Which of the Indiana Jones sequels is the best?

And then we can stop going back and forth on this endlessly on every other movie thread.

Well when you put the choices like THAT...

... it's STILL "Temple of Doom"

Pretty certain we already settled this

Hmph: Movies That Were Probably Made By a Spasm of Six Year-Olds on Acid: The Top 75 Action Films Poll Results Thread

Too much white noise clouding the debate.

Loved it when Indiana hid inside Chicago Bears legend William Perry.

... it's STILL "Temple of Doom"

― WHEY AHR MAH DREGUNS? (DJP), Tuesday, June 5, 2012 12:56 PM (2 minutes ago)

Oh, and also the poll got it wrong.

if lucas and spielberg can both agree that temple of doom was bad, it's like getting bush to agree that iraq was a bad idea, so it's practically settled law by now.

Including the Phantom Menace entry for kicks.

I lied. I included it because it's not the worst entry among these three.

everyone who isn't totally insane thinks the first is best

mmph.

The 2s almost always have it: Frankenstein, Superman, Star Wars, Alien, Star Trek etc.

I used to think Temple of Doom was awesome. But Willie and Short Round just make me u_u now. that being said, Kali Ma is pretty fkn cool. and the eyeball soup and whatnot

but it's probably Junior.

I never said I wasn't insane, Morbs.

The second is the best and Kate Capeshaw is one of my favorite post-screwball screwballs ("Ohh I broke a nail...").

last crusade 4 lyfe

Apparently the only way I like screwball is it if's accompanied by chilled monkey brains.

Gimme your poll.

Why?

Cuz I'm gonna THROW IT UP IN IT

Apparently the only way I like screwball is it if's accompanied by chilled monkey brains.

A hair away from the out of context thread.

ahhhh

snake SURPRIIIIZE

oh yeah but that snake/elephant trunk was p lol

hmm I remember a lot more funny things from Doom than Crusade

but then again

JOONYAH

I don't remember Sylvester Stallone in Last Crusade

last crusade is hell boring

Whenever the indentikit valkyrie Nazi is on screen I hope the zeppelin falls on her ("See? Gittee as a schoolboy!" argh fuck you DIE).

Love all three (refuse to acknowledge the existence of The Fridge), going Last Crusade because I saw it in the theater and it blew my mind.

Aryan femme fatale was a babe.

seems her name was Alison Doody.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq359wGhnY1r1xri8o1_400.jpg

if lucas and spielberg can both agree that temple of doom was bad, it's like getting bush to agree that iraq was a bad idea, so it's practically settled law by now.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they both said The Crystal Skull was "the best Indy movie yet!"

Say what you will about Crystal Skull, there were at least a dozen truly memorable indignities on the franchise I could've used in "The Refrigerator"s place.

The 2s almost always have it: Frankenstein, Superman, Star Wars, Alien, Star Trek etc.

Morbz is OTM here, in general (left out Batman lol)

'I'm pretty sure they both said The Crystal Skull was "the best Indy movie yet!"'
spielberg thought it was so bad, he said the refrigerator was his idea to protect lucas.

I guess Morbs counts The Godfather Part II as a chapter in one movie.

Nah, just that the first is better.

Would not be surprised to find that the hoi polloi don't agree with Morbs on the 2's theory.

The 2s almost always have it: Frankenstein, Superman, Star Wars, Alien, Star Trek etc.

Morbz is OTM here, in general (left out Batman lol)

no, only on rare occasions do sequels clearly surpass their predecessors. agree on frankenstein and star trek, but that's about it.

are you serious?

Superman II, The Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Bride of -- leagues better than their predecessors.

http://i2.listal.com/image/264049/600full-step-up-2%3A-the-streets-poster.jpg

superman and superman ii both suck. empire strikes back and star wars are both great. alien is better than aliens.

agree about bride, as i said.

Superman II, Empire, Batman Returns, and the Dark Knight are all better than their predecessors (disagree w Morbz re: Alien)

xp

and Godfather II is better than I

this sort of only applies to non-horror genres tho imho

okay, i'll grant superman ii, but it's not good enough to care about or haggle over, imo

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Terence-Stamp-General-Zod-Photograph-C10101814.jpeg

"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"

i still haven't seen crystal skull. and haven't seen 2 & 3 since i was a kid. voted temple

Batman Returns, and the Dark Knight are all better than their predecessors

these are interesting cases. both of the batman sequels are longer, more ambitious and much more interesting than their predecessors. otoh, they're both a bit shapeless, narratively. i do like them better than what they followed, though they're both messes with GREAT detailing.

oh cool this thread turned into a kevin smith script

do I have to derail this thread with lame Dark Nought jokes

Dork Knight iirc

what me, worry?

the dreck blight

oh cool this thread turned into a kevin smith script

i was bored sunday afternoon, so i watched that hardwicke/seyfried red riding hood flick, which i half enjoyed despite awfulness. then i watched that pegg/frost paul flick, which i half enjoyed despite utter inconsequentiality. then the (drumroll) the game of thrones season finale. which i fully enjoyed, etc.

somewhere amidst this five-hour television orgy, i realized that i am a complete and total nerd and that i should probably own a hellboy t-shirt or something. so sticks and stones...

We. are going. to die.

or, well, four-hour orgy. i only saw half of red riding hood.

alien >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aliens

^truth

it's not a lot of movies that ill say this about but paul could have used a rewrite by kevin smith and/or aaron sorkin.

H4A, I can assure you that your life will be so much more rewarding having never seen Crystal Skull

also temple of doom should have been directed by the guy who did cannibal holocaust. i would have felt less icky watching it.

have never seen The Spiel dissing ToD.

As I've said elsewhere, it has levels of zany sexism and cult xenphobia entirely fitting to a '30s potboiler. A-

(none of them can touch ET, obv)

Temple Of DJP

I have a weird amount of affection for Crystal Skull because the rifftrax for it was one of my all time favorites. Everything about is so absurd, I can't imagine what Spielberg and Lucas were thinking.

you have affection for Rifftrax then? PLEASE? I dunno if I can handle conflating that with love for the Crystal Skull, lol

Last Crusade all the way

anyone who disagrees gets a slap for blasphemy

Blashphemy surely.

*remembers the lengthy Sean Connery impersonation offered by da croup at a Manhattan breakfast place in the summer of '03*

it's not the last time that's happened

and then i remembered my charlemagne...
does anyone speak english?
and this is how we say goodbye in GERMANY!
no tickets
he chose...poorly

I watched the Last Crusade again a few weeks ago and I think it holds up.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4057/4385305706_3c1f44cd58_z.jpg?zz=1

i feel like everyone i know IRL agrees that Last Crusade >>>>> Temple, surprised this is even a question

gooshtepping mohrahns

Last Crusade isn't a movie: it's a cavalcade for Sean Connery. When I watch it (more often than I admit) I skip over everything else.

I hated Last Crusade when it came out and haven't bothered to watch it since.

I shuddenly remembered my Charlemagne: ket my ahrmies be the ROHKS and the trees — and the bahrds in the shky."

i should have sent it to the MARCKSH BROTHERS

favorite moment might be when indy sends the motorcyclist flying, smiles to dad and gets rebuffed

she talkshs in her shleep

it belongs in a MUSEUM!

favorite moment might be when indy sends the motorcyclist flying, smiles to dad and gets rebuffed

― da croupier, Tuesday, June 5, 2012 9:54 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

oh man, totally

"Indiana, let it go."

I dig the fraternity greeting or whatever that he and Marcus exchange.

Voting for Short Round, though "I should've mailed it to the Marx Bros." makes it really close.

Also the part where Kate Capshaw thinks she's picking up a shirt but picks up a giant bat instead. So cool.

how bout when she thinks she's picking up Indy's cock but accidentally pushes a lever

watched last crusade on father's day w my dad once, recommend this

we don't NEED the diary, DAD

having drinks on a zeppelin?

does anyone here speak english? or even ancient greek.

I think da croup and I could do a Dueling Connerys shometyme.

try reading books inshtead of buhrning them

I thought Last Crusade was good when it came out and haven't bothered to watch it since.

this thread turned into a kevin smith script

you'll love our movie polls.

snooch to the booch

like the back of a volkswagen?

so Sir Sean's last film looks to be The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? Maybe he deserves it for slapping all those women.

one time i noticed that Last Crusade and Dogma were on different TV channels at the same time, and so i ended up watching both "no ticket" scenes about 10 minutes apart

can we just post more pictures from step up 2 the streets?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401584_10150493000254499_1713727276_n.jpg

Were there any stickers made up for Temple of Doom?

have never seen The Spiel dissing ToD.

He was "ambivalent" about how far he went w.r.t the violence in the interviews included on the DVD, iirc.

Also the part where Kate Capshaw thinks she's picking up a shirt but picks up a giant bat instead. So cool.

how bout when she thinks she's picking up Indy's cock but accidentally pushes a lever

I like the part where she pushes the statues tittays and thinks she's pushing a real-life midget gidget's boobies.

and her grimace!

http://media.filmschoolrejects.com/images/doom_bridge.jpg

Further evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkNHxQ3aqAg

The one nod to Raiders seems very obligatory. Doom wins the #1 slot for the very thing Alfred likes most about it (I think). Takeaway: modern audiences need to get over themselves, because Crystal Skull is not so clearly worse than the other two sequels.

SHIA LA BOEUF AS MARLON BRANDO IS THE WORST THING EVER SO HELP ME I WILL FITE ANYONE WHO SAYS DIFFERENT

also

ALIUMS.

GODDAMN ALIUMS

It was the part where Indy jokes about Cat Blanchett's horrible accent that I realized all hope was lost.

Why is it so difficult for people to process the idea that a movie series that recalled the in vogue movie styles of the eras the movies were set in would switch to sci-fi when it leapt into the '50s?

i have no problem w the sci-fi aspects. only object to the shitmovie aspects.

Shia swinging from trees like an idiot monkey.

RIght, which go ahead and say as much shit against Shea O'Beouf as you want. I was right alongside every last single person in my theater screaming with horror at the suggestion that he was going to pick up Indy's fedora at the end.

I slept through the last half of Crystal Skull at 8pm on a Saturday night.

it was months before I saw how it ended

why because I didn't care

the end

Prequel: I've only seen Last Crusade once and haven't ever watched it a second time.

Because I thought it pretty much blew then.

The end ... ?

well that explains your boring challops about Crystal Skull being better than Last Crusade

Not shallops if it's true.

Celtics steal one!!!!! YES!!!!

Which I only saw Crystal Skull once too, so they're basically equal.

xpost lol

Not shallops if it's true.

challops is often true. still challops.

wrong thread! Sorry.

I want to rail against the kind of mindset that can go:

Raiders: Classic
Crusade: Awesome
Doom & Crystal Skull: Dumbness

But I figure I lack credibility.

i mean there's not a HUGE gulf of quality (certainly not of intelligence) between Crusade and Doom, their respective best moments are probably comparable, but one has a lot more dragging it down than the other imo. and of course Crystal Skull is worthless, c'mon man.

agree. while i love raiders, like temple of doom, and think the last crusade is just okay, it seems to me that they're all well-made adventure movies. what causes me to pick one over another has more to do with the vagaries of my particular taste than with any sense of progressive deterioration in real quality.

the crystal skull is another matter entirely. that one's like watching used toilet paper.

24 sheets per second.

Fair or not, I def see preference between either Doom or Crusade as a telling character trait and don't much trust anyone who picks the latter's sense of humor.

what are the odds you even remember any of the jokes from Crusade after 20 years or whatever since the one time you saw it? Doom has some laughs but the Capshaw comic relief stuff is so painfully weak.

Indy was named after the dog. Ha.

i've flipped past Crystal Skull on USA or some similar station twice and it's always been the same nondescript scene. should watch it eventually just to be more informed. though nothing bothered me as much as the face-melting in raiders, temple just felt too gross on the whole when i was a kid, and even watching it recently it just felt kind of shrill and ugly.

eric likes making fun of asians and women

i remember being in the toy aisle of a walmart when Crystal Skulls came out and seeing the Laboof toys and learning his characters name, and ever since that day, before even seeing the movie, we'd forever yell "Mutt Williamss was the dog'sh name!" in a Connery voice

xpost No, I like movies to do it for me.

seriously, i'm saying you'll love it but you might as well take the pepsi challenge and watch Crusade again, if only to be less Morbsy in your attacks on it

though nothing bothered me as much as the face-melting in raiders, temple just felt too gross on the whole when i was a kid, and even watching it recently it just felt kind of shrill and ugly.

funny you should say that. i was 14 when i saw raiders and was a bit shocked by the face-melting. what's funny is that it wasn't so much that the scene disturbed me (i thought the effects was pretty cool), but rather that i thought such content might be "inappropriate" in a PG movie. i remember having a discussion w my mom about it afterwards. lol me, earnestly wringing my hands from an early age...

the heart-ripping in temple of doom was even more intense, imo. not so much the gore, which was pretty heavy duty, but the amped-up sadism of the whole scene, what with all the shrieking and cackling and flames and so on. that did get under my skin a little. it is a "shrill and ugly" movie. i can't deny that, but the manic nastiness gives it a real edge. it's like a carnival after dark: a little seedy and off kilter, but all the more thrilling for that.

Let's discuss this in terms of torture porn how about

I had to look away when they're eating the snakes in Temple.

Crystal Skull gets alot of shit, and it deserves it, but the aliens are like 10% of the problem. It really isn't a new Indiana Jones movie so much as a greatest hits album where all the songs have been re-recorded and the one new shitty track they added is longer than the rest of the album.

i wonder if pg-13 would have ever happened if not for spielberg

i don't think it would have. that's the CW, anyway. i remember the stir that poltergeist, gremlins and the temple of doom caused. not only were they pushing hard at the moment's boundaries with regard to violent, gory content, they were doing so in movies aimed explicitly at a grade-school audience. compared to raiders of the lost ark, temple of doom comes on like a kid's flick, with gaudy colors, cartoonish action and pacing, grossout gags and a preteen co-star. i remember reading speculation about the academy's apparent unwillingness to really challenge spielberg on these movies, and arguments in favor of the creation of a new rating suddenly sprang up everywhere.

it's just funny that this rating that pretty much every blockbuster has now was created just to deal with one guy's work

And now there are, like, three PG movies released every year.

Temple. Duh.

Give Spielberg this: in two movies more than 25 years apart he finds time to treat Karen Allen like shit twice. Remarkable consistency.

it is happening again

Why doesn't Indiana Jones rip out Kate Capshaw's heart during the ceremony? That always confused me.

I want Lucas to insert Morbs in "Temple of Doom," ripping out everyone's heart.

That's what ilx is for.

Morbla Ram

He betrayed Shiva Mo Collier.

The Rolling Stones are mine, Dr. Jones!

http://media.filmschoolrejects.com/images/raiders_boulder.jpg

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Rolling Stone!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i can do a pretty mean sean conz just sayin guys

also the hitler autograph joke is p funny

i kinda think the first 30 mins of TOD is as good/better than anything else in the series, but the rest is pretty bad

"No ticket"

Superman II, The Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Bride of -- leagues better than their predecessors.

― go down on you in a thyatrr (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 5, 2012 8:52 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Superman I is more majestic. Superman II is more fun and enjoyable but it's also more stupid and tacky.

http://media.filmschoolrejects.com/images/doom_bridge.jpg
Further evidence.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, June 6, 2012 2:36 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

unfortunately no other shot in the movie is this good.

needs General Zod blowing the bridge with eye lasers

add 'Lover of SMART Superman Movies' to Matt Armstrong's CV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdNwaa7w3q8

That I think of "Anything Goes" as the high point of the whole series might mean I'm not riding the same wavelength as Spielberg-Lucas.

i remember the dinner scene in Temple being a word-or-mouth playground legend among elementary school kids before a lot of us got the chance to actually see the movie.

"I had bugs for lunch."

Seeing Temple of Doom in the cinema aged six was the most exciting experience of my life to date.

I used to "kali ma" my little sister when she annoyed me, she'd run away crying, lol

Kali maaaa... SHUTI DE

USA was running a marathon of all 4 movies today, was intermittently tuning into them w/ family members and mentioned that i'd encountered someone really adamant that Temple is better than Last Crusade and everyone was bewildered by the notion

It is clearly better.

Maybe he likes older women.

lol @ refrigerator perry references upthread

I dunno why everyone singles the opening sequence out as evidence of Crystal Skull's awfulness. The whole nuclear test site sequence was imo the most salvageable part of the movie, whereas like the monkey chase scene or those GODDAM CHEESY LOOKING CGI ANTS, or basically any scene w/ Shia Thebeef opening his damn mouth were just like (facepalm, weeps a bit).

shhh, don't think about it, it's not worth the pain

add 'Lover of SMART Superman Movies' to Matt Armstrong's CV

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:20 AM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"less stupid" /= "SMART"

Superman has lyrical, classic images like baby Supe lifting the car, superman outrunning the train, the kansas countryside etc; II has people being thrown into pinball machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG3isfUKPb0

As someone who actually likes terrible brainless action movies, Shia and The Monkeys was precisely where all of the goodwill I had towards the movie ran out and I just wanted to punch it in the dick

I enjoyed a lot of the rest of it, because I'm the type of dude who enjoyed Catwoman

also the palpable sense of "I am some hot shit right here" exuding off of TheBeef in every single fucking frame was probably the most off-putting cinematic experience I've had aside from a little dog Transformer humping Megan Fox's leg

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

And here was me worried it was going to be close.

still too close tbh

I brought this on myself. And now, let us never speak of Indiana Jones ever again.

moranz

2 jokesters

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5z6jgefNi1r4qlp5o1_500.jpg

what an awkward still to put on the cover

"So wait, are we expected to go see a film staring some Nazi?"

I'm the type of dude who enjoyed Catwoman

― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Sunday, June 17, 2012 5:28 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark

dude, really

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNlmRId2FVQ

one on one! one on one!

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/530000_10151330144679988_1421059142_n.jpg

agh... so wrong

there are 11 star trek films and seven planet of the apes films!

five superman movies too

i thought die hard 2 was universally (and correctly) reviled

Jurassic Park III was quite a bit better than The Lost World imo

also wow they sure love their rocky movies

JP3 much better than JP2.

i thought die hard 2 was universally (and correctly) reviled

― adam, Thursday, August 2, 2012 9:44 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Huh?

yes, all the Lord of the Rings movies are pretty much perfect

apparently i need to see blade 2

mad max fans need a good talking to. DEATH TO THUNDERDOME

Mad Max lacked ZOD!

who in the world thinks Rocky 2 is just as good as 3

Matrix 2 nowhere near as bad as Matrix 3.

apparently i need to see blade 2

― da croupier, Thursday, August 2, 2012 6:05 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

u dont imo

matrix 2 and 3 are both so bad that you shouldn't be able to see either at this scale

matrix 2 was so bad that I've still not seen Matrix 3 and I see a lot of awful shit

I think they love Star Trek 1 & 3 way too much, other than that they seem pretty on the mark regarding films I've seen (everything except the Rockies, the second and third Planet of the Apes, and the first Mad Max)

Matrix 2 had a lot of defensible scenes, stuff that was interesting to watch. Matrix 3 had nothing.

yes, all the Lord of the Rings movies are pretty much perfect

If you like Lord of the Rings, you'll love Lord of the Rings! They look like they're given an 80% rating, anyway?

da croupier - if you enjoyed Blade, then run don't walk to uh Netflix or whatever.

If you like Lord of the Rings, you'll love Lord of the Rings!

nah. it goes 1st >>>> 2nd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd

Blade 2 is p. dope

all i remember about Blade 2 is that Luke Goss was in it

I'm not saying Matrix 2 was as good as the first, but the drop in quality from 2 to 3 was WAY bigger than the drop from 1 to 2.

they kind of blended together for me. I guess the third one did have about ten hours of shitty cgi sentinel battles

wow another nutjob who thinks Doom is better than Crusade: http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/vulture-ranks-all-28-steven-spielberg-films-worst-best.html?mid=twitter_vulture

Rankings all over the place, but that's one of the bright spots.

Tho I do admire the salt it takes to rank War of the Worlds above Close Encounters.

yeah brass balls

And turns out agreeing on Spielberg's worst isn't that difficult. I've never seen anyone not choose one of those last four films.

Caught the episode of South Park recently which deals with the topic of the last film pretty well.

agree that Amistad is better than I thought at the time and how good Hanks is in SPR.

I had bugs for lunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iGmwmHePI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CXcRXtaEtg

^Has anyone sampled Connery's "The floor's on fire!" in a dance song?

this thread is like the bat that Kate Capshaw picks up

This thread betrayed Shiva.

apparently Temple of Doom is a breakup movie

http://grantland.com/features/explaining-indiana-jones-temple-doom/

Well yeah, it broke up Spielberg and Amy Irving.

tsk tsk, even tho you didn't read it, you should know

From 1985 to 1989 Spielberg was married to actress Amy Irving.

I just found out last week that part of the whitewater rapids scene was shot on the South Fork of the American River near Coloma (not far from Sacramento)

kinda neat

I play football and holiday with hot nazi girls cousin he won't introduce us

what a jerk

Man, some terrible blue screen/rear projection in Last Crusade.

i'll take Things I've Never Cared About for $100, Alex

cool

It's just distracting, since the FX of the first two, especially along those lines, are pretty solid. Morbs, maybe you know: why did the look of late 80s Hollywood look so bad? Makeup, lighting, etc. Sort of ... greasy and sweaty? Film stock? Drugs?

Made for VHS

Some shonky effects in Temple of Doom as well.

mine car dummy shots are hilar

what are the bad FX in the last crusade? that zeppelin scene?
actually really enjoyed the last crusade when i watched it last year (plenty of nostalgia there, of course, but it was pleasant to revisit)

Last Crusade has the best screenplay of the original three, lots of really witty dialogue and the father/son relationship is very well drawn, but I prefer the other two anyway.

Oh, tons of fun. But basically any vehicle chases. Cars, boats, planes, blimps, trains, etc. Plus blades, animals on the circus train. Pretty frequent.

Xpost

Relevant list? [huge]
http://i.imgur.com/o1n7Dn9.png

Xpost Invisible bridge illusion at end is great though.

xpost: weird it got compressed, maybe this works:
https://i.redd.it/epub0ba5st8x.png

What is that measuring?

I've grown to love Raiders slightly more, but Last Crusade was my definitive Indy movie as a kid, since it was the only one of the original three I saw in theatres. I had watched the hell outta the first two on cable/VHS, so that by the time LC was released, it had been built up into a major Event in my life (if my family didn't go on opening night, we definitely went opening weekend), and it didn't disappoint.

I really do think that the Indy movies were my Star Wars, which always felt more like my older cousins' thing (I remember them being super pumped to go see Jedi when it was released and me being told I was too young to go) and, even if I do like them as films (talking about the original trilogy, of course), I never fully embraced or cared about to the degree of seemingly every other male born after 1964 or thereabouts.

don't know much about the 'look' of late '80s Hollywood product (except i generally prefer film to DCP, of course).

BBC showed all four over Easter.

I thought TEMPLE OF DOOM would be worth trying again. Sadly I was wrong - it was actually worse than I remembered. A film they wouldn't make now, and on this occasion that's a good thing.

KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL I saw for the first time. Remarkably bad. Sad that something that started so terrifically was reduced to this. I ended up wondering what had happened to basic action storytelling from c.1981 to 2008 - such a decline.

I didn't watch the other two, which I'm surer than ever are the best.

I ended up wondering what had happened to basic action storytelling from c.1981 to 2008

Crystal Skull has a good first 40 minutes or so - it only starts to go downhill after LaBeouf turns up

no the only good bit is when the communists encounter the aliens and afterwards, all the indiana stuff is rubbish as always

hoping something similar happens towards the end of CHERNOBYL (2019)

raiders
crusade

temple

skulls

formatting ate the six pages of a gap i put in before skulls

formatting recognises they're all bad

i think this is the longest i've seen an indie thread go without a defense of temple of doom

i was gonna but look who needs the beasting

In a thousand years even Temple of Doom may be worth something

my favorite of the four

One part that made me laugh on last rewatching Raiders was the map room scene, where this elaborate set of clues has to be followed in order to… point at the central building on the map?

and the nazis were digging in the wrong place because.. the staff they were using was too short. but why was it too short? i must have missed that during the basket carrying caper.

annoying that marian's genius, signposted escape-via-drinking-game plan just totally.. came to nothing

Belloq's staff was too long!

too long? surely that cuts against a few national stereotypes

It's revealed a little later. The two sides of the medallion together give the right staff length, and the Nazis only had one side, the one that was burned into the Gestapo guy's hand.

aaand take back one kadam, to honor the Hebrew god whose ark this is

that scene with the imam is my favorite indy scene ever

Sallah bursting into Gilbert and Sullivan.

xp lol yeah, the take back one kadam guy is really great. We should do a poll of indiana jones characters with 5 lines or less

100% the monkey

snake

I loved Dietrich.

"M'sieu? I am...uncomfortable with this...Jewish ritual."

"LOVE YOU" girl

You can hear a few muffled comments from the class as they're filing out.

"He's just off today, must be all that travel."

"Every time I see him he looks more like [something something]"

LOVE YOU girl rules

... and his reaction! ‘Flustered’ I guess.

... and his reaction! ‘Flustered’ I guess.

... and his reaction! ‘Flustered’ I guess.

https://aveleyman.com/Gallery/Titles/t9435.jpg

I rewatched last year for the first time in decades and was v impressed with the presentation of the title, had no memory of that.

xpost: weird it got compressed, maybe this works:
https://i.redd.it/epub0ba5st8x.png

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:06 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Still can’t figure out what this is showing.

imdb score!

Star Trek: The Motion Picture (the “V-Ger” one) apparently scored so low it couldn’t even fit.

Watched TEMPLE OF DOOM last night for the first time in eons. The kid was ready for it.

It's def a good one. I think now I'd probably rank it as the second-best Indy flick, just due to the sheer pacing of the thing (it's a vv fast two hours), with a classic opening leading cleanly into the main storyline without pausing, and a sense of genuine foreboding leading up to the palace sequence. I think it's a relatively *distant* second to Raiders, but that doesn't mean this isn't classic.

The gore isn't that bad here, you take away the sacrifice sequence and there's no much onscreen grisliness. But the tone and atmosphere makes it feel worse. Even the brief scene of Indy going into the black sleep or w/e has a disturbing feel, not to mention the forced blood drinking/voodoo doll torture/whipping scene immediately preceding it. It's crazy that it's not inconceivable a lot of this might get it an R today, forget a PG-13.

Kate Capshaw, not bad. She can be grating sure, but she frequently just simply looks amazing and she plays well off Harrison Ford. A bit of Melinda Dillon in her appearance I think?

Ke Huy Quan is really terrific here, it's a genuinely really fine performance which is funny but somehow doesn't descend into him being an annoying sidekick. It could have been so easy, but he can be very funny and even moving.

I probably need to rewatch it. I saw it when it was first released and was appalled.

Genuinely not sure it’s worth the effort or credibility hit it takes to defend DOOM anymore … but its still the only Indy I ever have any desire to rewatch, in parts or in full

Eric and omar otm

The second is the best and Kate Capeshaw is one of my favorite post-screwball screwballs ("Ohh I broke a nail...").

― go down on you in a thyatrr (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 5, 2012

I'll defend her for playing a cartoon character with totally committed cartoonishness...yet she also imbues a couple lines with unexpected pathos, i.e. explaining how her grandpa was beloved by kids for his magic tricks but died "a very poor man."

Short Round would need to ascend to annoying sidekick

I was told I have a very loud voice after a screening of this in a local beer theater. I shouldn’t have said “oh shit, here come the white people to save them!” so loudly at the end

I always remember Last Crusade getting a lot of (revisionist?) criticism for Last Crusade and what Jeffrey Boam et al did to the characters, but other than making both Brody and Sallah into more comic relief characters(when a lot of their screen time in the first one was to underline the gravitas of the situation), I can’t see it.

Last Crusade is the worst, most bloodless, and most worthless thing Spielberg was ever associated with. Including The Goonies

Last Crusade was terrible, there are two good Indiana Jones films only, the whole "explaining the hat / explaining the snakes" bit was terrible and unnecessary and created a terrible backstory-explaining precedent that was ultimately responsible for midichlorians and Prometheus

Doom revisionism baffling af itt

Last Crusade has plenty of fun set pieces to make the River Phoenix intro and "lol Indy and his dad banged the same Nazi!" forgivable IMO. (It was one of the first four grown-up movies I saw in a theater along with Field of Dreams and Hunt for Red October, my rose-colored glasses for all three will be forever undimmed. Also Star Trek V but I hated it even then.)

Love Temple Of Doom yeah.

Goose-stepping morons such as yourself should try reading books instead of burning them!

the best bit in the first one is how the ark death angels tidy up after themselves, now THAT'S what i call a secret weapon

not a bone in sight! It's like they're the workers who clean up airplanes as the passengers stagger offboard.

no wonder they're so vengeful

I watched Black Rain last night, noticed that Kate Capshaw was in it although not much. I love her in Temple though.

Didn't even know she was Spielbergs wife.

https://i.imgur.com/ebhJLnI.gif

My recollection is her part in Black rain is, based upon her role in Temple of doom, pretty solid subsequent typecasting.

I don't think TOD really steps wrong that much, unless you're not down with its particular "thing", which is understandable. Last crusade is a lot of fun but it's a film afflicted in a lot of key aspects by a lot of the most tedious blockbuster bullshit. For example I don't think turning Brody and Sallah into unserious comic relief characters is a small thing. Their sharpness and incisiveness and sober qualities in the first film really helped sell the whole damn thing. The River Phoenix prologue was pretty bad. The villains are pretty minor league and a lot of it just feels like an effort to overcorrect after TOD.

it's kinda like what was done with the Rise of Skywalker after Last Jedi, though I want to clarify that I think Last Crusade is a good and fun film and not a terrible and stupid one, unlike ROS.

I hadn't seen "Last Crusade" in eons. It's (even) sillier than I remembered it, but it mostly works because a) it's so remarkably efficient - covers all that ground in just 2 hours and seven minutes! - and b) Harrison Ford has absolutely impeccable comic timing. Little glances, half-smiles, furrowed brows, line deliveries and stunts, the goofiness and gags wouldn't work without him. Ford's skills on that front have been on display since the start, but the way he successfully sells everything in this one is just such a joy. My biggest reservations remain a couple of conspicuous FX or green screen shots that even back then probably could have been done better, or at least differently.

Anyway, Ford is 83, how long are they going to wait to give him his lifetime achievement Oscar?

Have you read that thing that does the rounds on bluesky every few years, about Tom Stoppard’s rewrite? It’s fun:
https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/indiana-jones-and-the-last-crusade-learning-from-stoppard/

I think a lot of that can be chalked up to Stoppard's script doctoring, but it discounts on-set changes and the film editing. Ford's always downplayed his contributions and does this grateful gravitas bit for most public appearances, but he's more of a whimsical ad-libber than he'd like to admit

hell of a job switching up the pacing and making a much better movie than the original script would have indicated, though

on bluesky every few years

Bsky And The Temple Of Doom

I wondered how Sallah devolves into a broader ethnic stereotype in Last Crusade. He refer to a tank as a "steel beast" and freaks out about replacing his brother's car as if in the first film he wasn't this sophisticate whom the Nazis considered the best digger in Egypt. Maybe it was Spielberg's punishment for Rhys-Davies becoming Thatcherite.

^^^

I still haven't seen the last couple movies. Should I?

I haven't either, really can't be bothered..

#4 is worth it for Spielberg completists - similar to The Lost World, there are a couple of genuine glimmers of what made the earlier films great. But just a couple, and in between you get some dispiritingly weightless CGI action and some pretty lame narrative choices. You could turn it off around the time Indy heads overseas, and have seen most of the good parts (albeit not enough of Blanchett's enjoyably hammy villain performance).

Ha ha is it Raiders or Last Crusade where the lightning flash on the snake monument makes him yell "aggghhh!" in fright and then sheepishly apologise to Indy, the snake-phobe, who didn't flinch. I'm willing to go with Sallah having brontophobia maybe but c'mon.

(Probably not snake monument... big cat?)

it's this freakish gargoyle face suddenly illuminated by the lightning.

Alfred otm, this also applies in a different way to Brody, who is a vv levelheaded, wary, cool customer in ROTLA. He could have been advising George Smiley in another fictional life. i never really liked those two character shifts whatsoever, it was a really clear thing one can point to in terms of how a 1981 blockbuster might write its characters vs how a 1989 one might.

I liked the 5th one, certainly a lot more than the 4th. There was some criticism that the maguffin was unrealistic and I thought, ‘dude, have you seen the other movies?’.

I've not seen the 5th one and probably won't, it just feels ... unnecessary. Likewise I've only seen "Crystal Skull" the once, and while it was fine, the comparison to "The Lost World" is apt. I recall some years back falling prey to the revisionism and watching "Lost World" again, and no, it's just not that good. Spielberg is a virtuoso, so all of his films have their moments, and even his more middling efforts can still be captivating, but the few times he's off he's really off.

Speaking of screenwriting, Jaymc posted a great interview with Tony Kushner, mostly about the making of "Munich" but also containing the revelation that his initial script for "Lincoln" was 500 pages! Apparently Spielberg was elated, but he was essentially able to sculpt his story out of that solid block of screenwriting marble. Spielberg doesn't get credited as a writer that often, but clearly the guy has a knack for that, too. Just a natural born storyteller.

That article is great, very illuminating (since Last Crusade is a perfect movie and all).

Dial of Destiny fumbles its central human premise which is "If you could go back in time and live differently, what would you do?"

It is funny that Indy has become so dispirited with his life that his answer is momentarily "I'll stay with Archimedes and watch history unfold" and the villain, played by an underutilized Mads Mikkelsen, has decided that he should travel back to get rid of Hitler because while he was a grandiose fool, the reich was good actually

I think the casting for DoD was overall better. Toby Jones has one of those faces that was made to play a 1940s Indiana Jones ally

Ford's always downplayed his contributions and does this grateful gravitas bit for most public appearances, but he's more of a whimsical ad-libber than he'd like to admit

This is true and was even confirmed on The Fugitive. Jane Lynch said they completely rewrote their scene together right before they shot it because he didn’t like the script.

original Star Wars dialogue is probably patient zero for Ford ad-libbing after Carrie Fisher showed up and flat-out said "I'm not reading that" followed by them workshopping their scenes

Apparently Julianne Moore was supposed to be a love interest in "The Fugitive," but Ford nixed that because it made no sense for a guy out avenging his wife to get involved with another woman.

lol such an obviously terrible 90s blockbuster studio note. you can easily imagine that movie and it stinks, both for the reason you outline and because it would clearly drain the momentum out of the movie. interesting that the director's next project, Keanu Reeves in Chain Reaction, revives the "romance on the run" idea.

it would definitely have ended w/Jeroen Krabbe holding a gun to Julianne Moore's head, maybe her kicking him in the balls or something, he releases her, TLJ drops him with a shot.

"I didn't kill my wife"

"I didn't care then, Richard. I care now."

what if he said "my wife" Borat-style the whole movie

peaking of screenwriting, Jaymc posted a great interview with Tony Kushner, mostly about the making of "Munich" but also containing the revelation that his initial script for "Lincoln" was 500 pages! Apparently Spielberg was elated, but he was essentially able to sculpt his story out of that solid block of screenwriting marble. Spielberg doesn't get credited as a writer that often, but clearly the guy has a knack for that, too. Just a natural born storyteller.

The "sentimental" material in A.I. is Kubrick's, the harder stuff is Spielberg's. I always thought his screenwriting credit was decorative but, no, apparently he reshaped the script and wrote the dialogue almost entirely (his other writing credits include Close Encounters and The Fablemans, the latter again with Kushner).

And "Poltergeist"! Spielberg has a mean streak, that's for sure, lol. It was his muscle that enabled "Gremlins" its edge.

For reference, Spielberg in a 2002 interview: "...all the parts of A.I. that people accuse me of sweetening and softening and sentimentalising were all Stanley's. The teddy bear was Stanley's. The whole last 20 minutes of the movie was completely Stanley's. The whole first 35, 40 minutes of the film – all the stuff in the house – was word for word, from Stanley's screenplay. This was Stanley's vision... eighty percent of the critics got it all mixed up... but in fact it was Stanley who did the sweetest parts of A.I., not me. I'm the guy who did the dark center of the movie, with the Flesh Fair and everything else. That's why he wanted me to make the movie in the first place. He said, 'This is much closer to your sensibilities than my own.'”⠀⁣⁣⁣

I remember everyone (in life, not critics) hating the movie when it came out for a variety of reasons. It was enough to dissuade me from seeing it until much later. I had mixed feelings initially, but as I got older and more mature, I went back to it every now and then and grew to appreciate it each time. I think by 2015 or so, I came around to it altogether, and Spielberg really was the right director for it - it's easily my favorite of his films and a masterpiece. I'm not alone in that regard, but it probably still has more detractors than supporters and I wish more people could see how brilliant it really is.

The critical tide has considerably turned. The 2000s were Spielberg's best decade.

and Kubrick, not much of a writer, often claimed screenplay credit for things.

We talking "A.I."? Even if I didn't think it was a masterpiece, it's been a long time since I've seen any serious negative criticism of it and not some knee-jerk immature reaction. It reminds me of a time I was working at a summer camp with a bunch of normies. One night off we all went to see "Unforgiven," and iirc everyone (but me) hated it. "Too slow!" "Not enough action!" Whatever.

I don't agree that the 2000s were Spielberg's best decade, or at least not that they were any better than the previous decades, but it sure has been an interesting run of crowdpleasers and personal detours, huge spectacles and smaller films alike, just about all as deftly made as (if very different from) his formative films.

The teddy bear was Stanley's … The whole first 35, 40 minutes of the film – all the stuff in the house – was word for word, from Stanley's screenplay. This was Stanley's vision...

motherfuckers act like they forgot about Brian

The 1970s is still Spielberg's best decade IMHO, but the 2000s isn't that far behind, partly because he was more prolific:

The 1970s in total: Duel, The Sugarland Express, Jaws, Close Encounters, and even the underrated 1941 (flawed but wonderful set pieces)

The 2000s: A.I. (again my favorite hands down), Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can...but The Terminal is very disappointing (though I have a soft spot for the use of jazz history), I absolutely hated War of the Worlds, have mixed feelings about Munich (some great scenes though), and don't care for the fourth Indiana Jones movie (not as terrible as some make it out to be, but still worthless).

I'll add that Spielberg was a great producer before he decided to make worthless junk out of crappy cartoons like the Flintstones and the Transformers, and I've even preferred the films he's produced over the ones he directed concurrently: see Joe Dante, Robert Zemeckis's earlier movies, even minor films of merit like Batteries Not Included.

Re: Kubrick's writing skills, I don't find anything wrong with his writing at all. I would emphasize he's a brilliant interpreter of strong literary works, and that he typically worked with strong collaborators when coming up with a script (Terry Southern, Arthur C. Clarke, Jim Thompson, Michael Herr, etc.) IIRC the only time he's written original material was for his earliest (and very low-budget) films, minor works compared to his first great and fully realized film, The Killing (which was an adaptation). It's very possible he could have come up with a much better and original story later on, but I don't think he ever had any interest in doing do once he could afford to purchase the rights to literary properties.

Morbs is smiling down today

I absolutely hated War of the Worlds

what??? come on

I wouldn't want a Spielberg filmography without The Terminal even if I don't care for it. I'll take the '00s because he put all he'd learned about how editing and interpreting good scripts into A.I, Catch Me If You Can, War of the Worlds, Munich. If Crystal Skull's the worst of the lot, that's an incredible run.