the 2012 Democratic National Convention in Charlotte

Charlotte cops get expanded powers, including the random stopping and frisking of any person. Shit gonna fly.

The vote was met with shouts of "Shame!" from a packed council chamber, which prompted most of the council and Mayor Anthony Foxx to temporarily leave the dais. Protesters upset at the vote continued to shout chants, such as "Evict us, we multiply ... Occupy will never die," in the lobby of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Government Center. No arrests were reported. The city has said the changes protect the First Amendment, though the American Civil Liberties Union has said some of the measures go too far, including giving the police power to arrest people carrying backpacks, satchels or coolers if they believe the items are being used to carry weapons.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/01/24/2953565/police-powers-during-democratic.html

including giving the police power to arrest people carrying backpacks, satchels or coolers if they believe the items are being used to carry weapons

Very clever, when you realize that "weapons" include almost anything you might throw, so that a cooler full of soda cans == a cooler full of weapons. Also, the arrest hinges on a belief in a police officer's mind, not on anything verifiable, so this power can be based on whether the officer thinks you look like a delegate or a protester.

Heck. They'll probably be handing out free tote bags to delegates by the bushel.

btw no effing way does underraero not play for Occupy the Convention

I've rewinded like 3 times and I swear that someone keeps yelling "Nooooo" when Obama says "let's end insider trading in congress" (during this SOTU address). Maybe they're yelling "Ayyy-OOO" and I'm just hearing things

this doesn't begin til Labor Day, cuz you know, Olympics + attention span

this and the rnc and the G8 in chicago are my most anticipated events of the year by far

what month is G8?

I got it, May 19-20

all planz to be there

I've rewinded like 3 times and I swear that someone keeps yelling "Nooooo" when Obama says "let's end insider trading in congress" (during this SOTU address).

Apparently a lot of people heard it and it may have been more than one person yelling "Nooo" and "Booo". That's pretty messed up. It's like if Obama has said "let's end corporate fraud and embezzlement" and got booed. This should be more or a news story :(

damn, where am I gonna get a room?

At this point, Wilmington?

plenty of good hotels in Durham, 'bout a two/three hour drive or a very pleasant morning train ride (+ cheap too, the train rules)

I will investigate

http://www.coloringpages365.com/coloring/tent-coloring-pages-1.jpg

i'm lyin, don't know where people from here are staying, should discover this

yurts y'all

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FQA/53QK/F9053X5C/FQA53QKF9053X5C.MEDIUM.jpg

my lol college had a yurt & I took two classes that met in it. cosmic imo

otm

Occupy Charlotte members recently met with Occupy protesters from throughout North Carolina to prepare for the convention and are planning to provide housing, food and other support for those who come from out of state. An Occupy Durham member is now helping the legal team in a potential challenge as Charlotte officials continue to hold off allowing groups to apply for permits to protest at the convention.

Michael Zytkow, 25, an Occupy Charlotte member, said the May 9 protest at the Bank of America meeting could draw Occupy members from as far as Michigan and Washington State, as well as labor groups, others protesting the bank’s foreclosures and environmental groups focused on the bank’s financing of the coal industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/us/politics/occupy-movement-prepares-for-democratic-convention.html

Sweatshop-style labor for the DNC

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/24/they_want_to_run_us_to_death/

“Ultimately, though,” she added, “I mean, President Obama and the DNC can’t change the law here. It’s the voters that can do that … that’s really our focus right now with our members.”

ooooh

http://occupywallst.org/article/march-wall-st-south-mobilization-info/

http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/09/protest-march-at-dnc.html

The Corner has complaints:

I can’t speak for the delegates or ther foreign dignitaries, but many of the journalists I have spoken with here are appalled at the accommodations in Charlotte to which they were assigned by the DNC. National Review was assigned to two Knights Inn properties. Everyone who saw them fled immediately across state lines to an available Marriott in South Carolina rather than stay there. As one of our political correspondents reported:

The Knights Inn was the worst hotel I have ever seen, and I’ve stayed in many bad motels in my life. Two guys were dealing drugs in the room next to me, and a prostitute was working out of the parking lot. And this was in the early afternoon. The room itself was dirty, full of other people’s stuff, etc.

I have never requested a hotel change in 3 years at NR. This was the first time I felt absolutely compelled.

It’s not as if the DNC couldn’t have figured out something was wrong with the properties. TripAdvisor had these recent comments on one of the Knights Inn properties: “wouldn’t recommend it to my worst enemy,” “scared to death,” and “pimps and prostitutes at night.”

Nor was National Review singled out. Staff members from Politico and the Hill abandoned their assigned hotels, too. Staffers from the Hill found refuge in a cheap Microtel and considered it a comparative oasis.

Tucker Carlson, editor of The Daily Caller, told me that the Quality Inn his staff was assigned to was “the worst hotel you can imagine.” TripAdvisor carried these recent reviews: “barely a Bates Motel,” “scary area and parking lot,” and “the worst.”

Some of the scarcity of good hotels is due to Charlotte’s relatively small size. It is the least populous city to host a national convention since the GOP held theirs in New Orleans in 1988, and the Big Easy had lots of hotels because of its popularity with tourists.

But there really is no excuse for anyone, especially women, to be assigned to hotels that are beyond dingy and in some cases clearly unsafe.

"The Crack Hotels of the DNC"

Isn't the DNC hemorrhaging money right now, and for a long time prior to this convention? Sorry you have to stay at a flea hotel.

a friend of mine who is a Democratic fundraiser posted a picture of James Taylor playing at one of the stages at the convention and it literally took every fiber of my being not to write "man, Democrats really love them some James Taylor huh" on it in response (his Facebook page is tied pretty closely to his work; I will totally say this to his face next time I see him though)

Democrats should consider My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult imo.

I can't describe it, but one of the funniest bits Letterman did in one of his 90s monologues (where he supposedly goes "rogue" from the script) was about Bill and Hillary, sailing around Martha's Island with James Taylor serenading them from the bow.

oh man Knights Inn is so harsh

enjoy grade-A chump Cory Booker

the tribute to ted kennedy video (currently on at the convention and playing on all the cable channels) included a lengthy clip of romney debating kennedy during their senate contest, in which romney declares that he is pro choice and talks about his health care plan, kennedy smacks him down

nicely done dnc

how emblematic of the republican party that NRO doesn't believe the government should be spending money right now, except when it comes to putting them up at nice accommodations. (um, why aren't news orgs paying for their own hotel rooms to begin with???)

Working Mitt into the Kennedy tribute was pretty funny. Romulus Parsnip is upset:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/09/whine-mentum.php?ref=fpblg

That lady and her braces killed me.

Kathryn Jean Lopez ‏@kathrynlopez

Go head, Obama volunteers, knock on doors with enthusiasm for abortion, see how that goes #NARAL #2012DNC

tammy duckworth is cuet

how emblematic of the republican party that NRO doesn't believe the government should be spending money right now, except when it comes to putting them up at nice accommodations

Er, the Democratic party isn't the government, to be 100% fair!

Great speech

Man I LOVE Tammy Duckworth. Good person afaik. I also saw my congressional rep in the audience smiling. She was the keynote speaker at my school's 2012 graduation ceremony.

Tammy Duckworth is rad as hell.

oh rahm emanuel, cool

isn't he at the wrong convention

mitt romney would fire the reindeer and outsource the elves lmao

btw totally recommend watching this shit on PBS where they actually show the speeches

rahm is kinda a ninny

Won't somebody feed Al Sharpton?

skinny sharpton is no cool

Whos on the speaking sched tonight?

the incumbent advantage is IMHO mostly comprised of the opportunity to chant FOUR MORE YEARS thats some exiting shit

michele later xp

Kal Penn was a good call

PBS just interviewed Brian Schweitzer--he's funny! Called Ross Perot "big ears." (Not the only one, I know.)

maryland gov martin o'malley is speaking at 10 -- he was the other person whose rehearsal i ran the teleprompter for last week after mccain's, interested to see how his speech goes over

michelles brother looks just like her

except really tall and male

obamas sister doesn't look like him

michelle is pretty tall, right? i mean not as tall obviously

she is its true

O'Malley caused all sorts of intra-party panic when he said "No, we're not better off today than four years ago" on one of the panel shows.

yeah that was odd, kind of goes against the gist of the convention speech that had been in the works since well before that

no sarcasm intended: I love Lily Ledbetter's flat parody of Foghorn Leghorn.

I know Lilly Ledbetter is an icon and a hero, so I'm not making fun of her. But she does remind me of that one desk clerk in No Country for Old Men: "Did...you..not...hear...me?"

(Ha--we're on the same page, Alfred.)

man I know im biased but this is waay better than the gop covention

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDipSqk9M3o

screw the convention i'm watching Richard Schiff and Hannity going at it

Ahh, that's stupid--thought it was just the clip.

dems seem more interested in making actual arguments not based on willful misreading single lines of speeches

Deval Patrick just addressed everyone's complaint about Democrats: spinelessness.

er not a good look to disparage Super PACs.

fuk a superpac

man patrick bringing it

DEVAL PATRICK FOR POPE

otm

fuk a superpac

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, September 4, 2012

the Dems have been for the last six months, thankfully

I don't know if I've been prouder to be a democrat than I am RIGHT NOW, this is just the first night and it's awesome

stop showing jon liguzama tv thats not a real celebrity

more energy in that speech than the whole GOP convention combined

O'Malley embodying the profound influence of Al Gore's "Up/Down" construction from '92. (Yes, kidding.)

patrick KILLED

ok this omalley dude is coming off like a doofus.

Lol David Brooks doesn't get it literally questioned why Patrick didn't talk any the national debt

They couldn't have Michelle and Patrick back-to-back in prime time because they needed someone from Maryland to break that up.

I blame ship for this speech

hes moving this tv show back not forward

o'malley is definitely not used to televised speeches, feel like he knows how to speak to a big room well but it doesn't come across as well on tv

xpost lol

tbf they actually listened to my opinion on changing a couple lines that were MUCH clunkier in previous draft

are they seriously using KARMIN as transitional music

ha wow thats nuts xp

That's a vote loser right there.

xp

Ugh, and now BEP

damn Donna Brazile needs to go away

(as someone who doesn't getting vote in this, ll I can do s scoff at their song choices)

tough but fair

"as a young American?"
affected by 9/11?

this guy doesn't exactly look like part of the avril lavigne generation.

Clinton speech preview

He pointed to the giant national debt clock that Republicans had at their convention, saying, "You see that debt clock?"

"They built it!" shouted a man in the audience.

"Yeah, they built it. They built it"

shit will I am is literally right there

(no hologram)

¡VIVA! CASTRO & OBAMA signs in the crowd outta give dickehads plenty to work with

oh no

no holo

I want to like Julián Castro but I don't. Oh well.

no Castro no problem

lol this mayor trying really hard to break himself of the habit of flashing his 50 watt smile at every turn

He is so excited about this speech

what do we think of this guy? His rhythms are weird: suppressing his squeaky overeagerness, kinda like Poppy Bush in '88.

"Why didn't I think of that" was a good line. But yes--big teeth, big teeth.

BOOM

ZINGER

hes going to hi5 his brother like 50 times back stage *nailed it*

Doesn't seem genuinely excited though. His...lack of humility (?) is off-putting even though I agree with everything he's saying.

yep

hes a total teachers pet

hes still a better speaker than romney tho

this dude will be ok. give him ~5 years

DanFosterNRO Effective rhetorical trick from Castro. You know which other Castro has some effective rhetorical tricks. . . .

^^THERE IT IS

I think this is pretty good. if he's too polished it's phony.. attacking Romney without seeming angry about it is a positive. I think it's OK to be a little too enthusiastic since in this context he's really young. so if it seems like he's about to go offstage and spike a football/high five everybody it doesn't bother me

not watching -- what was the zinger?

mayor Castro is the shit

San Antonio por vida

everyone h8s yr mayor sry dude

Jimmy Fallon will play Castro in a skit soon.

Ugh get this dude off the stage

DanFosterNRO Effective rhetorical trick from Castro. You know which other Castro has some effective rhetorical tricks. . . .
--a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

haaaaah

sry haters, he's a good mayor

I bet he is! He is just a bad public speaker

you know the undecideds who you can't even imagine exist but do? people who are waiting to see speakers who inspire them before they decide which party to vote for? I imagine Castro as going over awesome with those undecideds.

His cadence is just honestly very not ready for prime time

were in it for the speeches not the governance

He is better than the poor sap with the forward not back chant

I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the people of San Antonio, and I hope I've passed the audition.

I thought he did really really well. that's a huge amount of pressure to give that speech on a national stage when hardly anyone in the audience knows who you are. It seemed like a good thing to not be 100% polished.

"Ha ha ha...ha ha ha...I don't get it."

Mordy - he ticked off everything Romney's against (choice, marriage equality, infrastructure, equal pay, education investment, etc) with audience responding "NO!"; got to "healthcare for everyone" and hesitated a beat, made joek about Romneycare. it was good.

To be fair, the MA gov was a hard act for all of these peeps to follow.

I'm fine with Castro just being a future congressman. I think he doesn't have the political talent to go beyond that. If he did he wouldn't have lost out to Phil Hardberger in 06.

He's an overly polished public speaker. He thinks he's doing it well. Que dios le bendiga!

the zing was 'why didnt I think of that' when Romney suggested borrowing money from yr parents to start a business xp

michelle cheating on those push ups

haha I love that they got the Michelle Obama Dougie clip into that video

Is Michelle on? I'm not watching now so you have to tell me how it is

I'm fine with Castro just being a future congressman. I think he doesn't have the political talent to go beyond that. If he did he wouldn't have lost out to Phil Hardberger in 06.

― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

uh he lost to hardberger bc was 12. he won handily the last two elections and is a lot more popular than hardberger was

No but the Muzak version of Dont Stop Beliein' is.

Shades of Admiral Stockdale!

*Believin'

uh he lost to hardberger bc was 12. he won handily the last two elections and is a lot more popular than hardberger was

― Farrah Abraham had many songs/ many songs had Farrah Abraham (m bison), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:35 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hardberger left office with an approval rating of 86 percent

the zing was 'why didnt I think of that' when Romney suggested borrowing money from yr parents to start a business xp

o yeah that too

wut r u guys even talkin abt wtf a harbingered

man that roar knocked down my bedroom CD tower!

ice cr?m!

spoilers, matt

JonahNRO This is the best part of the convention and the best part of Obama -- he's a decent and good dad, and that's a good thing. 5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

lol horndog:

DanFosterNRO FLOTUS is a good looking woman, I'll say it. 41 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

That was who I thought it was, right?

ice cr?m!
--Matt Armstrong

ho lol didn't realize I was usin my old login havent touched this ipod in a while

lmao Obama: early dumpster diver

dumpster diver / furniture enthusiast

jonah is such a RINO

she's killing it

for real

wasn't expecting this, and doing it without big rhetorical flourishes

wasn't all the punditry about how she'd focus on the "good dad" stuff and not mention y'know policy

just got into the hotel and got the room tv on. First Lady is fuckin' bringing it. Deep intertwining strong emotional narratives, values, and policy.

Every effin' Dem/Ind/Green/etc pol needs to watch this again and again.

Also, the flatscreen in the hotel breakfast area was off, Thank the Maker.

Note who is being shown in the audience by the directors.

Michelle is the best

She's great. Love the shit about college too, selfishly.

Eliza Skinner ‏@elizaskinner
Let's all marry Michelle Obama.

7:25 AM - 5 Sep 12 · Details

huh I watched so much of the RNC and have like zero desire to watch any of the DNC

of course I also had shit to do tonight

but then again I had shit to do last week and I did that in front of the US Open on one TV and the RNC on another

dunno, guess I don't really feel like hearing shit I already know tonight

i'm watching now.

is it too late for an Obama/Obama ticket?

future prez michelle obama?

wtf bbc news i was watching that.

that's unconstitutional, they're from the same state

xps

(ha, i didn't get an xp on the 'obama/obama ticket' post.)

RichLowry I didnt watch as much of repub convention on TV. Were as many GOP delegates constantly on the verge of tears?

Obama '16

Most effective FL since Eleanor?

HA, and the Onion is there:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/good-evening-its-an-honor-to-be-used-as-a-politica,29437

Good Evening, It's An Honor To Be Used As A Political Prop By My Husband's Campaign

BY MICHELLE OBAMA
FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES

SEPTEMBER 4, 2012 | ISSUE 48•36 | MORE COMMENTARY

thx for posting corner tweets alfred

it depends what you mean by effective

Nous verons

hillary surely more influential on presidential office?

verrons

nancy reagan got to run the joint

Let's not forget the fabulous Mrs Wilson

I thought it was a solid triple

Nancy Reagan wore Galeano gowns and gave the order so she wins.

Oh shit David Brooks is on the PBS panel, time to switch back to CSPAN until they start taking viewer calls.

Fuck you Shields

robertcostaNRO a friend from back home texts me: cheers went up at the Chilis he's at in bucks county, pa for michelle

For those fleeing David Brooks, he thought the speech's genius was its narrative. Continue fleeing.

fox news talking it up

I thought it was a solid triple
--Ogni tanto mi piace un'occhiata del Tevere (Michael White)

check the scoreboard, that shit was a grandslam

jenna lee nardella is a babe, why are all the channels putting her speech in the background of pundits get outta the way you guys

It was a barnburner, but slow burner crescendo

wait nvm not anymore xp

whoa yeah

xopsts

hahah no? i only caught a glimpse

lol jowly old white PBS dude lamented Michelle and no speaker mentioning Bowles-Simpson all night

haha 'preach michelle' is trending

ha I love mark shields xp

PBS coverage is better but the msnbc comentators r more with it

Why in the world would you mention Bowles-Simpson in a convention speech

(c'est bien "on verra" dans ce cas-là?)

KatrinaTrinko Michelle Obama and Condi Rice may be best political female speakers out there right now.

HA local pbs affliate cut from the end of coverage to an in-progress ep of "Yes, Minister."

Meanwhile, the fair and balanced coverage on that other channel is Rove taking over the conversation with negative things to say..

and, scanning upward, CNN now interviewing Will.i.am, naturally

I always say on verra

Saw him on top gear yesterday

chuck Todd is a goober supreme

oooh, Cspan2 showing a talk by Neil DeGrasse Tyson

Chris Mathews so excitable looking kinda bashful over calling castros one of the best speeches ever

whoa yeah Skinny Sharpton is freaky

and HA the other channel is talking to Krauthammer

also

http://oldpatrick.wordpress.com/tag/nous-verrons/

Sherlock Holmes says, “Nous verrons, you work your own method, and I shall work mine. I shall be busy this afternoon, and shall probably return to London by the evening train,” in ‘The Boscombe Valley Mystery.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8449/7934362048_b52663d3f8.jpg

damn when did sasha get so grown-up?

other channel's gotta give their audience what they want: same familiar pundits reassuring them that Democrats are bad, and even if they give a good speech, you shouldn't listen to it

We really only get to see about 6 or 7 photos of them a year. xp

obamas been talking abt how tall she is for like a year where have u guys been

Not Melia, Sasha. She's a full-fleged tween now!

Also, it's cool that Obama's chillout room is modeled after a Holiday Inn lobby from 1975.

O ha xp my bad

I think they're in a fair number of photos, the WH releases a lot on their Flickr feed from events there, but those aren't really connected to big news stories so you wouldn't see them if you didn't go looking

Hey when did Michael Steele shave his mustache?!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9uv8qPtwU1qz80pso1_500.png

lol

xp oh right, Flickr! I forget it exists sometimes.

ted strickland interviewed on msnbc just straight up called romney a racist liar : O

guess he took Patricks advice to grow a spine to heart, good for him

I totally enjoy looking through the WH Flickr photos, also NY Mag's Michelle Obama lookbook
some of the candids at WH events/campaign trail are hilarious

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/7743235690/in/photostream

why is ezra klein wearing jeans w a jacket n tie, this guy has been disappointing me so much recently

I assume he is always wearing exactly that, at all times, 7 days a week

ha maddow just asked Chris Mathews abt Michelle running for office and he got this look of wonder on his face

why is ezra klein wearing jeans w a jacket n tie, this guy has been disappointing me so much recently

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:51 PM (Yesterday)

get w/ the times gramps

a star is born:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=t5w4yImGgiM

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/9/4/22/anigif_enhanced-buzz-21996-1346812966-1.gif

kevin im just gonna explain this to you because i know youre in college and prob dont understand this stuff, im not complaining abt pairing a jacket w/jeans or w/e, but guys upper body was literally dressed in a complete suit, grey suit jacket starched white shirt conservative tie, and then his legs had some homely ass distressed boot cut jeans on, shits never gonna look right reguarless its the year 3000

its my sincere hope that in a couple years some night when youre thinking abt looking a lil grown up but dont want to fully commit youll think back to this post and at least take the fn tie off, because u look like a total tool

ahaha oh no http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/09/cory-bookers-speech-to-democratic-national-convention.html

http://i.imgur.com/GCAUd.png

gj

xpost - tbh I think that look is pretty common if your job is to be on camera & sitting at a desk so it never shows your trousers (or shouldn't, anyway) - lots of people on air wearing sneakers, jeans to be a little more comfortable because you don't see them

he had to get up and point at a screen!

fuck it ezra, go full brando

also theres no reason why suit pants shouldnt be comfortable

i mean shit youre on tv get that shit made special to the contours of yr sexy bod

Alex Pareene ‏@pareene
Haha why the hell is Christine Quinn punditing on MSNBC

9:20 PM - 4 Sep 12 · Details

thought michelle made just about the strongest possible argument for the president's reelection

I used to wear a jacket with a Givenchy tie and and a suave grey vest over black jeans to club shows in the mid-eighties

people would offer to give me their demos or give me impromptu acapellas, no lie

did they offer to give you anything else, knowwatimsayin?

I do not knowwatyrsayin.

c1g@rettes

thought michelle made just about the strongest possible argument for the president's reelection

She promised an Al Green covers album?

Looking forward to Clinton tonight. If you look at that rough blueprint linked upthread, he'll have lots of stuff that will make the place go nuts. He has some real incentive to go all out; his wife's political fortunes aside, if Obama does get reelected, I'm sure Clinton will be happy to take 97% of the credit if his speech tonight goes over well. He's at 66% approval right now, which is probably even higher than before his problems in 2008. I wonder if that's about half genuine, half being in the right place at the right time--a total fluke of startup.com history.

anybody got a screencap of ezra??

he looked pretty terrible

ya I can imagine

suit trousers are more comfortable than jeans fyi

his segment may be up on msnbc's website

Not looking forward to the reactionary/contrarian responses to Michelle's speech pop up on FB from folks who never post in months and who really ought to know better.

Caught the first one this morning with one dude talking about her "fake stutter", which must have obviously been fake b/c the words were on the prompter in front of her.

Ah well.

well, even the FOX guys praised her crispness and warmth (while lamenting her "emphasis" on the "superiority" of government jobs or some such twaddle).

I had to give my cats a bath, but I don't feel like I missed anything.

Michelle Obama is such a strong speaker in a number of ways, which is interesting compared to Castro, who also had a lot of enthusiasm but lacked her inner spark. What is that? It's not charisma. Is it integrity?

"I had to give my cats a bath, but I don't feel like I missed anything."

watch michelle's speech. its worth watching. she's reallly good at it.

If you also define integrity as an "adamantine belief in one's own convictions, no matter their truth," yeah. FDR and Reagan were notorious liars and fabulous speakers.

deval had the crowd in palm of hand until he threw on the brakes to tell boring crumbling school anecdote. so close!

I thought Castro gave a fantastic speech--y'all are crazy, he had sparks everywhere. he was inspiring and funny and smart, what more do you need?

I'd say Bubba has a tough act to follow – more than he expected.

Yknow, I've been wondering what integrity means in the 21st c for a while, but that was not what I had in mind. That sound like delusion.

ugh sounds

Michelle Obama is such a strong speaker in a number of ways, which is interesting compared to Castro, who also had a lot of enthusiasm but lacked her inner spark. What is that? It's not charisma. Is it integrity?

― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:45 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its just meaning the words youre saying, not that he didnt believe the speech, but youve got to embody what youre saying at each moment along the way, you could see that he was rushing and relying on staged gestures for emphasis, he wasnt being in the moment he was just reading his speech and came off somewhat phony as a result

i mean it was a fine speech but not in the same class as michelles who just radiated genuineness

Unless I misinterpreted you, I was defining integrity as a virtue of great public speaking. For me I have to not only believe the speaker's own belief in the truth of his words but experience (and in some cases squelch) a willingness to be persuaded.

I think the difference was just experience. Michelle's speech was refreshing in that it didn't rely on any repeating crowd-pleasing catch-phrases.

michelle convinced me to join her army of compassionate hugging people who love old poor people! gonna hug the elderly all day today!

I'll start collecting yr bail money

I was defining integrity in the sense of a general personal characteristic - that she seemed genuine, passionate, and unified inside her brain*

*as opposed to Castro, who seemed like he might be a rather different person at home than he is on the stage. Not better or worse, just different. To me that is a failure to integrate selves, and a person like Castro would not radiate integrity like Michelle Obama does.

I hope it's just experience - I can't wait to talk about this with my speech class tomorrow.

I'd say Bubba has a tough act to follow – more than he expected.

ha man did you see the preview clip of him warming the speech up? The First Lady was incredible & Deval was just so good that even M.O.'s speech couldn't match it to me, but Bill Clinton is the absolute master at this. Dr. Morbius, Alfred & Underrated Aerosmith Bootlegs I Have Loved will be phoning in donations to the DNC by the time he gets done.

After this everyone should go back and listen to Romney put on his Bill Clinton voice in his acceptance speech and laugh and laugh and laugh.

the contrast in quality between the two conventions so far is striking

I used to wear a jacket with a Givenchy tie and and a suave grey vest over black jeans to club shows in the mid-eighties

people would offer to give me their demos or give me impromptu acapellas, no lie

― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:48 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i like this story and it sounds like you were rocking more of a fun look, ezra was just wearing a suit then he took off the pants and put on jeans, and they were ugly jeans

Dr. Morbius, Alfred & Underrated Aerosmith Bootlegs I Have Loved will be phoning in donations to the DNC by the time he gets done.

mortgate payment due next week :(

also his tie was crooked and slightly loose

checking in w/this lil dood http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/09/05/meanwhile-back-at-nepotism-junction

man Ezra Klein has failed every time he thought he was ready for prime time.

i like this story and it sounds like you were rocking more of a fun look, ezra was just wearing a suit then he took off the pants and put on jeans, and they were ugly jeans

ha yes this is right. my vest was from a busboy uniform and looked cool with a nice dress shirt from the Goodwill. The tie I don't know where I got it but I wore that thing down to threads, RIP Givenchy tie you made me feel like a million bucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8orzQvjB5A

checking in w/this lil dood http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/09/05/meanwhile-back-at-nepotism-junction

DNC = Heart, RNC = Head

please please GTFO of here Luke

While in Tampa, I'm sure many members of the RNC got head.

When a fly-swatting snarkboy like J0rdan starts referring to Bam as "the president," you know the jig is up.

icey finding Chris Matthews darling is likely a new low for him. Perhaps CM's "bashfulness" is some small rational vestigial piece of him embarrassed that he proclaims something "the best ever" at every Republicrat convention.

As for my disposable income, small inheritance will probably go to medical emergency AS YET UNDIAGNOSED UNDER BAMCARE. I would also like to see wolves eat Bubba Reagan Clinton slowly.

*as opposed to Castro, who seemed like he might be a rather different person at home than he is on the stage.

My gf predicted future baby-mama drama for him, in a John Edwards way.

ha matthews is just an hilarious little kid whos funny to watch get excited abt things on tv, i have no delusions as to the quality of his character or political analysis

Morbz, I don't know if we have enough wolves to eat all these people. You're going to have to prioritize.

pity the wolves for not getting the fattened Bubba

hes all gristle now

this line of Patrick's made me go uh:

This is the president who brought Osama bin Laden to justice

unless he meant divine justice and 100 virgins

m/l thats what he meant

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/since-when-did-paul-ryan-become-a-liar.html

Ryan seems to have fallen victim to circumstances he didn’t quite foresee. The Romney campaign has spent the last several weeks practically daring the national press corps to call out its lies. Well beyond the usual exaggerations of a national campaign, Romney has built its entire message around two accusations — “you didn’t build that” and “just send them a check” — that are obviously false. A day before Ryan’s speech, a Romney adviser told reporters, “We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers.” The media that had spent the last two and a half years nuzzling gently in Ryan’s lap had been prodded with sharp sticks and reacted in the predictable fashion, though probably not predictable to Ryan himself.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/its-still-about-meritocracy-by.html

We need to be a society that does much more than provide equal access to our deeply unjust and flawed pseudo meritocratic system. We need to be a society that guarantees basic dignity for all people, a society that understands that luck is just as big a factor in most people's success as hard work, and a society that understands that there is more to human life than simply destroying one's life and soul to maximize some corporation's profits.

yup

Since When Did Paul Ryan Become a Liar?

By Jonathan Chait

near-actual beating-your-wife formulation there

good luck selling that to the corporate donors to the DNC

xp

what would crack me up is if reporters started every question to him with "Senator Ryan, if that is in fact your real name, ..."

clearly there are reasons why this is not the democratic party platform xp

jeez, it is true about looking at the difference in the crowds of both conventions. so striking. makes the republican party look like a corpse that died in the 30's. yes, a corpse that died. so backward and early 20th century and sad and mean.

there has to be a smart -younger- conservative out there who has thought about the idea of another political party, right? can there be such a thing as a non-crazy conservative party? republican party just seems so toxic. and split in 10 different directions. and they got nobody. heaven help us if jeb friggin' bush is their greatest hope. demz actually seem to have a good number of people now who could go on to higher office. tammy duckworth in 2016? why not?

idgaf what she's about, i just want someone named 'tammy duckworth' in higher office. teen movie villain '16!

there has to be a smart -younger- conservative out there who has thought about the idea of another political party, right?

obama!

</morbz>]

i agree with that. obama is a compassionate conservative! and i think that's the way to be if you want to be in politics. be a compassionate conservative democrat. then you won't have to try and win votes from scary racist church groups and all the other nighmare stuff you have to do for the GOP. and you can still be rich as hell.

not so compassionate if you're attending the funeral of a suspicious somebody in Pakistan, or are otherwise on the List

(or are trying to stop corruption in yr guvmint agency... or etc)

republican party just seems so toxic. and split in 10 different directions. and they got nobody -Scott

They just have the majority of the US House of Representatives, much of the US Senate, and a Presidential candidate who is ahead in some polls. Toxic works for many people

tammy duckworth in 2016? why not?

Duckworth was born in Thailand.

doesnt matter natural born regardless what the birthers say just means born to an american parent

^constitutional law scholar

i mean just cause yr parents happen to be overseas when you were born means you cant be president doesnt make any sense

i'm reading through michelle obama's speech and i'm kind of turned off by the whole thing. idk i'm left pretty cold by all the monarchial trappings of the presidency and all 'first lady' business goes there.

do u know why they call it a speech

Loved when Rubio celebrated former GOP prez contender George Romney being born in a foreign land

it's great to have a beautiful, verbally gifted wife of a fucking authoritarian cult figure.

next lifetime

jeez, it is true about looking at the difference in the crowds of both conventions. so striking. makes the republican party look like a corpse that died in the 30's. yes, a corpse that died. so backward and early 20th century and sad and mean.

The crowd for the RNC was the most fascinating part to me. So old and white and radiating mean-spiritedness.

surprised Morbs wasn't there

Because in the end, more than anything else, that is the story of this country – the story of unwavering hope grounded in unyielding struggle.

That is what has made my story, and Barack’s story, and so many other American stories possible.

And I say all of this tonight not just as First Lady…and not just as a wife.

You see, at the end of the day, my most important title is still “mom-in-chief.”

My daughters are still the heart of my heart and the center of my world.

But today, I have none of those worries from four years ago about whether Barack and I were doing what’s best for our girls.

Because today, I know from experience that if I truly want to leave a better world for my daughters, and all our sons and daughters…if we want to give all our children a foundation for their dreams and opportunities worthy of their promise…if we want to give them that sense of limitless possibility – that belief that here in America, there is always something better out there if you’re willing to work for it…then we must work like never before…and we must once again come together and stand together for the man we can trust to keep moving this great country forward…my husband, our President, President Barack Obama.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.

^ morbs otm dudes this sounds super peronist to me!!

o god

it's almost like she was making a case that you should vote for her husband

how sinister

she's evil!

i can't believe the First Lady would shill for her husband like that

we should believe it, just not listen to the bitch

ok whoa now

Republican enough for Perry. cuz obv I am a Republican. xp

ban morbs

you need a time out, imho

this is exactly why I keep telling you guys to stop paying attention to this hateful freak

goole, I can see where you're coming from but that's just American convention speech style and not even particularly egregious and when you think about what Scott said regarding the RNC, I'm going to see the good in that audience and that speech more than anything sinister.

wtf Morbz

Morbz, you can disagree with them, think them cynical or misguided or even morally deficient or whatever you do, but I really don't see how anyone can hate a family like the Obamas.

No, Michael, she's a bitch for defending her husband's record donchasee – when she should have submitted him to the Hague.

that's just American convention speech style

it's really pretty recent!

anyway, look michelle obama is just fine, but come on, our chief executive is married, that's as far as it ought to go, don't you think? once you get into the rhetoric of a mom-in-chief to all the wounded warriors exhorting the people into the unyielding struggle, sorry, you lost me! i just want to vote, not see off a viking funeral.

you need a time out, imho

This made me actually laugh. I seem to be surrounded by parents and kids recently and I hear this a lot.

*desperately tries to weld lid back on can of worms*

I agree with goole. I said the same thing last week: it's retrograde that we expect these women to play a role in these things by "humanizing" their men.

Wait, you don't want to see a Viking funeral?! Sending the slain to Valhalla in a burning boat amidst the fjords and whatnot? What is wrong with you?

ok you got me there

Alfred, should we just send them Mamie Eisnhower-style back to saying nothing? Michelle is a HUGE asset not just to the Pres but to the Democratic party and she may not be elected but she was sure as hell a part of the 'package' in '08.

it's retrograde that we expect these women to play a role in these things by "humanizing" their men.

i suspect this will be the role of the first dude, too, when we elect female POTUS

I kept watching Michelle's speech last night and thinking she might give HRC a good for her money on being the first female President.

Alfred, should we just send them Mamie Eisnhower-style back to saying nothing?

dude we force these First Ladies to act like Mamie Eisenhower!

Republican enough for Perry. cuz obv I am a Republican. xp

I didn't call you a Republican, I called you a hateful old white person. Which you are.

I'm not the one calling web bitches, (govt name redaction).

i suspect this will be the role of the first dude, too

Oh Lord! I can imagine it now. The sexual politics of it will be excruciating. "She's really not as much of a shrew* as it seems." Somebody had better come out with a good bio of Dennis Thatcher.

*(insert preferred epithet for powerful woman here)

She's developed marvelous camera presence and it was a delight to listen, especially when she hinted at his liberal past and how it informed the decisions I agree with, but I don't care whether "Barack" is a good father and husband and it's humiliating that we still haven't matured enough as a society to let First Ladies go their own way. At least Mamie didn't pretend she had illuminations into Ike!

she probably didn't understand a word either

dude we force these First Ladies to act like Mamie Eisenhower!

I'm sorry but I have zero pity for Michelle on that account. She doesn't look the least bit coerced. She evinced some concern about her daughters last night, but she also sounds exactly like a committed political wife and also like a woman capable of telling her husband if she did not want him to run for high public office.

I really don't see how anyone can hate a family like the Obamas.

MURDERERS.

Anyway, g'bye and God damn America

sometimes it feels like the us is really really desperate for a royal family

pretty sure that also applies to Laura, Barbara, Rosalynn, and Nancy when she remembered her children existed.

xpost to Michael

some of michelle's high approval rating is due to the fact that she's been not-a-political-figure and if she had played more of a 90s-hrc role, she wouldn't be off limits for media attacks / would be framed as a demon figure by the right etc etc

the second one happened anyway!

/ I really don't see how anyone can hate a family like the Obamas./

MURDERERS.

Anyway, g'bye and God damn America

Don't come back this time

she's trying to take away our french fries according to Fox

she is trying to control your food fyi

lol xp

to be fair they did spend some time talking about the fact that she does shit other than sit around and have fantastic looking arms - anybody who thinks that highlighting her work with veteran families is a bad political move or missed the importance of that focus is uh stupid.

did we figure out when the parody sock puppet took over Morbs' account yet? i mean, i've had my issues with dude in the past, but at least he used to be semi-coherent and relatively well-spoken in his outrage.

the second one happened anyway!
--Newgod joins this board, and quickly he's some dude (goole)

not nearly @ 90s-hrc levels

I can see your point, Alfred, and it's not a partisan thing but who was the last FLOTUS to get away with that just doing their own thing or just being châtelaine of the White House? Pat Nixon? Jackie? Even Ladybird was a pretty astute political wife and I've seen her make a speech once which was an eye-opener to me.

veteran/military families that is

to be fair they did spend some time talking about the fact that she does shit other than sit around and have fantastic looking arms - anybody who thinks that highlighting her work with veteran families is a bad political move or missed the importance of that focus is uh stupid.

dude, I get it, and it was terrific that she and the party came to terms with Lily Ledbetter and the Affordable Care Act. I'm protesting the dog and pony show we make of a First Lady's appearance.

it's called "Dressage"

I'm protesting the dog and pony show we make of a First Lady's appearance.

The entire convention is one big Dog and Pony show

Don't come back this time

― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:09 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

x1000

The hatred on the Right is so incoherent that I can't really fathom it. She's a terrible authoritarian ogress 'cause she wants to take away our right to eat shit food to the point where our kids can't even serve in the military?

Also, I have a hunch that the fact she works w/veterans families (code word for also giving a damn about wives) is viewed by some as both poaching on Right-wing territory and about as welcome as atheistic lesbians in the foxhole next to your neighbor's son.

Also, what the fcuk is up w/morbs, recently? Is he pissed that Obama's clever enough to avoid '68 all over again?

http://historygallery.com/worldwar1/HalttheHunMED.jpg

Thanks to health problems he's had a rough summer.

guys it's not exactly a secret that morbs hates liberals and isn't very fond of women or blacks so i'm not sure why ppl are shocked he would be foaming at the mouth over michelle obama

michelle obama would be a better president than any republican i can think of. to be fair, so would hillary. and yes they would murder people like morbz said but that's just part of the job. the other part is cool plane rides in a plane that is as big as a mansion!

Some of you are acting like you've never read a Morbius post before or like this is out of character. Dude posts like this all the fucking time.

balls, fucking fuck you you fucking piece of shit, say that to my face.

Some of you are acting like you've never read a Morbius post before or like this is out of character. Dude posts like this all the fucking time.

I don't know man, I'm the last person to be an apologist but I definitely feel like he's gotten worse in the recent months.

working w/ military families is not controversial in any sense but that matters. michelle's not playing a role as a political figure, which is a smart decision for the campaign and has worked very well. but also talk of her doing other stuff / becoming a political figure w/i the admin misses the fact that her likability is related to playing it safe. she's a million miles away from "I'm gonna put my wife in charge of health care reform"

Morbs having a bad summer y'all cut him a break.

balls, fucking fuck you you fucking piece of shit, say that to my face.

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:24 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

balls, you're login paying off so hard here.

your

AFAIK, 'bitch' is a new low, in fairness.

in other news...

Bedeviled by persistent storms, organizers of the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday decided to move President Obama’s Thursday night acceptance speech from the outdoor venue of Bank of America Stadium back inside the arena that is hosting the rest of the week’s convention events.

NY Times

But right-wingers are asserting that it's not the weather, it's that the Dems didn't think they could fill 65,000 seats this time.

DJP, you're not accusing morbs of being racist or misogynist or anti-liberal, are you?! I have no idea who balls is but morbs may be a cantankerous old leftie but I've always felt he was basically fighting the good fight.

I agree 'bitch' was pretty low when you could say 'accomplice to murder' and we would have just rolled our eyes.

anyway i'm not sure first lady role is retrograde really, it seems the strange result of feminism (a good thing) and increased celebrity worship culture (i would argue not a good thing). eleanor obv a forerunner but jackie maybe the first celeb flotus? and when did 'every first lady has their pet issue' come about - is that ladybird? 90s seems a watershed w/ hillary 'co-pres' and libby dole stealing the 96 convention. it would be nice to imagine a flotus just continuing to do their pre-presidency job but logistically seems impossible.

i agree that the greater role of first lady is reflective of greater forces in our culture, many good.

i posted this in the general election thread:

http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/08/31/emoter-in-chief/

the first celeb flotus

and, yeah, Lady Bird was the first with a pet cause, the first one being Lyndon.

Interestingly, in the period just before it became standard to speak at the convention when candidates gave acceptance speeches days later in their hometown they talked a bit more about themselves, perhaps because this was seen as acceptable in this more personal setting.

Relatedly, the candidates’ wives did NOT speak at the convention until recently, Eleanor Roosevelt excepted. Betty Ford may have been the next spouse to speak in 1976 and even after her it didn’t become routine. In those days there was at most the briefest mention of the spouse. Eisenhower referred to “Mrs. Eisenhower” (!) in passing.

These changes are linked to larger shifts in the culture including a trend toward informality and the decline of traditional notions of privacy. We now live in the age of “reality” TV in which the entire family runs for office.

Is this progress? It would be wrong to say that candidates were nobler in one era than another. The old style of presentation of self, rooted in the fiction of the reluctant and selfless candidate, was deeply dishonest. Candidates are human beings and their backgrounds are relevant. Yet this modern ritual in which Gore or Romney is forced to show at great length that he is a human and loves his family (does anyone doubt this?) is repellent. In this way however, while treacly rhetoric does not tell us much about candidates’ plans, it reveals much about our culture and its changing norms and values.

^^ bold bit worth keeping in mind, too

Content-free omnidirectional bile expressed in the most self-congratulatory manner possible 24/7 about everything except baseball

DJP, you're not accusing morbs of being racist or misogynist or anti-liberal, are you?! I have no idea who balls is but morbs may be a cantankerous old leftie but I've always felt he was basically fighting the good fight.

I agree 'bitch' was pretty low when you could say 'accomplice to murder' and we would have just rolled our eyes.

He has always been a misogynistic, borderline racist asshole but for some inexplicable reason most of the white dudes on this thread think he's just an irascible teddy bear. He has been saying variations of this shit since he began posting here, content- and context-free angry screeds directed at pretty much anyone who doesn't ascribe to his narcissist nihilism.

i mean i can totally understand rolling yr eyes at it and wow many trappings of the head of state resemble the trappings of royalty you don't say but considering the first lady can't in any way lead the life they were living pre-white house having them do something more than just redecorate the white house and play hostess seems a minimum and deploying them politically when they almost always poll better than the president is common sense, esp if yr candidate has been compared to either a poorly designed android or spock.

I agree 'bitch' was pretty low when you could say 'accomplice to murder' and we would have just rolled our eyes.

― Ogni tanto mi piace un'occhiata del Tevere (Michael White), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:31 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

both are reprehensible and disgusting

POTUS is head of State so entertaining, etc...is also part of job and FLOTUS has almost always been implicated.

I ashamed to say that I can only think of four pre Eleanor first ladies: Martha, Abigail, Mary Lincoln and Edith Wilson.

don't forget the irrepressible Nellie Taft.

sorry DP, I'm a misanthrope, not any other kind of -ist, and confusion on your part indicates you're not very bright. #Harvard

Of course I'm an anti-liberal leftie, MW. You people truly ruin everything.

Off to look at reprehensible and disgusting collateral-damage [sic] photos.

married to The Unsinkable Mr. Taft

Guess what, (govt name redaction)? When you hate everyone, that kind of means by definition that you hate black people and women. I'd draw you a Venn diagram but you'd probably just shout at it.

"I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally" <-- worst defense ever

i was definitely expecting the glib single sentence dismissals, but i didn't see the hashtag coming.

He has always been a misogynistic, borderline racist asshole but for some inexplicable reason most of the white dudes on this thread think he's just an irascible teddy bear.

I've met him in person and sparred with him on these threads for years and I haven't seen this. To me he's an old-school American liberal who's immensely frustrated by the post-Nixon, post-Reagan direction this country (and the world) has taken. I can understand why he's disappointed by the Democratic party and by Obama's caving (?) or cynicsim when it comes to the rule of law and the laws of war and I think it's remarkably impolitic to call the FLOTUS a bitch, but I don't think it's racism or misogyny.

Michael, calling a woman a bitch is always misogynistic.

FYI, the reason I learned Morbs' name in the first place is because several years ago I blocked him on Facebook to avoid him sending me angry messages about what a terrible person I am after he got himself suggest-banned for being a hateful dick.

tell us more about how it wasn't sexist/racist when you called Michelle Obama a bitch

xposts

but he hates purple ppl too dan!

yeah i was going to say xpost

not that i am saying that morbs is mysoginistic, but i think that its pretty hard to argue that the term itself isnt

of course i cant even spell misogynistic so

xxp Right, this is the non-misogynistic use of the word 'bitch'.

#TeamMorbs

people use offensive terms for impact

I got my biggest laugh in 2008 from that jerk n/a by voting for Cynthia McKinney for president, so that's the kinda gynophobic Klansman I am.

I voted for Obama in the NY primary in '08. Why? cuz Hillary Rodham is a --

if you're gonna call morbs racist you need more evidence than 'he irrationally hates obama'. he was gonna be posting these exact same posts no matter who won.

literally just opened for this thread for the first time and see myself being nonsensically cited by dr. morbius, cool

I got my biggest laugh in 2008 from that jerk n/a by voting for Cynthia McKinney for president, so that's the kinda gynophobic Klansman I am.

I voted for Obama in the NY primary in '08. Why? cuz Hillary Rodham is a --

Weren't you leaving?

*SLAM*

*TOPPLES DOWN STAIRS WITH HIS CANE, DIES*

I'm pretty sure that everybody here objected to the use of bitch and are a little bewildered by the intensity of his dislike for the Obamas but I've really yet to hear of an American President that morbs wouldn't dislike. The world just won't live up to his standards but I'm not sure why he's lashing out right now.

I didn't call you a Republican, I called you a hateful old white person. Which you are.

I'm not the one calling web bitches, (edit).

― DARING PRINCESS (DJP), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 11:03 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

RIP "calling a dude out by their real name when shit gets heated" thread.

It's unfortunate for everyone that we haven't all learned at this point to ignore Morbs completely in political threads.

Old Lunch bringing the noise

*SLAM*

*TOPPLES DOWN STAIRS WITH HIS CANE, DIES*

This is a cue, people.

or a clue

hey it's usually pretty easy to ignore morbs

but when he calls the first lady a bitch, it's kind of hard not to notice.

"shame on him for letting his shtick bubble over the line of decency it dances around, but we should remember just to ignore him and not suggest anything too harsh about why he can't be decent"

fuck any argument like this. if someone can't show respect for anyone else here they should fuck off willingly or be sent to the cornfield.

otm

O_O

O_O

― how's life, Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:06 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Shouldn't grampsy be offering his 2 cents right about now?

He already is

Uh, the ageism isn't exactly a good look, either, guys

no no it's totally ok, see i hate everybody

Actually, Ghost of Morbs cuts a surprisingly young figure:

http://images.wikia.com/looneytunes/images/2/23/GhostWanted-02.jpg

Woah, is that Robert Plant?

wtf happened here

I don't care whether "Barack" is a good father and husband and it's humiliating that we still haven't matured enough as a society to let First Ladies go their own way.

i agree with this -- it's embarrassing to me in particular
on the other hand, people love talking about their kids and hearing FLOTUS get mushy about her kids is pretty normal behavior
pretending that politicians don't need to be humanized is kinda blindery in 2012 considering how much and how loudly people hate politicians these days
as evidenced itt?

Would be great to have a bachelor/bachelorette president, but as this thread proves, they've got no love in their heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:American_president.jpg

Bah,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/American_president.jpg

That's right, bring Sorkin into this cluster.

yknow i kinda hated that movie at the time but i had no idea just how much reason i would have to hate it in the years ahead

ok just to be clear, researching your life/irl zings are going to lead to threadbans from here on out, so fucking cut it out.

please keep your bile on subject and at a low boil

why is this it's own thread anyway

^ no shit

I still have never watched an American President, Michael Douglas bothers me.

http://gifsoup.com/view6/3793762/call-me-maybe-2-o.gif

WGW plz get that name outta yr handle, ok? plz?

ok

looks like a journalist was kicked out of the DNC last night for asking Valerie Jarrett about drones.

I honestly don't grasp everyone's obsession with drone strikes. Assuming we're going to be bombing these people anyway, isn't it strictly better from a utilitarian perspective to do it with robots?

It's kind of fucked up to be able to murder someone thousands of miles away while you're eating cheetos.

It's fucked to be murdering them up close also, drones spare the lives of Our American Servicemen etc.

i'm looking forward to the day when we go to war, or proxy war, with an enemy with drones. that'll be a really great time, and a boon for the Cheetos(TM) industry

yeah I mean the logical conclusion of all this is warfare conducted by robot airplane dogfights which just sounds amazing and could probably be televised in primetime

It's fucked to be murdering them up close also,

I prefer artisanal murder

Assuming we're going to be bombing these people anyway, isn't it strictly better from a utilitarian perspective to do it with robots?

making war easier = more war

makes us, as a country, much more blase about committing resources to murdering people when the only consequences we have to bear are abstract fiscal ones

isn't that already the case tho for anyone who is not in the immediate family of a servicemember?

where there IS an actual benefit is in the amount of casualties. this kind of technology has unquestionably reduced the body-count of armed conflict with the US.

xp

isn't that already the case tho for anyone who is not in the immediate family of a servicemember?

there used to be this thing called the draft...

Also makes it easier, practically speaking, to bomb countries you aren't at war with. A US pilot getting shot down while killing people in Yemen or Pakistan would force the US to formally acknowledge responsibility.

yeah, 5 decades ago, right? xp

I'm not saying I think war is awesome, just that I am baffled by drones being some sort of omg much worse war-thing compared to the war status quo

i think the point is more that they're killing way more civilians than terrorists

so's all the other things with guns though

Making it easier to attack countries and not admit that you're doing it is kind of a big deal. There's also a wider issue of control and legality of the methods. Bombing from the air in civilian areas is already questionable when you have people on the ground who can give you some kind of steer on the target. Bombing completely remotely based off satellite pictures of what could be a convoy but often turns out to a wedding party is even more dubious.

yeah Nixon bombing Cambodia was odious (and much more lethal) and a crime. this administration doing similar stuff - ie, military adventures without oversight or legal justification - is pretty fucked up. president didn't use to have the power and authority to just kill whoever he wanted. that's pretty big.

it's not the technology that's really the issue, it's how the technology is being used.

I guess as a millenial i'm sort of inured to the idea that my government's gonna be dropping bombs on people at random no matter what is happening.

so's all the other things with guns though

Exactly, not that I'm advocating for drones here, I just don't think they are causing as much collateral damage as some claim. What concerns me far more is the emotional disconnect, as others have hinted.

i have no doubt that presidents have been killin' dudes for many years.

I think we can all agree on that part

Thank god it's Obama authorizing drone strikes and not the other guy.

I unsarcastically agree w this ^^

otm

I mean, if we're pretty certain any president would be pulling these drone strikes, then let's keep the guy who would be less damaging in all the other arenas.

ppl getting 'inured to the idea that my government's gonna be dropping bombs on people' is sort of the problem

^

otm, all i'm saying is that withdrawing completely from the politcal process and bitching from the sidelines while stubbornly refusing to vote isn't really the answer either. i know i'm kind of picking the lesser of two evils, but that's the choice i have to make right now.

Bitching from the sidelines seems preferable to supporting state-sanctioned murder, but ymmv.

You do realize one can vote without explicitly supporting state-sanctioned murder, correct?

On the other hand: just because you don't support one of the two major political parties doesn't mean you're withdrawing from the political process.

Thank god it's Obama authorizing drone strikes and not the other guy.

yet another problem is the fact that it IS Obama who's set the precedent here. someday there will be another president who will abuse the secretive power (even more) that Obama established.

Not if you're voting for state-sanctioned murderer. xxpost

can we trade back jon for morbs please?

Fair enough and that part of my comment was directed at anyone itt, more a reaction to all of the comments I've noted on my FB feed lately about people just not voting because they are fed up.

(xpost)

can we trade back jon for morbs please?

don't worry, i'll leave your precious little thread, you prick

ok!

you'd rather have someone calling the first lady a misogynistic word than have people with a slightly different view than you? got it. you are a huge part of why this board can be so awful.

ideas > word police

guys can we please not dismiss criticism of u.s. foreign policy by pulling out the old 'morbs, is that you?' routine, please

the qustin we all need to ask is: Will Hussein O do the wababi jihad shuffle, like President Stupid, after 3,000 of his countrymen were murdered by the same animals?

uh, there were plenty of other people than me calling out morbs for that bullshit. it seems like you've a particular problem with just me.

(xpost)

liberals only people who would conceivably do something about imminent mass global warming suicide? so if you wanted to justify voting for the better murderers that's one reason why.

and honestly, if Morbs' hateful bullshit is the kind of "idea" you prefer around here, you can just fuck right off

hey what if we got back on topic

i think ppl itt just wanted to have a floor riot if the dnc wasn't going to provide one, shit

to be fair, i was completely on topic until Matt P called me out for no particular reason

guys lets get back to ideas

I just derailed everything by griping about people being really concerned about drones, apologies for derail, let's watch tennis

did morbs get banned or did he just flounce off in a huff?

fair enough, let's go back to the topic, but i would appreciate Matt P letting me know, in another thread if needed, what exactly i did that was so harmful to this thread.

there's a thread for that iirc

i'm looking forward to the day when we go to war, or proxy war, with an enemy with drones. that'll be a really great time, and a boon for the Cheetos(TM) industry

― Thanks WEBSITE!! (Z S), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 7:26 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark

I think we're slowly but surely moving towards that Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon"

link? i mean, i'd genuinely like to know what i did.

(xpost)

if an ilx beef threatens to take over a perfectly innocent thread you can politely direct people here.

thanks

Let's not entirely get into a who started it scenario, but we're not going to not respond to attacks or threats from al-Qaeda or whomever. We're trying to extricate ourselves from the Bush wars in Asia, Palestine remains a recruiting tool for Salafists and anti-Westerners everywhere, oil interests (for the global economy, let's be clear) are real and apparently will trigger responses globally.

Dropping bombs on ppl we target as bad guys and killing their uncles and nieces, too, is not a great look but the public does seem inured to it. It's bad news as a long-term strategy for hearts and minds and generally nagl for America if we want to be a beacon for anything else than the long-range killing industry. I'm not sure we're not.

Killing Americans w/o any other accountability or "due process" than 'well, he just might look better dead' is kind of a giant fuck-you to the ideas behind Magna Carta, the common law, Habeus Corpus, 'a decent respect for the opinions of mankind', etc., and conceivably impeachable at some level but Lincoln basically got away with it and ppl are racist enough or pissed off enough about 'apostasy' that a majority is unlikely to emerge soon that would stop it. 'We're a Christian nation' but we worship Mammon more religiously and unemployment is high.

Drones are just a step in a line that leads from jawbones to nuclear weapons in terms of one group of humans trying to dominate others. The papacy tried to ban crossbows on account of their immorality. It totally worked...

Or as I have humorlessly and sadly argued for years, amongst the other reasons that Truman dropped the bombs on Japan, apart from the arguments that it would shorten the war and lessen American casualties (and further FDR's risible 'unconditional surrender' pledge), was that any President that didn't, would have been toast in '48.

so instead the Japanese became toast.

Michael, have you a source for that claim? I've read a few books on the period and this morning finished the Eisenhower bio, and I don't remember electoral calculations entering into Truman's thinking at all. I mean, this is the guy who saw FDR once in six months and was as accidental as they come.

Alfred, I'm not arguing the morality 'cause as usual I'm approaching it with a certain historical relativism (you and I could probably riff on the merits and vileness of the Wilson administration for ages) and I just don't see the democratic impetus to change it right now and I'm depressingly willing to get my hands dirty to safeguard the things I do like about this adminsitration's policies, things I think might be lost or worsened by another administration. I certainly don't subscribe to things will not get better until they get a whole lot worse - 'cause I've rarely seen that pan out.

I wouldn't be surprised that Truman did it just 'cause. He was an artillery major who was shelling the German lines until 10:45 on 11/11 but I think that mindset must have entered the minds (even subconsciously) of everyone connected.

Truman made his name fighting waste in the War Dept; FDR brought him on board to cover his ass.

at this point I'm more livid about the administration's vigorous prosecution of whistleblowers tbh

MW, i appreciate (as always) your big-picture take on the issue but i sort've feel like it's our duty as citizens to try to do something about immoral shit now, not act like it's already a hundred years from now and a long-dead issue.

that said truman's decision to unconstitutionally wage the korean war and then ramp it up to attack north korea was way worse than anything obama's done, imo.

I guess my point is that, considering demoocracy, considering the morality of the American electorate that bother to get up and vote, considering that it took us several hundred years to get to the still fucked-up racial attitudes and parochial, nay, tribal attidues we largely have now about religion and culture, the acquis sociaux, the women's reproductive rights (which I see under assault as at perhaps no time in my life), the sensible, non-rigidly ideological modern economic policies, the greater foreign policy goals and outlooks we have now could all be erased in a generation, and we're still facing globalization, a possibly radical environmental disaster, etc...

It's very, very similar JD. Unconstitutional is what the SCOTUS will declare or the Congress impeach. If not, have at it.

What we've done since we've become an empire to the basic idea of the responsibility of Congress to declare war, the executive to wage and Congress again to fund it is tragic, especially in light of all those years of British ppl fighting to make sure that Kings couldn't tax ppl w/o consulting Parliament and couldn't go off starting wars for the fuck of it but, you know, History begins in 1776.

but i sort've feel like it's our duty as citizens to try to do something about immoral shit

I don't disagree, JD, and I might be entirely and disastrously wrong, but I also don't think myself so entitled to perfectly clean hands.

dude, it's not about clean hands or entitlement.

feel like it's important to be aware of all the dirty stuff then sort of reasonably approach it and engage with it like m. white above, better than catholic trolling and moral act weigh game hypocrisy both. xp and you know, being the change you wanna see, pretty hard stuff but that's ok i guess *SORRY JON*

i don't think any of us do have 'clean hands' necessarily (and this isn't really a 'should we vote for obama' argument -- no one who isn't a troll is going to seriously argue that obama isn't better than romney) but i also don't think it does us any good to sort of shrug our shoulders at terrible practices and policies just because we can't (immediately) do anything about them. that virtually guarantees that nothing will ever change.

anybody know the speaker list for tonight?

Doubling way way back cause I just caught up on this afternoon's posts: would people object less to First Lady speeches if they incorporated some measure of life besides Supporting The Husband and Kids? Because the thing that galled me most about that speech was that, if you didn't know anything about Michelle Obama beforehand, you could easily come away thinking that her entire relationship to policy and community work and everything else was being the husband of a guy who did those things, when in fact she's a highly-educated, experienced public-sector administrator who could actually offer, one imagines, some pretty on-point material concerning the key campaign theme of health care. It was a good speech for what it was trying to do, but for me there was this giant gaping hole where that stuff should have been.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/05/wednesdays-dnc-speaker-schedule-bill-clinton-elizabeth-warren/

xpost

so Warren's not doing so hot in the polls right now? for a while they were neck & neck and then it seemed as if she had pulled ahead a bit...

I have to say I'm a sucker for this kind of thing. I didn't know any of the speakers besides MObama last night and I mostly enjoyed it. I'll watch Bill for political calculation and Warren for pleasure.

now Brown is avg abut 5 points ahead iirc

xpost

gawker thing that sorta is bugging me:

http://gawker.com/5940608/stuttering-and-sincerity

Stuttering and Sincerity

by Hamilton Nolan

Michelle Obama stutters. She does not have a stutter. She stutters on purpose. "I-I-I, I've seen it in our men and women in uniform." "Fr-from the young person with so much promise." "And-and, even as a kid..."

It is a studied stutter, deployed in order to build sincerity. It is not so much a rhetorical device as an acting device. The same could be said for the presentation of almost all political convention speeches. And it is, at its core, sad...

I wouldn't be surprised that Truman did it just 'cause. He was an artillery major who was shelling the German lines until 10:45 on 11/11 but I think that mindset must have entered the minds (even subconsciously) of everyone connected.

― Ogni tanto mi piace un'occhiata del Tevere (Michael White), Wednesday, September 5, 2012 8:32 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

his diary entry when he found out about the A-Bomb was something like "we've got a great new weapon to kill the Japs"

That stutter story is weird as heck; akin to the teleprompter stuff they throw at the pres.

similarly, at the end:

Yesterday, journalist Michael Tracey was instructed to leave a DNC media section for asking Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett about drone strikes. Such temerity is considered rude, here at the pageant. Even reasonable people—people in the media, people who are on the same side as you are, politically—will frequently frown on such behavior. Later for that. Not here. Not during our tearjerking moments, our chance to feel good about ourselves and marvel at the glamor of the leaders we have selected. The protesters who interrupt speeches are not taken seriously, by those who ostensibly agree with them. The few journalists who relentlessly bring up uncomfortable subjects are considered downers. Drone strikes? Perhaps, maybe, later. But not now. Now is about family, and love, and other things with which polls show it is impossible to disagree. Michelle is speaking, and the dress is gleaming, and we are all able to revel in a moment of collective ecstasy over our own self-righteousness.

We are all quick to point out the palpable lack of sincerity in those on the other side. For those on our own side, such theatrics are considered forgivable—a nod to reality, a concession to necessity. We congratulate ourselves on being hard-nosed realists who understand these things are for a higher good. To demand outright honesty, on stage, in prime time, is considered stupid. Childish. Naderesque. There is no need to address the concerns of those who harp on such things; we simply remove them from the sphere of acceptable voices, and continue on with the ceremony.

There is no need for our leaders to convince us that an election should be determined in the most superficial way possible. We have already convinced ourselves.

i noticed that same thing that ham no picked up on but i wonder if michelle even realizes that she's doing

I noticed it too. "Realizes she's doing?" -- I wouldn't be surprised if she practiced it.

I think pretty everybody I know does this unless they're pro speakers. It's either calculated to elicit a response of sincerity or it's just somebody who's not a robot.

if you're gonna call morbs racist you need more evidence than 'he irrationally hates obama'. he was gonna be posting these exact same posts no matter who won.

― iatee, Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:52 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the "president sam cooke" thing was pretty gross

the DNC is a 3-day commercial, not a place where policy is made. there's nothing hypocritical about that.

(xp)

Yeah, I'm kind of underwhelmed by how 'sad' this is.

Part of his thing reminds me that plenty of people really don't know why or how people vote, and get angry when (a) persuasive speech is something other than just pure stats

I hate shit like this. Republicans trying to court the militant zionist vote and the Dems blindly following them off the cliff.

The Romney campaign pounced on news that the Democratic convention amended its platform to described Jerusalem as Israel's capital in a contentious floor vote. Romney has been pushing President Obama to unequivocally state that Jerusalem is Israel's capital for several weeks, which would be a break with longstanding policies across multiple administrations that would leave it up to future negotiations with Palestinians.

vote for obama, his stats are off the chart. 16 int, 13 wis, 18.96 str, 17 cha, 16 political dex, 10 con

http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-change-platform-add-god-jerusalem-211928130--election.html

sigh...

i guess that the growing a spine movement didnt even make it 24 hours huh

Tom Carson swooning about Michelle (he voices the same disappointment about her husband expressed here). I like the Mary Tyler Moore reference.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/blogs/death-race/2012/09/no-ones-ever-gonna-ask-to-see-michelles-birth-certificate-right-mitt-1.html

i guess that the growing a spine movement didnt even make it 24 hours huh

that sweet sweet donation $$$ more important than appearance of backbone

vote for obama, his stats are off the chart. 16 int, 13 wis, 18.96 str, 17 cha, 16 political dex, 10 con

― Mordy, Wednesday, September 5, 2012 6:28 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all-time post imo

Cleaver killing it

have it on mute but what was lisa loeb going on about

Something about staying would be my guess.

Had it on in the background, she said... ehh, I only heard what I wanted to tbh.

Hey, I can this from seat back tv on the way home, assuming they don't shut it off.

57.

I would totally suggest-ban Morbs based on his shitty behavior on this thread if I had any idea how to suggest-ban someone, or what it in fact MEANT.

MD, the suggest ban is now a relic of olden days. Nowadays we have the whizzy new Flag Post link. You use it just as you would use SB, but not quite exactly. Hope this helps. :)

http://www.avclub.com/articles/democrats-book-scarlett-johansson-and-kerry-washin,84634/

Faced with having to come up with a watercooler moment that could compete with Clint Eastwood arguing with the invisible man who's always telling him to go fuck himself, the Democratic National Convention scrambled to find the rare famous person who is not Jon Voight or Kelsey Grammer, and finally settled on Scarlett Johansson and Kerry Washington.

is it just me, or do the Clinton people deliberately spin reporters before every major speech he gives with "He's still writing the speech! We don't even know if he's on message! No one knows WHAT crazy thing he might say!" and they believe it every time

is that ross perot's son speaking now?

Clinton's reach is many-tentacled. (xpost)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gnA6wVG5slY/SQFw1KZK3qI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/TuyE6BwZBPc/s400/CorleoneFamilyOrgChart.jpg

I'm kidding--I like him. (Even if I've taken a solemn vow never to utter the words "B__ D___.") But Daria's right, he doesn't sneak into town quietly.

56.

LLLLOOOOLLLL.

Undocumented Immigrant speaking

COVERIN ALL BASES

Boy, does Andrew Sullivan ever have it in for Elizabeth Warren. Actual headline, as he pleads (with whom, I don't know) not to have her speak in prime-time: "Could Elizabeth Warren Cost Obama the Election?" This'll be the first time I've ever heard her, so looking forward to it.

trudeau has been advertising her speech for like the last two weeks

elizabeth warren is pretty rad. and smart.

she might try to tear mitt a new one. should be fun.

(xpost) I actually thought you mean Justin for a minute--"Huh?"--finally clued in.

this is pretty much her shot at beating president brown so she better make the most of it

people burned by bain! sweeeet.

BAAAAAIN

So far this convention is like uma Thurman doing the heart exploding move on David carridine

Bain. Bain BAIN

Speakers killing the "I know there are winners and losers in biz" line to death

FOX masturbating furiously over "God"/ "Jerusalem"

The PBS discussion made me realize how really funny that one line was: "He's not a bad man...he just has no moral compass." He's one of the best amoral men you'll ever meet.

Here comes Rush Limbaugh's bete noire.

even god hates romney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgzQ5tjV_Fo

this isn't working

corner shocked that dems brave enough to go pro choice rights at 10:00PM

don't think we're the target demo here

if I didn't speak english I would think this woman was a republican

people who hate romney: african-americans, latinos, asians, poor people, democrats, union members, catholics, dogs, god.

Here comes a job-creatin' CEO.

countdown to k-lo talking about 'party of moloch'

DanFosterNRO I'll say it again: if Romney didn't want to be vulnerable to a Fluke attack, he wouldn't have proposed outlawing all forms of contraception.

did he just say his first job was as a retail warehouse?

winona ryder trending on twitter btw

kathrynlopez besides abortion a priority, it & contraception trumping #religiousliberty, election is re mitt not having daughters & rush 2 rally indeps?

does anyone know what klo is trying to say?

ACK!

this guy

there's something pitch perfect abt his boringness
like I'm a real businessman, did your 24 pack of basketballs all go flat, sir? I will find you a replacement in the back. no, thank you, sir.

Come back Castro, all is forgiven

This is one of the first times that I have been really glad that CNN/fox are not playing the speeches

wonder if they deliberately found a really dull speaker because it would actually shore up a certain demographic, like it somehow makes the Dems look more like the party of economically trustworthy american businesspeople if they have guys like this to draw on

alternately, they saw the Sex House thread and think America is really stoked about Frank

Ed Schultz (who definitely knows talk radio) makes the excellent point that Fluke wasn't just called one thing by Limbaugh - he attacked her for hours of radio time for a solid week, relentlessly, and hundreds of other right wing radio hosts followed up on it after him. And she didn't back down.

hahahaha these musical cues are so great though

I don't know about Wilford Brimley here...the whole last hour, really. Sorry, but the reality is, for the purposes of a convention--at least the highly visible part--how effectively a speech is given ought to be paramount.

his boringness was intentional as prelude to Bubba

They prob figured that based on the excitement level of this football game, they were free to put on the dullest speaker they wanted

was that "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'"?

the crowd really likes her

Fluke was a badass through that whole thing, yeah. Also don't forget that, like the Akin thing, there were a couple of layers - - - he called her a slut and a prostitute but it was also that he genuinely seemed to think that you pay more for birth control the more sex you have. It was this reveal of a total lack of knowledge on something really really basic.

yes lol

They prob figured that based on the excitement level of this football game, they were free to put on the dullest speaker they wanted

Hahaha so otm

i'm sure pure chance but scheduling clinton on ladie's night is pretty canny

gotta admit that when Warren said "drowning in a sea of debt" I went "drowning in a seat of debt/Where everyone...would love to drown"

I like what Warren is saying but she kinda sucks at this, WAIT FOR APPLAUSE once in a while, huh?

she's not a natural

Plz don't call it obamacare

there's a reason that's somehow a competitive race

Sullivan was wringing his hands a lil while ago about her "smugness."

I don't thinks she's so terrible but she needs coaching.

digging this honestly i'm even ok w her relentless quaver

Sullivan just doesn't have a lot of good things to say about most women in public life imo

or about anything, really

doesn't know what to do w/ her hands

yeah his distaste for her is... weird

I think she's warming up pretty well - this is hitting pretty solidly imo

Sullivan: pro-foreskins, not so pro-powerful ladies

my number one complaint w/ dems is not using scripture to justify policy but warren nice w/ the quote + citation from NT there

SCRIPTURE YES

i'm digging this plenty.

I want to invent invisible gloves tht will keep public speakers from doing the Clinton thumbpoint

well, not number one. but number one complaint re political skill v. moral failings

we don't need Sully now that George Will has arrived.

well if joe biden is ready

BONE SAW IS READYYYY

Joe Biden was born ready.

oh ffs

special Lindsey buckingham appearance plz

oh mannnnnn clinton nostalgia highlight reel

it's corny but 92 election is still so vivid to me, i am prey to this shit

oh fuck they couldn't have picked "Go Your Own Way"?!

this feels more like some tv show 20-year reunion show than 'something serious is happening'

he's rly lost weight!

i tend to agree more w/ his critics than his hagiographers but i have to admit i do like this bastard

Kind of amazing how much his reputation has sort of quietly restored itself. I mean I haven't forgotten the 08 bullshit, but it's also...I mean, in 2000 Gore was having to actively avoid the guy because of how much the Lewinsky thing rankled people.

that was a major fuckup from gore imho