could you be in a long-term relationship with a republican

Sure, makes for awesome make-up sex since you're always squabbling about something or other.

have dated conservatives, would do again provided we could have discussions & disagreements that rose above crossfire-level "you're wrong and i'm gonna go smoke a cigarette" stupidness.

first option should be changed to "gop fuck no" FYI

nailinpalin.gif

you're wrong and i'm gonna go smoke a cigarette after our vicious hatesex

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DvlWo60SGRg/TUCHmUK320I/AAAAAAAADXk/LjIvovlwNIA/s1600/gerry-adams-2.jpg

this one maybe

though anybody that was like "i am a republican for life," no--true if they said democrat or green or w/e too. party ID is gross imo.

yeah I didn't really mean party mostly just meant conservative

libertarians count btw

right

lessons learned btw:

-if you have a disagreement, don't sweep it under the rug. have it the fuck out or it will drive you crazy.
-don't TELL EVERYONE.

I dated a self-ID'ed Republican once; the problem was more that he wasn't very bright. Sort of an endemic problem, I should think.

Dated a politically incoherent Republican (I never actually figured out where she agreed with the party on anything, but she was mostly apolitical beyond being pro-choice and pro-gay rights), it was fine, went south for other reasons. Don't think I could date a rabid conservative.

Yeah, I can respect certain Republicans intellectually but it seems many pick their (usually shallow) ideology 'cause it's a useful way for them to justify remaining a dick.

Yes, of course. It's just electoral politics. But I never have & hopefully never will since I'm off the market. In any case I'm not sure what to vote for here.

I had sex with a really hot guy from Calgary and when he told me afterwards that he liked our homophobic prime-minister and that he voted for him because he was from the West and that never happens, I was really turned off.
I did had sex with him again the following night though, but I could never date him. I don't get gay conservatives at all.

I don't think I could.

i dont think i could ever date someone who agreed with the republican party platform

maybe i could date a "conservative" but daniel larison wont return my calls

dated one before and would again if the situation was right (/ they were super hot)

also she was only republican because she was a young college student who was raised by a conservative family - I'm pretty sure she's basically liberal now

gf prob identifies as tory mindset, but isn't really interested in national politics

I dated a Bush Sr voter for two years in college. Kinda weird to think how this divide really didn't heat up crazy until after 2000.

― Pleasant Plains, Saturday, July 2, 2011 8:59 PM Bookmark

Conservative voting record has always been a massive deal-breaker for me. I recently binned off a Canadian who has UK citizenship and used it to vote for the Tories in the last election. He couldn't justify it and kind of waffled a bit too incoherently on the topic for an ex-Economist staffer. Strangely, I stopped returning his texts shortly thereafter.

lol fuck no

^^

Put me down for yes, but havent yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvgXnzwwZsM

Three years later, the 2008 election appears to have cost me a friendship, and it's not even my country. Otherwise, I've never had to face this problem. I find Michelle Malkin attractive, but that's my cross to bear. Truth is, it's an easy "yes" for me, as long as she wasn't strident about it.

don't want to seem doctrinaire here but i can't imagine how this would be possible.

maybe if it was 1950

thank you

I don't get bipartisan couples.

i caught up with an old friend on the phone recently and discovered that she'd gone republican in the two years since i'd had a conversation with her. she spent about half an hour complaining about 'obamacare' and insisting that once i started making more money, i'd be a republican too.

social, never; fiscal maybe.

pretty much if you're an actual republican in 2011 you're either an idiot, an asshole, a troll or a combination of all three -- regardless i have no interest in dating you

Was gonna be all "been there done that never again" until I remembered alex James is a Tory so basically, um, if they're hott enough maybe?

I dunno. There are Tories who were just kind of raised that way & don't know any different coz it's just their class and background; it's when they really actually believe in it and try to force their views on you that it becomes impossible.

Being leftie is by no means indicative of being a decent bloke mice known too many fauxgressive types who turned out to be massively sexist cocks and that's far more difficult for me to put up with than someone who makes vague joists about free markets over the dinner table.

I'm married to a woman who hasn't ever voted for a Democrat.

actually polyphonic might be otm

are gay republicans generally more socially liberal than normal republicans, or is that a fallacy?

http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/585174

There are Tories who were just kind of raised that way & don't know any different coz it's just their class and background; it's when they really actually believe in it and try to force their views on you that it becomes impossible.

otm

phallusy

my in-laws make it work, but they don't really wrap a lot of their personal identities in their political leanings. plus my f-i-l (conservative) i suspect knows my m-i-l (lib) is right more often than not and might be posturing to some degree for his biker friends.

social, never; fiscal maybe

That's a much better description of where I stand--I'd even extend it to "fiscal, not a big deal." (I'd of course try to talk sense to her.) But social's hard to imagine.

spent a year (on and off) with a woman who seemed to have no clear politics but lots of oddly conservative ideas. believed that gay men were emotionally underdeveloped and afraid of women, that adherence to "traditional" gender roles was charming and grown-up, that wealth and social status reflected character and compassion was roughly equivalent to weakness.

loved her very much, but it didn't work out...

There are Tories who were just kind of raised that way & don't know any different coz it's just their class and background

That's totally worse imo!

not my wife, but one of my very best friends from HS and still very close to this day is super republican. but it works i guess. we mostly talk about football and other stuff.

also fiscal is worse than social to me

my college roommate (RIP) and i were terrific friends and we were like a bad sitcom version of what a conservative and liberal would look like. well, i'm not like a black lesbian, but you get the point

ugh gay republicans

lol fuck no

Why, wk?

i've talked to more than one gay dude over the years who has had near-fascistic opinions on economics, immigration and/or race, but this is true of plenty of 'liberals' too really

gay republicans hate themselves

and they're really racist

yeah, figured the race thing was super icky

someone who's socially conservative just seems kind of backwards to me. maybe kind of ignorant, naive, possibly very religious. also they're basically on the wrong side of history and they can't win. not that I would want to be friends with them or anything still.

someone who's fiscally right wing (not a "conservative" p.o.v. imo) is flat out evil in my book and are actively helping to ruin civilization.

I had friends who were Republican in high school but over time they've all veered to the left; that whole 'earning MONEY will change your opinion' schtick is bullshit idiots present to be 'aspirational' IMO because you're either raised to 'give something back' or you're not - all the Alex P. Keatons I knew had a service ethic of some kind and don't get these churlish idiots who want to kill off gubmint; I think they started turning towards the Dems when Clinton entered office.

This weekend I'm going to the wedding of my old college roomie. He is, in ILX parlance, totally far-right batshit. Believes America is in irreversible political decline, that no candidate of any party can or will ever do anything about it, and that the ideal government is something like a network of small scale theocracies.

He's also one of my best friends, and I don't see that ever changing.

Haha I'd forgotten--in high school we also wrote the opposing left/right columns for the school newspaper.

Kinda otm until the theocracy part.

Haha I'd forgotten--in high school we also wrote the opposing left/right columns for the school newspaper.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:44 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark

lol the guy i did that with in high school is now out

(xpost) That's the thing, though--I don't think you're gonna change a social conservative, but I can see you having influence on a fiscal conservative. (Plus, of course, they'll force you to save money and you'll never be broke.)

Kinda otm until the theocracy part.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:44 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark

part of why we still get along so well

I'm the only liberal in my family, which is conservative in ways that would get them tossed by the GOP (pro-choice mom who thinks the right to an abortion is the ultimate example of leave-me-the-fuck-alone conservatism). I've never met any gay conservatives though.

someone who's fiscally right wing (not a "conservative" p.o.v. imo) is flat out evil in my book and are actively helping to ruin civilization.

I guess I sort of empathize with people who might not want to pay taxes because they're having trouble paying the bills, or thinks that our government is wasteful. I personally would LOVE to cut funding (to the military, haha), and think that our entitlement programs are getting pretty cumbersome, and on some level I think that the tax code should be simplified. There are plenty of core republican planks that don't seem completely unreasonable to me. Whereas if you're homophobic, racist, xenophobic, or think Christianity should be a bigger part of our government than it already is, we won't ever find common ground on those issues.

That's about right.

on some level I think that the tax code should be simplified.

agree with this wholeheartedly, but i don't think that's an intrinsically conservative position. my idea of simplification would increase progressiveness in all taxation and close most private/corporate loopholes.

LOL, the HS friend who worked in Fred Grandy's office in the '90s is now an out and proud LGBT/DFL activist.

Also, religiosity of any kind is a massive turn-off to ALL of my friends from school, along with anti-choice. My sister's friends (except for our friend in WI who is a union organizer) are low-info republican voters who aren't religious either, but LOL at climate change info and moan about the price of gas, taxes and anyone better off than them, especially all those Mexicans and welfare princesses. And no-one is the boss of them, apparently.

(xpost) That's the thing, though--I don't think you're gonna change a social conservative, but I can see you having influence on a fiscal conservative. (Plus, of course, they'll force you to save money and you'll never be broke.)

I kind of disagree. I think a lot of people are homophobic for example simply due to lack of exposure and experience. Ignorance can be changed, because it's based on not really thinking very deeply about something. But someone who has any opinion on economics has probably thought about it a bit and might be more entrenched in their thinking.

I guess I sort of empathize with people who might not want to pay taxes because they're having trouble paying the bills, or thinks that our government is wasteful.

well, I'm not talking about any kind of vague general "conservatism" and I'm certainly not giving republicans credit for having anything to do with anything that could reasonably be considered conservative in some kind of literal sense. I'm talking more about radical free market ideology, anti-unionism, the move to privatize everything, a basic ideological opposition to any kind of social spending, etc.

it'd be easier - MUCH easier - to date a fiscal than a social conservative. i say this because it's easy to be abstract and intellectually distanced about your fiscal politics. "i believe this because of this theory and that, blah blah historical tendencies, economic engines, plus blah blah blah," and so on. these things can be a depersonalized game of ideas and ideals.

social politics are more personal, and social conservatives seem far more motivated by malice, ignorance and outright bigotry. okay, so you want to restrict women's rights, build a wall around the country and immediately deport all illegal immigrants, execute petty criminals to save money and "send a message," merge the church and government, criminalize sexual acts that repel (or entice) you, and protect true god-given american values against the muslim hordes?

oh, and though you aren't a racist (heaven forbid!), you're deeply suspicious of all those welfare moms, crackheads and gang bangers who are bleeding america dry? then fuck you.

no, seriously. fuck you.

I'm married to a woman who hasn't ever voted for a Democrat.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:30 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nice try bucko

i think wk is more or less otm. or at least i think people underestimate the extent to which "fiscal" politics such as were talking about here are shapers of/shaped by nasty worldviews

radical free market ideology, anti-unionism, the move to privatize everything

This stuff is all deal breakery, definitely.

I have some sympathy for people who have been adversely affected by union labor and simply can't see the forest for the trees on the issue, though.

While we're on the subject, who are these unionized auto assembly workers on $100K a year? My mom is talking about them lately.

that stuff is definitely terrible but not being vaguely racist/homophobic/sexist etc is like the absolute baseline for being even an acceptable human being

It's easy enough for me to never, ever talk politics with someone, but if we're walking down the street and she's like "UGH, MEXICANS" or whatever... hard to overlook that shit.

okay, so you want to restrict women's rights, build a wall around the country and immediately deport all illegal immigrants, execute petty criminals to save money and "send a message," merge the church and government, criminalize sexual acts that repel (or entice) you, and protect true god-given american values against the muslim hordes?

It's kind of weird to me to give a pass to someone who selfishly wants to cut taxes and dismantle social programs because they don't understand how it benefits them, but not show that same empathy for some unemployed racist who thinks illegal aliens took his job. The thing is, the anti-immigration nut is tilting at windmills. 50 years from now, demographics will have shifted and the teabaggers won't have been able to do anything about it. But I think there's a pretty strong chance that these people will succeed in dismantling things like Social Security and Medicare and the effects from that will be felt long after anyone in the southwest remembers that people used to be worried about Mexicans.

some unemployed racist who thinks illegal aliens took his job.

But like ... you could date this person?

It's easy enough for me to never, ever talk politics with someone, but if we're walking down the street and she's like "UGH, MEXICANS" or whatever... hard to overlook that shit.

well yeah, I don't know why I'm playing devil's advocate here. it all would have been a total dealbreaker for me (and now it's a non-issue, since I'm married).

i would have an extremely difficult time taking anyone seriously who would identify as a Republican in 2011. so "date"? nah.

hey baby, totes symp 4 u and ur mexihatred, naw baby, its on my mom's side, i don't even put latino on my census form, aw yeah baby i understand why u'd wanna kill them too, can we talk bout something else

What kinda Republican, tho? Link Chafee/Arlen Spector type? Or the Christianist/RW-Authoritarian/social dominator-type? There's a wide gulf bet/w the Texas GOP and California/New England GOP(allegedly) Somebody who voted for, say, Bob Dole in '96, or somebody who voted for Dubya in '04 or McCain? Folks who defined themselves as Republicans changed greatly in just the last 10 years(and since Reagan, or so)

My brother is married to a Republican staffer/volunteer. She's cool most of the time, but I don't talk to her about politics. Ever.

yeah, i mean being a republican comes with some serious baggage these days -- it'd be kinda hard for me to be friends with someone who was totally cool with waterboarding ppl and invading iraq and SB 1070 and every other horrible thing republicans have given us in the last 10 years, let alone date them.

well, my idealized fiscal conservative isn't a wing-nut libertarian who wants to dismantle all social programs. frankly, i see such attitudes as bigoted social conservatism applied to economic issues (don't want THEM taking MINE).

when i speak of fiscal conservatives, i guess i'm talking about people who think that it's important to give powerful economic entities a fair amount of leeway (tax & regulatory breaks, etc) simply because they're the "engine of american opportunity" or w/e. people who take the needs of wealth and industry seriously, perhaps too seriously. not assholes who have weird psycho grudges against government and their fellow man.

^ i'm stacking the deck, in other words...

So, like Obama?

yeah, I could date him

I mean I'm pretty much a socialist and yet I would say that people who think that it's important to give powerful economic entities a fair amount of leeway (tax & regulatory breaks, etc) simply because they're the "engine of american opportunity" or w/e. people who take the needs of wealth and industry seriously could definitely apply to me.

i guess i feel like its slightly more likely to not hate poor people and still want small/limited government than its to not hate gay people and still not want them to be able to get married

but it is true that 'fiscal conservativism' is probably a bigger threat in terms of policy

So, like Obama?

yeah, lol. funny that wing-nut america's "communist" boogeyman turned out to be a textbook moderate fiscal conservative.

Also this equation of social-conservatism strictly with racism and homophobia is a little weird. I wouldn't really have much of a problem with people who were casually pro-life, anti gun control, pro capital punishment, pro drug criminalization, etc.

being even casually pro-life is a total dealbreaker

whatever casually pro-life is never met someone like that tbh

maybe someone who is catholic and is personally pro-life but is otherwise liberal and isn't out picketing clinics or something.

if i were dating a pro-life dude and had a pregnancy scare, i mean...

also think the philosophical underpinnings of being pro-life are that women don't get to be people really so that's a turn-off

if you're dating a pro-life dude you're probably not gonna be boning tbf

fiscal conservatives are literal human trash hth

i don't know, i feel like pro-life dudes have the luxury of a v abstract position on this stuff

Conversations like this drive home, though, the truth I've heard from a lot of young conservatives that choose to keep quiet about their politics--if they're remotely urban & not "God & country music" types, they've made peace with the idea that their dating pool is gonna largely consist of people that think they're crazy assholes.

being pro-life AND pro-death penalty to me is pretty much the most offensive and vile position ever, regardless of how 'casual' the belief is.

i'm more flexible on gun control but maybe that's because i live in arizona and just got fucking sick of arguing about it.

i don't know, i feel like pro-life dudes have the luxury of a v abstract position on this stuff

what about a guy dating a pro-life woman?

what about a guy dating a pro-life woman?

If her personal choice is that she would always keep the baby, great. If she would have the government force others to do the same, no.

being pro-life AND pro-death penalty to me is pretty much the most offensive and vile position ever, regardless of how 'casual' the belief is.

I don't think abortion will ever be made illegal in the US, and I don't think we're anywhere near getting rid of the death penalty, so these things just feel like total abstractions to me compared to economics.

total abstractions that tell you something about someone's beliefs!

i agree with you about fiscal conservatives fwiw

party ID is gross imo

also pro-life crazies are influencing the restriction of women's access to abortion even as we type

^

total abstractions that tell you something about someone's beliefs!

Sure, but if what they tell me is "this person was raised a catholic" or something like that, it's less off-putting than "this person thinks poor people are lazy"

what if they're a lazy poor catholic?

remember the thread where everybody said they couldn't marry somebody who shared their taste in music? this is like that, but real

who didn't share their taste in music

that stuff is definitely terrible but not being vaguely racist/homophobic/sexist etc is like the absolute baseline for being even an acceptable human being

― J0rdan S., Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:15 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but i think a lot of what underpins "fiscal conservatism" is just straight up racism

which leads me to believe that its kind of a fools errand to distinguish the two

frankly anyone who says something like "oh im socially liberally but fiscally conservative" is not someone i would ever date because really who talks like that out loud youre not on a message board were on a date

Sure, but if what they tell me is "this person was raised a catholic" or something like that, it's less off-putting than "this person thinks poor people are lazy"

― lizard tails, a self-regenerating food source for survival (wk), Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:51 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't know what to tell you dude, it hits a lot more viscerally than that for me

remember the thread where everybody said they couldn't marry somebody who shared their taste in music? this is like that, but real

― Капитан ☭ (remy bean), Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

who didn't share their taste in music

― Капитан ☭ (remy bean), Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

no it isn't

being pro-life, i mean, not people thinking poor people are lazy, that obviously sucks, too

xp

tbh i cant really even imagine what being in a relationship w/ a republican would be like

having once dated a "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" type i can tell y'all it worked out about as well as you'd expect

ironic detachment, matt

what?

tbh I could've even date someone who liked the Police more than Prince, so the idea of dating a Republican is pretty fuckin' abstract.

seems like pro-life guys would be torture to have sex with anyway since they don't care about you as a human being

― the girl with the butt tattoo (harbl), Friday, July 9, 2010 6:46 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

couldn't have, rather

i mean i don't really mean what i mean, mp

not to out anyone, but are there any actual conservatives on ilx?

music in general is awesome. being pro death penalty is like, either you don't understand how things work (dumb) or you think it's ok to execute people in the name of an abstraction (disgusting savage).

xxp um ok

british/canadian types can replace 'republican' with 'conservative/tory'

I could date a mainstream suburban-Ontario-type Conservative voter but not a present-day Republican, sorry. They're not equivalent positions imo. I'm willing to be convinced about the California GOP though.

either you don't understand how things work (dumb) or you think it's ok to [insert terrible thing] in the name of an abstraction (disgusting savage) basically applies to every part of the republican platform imo.

frankly anyone who says something like "oh im socially liberally but fiscally conservative" is not someone i would ever date because really who talks like that out loud youre not on a message board were on a date

yeah as soon as I hear this sentence my inner 'this person is an idiot' buzzer goes off, so I can't imagine that date going very well

I'm willing to be convinced about the California GOP though.

Nah, they're gross as hell.

what's left of the california GOP isn't much different from the rest of the country. it's a very polarized place and not filled w/ arnold-type rockefeller republicans like people might imagine it is.

xp

"oh im socially liberally but fiscally conservative" is not someone i would ever date because really who talks like that out loud

hi welcome to austin texas and washington dc

i think a lot of "socially liberal but fiscally conservative" people ilxors might end up dating by accident are just entitled rich kids who grew up with everything, including parents that bitched about socialized medicine and big government

but i may be projecting based on my own experiences

hoos...maybe it's you??

def true in some of the cases i've encountered xp

hoos...maybe it's you??

― dayo, Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:16 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark

willing to admit it's possible that i'm drawn to iconoclast-types who come from priv backgrounds that give them the freedom to do things like pursue liberal arts while also not wanting "government" to get in their way

seeing as how i've dated 3 girls of that stripe

lol

hi welcome to austin texas and washington dc

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i mean, exactly

i think a lot of "socially liberal but fiscally conservative" people ilxors might end up dating by accident are just entitled rich kids who grew up with everything, including parents that bitched about socialized medicine and big government

― death to ilx, long live the frogbs (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:15 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i mean, exactly

low hanging fruit (xp)

you gotta die gotta die gotta die for your government

i am now having shudder-ridden flashbacks to arguing about socialized medicine with that particular ex

cant believe the government is getting in the way of hoos girlfriend pursuing liberal arts education

all of them! simultaneously!

yah in my xp a lot of ppl who would identify as fc/sl are just entitled kids w/ no first hand xp of poverty & who dont really get how lucky and privileged they are

well i mean i dont have any first hand experience of actual poverty but im also not a complete asshole

I would really enjoy reading the corresponding version of this thread on the I Love America forums or whatever.

democrats are too sexually permissive

i mean the reality is w/my far left background i find more common ground w/dismantle the state types than i tend to admit on ilx. i told one of the girls i dated for a while, "i think we're just coming at this from different directions. you wanna get rid government services cause you think nonprofits & the otherwise private sector can take care of this stuff. i'm less concerned with dismantling and more concerned with building the capabilities of the nonprof/community end."

not to out anyone, but are there any actual conservatives on ilx?

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:09 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah as soon as I hear this sentence my inner 'this person is an idiot' buzzer goes off, so I can't imagine that date going very well

― iatee, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:12 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

but, like, my brother is somewhat fiscally conservative (somewhat socially, too, but he's in the military, and that kind of goes with the territory). he's not doctrinaire, he's not a bigot, so far as i can tell, and he's an extremely intelligent and interesting guy. he simply sees things differently than i do. and i kind of wish ILX were more open - or attractive or whatever - to smart, intellectually flexible and non-bigoted people with, uh, "different" attitudes. the orthodoxy gets stifling sometimes...

well i mean i dont have any first hand experience of actual poverty but im also not a complete asshole

― max, Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:21 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

well

oh snap

I can't recall any examples of some 'smart, intellectually flexible' conservative person being scared off this site

http://i.ehow.com/images/a04/jg/l2/retire-passive-income-800X800.jpg
l-r: contenderizer

i'm less concerned with dismantling and more concerned with building the capabilities of the nonprof/community end."

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

since this has come up before, that's a great way to define & defend anarchist/lefty-libertarian politics. 100% on board w that.

and the political homogeneity keeps the bickering clusterfucks to a minimum, i suppose.

waht

I can't recall any examples of some 'smart, intellectually flexible' conservative person being scared off this site

― iatee, Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:25 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

momus

political clusterfucks, i imagine he meant xp

we still have political clusterfucks

i kinda think our irregular sb clusterfucks are the closest ilx gets to debating politics insofar as they're really about the governance of a community

Like I said, I hang out with my family all the time and we have a truce — a tense one — regarding politics. I've hung out with conservatives all my life. It's fun to pick on Portland and San Fran liberals who've never been challenged.

i mean that was a dumb way for me to word that, but i hope my point got across xp

we still have political clusterfucks

― horseshoe, Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:27 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark

they're not so far removed from the arguments i used to have w/my buddies about which communist party was the right one, though

people who argue w/ republicans in sf actually have to deal w/ more crafty republicans than you do alfred...sf republicans gotta be on top of their game

i guess i mean i grew up in a conservative, fairly well-off religious community i don't feel like i have to produce my i have had my views challenged credentials.

outside of my mom and my sister every other person in my extended family is a totally unreconstructed/unreflective conservative of both the fiscal and bigoted varieties. which doesn't make it any less fun to get drunk with them on holidays, including arguing about politics, even though you know it'll go nowhere.

about the only time they make me squirm is when the racist shit comes up. then it's just like "i accept you are retarded when it comes to matters financial, social, and political, but don't make me think you're an actual bad person."

It's fun to pick on Portland and San Fran liberals who've never been challenge

hey now

that's my point though horseshoe, it's not "my beliefs have been challenged at some point in my life and here is my Challenge Badge to prove it," shouldn't our beliefs constantly be a product of the intelligent scrutiny of others?

they're not so far removed from the arguments i used to have w/my buddies about which communist party was the right one, though

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:29 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

except replace communists with filthy libs

people who argue w/ republicans in sf actually have to deal w/ more crafty republicans than you do alfred...sf republicans gotta be on top of their game

I got some gin for them.

l-r: contenderizer

i didn't grow up rich, fwiw. just snooty. my mom was a schoolteacher and my dad ditched us with a massive pile of debt. then again, they both came from fairly well-to-do families, so i was raised sort of "culturally upper class," i.e., WASPy east coast blueblood, implied safety net. lot of weird rules about formal occasions, noblesse oblige and and item-specific cutlery.

after a few years of food banks and communalism, mom remarried a western-themed radiologist with good prospects, but that was shortly before i left for college and my subsequent life of drugs, debt and petty crime.

shouldn't our beliefs constantly be a product of the intelligent scrutiny of others?

keeping in mind that i'm also the guy that started the FAILIN.GS - let ppl tell u why u suck thread, i'm willing to admit i might have a complex that insists on having people tell me why they think i'm wrong

haha bro i was sayin you were otm xp

this was perhaps not the right context into which to drop that jpg

that's my point though horseshoe, it's not "my beliefs have been challenged at some point in my life and here is my Challenge Badge to prove it," shouldn't our beliefs constantly be a product of the intelligent scrutiny of others?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sure i can agree with that. the smart conservatives i know just strike me as sophists to be honest. and even they don't vote republican!

"and the political homogeneity keeps the bickering clusterfucks to a minimum, i suppose."

waht

― iatee, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:26 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

might sound crazy, but just imagine the sinus-clearing clusterfucks if we had a few loudmouth racists, a few bookish fiscal conservatives and truthers, some men's rights creeps and a double handful of irate teabaggers clogging up the place. or even just a couple moderate conservatives with a fondness for "probing questions..."

imagine the sinus-clearing clusterfucks if we had a few loudmouth racists

i'm trying to imagine how a thread like that might go

there is a difference between clusterfucks and pileons

haha xp

I like to hear this thread title as a teaser for one of those evening news scare stories.

it would go "51 suggest bans in under an hour and goodbye"

could YOU be in a long term relationship with a republican??

contenderizer, are you really saying having someone yelling the n-word would raise the level of debate around here?

it's twelve o'clock, do you know what your sexual partner's political leanings are?

the smart conservatives i know just strike me as sophists to be honest.

― horseshoe, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:35 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

neutron truthbomb (much as i hate to admit it)

contenderizer, are you really saying having someone yelling the n-word would raise the level of debate around here?

― horseshoe, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

no no no! two different points. i sometimes think it would be nice to have a slightly more diverse group of voices present. but the tradeoff would likely be more pointless fighting about irresolvable topics. was trying to make this second point (in a rather extreme fashion) but speculating abt what would happen if a bunch of real wingnuts stormed the castle.

"...by speculating about what would happen..."

fwiw there used to be a couple of political conservatives that posted.

does don wiener still post

speculating abt what would happen if a bunch of real wingnuts stormed the castle.

this HAS happened though. several times. cf. jay batman thread implosion for most recent example.

yeah i could, depending on what type of person they are (and which right-wing political tenets they actually hold dear). a certain type of tory boy is totally my type. (and a certain other type is completely repulsive to me.) i'm all for shagging across party lines, anyway.

Being leftie is by no means indicative of being a decent bloke

totally true, and vice versa also applies.

i don't think i could date anyone who's dogmatic on either side.

lex would date a tory before a klaxons fan

does don wiener still post

lost his balls in the Great Giuliani Gamble of 2008 iirc

the smart conservatives i know just strike me as sophists to be honest.

― horseshoe, Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:35 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

i take your point here and have encountered this phenomenon, but i've met a great number of really smart people who believe in their heart of hearts that that in the same way a small company can outmaneuver a giant, a smaller government is a more nimble and efficient thing that should be encouraged while the non-&-for profs work to pick up the slack in innovative ways. i can't say i think that's wrong. all these years when i've heard GOP leaders say things like "unleash the power of american small business" i've heard it as dog whistle for "let's give GE some more tax breaks," and that might be how mitch mcconnell means it, but it's not how the people who run startup accelerators hear it.

been there done that, the tory was better in bed

god, stupid xps

maybe a more pertinent question: would people rather date a tory (or whatever right-wing type), or someone completely apolitical to the extent that they don't even seem to notice current affairs?

i couldn't date the latter, even when i'm friends with them i find myself judging them

well ever since the closet conservative i've dated one hardcore leftie and a bunch of lunatics who probably didn't even know who the current president was at the time. the hardcore leftie i'm still extremely close friends with and the apolitical lunatics scared me right back into celibacy.

admittedly for reasons beyond their apoliticalness, but the fact that they just didn't seem to care certainly didn't help.

i have slept with a guy who identifies as a republican (he is now just a friend) but tbh based on stuff he's said i think "confused" is a generous way to describe his actual system of beliefs

always give me the apolitical types

I know plenty of men under 50 who do ( or would likely) vote Tory, but can't think of any women. as to the question, I couldn't be in a long-term relationship with a Conservative because L would find out and she'd be mighty pissed off.

i've never knowingly dated a conservative. if i ever do, we probably won't last long.

i care more about values than party affiliation, but i'd be hard pressed to understand why someone with values similar to my own would identify as a repub/conserv/fiscal libertarian/etc. i think the base line for me is how much you care about other people, vis-a-vis their own personal well being and not some abstract concept of what god allegedly says is right for them.

also, anyone who's really really really really hardcore convinced with no room for debate that people are "more important" than animals in the hierarchy of needs is more or less a fuckhead.

otmfm

it just matters whats on the inside, boys http://i.imgur.com/zi7hd.gif

always give me the apolitical types

― ＤＥＨＵＭＡＮＩＺＥ ＹＯＵＲＳＥＬＦ ＡＮＤ ＦＡＣＥ ＴＯ ＢＬＯＯＤＳＨＥＤ (Princess TamTam), Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:02 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

i don't get that honestly

especially max i mean i know you give a fuck about politics, why the apolitical?

over a conservative?

that's fair, it just seemed like u were saying 'apolitical' over anything

viz a viz 'always give me the apolitical types'

^^^

I've dated too many men whose lack of interest in politics also extends to shitty taste in books and music so no thanks.

on the other hand I've never dated a guy with whom I've shared any semblance of an aesthetic sensibility so what the fuck do I know.

i dunno, people who dont pay attention to politics are in the end no more or less likely to be smart or funny or kind than people who do

we're talking extremes here. People Who Know About Politics in my experience tend to watch Chris Matthews and use "fast track" as a compound verb.

chris matthews = "people who yell about politics"

use "fast track" as a compound verb.

loll

"could you be in a long term relationship with chris matthews?"

Right I mean, an interest in politics by no means necessarily correlates to any desirable qualities ime--I just happen to be a junkie and thinking abt this stuff makes up a big part of my life, and being with someone whose eyes glazed over every time I said "Eric Cantor" would not work for me.

I'm all about the party line. Someone who didn't pay attention to anything going on in the world but consistently voted democratic, I would be totally cool with. Somebody who pays close attention to politics and current events and still decides to vote republican is someone I don't even want to have a conversation with.

Someone who didn't pay attention to anything going on in the world but consistently voted democratic, I would be totally cool with.

This irritates me no end in a person. I like friction.

(complicated answer) -- I could no more date a Republican than I could a Democrat.

i think i told my wife not long ago "if you were a hardcore republican, i would like to think i would've dumped you very early on, because if i can't imagine today living with a republican and not just arguing with them constantly"

man wait until you find that stack of national reviews she's hiding.

http://ih3.redbubble.net/work.817159.3.fig,white,longsleeve,ffffff.william-f-buckley-jr-v3.jpg

would totally rock a wfb shirt tbh

WFB Jr. painting in the style of Wyndham Lewis!

the apes of lol

I voted lol fuck no before reading the thread and seeing libertarians counted. Dated this ex-military, libertarian punk rocker for a minute, no way it was going anywhere because of the politics but you know, it was an amusing dalliance. Anyway ,after our third, maybe second, date he told me he wouldn't be around for awhile because he was getting married to a woman he'd met while stationed in Korea and she was finally cleared by immigration to move to the US but could he call me after things died down? So count me as having learned my lesson then.

hmasteryclinder

07/14/11 21:48

I do not know why, but I want to nominate Eric Cantor for the Medal of Honor. Republicans seem to have a backbone removal operation, prior to their tenure in Washington. Getting along and respect for procedure and tradition cause almost all to leave their common sense at the door. Noone thinks that, if they fail to hold the line, that line may come to every village and town in America, with bloodshed and disaster. The alternative to fighting rhetorically in Washington is actual fighting in Peoria. Which would you prefer?

Eric, perhaps we simply need more Jews in our party. You seem to appreciate what "going along" entails.

somehow that's almost predictable

xp

Eric, perhaps we simply need more Jews in our party. You seem to appreciate what "going along" entails.

going along... TO TEH CONCENTRATION CAMPS < /godwin>

hey honest q, what does fiscal conservative mean for the purpose of this thread? like what's the cutoff point between fiscally responsible and str8 up poor ppl h8ing?

lately "fiscal conservatism" means "refusing to elect Blue Dogs and their GOP brethren."

i am pretty sure for the purposes of this thread it means "i got mine, now get the fuck away from it"

so "bein a big dick about money"

I think right/left makes more sense. With rw being what the rest of the world refers to as liberal in terms of economics, no?

neoliberal/chicago school/noninterventionist

I wonder how many married people voted (complicated answer)

I could have maybe done this pre-bush43 but nowadays there's no way in hell..

lol fuck no with emphasis on the lol. i barely have any friends that are conservative, tho a v. close friend is conservative but no longer republican since the party has become too dumb for him to support. he calls himself an independent now. actually, a lot of my college friends have become more liberal over the last 8 years -- bush + repub party has alienated a lot of these kinda NYC cosmopolitan educated conservatives I think.

damned latte sippers!

I remember here that I nuked one of previous relationships with a GOP-style "libertarian" by posting about some crazy things she said on ILX, which she saw. I will never be in an LTR with a Repub as long as I hold in my disagreements--have them in the open.

i'm still not clear did you end up disagreeing in the open and something better happened or you just think it would have turned out better

lol fuck no

honestly think if I had a republican gf I would just start screaming at her every 5 minutes

would only do it if she was willing to do a2m afterward

Long term, maybe not. But I relish the idea of having sex with some crazy Republican or Christian. Something sexy about that wild eyed ignorant zealousness.

to me religion is the biggest barrier. not that i'm totally judgemental. it's just that anyone who seriously is into yon god will not let you just be chill on the matter.

Lord, please forgive jim of glasgow, for he knows not what he says

lol fuck no for sure. besides the repulsive worldview, these folks are generally lame, intellectually stunted people with shit taste in everything.

i'm still not clear did you end up disagreeing in the open and something better happened or you just think it would have turned out better

― tremendoid, Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark\

the essential problem was that when she said something ithought was crazy ("ted kennedy is a murderer, we shouldnt have our flags at half mast for him," for example), rather than expressing my opinion that said opinion was nuts i just kinda smiled and tried to disagree politely. that was a mistake, because said apparently-small-disagreements ate away at me huge over time..

dogg the problem there was not that you didnt express your opinion out loud

to me religion is the biggest barrier.

for SURE

i couldn't even casually date a religious person, i think

Republican or "conservative"....maybe a Republican, never a conservative. I don't hate them or anything, the lifestyle is too rigid and difficult for me.

yeah all that dress code and knowing which fork to eat yr soup with

that seems p weird to me. i feel strange sometimes because i think zero of my friends, right now, are religious, which is probably fairly standard given my location & milieu &c, but which is at odds with, you know, a lot of people in the world being religious, which is true, i have read it in atlases. i used to date someone religious, & who apportioned the bounty of awesomeness in their life to god's kindness, but it was - like it really almost wasn't much more 'cosmic' or 'theological' or a detachment from 'our norms' than the way i think about my life; it was at the very base of their experience of life & only a small part of the top layer of thought and philosophy that they were touching on daily, so it wasn't any kind of pronounced cultural factor in our relationship (in a way that i can see politics lending itself to being, & which i'm sure religion surely is for some others etc). just, the thing that concerns me about having an insular life away from people of different religious perspectives is that it suggests a barrier where there isn't one. religion just informs a lot of people's good actions, the same way that a belief in, y'know, society! or human kindness! or love or w/e informs mine or someone else's. our grandparents were religious & it was an engine to them raising their kids & volunteering their time to help somewhere. less than politics it seems more like it's an innocuous motivating force for a lot of people. what would bother you about it? is it the details of them believing something fantastical or ..? because that almost seems separate to me, that it's different from this main underlying thing where it's just how they've ordered life, as something that has whatever particular origins and so accordingly contextualises/informs their life.

xxxp at lex

it was at the very base of their experience of life & only a small part of the top layer of thought and philosophy that they were touching on daily

what i mean by this isn't, oh it was fine b/c they kept it a secret & didn't freak me out with overt displays of fervid worship, just that it was largely implicit, was largely a character's origin story rather than their main adventure. feel like my above post probably seems disapproving of overt religiousness, which is bad, i think there are lot of ways in which stuff like going to church is compelling & not to be frowned on &c&c&c&c&c

I dated a Conservative for a while several years ago. She was of the socially liberal/fiscally batshit variety. Came from a wealthy family. Would come out with stuff like "I don't agree with spending money to improve council estates, it will just encourage people to stay there and not try to better themselves and leave".

She got a lot worse after we dated, I'm not sure if she actually came out with that stuff while we were together. She actually started up with some shit about moving away from London because she was fed up with all the immigrants the last time I saw her, which I could never imagine her thinking when I first knew her. I don't talk to her any more.

sub-poll did your exes get a lot worse after you dated

i think i would find it so much easier to date a religious "liberal" than an atheistic/agnostic "conservative"

Would come out with stuff like "I don't agree with spending money to improve council estates, it will just encourage people to stay there and not try to better themselves and leave".

the thing is i can see how this might make sense. i don't agree with that conception of human nature and i think it'd be an awful, damaging social policy, but i don't think someone who thinks it is necessarily morally lacking. the stuff about immigrants, that is more of a deal-breaker.

re: religion - it just seems to me that to be "religious" in any meaningful sense it HAS to be pretty central to your life. that's kind of the point. if it's not then you're doing religion wrong. i mean, if you believe in god...the enormity of that necessitates taking it pretty seriously.

plus on just a personal level, i had a religious upbringing. ergo no more of that shit is to enter my life, basically - have had more than enough of it.

I don't know. I can imagine dating a fellow who disappears for an hour every Sunday for Mass without raising a fuss.

i would need someone to disappear for way more than one poxy hour a week to consider being in a relationship with them

then by all means date a Catholic.

re: religion - it just seems to me that to be "religious" in any meaningful sense it HAS to be pretty central to your life. that's kind of the point. if it's not then you're doing religion wrong. i mean, if you believe in god...the enormity of that necessitates taking it pretty seriously.

idk i think there's a difference between internal & external here, because - like it reminds me in being younger & not really understanding being religious (i had a religious upbringing too, btw, but since that mainly consisted of sitting in a pew colouring in worksheets & demanding sweets in exchange for my complicity in attending i'm referring to a later period). i think that part of what's hard to get a handle on if you don't believe is what believing entails. i think what used to alienate me so much was this idea that religious people were p much just constantly reiterating & reconfirming their belief in stuff i found dubious - yeah sure there was an ark, yep, once a day - and that that's what believing was, literally just accepting dogmatic facts. & now i think once you've interrogated that stuff some, you probably move past it (do you? starting to feeling grossly offensive by drawing up a psychological profile of everyone religious, here) & that maybe considering its nature takes up a similar amount of time as the time i expend considering the meaning of life, & where we came from - so something occasional, that varies in intensity, angle & degree of associated existential panic.

i don't know if you do have to have some associated routine if you believe in god. again i think part of this is just - like i never read that marilynne robinson novel but i started it (i think gilead?, thought it could be home), but i feel way more of a desire to understand this when i think back to my grandparents raising my folks, & doing it with a backdrop of religion, or think of the role that it probably played for people who'd been taught religion & accepted it & for whom it underpinned a benevolent belief system (cf the robinson novel, i think?, i don't know i haven't read it). like i definitely don't think that 'you're doing it wrong' if you don't have this external routine that's doing justice to your beliefs - like you go to church or you don't go to church, you give some money to the homeless guy because you feel you should or because you feel he needs it. and internally, well maybe it is something that is central there, but i don't see how that's necessarily huge, again, if it's just the same as the way in which your philosophical concerns play a role in your head.

sorry i hope i'm not sound too aggro here!, i think i'm just trying to contrast my experience, which was of it being a non-issu,e in spite of it being something that had we borne down on the facts would've revealed ostensible 'differences' between us.

you don't sound aggro, you just sound a bit patronising? dude i do know what "believing" entails and i totally know about the low-level "belief" you're talking about. i'm not sure that, once it gets low-level to a certain extent, it's really what i would term religious

i can pretty easily imagine a religious person whose general socio-politico-cultural worldview is close to mine. just as i can imagine an atheist or agnostic whose doesn't! i dont know that it would be an "easy" relationship. but ime politics has a lot more of a bearing on someone's take on the world than religion does, at least in the ways in which it matters to me.

yeah i'm sorry i think i am writing this to figure it out rather than try to explain, sorry.xp

My wife is a Catholic and she goes to church most weeks, religion isn't a thing we discuss very often and I think for her it's a cultural/roots thing as much as an ongoing evangelical process. We do discuss political ishes round the Church and are often as not close to agreement about that stuff. I try v. hard not to be a frothing atheist and most of the time i don't feel like one so it's never been a big issue for us.

On the other hand I don't think I could ever be in a relationship revolving around or approximating to love with somebody who was a Conservative of any stripe. My parents' small c conservatism has been draining enough thru my life without wanting to choose to live with somebody who is that rong/dumb/amoral/whatevs.

but ime politics has a lot more of a bearing on someone's take on the world than religion does, at least in the ways in which it matters to me.

i put this wrong--obviously religion has a huge bearing on the way someone encounters the world. i just theres a much wider variety of religious belief than there is of "conservative" belief

My wife is a Catholic and she goes to church most weeks, religion isn't a thing we discuss very often and I think for her it's a cultural/roots thing as much as an ongoing evangelical process

i'm a huge catholic in the cultural/roots sense, i never go to church and don't believe in god.

hope you're bringing up your weans in the catholic faith btw! ha.

don't think i could handle someone whose day-to-day behaviour was constantly informed by either religion or politics, in either direction on the respective spectra.

'weans' jesus it's been a while

actual kids clothes shop in glasgow (now defunct iirc) "weans world".

would only do it if she was willing to do a2m afterward

― akm, Sunday, July 17, 2011 3:27 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is he your twin brother?

my answer is (complicated answer) I think... the circumstances that might make it happen are sort of tough for me to imagine, given that in, like, my 100 closest friends I doubt any of them vote Tory, but I feel like I can generally manage to live my life around ppl w/o getting into their opinions on ~the important stuff~ more than once in a blue moon

when my gf and I went on our first or second date it was not long after the election last year - I asked her if she voted and she was like "christ no" as if I'd asked if she was running for office - thing is I wouldn't describe her as deaf or disinterested politically/socially so it just seems out of sorts more than anything

imo in the UK we're probably at an all time low in terms of what your vote 'says' about you as a person, at least assuming it's for one of the three largest parties - I realise what's being talked about here is slightly more nuanced than "votes for the [X] party" but it might be something to consider idk

i think i would find it so much easier to date a religious "liberal" than an atheistic/agnostic "conservative"

max otm i think. plenty of chill liberal religious ppl out there. my main problem with conservatives is that their positions are often coming from a place (xenophobia, racism, anger, fear, etc) that I think is morally inexcusable. There's nothing morally problematic with believing God wants you to be decent and treat ppl w/ respect tho, and there's plenty of ppl for whom that conception of God fits.

obviously my experience is pretty limited (live in a mainly agnostic country), but i've never met a young person who was religious whose religion didn't encompass at least a bit of really terrible political opinions wrt sexuality, abortion, the fact that evolution is a thing etc.

yes, your experience is pretty limited.

i almost had a fight with a guy at a party who was saying evolution was bullshit from a catholic point of view because guy was saying it was the church stance (catholic church doesn't have a stance on creationism and actually the "chief scientist" or whatever of the vatican called creationism paganism) and i was saying it wasn't, even pretended to be actually practicing catholic to give myself some gravitas in his eyes, what a dumb thing.

oh sure, its just that for me itd be the conservatism that would turn me off from dating that person, not the belief in god

yes i accept that mordy. and i'm not anti-religion or religious people, i'm latin american and i'm very cool with my family back in the old country who are typical of the catholicism there (one of the most socially conservative countries in latin america). i just feel like pointing that out, like i don't want cunts to think i'm some dawkins over here.

there are religious movements that are explicitly liberal + leftist, not just incidentally. i can't speak authoritatively on, say, unitarians, but take a look at like Renewal Judaism or other egalitarian movements that are primarily concerned w/ locating things like social justice, racial + gender equality, etc, in the religious experience.

yeah dude, when i was a child i was very liberation theology, catholicism (and no doubt other strains of the big 3) has a wonderful germ of egalitarianism in it. thinking about camilo torres can still get my eyes watering.

If the Democratic party in the US wasn't so right-leaning as compared to other liberal parties in countries throughout the world, I'd be alot more against dating a Republican. I'm kinda of the opinion that all US politics are BS and oligarchical and as long as we're compatible, I don't really care which party you vote for. On foreign & domestic fronts, the past 10 years have been dismal for both.

i don't think it's really about the difference in the parties or who you vote for, and this is just my interpretation of the thread, but we're talking here about someone who is politically aware and is conservative, not just someone who crosses a certain square of a box every few years.

i feel like all my contributions are dragging this thread into provincialism but i have nothing against small c conservatives, the failure of the welfare state is very apparent in glasgow and it's far from rare to hear people rage against the perenial labour council from a rightward view. the successes of the welfare state are taken for granted and that's understandable. but a tory i could not stand. the tories hate us, we hate them.

My current partner is not a Tory voter but occasionally says things which are uncomfortably conservative to me. The main regret this gives me is that I'm not eloquent enough to explain why these things strike me as so obviously wrong. I don't know if doing so would do anything except get us both even more wound up, but it's upsetting to find I can't back up things I hold as self-evident truths.

I've only dated one actual Tory, whose father was something high up in a big multinational and owned half of Kent. We rarely talked politics (any mention of politics by me or anyone else would get him rolling his eyes and huffing about how boring it all was) but he was a real "poor people just aren't working hard enough" type.

At that point I was feeling my most trapped by circumstances, even though I come from a reasonably comfortable background myself, and he would be genuinely amazed and annoyed that I saw options as being closed off to me. So it didn't work out, as you might expect, and he's now my least favourite ex. Not a 100% direct link to his conservatism, but I feel they're related.

My wife is sorta knee-jerk anti-labor b/c she's from west Michigan & really that's all you need to know...but she's getting over that knee-jerkiness now that she can see things from outside that vortex & in fact is spinning in the complete opposite direction at present.

We do discuss political ishes round the Church and are often as not close to agreement about that stuff.

nv how does her catholicism and your atheism play out re: children

I dated a Republican once and it was NOT a good idea. I would not repeat this error.

My parents met in DC a party to elect Kennedy or something, so it would sort of go against my upbringing, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. I dunno, I've never tried it--maybe it would be cool.

There is a certain amount of stereotyping going on in this thread. For a fair number of republicans their party identification is no more than a matter of voter registration. Similarly there are countless self-identified christians who never go to church and hold no strong views about god or religion. Such folks are republican (or christian) because they were born into it and never bothered to notice they could be somthing else.

rmde at some of the "fuck no, because conservatives are horrible, evil, stupid people and ignorant, intolerant bigots" in this thread..

"fuck no, because conservatives are horrible, evil, stupid people and ignorant, intolerant bigots"

would you rather date the world's smartest conservative or the world's dumbest liberal

Liberals do themselves no favors when they suppose that their e.g. fiscal views are simply what an intelligent person would think, rather than what a moral person would think.

the slamminest republican vs the ugliest democrat

nv how does her catholicism and your atheism play out re: children

I'm respectful of her beliefs and she's respectful of mine. She takes the kids to church and I don't go, if they ask me questions about religion I tell them what I believe but tell them that they will make their own minds up as they grow up. Mrs V's liberal and doesn't force anything on them, it's more of a "this is a thing a lot of their friends and family do" and they like to join in. Rarely have any deep theological conversations with the kids and they don't seem to have developed any of that guilt yet so hey. I don't think they're really exposed to much more religion than the majority of kids at English schools.

fiscal views are simply what an intelligent person would think, rather than what a moral person would think

outside of the bigger moral picture, anyone who thinks they can keep strict conservative fiscal beliefs in light of the last 3 years is an idiot

conservatives are horrible, evil, stupid people and ignorant, intolerant bigots

I think Conservatism in a broad sense is contrary to my view of morality and fundamentally not an intelligent way of thinking about human beings and their social and political organisation. I'm not intolerant of people believing that any more than I'm intolerant of people believing anything else that I don't. I think I'm quite intolerant of callousness, whether it be armchair showboating callousness or not. And I'm intolerant of people who choose to cling to unexamined prejudice. Somewhere for me tho, irrespective of morality, there are ideas that are the ideas of my enemies, and to some extent people who push those ideas vehemently enough are my enemies too.

and yeah there is as much stupidity in the dream of the endlessly expanding free market on a planet of finite and dwindling resources as there is in the bleakest utopias of Marxist-Leninism

eh, it shouldn't simply be that they're your ideas; it should rather be why they're your ideas. & that, I take it, is a matter of morality.

i probly shd've said "my morality" - i don't have much faith in the notion of a universal morality?

ok---but I think it's problematic to say that someone else's morality is stupid, because it makes accepting a morality a matter of "brains", as though simply by calculating we can determine what's right & wrong; & I don't think our moral stances are arrived at through that kind of reason.

hey nv we're still cool tho, right?

obv but we're not getting married eh?

xps

oh i wdn't call somebody else's morality stupid. i wd call it immoral by my own lights perhaps. when you're at that stage i'm not sure morality matters much. but then i wd argue all politics is about power and not morality.

ok---but I think it's problematic to say that someone else's morality is stupid

right, which is why it's easier to take morality out of this and say that people who willfully ignore evidence that certain economic theories have been straight-up disproven are stupid

people who willfully ignore evidence that certain economic theories have been straight-up disproven

that's a dealbreaker, ladies

lol

there are some things that seem insuperable

one is trying to explain bridge to a person who doesn't understand the concept of trump

another is the absolute blind fucking faith that a) a free market is inherently just and efficient, and b) what we have is a free market (minus certain governmental annoyances that only serve to hamper efficiency)

the latter is a given amongst some friends of mine who should honestly fucking know better. but at this point republicanism in the usa is just team sports -- as redstate dude recently said, it's cool if the us/world economy goes to hell as long as obama is blamed for it.

it is increasingly difficult being friends with ppl who subscribe to this, even though i've known them for 20 years and they've been very good friends to me personally. can't really imagine dating someone like that at all

at this point republicanism politics in the usa is just team sports

My wife is sorta knee-jerk anti-labor b/c she's from west Michigan & really that's all you need to know...

Ay yay yay.

She's getting over it! But I take it you know what I mean?

Yeah but I don't understand all the factors that made unions/labor so bad and hated on the west side, besides Calvinism, I guess.

It's the alleged imbalance of state funds between Detroit & the west, which is perceived to be a result of union power.

No one has a single decent thing to say about them, it seems like. Total rejection of everything unions have ever done, and by the people who BENEFITED and/or should be benefiting more from the work they're doing RIGHT NOW, but they voluntarily give up their rights and side with corporations. Definitely some kind of sick self-abnegation that I'm sure has religious roots.

also they are communists

My mother in law is Lanarkshire's biggest Tory. My brother in law is the biggest fucking Tory ever to quit Lanarkshire. The wife, though, isn't. Family get togethers can be awkward round election time. But to answer the question: possibly.

Personally, I'm very pro-Union. It seems that most of the arguments i hear against unions are simply holding them to a higher standard than corporations or politicians. For instance, "They are corrupt!", you could really say that about any man-made power structure.

There's a really strong sentiment in W MI that union members are people who don't want to do an honest day's work, and a lot of water is carried by accusations of laziness and greed. And the accusations are being made by people who work from 8-6 without getting any overtime, and who may even compete with each other to get to work earlier in the morning. Just don't understand what set the scene for this crazy mixture. Besides Calvinism/American Protestantism, which afaic was tailor-made for the needs of the management/corporations.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

fuck no.

seriously sorry i missed this one, but the answer always has and always will be FUCK NO

i think louise mensch may have changed a lot of the british posters' answers on this today.

wouldn't go that far, noodle vague just needs a new annexe for his wankbank

i suspect that the answers would revert back to a FUCK NO a short time into the first date with louise mensch.