The Office Season 8: It Kinda Seems Like the Left Side is the Side to Be On

I know we've had several other threads for this show, but poring through search for whatever most recent one was used for discussion is kind of annoying, plus it seemed like a good time for a new thread for the post-Michael Scott era.

Last night's premeire was hit-and-miss, but encouraging enough overall to keep me around for awhile. I think the decision to make Andy the manager was a great one, I'm glad they didn't give it to Jim. The planking stuff wasn't really funny, but I hate that stupid meme so I was glad to see it being poked fun of anyway. Stanley's glee at coming up with a new "thing" was great. Not looking forward to more pregnancy/baby stuff with Pam & Jim, but I guess there wasn't really any other way to handle her irl pregnancy.

Andy as manager is fantastic and I thought they did an excellent job of showing both how he is going to be a totally different often terrible boss from Michael and why he may not be entirely hopeless at it.

I thought Dwight was pretty great in this episode.

God, i love the receptionist.

Left side... ATTACK! slayed me.

Ryan's pretty much a one-joke character at this point, but its still a funny one.

haha yes, that was definitely a shining moment

also Andy still carrying a Gabe grudge

"Little baby Michael Scott!" joke almost made me go see what the slash fic writers had come up with for that one.

I think the decision to make Andy the manager was a great one, I'm glad they didn't give it to Jim.

Definitely an inspired choice. I didn't give him a second thought because of his anger management past, but there are so many reasons he's the right choice (I won't list them here (okay I will:

- he wasn't really doing anything of value in the show (and he wasn't even a pivotal character, having been brought in from that other office and sort of neglected ever since)
- adding focus and determination to his character works really, really well (we're only 22 minutes in and already he's stood up for his people)
- the Andy/Erin thing is poised to grow his character even further
- Ed Helms is capable of so much more than he's been able to deliver (and he probably gets 12 offers a week these days)

))

Above all, I really like that they told us early and just got on with it. It was built up enough last year – any more fuss and it would have been nagl for the show. There was no way they could have replaced Michael Scott in the minds of the viewers; this brilliant new dynamic between Andy and Robert California (loooooool) addresses that pretty well.

Jim wouldn't have worked simply because he's too important a part of the dynamic to be elevated.

Jim and Pam are my least favorite people on the show.

especially last night

Yeah, unfortunately Pam used to be among the more interesting, but she's been super boring since the wedding. I guess they don't have much choice given Jenna's pregnancy, but I am not looking forward to more of the baby stuff with them.

Maybe that's why they restored the Andy and Erin thing last year.

Speaking of babies, what's up with Angela getting both married and preggers during the break?

Yeah, unfortunately Pam used to be among the more interesting, but she's been super boring since the wedding. I guess they don't have much choice given Jenna's pregnancy, but I am not looking forward to more of the baby stuff with them.

― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Friday, September 23, 2011 4:54 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Oh god, please not that again. She is really, really boring. Another, more minor character who's gotten the shaft is Kevin. He used to be pretty funny, now they just make him look like an overgrown child.

Exciting

i'm sorry, i couldnt even watch the entire episode. it was so disappointing.
all of the SUBTLE humor that once made the show great in the first couple of seasons has completely vanished.

I mean really. In what real office do people plank every second? or form two lines and attack each other on a whim?
the beauty of the show used to be that it so closely mirrored real life; you could relate to the little awkward moments. now it might as well be a cartoon.

opening the season with a planking joke is everything that has been wrong with this show for 5 years in a nutshell.

That joke sucked but I bet it was appealing to a large demographic (and I don't mean fat people. snicker)

Andy was great. The CEO is pretty goodM I'm just glad that he isn't going to be around forever. I have a hard time caring about anyone or anything other than a good joke nowadays. I'm always okay with Kevin and Darryl though

this show has gone downhill

yeah but still kinda enjoyable.

i admit i loved that last Spader line - "there's something about an underdog that really inspires the unexceptional."

I love the fact that the nickname Tuna seemed so lame once upon a time, but now it's just what Andy calls Jim.

^^^ otm, thats one of the touches of realism that I appreciate wrt this show. I mean, lots of irl nicknames are the same way - they start out so stupid, but stick.

I still get some lols and some warm fuzzies from The Office now in the post-Michael Scott era, but it's just like comfort food now. Casseroles are rarely exciting, but delicious.

Ed Helms low billing? Andy not coping in the role? I reckon he's being written out.

He's the show's biggest star (hangover etc), and just being written as michael-lite. That's their only way to new viewers is pushing helms. The low-billing is probably a contractual thing because he came into the show in season 3.

ep stunk on ice. straight terrible.

like the first few minutes w Spader were okay, but after that...whoa!

Yeah, this ep was awful.

Andy is not Michael-lite in any way, shape or form. He's ineffectual and effective in entirely different ways, plus he is not completely incapable of (or uninterested in) grasping basic social conventions.

I still get some lols and some warm fuzzies from The Office now in the post-Michael Scott era, but it's just like comfort food now. Casseroles are rarely exciting, but delicious.

― Johnny Fever, Friday, September 30, 2011 11:12 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark

Exactly. I only watch bc I used to love, and occasionally I can get one of those good elements. But, 95% of the episode is terrible now.

The Daryl/Andy faceoff answered some questions.

...and was rehashed from "Did I Stutter?" Cold opening was the worst ever. I knew this season was going to be rough going when I noticed that everyone is smiling during the opening credits.

huh?

The opening credit sequence is different this season, and it shows shots of the whole gang smiling. Which is not exactly what a show about an office needs to be doing.

this week's was the lowest-rated episode in 6 and a half years. I would say "RIP" but it's still well above what other NBC comedies pull.

Every show but The Mentalist took a hit thursday night due to baseball (which I think was the highest rated playoff game ever?).

I imagine it was some product placement thing, but I have say, Erin as Wendy (of "Wendy's") was an inspired costume.

gabe and erin are the only characters i care about anymore. whenever gabe's creepy mug shows up on-screen i am filled with joy.

opening scenes with Andy as Michael Scott-lite were embarrassing, but I liked getting to see more of the cast this week and last ep (triumphant return of Mose!), and hope that this week's stuff was an indication of actual plots for Erin to come.

not looking forward to the other redhead though

gabe is so rubbish I thought it was the actor but his small part in damsels in distress wasn't bad and he was quite good in his big scene

he's fantastic in The Thick Of It

i am pro-gabe forever, his presence on this show is wonderfully incongruous. he's this spiteful, awkward, powerless grotesque that doesn't mesh well with anyone, particularly compared to how chummy and sitcommy the rest of the main cast has become. his "shut up about the sun!" in the last season finale is all-time for me.

also are we not talking about casting spoilers itt? because i'm also looking forward to the aforementioned casting spoiler. basically i want the office to only star people who weren't in the office seasons 1 thru 3.

tinyurl link to the spoiler? i can't find it...

he's fantastic in The Thick Of It

I mean In The Loop obv

I love Gabe. I think I was probably like Gabe in college. Ambient synthesizer music and narrative-free experimental video. I love when they rely on his pretensions for the laughs. Oscar's arrogance and pretentiousness is great too. Like that discussion he had with Daryl about Citizen Kane.

casting spoiler

oh yeah I saw that, I am massively excited about that

show is dying

this show is terrible now but andy rocking out on his legs was for some reason the funniest thing i've seen in a long time. hit a bit too close to home maybe.

I laughed heartily at Dwight's "you're fake salivating over a Soviet-era Russian" and "he has the broad face of a brewer."

Pam Dwight Jim story quite good, band story really terrible. If you think it was the other way around, you are wrong, but I suspect you will enjoy the upcoming Jenna Fischerless episodes more than I will.

Now THAT was terrible and without redeeming qualities. Three in a row like that and even I will give up.

I have either got really low standards (from years of exposure to UK comedy progs) or I saw a different episode because I found that one pretty amusing (and much better than ep.7).

Last two episodes have been surprisingly strong. The premises of last night's two plots were typical of the really bad episodes of this show, but damned if it wasn't really well written. Much laughter.

'Everyone got that answer.. except The Einsteins'

I thought it was really good too. Gabe is just one of the all time creeps, he and Dwight are hilarious together.

And goddam is Erin smoking hot.

Spader not delivering fully on the promise imo. Occasionally funny, but often not.

Okay, tonight was--to me anyway--the best from them in ages.

Really loose limbed.

http://www.tvline.com/2012/01/the-office-rainn-wilson-spinoff/

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

what do you think: better or worse than joey?

poll

The very vocal "terrifying housewife" segment of Office fans hate Dwight and would like him gone, and the last couple of seasons have been catering to that particular group to the show's detriment (probably due to network pressure) -- I think the last handful of episodes have been the writers standing up a bit to re-claim the show from that pandering, but 1. the terrifying housewives have hated these episodes ("why is every episode not centered on Jim calling Pam to tell ask her about the babies and tell her what he's doing? I hate this show!!! It's so unrealistic!!! Also GAYS!") and 2. networks are not known for a great love of writer rebellion. I'm thinking the network is floating this.

Fuck the pandering housewives, less jim and pam, more erin. preferably in as little clothing as possible.

I would watch the Dwight show, as long as Mose plays a large role.

I think they've found the groove.

You mean the groove of having some emotional tension and strong characterization in a show that only ever worked in the first place because it had more emotional tension and strong characterization than most US sitcoms? I agree. I really hope the Dwight spin-off doesn't happen, though -- the very least they could do would be to kill The Office first. The Dwight character and Rainn Wilson's acting were fantastic this episode, but fantastic in context.

Yeah, this was a good one. Jim and Pam's consternation about how to respond to the boss' texts was great, and i cant stand either character.

I really can't wait to see how the whole Kathy situation is going to pan out, especially since she seems to have grossly misread the Jim/Pam relationship but we could get curveballed.

i think the only way they could do something interesting with jim/kathy is if jim cheats (or at least srsly flirts with cheating)

so rainn wilson is rumored to be getting a dwight spin-off, and he decides to celebrate by...tweeting rape jokes?

http://i40.tinypic.com/10r8h39.jpg

I didn't see that one, but dude regularly tweets some questionable shit at times. Nothing like that one before though.

This was the "fear of feminine sexuality" episode of the Office, and although it had some good laughs (Stanley warning apparantly-about-to-cheat Jim "it just gets easier"), it left me a bit uneasy.

Funniest part was the pre-open bit with Pam/Angela/Oscar in various pairings griping about the other one.

I know no one else will agree with me but I love love loved Jim's escalating consternation with Kathy

I liked that too, mostly because I was putting myself in Jim's shoes and remembering this girl who just wouldn't leave me the fuck alone and pretended it was no big deal.

agreed, really liked the way that whole bit was played

loved this whole episode tbh, so happy to see the ensemble being used

Yeah, this season has really improved over the last couple and I feel like they're really taking advantage of the whole cast.

^^This. One of the happiest surprises re:the past few seasons is that the new characters who've been added and stayed on (Erin, Gabe, Robert California and (even though it may be too soon) Val & Kathy*) have actually brought something worthwhile to the table.

*Who was a surprisingly detailed Wiki page

Of course she does. She's the new Pam. I haven't looked, but I bet Erin's wiki page is crazy detailed too.

(What I mean to say is that there's always someone willing to put in the work online for the new Office hot girl.)

The "word association" gag was pretty A+.

no 'hipster erin' gifs?..

lol @ the last post in the other office thread too

I know no one else will agree with me but I love love loved Jim's escalating consternation with Kathy

This was great!

Zowie Deskchannel

Bye-Bye Packer!

Well he hadn't really been in any episodes for awhile right? Tbh I forgot about him entirely.

"Get the Girl" was really good! Loved Nellie's monologue at the end.

Nellie=David Brent w/bigger boobs.

Huh.

http://gawker.com/5901739/bears-beets-bad-ideas-the-office-may-be-rebooted-with-new-cast-of-characters

Nellie=David Brent w/bigger boobs.

Made even more clear with last night's episode and her borderline racist spiel at the beginning.

The Andy/Erin story, otoh, bleh. I can't even remember his fiance's name, and I've been watching every ep of this season.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17jgu3xepax5djpg/medium.jpg

you have to admit this promo picture is kind of bad-ass

yeah i like that.

i feel like this season is back on the right track, but the andy/erin thing just needs to go away.

Ryan was p hilarious in the newest one.

I'd rather she be alone than with somebody - is that love?

Also the poem thing was a++

Last night was very high quality -- the end of season eps almost always are -- and proof that Ryan posts to ILM regularly.

Nellie & the taco=A+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIYYRRUhQ8

oh, spader

The season finale was pretty terrible.

Yeah, it was a letdown, and I say this as an Office apologist.

Me too. I spent a lot of time defending it this season, but I was really put off by that. It was like they had a bunch of decent ideas bubbling underneath but were really afraid to commit to anything. They usually manage to pull things together for a memorable finale, but this was such a subpar episode by any measurement.

It barely even stopped, let alone felt like a finale, and the desperate ...wrapping up? no, just stopping... of the neglected side-plotlines from this year was insulting.

Not that anyone cares, but David Denman (Roy) is returning for Season 9, while Lieberstein, Kaling, and possibly Novak are leaving and Clarke Duke and Jake Lacy are coming aboard. The story.

I care! ... sorta. Clarke Duke I'm guessing is gonna be the Dwight replacement, as the Weird Looking Guy.

Roy in one episode only, nbd

Daniels says Season 9 will be it for the series.

thank god, well overdue, etc.

someone on twitter pointed out that steve carell, who never won an emmy for the show, has a decent chance of winning a guest actor emmy if he comes back at the end of the season.

hmm i didn't see the bit where daniels is coming back to showrun the final season. i've long suspected his focus on parks and rec contributed to the office getting shitty, so this is good. otoh i don't want parks and rec to get shitty either.

Schur's staying on Parks & Rec.

This is w/o a doubt the best news about this show in forever.

schur's got a new show he's working on. hopefully more involvement from daniels plus wrapping things up will be good for some inspiration. the one thing i've seen about what the new guys will be doing did make me laugh. also apparently they will be addressing the documentary aspect. also the show had some serious issues before carell left but boy would the last michael scott episode made a good finale. i think for most ppl it is really anyway.

there was a snarky av club article about schur's pilot that said "y'know, people can think about more than one thing at a time," but that's lies imo. like when "the o.c." had its charming and soapy first season and josh schwartz was like "great, i'll branch out to other shows now!" and then "the o.c." became the worst show in the entire world.

yeah ppl have managed multiple shows but shows have also suffered from ppl stretching themselves thin. kinda worried that schur doing that new show - which nbc passed on, but fox snatched up right? - plus every show from that old block either officially wrapping up (office, 30 rock) or on life support (community) plus greenblatt's comments specifying that shows like those thursday comedies being not what he wants going forward = closer to the end than the beginning for p&r.

Is Peretti the only writer leaving P&R though? Wittels was signed on to act in Sarah Silverman's new show, but it didn't get picked up so he's staying on Parks. Seems everyone on that show on-screen and off has the same mindset about how to make it; as long as it stays good this year then the rest of NBC burning in flames around it is nbd afaic.

BTW from Daniels:

There are a lot of things that I’ve personally been wanting to do since season two … All questions will be answered this year. We’re going to see who’s behind the documentary

ugh this sounds terrible

We’re going to see who’s behind the documentary

please please please be Werner Herzog

literally the only remotely good theory i've heard for the documentary crew at this point (and really the best option is just ignore it, it's just a narrative device no need for explanation or even consistency in imo) is that the 'documentary' is just a class in a local community college, that the point of it is for students to learn how to shoot, edit, etc, that nobody will ever see the footage and that the ppl shooting it now aren't even the same ppl who were shooting it when the show began. i'm also certain this will not be the explanation and that the answer will be awful but not as awful as take yr pick from last season.

tbh i wanted to know more about the "story" of the documentary conceit in the early years, but they've abandoned its internal logic so many times at this point that it feels toothless. then again i'm still butthurt that the end of s2 was a lone cameraman managing to capture the spur-of-the-moment kiss between jim and pam, and then when we flashback to the same scene in s3, they show it from multiple different camera angles. part of the strength of that scene was the voyeuristic/naturalistic way it was captured -- like we were lucky to be seeing it at all. but then boom it's next season and they're showing it from all the traditional hollywood angles.

xp community college crew is more satisfying than anything i've come up with, i like it

it would also explain why the numerous lawsuit- or criminal charge-worthy incidents that have occurred aren't ever prosecuted on the basis of the film. didn't michael try to plant drugs on toby on camera fairly early on?

capri salad!

man i'm not one to worry about later lesser seasons harming a legacy or whatever usually but i think i may have actually forgotten how good this show was once

are we doing this again?

More like Clark Douche, amirite?

Anchorwoamn Erin: Yow to tha Za

This roots back to last season, but Nellie and Dwight are so going to do it by season's end or sweeps.

Overall, a better season strat than last year. I guess winding down has been good for them.

"Season START", even.

Nellie and Dwight already did it, didn't they? tbh I just remember a few things about last season, but it seems like that was one of them.

Nah, Dwight chickened out in the end

Teaching homeless people nautical flag signalling. Sounds like something Romney would say he does.

Creed: "The Taliban is the worst. <pause> Great heroin though."

Yeah this season is way better.

New Jim and Dwight are funny.

I like how Andy is less of a sad-sack and more of a completely oblivious white collar imbecile.

So crazy how professionally done-up they look compared to the beginning of the show. Just a thought.

LOL @ Darryl backing away from Dwight wielding a meat cleaver over Nellie's hand

So crazy how professionally done-up they look compared to the beginning of the show.

That kind of happens with any American show that starts out all realistic and then runs for years (Homicide, NYPD Blue, even Parks & Reacreation now).

That said, I was slightly shocked at how made-over Erin in the premiere compared to even last season. It's like she did a fashion mag cover shoot and she got to keep all the clothes and the make-up artist.

This roots back to last season, but Nellie and Dwight are so going to do it by season's end or sweeps.

I'm thinking Erin and the non-Clark intern (Nu-Jim) will hook up, based on the closing shot, when Andy was getting his last take in.

That said, I was slightly shocked at how made-over Erin in the premiere compared to even last season. It's like she did a fashion mag cover shoot and she got to keep all the clothes and the make-up artist.

― 50 Shades of Greil (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, September 28, 2012 12:11 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the only thing that kept me watching, to be honest.

not great but better than last season for sure. new guys are funny. elle kemper did look kind of ridiculously stunning and then in the 'anchorwoman' getup - mother of god. re: how professionally done-up everybody looks now when mac got fat last season on it's always sunny in philadelphia the reasoning i heard him give in an interview is that tv shows the ppl get better looking as the show goes on while in real life the opposite happens.

A bunch of the actors got producer titles and, according to Jenna Fischer, significantly more writing input this season, and they unanimously wanted to be less cartoony. So far, so good.

...the show is actually good this season, but I think I may be the only living person watching.

I agree, that episode was p classy. Dwight was top notch.

Also throwing Oscar Núñez, maybe the best actor on the show, a good plotline again after so many years is not a bad idea either.

I really enjoyed that too. Erin calling herself Mr Hannon when she was told she'd be the boss.. Jim's "Sexy Batman" voice..

Yeah, this show is good this year. Jan looking pretty good. I dont seem to remember this thing she had for younger guys though.

That was a brilliant unspoken subtext of the super awesome Dinner Party episode.

Oh - oh! The slideshow, guys. "Mommy you're a superstar..." - it took me a second to realize the song wasn't *to* the kid.

It's gotten so much better with Daniels' return that it's a shame it's ending.

This last season is pretty awesome. I think it would be funny if Andy just never returned and this is the last we ever see of him.

haha yes

except it was maddening that Jim didn't use his empty office for the conference call

Erin's cute sister wrote the episode and played Jan's assistant!

There are now going from strength to strength. I am going to pretend that every episode after "Cafe Disco" up until the beginning of this season never happened. Even the group scenes which have made this show so embarrassing in the last couple of years are terrific now. And Greg Gethard was awesome.

I guess I should finally get around to watching this show. Is there a good season/episode entry point? If I'm happy to skip the "finding itself" early seasons, where should I start?

Want to say it's fine after the first couple of seasons, when it diverges from the British blueprint. Then it's pretty solid for a couple of years.

I would say first five seasons (the first is mostly very weak, but also short and has the first really strong non-English office episode, "Diversity Day"), cherrypick season 6, 7, & 8, and watch this last series live.

skip season one, start with season 2 episode 1, watch on through season 4 then yeah it gets very iffy really at around s5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLMme9ItKCw

"Diversity Day" remains one of the greatest things I've ever seen on television (and instantly made me into a Mindy Kaling fan)

i'm watching diversity day on netflix because i don't remember it and i didn't realize how much the appearance of the show has changed. it looked a lot cheaper and more handheld before and it was better. i had also completely forgotten about michael somehow.

they only used real office lighting on the first six iirc

This roots back to last season, but Nellie and Dwight Toby are so going to do it by season's end or sweeps.

Fixed.

I wonder if they'll do a extended cut of this one--certainly felt it could have gone on longer.

Show is firing on all cylinders right now, but completely differently than its previous peak. Some of the faces are the same, but this is a completely different show than it was in seasons 2-4 and every bit is great.

That was a fucking awesome episode. Dwight just ruled.

I'm glad they're ending on a high note so far

also wau Toby

Is Toby the Scranton Strangler though? I kind of wonder after this episode.

I could see that twist happening.

Justifying Michael's suspicion and hatred of him for all of those years.

Dwight's xmas character was a renamed Krampus (can't remember his name, Bel-something). He even had a Black Peter sidekick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belsnickel

Ah, I guess there's a whole world of lore out there.

Krampus not obscure enough.

Anybody else catch this last night? Another quality ep, Erin getting to shine.

Yeah, it's nice to watch this show again with some level of expectation.

catherine tate's monologue in this was great.

Bald Meredith!

"Shave her head!" Meredith

this week's giant ad for nespresso was pretty fucking woeful

Just reached season 5, still enjoying this show. Guess I'm starting to enter to the danger zone here, from what you said above, but it still seems pretty solid.

I've been mainlining this for the past week or so - getting towards the end of S3 (Phyllis has just got married) and think I might need a sizeable break from it before going back in.

I felt the same but we carried on anyway, and glad we did. Couple of overlong episodes at the start of S4, then it gets back to normal.

Hmm. Just watched the Roy meltdown and I'm pretty sure I need a break.

I missed a couple this season, so perhaps I'm wrong, but is this the first time we've seen documentary crew on the show?

Alos lol on them finally getting back to the Toby-Nellie thing.

I knew the documentary crew would be revealed at some point this season. Tonight was the night, I guess.

Also, Darryl taking the keys out of the ignition so Dwight couldn't leave. *cheers*

pretty good breaking of the fifth wall or whatever, i thought

that whole fight between Jim and Pam was pretty cliche, but Pam crying still got to me

It was predictable, and Jim was a bit extreme, but at the same time, I felt like it was pretty real.

Fight was only as cliche as fights between married folks are. Seemed familiar to me. Jenna Fischer's a terrific cryer, and the Office has been smart enough not to overuse that over the years.

Also the terrifying housewives of the Office fansites seem to have bad ears and are fighting over whether the documentary dude called Pam "Midge" (which he did) or not.

he did? i missed that

Yup. Rewound and checked.

Toby-Nellie was hilarious.

Toby is reaching epic levels of creepiness. *Shudder*

her face during the massage was great.

Great episode. Pam knocked it out of the park at the end. I really loved Darryl forcing Dwight to clean up.

The non-Andyness of the show recently was odd at first, but now it seems they are thriving without him.

Haven't bothered to find out, but why isn't Ed Helms around for these episodes? Hopefully they aren't making Hangover 4.

He was probably doing Hangover 3 when he actually left. Whether he's doing another film now or they're keeping him away for story reasons, it's working.

Last night we learned that the father of Jenna Fischer's child is a pretty lousy director.

the boom guy thing is handled really forcibly, like it's the result of 'oh shit how are we going to end this thing' rather than any intellectual or creative pursuit

also, pam shits me off more than any character I can think of this century – all those years of her growing confidence and jim backing her to realise her full potential, yet here we are in year nine and her magnum opus is a mural in the fucking warehouse

nobody grows in this thing, apart from andy who's (a) a ring-in, (b) not even growing in a believable way and (c) in bed for like the past four weeks

oh unless he left properly as per the discussion upthread, if so I fell asleep in whichever episode that was

Andy got into a boat with his brother Josh Groban and sailed to the Caribbean, where he decided to stay for an indeterminate amount of time

Is no one else seeing this Pam/Brian storyline as a counterpoint to the Jim storyline from last season where that woman in the office was aggressively pursuing him? It's being handled very clumsily aside from the tag with Jim talking about focusing on the people he cares about, meaning Darryl when it's his marriage he should be concerned about, but I think there's supposed to be a conscious echo there

i think you're onto something, but i was more reminded of Pam's original engagement to Roy when she met Jim

Yeah that's a good point, especially given that the show is winding up it would make sense that they would put that type of parallel to Pam's original romantic situation up

I just wish they hadn't done this with a magic handsome boom mic operator that we've never heard of before until he white-knighted his way onto the show for three episodes in a row

agreed; the best they could do was have that somewhat awkward line about "following someone for 8 years" to get close

yeah. this feel's super forced. i hope they handle it well.

and as tough as things are, one spat w/ Jim during a stressful time shouldn't have her running into the arms of a good looking guy who holds a microphone.

I thought they'd actually done a decent job showing the stress ramp up into a serious relationship problem, and Brian as a sympathetic person whose relationship to Pam we'd never seen before actually fit in well with other versions of this story I've seen on actual reality shows, where the person working on the show who starts a relationship with a cast member eventually gives up their job and becomes part of the show (the Dave/Kira relationship in RW:Seattle, Kandi/Todd on RHoAtlanta). The thing I didn't buy is the acceleration of the romantic temptation.

I totally thought the Jim Pam blow-up was realistic and I see it as a real problem...I just don't get the idea that we're supposed to believe she'd be running into someone else's arms over that. She did it before and I see that parallel, but Roy was an asshole and Jim worked it for years and years.

what am I doing here. I have work to do.

you and me both

Eh those last two eps were ok. Feels like it's getting more into convoluted territory once again. Jim moved out of the house w his wife and kid and got a second place? Either this is one of those startups that is massively successful and makes a profit from day one or selling paper part-time at DM is really paying the bills.

I really don't care about the boom operator. Feels like they are needlessly fabricating stories.

From what I understand, he and Darrell are splitting that little apartment, until they can get full-time jobs in Philadelphia and presumably move Pam and the kids.. Jim only found out this episode that he would only be paid part time at Dunder Mifflin now.

o i thought they already had full-time jobs in philly. why would you get an apartment for a part-time job?

If it's a few hours a way and you're there half the week and working late hours and it's a 1-bedroom shared by 2, it's not the worst idea ever.

according to google it's a 2-hr drive. iirc, rent that's just outside philly ain't that bad

I liked the Junior Salesmen episode, but I think the Vandalism episode was awful -- a mediocre script made worse by Lee Kirk's direction.

the other thing that made no sense to me is that blatant vandalism like that of an art project commissioned by the company should have gotten dude fired or severely reprimanded before he attacked Pam; it would have made more sense if dude had yelled something about her defacing his truck after getting him canned

but if he got fired she probably wouldn't have bothered to deface the truck, so... but that would've made more sense in a way

yes, wikipedia confirms that the vandal was in fact, Bram from Lost

(xpost)The inquiry scene w/Pam, Toby & Nelly was really lame and (even for this show) unbelievable.

but if he got fired she probably wouldn't have bothered to deface the truck, so... but that would've made more sense in a way

it would have made sense if she and Dwight went out to deface the truck before they found out dude was getting canned

It was rash and out of character for Pam to deface the truck, but she is looking for ways to feel impulsive and free-spirited. She doesn't have Jim's cleverly-planned pranks to amuse her, so she goes to Dwight for a partner in crime, and gets sucked into his ill-thought vandalism. (She's resistant at first, but without someone loving and appreciative of her to calm her down, she indulges the only affirmation of *any* of her feelings she's getting at the moment.)

Brian is obviously into her, and we don't know for sure if she's consciously aware of that - but if she is, it also makes sense to team up with the only male in the office that she has a connection with, where that connection is 100% non-sexual/romantic, to try and distance herself from having to acknowledge it and decide how she feels.

blatant vandalism like that of an art project commissioned by the company should have gotten dude fired or severely reprimanded

Seemed clear that HR's policies just didn't allow for this, as Frank knew the inquiry was toothless. Fair enough too, you wouldn't expect a paper company to pre-plan for a situation where their least efficient employee would get to spend months and months periodically slacking off in other employees' workspace to piss about with an unwanted, pointless, and awful "art project," let alone then protect the slacker.

cheers for the andy update, djp

the whole jim/pam drama thing feels waaaaay too manufactured to be believable. not that the situation itself isn't believable, but the show has just let them be happy and normal and BORING for like twelve thousand years, and now suddenly it's the final season and oops a crisis. it doesn't help that neither fischer nor krasinski seem to be doing any actual acting 99% of the time.

i'm not angry or entitled about this, but i think it could have been handled far, far less synthetically if the production hadn't let them just sit and fester for so long.

In fairness they killed the actual fight

, but the show has just let them be happy and normal and BORING for like twelve thousand years

sure - they've stagnated in their happy family bubble of accepting job situation and having kids, now that stasis has been disrupted and its causing conflict that they're not practiced at dealing with

totes legit imo

in actual life it's legit, but in the narrative of a long-running show it feels forced (especially as they were basically forgotten about for so long, in favour of andy/erin or dwight's antics or whatever)

coupled with what i mentioned upthread about pam's lost potential, both as a creative person or as an interesting character, and it's just an annoying arc to be running with now

fuck that was a badly structured sentence

they were basically forgotten about for so long

bcz nothing interesting was happening with them!

(or irl bcz they were Daniels/Schur's story, and now Daniels is back. but babies and happiness are boring, or at least don't take place in the office, so I'm fine with it - their periphery to the plot was not one of the significant weaknesses of the Lieberstein years.)

bcz nothing interesting was happening with them!

that
is
my
point

they made a decision to give those two happiness, which is nice, but contentment = dull

so they stopped focussing on them, which you're also complaining about!

now something interesting* is happening with them, and they're focussing on 'em again

* (maybe, I'm v leery about the whole Brian element)

not every episode of Cheers was about Cliff's relationship with his mother, or who Carla was banging

Jim was acting like such a jackass towards Daryl that I was rooting for Pam to cheat on him by the end of the episode.

Surprise clarity and forwardness from Kevin at the senator's party. The smirk Angela gave as she was leaving was perfect.

i don't want to come off like i'm overselling how good this season is, because it's not great, just such an improvement over the past few seasons that it feels "great" by comparison, but i kinda feel like this darker direction is p brave for a show that built like half its audience on "aww Pam & Jim". i'm just hoping it builds up to something worthwhile because the boom guy is pretty forced and the vandalism episode was like season 6 level terrible.

not every episode of Cheers was about Cliff's relationship with his mother, or who Carla was banging

they were never central characters

I hope Kevin speaking the truth becomes recurring. He also did it in the conference room about Erin and Pete flirting.

kevin's truth-from-tactlessness has been a recurring thing i think

It's great that they gut such mileage out of the "these people didn't really give Kevin alot of credit but later realized he was a true bro!" but really they should just follow him for a day instead. Or Creed, or Meredith, for that matter. Or Toby. In fact all the supporting characters in the office seem like passed-by opportunities for episodes that may not have to deal with Jim & Pam but would be a hell of a lot more interesting, funny, and original.

As I had hoped, the "now that I am executive producer my new husband shall direct" episode was just a blip. Good one last night, and Andy's return was handled extremely well.

yeah, that was great. it was nice how wassname told erin he wanted her to be happy, and that's what made her see sense. really lovely writing.

curious to know how catherine tate feels about being an extra.

New Michael!

I mean ok maybe it's because I'm watching drunk and alone on Valentines Day but this show seems extra depressing tonite

yup it was, but it felt more coherently depressing than usual? if that makes sense

Probably because they're trying to make every relationship on the show look hopeless, then pair that with valentines day.

They should bring back Holly and Michael just to ruin their relationship too.

Really loving Bob in this. The new Michael!

He was really good, but it had the meta-effect of reminding me that the Michael Scott schtick is kind of tired at this point (much like Pam's eventual feelings)

Every week increases my hatred of Jim.

Every time they try to "expose" a Jim quirk he just comes of douchey.

Andy is so dreadful, they must be setting him up for some spectacular comeuppance, or else there's no justice in the world.

Jim is awful too but I guess it's consistent characterization. Remember when he bought a house without asking Pam? I was so annoyed by that, particularly when Pam ended up being like "squee you got me a house!" instead of "these are the kind of decisions we ought to be making as a couple."

she's learning, i suppose

I don't think he's being a jerk about this in particular. She coulda expressed some reticence or put the breaks on a bit. I don't think it's ridiculous for him to feel that staying a paper salesman when he has a chance to do something cool and interesting is untenable. I hope the show does not end with him coming around to realizing how at home he is at the office.

^^^ dis

it seems like the show is angling to make them reality celebs since they've now hinted the documentary is about to air. well, at least kevin and oscar.

Man I am surprised Andy didnt get fired/demoted at the end of the episode...

So I take it the Dwight storyline was probably all cannibalized footage from his unaired spinoff pilot.

iirc this episode was originally intended as the backdoor pilot to the spinoff, they just recut it and changed some storylines around to keep it in the office series' flow after the dwight series wasn't picked up.

Ah. I can see why the Dwight show didn't happen.

I almost didn't hate that episode, and then the Decemberists vomited cotton candy all over it.

i thought it was OK actually, since they toned down Dwight back to his still-kinda-human days

The earliest Dwight was the funniest to me and always had me thinking "I know that guy! What a tool" but once the alpha amish farmer Dwight was fully realized he was too cartoony for me to find funny. Not that I'm a boring enough person to only find things funny by "how true!" they are but that angle was the appeal of the concept of The Office.

Did anyone like this new ep?

I liked last week better. OTOH, there's this:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4899ea5c4dd077cc70984146651c0692/tumblr_ml48xebhwK1rdh9g0o1_500.gif

and: “It wasn’t until I married Angela that I realized how charmless the female body was.”

i didn't think it was terrible. wrapping a tranquilized stanley in bubblewrap and sliding him down the stairs was ott but funny. i also liked the dog, cat, mouse guy, who was a bit surreal. idk. it was far from the worst episode this season.

lol stanley's evel knievel helmet.

and: “It wasn’t until I married Angela that I realized how charmless the female body was.”

meredith's response to that line was one of the saddest character-glimpse moments in this show ever

I don't remember what she said.

"always hurts to hear that one"

flashback to the wedding = cheap awwwwww moment but effective

competitive erin is good stuff.

the pam and jim marriage dissolution seems forced, like they want to inject dramatic interest into a show that has been all light farce for several years now, and end on a note closer to the early seasons.

yeah i agree w this to a certain extent. i know a few ppl who are legit worried that they were gonna end with the two splitting up though, so they must be doing something right

erin is fantastic, she will do better things after this show, i hope

guess my theory

http://www.northernstars.ca/News/2010/glen_gould_still.jpg

Chris Morris on The Day Today?

Michael Scott isn't coming...back.

Tonight's episode was v good.

Satisfying, even.

agreed, they're playing all the cards now

best episode in several years. where did they suddenly pull that from? so many amazing moments i don't know where to start.

There was a huge cast party in Scranton last night, proceeds to local charity, and Steve Carrell showed up.

Except for the stupid Jim/Pam discord, I think the last season and a half has actually been pretty high quality. I don't think pulling off one episode of this caliber came from nowhere.

yes but it's head and shoulders above everything, especially in some really well done character dilemma moments

(by that i mean which way a character will behave under a particularly unusual circumstance)

okay now that the iron is off i can elaborate without burning down the place. the three moments that really jumped out at me were:

1. having andy jump the firing gun by volunteering to resign, and then having to respond to basically the whole office telling him to stay, while he knew he actually didn't have that choice. obv that was resolved fairly quickly by him being offered the sales position, but a couple of scenes (where various office members were telling him how dumb he was being) were absolutely thrilling to watch.

2. dwight wanting to tell the office he was the new manager, but david asking to be the one to announce it then being distracted by a phone call, and dwight genuinely struggling about whether he should wait or just blurt it.

3. oscar offering angela a temporary place to stay. with all their recent history completely understood, and angela's constitution being so fragile at that moment, she could have reacted in so many ways (the reaction she chose made me tear up fwiw)

there was other great stuff too (jim & pam genuinely hugging dwight in congratulation; angela opening up about dwight; erin hoping (and failing) to go on a double date with jim & pam; pretty much every line kevin had), but the three points above really gave those characters a chance to shine.

also, this episode didn't feel like a double at all—so very tightly written and edited that 'er indoors and i didn't even notice how long it was.

the only thing that spoiled this episode was andy actually crapping on david's car. silly.

but a couple of scenes (where various office members were telling him how dumb he was being) were absolutely thrilling to watch.

I can see this, but I felt like the ep almost lost me bcz it went into that mode where everybody had to reiterate over and over again how unsuited Andy was for show business, which was done to such a degree that it began to feel a bit forced. Which is why I ended up liking the emotional climax centering around him covering Sarah McLachlan, something that would normally make me cringe: because it threw all of that into sharp relief.

I think now that the Andy character has been resolved, it can be said that the writers did a real good job with his character. He was a tremendous flake, but the show was full of tremendous flakes, and it probably wasn't an easy task to differentiate him from Michael Scott. But I think the writers did a good job of doing that and keeping his character internally consistent, and using his flakiness to kind of play with some of the show's other plot formulae (ie setting up Andy/Erin along the same lines as Jim/Pam or Michael/Holly, then having Andy completely fuck it up...)

I half agree with that, but I found it weird when during the second half of this season they completely switched away from the audience sympathizing with him when the actor had to disappear for several episodes, mistreating Erin, etc. His annoying qualities had been toned down or given a more sympathetic "late-Michael Scott" sheen over the past two seasons (remember when he was supposed to unite the office as an "underdog"?). My guess is that they turned away from the Andy/Erin subplot when it was clear that there wasn't really enough chemistry between the two of them, hence them setting up the Erin/New Jim romance...

But then again I did kind of enjoy the scenes of people constantly telling him he was making a terrible horrible decision and Andy going back and forth until finally taking a dump on the hood of his boss' car

i agree with Nhex. Andy, as a character, has been a mess; the writers never seem sure about how they want to write him. i think this is an issue that goes back a ways in the show.

otm

making him manager was a gutsy move but it didn't pay off. they even had to rely upon suspended disbelief with the audience (punches a hole in the wall, years later is manager, nothing for a while then punches hole in wall again, forgotten rather quickly). now he's such a mish mash of backed out premises, discarded character traits and inconsistent behaviours that it's hard to give a toss about him at all any more. oh he wants to be an actor now? um okay. oh he's violent again? um okay. oh he likes erin again this week? um okay.

fwiw i'm not criticising the decision to have him replace michael scott; i'm sure they worked hard to make a character decision that retained the balance of the show

"backed out premises, discarded character traits and inconsistent behaviours"

this is like real life tho

i mean that describes most ppl i know pretty well.

it's in other people's reactions to him too though, e.g. when he was made manager nobody said 'whoa shit he punched that hole in that wall and now he's managing me' iirc

Andy dropping the manager trophy at the opening really sort of describes the post-Michael Scott Office perfectly.

i think the season with robert california was ok. or at least the idea of bringing him in was good... shake up the dynamics of the office thoroughly enough so it doesn't feel like something's missing. there were some good episodes last season.

catherine tate must be looking for a new agent by now

I'm more annoyed about Andy not mentioning Cornell in the last few seasons than the whole wall-punching-to-manager arc, I think...there's a lot of stuff that happened in the interim that I think helped to make that only part of his character. Obv the inconsistencies have been embedded in the character so that Andy p much has only a vague notion of up and down on any given day. Of course that plays against the credibility of him becoming manager, but I think that's explained away p easily:

1) nobody knew what they were doing
2) Jim's main concern was keeping Dwight out
3) punching a wall is kind of normal compared to some of the stuff Michael got away with. I mean, he kidnapped a pizza boy once.

oh yes that's true

Kind of amazing that he could be gone from work for 3 months and not get into trouble w corporate? I know they explained this in the episode he came back from his boat trip but it was a pretty flimsy explanation that I couldn't recall if my life depended on it.

it helps that wallace went totally screwball before he returned

in fact david, jan, robert california and kathy bates all being off their trolleys has enabled some serious deux ex machina

'how do we explain this ridiculous situation? let's make the ceo a basket case! that solves everything!'

well, that part is actually kinda true to life

best episode since 'goodbye michael'

i was pretty happy with this one. also lol at the steve carell malarkey mentioned earlier, only to show him in the episode preview for next week

wish last week was the last with andy...would've been a good way to go out, bummed to have this totally depressing coda.

And it looked like they showed Steve Carell in the interview thing, so maybe not in the actual episode.

Steve Carell made an appearance at their city-wide "wrap party" in Scranton last week, which it appears they're going to show some part of in the recap show prior to the episode. I don't think he's in the actual final episode, though.

bummed to have this totally depressing coda.

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. When they started the whole acapella thing, I thought they were going to give him a sort of successful "out", maybe end it with him making the cut at the audition level and leaving his future somewhat hopeful. I didn't think I cared as much about his character, but it was a bummer way to end. Maybe he'll be redeemed in the "six months later" thing.

presumably he'll have hooked up with Wompler

They should have just had Dwight run the office instead of Andy.

actually i like that they ended the saga with Dwight and Jim as blissful manager and assistant manager, wouldn't surprise me if that was one of their long-term endgoals

xxp ohhhhh right she was one of the woman from Best Friends Forever

Maybe he'll be redeemed in the "six months later" thing.

― i kant believe it's not buffon (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Saturday, 11 May 2013 01:06 (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'd stick money on that tbh

They should have just had Dwight run the office instead of Andy.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 11 May 2013 01:18 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that works as a sort of lol we have one episode conceit, but for an unknown number of years it would probably have changed the dynamic of the show way too much

btw interesting how they just dropped the brian thing (presumably they got feedback early enough to be able to do something about it). incorporating the documentary crew the way they did this week (compiling footage for pam) was at least a billion times better

So dude came back, I hear.

Just for a bit part.

...That's what she said!

In all seriousness, I thought Erin's arch was a sweet leftfield surprise.

yeah, great that erin got a good ending in all this

michael's cameo was perfectly executed: get him in for something important; give him a couple of lines (obv carell is rusty as michael now); let the show wrap up its current stories without him

i thought it was annoying that erin's birth parents decided to spring that on her during the televised panel. would it have been that hard to discretely contact her before the fact?

they were weird

Yeah appearances of long lost parents like that in shows usually are built to make you suspicious of their true motives.

Though the episode overall was basically a clip show where nobody felt like acting.

And the scene where Andy ran into the huge crowd of fans waiting in the other room would have been way more effective if the camera followed him around the corner to reveal the crowd. Just a thought.

I'd like to think Erin's parents saw her on the doc, and then tried to reach her through PBS, and then the docs producers persuaded them to reintroduce themselves at the panel to spice up the eventual bonus feature.

i liked the kinda-cheesy casting of Ed Begley Jr. and Joan Cusack. they seem like such generic hippy rom-com parents

Best part of that scene was how everyone else in the panel and the audience realized what was happening before she did.

yeah, that erin's a dopey sweetheart

Also loved Pete's bit about he's still not famous or anything, but now all his friends call him "Plop" so that's great.

Though the episode overall was basically a clip show where nobody felt like acting.

― Evan, Friday, 17 May 2013 23:41 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes! in that respect it was hard to tell the difference between the talking heads in the retrospective clip show thing and the actual final episode

<3 erin, xpost. but yeah, overall this episode was lame and unsurprising. i felt happy for andy in the end, getting a job in the admissions office at cornell. i didn't even know i cared about that character but this was the only emotional response i had to this episode.

i didn't have much emotional attachment at all. it all happened, there were things, people did stuff, they all did their final speeches, the end. only time i actually felt nice about it all was in that group photo in the warehouse with greg daniels &c., but even that was awkward.

They added 15 minutes to it, but imo they could've cut out 15 minutes of Dwight and Angela's wedding and it would've been perfectly okay with me. I guess they needed that so Michael could have his cameo, Nellie could get her baby, and Ryan and Kelly could flee together.

the baby thing was depressing to me. isn't it traumatic for babies' primary caregivers to keep changing?

i mean functionally it all ~worked~, and everyone did the sorts of things you would expect them all to be doing, but the execution felt a bit by-the-numbers

xp yeah, the baby thing was in character for ryan, slightly dissonant for kelly, and just completely wtf for nellie (because we still don't know who she is; she might as well be an extra for all the difference it makes)

actually no i take that back, perfectly in character for kelly

losing the wedding also meant losing the string band version of "Sweet Child of Mine", so NO.

It was very Dwight that his first reaction to the limo stopping and seeing a man with a bazooka standing in a field was to assume that Jim had turned on him.

yeah that was good. the part with dwight and the stripper was stupid and forced though. i don't know what they could have done better with this episode... this season was a mess. the early seasons of the office still contain many of my favorite moments in television history though.

otoh, the fact that Angela's stripper was Meredith's son and the only person not weirded out by that being Meredith was p awesome.

yeah that was great. i think it could have been better executed because it was undermined/cut short by the ridiculous mose kidnapping plotline, but i shouldn't complain bc it was still funny

The wedding was good, come on. The hair metal and the entire Kelly/Ryan scene was A++++ for their characters. "It's a combination of Drew and Blake".

"She went out to get a battery for her E-Cigarette..."

And come on, the "you came" "that's what she said" was expected, but perfect.

Definitely, but Michael desperately needed just a few more actual lines. Or some more 1 on 1 sneak ups like he did with Dwight.

i suspect michael was only there to appease the audience. the show is in no way about him any more.

sort of like when hitchcock started doing his lol cameos right at the start of films so the audience would stop looking for him and just enjoy the movie

yeah, we found out all we needed to know about the rest of his life from Pam.

He's so happy that he's got a family plan!

We watched the finale tonight. I'm so glad I jumped ship when I did.

when did you? I think I stopped watching after the 2009 season

Maybe it was the beginning of this season? When it was revealed that James Spader was gone and Andy was the new boss?

I've got to hand it to Gervais/Merchant: One season, two seasons, a Christmas special and OUT.

james spader was fumbled and catherine tate was just utterly wasted

I liked the finale, but I also didn't watch the retrospective until afterwards, which helped.

Brautentführung is a real tradition.

I liked the finale!
I didn't like the previous episode where it was revealed the baby was Dwight's - I'd rather it wasn't and Angela hadn't lied to him the whole time.

Amusing "Where Are They Know" character pix from NBC site.

geez, "Where Are They Now?"

So I eventually made it to the end. I really liked the final season and the elegiac tone they found throughout.
The restraint of Michael Scott's appearance in the finale was a bit surprising. Also I found a bit sad that they would do a 180 and move the Halperts to Austin, when the whole season seemed to emphasise that one could be happy in a 9 to 5 paper job, that love, friends and community were was it's all about.

Just screened Obvious Child--didn't know that Plop played the baby daddy.

that is possibly the least important connection anyone has ever made

weirdly that makes me more motivated to see it

John Krasinski now JACKED for a role, ie no longer hot.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/25/john-krasinski-criticizes-politicians-for-exploiting-13-hours-i-think-it-s-pretty-disgusting.html

Also, kinda dumb