showtime's Homeland =[a tolerable claire danes, mandy patinkin & that girl from firefly naked]

really loving this so far. like watching the background government machine taking place in the bourne movies.

yeah this is good. need to catch up with ep 4 but so far i'm really impressed. even if it is (ugh) Showtime.

naked what what now?

Morena Baccarin has shed her clothing a couple of times. Ya know, if you're into that sort of thing. Ahem.

It's quite good! Doing a good job of keeping each group of characters interesting.

Apparently it has been given a second season. I'm really interested to see what they're going to do with that.

I actually find that Danes has gotten more intolerable the older she's become, and so this role is perfectly suited to her newfound weird manic ferret energy. Mike needs to get naked though.

I'm gonna reiterate how Danes's face has become George Michael Bluth's face to me... but yeah this is pretty good!

Holy shit this show. I have no idea how they're going to sustain this for the rest of this season, much less a second.

drunk Claire Danes ranting about the Washington Wizards was bizarrely, immensely satisfying.

what i couldn't figure out was whether she was actually drunk in that scene or if she was just playing him

has to be playing him.That was a calculated move,not sure she intended to use the infidelity as a baseline in the poly though. She is just way too obsessed with getting this guy to have a lapse of judgment like that

you think? i dont know she's pretty self-destructive

the aspect of it that left things up in the air for me was that she told him what the polygraph was about. i just can't see how it helps her, since the intention would obviously be to blindside him with the question while he's hooked up to a polygraph. but as i write this it occurs to me that maybe she just wagered that he had figured it out and said that to gain his trust.

what do we think about whatever ol' grizzly is called having flunked the 'did you pass a razor' one time around; like wasn't there another hint last week that ~sewed seeds of doubt~ about him? or is that just a red herring.

i kinda feel like this week jumped the shark a little, but that the final 'have you ever cheated' line in the interrogation neutralised it a lil

i think its definitely going to steadily get more and more ridiculous

o_0

I've only watched three episode., Thought the pilot was terrific, but it's become increasingly risible. Does it get better, or should I quit whole I'm ahead?

If you think it's getting increasingly risible, then you should probably quit.

This week's episode was amazing.

I thought the opposite. First episode that utterly pushed the limits of character choices. I like it when characters are smarter than me, not soap-opera made-for-tv let's-make-this-interesting idiots.

And switching the show's Big Bad from a simmering, sinister genius to some off-screen nobody? ugh.

first half felt slow, but it really ramped up (all the stuff in the cabin was really tremendous). Also "off-screen nobody" is laughable when uh, he's supposed to be dead? And one of the main characters thinks he killed him, which could probably play a big role, narratively-speaking. Dragging on a "is he or isn't he?" storyline w/ Brody would've been really infuriating anyway, that tete-a-tete felt jolting and exciting.

Ideally I'd have liked them to drag it out a bit longer -- the kill reveal and then the "he's alive" reveal came too close for my taste. But who knows -- maybe there will be enough twists to keep things moving for the rest of the season.

Didn't the 'kill reveal' happen a few episodes ago? I was enjoying not knowing about Brodie, I kind of hope he did it all along.
By the way did they even have any *serious* damning evidence on the blonde girl?

This is progressing crazy fast. I kind of love that - most of what went down in this hour I sort of figured would be reserved for the finale. Which is still, like, 5 eps away.

Have persevered and enjoying this a lot more now!

this shit is cray

its really killing me that that roomful of infidels didnt get blowed up tho

there really wasn't any chance they would, though? like when they kept teasing that scene in the promos i was like yeah yeah how 'suspenseful'

claire danes is way more than tolerable!

I dunno, i found the "manic" scenes borderline unwatchable

morelike claire panes in my ass

I had some post-holiday downtime last week, during which sped through the first seasons of this & Game of Thrones (both of which, along w/ Enlightened, I'd flagged as the new serial dramas of '11 I should investigate). Both made for excellent marathon viewing, actually!

I'm mixed on the show, overall, though. The over-reliance on cliffhangers and twists was gimmicky & pulpy in a way that didn't really jive w/ the overall tone of the show. The performances of Damian Lewis & Mandy Patinkin were exceptional, though. I'd say the same for CD, but

I dunno, i found the "manic" scenes borderline unwatchable

is kinda otm

bonus points for having a 'sullen teenager' character that I didn't just want to sock in the jaw.

The over-reliance on cliffhangers and twists was gimmicky & pulpy in a way that didn't really jive w/ the overall tone of the show.

This. For all of its outer trappings of realism, its dependence on typical tv narrative conventions made the show feel kind of hollow in the end from a philosophical standpoint. Maybe that's the squishy librul in me talking. Still, couldn't stop watching.

man this fucking show. i enjoyed quite a bit even though yeah, over-reliance on cliffhangers and twists. but that last episode was just a huge shitshow. that entire scene with brody not exploding that bomb was just painfully terrible: first false alarm, smth's broken in my supercool exploding vest. imma repair it. and just when i'm about to do it for realz, secret service tells me my daughter's on the phone and it's an emergency. you know what else is an emergency fuckheads, an assassination attempt. i almost switched it off then but i thought i'd already watched 12 hours of this so the remaining 30 minutes couldn't be that bad. and yet. it ends with that fucking shock therapy and claire danes connecting the last dots bcz she remembers her good times with brody. fucking hell that was lame as shit.

also, there's one thng that's been bothering me during the entire series. why the fuck does everyone call brody by his last name, including his wife?

that's his name, don't were it out

haha nice

Just found out Isa is Arabic for Jesus.

I'm watching this - halfway through. Decent enough. Kinda ham-handed, heavily skewed toward melodrama (backstory of the affair w/ the boss; flashbacks to idyllic times), don't know why but I expected a little more nuance.

Danes' kinda icy - you can see her not so much acting as pushing the "manic/edgy" button from a deep interior; the scene where she showed up at her sister's house, ready to collapse under the weight of the world, really carried weight though.

Just found out Isa is Arabic for Jesus.

― Où sont le Lord Custos d'antan? (Leee), Sunday, April 8, 2012 4:18 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes it is but JUST FYI it's pronounced "ee-sa" not the crazy annoying way damian lewis pronounces on this damn show.

season 2 trailer

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_TPjZJCRc

awful music ... looks intense though. will watch.

take 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_TPjZJCRc

pumped

Wonder what convolutions they'll go through to keep the same roster of characters/actors. After the disappointing end of last season I'm sceptical, but sure I'll watch it.

awful music

lol Downton Abbey used a Scala/Kolacny Brothers rendition in their upcoming season trailer too.

I like this show fine but after they crushed the Emmys last night I think it's officially v v overrated

all the comments upthread about ham-handed, melodramatic, over-reliance on twists are otm but they won the award for writing

and Damian Lewis beat Cranston and Jon Hamm

I know over-calibrating like this and being all "it's a good show, but" is sort of boring commentary but elevating this up over Breaking Bad and Mad Men is kinda nuts imo.

I really like the show, but I agree.

Almost suited up for "Mad Men is about more than you're making it out to be" in response to this article but...ugh.

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/09/24/895061/homeland-emmys/

i'm kinda holding my breath for the second season, i feel like what they do with that will either validate the first season's virtues or further expose its flaws

yeah despite really liking the first season the kind of flaws that were throwing themselves up there puts me in the strange position of having absolutely no faith that the creators can come through on a second season. will be happy to be proven wrong though.

yeah it always felt like the odds were high that it could be a one season wonder -- in which case i'm fine with that season getting every possible reward, so long as diminishing returns don't get the same kind of accolades

melodrama and plot twists are central elements of the shows style, rather than something that detracts from it, also the emmys are dumb who cares

I like twists, they just went overboard w/ it in places (mainly the bunker episode) and I have a feeling it will only go farther in that direction as they try to top themselves

yeah exactly, they've painted themselves into a corner where they'll have to be very careful and continuing to raise the stakes without it getting ridiculous

the bunker ep was so crucial WHY DONT U SEE

it was what it was, i'm just saying it's hard to follow, is the kind of thing that is usually saved for a series finale rather than a first season finale. but that's really what i liked best about Homeland, i expected this slow moving plot of small revelations and instead every episode just sprinted right ahead of how far i expected it to go in advancing the action.

i am finding myself p excited for this, i think it is more a reflection of my susceptibility to trending topics on blogs than it is my affinity for homeland, though.

i expected this slow moving plot of small revelations and instead every episode just sprinted right ahead of how far i expected it to go in advancing the action.

I think the employment of hyper-escalating stakes is the method this show has used to pull the wool over people's eyes wrt its Greatness. It's a fine show on its own terms, but it's fairly pedestrian on a narrative level. Kinda like the Oz of espionage thrillers.

After sitting with the season premiere for a bit, I'm a little more "ehhh" than I was even after the letdown of last season's finale:

"Duh, accidentally revealed my dad's a Muslim!"
Reporter was concerned about a Congressman's office being bugged, but said Congressman didn't think twice before ransacking a CIA director's office (not to mention getting fingerprints everywhere?).
"Duh, almost forgot my notebook!"
Attempts at high dramatic tension when the events depicted are low-stakes on a narrative level (Claire Danes ain't gonna get caught and sent home, Damian Lewis ain't gonna get caught bustin' a CIA safe).

ehhh i thought claire danes on a mission was p good, at least the pay off.

"Duh, accidentally revealed my dad's a Muslim!"

yeah i think i was saying something like "come the fuck on" out loud at the screen during this scene

but yeah the CD scene at the end of the episode was good and not at all about the 'suspense' of whether she'd get away but about her taking stupid chances and getting a giddy thrill out of getting away

even though i ended kinda disappointed with the first season, still went ahead and watched the first episode. and i'm just gonna repeat what i said last time but ffs why does everyone call him by his last name, including his wife? this annoys me so much

you have a point about the wife but it's not at all uncommon for military personnel

at least damian lewis doesn't have to be "jonesy" again like in dreamcatcher

this show is better than mad men i don't care what any of y'all say

the brody searches in estes's safe scene was lame, but i liked the premiere otherwise

the "tolerable" in this title makes me so mad

FWIW, I'm pretty okay with the actors winning Emmys (and I think it's kind of a shame that Mandy Patinkin wasn't even nominated). The acting is definitely this show's strong suit.

yeah patinkin is definitely the best

mandy patinkin holla!

I think she was doing a plug for Mandy Patinkin brand challah.

Never watched an episode but approve of Mandy's facial hair.

this show is better than mad men i don't care what any of y'all say

― horseshoe, Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:32 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the brody searches in estes's safe scene was lame, but i liked the premiere otherwise

― horseshoe, Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:32 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the "tolerable" in this title makes me so mad

― horseshoe, Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:33 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

horseshoe otm x3
the more i think about this i can't work out what anyone could want out of it that it doesn't deliver. like some degree of ~spiralling narrative ridiculousness~ is inherent to its form (& to a degree i think deliberate? like i was just reading a CD interview where she was talking about researching CIA guys, hearing about the tactics actually employed, like manufacturing chance meetings by like crashing your car into a target's, &c).

i feel like any drift towards a kind of grizzly toby zeigler david axelrod hesh in the sopranos shaggy dog guy archetype is desirable in tv drama, & patinkin is just a super satisfying frowny guy (awesome hat) who you want to see burrowing his chin droopily into his weary hand all the time. just imagine an accompanying web extra, produced w/youtube, of patinkin at home, wearily sighing, looking overwhelmed but resigned to having to sort through a pile of laundered clothes. his character's single (/alone), now, right? maybe we will get some of this.

yes sarita choudhury left him! ;_; poor saul.

After her debut film Mississippi Masala became an art house hit, Sarita Choudhury acted as a Pakistani country-western singer in Wild West

waht i need to see this movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXEh93ZzUHU

i just googled this & was disappointed that it wasn't what i had expected, which is the rece movie w/queen latifah & dolly parton as singers in the south who are bridging whatever divides are beat-you-over-the-head-with-it meant to separate them.

oh man i have never liked naveen andrews for some reason, but i am definitely going to have to see this

the more i think about this i can't work out what anyone could want out of it that it doesn't deliver. like some degree of ~spiralling narrative ridiculousness~ is inherent to its form (& to a degree i think deliberate? like i was just reading a CD interview where she was talking about researching CIA guys, hearing about the tactics actually employed, like manufacturing chance meetings by like crashing your car into a target's, &c).

this is true and a good way of putting it -- the show's strengths are often the things misdiagnosed as weaknesses. not to say it's without weaknesses though.

i have never really got much of anything out of the patinkin character tbh, i feel like if it wasn't played by a 'name' actor nobody would ever talk about him or even notice he was there.

i wonder if it's a kind of variation on how impressed we are with method acting (/famous-actor-weight-gain) - like we feel like a guy with a beard must be a great actor because he is clearly apart from the more hollywoodish everyone-else on a show/in a film. i think in this case it's more that he's good!, but like maybe we bring some expectations of gravitas to the outlying characters like this. i feel like toby zeigler's a good reference point?, maybe not.

toby ziegler is a really good comparison.

richard schiff is great! i mean there's a lot of psychological stuff involved in how you invariably look at character actors vs. more photogenic screen actors sure. i just mean more that patinkin's character hasn't really had a lot to do, relative to his stature as an actor (or, probably his capabilities as an actor), so i wonder where enthusiasm for that character is really coming from. maybe i'm forgetting some great moments he had in season 1 though. he DEFINITELY hasn't had remotely as prominent or memorable a role as toby ziegler, that's for usre.

I think the thing is kind of pointedly that he hasn't had any big moments. He's playing an understated character, a grounded counterpoint to Hurricane Claire. Personally, I really appreciate well-acted but super low-key performances. There's a level of generosity on display that a lot of other actors (particularly name actors) probably wouldn't bring to the role.

Actors seem to get attention for showy and histrionic performances much more often than they do for centered and understated performances. Which is a shame, imo.

This show is pretty overrated and has the worst opening credits sequence in the history of television. I'll still watch the second season, it's enjoyable enough.

yeah opening credits are awful awful awful

it's pretty wild how PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FAVORITE show centers on an American turning against his country because of drone strikes killing innocents

Man, this show really excels at getting straight to story beats you'd expect to happen much further down the line.

Yeah that scene was great. Pretty ridic that Brody would be invited into a secret room to watch that shit though. Lol @ the Departed-style text message espionage.

Man, this show really excels at getting straight to story beats you'd expect to happen much further down the line.

actually I assumed you meant the assassination attempt, but the final surprise before the credits would qualify as one too

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

"yeah opening credits are awful awful awful"

No, lion mask is great!

yeah that's what i was saying itt a couple weeks ago, i love that they move the story forward so quickly when you expect this usual cable drama slow burn -- like i half expected the first season to end with Carrie and Brody coming face to face again in a big confrontation, instead they got there halfway through the season and set up so much more to happen. just kinda refreshing after Rubicon.

Rubicon was awes watch it

i...did? obviously? i liked it, too, i'm just saying i also like how this feels like a counterpoint to it.

or are you saying "watch it" like "you're on thin ice" i guess

that's the one.

the plot is total jingo pulp but both leads are great. lewis I always liked and danes was irritating at first but she's grown on me and the emaciated schizo panic makes for a fantastic action hero. like you never know what she's going to do, and neither does she.

this was a good ep. all the stuff w/the kid is really nicely done.

can i just

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mblaowBszN1qcax6bo1_r1_500.png

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mblaowBszN1qcax6bo1_r1_500.png

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mblaowBszN1qcax6bo1_r1_500.png

that face has been in my head all week, lol at them actually calling the episode "the smile"

also whyyyy can i not find a gif

zomg at the ending of this new one

obv there is no way the memory card does not get lost now, i am just worried something doesnt happen to saul tho

he might not even tell carrie about it!

http://i.imgur.com/LKHNw.gif

Still think there might be some big reveal around Saul - they left that whole thing about his lie detector test kind of dangling.

ahh many thanks

oh shit yeah i forgot about that

Breaking news: ex-cia operative found to be high on e while on a mission.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mblaowBszN1qcax6bo1_r1_500.png

Alllllright. I was halfway resolved to walk away from this show, but this episode finally showed that they're still willing to do some stakes raising so I'm happy. At least until they figure out some lame way to undo the wheels set in motion this week.

Also, Claire Danes has a really great smile that this show usually isn't the best showcase for. So yay for that moment.

she was also so clearly jazzed when she smacked the guy over the head with a brick, which was pretty awesome i'll grant.

o shit this episode.

ya that final reveal was great - totally end-of-season material for most shows but look, there it is in the second episode. And i had actual gut-wrenching fear that Saul might be killed off in that scene when their car was being attacked, which would have prob made me hate Carrie forever.

though it's super bs that they would actually a) let Brody watch a high-level operation like that and b) not confiscate every phone in the room beforehand.

manic smile at the end of the 1st ep was outstanding, so great

really curious for how they continue to develop danes' character this season, like i get that she had a major breakdown, i'm just curious at how she's to remain a central character now that she's so shaken & off her game. if her character arc is just "bipolar girl struggles for sanity" it's gonna be a pretty bad ride

b) not confiscate every phone in the room beforehand.

yeah i don't wanna be the person on the internet speculating about flaws in tv shows in relation to how i imagine national security operates BUT i feel like the pentagon probably catches communication going in & out, like airports do.

the ending of this was so dope. can someone remind me about the lie detector thing w/saul last season? he was about to do one & then didn't or something? i can't believe they'd flip him, & always assume if they're gonna do that it'll be with the guy in the suit who's the head of the cia or whatever.

i don't think it'll be that, because she's right! at some point this season she's going to find out that she was right, not crazy, and she's going to be so pissed. i can't wait.

xp to elmo

i love this fucking show

iirc saul flubbing the lie detector was about him being fucked up about mira leaving him during the hunt for tom walker, he later went back and aced the polygraph, right

something like that

this show goes for it.

can we have a sweepstakes, by the end of the season will brodie kill the grizzly beardo vet who says AWW MAAYNNNN, NOT BREWDIE everytime brodie pops up, y/n

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbya4oTSHn1qd1s6no2_250.gif

Think they are just trolling the animated gif community at this point.

Haaaaaa

The entire plot with the tailor was kinda ridiculous, and the scene with Brodie talking to his wife while he wrestled with the dude bordered on unintentional comedy, but the Brodie video plot made it worthwhile.

it was a pretty good ep. but there is always at least one scene that doesn't make any sense that they have to throw in to make the plot go

this time it was "no you can't go to the bathroom, we're only five minutes from the safe house, that's why I stopped for gas, because we are so close to our destination. now don't go anywhere while I leave you alone for a few minutes."

the rest of the show is good enough to look past that stuff though

the scene with Brodie talking to his wife while he wrestled with the dude bordered on unintentional comedy

otm

it was a baby, a baby.

Could I request that when you're talking about the next episode you could put e.g. 'Ep 3' before the first post about it?
The UK is one ep behind the US I think so I'd still like to keep up with the thread up until what I've seen, although I'll always be a week behind...

thread of missing brodie

great ep, great show

Sending Brody out for that task was beyond ridiculous.

yes it was. but that has never stopped the show's screenwriters

the brass balls on this show

i like that it moves so quickly frankly. I was reading an article last night that pointed out that this show satisfies primarily by NOT stretching things out and immediately sating your brain's desire for plot fulfillment. It's the anti-Rubicon.

It's like the Vampire Diaries of prestigious cable programming

i also have started really feeling sorry for brody frankly. which is a testament to this show's strength. I mean when he was stealing shit from este's office I was like "hurry up before he comes back!" when he had to snap that guys neck I was like 'oh no!'. Go, terrorist, go!

also wanted him to blow the fuck out of the VP. but that's just because VP is such a douche. They should have cast douchey VP /president from 24.

yeah once again i have to admire the way they're not pussyfooting around one bit in terms of moving things forward. none of that "let's drop this gamechanger and then milk 4 episodes or a whole season out of it before moving on to the next major development" rhythm that most other shows get you accustomed to these days.

also, renewed.

if these guys had done Lost they would have answered what the smoke monster was by the end of the pilot

yea they don't pussyfoot but still, the way they introduce drama and accelerate change is hilarious. like last week: not only do abu nazir's gang send their most interesting asset (brdy) to tie up loose ends, his tire also gets punctured at really what could only be the worst moment. and to make matters worse, this happens exactly on the night where his wife, with whom things were going along a bit better, is counting on him.
tbh i keep watching this show but srsly sometimes i'm laughing real hard at what's happening on screen

haha yeah, compared to this actual terrorism is probably positively tedious.

oh there's definitely some hilarity in the choices they make but i'm along for the ride as long as it's such a ride

I like how Claire Danes basically blew the operation for an opportunity to call her ex on his shit. "And I faked it every time, you asshole!"

I couldn't decide if we were supposed to think Carrie blew the operation with good reason (that Brody was really onto her) or was just being paranoid

Like, Brody did end their meeting abruptly, but I don't think he was onto her necessarily

For one thing if I had shock treatment I think I would be kinda sensitive/defensive about people bringing it up, that did not seem like "suspicious behavior" in the way Carrie thought it was? I dunno.

so far I like the new character on the CIA side

No, I don't think Brody was on to her. I think she wanted an opportunity to do exactly what she did, so she made a lame half-excuse and did it.

kinda makes sense

omg this show

not being totally clear whether Carrie's right or wrong or what reason she's really doing something for is a pretty consistent and usually deliberate theme of the show imo

also remember she went in thinking he was on the hook, but in fact we know that he had already contacted his handler and was told to feel her out. so she probably had a sense that he was more cagey than she expected, at a minimum. and her whole thing was "we don't have enough time, we just need to go all in." so there was a sense maybe that it was better to move on him than to play mind games with no payoff for the next two episodes weeks.

just started season one...wow this show is good

tbh i keep watching this show but srsly sometimes i'm laughing real hard at what's happening on screen

Me and my housemate were in hysterics when he was strangling the tailor while talking to Jess on the phone. Don't know if that was the intended reaction.

I still think it's very overrated. It's decent but doesn't come near the top echelon of current TV drama.

A lot of folks are praising its audacity, but Breaking Bad far outstrips it on that count (as well as in acting, writing and direction...)

this > breaking bad imho, sorry

I don't think it's good in terms of ~realness~ but it's fucking excellent TV. Like, the tailor episode was absolutely dumb and the scene in the forest was hilarious, but at the same time, I was all like... NOOOO BROOOODY WTF ARE YOU DOINGGGGGGG? AND WHY AM I EVEN ROOTING FOR YOU, YOU TERRORIST?!

this > breaking bad imho, sorry

thats a good one do u know any more joeks y/n

i mean i like breaking bad a lot, i just find the plotting in homeland more compelling albeit frenetic, much more than the moody indulgences of breaking bad but that's just my taste

I think Homeland is more qualitatively comparable to, like, Big Love or L O S T. Hopefully it's able to avoid the late-period quagmire those shows sank into.

I think what makes Homeland impressive is that it's smart and inventive within the confines of a genre that's often formulaic, whereas Breaking Bad carved out its own space from the beginning.

Which is to say, it's hard for me to compare them. I find that Homeland, with its fast pace and constant intrigue, is more addictive (I've watched most of the series within the last two weeks), but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

as pointed out upthread, i just think they pick great moments for unexpected plot developments. I mean, I legitimately have no idea how the show is going to proceed from this episode onwards.

Is Brody going to be a triple-agent? Are the Brody family going to be phased out eventually, The Wire-style? I read somewhere that the original plan was to tie up the Brody storyline last season and have every season with Carrie facing a new enemy, but I guess they liked Damien Lewis too much or it was too similar structurally to Dexter or something. I could still see that happening though, with Abu Nazir's defeat being the ultimate goal.

I also sort of liked how they managed to fit in Dana's cute teenage emo romance in this, which somehow didn't seem awkward at all in the middle of all the CIA espionage stuff. Can't imagine that's going to end well though. "My dad tried to kill your dad", etc.

"My dad tried to kill your dad", etc.

lol

damien lewis is the best thing about anything he's been in. would be sad to see him go.

otm have crushed on him since Band of Brothers. Will be impressed if they managed to keep him on somehow.

i feel bad for dana already

is wife going to get naked again?

i dunno dude that's why they call it a 'cliffhanger'

turning any TV thread into "but is it as good as Breaking Bad?" is like bringing up Radiohead on random ILM threads imo, check your sacred cows at the door and focus on the subject at hand

yeah. so it is good as The Wire?

i can't imagine Brody ever getting written out of the show, at this point he's too essential

i don't know if i've repped for Life on ilx before. it was a really fun procedural, with some great, odd bits that were just a collision of noir and pop-zen. Funny and either fake-deep or fake-real-deep or real-fake-deep or something at times. so of course it got cancelled. Lewis was perfect for the title role also. does inscrutable really well.

yeah. so it is good as The Wire?

― Mansplains Drifter (Gukbe), Wednesday, October 24, 2012 9:22 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

The Guardian thinks so

Claire Danes is glowering at me through a subway window with a look in her eyes that makes me want to confess to crimes I never committed. That face – the surly set jaw and stony scowl – is all over New York's subway walls right now. And below it, in big letters, the words "IT HITS HOME" and "9/30". This is the date that Homeland, the drama threatening to trump The Wire as the crowning show of this television "golden age", returns with a second series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwEqA_x5qF8

Really liked Life. Lost it's way when lead actress got pregnant irl and they had to sideline her. Lewis ending Roman was a p sweet ending tho. Lewis was great

This is the date that Homeland, the drama threatening to trump The Wire as the crowning show of this television "golden age", returns with a second series.

No. Really, just...no.

literally no one else thinks that. Not even this show's biggest fans

Was that Guardian piece written by Sam Wollaston? Because he is terrible.

Hermione Hobby

I still think it's very overrated. It's decent but doesn't come near the top echelon of current TV drama.

^^^^ While a lot of the plot points are total eye-rollers, the least convincing thing about the show to me is Brody as ascendant political star. I know you guys dig this guy's acting, I don't get it. It's implausible to me that anyone this devoid of charisma would be fast-tracked like that. The guy walks around like a serial killer. Wld be way more interesting if he demonstrated some political chops or was somehow more likeable/charming.

Yeah, i totally agree with that. He's sort of reptilian (although that's possibly an advantage in politics)

Well, it's not like his political career is going to pan out anyway.

Cos Romney and Ryan absolutely drip with charisma.

Well, this was about the only way they could keep everything moving indefinitely. I worry that it will spiral out with alias-like levels of 'spy' twists tho.

Cos Romney and Ryan absolutely drip with charisma.

Come on you know what I mean. However bad at it, they do what politicians must: smile, slap backs, kiss babies, make dad jokes etc.

kids hitting the person is just ugh.

i don't know if i've repped for Life on ilx before. it was a really fun procedural, with some great, odd bits that were just a collision of noir and pop-zen. Funny and either fake-deep or fake-real-deep or real-fake-deep or something at times. so of course it got cancelled. Lewis was perfect for the title role also. does inscrutable really well.

― s.clover

this is accurate, omits to mention excessive car-driving soundtrack scenes tho.

and sarah shahi, sigh.

serious lolz at the knife in hand bit. like how was that a good idea at all ? and his "every good cop needs a bad cop" reply to saul was just as hilarious & stupid.

heh, i can't say it wasn't over the top but it was a pretty effective plot point in the interrogation

Yeah I didn't mind that, it was dumb but fun. Weird point for the show though I guess - original plot now all fully wrapped up and finished with, and the direction they're going next can't help but be completely different to everything that's gone before. Hopeful it'll still hold up but it could easily sharkjump too.

The tricky part will be that the obvious drama relates to whether the CIA can trust Brody. And yet, so far, we've always been shown Brody's perspective - so we'll always know whether they can or not...

I hope they dispatch with Brody, CIA Super Hero pretty soon and just take up a new villain/storyline.

oh and can i just say that i knew shit was gonna go south for dana as soon as she said "let's have some fun" jesus that was kinda brutal

lol yeah Quinn could have made his point without punching a hole through Brody's hand. Just... punching him would probably have been enough.

didn't really mind though, because the following interrogation scenes between Carrie and Brody were amazing and probably just bagged them both a couple more Emmys.

I'm done with the show as of last week. Loved it! Awesome! But it's a slow show and I feel like I've been shown all that I'm interested in seeing.

That's probably the right answer and this time next year I expect I'll be kicking myself for not doing the same.

i kinda feel like it could be ~more interesting~, in some ways, w/o the veil of the increasingly ludicrous suspense thing, because what was so good about the interrogation scenes was trying to assess our broader inability to separate different sides of ourselves, to recognise ourselves, to play other people or make choices without playing ourselves. & so there's so much potential pathos in carrie's honesty & then so much potential for her being triumphantly guileful if she's using it strategically. ditto brodes, obviously. but idk if a thriller that hooked the post-24 crowd is gonna be satisfied at cruising into introspective 1970s cinema territory.

This is the first time I've ever seen Homeland described as "slow."

I can't tell if you're being serious or not but I just picture the director ripping out pages from the teleplay to make room for "2-minute long shot of Claire Danes' face at end of episode"

Oh I love Claire Danes' face, I love the way it makes an X

totally serious! & i would totally love this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTrR260rBI

tbh the last ep ended w/a through-the-doorway shot of danes silently refilling her glass, i don't think we are so far away from whole ten-minute-long between-ad-break segments tracking her expressions staring out of car windows, a long scene in which she attempts to buy groceries & is flustered, long, la rayon vert style overwhelmed-miscommunication sequences. her expressions are so great, & the convincing inextinguishable-hope vibe of the declarations she made to brodie were so heartbreaking. i just feel like if the rest of it rotates in us having to interrogate her capacity for delusion & self-delusion & deluding others, at the same time that we're thinking about brodie doing the same, then it would be into pretty rich cerebral thriller territory, if lamentably not quite in the chilly bergmanian drama zone

Oh no, I live for those shots! But it's a big investment, you know? My So-called Life did the exact same thing except with hilarious narration.

But yeah, if I run down the list of possible plot developments, there's nothing I can think of that will top what's already happened without being completely preposterous and unnecessary. I'm guessing that Dana or Jess will get kidnapped, maybe Jess or Mike will get killed, I'm guessing the boy will continue to look like a dog in every shot, I'm guessing that there'll be a lot of will he? or won't he? with Brody the CIA collaborator. My main hook w/this show was Carrie and her disorder and as far as I'm concerned they've covered an incredible breadth of character over the last seventeen hours, all the way from super-agent to sexy-weekender to suicide-attempt, I'm done! Loved it! Thanks! I'm gonna rewatch My So-called Life.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

Dead serious! There may be a lot of pensive, character-centric scenes, but the show barrels through plot points like nobodoy's business. Most showrunners would have paced the developments we've already gotten over 3 or 4 seasons.

yeah i mean i really need to see that. i don't think i am watching homeland so analytically, really; i was half-propelled by its unfurling intrigue for the first season & kinda just tuned in for the second on the strength of its pervasive blog buzz (it still surprises me how warmly it's afforded an image of being super thoughtful on terrorism & post-24 tactics; it's in some good territory but it seldom seems like really incisive on this kinda thing, for me, more just it pays its dues with an occasional line about racial profiling).

i feel like they changed up the kids this season, relegating the boy to the puppiest child available, all sweater-vest & saucer-eyes, & upgrading dana, who is awesome & who yeah i guess there has to be some narrative significance to on account of the fairly close tracking in this series. i'm just curious, now, how it all rearranges itself, because most of what you expect to be continue points between episodes - that brodie will still be frustratingly elusive, that evidence will be hard to find, that brodie will be in government - seems to change up, & i can't work out where everything will settle.

xp Hmm. Re: pacing, I don't have a lot to compare it to, I don't really follow any other current shows except Game of Thrones and Mad Men. I have no problem with the show at all at all, and calling it slow was not meant to be a criticism, just an observation. Twenty-five consecutive minutes with Brody and the tailor, for example? A lot of character dev is packed into every shot and it's wonderful, but I guess...

...I guess I'm just not interested in any characters in the show except Brody and Carrie. Saul is cool but the Mira stuff was a snooze. I don't care about Dana-Finn-Xander. I don't care about Jess-Mike. I don't care about David Estes' divorce. Nor about the guy who was assigned to watch Carrie who later says "hey, good job!" Nor the new guy who suspiciously seems to have no backstory. I feel they're setting up for some big reveal (Estes is a double-agent!) but nothing compels me. The moment Brody announced to his wife that he's CIA now felt like the moment in Twin Peaks when the Bob transubstantiated and an owl flew at the camera. I hope I'm eating my words in a few months!

Huh just had a thought and checked, no, Lesli Linka Glatter didn't also direct that Twin Peaks episode, though that would've been interesting

Hey, they did have a four-minute, dialogue-less suicide attempt sequence a couple of episodes ago, which shockingly was only the second most notable thing that happened that episode.

Homeland's showrunners and writers are old network hands, and a lot of what they've accomplished here is pretty much the result of years spent writing serialised drama. Basically, they know what kind of action works for TV.

i do share your concerns about whether they've explored too much of Brody and Carrie's emotional dimensions for it to remain exciting in the future, though.

re: old TV hands, it was great seeing Henry Bromell credited for the teleplay on "Q&A"; it felt v much akin to the best of Rubicon.

This episode got broadcast last night in the UK. Post-knifing interrogation scene was awful. Assumed Dana and too-young-to-drive boy would crash, but hit-and-run will give her extra-poignant empathy for dad's badness and "is what we do really who we are?" existential questions. Boy-child Brodie kid appears to have hit puberty and grown a full foot between last episode and this.

Awful? I meant Awesome. Post-knifing interrogation scene was awesome.

last night's episode was pretty anticlimactic. felt like a filler episode in the series.

yeah agreed although the stuff at the tailor shop toward the end was fairly shocking. before that went down I was thinking not much had happened in the episode.

yeah that was kind of upsetting actually. Guessing Quinn made it, not so sure about Danny. :/

but apart from that, this show needed a breather anyway, after the past two or three episodes.

Quinn is the main dude? My impression was he was the only survivor. We'll see I guess. What the hell was in that box?

I'm just assuming it has to be a dirty bomb or small nuke or something?

we need a uk thread and a us thread.

this one week time lapse is seriously fucking with me.

and spoiling the big reveals ..

i have avoided this thread so much, but after sundays uk airing i had to drop in, and now i feel like i have betrayed a friend as i know more than i should ..

that thing was prob a small nuke i'd guess yeah. once again i like how hilarious it is that just as quinn starts tapping at the fake wall elite commando team comes in and drops them. the time frame in which things happen on this show is a source of great fun to me. also it's a testament to the show's wtf-factor that an episode where several CIA/FBI operatives are killed by terrorist commando team, in gettysburg, to retrieve a nuke/dirty bomb is considered a slow episode, a breather.

pretty sure it was C4? at least that's what was used in the vest brody wore

well that would make sense... but would the terrorists really send in an elite team for "just" C4 ? also, come on there's no way the homeland screenwriters are missing out on a chance to introduce a nuke/dirty bomb to the story

also i been wondering -- since the episode where roya had brodie steal the target list from estes' office, she had ensured him he would be able to draw estes away, and it was galvez who interrupted & pulled estes' away, so i've had suspicions about galvez being a possible mole for a while. but now he's dead(?) so idk what to think.

also you don't need a coffin-sized lead-lined case for c4. You can carry c4 in your pocket without setting it off; you can hide that amount of c4 under your bed.

oh also can they please get rid of the whole mike and sidekick with crutches storyline ? it sucks and omg that dude jumps to conclusion so easily. mmm there's one bullet missing in the ammo box and walker was killed with a single bullet - boom! case solved ! didn't brody use the gun to shoot a deer, in front of mike, in a previous episode btw or am i misremembering ?

::backs cautiously away from Clay::

Ha, I think I have this information from watching... mythbusters.

i'm trying to imagine how mythbusters demonstrated this... did they put like 3kgs of c4 in a barrel and then had at it with a flamethrower and then admit with a disappointed look on their faces that this wasn't gonna explode that easily ?

didn't brody use the gun to shoot a deer

That's what I thought too. In fact I think he shot it twice. So the real mystery is where did he get the extra bullet? (Also I'm vaugue on this but I thought that Tom guy got shot with his own gun anyway)

Brody snatched Walker's gun away right before he shot him but Brody had his own gun too I think

oh also can they please get rid of the whole mike and sidekick with crutches storyline ? it sucks

otm

i'm trying to imagine how mythbusters demonstrated this... did they put like 3kgs of c4 in a barrel and then had at it with a flamethrower and then admit with a disappointed look on their faces that this wasn't gonna explode that easily ?

m/l this is exactly what happened.

this was the first week i didn't hate the Detective Mike storyline, just because it led to those scenes where it felt like Saul was bewildered that they were on the same TV show

so i've had suspicions about galvez being a possible mole for a while. but now he's dead(?) so idk what to think.

been sort of thinking this since late season 1, and this is the first time i've seen anybody else say it. really doubt it now

every time brody gets all indignant its like man try not being a terrorist next time u baby

btw this happened: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/homeland/1423664/

kinda lol to think ppl thought last week's ep was a breather before return to full on craziness... and then we get this episode.

also i guess galvez might still be a mole considering how many times they made sure to mention that he was not doing well in this ep. and quinn is hilarious, all "i'm checking myself out" and then getting naked in front of carrie and his lol reply to her surprise.

last week was nuts, terrorists assassinated that whole crew

why am I still watching this

a question i ask myself after every episode

btw this happened: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/homeland/1423664/

― Gukbe, Monday, November 12, 2012 2:20 AM (19 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha "oh no, she's having one of her jazz freakouts"

just gonna leave this here...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mde1urvjYO1qzsj1oo1_500.gif

snl parody was weaksauce imo - well, except for the "small mouth" bit

cut to mandy with his head in his hands listening to sexxin is utterly hilarious.

I just started watching this

omg so good! love it already, only 2 eps in

latest episode was really solid

look out caries got a wrench

that was awesome how they killed the vp and brody was so into it

i'm not really sure why & how pacemakers can be wirelessly accessed to kill the people using them but hey i'm all for creative deaths. question now is whether carrie's got more love for brody or the usa, will she rat him out ?

also, unless i missed something, wasn't brody's phone being monitored all the time by quinn & friends ? sure, they got abu nazir's team but they still don't have the main target and brody was their main link to nazir so it's pretty unfortunate that they stop surveillance just when abu nazir calls brody.

seemed like carrie already decided not to tell abt brody murking the vp otherwise she prob wouldve said something to saul on the phone

xp - <3 this show, but it really does reveal itself to be quite a house of cards plot-wise when you start to ask questions like that.

seems like itd be p easy to figure out brody did it w/some minimal investigating even if they werent monitoring his phone

the impt message to send out to saul was that abu nazir was hiding out in an abandoned factory (i'm hoping for a robocop style season finale) and maybe she felt trying to explain the pacemaker thing on the phone would have made her sound like (even more of) a crazy person. ok, yeah i guess she has sided with brody.
anyways yeah, questioning this show's plot points leads to a lot of eye rolling

feel like 'abu nazir is abt to assassinate the vice president right now' could be considered a p important message

yeah but vp was a dick so it's ok not to tell saul.

ha yeah i was kinda thinking everyones just whistling pretending they didnt see anything because that guys so awful

the impt message to send out to saul was that abu nazir was hiding out in an abandoned factory (i'm hoping for a robocop style season finale)

http://i1.cdnds.net/10/42/M/ustv_mido_hamada.jpg

thx, now I am enjoying the mental image of this dude ^ stumbling around drenched head-to-toe in toxic waste.

anyways yeah, questioning this show's plot points leads to a lot of eye rolling

yup last two episodes have been great even though there are tons of parts where I'm shouting "wha???"

like not telling Saul the VP's about to get killed, or Brody standing in a hotel room yelling "NAZIR!!!!!" at his phone when there are probably Secret Service minders right out in the hall

Is Estes trying to protect against some type of "Bush did 9/11" reveal where they have deeper involvement with Nazir somehow? Just bombing the madrassa with a drone strike doesn't seem like a big enough secret to go deep black-ops to prevent it coming out ...

feel like killing brody would kinda be the way to go even w/o that drone strike, i mean yr just gonna let this terrorist wander around america

i'm hoping for a robocop style season finale

lol otm

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/59abc778d2be574f01ce1fad55e187556227e6c7_m.gif

doesnt end well for crying carrie tho :(

for a sec i thought brody was going to spill all the beans to walden and then pacemaker geek's internet would cut out

p amazing how a dude doing secret stuff in a room before someone comes in never gets boring

they've probably done that every single episode and i've always been GET OUT BRODY GET OUT AHHH

for a sec i thought brody was going to spill all the beans to walden and then pacemaker geek's internet would cut out

haha yeah exactly. I was like "what if he lives??"

p amazing how a dude doing secret stuff in a room before someone comes in never gets boring

xp - yeah, I'm pretty much a total patsy for that stock gimmick myself.

i had a good laugh when brody started looking for a magnifying glass to make him all detective-y. if only walden had not had a magnifying glass in his office, he would have lived and brody would have gone on a revenge mission against nazir for killing carrie. i'm trying to imagine the convo between nazir and brody:
-giveme the number or i kill carrie
-i can't... i can't read the number it's too small
we hear a couple of shots fired

galvez is totally the mole, isnt he. shit. i mean COME ON he's out of the hospital and WHOOPS major fuckup on catching nazir

heh http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/12/a-homeland-conspiracy-theory.html

That theory seems... plausible? Damian Lewis' bug-eyed performance on the phone with Nazir did seem a little off. I've rarely, if ever, correctly predicted where this show is going, though, so I'm looking forward to wherever it leads, no matter how batshit.

probably one for "too much time on ilx" that i thought dude's name was darragh dhal right

http://www.vulture.com/2012/12/homelands-chris-is-asked-to-leave-the-room.html

lol

btw what was up w two handed hearts, not a real game

no you don't get it, it was a metaphor for how brody keeps breaking chris' heart

huge lols at damien lewis mega-acting

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/damienlewis_zps54ecc1ab.gif
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/damienlewis2_zpsb9b8b50d.gif
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/damienlewis3_zps33a37417.gif

http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/twmoat_dreamcatcher/acting.gif

huge lols at damien lewis mega-acting

― slam dunk

Haha yes, lots of unintentional hilarity this season.

like every time they're like "no carrie is unstable and will be not useful" and then she's right, _again_.

you're not much of a CIA agent if you're going to let the murder of the vice president slide without telling anybody, though

also I guess some of this stuff was meant to have happened off screen but didn't the CIA want to debrief Carrie at all after she was face to face with the world's #1 terrorist for hours?

didn't it raise eyebrows at the CIA that a known terrorist (whose previous plot was to kill the vice president) happened to be with the Vice President at the time he died?

Frankly, if they don't explain how Nasir got into the US I'll have to rejigger my expectations.

all of that said, dope episode (xp to myself)

Brody gets away with a lot, tbh.

I was glad they had Carrie fail with Roya

after they "oops" just left the room unattended so that a non-employee of the CIA could chat with a high-level terror suspect

they're not exactly running a tight ship over there apparently

i kept hoping theyd throw us a bone re brodys phone not being tapped during conspiracy to assassinate the vice president video conference, like nasir was using snapchat or something

he was using skype I think

Had some yucks at the literally crying over spilt milk scene. And by yucks I mean guffaws.

i feel like the idea of estes as a hawkish, powermad cia agent, extragovernmentally ordering hits through a sense of duty, is quietly the most interesting premise this show has had for a while

the hole in the plot is that anyone would care that they killed some kids going after the #1 terrorist

feel like they couldve come up w a better scandal than that

idk, i'm always thrown by this show getting so much praise for being ~thoughtful~ & an antidote to 24 & for casting doubt on the ethics of ends justfying means, &c, with the bones getting thrown in that direction - usually by the blunt embrace of profiling by staff - seeming sorta obligatory or one-note. but estes being indignant & like "renegade" would be really interesting i think. way more room for table-thumping you can't handle the truth theatrics.

the weirdest thing to me was how the vice president dying, even if most people didn't know he was murdered, seemed like not that big a deal.

no i agree that its an interesting turn, just that the incident itself couldve been a lil more compelling xp

its just cause everyone in the world hates the vp and was hoping he would die

yeah but if that happened to Dick Cheney it would still be, y'know, a big deal

rip, the rock of coal inside his chest malfunctioned

they def couldve had a scene where everyone just ran around going HOLY SHIT

yeah, or some sense of the media frenzy

i guess it was all just portrayed from inside their bubble and we didnt see anyones immediate reaction carrie excepted but im sure the whole cia would be running around going holy shit for days not bothering to interrogate saul or w/e

so brody has to die next week, right?

also, was the show renewed for a third season? will they have a massive game changer? speculations?

i hope brody dies but maybe sauls gonna warn carrie

of course the show is being renewed and Brody isn't going anywhere

yeah pretty sure they're not going to kill off reigning Emmy winner and co-star of the show who is also the only tether to half the cast.

don't think we'll be seeing much if any of jess next season, given the long lingering shot of her walking back to the house

the downside of the awesomeness of burning through your plot is that you've burned through your plot.

the upside of making no sense is they can just make up a new plot.

yeah you need firm walls to paint yourself into a corner

maybe carrie n brody will go on the run

really the best would be if carrie and brodie died and saul became the start

mandy patinkin, holla

after resigning from the cia he opens a flower shop but really its a secret spy consultancy

Would much rather watch a full season of Mandy Patinkin working deep cover from a flower shop than see another frame of Brodie or his storyline. Also his wife. And kids.

i like the daughters attitude, maybe she could be his assistant

haha everyone i watch the show with HATES dana

the daughter is the most otm character in the show, also she dresses well

dana reminds me of hillary clinton

only a matter of time before she wears a houndstooth pantsuit beside veepspawn tennant

I like Dana, and Baccarin is underappreciated, but I REALLY hope Brody dies next week.

i feel like it's gonna be saul

i appreciate baccarin nudge nudge

if they take saul from us i think im out

there are an excess of brodies on the show, i could part with at least one

anytime Mandy Patinkin is on a show there is at least a 50% chance he will peace out and they have to write his character out of the show

there are an excess of brodies on the show, i could part with at least one

ice cold but i have to agree, i nominate chris because i don't think he can get a storyline otherwise

what. he has karate lessons. how is that not a storyline.

would LOVE to see a whole episode of just chris brody hanging out w/mike. TRUTH.

you want to watch chris play kuma wars and eat cereals while mike's biding his time waiting for chris' mom ?

lol @ me

The idea that Brody/Carrie love has suddenly become an all-important bit of emotional motivation in these past few eps is pretty hilarious.

you know why Brody liked Abu Nazir so much? Cos he's the only person who ever used his first name

so tonights got to end w carrie becoming the new brodie right, i mean he flipped her, they are their own terrorist cell now

plus when saul tells her theyre gonna kill brodie that pushes her further

why did brodie's wife call him brodie all the time? that really annoyed me. she NEVER called him Nick.

ha i read an interview of the creator w reader submitted questions today and he totally dodged the one abt how they werent tracking brodies phone but they did say that in their research of military culture they found that this was a not uncommon practice

I read that same interview, it was a really terrible interview that I came away from having absolutely zero faith in these guys as showrunners

Wife calling Brody Brody seems like a high school nickname that stuck.

i read the part abt the name then the part abt the cell phone and went w/e f this

some people just everyone calls them their last name

Where's this interview?

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/your-homeland-questions-answered/

huh

cia go boom

It went big, but not in the way I was hoping

Maybe not the best timing for a mass-murder-on-US-soil ep

lol @ carrie just coming back like it's no thing that she disappeared for a day or two right after a bomb exploded in the cia. how is she gonna explain that? "i went for a quicky with alleged terrorist brody the bomb exploded but i believed him when he told me he didn't do it so i helped him get fake id, money and a route out of the country, but hey look, i'm back, i'm one of the good ones you know let's all forget what i just did". i liked saul telling her she was the smartest and dumbest person he knew, but that honour might just go to him if he just accepts her back into the fold.

there is a new york magazine recap of this ep that explores the possibility of carrie rehabilitating brodie's image, like as if at some point it might work out if somebody makes the distinction that although okay he previously had been a double agent & sure had made the suicide video & yeah synchronous with his ascendance had been plotting to kill & yeah i mean i guess had if you wanna slice it that way sorta killed the veep he totally didn't do it this time, & so could theoretically return gloriously to public life. that was him leaving the show while leaving open ~dramatic character return~ possibilities afaict.

carrie said she was gonna clear his name

and she's also probably the one person who has the least cred to clear his name. she knew he was a terrorist and has v strong feelings for him, she helped him flee the country and was conspicuously absent when the bomb exploded. you hardly get more biased on the topic of brody than carrie. also, i guess the showrunners are still going with the mole angle, cos brody's car was moved from its spot. such shoddy security though, letting in a car packed with explosives and then letting someone move that car right next to the hall.

ha yeah that was ridiculous, someone moved my car

brody was all "sweet, i'm gonna get some action with carrie in a cia office. also she just said she was ready to live with me but hey waitaminute, what's my car doing there?".
i don't know that saul would approve of his office being used for that purpose btw.

saul is dumping yr friend into the ocean we can totally swing an f in his office hey whats yr car doing there

in the opening credits, carrie says "i let it happen once, i won't let it happen again". she was actually talking about having sex in saul's office and she's the one who exploded brody's car to prevent her from making that same mistake again. that's why she let her herself be so easily convinced by brody, cos she knew who had actually planted that carbomb !

*_*

everything about that finale was f'in ridiculous but this bit was maybe #1 dumbest for me -- black ops hardman Quinn has miracle change of heart about killing Brody, threatens to murder head of CIA; head of CIA says "ok fine," calls off hit on Brody, lets Saul go free and promises to promote Carrie to a high position of responsibility

o_0 at this:
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/homeland_showrunner_addresses_season_2_criticism/

Especially this:
“Brody could have died in a number of ways. But we always come back to the fact that whenever those two characters are on screen with each other, the show elevates. And so the idea that we’re actually going to end his story for good is…one that we’re terrified of doing because it really means that we would really have to reinvent the show in a way that it would be a completely different show.”

GOOD, you idiot! This one's getting ridiculous.

agree that Carrie walking back in like it's no big deal is absurd. I thought the lightbulb was gonna go on over Saul's head as soon as he heard "Carrie and Brody both unaccounted for."

i felt like that did happen

i mean we have no idea what carries excuse or sauls reaction is gonna be

not defending the verisimilitude of this show btw

But we always come back to the fact that whenever those two characters are on screen with each other, the show elevates.

lol srs

all that shit w them in the cabin was so terrible, blowing up the cia def redeemed the ep tho, i appreciate that they continue to elevate

i felt like that did happen

maybe but when Saul was talkin to his wife later it sounded like he really thought Carrie was dead

I did like how they flipped Brody's martyr video to make it look like he was confessing to this new thing. that was kinda cool.

yeah brody got played

Haven't seen the finale. Hoping Boris and/or Natasha show up. Or (expanding into a recurring role in season 3) special agent A. Powers, on loan from MI6.

this was so so so dumb

Especially this:
“Brody could have died in a number of ways. But we always come back to the fact that whenever those two characters are on screen with each other, the show elevates. And so the idea that we’re actually going to end his story for good is…one that we’re terrified of doing because it really means that we would really have to reinvent the show in a way that it would be a completely different show.”

kill all yr darlings ffs

for all its faults, there is really absolutely no way this would ever be a more interesting (or even necessarily more plausible) show with Brody dead rather than alive, no idea why people think that option needs to be on the table.

because we hate him and want him to die

-- david estes

(rip)

this show is so f-ing dumb

yeah it's pretty hilarious

http://www.salespodder.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/saul-completes-carries-nazir-timeline-in-homelands-s01e11.jpg

no man u just dont get it

i'm still trying to pinpoint just when this show went off the deep end of absurdity. i mean it was always pretty ridiculous but jesus this season

i can't wait to see season 3 with carrie at the cia, everyone trying to track brody and she re-arranges everything on the colour-coded pinboard so that it forms a heart shape.

http://i.imgur.com/Z56Xh.jpg

haha did not know that pinboard already existed

The more I think about this finale and season the more annoyed I am at it

lol that ad pretty neatly distills everything dumb and clumsy about this show

because we hate him and want him to die

― lag∞n, Monday, December 17, 2012 10:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lolol

OTOH it has rekindled my interest in second-wave bebop. In recent months when confronted w/ some urgent or life-threatening problem I load up the car stereo with some Clifford Brown and everything comes into focus

I felt cheated by the finale. My own fault for wanting closure on a hit TV show, but the only reaction I had to the ending was, 'They got renewed for another season...so here we with the setup.'

tbh i thought i might be able to get on board w/ season 3 if it was just some sick spy movie shit like carrie and brodie on the run from saul and quinn but this... nahh

wheres f murray abraham at anyway

If F comes back, I'll come back on board, no questions asked.

i don't know what 'closure' is expected, honestly. yeah it's not a series finale so they're planting seeds for future stories, what's the problem?

everything about that finale was f'in ridiculous but this bit was maybe #1 dumbest for me -- black ops hardman Quinn has miracle change of heart about killing Brody, threatens to murder head of CIA; head of CIA says "ok fine," calls off hit on Brody, lets Saul go free and promises to promote Carrie to a high position of responsibility

Yeah, I agree this was pretty silly: out of character for Quinn, if nothing else.

There's some mild spoilers about Season 3 here:
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/homeland-producers-alex-gansa-and-howard-gordon-on-brodys-future-sauls-loyalties-and-more-from-season-2

the whole Quinn character seemed a little contrived all season, so the feeling that he was introduced just to set up that stupid sequence of events was a bummer

the quinn/dar adall stuff was totally undeveloped and just kinda left hanging and it was a bummer

dara dall. no clue what that guys name was. but i love old school spy stuff like that

ya i thought that was one of the more interesting parts of the season too. would watch dara dal/saul spin-off.

there's an interview with the actor who plays quinn where he talks about playing a black ops character:

One of the things I do know first-hand from somebody who works in this arena is that an anti-patriot or a terrorist is hated, like personally hated by someone in the kind of role that Peter Quinn finds himself in. They hate people who try to damage or destruct the safety of their country, everything that the Constitution stands for. They’re really very fierce about it. So there is an extreme there, which, I think, is possibly exacerbated by Brody. Brody has a very smug way of getting out of it, kind of saying, “Well, hey, at least it didn’t go off,” and it’s like, that’s not really the point. And that’s sort of annoying, and is therefore enraging.

so he ends up changing his mind after assessing Brody and Carrie's situation. But this aspect of the Quinn character wasn't portrayed well on the show at all, not until the very last minute.

the whole Quinn character seemed a little contrived all season, so the feeling that he was introduced just to set up that stupid sequence of events was a bummer

a little contrived? he is a set of four unrelated functions

1) he is some black ops dude
2) he has an ass he shows to people
3) he dies but doesn't really
4) he has a heart i guess

at first i couldnt tell if the brody/carrie romantic banter in the finale was awkward and forced b/c the actors have no chemistry and the writers dont know how to write banter, or if it was awkward and forced on purpose to convey that they're two crazy people who have invented a big romance out of thin air, but then carrie was like "i want to be with you" and it became clear that the writers really think their relationship 'works'

i think the 'relationship' ultimately does work, in terms of the show working, because they are both so deeply loony. whether that's intentional or not.

I felt like they had some p good chemistry, maybe before they started talking abt the fufutre like mature adults, this is perhaps just... life

Gordon said that the hit-and-run storyline involving Brody's daughter Dana and Walden's son Finn was "one of those where there was a deeper plan for it that morphed halfway through the season," though neither he nor Gansa could recall specific details of the original plan

ugh all that juggling potatoes cabin boy stuff, i was like, if this is supposed to be so awkward its impossible to watch its working

spinoff series where carrie and brodie flee the U.S. and end up on wacky adventures! uh oh, this week they're up against somali pirates! wonder how will they get out of this scrape! those nutty kids... what will they get up to next?? haha

seriously, carrie & brodie fleeing thru europe to lebanon while saul battles quinn & dara dall to track them down first, would be a great season

the show is called HOMELAND not ABROAD. it's like how they could only go outside the bar on Cheers every so often.

like that time they went to Seattle for a decade?

that show was called "Frasier's Living Room"

I felt like they had some p good chemistry, maybe before they started talking abt the fufutre like mature adults, this is perhaps just... life

yup after the finale my wife was like "it was only interesting TV when it was some irresponsible fling, you don't want to see Carrie and Brody organizing their silverware drawer"

seriously, carrie & brodie fleeing thru europe to lebanon while saul battles quinn & dara dall to track them down first, would be a great season

― max, Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:13 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya this is what I thought was gonna happen also I predicted it upthread so I was disappoint

I thought to myself, I hope someone remembers to otm me, but I will do it myself if nessisary

them talking about the future and pretending it was like a normal relationship given the circumstances just cements how nuts they both are!

does anyone else really believe that it was abu nazir's plan to bomb the cia all along, i mean that's a stretch even for carrie's big-picture paranoia and yet somehow brodie convinces her, because they were going to sex in saul's office and they've always been so honest with each other and oh god i don't even

I didn't, it makes sense that Al Qaeda would think "hey everyone from the CIA is all in one place" and come up with something but not that Nazir would think "I will hide for three days, get myself killed, and ... "

yeah theres no need for nazir to die for the plan to work

but walton needed to die for the plan to work, it's all very contingent on stuff that ~barely~ happened this season

well nazir I'm sure had other contingencies lined up cause he is a mastermind he masterminds stuff

naz is a rebel to america

I can't tell if ppl's posts are assuming this or not but they definitely implied that Saul had something to do with the bomb, right? The way they cut to him on the boat at some particular moment. Also now he is boss.

Was season 2 of this show also based on the Israeli series, or was it only season 1? Such a drop off in quality.

wow this show fell off a cliff. i can't believe they think any viewer wants 30 solid minutes of brody/carrie kissy time in the cabin.

i didnt really read the explosion as linked 2 saul, but yea, as bad as the last few eps of s.2 were i guess anythings possible

they kind of played that saul is involved in s1 too. lazy writing 101.

I can't tell if ppl's posts are assuming this or not but they definitely implied that Saul had something to do with the bomb, right? The way they cut to him on the boat at some particular moment. Also now he is boss.

― kinder, Sunday, 23 December 2012 18:37 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think they're just callously playing w this tbh, like why not let the camera linger to let people wonder. i thought having flirted with estes must be a double agent for a long ass time they resolved it pretty gracefully but saul is gonna be saul forever i think, or it would be too much of a lazy reveal - like what could make sense of it. i don't know really what was meant to be inferred by him seeming ~contemplative~ watching the burial.

predicting a freefall into 24-style ridiculousness in season 3

I would kind of welcome that. I was a bit pissed off that Carrie didn't end up going on the lam, I'd quite enjoy a season of her and Brodie evading CIA spooks.

Though that would likely involve more scenes of them having unconvincing sex than I'd be entirely comfortable with.

The main problem with this show is that there is zero onscreen chemistry between Danes and the Brody dude, any scene where they're together is like watching two different breeds of fish staring at each other in a tank.

Last episode was super lame but I can't deny I was happy when something finally blew up and I realised what they were doing. But they've long been in danger of doing a Lost and over-relying on bullshit wau moments that go nowhere, like the hit and run storyline.

they had chem when they were fucking in the parking lot early on, all gone by this year imo.

Was season 2 of this show also based on the Israeli series, or was it only season 1? Such a drop off in quality.

First half or so of S1 AFAIU

any scene where they're together is like watching two different breeds of fish staring at each other in a tank.

lol, a+

Last episode was super lame but I can't deny I was happy when something finally blew up and I realised what they were doing

idk. in between reading that NYer article about chemical warfare & obscurely remembering the end of some season of 24 where they ended the dramatic arc but provided some rollover suspense by having the president work a ropeline & then look at his hand to see it was burning, that he'd been a victim of some surreptitious chemical attack -- i feel like given that homeland is sort of lauded for & focused on the issues & machinations of security & contemporary conflict & is meant to be about the weird personal spheres that govern those things, reducing it all to HUGE_EXPLOSION.MOV was pretty weak. like do something thoughtful. do something that it's actually interesting to think about, that reflects the less dramatic grim nuance of policy (which is why i liked estes' motivation!, that it sorta vaguely maps onto actual issues of targeted killing & juristiction & authority, albeit fantasically/weirdly). it was the end of the season & you assume they're going to have to manufacture some rollover conflict because that's how tv works & they did it in the laziest i guess terrorists should blow something up? way possible

http://wayne.s.world.free.fr/Wayne/Images/wg_end.jpg

martin donovan!!!

all is forgiven

___________.._______
| .__________))______|
| | / / ||
| |/ / ||
| | / ||.-''.
| |/ |/ _ \
| | || `/,|
| | (\\`_.'
| | .-`--'.
| | /Y . . Y\
| | // | | \\
| | // | . | \\
| | ') | | (`
| | ||'||
| | || ||
| | || ||
| | || ||
| | / | | \
""""""""""|_`-' `-' |"""|
|"|"""""""\ \ '"|"|
| | \ \ | |
: : \ \ : : sk
. . `' . .

blahhhhhhhhhhhhh rip

So I stopped watching a little ways into season 2 (and I only very warily proceded that far after the bet hedging of the season 1 finale). Is it worth continuing?

i think s2 had very strong points but also moments of 24-esque overreach, and then s3 seemed to be repeating all the mistakes that 24 used to make so i bailed after a couple episodes. i feel think most critics have panned s3 but the show's ratings have never been higher, so.

there's a "big reveal" in s3 that worked well i thought. but it was otherwise hit or miss

I thought it was alright. And it had to end the way it did.

Don't really get the critical panning of season 3. First few episodes were dull/silly but it's been a massive improvement over the second season since then. I mean, it's still daft, but it always has been.

First half of the season = a slog, but since the mid-point reveal it's been good. Not fully invested in it, though, emotionally.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/02/homeland-is-the-most-bigoted-show-on-television/?hpid=z4

good first episodes. so glad they are done with Brody

Blimey this is still going.

it feels like a greatest hits of prior seasons so far

liked it on facebook just so i know who to avoid on tinder ;)

Series 4 is shaping up very nicely indeed. Danes in the latest episode was fantastic.

omg that last episode

so tense, so thrilling

WTF is going on

Binge-watching this right now. 3 eps to go. It's gotten good now they've done away with the Carrie & Brody rubbish and made it a classy 24.

lol

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/15/homeland-is-racist-artists-subversive-graffiti-tv-show

What a stupid thing to do.

Seems pretty awesome to me. I dunno. I only have basic cable.

Seems impressive to me as well based on the allegations I have read re the program. But I have always avoided the show

The fact that producers didn't bother to translate anything is way more damning than the graffiti itself

Ha, yeah, the fact that they could get away with it is kind of a validation in itself.

The story that they originally wanted pro-Assad graffiti is quite damning as well.

first episode of the new series was abysmal from quinn laying down his Hard Truths to carrie's petulant greenwaldian colleague

simon otm

reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX5OyGlLS-g

i signed up for 30 days of free streaming showtime to watch that documentary where they interview a bunch of former CIA bigwigs. it was pretty good and then i was like huh what else is on showtime. then i decided to watch this show. now i am on ep 10. it's still good and now i don't want to get rid of showtime :-/

it's also a pretty serious mindbender to listen to season 2 of serial and watch season 1 of this show at the same time. i am dreading the campaign for congress but i think i'll keep watching bc it's winter and there's nothing else to do.

does this show definitively start to suck at some point?

i have not read this thread btw

(in the event that the answer to my question is contained within)

this show becomes really really frustrating but I don't think it's ever actually sucked

i'm really enjoying it! i just saw the one where brody goes to carrie's home and asks her to keep her mouth shut about the weekend in the cabin. after he leaves and she starts crying, but she puts her arm over her eyes even though there's no one there to see her crying? classic. she does go pretty berserk sometimes but i like her character.

For some reason I stuck with this show. Seasons 4-5 are pretty consistent quality-wise imo, if you're still watching at this stage you know what you're getting .

I just watched whatever the latest season is. Season 5.
S3 was the low point, then they stopped dragging out and spoiling what made it good in the first place and just made it a solid 24/Spooks type affair. S4 was pretty gripping I seem to remember.

Oh in one of the episodes I just watched, Claire Danes says 'go. go now' yay!!

i'm in season 3 now and i understand what you mean by frustrating. constant in-n-out of 'nuthouse' + venezuelan highrise slum-squat + boring story about depressed teen/her troubled bf and her BORING BORING BORING mother she doesn't get along with

i'm kind of surprised by how extremely boring the mom character is (and mike too tbh, they are both so bland!)

i will also admit to being invested in the romantic storyline for a while

the depressed teen storyline reminded me of the Michael Douglas' daughter storyline from Traffic

Seasons 4 & 5, post Brody, were the best of the lot imo

Agreed!

Also, has anyone else seen Prisoners of War -- the Israeli show Homeland was based on?

Michael Douglas' daughter storyline from Traffic
totally, down to "severely bershon actress"although i think she wears it well
it's just not an interesting story to me

are they intentionally turning jessica into more of a bitch? are we just seeing a different side of her now that her high school boyfriend/husband/terrorist roommate is on the lam/dead? they made her so matronly once he started running for office. oh! and i noticed that claire danes has stopped using that weird product that makes your eyelashes grow. i kept wondering what was different about her face and i think it's the eyelashes going back to normal.

i am still watching it but i also find the new analyst pretty dull which basically makes everyone on the show dull except for carrie. i still have enjoyed watching it so far but if it stays like this eehh maybe not

thank you for introducing me to the word bershon

whatever

haha

idgi?

https://www.flickr.com/groups/bershon/

the internet is a big place

ok i have now watched it all
kinda annoyed at the "carrie is humanized/saved from her demons thanks to the miracle of reproduction" theme but other than that it was enjoyable enough.
felt relieved not to have to watch that poor kid who played brody jr grow up on camera anymore, no more bland mike-n-jess moments

new season! aww poor Quinn

liking it

well that got real dumb real fast

after a certain point it becomes clear that Carrie's main career asset is her complete lack of shame in asking for favors from people who owe her nothing, because she has screwed up massively and the results of her bad judgement are going to mostly affect other people, not her

and Saul's main deal is that he has a death wish and apparently surrounds himself with inattentive morons, to make him look like some kind of super-spy detective. With a massive death wish.

Quinn is just a poor schmuck who is too good for all of these assholes, but clearly hates himself.

Real Truth guy is so loathsome. And somehow reminiscent of Jay from Inbetweeners.

We need to catch up and finish this season. At this point it's like gross medicine we have to take in order to get this Dar Adal out of our throat

I stopped watching because I got bored and the drama seemed to revolve around MY DAUGHTER! and a convoluted story I couldn't follow. I really enjoyed the first few seasons but I don't really recognize this show anymore.

It was a weird, disjointed season, and the ending/President-Elect character seemed to be Saying Something, but it wasn't that interesting. Quinn storyline was quite affecting.

I only got on board with this after Quinn got sarin'ed and the Berlin train thing happened so I'm sure I'm missing a lot of history... but whats the deal with the ending - is the new Prez some kind of evil? When Dar said "theres something unamerican about her" was there more than he was letting on - shes a spy or something!?

god I hate the way this show makes you so flippin' worried about all the characters

also how many years did they spend setting up Dar to be the villain? like 4?

he's not a villain he's a patriot of the deep state trying to stop the unstable new president.

the last bit of the finale was .... uh, what?

It was also funny how in that postscript bit (the six weeks later part), she was all, "I'll get my kid back one of these days nbd"

I figured it was a setup for her to run for congress next season

the Homeland - Veep convergence is finally here

VEEPLAND

only on SHBOWTIME

it seemed to me, apart from the wtf arrests, like it's a setup for "let's get the gang back together and break our former friends out of jail" tour de force

uh, that should have read, considering the wtf arrests, not apart from

sure, but which parts of the gang aren't dead or in jail?

Carrie and Max

Just finished S2 and S3 in relatively quick succession and I'm still enjoying it. Admittedly I don't hold it to very high account, but that means there's been more than enough genuinely good parts for me to forgive or ignore the numerous failings.

Eager to see where it goes post-Brody and glad to see that the consensus here seems to be that S4+5 are worth watching.

Ooft, season 4 really goes for it! I'm about two-thirds of the way and have been blind-sided at least twice already.

Ha... and again! That episode 4.11 twist was maybe a step too far for me - I actually laughed more than anything.

need mod to remove ‘tolerable’ from thread title

also the ‘that girl naked’ part probably

it was great when they hired some graffiti artists to add visual authenticity to a Euro set and they wrote loads of derogatory stuff about them like "Homeland is watermelon" in Arabic. Although I'd have used much stronger terms of abuse than that tbh.

I didn't understand Dar Adal's explanations in the season 4 finale at all, but I guess this whole strand continues through season 5.

Didn't they write that Homeland was racist? https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/15/homeland-is-racist-artists-subversive-graffiti-tv-show

"The graffiti on the left says: ‘Freedom … now in 3D’. The one on the right says: ‘Homeland is watermelon’ (which is slang for not to be taken seriously)."

from yr link under the pic.

Ah, sorry, I only skim re-read the link before posting. Calling it racist is at least clear and direct criticism, if lacking in swear words.

I wonder if they though that writing 'Homeland =[a tolerable claire danes, mandy patinkin & that girl from firefly naked]' in Arabic was both two seasons too late and rather denigrating to Morena Baccarin.

I'm sure it's not a original idea, but I would very much watch a Peter Quinn offshoot series or origin film.

Finished season 6.

I preferred 4 & 5, but it was still passable and Rupert Friend was absolutely fantastic.

Finished season 7, which I wasn't keen on.

Assuming spoilers are ok at this point...

I really missed Quinn.

In season 8 they could mirror how things began with Brody by having Saul begin to suspect that Carrie has been turned by the Russians during the months she was held there apparently going crazy through lack of medication.

Apparently Yevgeney is going to back in S8, so Russia will still feature somehow.

Season 8? Fucking hell.

*going to be back

xpost Ha, had the exact same thought before I saw your post. This thing was sputtering halfway through the first season, what the shit.

Season 7 was no season 4 but I watched it.

Oleg from The Americans showing up probably the highlight. The episode with the hacker possibly the worst Homeland episode ever.

Glad I'm not the only one who persevered. I'm under no illusions as to its worth/quality, but it's been entertaining enough nonsense overall.

Yeah, that diversion with the hacker was particularly rubbish and annoyingly throwaway - I kept expecting for some twist to bring him back in later in the season, because it seemed utterly pointless otherwise.

Anyone watching this final series?

Not yet, but I will do at some point soon.

same here

Just finished it tonight. What a superb finale to one of the greatest TV shows ever. I'll miss it.

3 episodes in.

Wouldn't dream of posting spoilers here but hold onto your hat, you're in for a ride.

wow that was good

I bet I'm the last person to find out that Zabel is Claire Danes' real life husband!

Season 8 is now on UK Netflix. I'm going in...