Calif. teacher resigns after leaving family for student

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120301-teacher-student-relationship-9a.photoblog600.jpg

Val Kilmer, no

that's the picture i saw when i turned on my computer today.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/01/10549926-calif-teacher-resigns-after-leaving-family-for-student

Hormones be funny stuff. Make brains melty.

vili looks different than i remembered

the phrase "hideous couplings" springs to mind

sex really can do some fucked up shit

I give them two months

she looks v. young for a teacher

i think like the woody allen thing you should stay away from relationships with a person if you knew that person when they were a kid. especially if they were a kid like two weeks ago. and doubly especially if they are your daughter, in the case of woody. maybe if you ran into them in a bar and they were sad and 30 it would be different. and if they weren't your daughter.

wish someone would interview the student at length

lol NV

Soon Yi is not Woody's daughter

creepy

technicality. her brother is her step-son.

x-post

haha i love stories like this

really warms the heart

is teacher-student sex a uniquely american kind of freakout?

god no

debra lafave, if only i could be 15 again for you

http://img1-cdn.newser.com/square-image/13332-20110401024939/teen-sex-teacher-busted-again.jpeg

http://itsguycode.com/images/stories/jail-bait/teacher/lafaye/lafave-husband-3.jpg

lol @ genetics, legal standing, and facts of day-to-day life all being a "technicality"

xp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076594/Mark-Westcott-Married-teacher-sex-girl-pupil-ski-trip-jailed.html

no i agree there's nothing creepy about a relationship with yr stepchild who was 10 when you started dating their mother, Shakes OTM

seems like there have been stories every week like this in la for the past month or so

I didn't say it wasn't creepy I said she's not his daughter. which is a fact.

well there was that california school that had some much more hideous shit going on too

yea that's an entirely diff thing that was fucking crazy

I know a girl who started dating her high school math teacher right after graduating. they're not still together. tbf I believe he was in his 20s. still weird to me though.

My high school honors English teacher divorced his wife so she could marry is daughter's best friend. She was in her late 20s at the time; he was just past 50 IIRC.

I'm gonna assume you mixed up some nouns there

no, some pronouns

he married his daughter's best friend, one of his former students

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120301-teacher-student-relationship-9a.photoblog600.jpg

i like how their heads are tilted just so, v nice photo

hands

I kinda want ZS to animate their heads Roxbury steez.

Man, that girl is so lucky

sorry, I couldn't resist, that's the default reaction when male student hooks up with teacher

when i heard the story on the radio this morning the way they glossed over the details actually made me think "oh, so he made the decision to resign so he could be with her and not hide it, i guess that's somewhat honorable as these things go" but no it looks like he was on some kind of leave and then asked to resign so yeah

He also called his girlfriend's mother's allegations a "pack of lies" and urged people to be careful in choosing what to believe.

I have never heard this phrase used outside of that Phil Collins song before

Any sort of power balance disparity makes this sort of thing fucked up. Age difference only the tip of the iceberg.

Then again, such disparities are kind of hot if they're somehow coded as rule-breaking and not exploitative?

So I guess what I'm saying is that I will never find a middle-aged dude hot so this is just gross and exploitative

He also called his girlfriend's mother's allegations a "pack of lies" and urged people to be careful in choosing what to believe.

I have never heard this phrase used outside of that Phil Collins song before

― some dude, Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:50 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol true

In five years she's going to be all "I wonder if he ever finished that novel"

He also called his girlfriend's mother's allegations a "pack of lies" and urged people to be careful in choosing what to believe. then broke into an air drum solo.

I have a friend whose husband was the teacher in a similar scenario. Dude went from "likable goof" to "most batshit guy I know IRL" in sixty seconds flat after he got caught

I have had similar firsthand experiences with people in similar situations and they are always, erm, eye-opening.

- colleague of my dad's who perved it up w/ 13yo student, got caught, went to jail, and now... teaches kids in another state!
- friend of my wife's who had a relationship with her high school physics teacher
- acquaintance who once complained to me about how "hard" it is to be a hs teacher because of the preponderance of hot young chix

in all cases it's just "wtf are you thinking/you are insane"

One of my close friends in high school had a Dad who was a HS teacher at a different school across town. He had an affair with a senior student (18 at the time, he was in his 50's) - she got pregnant and he left his family and married her. Creepiest, weirdest situation EVER. I don't even know if they're still together but that whole period of time was like, "I'm sorry..you what now?"
It completely changed my view of her dad. He had taught me and a friend of mine for a while, we thought he was the greatest teacher ever, the coolest Dad in the world...and within months we were all just rallying around our friend and her Mom, and he became a stranger to all of us, including his own family. It was just awful.

- acquaintance who once complained to me about how "hard" it is to be a hs teacher because of the preponderance of hot young chix

the only way you could possibly feel this way is if all your information about being a teacher in hs comes from watching pornos

I can kind of understand in a distant way. There were some girls who definitely looked older when I was in high school in the way some women look kind of vaguely between 16 and 30. Most high school kids, though, look... like high school kids. And the ones who look really mature usually like they're 35 by the time they're 22. And if you speak to them while they're in high school, they usually have the mindset and maturity of a teenager!

Nice use of air quotes there

xpost

And if you speak to them while they're in high school, they usually have the mindset and maturity of a teenager!

this a million times no matter what they look like. and not just usually. always.

the only way you could possibly feel this way is if all your information about being a teacher in hs comes from watching pornos

perhaps I should have clarified that the person speaking was a hs math teacher

That girl in that picture up there looks like a child no matter how you slice it. Maybe it's just because I'm 42, but really.

as someone who taught hs, the idea of wanting to embark on a romantic relationship with a hs student seems totally insane to me.

exactly

agreed, love em and leave em

lol

Mordy otm.

I like HS kids okay, but marrying any of them? FFS.
Besides that, I was a fucking idiot when I was 18. I thought I was super grounded and together, but I was a self-absorbed idiot. And any 40 year old who thinks any 18 year old, male or female, is marrying material, is off their bloody rocker. I mean, just the difference between someone at 18 and the same person at 25 is HUGE. It's just so wtf to me.

tbf, some people really don't mature much intellectually or romantically past that age. Hopefully, those people are not high school teachers.

people really REALLY love doing the wrong thing. don't know if you've noticed that over the years.

i could get high and mighty because i'm a grownup who's only ever been in age-appropriate relationships, but i'm constantly reminded of the marc maron routine where he goes "Of course I want to have sex with teenage girls. C'mon, doesn't everyone? That's why there's a law." -- some men hit an age or a point in their life where teenage girls aren't attractive to them at all anymore, but to be really real most just straight up do not. and it definitely should be a measure of your character as a man and as a person whether you can just move on and not give more than a glance to girls that young after you hit the age of, like, 22.

some men hit an age or a point in their life where teenage girls aren't attractive to them at all anymore, but to be really real most just straight up do not.

i'd flip this. some men for whatever fucked up wiring reason don't have a problem being attracted to people significantly younger and more immature than them, but to be really real most just straight up do.

i think there's a certain kind of guy who never got much of a look from girls when he was that age, so, at any time after that when young women do give him some attention, it's like holy shit, dreams are finally coming true!!!

perhaps this is obvious but the weird thing is not the age difference, it's the specific attraction to teenagers that's weird. The older you get, the less age differences really matter (70 yo dating 60 yo = who cares), but the fixation on teenager-ness is like... come on guys get over high school already

there are a significant number of men out there who emotionally are on about a 16 year old's level. so, in some ways it makes sense. you have to be an adult to want to be in an adult relationship.

feels like a lot of it is just sheer wish fulfillment

it's the age difference too. 70yo dating 60yo (or even 40yo dating 30yo to a lesser extent) isn't weird, but like, 80yo dating 40yo or 40yo dating 20yo is still pretty weird.

i dunno, i sometimes see high school girls around my neighborhood and it messes w/me because they look younger than what i remember HS girls to look like. which is why this story and others like it are weird, that girl looks like she's 14.

some men hit an age or a point in their life where teenage girls aren't attractive to them at all anymore, but to be really real most just straight up do not.

i'd flip this. some men for whatever fucked up wiring reason don't have a problem being attracted to people significantly younger and more immature than them, but to be really real most just straight up do.

― Mordy, Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:19 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there's a difference between finding someone attractive with no guilt or reservations, finding someone attractive but having a problem with it and the restraint to not act on or express, and not finding them attractive at all.

like, 80-40, or 40-20, they're both adults so i wouldn't forbid them from being in a relationship obv, but i'd definitely judge them and wonder what they could possibly be getting out of the relationship.

To be attracted to a 17 year old is straight-up biology. Thinking it wise to hook up with them in the short or long term is just a sign you haven't learned anything

half plus seven, bros

michael white otm

i have no idea how old anyone is anymore. someone could be 20 or 40 or 16. everyone young looks old to me and everyone old looks younger than they are.

you need new glasses

wonder to what extent stuff like this interacts with the fact that like 90% of high schoolers on tv +movies are played by very sexually desirable 20-something year olds

^^^

i mean maybe i'm overestimating how common this mindset is. but i feel like it's some kind of rite on passage for most adults with a living father to at some point see your dad leering at (or dating) someone your age or younger and be skeeved out.

I don't have a problem with age differences at all, but it has to be in a sensible stage of life for the difference to be more of a wash. Like, I don't want to marry someone who doesn't know what a W-2 is. I don't want to have to teach someone how to pay the fucking phone bill...and I don't want to marry someone who still wants to go to a fucking nightclub on a Friday night.

http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Ann-Margret/Annex/Annex%20-%20Ann-Margret%20(Bye%20Bye%20Birdie)_02.jpg

i mean maybe i'm overestimating how common this mindset is. but i feel like it's some kind of rite on passage for most adults with a living father to at some point see your dad leering at (or dating) someone your age or younger and be skeeved out.

^^^ why I don't discuss Beyonce with my father

There's a big difference between finding someone young sexually attractive and thinking you should have sex with them, too! I mean, I get the Marc Maron bit and your "measure of a man" thing (although it should be "measure of an adult" really) but this is more of a sense thing than it is a legal/willpower thing.

I mean, if there was someone who was 25 but had an incredibly low IQ, is it right for me to have sex with them? If suddenly murder was legal, most people aren't going to be murderers. If you changed the age of consent or the rules, most people still aren't going to have sex with teenagers!

The age of consent is below 18 in plenty of places in the US and it's still not that common to see someone older with a teen. It happens, but... not common.

more classic example ^^ -- current example:

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25800000/Tessa-suburgatory-25856734-500-244.gif

don't people in their 30's look like college kids now though? and there are plenty of teens who look old. i blame corn syrup. or bovine growth hormones. in the old days though kids looked old and had 3 kids by the time they were 20 and 30 year olds looked like they were 80.

x-post

Nah, the weird thing is not the age difference, it's not the teenager-ness, it's the fucked-up power relationship. You are given authority over these kids, and with that comes the assumption that you are responsible enough not to take advantage of that fact.

I don't want to marry someone who still wants to go to a fucking nightclub on a Friday night.

Oh shi-

^^^ why I don't discuss Beyonce with my father

― Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ the title of the illuminating memoir DJP will publish shortly before his campaign for president

I had no qualms availing myself of my Dad's porn mag collection until the day I happened upon the Barely Legal. *record scratch*

I think I am fine in theory w/ people sleeping w/ 16 y/os who they do not teach but on a personal level I don't find teenage girls particularly attractive because I know they are all horrible people

16 y/o boys are also horrible people ftr

This link from the Duluth thread pretty relevant: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/02/27/grand-marais-older-men-pursuing-teen-girls

Smaller town that's fairly secluded, older guys and girls who are 16 or even possibly younger, and the guy interviewed really doesn't seem like he's got a different mindset than a teen

just sit in a mall food court for an afternoon. Guaranteed to kill that urge stone DEAD.

ok, you guys have me convinced to check this out. age of consent is 16 here. mall food court, here I come!

Nah, the weird thing is not the age difference, it's not the teenager-ness, it's the fucked-up power relationship.

well yeah. the fucked-up power relationship is kinda implicit in any relationship where you have someone who is of, say, college age or older, pursuing a teenager. (the teacher thing obviously adds an extra layer to the power dynamic)

xp

i think if you place an emotionally stunted adult (and a LOT of them are still in HS in their heads) and put them in a job teaching high schoolers, and involved in the life of a high school, then they're gonna start to make some weird leaps in logic that make being in a relationship with a high school student seem "natural." kinda goes both ways with maturity.

lol mh

forget 16, 20 year olds are horrible people too.

anyway let's all watch Election now shall we

do creepy adult ppl having romantic relationships with young school-aged ppl help their romantic partners w/ their homework after the sexing is done?

"You are given authority over these kids, and with that comes the assumption that you are responsible enough not to take advantage of that fact."

yeah thats why i said that about not having anything to do with someone you knew as a child. cuz they are always going to see you in the parental/authority role, and be intimidated by that. its a really bad place to start.

i feel like it's some kind of rite on passage for most adults with a living father to at some point see your dad leering at (or dating) someone your age or younger and be skeeved out.

Um no and this is fucking disgusting; I think it's an inappropriate normalization of what should be aberrant and unacceptable. The sexualization of younger and younger women in partic is distasteful and the comment about how TV teens are all played by hot 27yos is otm.

I don't mind discussing Beyonce w/my dad because, while we can bond on being over the hill, skeevey dudes checking out the belles, we also know it's just a window show and nothing else will happen nor would we want it to and I have plenty of experience to show that the appreciation of beauty doesn't diminish w/age nor would I want it to. I see no shame nor feel any compunction about admiring pretty ladies any more than admiring pretty flowers or a sunset. I'm not going to get my mind's panties in a knot 'cause of the way I am programmed.

Guaranteed to kill that urge stone DEAD.

Genuine LOL

mind panties lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8lU0xfQ-V4&feature=related

this incident only confirms the need for sexual freedom. however, by sexual freedom we mean freedom *from* sexuality.

sexuality is an enemy that cannot be reasoned or bargained with. its tyranny knows no bounds. it takes away from biological and mental resources that could be used for much more productive ends, and enables exploitation and inequality of the most insidious sort.

in any rational society reproduction must be decoupled from sexuality. in our model, babies would be grown, not born. eventually there would be the withering away of the need for babies as technology would allow for humans to come into existence as fully formed adult banaka units.

Laurel, if i say that something universally skeeves people out, then disagreeing and saying it's "disgusting" and that i'm "normalizing" it, that makes me think you misread my post

do creepy adult ppl having romantic relationships with young school-aged ppl help their romantic partners w/ their homework after the sexing is done?

Pretty sure it's before if Penthouse Forum is to be believed.

tv teens being played by hot 27yos just makes me more attracted to hot 27 yos tho, actual 16 year old girls still just look like little kids to me

Election was such a great illustration in that the teacher who did have sex with a high school kid also spent his time rocking out and talking about how he was going to write the great american novel

Then Matthew Broderick's character has all this misplaced sexual energy and has a dream about the high school student, but he tries to have an affair with an adult woman instead

also, lol banaka

mind panties omg
xxxp

itt djp's dad asks if you saw the ass on beyonce

i just kind of can't believe that the older person in an older/teen relationship isn't manipulating the teenager. maybe not 100% of the time, but probably most of the time. which is kinda why i want to punch that guy in the picture above.

I don't mind discussing Beyonce w/my dad because, while we can bond on being over the hill, skeevey dudes checking out the belles, we also know it's just a window show and nothing else will happen nor would we want it to and I have plenty of experience to show that the appreciation of beauty doesn't diminish w/age nor would I want it to. I see no shame nor feel any compunction about admiring pretty ladies any more than admiring pretty flowers or a sunset. I'm not going to get my mind's panties in a knot 'cause of the way I am programmed.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree w/ this. it's not very common, but it is possible to just admire women out of your league/age group from afar in a way that's just kind of passive and not disgustingly anatomical or whatever.

The sexualization of younger and younger women

I cannot tell you how much I disagree with this.

I guess on re-reading I shd clarify that I can see how it would get less viscerally disgusting as you get older, until the point where you and your cohort are, like, responsible adults by some definition, and a woman your age is a "younger" woman but not a "young woman." There are other gendered things about that stance that don't sit right with me but it's not like being in HIGH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE and your dad leering at your friends in front of you, for instance.

has a dream about the high school student

the fact that he fantasizes about her saying "fuck me Mr. McAllister" always makes me lol because what kind of thing is that to say during sex

xp

let Penthouse Forum teach you how to live

damn, Shakey beat me to
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9j5ucgDgF1qzzh6g.jpg

there's definitely some manipulation going on there. that photo looks like 'dad reunited w/daughter after she was rescued from pedo ring' more than 'loving couple celebrates impending nuptials'

always good to get banaka's take on these things

I've never witnessed my dad leering at anybody really so I guess I have not gone through this particular "rite of passage"

maybe he was leering at you

the fucked-up power relationship is kinda implicit in any relationship where you have someone who is of, say, college age or older, pursuing a teenager.

See, I don't think this is true. Although, of course, your phrasing is purposefully built to imply activity on the part of the person who is older and passivity on the part of the younger person. Many people in such relationships would not perceive that as accurate, rather that they entered into a relationship with one another. But the teacher-pupil relationship (and the child's-best-friend relationship) are coming from a base where the power relationship of the older half is very much ingrained, and I find it difficult to see how you can form a healthy partnership from that.

watching Solid Gold with my father was an odd experience because he would shout "WOO! SHAKE IT!" at the Solid Gold Dancers and I would always think to myself "they can't hear you"

The sexualization of younger and younger women

I cannot tell you how much I disagree with this.

knowing you, I'm anticipating some kind of historical argument that is totally OTM

xp

Hey some dude, I was reacting to your calling it "a rite of passage" because that makes it seem like something it's normal to go through, you could even say it's healthy. Like, it's gross to kids when they figure out their parents had/are having sex, too, but we would say that that knowledge is a healthy, if temporarily uncomfortable, part of growing up. I don't think being a witness to your own dad perving on young girls is in the same category.

But the teacher-pupil relationship (and the child's-best-friend relationship) are coming from a base where the power relationship of the older half is very much ingrained, and I find it difficult to see how you can form a healthy partnership from that.

right yeah totally agree with this.

my god election is good imna rescreen asap

DJP+Dad bringin the sitcom lolz in this thread

my dad embarrassed the hell out of me when i was a kid. often. so embarrassing. he was definitely from the mad men 50's. not a bad guy at all, but ugh...

mw, sexualization by mass media isn't the same as acknowledging that people of that age have sexuality of their own.

Banaka otm

Hey some dude, I was reacting to your calling it "a rite of passage" because that makes it seem like something it's normal to go through, you could even say it's healthy. Like, it's gross to kids when they figure out their parents had/are having sex, too, but we would say that that knowledge is a healthy, if temporarily uncomfortable, part of growing up. I don't think being a witness to your own dad perving on young girls is in the same category.

― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:43 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lots of rites of passage are unhealthy and gross, that wasn't my implication at all. the so-called rite of passage ITSELF involved feeling disgusted.

what i am saying really is if you can get through your whole life without having the asexual view of your parents that you had as a child tarnished in any way, you are among the few and the fortunate afaict

lewd and lascivious battery: Teacher charged with having sex with 14-year-old student

And I'm saying that viewing your parents as people with a healthy sexual relationship does not necessarily entail accepting that your dad is going to lust after teenagers all his life because I think that is an embarrassing and shameful way to be and we should not accept it for ourselves in our own lives.

mw, sexualization by mass media isn't the same as acknowledging that people of that age have sexuality of their own.

but... young girls were super-heavily sexualized (in lots of cultures) way prior to mass media

xp

what i am saying really is if you can get through your whole life without having the asexual view of your parents that you had as a child tarnished in any way, you are among the few and the fortunate afaict

I knew I'd told this story on here before

The sexualization of younger and younger women

The sexualization of women happens when it happens and it usually happens pretty young (hello, what does pornography originally mean?) and it's precisely culture and 'civilization' and morality that tends to make people have to wait before shagging like stoats. If a man is a man at 13 in Jewish culture and a mere girl can be married at (to me) obscenely young ages in arranged marriage cultures where the consummation happens at 12 or 13 or 14; in a world where life expectancy was in the 40's or 50's until fairly recently, the current re-sexualization of adolescents is just reverting to the human id, albeit for other id reasons like money (status) or greed.

Is that whole story I've heard about the origin of women shaving their legs generally true?

Yeah, shakes, but those cultures were quite likely fucked up? Like, those young women were valued by older and more powerful men for their virginity, their fertility, the fact that as soon as they got married off at age 15, women had 29 kids and aged 20 years prematurely until they died in childbirth? Whatevs, they didn't exactly get the awesome end of the stick. So I don't see why examples like that should be aspirational?

Yeah, shakes, but those cultures were quite likely fucked up?

writing off an awfully huge swathe of civilization here

most of civilization has been pretty fucked up, in retrospect

And I'm saying that viewing your parents as people with a healthy sexual relationship does not necessarily entail accepting that your dad is going to lust after teenagers all his life because I think that is an embarrassing and shameful way to be and we should not accept it for ourselves in our own lives.

― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:49 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok i'm not gonna keep stopping you from making these huge leaps of logic from what i said onto what you think i'm saying so have fun with that

Also, something I have never, ever got; why is the fact that your parents are fucking so gross to people? Do you really live in such an artifically antiseptic world that you would wish upon your parents that they become eunuchs? Did you never see happy lovers as a kid? Never see horses or butterflies rutting? Never wonder at the driven resiliance of salmon swimming upstream to spawn and die?

I just...don't get it and I never have.

mw you are talking about having a personal sexuality. This thread is specif about inappropriately older men having sex with or wanting to have sex with really young women. If you want to argue that you think it's awesome that you can fantasize about fucking teenagers and you feel good about being that guy, obviously that's up to you.

hmm I just don't want to think about my dad's penis, I guess, why is that complicated

i don't think pointing out how these relationships could've been, might've been normative in totally different history/context/culture/experience has any bearing on how they occur in our culture where they're certainly not normative. did we invent the idea of childhood (and later teenagehood) fairly recently in human history? yes. but now that they're been invented, it's not like they're just made-up nonsense. partially they were invented bc they were needed. just bc children were forced to labor throughout human history doesn't mean we should do it now.

reallllllly wary of any arguments that want to discuss this issue in terms of "biology" or "humanity's id" or "what other cultures have done in the past"

Also, something I have never, ever got; why is the fact that your parents are fucking so gross to people? Do you really live in such an artifically antiseptic world that you would wish upon your parents that they become eunuchs? Did you never see happy lovers as a kid? Never see horses or butterflies rutting? Never wonder at the driven resiliance of salmon swimming upstream to spawn and die?

I just...don't get it and I never have.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:55 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Complete guess, but possibly a natural thing to stop you from wanting to fuck them yourself and thus create an inbred and unhealthy population? No idea whether that's true, though.

just bc children were forced to labor throughout human history doesn't mean we should do it now.

right obviously I'm not saying it's good or anything. but it's also not an aberration.

why is the fact that your parents are fucking so gross to people? Do you really live in such an artifically antiseptic world that you would wish upon your parents that they become eunuchs?

I'm not taking this as having been directed at me, but just in case: I said I think this is healthy! Just temporarily uncomfortable for you as a kid/teen.

This thread is specif about inappropriately older men having sex with or wanting to have sex with really young women. If you want to argue that you think it's awesome that you can fantasize about fucking teenagers and you feel good about being that guy, obviously that's up to you.

uh, pretty big difference between fantasizing about and actually doing something.

well, it's an aberration by contemporary standards. it's an aberration to stone homosexuals, but during most of history it was legit. our ethical expectations have changed. xxp

Laurel's "at younger and younger ages" implies that it's some deviation from the norm... but the norm, broadly speaking, has been pretty fucked up historically!

xp

Laurel, what we aspire to is very, very often not our biological past and eyeing beautiful women neither negates a healthy sexual relationship nor is it particularly shameful or even embarrassing (as long you're discreet).

- acquaintance who once complained to me about how "hard" it is to be a hs teacher because of the preponderance of hot young chix

― be scientific, douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier)

as a working teacher, i find this really f'd up and i find this really hard to understand ... no matter what they look like - and i have met many who look like more or less like adult women - teenage girls are still teenagers: obnoxious, childish, irresponsible, naive, selfish, etc ...

i really think you would have to

-- enjoy and seek out these personality traits (hard to believe)
-- only think about physical qualities (easier to believe)
-- have something wrong with you

to be attracted to a teenage girl

reallllllly wary of any arguments that want to discuss this issue in terms of "biology" or "humanity's id" or "what other cultures have done in the past"

This is perfectly healthy but I'm even more wary of arguments that don't. By all means kick a theory in the nuts if you think it makes baseless assumptions based on prejudice or self-interest or bias but at least come up with a theory?

I grew up in the country and I never saw horses or butterflies rutting as a child. How would you even know the butterflies were rutting?

obnoxious, childish, irresponsible, naive, selfish, etc ...

are you talking about one of my exes?

they stick together xp

You know, aerosmith and I agreed on some thread about a similar topic a long time ago (now that I think about it, it was prob the "look at the azz on that one" thread) and the crux of it was that I think people should rule their thoughts more--it's not like the fact that a thought CAN occur to you means that you should indulge it and take to an extreme just because it doesn't "hurt" anyone. Or that thoughts are free from any moral compass being applied just because there hasn't been an action taken at that time.

I mean I aspire to cause physical agony to a lot of people, every day. It's not like that anger and violence is free of consequences for me, personally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs

if it's any consolation that hs teacher I was posting about is now blind, so his job's probably gotten "easier" lol

xp

Laurel otm. Although to be honest, I don't think I've wanted to harm anyone for years and years

im not sure what kind of "theory" im supposed to come up with here? i can barely parse this argument, tbh, im just noting that appeals to nature or appeals to the past arent particularly convincing

I think people should rule their thoughts more--it's not like the fact that a thought CAN occur to you means that you should indulge it and take to an extreme just because it doesn't "hurt" anyone. Or that thoughts are free from any moral compass being applied just because there hasn't been an action taken at that time.

Excellent point. Unproductive thoughts are as bad as unproductive actions. Any rational agent must be a merciless with self-criticism and control.

"This tenure business seems to create a lot of tension."
"You must have the same thing in England?"
"Oh no. Probation is more or less a formality. In practise, once you're appointed they can never get rid of you -- unless you seduce one of your students, or something equally scandalous." Philip laughed.
"You can screw as many students as you like here," said Ringbaum unsmilingly. "But if your publications are unsatisfactory..." He drew a finger expressively across his throat.

I mean I aspire to cause physical agony to a lot of people, every day.

I think I remember that thread and my point remains; as long as you're not beating nor killing people why should you beat up on yourslef for having thoughts? Did you plan them? Did you mean to? If not, loathing such thoughts is as pointless as hating your body or resenting gravity.

i don't see anything particularly "aberrant" about sexually mature people of any age desiring sexually mature people of any age. sexual maturity being something that's attained during puberty.

otoh, i understand why contemporary societies have established a protective cordon around youth. with that in mind, so long as all parties are of legal age and consenting (and so long as there isn't implied coercion of the type that seems likely to be present in student-teacher pairings), i have no problem with age disparities in relationships, or with appropriately discreet intergenerational ogling.

we can rehash the whole "ass on that one" thread if need be, but, no, i don't agree with that at all (xp to m. white)

gravity has no moral content.

do thoughts have no relationship to actions? loathing those kinds of thoughts is how you short circuit their impact on actual real life actions

veering wildly off topic I fear but for anecdote's sake: my Mum hated the sight of my Dad through most of my later childhood/teen years, so in a lot of ways I wish I had evidence of some kind of intimacy between them. Not to see it or anything weird, but just, I dunno, it might have given me some hope. And that was kind of why I grew up accepting Dad's covert porn stash. And my saddest memory of that period of time was during the height of Mum's hatred for Dad, I went to sneak a peek in Dad's regular porn hiding place and found a typewritten note from my Mum that said in bold letters FUCK YOU ASSHOLE. By then they were sleeping in separate beds, she was barely talking to him...I felt the full weight of his humiliation. I was never more sad for my Dad then than on that day. (by some weird miracle they stayed together and things are much better now...but that was a weird fucking time.)

Yay oversharing, sorry.

wheres contenderizer

I'm not as comfortable both for the particular nor for society with repression as some ppl seem to be - emotions and desires will find their way out, either sublimated or perverted and often with disastrously worse consequences than the whatever ill the original repression was meant to deal with.

you're begging the question.

kinda on M. White's side here re: the thought police

also omg Veg that story you are bumming me out

no one can police your thoughts. that technology does not yet exist.

iirc shakey was also anti-thought police in the ass thread

I don't remember that thread at all but probably

hi max!

i'm with michael white on the thoughts business, no surprise. have discussed this elsewhere on ilx (did you see that ass on that thread). all thoughts and desires are subject only the judgment of the person experiencing them. that is, if you're okay with your desires, then they're okay. period, no matter what. it's only when we act on our thoughts and desires, when we move them from within to without, that they become subject to other forms of judgment. this is a pragmatic stance more than a moral one.

and yeah, i understand that even "secret" thoughts can influence us, the line between thought and action is fuzzy, even so...

gravity has no moral content.

Huh? I mean in the context of something you can't really do anything about. You will want to sleep. You will need to relieve yourself. You will want to sleep. There's a very good chance that some ppl will feel strong sexual attraction.

There's a difference between sublimating a desire and just being mature enough in your life that you can acknowledge that someone made you angry or that some girl is attractive without lingering on it the entire day.

I'm a little biased in that (while undiagnosed, warnings apply) I have the tendency to fixate on something that bothers me or stimulates me emotionally and turn it over in my head all day. Learning not to fixate on things and to gain the ability to evaluate and dismiss thoughts is useful.

that technology does not yet exist.

I'm sure banaka's workin on it

there's a difference between thought police and acknowledging what thoughts are worth continuing on

i too am anti thought police, i believe in thought self-deportation

you're begging the question.

I'm actually rejecting the question

I'm not as comfortable both for the particular nor for society with repression as some ppl seem to be - emotions and desires will find their way out, either sublimated or perverted and often with disastrously worse consequences than the whatever ill the original repression was meant to deal with.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there are some recent studies at least in the narrow case of anger and aggression that are counter to this. instead of "letting off steam," and becoming calmer in time, people who exhibited greater anger just got habituated to it and were more pissed and aggressive generally. people who "bottled it up" were generally better able to handle anger and were less angry overall.

i can look for the writeups but that's what i remember. i don't see why this kind of conclusion can't be generalizable.

Like if you want to have a quick sexual fantasy that you're having an encounter with a high school student as a thought experiment, go for it. But if that's all you ever fantasize about, I'm not going to say that there will be repercussions, but it really doesn't seem in your best interests.

I was going to cite what goole just did, but he's beat me to it

oh good contenderizer is here now we just need harbl and horseshoe and we can redo the ass thread

"working out instead of repressing" can actually be "developing this idea instead of letting it drop"

hey max is there enough material for a gawker post here yet

xpost

there is a false dichotomy here between "expressing" and "bottling up" ... what about processing your thoughts?

thoughts can make people really miserable. or they can make people start hilary duff webrings. or they can be shrugged off. there are three kinds of thought.

you are actually begging the question bc your argument is 'if you repress your thoughts, they'll come out in another way.'

I can't remember, does Banaka post under multiple usernames?

i reject that not dwelling on particular thoughts is 'repression,' let alone that they have some kind of weight that must come out if you don't give them enough brain time.

max is onto something there, actually. I'm not supporting some obsessive pov, I'm just saying if you think a young lady, far too young for you, is beautiful, acknowledge it, be happy there are pretty ladies in your world and go about your business. To do otherwise may actually increase your chances of finding yourself shacked up with an immature lady with whom you're not all that compatible, certainly not generationally speaking, out of your teaching job, ostracized by your family and friends and possibly looking at jail time.

"may actually increase your chances"

yeah, i reject that.

oh good contenderizer is here now we just need harbl and horseshoe and we can redo the ass thread

― max, Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

hey, you assed, i delivered

'if you repress your thoughts, they'll come out in another way.'

I'm curious about goole's study but in my case, the above is what I have experienced in my own life. Results may vary in other models

To do otherwise may actually increase your chances of finding yourself shacked up with an immature lady with whom you're not all that compatible, certainly not generationally speaking, out of your teaching job, ostracized by your family and friends and possibly looking at jail time.

― Morning becomes apopleptic (Michael White), Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:26 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

"do otherwise" means "buy cocaine", right?

Whatever, I'm a shameless but harmless old lecher and it's one of the things that I love about Paris; everbody looks and expects to be looked at. I think this may have something to do with their sartorial excellence.

In your case you're not dwelling on it, though, you're having the thought and moving on. I think what we were getting at is there is no "repression" per se, unless you're chastising yourself for the thought -- and that still isn't repression, it's dwelling on the subject in a negative manner.

I've had all kinds of stupid shit pop into my head and have discovered no ill effects from ignoring it. Brains are stupid shit producers a good part of the time and it's a bad idea IMHO to start fetishizing that shit as important.

there is a great bunuel quote where he talks about dreams and how he doesn't care what they mean and then says something like * so i fuck my mother, big deal, it's a dream! * or something like that. he really loved being asleep.

this is where mind panties are helpful

So what I mean, is why are you dismissing/repressing these thoughts, Michael White? Stop sublimating them and start concentrating on the beauty of these women.

Dearest contenderizer,

Like I would buy cocaine!

VG, is there some way we could market mind panties? I need to augment my retirement.

eh, even if some old guy builds up a big "schoolgirl" fetish trip in his head, i don't think there's anything wrong or gross about it - so long as it doesn't encourage him into truly inappropriate/illegal/gross interpersonal behavior.

The problem for me, is I can totally understand some dude ogling the girl (though she does look both awfully young and awfully unsexual) but what inner pathology(s) impels him to act on it?

there are some recent studies at least in the narrow case of anger and aggression that are counter to this. instead of "letting off steam," and becoming calmer in time, people who exhibited greater anger just got habituated to it and were more pissed and aggressive generally. people who "bottled it up" were generally better able to handle anger and were less angry overall.

Indeed. Emotional control is crucial to a well-functioning brain.

Indulging in unproductive thoughts is nearly equal to indulging unproductive actions. This is why it is important to be vigilant about not only unproductive thoughts and behavior themselves, but culture that engenders such thought and behavior.

This goes for depictions of reactionary/undesirable behavior in "entertainment" and "pop culture" as well.

Freedom of speech is a figleaf behind which reactionary atavism and oppression reside and consolidate their power. Merciless censorship is crucial in combating this.

and then says something like * so i fuck my mother, big deal, it's a dream! * or something like that. he really loved being asleep.

It's a sign not only of my tenuous mental hygiene but also the influence of ILX that I had to imagine Bunuel dressed as a Viking while he did this.

The problem for me, is I can totally understand some dude ogling the girl (though she does look both awfully young and awfully unsexual) but what inner pathology(s) impels him to act on it?

this is what i was getting at upthread ... teenagers are so vulnerable! and immature! not sexy!

like for me it falls under the same umbrella as a passed-out drunk person. no matter how attractive, i don't think i could get it up for a passed-out girl.

good to know

do you feel the same way, contenderizer? or differently?

not attracted to the unconscious, no. attractiveness of teens varies.

good to know.

how about attracted to the super-conscious? like those whose minds have elevated to another plane? the evolved.

i think that is pretty natural - who hasn't had a crush on some super-competent acquaintance, based on their skill at something?

evolution is gross imo

we had a couple of guys at our dorm who were repeat offenders with passed-out girls, they always got lolsy nicknames like Prince Charming (ie Sleeping Beauty etc) but were ALWAYS dudes who had no ability to interact with women in normal life. crepes to a man

crepey, not crepes.

yeah cuz crepes are delicious

unconscious crepes

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aekgRsEMZpw/TMxgDykE1bI/AAAAAAAABV4/xfuh5zzAZh8/s400/Ghost+crepes.JPG

didn't want to impugn crepes as being in any way crepey

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/24/local/la-me-teacher-arrests-20120224

Over the last three weeks, six Los Angeles Unified School District employees have been booked on suspicion of sex-related crimes, while several others have been pulled from the classroom amid investigations.

But whether more children are being abused or more abusers are being caught is difficult to say. Law enforcement officials stressed that they don't believe that more abuse is occurring. Rather, the Miramonte episode has sparked some people to come forward and others to be more watchful, they say.

"As a community, people are coming together and are hyper-vigilant about any other perpetrators. Everything is now being reported," said Pia Escudero, who directs L.A. Unified's mental health and crisis counseling services.

The district has seen an uptick in allegations of adult sexual misconduct in recent weeks. Counselors have been dispatched to several campuses — including 45 alone at Miramonte, one for every classroom.

Los Angeles Police Capt. Fabian E. Lizarraga, who oversees child sex crime investigations, said the department has seen an increase in allegations of "child annoyance" more than of more serious sexual misconduct.

"These reports say things like a teacher likes to rub my shoulders and sometimes their hands drift or he hugs me too long," he said.

we had a couple of guys at our dorm who were repeat offenders with passed-out girls, they always got lolsy nicknames like Prince Charming

repeat offenders as in they tried to interact with them and failed? this sounds pretty rapey

feel like the LA thing is a whole separate thread tbh

just a lonely teacher thinkin harmlessly about things

xpost repeat offender as in had made out with more than one passed out girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPzIFzORTdM

the miramonte thing is a completely separate thing but from what I've seen about most of the other cases they're in line w/ this thread

The overwhelming media coverage after the arrest of Miramonte teacher Mark Berndt for allegedly spoon-feeding his semen to blindfolded children.

this scenario seems really improbable to me, like McMartin preschool/"Satanic Panic" level improbable but I dunno maybe they have him on tape or something

xp

xpost re repeat offenders I only knew by hearsay, and I'm not entirely sure of how far the 'making out' progressed' etc. but still YUK

that isn't even close to the creepiest Dennis Wilson song, unfortunately

xp

The overwhelming media coverage after the arrest of Miramonte teacher Mark Berndt for allegedly spoon-feeding his semen to blindfolded children.

this scenario seems really improbable to me, like McMartin preschool/"Satanic Panic" level improbable but I dunno maybe they have him on tape or something

xp

― be scientific, douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you don't know abt this case, then what is crazier is that there was another teacher caught in the school for similar behavior a week or two after, and the cops were trying to determine if the two talked or knew each other or what, it's just completely insane

yeah that doesn't make it sound any more probable to me tbh

Los Angeles Police Capt. Fabian E. Lizarraga, who oversees child sex crime investigations, said the department has seen an increase in allegations of "child annoyance" more than of more serious sexual misconduct.

"These reports say things like a teacher likes to rub my shoulders and sometimes their hands drift or he hugs me too long," he said.

uhhhh, wtf?!? "sometimes their hands drift" = mere "child annoyance"? thank you for taking this shit seriously, captain guy in charge.

they found spoons or w/e iirc I have to read the articles again but I kind of don't want to at all and prob won't, also this is prob not the thread for this particular case

yeah that doesn't make it sound any more probable to me tbh

― be scientific, douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:41 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark

dunno about the second teacher, but the first guy did photograph his activities, yes. that's how he pitched this kind of stuff to the kids, iirc: as "arty"/weird photo shoots.

uh they caught the guy because he was photographing the kids like that and they got the tipoff from the tech who was developing the photos

haha okay wow that's pretty detailed evidence. man.

can we plz talk about this crazy thing some more and not go back to the other kinda-tbh-boring conversation? this is much more riveting imho

the elaborate scheming required to even pull off such a scenario is completely baffling.

also, the fact that he was into this, and the police haven't also found his secret chamber of dead bodies, is totally baffling. surely this is uniquely serial killer behavior?

i've totally been waiting to hear more about that case--it is completely nuts

surely this is uniquely serial killer behavior?

I don't see the connection

yeah i mean it's totally horrifying and disgusting and awful, but why would it be uniquely serial killer behavior?

i was applying a little hyperbole to what i see as bizarrely aberrative behavior

ok fair enough

its just so awful enough on its own, you know?

lol, I wasn't trying to minimize its awfulness. if anything, i was accenting it. like a person who would do such a thing would be similar to a serial killer: possessing of a psychology totally foreign to what i identify as healthy

so so awful

well yeah I kinda assume he has some sort of porn den and a refrigerator filled with jars and uh I dunno photo albums or something

also a chest with a gimp in it

i like you guys so i'm posting this as a link and not just posting the img of him dressed in tights and mickey mouse ears: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104509/Pictured-Mark-Berndt-teacher-photographed-students-bondage-positions-semen-laced-cookies-cockroaches-faces-pleads-guilty.html

"We are no longer accepting comments on this article."

okay that dude TOTALLY has a pedo porn basement yeesh

god that picture why did i even bother

I'll just call it right now: that guy is going to be murdered in prison

Seems more like a really, really displaced fetish than a full on serial killer behaviour. And some kind of pathological fascination with discomfort. And there's something so pathetically awkward about his scenarios. He def reads as a suuuuuper-sexually dysfunctional dude.

eh they'll put him in "high risk" solitary w/ suicide watch

i remember a story from a few years back about a pediatrician who had a secret basement where he would torture/rape/film kids. in the u.s., i think. i never heard anything more about it, but it sounded like the most horrifying thing on earth. he did this during check-ups and stuff. i hate even remembering it.

you know, we watched the first swedish installment of the butterfly girl movies and i don't even want to watch the other two now. my serial killer movie days are kinda over i think. makes me too freaked out. mindless senseless action violence i can take. i don't want to know any more about the minds of deranged people.

I have periods of time where I'll kinda geek out on true crime books for a while, but I usually have to decompress for like, months afterwards because that world is so soul-deadening

BTW his lawyer has already accused LAPD of conspiring to make that happen by telling other prisoners what he's accused of

banaka owns

that is not possible, as we do not believe in property

lol

okay, this is that guy. i just had to check. don't read this if you can't take stuff like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-indicted-103-counts-sexual/story?id=9921990

kinda wondering about a kickstarter fund to pay someone to murder him in prison.

and that's just one guy...11 years of torture...ugh.

oh jesus christ that is horrific

i didn't know this:

"Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden, son of American Vice President of the United States Joseph Biden, announced in a January 2010 speech that he would not seek election to his father’s former seat in the United States Senate because he felt it was more important to fully pursue Bradley’s prosecution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Bradley

first accusation against him was in 1994. then several other complaints over a period of years. finally arrested in 2009.

I still find it deeply unfathomable that there are human beings out there that actively do things like this. It... I just cant process it.

and just... this fucking piece of shit...like there's families that are finding out that their kid was abused, and going through all those horrible cycles of blaming themselves for not doing more and... ugh I just get so angry thinking of all the families that are just so completely decimiated by this, and all those kids...

Last year, Jordan Powers was just another student from Mr. Hooker's class. Now she's his live-in girlfriend.

James Hooker -- the 41-year-old married father who left his wife and kids for his 18-year-old-student -- might be the worst teacher ever. Last week, he resigned from his job at Enochs High School in Modesto, California over the scandal that's shaken up a community and pit one mom on a crusade to save her daughter from a man she calls a "master manipulator."

Jordan met her teacher as a freshman, but both maintain nothing physical happened until she turned 18 this past September. Hooker claims he saw Powers as "just a student" and had no romantic feelings toward her at first, but when her most recent birthday came around, things changed.

They changed so much, in fact, that Hooker, left his wife and three kids (one of them a 17-year-old Enochs high school student as well) so that he could move in with Jordan.

If this all sounds suspicious to you, imagine how Tammie Powers, Jordan's mom, feels. She's launched an official police investigation to find out if Hooker's relationship with her daughter began before Jordan was of legal age. Tammie is convinced it did, citing a photo of her daughter on Hooker's lap and text messages, emails and phone records exchanged between the couple that predate her daughter's 18th birthday.

"That's pursuit, in my opinion, with some type of intent," she told ABC News 10 in California.

Hooker denies Tammie's claims and is confident the investigation will turn up nothing. He blames the "stigma of the teacher-student relationship" for the public backlash. But Hooker's former boss, Modesto City Schools Supt. Pam Able, doesn't agree.

Even if their relationship doesn't break any laws, Able says she "considers student-teacher dating relationships to be not only unprofessional, but immoral." She also added in an email to the Modesto Bee, that Hooker's relationship has become a "source of great concern for staff, students and parents."

It must be particularly hard for Hooker's 17 year old daughter, now that her father has left to be with a fellow classmate and become a notorious figure throughout the school.

Still, Hooker claims he has no regrets. In an interview with Good Morning America, he shut down Tammie's accusations as a "pack of lies" and said of his new love, "we really do want to have a future together."

Jordan, a quiet, fragile-seeming young woman, who looks closer to 15 than 18 years in age, gazed up at her former teacher, a man that looks every bit his 41 years, and said, "He's more than just a lover."

Jordan has now stopped going to classes and is finishing out her senior year by doing an independent study. She has limited contact with her mom, now that she's living with her teacher, mom's worst nightmare.

Desperate for her child, Tammie has turned her own Facebook page into a "most wanted" profile for Hooker. She's plastered his photo all over her wall warning neighbors about the man she calls an "arrogant pig". She's also made her wallpaper a photo of a prison cell, sending a message to Hooker should he dare visit her site.

Since the story has been picked up by national press, she's been flooded with messages of support from strangers. Tonight, she'll be taking her crusade against Hooker to Nancy Grace. "Nancy's always been a victims advocate and fights for justice," Tammie wrote on Facebook. "That's the goal here, justice."

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/eNXiKI0flG69ifNppVzQjg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/blogs/partner/470_2270136.0

NANCY GRACE

drudgesiren.gif

well this guy's going to have to go into hiding now that nancy grace is on the case

she looks more like an "adult" in that photo but he still looks like a perv

Jordan, a quiet, fragile-seeming young woman, who looks closer to 15 than 18 years in age, gazed up at her former teacher, a man that looks every bit his 41 years, and said, "He's more than just a lover."

*vomit*

more than a touch of CYE in that pic

i think nancy grace is going to be otm for once.

Hooker claims he saw Powers as "just a student" and had no romantic feelings toward her at first, but when her most recent birthday came around, things changed.

what a coinkidink~~

at the stroke of midnight, cupid struck.

stuck by another's cupid

...why did i make that horribly formed joke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdSfI2HERo

"there are hotel receipts ppl, what do you think they did? homework?!"

i love how they brought this guy in to argue with nancy grace and he keeps trying to argue with her but there's so little room for disagreement that he just keeps repeating her in an argumentative voice.

"business" teacher

goddamn, kinda late to this but,
me: male 20s HS teacher and this shit sends me up a wall for reasons laid out by all yall, but when an adult abuses his position of authority to pursue a sexual relationship, it jeopardizes the trust in all teachers, particularly male, that students have.

i'm the coordinator for academic competitions for my school which means the other math/debate/writing/etc coaches and i spend time with students that's much less structured and impersonal than a trad classroom. i can't imagine being a parent and sending my child to this setting and having in the back of my mind "is one of these dudes a wolf in sheep's clothing?"

Yeah now I think about it when I was in final year of high school, our small advanced english class (about 8 ppl, all girls iirc?) would sometyimes have to go to our teachers HOUSE in the morning before school to fit in some extra hours of work. It was all 100% above board, absolutely, but it amazes me now to think it was ok.

it's funny you mention that but what makes it okay is the seven other girls - i will just absolutely not see one or other student w/o another student or teacher around because it's a huge red flag

not sure where that "or" came from

ditto "other"

90% of high schoolers on tv +movies are played by very sexually desirable 20-something year olds

Yeah, this weirds me out too. The cast of Glee look older than the university students I teach. (Cory Monteith is just three years younger than I am.) (And so the girl in the photo doesn't look for her age to me at all.) But... if every man really does want to have sex with teenage girls as per the sketch referenced above, why would this be the case? Wouldn't actual teenage actors be hotter?

"doesn't look young for her age to me at all"

it's funny you mention that but what makes it okay is the seven other girls - i will just absolutely not see one or other student w/o another student or teacher around because it's a huge red flag

Thats a very good point yeah.

personally i think she does look young for an 18 yo but your point is OTM

it's because teenagers still have little kid faces, regardless of puberty

I went to kickboxing class and now I feel much better! Just one thing:

repeat offenders I only knew by hearsay, and I'm not entirely sure of how far the 'making out' progressed' etc. but still YUK

I'm glad you used quotes there, vg, because this isn't making out, it's sexual assault.

so glad Nancy Grace is involved now

high schoolers on tv +movies are played by very sexually desirable 20-something year olds

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Sh8wZMrbRs/TaL78I0EYPI/AAAAAAAAAi0/LwamD74PPaU/s1600/andrea1.jpg

xxpost to Laurel: yep. I only knew of one girl who came forward...the offending student was removed from the dorm, and if memory serves the girl did make efforts to press charges against him.

it's funny you mention that but what makes it okay is the seven other girls - i will just absolutely not see one or other student w/o another student or teacher around because it's a huge red flag

― the late great, Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:35 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, it's a sad product of the age we live in, but i'm beginning to be of the opinion that adults should pretty much never be allowed unsupervised one-on-one time w other people's kids. not saying that there should be a law against it or w/e, but if i had kids, i'd be extremely careful abt such situations.

pretty stupid age we live in then

I dunno I'm hard-pressed to think of a time as a kid when I was left one-on-one with a (non-relative) adult with absolutely no one else around. it is sort of unusual.

yeah and as a teacher i can't think of any good reason i would be alone with a student in a private setting.

music lessons?

being alone with one of my schoolteachers would be a bit odd tho yeah

What is it with Modesto? Gary Condit's from there, other things I can't remember.

yeah and as a teacher i can't think of any good reason i would be alone with a student in a private setting.

yeah I guess I was definitely alone in the classroom with teachers at various points (detention, etc.)

xp

i was strictly talking about high school teachers.

nowadays you leave the door open in those situations and you organize to have more than one kid doing detention together. it's a little bit of extra work to organize but actually more efficient than dealing with everyone in a truly "one on one" way.

at my school all the doors and walls are glass so everybody in the halls can see into every classroom, so even when i'm working with one student at a time it's not "private".

yeah that was def the case at my schools - classroom doors were open, windows all around

Yeah if any of my friend or I had to stay behind after class, the teacher was usually cool with leting my friends stand by the door or at the back of the classroom to wait, I don't remember very many one-on-one closed door situations.

We did have a couple of rumored pervy/creepy teachers...I always wondered how true those rumors were.

probably very

yeah, probably true, unfortunately there seems to be at least one at every school ... we had an aide dude who was in college (i think he was 21) get fired last year for arranging to meet up w/ a 10th grade student at an all-ages show ... so, so sketchy.

I can name at least three teachers who either was convicted of molestation or ran off with their 18-year-old former student.

it's such a fine line

anyway i can think of one from my school, and one marriage from my college. college is entirely another story tho, not least for the legal reasons

My parents were both teachers. One of their fellow teachers - a guy who was around my age (late 20s/early 30s at the time) – would drive the 75 miles down to Little Rock to sit with my parents and watch my little (then-junior high) sister ice skate.

They thought nothing of it, but I constantly repeated to them my suspicions of a single dude that age making four-hour road trips to watch a 13-year-old ice skate.

Nothing ever happened that I heard about except that his contract wasn't renewed after he failed to show up a few mornings because he was too hungover.

one of our science teachers had a wall of photographs of female students in his office, and his favored female student in my class used to arm herself with at least two male students for company when she had to go in for extra help. it is insane to me that that dude didn't get fired. it was a private school with a very insular culture, but still.

ime while things can definitely get blown out of proportion, the student rumor-mill tended not to fabricate these kinds of accusations out of whole cloth - when these kinds of questions arose it was usually one of two scenarios. 1) teacher actually DID do something questionable/unethical/pervy and the victim whispered about it to someone else and the rumors spread among the student populace from there ,or 2) "Satanic Panic" syndrome and the students were led to invent stuff based on the paranoid prodding of authority figures (cops, parents, etc.)

xp

now that I think about it, we used to joke that our 10th grade math teacher paid extra attention to one girl cause she would wear shirts that showed cleavage. I didn't think too much of it at the time, but...

one rumored-pervy teacher was the Dad of a girl in my class. he was our Music teacher in 7th grade. There were rumors of him feeling up girls and keeping them after class and also of him perving on girls in locker rooms? Which doesn't make sense to me now because he was never anywhere near the gym but whatever. On my first day of school I was told by an older girl to always be first out the door when the bell rings, don't give him any excuse to keep you after class which totally made me O_O, I avoided him like the plague.

the other pervy teacher was a history/english teacher, he mostly taught the senior classes. The rumor was that he had holes in his pockets so that he could play with himself in class, and that he was into child porn. I vaguely remember some apocryphal stories of him either bringing in explicit sex stories to a class or giving one to a student to take home. He gave off super creepy vibes, I did not like being around him at all.

My friend's wife always complains because she participated in pretty much every choir opportunity in high school, her parents were always key in the fundraising efforts, and if she runs into the director he never seems to remember her. He always remembers her gay male friend who was also in choir, though!

Said choir director came out of the closet at some point, got divorced, etc. sometime after she was in high school.

I have, multiple times, told the story of how my Spanish teacher asked me out after I transferred out of his class. That was just weird.

como estas?

I had a friend/frat bro in college who was constantly dumping girlfriends for younger models. He went on to become an HS music teacher, and three years ago he plead guilty to multiple counts of sexual battery & gross sexual imposition for having sex with a 17 year old student. (He was 42.)

One of my HS math teachers was later fired for messing around with cheerleaders when his wife, the cheerleading coach, had the girls at her house for a team sleepover. He wasn't creepy, he was your normal jock dude slightly grown up and married, therefore all the football players and student athletes liked him. An asshole, yes, but in the "normal" range, unfortunately. Come to think of it, though, there were jokes even in my year about him looking at girls in tight pants.

Holy shit Phil

The real punchline is that he was a musical theater major! (j/k)

But yeah, when he was a junior and senior, he dumped like three girlfriends to hook up with the latest freshman ingenues in the theater department. Also, the school at which his criminal activities happened is an all-girls Catholic school.

theater people and Catholic school, oh my

I had a very pretty friend in HS and every time she asked our Trig teacher to explain something, he would come over and lean over her shoulder ostensibly so they were both looking at the same page. It wasn't a bad posture for glimpsing at boobage, either, as EVERYONE in the class knew 'cause he only ever did that with her.

there is something so depressing about the pattern of behavior leading up to the moment of being hired at a school. it reminds me of that nyrb article a while back about sexual abuse by authorities in juvenile detention systems. iirc the article started out with, "adults who want to have sex with children seek out jobs in schools and juvenile prisons."

I'm happily married, in love with my wife, secure in growing older, but if my wife said "Oh, by the way Honey, I'm inviting the cheerleading squad over to our house for a sleepover this weekend," my reply would likely be something along the lines of "That sounds great. If you need anything, I'll be in Tunica County, Mississippi."

little do you know... this weekend, tunica county is hosting the largest cheerleading convention in the country

Here he is playing George Gould Strong in "Grey Gardens" and also his mug shot.

http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/42990/tn-500_grey2.jpg

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/patrick-janson---mug-shot-1jpg-11be96e48f0e0ae5_small.jpg

omg

When I taught SAT prep (in my 20s) there were certainly times I found high school students attractive. Acting on it was just so completely out of the question though -- the idea was as remote as a sexual fantasy set on the moon.

the idea was as remote as a sexual fantasy set on the moon.

cue Revenge of the Nerds clip

Low gravity sex. Excellent!

one small boner for man

After years of rumor and reports by band kids (I was a choir dork), my high school band director (and leader of the creepy culty marching band) finally got caught in the act a year or two back. The student had just turned 18 so all he got was fired.

We had a case here of a local teacher who had been drugging and taking sexually explicit photos of girls that came over to his house for sleepovers with his daughter.I believe that he molested quite a few of the girls as well. One of the girls was the daughter of one of our closest friends...it still freaks me out that it could have happened to her. So awful. This is the only active link I could find to the story:
http://www.kcra.com/news/3511974/detail.html

this is the opening of the nyrb article:

Adults who want to have sex with children sometimes look for jobs that will make it easy. They want authority over kids, but no very onerous supervision; they also want positions that will make them seem more trustworthy than their potential accusers. Such considerations have infamously led quite a few pedophiles to sully the priesthood over the years, but the priesthood isn’t for everyone. For some people, moral authority comes less naturally than blunter, more violent kinds.

Ray Brookins worked for the Texas Youth Commission (TYC), the state’s juvenile detention agency. In October 2003, he was hired as head of security at the West Texas State School in Pyote. Like most TYC facilities, it’s a remote place. The land is flat to the horizon, scattered with slowly bobbing oil derricks, and always windy. It’s a long way from the families of most kids confined there, who tend to be urban and poor; a long way from any social services, or even the police. It must have seemed perfect to Brookins—and also to John Paul Hernandez, who was hired as the school’s principal around the same time. Almost immediately, Brookins started pulling students out of their dorms at night, long after curfew, and bringing them to the administration building. When asked why, he said it was for cleaning.

so, are there any ilxors who didn't encounter a student-molesting teacher in hs?

I don't recall any at my high school.

I would like to point out that my Spanish teacher, to my knowledge, never molested anyone or acted inappropriately with anyone who was a current student of his; I had also just turned 18 when he asked me if I wanted to get coffee sometime (I believe he was 24 at the time). So, while I definitely would call him inappropriate, I would not call him "student-molesting".

There was a math teacher in my HS who I'm pretty sure had a relationship with a 17-year-old student. I didn't really know the teacher or the student but it was something talked about and the teacher wound up leaving, so it was probably true.

Also I had a male music teacher start rubbing my shoulders in a very suggestive way and speaking to me in a hushed tone once.

It was actually a surprisingly scarring experience, although I got over it later.

Ditto with the English teacher who married his daughter's best friend; she was well out of college when that all happened.

I never knew the teacher who slept with a 15-year-old student and then claimed she had a brain tumor to deflect attention away from those allegations when people started getting suspicious.

There was also the time when one my friends happened to catch the school librarian making out with one of the English teachers in a bathroom stall but no students were involved in that. (I'm also not 100% sure it was the librarian; I do remember that one of the guys was my soccer coach.)

None at my HS.

I think the takeaway is that all schools should be burned to the ground

I've been saying that since second grade.

A coach at my hs was caught at home with a student by his wife. Fired, divorced, moved in with student...but not before the yearbooks had been printed. When they were distributed a few months later, one of the candid photos was of the coach and the student.

I had several attractive young female teachers throughout my adolescence who I could tell were totally into me, would've acted on it if we'd met under different circumstances

there were plenty of rumours and allegations about teachers among the kids at our school; none of those were actually true, it was just targeting the more eccentric-looking teachers (eg our scary latin teacher who was also the school chaplain who invariably had food stuck in his huge beard and who once scandalised parents by preaching at the school carol service that calling mary a virgin was offensive to all mothers) (in retrospect he was kind of awesome).

the two genuinely creepy teachers: 1x religious education teacher who was convicted of telephone stalking a woman (not a pupil) and left the school after that. and! the young, fit and v popular outdoor activities teacher who was also an assistant housemaster (and therefore lived on school property - with his wife and three small children) who turned out to be shagging one of the prefects in our year (we were in 6th form so i guess she'd have been 17/18). there were news crews and everything stalking the school trying to get quotes out of us, it was tremendously exciting. the teacher was instantly sacked and the prefect expelled but the prefect's ex-BFF sold her story to the tabloids because she was the kind of girl who really didn't give a fuck.

I don't think I understand more than 50% of the terms you used in that post

i once overheard one of our english teachers telling one of my classmates he was one of the best looking boys in our year (he must have been 15/16) - i didn't think this was creepy at all at the time, maybe because she was so brisk and no-nonsense despite being young and pretty herself? also because damn, she was correct on that front

I don't think I understand more than 50% of the terms you used in that post

i actually tried to make it intelligible to americans, lol

prefect = a few favoured pupils selected from each house who get extra official duties and privileges? idk exactly what they did, i wasn't one. kind of like deputies to the head boy and head girl

who once scandalised parents by preaching at the school carol service that calling mary a virgin was offensive to all mothers

Brilliant

None at our school.

head boy? head girl?

religious education?

(j/k)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Girl_and_Head_Boy

so... standard british class system nonsense

My neighbor, a HS teacher and coach, was arrested and spent time in jail for having had a sexual relationship with one his students.

i should clarify for my conscience's sake that the teacher i'm thinking of was accused of something involving a kid, not involving one of his students. we found out about it only through rumors after he had been suddenly removed. i have no idea if he was ever charged, let alone guilty. it is a possibility that it was all a mistake and his professional life was wrecked. i always kind of like the guy, he was not a popular teacher. it's a sad and sick thing whatever the truth of the matter was.

there was a slightly different and very class-based kind of thing at my HS, where a former star athlete dude there was about to graduate from college and got together with a v popular and athletic girl, when we were i think seniors in HS, so she was probably 18. they had obv known each other for much longer. pretty sure he came to prom and everyone thought it was just wonderful.

cue much grumbling from kids lower down the social totem pole for whom bringing their 22 year old BF to prom would not be met with much fairytale approval.

i lived in a vv small town which had communities on two sides of a lake with two different school districts. in the district across the lake, the principal and asst principal were busted for child molestation at the elementary school. i always wonder about shit like that, b/c like...how the hell did they ever team up? ugh. anyway, it sounded pretty terrible, to have the two biggest authority figures in a school doing that. those poor kids.

i lived in a vv small town which had communities on two sides of a lake with two different school districts.

Are you me??

was your town kind of terribly conservative and ass backwards?

if so, yes i am you~

BREAKING NEWS

yeah the thing goole brings up is a tough call ... like, we have seniors that are dating sophomores ... they go to college, and stay involved. suddenly, they're coming back for prom.

so you have a 19 y/o man-child going to prom with a 16 y/o girl. is this okay? it's a question we've struggled with!

My best friend was dating a 30 year old dude when she was 18...and I don't remember thinking it was weird until a lot later.

When she was in HS, I mean

there was a lot of stuff in HS that seemed normal at the time that retrospectively looks a little "off"...i knew juniors in HS who were hooking up w/8th graders.

o_O

how old is a 'Junior'? I still get confused with US high school terminology

Junior = 16-17
eighth grade = 13-14

my lake had four sides.

ty

there was a lot of stuff in HS that seemed normal at the time that retrospectively looks a little "off"...i knew juniors in HS who were hooking up w/8th graders.

― omar little, Friday, March 2, 2012 2:20 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think to some degree almost everyone has a bit of an ~~~age ain't nothin but a number baby~~~ mentality until they hit 18, if not later

this is sort of a no-brainer but people under 18 are not very good judges of what is normal or appropriate, hence things like voting age, drinking age, age of consent, etc

went to two different high schools and there were crepey teachers at both. The one at the first school was eventually arrested after we'd moved to school #2. At the second one, the teacher was fired for an "unrelated" reason (though I later wondered about that; he was pretty brazen). That guy was very popular with the students--he was "cool" and very politically liberal for a high school in Georgia--and they rallied around him as a kind of free speech martyr, assuming the administration canned him for being too much of a rebel.

xpost i mean obv the same goes for people over 18 too but for teenagers its basically a rule of thumb that if you don't give them *explicit* advice on what is appropriate/safe you might as well tell them to flip a coin.

when i was 16/17/18 it didn't seem odd at all that some of my peers were dating older dudes. when i was 22+ myself it seemed super-odd that any of my peers would do that (like beyond randomly hooking up w/someone at a club or sth)

i think when i was of HS age it seemed normal to know peers who were dating someone in their early twenties but once i hit early twenties and knew dudes who did that they were always regarded as being a little creepy by *their* peers.

this is sort of a no-brainer but people under 18 are not very good judges of what is normal or appropriate, hence things like voting age, drinking age, age of consent, etc

― the late great, Friday, March 2, 2012 2:25 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is there some kind of weird filter on my posts itt that makes people think i am giving a huge approving thumbs-up to anything i describe?

I think you might be switched to i100percentendorsethisposition.css

I think a lot of people would disagree w/ the voting age and drinking age and even age of consent

I'm for them all being 16. maybe lower for the first two.

you should not be allowed to vote, drink or drive until you have lost your virginity or killed someone

you should get an extra vote and a free car if you have killed someone with your virginity

always aim to combine the two

"you're gonna have to put that six of mickey's back, son, you don't appear to have been turned out to me"

extreme kegeling

voting age, drinking age, age of consent, driving age

was your town kind of terribly conservative and ass backwards?

It's like you've never read a thing I've posted. Which is weird, because you were there being me when it happened.

how are you supposed to lose your virginity if you can't drive a car.

oh yeah, science teacher.

why do you need a car to lose your virginity?

it's true, and people wonder where i get my amazing dancing skills and i can't even explain it b/c it's some 'lost highway' shit

this is america

xp

(frantic search for that 80s snl sketch)

yr highland dancing is A+, Omar/Laurel

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/10/my-strange-addiction-cars_n_1268798.html

why do you need a car to lose your virginity?

― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, March 2, 2012 2:51 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark

nsfw http://dallaspenn.com/pics/albums/album01/tailpipelover.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd1GwV5G5Vo

just the Soup clip of that Strange Addiction car guy was hella weird. Dude fully making out with the bumper of his car while lying underneath it o_O

and it's not like had a hot Buick Grand National or an old Charger or something...it was like a freaking Taurus or a LeSabre or something super lame

"She may not be the girl some/ men think of as pretty
But to my heart, she carries the key."

Andrew WK enthuses abt that dude in the most recent issue of the stranger: "That's an amazing passion to have."

full context:

Have you seen the show about people with fetishes? One is about a guy who's in love with his car. He's fully amorous.

People are capable of having romantic and erotic feelings for automobiles. There's J. G. Ballard's book Crash, and the movie, which explores that to some degree. Although it's not quite as literal as people wanting to have intercourse with the car. That's an amazing passion to have.

There's another episode about a guy who's sexually into balloons. He blows them up and has mini orgasms when they pop. Do you think these people are real or is the show staged? You should see the guy into cars kiss his front bumper like it's a mouth. It was like a Civic hatchback.

I think they're real. Human beings are pretty limitless.

do yourself a favor and never search for balloon fetishists on youtube

lol, thanks for the tip. love awk, but have to admit that his crowleyist embrace of "human potential" in all its manifestations sometimes seems a bit unnerving. suppose that's the point...

andrew wk is such a positivity zombie that i wouldn't be surprised if he's super duper proud of james hooker for following his bliss

Are you me??

― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Friday, March 2, 2012 1:10 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

was your town kind of terribly conservative and ass backwards?

― omar little, Friday, March 2, 2012 1:13 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Twins!

http://oi40.tinypic.com/fypsa1.jpg

(OK, starting to regret that...)

lol

eye in the sky

had an interesting reverse situation at my junior high. A very attractive female teacher, who was young and dressed young, teaching 7th graders. It was kind of a chaos of hormones. I heard she eventually quit because of constant harassment. (she simply couldn't keep control of her classes and her authority was never taken seriously.) a very crummy situation for her.

my 12th grade english teacher eventually got fired for having a relationship with a student. i think she was 24ish at the time? they ended up continuing the relationship after he graduated and she was fired.

i always was completely creped out by the whole thing, but the weirdest part was seeing her at parties with the dude and having to call her t1ffany or t1ff (shudder) instead of mrs. R

gross

I've had former teachers and one principal attempt to friend me on Facebook. I turn them down because (A) I wasn't really interested in striking up any connection with them then, so why would I want to now? and (B) even though I'm now in my late 30s and they're in their late 40s/early 50s, it's still a little skeevy.

To me, at least.

Though my mom posts pictures of her granddaughter (my daughter) and there suddenly appears all of these 14-year-olds coming out of the woodwork to say, "Oh she's so cute Mrs. R!"

Maybe it's a thing now.

My best friend is a teacher and she goes under an assumed name on FB so that her students can't find her. She's already had to change it once.

I had 14 year old girls on my bus ask me if I was on Facebook. I told them no. That was the truth, but even if I were on Facebook, I still would have told them no.

I couldn't think of anything more horrifying than being FB friends with students

being linkedin friends with them...

i know at least one teacher and one principal who got fired after students found photos of them partying on facebook and showed their parents

that is some bullshit.

otoh FB is evil so you get what you deserve I guess

partying is a fireable offense, though?

if parents get upset enough, you will be fired, doesn't matter what it's about.

^^

amen

well, otm, I mean

teacher's unions power must be waning if they can't even fight for your right to party.

I'm FB friends with a few of my H.S. teachers.

the argument from the school's point of view is that it can lead to changes in how the students view you as an individual, to the point where it becomes a substantial distraction to learning, undermines your authority (pedagogical and ethical) in the classroom, undermines other people's trust in you, etc

to get around the work/non-work distinction and teacher's unions what they usually do is transfer you to a different school and give you an administrative job. the principal i know was eventually rehired as a teacher at a different site.

speaking of strong teacher's unions, i've heard that in NYC the union is so strong, and the wheels of justice turn so slowly that there's a room full of suspended teachers at each district office who are basically sitting around reading newspapers - while collecting full pay - for months and months while the district looks into whatever allegations caused the suspension. the person who told me the story told me that some of those people have been there for years.

I read an article about that, but I have no idea where it was.

man, la dolce vita

Yeah, there was a story about it in the New Yorker a few years ago. xp

yeah, i had a friend in the rubber room. she was eventually vindicated (her boss hated her & filed a report out of spite) but yeah you have to report to the rubber room every day (there's many sites over the city) like a regular job and just sit there.

It's like teacher detention!

I read an article about that, but I have no idea where it was.

i read mention of that in an article abt a teacher who had done ... something. what was it?

oh, wait, he punched snooki

I guess they're gone in nyc: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html

so... standard british class system nonsense

Ha, we had a head boy and head girl too. It was just the equivalent of the US student council presidency.

she was embarassed about being in the rubber room and anytime we talked about it in public, if i even started to say "ru-" she would go SHHHHHHHHHH and look around to make sure no one heard.

rubber room --- we're not still talking about fucking the students, are we?

There were plenty of rumours/stories about violent teachers at my school (which I think were probably mostly true since I got "assaulted" (physically not sexually) by 2 teachers while I was there, and tbh this wasn't that long after corporal punishment was supposed to have been banned) but none whatsoever about sexual assault. Lots of stories about sexual abuse between older and younger students tho, all in the past though, never witnessed anything like that, I guess that's a lol public school?

A schoolmate of mine, who ended up being valedictorian, started seeing the trig teacher when she was a 10th grader and he was 40ish. He was married, had kids. He also looked every bit older than any 40ish guy I have ever met. I thought he was in his 50s at the time, still think he was like49 at best. Anyway, it was a rumor that I never believed. After graduation I heard they married but blew it off to rumors/jokes. Saw photos from the 20 year reunion and there they were, together, have been together since 1986. He's been retired awhile. They looked super happy.

Then there was another schoolmate who was rumored to be having an affair with the married tennis coach. That rumor was true, they also married the summer after graduation and had a baby very shortly after. He was in his early 30s.

Come to think of it, Del Rio High School was quite the Peyton Place between 1985-1989. Two pregnant girls with substitute teacher fathers. No scandals though, nothing seemed to even make it to the local paper.

!!! aer you the first ilxor from the valley?

my own creep stories...when I was in HS, heard one of our football coaches/gym teachers married a former student like the year she graduated. also the dance team coach apparently boinked some football players, she was married and abt 24 I think? that was a year or so after I graduated tho.

NO! I am not from the valley, Del Rio is NOT in the valley, it is South West Texas. Del Rioans loathe being confused with someone from the valley, haha...

It is just an isolated little pocket across the border from Acuna. Think XER, Wolfman Jack, Amistad Lake, Laughlin AFB and a few ufo sightings now and then.

Cuturally, the valley is soooooo different from Del Rio.

So when asked at parties or bbq's...so, how did you guys meet? In HS.....see I was a student and.....blehk!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850TWNdu_RM

My husband's best friend and former high school teacher slept with several of his female students throughout his teaching career. He was finally fired sometime in the late Eighties when the administration started taking that sort of thing seriously, and he then became a lawyer. He screwed that up somehow, and he's now retired and broke.

Newt and Jackie, his high school geometry teacher and first wife:

http://c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1011912_slideshow.jpg

*barf*

yeah i *barf* anyway every time i see gingrich so this is like *barf*^2

otm

Tera, I will nev make that mistake again

:) teehee

I didn't know about this, I guess it's a couple of years old now but still kinda O_o

Aaron Johnson, british actor from "Nowhere Boy", got engaged to the director of that movie, when he was 19 and she was 41. And she was pregnant with their kid.
And they now have two kids.

http://celebritybabies.people.com/2012/01/25/aaron-johnson-sam-taylor-wood-welcome-daughter-romy-hero/?xid=rss-topheadlines

you don't know how you feel because you don't anything about their relationship!

we know he was 19 and she was 41

I didn't say I didn't know how I feel, I said I'd didn't know it happened

19 - 41 is crazypants, I don't care if they're soulmates or not. I mean, I'm not going to outlaw it but I'll still say its weird.

she did a bunch of interviews around that time iirc going 'yeah, whatever, men do this all the time, get over it' <-- i kind of appreciate her hustle? i have a feeling this is slightly cos there's an element of 'this is sam taylor-wood, the artist, she does what she likes' to the whole deal. even though picking someone up when you're their director is kind of dodgy.

I take her point, but TEEN plus 20 years is never not skeevy, flipping sexes doesn't mean anything. There's no double standard for that, I don't think. Ick is ick.

!!! aer you the first ilxor from the valley?

― q: are we not women? a: we are divas! (m bison), Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:11 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i was born in the valley!!! my dad is on tv there still!!

!! RGV in the hoos

oh god, adding insult to injury, should they engage or marry publicly, it will be listed as HOOKER POWERS

lolll

i'm only weirded out by the fact that people are so weirded out by the relationship. whatever makes them happy is cool w me, and they were clearly both adults at the time. actor + director seems much less creepy to me than high-school kid + teacher, though i'd probably feel differently if he'd been a bit younger when they met.

i'm only weirded out by the fact that people are so weirded out by the relationship.

really?

they were clearly both adults at the time?

oh you mean the brit thing.

eh i feel like the logic of this kind of disapproval is easy to follow

legally speaking 19 is adult.

oh yeah I too thought contend. was referring to the teacher case

The (Brit celebs) having kids thing is the weird part, just practically. She will constantly be confused for grandma. Assuming they stay together, of course, but obviously they will, forever.

oh yeah I too thought contend. was referring to the teacher case

teacher student thing seems much more skeevy, if i may be forgiven the hypocrisy. but time will tell, right? if they're still happy together a decade from now, i'll figure they were right all along. like mary-key and vili (34 & 13!)

http://www.diamondthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mary-latourneau-vili-teacher.jpg

star-cross'd, imo

Since their marriage, Letourneau and Fualaau have hosted three "Hot for Teacher Night" promotions at a Seattle night club with Fualaau serving as the disc jockey and Letourneau as host.

when life gives you lemons, host a theme night

omg lol

would go

wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSbMz_At2_w

lol straight ppl

are we gonna have to do a whole "what do you mean by that" thing or are we just gonna pass over judith being oblique again

neither?

pretty sure judith might be loling that we have a whole thread on what basically boils down to twinks, no?

who tf is judith.

a butler iirc

lol gay ppl

lol ppl posting on the internet using keyboards and typing and words.

lol life itself

one giant LOL made out a million little tiny lols, each themselves composed of...

Damn. I never really dwelled on this but come to think about it I have like 5 similar stories I could relate from HS/college

"Twilight" Seduction? HS Student Claims Teacher Said He Looked Like Taylor Lautner, Had Sex With Him in Her Classroom

http://laist.com/2012/03/13/student_claims_hs_english_teacher_s.php

oh jesus

lord help

ah Hemet

This thread's pics add momentum to the "it's all just pheromones" theory of human sexual attraction.

had a college friend from Hemet, her hs football teacher was arrested for pimping his wife out to team members

xp

"you smell like Taylor Lautner" xp

The student also claims Ramirez shared with him her unhappiness at home with her husband

twilight mom

"Spray this wolf-scent on you first"

just ugh ugh

I guess we need to get a mod to add "rolling" to the thread title.

pretty much every judith post over the last three months has made me want to smash my face repeatedly into my keyboard. this is the nicest way i can say all the other things i've been refraining from saying

what other threads has "judith" been active on?

the Paul Simon poll...?

repped for judith butler on the feminist theory thread

in that instance i of course assumed judith was judith butler

I just assumed she was a butler

judith is plax iirc, I don't know why this is a big deal?

ha i wonder why this of all threads was the one to merit a response from mordy

that was kind of my question

mordy is straight

lol, bc ppl were being snarky anyway so i hoped i could just slip that in w/out it being a big fuss. the posts that much more warrant my frustration, like this one OK, which one of you is @BARTSIMSON_REAL? went pretty much unnoticed

oh, thread tourism coupled with one-line dismissals

or this whole thing was rmde Lana Del Rey

and if i was a stalker-mordy i could post like dozens of these things that have been annoying the fuck out of me over the last couple months but those are just the two that stand out in my mind that i can remember off-hand

Teacher Accused In Bucket Urination Case Faces Action

Patrick Henry HS Teacher Gonja Wolf Accused Of Forcing Student To Urinate In Bucket In Classroom

http://www.10news.com/news/30663986/detail.html

oh my ... i would have attended that school if i had stayed in the house i grew up, my grandparents still live close enough that we can see the football field from their living room window ...

Gonja Wolf was the singer in Guitar Wolf's short reggae phase, right?

GONJA WOLF is GONJA SUFI's mom

that story is horrifying but, given the thread title, I find myself relieved there was no subsequent sex scandal

"relieved"

http://www.myspace.com/gonjalocc

mordy u need a hug

<3 plax

yeah plax is pretty lovely, Mordy, gotta rep for him/her (?). But I will still make good on yr hug if you need it. For I am the UN.

i actually enjoyed plax's posting more before the dn change. i don't know if the dn augured a new posting style, if i have subconscious resentment towards judith butler, or what.

re hugs i will gladly receive + dispense at inevitable soon-to-be-planned philly phap. virtual hugs always feel a little cold to me. u know. numbers hugs feel like aluminum.

Gonja Wolf

I would absolutely go all the way to Philly to hug you Mordy, fyi

Gonja Wolf was the singer in Guitar Wolf's short reggae phase, right?

― Three Word Username, Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

key lol

Rollin', rollin', rollin' . . .

NORTH RIDGEVILLE, Ohio - A North Ridgeville High School teacher has been indicted following an investigation into alleged sexual contact with a student.

Constance Yacobozzi, 28, was arrested at 10 a.m. Friday and posted bond, according to the Lorain County Sheriff’s Office said.

In November, North Ridgeville police said rumors were circulating among high school students that inappropriate photos of a teacher had been sent to some students via text message. According to police, the teacher was clothed in the photos, but in one she was wearing a bikini top. There were also allegations that Yacobozzi was having a sexual relationship with a student.

A teacher alerted the school board of the rumors, police said.

Yacobozzi has denied the allegations and was indicted on two counts of sexual battery. She was placed on administrative leave in November while police continued their investigation.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_lorain/north-ridgeville-high-school-teacher-indicted-for-alleged-sexual-contact-with-student#ixzz1pJGhbp7g

http://media2.newsnet5.com//photo/2012/03/16/Web_Pic_Tall_20120316143004_320_240.JPG

well, no story this year is gonna beat the one about the teacher that fed his students his semen, so everything else is a race for second

nope, that one is tops!!

hmmm, guess I do want to load all 453 comments

haha frogbs

that photo is weird

frogbs's time away from ilx has done him well - he's killing

honed and sharp as a tack

(04-06) 19:16 PDT Modesto, Calif. (AP) --

A former California teacher who made national headlines when he left his job and family to move in with an 18-year-old student was arrested Friday on suspicion of sexually abusing a different student more than a decade ago, police said.

Christopher Hooker, 41, was arrested at his home and booked in Stanislaus County Jail on one count of oral copulation with a minor.

Police said the abuse occurred with a 17-year-old girl in 1998 when Hooker was a teacher at Davis High School in Modesto. The girl was a student at a different school, police said.

In a statement, police said Hooker befriended the 17-year-old. The department did not immediately return a call seeking clarification of how the two met.

Hooker appeared in court Friday. A judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf, set his bail at $50,000 and assigned him a public defender, the Modesto Bee reported.

Hooker requested that his bail amount be reduced, and the judge set a hearing for Tuesday to consider the matter.

Police said the investigation started after Hooker announced his relationship in February with Jordan Powers, whom he taught at Enochs High School in Modesto.

Hooker has three children, including one who was a junior at Enochs.

The underage victim was discovered in the course of that investigation, police said.

Appearing on numerous national talk shows and in news interviews, Hooker and Powers maintained they didn't have a sexual relationship until she turned 18, but police are still investigating whether there was inappropriate contact before that.

In interviews for the "Dr. Phil" show and ABC's "Good Morning America," the couple can be seen holding hands and exchanging smiles.

Powers' mother, Tammie, confronted the couple on "Dr. Phil" and accused Hooker of brainwashing her daughter.

The couple maintains that, while they met when Jordan was 14, their relationship did not become physical until she was of age, making it permissible under current laws. California's age of consent is 18.

The Modesto Bee reported that Tammie Powers sent a text message to one of the newspaper's reporters Friday saying she and her daughter were catching a flight to an undisclosed location.

In response to the relationship between Hooker and Jordan Powers, a state lawmaker from Modesto last week proposed legislation that would ban student-teacher relationships regardless of age, even if the student is 18, and strip school employees of their pensions and retiree health care if they are convicted.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/04/06/national/a141920D94.DTL#ixzz1rKVRYPUu

you kind have known something like this was going to happen.

It's all just so... u_u

this story just gets better and better!

"No jail for me and that is only because of luck … no witnesses coming forward," the message reads. "He said he was of legal age, but he lied. I just can't help wanting these hot young boys … and they want me. Who am I to spoil a young man's fantasy. Damn."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/03/kristle-vandever-oregon-t_n_1738632.html

cut his pwnis off imo

haha oh wait it's a female teacher, cut off her head

srsly though my ex was telling me this is v common in mn and wi. can anyone confirm?

uh really?? i mean i think it's happened here but

yeah she said everyone she knew in every high school agreed

maybe it was just a rumor among that clique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjzNto68p5g

i didn't grow up here so maybe!

xp

that letourneau thing seems to be defying expectations

All I know is, in my high school, someone gbx knew was seduced by a female teacher and claimed to have brain tumor to deflect attention away from the "affair" and my English teacher left his wife for his (mid 20s) daughter's best friend, so maybe this does happen in MN all of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmezIIrFQmY

this happens in schools all of the time!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8479276/cincinnati-bengals-ex-nfl-cheerleader-sarah-jones-pleads-guilty-student-sex

always nice when love wins out in the end

"Deters declined to discuss details of their current relationship, saying that the pair would discuss it on the "Today" show and "Dateline" on Friday."

Man you have to have some simple life needs to be 27 and think a teen is who you want to pursue

I just... male or female, I just *do not* understand how hooking up somehow becomes a good idea for a teacher with a student.

like, that's a line that looks like a third-world military checkpoint in my mind.

I've known teachers who have done it, who have entertained the idea of doing it, and the children of teachers who have done it and I will never comprehend that mindset

why are america's teachers emotionally stunted????

and I know it's not as simple as 'oh this is a good idea' but, there's so many points on that road where turning back can happen/is an option. where 'this is wrong' is a song that's playing in your head.

Well, a lot of people meet someone special at work and for teachers most of the people they meet are children

also "this is wrong" often sounds like "but feels SO RIGHT" to these people

true

not their first or even worst bad choice in their life leading up to that moment perhaps

"This is wrong and makes me feel bad in a pleasurable way"

nailed it

so to speak, cough

Maybe they really want to be on the "Today" show.

At least they're drawing the line between the 'Today' show and Dateline NBC.