big hoos & owenf watch 'battlestar galactica' and no one talks abt eps they haven't seen yet

so yeah man this show

i'm only a few episodes into season 1 thus far, loving it. owenf is kindly waiting for me to finish the season so we can jointly start s2

i was surprised at how much i already care about the characters--the deck crew cheering when they realized it was starbuck in the cylon ship gave me a little charge. just watched ep6 'litmus' and it was the first moment that kinda clanged for me; sorta didn't buy that everybody was down with the commander shutting down the tribunal by fiat. clearly the ~audience~ knew there was nothing to the master at arms' line of questioning, but as far as they were concerned he was telling them to stop asking questions as soon as the question got difficult, idk.

really looking forward to the rest of the season.

looking forward to you guys hating this soon

― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, April 5, 2012 10:53 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ key post

S1 and S2 Baltar is some of my favorite shit ever

the characters/casting is unimpeachable, every actor so stronglly tied to their characters in my mind even now, and evoke such strong feelings. Agh! So great.

envious of u guys

Baltar is so deranged. I love that he's this semi comedic yet really important character. The looks that commander Adama gives him are absolute gold.

Least favorite character is Apollo. He's got a bit of a Tom Cruise thing going on which irks me a little. But that's being particularly harsh.

I call Apollo Bambi Jam

started this a year or two ago -- it was fine, but i petered out about midway through season one

"litmus" (the DID YOU OPEN THE HATCH COMBING episode, right?) is iirc the worst thing in s1

a dorky cliche i used to be super into was hotshot space pilots and i'm pretty sure this show is the best ever hotshot space pilot thing.

it does seem strange to watch this in the post-war-on-terror era. at the time this was like the only TV show that seemed to grapple seriously with post-9/11 sorts of traumas/issues

Apollo gets really, really good as the series goes on. I won't spoil anything, obvs, but at one point he's got a line reading consisting entirely of "Gaius Baltar?!" that's like the greatest thing ever.

I do not agree with that assessment. sub-Tom Cruise is OTM afaic.

"Gaius Baltar?!"

is it like jim mora saying 'playoffs?!'

It's better!

Apollo improves with time. Takes a while for him to not seem like the stereotypical whiny-rebellious captain's son

And he gets more handsome.

Helo is the handsomest IMO. We are talking about Battlestar ws's right, lol

Well, more handsome except for that brief no wait no spoilers.

Grace Park is all-time ws territory.

it does seem strange to watch this in the post-war-on-terror era. at the time this was like the only TV show that seemed to grapple seriously with post-9/11 sorts of traumas/issues
--Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier)

Yeah I mean there was a moment where they show all these p obviously 9/11-style memorial/missing posters on the ship and I was like "I wonder if this was *moving* in 2003 instead of heavy-handed"

I doubt everyone will get this ref but I keep thinking the aesthetic reminds me of the game Wing Commander 3.

lol I just that passed that on to Mr Veg who said u r otm, Hoos :)

Delete the first 'that', ffs

p. sure it was still heavy-handed, but hey it's sf. and a far better response than say, 24

I kind of hate all the cheering bits tbh

Def

p. sure it was still heavy-handed, but hey it's sf. and a far better response than say, 24
--mookieproof

Def

hey Laurie and I are right about where you are Hoos, we are also digging it. She hates Baltar though and calls him "penis man", as in "led around by his...".

To be fair to Gaius, I'd roll the dice with the future of the human race to get with Caprica Six.

Otm

the smash-cut w/timpanis at the start of every ep, what's that about? Idgi

^

ugh I know, you get the little 'they have a plan bit' then the 'last week' then the bit of actual real show (with no indicator of when it's started) and then the title, the the timpanis and episode spoilers.

there are a LOT of cheering/back slapping moments.

Not entirely sure how down I am with 'frack' yet. Don't think I ever will be.

i think the first season there were a lot of characters that were aggravating and irritating that i warmed to in future seasons. boomer being one of them.

and Mary McDonnell is so PRESIDENTIAL.
She should be in first lady to Martin Sheen in something.

'a'

i liked her assistant

he hasn't had much to do so far really. Hope he gets a more substantial role. He seems like a nice chap.

I liked the boomer/assistant
"he's a freedom fighter" "he's a terrorist" argument.

baltar's a pretty neat trick in this, but i am old and still have fond, dimly remembered memories of baltar in the original

Oh jeez shades of the Crazy in madam prez thinking Adama is a cylon, the way her voice shook while she wore that bathrobe & fretted.

Love baltar a lot btw

Watching this w/headphones is intense btw

do the headphones have 9-11 trauma issues?

i'd kinda like to play along, but i don't think i'll be able to keep up to speed

well part of my quick clip atm is that i'm unemployed and watching 2+ eps a day on hulu

lol

btw speaking of hulu, is anybody watching the ""hulu original program"" "battleground"? it's basically 'the office' set in a state senate campaign office. kinda fun, lightly wonky.

lol i haven't watched any of The 4 Best Dramas Of The Last 25 Years

we need you get you some free time, mookie

I think some of my favorite scenes as it goes on is with all of them getting lit up on hooch. That really brings out the angst, especially in the old fellas.

If they are all sitting around drinking, get ready, it's getting ready to throw down.

opening poker scene with Starbuck and old grizzleguts is one of my faves

oh, i have free time

i just do little worthwhile with it

Starbuck is my fave x 10. Is she the obv all-fan fave?

Carl is my fav

Doesn't the "they have a plan" opening change as the show goes on?

Carl is my fav

awwwww

Saul Tigh pretty much steals the show even if drunk and surly is pretty much M.O. He gets some of the best scenes the whole series.

thanks to Tigh 'gods dammit' lives forever in my cursing phrasebook

Was kinda disappointed that the big meeting to hash out wonky political questions turned into "nominate a vice president, then incongruously party." major lol @ bangin the reporter in the bathroom. The mad scientist being vp with prez's looming expiration date is interesting but also kinda says something's gonna come along to shift the trajectory of some things--there's no way he winds up president. I think.

kinda surprised there was no #occupygalactica meme

Haha yeah when zarrack is on screen I keep finding myself thinking "occupy galactica" and kind of wanting to stick up for the guy who's obv a ~masses fooling populist~

at occupy's trending-topic height i'm sure i saw adama's face somewhere, i mean george takei was tweeting about occupying arrakis for a while there.

"So Say We All" via human mic

damn what a season finale, coup and two shots to the gut, goddamn

starbuck going into hysterics seemed weirdly out of character tho imo

brace yourself, hoostein

I keep thinking the aesthetic reminds me of the game Wing Commander 3.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, April 6, 2012 12:08 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw here i'm just thinking like

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5637/wingsynthesezy3.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/372193-wing-commander-iii-heart-of-the-tiger-playstation-screenshot.png
http://static.ogl.ru/i/00/02/39/91/1171820276.gif

lol that i watched the first season in 2 days btw

you're gonna need a 12-step when it's over, son

so owenf i am all caught up

when do you think you'll be prepared to launch s2?

Doesn't the "they have a plan" opening change as the show goes on?

it does, but not for the reasons you would hope

the last couple seasons are kinda dire

*shhhh*

anyway ur RONG

man that was FAST. I'm good to go when you are.

haha i mean its all on hulu and i'm unemployed, so

I can think of no finer employment, hoos :)

except the paying kind of course :/

ha

ok so i guess i'll watch s2e1 tonight

2+ per day? Man, I had season 1/2 DVDs from a friend, got the flu, and smashed through 6 - 8 hours for three days. Also, I had a fever.

ha that's what i did with the wire

I know more people who cruised through this en masse - Battlestar-athon - than did nearly any other show. Even when it takes a turn toward the not nearly as good as the first two seasons, it stays seriously compelling. You've got some good stuff coming up.

Ok guys I'm goin in

Holy hell @ opening

2+ per day? Man, I had season 1/2 DVDs from a friend, got the flu, and smashed through 6 - 8 hours for three days. Also, I had a fever.

did this when I had an ear infection and gobbled down codeine. it was kind of great.

yup, and sure don't forget to watch Razor, i think it was after season 2 ends?

^^^^ this

yep, I think it fits in as 2.5 iirc

Oh shit guys

Lol @ totally unbelievable young Adama/tigh

Also ew @ new "home called earth" opening overlay

I know, the reveal of 'earth' playing a part is basically crushed into indifference with that at the beginning.

Tigh's HAIR

I'm really hoping that eventually Tigh will do something fucking insanely heroic at some point. I bet he goes out in some sort of awesome self sacrifice to save Adama.

trying to work out the fx for this show too. What was on that was comparable in terms of budget and fx? Space battles look pretty awesome but I'm always a bit disappointed when I see a Cylon (robo version).

CHIEF NEEDS A RAISE

couldn't bring myself to finish this by the end

CHIEF NEEDS A RAISE
--owenf

And a promotion

Realest of talking.

chief is <3

Reading about you watching this is making me v. v. happy. I love this show so much. (ALL OF IT.)

Only a Cylon spy would love all of it.

^^^ put this guy out an airlock tbh

Only a Cylon would suggest that. Clearly, you should go out the airlock!

(Show in a nutshell^)

I am a cylon spy masquerading as a cylon spy masquerading as an airlock and I love ALL this show too (except for the last few scenes of the last ep)

Are Dee and Billy going to have that on/off dynamic for the whole of the show?

TELL HER YOU LOVER HER MAN

Haha, I just remembered that the miniseries, and I think one of the early episodes, had a version of the kid Boxey from the OG series. Moore and co. must have been like, "LOL fuck that, nobody liked that character ever and this is not a show about little kids."

http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/hills/5396/boxy1.jpg

yeah, he was on some of the deleted scenes, i think. they eventually decided to just cut him out altogether

what idiot let 'Crashdown' head up a mission to Kobol. Tempting fate.

you gotta admit that's a pretty awful callsign to take

hotdog would trade though

Haha hotdog nepotism.

Hotdog is EJO's son IRL FYI

hey hoos/owenf

did u start with season 1 proper, or the miniseries?

if you havent seen the miniseries go back & check it out when you get a chance, it's worth it.

miniseries is the "true" beginning of the series

xp yeah, though 30/Water is way more exciting, it's still worth wathcing just to see the setup

yeah we both watched the miniseries first.
Thinking about, it works really well to have it in this format. The big 'event' that forces the journey in a chunk and then ramp it down a little for the bulk of the show. Ideally it could end in some big miniseries showdown!

what idiot let 'Crashdown' head up a mission to Kobol. Tempting fate.
--owenf

Seriously fuck crashdown

dude is way too pale to be a leader

Rewatching mini series atm: lol'ing at Six's space-hooker clothes

Dude who plays Crashdown= Vader's secret apprentice in the Force Unleashed games.

pretty sure the newer dvd/blu-ray sets and all online streaming versions actually put the miniseries in with season 1

i was under the impression they were still being sold separately, glad I'm
wrong

I was worried because there was some insane amazon deal for the whole series box set and I was pissed that it didn't say it included the miniseries, but it's the first disc in season one.

yay!

so um

if the vice president was just rescued in the midst of a cylon firefight

why do they have martial law instead of a new president

doc going hardman was kind of great

does tigh become a character you actually like at some point?

ellen is such a lady macbeth

there are too many fucking lady macbeths

i actually said "fuck yeah" to my laptop when tigh finds out the workers are striking

does tigh become a character you actually like at some point?

Yes, definitely.

We got my parents into this show, and bought them the DVDs for Christmas for a couple of years as they were being released but they have still never seen the last season. My mom says she can't deal with the show ending.

Tigh is one of my favorite characters of the show by the end!

i think it's safe to say you're going to be seeing a lot more shades of Ellen and Tigh by the end of the series

Tigh easily one of the most consistently compelling characters on the show

They really move him from semi-washed-up and sparring with Starbuck into a dude with a lot of heartache and loss (no spoiler). hoos and owen have a lot to look forward to

i just started watching this. took me awhile...but i had to get through all of friday night lights, sons of anarchy, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... plus all those macgyver episodes with the kids....plus we just started watching xena together and we have like 121 episodes to go there...

but i am enjoying. it makes me sad in a weird way, which is what sci-fi that i like does to me.

but i better not read this thread...seeya.

Shirt for a hoos:

http://img3.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.321096623.jpg

<3

haha

damn yall "the farm" was dark as fuck

i had to immediately watch "earth part 1 &2" to get it outta my head

so claustrophobic and unsettling

man chief seeing caprica-boomer w/helo was heavy shit

also "and you ask 'why'?" made my eyes get huge

Home I and II, not Earth I and II.

And yes I kind of hate myself for correcting that.

that

"that error" I guess?

I hate myself
for correcting Hoos.

haha no i just meant like "yes, that, what you said, is what i meant to say"

<3

Back atcha, fella.

ANYWAY Home is an awesome episode. "And you ask why?" is great. I also think Kobol is pretty and creepy.

I'm a little confused about why nobody brings up the argument of settling on Kobol? Is it because there are cylons there? What's not to say that Cylons don't follow them all the way to earth?

I think it's because Kobol is cursed? Also they are hoping to get away from the Cylons.

that's a good point--are they looking for earth because of its mystical historic properties or just cause it's a planet with water and shit that they can live on?

also cylon 6 in sweats + a ponytail fuckin w/doc was hilars

"I'M NOT CRAZY"

Kobol's cursed. also the Cylons know where it is

that part of the plot kept making me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM-PeBnCLx4

are they looking for earth because of its mystical historic properties or just cause it's a planet with water and shit that they can live on?

a little of both. also the promise of a planet inhabited by humans would provide the hope of a support structure etc

man "final cut" was great. lucy lawless! some characterization for gaida, even if it was kinda goofy! loved the cylon dogfight shot entirely from inside galactica. lol'd at adama's "yessssss" fist pump.

and the little twist at the end was a nice surprising touch.

good show, good well paced ep

they kept a lotta balls in the air at once

So you're on season two? Coming up on my two least favorite episodes in the whole series, Black Market and Scar.

Dude.

Wait never mind! I misread Jeff's post and though the said favorite, and then I thought he was fucking with you.

Is Black Market the pretty much universally acknowledged nadir?

I believe so.

black market was like a DS9 episode oddly misplaced into BSG, almost goofy. no, for me the nadir of the show is that boxing one in S3.

That's incredibly insulting to DS9.

hey, i love DS9, even above TNG, but come on, there were some wack episodes on that show

it was a bad episode. even Moore said as much. leave DS9 out of this >:(

fine fine. for some reason i was thinking about those O'Brien goes undercover the galactic mob episodes. but seriously SISKO 4 EVER

also, scar is nothing compared to that boxing episode

Looking at the Moore/Braga-led Star Trek series and then seeing what they've done since... well, I think we know who was the weak link after comparing BSG to, um, Terra Nova.

Scar is not so bad. the boxing episode and the black market episode are horrible, but I'm hard pressed to say their actually "worse" than what happens at the end of the series.

they're

I kind of liked the boxing episode

I did too.

best to not talk further about eps they haven't seen yet tbf

me three

leave DS9 out of this >:(

Further evidence of your greatness.

The boxing ep is Unfinished Business, right? That ep will always hold a place in my heart because of the score. Violence and Variations is probably my favorite piece of music from BSG. It's a variation of "Passacaglia" from S1, but it's my favorite variation.

I don't mind Unfinished Business on its merits, either. I'm also not as annoyed by Scar as Jeff is, but it's not my favorite. Black Market is the one episode I'll always skip when I rewatch the series.

Yeah Black Market just...everything about it is not good, compared to the rest of the series.

Bear McCreary's music for this whole show is A+
I dunno if I've ever been THAT taken with a score before. He makes good choices.

Yes! I sometimes listen to the whole score (as in all four seasons in a row), and I also have a playlist of my favorite songs for when I don't have that kind of time.

also cuet

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/McCrearyHeadshot2009.jpg/174px-McCrearyHeadshot2009.jpg

lol my ex-girlfriend's mom loved BSG and we got her the score albums for christmas one year

where are you up to hoos?

about to watch "flight of the phoenix" and "pegasus" which will put me halfway through the season

Pegasus is good shit

y'know, of the handful of characters they didn't revive from the original series (Casseopea, Boxy etc), the one I really wish they had revamped was Lucifer.

Oh man Pegasus is great.

The great thing about Pegasus is it's a story thread straight from the OG series, and has some similarities, but ends up going to some VERY different places.

yep

oooh Pegasus. give us the reax!

btw the only part of "final cut" that rang hollow for me was how big their camera/mic setup was

phones and shit

lol

Pegasus is badass I love it so much

Commander Kane RULES

Gaeta's bit in 'final cut' made me lol. Apparently those interview sections were improvised by the actors.

loved "phoenix," that look that adama & sharon share right before she gets taken back to the brig is heavy shit

oh shiiiiii

about to watch 'resurrection ship pt 2' holy shiiiiii

that is some damn fine television programming

kinda felt like apollo not dying was a cheap bait-and-switch

not to drop any spoilers but you may want to keep the phrase "cheap bait-and-switch" copied to your clipboard for a number of future episodes

i'm also watching this show for the first time, almost through with season 3. disappointed so far. the multi-ep arcs are usually brilliant, but the standalone eps (most of them) are mostly pointless. sometimes a pain to get through. definitely shouldn't have had 20+ ep seasons. the boxing episode was the tipping point for me.

and when i say "(most of them)" i mean most of the eps are standalone, not most of them are mostly pointless. they're all mostly pointless.

yeah the black market episode felt like CSIBSG down to the lol lighting

here comes scar

and yeah like the prostitute with the heart of gold who we'd never heard of and all the hinting at this never-before-referenced-but-suddenly-relevant-backstory-that-we'll-likely-never-hear-of-again was just oof

just don't like apollo tbh

would watch a show abt starbuck

haha the timpani spoilers on scar

starbuck spars!
starbuck makes out with a dude!
starbuck flies!
starbuck drinks!
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

"you want my ass so bad you can taste it"

uh

just realised this is all on demand and now i want to watch it

i liked that one!

i've been watching on hulu, and they've only got up to s3 for free, so i should prob get DLing

i understand that midseason eps tend to be weakest & wheelspinny in any show but "IS SHARON A THREAT" "no sharon is an asset" is getting kinda tiresome

Show is even better if you watch it knowing that the actor playing Apollo is Australian.

He and his sister are v.v. attractive and good at American accents.

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/lb/fashion_for_life_2_180509/jamie_bamber_2420960.jpg

Is she the chick from Damages?

Yep. She's also currently a regular on Once Upon A Time.

> Show is even better if you watch it knowing that the actor playing Apollo is Australian.

not according to imdb

Born: Jamie St John Bamber Griffith
April 3, 1973 in Hammersmith, London, England, UK

(i only looked that up as he was also in L&O:UK and didn't have any hint of an accent)

american father, northern irish mother, spent some time in france, italy. cambridge university...

Potato, potato.

How often are there UK productions that feature Americans doing British accents? Or Australian productions with Americans acting Australian?

Gillian Anderson does a lot of BBC costume dramas these days but it's not common. Probably cos the money is better in the US

O man, normally would think above woman is banging but now I can never not see Apollo

I am almost finished with this series after watching it sporadically for the last few years. Down to the last few episodes. I won't give any SPOILERS, but I will say that for the last 10-15 episodes I have gotten increasingly irritated to the point where I'm only watching it now to see how it ends. A few twists and turns too many, it gets tiresome. Still, a fine show overall. It's just always hard to keep something going over more than a few seasons.

^ would probably have to agree. I still have this huge affection for it, though.

^
^ i feel roughly the same way. was watching the last, well, season just to see how things played out. the last few seasons had so many more misses than hits that am more ambivalent about it tho.

I do not feel that way. I thought everything was great. Maybe not the last 2 minutes or so, but the journey there was awesome.

I'm with Jeff.

they really cinched the pipes when they shut down megaupload, i'm sort of frustratedly impressed.

I'm with VegemiteGrrl and Jeff.

what? man, just hoist the mainsail and go over to the bay

right right

I think I even liked the boxing episode, though it's been a while. The very end felt like a big ol' fuck you though.

finished dl'ing

whoa those last two eps of season 2

so much cray

good politinerd refs too, lol'd @ "there he goes again" and i totally got goosebumps when Chief did the 'bodies upon the gears' speech

love that they managed to make apollo look instantly older & frumpier by giving him a crappier haircut

so like

the whole nuke thing was a long-term trap?

a way for the cylons to talk the humans into settling down & feeling safe so they could go all overseer on them?

but i thought sharon & 6 talked them into being enlightened machines, what's that about

galactica-sharon also conspicuously absent from new caprica

its gotten so i can tell how much i'm gonna enjoy an episode by the drumline spoilers

reaction shot!
reaction shot!
innocuous action!
making out!
reaction shot!
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

I always had to skip those.

i totally got goosebumps when Chief did the 'bodies upon the gears' speech

Props to you and Shakey for making me aware of that speech in the first place on the Occupy threads. When I heard it I was like, "Hey! It's that thing!"

ooh you're up to new caprica
managed to make apollo look instantly older & frumpier

you're about to get a fun surprise on this front

^^^ oh god yes

major kudos to Jamie Bamber on that, too.

the January Jones of the last decade

new Caprica Apollo is some of the funniest shit in the show

beardo Chief! <3

nu-caprica pirate tigh is my favorite tigh

damn this is like a whole other show in season 3

the season 2 conclusion/twist is so audacious, there's only one other moment in the series (imho) that hits that same level of narrative daring

Shakey Mo playing voice of doom itt

:)

eh you know what moment I'm talkin about

Starbuck/Adama sex scene?

let's just say some teeth get brushed

j/k

Oh man, Exodus 1 and 2 are great.

Exodus 1 and 2 = awesome

I can't remember how season 3 starts, is it 8 MONTHS LATER?

I can't remember how season 3 starts, is it 8 MONTHS LATER?
--mh

It's 4 months after the Cylons showed up, so one year four months after settling on New Caprica.

Also fuuuuuu at firing squad

ok. SO. Important.

Adama's moustache is WAY better in the final ep of season 2 than the first ep of season 3.

Real talk

Trying to figure out why Chief shaved between episodes

nu-caprica pirate tigh is my favorite tigh

― I DIED, Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

MORE LIKE CAPTAIN BIRDS-TIGH AMIRITE

I find it kind of hard to take Chief seriously. I think it's his face. He just looks so nice. Every time I see him I just think 'Oh Chief'

Also lol @ "go panthers" "cbucks rule"

Oh, Tyrolpaws

Simultaneous firefights awww yeah

Also I wish we could have seen Chief and Cally's relationship actually happen. It kind of devalues the fact that she forgave him/said she liked him if we don't get to see the awkward build up where they adress the fact that he beat the shit out of her ('Oh Chief') rather than just going YOU KILLED MY GF - I BEAT YOU UP - I LIKE YOU - PREGNANT. Maybe we'll get some flashbacks or something.

lol space sports.

I get that, their relationship is 90% unfulfilling whining on screen

Btw this happened a few eps back but I thought Baltar-in-Six's-Head was a nice touch.

Can anybody help me fill in the blanks on how the cylons coming to N-C was a part of Sharon/6's whole "repentant cylons" deal and why they suddenly seemed to lose all their clout as soon as they got there?

is apollo wearing a fat suit?

yes he is

so funny

"I settled for that shriek! Those dull vacant eyes! The boiled cabbage stench of her! And why? Because this is my life!"

Man watching a show where suicide bombing insurgents are the good guys fighting ostensibly well-meaning imperialist occupiers must have felt even crazier in 2005.

^
FOR REAL

Hate the "last time"s where they dub in lines that totally didnt get said in the scene.

Had a look on wikipedia a few episodes back and there are some super cool sounding deleted scenes but had to stop reading due to spoilery stuff. Looking forward to analysis when it's done.

'last time on...' dubbing is bad in every show. I can never understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea

makes it really confusing especially if you're watching a lot in a chunk. I'm constantly thinking I've missed an episode

Yeah I'm pretty sure the last "last time" actually had a deleted scene?

man Tigh can be totally fire & brimstone poetic sometimes

"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that."

Can anybody help me fill in the blanks on how the cylons coming to N-C was a part of Sharon/6's whole "repentant cylons" deal and why they suddenly seemed to lose all their clout as soon as they got there?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, April 13, 2012 12:31 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark

They were hoping to co-exist, but they went about it the wrong way. Hoping that occupation would somehow win the hearts and minds because obv there was a lot of distrust from the human side as they did wipe out their 12 planets of people. Maybe it only makes sense in the context of Iraq though, but you're right, it felt pretty amazing at the time. War of the Worlds and *maybe* Munich aside, Hollywood's attempts to address the issue were so bad that it felt like BSG was pretty much the only place in American culture really interested in exploring it.

loose lips sink raptors Chiefy

Man watching a show where suicide bombing insurgents are the good guys fighting ostensibly well-meaning imperialist occupiers must have felt even crazier in 2005.

This absolutely accounts for a great deal of the show's contemporaneous appeal, and why so many of my friends otherwise not interested in sci-fi bought into this. Though of course the series does not sustain the parallels, to its detriment.

Dang I thought they were gonna sustain the New Caprica thing for a season or so, they got outta there way faster than I figured.

And they even changed the intro titles back! What a cheat.

shooting in nu-cap was $$$$ and they just had no budget. but the Galactica jumping into the atmosphere was A+ worth it imo

Yeah I actually said "ballsy!" to my screen

man so these first two eps after exodus felt like they could largely have come out of a dark swath of season 2

this thread makes me want to watch all this again. if it wasn't for the 20 other dvds in front of the tv...

i didn't hate the boxing episode! filled in some gaps for me, though i could have done without adama's weird bloodied speech.

kind of hated kat

thank god starbuck has short hair again

War of the Worlds and *maybe* Munich aside, Hollywood's attempts to address the issue were so bad that it felt like BSG was pretty much the only place in American culture really interested in exploring it.

― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Friday, April 13, 2012 1:19 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man i remember being disturbed as fuck by war of the worlds

thought that starbuck's new ink was some sort of cylon tagging system. Took a while to realise it was her boyfriend's sports bro tagging system.

I hated kat too.

TV critics Alan Sepinwall and Maureen Ryan have nice recaps/analysis of BSG eps if you are interested. Not spoilery and I really like their insight.

link?

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/search/label/Battlestar%20Galactica

man i am totally not interested in this lucy lawless character at all

also lol @ gaius beardtar

Lucy Lawless character gets mired in the kid mythology stuff and it's annoying. In honor of this thread I watched the Exodus eps again last night. I almost forgot how creepy/sleazy the cylons were -- Leoben and the attempted weird manipulation of Starbuck, the Cavil using Ellen, the mythology thing.

i still can't get over the degree to which the new caprica arc felt like a whole different (maybe better?) show

btw kinda rmde @ the drug that put baltar treading water in the ocean just in case there weren't enough neon signs saying THIS IS ABOUT WATERBOARDING

man i was really hoping the general strike would be a two parter

but i was also hoping they'd occupy the factory so

i still can't get over the degree to which the new caprica arc felt like a whole different (maybe better?) show

^this!

oh right so we're looking for earth and shit, we forgot for 10 episodes

better in part bc no matter how much praise this show receives the spaceship sets are still dorky

just noticed that the number of survivors in the titles is changing

i figured it must have been, but til now the fluctuations had been too small for me to notice

admiral bluffing is kinda getting old; we've never been given any reason to believe he would be totes ruthless, but we have plenty of opportunity to see him act like he's gonna be ruthless and then pull back. it just makes for lower stakes the next time he threatens to execute so-and-so bcz you've got no reason to think he'd actually do it.

love the fact that a hoos and owenf are living out a Portlandia sketch.

i need to watch this all in a row.

haha yeah i saw that sketch last week

really liked these last two eps of the season--i would not have pegged those 4 in a million years, and cool of them to leave one of the final five out.

still don't really get 'all along the watchtower' as the cue

totally bought the whole trial, p plausible and satisfying. baltar's "real" voice was a good moment, irish (lol) lawyer walking away without the cane was a nice touch.

wtbuck

I have been totally slack in watching this the last couple of days. going to catch up tonight and tomorrow evening. Exciting. Wish baltar was was s2 baltar though.

still don't really get 'all along the watchtower' as the cue

bites tongue

I think anyone who likes the series as a whole probably avoids talking about that in conversation

..except for maybe some ultrafan who has lyrics airbrushed on the back of a t-shirt next to portraits of the final five or whatever

I know s10cki disagrees but the Watchtower inclusion is the shark-jumping moment of the series imho

yeah i mean the way it was revealed was cool, but when you realize what it actually is you're like '............................................'

can't believe it took me all of 30 minutes to grab s4, the Bay is exceedingly fast

still don't really get 'all along the watchtower' as the cue

I've seen the whole series and still don't get the cue. I'm not one to point out shark-jumping moments in shows, but ...

that whole reveal sequence was pretty awes imo

SPOILERS

Bob Dylan is the 5th Cylon

hahah

I caught up with viewing by the time they started the whole final five reveal thing, I think. It'll be interesting to see how hoos and owen react

I mean, for the rest, obviously we know about this part

The sky ain't yellow, it's Cylon.

ahaha

totally have 1 crush on racetrack btw

just finished S3. for a couple days i was like "ugh can this thread just catch up to maelstrom so i can talk about starbuck" and then y'all are talking about revealing four cylons and i'm liek wtf.

moore or whatever (already forgotten the wiki entry) said that, um, a colonies musician also wrote all along the watchtower and they were singing that. um. i don't think he's really internalized how much of a stretch that is. when i put it together, i assumed that it meant the cylons were somehow aware of earth and its (pop) culture, which would've been a lot more interesting than "we forgot to write some dummy lyrics whoops"

would totally watch "law & order: colonial fleet" just for the apollo/romo chemistry

I will hold my comments on the use of All Along the Watchtower in the show until later, but I will say now that I really hate the version of the song that they use in the show. It's so cheesy. Bear McCreary's brother sings it and his voice and delivery reminds me of every bad open mic wannabe singer songwriter ever.

Where are you now? Have you watched The Hub yet? That's my favorite episode.

hoos, I haven't seen it, but apparently Jamie Bamber was on Law & Order UK! unfortunately no romo :/

Apollo and Helo both ended up on Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse," the former as a guest star and the latter as one of the lead characters.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a5f10bf2970c-300wi

man i just watched "revelations" and i feel like i could just stop there, that episode was so good and wrapped up so many loose ends

This show is so good it compels you to watch until the end even though you know in your heart you should quit while you're ahead.

man i just watched "revelations" and i feel like i could just stop there, that episode was so good and wrapped up so many loose ends

that was the "other" moment I was referring to upthread that's similar to the Cylons arrival on New Caprica. and it COULD have ended there, but they opted to fuck things up even more.

kinda wish I'd stopped watching at revelations tbh.

really wanted to see Apollo's Law & Order: London, but I never saw it come on BBC America

kinda wish I'd stopped watching at revelations tbh.

so say we all

probably would have been a perfect end point, but there's some good shit coming up imo.

"oh are you the president again? i find it hard to remember your job on any given day"

otm

yeah the role reversals get pretty tiresome, particularly with Apollo, Baltar, the Chief...

also i love how you can tell what role apollo's playing today by what outfit he's in

Some of my fav episodes are after Revelations

"the oath" & "blood on the scales" were *great*

6 episodes to go holy shit

lol @ me

lol @ funemployment

I was so goddamned pissed at Gaeta after those episodes. He did what he thought he had to, but what a waste.

There were some "webisodes" That give some backstory on the origins of Gaeta's coup, The Face of the Enemy.

really wanted to see Apollo's Law & Order: London, but I never saw it come on BBC America

it is literally like watching old original law and order - same exact stories re-used - but with britishes, council estates, barristers with wigs, etc.

so, somewhat ok.

He did what he thought he had to, but what a waste.

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:44 AM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean imo its p rich for baltar's chief of staff to lecture anyone about dereliction of duty, resistance mole or not

once we got past the prison ship ep zarek never did anything but annoy me, so

i really thought i knew who the last of the 5 was and kinda felt cheated when i was wrong

Who were you guessing?

roslin

actually totally forgot who the fifth was so i had to look it up

"GAIUS BALTAR?!"

at one point he's got a line reading consisting entirely of "Gaius Baltar?!" that's like the greatest thing ever.

― Frank Youngenstein (Phil D.), Thursday, April 5, 2012 11:38 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

:D

this was a high quality television program

owen sorry for kinda getting off to the races there, i just picked up momentum this past weekend and had to get it done

ended the way i thought it would in most every respect

Note: Do not make the mistake of watching Caprica now, it is ridonculous.

It had potential, but never had a chance.

kinda harsh, but then i never finished Caprica either... it had some good stuff going for it, though

We finished it, but yeah. I agree that it had potential and I wish it would have gotten a couple of seasons.

I have three episodes left in the series, and it's so frustrating because it DID have potential, but they wasted so much time on nonsense, and character motivations were not just inconsistent but completely contradictory from episode to episode.

As noted above, as soon as it begins to veer from parallels with current events, and increasingly toward theological realms, it begins to fade. Still compelling, but the fire gets dimmer.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/9/2/6/125926_slide.jpg?v=1

ha!
i had to look up the final five aswell.

I liked the batshit theories people were coming up with before the reveal. You know, like Adama is a cylon and Lee and his bro were actually hybrids

heard a number of batshit theories that were much better than what actually got presented on-screen.

resolution of Starbuck's storyline in particular made me want to stab, so stupid.

Can I just say I hated the hit job the show did on Callie, particularly w/r/t the provenance of her child?

Like, fucking HOTDOG? Are you kidding me?

callie was always kinda crazy, let's be real

crazy like a fox

The hot dog Callie thing was some serious retconing. Ron Moore admitted So.

i admit, when it was actually happening i was like laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame

http://mimg.ugo.com/201001/35847/cuts/hot-dog_240x135.jpg

"Even I don't believe this bullshit."

one of the things that most irritated me was how the series gradually abandoned all of its precepts about cylons - they have a "plan" (er, no they don't), they can't reproduce (er, well, some can!), they can't die (well they can now that we blew up their resurrection ship!), models share memories/experiences (only when it's convenient!), they have some secret understanding of the theological underpinnings of the universe (eh, not really)

just uuuurgh so lame

I am probably the only person to rep for the series Caprica, but with the caveat that you have to pretend it is completely unrelated to BSG because whenever they mention anything that ties the two it's a weak point.

yeah but a fun ride xpost

I liked Caprica too -- at least as much as some of the stuff in the last two seasons of BSG

BSG and Lost both failed miserably on delivering the mythology they promised in the beginning - so is it possible to create a popular show like this that doesn't have a promised mythology? Would people have kept tuning in to both shows without the Cylons having a plan or whatever the smoke monster bullshit was?

adama's softer side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0HvriOlru9U#t=6863s

I think it's possible for these sorts of shows to deliver on mythology if they didn't rely on our own mythology to tidy things up. But I think going all God-y mostly serves as a major hedge and controversy deflector. I mean, even Harry Potter celebrates Christmas.

George R.R. Martin famously bashed/spoiled "Knowing," "Galactica" and "Life On Mars" with Writing 101, kids. Adam and Eve, God Did It, It Was All a Dream? I've seen Clarion students left stunned and bleeding for turning in stories with those endings.

there's also the issue of being faithful to its origins, maybe. even on the first viewing, i had minor cringes when language/plot points got too close to LOLMormonism

resolution of Starbuck's storyline in particular made me want to stab, so stupid.

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i didn't really find it all that unsatisfying, though i'm not sure why. cavil's ending was way more unsatisfying.

I think going all God-y mostly serves as a major hedge and controversy deflector. I mean, even Harry Potter celebrates Christmas.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:37 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk felt pretty hand-wavey to me

i mean i'm not disagreeing with you at all i guess, i was just sorta nonplussed

also head six/gaius in nyc & robot montage was dumb

i kinda liked that moment in the CIC where it finally all comes to a head and gaius & six go "...that's it? that's all you wanted us to do?"

LOL, yeah, Cavil just like, "Welp, time to top myself! Bye!"

also head six/gaius in nyc & robot montage was dumb

this was the worst part of the entire series.

Cavil offing himself was worth it, imo

he was the best cylon

at least Cavil's suicide was FUNNY. The Starbuck thing was just nonsensical.

All the revelations about Cavil and Ellen make her shenanigans w/him on New Caprica like 1,000x more skeevy.

like... she's a ghost/angel? that didn't know she was a ghost/angel? and spent months and months agonizing and acting crazy over this fact? also has a ship that came out of nowhere? also interacts with others/kills people/has sex etc like a normal person? just waht

also head six/gaius in nyc & robot montage was dumb

absolutel atrocious. "the dancing robot is going to murder us all! unless...." insert Ronald D. Moore cameo.

Hoos, owenf did you like it when Adama talked about THE MAIN VEIN?

what about his angry teethbrushing

also - PIGEON

GET IT STARBUCK IS LIKE A PIGEON

http://991.com/NewGallery/Nelly-Furtado-Im-Like-A-Bird-179414.jpg

i mean, "he's stuck with the bird" worked for me

i was most frustrated at starbuck's back and forth between teeth-gnashing insanity and old-school hard-nosed competence

also the actual sound of tory's windpipe getting crushed was a little much i thought

but yeah i mean in a certain annoying sense the heads being 'angels' is a frustratingly literal deus ex machina

But what was your favorite part?

favorite emotional bit of the finale was boomer's "i've made my choice"

the epic as fuck space battle was pretty rad

also reveal of the moon was pretty good

for favorite moment of the show its probably the new caprica arc and any low-drama space battle involving starbuck trash talking and shooting at shit

also "GAIUS BALTAR?!"

"It's all God's plan."

"You know he doesn't like being called that."

http://pendletonpanther.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/debbie.gif

lol

any time Adama and Starbuck would do the "What do you hear?" "Nothing but the rain." = A+ moment

my favorite part may have been when Gaius was hallucinating (?) talking with himself

I still really dig this series, which is kind of shocking considering its best episode is probably its first.

It was fun watching it as it went on because of Moore's commentaries. He was always pretty upfront that they didn't really know where it was going from season to season. Also there was an episode (Black Market, maybe) where he basically apologised and spent the entire commentary explaining how it all went wrong from conception to writing.

read in one of those interviews on a blog that moore said "six in times square was an image we'd had and liked for a long time, at least two seasons" and i was like "............................................"

i liked the first reveal of head gaius too, and gaius/six talking to head six/head gaius and going "you can hear her/him?" to each other was a+

"All Along the Watchtower" was something he'd wanted to use since his days of writing for Roswell.

also the first time the interior of a cylon ship was shown, with Sharon meeting all her copies and planting the bomb. that was a great moment.

xp

the epic as fuck space battle was pretty rad

There were so many!

My favorite part was in The Hub when Roslin pulled the pressure bandage off Baltar (and then put it back again).

Sharon meeting her copies was awesome.

the whole athena/helo arc, both those characters in retrospect wound up being so great--so much of the show they were just sorta workhorse characters for action scenes to get hung on but their stories resolved maybe better than anyone's imo

they were at least fairly consistent characters

and obvs galactica jumping into the atmosphere of new caprica with vipers hauling ass out was one of the raddest moments

Starbuck got raptored, then she got raptured

they were at least fairly consistent characters

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:53 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah that's part of what i mean--in retrospect they seemed almost more like real people than anyone else

starbuck for most of this season was reminding me a lot of buffy in season 7 of that show--a confident character suddenly shown in nearly-constant hysterics and then whipped back to hypercompetence at a moments notice when the plot needed it, and not always in ways that made sense for the inner life of the character

and obvs galactica jumping into the atmosphere of new caprica with vipers hauling ass out was one of the raddest moments

yessssss

best part

Yeah, that and the battle in the nebula were like the absolutely HOLY SHIT moments

watching so much of this show with headphones gave me a really nice sub-bass boom on every jump, and the one on new cap was ~huge~

tbh I rewatched that episode right after you mentioned that because the new caprica rescue was one of my favorite bits

I mean, other than the Callie rescue bits because she was already being written as a paper-thin liability at that point

Callie was one of my favorite characters!

i liked the Jack Ruby-style assassination scene

I like when shows don't feel the need to resolve all plot threads, but having weird directions like Starbuck not being a Cylon yet definitely having died being not-explained with "oooh, spooky, mysterious God?" was horrible. :(

right the obvious out would have been to have Starbuck be the 5th cylon but nooooooo

I think they thought it was way too obvious, and so instead of doing that they were just like "uhh... surprise it's not Starbuck!"

"If that's me lying there, then what am I?!?"

Leoben running away symbolizes the writers

I was also really hoping that the flashbacks the four known cylons were having on the nuked Earth were going to culminate in a flashback to the final five at a concert or being in a band playing the song.

"The song that switched us on... I played it. For a woman I loved"

Leoben running away symbolizes the writers

lol

also lol at rock concert flashback scenario

absolutely hate the retconned implication that Dylan "channeled" All Along the Watchtower from previous generations of humans thousands of years ago or wtf-ever. so terrible.

I want a painting of the final five rocking out, similar to that ridiculous one of Star Wars characters in a band

Tigh is on drums

Lee ramming Pegasus into a Cylon basestar. Fist pumping good.

Tigh is on drums

Tory on bass duh

You mean these guys oh wait

http://dirtysdiatribe.blogspot.com/2010/03/official-final-five-band.html

I played it… for a woman I loved.

Oh my LOL I forgot about this part. Hahahaha that's up there with THE MAIN VEIN for best worst quotes.

the eternal love song that is All Along the Watchtower:

"There must be some kind of way out of here,"
Said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion,
I can't get no relief.
Businessman they drink my wine,
Plowman dig my earth
None will level on the line, nobody offered his word

"No reason to get excited,"
The thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late"

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too

Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
*buisness man there, drink my wine,
Come and take my herb.

i liked the Jack Ruby-style assassination scene

― sarahell, Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:36 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm lol

and yeah the main vein made me lol in my bedroom at 4am

i am on episode 1.07. includes the phrase "No more Mr Nice Gaius". i laughed.

Ha! I enjoyed that line as well.

high point of the series in some ways

I finally finished that last three episodes of "Caprica" the other night. That was a bunch of bullshit re: the Adama family, that was.

yes but STOLTZ

Sometimes STOLTZ is not enough.

I'd pay money for just a show with that butler robot they had and Stoltz

SERGE

http://images.wikia.com/friends/images/0/07/MacAndCHEESE.jpg

so i've watched all of season two in pretty much the last week

So you're on season two? Coming up on my two least favorite episodes in the whole series, Black Market and Scar.

so so otm

idk i kinda enjoyed black market as law & order: battlestar

terrible, but it's better than law & order: UK starring Apollo

I thought Scar was alright though.

i've watched seven episodes today

what a life

that's livin, for sure

frackin a

i had a BG half-marathon last (bank holiday) weekend and watched 13 episodes of series 2 and finished that today with an hour of deleted scenes. the last half hour of the last episode of series 2 is done at breakneck speed.

no joke yo, comparable to the end of s2/start of s3 of buffy in CAN'T NOT WATCH

what if hoos is a cylon

he does have a lot of plans

number 77

he'd look p good in a red dress

not that good

don't sell yourself short gaihoos

i will be the judge of that hoos

am on second half of series 3. quite a drop in quality over the first half but then the first half is probably the best of the entire run. and it's now single episode stories so there's less of that 'just one more episode' feeling.

They go back to story arc p. soon.

just watched the episode about the striking factory workers. babylon 5 did it better though - dockers were striking pay and conditions. things got violent. captain was ordered by his higher-ups to stop the strike "by any means necessary". so he paid them more and improved conditions.

next major story arch i can remember is gaius as some kind of guru. don't have fond memories of that tbh.

finished series 3. ridiculous.

seven left

let's just say some teeth get brushed

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier)

there really is a lot of teeth brushing wtf

hahaha, i had forgot that weird detail

Some hilarious indulgent actorly moments with adama in the last season, one of them involving crying and paint.

good moment imo. think he directed that episode but i'm cool with that kind of indulgence.

got a lot of love for 'the old man'

finished it

crying and paint

lol yes

liked it a lot. i guess the worst thing you can do in a book/film/series is make the characters do things out of character, and shit got a little out of hand in the last season, but no biggie. i didn't even mind 'all along the watchtower' except for when someone said 'i can't get no relief'. kinda hoping the actor who played baltar is still walking around with tears in his eyes tho.

the stretch leading up to and after new caprica was hardcore awesome.

where shall i turn for my 42 minutes of closeups now?

also chief got jobbed at the end

Srs

Respeck chief

just finished. have work in five hours obv.

thoughts

also head six/gaius in nyc & robot montage was dumb

this was the worst part of the entire series.

-show would've been a million times better if it were 12 eps a season. the one-off eps were mostly 100% useless wastes of time
-i'm generally ok with the second half of s4, but it still feels like it doesn't have to be there.
-putting them on anOTHER earth, also called earth, is the worst copout of all time. basically they only had two choices for a decent ending -- have them settle on primitive earth and become the earth of today, or the twilight zone route of having them find earth to see that we've blown it up -- and they went with BOTH. urhg
-there were many scenes that resulted in me saying "an angel did it"
-the only type of person in this world who would think that "all along the watchtower" is some mythical holy song that bob dylan used his magical holy brain to conjure up from the hands of god himself is the type of person who would choose to look like this

http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/thumb/9/94/RDMcrop.jpg/200px-RDMcrop.jpg

otmfm

hahaha, oh dear.

wow I did some googling and that's just how he always looks? Geez, dude!

no reason to get excited
zachlyon kindly spoke

;_; u guys are being mean to Mr Moore

feel like Ronald Moore is one of those guys with some really good ideas who needs a better collaborator(s) to properly execute them and/or rein him in

all the best ST:TNG stuff came from him imho

Moore did a series of podcasts throughout BSG that sort of worked as commentaries for each episode. I just tried to find them but it looks like SyFy pulled them? jerks. Really worth digging up if you can find them.

i try not to demand an overwhelming amount of internal consistency from my sci-fi. but it bothered me that it never occurred to anyone 'hey, remember when we injected little human/cylon girl blood into the dying president and it miraculously cured her cancer? maybe we should try that again'

(yeah the first instance was a total cop-out, but still)

Those podcasts were interesting for the background info, but RDM's "Nerd Playboy" schtick with the official scotch of the podcast and cigars was really tiresome.

RDM has helped create my favorite sci-fi TV ever (TNG, DS9, BSG), but I agree that he goes to stupid places when left completely to his own devices (his cameo in the NYC epilogue of BSG, for example).

Also there are a lot of similarities between DS9 and BSG that make me feel like he's not exactly a bottomless well of cool science fiction story ideas.

I say all of this as a Star Trek/Battlestar Galactica superfan who ultimately thinks Ron Moore is a weenie.

;_;

his cameo was maybe three hundred on the list of terrible things about the NYC scene in order of terribleness

1-299 is absolutely everything about it

full disclosure VG i probably look more like RDM than anyone else itt so i'm hating myself too

lol

get a haircut spacehippy

i would but now i have to watch caprica

He reminds me of the guy from King of Kong.

-show would've been a million times better if it were 12 eps a season. the one-off eps were mostly 100% useless wastes of time
-i'm generally ok with the second half of s4, but it still feels like it doesn't have to be there.
-putting them on anOTHER earth, also called earth, is the worst copout of all time. basically they only had two choices for a decent ending -- have them settle on primitive earth and become the earth of today, or the twilight zone route of having them find earth to see that we've blown it up -- and they went with BOTH. urhg
-there were many scenes that resulted in me saying "an angel did it"
-the only type of person in this world who would think that "all along the watchtower" is some mythical holy song that bob dylan used his magical holy brain to conjure up from the hands of god himself is the type of person who would choose to look like this

Yes to all of this.

I really liked Caprica, but then it didn't get a lot of episodes before it got cancelled so it didn't really have a chance to go off the rails the way BSG did.

ok first half hour of caprica is fucking nuts

also can we discuss blood and chrome and how utterly pointless it sounds, do we really need a whole series of young adama at this point

oh this is only the beginning xp

like what you're watching now are the least insane things you are going to see on Caprica

Caprica was better than it should have been, but apparently still not interesting enough to not get cancelled. They made some really obvious weird choices when they realized it was going to get cancelled. Montage at the end is kind of a "here's where things may have gone if we had time to develop them."

Caprica has ERIC STOLTZ so it's great

I dug Caprica but this thread is mostly me saying over and over that I'm a big dumb stan about pretty much everything so hmph :D

The BSG things that betray Ron Moore's aesthetics rather than his scriptwriting are the.... more questionable

I couldn't get with Caprica, Stoltz and all. the DO YOU SEE? ethnic parallels were like some sub-Negron Complex shit

eric stults pitching today for the padres. could this be important??

only if alfonso soriano is a cylon

right thread?!
xpost

and no way would a cylon have as little plate discipline as soriano does.

that's what they want you to think

ha ha!

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1016271/jeff-samardzija.jpg

and they have a plan

lmao

four or five eps into caprica, BORING

i kind of feel bad for owenf for like steam-train-carrying-on, sorry bro

just reached the break in season 4. had forgotten the planet of the apes ending.

hey don't work hoos, I'm going to have a mammoth catch up soon. Work based stuff has totally taken over and I couldn't devote anywhere near enough time or attention without feeling guilty.

oh, i finished this last night. also watched the 8 minute overview, which shed some light on things.

gave up on caprica btw, so boring

can't believe people saying mean stuff about Scar on here. best episode! made me cry a little :(

WORST

no way it ruled how can you not be moved by starbuck's toast to the fallen OH YES SHE REMEMBERED THEIR NAMES THEY ARE TATTOOED ON HER HEART!!!!

I thought scar was super fun

not as bad as the black market one, but . . .

i'm making a list now...

it was so scary!

I really just disliked Kat.

But that ended well for me.

so uh is it generally considered that this show has the worst finale of any "respected" TV drama from the last decade? marathonned this over the past week and a half and enjoyed much of it, but holy shit that was bad

So you've never heard of Lost?

I still like the ending.

mh--very good point. (I've only watched the first season of Lost to be honest)

Lost and Sopranos ending far more controversial/hated. This one was just disappointing, but at least there were two weaker theologically-fixated seasons setting you up for disappointment.

end of BSG was realizing that Ron Moore & co were only incrementally better than his ex-coworker Brannon Braga & co and they're all nerds

end of LOST was like someone shitting in your mouth

I apologize for this vivid image but I felt that it was really bad.

Lost and Sopranos ending far more controversial/hated

Sopranos ending is perhaps the best ending of any show in TV history

tbf he said controversial

I know I just get kind of AlexinNYC "honor the fire" about the Sopranos

surely most people have come around on the Sopranos ending anyway

at least The Sopranos were anticlimatic in its very nature

yeah wtf the Sopranos ending is the best, only one that comes close is The Shield

we should poll best tv endings ever (Newhart, Sopranos, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H* etc)

but as to the two preceding seasons, yeah they were weaker but there was still the occasional worthwhile episode there--the New Caprica stuff was great and perhaps from a better series, season 3 finale was pretty good. tbh the only part of 4.5 I thought was any good was the brief mutiny arc

also i know it's a dead horse but the use of "all along the watchtower" is the corniest shit ever, and that's even before ron moore's fear of what his roomba might do

(xp, although yes there should really be a poll)

tbh the only part of 4.5 I thought was any good was the brief mutiny arc

I agree - but even this was diminishing returns/rehash of previous storyline

My feeling is BSG started as a really good sci-fi show (with sometimes clumsy/sometimes effective overlays of Bush-era topicality) and got mired in increasingly nutty Mormon mysticism. (I know Mormon allegory was the starting point for the series, but the more that became the storyline, the lamer the whole thing got.)

Ron Moore is mormon? OG series had way more mormon shit in it, everything in the new one just seemed to be allusions to that afaict

Glen Larson, creator and producer of the first show, is a member of the Church of Latter-day Saints. He based much of the first series on Mormon cosmology. Was there a concerted effort to move away from that in this version?

Moore: Not specifically, no. I looked at the original series as mythos and the way it dealt with religion as sort of a global sense. I was aware that Glen had used Mormon influences and how he had created the cosmology, but I'm not that familiar with Mormon belief or practice.

The BSG finale was better than I expected, given how bad season 3 and 4 were. The action-y moments were good, pretty tense. The very end was incredibly stupid, no two ways about that.

xp

Yeah, but like he says there, it's pretty much in the DNA for it to have this mystical side(however Mormon it may be). Which was my least-favorite thing about it from the start, and it ended up sort of swallowing the series whole.

the half-assed mysticism definitely destroyed the show. I think the problem was that a bunch of good ideas were introduced at the outset without any real understanding of their implications, and then as the show went on and they realized they weren't going to get cancelled, they got buried under the weight of trying to make up explanations for things that had originally just been tossed off.

cylons being monotheistic, for example.

I just recently watched BSG 1/2 in the last week and a half. It became an obsession and drove my family mad, me watching four plus episodes a day. I couldn't believe how ridiculous the Baltar/Caprica 6 scenes seemed at first and how haunting and hypnotic they became as the series drew me in. A+ for the first two seasons.

Cylons and their creepy sex fantasies and mating with humans, that had a few unexplored angles

we should poll best tv endings ever (Newhart, Sopranos, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H* etc)

― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier)

Should probably wait for Breaking Bad to finish before conducting such a poll.

blackadders always ended well

Died/died/became king by mistake/died

exactly

mookie otm

Lost and Sopranos ending far more controversial/hated. This one was just disappointing

i was not disappointed, i wanted to kick the ending into a burning house and then set it on fire fifty more times and then at least chase ron moore around with a torch, not sure where i'd go from there but i think it'd be a fun day

also tbh i didn't mind lost's ending cause they just forced themselves into so many corners and none of it surprised me and at least it had its moments (vincent), where BSG's entire last season is just FUCK IT LET'S DO ALL OF OUR IDEAS CAUSE WE'RE SHINY SHOOTING STARS

I just finished watching Deep Space 9 (for which Ronald Moore also did a lot of scripts, though Ira Behr and Robert Wolfe were the most important writers), and I guess if there's a lesson to be learned it's that you shouldn't bring theology into sci-fi?

(WARNING! SOME MAJOR SPOILERS FOR DS9 WILL FOLLOW!)

I mean, the basic concept of god/gods in a fairly realistic sci-fi setting can lead to interesting directions, but if in the end it all boils down "it was god's plan all along", or "good gods defeat evil gods", then that's just pointlessly simplistic and stupid. Thankfully in DS9 this was never the most important plotline, and its gods were at least given a sort of a mundane explanation, so the theological bits didn't ruin the whole series like they did with BSG.

Anyway, having watched DS9 after BSG, it's pretty interesting to spot the similarities. (I think Ron Moore brought some other DS9 writers too to BSG alongside him?) Besides the "god in space" thing there's a lot of similar themes in them:

* You have the idea of standing alone against a much bigger force whose moralities you cannot understand;
* the paranoia of not knowing whether the enemy is among us;
* a member of the enemy race working for the good guys without even knowing s/he's a part of that race, and when s/he does find out, that forces him/her to choose where his/her loyalty lies;
* the idea of terrorists being the good guys, while the series still questions the morality of terrorism;
* a biological weapon that can destroy the whole enemy race, and the question whether or not its genocide to do that in a situation where your survival is at stake;
* both series also end with a reconciliation between the two warring races rather than the other totally defeating the other.

In retrospect BSG almost feels like Moore took the best ideas from DS9 and ran with them without the constraints set by the Star Trek universe and the Star Trek ethos. OTOH, maybe those constraints were actually a good thing, because DS9 never went indulgent and insane like BSG did, so in the end it was the better series.

"I guess if there's a lesson to be learned from BSG and DS9"

I like that it was pretty clear that the wormhole aliens were never actually gods, but just a non-corporeal species that the Bajorans thought controlled everything. Stupid Bajorans.

Overall, definitely better than BSG, but I'm biased towards it, it's one of my favorite TV series ever.

At first it seemed clear they was just wormhole aliens, but later on in that series between that and them being gods started to get blurry, especially when Sisko himself started to believe in their prophecies. And the Pah-Wraiths were essentially treated as demons: they could posssess bodies with possessed person's voice and eyes changing like in Ghostbusters, they were able to live inside objects and get free when the object was broken, they could be summoned with a spellbook (which needed to be anointed with blood), etc. So by the end, even if the Prophets were still technically wormhole aliens and Pah-Wraiths were corrupted wormhole aliens, in practice they were treated like good and evil gods in a fantasy story... Which I don't think fits Star Trek at all, since Star Trek is all about shades of gray. Even the Dominion turned out to be not beyond redemption!

And that, I think, was the biggest problem with the gods in both DS9 and BSG. Both series are very much about morally imperfect beings, not about good vs. evil, so inserting god/gods who are (by definition) always right into those stories is ill-fitting.

"but later on in the series the line between that and them being gods"

As aggravating as the ending was, I think BSG overall did the moral ambiguity and terrorism themes better than DS9, since they didn't have the constraints of the ST universe on them. I agree that both series kind of mucked up the idea of using these Gods in the endgame.

BSG overall did the moral ambiguity and terrorism themes better than DS9

I'm not so sure about this? IMO, for a Star Trek show, DS9 was pretty bold in exploring the morality of its main characters, especially Kira. (Though Sisko did some pretty dodgy things too, like at the end of the Maquis arc, and in "In the Pale Moonlight") There were several eps where Kira's terrorist past came back to haunt him, including the one where a survivor of her resistance cell's attacks took revenge on them. And as dramatic as the New Caprica arc in BSG was, I think its effect as a terrorist analogue was lessened by the fact that, A) all Cylons on New Caprica were essentially enemy combatants, there were no "civilian" Cylons, and B) at this point the Cylons couldn't really die. Okay, the Cardassians in DS9 (especially the ones who took part in the occupation of Bajor) were mostly treated as an evil empire, but the show did have its fair share of sympathetic Cardassians, and it was made clear that the attacks carried out by the Bajoran resistance cells had civilian casualties too. That was the whole point of the aforementioned revenge episode.

I guess if there's a lesson to be learned it's that you shouldn't bring theology into sci-fi?

There are loads of counter-examples of this in SF literature (by far the best medium for proper SF imo), off the top of my head I suggest you read Olaf Stapledon's astounding Star Maker.

But yeah if you want to examine these themes via the medium of spaceships probably best to think through exactly what your point is before you start bringing god into it (nb not seen DS9).

Yeah, I was gonna add a qualifier that "you shouldn't bring theology into sci-fi into mainstream audiovisual sci-fi", but forgot. I guess the problem with BSG and DS9 is not that they feature god/gods per se, but that the gods are used only as simplistic plot devices. In the former, god serves as a literal deus ex machina, and in the latter, while the "gods"/wormhole aliens are shown to do some dodgy things (particularly with Sisko's mother), in the end their plotline boils down to a simple "good gods versus evil gods" conflict. I don't think either series had any long-term plan when they first introduced their theological elements, which may be why (like you said) they end up with such stupid results.

Kubrick's 2001 does a more than serviceable job of incorporating religious themes (or at least, religious experience, although I definitely tried to interpret the film along theological lines when I was a young'un). Granted Kubrick is exceptional, the vast majority of film/TV sci-fi doesn't even bother and perhaps that's all for the best. otoh WHO MOURNS FOR ADONIS?

i am basically doing what hoos was doing 2 years ago. i'm currently at season 2, episode 2, so i read the thread until a hoos was at that moment, then stopped reading.

the smash-cut w/timpanis at the start of every ep, what's that about? Idgi

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:29 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^

ugh I know, you get the little 'they have a plan bit' then the 'last week' then the bit of actual real show (with no indicator of when it's started) and then the title, the the timpanis and episode spoilers.

there are a LOT of cheering/back slapping moments.

Not entirely sure how down I am with 'frack' yet. Don't think I ever will be.

i have been a little 420'd out while watching but can i just say that i LOVE the template for the opening of each episode? "The Cylons were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many copies. And they have a plan." to a quick flashback, then a present-day scene opener, THEN the opening credits/music, THEN the intense flash-forward to the upcoming events of the episode, THEN it starts. takes about 10 minutes every time and i love the predictable rhythm of it. it's so comforting.

i really hate "frack". i will never be down with frack.

otm

frak is awful. it makes them sound like kids at the dinner table using euphemistic pseudo-swears in front of their parents, so self-conscious.

season 2 is excellent, probably the series at its best imo.

there is something about this show that's worse than frack.

WTF is up with the hotshot pilots (who i like!) moonlighting as interrogators? even putting aside the torture stuff, it's just weird! in the next episode is it going to be revealed that they also serve as the ship's dry cleaning team? the whole thing comes across like a middle school play where some kid got sick the night before the performance so the lead has to play two different roles and wear a charlie chaplin fake mustache

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMainCharactersDoEverything

has to play two different roles

mmm

hahaha
ok, yes, i know that sounds ridiculous in the context of the show, but

I'M NOT A CYLON OK

but someone on ILX is. but i'm not sure who just yet.

It's me.

I know because I have a plan.

So pissed that this came down off of netflix. I was casually going along watching it and then when I heard they were taking it down I ramped up my watching a whole ton, hoping to squeeze everything in. But I threw in the towel somewhere just before the end of season 2.

lucky you

But end of season 2/beginning of season 3 is the peak.

yeah I agree actually just being snarky

as long as you don't get as far as the watchtower

i'm up to battlesode S02E16. in general i'm still enjoying the show a lot, but i'm starting to notice a lot more flaws and annoying things, and the eyeroll-to-battlesode ratio is increasing at condition 1-worthy rates.

the particular way that religion is used to drive the story is annoying. i'm cool with the quest for earth, but i don't like how it's actually executed. there's no logic to it. there are a series of episodes in season 2 that essentially serve as rpg-style fetch quests - first you must find the mystic arrow of apollo! (an episode or two is dedicated to this quest. everyone levels up). NOW, you must take the arrow of apollo to the legendary tomb, whose location is unknown! (an episode or two is dedicated to this quest. everyone levels up). it's just really lame. there's no logic to what they're doing, they're just following scripture, and so there's zero satisfaction when they actually accomplish their goals. i want the arrow to accidentally guide them to venus and kill the exploration ship so that everyone decides to renounce the religion all at once.

why did they change the theme song from season 1? the new theme song is terrible.

from what i understand, one of the last battlesodes i watched (s2e14) is regarded as the very worst. it's the one that introduces two women that lee has fallen in love with, only one of them only exists in about 3 or 4 seconds of footage that gets chopped up and shown about 30-40 times during the hour. the whole thing depends on making you care about these relationships with lee, but they never bother to provide any context or background, and i'm almost certain we'll never see either of his spurned lovers again. it doesn't help that they seemed to have rented out a replacement director from a 1992 episode of one life to live to take charge - the look and feel, pace, editing, everything is embarrassing. battlesode s2e15 is similarly bad in that it's a detour that doesn't do anything to advance the plot.

i love this show!

yeah there are a handful of one-off episodes that apparently the network was pushing them to do but by and large they all suck and are stupid. I remember Scar being one of the better ones. The boxing one is lol.

also *spoilerz* the fact that the president was saved using *controversial* embryonic stem cell research is so lol mid-2000s.

did they have a Terry Schiavo episode I forget

They had an abortion episode, but I don't think they had a Tery Schiavo episode.

The one about Lee's tender, deep, totally unexplored love affair with a random space prostitute is dreadful (maybe s2e14?).

I think I blocked a fair number of these from my memory

I remember the abortion one - which was at least tangentially relevant to a steadily declining refugee population but yeah most of them are better left forgotten

oh, "Black Market". you the worst

It's true, this show is basically an RPG. Apollo in particular spends a lot of time experimenting with the job system.

Yeah Black Market. That was the one that was truly dreadful.

also pretty much the entire BSG crew has been in a situation where one or more people are holding a gun to their heads. lee alone has had a gun pointed him at least 30 times at this point. they don't even look nervous anymore

haha they use that trope more and more as the show goes on - so many cliffhangers with guns pointed

the last season probably has like 50 mexican standoffs

tbf karl you are getting to the very best part imo

i imagine that by the fourth season:

- "previously on battlestar galactica" - shots of intense good/bad/ugly-style showdown, guns drawn and pointed at all participants
- battlesode commences; lee, helo, and sharon are all pointing guns at each other and shouting. suddenly a door slams open. a three new gun barrels enter the room, pointed at lee, helo, and sharon, but we can't see who is holding them just yet
- future vision stream! scenes from the forthcoming episode - closeups of guns drawn and people shouting at each other. sweat
- battlesode commences for real this time
- we finally see who is entering the room. turns out the new arrivals are ANOTHER set of three people with guns drawn on each other. this time it's the XO, starbuck, and the chief. the chief points the gun at the XO, who points his gun at starbuck, who points her gun at the chief. as they shuffle into the new room, they notice the situation with lee, helo, and sharon, and react accordingly. the XO points his other weapon at lee, starbuck targets sharon, and the chief targets helo. lee, helo, and sharon respond in kind with their extra weapons.
- paranoia. more sweat. it's getting hot. shouting.
- the two triangle shaped standoffs have coalesced into a hexagon showdown. but the temperature is positively suffocating. they agree to move to a larger room - but the door is too small! (commercial)
- they unpack their hexagon showdown to a single file line. this is difficult because they need to be arranged so that each participant is surrounded by two potential enemies. the argument about who is or is not a Cylon transforms into an argument about how the formation should change. (commercial)
- they finally emerge into a larger room and resume their hexagon showdown shape. but the cylons attack and it's condition 1 so they all have to go back to their stations so that they can be ready to point their gun at someone else's head

Don't forget flashbacks to troubling memories from someone's past.

the particular way that religion is used to drive the story is annoying. i'm cool with the quest for earth, but i don't like how it's actually executed. there's no logic to it.

I don't want to spoil anything, but you should ne prepared to feel this way a lot more as the series goes on... :(

"ne" = "be"

yeah, i'm definitely expecting/dreading it.

There's a transcript somewhere of a roundtable with a lot of the cast and writers that they did while the show was still going. As I recall, Jaime Bamber very forcefully argued that the show had made a terrible mistake humanizing the Cylons, and basically everyone agreed that "33" was the high point of the show and they were never going to do anything that worked quite as well.

that sounds too good to be true

I doubt "it was all downhill from the first episode" was a genuinely popular opinion to espouse on-set

33 definitely was the most effective episode. It's too bad, they probably could have done a few episodes about that first crucial flight from the Cylons.

just finished rapture (season 3, battlesode 12).

so everyone is super religious now. fuck. one one hand it occasionally leads to interesting results. i don't mind the cylon religious stuff so much, with lucy lawless trying to see the faces of the five, and gaius on his messianic journey (i enjoy thinking about his entire storyline as taking place entirely in his narcissistic genius mind, insanely eating itself). but chief having a religious experience while searching for the eye of jupiter? barf sandwich. and even seemingly non-religious characters like lee buying into it (the whole intense firefight with the cylons is necessary because they're trying to stall while chief searches for a religious icon). it's just really, really bad, and as the show goes on it dedicates more and more time to it.

i don't ask for much. i only want three things. i want to watch adama and his crew battle/run away from cylons. i want to watch the cylons do things on their (super bright, oversaturated) ship. i want to watch the humans and cylons struggle with themselves over what it means to be having babies together. that's it. i rue the day that roslin saw the light. i hate watching chief gradually turn into the vice-president of his local Promisekeepers group. i hate learning that starbuck is a cosmic gamechanger foretold by scripture. i hate listening to lee bark out "we have to hold this position til chief finds the eye of jupiter!!!" to the people around him without him following up with "...wait am i high? wtf are we doing here"

i know i'm repeating myself. sorry.

has anyone seen Caprica?

Yes. It was okay, and then it got canceled.

I liked Caprica. Always mean to finish it up on Netflix, missed the last 6 or so episodes. bear in mind it's nothing like BSG, more of a soap opera using the young BSG universe as a backdrop. No space stuff, lots of junk about terrorism, robots and Strange Days.

Hated Caprica, couldnt get into it

Hated all the dumb ethnic/tribal stuff ("Taurans drive like THIS")

Caprica gets ok toward then end and then is immediately cancelled

Yeah, that was my feeling, too. It was just starting to get its bearings and then it was gone.

don't worry, some of the actors have redistributed to other Vancouver-shot science fiction shows

yeah the last few episodes of Caprica got really interesting and then *blip* gone :(

Just got to Season 4. well THAT completely sucked me in again.

https://acoup.blog/2019/11/29/collections-where-does-my-main-battery-go/