the totally insane true story behind the 1970s film and book Sybil

as well as the implications of the MPD epidemic and connection with "SRA", or Satanic Ritual Abuse that followed

has anyone read the book? seen the movie?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31YvY9P3BJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I've seen the movie but not read the book. Didn't they just discover she made it all up or it was implanted or something? The whole MPD/SRA phenomenon is completely fascinating to me.

i just finished reading SYBIL EXPOSED by Debbie Nathan

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2011/11/sybil-exposed.jpg

and it kind of blew my mind

epic story of the lives of three women who all have very different motivations, but come to similarly grim ends. and if you were alive in the 80s and early 90s and interested in salacious stories, this should be somewhat familiar. think sally jessy raphael interviews a woman who has 4,888 personalities! (fictional example, but you know what i mean)

I remember that lady on SJR!

yeah this stuff is super interesting and weird

the backstory is BAZONKERS beyond what you could even imagine, but the base truth is that they all made it all up. All three of them, for their own different very personal reasons.

but when up until the point that i read this book, i was pretty sure it was all real. i must have conveniently forgotten (or, if you prefer, dissociated into another self) when the news came out that what happened to shirley mason (sybil) was not exactly as it was represented in the Sybil film and book.

there were plans for a BOARD GAME, y'all

I'm about 100 pages into this, and the book gets a brief mention at the beginning of the chapter on cults. Not finished the chapter yet, so maybe the SRA stuff will turn up soon.

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1316729478l/847607.jpg

It's good to know I can stop having nightmares about the green kitchen.

dr cornelia wilbur had this place called the Open Hospital where she attracted (and treated) thousands of women without much other professional medical supervision, and they were running wild in this place while she was out promoting MPD as a diagnosis, and she got what she wanted.

then it was used as the basis for countless (i say that because i have no idea how many there were) accusations (and convictions!) of Satanic Ritual Abuse, which was always sexual and always grim enough to make a person want to dissociate.

it was a huge witchhunt! i mean, i just think it's amazing to have experienced a real modern witchhunt.

there was also billy milligan, who i remember from childhood because my mom had his tabloid bio by her bed for like a gazillion years.

you can TOTALLY stop having nightmares -- it's a classic hag horror film.

i declare it so

woman who wrote the sybil bk also wrote this excellent true crime/serial killer study:

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1299267908l/67921.jpg

Yeah, and she also started visiting him in jail and being his 70 year old female companion!

At the end, she wrote to him, “I cannot tell you, Boomy Bum Boo, how much it meant to me to be with you.”

“I cannot tell you, Boomy Bum Boo, how much it meant to me to be with you.”

This line has been haunting me!

I mean, maybe the woman who wrote Sybil Exposed is taking this one step further and adding her own ambitious twist to this story, but she has all of her material sourced and all of the papers are archived at John Jay College, where Flora used to teach. It's just a totally jaw droppingly weird story.

On the SRA tip, my grandparents had this book on their shelves when I was a kid, and I used to leaf through it and be simultaneously fascinated and terrified:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5e/Michelle_Remembers.jpg

YES! I was thinking of getting a copy of that.

Is there a more modern version of this book?
http://staging.tralucent.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-and-the-Madness-of-Crowds.jpg? I like the old ones too, but I already read that one.

It kind of amazes me that we went through a period in 20th century America where people believed in gigantic, Satan-worshipping cults abusing scores of kids on the regular with nobody noticing.

That's what I'm saying! It's BANANANANANANANANAS! Also, what does the massive popular interest in child sex torture in the name of Satan say about the nature of our interests?

I got really into Michelle Remembers recently - some of the scenes are so comic that they'll stay with me forever - like when her captor/owner reveals that he's thinking of getting into Satanism, he does so by throwing the horns. With a straight face, like he says "I need something more than just drugs and pornography and prostitution?" and she says, horrified, "What? What could you need?" and he raises his hand with the pinkie and index finger up in response. And then she says "No, no, noooo!"

The woman who wrote it went on to do more hoaxes where she pretended to be a holocaust survivor!

And there's never been any evidence of any such things existing at all, right? I think a lot of people probably still believe that it exists tbh.

I mean of large scale satanic ritual abuse and cults or whatever.

I run a large-scale Satanic cult but we are 100% anti-abuse, we do all the other stuff like blood rituals and heavy doper parties but without the abuse part we can't seem to attract any media attention

And there's never been any evidence of any such things existing at all, right?
right

Sybil Exposed is a great book!

I remember my high school psychology teacher being very into multiple personality disorder and showing our class Sybil, and even then it didn't ring true to me.

at least in dr wilbur's case, the evidence was in the recalled memories that were elicited through sessions in which the frequent injections of Pentothal and a host of other drugs that she administered to the people she treated ERASED the memory of the session for the patient. that was part of her method.

strangely, many people seem to have been hung up on meathooks by their parents.

that first sentence has some clause issues but you follow me, i hope

my mom used to call me Sybil all the time. THANKS MOMS

shoemaker makes me want to start a thread of signet book covers from the 80s

Nicole, have you read any of Debbie Nathan's other books? She has a couple of others that sound interesting to me -- one about her investigation of the SRA paranoia and another about PORNOGRAPHY.

Satan's Silence, a 1995 work which Nathan co-authored with Michael Snedeker, examined and "debunked" the wave of satanic ritual abuse allegations that took place beginning in the 1980s.[9][10] Victor Navasky described the book as the "definitive study" of the subject,[11] and a CounterPunch columnist credited the book as having "exposed and virtually stopped the so-called satanic cult child sex panic".[12] Paul Okami's review of the book in The Journal of Sex Research noted that the book "is not . . . a scientific work", and he had some criticisms of its organization and what Okami saw as misapplication of certain social-science concepts and an overreliance in some parts of the book on feminist and leftist economic theory; nevertheless, Okami judged the book to be "essential reading . . . for its devastating journalistic portrait" and "for its more general analysis of proximate mechanisms by which our society can become vulnerable to patent collective madness."[13]

Pornography, published in 2007, is written as a concise "guidebook" on the subject of pornography.[14] A Canadian reviewer described the writing as "frank and cool", and made note of Nathan's assertion that no connection has been established between the use of pornography and criminal behavior, as well as her focus on the "connection between porn and shame" to define pornography.[15]

Sunny, that is super fucked up. But it's way worse to be Sybil's mom than it is to be Sybil. Sybil's mom supposedly took many public dumps, had lesbian orgies in the woods with underage girls, and administered punitive enemas to Sybil while she was suspended from the kitchen's light fixture. (It is highly unlikely and completely unconfirmed by multiple firsthand witness interviews with people who knew her personally and intimately). So no harm done in the long run amirite?

EIII please do

who did that art, anyway?

I haven't taught a single Sybil in 15 years--I don't think I've even known one in my entire life. Like Adolf, it's a name that seems to have fallen out of favor.

Tears For Fears, named their album, 'Songs From the Big Chair', after a phrase used in the 1976 movie. In fact the track 'Big Chair' was inspired by 'Sybil' and the fact she felt safe in the big chair in her therapist's office.

is there a good precis on any of this stuff available anywhere (relevant wiki entry?), so far this thread is p much elliptically the same as the catholic church thread

Her real name is Shirley Mason
This is her
http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/criminal_mind/psychology/multiples/3-3-Sybil-Shirley-K-Mason.jpg

Dr Cornelia Wilbur is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelia_B._Wilbur

I haven't taught a single Sybil in 15 years--I don't think I've even known one in my entire life. Like Adolf, it's a name that seems to have fallen out of favor.

― clemenza, Monday, July 30, 2012 10:25 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I really like it! I think someone should bring it back.

Flora Schreiber's NYT obit http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/04/obituaries/flora-schreiber-70-the-writer-of-sybil-and-of-shoemaker.html

One perspective on Satanic Ritual Abuse http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra.htm/

ty LL
i figure this is maybe also useful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
if not wrt this then just to keep as a pinned tab on the next library computer you use

while she was suspended from the kitchen's light fixture.

I feel like light fixtures cannot actually withstand this? I guess it depends.

xp - yes, indeed. i can't wait for my friends and family to see my amazon wish list when they buy me birthday presents this year.

here is the most well known of shirley mason's paintings

http://www.hiddenpaintings.com/uploads/Entrapment_s.jpg

laurel, she was a slight child

I don't think there's a single sum-up but there are a lot of individual books & documentaries that I basically can't resist every time I see one

That's why I wanted to read Debbie Nathan's book. I think it is that book.

Satan's Silence

I mean who can resist SATAN'S SILENCE?!

i read "sybil exposed" too and it is nuts

http://www.youtube.com/embed/6pdRbfVLO6g

Worst Mother in Film: Now with Laugh Track!

1973 Nervous Breakdown is a far better book but this goes deep into the culture-wide dread that fueled the satanic ritual abuse epidemic

http://ebooks-imgs.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/087/529/400000000000000087529_s4.png

Jenkins also wrote a book about cults - Mystics & Messiahs - but it's not that great. he's kind of neo-conservative and middlebrow, a bad combo

I used to listen to this dude's comedy albums when I was a Christian, he is a pathetically tragic figure in the whole Satanic Panic era, being mostly a fraud who was exposed by a Christian magazine, Cornerstone.

man, "Unsolved Mysteries" and "20/20" were obsessed with satanic panic

Warnke's exposure in Cornerstone is one of the all-time great moments in evangelical culture, so amazing

Although I am now more than two decades removed from it, I remain fascinated by the ephemera of evangelical culture. Warnke, Bob Larson, Carman, Mylon LeFevre, DeGarmo & Key, Kerry Livgren's A/D . . . endlessly amazing stuff.

Oof that's a good story. I love fallen frauds, esp if they had followers.

I just want to clarify that there were clearly other factors influencing the Satanic panic/MPD mania of the 80s/90s, BUT a major foundation of the argument supporting it came from the research and promotion of Dr Cornelia Wilbur, who started the "repressed sexual childhood memories" aspect that formed the foundation of SRA evidence.

aero we should start a thread on ILM on CCM music of the 80s/90s. Wonder how many people would participate?

I'd be in.

(I remember Warnke clearly. btw...saw him live at least twice. Had already secularized myself by the time Cornerstone blew the lid off his "ministry," though.)

I was not a Christian, so I don't know anything about that music at all. Kinda freaks me out tbh.

I would like a signet paperback covers thread.

My parents used to get all these Christian music mailorder catalogs and I would read them cover-to-cover the same way I would w/ Columbia House & BMG and the one thing that always astounded me was that Petra had a seemingly endless discography and yet I have never, ever heard their name mentioned anywhere other than those catalogs.

Are there any threads about 60s-70s hippie Jesus folk-rock?

My 7th gr math teacher had a daughter who loved Petra! That is the only way I ever heard the name.

WmC, I think so -- it's a hot commodity among collectors iirc?

Private labels, small pressings, etc

as is generally known I am the biggest Amy Grant fan on ilx

Contemporary Christian Music: 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond

wow, this is something http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/anton_lavey.htm

Kinda want to see Amy Grant get in a boxing ring against somebody and see if the the combo of aero's 2 biggest fandoms makes him essplode.

As long as she doesn't fight that dude from Bulgaria in the Olympics bout from Saturday. That guy was fierce.

Had no idea Sybil had been debunked!

My step-mother had all these books. She was an Irish Catholic who had lost a son to crib death. I remember Helter Skelter, The Eyes of Laura Mars, these book covers with slack-jawed children being threatened by some sinister being above the book title. So many Stephen King books…

She made a mean cheese dip, I do give her that.

I am seriously looking forward to seeing people's "Sybil's been debunked!" reactions!!

There's even a major point that I will not mention because you will just have to read the book.

Unless someone injects me with powerful substances and elicits the information from me, that is.

All that's missing from that Anton LaVey thing is a connection to Jack the Ripper and the Knights Templar. They've got everything else.

what was nuts to me was how long and completely symbiotic the relationship was between the doctor and "sybil." like this was something that went on for decades, and they were totally dependent on each other. also some pretty serious self-deception going on on both sides - they both had to be aware that there was fakery going on, but i don't think either thought they were doing something wrong or cynical or self-serving.

right -- like with all the hospitals they worked at together, and how she got sybil all these jobs as an art therapist, and encouraged her to go to school to be a psychiatrist?!

they went on vacations together

yet shirley mason still owed her for the therapy?

shirley's religious background was interesting too. i didn't know much about 7th day adventists.

I keep thinking you're talking about the woman from Garbage.

So has MPD been debunked or just Sybil/Shirley?

That is a good question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

from the History wiki section, take it fwiw

Before the 19th century, people exhibiting symptoms similar to those were believed to be possessed.[49] The first case of DID was thought to be described by Paracelsus in 1646.[55]

An intense interest in spiritualism, parapsychology, and hypnosis continued throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries,[6] running in parallel with John Locke's views that there was an association of ideas requiring the coexistence of feelings with awareness of the feelings.[56] Hypnosis, which was pioneered in the late 18th century by Franz Mesmer and Armand-Marie Jacques de Chastenet, Marques de Puységur, challenged Locke's association of ideas. Hypnotists reported what they thought were second personalities emerging during hypnosis and wondered how two minds could coexist.[6]

The 19th century saw a number of reported cases of multiple personalities which Rieber[56] estimated would be close to 100. Epilepsy was seen as a factor in some cases,[56] and discussion of this connection continues into the present era.[57][58]

By the late 19th century there was a general acceptance that emotionally traumatic experiences could cause long-term disorders which might display a variety of symptoms.[59] These conversion disorders were found to occur in even the most resilient individuals, but with profound effect in someone with emotional instability like Louis Vivé (1863-?) who suffered a traumatic experience as a 13-year-old when he encountered a viper. Vivé was the subject of countless medical papers and became the most studied case of dissociation in the 19th century.

Between 1880 and 1920, many great international medical conferences devoted a lot of time to sessions on dissociation.[60] It was in this climate that Jean-Martin Charcot introduced his ideas of the impact of nervous shocks as a cause for a variety of neurological conditions. One of Charcot's students, Pierre Janet, took these ideas and went on to develop his own theories of dissociation.[61] One of the first individuals diagnosed with multiple personalities to be scientifically studied was Clara Norton Fowler, under the pseudonym Christine Beauchamp; American neurologist Morton Prince studied Fowler between 1898 and 1904, describing her case study in his 1906 monograph, Dissociation of a Personality.[61]

In the early 20th century interest in dissociation and multiple personalities waned for a number of reasons. After Charcot's death in 1893, many of his so-called hysterical patients were exposed as frauds, and Janet's association with Charcot tarnished his theories of dissociation.[6] Sigmund Freud recanted his earlier emphasis on dissociation and childhood trauma.[6]

In 1910, Eugen Bleuler introduced the term schizophrenia to replace dementia praecox. A review of the Index medicus from 1903 through 1978 showed a dramatic decline in the number of reports of multiple personality after the diagnosis of schizophrenia became popular, especially in the United States.[62] A number of factors helped create a large climate of skepticism and disbelief; paralleling the increased suspicion of DID was the decline of interest in dissociation as a laboratory and clinical phenomenon.[60]

Starting in about 1927, there was a large increase in the number of reported cases of schizophrenia, which was matched by an equally large decrease in the number of multiple personality reports.[60] Bleuler also included multiple personality in his category of schizophrenia. It was concluded in the 1980s that DID patients are often misdiagnosed as suffering from schizophrenia.[60]

The public, however, was exposed to psychological ideas which took their interest. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Robert Louis Stevenson's Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, and many short stories by Edgar Allan Poe had a formidable impact.[56] In 1957, with the publication of the book The Three Faces of Eve and the popular movie which followed it, the American public's interest in multiple personality was revived. During the 1970s an initially small number of clinicians campaigned to have it considered a legitimate diagnosis.[60]

Between 1968 and 1980 the term that was used for dissocative identity disorder was "Hysterical neurosis, dissociative type". The APA wrote in the second edition of the DSM: "In the dissociative type, alterations may occur in the patient's state of consciousness or in his identity, to produce such symptoms as amnesia, somnambulism, fugue, and multiple personality."[63] The number of cases sharply increased in the late 1970s and throughout the 80s, and the first scholarly monographs on the topic appeared in 1986.[18]

In 1974 the highly influential book Sybil was published, and later made into a miniseries in 1976 and again in 2007. Describing what Robert Rieber called “the third most famous of multiple personality cases”,[64] it presented a detailed discussion of the problems of treatment of “Sybil”, a pseudonym for Shirley Ardell Mason. Though the book and subsequent films helped popularize the diagnosis, later analysis of the case suggested different interpretations, ranging from Mason’s problems being iatrogenically induced through therapeutic methods used by her psychiatrist, Cornelia B. Wilbur or an inadvertent hoax due in part to the lucrative publishing rights,[64][65] though this conclusions has itself been challenged.[66] As media attention on DID increased, so too did the controversy surrounding the diagnosis.[55]

With the publication of the DSM-III, which omitted the terms "hysteria" and "neurosis" (and thus the former categories for dissociative disorders), dissociative diagnoses became "orphans" with their own categories[67] with dissociative identity disorder appearing as "multiple personality disorder".[18] In the opinion of McGill University psychiatrist Joel Paris, this inadvertently legitimized them by forcing textbooks, which mimicked the structure of the DSM, to include a separate chapter on them and resulted in an increase in diagnosis of dissociative conditions. Once a rarely occurring spontaneous phenomena (research in 1944 showed only 76 cases),[68] became "an artifact of bad (or naïve) psychotherapy" as patients capable of dissociating were accidentally encouraged to express their symptoms by "overly fascinated" therapists.[67]

"Interpersonality amnesia" was removed as a diagnostic feature from the DSM III in 1987, which may have contributed to the increasing frequency of the diagnosis.[18] There were 200 reported cases of DID as of 1980, and 20,000 from 1980 to 1990.[69] Joan Acocella reports that 40,000 cases were diagnosed from 1985 to 1995.[70] Scientific publications regarding DID peaked in the mid-1990s then rapidly declined.[71]

In 1994, the fourth edition of the DSM replaced the criteria again and changed the name of the condition from "multiple personality disorder" to the current "dissociative identity disorder" to emphasize the importance of changes to consciousness and identity rather than personality. The inclusion of interpersonality amnesia helped to distinguish DID from dissociative disorder not otherwise specified, but the condition retains an inherent subjectivity due to difficulty in defining terms such as personality, identity, ego-state and even amnesia.[18] The ICD-10 still classifies DID as a "Dissociative [conversion] disorder" and retains the name "multiple personality disorder" with the classification number of F44.8.81.[1]

A 2006 study compared scholarly research and publications on DID and dissociative amnesia to other mental health conditions, such as anorexia nervosa, alcohol abuse and schizophrenia from 1984 to 2003. The results were found to be unusually distributed, with a very low level of publications in the 1980s followed by a significant rise that peaked in the mid-1990s and subsequently rapidly declined in the decade following. Compared to 25 other diagnosis, the mid-90's "bubble" of publications regarding DID was unique. In the opinion of the authors of the review, the publication results suggest a period of "fashion" that waned, and that the two diagnoses "[did] not command widespread scientific acceptance".[71]

All those stories of how a person could be a housewife by day, but then "turn into" some Bavarian count inthe afternoon always seemed a little fishy.

I'll bring Billy Milligan back -- he was the landmark legal case for MPD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Milligan

William Stanley Milligan (born Feb 14, 1955), known as Billy Milligan, was the subject of a highly publicized court case in Ohio in the late 1970s. After having committed several felonies including armed robbery, he was arrested for three rapes on the Ohio State University campus. In the course of preparing his defense, psychologists diagnosed Milligan with multiple personality disorder. His lawyers pleaded insanity, claiming that two of his alternate personalities committed the crimes without Milligan's being aware of it. He was the first person diagnosed with multiple personality disorder to raise such a defense.[1]

One day I will fight aero for title of biggest Amy Grant fan on ilx, and then when we are all scuffled and mussed we'll call a truce and agree never to fight again and seal the deal with a duet of "Sharayah."

Have I posted this recently?

Dating a split personality

I had an ex who had some trauma previously in her life, blamed herself for a death, heard her asking forgiveness (of the deceased person) all the time. Sometimes would sleepwalk and try to leave the room, wake up screaming, crying, etc.

Anyway, at some point I found out that this girl had multiple personalities. One would usually wake up about ten minutes before the other (normal) girlfriend. Problems were thus...

Early riser knew who I was, which is why it took me a little bit to catch on

Early riser was a genuinely happy person, who I honestly liked better than my actual gf.

Early riser was always horny.

These were problems because, my actual girlfriend, waking up in the middle of... stuff, was none to happy to discover it happening. Luckily, she apparently knew about this, so it didn't take much explaining to get the situation sorted out. From then on she just let me know that I should make absolutely sure she was awake.

Early riser started showing up more often. Eventually I became rather good at differentiating between the two by just looking at their smile. My SO's smile was usually fake, it hurt me to see. Early riser was always happy. However, I learned that early riser didn't take no for an answer when it came to morning time intimacy, which was obviously a problem. I figured out that by pretending to go along with it, and brushing her hair behind her ear as if I was about to kiss her, I could wake my gf up. For some reason behind her ear was like a wake up button. I employ this technique effectively for a while.

I'd like you to understand that all of this so far has been the build up, what comes next is what gives me an adrenaline rush to this day. Up until this point I didn't actually know that early riser was a separate individual, I had just assumed it was my girlfriend being half-asleep and carefree in the morning.

One day early riser wakes me up trying to get some sexy times. I roll over smiling and begin to brush her hair back. She grabs my wrist... really hard. I stop. "What's wrong?"

"I don't wan't you to touch behind my ear"

slightly freaked out "Why not?"

"Because then you go away"

Cue realization crashing down around me. I got less adrenaline bungee jumping, I kid you not. I fumbled around stalling for time until my girlfriend woke up.

Every time early riser would show up after that she would grab my wrist if I tried to go near her ear. Usually managed to find away to sneak my hand back there anyway. One day she didn't try to grab my wrist. I touched behind her ear... nothing. She smiled at me like she knew, I felt like my heart had stopped. I panicked a little bit and just shook my gf awake at that point. Didn't see as much of her (early riser) after that.

(I copied and pasted that from somewhere. Not my testimony.)

wtf is that

from where?

I do not vouch for its veracity.

http://nitsuj001.xanga.com/765671367/dating-a-split-personality/

the shoemaker was a crazy book. especially when he starts making orthopedic shoes for mice...

dang
i gotta read that

Michelle Remembers
Satan's Silence
The Shoemaker

^^ i might totally fritz out if i read these three books in a row, y/n?

Just split 'em up between your multiples.

the closest i ever came to a famous split personality case. family down the street from my house. they had an exorcism and everything. and there was a murder involved. though i guess satanic posession is a bit different than multiple personalities.

http://www.kosmokratoras.com/images/the_devil_in_connecticut_book.jpg

kinda looked like the front door to our house too on the cover of that book. which freaked me out at the time.

Early riser was always horny

is like the first line of a limerick

Is that the same as the 'haunting in CT' family?

spent a couple of hours trying to find downloadable pdfs of gerald brittle books recently...

you can watch the whole t.v. movie on youtube. kevin bacon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3srA2TuLE

i knew the kids involved after the fact and they were remarkably normal considering, uh, events in their lives.

Scott that is a great story!

my layperson's guess is that MPD is real but much rarer than people think it is and pretty different in how it manifests than has been represented in movies/tv

From the book description of Sybil, Exposed

Before Sybil was published, there had been fewer than 200 known cases of MPD; within just a few years after, more than 40,000 people would be diagnosed with it. Set across the twentieth century and rooted in a time when few professional roles were available to women, this is a story of corrosive sexism, unchecked ambition, and shaky theories of psychoanalysis exuberantly and drastically practiced. It is the story of how one modest young woman’s life turned psychiatry on its head and radically changed the course of therapy, and our culture, as well.

Seeing "The Demonologist" on Scott's book cover of course brings to mind Ed and Lorraine Warren.

oh and i think the big deal about my hometown thing was it was the first time anyone had used demonic posession as a defense in a murder case. or something like that.

andy griffith plays ed warren in the demon murder case movie!

will watch!

WILL WATCH!

it's really amusing to me that i (we) grew up in a climate so thick with this super bizarro stuff. are these paranoid delusions from damage done in the diabolically grim 1970s? fallout from acid damage in the 60s? i really don't know.

fun facts - before Sybil, LLC,
-- Dr C Wilbur wrote a book about how to cure homosexuality and treated Roddy Mcdowell.
-- Flora Schreiber wrote pioneering "it happened to me!" articles for women's magazines
-- Shirley Mason was living in the city and going to school.
-- One of them tried to invent a special foot soap (i forget which one?), but it tanked.

IMO general climate of fear following on from the 60s in a 'we have opened pandoras box omg what will be the price' style.

argh it's killing me that I can't remember the name of this metal 'zine that had a whole issue devoted to Satanic Panic, including a cross-referenced map of the San Diego area with alleged "incidents" ... very funny issue I kept around for a long time.

ah found it

http://www.geneticdisorder.net/04.BuyZines/Covers.Buy/14.jpg

MO general climate of fear following on from the 60s in a 'we have opened pandoras box omg what will be the price' style

Yes--bad fallout all over the place, from Manson to There's a Riot Goin' On and everything in between. You could spend all day listing examples, and 1973 Nervous Breakdown does.

When Rabbit Howls, anyone? I know I read that one, probably on summer vacation.

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1207881551l/1275374.jpg

I'll wishlist the 1973 book too.

oops
http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1207881551l/1275374.jpg

The Troops for Truddi Chase

loved that book. so great.

watch this whole thing....if you dare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgdbT5hBDc&feature=channel&list=UL

haha we were just talking about when rabbit howls at dinner at my friend's place on saturday!

too bad the movie isn't on youtube. shelley long!

whoa
i watched 54 sec and had to pause
that lady is too much!

shelley duvall was in the movie?! this is all coming back to me! i feel like...like i am releasing repressed childhood memories. DEMONS.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/524152_10151718561067137_543168408_n.jpg

oh RIGHT!!

i share a bday with shelley long, now i know why!

i was thinking about dream casting shelley duvall as shirley mason.

'with tom conti'

that is a GREAT poster

ad, whatever

One of them tried to invent a special foot soap (i forget which one?), but it tanked.

the doc - don't think it was a foot soap, just some kind of special industrial soap

oh man I worked at a library when When Rabbit Howls came out - I worked at the County Regional HQ shipping out books to the branches. I was so stoked that it was credited to "The Troops for Truddi Chase," such a masterstroke

i recently picked this up... haven't read into it but holy hell it is gloriously bad and trashy

http://whoyoucallingaskeptic.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/michelle-remembers-1980.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

Michelle Remembers is a book published in 1980 co-written by Canadian psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder and his psychiatric patient (and eventual wife) Michelle Smith. A best-seller, Michelle Remembers was the first book written on the subject of Satanic ritual abuse and is an important part of the controversies beginning in the 1980s regarding satanic ritual abuse and repressed memory. The book has been discredited by several investigations which found no corroboration of the book's events, while others have pointed out that the events described in the book were extremely unlikely and in some cases impossible.

Love the Trudy personality that's wearing sunglasses.

that's the same michelle remembers mentioned above, only with the more recent cover?

So what was the deal with Three or 3 Faces of Eve? Any investigative reporting on that case? Much more harrowing: sorting out truth and BS in child-abuse scandals. The once-notorious panic bubble in Jordan, Minnesota, with any truth obscured by a seemingly whack District Attorney, for inst. Then again, that amazingly zig-zag documentary about the guy who ran an after-school computer class, in the 70s I think.

the truddi in the middle is my favorite, "struggling truddi"

Joanne Woodward as Eve and Dr Wilbur is a casting masterstroke.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Capturing_the_friedmans_dvd_cover.jpg

Debbie Nathan was interviewed in that movie!

one of the best docs I've ever seen, no lols implied

agree, one of my favorites of the last decade

one major parallel in both trends: the possibility of coaching testimony, false memory, etc--memory is so weird anyway

also see: false confessions under police interrogation

I really MUST READ SOMETHING IN THIS GENRE... SOON! I am going to the bookstore tonight. I remember the Connecticut devil book! It scared the shit out of me!

Someone give me the best one to start with first. Really wish MICHELLE REMEMBERS was still in circulation :(

have you read SYBIL?

lol I bought a used copy of Michelle Remembers at Powell's last month, read it in my hotel room over the next day or so, and left it there on purpose because I didn't have any more use for it & it was a totally creepy book - like so clearly a cynical made-up story that you feel like you're implicit in something gross by listening to the stories this person wants you to believe she believes are true

echoes of jt leroy too

on top of all of the "is it true" complexity, there's a huge undercurrent of really gruesome exploitation in all this stuff

Capturing the Friedmans story is so sad

I've never read Sybil. That might be the best one to start with.

At times like these I wish I had a Kindle.

on top of all of the "is it true" complexity, there's a huge undercurrent of really gruesome exploitation in all this stuff

Pretty much the entire "True Crime" section of any paperback dealer.

yeah
has anyone read LOBSTER BOY?
the guy who wrote the book becomes part of the story at the end, it's crazy

I mean while we're talking true crime, this is my alltime favorite -- the book has all of these letters written to William Corder from women who wanted to marry him. It's totally bonkers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Barn_Murder

Full title The Murder of Maria Marten Being an Authentic and Faithful History with a full Development of the most Extraordinary Circumstances which Led to the Discovery of Her Body in the Red Barn

homoII you should read sybil -- it's lurid, you'll love it

The Village Voice once published a round-up (by Richard Gehr?) of Christian horror fiction, incl at least one about parents who did not spare the rod and thus did not spoil the child, so attracted the attention of secretly Satanic social workers. This was by Roger Elwood, pretty sure (he used to flood the market with paperback-original science fiction and fantasy anthologies, finally announced he was leaving that game to the Godless)

At times like these I wish I had a Kindle.

Most of this stuff is not in print digitally either iirc

It was quite a trend, with the Satanic govt entities

Thanks for reminding me of Sybil Exposed. I found it completely fascinating and told all my friends to read it though none did. Some people probably think it's a simple debunking story but it really delves into many strange and creepy aspects of our recent cultural history. It would make a great choice for a book club.

What's disturbing is to read reviews of it and see people still defending the original Sybil book or at least trying to salvage some bit of truth from the whole premise of it.

I'm not sure about the veracity of the case of "Eve," but she only had three faces while Sybil claimed 16.

I remember as a kid, being inundated with "child abuse" media... lots of tv movies (I remember one about a father that sexual abused his kids but I don't remember the title), that one mini series wherein Farrah Fawcett murders her kids, Sybil, etc. I remember thinking every adult wanted to murder me and/or molest me. It was kinda creepy.

EIII please do

― nicest bitch of poster (La Lechera), Monday, July 30, 2012 10:23 AM (2 hours ago)

I would like a signet paperback covers thread.

― tokyo rosemary, Monday, July 30, 2012 10:55 AM (2 hours ago)

here ya go

signet horror paperback covers of the 70s and 80s and related desiderata

From the Age of Trilogies, of course
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PSM2KB02L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

not only social workers................................

this is the point in the conversation where I feel obligated to point out that child abuse is very very common and a lot of these people's fantasies about beyond-the-pale organized abuse rings are probably ways of coping with more garden-variety horrors like "an uncle abused me one time & when I mentioned it to my mother she said not to worry about it and that it wouldn't happen again, which it didn't, but it still had a terrible effect on me" -- stories like that in people's pasts that fuck them up real good but lack the Giant Demonic Cabal aspect that at least makes them feel like there was some meaning in there somewhere

like, my point is, it'd be nice to think of the people advancing these narratives as just cynical hucksters, but for your cynicism to be that total, probably something very fucked up happened to you at some point during your development

the above point is U & K

and only makes it sadder

That's what I meant about xpost Much more harrowing: sorting out truth and BS in child-abuse scandals

applies to genesis of Satanic too

one prob with exploitation in 70s and 80s, would to such stupefying heights, esp when cable TV talk shows ruled, there would be a pile-on of "experts", a lot of people would eventually automatically tune out, the circus would move on and/or just make regular news-cycle returns, real child abuse etc would still be a problem, with possibilities of hysteria, exploitation factored into hesitations and/or rationalizations of reporting abuse.

and only makes it sadder
agree 100%

that's part of why sybil exposed is so poignant -- each of these women are real people looking for something in their own lives, each a different thing, and to think that they got tangled up in something so extensive is totally fascinating.

I run a large-scale Satanic cult but we are 100% anti-abuse, we do all the other stuff like blood rituals and heavy doper parties but without the abuse part we can't seem to attract any media attention

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, July 30, 2012 7:14 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

there was an x-files episode that was basically about this (and fake repressed memories!), it didn't work out so well b/c satan got pissed.

I dated someone who claimed to have been a satanist in his 20's. He told me they had crazy orgies and goat blood and shit. And he had an altar to Baphomet in his apartment, but then freaky shit went down and he stopped being a satanist. Can anyone Satanists in the house confirm these rituals? I am curious. FOREVER CURIOUS.

"They had crazy orgies - involving goat blood n shit" (not actual shit)

Sorry, bad grammar today.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T5fAJG5vL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

click to look inside THIS PSYCHO'S BRRANE

see Ed Sanders' The Family Seemed pretty solid, don't know how it might compare to prosecuter Vincent Bugliosi's Helter Skelter

always thought trudi chase was like the punchline to the hardworkin' jamaicans gag on in living color

"you only got eighteen personalities? why so lazy, i got NINETY TWO!"

this is the point in the conversation where I feel obligated to point out that child abuse is very very common and a lot of these people's fantasies about beyond-the-pale organized abuse rings are probably ways of coping with more garden-variety horrors like "an uncle abused me one time & when I mentioned it to my mother she said not to worry about it and that it wouldn't happen again, which it didn't, but it still had a terrible effect on me" -- stories like that in people's pasts that fuck them up real good but lack the Giant Demonic Cabal aspect that at least makes them feel like there was some meaning in there somewhere

Agreed -- I think it would probably be easier to live with the idea of a mysterious satanic cult being responsible for your abuse than your dad or your favorite teacher.

Twin Peaks etc

So did Sybil's mom actually abuse her or was that all up to?

I'm not sure there's an easy y/n answer to that question.

All signs point to no, as far as this book is concerned. Mattie/Hattie was weird, but the really gory stuff detailed in the book did not happen if Sybil Exposed is to be believed, and I think it is. None of the accusations were confirmed by people close to her, including the family housekeeper who kept in touch with Shirley/Sybil long after she left home. There was no grain storage barn for her to be suffocated in. No one ever saw her defecate on their (or anyone else's) lawn, and the family doctor Otoniel Flores was long dead and his papers had been destroyed too.

I would hate to say that I "don't believe" Shirley because that's not true either. She was under the influence of a powerfully persuasive woman who injected her with powerful drugs and kept her otherwise medicated for a really really long time. Dr Wilbur also kept Shirley in debt to her for the years of therapy all while helping her to get jobs in the field of mental health. If anyone abused Shirley Mason to the point where her life was ruined, it's sadly more likely to be Dr Wilbur than her mother. The screenwriter expressed a lot of doubt about the stories, even Flora Schreiber expressed doubts about the stories, but everyone just kept going with the business of Sybil, LLC.

Plus, a lot of original material was destroyed when Dr Wilbur died and left her estate to one of her former patients and confidants, who proceed to shred/dispose of a whole lot of papers and notes and whatnot. It's a big mess, basically.

Yeah, that is what I sort of thought but wasn't clear on. Totally going to read this.

But Joanne Woodward's so kindly.

When I was in college, Ed and Lorraine Warren came to speak.

I had a work-study job for the activities board, and was assigned to pick them up in their hotel. I had them sit in the back seat of my Toyota, and I drove them to the college. They did not talk to me or each other for the entire twenty minute ride. I had forgotten some keys in my dorm room, so I had them come with me when I retrieved them. Ed stood downstairs (I think he smoked a cigarette) and Lorraine came up. I tried to make small talk with her, but she just stood in the doorway while I grabbed the keys.

When I went back downstairs, she said "He's got a veeerry interesting room, Eddie" and winked at her husband. And then I didn't sleep for two weeks.

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1252845799l/1507013.jpg

hahaha oh man

I had to look her up that that is the lady is often on the trashy ghost shows I like

Wait - what do they have to do with Sybil or MPD?

oh maybe just demons? nm

Anyway, that lady rules. I would have made her investigate my room. nb I don't actually believe in ghosts. At all.

They don't have anything to do with sybil/MPD but they were ghost hunters real early in the game. They were basically the equiv of the little old lady in Poltergeist.

Yeah, I was just kind of riffing on the theme of possession. Lorraine Warren is a sweet old loon. She played some truly terrifying recordings of exorcisms, and showed us video of a rocking chair moving on its own, and 8mm footage of a posessed Raggedy Ann doll named Annabelle. She told us you'll only see ghosts if you want to, and never to mess with Oujia boards.

I still don't believe it. We used to play with Ouija boards at every sleep over I ever had between about 11 and 14. Someone was always moving it.

posessed Raggedy Ann doll named Annabelle

That sounds pretty scary though.

Totally watch all those shows though. Chip Coffey is my favorite paranormal investigator. We're Facebook friends.

posessed Raggedy Ann doll named Annabelle

That sounds pretty scary though.

― (✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Monday, July 30, 2012 3:25 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fuck I listened to a podcast abt this case last year, it was awesome... can't remember which one...

http://efeyas.hubpages.com/hub/Annabelle-The-Possessed-Doll-A-Terrifying-Case

they used to give spooky talks at my high school during halloween. and this was after the demon murder case that they were involved in. you'd think they'd want to steer clear of my town. they are good at being spooky though! and they set the bar with amityville.

The haunted doll is amazing

Seamingly, from no where, a liquidy red substance had appeared on the doll.

Nice uninentional punwork in the awful grammar there.

they set the bar with amityville

We used to drive by the horror house all the time when I was in HS until Amy Fisher shot Mary-Jo Buttafuco and then we'd drive by her and Joey's house instead.

Long Island is very exciting you see.

The creepiest haunted doll has to be Robert.

Also the guy who wrote the book about Amityville ate in my parents restaurant shortly after it was published and showed my mom a necklace he'd had made which was a silver model of the book. I think he died weirdly a couple years thereafter.

WHO IS ROBERT?

Never read Sibyl or most of the other books mentioned in this thread, but I did read The Minds of Billy Milligan when I was in maybe junior high. Pretty fucked up stuff, and obviously I was in no position at that age to judge whether it was all true, all bullshit, or some mixture of the two.

ENBB, Robert the Doll

Ahhhhhh!

Going to Key West for my birthday later this year. Totally gonna go see Robert.

I think I saw this movie. BUt I keep thinking of another one: where a girl "inherits" (sorry migraine) the spirit of a girl who just died. A silly horror movie

Don't take Robert's picture without getting permission!

Oh, don't worry, I just read that part. I'll be sure to ask first. Also, I very nearly booked a room at what is now a guesthouse but used to be his old owner the artist's house!

Guys

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/criminal_mind/psychology/multiples/3-3-Sybil-Shirley-K-Mason.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/26347737/Tears+for+Fears+tff73246.png

creeeeeeepy

Also the guy who wrote the book about Amityville ate my parents

^ misread as this, thought thread was about to take a horrifying turn

okay, am I missing something or is there a link on that site to the story behind the doll?

I have read almost all of these books (although I conflated a lot of Sybil and When Rabbit Howls (which one has the, um, button hook involvement?)) but somehow forgot about Debbie Nathan's book despite being super psyched to read it before it came out.

Rectifying that ASAP.

Robert? There was no story - I was confused too. I just googled him and found a wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Doll

x-post

Although I never read the book, I totally remember Truddi Chase, seeing her on Oprah and the Shelly Long movie. I was too afraid to watch it!

Thanks ENBB! That's what I was looking for.

okay wtf! tears for fears facial resemblance/album title reference is wigging my shit OUT.

I know, right??!?!?

Button hook is Sybil.

Sybil was the "I can't eat chocolate ice cream" book, too, right? God the effed up details that I remember from these books.

I don't remember anything about chocolate ice cream.
If you're thinking cold water bladder enemas while mom plays thundering classical piano, you're thinking Sybil.

I followed the link from the Wikipedia page on Robert the Doll to its homepage, where they have an animated gif of him wiggling his head, and now I am afraid.

Did Sybil ever meet up with Eve from the Five (or was it three?) Faces of Eve?

My first awareness of these things came from a fascinating UK TV documentary about this Hillside Strangler guy in Los Angeles, who when caught started manifesting multiple personality stuff. At one point psychiatrists were going to class him as guilty but insane, but eventually they decided he was faking it, basically using Sybil as his Multiple-Personalities-For-Dummies. The idea of multiple personalities still fascinates me, for all that I don't believe in them.

Go Ask Alice is also total fraud.

Book cover used to freak me out when I was a kid.

The ice cream thing (it might not have been chocolate) was that a therapist gave whomever it was a dish of ice cream, and the texture and shape of the scoops of ice cream reminded the poor MPD sufferer of testicles and she flipped out.

Go Ask Alice is also total fraud.

Is that true? The book/movie had a big effect on me in middle school--I've even shown the film to my own middle-school students.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk_-u0wejk8

Yes, it is true! That book is a fraud!

Just read the Wikipedia page. Another illusion shattered.

Could I request that there be no mention of the Easter Bunny on this thread?

This has been a rough day for you, I understand.

Go Ask Alice movie is hilarious. Shatner! Matlock! special one-scene guest appearance by Mackenzie Phillips!

I like the part where she wakes up in a park unaware of how she got there, even though she's apparently been around for weeks

Sparks' second "diary" project, Jay's Journal, gave rise to a controversy that cast further doubt on Go Ask Alice's veracity. Jay's Journal was allegedly the diary of a boy who committed suicide after becoming involved with the occult. Again, Sparks claimed to have based it on the diary a patient. However, the family of the boy in question, Alden Barrett, disowned the book. They claimed that Sparks had used only a handful of the actual diary entries, and had invented the great majority of the book, including the entire occult angle.[2] This led many to speculate that "Alice's" diary—if indeed it existed—had received similar treatment. No one claiming to have known the real "Alice" has ever come forward.

obviously an upstanding member of the medical community

Michelle Remembers is now on its way to me.

To be 100% clear - I really really really do not want to make light of actual child abuse itt -- it's real and really really horrible and, logically, causes people to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to shield themselves from memories of it. Really I just was shocked at the cultural phenomenon of Sybil, LLC, the women involved, and the ripple effect Dr Wilbur's work had on the mental health field, the rise and fall of MPD as a popular diagnosis and the totally bizarre Satanic ritual abuse sex cult stuff that followed.

I also loved Go Ask Alice as a kid. I don't know which I loved more -- Go Ask Alice, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, or Alice (the tv show). They're all v entertaining, all of the Alices.

Ha, we watched some of Go Ask Alice in Grade 8! All I remember taking away from it was hippie girls and Jefferson Airplane. I think it actually made drugs seem more exciting.

Maybe I should watch it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMM3X3hqj3w

Never knew about these other books btw, though I do remember the Satanism panic from childhood. I'm pretty stoked to check some of this out.

Scared me initially...soon got over it. The music really made an impression, though I later learned it was nothing but covers by hacky in-house musicians: "White Rabbit," "Dear Mr. Fantasy," "It Ain't Easy."

What was the overlap between the SRA panic, D&D panic, and heavy metal panic? (A Venn diagram might help.)

(Also WTF with people panicking in the 80s?)
xpost

The music really made an impression, though I later learned it was nothing but covers by hacky in-house musicians

OTM

I think it overlapped a lot. D&D was Satanic, heavy metal was Satanic (backward masking!), Satanic ritual abuse was Satanic. Like, they hook you in with D&D, then get you into metal, and next thing you know your standing in a circle in the woods chanting over a pentagram.

I was too scared to ever read Go Ask Alice and by the time I was scared I was too old to care.

When I was 18 I got sort of into Wicca (shut up I was 18) and bought a pentagram ring and my mom basically had a shitfit and made me stop wearing it because it she thought it was evil.

standing in a circle in the woods chanting over a pentagram....naked, possibly smeared with sacrificial animal blood if you're really far gone

The woman who probably wrote Go Ask Alice, Jay's Journal, It Happened to Nancy, and other "true" diaries of troubled teens, Beatrice Sparks, died just a couple months ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Sparks

She was a "Morman youth counselor."

Thank Whomever I got through my childhood before all these shitwaves passed through my woodland abode, which had been troubled only by (insert 50s/60s bummer headlines here). But the Manson case was the fountainhead. That got to everybody, even amid everyday disaster--"Awright, I've had enough/What else can you show me." Manson and those girls and guys seemed at first like the usual suspects in a way, til the evidence registered, and then lil Hobbit-gone-bad Charlie (I didn't even like the good ones) showed up in court with a shaved face and head (NOBODY outside of a z-movie had the latter), and those eyes and eyebrows, and it was like who and what is this guy Then the girls followed suit. Taking acid and finding youself thinking about that case was not good. Can imagine how Katy Perry's Dad did that and went from Timothy Leary to Jeeeeesus.

"When I was 18 I sort of got into Wicca"

inspiration?

ha Though the timing would have been right for that I don't think I even saw that movie until years later. It was just big then and got a lot of press. I never practiced or anything. Mostly I just read a lot and made up a silly name for myself. Please note, this phase did not last very long.

Stevie Nicks was supposedly way into Wicca or White Magic, if any diff

here's some sad sad heartbreaking shit i grew up with

http://daretodream-maggie.blogspot.com/2012/05/jackson-and-akki-judged-by-looks.html

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/09/dale-akiki-reflects-historic-molestation-trial/

THE LSD KING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gu131f9Y30

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Kasso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC0Cbc7i0dQ

they have this shit for that dude in colorado yet is what i'm wondering

x-post - Was too young at the time to actually remember that but I have heard of it because that's the county I grew up in. Acid King was maybe WSoS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHl83M4bmZE

oh you'll like this then i think

lol I just finished watching that one

even the chair of psychology at miskatonic university doesn't believe it

wingate peaslee: "i don't believe it"

la lechera: you might be interested in siri hustvedt's the shaking woman or a history of my nerves, which is only tangentially related to what's being discussed here but still a good read (although it's missing the lurid aspect).

there is an interview with her here: http://bigthink.com/ideas/19610

speaking of 80's panic, you can watch Mazes & Monsters on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkb5v62U7EI

lol really is the best scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfxXug5ZMdk

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51U-hXS6kKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.steamshovelpress.com/images/thanksbookcover_large.jpg

It had been eight years since I had been hunted and brutalized by Cheney in Wyoming, and apparently he wanted to see how my programming had progressed before agreeing to use me in Reagan’s "Hands-On Mind-Control Demonstrations". He grabbed me roughly by the hair and slung me onto a black leather chair, tipping my head backwards over the high studded arm.

"Audition here," he snarled. Since I last saw him, I had undergone Wizard Of Oz Tin Man programming, which he accessed to accommodate his large, thick penis. He placed his hands on my jaw while he said, "Soon we’ll have you purring like a wet l oiled machine. All of your moving parts are pivotal and gliding with ease. Melt into my hands. I’ll hold your jaw to keep it from slipping while you slip through a window in lime." He then jerked my jaw out of joint, and roughly gratified himself in my throat.1

As he lit his cigarette, I slowly regained focus enough to realize I was in pain. The back of my head hurt from being thrust into the studs on the chair, and I slowly lifted my head. My owner, Senator Byrd, had just walked in and realized Cheney had already completed the "audition". Referring to compartmentalizing my memory via stun gun high voltage, Byrd asked, "Did you fry her?"

Cheney, ’cocksure’ of himself as always, answered. "She can’t have fucked all of Washington" (indicating that no one would believe me anyway, even if I did reach this point and talk). Cheney put out his cigarette and said as he went out the door, "She’ll work. Tell Ronnie she’ll work."

When Byrd saw that my lips were bleeding, he called Cheney a "son of a bitch" under his breath, as this damage would prevent my fulfilling other assignments that were planned for me. Byrd touched his finger to my swollen lips and tasted the blood (and Cheney) several times. Then he slapped me hard across the face, which re-aligned my jaw but caused more blood to flow down my chin. He took a box of tissues from the desk and threw it at me, the corner hitting me in the forehead. "Wipe yourself up. You’re just getting started. I’ll see to it you get what you’ve got coming to you."

Fortunately for me, Byrd had cause to return to the formal cocktail party and did not have time to brutalize me further. My face was battered, mouth torn, and my throat felt torn and stretched. I had difficulty swallowing for some time, and could not speak. I certainly was in no condition to return to the cocktail party, and was escorted out by agents/guards.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/transforusa/transformation.htm

so much to explore! i'm overwhelmed. with gratitude.

http://www.fashion-writings.com/img/sj/things-that-never-cross-a-guys-mind/dick-cheney.jpg

dying to know about kissinger's mind control slave

http://shatteringdenial.com/books/taylor_thanks_for_the_memories.pdf

thank you

This guy is central to the chapter on cults in 1973 Nervous Breakdown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Patrick

http://www.fdsrc.org/Gems-Jewels_Honorees/Ted_Patrick_files/ted-patrick.jpg

oops, i forgot to include the footnote from the cheney story:
1 My jaw is permanently damaged From Cheney. I have chronic TMJ.

also, in the same book reagan's favorite music is that of Air Supply, and he somehow uses their songs to program the author's various compartmentalized personalities

http://static.everdot.org/ebooks/english/Cathy_OBrien__Mark_Philips_-_Trance_Formation_of_America_MKULTRA_-_1995.pdf

http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/c/c6/Henry_Kissinger%27s_head.png

wtf@ that wiki article. it sounds batshit

I went down the cathy o'brien mk-ultra psychic sex assassins rabbit hole in the good old days of the weird web - dimly remember getting disturbed by late-night reading of the greenbaum brainwashing/mpd stuff - this is the big thing about it, looks like overlong craziness now, I'll see if I can't find a summary.

Wow, Ted Patrick, huh. What a guy!

Started reading Sybil Exposed last night. I'm not too far into it, but I will say that Sybil was most certainly theologically abused. Yikes.

You are going to enjoy the shit out of this book.

I had no idea that Seventh Day Adventists invented soy milk and veggie burgers. I mean, if I stopped reading it right now I would still feel like I got my money's worth right there.

And graham crackers!

Sybil's mom made and sold a tomato-flavored meat substitute iirc. I forgot to mention that yesterday.

Patrick reminds me a bit of the guy who started America's Most Wanted--moving from a personal event to a public crusade--although Patrick's resume seems a lot dicier.

Didn't know till reading 1973 Nervous Breakdown that Lyndon LaRouche was part of the cult hysteria with "Operation Mop-Up": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche.

there's a whole other side to this that we haven't discussed -- the culture of diagnosed multiples who "choose not to reintegrate"

here is an essay from one of them http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/nambiet/integration.html

The entire idea that a household must "integrate" in this sense is a product of social control through rigid definition, something I hope American society is moving away from.
It also doesn't work as easily as we are led to believe. Dr. Lucinda Harman, who worked with numerous multiples -- officially diagnosed with MPD -- at Dr. Cornelia Wilbur's Open Hospital for Multiple Personality, often observed people in households arranging to -pretend- to be integrated to keep the doctors happy. She reports the following:
"Frequent stories about providing therapists and society with what they wanted to see, abound. I have never met an integrated multiple. However, some tried to convince themselves that they were -- the whole time that they were switching."
So obviously, it isn't as easy as it's been made out to be. You may wish to take this into consideration if you are thinking about trying to integrate.

btw for those who fuck with Nook, Debbie Nathan's Satan's Silence is only $3.50 on there...

There is also the Tumblr (at least this is where I've seen it) phenomenon of "headmates," and specifically additional personalities that take on the traits of a fictional character - http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/headmates.

I'm sure there are better dedicated blogs but that is at least a sampling.

I think the headmates that are fictional characters are called "fictives."

http://livingplural.tumblr.com/
http://16-spring-snakes-in-a-nut-can.tumblr.com/list
http://groupofloops.tumblr.com/
http://always-fluctuating.tumblr.com/about

Satan's Silence is $3 on Kindle! I bought it.

Oh jesus. This whole headmate/plural/otherkin/transethnic/FFhouse stuff is completely and utterly nuts.

Thanks, Dr. Wilbur!

This whole headmate/plural/otherkin/transethnic/FFhouse stuff is completely and utterly nuts.

I can believe how many of these people are on tumblr, it's bananas.

http://candacevan.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/drcorneliawilbur.jpg?w=220&h=237
No prob.
--Dr Wilbur

wait, what?

Wait, where did you get Satan's Silence for Kindle? Amazon says it's not even available on Kindle.

I'm fascinated by the Tumblr Headmates. I feel a legitimate internal conflict between my general tendency toward taking people at their word when they are talking about their own mental health and personal identities, and thinking it's mostly just a bunch of kids using it as a coping strategy for being bullied at school. Like, "Nobody will eat lunch with me... it is because I AM A WOLF!!! HOOOOOWWWLLLLLL!!!!!"

And graham crackers!

created to suppress the sexual urges of young girls iirc

And boys. All the sexual urges. But while jerking it was bad news for boys, it was a one way ticket to dying on the streets as a filthy whore and going straight to hell for girls.

i searched for debbie nathan on my kindle

Nobody will eat lunch with me... it is because I AM A WOLF!

dying

i revived a thread to talk about the tumblr headmates thing but no one was biting

My name is Paul Allen, and I am an otherkin. I am 22 years old, and I live in Canada. I recently discovered what an otherkin was, and I was so thankful to find people like me on Tumblr, it has helped me realize exactly what it is about me that made me feel so different from other people.

I have a few headmates, but the one that I am identifies as a spatula. This is going to be a serious blog about me going through life as a someone who identifies as a spatula. I hope I can make a few friends along the way as well :D

wow

a spatula

i don't really know what to say

thanks tumblr

that guy is so earnest about the fact he's not trolling i suspect he is trolling. i don't know. do i want to start a 'crazy people on tumblr' thread

i dunno. i feel kinda bad about the idea but it's your decision to make, and you may make it differently if you were a spatula.

yeah i should probably think about it, i feel like there are genuinely interesting things about it beyond 'look at this train wreck', i don't really know how to foster that discussion though

it's just another side to the story, that's the only reason i brought it up at all. generally i don't think it's agl to point and laugh at people.

I also loved Go Ask Alice as a kid. I don't know which I loved more -- Go Ask Alice, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, or Alice (the tv show). They're all v entertaining, all of the Alices.

― nicest bitch of poster (La Lechera), Monday, 30 July 2012 23:27 (Yesterday) Permalink

you forgot alice, sweet alice

oh yeah! i knew there was another one!

and you may make it differently if you were a spatula.

"one day I just... flipped out"

xp Yeah, exactly. Because as soon as I start thinking about the genuinely interesting aspect of it, somebody self-identifies as a spatula.

That's the other problem, is that half the time I think people are just trolling and I honestly can't tell the difference sometimes.

I think maybe one interesting distinction between the headmates crew and Sybil & Friends is that the headmates generally deny an abusive past and claim that their DID or MPD is just a natural state of being, not one caused by any trauma.

If spatula dude is not trolling I will eat my hat. That I identify as a core headmate. I am hatkin.

if you point at the hat, and if it is very spiritual, i will know you are who you say you are

XD

Or actually:

c|:D

I just get such a weird feeling from this new age of 12 year olds being able to proclaim themselves to be foxes or otherkins or vampires or other radical identity positions and be backed up on it by an online framework of defenders that does not only consist of other kids... I mean, when I was a kid, you could play RPGs as much as possible or read SFF novels all the time or fill notebooks with characters and worlds and lyrics etc but there was NO OPTION WHATSOEVER of choosing to live as a fantasy creature, and I can't help but feel like that limitation was a good thing... this shit really scares me sometimes...

Maybe you should start a campaign to deprogram otherkin.

and you may make it differently if you were a spatula.

"one day I just... flipped out"

― Dunn O)))))))) (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:08 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw, I looked for the 'like' button on this post.

got a cool ashtar command book. that is one crazy alien-channeling cult. love the crude drawings of various aliens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtar_%28extraterrestrial_being%29#Ashtar_Command

you need to give them your email address to get into the ashtar website:

http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/

If spatula dude is not trolling I will eat my hat. That I identify as a core headmate. I am hatkin.

― emil.y, Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:13 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

On the "headmates" tag, somebody posted a screen shot of another Tumblr with the intent of mocking it, and in the screenshot, a person who has a vampire otherkin headmate talked about how the headmate gets triggered when people talk about pooping because vampires don't eat and so don't have buttholes, and in the screen shot, somebody responded to that comment very seriously, apologizing for the ablism that the buttholeless vampire headmate has to endure. I would think that was trolling because come on but then somebody else was mocking it so I just don't know.

i think that's part of the rabbit hole experience of the whole thing, that there's this weird point at which you can't tell who's trolling and who's for real ('real')

vs: who has genuine mpd and who has just convinced themselves they have

I think this is why I find it so horrible. These people are using the language that oppressed peoples have developed to express or protect themselves, and they roll around in their little fantasy worlds being special little snowflakes, a) ruining words for people, and b) actually damaging other people who get sucked in.

ruining words for people

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/transfat

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/transable would be a better example. though now i check the first page of the first one is entirely people making fun and the first page of the second is about fifty-fifty people making fun and people genuinely angry and confused.

vs: who has genuine mpd and who has just convinced themselves they have

― thomp, Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:46 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

1/999,999

thx for all the mind control links, I like how they all start with a warning not to read them unless you have been trained to resist mind control techniques

I think this is why I find it so horrible. These people are using the language that oppressed peoples have developed to express or protect themselves, and they roll around in their little fantasy worlds being special little snowflakes, a) ruining words for people, and b) actually damaging other people who get sucked in.

I agree. The transethnic people are particularly gross to me -- something about 14 yr old white kids protesting that they identify as Japanese or African American rubs me the wrong way.

I checked Satan's Silence out from the library. Thanks, thread!

I wonder if there are special seminars to teach therapists how to deal with these sorts of kids, whose parents (I would imagine) view the behavior (if they know about it) as troublesome. I should ask my therapist friends if this is a big thing in the field o que.

now I'm having a repressed memory surface... a memory of a TV movie from the late 70s/early 80s about a guy w/ MPD. can't remember who played the lead, but he was fairly well-known at the time. bill bixby? argh help me ilx I am suffering

the only Bill Bixby TV movie I can remember is the one where he plays a dead dude waiting around in a bathhouse aka purgatory

while directing "Blossom."

I found it! the five of me, starring david birney and dee wallace. 3 guesses who mr birney married irl...

http://mytvlog.blogspot.com/2012/05/five-of-me-1981-tvm.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/12/arts/tv-five-of-me-multiple-personalities.html

neat factoid

"THE FIVE OF ME," tonight's movie on CBS-TV at 9 o'clock, is the story of a multiple personality whose true case history, we are informed at the outset, spanned 37 years. The production has several substantial ingredients - imaginative direction by Paul Wendkos; a carefully constructed script by Lawrence B. Marcus, who wrote the screenplay of the "The Stunt Man," and, especially, a strong performance by David Birney in the lead role.

Dee Wallace!

omg somebody on ebay is selling promo photos from the five of me, this is some mighty arcane memorabilia

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/the_five_of_me.jpg

From the review:

Multiple-personality cases are not uncommon. ''Sybil'' and ''The Three Faces of Eve'' are mentioned here in passing. And there is no reason to doubt the details of Mr. Hawksworth's story. But the fact that his problem existed for years without proper diagnosis defies belief. His record is crammed with violent incidents, from causing a car crash that killed the man he saved in Korea to viciously attacking his pregnant wife - who was, incidentally, his dead friend's fiancee - to the homicide trial that finally results in his getting proper help.

Uh...sounds like a sociopath who is using mpd to excuse his violent behavior.

Again, Billy Milligan.

all these MPD roles just make me think...

ACTING!

1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars
The five of me December 7, 2008
By Eileen Delk
Format:VHS Tape
This movie is so great it's one the no it's the first drama movie that I saw that I have never forgotten. I would love to have it in my collections

David Birney is a wonderful actor and this is my favorite movie from him of all times. please can you find a copy so I can enjoy it any time my son would like to see this for I have spoke on this movie alot of times.

please contact me by email as soon as possiable thank you.
Comment |
Was this review helpful to you?

MPD reviews of movies would be pretty funny.

"I hated it! ... but *I* loved it!"

I cannot believe you cynics are questioning the veracity of a TV movie from 1981 starring mr meredith baxter birney

just baxter now

idk this may be a little left field of the current discussion, but it's got some similar strains to MPD (as deliberately controlled through mind-control) / SRA / recovered memory. here's a link to a .pdf of memoir written by a woman who believed the CIA turned her into a mind controlled sex slave under MK ULTRA / Project Monarch.

http://shatteringdenial.com/books/taylor_thanks_for_the_memories.pdf

a quick glance at the table of contents will give you an idea of where it goes from there, but that's just the start

c'mon elmo that was already posted please keep up

the burning question right now is where can I buy a bootleg copy of the five of me for $6.20 oh wait

http://www.twistedanger.net/movies/comedy-humour_c29/dvd-five-of-me-the-paul-wendkos-1981_p1999/

have we discussed the dolphin sex, then? i haven't had a chance to read everything itt!

http://www.dolphins.spirita.net/images/dolphin2.gif

This article was really interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/09/nyregion/multiple-personality-cases-perplex-legal-system.html?ref=multiplepersonalities

I was trying to find more information on Hawksworth but there doesn't look like there is anything available outside of the book, which makes me think it's either a pseudonym or completely made up.

i revived a thread to talk about the tumblr headmates thing but no one was biting

― thomp, Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:55 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbh I was very interested in your thread but then you got yelled at and I was afraid it was going to be some huge clusterfuck so backed away

holy cow I just read the link about "transablism" and just learned about "transethnic" and for all that I'm willing to give a pass to a kid who thinks he's got a raccoon, the Third Doctor, and River Tam living in his head, if somebody told me they identified as "transabled" or "transethnic" I might very well respond with violence.

On the "headmates" tag, somebody posted a screen shot of another Tumblr with the intent of mocking it, and in the screenshot, a person who has a vampire otherkin headmate talked about how the headmate gets triggered when people talk about pooping because vampires don't eat and so don't have buttholes, and in the screen shot, somebody responded to that comment very seriously, apologizing for the ablism that the buttholeless vampire headmate has to endure. I would think that was trolling because come on but then somebody else was mocking it so I just don't know.

― ms. cookie (carl agatha), Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

holy shit

OMG is transfat where somebody is not fat but, like identifies as fat? Get the fuuuuuck out of my face with that shit.

http://khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.tumblr.com/post/27668397685/i-cant-even-i-cant-what-is-this-god

Here it is!

(if this is getting inappropriately far afield from the topic, I will stop! As soon as I read more of Sybil Exposed I will be back on topic.)

X-post

Ha can I be transthin then

I'm a transbillionare give me a fucking private jet if you respect my right to self-identify you 99% fuckers.

I'm a transdoctor I have no medical training but I know I'm a doctor so let me operate on your brain.

I guess walk-ins are another kind of DID-ish thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk-in
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31aFleSQA9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I guess for these folks you can kick out a headmate and the headmate will go live in somebody else's head. Probably as good an argument as any to avoid them.

I've seen the movie but not read the book. Didn't they just discover she made it all up or it was implanted or something? The whole MPD/SRA phenomenon is completely fascinating to me.

― (✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Monday, July 30, 2012 1:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

ENBB (and others), Ian Hacking's Rewriting the Soul is an excellent book on the social and historical development of MPD constructs, treatment and diagnosis, as well as an examination of its philosophical status, and contains a close historical reading of the period where a lot of the building blocks for current MPD understanding were put in place. Sybil features fairly heavily. (He also wrote an excellent book on transient mental states called Mad Travellers about wandering fugue states among Europeans in the 19th century, used to analyse the meaning and notions of syndromes like autism. As recommended by Plasmon in this thread.

Thank you, Fizzles.

(I just wanted to use the name "Fizzles" in a sentence)

oh fantastic, that sounds exactly like what i need. i will get around to reading it in six months and start my no-pointing-and-laughing thread on the subject, i think

those who want to keep tabs on the Satanic/CIA/Illuminati/Monarch mind-control conspiracy should check out vigilentcitizen.com.
and yes, the joker from Aurora is top headline. so obv a patsy.

this is another good read - http://www.emhdf.com/Monarch-mind-control.pdf

vigilantcitizen.com (srry typo)

IF THERE IS ANY CHANCE you the reader have had
mind-control done to you, you must consider the following book to
be DANGEROUS. If you are consulting a therapist for DID (also
known as MPD), it is recommended that you consult your therapist
before reading this book. The complications that could result for
those under mind control learning the truth--could be fatal. The
co-authors take no responsibility for those who read or misuse this
information.

too long for a board descrip I guess

is having socks considered a form of MPD

Anderson Cooper is talking to a bunch of teen exorcists right now. The madness and the sorrow still envelops us.

oh yeah, they are lol bob larson's daughters or something??

bob larson is a national treasure

There was a total of 21 people in lil Wayne’s video ( counting the skeletons ). 12 skeletons in the chairs of the video. 12 people that died in reality at the movie. 21 people total got shot in reality. 21 can be broke down to 2+1=3 and 12 can be broke down to 1+2=3 . 33 is a powerful number. 33 is the Masonic. illuminati anyone. Also, This is the yr of the Queens jubilee. The year of twins/double. This is why Whitney Houston had to die. She was the Queen of Pop. Fast forward to today, the killer called himself joker. A joker in the batman movie and a joker in reality. Doubles again. I guess They need that energy. It was a ritual murder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzOFTYIHHPc

I don't know, maybe the Anderson Cooper's a repeat.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82343481/

http://www.boblarson.org/assets/images/Bob_Larson_demontest.com_exorcism_exorcist_dwjd.jpg

Those who feel called by God to cast out evil spirits have had nowhere to turn for training – UNTIL NOW! Rev. Bob Larson has a vision to restore prayers of exorcism to Christianity and has founded the International School of Exorcism. You can learn exorcism right at home on your computer. By completing the curriculum you can receive:

Apprenticeship Degree of Exorcism
Master’s Degree of Exorcism
Advanced Degree of Exorcism
Some of the course studies are:

Basic Curse Breaking
The Weapons of Spiritual Warfare
The Mental & Emotional Aspects of Deliverance
The Procedure and Principles of Casting out Demons
Applications are now being received for the Apprenticeship Program, but space is limited. For information contact the Bob Larson International School of Exorcism.

Bob Larson International School of Exorcism
P. O. Box 36-A
Denver, Colorado 80236
exorcismsch✧✧✧@boblar✧✧✧.o✧✧
303-980-1511

he has a blog post up about today's re-broadcast of the anderson cooper appearance

He complained that it cost $9.95 to go to DemonTest.com, our web site, and take the test that shows the likelihood of demonic possession. When I explained that we have internet management costs to build and maintain the site, Cooper admitted that he scored high on the test! That’s no surprise. Cooper’s brother committed suicide right in front of him by jumping to his death from a tall building.

I just requested Sybil from the library. I'm excited.

Yes he's in DENVER!! I wonder if he can give me exorcism lessons!

lol @ GOT DEMON?

linguistically speaking, i love how 'demon' can be used as a general catch-all for what's plaguing you
everyone's got demons
they're real!

demon in spatula form

Whoa! Just been floored that Michelle Remembers took place in Victoria, BC of all places! I vacationed there when I was six, so maybe my fond childhood memories colors it a bit, but there simply cannot be a less satanic cult environment.

Now I wanna read it to see if there were any orgies/blood rituals in Butchart Gardens, the Empress Hotel and Thunderbird Park.

Holy shit, this sounds insane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

A 1995 book found further inconsistencies in Smith’s allegations; the authors found no newspaper record of the car crash that the book describes in the time frame described despite the fact that the local newspaper reported on all vehicle accidents at the time. Former neighbors, teachers and friends were interviewed and yearbooks from Smith’s elementary school were reviewed and found no indication of Smith being absent from school or missing for lengthy periods of time, including the alleged 81-day non-stop ceremony. Ultimately the book's authors were unable to find anyone who knew Smith in the 1950s who could corroborate any of the details in her allegations.[12]
A 2002 article by Kerr Cuhulain[17] not only explored the inconsistencies in Smith’s allegations, but also their unlikeliness. Among other things, Cuhulain noted that it seemed unlikely that a sophisticated cult that had secretly existed for generations could be outwitted by a five-year-old; that the cult could hold rituals in the Ross Bay Cemetery unnoticed given that Smith claimed she was screaming and given that the Ross Bay Cemetery is surrounded on three sides by residential neighborhoods; that an 81-day non-stop ceremony involving hundreds of participants and a massive round room could have gone on in Victoria unnoticed; and that none of Smith’s tormentors (other than her mother) have ever been identified, especially given that some of them had cut off one of their middle fingers at the Black Mass. Like other authors,[6][9][12] Cuhulain also noted that many of Smith's recovered memories appear to have reflected elements in popular culture at the time (e.g.: the movie The Exorcist) and Pazder's own religious beliefs and experiences from when he was living and working in Africa in the early 1960s. Finally, Cuhulain hypothesized that Smith's motivation for making the allegations may have come from her desire to spend time with Pazder; though both were initially married to other people, they divorced their spouses and re-married each other after the publication of the book.[17]

This thread has played a small part in my already-increasing scepticism towards modern psychiatry.

check out what came in the mail yesterday!!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7698043578_d3386176b9_z.jpg

Cover cutout opens to reveal scared female child (w/ doll) surrounded by candles, three ghosts, and SATAN looming on top.

"Who won the battle of good and evil in the mind and body of an innocent child?"

Why is the writing backwards? Does Satan have a hand in this?

clearly

"Who won the battle of good and evil in the mind and body of an innocent child?"

always bet on evil

Can I borrow it when you're done???

PS Shit is getting REAL in Sybil Exposed. Holy cow! I do not feel very kindly towards old Connie Wilbur!

http://pages.simonandschuster.com/sybilexposed/photos

Serpatilin!

This thread has played a small part in my already-increasing scepticism towards modern psychiatry.

There are so many depressing stories related to psychiatry in Sybil Exposed (especially the one about the teenage girls that were stripped and filmed in the psych ward by doctors) that it made me even more mistrustful of psychiatrists than I was going in.

Oh man, that Brice Taylor image upthread reminds me that I've seen a video interview segment with her. Satanic ritual abuse! Celebrities and politicians!

The 80s were so extremely fucked and anyone who grew up during that time probably still has some weird cultural mental baggage. I know I do. Two boys actually were abducted/disappeared in '82/'84 -- completely odd, but both were paperboys so that was seen as some sort of link that the cases were related. It led to some parents being extremely cautious, and fed a lot of ritual abuse and abduction stories.

Actually were abducted in my area, I mean.,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations

Not to detract from the main story of MPD, here, but allegations of weird child abuse rings were definitely a thing, and as aero mentioned, often used as explanations in the case of abuse much closer to home.

have we gone over the McMartin case yet

longest and most expensive criminal trial in history

well, up until 1990 anyway

oh fuck, on the SRA tip, i highly endorse this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Satan-Tragic-Recovered-Memory/dp/0679755829

notable because the recovered memories in this case come from the alleged perpetrator, and upstanding christian family man & police officer... wild stuff

I am going to this bizarre used bookstore tonight. In what section would these types of books be found? Psychology? Biography?

christian studies

the repressed memories of satanic pedophilia section

i'd ask the owner!

Can I borrow it when you're done???
Of course!

Eeeeee thank you, I am very excited!

Occult for the satanic-related ones, psychology or biography for a book like Sybil.

La Lechera why u so occult! Always with the hidden visage in your pix!

i have to protect my selves from satan

he is real iirc

um way late but LL I looooooooove you for this thread

I practically lived in the library throughout high school, and read ALL that crazy shit;...Sybil - check! Go Ask Alice - check! Amityville Horror - check!
Dark Side of the Moonies anybody?

I am SO going to read Sybil Exposed! and Michelle Remembers! And Satans Silence! And The Shoemaker! eeee is it sad that I'm so excited about this sad creepy trashy stuff?

I was really REALLY hoping that the internet would provide a clip of Connie Wilbur and Flora Schreiber on the Dick Cavett show, but no such luck.

I just got to the Boomy Bum Boo part, too. Boomy Bum Barf, more like it.

I have a separate bookshelf for hardcover occult/paranormal stuff which ppl ITT would probably dig. fave book on it right now is called "Demons, Demons, Demons"

I know she was mentioned way upthread but the Cornerstone article about Laurel Rose Wilson faking Satanic Underground is a very good read in this genre. And she had a second career as a fake Holocaust survivor whose evidence in part came from befriending ANOTHER fake Holocaust survivor, "Binjamin Wilkomirski". I got sucked down some fake HOlocaust survivor internet rabbit hole one day, that shit is just weird. iirc Jerzy Kosinski came up thought I forget the context?

oh man one of my favorite thrift store VHS finds is on youtube, EXPOSING THE SATANIC WEB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1fTKw6BNw
Dave Roever spoke in Cruces on this topic when I lived there but I didn't get to catch it – he's still going with this stuff!

"This is a very explicit documentary exposing the truly demonic and dangerous realities of satanism. Absolutely, not for children or even young teens."

Watching Sybil now. I got the book too but I'm not sure I have the patience to read 400 pages of bullshit just to know that it's bullshit.

Some cool strings.

I seriously have completely changed my tune on the Sybil movie -- it used to scare the crap out of me, but now that I know the backstory, as I said before, I am ready to defend it as an unheralded hag horror classic. It's the best kind of fiction -- sold as nonfiction, but is fiction, and eventually is appreciated as a completely made up horror story within a greater horror story that IS real. Complicated "nonfiction" fiction with a backstory! What more could a person ask for.

Sally Field is kind of great!

She is! And Joanne Woodward played Eve in The Three Faces of Eve, which is just extra super rich.
http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/52/77152-004-AB40389D.jpg

also omg dave roever
i'm sure he has seen some of the bizarre

OMG, Vicky!

The Dave Roever documentary is great. I really want to know what those people are up to now, the fake satanist and the crazy police lady in particular.

Holy shit, this thread has been 100% A+ so far.

The Dungeons & Dragons Panic started with this book:

http://static.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/the-dugeon-master-by-william-dear_thumb.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dallas_Egbert_III has the details, it's a sad case - easier for everyone involved to believe that D&D caused him to break with reality than accept that he was probably gay.

This book is worth looking out for...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ERfaJkw5L._SL500_SS500_.jpg

background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Jones

Outstanding article on the current phenomena of TIs a.k.a. Target Individuals. Folks who believe that they are currently targets of government/new world order/etc. mind control operations: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399.html

Finished watching. It's a good horror movie, although I wish I hadn't already seen clips on Youtube. Gets a little lame at the very end. If you actually believed that all of this was true and completely believable, I can imagine that it would seem pretty heady.

Ha, I dimly remember writing a short story about someone with multiple personalities in a high school 'writer's craft' class. Iirc the personalities talked to each other, like Sybil's do, which the teacher objected to.

Frank Kogan writes:
I'm pleased to say that, searching Google images for "left right molar," I found Paul McCartney (or should I say "Paul McCartneys"?) on both page 2 and page 7, each bringing me to his Webpage:



http://www.thebeatlesneverexisted.com/ctrn/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=242&start=48


Rooting about further, I discover http://www.thebeatlesneverexisted.com/ctrn/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=12

“The purpose of this site is to research and discuss the anomalies, mysteries, conspiracies and coverups surrounding The Beatles, individually and collectively, and we need your ‘Help!’ in doing so. Our intention is not to attack or defame them, or to turn anyone against them or their music. It is the opinion of the Admin that they were apparently and most likely being used (exploited and abused) for adverse social engineering, by perpetrators unknown to and unseen by the public.

”When I set out on this journey, it was ONLY to research the information concerning whether Paul McCartney had died or been killed. I never in my wildest dreams, ever figured it would take me where it has, but it did this all on its own. One question after another kept cropping up without an answer, and I kept setting out to find an answer for it. One thing led to another, until I had to come to the decision that the explanation for it all lies beyond our known realm of explanation and technology. I eventually came upon the explanations for cloning and human simulacra, especially at a spirituality site named Star Gods which has a page explaining Paul McCartney as a product of Human Simulacra; a technology which has existed longer than we've known about. It was first used on humans in 1927. The ruling elite are about a hundred years ahead of what they tell us or allow us to access, in what they are able to do.

“There is high strangeness surrounding these individuals, and you will learn more about it as you take our version of the ‘Magical Mystery Tour,’ and we delve into the lives of the Fabricated Four, or maybe it's forty-four, or even more.

There is something very highly unusual about the young men who comprised ‘The Beatles.’ There were a great many more of them than we've ever known about, and the fact that there are certain distinguishing characteristics that are shared, which cannot be 'copied over' through plastic surgery, etc., now needs an alternative explanation. With that in mind, as to the views that will be presented here about who The Beatles may have been and what their purpose was, may I request that you withhold judgment until you read everything we have to say. Then, why make a judgment at all? You 'know' what you 'know', and you 'don't know' what you 'don't know'. What you believe - whether PID, PIA or PWR - has little to do with Truth. Don't take our word for it, do your own research, too, and be convinced of what you know. Things are only impossible until they are not.”

Other than that she’s batshit, she seems like a nice person, as in these forum rules:

http://www.thebeatlesneverexisted.com/ctrn/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=214

E.g., “All I ask is that everyone please refrain from attacking or flaming other posters. Please do not use obscene or rude language, or have a hateful or know-it-all attitude towards others. We will not all agree on these things, and I think it was always intended to be such. Perhaps we're even being made to see different things when we look at the same pictures and videos, or hear the same songs and music. Something has to account for all the disagreement in all the factions and sects of this topic.”

Paul McCan'tBe is my favourite conspiracy theory, in which I mean it's one of the more bonkers ones.

If you haven't seen the Rotten Apple series on youtube, especially if you're reasonably familiar with beatles lore, i suggest you check them out. They're terrific fun, partly because it's hard to work out if they're serious or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQHoelGzbM

I'm guessing not btw.

I got st0ned with my gf and watched the whole series for like 3 hours, and I'm sure by the end of it I BELIEVED!

i like to read this batshit beatles theory but i am afraid of seeing pictures of molars, anyone's, so i will take y'all's word for it

ok i started reading SATAN'S CHILDREN

and i learned about this illustrated children's book about satanic ritual abuse

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61tg5aklyzL._AA300_.jpg

and this joan baez song which is apparently about satan and mexican people?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC4BaYgGJ8Y

happy labor day

They need to do a better job syncing "It sounds like John is saying 'I buried Paul'" with Neil Aspinall's mouth in that video.

The Awful Library Books on that one was great: http://awfullibrarybooks.net/?p=2190

from the comments (which are actually a fun read):

That is horrible & fabulous!!

I am shocked that so many PLs own this with a SLJ review like this to go along with it:
“This is a very specialized title that, although in picture-book format, belongs in the child-abuse section of the adult collection. Five-year-old Allison’s behavior indicates to her concerned parents that something is wrong at her day care center. In unseen action, they discover that the center practices sexual, physical , and psychological abuse in the guise of religious ritual. Through dialogue, Allison and her parents reveal their feelings and the beginnings of the healing process to counselors and legal personnel. Some details of abuse are familiar from the lengthy McMartin trial, such as the “movie star room” in which naked children are photographed. The appendix lists 10 guidelines for parents on how to handle their own feelings during this family crisis. All of the people at the day care center are white and look like evil, angry young witches. This is not a book for general readers. The child’s ordeal is so horrifying and the display of its aftermath so subtle that readers need familiarity with the subject to avoid misinterpretation. It could be a useful title for social workers, law enforcement officials, psychologists, counselors, religious personnel, and the unfortunate parents and children who have endured such trauma. –Anne Osborn, Youth Training School, Dept. of Youth Authority, Ontario, CA
Copyright 1990 Reed Business Information, Inc. “

omg that book is so creepy!! what the fuck

also that blog is great wow

Paul McCan'tBe is my favourite conspiracy theory, in which I mean it's one of the more bonkers ones.

this is a nice little artifact
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whAZ8aYztgU

Guys I'm about 2/3rds of the way through 'Sybil' right now. I was messing on the Internet seeing if I could get a street view of the Dorset/mason home or where it once stood. Of course Dodge Center, MN hasn't been street viewed yet, so I randomly clicked a realtor.com link for DC, MN and spotted the thumbnail for this house which I immediate thought might be Sybil's house. These things seem to back me up - one block north of main street, an alley behind the property, two stories with a basement, a sunroom, 1 3/4 bathrooms ( you might remember the main floor bathroom being built during Sybil's 2 year blackout), 3 bedrooms and I think kitty corner to where the school once was and built in 1920.

Probably not but maybe?????

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/207-1st-St-Ne_Dodge-Center_MN_55927_M88106-85200?source=web

or maybe....
200 3rd Avenue Northwest, Dodge Center, Minnesota, United States

Circling back to the long discussion of otherkin and related entitled-identity craziness we had upthread, max brings it--

http://gawker.com/5940947/from-otherkin-to-transethnicity-your-field-guide-to-the-weird-world-of-tumblr-identity-politics

and DO NOT MISS the links in the first comment...

I might have to save the 'Final Fantasy 7 House' for tomorrow, this shit is amazing

wow, just started reading FF7 house thing, whoa

still i gotta say -- it's small-scale compared to sybil, llc!!

i like to read this batshit beatles theory but i am afraid of seeing pictures of molars, anyone's, so i will take y'all's word for it

― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:42 AM (1 week ago

i read many, many pages of that batshit beatles theory, and there was no mention of teeth that i noticed other than on the page dow linked above. his link doesn't work anymore anyway. here's the link to the forum's main page if you want to try again: http://fabfourdozen.proboards.com/?sid=c25c2d2d6d3e4b97863cb833dc7997b5.

thank you! loose beatle teeth: dnw

TAGS: BEATLES, PARASITIC TWIN, CYST, TEETH, HAIR, FETUS IN FETU

ugh sorry i just grossed myself out

i loled

xxxp there may have been some dental references in the "fake jimmy carter" section, so beware.

THIS BEATLES SITE IS AMAZING

ALSO I MAY BE A DEMI SEXUAL... PARTLY

i think everyone is?

Yeah, I think it is just the special snowflake aspect of it that makes them weird.

Ever wonder what cosmic thread connects Rasputin, Yoko Ono, Avril Lavigne, and (I think) Benjamin Orr?
The reptilian stare http://stargods.org/ReptilianStare.htm

also lol at the arrow

http://stargods.org/Stare/StareSpooky.jpg

Since I am making my way through Satan's Silence, I am relishing every (to use Debbie Nathan's word) PHANTASMAGORIC detail of the McMartin preschool saga and thought perhaps someone else might be hungry for the blood of the young.
So much ridiculousness! Poor Ray.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

Poor everyone, really.

From the "legacy" section of the wiki

The trial lasted seven years and cost $15 million,[35] the longest and most expensive criminal case in the history of the United States legal system, and ultimately resulted in no convictions.[3][1][22] The McMartin preschool was closed and the building was dismantled and several of the accused have died. In 2005 one of the children (now an adult) retracted the allegations of abuse.[17][36]

Never did anyone do anything to me, and I never saw them doing anything. I said a lot of things that didn't happen. I lied. ... Anytime I would give them an answer that they didn't like, they would ask again and encourage me to give them the answer they were looking for. ... I felt uncomfortable and a little ashamed that I was being dishonest. But at the same time, being the type of person I was, whatever my parents wanted me to do, I would do.[17]

In The Devil in The Nursery, Margaret Talbot for The New York Times summarized the case:

When you once believed something that now strikes you as absurd, even unhinged, it can be almost impossible to summon that feeling of credulity again. Maybe that is why it is easier for most of us to forget, rather than to try and explain, the Satanic-abuse scare that gripped this country in the early 80's — the myth that Devil-worshipers had set up shop in our day-care centers, where their clever adepts were raping and sodomizing children, practicing ritual sacrifice, shedding their clothes, drinking blood and eating feces, all unnoticed by parents, neighbors and the authorities.[3]

Mary A. Fischer in an article in Los Angeles magazine said the case was "simply invented," and transmogrified into a national cause celebre by the misplaced zeal of six people: Judy Johnson, mentally ill mother who died of alcoholism; Jane Hoag, the detective who investigated the complaints; Kee MacFarlane, the social worker who interviewed the children; Robert Philibosian, the district attorney who was in a losing battle for re-election; Wayne Satz, the television reporter who first reported the case, and Lael Rubin, the prosecutor.[1]

The trial lasted seven years and cost $15 million,[35] the longest and most expensive criminal case in the history of the United States legal system
true? if so, wow.

this isn't really related but i want to read all three of these books in this order:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Vision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Journalist_and_the_Murderer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wilderness_of_Error:_The_Trials_of_Jeffrey_MacDonald

I've read Fatal Vision but not the other two. And of course it was a TV movie starring Gary Cole, back when Serious Actor was Serious.

hey yeah I just read something the other week where they're looking at reopening that MacDonald case

Yep. McGinnis will testify. and Erroll Morris will be there; he's written a book about it too--this article is a good overview of the whole messy thing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/books/errol-morris-takes-on-macdonald-murder-case.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I lied. ... Anytime I would give them an answer that they didn't like, they would ask again and encourage me to give them the answer they were looking for.

They actually showed a clip of an interview in which this happened on the news back when the case was unfolding. I was incredulous that anyone would trust these kids' testimony with stuff like that going on and documented, but still the case progressed. I've never seen that (or any similar) clip again - I wonder if the prosecuters put a tight lid on those tapes afterwards. The hours of footage they got from these interviews would make for a great psychological study, and a "How not to..." example for future cases.

Also remember one of the kids at the time claiming he was "turned into a mouse." Can't help but think of the Monty Python bit about the newt, "I got better!"

I will probably read that Errol Morris book, but his statement in that NYT link that there's "no evidence" that MacDonald committed those murders flies in the face of nearly everything I've read about the case. It's always been my understanding that the blood, hair and wound evidence alone was overwhelming in implicating MacDonald to the exclusion of nearly anyone else in the universe.

"It was those damn hippies, I tells ya!"

His story is so thoroughly unbelievable. Even if he did not do it, his explanation of how it happened has never made any sense.

A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs" always did seem a tad far-fetched--although, see what I wrote upthread about the Manson experience for all us media (and other things) consumers back then, as re paranoia-inducing influence of far-fetched fact. However, I think McGinniss was assailed for betraying a confidence by printing something MacDonald supposedly slipped him: a note-to-self, written before the homicides, re speed habit getting out of hand (he was taking it while working long hospital shifts). The implication being that he killed while speed-addled (for instance, coming down from speed can indeed involve rage). This evidence may be one of the things Morris claims McG. made up.

Saw an interview recently where he claimed McGinniss made stuff up--and that he, Morris, was an admirer of McGinniss-denouncer Janet Malcolm (who def made shit up, slandering a guy she was writing about, and then later claimed all journalists do it)He dials it back in this Times piece, but h'mmm.

A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"
A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"
A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"
A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"
A procession chanting "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"

Do any of the books about the Satanic abuse scare make a connection between that and the actual abuse by priests that was happening at the time?

no, that would be too easy. also, satanic ritual abuse was mostly a protestant issue iirc.

Just started Sybil Exposed today!

yaaaaaaaay

i am about halfway through Satan's Silence now
loled really loudly at the gym tonight while i was reading

LL: LOL!
Another Gym-goer: What's so funny?
LL: Satan's Silence!
AG-g: ...

i loled at the euphemism for vagina "naugus hole", the fact that one of the men accused of Satanic ritual abuse (Wayne Forsythe) had the words "FUCK THIS" tattooed on his penis and the name Wanda Bunch, who one of the accusers.

who WAS one of the accusers
forgive my syntax
shit was cray

Do any of the books about the Satanic abuse scare make a connection between that and the actual abuse by priests that was happening at the time?

not so far, but i'm not done yet

my guess is that there has yet to be a book with this particular focus
seriously wishing there were a smart filmmaker out there who would tackle the Judy Johnson story -- that lady started a huuuuuuuge shitstorm and died in a pool of her own vomit. she's like the Jim Morrison of sex abuse scandals.

well, Jim Morrison probably would have been the Jim Morrison of sex abuse scandals had he lived

No joke about the "fuck this" penis tattoo? I'm disappointed.

did it literally say:

FUCK THIS
Wanda Bunch!!!

minus the exclamation points, which I feel are essential to sketching out the level of emotion necessary to have a penis tattoo of such a thing

no it just said FUCK THIS on his penis
(but he wasn't a molester! that's the best part)

tbf I doubt most molesters have weirdo paraphernalia and tattoos and accessories, that is more of an extremely-rare thing or something in movies

now, someone randomly having a dick tattoo, that is totally real life

no, that would be too easy. also, satanic ritual abuse was mostly a protestant issue iirc.

― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:08 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The author of and the subject of "Michelle Remembers" were both Catholic, actually.

Also, I clearly remember a lot of my parents' Catholic friends and relatives buying into the Satanic ritual abuse stuff.

Well, truly an issue that crossed protestant/catholic lines

Maybe this is what the Reagan era created to make a cross-denominational religious furor that could supplement the religious right to cement a voting block? /conspiracy

tbf I doubt most molesters have weirdo paraphernalia and tattoos and accessories, that is more of an extremely-rare thing or something in movies

now, someone randomly having a dick tattoo, that is totally real life

― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:07 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was on grand jury duty for a whole year in 2003, and one of the most fucked-up cases cases we had to review was of a child molester who enticed small children by promising to show them "Tweety Bird", which was an actual tattoo of Tweety Bird on his dick.

Never watched Looney Tunes the same way after that.

;_;

So "Jordan, Minnesota" was actually about one of these ostensible SRA cases, right?

tbf a lot of people have weird tweety bird tattoos, saw one behind a girl's ear once

there's weird and then there's 'sexual lure for children'

yeah, I guess I am not jaded enough or too jaded to think anyone would use such an obvious symbol that way

Loony Toons tattoos were very popular amongst frat boys and rednecks in the early to mid 90s.

Funny you should mention that -- Satan's Silence makes a big deal out of the class differences in one of the cases, I forget which atm. All of the accused parents were working class and the judge even went through one woman's diary and mocked her sexual habits, which she documented for some bizarre reason and were apparently perfectly normal. At least normal compared to the poop-eating and baby sacrificing she was accused of.

Whoa. That is serious judicial misconduct IMO.

i'm reading "helter skelter" now. it's way less salacious than i expected; since it's "by" the DA who tried the case against manson and the family, a lot of it is about preparing the case and the trial process, but it's really interesting.

Helter Skelter is a book where it matters a lot whether you're reading the early editions or the post-lawsuit editions iirc?

I've never read it. How do we know whether the version we're reading is pre or post?

Satan's Silence is not quite at Sybil levels of cultural clusterfuck, but it's definitely up there in the top five books that have made me lol at the gym. Have yet to really dig into Michelle Remembers with any serious intent, gotta wait til the election is over before my brain has any more space to offer to ott bananas stuff like that.

So far the theme I find most interesting is the purported class war/paranoia that seemed to be among the many things rumbling underneath the SRA lawsuits.

Yeah I am still basking in the ontological afterglow of Sybil Exposed, gonna wait to start Satan's Silence til I've read some genre hijinks. But I already have Satan's on my Nook. Debbie Nathan roxxorz.

xpost

I sat next to a girl on the bus who was reading Sybil Exposed and she said she didn't much like it. was I right in ignoring her for the rest of the trip?

also since you posted abt 'naugus hole' that phrase has been popping into my head unwantedly quite often!

xpost I would have started a convo in that situ. I wonder what she disliked.

So far the theme I find most interesting is the purported class war/paranoia that seemed to be among the many things rumbling underneath the SRA lawsuits.

I think this was definitely the case with those dudes in Arkansas, the "West Memphis 3."

for real wtf @ 'naugus hole'

i've been scared to google it

I haven't read the book myself! but iirc she didn't like all the typos.

also ping pong i might have asked her too and if she had a shitty answer (that is to say that her answer is boring), ignore.

xp - typo pedant: ignore

though it's true that in satan's silence on my kindle i am often finding myself reading about child pomography.

that does not stop me from enjoying it since it is a typographical error!

maybe naugus hole is a typo?

ok so a bit of googling later-- it is not Helter Skelter that had material redacted after a lawsuit, but Ed Sanders' manson book, The Family.

I remember being a bit turned off by Helter Skelter because of the way Bugliosi saw himself as this Elliot Ness type crimebusting culture-war hero. Which isn't to say I didn't read it like 5 times in high school - it was my go-to when all the good books were checked out. But I haven't read Helter Skelter for a LONG time. Maybe I should revisit.

xpost hmmm an OCR error perhaps...?

None of the usual OCR errors make it make sense though. Riaugus Hole?

Yeah sounds like Bugliosi attributed hundreds of deaths to manson & co which sounds a bit credulous.

nah he doesn't go that far (I read it a few months ago)

Bugliosi (like Sanders) had to remove some libelous stuff about the Process Church from later editions iirc

I remember thinking at the time that the Bugliosi version just seemed very skewed and I wasn't getting the right kind of picture of what happened/how it happened so my logic was, 'maybe I'll get the real story from Manson's bio' (that In His Own words thing where he was interviewed in prison) - lol could I have been more wrong? O_o

there's a middle path but I don't remember ever finding a good even-handed account of everything that went down. maybe the Stanley is the way to go? I haven't looked into the whole Manson arena for so long.

Moderation in all things, including Mansonology

bugliosi definitely has OPINIONS but they mainly seem to be about the judge and other lawyers, i feel like he's pretty charitable towards everyone else (even manson) but i'm not done with the book yet

hmm okay now I want to reread

yeah I don't think he's a scaremongering anti-hippie/pro-establishment type in the book at all

he's pretty critical of LAPD too

yeah he is absolutely brutal towards some of the detectives/police for losing evidence, not following up leads etc.

Anyone have an opinion on The Garbage People by John Gilmore? I bought this at a garage sale many years ago but haven't read it. Reading amazon I see it was re-released as Manson: the unholy trail of... and gets mostly negative reviews.

I still haven't read that one yet. I do like The Shadow Over Santa Susana by Adam Gorightly which is probably the first book I'd hand to someone if they weren't familiar with all the details about the case, The Family, the occult symbology they lifted from, and the whole weird environment around LA in 1969. Worth checking out.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q1r6WUp0yrU/The5ttCOusI/AAAAAAAAAZI/mDemGu_-Oew/s1600/005.JPG

The late '80s were the golden age of Satanic panic, and it would not be an exaggeration to say that the woman known as Lauren Stratford launched that panic to a whole new level.

I guess above link is part of a series on related stuffs: http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.ca/2012/06/prodigal-witch.html

Susan Atkins' husband (a friend of mine) just self-published her memoirs, which are available on Amazon. I have only read brief excerpts, but I believe her version of stuff more than others'.

Update from Satan's Silence:

Just read an entire chapter about the unusual nature of hymens, a short but detailed historical look at the implications of anal winking, and stories of children whose parents agreed to let their genitals be photographed for Medicine and what those photos were used for.

anal winking? I feel like DJP should know about this.

wait everyone doesn't know what that is? by the time i got done reading this chapter, it was like well yeah, anal winking. it was no big deal.

oh god this thread is an out-of-context gold mine

I do not know what it is.

ok do not read this if you are sensitive about anatomy:

it's just a physical reaction -- when you poke someone's anus with a qtip, it will react. the degree to which it reacts was used to determine a variety of things historically, including whether or not the poked person has engaged in sodomy or was abused sexually. unfortunately, it's just a frequently occurring physical reaction to having a qtip poking your anus -- not a taboo thing, just like a reflex. it just sounds funny, like the glory hole in glassblowing.

at least that is what i learned from reading this chapter. i am not an expert in this field nor am i medical professional. i am writing a book report.

That's so bizarre. Whose butthole wouldn't wink if you poked it?

I'm going to punch you in the mouth and if you wince, it means you love sucking dick.

basically
also imagine that you are a 2-4 year old

:(

wait, a reaction was seen as an indicator of weird things happening, not vice-versa?

this is serious "if it floats it's a witch" territory

correct
it is exactly that

the more you deny it, the more they think it's true

i searched my school's academic databases looking for some of the articles referenced as the scientific foundation of the SRA panic, but i didn't search very hard. i found a few things but not exactly what i was looking for. anyway, there was a huge movement to institutionalize/basically codify the research so that the court cases could proceed.

i'll also repeat -- there were obvious class issues at play here as well. also, this was the USA in the mid-late 1980s.

i mean.

anyone who is across-the-board nostalgic for the 80s either wasn't born yet or wasn't paying attention, at all

1986 Meese Report http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meese_Report
It was a fertile climate for total nonsense.

that was some hard work, researching all that porn

tax dollars at work

And there weren't even internets for people to mutually reinforce their nonsense on!

meanwhile, in Central America...

It really was terrifying. When Reagan was elected, I was 12 and I knew in my 12 yo bones that he was going to start a nuclear armageddon v the USSR. By the time I was old enough to realize why that prob wasn't gonna happen I was old enough to understand what he and his coven were up to in yes Central America and elsewhere

yah the eighties were creepy.

i went to public schools and a couple of times they let this cultic christian "campus cruasade"-type group come in and show these dumb multi-media presentations to the entire school-- basically multiple slide projectors running along with (presumably) unlicensed pop music... so there'd be some outfield or mike and the mechanics song playing while a narrator asked a lot of vague rhetorical questions about "making the right decisions" and "fitting in". then at the end some guy got up and invited everyone to come to a "pizza party" that night. i remember some kids who went reporting that it was held in a barn(!) and yeah, it was this bait-and-switch where the teen meetup pizza party turned out to be all about jesus.

it still kind of pisses me off that a public high school would let these people roll through and try to sneakily recruit for their cult. and it WAS basically a cult, b/c a girl i knew stuck with it and a couple of years later she was at my college and still participating with the group. they eventually got banned from campus after they started getting media attention for trying to isolate students from their families, etc. it was one of those ones that would come up to you while you were innocently eating lunch or studying in the library or whatever and would start asking you if you knew for certain that you were going to heaven...

I was 5 in 1980 and I remember crying when I heard that Teeth wasn't going to be our president anymore.

xp - omg that story is terrifying

xps lol "he and his coven"

as my friend, who grew up in a pretty church-oriented family just said to me:
"times were simpler, we absolutely knew that the enemy was living among us
pretending to be god-fearing, church-going Christians, and killing babies under the full moon"

Teeth!

Thing is it's so much worse now, just without the nukes.

ugh, don't remind me

It really was terrifying. When Reagan was elected, I was 12 and I knew in my 12 yo bones that he was going to start a nuclear armageddon v the USSR. By the time I was old enough to realize why that prob wasn't gonna happen I was old enough to understand what he and his coven were up to in yes Central America and elsewhere

I was 9 when he was first elected but had out of control nuclear Armageddon phobia no thanks to this bozo. In 1984, my jagoff social studies teacher had a mock election and I was the only one to vote for Mondale. (The teach said we all voted like our parents were planning to and accused me of fibbing when I said my parents were staunch Reaganites. He also gave me more detentions than any other teacher ever.)

Also holy shit your user name.

Yeah I was in St Paul MN where it was possible for a high school freshman to think Mondale might win, lol. Was crushed by the results.

lol thx xp

My paranoid kids' group failed to attract membership in NEOH, but I bet if you guys had been nearby and had seen my flyers for the Children's Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament, you would have considered attending my meetings. There were only three before my two friends gave up. (We also took a bus to DC and camped out in the mall for the homeless. On that bus ride I learned about The Cure!)

Girl you know I would have been at your meeting.

I was 9 when he was first elected but had out of control nuclear Armageddon phobia no thanks to this bozo

I was 15, but was already well down this path of fear. I remember just fuming at everything when news leaked out that Nancy Reagan had a personal astrologer visit her in the White House.

Girl you know I would have been at your meeting.

― carl agatha, Wednesday, October 24, 2012 1:01 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:D

finally, our membership flourishes! 25 years later better than not at all.

NOW WE MARCH

This time I won't have to bring a separate piece of luggage for cassettes. That's a bonus. Oh, the 80s.

My Kindle highlights finally synched up with my account, so now I have all of the best parts of Satan's Silence at my fingertips.

For the record, here's "naugus hole" in context:

Tanya then identified the dolls’ “wee-wees,” “chee-ehees” (breasts), “butts,” “wienie,” and the “naugus hole,” or vagina

This is some of Judy Johnson's word salad

Matthew feels that he left L.A. International in an airplane and flew to Palm Springs… Matthew went to the armory…. The goatman was there … it was a ritual type atmosphere…. At the church, Peggy drilled a child under the arms, armpits. Atmosphere was that of magic arts. Ray flew in the air…. Peggy, Babs and Betty were all dressed up as witches. The person who buried Matthew is Miss Betty. There were no holes in the coffin. Babs went with him on a train with an older girl where he was hurt by men in suits. Ray waved goodbye … Peggy gave Matthew an enema…. Staples were put in Matthew’s ears, his nipples and his tongue. Babs put scissors,in his eyes …. She chopped up animals … Matthew was hurt by a lion. An elephant played … a goat climbed up higher and higher and higher, then a bad man threw it down the stairs…. Lots of candles were there, they were all black…. Ray pricked his right pointer finger… put it in the goat’s anus…. Old grandma played the piano … [a baby’s] head was chopped off and the brains were burned…. Peggy had a scissors in the church and she cut Matthew’s hair. Matthew had to drink the baby’s blood. Ray wanted Matthew’s spit.

Clearly I am going through post-Halloween gore withdrawal.

wat

Judy Johnson was one of the original accusers in the first wave of SRA cases -- she was visibly disturbed, but the prosecution (who joked about her behind closed doors) moved forward with the accusations anyway. She died at home in a pool of alcohol-related vomit iirc.

Attempting to find the killers, police asked local residents to notify them about men whose behavior might suggest them as the culprit. Thousands of reports flooded in, mainly from women. Though most were dead ends, they constituted a fascinating informal survey of the local male population’s sadistic proclivities.

that is sad, but at the same time, who is ratting me out?

*raises hand*

Here's an example of one of the victim interviews from the McMartin case, which was really early in the SRA hysteria/mass contagion/witch hunt/whatever you wanna call it. Over time, the interviewing techniques were under scrutiny and eventually debunked) in spite of a rather robust attempt on the part of a large cadre of child psychology professionals to legitimize them. There were government-funded SRA conferences and everything.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/victiminterviews.html

Can you imagine what other dirt is in that file? Yikes.

ohhhh fuck @ those interviews ;_;

god

I really need to read this book

It's really good. Now that I've read two of her books, I can say that Debbie Nathan has expert organizational skills. She knows just how much background info to balance with narrative and historical context. I might read her book about pornography next.

The only complaint I have about SS is that it was written in 1994, so there are some questionable opinions about PTSD in there, and feminism, but she usually contextualizes those pretty well.

Has anyone dug through the 1986 Meese Report?

omg INDICTMENT is on netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B6dbLT0ZKQ

that clip is only 16 sec btw

(that's Scorsese's McMartin case courtroom drama starring Henry Thomas, James Woods, and Mercedes Ruhl)

Sorry! It was produced by Oliver Stone. Who doesn't get those two confused amirite?!

― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Friday, November 2, 2012 1:19 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark

Best part was how I posted this to a thread polling a poll and it was an error and omg this is what happens to my brain when I get so bored that I resort to book reporting.

One more thing and then I'll shut up

Ray Buckey (played by Henry Thomas in this movie) was the one who received the majority of the abuse accusations; a significant part of the prosecution's argument (and questioning) relied on a single detail about Ray, which was that he rarely wore underwear and that sometimes kids could see his dong through and under his shorts.

(I love this thread. Here goes my entire afternoon.)

satanic commando

Ok one more thing

This is a 2005 apology from one of the McMartin accusers, who is now a grown up normal person who claims he has nothing but positive feelings about his preschool

The first time I went to CII [Children's Institute International, now known as Children's Institute, Inc., a respected century-old L.A. County child welfare organization where approximately 400 former McMartin children were interviewed and given genital exams, and where many were diagnosed as abuse victims], we drove there, our whole family. I remember waiting ... for hours while my brothers and sisters were being interviewed. I don't remember how many days or if it was just one day, but my memory tells me it was weeks, it seemed so long. It was an ordeal. I remember thinking to myself, "I'm not going to get out of here unless I tell them what they want to hear."

We were examined by a doctor. I took my clothes off and lay down on the table. They checked my butt, my penis. There was a room with a lot of toys and stuffed animals and dolls. The dolls were pasty white and had hair where the private parts were. They wanted us to take off their clothes. It was just really weird.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/oct/30/magazine/tm-mcmartin44

The irony that these kids, who had a completely normal childhood experience until then, were taken to a room where someone looked at their butts and genitals as they were surrounded by weird dolls with hairy privates and told to take off their clothes

Just for posterity's sake, this is from that video of the woman with the haunted toaster

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mddx6uMZO41rtmp17o1_500.jpg

Her toaster isn't possessed. She just has the toasting level up too high.

her bread has a serious weevil problem

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vpuJOIF7G8g/SzvtxEnFICI/AAAAAAAAAqg/Ckk4ilBbfFM/s400/Screen+shot+2009-12-30+at+8.22.03+AM.png

Bo Weevil Bo Weevil
I hope ya boyn in hell

I'm watching Indictment right now! It's ridiculous.

It's pretty good! Would recommend.

Just figured I should update --I finished Debbie Nathan's porn book. It was very informative and educational in tone. I learned some things even though it definitely seems to be intended for youth educational purposes.

She provides a balanced look at the industry from historical, economical, philosophical, and various other perspectives. Por ejemplo

Furthermore, feminist scholar Lisa Duggan notes that porn degrades women no worse than do “non-sexual images of gross violence,” or “advertising images of housewives as dingbats obsessed with getting men’s shirt collars clean.” The real problem isn’t porn, anti-censorship feminists argue — or even fashion and laundry soap ads. Instead, it’s the economic and cultural institutions that keep women as second-class citizens and lead to those insulting images.

I blame the patriarchy.

speaking of witch hunts, here is a disgusting new development

this poor man

The harassment has turned Rosen’s life upside down, and made him feel things once foreign to him, like searing rage. “I was sitting in a restaurant the other night and these guys who were part of a car club came up to me and shook my hand and said, ‘you know, you’re a hero to me.’ He had seen me on TV. So I said thank you. Then I’m sitting there I hear this other guy, ‘oh yeah, it was a conspiracy.’ He was a big guy,” he said.

“I tell you what, I had evil thoughts. I wanted to go over the first guy, and he had about 15 big guys with him, and say, ‘I’m going to go talk to this other guy — just watch my back.’ And then I wanted to go over to other guy and get up in his face and say, ‘see those guys over there, just know they’re keeping an eye out for me.’ And they I wanted to say, ‘I want to see what you look like. I want to see what a person who generates this kind of evil shits looks like. I want to look at your face and tell you you’re an asshole,’” he said.

He didn’t do it, of course. “But it tells me how rageful I am. And I am rageful about it, both for the children and for the mother of the child who came to my house looking for her son and I wanted to look at this guy and I wanted to just fucking decimate him. That’s my rage.”