Mass murder at The Dark Knight Rises premiere in Aurora, Colorado

Live stream of Denver television news here: http://www.9news.com/video/9newsonline.aspx

15 confirmed dead now.

fucking hell. awful.

I clicked on that live stream just in time to hear some Howard Stern douchebag call in posing as the Aurora police chief.

Holy shit! I heard that too... just need to know I wasn't crazy.

jesus fucking christ

turned on that news stream. heard anchorwoman introduce a new interviewee: "you actually have an interesting take on all this because you were watching 'the dark knight' at another theater in denver as this was all happening...." turned off the news stream.

it's a horrible world.

good argument for movie piracy

this shooting is super disturbing. body armor? smoke grenades? multiple weapons? 14 dead and 50 injured. never heard of a spree killing at a theater before. more dead now than columbine. this is fucked.

the smoke granades/flamboyant movie villain/guy waiting until a shooting scene in a movie thing is so disturbing

i wonder if chris nolan will do a stanley kubrick, or is the world a different place now ?

Totally random victims too, sounds like his target was just people in general

^ generally how spree killings work.

worried about copycats in the coming months/years. Most of the school shootings of the 90s/early 00s happened within a few years of each other. this is going to be very damaging to theater business.

apparently bullets went through the walls and hit people in other theatres

the gas grenades were particularly sinister as they kept police and responders from coming in to help until they had gas masks

^ generally how spree killings work.

Yeah, I was just comparing it in my head to columbine or the breivik shootings where there was some sort of defined target.

wonder where "ready availability of weapons" will come in the list of scapegoats that'll be trotted out for this one

about 500 places after "movies are too violent" and "Obama"

Yeah, I was just comparing it in my head to columbine or the breivik shootings where there was some sort of defined target.

In HIS head there will have been some sort of defined target

maybe stretching a lot of definitions here

love how news outlets are falling over themselves in stressing that this is NOT a terrorist attack, just a good old fashioned american mass shooting

Phew, that's a relief, eh?

So horrendous. Would be nice not to have people of various persuasions instantly pouncing on it to support their political arguments but, well.

http://boingboing.net/2011/01/09/why-the-shootings-me-1.html

It'd be great if this lead to changes in attitudes towards guns in the US, but realistically, this is more likely to accelerate the death of movie theaters in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sIiqq66rk

It'd be great if this lead to changes in attitudes towards guns in the US, but realistically, this is more likely to accelerate the death of movie theaters in the US.

about as otm as one could be really

omigod @ local anchor saying last night's screening of TDKR in Colorado "went off with a bang not a whimper."

love how news outlets are falling over themselves in stressing that this is NOT a terrorist attack, just a good old fashioned american mass shooting

― dayo, Friday, 20 July 2012 12:07 (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this always blows my mind. like when it turns out that a guy sending envelopes full of white powder is just some office worker no-one gives a shit anymore.

I think it's possible to be firmly pro-gun control without believing anything less than a total ban will have much bearing on the kind of determined lunatic who procures body armour and tear gas for a paramilitary-style assault. There are thousands of deaths every year which gun control could realistically prevent but, on the (admittedly limited) evidence so far, I don't believe this is one of them.

I'm not talking about the gun issue until it is revealed that the shooter got all his weapons legally, at which point I intend to become insufferable.

I agree to an extent, but our culture sure makes these kinds of assaults easier than they should be. XP

"James Holmes"

never heard of a spree killing at a theater before.

A shooting at Northern Illinois University in '08 had a similar setup, as far as the gunman entering a lecture hall from a side door at the front. Nightmare situation of a place to be trapped, as this is.

xp - yeah, just heard this as well - James Holmes, born December 13, 1987

the really trivial aspects of this seem interesting 2 me

like @ what pt he thought of this & was planning, etc. i guess the release date for tdkr has been set for a long time

or just like him sitting in his car behind the theater deciding when 2 go in

fuck

"Buckets of ammunition" found inside Aurora suspect James Holmes' apartment - @CBSNews

will take all of another 10? minutes 2 find his facebook cuz of such a generic name

There is a James Holmes profile with no other public info than this profile pic:

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/27481_100001082945984_5790_n.jpg

xpost: indeed, Johnny Crunch. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4998473/

vol 11 is recognized as the best of the series fyi

this is so, so sad

Has anyone argued on TV yet the reason this happened is that cinemagoers weren't armed?

If only they'd downloaded the movie illegally instead of going to a cinema, they'd still be alive.

... and that includes toddlers (xp)

stickin' to Euro art theaters for the foreseeable future

Every time some shit like this goes down, I am surprised/relieved that shit like this doesn't go down more often.

Uhhh, from the outside looking in, it seems to go down fairly often

apparently bullets went through the walls and hit people in other theatres

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Friday, July 20, 2012 10:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Anthony Lane's hasty New Yorker blog (presumably written under duress because who really knows what to say at this point?) concludes by suggesting a ban on midnight screenings.

xxpost yeah I guess so compared with, like, every other place on earth... still, it could be a lot worse! #america

like it will be after the REAL economic crash...

#2
On July 20th, 2012 at 8:52 am, southparkconservative said:
Does Colorado allow concealed carry in Movie Theaters? I know many states do not, I wonder if the location was picked for this reason. I’ve always been nervous about this type of thing, a movie theater is a shooting gallery, there aren’t enough exits to get away, and you’d have to walk towards the fire to exit normally… and you usually can’t bring a concealed weapon with you.

ban midnight screenings except where whole audience is armed

… and you usually can’t bring a concealed weapon with you.

And this makes you nervous?

also, ban computer games, loners, black clothes

any movie ticket purchased after 10pm comes w/ a handgun

idk about effect on movie attendance. have people stopped going to shopping malls b/c of multiple horrific shootings at similar places?

#2
On July 20th, 2012 at 8:52 am, southparkconservative said:
Does Colorado allow concealed carry in Movie Theaters? I know many states do not, I wonder if the location was picked for this reason.

Reminds me of a local gun-enthusiast blogger here in Knoxville whose reaction to a church shooting was, "This is why I always carry my gun in church."

Pretty sure Colorado would be one of the more loosely regulated concealed carry states.

because nothing screams "safety" like two people shooting at each other in a darkened theater

xpost

Well, even in conceal-carry states (which is most of them now), private businesses can still ban guns. Which I believe most movie theaters do. But anyway of course, if there had been some guy with a gun halfway back in the theater who decided to play hero, he most likely would've ended up shooting other innocent people.

idk about effect on movie attendance. have people stopped going to shopping malls b/c of multiple horrific shootings at similar places?

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, July 20, 2012 1:03 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I regularly attend movies with my family. Every time I'm sitting in a theatre, it goes through my head how difficult it could actually be to get them all to an emergency exit were something devastating like this to occur.

concealed carry Jeremiahs are the fucking worst

this is the first time that i can remember that the police didn't kill the shooter or shooter actually didn't kill themselves at the end.

no, there was that dude in Arizona just recently

... y' see there's this guy called Anders Breivik (xp)

concealed carry Jeremiahs are the fucking worst

otmfm, already got two of them on my FB feed

I'm really sickened and disturbed by this, even more than some other recent mass shootings. Just, gah, I can't imagine how horrifying it must have been to be trapped like that.

it's not like there are degrees of awful in something as terrible as this but when these fuckin guys pick a place where people have gone to have fun and get away from the stresses of their lives it bothers me more, makes it just that little bit worse for me.

yeah, totally.

And, sure, it hits pretty close to home.

I’ve always been nervous about this type of thing, a movie theater is a shooting gallery

geez, the person who goes around thinking about this kinda stuff...
there's a personality type that scans every room ever for attack susceptibility isn't there?

From what I've read, there were some pretty young kids there, which as the parent of some superhero-loving kids is fucking with me really badly.

i don't know about "attack susceptibility", but i have a friend that immediately scans the room for escape routes, no matter where we are. she's been doing it since she was a little kid.

(xpost)

I saw a 3-month old was injured, which breaks my heart. But part of me is like, why are you taking a 3-month old to a movie theater?

Oh man, I took my little girl to a lot of movies when she was that tiny. Mostly they sleep. It's a pretty good deal.

I guess I'm a little more wary about it since we sat behind a couple whose little one screamed through the entire movie and both parents refused to take her out into the lobby.

But thats for another thread, another time. Still sick to my stomach over this.

Has there been any info released on the shooter besides the name? I'm seeing a lot of horrific racists statements about him, but I didn't think we knew that much about him yet?

Oh, well fuck that couple. No, I mean, if my kid started making too much noise, I'd take her out for sure. Last year when we went to see Puss In Boots, she just kept screaming "KITTY! KITTY! KITTY!" so we had to bail to the lobby.

There is a black man with the same name from the same town on Facebook, but he's five or six years older. Racist fuckheads probably thinking of him.

ergh, not a good feeling to come home from seeing the midnight showing here on the west coast and then see this news. theater was full of kids and parents, i was with my sister + cousin, my other little sister was seeing it with friends at a different theater. it was a fun atmosphere, everyone was having a good time, and you just have to...trust that no one crazy is going to show up and do crazy things? ugh.

I saw a 3-month old was injured, which breaks my heart. But part of me is like, why are you taking a 3-month old to a movie theater?

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, July 20, 2012 9:23 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Im sure they werent thinking some lunatic was going to spray the theater with bullets.

This whole thing makes me literally need to puke.

Im sure they werent thinking some lunatic was going to spray the theater with bullets.

Of course not, no one was.

really any teachable moment involving movies, public spaces, etc should fall behind the one about psychos getting their hands on automatic weaponry

^^ agreed, that's why i tried to immediately steer away from that tangent

Please explain to an innocent Britisher wtf "concealed carrier" means; it sounds sinister as fuck.

it means a person carrying a handgun that is not immediately visible

The right-wing gun-nut argument is that if everyone was a "concealed carrier" we would never have mass shootings like this. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

and just to add: many here in the US feel that "concealed carry" actually adds to public safety under the theory that someone like this carrying assault weapons and looking for a large bodycount would be taken out by one or more of the concealed carriers.

Which is obviously some Deadwood/Dodge City logic.

xpost

Like wild west, but with gun hidden.

Xpost

because obviously, the solution is to just get more guns out there

it has a sick logic to it, if you can only bring yourself not to think about the concept more than two minutes

Wish I could find the spoof story I read after Virginia, with everyone in the school carrying & getting into a panic shootout with each other.

The right-wing gun-nut argument is that if everyone was a "concealed carrier" we would never have mass shootings like this.

Which I remember as a joke in childhood... Archie Bunker saying to prevent hijackings "ya arm ya passengers."

If everyone had guns, then the dividing line would be between people with guns and bullies, psychos and vigilantes actually wiling to use them. And then the gun lobby would complain the problem isn't lack of guns but unwillingness to use them.

concealed carry Jeremiahs are the fucking worst

otmfm, already got two of them on my FB feed

Yeah, me too, including someone who posted this big fat fucking smelly turd:

I saw this yesterday. As a proud gun owner I feel it is rather poignant this morning. Don't start a hateful or political thread under here. Respect me and my position, just as I do you and yours.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/3/3/2/4/7/184817-174233/5621953834804916943541524954247928631036673347682178n.jpg?a=72

It's like, seriously, if you own a gun, and your first reaction to an incident like this is "Y'ALL ARE BRUTALIZIN' ME!" then fuck you and everything ever to do with you and I curse your children even unto the 10th generation.

Good grief.

They seriously just had one of those rent-a-talking-head-specialists on CNN going "we don't know anything about possible motives, but yada yada yada loner, computer games"

Oh, well fuck that couple. No, I mean, if my kid started making too much noise, I'd take her out for sure.

!!!!!

"Spoons made me fat" works if your argument is that bullets should be banned instead of guns

Yeah, gun nut people think that "spoons" argument is SO clever.

Ban guns *and* spoons, it's all cool with me.

cf Jill Lepore's essay in the New Yorker recently:

Gun-rights advocates say that the answer is more guns: things would have gone better, they suggest, if the faculty at Columbine, Virginia Tech, and Chardon High School had been armed. That is the logic of the concealed-carry movement; that is how armed citizens have come to be patrolling the streets. That is now how civilians live. When carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense is understood not as a failure of civil society, to be mourned, but as an act of citizenship to be vaunted, there is little civilian life left.

Of course, then there are the open-carry people, who are even freakier.

I fully support open carry, if you have a gun on you I would like to know

"there is little civilian life left" is the line from that lepore essay that has stuck with me. this is so sad.

I don't even know what to think about this particular shooting because guns and shooting seems like an unfortunate frequent topic of conversation in my world, at least at work. Basically it makes me think about the general concept of PROTECTION and SECURITY in the micro and the macro sense.

honestly as fucked up as all this "concealed carry" talk is, i'm so frustrated at the availability of automatic weapons that I might concede giving every wanna-be Dirty Harry a smith and wesson if it meant nobody could spray a room in a second.

They seriously just had one of those rent-a-talking-head-specialists on CNN going "we don't know anything about possible motives, but yada yada yada loner, computer games"

― StanM, Friday, 20 July 2012 13:59 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the usual LDR joke..

it's just as easy to get fat eating with your hands or fork or chopsticks though? whereas mass murder probably harder without a gun

(*maybe not chopsticks)

(why am i analysing this?)

has a mass shooter even been shot by another member of the public?

*ever

at penn state in the 90s a woman who opened fire on a campus lawn was taken down by a hippie dude who knew kung fu

I was kinda freaked in Minneapolis to see all the "This establishment does not permit weapons carrying" signs.

I think a lot of this concealed carrier stopping a mass shooting is a lot of dudes just sitting at their computer, daydreaming, "oh man if I was there I would be the hero and stop that guy".

That freaks me out.

And, at least on a couple local Chicago blogs, the overlap between "concealed carriers" and "outright racists" is terrifyingly huge. If you're a masochist, google the 'S3c0nd C1ty C0p' blog.

concealed hippies ftw

Movie theatres suck. People suck.

^ refuses to blame guns

I think a lot of this concealed carrier stopping a mass shooting is a lot of dudes just sitting at their computer, daydreaming, "oh man if I was there I would be the hero and stop that guy".

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, July 20, 2012 9:08 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

guaranteed to be all over conservative web sites and radio today. so pathetic. like 10 yr olds pretending to play army.

I think a lot of this concealed carrier stopping a mass shooting is a lot of dudes just sitting at their computer, daydreaming, "oh man if I was there I would be the hero and stop that guy".

well yeah, very few people fantasize, "oh man if I was there I would accidentally shoot a teenage girl in the back of the head while trying to aim half-blinded by smoke and darkness"

has a mass shooter even been shot by another member of the public?

― jabba hands, Friday, July 20, 2012 10:05 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I thought that a principal at one of the US school shootings stopped or apprehended the shooter using his own gun, but I can't find it. Even if so, it would be such an outlier that the real answer is "no."

well, yeah, but my point was more that some guy sitting as his keyboard daydreaming should not be what drives gun policy in this, or any, country

(xpost)

When Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot, one concealed carry dude drew his gun and accomplished nothing except almost shooting another guy who was attempting to help other victims.

this is terrible + tragic.

there's kind of an emptiness saying that and not having anywhere to go. it's not terrorism, so there's no violent ideology that you can blame. except the ideology that seems to undergird all of american society - that makes too many americans believe that gun ownership is not just a right but a virtue, and that is pretty much politically toxic for discussion. so what can you say that could possibly be productive?

mental health industry in united states is kinda fucked, too.

xp No wait, it's even worse: He almost shot the guy who had just disarmed Jared Laughner.

But before we embrace Zamudio’s brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let’s hear the whole story. “I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready,” he explained on Fox and Friends. “I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this.” Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. “And that’s who I at first thought was the shooter,” Zamudio recalled. “I told him to ‘Drop it, drop it!’ ”

But the man with the gun wasn’t the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. “Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess,” the interviewer pointed out.

evidence of concealed carry in action

When the robber turned the shotgun toward him, Al-Mujaahid said, he fired six or seven shots from about 20 feet away. He said he hit the suspect in the leg and forehead. The robber then dropped the shotgun and bag of money, and fled the store. Police later arrested Dierre Cotton, 20, and Edyon Hibbler, 19, who were charged late Friday with the robbery and two other holdups on the city's northwest side.

According to the complaint, Cotton's gun wasn't loaded; he thought it would just scare cashiers into giving up money more quickly.
Over in 30 seconds

Al-Mujaahid estimated 30 seconds elapsed from the time he first noticed the robber to the time he shot him. He said he knew from his recent training that you need to breathe, keep a clear head, and "commit to a decision."

Al-Mujaahid said he works in Internet marketing. His Twitter profile describes him as, "Former Thug turned Successful Entrepreneur, Speaker, Internet Marketer, & Life Coach! Teaching How to Take Care & Take Charge!" A Muslim since about 1995, he is also active with Muslin Action Network, which helped set up Friday's news conference at Dera Grill, a Pakistani restaurant.

btw if you want to get even more depressed, one of the victims of last night's shooting was apparently a young woman who was present at, but not involved in, the mall shooting spree in Toronto last month.

omg

can you imagine how crazy/insane the gun nuts would go if you made the face of successful concealed carry this dude:

http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/citizen.jpg?w=400

ha

If we had open carry laws everywhere this might never have happened, because no one would have sat in the dark at a midnight screening of "Batman" with a random dude they knew had a big gun hanging off his waist. Indeed, if there was a sizable number of civilians walking around openly strapped, an even larger number of people (like me) would likely never leave the house. Problem: solved.

ha, I wonder if allowing open carry would have the side-effect of renewed interest/funding in mental health research

I think open carry is allowed most places, isn't it? It's the legal default. It was always concealed-carry that was restricted, until recently.

I think open carry is allowed most places, isn't it?

This can't be, can it?

having driven by that horrific mass shooting in seal beach ca about five minutes after it occurred, where eight people died including some random dude in a parked car nearby, shit like this freaks me out more. especially since having a kid. how do you protect your family from this? you can't, you just hope it never happens to you or them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/OC-OpenCarry.svg/300px-OC-OpenCarry.svg.png

Yellow and green mostly open carry OK.

An impossibly rough read, in light of what happened:

http://deadspin.com/5927673/aspiring-sportscaster-killed-in-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States

There's a map about halfway down that breaks it down in the U.S.

That poor girl, jesus.

OL otm this is so terrifying to me. I can't let myself think about this kind of thing too much or else I'd never leave the house. So sad.

Gun owners I've talked to mostly disparage open carry, because they think it makes them look like psychos. (And also, in the public showdown scenarios that all of these guys envision apparently all the time, it would make them the first obvious targets for a shooter.)

Holy shit that link Ned posted is so fucking sad.

b/t this and the global warming article thread, i need to stay off the internet today. this is horrible.

Aw man, that is pretty unfortunate to escape one mass shooting only be to killed in another...

Gun owners I've talked to mostly disparage open carry, because they think it makes them look like psychos.

As opposed to those who walk around with hidden guns just in case something might go down.

Texas is goofy in that open carry is forbidden but basically anyone who wants can get a concealed carry permit. All you need is an address, an ID and no felonies.

key words are "look like"

Final destination

If we had open carry laws everywhere this might never have happened, because no one would have sat in the dark at a midnight screening of "Batman" with a random dude they knew had a big gun hanging off his waist.

that guy prob would've just broken the open carry law the same way he broke all those laws about murder tbf

Also, did you know that Republicans in Congress keep trying to pass a bill that would requires all states to recognize and honor out-of-state concealed carry licenses, even if the bearer would not qualify for such a license in the state he/she is visiting? FEDERALISM, Y'ALL.

Gawker already noted this but when it comes to Nikki Finke having her cake and eating it too, consider this other example.

(psst Ned, both links are the same)

That was gonna get brought up anyway. It's just poor taste to do it right now.

xpost -- bother. I meant this link:

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/warner-bros-paired-dark-knight-rises-with-trailer-of-gangster-shooting-up-movie-theater-which-studio-didnt-take-down-until-i-complained/

Here’s the horrible clip which no one at Warner Bros should have allowed to be made, much less released, in the first place

Fuck this woman right in the ear.

Wow that is, uh, something. I get wanting it pulled, but that it never should have been made? Come on.

warner bros cmon if you have to make that film, just keep it 2 urselves plz

"Pull this thing that shouldn't exist! Oh BTW, get your rocks off."

this is the worst

From The Atlantic:

[Suspect James Holmes] reportedly told police he had explosives in his apartment and police SWAT teams have surrounded and evacuated his apartment complex and are searching his car.

8:45 a.m.: Aurora police say they believe that the suspect's apartment is booby trapped. "We could be here for hours, we could be here for days ... It looks pretty sophisticated." They have evacuated five nearby buildings as a precaution.

jesus

Ugh this is so upsetting

ABC suggests he may be a Tea Partier, Breitbart thinks he's a registered Democrat. Neither of them are sure they have the right James Holmes. None of it matters anyway. FFS.

None of it matters anyway. FFS.

otmfm

They haven't released the names of any of the victims yet, correct?

Just that sportswriter girl that was in the Toronto shooting, afaik.

"at" not "in" obvs

I feel less safe when I see cops with guns, since I assume they are liable to open fire at random at any time.

Don't even want to think about the fucks walking around w/ concealed weapons.

They're all a bigger risk to me as far as I'm concerned than the occasional fucked-up mass shooter.

The thing that always freaks me out about open carry guys is what happens if something goes down and they don't shoot, but (rationally, imo) find cover and cower? How do they live that down?

The blog entry that sportscaster lady wrote is going to haunt me...

My friend Kevin posted this on facebook, which I think is otm: "Wishing that good mental health care, and support for those in crisis, was as easy to find as a gun."

@ DenverChannel : #CUDenver confirms #theatershooter, James Holmes, getting PHD in neuroscience-- started in fall of 2011; withdrew last month.

I'm not sure that "better mental health care would've stopped this" is any truer than "concealed carry would've stopped this"

I think's Kevin's point is not about prevention but about coping with the trauma.

Serious q: Is this stuff happening more in Colorado, or just the media coverage disproportionate due to the shock of the events (Columbine, Giffords, now this)

x-post I read it was being about prevention too.

and think it's OTM

It is unclear whether that sentiment is about stopping this event from happening or caring for the people involved with it afterward

xp: well damn all you fast typers

I think's Kevin's point is not about prevention but about coping with the trauma.

― sive gallus et mulier (Michael White), Friday, July 20, 2012 11:34 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think i need mental care to cope with the trauma when this shit happens. It's very depressing.

#CUDenver confirms #theatershooter, James Holmes, getting PHD in neuroscience

BAN SCIENCE

nhex, gabby giffords was in AZ.

And im not anywhere close to connected to this. I feel awful for the victims and their families.

One of my co-workers just came into my office to tell me that a friend of his, whom I've met and have played bar trivia with a couple of times, called to tell him that two of the victims were former co-workers of his. One is OK, the other is in the hospital in critical condition. Christ al-fucking-mighty.

damn, Kevin really dropped the ball on this

It was unclear in the way that it's worded but I think it was fairly obv about prevention. Fever - go ask Kevin. We need to know. ;)

I def think Kevin's OTM, btw. Even in a society where there were no guns at all, there would still be tragedies and I would still wish mental health services were more readily available than they are in the US at present.

feel like there's nothing to be said about this really apart from the usual "gun lobby in this country is insane and guns should be outlawed" but deaf ears/hopeless etc

guess y'all are reading it as: "Wishing that good mental health care, and support for those in crisis, is as easy for the victims to find as it was for the shooter to find a gun."

I wish this guy I don't know would be more grammatically specific in his FB updates when writing heartfelt responses to a tragedy

anyway, I think a lot about how to deal with the root causes of violence, there aren't easy answers, especially in a free society

guns suck but people think they're pretty awesome. idgi tbh. i mean i get it but...whatever.

I'm going to get super controversial and say that I think good mental health care should be available for victims AND for people who may (or may not!) do violent things as a result of unaddressed mental illness.

i'm in the denver area and this is so horrible, hitting me really hard. what the hell. i'm reading the recent van gogh bio and i was just talking to my wife about how the whole thing is this portrait of a guy filled with self-loathing, paranoia, delusions, genuine mental illness and yet he was able to make something beautiful out of all of that. how can a lot of the same feelings result in such horror? how? sorry, not very well thought out, but ...

I'm going to get super controversial and say that I think good mental health care should be available for victims AND for people who may (or may not!) do violent things as a result of unaddressed mental illness.

― carl agatha, Friday, July 20, 2012 10:44 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not controversial imo

as much as i am opposed to people having handguns, much less automatic weapons etc., there isn't much evidence that "concealed carry" laws make a difference one way or another in terms of violent crime. that said, i'd rather live the society where people don't feel any need to pack heat when they go out for some smokes.

Giffords was in AZ but this was in the same town (balls pointed this out on my Facebook post):

http://kdvr.com/2012/04/24/police-identify-man-who-shot-killed-pastors-mother-at-church/

(gbx: I know it's not controversial. I'm being sarcastic because there seemed to be some debate over which would be more appropriate.)

You know how decades end not on Jan. 1 of the first year but when events mark a transition--e.g., Clinton election, Nirvana et al as the beginning of the 1990s, not whatever happened on Jan. 1, 1990?

Somehow, this feels like the end of the 2000s. The Dark Knight (and maybe the other two--I haven't seen them) was all about releasing tension from the collective waiting-for-the-other-shoe-to-drop post-9/11 anxiety. Somehow the shift back from the simulacrum to real tragedy marks the end of the effectiveness of this particular post-9/11/massacre/helplessness as entertainment. Not saying we won't have more big-terrorism thrillers or nihilistic villains, but in the way that the hitman movies of the 90s now feel dated instead of feeding into the present current of our dreamlife, something about what's happened hear may end the particular current this trilogy fed into.

Kevin's point was that pre-incident care should be good quality and easy to obtain.

carl agatha otm

eazy, how do you feel about this perhaps being the end of irony

as I recall irony was found alive and well about two weeks after 9/11

i totally understand the desire to continue thinking about batman as we were all just thinking about batman but this isn't about batman so please let's not make this about batman

feel like there's nothing to be said about this really apart from the usual "gun lobby in this country is insane and guns should be outlawed" but deaf ears/hopeless etc

― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, July 20, 2012 11:39 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think there's a lot more than can be said besides same political tropes that get trotted out whenever things like this happen. pretty heartless post.

atp we know next to nothing about the shooter, right? apart from bailing on a phd program.

please let's not make this about batman

Will do.

Bill, feel free to argue that this country's love affair w/guns is not likely to end soon but pls be intellectually honest enough to allow that the comparative number of guns in the US make it far more likely that hotheads and psychos can kill substantially more ppl than they would in most other developped countries.

charles whitman agreed w/ kevin in his final journal entry:

I imagine it appears that I brutally killed both of my loved ones. I was only trying to do a quick thorough job...If my life insurance policy is valid please pay off my debts...donate the rest anonymously to a mental health foundation. Maybe research can prevent further tragedies of this type.

however, whitman did have access to mental health care.

The University of Texas refuses to release the medical records and history of Whitman at the University of Texas citing legal and ethical issues.[26] The only record released was that of Dr. Heatly once it had become known to the press that Whitman had seen a psychiatrist at their facility.

Whitman's final note reflects: "I talked with a Doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt come [sic, probably meant "some"] overwhelming violent impulses. After one visit, I never saw the Doctor again, and since then have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail."[19]

Dr. Heatly's notes on the visit confirmed the visit with Whitman, reflecting his claim of hostilities: "This massive, muscular youth seemed to be oozing with hostility...that something seemed to be happening to him and that he didn't seem to be himself." Dr. Heatley also referenced an ominous statement that Whitman did not refer to in his letter, "He readily admits having overwhelming periods of hostility with a very minimum of provocation. Repeated inquiries attempting to analyze his exact experiences were not too successful with the exception of his vivid reference to 'thinking about going up on the tower with a deer rifle and start shooting people'."[27] Whitman never visited Dr. Heatly again.

the issue of *quality* of care can be raised here, but how do you handle people who *seem* like powder kegs but haven't done anything wrong? institutionalize them immediately? monitor them? you can't force aberrant individuals to seek care. the VA tech shooter had court-ordered psychiatric sessions, after all.

just to be clear, I'm not saying mental health care is a waste of time, care and research are important. these are just the questions I ask myself after looking at the case histories of some of these types of shooters.

won't someone think of the gun's feelings in all this!

A photo of the shooter

I'm going to get super controversial and say that I think good mental health care should be available for victims AND for people who may (or may not!) do violent things as a result of unaddressed mental illness.

― carl agatha, Friday, July 20, 2012 10:44 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not controversial imo

― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, July 20, 2012 11:46 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, obviously. I didn't mean to imply that one was more important than the other at all.

the reason i'm more interested in talking about gun control than health care in situations like this is because it's a lot harder to prevent someone from being/going crazy than it is to reduce how much harm a crazy person is able to do to others

Charles Whitman was a slightly different case than most--he had a brain tumor, not a mental illness.

xp It's controversial because mental health treatment tends to be thought of as a get-out-of-jail-free card by people who should know better.

I wonder if he had a specific reason for targeting a Batman screening, or if it was just a matter of convenience, a place with lots of people and virtually no security?

Individuals engaging in slaughter like this are a fixture of America; thank God the nation-state has no such psychosis on its record.

shut the fuck up

I wonder if he had a specific reason for targeting a Batman screening, or if it was just a matter of convenience, a place with lots of people and virtually no security?

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, July 20, 2012 6:15 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

New Yorker's Anthony Lane goes into this at length

might as well. xxp

cuz there's no irony to be seen

shut the fuck up

This what the NRA tweeted at 9:20 a.m. ET Friday morning:

http://7.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Screen-Shot-2012-07-20-at-12.05.34-PM.png

Tweet was removed soon after...

shut the fuck up

xp

tbh, i knew this thread was eventually going to get to its 'simultaneous clicking of flag post' moment, but i didn't think it would be morbs

Gah, I'm already starting to see pushback from mental healthcare advocates along the lines of "quit blaming every tragedy on mental illness!"

So if the guns weren't the cause and mental illness wasn't the cause and Batman wasn't the cause and political affiliations weren't the cause, I guess this didn't really happen then. Those people aren't dead and injured.

SPOCK: I've noticed that about your people, Doctor. You find it easier to understand the death of one than the death of a million. You speak about the objective hardness of the Vulcan heart, yet how little room there seems to be in yours.

i think it's understandable that mental healthcare advocates want to protect the 99.whatever percent of people with mental illness who don't murder people at random and suffer enough negative popular prejudice already

Charles Whitman was a slightly different case than most--he had a brain tumor, not a mental illness.

― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Friday, July 20, 2012 12:11 PM (4 minutes ago)

or, mental illness presumably caused by a brain tumor. he followed the pattern of behavior many others with and without brain tumors have. my point is, what do you do when these angry, hostile, withdrawn folks present themselves? is there a prescribed course of treatment for their particular brand of psychopathy?

surprised morbs switched things up with a star trek quote instead of a dennis perrin tweet

why does anyone think that they have something interesting or useful or important or helpful to say about this situation?

Well some of them are Morbius

it's almost as if there are a lot of media outlets that are drawn to mass shootings and need to produce a steady stream of content

n/a, should we lock the thread and go about our business?

bcz we're on the interwebs

Did anybody see that purported photo of the shooter? I know you can't judge a book by the cover but he looks so innocuous.

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/mramsey/files/2012/07/072012Batman.jpg

where's the little guy with the glasses?

no statue of liberty crying, no credibility

This is so horrible and sad. At times like this, the idea of living in America seems like some dystopian wasteland where you can be shot at school, going shopping or watching a fucking movie and people still think that guns in any shape or form should be allowed, or have conversations about whether you should just cover them up or something. WTF is wrong with these gun-nuts? They kill innocent people. They kill children. Sort your fucking shit out.

I've come to terms with the fact that guns are a deeply embedded part of american culture, and the people who talk about banning guns after a spree killing sound as crazy to the gun nuts as the people who talk about banning violent movies after a spree killing sound to me

Except banning guns would actually accomplish something.

i think people like to reach out when things like this happen. it can quickly turn into a grotesquery. some people deal w/ it by trying to find a cause. (i think the most material cause here, the gun, is the one that should be first on the table.) tyler's post totally made me choke up. and dr. morbius is right about u.s. society! doesn't deserve to be told to shut the fuck up imo.

xp i swear, all political cartoons these days are basically performance art.

One of the things that bothers me about these shootings (after the body count, of course) is the sense of alienation I get from them. I can't understand why someone would do this, and I know that I never will. Like we're all so separated from each other that connection is impossible. I mean, I've been in psych hospitals many times, and have never felt this about my fellow patients. But something like this hits at my...universalism, I guess; my sense of brother/sisterhood.

it feels strange to facepalm a facepalm (xpost)

This is so horrible and sad. At times like this, the idea of living in America seems like some dystopian wasteland where you can be shot at school, going shopping or watching a fucking movie and people still think that guns in any shape or form should be allowed, or have conversations about whether you should just cover them up or something. WTF is wrong with these gun-nuts? They kill innocent people. They kill children. Sort your fucking shit out.

― Yeah and I ~obstruction~ you/ya fucking blind cunt (pause) fucking k (a hoy hoy), Friday, 20 July 2012 16:40 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know ffs i just moved to america from norway thinking it's a safe haven, and now look. fuck maybe i'll move to dunblane next

I've come to terms with the fact that guns are a deeply embedded part of american culture, and the people who talk about banning guns after a spree killing sound as crazy to the gun nuts as the people who talk about banning violent movies after a spree killing sound to me

― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 July 2012 17:45 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah this is totally fucking stupid. A guy with guns kills people, people def. crazy for thinking that guns may have something to do with it and need to be taken out of the equation.

But that won't happen. Next suggestion.

it's not stupid. it's arguable, certainly.

ken i know you are just doing your thing but really, there was a woman here who had to go through two different random shooting sprees within a year because it is so widespread. 1 fucking crazy loon in norway once a decade or something doesn't really compare.

to question what messages surround us daily about the value of life seems a legitimate avenue of thought when a massacre erupts. especially in the country that is the All-Time Ordnance Champion of human history.

it's like saying we should ban cars because of hit and run drivers.

i mean, i actually think we should ban cars, so probably that's not the best example.

ok i'm gonna take myself out of this because i know fuck all about guns and i am just posting from a point of generalised sadness that this shit happens

Two shootings in two countries, right? xps

it's like saying we should ban cars because of hit and run drivers.

― thomp, Friday, 20 July 2012 17:52 (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

AAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH what the fuck kind of argument is this to a guy who intentionally goes into a pitch black building with smoke grenades and rifles?

no, wait, leaving...

The numbers of people killed by guns and cars each year in America are not terribly different.

it's like saying we should ban cars because of hit and run drivers.

― thomp, Friday, July 20, 2012 11:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is not like this at all

you can do things with cars besides kill people iirc but i haven't driven in a while

we delayed it longer than usual, but we've finally hit the completely pointless arugment part of the thread

you can do things with guns besides kill people, you can maim them or frighten them for a start

Honestly wish I could say I was surprised it was a grad student.

automatics are useful if you're confronted with a herd of angry deer too

an aside:

basically, ive decided i come onto this threads in times like these, because tragedies like this feel SENSELESS and MEANINGLESS, and as much as any conversation about them is equally senseless and meaningless, i really do appreciate hearing you/us hash it all out together. 100% sincerely, thanks ILX.

i wouldn't be sad if guns were banned tbh. seems a pretty pointless thing to have.

the US's gun culture is disgusting. a culture that revolves around an instrument of death, and not only death, but mass death. there's no coming to terms with that for me. maybe the NRA is the ancestor of that nuclear bomb cult in beneath the planet of the apes.

nah, Charlton wasn't in that one

that's true. maybe he bowed out when he learned his character would have to destroy the cult.

The thing that really boggles my mind is that there is anyone in the U.S. anywhere that will argue for the need for automatic weapons.

UK drink culture is probably also very bad

http://i.imgur.com/w8j8i.png

but drink isn't an instrument of mass oh hang on

i would be very sad if drinks were banned tbh

noticed we were talking about cars, just wanted to say that they are as dangerous to public health as guns are, ban cars and guns forever

psychopaths express themselves in the terms of their culture - america's culture and history is inextricably bound up in gun ownership. the majority of spree killers have military backgrounds. not sure how you suddenly end all that with the statement "ban all the guns". people have to feel like they don't need guns in their lives, and I'm not sure how you accomplish that.

instrument of mass procreation, worse than mass murder

i need a drink

cars, too - certainly not of any symbolic importance for americans

i dunno jon, you don't want to take away the freedom to quickly blow apart a cardboard cutout of saddam hussein bin laden kim jong il mahmoud ahmadinejad

he looks like the sort of person who would have had a really bad blog that ilx would have condemned

ken i know you are just doing your thing but really, there was a woman here who had to go through two different random shooting sprees within a year because it is so widespread. 1 fucking crazy loon in norway once a decade or something doesn't really compare.

― Yeah and I ~obstruction~ you/ya fucking blind cunt (pause) fucking k (a hoy hoy), Friday, July 20, 2012 12:51 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The first spree this poor woman experienced was in Canada.

Really surprised that they caught him unharmed, that's rare for spree shootings right?

tbh since you'll never get rid of guns, there should probably be a responsibility on folks that kids shouldn't be indoctrinated and swamped with gun culture and guns at every turn and made to think they're just a viable everyday item that people can casually own and use without concern..

the dude in norway and the guy in seal beach were caught pretty soon after, completely unscathed.

it is rare tho. incidentally, it's how the first US spree killing ended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh

idk abt ex military....seems like spree killers are becoming more and more creatures of the internet...like from klebold > seung hui > loughner > breivik who was ideologically almost completely the product of the european nationalist blog fringe

surely everybody are creatures of hte internet these days

ban blogs

http://i.imgur.com/kRbmc.jpg

loughner tried to get into the army, and was rejected

xp

This sounds strange to say at first, but bear with me. I am very glad that the shooter is alive. If there's any kind of "why" when someone goes on a random shooting spree, it's inside the shooter, and it's rare that the shooter lives through the incident. This is deliberate; this kind of killing isn't about thrill-seeking, as in the case of serial killers. It's a suicidal act. We know very little about what prompts people to do something like this (as opposed to simply killing themselves). I don't know that we'll get any kind of satisfactory, complete neurological or psychological explanation from this shooter, but there may be some small part of an answer in him. It's better that he's alive.

Several xposts.

kenan otm

basically, ive decided i come onto this threads in times like these, because tragedies like this feel SENSELESS and MEANINGLESS, and as much as any conversation about them is equally senseless and meaningless, i really do appreciate hearing you/us hash it all out together. 100% sincerely, thanks ILX.

― 69, Friday, July 20, 2012 4:58 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, me, too, and also because I know that people will post relevant new developments here and then I don't have to wade through a bunch of crap news coverage (just some crap posts j/k! lylas!).

There's a lot about this shooting that's hitting me harder than I would expect - I have a connection to CO, going to the movies, especially for big summer action movies, is one of my favorite escapist past times, attendees of midnight showings of comic book movies are among my people. And then it was apparently so carefully planned and why did he do this? I really want to know his version of why he did it.

xp yup, Kenan OTM

has this been posted already:

http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/r620-7287416e80922620fccb76fdf86fa724.jpg

yeah he wasnt ex military. he had dropped out of med school recently iirc

(not that I would expect not to feel sad about a spree shooting, just that sometimes you learn about these things and get sad and then go on with your day and sometimes you can't stop thinking about it.)

ban batman-inspired porn theaters

it's not like there are degrees of awful in something as terrible as this but when these fuckin guys pick a place where people have gone to have fun and get away from the stresses of their lives it bothers me more, makes it just that little bit worse for me.

― tallarico dreams (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, July 20, 2012 8:19 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just wanted to throw this great post out there again. Just from judging from people I know, seeing this movie was such an anticipated event, counting down days, weeks, months even. It's weird looking at my fb feed and seeing most of the folks who posted both before and after about hitting a midnight screening last night now sharing about waking up to this news. Such ugly memories.

I really don't want to do anything today.

(for those who don't recognize it - that img is from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight" from 1986, a major source for the Nolan films)

i hope you're posting it for the same reasons as the batman crying eagle image and nothing greater, tbh

#BREAKING: NYPD Cmsr Kelly says CO suspect Holmes had “hair painted red, he said he was The Joker.” Armed w/shotgun, AK47, 9mm, knife.
— Tony Aiello (@TonyAielloNY) 20 Jul 12

Hmm, not sure how much I'm going to rely on the NYPD guys at this point.

From her brother:

http://www.jordanghawi.com/denver-theatre-shooting-jessica-ghawi/

NYPD Commissioner Kelly is said to be tight w/Aurora Chief Dan Oates, who rose to Dep. Chief during 21 years w/NYPD
— Tony Aiello (@TonyAielloNY) 20 Jul 12

xp

jesus, Ned's link. :(

thank you for answering my question "how the hell would the NYPD commissioner have any details about a case happening in Colorado"

^^^

i don't want to jump to any conclusions about him calling himself the Joker, because we don't need to feed the "WE NEED SOMETHING TO BLAME" media circus

I live in Denver, had a lot of texts this morning from people asking if I am/was okay. Yeah, I'm okay. Although, incidentally, I was in Aurora last night.

I'm pretty bummed about it.

jeezus

who are these assholes taking phone videos of bloody victims streaming out of the theatre

glad you're okay, hII

still waiting to hear from a college friend living in Denver, who I'm sure is okay but I'm still worrying about

a few things:

- it doesn't surprise me when things like this happen, but it continues to sadden me greatly.

- as someone who knows how to use many kinds of guns, and is in the long process of getting a permit to own a gun in CA, i really wish that people who don't know anything about guns would shut the fuck up when stuff like this happens. most people who own guns are not the sort who do things like this, and come from all walks of life, and aren't all insane racist wingnuts. okay? okay.

I think its prefectly okay for people who don't "know anything" about guns to still express outrage over automatic weapons being readily available. But, for the record, I grew up in a family of hunters and spent a lot of time around guns as a kid. My dad really wanted me to be a hunter, so I went with him on many trips, attented several safety classes, etc etc before decided I wanted nothing to do with them. Is it okay for me to talk about them?

http://i45.tinypic.com/9asgzl.jpg

Is that a fucking clone trooper there?

ignorant anti-gun proponent > ignorant with gun

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7gyv3yNod1qz96eoo1_500.jpg

okay, jon, your point is taken.

it's more that i take umbrage with the idea (that some people in this thread seem to support) of all gun owners being total loons. i don't support people carrying automatic weapons, i think they should be banned for sale to the public, but an outright ban on all guns? gtfo.

blame the nra, maybe?

first "we will never feel the same in theaters" piece I've seen.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/20/alone_in_the_dark/

"we" need to sleep on these thinkpieces

- as someone who knows how to use many kinds of guns, and is in the long process of getting a permit to own a gun in CA, i really wish that people who don't know anything about guns would shut the fuck up when stuff like this happens. most people who own guns are not the sort who do things like this, and come from all walks of life, and aren't all insane racist wingnuts. okay? okay.

― for reasons of sass (the table is the table), Friday, July 20, 2012 7:42 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, we should leave opinions on and speaking about guns and gun related incidents solely to people who own guns or know a lot about guns...

What is the point of a civilian owning a gun?

Do I really need to post this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Amendment

I am plenty familiar with guns - I've been around them, I know how to use them - they should all be outlawed.

It protects our right to form a militia if we have a corrupt government we need to rise against

yeah good luck with that

Shit, I think about this happening every time I go into a movie theater (once a year).

Also don't know why no one's ever detonated a bomb inside a Walmart on Black Friday or shot a Houston Astro inside MinuteMaid.

xp I am just stating what the fucking amendment is quit being a douche

I think I can direct you to a few blog posts that attempt to define a "corrupt government" to show you the holes in that logic.

This is the first time I heard of the phenomenon called "Concealed carry". It's an other-worldy, alien concept to me (coming from a European country that doesn't allow guns for civilians, especially not in public). I still can't wrap my head around it. The insanely long wiki on it only makes it more bizarre to me. Rules and laws to be allowed to conceal you are carrying a gun... Madness where I come from.

shot a Houston Astro inside MinuteMaid.

butwhatnow?

i know all gun owners aren't the same but if your big beef after a spree shooting is all those knuckleheads hatin' on guns maybe blame the gun lobby for making hippies less appreciative of our 2nd amendment rights

for fucks sake I am merely linking to the stupid amendment wikipedia for britishers and europeans who don't know what it is.

lol I've been informed by a common friend that my friend in Denver lives nowhere near Aurora

paranoia lessening

This is the first time I heard of the phenomenon called "Concealed carry". It's an other-worldy, alien concept to me (coming from a European country that doesn't allow guns for civilians, especially not in public). I still can't wrap my head around it. The insanely long wiki on it only makes it more bizarre to me. Rules and laws to be allowed to conceal you are carrying a gun... Madness where I come from.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, July 20, 2012 1:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

concealed carry is sort of considered its own subculture, and they're mostly looked at as nutcases by normal gun enthusiasts

we should probably lock the politics thread, seeing as no one on ilx has ever led public office. can't possibly bring anything to the discussion.

in fact, moving forward, i don't want to hear anyone in America opining on the decisions of the president except for George Bush and Bill Clinton.

too many guns out there to make a ban meaningful imo. that bird has flown.

anyone arguing that gun rights are important is a fucking idiot though.

nothing is more annoying to me after these incidents than people from other countries posting their dismay and disbelief at our shameful american rage

Shit, I think about this happening every time I go into a movie theater (once a year).

Also don't know why no one's ever detonated a bomb inside a Walmart on Black Friday or shot a Houston Astro inside MinuteMaid.

― pplains, Friday, July 20, 2012 1:57 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have thought about it but shrugged it off.

You know what I wonder often though? Why haven't cruise ships been targeted by crazies? I have never been on one so I don't know the level of security but are people/bags scanned? It seems like such an obvious target to me.

hII, my comment was really aimed at aggrieved gun-owner table

We know what the fuck the Second Amendment is! That doesn't automatically make it a good idea!

This whole concealed carry thing is so weird because I was just talking to my dad about guns and that in particular last week after noticing that there is a gun shop on nearly every corner where they now live in FL.

i'm okay with that logic, if it means iatee has to move to the suburbs before he can talk about them anymore.

(xpost - and, of course, being silly)

No, at gun laws xpost. You don't have to be proud of those.

"Some states publish statistics indicating how many residents hold permits to carry concealed weapons, and their demographics. For example, Florida has issued 2,031,106 licenses since adopting its law in 1987."

Xposts The Houston Astros play @ Minute Maid Park (formally Enron Field)

Here in the Cleveland area, concealed carry laws have led, off the top of my head, to one (1) case in which a man defended himself against two would-be assailants, killing one of them; one (1) case of a man shooting a parking attendant over a parking space at Quicken Loans Arena; and one (1) case of a driver killing a police officer after having been pulled over for loud music. All three had valid permits. So, overall, a raging success.

concealed carry is sort of considered its own subculture, and they're mostly looked at as nutcases by normal gun enthusiasts

??? Not in my experience.

You know what I wonder often though? Why haven't cruise ships been targeted by crazies? I have never been on one so I don't know the level of security but are people/bags scanned? It seems like such an obvious target to me.

you basically have to go through an analogue of airport security every time you get onto the cruise ship; all of your bags are scanned and you have to go through a metal detector, plus any liquor bottles you purchase have to be checked (this is why you pour your duty-free booze into thermoses btw)

It's been around forever it's not going anywhere, regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. (regarding the second amendment)

lol "gun enthusiasts"

obv shooting a houston astro would be the most excitement that park has seen since lance berkman left

can we please for once not get into arguments on a thread about how innocent people were slaughtered by a fellow citizen? can we just check ourselves long enough to be cool and respectful when people get senselessly gunned down? I'm one of the biggest fucking blowhards in the history of this board and I have my own opinions, maaaan, about what might have prevented this and what might help and what might not but it feels like this isn't maybe the thread to do it on. imo. yes I know I'm being "self-righteous." better self-righteous than completely tone-deaf.

2nd Amendment:

"A WELL-REGULATED MILITIA"

wait was that thing about arming ourselves against a corrupt government for real?

DJP - ha well now I know why they haven't! I didn't realize it was similar to airplane security though it certainly makes sense that it would be.

Cruise ships have been targeted, fwiw.

nothing is more annoying to me after these incidents than people from other countries posting their dismay and disbelief at our shameful american rage

― homosexual II, Friday, July 20, 2012 8:01 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If this is how you truly feel I think that says more about you than about me. I didn't say, nor intend, anything of the sort.

Fact is this is a worldwide message board. Are non-Americans not allowed to express their dismay about a disaster like this? We should stay out then? I haven't been judgmental or disapproving, I am merely bewildered by things I heard and learned today.

But I get it, will back off so you Americans can discuss it among yourselves.

DJP - ha well now I know why they haven't! I didn't realize it was similar to airplane security though it certainly makes sense that it would be.

you have to "check out" when you get off the ship at port, too; basically, when you first embark they take a picture of you and give you a badge and you have to badge in and badge out like you were entering/leaving a building with tight security

I'm not sure what security was like in 1985 when that ship aero posted was hijacked but the easiest way I can think of to hijack a ship nowadays would be to get the captain to do it

What not to do.

oh man

I can understand being annoyed by this: Sort your fucking shit out. ― (a hoy hoy), Friday, July 20, 2012 11:40 AM

A hoy hoy, despite being a nice dude and a FB friend, was the post I was mostly talking about btw

http://i.imgur.com/fHj81.png

??? Not in my experience.

― Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Friday, July 20, 2012 2:03 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

well your experience sux

No problem Mandee

xp laws come and go dude, society changes.

xp to am0n: ban Steve Miller Band

Believe it or not, there's a Jessica Ghawi connection in this story, making her look all the more sharp, certainly in comparison to the mental midget in question. And she's gone and this clown is not.

It's just shitty.
"get your shit together"
most of us aren't gun-toting, militia types who decide to freak out and shoot a bunch of people in theatres. just fyi.
sometimes it feels like, "what is wrong with you people?" judgey shit.
when "you people" mostly... are us who are sad and confused and might even know people who were shot or killed (I live about 5 miles from Aurora, was in Aurora last night, and a close friend of a friend was shot in the stomach and is in surgery right now). crazy, confused, fucked up people do not represent a nation.

well this can of worms is already well open: do people have anything specific in mind when they say an "automatic" weapon?

while we're on the topic of the 2nd, current jurisprudence is that the right to carry a gun is fully incorporated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

Yes. I mean I do realize that it happens here more often than elsewhere and that our gun laws are problematic at best but Ken's follow-up post echoed my initial though after reading AHH's and I was annoyed by the tone of it as well which is just to say that Mandee isn't alone in finding that tendency at least a little annoying and arrogant.

oh that was a lot of cross posts the the sort your shit out bit

can we please for once not get into arguments on a thread about how innocent people were slaughtered by a fellow citizen? can we just check ourselves long enough to be cool and respectful when people get senselessly gunned down? I'm one of the biggest fucking blowhards in the history of this board and I have my own opinions, maaaan, about what might have prevented this and what might help and what might not but it feels like this isn't maybe the thread to do it on. imo. yes I know I'm being "self-righteous." better self-righteous than completely tone-deaf.

― tallarico dreams (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, July 20, 2012 2:06 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

i feel u. i was actually startled when i clicked the thread and found that it was a long gun control discussion

these events always spark these discussions for a reason

Why shouldn't it be discussed here?

Here's the tweet Ned linked to a little while ago, because it's inevitably going to get yanked:

http://i.imgur.com/56HaA.gif

this is the 'mass murder at the dark knight rise premiere' thread, not a thread about gun violence

crazy, confused, fucked up people do not represent a nation.

― homosexual II, Friday, July 20, 2012 1:17 PM (4 minutes ago)

I don't believe this anymore, sorry.

This is only marginally related but I'm posting it just in case brownie or kate78 happen to click on this thread and read this post: WMJI's John Lanigan's son part of Aurora, Colorado arrest team.

(John Lanigan is a Cleveland radio/TV personality who has been on the air, like, my entire life. Everyone in Cleveland knows his name.)

seem kind of linked or at least one follows from the other

xposts

xp aero's self-righteousness OTM. I understand the "something must be done" urge but the way this spiralled straight into a gun control debate pisses me off.

i guess we could talk about how this might affect TDKR's opening weekend grosses

Something something war room something something.

So does every tragedy need its own ILX tribute thread for good-vibes and mourning only? Any important issues obviously related to that event must be banished to another thread?

how can we divide the issue of gun control/culture from this shooting? that's being in denial and does a disservice to the people who suffer as a consequence of what's going on in our country. this is real shit happening, and people are dead ... how can we ignore the reasons why and pretend like they don't exist?

God I thought for a second they meant the rather more famous NATO

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/nato-theater-owners-statement-safety-shooting/

i wonder if chris nolan will do a stanley kubrick, or is the world a different place now ?

― mark e, Friday, July 20, 2012 5:54 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Would almost love to see him try it just to watch Warner Bros. laugh at him/sue him/try to have him committed/etc.

it would be tactful.

xps

wow my post sounds more shrill than i thought. need to take smoke break.

we clearly need more secure emergency exits in movie theaters

Would almost love to see him try it just to watch Warner Bros. laugh at him/sue him/try to have him committed/etc.

Let's not be hasty: Warner Bros. Considers Cancellation of ‘Dark Knight Rises’ Screenings

Warner Bros., the studio releasing “The Dark Knight Rises,” is considering whether to cancel screenings across the country after a massacre took place at a midnight screening in Colorado that left 12 moviegoers dead in the early hours of Friday.

Executives at the Hollywood studio were gathered at the Burbank offices from the middle of the night, struggling with whether to alter roll-out plans for the second-biggest release in movie history.

An executive told TheWrap that Warner was watching the situation and still considering whether to take further measures beyond cancelling the Paris premiere, including cancelling screenings at theater chains.

The executive said they would be making decisions on Friday and throughout the weekend as they conferred within the studio, monitored news reports and spoke to theater chains.

Sorry homosexual II, I didn't connect to your earlier post, I'm an idiot. My thoughts are with you, and your friend, and their friend.

So does every tragedy need its own ILX tribute thread for good-vibes and mourning only? Any important issues obviously related to that event must be banished to another thread?

― boxall, Friday, July 20, 2012 2:26 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

there's no shortage of gun control threads already on ILX that u can have that discussion in. but i mean, whatever

yeah it's crazy that the "don't scream fire in a crowded theater" thing has been around for centuries & yet there's still only, like, three ways to get out of most theaters

Many xps, but I think talking about how and why we live with so many guns and so many shootings is sort of a natural and probably necessary response every time these things happen. It doesn't solve anything and isn't really even intended to, it's just a way of acknowledging this complicated, unpleasant thing about American life and culture. I'd be more bothered if mass shootings didn't prompt knee-jerk GUNS WTF talk.

threads go where they go. discussion is entirely germane. let it be.

echoing PP upthread i'm stunned at this but also kind of surprised something like this hasn't happened before.

And also, as far as concealed-carry goes, it's a completely mainstream thing among yr modern American gun owners. It used to be more marginalized, but it's become kind of a central thrust and focus of the NRA. That Jill Lepore article goes through the history of its evolution.

The article's online, btw: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/04/23/120423fa_fact_lepore

It protects our right to form a militia if we have a corrupt government we need to rise against

― homosexual II, Friday, July 20, 2012 10:56 AM (19 minutes ago)

this gets said a lot, to the point where it's a standard article of the american faith, but it isn't an accurate summary of the second amendment as written. the second amendment says that since a secure state requires a militia, the government can't mess with people's right to own and use guns. the US had no standing army at that point. though the amendment is clear that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," the context and intent are important.

personally, i think the second amendment could stand some re-evaluation. for one thing, i think it's possible to regulate - even to heavily restrict - gun ownership without "infringing" upon that basic right in a constitutionally unacceptable fashion. more radically, i think that despite the founders' wisdom in other areas, american history proves that the health of the state requires that the government infringe this right to some degree.

[/pedant]

This bit I keep seeing in reports makes me wonder how preventable all this was. Why was she so sure?

His shocked mother confirmed that he was behind the massacre, telling reporters: 'You've got the right man.'

crazy, confused, fucked up people do not represent a nation.

― homosexual II, Friday, July 20, 2012 1:17 PM (4 minutes ago)

I don't believe this anymore, sorry.

― Neil Jung (WmC), Friday, July 20, 2012 2:23 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Youre a fucking loser.

zing

lol. classic macgill

wmc you should probably leave alabama

eh, i'm with WmC, there. americans simply can't handle the right to own guns. they prove it over and over again every day. our neighbors to the north, it seems, can handle these sorts of rights. we can't.

wasn't there a big shooting in vancouver the day before?

But of course.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/colorado-shooting-suspect-neighbor-he-seemed-like-a-normal-kid.html

the US had no standing army at that point. though the amendment is clear that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," the context and intent are important.

after 2010, the militia clause doesn't mean much. it's an incorporated right.

as far as actual "citizen militias" go, the swiss are one example. but the swiss are sort of sui generis on a lot of things.

Many xps, but I think talking about how and why we live with so many guns and so many shootings is sort of a natural and probably necessary response every time these things happen. It doesn't solve anything and isn't really even intended to, it's just a way of acknowledging this complicated, unpleasant thing about American life and culture. I'd be more bothered if mass shootings didn't prompt knee-jerk GUNS WTF talk.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra)

i wonder if chris nolan will do a stanley kubrick

I had to think of what you meant, bcz Clockwork was not pulled from theaters in the US.

However I don't think anyone is going to make a serious causal argument here. Still, Fred Willard is unemployable in TV now bcz he wanks in a theater, so who knows.

yeah i was kind of going to ask what you expected on this thread

I'm one of the biggest fucking blowhards in the history of this board and I have my own opinions, maaaan, about what might have prevented this and what might help and what might not but it feels like this isn't maybe the thread to do it on.

like i don't see what the difference is between this and the george zimmerman thread, maybe we should have two threads

- rolling mass murder (gun control discussion)

- rolling mass murder (hugs / cuddlestein mountain)

- rolling disgruntled shootings thread 2010

why so disgruntled

― am0n, Friday, July 20, 2012 7:36 AM (4 hours ago)

as a point of technicality this shooting does not seem to be spurred by 'disgruntlement'

that was made in haste before i'd read past the headlines -_-

i will say that any journo that's done even a bare hint of writerly trickery with this event and batman can burn in hell

here's an interesting factoid

even though our gun murder rate in the US is roughly 50x per capita that of the EU peasants, the overall murder rate is only 5x per capita

spencer ackerman, i love you but this means you: "The brutality of Christopher Nolan’s Gotham City became horrifyingly real during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado as a gunman burst into the theater and murdered at least 12 people. And at least some in the theater initially thought the incident was part of the show."

wasn't there a big shooting in vancouver the day before?

― Philip Nunez, Friday, July 20, 2012 11:39 AM (9 minutes ago)

that's like saying that global warming isn't occurring because "it's not that hot today". canadian gun violence per capita is a blip compared to america's. as a result, they get to keep their guns. we don't.

xp i think the gun ownership rate in the US is roughly 50x per capita that of europe too

Uh.

https://twitter.com/DamonLindelof/status/226385144318144512

The responses are, how you say, mixed.

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/viewsday-1.3683911/james-holmes-rises-as-a-new-dark-knight-villain-after-colorado-shootings-1.3850403

"James Holmes rises as a new 'Dark Knight' villain after Colorado shootings"

seriously stfu

http://f.cl.ly/items/0i3F2R3j0u2U0Z3h0E2l/Screen%20shot%202012-07-20%20at%202.53.36%20PM.png

"And at least some in the theater initially thought the incident was part of the show."

ppl go to too many theme parks.

wait i thought this fool was dropping out of his phd program? that's probably grounds for disgruntlement, no?

wasn't there some movie like that where there's terrorists in a theatre and people think it's part of the show?

re: blips, but these crazy american mass sprees are blips as well. (I agree there's more casual gun violence in the US, but canada doesn't seem immune from blippiness either.)

"I don't think anyone is going to make a serious causal argument here"
i was a little unnerved by how seriously people took the last movie. i dunno about causal, but maybe there's a cultural tripwire that should have gone off?

Lindelof, having ruined Prometheus, is determined to ruin EVERYTHING.

when is a shooter not disgruntled?

max...

#foraurora

the response to Lindelof saying "um, EVERYONE should be quiet in a movie theater regardless" made me lol

i'm getting the feeling that this lindelof guy is kind of a dunce

"ppl go to too many theme parks."

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/R/Andy-Rooney-9542557-2-402.jpg

Going to see The Who tonight in CIncinnati. Will stand in silence during "Eminence Front".

how about we form a hushed, reflectful line to the restroom

wasn't there a big shooting in vancouver the day before?

― Philip Nunez, Friday, July 20, 2012 11:39 AM (9 minutes ago)

that's like saying that global warming isn't occurring because "it's not that hot today". canadian gun violence per capita is a blip compared to america's. as a result, they get to keep their guns. we don't.

― contenderizer, Friday, July 20, 2012 2:51 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

really not an apples to apples comparison as there arent nearly as many guns in canada per capita and a smaller percentage of them are handguns and they have stricter laws re registering transporting concealing etc iirc

which is not to say that canadians arent less violent than americans

wasn't there some movie like that where there's terrorists in a theatre and people think it's part of the show?

― the late great, Friday, July 20, 2012 2:55 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in the dancer upstairs during a play

in Hitchcock's Saboteur

I wouldn't have called them terrorists though.

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Inglourious-Basterds-3.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/30sc5lt.jpg

who are these people who think it matters one bit to see or not see this movie now?

my god i'm really beginning to hate internet fanboy culture in all stripes (ha 'beginning')

http://i.imgur.com/q1ZGq.png

weve completed the ilx cycle of grief in record time

they're not just going to see it, they're going to see it #foraurora

going to calculus guys #forvirginiatech

http://i.imgur.com/UBmy8.png

im sry i will stop swear

it is not possible to see a movie #for anything! and you were going to anyway! this is sub-#kony by an infinite degree.

what's the statement? you were going to go to this movie, but something bad happened, and some people will not go now. but you, you're not not going to go.

to be fair, if they don't go, the thinkpiece writers do win

i was thinking abt seeing it but now im afraid people will be praying so i might wait

Awaiting the inevitable Armond White (over)think-piece on this whole thing.

http://younghipscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/James-Holmes-Aurora-Shooting-1-50x50.jpg

why so serious?

i wish i was on twitter fighting with people about this right now, thank god my phone is 7 years old.

http://i.imgur.com/q1ZGq.png

I'd just like to say that for a good three seconds I was staring at this picture asking myself "... why exactly is that face spitting a ribbon into an ass?"

is it possible the internet has restrained itself from putting jokerface on that dude yet?

Fox News confirming with someone that his hair was dyed red, suggesting that he was emulating The Joker, then mentioning that The Joker's hair was green in The Dark Knight.

is there ANY popular representation of The Joker where his hair is read? i'm not a comics reader but it wasn't red in the adam west show, the burton movie, the animated series, etc etc.

read=red

the joker has green hair iirc

Green hair/white skin has been the Joker's signature look since forever.

http://www.cosplayscion.com/sitebuilder/images/riddler-277x351.jpg

RIP Joker, you almost got Spiderman that one time.

http://www.infinitydish.com/tvblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bozo.jpg

God he was so scary in The Dark Knight.

How will this affect Rush's convictions about new Batman movie as Hollywood liberal plot?

John Cole sums it up:

The Next 48 Hours Summarized For You in One Short Post

R- Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

D- Yes, but guns make it very easy to kill people in large quantities. He would not have been able to stab 71 people.

R- Stop trying to politicize this tragedy! What we need are not fewer guns, but more guns. If only someone else in that theatre had had a gun, they would have been able to stop him in his tracks.

D- Yes. Nothing could go wrong with crossfire in a dark theatre. This is absurd. There is a clear lesson here, and we need to do something about the ease with which people get firearms.

R- There’s no lesson to be learned, the guy was crazy. You can’t stop every crazy person.

D- We could try to make it harder for crazy people to walk around with a shotgun, a rifle, two handguns, and gas cannisters.

R- I knew Obama and you liberals were coming for our guns. Second Amendment!

And after 48 hours, the topic will die down as me move on to the next scandal/tragedy du jour, and then we can have this same exact conversation again the next time someone murders a dozen people with a gun.

somebody just now, irl, tried to argue that if there 'had been 3 people in the theater with guns' this wouldn't have happened

http://deadspin.com/5927782/why-jessica-ghawi-wrote-under-the-name-redfield-and-other-moving-stories-from-the-shooting-victims-colleagues

who's got the first ebook deal!

somebody just now, irl, tried to argue that if there 'had been 3 people in the theater with guns' this wouldn't have happened

Probably too soon to go looking on youtube for the Boogie Nights donut shop scene.

boogie nights otm

jeez, Jessica G's brother just now on "All Things Considered." She left that xpost Canadian Mall because of "a bad feeling," just before the shooting started.

I've seen a couple fb friend non-ironically post those Batman in silhouette tributes. I defriend these people now, y/n?

y

Just delete your fb, more efficient

Well. Fred WIlliard must be breathing easier today.

Fred Willard was breathing easy before bed last night. This kind of thing won't ruin a career anymore like it once could. Most people seem to agree that police should just leave porn theaters alone.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/339402_361009697300849_1101403062_o.jpg

it was all a plot by eric holder to take our precious guns! thank you random facebook asshole for letting me know.

according to my mormon friend i saw the film with the dark knight rises movies itself is actually predictive programming for the london olympics

i wonder what this was predictive programming for

protecting yourself vs government with your gun will be harder in the Drone Era.

What, you don't have your Concealed Drone permit yet?

in the green energy future we'll gas up our segway in the backyard biodiesel converter hooked up to the kitchen vermiculture composter via the solar plumbing panels on the roof that

instead of buying an energy efficient car, you can invest in that money in a solar-powered idrone dirigible so that you can take your g^5 google glasses network with you (railgun not included)

All those Jessica Ghawi links are eating at my heart, man. This shit is awful.

xpost Concealed Drone Permit--My damn Drone keeps starting up at the Library! S-h-h-h-h!

that's a stupid joke

but in a state w/ stand yr ground laws it would be legal put tripod-mounted small arms in your backyard, right? and wire the trigger to the same motion sensor that activates the spotlights?

my mom has one hooked up to a 22 for the gophers

and the deer

'I am the Joker', accused Batman killer tells cops
Hamilton Spectator‎ - 15 minutes ago
James Holmes, his hair dyed red, tells cops that he was playing the Joker character.

tell me this is not real

My first thought was (the film's portrayal of) Bane re: the gas mask :(

I'd just like to say that for a good three seconds I was staring at this picture asking myself "... why exactly is that face spitting a ribbon into an ass?"

― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Friday, July 20, 2012 7:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I kind of love you right now.

people is reporting that state and federal police are confirming it off the record?

i don't know credible people magazine is

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8070/screenshot20120720at408.png

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

Gotta do something for a headline.

MSNBC also reporting the 'joker' angle..

jared laughner again?

suspect in shooting at screening of batman movie had colored his hair red and told police he was "the joker."

next we'll find out he planned it and gathered his weapons at comic con

search-engine-optimized ads on the march...

http://p.twimg.com/AyPFuLkCYAA3cqf.jpg

weapons were bought legally--

Law enforcement officials told NBC News that the weapons were legally bought from local stores of two national chains — Gander Mountain Guns and Bass Pro Shop — beginning in May.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12850048-man-calling-himself-the-joker-kills-12-injures-59-at-dark-knight-rises-screening-in-aurora-colorado-authorities-say?chromedomain=dailynightly&lite

oof

This is only marginally related but I'm posting it just in case brownie or kate78 happen to click on this thread and read this post: WMJI's John Lanigan's son part of Aurora, Colorado arrest team.

(John Lanigan is a Cleveland radio/TV personality who has been on the air, like, my entire life. Everyone in Cleveland knows his name.)

― Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Friday, July 20, 2012 3:54 PM

Wow, the Cleveland connection.Thanks for posting, Phil D.

I went to UC Denver's medical campus and worked on campus in the research buildings (which are evacuated today). What a rough month for Colorado.

No shit, first we were on fire for three weeks, and now this :/

and the shooting in city park a couple weeks ago. jesus christ.

Yes of course

http://gawker.com/5927829/lost-co+creator-damon-lindelof-declares-cynics-win-after-deleting-aurora-tribute-tweet

#partingshots

Heh @ 4chan users (don't go there if you don't know what it is) jokingly implicating rival board 9gag in youtube comments and reporters actually chasing that lead.

oh lord

Yeah, that was supposed to be "Meh" btw :-/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8l1gZTPoA&feature=player_embedded

Heh @ 4chan users (don't go there if you don't know what it is) jokingly implicating rival board 9gag in youtube comments and reporters actually chasing that lead.

― StanM, Saturday, July 21, 2012 12:00 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not at all implying I'm such a star editor-in-chief myself or so very 'internet streetwise', but indeed, ^^ this was painful to watch. And the internet is dominated by media copying that shit. I cannot imagine how I would react if I had an e-i-c telling me to pursue that lead. It's clueless media being clueless.

xp = good direction for this thread

Anything is a good reason to pull open a can of stupidity on the internet these days, but terrible events more so, somehow.

Otherwise reasonably reasonable friend of mine: "you know, this is all because religion is on the way out - people have turned to believing in fictional stories and they don't know bad from good in the real world anymore" - atheist me: "unlike the completely true bible, that has never been somebody's inspiration for killing someone else?" - him: "that's not what I meant!"

haha, good.

laughner

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/colorado-shooting-suspect-really-smart-friend-says.html

He was a normal regular smart guy, but he was quiet and kept to himself. 24h news cycle, thank you.

Also, the "the way the news is being made is news itself" is already going on over here - belgian news site prides itself in having the only foreign reporter at the shooter's parents' house and has an article telling its readers this. Sigh.

Statement from Nolan:

Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of The Dark Knight Rises, I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community. I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime. The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me. Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families.

that is really well put

^^ I have enjoyed several specific journalism websites outlining that process to other journalists. But to make a case of it to the public, making it news itself, is horrible. Bring out the worst in popular media.

xxp to StanM

He should've said something about guns

Respect to mr. Nolan for that statement indeed. xxpost

so npr just said he was a former med student. i know three people that just graduated there, wonder if they knew him

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nra-please-try-to-remember-all-the-wonderful-thing,28858/

xpost: neuroscience.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21121488/aurora-theater-shooting-trauma-rooms-scarmbled-save-lives

^^ nearly everyone he shot who made it to a hospital survived, politics aside we're lucky to have some of the luxuries we do

xpost: neuroscience.

― kate78, Friday, July 20, 2012 6:17 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's what i saw upthread, but that's what they said on the radio \(o_o)/

No matter how many times I unsubscribe from MoveOn emails, they keep coming. Today they're using the opportunity to get me to sign some petition re: gun laws.

Washington is in the palm of the gun lobbies. I get it. Your stupid opportunist petitions aren't going to do shit!

I hear you on the MoveOn emails, they are maddening and even blocking them for spam doesn't work.

ugh moveon and hrc can eat gigantic bags of dicks

I got mad at them last year and wrote them an angry email about something (can't remember what now), unsubscribed AND told them to take me off whatever else they had me on and I haven't heard from them since.

change.org, too. Just thinking about the website means I'm now subscribed to all the emails.

Truth not jokes, imho: http://www.theonion.com/articles/sadly-nation-knows-exactly-how-colorado-shootings,28857/

so npr just said he was a former med student. i know three people that just graduated there, wonder if they knew him

― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, July 20, 2012 7:11 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya just occurred to me that i know someone who goes there

xxpost carl agatha otm

the same person I was speaking with upthread who said that this wouldn't have happened if there had been armed people in the theater, also more or less blamed the parents of the three month old baby for bringing the baby to a midnight showing

i dunno I just need to vent

lol, that onion article reads a bit like a weather report

Try to avoid news sites and channels for a week. CNN already has an "Infants too young for late-night movies?" article on their site. xpost

Gun control

Gun control, not appropriate for this topic.

Try to avoid logic

the shooting was the first thing i read about this morning and this was the second thing i read. more local. i renewed my helicopter parenting license:

http://www.gazettenet.com/2012/07/21/pair-arrested-in-alleged-assault-on-9-year-old-girl-in-northampton

I hate the iPhone Facebook app; my friend in Denver messaged me about 90 minutes after I wrote him and IT NEVER SHOWED UP

I've spent all day going "he's probably okay but what if he isn't" and thinking about his wedding next month

fucking technology

From Ebert's writeup in the NYT

Immediately after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry. Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.

“I was shown how fragile life was,” she wrote. “I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath.”

This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora. The circle of madness is closing.

This is nuts!

you really shouldn't take a baby to the movies but generally speaking the odds of a gunman opening fire is not why

^^

ban babies

xpost the woman ebert's writing about is in the youtube posted upthread

banned parenthood

lol

A lot of folks have already wondered out loud why this sort of thing doesn't happen more often, and in many ways I find that sort of reassuring. It seems that when people go off the deep end, or conspire/aspire to commit a terrorist act, they always seem to go big - down a plane, down a building, down a room full of people - when in fact it would be a lot easier for those who mean terror to just, say, fire a random shot, leave, then do it again somewhere else. Or chuck a grenade in a McDonald's and take off. But thankfully that doesn't happen, knock wood, which underscores just how horrifically atypical these large-scale attacks are, especially taking into account just how many guns are out there.

It actually makes me flash back to the DC sniper, who operated slowly, seemingly randomly, yet very methodically, and really freaked out that part of the country for a prolonged period. That's true terror, the thought that this could happen to you at any moment, with no warning (see also: Zodiac). But for all our totally mad gunmen, that stuff doesn't really happen that often, which makes it seem all the more ridiculous that security has reportedly been beefed up at a handful of theaters. Never mind that Batman is playing on 3000 screens or whatever. Never mind that in theory this could happen at any screening of any movie. Never mind that the shooting took place in a suburb of Denver, which is the very definition of a non-landmark target.

Anyway. Still looking forward to this country righting itself, but this born of violence mentality seems about as likely to change as our driving and oil consumption habits.

well driving and oil consumption have only been around for 100 years, give it time

the "going big" part is just living in the modern era

you could "run amok" in the past but you only had like an axe and six shots, maybe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Kehoe

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured at least 58. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–12 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history.

On the morning of May 18, Kehoe first killed his wife and then set his farm buildings on fire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many of the people inside. Kehoe used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his shrapnel-filled vehicle, killing himself and the school superintendent, as well as killing and injuring several others. During the rescue efforts, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school's south wing.

After the bombings investigators found a wooden sign wired to the farm's fence with Kehoe's last message, "CRIMINALS ARE MADE, NOT BORN," written on it.

He was a rockist:

Near the scene, another neighbor, Rachel Reed, 25, recalled seeing Holmes a number of times on the stoop, with his backpack. A couple of months ago she ran into him at the Zephyr, where she had put a Lil Wayne rap song on the jukebox.

Holmes disapproved, she said, preferring rock 'n' roll music. He came over and "made some racially charged comments about rap," she said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuyama_massacre

i really think these things don't happen often because people (including psychopaths) won't do stuff unless it's a "thing"
they'll stick to the socially scripted ways of flipping out most of the time.

ban all media

i'm really glad this never made it to the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_slapping

it kinda did

"making the bus monitor cry"

all weapons acquired legally, reportedly

6000 rounds of ammunition

lol ilx is the only place in the world where making "racially charged comments about rap" brands you as oh no a rockist rather than a racist

Priorities.

rocko-racist

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/05/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-2011/52162/

According to the German Police University police officers used exactly 85 bullets in 2011 - 49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed. Germany has a population of about 80 million. (This does only take into account shots in connection with crimes. There were an additional 9000 shots on dangerous, sick and injured animals)."

Ban bloggers too. Right and left.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40632_Mass_Murder_in_Colorado_Prompts_Full-on_Right_Wing_Victimhood_Binge

predictably, this one has an example of what the previous link says: http://michellemalkin.com/2012/07/20/blame-righty-impulse-blows-up-in-media-faces-again/

Oi, Rick, no! (his comment about "blood money" after Nolan's statement gets corrected by fellow commenters)

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/christopher-nolan-speaks-about-tragedy/

there was a good article in the bbc today about how localized gun crime is and while city people are rightfully terrified of guns and rural people are basically the opposite, the gun control debate plays out mostly in the suburbs and exurbs

the truth is that gun crime in america, the murder rate in poor urban areas is comparable to the worst parts of europe and iffy parts of south america, while the rest of the country is about the same as europe

the other interesting part of the bbc article was acknowledging 1) its a cost-benefit thing 2) there are no society wide costs and benefits for gun control 3) except politicians, for whom gun control is a net benefit

debating gun control is a benefit, i mean

the gun control debate doesn't mostly play out in the suburbs and exurbs, cities can't ban guns because of people in the suburbs and exurbs. there isn't a debate in cities because nobody fucking wants guns.

oh my god can this thread can go there too

delete first "can"

ban grad schools.

right, that's what the article was saying iatee

in the city they're strongly associated with violent crime. you never see them for any other reason, and cities are overwhelmingly anti-gun.

in the countryside, they don't come out for any reason other than a good one, and even liberals are relaxed on gun control.

it's the suburbs where the debate plays out.

otm, where's the grad school control debate xp

that onion story was all i really needed to read about this i think! it kinda said it all.

oh sorry I thought it was implying that nobody cared xp

no it was saying that unitary gun policy doesn't make sense, because gun crime is most strongly associated - everywhere actually - with small localities, i.e. bay area has like 5-15 murders per 100k people every year but half of it takes place in little one-mile-square clusters where the overall rate is like 20-30 per 100k (making the rest of it like 1 per 100k)

Good idea to stay away from Above Top Secret for a bit too.

xp if you filter out the spree killings, this is probably true everywhere

A lot of folks have already wondered out loud why this sort of thing doesn't happen more often, and in many ways I find that sort of reassuring. It seems that when people go off the deep end, or conspire/aspire to commit a terrorist act, they always seem to go big - down a plane, down a building, down a room full of people - when in fact it would be a lot easier for those who mean terror to just, say, fire a random shot, leave, then do it again somewhere else. Or chuck a grenade in a McDonald's and take off. But thankfully that doesn't happen, knock wood, which underscores just how horrifically atypical these large-scale attacks are, especially taking into account just how many guns are out there.

It actually makes me flash back to the DC sniper, who operated slowly, seemingly randomly, yet very methodically, and really freaked out that part of the country for a prolonged period. That's true terror, the thought that this could happen to you at any moment, with no warning (see also: Zodiac). But for all our totally mad gunmen, that stuff doesn't really happen that often, which makes it seem all the more ridiculous that security has reportedly been beefed up at a handful of theaters. Never mind that Batman is playing on 3000 screens or whatever. Never mind that in theory this could happen at any screening of any movie. Never mind that the shooting took place in a suburb of Denver, which is the very definition of a non-landmark target.

Anyway. Still looking forward to this country righting itself, but this born of violence mentality seems about as likely to change as our driving and oil consumption habits.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, July 20, 2012 7:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what 'the late great' brought up is what i was thinking in response to josh here -- the way this stuff usually plays out is a high level of violence & risk in certain communities that most people don't think about until it happens in some weird spazz out like today's shit. but gun violence in the u.s. is happening constantly

well unitary gun policy makes sense until we can somehow isolate the rural areas from the 1000 sq miles of america that has managed to find its way into the 21st century

xp

i think that if more of the country was like it is in certain inner city communities, more people might be anti- rather than pro-gun control. not in the superhero sense, but in the shot-or-get-shot sense. of course, there's no way what's allowed to happen in disadvantaged communities would be allowed to happen in most communities so thats a null point.

xp wow iatee, that was great

you should do a ted talk where you tell people what it's like in the 21st

'what if...instead of shooting people...we just had a machine where people could pretend to shoot people...we are close to inventing such a machine'

iatee what do you think about segregating europe and the US from countries that haven't got w/ the postcolonial program, are they like in the past too or what

the other thing though deej is that today's spazz out shit is not symptomatic of gun violence, even in places like iraq

no I'm not for total segregation just a border where you have to check all your guns, I think we should still trade w/ texas et al

Welcome to the 21st Century! rosanne says that when u cross in. You are now leaving the 21st Century! when you cross out.

or a hoy hoy when you cross in: "Congratulations on getting your shit together!" when you cross out "your shit is no longer together."

you get a copy of 'duck hunt' as a parting gift, hopefully it'll help spur modernization

spurs is something on your boot son, we just say what we mean

http://gawker.com/5927847/there-is-no-such-thing-as-politicizing-a-tragedy

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/252670_350315198380985_904794333_n.jpg

Um, if these are really kids we're talking about, their inability to separate the sight of Batman from happened to them at the theater makes this THE LAST THING they need to see right now. They'll probably have Batman-related nightmares for the rest of their lives. So, no. This is the worst idea.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/252670_350315198380985_904794333_n.jpg

grad school f's ppl up, seriously.

going the extra mile, johnny fever

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/314704_10151957418490083_1749607771_n.jpg
posted on my fbook news feed w/ the caption "Cool image for a sad event."

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/616675_238754612911838_686439232_o.jpg

Um, if these are really kids we're talking about, their inability to separate the sight of Batman from happened to them at the theater makes this THE LAST THING they need to see right now. They'll probably have Batman-related nightmares for the rest of their lives. So, no. This is the worst idea.

I know people overuse the term "triggering", but I think this probably would trigger a lot of these shooting victims. It's one of the worst ideas I've heard in a long time.

Colorado: Batman's doormat

would he speak in the batvoice?

Let's debate the merits of this thing that has no chance of happening

i love baby batman's chubby whorl knees

sad baby batman's chubby whorl knees

k guys let's all debate whether spin magazine will exist in 2 years

you say "go drown a lady" iirc

^ meme nostalgia

damn iatee's madd

Iatee detonating some truth bombs.

def solid choice of imagery for this thread

mothers against drunk derping

Let's debate the merits of this thing that has no chance of happening

Oh hi, you must be new here.

I'm attending a wedding this weekend and think I should pack a gun.

k guys let's all debate whether spin magazine will exist in 2 years

― iatee, Friday, July 20, 2012 11:03 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

k guys lets all debate whether being a worthless, butthurt internet nobody "International Affairs Professional" is a real life for a grown up

pot kettle black, everyone take a deep fucking breath

seriously, i'm making jokes about some christian bale facebook post and he comes out of nowhere making fun of my personal life? who the fuck is this kid?

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT

Iatee detonating some truth bombs.

This is a thing that literally has never happened, and dragging his urban rural obsession into this thread is a new low.