was a joke.

Haha - And a fine one it was!

For real tho?

And how did the Jeff Gordon rumors start?

He drove a rainbow colored car.

i think the brian burke/his late son thing was pretty big for hockey and is sort of a microcosm of what's basically happening throughout north america. brian burke is kind of a bluff guy known for promoting a style of hockey based on hitting and fighting. but his son was family and he stood by him. not to equate brian burke with dick cheney, but family ties breed support in curious places.

i'm guessing that the qualities of an individual sport make a difference as well. i mean if some mma fighter comes out, no one is going to call him/her a pussy. an ethos of toughness probably applies more to sports like rugby or nfl football or hockey -- if you've proved that you're tough, you've eliminated the 'sissy' stereotype. i recall a quote from a special-forces dude re: gays in the military, saying that there was a gay soldier in his outfit that was a mean, kickass motherfucker, and that was good enough for everyone.

as for the ladies, one hears rumors of unpleasant accusations in the college basketball recruiting process -- like a coach telling a recruit that a rival school's team is all lesbians and such. yeah there's been martina and billie jean king, but team sports are somewhat different. i kinda feel like (straight) women are not as weird about homosexuality in general -- i feel like they're not as weird about a lot of things in general -- as men, but i dunno.

do you think the racial makeup of a sport's players has an affect on tolerance?

do you think the racial makeup of a sport's players has an affect on tolerance?

― mookieproof, Monday, June 6, 2011 12:20 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest

idk i doubt it -- i think the nature of the sport is what matters most, also the stature of the player

effect, fuc

Also should add hockey goon Sean Avery to above list, for his publicly supporting marriage equality and for doing (or planning on doing) an "It Gets Better" vid as well.

and interning at "vogue", which is about the gayest thing that anyone could do

as for the ladies, one hears rumors of unpleasant accusations in the college basketball recruiting process -- like a coach telling a recruit that a rival school's team is all lesbians and such.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/39892_483962434198_602254198_6812027_1437416_n.jpg

there's a good documentary about rene portland's reign of terror that everyone should see. it indirectly vilifies that wretched old vampire joe paterno too - he got the penn state brass to hire her in the first place and used his clout to protect her for years and years.

there was a big article in espn the magazine about anti-lesbian recruiting in women's cbb

sean avery isn't a goon, he is an 'agitator' -- and by some accounts kind of insane. but yeah his statements were pretty cool -- he said that if some junior hockey player wanted to come out to his team, he would stand beside him.

banging elisha cuthbert is good inoculation from dreaded gayness tho

i mean if some mma fighter comes out, no one is going to call him/her a pussy.

hah, yeah right. plenty of straight mma guys get called pussies already. i actually think that might be the sport most likely to engender violent reactions toward a guy who comes out - because of the nature of the sport, where it so easily codes as 'gay' to the uninitiated, guys involved in it get extra freaked out about any gayness invading their space

yeah avery's not a goon and nobody in hockey respects him in terms of toughness

really? weird xp

I obviously don't follow hockey, so I don't have the terminology down very well. So is seen more as a cheap-shot guy, e.g. Bruce Bowen?

yeah, check the comments on any MMA fan site or forum in response to joe rogan calling a female mma reporter a "cunt" to see how accepting that sport would be

i don't think avery is dismissed -- he has occasionally fought, and he goes in the corners and in the slot as well as anyone his size -- it's more that he has difficulty separating what it is possible to do and what is reasonable to do

i don't think avery is dismissed

google 'sean avery pussy'

yeah i heard about the joe rogan thing. i don't watch or follow mma at all, so i guess i'm talking out of my ass, so to speak, but i guess i find it weird that dudes engaged in it are being called sissies or that it encodes as gay

eh, you google 'sidney crosby pussy' or whomever you'll get much the same thing

watch a bob sapp or gabe ruediger fight and it'll start to make sense to you

re: the gayness - its not so much that it encodes to mma people as gay, but its a common cheapshot by its detractors - oh look at these guys hugging in their underwear - the overcompensatory reaction makes sense in that context, which is reflected in the cartoonish machoness of the 'culture' around it, which i think is worse than any with other sport

so is rampage overcompensating y/n

probably, yes

also jesus christ joe rogan it was tough for everyone when phil hartman died, but is this your life's work?

I apologize for my use of the word "fa*got." I enjoy that word immensely,

i didn't notice you using that word? but it is v. cute when you apologize for such things (no homo)

i was quoting joseph rogan...

Anyway, you are right that I overlooked the lesbians.

I wasn't criticizing so much as just including - standing up for my strident lesbian sisters, etc.

With transgender athletes, it seems like we can't even address questions of public or team acceptance until we address institutional discrimination, ie Lana Lawless. If the governing body of your sport is flipping its wig about you, what chance do you have to get acceptance from John/Jane Q. Sportstalkradiolistener?

The wonderful Joe Posnanski is writing a book on Joe Paterno - a pretty positive one as I understand it. Maybe someone with knowledge of Paterno's homophobia could ask Joe if he's going to touch on it?

"No Drinking, No Drugs, No Lesbians" sounds like the seventh circle of hell to me.

I didnt realize Paterno had a rep for homophobia. Cant imagine anything about that guy written at this point is going to be anything other than a hagiography.

though posnanski is a good writer

lex mentioned hysen already, and coincidentally a friend just posted this http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2011/06/06/when-will-soccer-stand-up-against-homophobia/

well, im not convinced that paterno's a homophobe, or that it's important if he is one - what's important is he turned a blind eye to practices which made penn state athletics a homophobic institution

pos is a smart guy and i would be totally shocked if there wasn't some mention of rene portland in his book

I love the fact Banks marched in the chicago gay pride parade. The guy is awesome. I grew up there, I've never heard anybody say anything negative about the guy.

that is v. cool

Dan, is your friend a fan of the Chicago F]r3?

What I find especially interesting are athletes and organizations that are supporting gay causes generally, not specifically inclusion of gay people as players. I'm talking about the It Gets Better videos by the SF Giants, the Red Sox, and The Cubs, and about Ben Cohen. I don't have a lot to say about the matter, but I will be interested to see if this is a trend and what the reactions are.

yeah i think there's something to that. kind of from a pr standpoint tho, how would an org support the inclusion of gay players? i feel like most approaches would imply that there are already closeted ppl on the team!

By the way:

#1 GIS result for "strident lesbians"

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HK3xZml4bzo/R1nIC6jwnfI/AAAAAAAAAF4/_vsA-SaAoMI/S300/DSC01356a.JPG

#1 result for "strident lesbian"

http://katysconservativecorner.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/05/ha_ha.jpg

xp - I was thinking about Brian Burke, and of Gareth Thomas' teammates' reaction to his coming out, amongst others.

LOL

Seattle Mariners are gonna do an It Gets Better vid.
http://www.towleroad.com/2011/06/seattle-mariners-to-make-it-gets-better-video.html

hunh

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/magazine/23martial-t.html

Indeed....

Not related to the gay aspect, I don't think I care for "Felony Fights."

michael irvin cover story for out magazine

http://www.out.com/slideshows/index.asp?slideshow_title=Michael-Irvin-The-Playmaker-Preaches&theID=1#Top

irvin's brother was gay

Accompanying pic makes it kind of hard to take rest of article seriously.

yeah why is he wearing dockers and gladiator's armor

It's hard fighting the homophobes without leather armor.

Former Columbus Crew/Leeds/USMNT player Robbie Rogers comes out & also seems to indicate he is retiring from the game: http://robbierogers8.moonfruit.com/

Seeing a ton of support from various MLS and USMNT players on Twitter in reaction.

Apparently trending worldwide on Twitter now.

hadn't heard of him but good for him

he's hot as well!

sad that he had to retire after coming out though...

Yeh, I wonder why he's retiring. If it's due to his coming out, that's too bad. His teammates have been showing him support, but I guess there would still be difficulties to face down the road. Anyway, good for him for helping set a precedent.

He's currently out of contract, as far as I know. Farther down his Twitter feed it says he's taken a job with Men's Health magazine.

I remember seeing thenews for Billy Bean, the baseball player who came out in 1999, and writing in my notebook, we discussed this in class.
Then they made Monyeball and I thought it was about him and I was very excited/confused.

lol @ moonfruit.com

lex...goodwill...footballer...it's happening!

the extent to which steven davies' coming out has been accepted by the cricket community has been phenomenal - in that it isn't really talked about any more or made an issue out of - the only time his personal life has been mentioned recently has been his admitting being depressed after a teammate tragically died last year - there's been no tittle-tattle or subtextual homophobia. exemplary. although it distresses me that through various issues of poor batting form and the aforesaid depression he hasn't become the first out gay man to represent england in a major team sport (he represented them before the coming-out; his teammates knew but didn't gossip about it, which is encouraging). hopefully he'll score loads of runs next season and get another call-up - he's an incredible player to watch on his day :)

Excellent interview with a friend & former teammate of Rogers: http://www.dispatch.com/content/blogs/covering-the-crew/2013/02/iro-rogers-didnt-want-to-continue-a-lie.html

More: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/51994/what-robbie-rogerss-coming-out-means-for-mls

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/

Ah, I knew a thread like this existed but couldn't find it!

Former Columbus Crew/Leeds/USMNT player Robbie Rogers comes out & also seems to indicate he is retiring from the game

Don't follow the NBA much, but I've heard speculation that Collins may retire soon, too, given that he's a 34-year-old free agent. Any truth to that, I wonder?

He may retire, but it may be more due to teams not picking him up in free agency (he's kinda old and not very good). His twin bro has been out of the league for a couple years.

Ha @ him telling shaq that his flopping has nothing to do with him being gay.

That is one fantastic letter

totally proud of the reaction i've seen on twitter from fellow players, btw. basketball rules

Some of those reactions here:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-04-29/jason-collins-gay-nba-player-reaction-twitter-kobe-bryant-baron-davis

ok so is dennis rodman gay or not?

Fucking Hell Yeah.

i mean to collins. no idea about the worm.

Apparently Collins was friends with Chelsea Clinton at Stanford?

One of my favorite parts of this story is thinking about the two and a half tons of bricks my brother-in-law is shitting right now. When Obama was re-elected and he got pwned (imo) a few times in Facebook political/religious/social debates, he withdrew from all discussion of any of those issues where he might be confronted by people he didn't agree with, and devoted his social-media life to pro and college sports. There's no way he was an isolated case; a few million homophobes just lost one more place where they could hide their gaze from the fact that Teh Gays Are Destroying the Moral Fabric of America, except for the fact that somehow it's not being destroyed at all.

Metta World Peace's take on it

twitter reax link straight up had me in tears.

now if they could only make the games interesting before the last 3 minutes.

WilliamC -- I know I've marvelled a bit at that guy on here and elsewhere a few times but if he does say anything about it I admit I would be tickled to see what it is.

ILH's offseason project needs to be to win over morbs as a fan

twitter reax link straight up had me in tears.

― Clay, Monday, April 29, 2013 6:21 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

me too, much love

taken with his love of DJ Quik.

even more coming pouring in:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/9223792/reaction-jason-collins-announcement

Kobe
Doc Rivers
Garrett Temple
Beal
Okafor
Vesely
Wade
Manu
Kidd
Gay
Horford
Lowry
Sullinger
Baron
Nash
Pau
Damien Wilkins
Earl Watson
Batum
Rasual Butler
Scola
Fropez
McGrady
Amaechi
Magic
Isiah
Bowen
Mad Dog Madsen
Joe Smith
Spike Lee
Strahan
Evander
BArry Sanders

xpost -- for damn sure

Kevin Love
Royce White
Ariza
Martell Webster
T Parker
Zaza
Van Exel

President Obama called NBA player Jason Collins to express his support and said he was impressed by his courage - @nbcnightlynews

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/martina-navratilova-jason-collins-reaction/

I'll be extra happy if this means we're closer to eliminating the KissCam from arena/stadium video screens.

(In Anaheim a couple years ago, the director's punchline was to end w/ a shot of two guys wearing the visiting team's caps. Hilaaaarious.)

i think some hockey arenas still do that w/ visiting team benches

note i do not watch or partake in the hockey but i think i saw that on twitter the other day

WilliamC -- I know I've marvelled a bit at that guy on here and elsewhere a few times but if he does say anything about it I admit I would be tickled to see what it is.

― Ned Raggett, Monday, April 29, 2013 5:25 PM (43 minutes ago)

Just about the only time he's broken radio silence (on anything other than innocuous family stuff) since Obama's reelection was last week, to call for background checks and waiting periods for high-capacity pressure cookers. Real original stuff.

seeing collins be the leading story on nba.com during playoff season is awesome

ILH's offseason project needs to be to win over morbs as a fan

If it's in your power to bring back booty shorts...

ugh, scrolled down to the comments from the Sporting News twitter reaction link

seeing collins be the leading story on nba.com during playoff season is awesome

OTM.

Seeing so many people be so supportive actually gives me some hope for humanity.

well, try not to read the comments on these articles if you'd prefer to continue feeling that way.

I know the assholes and bigots are out there, but seeing pro athletes be publicly supportive seems like at least a small breakthrough.

Steven Vega · Top Commenter · Marist College
I think this is great that Jason is coming out, because it will educate people that sports should'nt segregate anyone, to compete at the highest level in sports you should be judged on how good you are as to being a team player, respecting your coach, and believing in your ablities to play.
Reply · 5 · Like · Follow Post · 7 hours ago

Philip Dewar · Top Commenter · Greenville Technical College
If you think it's so great, why don't you get naked with him ?

Philip is some kind of one-man explanation of the GOP's current demo

Philip Dewar answered 2 questions.
July 28 - July 30
Will you continue to eat at Chick-fil-A's after the President of the company came out against Marriage Equality?
Yes
Do you think welfare recipients should be drug tested?
Yes

Philip Dewar · Top Commenter · Greenville Technical College
If you think it's so great, why don't you get naked with him ?

otm

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2013/05/jason-collins-charles-pierce-civil-rights-black-homophobia

btw robbie rodgers is training with LA http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/04/30/robbie-rogers-special-guest-la-galaxy-training-tuesday

tom daley has a boyfriend! good for him. not a surprise exactly but he is the youngest pro sportsman to come out that i can think of, have any others done so as a teenager? heartening.

Is he 19? As an Olympics ignorer, all I know about him is that he disrobes for the camera at every -- well, I'm not sure he ever "robes."

19, not sure i've ever seen him with clothes on

also, he came out as bisexual rather than gay

"I am in/have been in a relationship with a man" is the new [________].

How on earth is it front page news though, do people who don't actually know him care?

"I am in/have been in a relationship with a man" is the new [________].

I thought it was interesting how Daley's announcement echoed Maria Bello's in this way.

I like it. I have more in common with people who are never in a relationship with either.

I like the acknowledgment of fluidity, for sure.

Indeed.

@sirrontail
Tom Daley: "I'm currently eating toast".
Everyone: "Tom Daley only eats toast".

God what a dumb post my me a couple years ago in light of what was about to happen:

I didnt realize Paterno had a rep for homophobia. Cant imagine anything about that guy written at this point is going to be anything other than a hagiography.

― Thraft of Cleveland (Bill Magill), Monday, June 6, 2011 5:44 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's a way of saying "I acknowledge fluidity and don't have totally crap taste in music" xxp

Just so we know where Tim Hardaway is at today: http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23723517/poole-tim-hardaways-ultimate-crossover

Good for him.

phwoar at Tom Daley

it will be interesting to see if this actually gets the notion of bisexuality more visibility- it's sort of weird the way that there's a tacit assumption that dating a man means you only date men, as per the toast metaphor above. I guess it's often been noticed but it seems like female bisexuality is way less threatening than male bisexuality to current regimes / thinking. maybe this could change that around? a bit?

Anything that kills off the "stepping stone en route to gaydom" cliche is to everyone's benefit.

sorry, meant that to be "gaytown"

yeah, a Brit friend who breathlessly follows celeb unclosetings labeled this "brave,' and my first thought was "about 1% as much as Martina Navratilova 20+ years ago." Except I'm discounting his gender too much? I dunno.

That and his age. And that everyone's own individual coming out process is still one of the most monumental events of their own lives, be they a homo Hester Prynne or a rainbow-swaddled gayby.

and apparently monumentally dating 39-year-old one-hit-wonder screenwriter Dustin Lance Black.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/08/thomas-hitzlsperger-gay-announces-homosexual

something niggles at me in these articles when they quote the guy's sporting honours as if to prove he really was a "proper" footballer

was just coming here to post that; obviously i've never heard of dude - football fans, what was his rep when he was active? sporting-wise, character-wise etc. is this a surprise to you? could he have come out while still playing?

Sporting-wise, he was a very solid, reliable midfielder who could smash the ball immensely hard. I'm not sure that he was considered all that interesting and the press, in the UK at least, tended to just leave him alone. There's no reason to think of it as a surprise.

I saw him play! EFC 2-0 AVFC, Feb 2004. I feel quite honoured now.

I didn't know much about him, even when he joined the Everton squad, other than he had a rep for scoring ferocious long-range goals. Sadly not demonstrated with EFC.

xp

xp
I'm probably guilty of the kind of thinking NV mentions. Rogers comes out = don't care he's no good anyway. Thomas H comes out = nice a proper footballer.

well i do think their 'fame' feeds into it, if we're talking about the level at which people are going to take interest in this or not?

clumsy thought kinda thing- robbie rogers - gay footballer, hitzlsperger- footbaler, gay

well, it's not a judgment on their own personal coming out journey or its personal importance, but i think it's obvious that an elite-level sportsman at the start or peak of his career - someone who would be a household name anyway - coming out would be the kind of wider cultural bombshell that a journeyman or retired player isn't

yeah i'm not denying the reality of those kind of thoughts, i think pro journalists shd think for a minute before feeding into them

my thoughts about Hitzlsperger are similar to the others - was aware of him as a decent top flight pro, never noticed him in particular

there's a bit of "quoting sporting honours to demonstrate he's newsworthy in the first place rather than some lower-league nobody whose name would barely get mentioned in the press if not for this" to it

xxxp Surely it just depends how you first heard of the person? I'd never heard of Robbie Rogers until all the press he got when he came out.

One thing that is often said is that coming out while still playing at a high level would not be a problem with fellow pros, but that the negative reaction from (rival?) fans would be the deterrent.

i'm resisting the temptation to do a string of "lower league nobody comes out" in-jokes here which wd amuse the football crowd but not be v. relevant here

One thing that is often said is that coming out while still playing at a high level would not be a problem with fellow pros, but that the negative reaction from (rival?) fans would be the deterrent.

a couple of years ago i took part in a radio documentary about homosexuality in hip-hop and people had much the same conclusions - few artists, esp working in the music industry, are genuinely homophobic, but the fans...

there have been a number of "high profile" (NB: not necessarily outstandingly talented or at the top of their profession) footballers who've made some disgusting homophobic comments in the media in the past - hi John Fashanu! - so i don't think the line that the fans are the only problem is v. convincing. i can happily believe that on the whole footballers are as tolerant as any other random selection of men of their age and class but the inside culture of football is still pretty brutish, esp. in this country, in many many ways

Is the culture of GAA substantially different would you say, Darragh?

well i posted (thought it was to this thread tbh) in the past month about donal og o'cusack to that effect

the culture of gaa is totally different tho, yeah.

Was it donal og came out in the gaa and everyone basically said 'i hear your one of them quares now donal og' 'i am surely' 'well fair play have ye the seond cut got this year yet at all at all?' and that was about it

― Our Deems, of the supposed "rapier" "wit" (darraghmac), Friday, December 20, 2013 11:17 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think if you are a kinda anonymous player ie one who is unlikely to be singled out for vitriol at away grounds around the country (unless you do something specific in the particular game you are playing that day) then coming out would indeed likely lead to being singled out for the attention of morons in the crowd from then on. Can see how this would dissuade someone from openly discussing their sexuality.

If you were a superstar or notorious player already well used to be targeted by opposition fans then the level of hostility created by coming out may well be water off a ducks back. Though the fact that the abuse will now be homophobic in nature may make it loads worse for the player to have to put up with, I dunno. For instance if say Joey Barton suddenly announced that he was gay (he isn't afaik) I wonder if his 90 mins playing every other Saturday away from Loftus Rd would feel that differently to him? Or would the nature of the abuse make it feel different? Worse?

Not sure about whether teammates would care or not. Think they're more likely to have the hump about having to answer questions about whether they 'support' the guy who's come out etc than anything else.

Tryina shoe in a Der Hammer gag here but it ain't rly coming

Joey Barton would probably announce he was gay inna Lil B move

They would be upset if they weren't allowed any 'banter' about the subject.
xp

we're talking about a workplace where it's still far from clear how much dodgy language black players are expected to or compelled to laugh off/tolerate so i dunno we're ready for a drum circle acceptance of anybody's sexuality just yet

i mean afair donal og came out at the height of his career, which was p top level

gaa still hugely community/locality based, so your own fans aren't going to make a thing of it any more than they would if a fella down the road came out (the disconnect btwn the players on the pitch and 'a normal person' is a big thing here in terms of 'it's ok to shout obscenities/abuse at this performer')

so there's a thing of locality (and idk but again afaict if you have a player you're stuck with him for his career, def at county level), there's an aspect of 'these guys put in professional level commitment but for all intents and purposes are ordinary' which makes it a lot less 'panto villain' target for abuse, GAA fans are made up of families to a far greater extent that live attendees of soccer matches, and the crowds (ime) sit where they want so there's no pack mentality whatsoever.

plus, yknow, we're eh how to put this, we're not english

tbh the only type of person i might know personally would almost certainly abuse a gay footballer (GAA or sassenach) would be the fellas who played football (GAA or sassenach)

Sporting-wise, he was a very solid, reliable midfielder who could smash the ball immensely hard.

Always kinda liked him. He has retired now (at only 31) so I assume that made it a lot easier for him to come out.

plus, yknow, we're eh how to put this, we're not english

yeah i have to say one of my thoughts about Hitzlsperger's coming out was "this seems like much less of a big deal to many non-English people/nations"

i may be flattering ourselves here but not in terms of 'he's gay oh gawd' but in terms of 'he's gay let's use that to abuse him when we're all drunk in a mob'

struck by an image of yere lads taking on our lads at the boyne, getting boozed up for the battle and ye ganging together and coming at us all green street and our boys fighting over what diarmuid said to sean bridin-maire at the last clan meet

anyway in re hitzlsperger, he was noteworthy for those goals so id say above-average profile certainly

and the other reason i rarely see discussed is: £££££££££

eg tennis has about as gay-friendly a fanbase as any major pro sport can have atm. it's an individual sport so you don't have to worry about teammates. fans generally don't heckle let alone shout abuse. yet no active male tennis pro has ever come out, and a lot of that is due to fear of losing potential endorsements.

King Billy's sexuality has been called into question in the past, interestingly enough (xxxp)

(and I don't just mean on at Celtic Park on a Saturday afternoon)

ha

xxxxxxp Which nations in particular?

xxxp as there are such a huge number of (largely relatively anonymous) professional footballers I would have thought that coming out would only enhance the potential for making £££ for anyone beyond those who already have a huge profile/play for Barca/get FIFA covers etc

idk lex, would there not be positive endorsement opportunities to set that off against perhaps? first thought a gay mate of mine had this morning about endorsements etc was the amount of companies that would piggyback on the 'forward-looking' vibe of sponsorship of a gay footballer

yeah, i would imagine that could be the case, but it's all hypothetical though. and never underestimate just how conservative many companies are - women's tennis, which is pretty much the biggest pro women's sport in the world (apart from maybe golf?) still operates on very basic PRETTIER = MORE MARKETABLE = PRETTIER priorities

The world operates on those priorities, not just women's tennis

Hitzlsperger made 50+ appearances for the German national team and went to at least one World Cup with them, he was a reasonably successful pro and above-average generally but never a household name. He was nicknamed DER HAMMER which is the thing most people remember about him up until now. He wasn't really the sort of player to inspire the hatred of opposing fans, outside parts of Birmingham maybe.

Interesting profile of a trans MMA fighter: http://www.gq.com/entertainment/sports/201401/fallon-fox-transgender-mma-fighter?currentPage=1

College football. That's new territory.

http://www.outsports.com/2014/1/28/5348936/conner-mertens-willamette-football-kicker

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/sports/michael-sam-college-football-star-says-he-is-gay-ahead-of-nfl-draft.html
FINALLY
this guy should be drafted this year, curious to see this develop

hey cool

The ugliness that is the NFL

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/02/09/sam-bigotry

'the eagle has landed'

martin rickman ‏@martinrickman 4h

would be great if anonymous nfl gm traveled through time like bill & ted offering thoughts on how big a distraction historical events are

martin rickman ‏@martinrickman 15h

football itself is a distraction so maybe distractions within a distraction result in order and calm

this guy's dad isn't coming out of this that well, huh

At one's most charitable, one could say the guy's life hasn't given him much reason to be happy about anything. Until now, anyway.

even tho we know Rush Lumbago's agenda saying "I thought last week libs said football was deadly and we should ban it!?", there's a point there if someone else was making it.

http://cdn.lgbtqnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Michael-Sam-Mizzou-game-1.jpg

Fans give Michael Sam standing ovation at Missouri basketball game

Jason Collins signs with the Brooklyn Nets, entered tonight's game as NBA's first out-of-the-closet player

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/66080/jason-collins-is-ready-to-play

Derrick Gordon from UMASS bball team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky7Z35yTFEM

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2014/05/10/saint-louis-rams-michael-sam-nfl-draft-2014/8919045/

Major-league umpire Dale Scott is now the first out active male official in the NBA, NHL, NFL or MLB.

http://www.outsports.com/2014/12/2/7295993/major-league-baseball-umpire-dale-scott-gay-coming-out

so Bruce Jenner transitioning to a woman is innnnteresting. I mean, he was on Wheaties boxes in 1976, and this would not have been comprehended by hardly anyone at that time (or even after Renee Richards).

Not sure this is the most apposite thread tbh

yeah, couldnt find another, so implicitly expanded to LGBT

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/1/8316867/dalton-maldonado-gay-basketball-kentucky