Best CHEERS character

Coach vs Carla vs Norm

Norm always wins these..

yeah, i've always been a Norm guy. i do think the show lost a lot of ~heart~ when diane left though

woody or cliff

never watched the coach/diane era tho

is it true or false that Night Court happened because ppl liked Harry Anderson's Cheers appearances so much

Woodrow Huckleberry Tiberius Boyd

Immediately voted for Carla but I think I underrated Cliff.

Cliff. or Woody. or Norm. or Lilith. or Carla.

Woody arrived at Cheers expecting to meet his "pen pal" Coach, with whom he exchanged pens instead of letters.

Frasier on "Cheers" was such a great character in ways that now feel distinct from the character on "Frasier"

glad harry the hat's included

embarrassment of riches

ive been watching this recently on netflix, from the beginning. i never saw much of the coach/diane years either, so it's been a pleasant surprise to discover what a gifted comedienne shelley long was. it's easy to imagine why a movie career was considered a no-brainer for her after a while, tho i guess she never found a decent vehicle aside from The Money Pit

oh man, ppl who never saw the Coach/Diane years are REALLY missing out

is it true or false that Night Court happened because ppl liked Harry Anderson's Cheers appearances so much

― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:07 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

i dont know but it sounds plausible!

Night Court, according to the first season DVD, was created without comedian/magician Harry Anderson in mind, but Anderson auditioned with the claim that he was Harry Stone. Anderson had developed a following with his performances on Saturday Night Live and made several successful appearances as con man "Harry the Hat" on another NBC sitcom, Cheers.

I just looked it up; Night Court was already in development but Anderson basically walked into the audition after his Cheers spots and some appearances on SNL and said "fuck you, I'm Harry Stone" and the production team went "well duh, of course"

xp: well that's made me useless

some random cable channel (Reelz i think?) runs 2 Cheers episodes every afternoon, which i've been watching and enjoying the hell out of now and again lately, although it never fails to irritate me that invariably one episode is Diane/Coach era and one is Rebecca/Woody era (i love both eras, just kinda wanna spend time on one or the other and not switch gears halfway through the hour).

"Cliff, with his secret!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qWq5u2yMA&feature=player_embedded

Woody vs. Norm vs. Lilith

Carla vs. Lillith vs. Nick Tortelli

Lilith vs Woody vs Coach

Cliff or Lilith.

decided to vote based on the reruns Reelz aired today and Woody got the biggest laughs from me. also one of the episodes featured a young Sherilyn Fenn and holy crap.

Cheers is on Netflix. This fact makes the world slightly better.

Nick Tortelli, because I used to do an impression of him that made a co-worker laugh so hard she peed her pants.

the kid who played carla's eldest son did a pretty amusing dan hedaya impression.

I have never seen a single minute of this show.

dan hedaya is pretty amazing

The thing is the Norm-Coach-Cliff-Woody characters are p much walking jokes, albeit pretty good ones, deftly played. There's more of a burden on the leads. (Rhea Perlman actually gave 3D heft to her insults, I thought)

I stopped watching when Long left so I guess that signals my choice.

My first vote would probably be for Frasier and Lilith in tandem; Woody, Cliff, Diane and Rebecca (thought they were both great in different ways), and Coach after that. Paul would say something now and again that killed me. Can't vote for two, so I guess Cliff.

Norm was funny most of the time, repetitive occasionally. Almost always found Carla a drag.

Guess I'ma be the only Rebecca vote here.

appreciation of Rebecca clouded by Kirstie Alley becoming a walking joke in real life

Dave Richards . . . (Fred Dryer)

Worlds colliding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlIYukmlVw

People, people. No mentions of Sam "Mayday" Malone. Seriously? Danson just kills on this show.

The thing is the Norm-Coach-Cliff-Woody characters are p much walking jokes, albeit pretty good ones, deftly played. There's more of a burden on the leads. (Rhea Perlman actually gave 3D heft to her insults, I thought)

I stopped watching when Long left so I guess that signals my choice.

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 2:25 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

i pretty much agree, which is why I'm leaning towards Diane. the sam/diane stuff could be a little forced at times, but when they got it right you couldnt tear your eyes off it.

Dave Richards . . . (Fred Dryer)

― mookieproof, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 2:41 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

i thought about throwing him in there but iirc he was only in like 4 episodes and i didnt think there would be any hunter stans repping

I'm still trying to figure out what the "joke" was with Norm. Other than being a cool, nice, approachable dude who didn't want to go home to his wife.

'there's winners and losers in this world . . . here's hoping you're one of them'

Did Cliff ever really zing Norm? They really only work as a duo, each character alone has some pull but together they're the funniest part of the show.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5j4zoZTKz1qzjxs1o1_1280.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5j4zoZTKz1qzjxs1o2_1280.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5j4zoZTKz1qzjxs1o3_1280.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5j4zoZTKz1qzjxs1o4_1280.jpg

COACH: What's your most troublesome problem?
NORM: Ah, that's tough to say, Coach. Let's see. I'm overweight, unemployed, separated, depressed, starting to drink too much. Guess my biggest problem is I've never been happier.

the joke is "fat man/little jacket"

lol

my fav normism is when sam asks him what he'll have and norm goes "a reason to live - keep em comin." the audience didnt even laugh, i think they were just unsettled by it

TBH, I probably would've voted Frasier, but the spinoff killed that joke pretty fast for me.

but frasier on his own show was a different character!

how so?

i had no idea nick and loret-ta got their own spinoff

he was more the straight man, niles was the frasier of 'Frasier'

frasier & lilith were such a power combo that its hard to vote for one individually. lilith's 1st & 2nd appearances are so great

Yeah, voting Lilith solves that problem, doesn't it?

bebe neuwirth is just the greatest

Yeah, the Frasier/Lilith team is genius.

he was more the straight man, niles was the frasier of 'Frasier'

Sort of agree with this, in that Niles is the magnification of the already OTT Frasier character: more prissy, more class-conscious, more neurotic etc. I don't see Frasier as being different on his own show, though, just more fleshed-out. I think he's a very well-written, well-played character in both.

I think I've gotten the most flat-out laughs from Woody, but it's definitely a textbook example of ensemble comedy where every piece works. It took me a while to appreciate the Rebecca character, and I still don't think she ever reached the heights Diane did (that "Un Film de Diane Chambers" still cracks me up just thinking about it) but somewhere along the line Kirstie Alley fit in.

yeah MANCHILD IN BEANTOWN will never not be funny

Diane for her delivery of the line "You are a sand flea."

remember when Shelley Long came back and had apparently forgotten how to play Diane? ;_;

also...

People, people. No mentions of Sam "Mayday" Malone. Seriously? Danson just kills on this show.

― Godzilla vs. Rodan Rodannadanna (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 2:43 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, danson is the man. ive always loved me some danson. sam's a great character, probably too easy to take for granted since he was always there. he did become a bit more buffoonish post-long

Shelley Long's birthday is tomorrow.

I was so skeptical of Danson doing drama after seeing him do comedy for so long but he kind of nailed it on Damages

not that i'm gonna go out of my way to see how he is on CSI but there was a point a while back where he was appearing on Damages, Bored To Death and Curb Your Enthusiasm around the same time and it was like damn this guy has really aged into a nice post-Cheers career

I was so skeptical of Danson doing drama after seeing him do comedy for so long but he kind of nailed it on Damages

http://content7.flixster.com/photo/10/94/95/10949557_gal.jpg

Ted Danson as Ted Danson was always one of my favorite Curb characters and it makes me sad that hes not on the show more

The wiki entry for "Cliff Clavin" was evidently written by someone only passingly familiar with English:

Cliff does not have an on-screen relationship with any woman. He attempts every woman but becomes rejected.

"only passingly"? cmon, that's high level esl ;)

Ratzenberger requested an addition of a know-it-all character, which resulted Cliff Clavin. Ratzenberger made each of guest appearances as Cliff Clavin in Wings and Frasier.

During high school I had a job working in an office mail room. Every day I'd collect all the mail for the office and walk it up to the post office. Invariably I'd run into this one kid from school who'd always say something like (in a strong Boston accent) "hey, it's Cliff Clavin!"

So I guess I'm voting for Cliff.

he did become a bit more buffoonish post-long

sam was smart at the very beginning, but they made him dumber

Am I the only one here who had never read the stories of Woody Harrelson's father the hit man?

I mean I had no idea, not sure how I missed this.

Certainly adds depth to the actor, for sure.

coach barely over diane over sam over frasier w/ woody a slightly more distant fifth

btw best sitcom all time

better than cosby?

cosby show

by 1,000,000 miles

love cosby but that's probably not even top ten for me

i don't know how, but i have never ever watched this show

xp me neither but i always thought of you as a cos diehard for some reason

off top of my head i got cheers up top, seinfeld and larry sanders right below that, and then sgt bilko, dick van dyke, mary tyler moore, bob newhart, andy griffith, barney miller, and something i'm obviously forgetting. my mind is telling me arrested development but my body my body's telling me petticoat junction.

haha i was kinda surprised that youd be a huge cosby fan for some reason! (xp)

ive been thinking about this all day and im gonna vote diane

bob newhart

this shit is all time - rest of yr list is terribad tho

sorry it's terribad bro

if your body is telling you petticoat junction you have more to worry about than my opinion of yr taste in sitcoms

take your seinfeld-hating to another thread, lamp.

i dont hate seinfeld!

I kinda do

lamp got me - i like white women yall :(

lamp what's yr top ten? flight of the conchords #1, then what?

flight of the conchords is a good show, they have funny songs that are parodies of other, less funny, songs

I can't even think of 10 sitcoms I like or would be willing to sit through regularly, much less which ones are "best". Apart from the Larry Sanders Show, I guess.

Golden Girls and Cheers are pretty consistently funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpX8qUs1Ng

quite possibly my favorite youtube vid ever

seinfeld's my no. 1 easily, with the honeymooners a close second.

wtf ppl, Cosby Show pwns

suppose you're going to say The Jeffersons and Good TImes were both garbage, too

Didn't ILE do a sitcom ballot poll? Maybe I'm thinking about the comedy films poll.

THE FINAL FOUR What's on TV, ILX? It's the American Sitcom Tournament

Arrested Development won rmde

I dunno how the Simpsons qualifies as a sitcom but it was better than pretty much everything else ever in its heyday

no wait the Simpsons won lol

ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT vs. THE SIMPSONS What's on TV, ILX? It's the American Sitcom Tournament FINAL MATCH

feels like cheating to say simpsons, tho it is the best television show ever of any type

yeah I kinda don't get how two shows that don't have standard three-camera/fixed stage setups qualify as sitcoms but whatever

and ugh the narration in AD, how do people get past that. "And then this thing happened... meanwhile this other thing happened" is like the worst joke set-up in the world and it leans on it constantly.

yeah, danson is the man. ive always loved me some danson. sam's a great character, probably too easy to take for granted since he was always there. he did become a bit more buffoonish post-long

I do think t-dans is a bit underrated in this cast, he owns on cheers and elsewhere too.

Also re : Frasier, on cheers he was a pretty dark occasionally angry dude who was certainly vv different from the guy on his eponymous show. The show might as well have been "Frasier: witness protection program" for how much he left his Boston steez behind when he went to Seattle.

On cheers during the period after Diane left him he was one grim dude. A far cry from farcical fraiser trying to keep his three gfs in different rooms while sharing dinner w all of them at once

ha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-vwMEEe7E

Oh god, forgot about those horrible sitcom brackets results. (Well, not The Simpsons winning. That's OK. More the Arrested Development knocking out Taxi part. That's dumb.)

(Ditto M*A*S*H beating out All in the Family. And The Monkees beating The Golden Girls.)

Wasn't there a ballot- and points-based poll on sitcoms too?

give me 30 seconds of the monkees over the fuckin' golden girls any day

early all in the family is top 5 material but it did get pretty sappy after the first few seasons.

On the whole, ILX has a decided anti-Norman Lear bent.

AD narration is a) lols, b) allows for greater joke density in non-narration

Danson is a beast on Cheers btw, watch him when the scene belongs to other ppl and he is always 100% on point at supporting the other actors and the situation, always showing Sam as engaged but amused by what's going on if he's not going to enter the scene - letting his face play harmony or gentle counterpoint - and building his reactions and engagement if Sam's going to start interacting proper. So great at showing Sam thinking, too.

And on the smart/dumb thing - he's always rly good at handling, in a sitcom reality, when Sam's in his element and stays calm and smart and on top of things vs him getting dumb *bcz* of swelling hubris or Diane-related fuckwant. <-- this is highlighted by his chasing Rebecca in her early years; sometimes he wins the zings, sometimes the zings sting him, but he's always just enjoying the dance, the performance of it - if he loses it's not a source of frustration, bcz his ego's not involved yet.

give me 30 seconds of the monkees over the fuckin' golden girls any day

I think surm just clutched the pearls.

haha ok maybe that was pushing it but what is it with ppl and that goddamn show

there's this great piece in one of the harlan ellison books of TV criticism where he reviews what's obviously the AITF pilot (starring 'archie justice') and goes on this diatribe about how cutting-edge shows like this NEVER EVER EVER get picked up, why does he even bother turning on his set, etc.

love his constant cutting up of limes when's he's playing the background of a scene too - no-one's ordering G&Ts or V/L/S or whatever, but he's an in-recovery alcoholic in a bar and is keeping his hands busy. same with the completely inappropriate swagger that he brings to swigging from those dinky little water bottles. his swig swag.

xpost to me obv

sic bringing the quality itt

GG is etched in my DNA in ways even I don't understand. I can see how, objectively, it's not as well-crafted as some of the other sitcom heavyweights, but I'll never argue against it.

watching the first episode of this show because of this damn thread and sic is already otm about danson

i thought bebe neuwirth was the most beautiful woman ever when i was a kid

still watching; norm is obvs the answer to this question

oh don't get me started on neuwirth again

haha me too xps

http://images.zap2it.com/images/tv-EP00000882/cheers-bebe-neuwirth-1.jpg

i think lilith prefigured 90s lipstick

diane is such an asshole, y'all, how can you vote for her

i thought bebe neuwirth was the most beautiful woman ever when i was a kid

there was a girl on the train to school, and one in the Bust A Move video, but Lilith was up there

never thought this was a bad show but never watched a whole episode either
did the taxi people create this one, that is a show i loved
liked the first 2-3 seasons of frasier, some reason that clicked more for me

Cast CHEERS with members of the ILX community

did the taxi people create this one, that is a show i loved

yeah, some of them - Burrows had also directed Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart and Laverne & Shirley already (and went on to direct 90% of all US sitcom pilots post-Cheers)

(never seen taxi [or most of the mouldy old cheese ppl keep talking abt itt] tho)

i grew up watching so much Cheers and Taxi and Night Court that i think i had some innate sense that comedy thrived in nocturnal settings

ummm isnt that really obviously laurel

― deeznuts, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:41 PM

hey you said it

― chaki, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:41 PM

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/root/sitebuilder/mcweb/images/nursing/tiercy_lifesaver.jpg

love norm. there was a good one on the other night where frasier and lilith discover norm is secretly a fantastic interior designer. he pretends to be "fabulous" to get a gig designing some yuppies' pad. hilarious watching subdued norm roll with that. sam is his lover. but the truth will out!

i think lilith prefigured 90s lipstick

She is like Janeane Garofalo's cool nanny.

I used to consider Taxi part of the moldy old cheese shelf, too, growing up. But it's probably my favorite of all sitcoms centered around a workplace.

(Which sort of points up what I like about Cheers ... that most of the people in the show are at the setting because they want to be. Not because they work or sleep there.)

Cheers is sort of the blurry line between 70s desperation sitcoms and 90s "friends" type sitcoms. It never gets gritty like some of the taxi type ones but never quite let's you forget where it comes from. Did always love the water bottle touch w Sam and gotta say must rep for the swaggering guest role of sam's id and former teammate (iirc?) as played by Hunter himself Fred Dryer.

Man Tom skerrIt was so on point as Evan drake too

Dryer of course was originally in the running to play Sam. Based on evidence here, he might have done an alright job at some aspects but maybe missed the comic highs Danson is able to nail.

Danson plays gay on Taxi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3nL7mQGbQ

OMG THE CHEERS THEME BUT LOUD YOUTUBE!!!!!!!!

<3 distortion <3

stuck between cliff and coach as sentimental favorites

cheers theme but loud was going to be in my OP but i thought a screenshot would be better

love his constant cutting up of limes when's he's playing the background of a scene too - no-one's ordering G&Ts or V/L/S or whatever, but he's an in-recovery alcoholic in a bar and is keeping his hands busy. same with the completely inappropriate swagger that he brings to swigging from those dinky little water bottles. his swig swag.

― ʘ (sic), Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

very otm! danson's performance is so lived-in from day one. great danson body language moment: theres a norm ep in season 1 or 2 where sam and norm are having a convo in the pool room (i think its the ep where norm confesses he loves vera but he has to be a pig in front of the guys anyway), norm's futzing around with some pool balls and sam wordlessly shows him a pitching grip with the cueball. i assume it was improvised, and its a great brando-picking-up-the-glove moment

diane is such an asshole, y'all, how can you vote for her

― horseshoe, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 10:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

well, she grows as a character, she starts out as just a prig but gains dimensions. she can be frustrating (just like sam) but long makes her lovable without softening her irritating edges. and long brings a lot of comic dimensions to the table... she can do slapstick, she can do screwball, she can be dry and she can be antic and it's all credible.

Cheers is sort of the blurry line between 70s desperation sitcoms and 90s "friends" type sitcoms. It never gets gritty like some of the taxi type ones but never quite let's you forget where it comes from. Did always love the water bottle touch w Sam and gotta say must rep for the swaggering guest role of sam's id and former teammate (iirc?) as played by Hunter himself Fred Dryer.

― omar little, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

this is otm too. the Taxi lineage is pretty clear early on (Taxi owned btw), and as the show progresses it becomes more antic and farcical. the show walks this weird tightrope (esp in the early seasons) where they're not sure how much they can acknowledge that they're milking laughs from depressed degenerates. that's why i love those norm lines i quoted upthread.

i imagine that Dryer's sam would've been coarser, i dont know if he could've pulled off danson's sweaters & sailboats vibe.

Plumped for Cliff: Cliff bled - moustache and all - from Cheers into real life, in Glasgow, sometime in the early-mid 1990s and drank in a bar that I worked in. I just googled Cliff's Glasgow Name and found his linkedin profile. He has no connections.

Cheers was so much a part of my early life. Every Friday night with my sister and my parents, and as soon as it finished my Dad would clap his hands and say 'Off to bed'. Of course we'd stay as quiet as possible in order to to remain invisible to my folks. I don't think I've seen an episode in about ten years.

also one of the best tv themes of all time.

Another way Cheers and Taxi are linked for me is that, as a kid, I used to switch away from both because I hated their opening theme/credits. M*A*S*H did the same thing too, to an even greater extent, and unlike Cheers & Taxi, I still hate that show.

okay i love diane

happy birthday shelley long!!

Previews Jingle:
Thank you for coming to Loew's.
Sit back and relax
and enjoy the show!

Previews Announcer: Coming this Spring from Tri-Star Pictures..

[ Husband's eyes widen in excitement as he watches the preview ]

In a land where there is no daylight, fire is a way of life.

Husband: Ooh, this looks good!

Clint Eastwood: Burn, baby, burn!

Previews Announcer: "The Fire King".

Husband: Man, I love Eastwood! I'm definitely going to see that one!

[ bouncy music surrounds next preview ]

Previews Announcer: Meet Diane Carvenal. She's got just two days to learn how to juggle, or she'll lose custody of her only son.

[ Music Pot: "I Feel Good", James Brown ]

Shelley Long is: "My Mom, The Mime". Rated R.

Husband: That looks awful. How do movies like that get made?

Wife: I know what you mean..

Black Man in Rear of Theater: [ exubirant ] That looked funny!

Wife: Boy, you know, I really wish they would just hurry up with the movie.

Husband: Oh, here it is. I think it's starting.

Previews Jingle:
Thank you for coming to Loew's.
Sit back and relax
20 more minutes of previews.

Wife: [ groans ]

[ dissolve to exterior, Loew's Theatre ]

[ SUPER: "Twenty Minutes Later" ]

[ dissolve to interior of theatre ]

Previews Announcer: And this cop doesn't have a badge or a gun, because he's not a cop. John Ratzenberger is.. "Not-a-Cop".

Wife: Well, that should be about it..

Previews Jingle:
Thank you for coming to Loew's.
You've been very patient
so here's more previews!

Husband: Oh, come on!

Angry Man: Start the movie!

Black Man in Rear of Theater: [ overjoyed ] Yeah, more previews!

Previews Announcer: Joe Nukem just found out he has terminal cancer. That means he only has 24 hours left - to rock!

[ Music Pot: "Panama", Van Halen ]

Wife: Oh, come on! Now that is just poor taste!

Black Man in Rear of Theater: [ laughing ] He got sunglasses on!

Previews Announcer: Hal Linden and Shelley Long star in.. "Panama".

Husband: Hey, look, it's been, like, over 30 minutes. You want to get out of here?

Wife: Let's go.

Husband: Come on.

[ stand up and race to exit doors ]

Previews Jingle:
Thank you for coming to Loew's.
Don't think about leaving
The doors are locked from the outside!

Husband: What?!

Wife: Come on, they can't be serious..

Disturbed Man: [ trying to force open the locked doors ] It's true! We're locked in here!

Wife: Oh, my God!

Previews Announcer: Shelley Long has just met the man of her dreams. The only problem? He's a puppet!

[ Music Pot: "I Feel Good", James Brown ]

Wife: You already used that song!

[ dissolve to exterior, Loew's Theatre ]

[ SUPER: "Two Hours Later" ]

[ dissolve to interior of theatre ]

Previews Announcer: See the award-winning film from Pakistan - "Vendetta of Ganesh". Starring Shelley Long.

Wife: God, why are there so many Shelley Long movies?! I'm getting really thirsty..

Husband: My cell phone won't work, either. They're jamming it..

Black Man in Rear of Theater: These previews are hilarious!

[ dissolve to exterior, Loew's Theatre ]

[ SUPER: "The Next Day" ]

[ dissolve to interior of theatre ]

[ Music Pot: "I Feel Good", James Brown ]

Wife: Water! I need water!

Husband: I'm sorry, I've got some melted ice.

Wife: Please! Give it to me, then!

Angry Man: Hey, I found half a box of Junior Mints!

Disturbed Man: Give me those, you son of a bitch!

Previews Announcer: Rhea Perlman is Shelley Long, in "The Shelley Long Story".

[ movie patrons start to tear Man apart, limb for limb ]

Angry Man: Owwww!! Owww!! They're tearing me apart!

every character in this is so great, its so hard to choose. rebecca was a little off-message her first season or two, but the whole robin colcord subplot is gravy - the episode with her getting drunk the night before the wedding and trying to seduce sam is all time.

but it's gotta be woody, i guess.

Rebecca: "Woody, have you ever had your whole life cave in on you all of a sudden?"
Woody: "No, but I have had a cave cave in on me."

this is totally my favourite sitcom of all time btw.

Cosby Show would easily be in my top ten, too.

Timely:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/646620881.jpg?key=480679&Expires=1346263466&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=udPZLYhZX1-neE6OdWNumxvZe8P8EDrMvMmFzVw2rcmkNZrChCwBw8J3l4deTlQgs70K5bwDR8ewGgGsvcRWEtffGW-c8tcHmq039f0oHh4xEJB0gCo5HEOFi60-v5XJ5cJG8Tvp0qZGYBsigaAuVzdVxcBxTkIM~Sx4WU-iDn0_

hey, i know the guy who made that

Charles, Burrows or Charles?

some doof on a movie forum was talking about how he'd rather watch 4 episodes of cheers than any given movie, so someone responded with that

i keep missing threads!

i think i'll vote carla

voted norm just you mention Cheers and the first thing i think of is "NORM!"

are there any episodes where at least several of the characters are all visibly hammered?

Lilith, because she is smoking hot.

I always thought Norm was short until I met him on the set of Space Truckers. George Wendt was like 6'1 or more.

I'd also really though Dennis Hopper was around my height until i met him on that film & found out he was 5'6 or something.
Think I'm slightly short of 6ft.

& funny that John Ratzenberger was always an action film hero actor/bit part player until he did this and was a postman who lived at home with his mother. You see him among the marines in A Bridge Too Far and stuff.
Bit like Leslie Neilsen always being a straight action hero leading man until about Airplane.

Isnt George Wendt a death metal fan or something?

Haha, actually, George Wendt loves the Who.

Voted George Wendt.

If memory serves, at least a couple of them had clearly been drinking the night they all did Leno after the final show. (xposts)

Saw George Wendt on tv once talking about Wayne Kramer.

I was thinking of putting a live tape by the Whipping Boy somewhere for him when I did that film. Wonder if he'd've liked them. I did hear he was into things like Husker du, though i think he's hanging with Soul Asylum in Mould's book, at least until the beer runs out.

He was once sighted at a Replacements show in Chicago.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/350033/cheers-star-george-wendt-direct-wayne-kramer-video.jhtml

HARDEN: One day Woody brought the cast of Cheers and we played a half-court game with them. Ted Danson was there and the heavy one, the fat one — George [Wendt] — and another guy. They were playing me, Woody, and someone else. George Wendt hit a jumper on me. I couldn't believe it. I was like, "Wait a minute, let me get to work on this guy." But they stopped the game so we could go film. I never got the chance to redeem myself. He hit a long jumper on me. That's unbelievable — he couldn't even get off the ground.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8266665/an-oral-history-ron-shelton-basketball-comedy-white-men-jump

He did read this thread: the right to be fat?

Gah, I meant "didn't".

Wendt used to go to London between seasons in the early 90s and see indie rock bands in Camden toilet venues & the Reading festival

i saw him at the astoria in london (rip) at a buffalo tom show while he was starring in Art here.

that owns

i see my childhood belief that george wendt was the coolest human being on earth turned out to be correct

haha otm

maybe bebe neuwirth is *literally* the most beautiful woman in history, too

Love the way Lilith *looks* too, just a great visual creation

well how bout that

http://snakkle.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bebe-neuwirth-yearbook-senior-year-young-1976-photo-GC.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAb1W6FJ2qo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGDq7bchbEU

you know, I don't think I have ever been served a beer in a mug at a bar

i saw him at the astoria in london (rip) at a buffalo tom show while he was starring in Art here.

― a bag of andy capp's hot fries (stevie), Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:38 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I love(d ;_;) the Astoria.
I love Buffalo Tom.
That is fantastic.

you know, I don't think I have ever been served a beer in a mug at a bar

I have. Drink enough of them and it usually leads to situations like this one.

http://canitbesaturdaynow.com/images/fpics/831/april_2_232_.jpg

maybe bebe neuwirth is *literally* the most beautiful woman in history, too

no maybe about it.

Shame the Astoria is no more anyway innit?
Liked that venue most of the time.
Was it not used for concerts (as in rock gigs) until about 25 years ago or something. Don't seem to remember going there much until the 90s.

went there LOADS in the 90s (and early 00s), along with its sister venue, the LA2. so many good times. and it was a great venue - London's best of that size, lots of character, decent staff. they installed a new sound system in the mid-00s, and it was DEAFENING in a good way.

and then Boris levelled it, the cunt.

you know, I don't think I have ever been served a beer in a mug at a bar

― chicago rap twitter luminary (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, August 29, 2012 7:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

really?

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_490/1269619507bQNiX6.jpg

i have been served a beer in a mug at a bar, voted woody

one time i was servered a beer in a boot shaped mug in a bar, it was cute

A cold beer out of a mug like that is one of life's great pleasures.

yeah I've had the boot

I dunno, in America things come in pint glasses. I was annoyed recently when I was served beer in a mason jar. but a mug? can't recall it.

Lol, i live in america myself.

depends on the bar and theme, but yeah, pint glasses are pretty standard at most bars. more likely to see mugs as the larger beer size at places that offer two sizes, or at older or theme places.

german bars for sure

Used to drink from a mug all the time at the neighborhood place. Kind of a rip since it was only 12 oz.

It was nice having it frosted though.

there's a place near me with small frosted mugs for like 75 cents. colder than hell and cheap. It's great during the summer.

Instantly went for Lilith. My iPod is even named Lilith.

http://gifsoup.com/view7/2773947/huh-wtf-whatever-o.gif

i'm sorry but..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAr7jsr0qZQ

:')

coach's daughter always played oddly for me, because moonlighting lady isnt even close to homely!

Yeah, like how Blanche's fat daughter isn't really very fat at all.

"what did you model?"
"my guess would be car covers."

pitchers are often accompanied by 12oz mugs

"Just how many pounds is it that I'm currently loving?"

On 9/15 - ‘Color Me Obsessed’ A film about The Replacements, with screenings at 7p & 9:15p

Combining over 140 interviews with rockers (Colin Meloy of The Decemberists, Craig Finn of The Hold Steady, Tommy Ramone, Grant Hart and Greg Norton of Husker Du, all three members of Goo Goo Dolls),
journalists (Robert Christgau, Legs McNeil, Ira Robbins, Greg Kot, JimDeRogatis), and fans both famous (Tom Arnold, Dave Foley, George Wendt) and not, Bechard delivers the obsessive tale of the most influential band you've never heard of, to many the greatest rock band of all time, The Replacements.

lol WHO KNEW?

Also, Tom Arnold? ha!

colder than hell

you don't say

Saw John Ratzenberger on the street today. Should've told him about this poll.

dude i will totally email you the results

if you see him again also tell him about John Ratzenberger roles in Pixar movies

I will. If he's staying where I think he's staying I walk by there at lunchtime most days. He was grumpily waiting for his Japadog.

isn't he a tea party dude now?

Carla: "Wim with Jim?"
Diane: I thought it up. It's very Joycian.
Carla: If that means stupid, I agree.

I think he is. Too bad.

Aww. First Clint @ RNC and now this.

Ratzenberger has been a loud and public cranky conservative r-winger for decades

Dude worked for Darth Vader. What do you expect?

IMDb says he was one of the Rebels..?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

absurd

ditto

Just discovered this. Would have voted Norm.

Would also have strongly suggested that this poll have included Gary (of Gary's Olde Towne Tavern).

lol @ votes for Paul and Al

voted coach as i assumed norm would win.

Dunno if it was mentioned here or not but John Ratzenberger was in the big 70s BBC show Secret Army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Army (the show that 'Allo 'Allo was a parody of)

Was watching it on UK Gold a few years back and he appears in one of the late episodes where the Allies have arrived. I nearly fell off my chair in shock when I saw him.

It made me see Allo Allo in a new light. I got all the in-jokes like the women upstairs etc.
Even funnier is the colonel from Allo Allo is in it as a nazi colonel.

wowww, never thought cliff would take it. i was honestly never a huge cliff fan. nothing against him, he has some great moments, but not a favorite

Would also have strongly suggested that this poll have included Gary (of Gary's Olde Towne Tavern).

― "An Andy Kaufman for the Four Loko generation" (R Baez), Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:09 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark

iirc gary was played by multiple actors, i just wasn't comfortable with that

glad paul, al and nick got votes

cliff kind of makes my skin crawl

i get what you mean. i guess hes meant to be a lovable loser but it never really played for me.

nah he's meant to be at least on the edge of creepy imo

yeah i always thought the show intended him to make your skin crawl? feel like as the seasons go on carla is particularly vocal about how repulsive she finds him and as a kid i tended to adopt carla's views on everything.

maybe people voted for him as best character in that british way where they don't find him likable but *provocative* or whatever

anyway norm was robbed

Cliff was a really well played character that was responsible for a ton of huge laughs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gku_xU2BXBs

i love cliff but him getting 5X the votes frasier got is kinda insane

cliff's funniest when hes owning carla, imo

balls otm

diane was robbed

i mean, frasier's just hilarious. his funny peaks are way way funnier than cliff's, in this poster's opinion.

originally this poll was gonna be cliff vs norm but then i thought i'd do the whole cast. and i assumed norm would run away with it, heh.

i voted for diane, but i didnt expect her to win

hated diane when i was a kid, watched a shit ton of episodes over the past year and was blown away by shelly long. i love norm but i think i love diane saying 'norman' when the rest of the bar goes 'NORM!' even more.

haha yeah diane was a total wet blanket to kid-me.

i love cliff but him getting 5X the votes frasier got is kinda insane

i wonder if Frasier's poor showing here has something to do with "Frasier"

More to do with Lilith it appears.

i kind of look at this thread as a celebration of the ensemble where the results don't really matter and could never really be 'correct' tbh

Someone do TAXI now!

louie would steal it wouldnt he

It would be Louie versus Jim.

these results are messed!

i love cliff but him getting 5X the votes frasier got is kinda insane

yeah i think this is because frasier the show quickly became a corny, prissy french farce, and because kelsey grammer is a motherfucker with some dark secrets...

kinda most surprised by how few votes Woody got

Lilith came second?

i voted woody

How did anyone end up with less votes than Diane?!?! SMH

Thing I like most about this board is how after every poll, my immediate reaction is "fuckin' ILX…"

Let's do a Night Court poll and see how many votes Mac gets for first place.

I would totally campaign for Mac

Had you down for either Roz or Selma, tbh.

oh shit Roz

sorry Mac, Marsha Warfield is my long time boo

I was first in line: Best TAXI Character

Let's do a Judge Judy poll, see who wins!

woody harrelson is a motherfucker with some dark secrets

i always liked woody more than coach tbh

Coach was great as a befuddled old man, Woody was a masterpiece of naivete and comic misinterpretation. Woody Harrelson is a charismatic motherfucker, too

oh man, Reelz is running the first Lilith episode! she dumps Fraser in the first act and then Sam sets him up with Jennifer Tilly, never saw this before

It is really hard to settle on a favorite character aside from Diane (who could be far too grating which I realize was part of the character, but still).

this was the right result

Cheers writer Ken Levine disagrees with this graph from the internet:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HyxKHsCu5sI/UFnzNPQ2imI/AAAAAAAAM-8/yzkiDrw4tyM/s1600/cheers-20110908-090007.jpg

As someone who wrote these characters for nine years, this would be my order:

Lilith
Frasier
Diane
(now comes a big drop)
Sam
Rebecca
Carla
Norm
Cliff

Coach
Woody

Sam was dumbed down over the years but at least during the first few seasons he was very smart and savvy. So if you average his IQ over the seasons he still comes out way ahead, certainly better than Cliff.

I can't believe they put Cliff anywhere near the top.

Why Coach over Woody? They were both pretty addled. But you figure that before he was hit in the head by too many fastballs, the Coach was probably smarter. Although, now that I think about it, how intelligent do you have to be to just get out of the way?

ken levine otm, internet image macro infographic off the money

cliff that high is just bonkers

the placement of cliff that high makes me question the intelligence of the infographic creator. i imagine a cliff-like being putting together this sequence, rationalizing it in a way that sounds decent if you're not really paying attention, but if you are, you just shake your head in wonder at the ability of humanity to justify its stupidity

i imagine a cliff-like being putting together this sequence,

yes otm

Yeah, what's up with that?

lol i love the idea of some credulous viewer thinking that Cliff is the wise sage who has so much knowledge

The main hook to Cliff's character was that he never had a clue what he was talking about; that chart is hilarious.

</banalcheersobservations>

Cliff being smarter than Carla would invalidate every single interaction they ever had!

they did sort of play him that way in the earliest eps, but they quickly realized it was funnier to undercut his knowitall interjections

re: being a wise sage

Cliff on Jeopardy is one of TV's all time classic episodes.

Norm's ability to effortlessly zing people is all-time, the writers obviously valued that.`

Cliff as standup is one of my favourite episodes ever (My Son The Father, I believe)

I voted Cliff but immediately wished I'd actually voted Rebecca.

Team Carla, obv.

haha i just watched an episode that ends with Woody outsmarting Sam (after Sam promises him a raise of $100 a month, Woody says "that's too steep, I'll settle for $30 a week" and Sam acts like he was a master negotiator)

that's quintessential cheers for me - everyone thinks they have one up on somebody, and they're rarely right (including frasier, often)

didn't woody end up being mayor of boston or something?

oh god yes. another of frasier's plans gone wrong.

city councilman

frasier was such a great character on cheers, but i really tired of his sitcom very quickly. like the hunting of the snipe episode, or the one where he's getting the bar interested in charles dickens by adding grisly horror and action movie details to the stories. "it's a far far better butt-kicking i give today, than i have ever butt-kicked before." genius.

http://distilleryimage8.s3.amazonaws.com/29401414c22d11e1b10e123138105d6b_7.jpg

also
http://distilleryimage10.s3.amazonaws.com/ebb2fa58e71611e18a3522000a1cf770_7.jpg

i'm really impressed by how they were able to find old timey photographs of barhounds in the opening credits that were analogs to the characters. the ones for frazier and rebecca are especially good.

and i saw this place in portugal last week
http://distilleryimage9.s3.amazonaws.com/71562b9405a811e283fd123138141137_7.jpg

they did their research, i'll give them that
http://distilleryimage5.s3.amazonaws.com/a9a96dda05a811e2a336123138178793_7.jpg

awesome

every once in a while i think about the (last) wwi vet who streaked out of the back room yelling 'lafayette we are here!'

http://www.paulsiegelcommlaw.com/Communication%20Law%20in%20America/Additional%20Images/Chapter%205/cheers%20collage.jpg

stevie's 2nd pic, daaaamn

Hahaha, I've been looking FOR YEARS for photos of those things.

Animatronic Claven kinda looks like George W. Bush.

i'm really impressed by how they were able to find old timey photographs of barhounds in the opening credits that were analogs to the characters. the ones for frazier and rebecca are especially good.

Are those real photos though? I've always thought they were made up, because they show scenes from the late 19th/early 20th century of fancily dressed white guys drinking alongside black guys and women, which I assume wasn't how bars for upper/middle class white men were back then.

Or maybe the photos are real and the drawn pictures in the beginning of the credits aren't?

pretty sure all the stuff is real and old tbh but i don't know for sure

they were all real

Is there any info available where/when the pics are from?

They had something up on the official website about it when the series first ran, but they took the site down after the last episode aired in 1993.

Cheers had an official website back then?! Must've been one of the first TV series to have one.

Anyway, I'm not saying the drawn pics are fake, but some of them look a bit dubious to me, especially the one seen here at 0:17, where you can see a black guy drinking with middle-class white guys, in a setting that appears to be a late 19th century bar. Weren't bars like this segregated in the US back then?

Not all of them and not everywhere. I grew up in a very old harbor town; bars weren't really segregated until the 20th Century. Working class sailor bars were mixed; fancy establishments were de facto segregated, but that was more a question of class.

The bad thing about this thread is I want to take a couple of days off of work to watch Cheers.

I can't see anything bad about that at all.

They had something up on the official website about it when the series first ran, but they took the site down after the last episode aired in 1993.

― Trad., Arrrgh (stevie), Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:29 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n590/chunkles22/taysays.gif

why thank you

do we have "Night Court" to blame for "Dave's World"?

no more than American Top 40 with Shadoe Stevens

From Cheers writer Ken Levine's blog

Weird question I've always wondered- where exactly did those paintings from the opening credits of CHEERS come from?

The opening credits were created by Castle-Bryant. They found old pictures of folks in bars and built that montage. I understand though one or two photos are actually people in a barbershop.

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2008/10/barbershop-where-everyone-knows-your.html

omigod I forgot "Shadoe" was in "Dave's World."

http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/201210/cheers-oral-history-extended?printable=true&mobify=0

oh wow what totally excellent timing -- and it's raftery!

Long: Before the audition, I grabbed the dress I'd been planning to wear, only to realize that the waistband had been stretched to double it's normal size. But I didn't have an alternative and I was running late, so I just put a belt on and hoped it would be okay. When I met Ted, I realized too late that it was so blousy that I was giving him quite the view. I think it got us off to a really great start.

Danson: I was too terrified to notice she had breasts. I do remember that I was eating a sandwich.

damn that's a good history – and I think I've seen four episodes in my life.

Alley: One time, I brought Prince to the set. He's a friend of mine, and he asked to come. There were VIP rooms behind the audience, where a lot of the execs would sit, so I had Prince sitting up there. Everyone wanted to meet him, but he's a little shy. I think Woody went in and shook hands with him, and came down and said, "He isn't even talking to me!" But Jackie Swanson—she had a relationship with Prince, too.

Swanson: I've known Prince for many years—I worked on the "Raspberry Beret" video—and Kirstie and I used to fight about him. He once sent a card [saying] he had penned a song about me, called "Palomino Pleasure Ride." I remember bringing this card to work one time and showing Kirstie and saying: "See? Now who's the better friend?" It was so ridiculous. But Prince thought the writing on Cheers was smart. And he loved Kelly's headbands.

wow, william devane was a finalist for sam! this is awesome

Love this:

I did a horrible job. As I was leaving, the casting director says, "Thank you, John," and my eight-by-ten was already in a wastebasket. But the writer part of me turned around and said, "Do you have a bar know-it-all?" Because in the bars in my neighborhood where my father hung out, there was always a bar know-it-all. Glen said, "What are you talking about?" I just launched into an improvisation of what [became Cliff].

yeah that's awesome. also that Woody Boyd was named before they cast Woody Harrelson, incredible.

i couldn't tell if that was real or just woody making a joke

ratz seems kinda snooty

'bars have a bar know-it-all' just the kind of thing a know-it-all would say to get himself installed as bar know-it-all

Staley: I have a son who's almost 19, and I don't think he's ever seen an episode. He asked me recently if it was in black and white. It was like, "Jesus Christ."

The other audience we would lose from the soundtrack is any talking back to the actors during the scene. One night on CHEERS we had a particularly rowdy and vociferous bunch. Diane headed for Sam’s office and they yelled, “DON’T GO THROUGH THAT DOOR, GIRL!!” And my favorite: Diane standing up to Sam and someone screaming, “YOU TELL HIM, BITCH!!!!” Needless to say, that threw off Shelley Long’s timing just a wee bit.

Working class sailor bars were mixed; fancy establishments were de facto segregated

That was what I thought, but the people in that painting don't look working class to me.

ITV4 are showing Cheers from the beginning, starting tonight. Awesome news, I've never seen the first season, at least I don't think I have.

jealous that they're running it in order, the Reelz channel random order reruns are kinda frustrating

intriguing results

Who the hell are all the people at the bottom?

It took serious hindsight to realize that Kirstie Alley was the lesser of the two female leads

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/649/4328cheers18.jpg
http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/8b19903u.preview.jpg

You can see a huge version of the original photo here

Who the hell are all the people at the bottom?

Robin Colcord ... (Roger Rees) 1
- owner of the bar during early Kirstie Alley years, sent Rebecca weak at the knees and brain

Paul Krapence ... (Paul Willson) 1
- barfly who gradually worked his way up to supporting character in last few years

Al ... (Al Rosen) 1
- old man barfly with a squashed hat who dropped zingers in a weathered voice a few times a year.

Harry 'The Hat' Gittes ... (Harry Anderson) 1
- charming flim-flam man who turned up occasionally and ran scams on Cheers folk

Nick Tortelli ... (Dan Hedaya) 1
- sexually magnetic husband / ex-husband of Carla

Kelly Gaines ... (Jackie Swanson) 0
- fiancee of Woody Boyd in later years, subject of touching love ode "Kelly"

Loretta Tortelli ... (Jean Kasem) 0
- human Barbie airhead, post-Carla wife of Nick Tortelli

Eddie LeBec ... (Jay Thomas) 0
- hockey-playing long-running post-Nick love interest of Carla (killed by a zamboni while working as a penguin in an ice show, after the actor complained how onerous it was to have to kiss Rhea Perlman, on breakfast radio)

Esther Clavin ... (Frances Sternhagen) 0
- Cliff's sainted mother, quality bringer of lols

the way nick tortelli pronounces 'loretta' is a thing of majesty.

One of the CBS channels on Sky had the first series on not that long ago, I watched a few of them and they hold up really really well.

Anyway, I'm not saying the drawn pics are fake, but some of them look a bit dubious to me, especially the one seen here at 0:17, where you can see a black guy drinking with middle-class white guys, in a setting that appears to be a late 19th century bar. Weren't bars like this segregated in the US back then?

― Tuomas, Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:37 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL @ Tuomas basic misunderstandings of america

this show rules btw. gonna buy some complete season DVDs right about now

Can someone explain "We Win" ?

I remember reading somewhere on the net that the headline is about the local sport team winning the championship.

Anyway, I'm not saying the drawn pics are fake, but some of them look a bit dubious to me, especially the one seen here at 0:17, where you can see a black guy drinking with middle-class white guys, in a setting that appears to be a late 19th century bar. Weren't bars like this segregated in the US back then?

― Tuomas, Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:37 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL @ Tuomas basic misunderstandings of america

So you're saying bars weren't segregated back then, or what?

many of them weren't.

Thanks, I actually remember Woody's fiancée now

KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY K-E-L-L-Y WHY? BECAUSE SHE'S KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY KELLY

Robin Colcord era was classic

so bummed that on the DVD version of the episode where an imprisoned Robin's picking up trash outside the bar with the other felons, they had to change the music that Sam hassles Rebecca with from I Fought The Law to some generic nonsense.

Can someone explain "We Win" ?

― Mark G, Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:47 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Probably a war.

I was going to say, "probably a war or a World Series win", but lol @ Boston.

For some reason, I thought it was a newspaper calling an election result, wrongly...

maybe the newspaper thought it won the election, and was wrong

Found the answer on a "Cheers" Faq page, hang on..

Where do the photos in the opening credits come from?

The images were taken from old archives of photographs, and then treated to look older. The entire sequence was created by Castle/Bryant/Johnsen, Inc. An original, untreated photograph can be seen here: http://www.shorpy.com/node/7798 The newspaper headline "We win!" refers to the ending of prohibition.

oops. Well, you get it, yeah?

we all win.

there is a shameful lack of nick tortelli clips on youtube

I think I watched an episode of "The Tortellis" when it was on.

Took place in Vegas, that's all I remember of it.

i always assumed WE WIN was like the end of world war ii or something

the kid who played nick & carla's eldest son did a pretty passable dan hedeya impression

super otm

I remember reading somewhere on the net that the headline is about the local sport team winning the championship.

― Tuomas

http://24.media.tumblr.com/OVYpo3Kk4qeuetdjxVniXCEUo1_250.jpg

there is a shameful lack of nick tortelli clips on youtube

― charlie the luna (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:00 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this. my girlfriend didn't even remember him. :( maybe she only saw the woody harrelson seasons.

the episode where he has to pick two of his children out of carla's brood to go to his daughter's wedding is CLASSIC nick

Nick is a great character, and I love how his son started off as a young spunky dude and slowly developed into the Nick type character.

love the bit where carla can't explain to diane what nick's power is and then he basically seduces diane in 10 sec

nick is awesome in "to die for"

i watched an episode recently w/ anthony tortelli chasing after a young sherilyn fenn looking aboslutely ridic

wow

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201210/331ccdca9f0259c1d8f18226352e22f5.jpg

Hedaya was great in Dick.

pretty sure his character is not that far removed from his character as the father in A Night at the Roxbury

I need to watch Blood Simple again, he's so good in that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMQEZLjZlk

watching the season 5 finale right now, it's all the more remarkable the show continued to survive and flourish not just after the Diane departure but after the awful 'flash forward with everyone in old person makeup' gambit

take that back! that episode never fails to choke me up.

oh it's a good episode otherwise, i just hate that kind of thing

so into diane right now

some random cable channel (Reelz i think?) runs 2 Cheers episodes every afternoon, which i've been watching and enjoying the hell out of now and again lately, although it never fails to irritate me that invariably one episode is Diane/Coach era and one is Rebecca/Woody era (i love both eras, just kinda wanna spend time on one or the other and not switch gears halfway through the hour).

― some dude, Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:21 AM (3 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Reelz heard my cries of protest and started airing the show more or less chronologically! been fun watching nothing but season 1 episodes lately (in slightly shuffled order), really helps me appreciate the charms of the Diane/Coach years more than i had before.

they really had shit on point from day 1, it's pretty remarkable

and, and, the point, coach, is that you finally did learn the pledge of allegiance

no, sam, i never learned it

yeah, but uh you respected mr spires for trying to help you

no, i hated his guts, sam

but looking back on it now you respect him for it...

no, no, he died and i was glad he died

irish to remake cheers

darragh for sam, local garda for coach imo

"Woody, would you add up these receipts for me please"
"sure..........there's 8 of 'em"

I prefer smart (or semi-smart) Sam to dumb Sam, but this is too good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxaQ9cKYQXo

I do periodically steal one of dumb Sam's jokes:

"Do you think I'm pedantic?"
Me: "That depends."
"On what?"
Me: "On what 'pedantic' means."

http://www.avclub.com/articles/10-episodes-that-show-how-cheers-stayed-great-for,96297/

Holy crap I never knew about this! Cheers scene inside St Elsewhere scene

http://youtu.be/JhCyXui0e_Q

erm, St Elsehwere scene in the Cheers bar even.

http://www.newsfromme.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cheersmuncie.jpg

yeah that's how it ties into tommy westphal universe and ergo frasier, the 86 celtics, etc

feel like i've gotten dragged into a cornhole

participated in some cornhole just the other day tbh

I've been living in a cornhole
I've been living in a cornhole

woody was a black santa claus...

Watched the ep the other night with Carol Kane as a woman who hooks up with Sam and immediately becomes obsessed with him, and she gives a great weird unhinged performance, really fascinating to watch.

The results for this poll are weird.

I just caught one of the Nick Tortelli episodes. Why is Dan Hedaya doing Pacino in Scarface?

because it funny

Watched the Cassavetes episode of Columbo just last night, always a mindblower that it was directed by Ernie "Coach" Pantusso

itv4 are showing a cheers double bill every weekday @ 7pm.

in chrono order i believe.

only found out last week, so no idea of they started with series 1/coach era, as we are up to the beginning of frasier/lillith relationship.

has been absolutely brilliant seeing it all again through my aged perspective as i get a lot more this time round than i did when i was a young'un.

Cheers is my favourite sitcom, no question. But there's a point early in the rebecca era where sam's constant badgering of her for sex gets pretty indefensibly crepey imo

I like how all the characters on this show are smart and stupid at the same time.

The results for this poll are weird.

How come? I totally agree with the top 5, except that I would put Lilith above Cliff, and Carla above Coach.

I don't know, I'd think for an ensemble show like this the votes would be more spread out. And I think Sam and Diane should be higher since they were the central focus of the show for so long (and Danson and Long are both amazing). Like 3 votes for Sam just seems like contrarianism. Cliff is funny but there's no way he's the best character on the show, especially by a five-vote margin.

I like how all the characters on this show are smart and stupid at the same time.

definitely. i think that's why it was so unusually good at 'class' comedy - diane and frasier look down on sam and the others because they are poor and not educated, but diane and frasier are every bit as dumb (and as smart) as anyone else in the bar. so the joke's (at least) as much on them as sam et al.

i've torrented the whole thing but have not yet begun to rewatch -- but iirc sam was pretty savvy at first and they made him dumber. (beyond diane making him dumber, of course)

everyone got dumber. Rebecca got pathetic, which was amusing at 1st but then just seemed lazy and cartoonish.

uk'rs :

series 6 starts tomorrow on itv4 at 6am.

thank f*ck for a recorder ..

the complete series on dvd was going cheap on amazon (uk) the other day - bought a copy for my brother for his birthday. i bought em as they came out and have NEVER regretted the purchase.

MeTV is running Cheers in the US now, in order. I had never seen the first ep. Did Norm ever get face-down-on-the-bar drunk again?

The first episode is surprisingly good considering the typically shaky quality of pilots. Love the "war is gross" bit, and the discussion of "sweatiest movie ever."

first episode is a textbook brilliant pilot - v subtle exposition, characters nailed in their opening moments, diane's impending cuckolding inevitable but still irresistible.

Just watched the episode "The Boys in the Bar," where Sam's old teammate comes out and Norm, et al fear that Cheers will turn into a gay bar. A few jokes riff on tired stereotypes (show tunes), but for the most part all of the humour is targeted towards the homophones, which strikes me as quite progressive for an American sitcom in 1983. I know that Soap had happened by this point, and Golden Girls--which included several subplots featuring sympathetic queer characters--was only a few years off, but was there really anything else like this happening on television at the time?

Archie Bunker's Place

There was a sympathetically presented transwoman on two eps of All in the Family (and a third where the character was killed in a hate crime, right?).

I also recall supporting characters and or themed episodes of Taxi, The Nancy Walker Show... hmm, there must be a couple more...

the AITF character (who was played by a popular San Francisco cabaret figure):

http://all-in-the-family-tv-show.wikia.com/wiki/Beverly_LaSalle

I had completely forgotten that plotline!

Woah. I definitely gotta be on the lookout for that AITF ep.

Also, there was a Nancy Walker Show?!

short-lived. After Rhoda stopped, she had two failed sitcoms in one season -- TNWS and Blansky's Beauties. On the first she had a gay male aide de camp.

There were recurring Barney Miller characters, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_situation_comedies_with_LGBT_characters

(I was completely unaware of Vincent friggin' Schiavelli's pioneering role)

God, that last Beverly LaSalle ep ;_;

Haven't seen it in eons, but I recall Stapleton's performance being a crusher.

Sam and Diane's breakup at the end of season two is fucking brutal. Like, the allusion will undoubtedly seem ridiculous, but this has to be the closest that an American sitcom ever came toScenes from a Marriage.

totally agree.

and I find their split at the end of season 5 to be really genuinely heartbreaking. "Have a nice life," then the cut to them as pensioners dancing together, chokes me up every single time.

in fact, the whole, 'spend much of the episode in a fantasy sequence that finds sam making peace with domesticity', 'end the episode with the domesticity he's begun to crave being taken from him' conceit is pretty near tragedy in some ways, and that 'have a nice life' is proper tears-of-a-clown brave-facing.

man I forgot all about that

Rewatching the entire series on Netflix now, though I just finished season one last night. I was surprised how satisfying and effective the ending one, even having seen that clip in countless recap shows (obviously at 6 I wasn't watching the original run of that season, think it was season 6 & 7 before I started watching with my dad).

. "Have a nice life," then the cut to them as pensioners dancing together, chokes me up every single time.

agree to the power of whatever ...
you have no idea how hard this scene hit me a few weeks ago.
( i.e. fuck cancer. )
summary : i need buy the complete boxset as itv4 are f*cking up their reshowing of this.

yeah it amazes me how much ITV cut as well. And then replace episodes with fucking darts.

I remember watching the end episodes

My Cheers hating house mate walked in, sat down and reluctantly kept watching. And at the final moment when Sam looks at the painting, I'll never forget the surprise reaction on my mates face and he just went "crikey"

Why does ILX hate Kels?

dark secrets

Republican

is ILX a blue state?

Kels is great as Frasier in Cheers, but the character changes from a pompous ass in a killer social satire to a pompous windbag in a French farce when he gets his own sitcom.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmmexMQIgAE3CiE.jpg

as seen on this gift that keeps on giving: Kelsey Grammer looks like a motherfucker with some dark secrets

brrrrrrrr

ah, for these women the doctor was in

started at the beginning (I don't think I've ever seen all of season 1 before?) and this holds up better than the vast majority of sitcoms I have no interest in watching. It's still formulaic and often stiff but I actually laughed, there's at least several well constructed jokes/lines/gags per episode even if idgaf about whatever "plot" is currently going on

quite progressive for an American sitcom in 1983

also per this I was not surprised that there's a reference/joke to a gay interracial relationship in season 3, but I was kinda surprised that it was resolved by the distraught father realizing he needed to accept his son as he was.

I also started from the beginning recently (thanks, Netflix!). It's so casual and relaxed compared to most other sitcoms from that era. Danson is such a natural and so effortlessly likeable. I think I mostly missed the Coach era the first time around so he's been kind of a pleasant surprise. I can imagine that patronizing Cheers is a chill experience similar to watching Cheers.

it is weirdly inviting and casual, it feels like you are just hanging out there. the setting is so unusual, with this constant milling of background characters (who occasionally come to the fore).

also made me think that this kind of bar basically doesn't exist anymore, nowadays it would be filled with blaring TV screens all over the place

it is weirdly inviting and casual, it feels like you are just hanging out there.

It's almost as if... everybody would know your name.

the setting really liberates it from some of the most constricting sitcom conventions - you're not stuck with a relatively small and fixed set of characters interacting in a small setting (anyone could walk into the bar at any time, after all). People come and go and fade in and out of the show's focus, maybe interjecting themselves into whatever the central conversation is or staying out of it entirely, etc. It's very different from watching a family of four interact in a living room with maybe one walk-on guest character.

And in the fourth episode (I think?) there was actually a very unusual and long tracking shot that backs out of the back room where Diane and Sam are arguing, down the hallway past the bathroom where a couple patrons come out, back into the main room past Norm's seat and down the bar to an entirely different conversation. It was sort of jarring how nakedly cinematic it was, not like a standard sitcom shot at all.

I hear ya.

I mean, there had been other ensemble shows like Andy Griffith or Mary Tyler Moore, but what if you had been able to see Goober Pyle or Gordy Howard in the background of every episode?

http://i.imgur.com/kelAgDu.jpg

It was sort of jarring how nakedly cinematic it was, not like a standard sitcom shot at all.

Now that you mention it, I do remember them occasionally doing stuff like that (wasn't the final shot along similar lines?).

this was in the first season!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChY3IN1UcAA_wR6.jpg

happy may day

The funniest bit on the whole show is the one where Lilith goes on the talk show all glammed out with Frasier and the gang with Diane is watching the show in-between a game at the bar.

Of the earlier episodes, I think the one where they are holding the wake for the ballplayer that Coach knew had died and at the wake they all realize the guy was a bum sleeping with all their wives and bumming money. Coach gets the good punchline to paraphrase something like "Burn him in effigy, forget that let's burn him here in Boston."

Albania
Albania
You border on the Adriatic

god that episode w/ coach and the wake is something else

Albania
You border on the Adriatic

in my head i parse all four-syllable names either like this or like 'armenia (city in the sky)'

the Albania song is running through my head at all times

also, and I've probs said this umpteen times on this thread, but Cheers is my favourite show ever. Maybe Larry Sanders is sharper. Maybe Arrested Development is funnier. But this show pushes every button I could ever want, and its characters are the greatest TV has ever delivered.

My only qualm with the cast (in the midst of season one) is that the female characters are more broadly sitcom-y than I'd prefer. Carla's a little too "why I oughta..." and Diane's a little too "well, actually...". I guess most of the characters are still fairly underformed. Except Sam. Sam felt like a fully-rounded character right from the start.

oh man just got to the "what if Cheers becomes a gay bar?" episode

I have belatedly come to the conclusion that Sam is the best.

xpost

Great episode. Feels progressive for the time, too, as the comedic target is entirely Norm, Cliff, etc. and not the gay characters.

yes the switcheroo reveal at the end is the whole joke (which I saw coming a mile away but whatever)

it is a little creepy to think about how charmingly benign Sam's blatant sexual harassment is portrayed

It's of its era, though later seasons play him less charming and more tragic in this regard. In fact I think he joins a sex addicts' group in the final season?

he is charming! It's just weird in retrospect how Diane - an otherwise outspoken secular humanist lefty type - takes all of his advances with a good-naturedly humorous aversion rather than fear or discomfort or any number of more reasonable responses. Never once does she give any indication about worrying about losing her job because she's refusing the boss's advances, for ex.

like, the inherent power dynamic is never addressed

Obviously the show is no model of workplace sensitivity, but I don't really think that there is anything ever expressed in Diane's character which indicates that she is intimidated or threatened by Sam's advances. And by the time Rebecca comes along--perhaps owing to newer cultural sensitivities (though only the last two seasons occur in the wake of Clarence Thomas, the first time I ever remember hearing the words "sexual harassment"*)--there is, as stevie says, attempts to address his womanizing as a "problem." Plus, with Rebecca being his boss, the dynamic is changed (though Sam's behaviour never would--nor should--still fly in the real world).

Oh, yeah...

*I was like 12 when this happened, so grain of salt, but I don't remember much widespread media discussion of sexual harassment prior to Thomas, unlike afterwards where it was unavoidable.

Never once does she give any indication about worrying about losing her job because she's refusing the boss's advances, for ex.

I think there were a couple of moments where this was hinted at, though not taken too seriously. The season where the pair are on the outs (but obviously about to get back together, either diane's final or penultimate season) it gets played with, but it's clear diane's really just fucking with sam.

the fight they have at the end of the 1st or second season, just before they kiss, where sam says he wants to bounce her off every wall in the office, and diane says he will be walking funny afterwards if he tries it, is properly dark imo.

I don't really think that there is anything ever expressed in Diane's character which indicates that she is intimidated or threatened by Sam's advances

right and this is what I think is sort of odd because who wouldn't be threatened or intimidated by his behavior, no matter how charming? he's her boss

xp

the fight they have at the end of the 1st or second season, just before they kiss, where sam says he wants to bounce her off every wall in the office, and diane says he will be walking funny afterwards if he tries it, is properly dark imo.

yeah this is the end of season 1 (just watched last night) - I think past this point it's clear things are mutual and Sam's behavior from then on isn't really harassment, they both torture each other

Coach was brilliant and I too preferred Diane to Rebecca but both era's were great and they sure struck the jackpot when Woody replaced Coach as we all thought Coach was irreplaceable when he died.

Mark s promised me years ago he'd show me a scan of his Cheers cover story for nme. I need to ask him

magnificent pagan beast

I think past this point it's clear things are mutual and Sam's behavior from then on isn't really harassment, they both torture each other

The power and gender dynamic can be really gross, but I do think this is what makes the show's early seasons so poignant. They're so drawn to each other but they can't stop hurting each other (and themselves). Those first seasons are really a five-act tragedy.

I still get choked when I think of the season 5 finale, Sam bidding farewell to Diane forever (!) and dreaming of their live together as pensioners.

I always thought the finality of that story was kinda poorly justified in-universe, because there's no reason given why Diane can't just come back after she's finished her book. It's framed so that Sam knows Diane won't come back, even if neither of them says it out loud, but the justification for all that seems to come more from the fact that the viewers knew Shelley Long was leaving for good rather than from any explicit or implicit character moment which would confirm this. (Maybe the writers even chose to leave it open-ended, just in case Long might return?) This is why I like the series finale, where Diane does actually come back, because the unexplored theme of the season 5 finale is finally properly explored, when Sam and Diane figure out they don't really work as a long-term couple.

Kelly my darling, you are my sunshine;
When we're together I feel fine.
Your smile is so lovely; your hair is so clean;
You make me feel that the whole world is mine.
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y ...
Why? Because you're

Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
(pause) Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,
Kelly of mine!

(applause)

Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine,
Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine,
... Mine!

I have belatedly come to the conclusion that Sam is the best.

― ewar woowar (or something), Monday, May 2, 2016 4:54 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep

I always thought the finality of that story was kinda poorly justified in-universe, because there's no reason given why Diane can't just come back after she's finished her book.

I think this betrays a complete misunderstanding of what a flighty kook Diane truly is

Sam knows it too. He's just spent a whole season trying to propose to her.

The finale would have worked better if there had been more emotional fallout from Diane's departure. Obviously there were financial repercussions (Sam sinks his boat and loses his bar), but he's processed the loss by the time season 6 starts. Ironically it was Frasier who never really got over the trauma.

Oh, also, I got a kitten last month and named her Lilith

Never once does she give any indication about worrying about losing her job because she's refusing the boss's advances, for ex.

so I take this back, actually. There's an episode in season 2, after Diane and Sam have started going out, where Diane is looking around for another job because Carla is complaining that Sam is favoring her. But after getting a bunch of interviews Diane complains about how every offer comes with "strings attached", sexual advances etc., which turns into an argument between her and Sam about whether or not that's why Sam hired her (which he deftly turns back around to her with the implication that *she* was sizing *him* up as a sexual conquest when she applied for the job). It's all done with the show's usual deft reversals and good humor, was cool to see it brought into the open.

this show really took a dive when Kirstie Alley came on. Way more episodes with standard cliche sitcom plots ("oh no the boss is coming to dinner!", "oh no I'm caught in some outrageous lie, how do I keep up this pretense!" etc.) and without the central Diane/Sam conflict relationship driving things stuff seems to drift. There's still good stuff (Kellykellykellykellykellykelly) but it gets bogged down.

in other news apparently my wife played the CHEERS boardgame last night

Sam gets cartoonish around that time, and the rest of the characters and plots follow suit.

also not a fan of the "look! a smart, confident, takes-no-shit woman for Sam to have to...oh wait no that was just a front, she's a neurotic mess" arc for Ms Howe.

yeah and that revelation takes place within like two episodes of her being on the show

Some of the Rebecca stuff is undeniably goofy, yes, but in a way it is almost a different show once she comes aboard. Or maybe it's own spinoff: once the Sam/Diane plot is over, the show is able to become more about the social group as a kind of extended family, and as we are already comfortable and familiar with these characters by the time this happens, it works. It also allows for what I still think of as a remarkable series finale.

I remember the finale being good but don't feel like slogging through 4 more seasons of Rebecca hijinks to get there. Her series of boss-crushes (Tom Skerritt?! I had totally forgotten about him) is p tiresome.

I think there are a lot of great Kirstie Alley-era episodes, tbh, but yeah, it's about the larger cast by this point.

Sam as the rapping sportscaster (I think that's Kirstie Alley's second episode?) is an awewsome episode. He's like a proto Homer Simpson.

Way more episodes with standard cliche sitcom plots ("oh no the boss is coming to dinner!", "oh no I'm caught in some outrageous lie, how do I keep up this pretense!" etc.)

Rebecca::Frasier, Frasier::Niles, Sam::Roz...

Been watching lots of Allie era episodes lately, currently half through the 10th season

It's interesting to see the 'rise' of the Frasier character, in the tenth season he's almost the central figure in the show.

Frasier drives a lot of storylines, def

Woody's political campaign is a favourite. All of the Woody stuff with Kelly and her family and Jean Paul, in fact. And when Lilith dumps Frasier... And when the bar burns down and Carla gets a job at Mr Pubs.

Rebecca is a lesser character than Diane but I think Kirstie Alley is a sharper comic actor and makes it work.

Woody and Lilith are def shining lights of the post-Long seasons

Glad that Cliff won this btw. I remember when they were playing Monopoly, one of the funniest scenes.

"It all goes back to my eighth grade science fair, everybody else had rabbits and guinea pigs. I had a tapeworm."
"Really?"
"Yeah, so I couldn't go."

I had forgotten that Cliff's mom actually appears onscreen (unlike Vera, iirc?), same actress that played Kyle MacLachlan's WASPy mom on Sex in the City

Vera appeared, except with her face covered in pie or something like that.

And also her legs on the stairway.

IIRC, when Vera's voice was heard or part of her was scene, like in that pie scene, she was played by George Wendt's real-life wife.

"part of her was seen"

Ah, yes!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0083579/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

I've probably mentioned this before, probably in this thread, but when George Wendt was starring in Art in the West End he was a regular figure in the balcony of the Astoria for gigs by passing US noisers and indie-rockers.

yeah his indie rock bonafides are well known

Could never tell if Jackie Swanson (Kelly) doing a great performance of a bad character or a terrible performance of a basic character, or something.

'was' doing

I've wondered for years if it showed how tall George Wendt was in that show. I wound up being an extra in a film that was made at Ardmore studios in the mid 90s where I was in a scene with him and was surprised by quite how large he was. Think he was 6ft plus and I always thought of him as not being that tall from the show.

google says he's only 5'6? maybe he was wearing elevator shoes

was this the film?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Truckers

https://media.timeout.com/images/101645791/320/210/image.jpg

It was indeed.
I think you do see me on the screen for about 30 seconds right at the beginning.

Omg that film is amazingly bad

"Nobody jacks my load!"

He can't be that tall. Here he is with Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armesin

http://i.imgur.com/qBVcPoI.jpg

That's weird I'm somewhere between 5ft 10 and 6ft and thought he was taller.

I was also surprised Dennis Hopper was smaller than I'd assumed.

A bloke I used to know was George Wendt's driver when he was doing this thing and said he was an A+ righteous dude. He never did manage to get him out to the pub with us though.

i didn't like ted danson's acting on cheers. a performance based on a few tics. strange since he's done good things since then.

― Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Friday, August 25, 2017 12:15 PM (three hours ago)

ban abanana

Only to the extent that *every* performance on the show was one based on a few tics. Danson has the richest character to play though--take him out of the show and you are basically left with a series of one-note sketches based on easily recognizable character types--and I thought he always (with a few exceptions, when it was more of a case of the writers letting him down) played it beautifully.

lillith is amazing

Unquestionably. Loved how the only time she laughed was at Cliff's awful stand-up jokes (which no one else laughed at).

The way Danson said "Have a nice life" in the season 5 finale kills me every time

Swanson: I've known Prince for many years—I worked on the "Raspberry Beret" video—and Kirstie and I used to fight about him. He once sent a card (saying) he had penned a song about me, called "Palomino Pleasure Ride."

I want to remake the theme song in a minor key and change the chorus to "Sometimes you wanna go to where nobody knows your name"

"Who the hell are all the people at the bottom?"

Robin Colcord ... (Roger Rees) 1
- owner of the bar during early Kirstie Alley years, sent Rebecca weak at the knees and brain

Paul Krapence ... (Paul Willson) 1
- barfly who gradually worked his way up to supporting character in last few years

About 14 years into my rewatch, and just hit Paul getting a surname: in a Season 10 episode starring Harry Connick Jr as Woody's cousin.

lol - he was in the show from Season 1!

the paul in the earlier seasons is a different character and actor.

this guy:

http://img5.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/k/c/kcb3wr1y223bb3y.jpgl

not this guy:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/cheers/images/d/d9/Paulkrapence.jpg

http://img5.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/k/c/kcb3wr1y223bb3y.jpg

oops fucked up the first link

i always remember the bit where Woody's rehearsing a romantic scene from a play with his female co-star and Kelly walks in on them kissing and immediately and angrily comes to a realization and accuses him of...being in a play behind her back.

right, that's a different character.

Paul Wilson is in Season 1 tho, imdb says: Appeared on Cheers (1982) during its first season as bar patron, Tom, before starting his recurring role of Paul in 1991.

xp

lol who voted for evan drake and robin colcord as best character

kelly gaines and ma claven and eddie lebec all were way better, ditto cliffie's gf played by annie golden formerly of the shirts who didn't make the list

Not even sure that note is accurate, it looks like he was credited as Paul before 1991.

- One for the Road (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- The Guy Can't Help It (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Rebecca Gaines, Rebecca Loses (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- It's Lonely on the Top (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Woody Gets an Election (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Bar Wars VII: The Naked Prey (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- The Bar Manager, the Shrink, His Wife and Her Lover (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Is There a Doctor in the Howe? (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Norm's Big Audit (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Sunday Dinner (1993) ... Paul Krapence
- Feelings... Whoa, Whoa, Whoa (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Do Not Forsake Me, O' My Postman (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- The King of Beers (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- The Beer Is Always Greener (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Heeeeeere's... Cliffy! (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Bar Wars VI: This Time It's for Real (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Rebecca's Lover... Not (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Take Me Out of the Ball Game (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Smotherly Love (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- License to Hill (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- A Diminished Rebecca with a Suspended Cliff (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- One Hugs, the Other Doesn't (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- My Son, My Father (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- No Rest for the Woody (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Don't Shoot... I'm Only the Psychiatrist (1992) ... Paul Krapence
- Go Make (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- I'm Okay, You're Defective (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- A Fine French Whine (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Head Over Hill (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Where Have All the Floorboards Gone? (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Bar Wars V: The Final Judgement (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Unplanned Parenthood (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Ma's Little Maggie (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- The Norm Who Came to Dinner (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Get Your Kicks on Route 666 (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Uncle Sam Wants You (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Home Malone (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Rat Girl (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Carla Loves Clavin (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Crash of the Titans (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- I'm Getting My Act Together and Sticking It in Your Face (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Wedding Bell Blues (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- The Days of Wine and Neuroses (1991) ... Paul Krapence
- Woody Interruptus (1990) ... Paul Krapence
- Norm and Cliff's Excellent Adventure (1990) ... Paul Krapence
- Breaking in Is Hard to Do (1990) ... Paul Krapence
- Ma Always Liked You Better (1990) ... Paul Krapence
- Where Nobody Knows Your Name (1990) ... Paul Krapence
- Tale of Two Cuties (1988) ... Paul
- Tan 'N' Wash (1986) ... Paul
- Money Dearest (1986) ... Paul
- Strange Bedfellows: Part 1 (1986) ... Paul
- Fools and Their Money (1985) ... Paul
- Little Sister, Don't Cha (1983) ... Tom
- Someone Single, Someone Blue (1983) ... Gregg

xp

Maybe someone was really into Robin Colcord also playing the substitute teacher on My So Called Life. xpost

I dreamed of being a daytime bartender because of Cheers and Kicking and Screaming but then it kind of sucks because you end up receiving the deliveries.

Lilith's mother pours scorn on Sam for arriving at Frasier & Lilith's renewal of vows without bringing a gift: "Don't give it a second thought, Mr Trump."

there’s so many trump references in cheers, particularly re: Rebecca

Paul was great! I mentioned him as one of my runners-up way above.

these results are terrible, of course. cliff is barely top-10, if that

ok

Funny you should say that, there Mook, because there have been many anti-Cliff curmudgeons who have also been passionate enough to (a.) draw up a Top 10 list of Cheers characters in their mind AND (2.) be unstable members of society, possibly serial killers. It all goes back to something Oliver Wendall Holmes once said...

hey, thanks pplainy

Inspired by this thread, I’ve started watching from S1E1. It really came out of the gate strong, huh? Ep.1 is a bit languid, with not many real laughs, but by ep. 2, you can already see everyone figuring out the rhythms that would define the show for its whole run. Shelley Long puts so much into Diane — her reactions to everyone else’s lines are perfect and massively expressive. The editing is snappy and has its own personality — I love the way the camera cuts in close & quick for Carla’s snide asides. The final scene just brought a huge grin to my face that didn’t fade for minutes. Where Sam is spinning his yarn about the colour of Diane’s eyes and time just slows down as he settles in and takes all the time he needs to inhabit the lie, and the rest of the world just kind of fades into the background for a while as Diane is drawn in... then bang, she stumbles into the realization, throws up her armour, and drinks her customer’s vodka shot as she turns away... then a perfect beat of Sam’s self-satisfaction, just the way he and the camera both move in that final second — it’s beyond perfect.

In the oral history linked above, Shelley Long comes off as a real-life Diane. I half expected her to throw in a little showoff French as she justified why she was such a royal PITA to everyone else on the show!

Man! Episode 5, the scene between Coach and his daughter. Call me sentimental, but —

All: “You’re sentimental!”

— but I must admit I wept freely.

Then this great transition out of that scene back into the bar, where the camera cuts ahead of Lisa and Coach to Norm trying to light a suit jacket on fire. Sam with a punchline. Beat. Then the climactic confrontation. NICELY DONE.

***

From Wikipedia:

Shelley Long was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana, in 1949.[4] She is the daughter of Ivadine, a school teacher, and Leland Long, who worked in the rubber industry before becoming a teacher.[5] She was active on her high school speech team, competing in the Indiana High School Forensic Association. In 1967, she won the National Forensic League's National Championship in Original Oratory.

In the Cheers biography documentary, co-star Ted Danson ... stated that Long was much more like her character than she would like to admit...

You don’t say!

And in the fourth episode (I think?) there was actually a very unusual and long tracking shot that backs out of the back room where Diane and Sam are arguing, down the hallway past the bathroom where a couple patrons come out, back into the main room past Norm's seat and down the bar to an entirely different conversation. It was sort of jarring how nakedly cinematic it was, not like a standard sitcom shot at all.

― Οὖτις

(and naked lolz at Diane’s uni course, “Practical Feminism,” which gave her the ability to reflexively land a sexual assaulter on his back.)

As a kid I didn't get the full joke of the character of Cliff, because I didn't realize he spouted pure jibberish while trying to sound smart. "Get that man 50 milligrams of cc's!". I thought he was actually smart but was mocked anyway because everyone hates a know-it-all. Kinda like how they did with Frazier.

In the early years he’s just a pub bore who half-knows one thing about a lot of topics. He becomes more of a spurious bloviator as the decade rolls on.

I just finished re-watching up thru season 4 and was surprised how much of his "knowledge" even in the first few seasons was nonsense, ie using $100 words incorrectly, conflating various concepts or historical figures/events, etc.

Also, this time through I found the Sam-Diane thing was grating, was given too much focus, and wasn't believable. Per Wikipedia, there was a lot of contemporaneous criticism along those lines too. I'd never heard of that criticism; only ever heard that the show wasn't doing well in the ratings and Sam-Diane romance saved it from cancellation.

At age 31, Kate Mulgrew had the voice of a 55 yr old east coast patrician. I liked how the writers didn't give her character some major flaw and therefore make Sam's choice between her and Diane an easy one.

Yeah, but he's spinning off the tiny bit of something he almost-remembers, and often getting away with it because the rest of the bar profoundly don't care. By the final seasons he ran out of half-facts a long time ago and p much everyone politely loathes him. It works both as a change in the writing approach and as a genuine character arc, which is really fun.

(I totally fell for it as a kid too! as well as Diane's assessment of herself as an intellectual. Rewatching in my late teens I'd already cottoned on to Cliff from his later, more pathetic version, but Diane's essential delusion was a slow "waaaait a minute" realisation.)

Was it ever explicitly stated or did I just invent it in my head that Diane stays at Cheers as long as she did because it allows her to think of herself as an intellectual. Cause compared to the rest of the ppl there, she is.

I think someone does say that one point, although I'm not sure who

Sam, most likely?

might’ve been sumner?

Ted Danson recently said he felt awkward behind the bar, that it'd be obvious that he didn't really know what he was doing back there, so to mask that he would constantly be polishing shot glasses and doing lil routines with his bar towel. But he's a retired pro athlete who owns a bar...why would he be expected to be a pro bartender?

coulda been Frasier too

feel like the polishing glasses stuff was maybe once 'explained' as a nervous side-effect of being an alcoholic running a bar

Lilith appears 2/3 of the way thru season 4, but in only 1 episode and doesn't reappear until 4th episode of season 5. Is there a backstory to that? I assume she was supposed to only appear in the one episode, but then someone or some ppl thought she was a great foil for Frasier so had her written back in?

that's addressed in the oral history:

Bill Steinkellner: [Cheri and I] wrote the first script that Lilith was in. . She was in a little bit of the first scene, and then she left. The next year came, they said, "Let's get a girlfriend for Frasier."

Bebe Neuwirth (Lilith Sternin): In 1985, I was doing a pre-Broadway run of Sweet Charity [that] started in LA and had four months off before opening on Broadway. So I stayed and tried to rustle up whatever work I could while I was waiting. The first job was on Simon Simon, and the second was Cheers. I don't know that I had seen it. But my parents, who are very smart, very sophisticated, they loved Cheers.

In New York, in musicals, I was playing parts that would never have been described the way Lilith was in the breakdown. [I thought], "What do you mean, 'not so good-looking?'" [laughs] She was kind of drab—hair straight back in a bun, uptight, no sense of humor. The musical stuff I'd go up for was always funny, sexy, tough-as-nails, heart-of-gold characters. So when I first auditioned for Lilith, I really struggled. Then her voice occurred to me in my head, and I started reading it out loud to myself, and it made me laugh. That was her.

feel like the polishing glasses stuff was maybe once 'explained' as a nervous side-effect of being an alcoholic running a bar

genius-level analysis from one of the true scholars of our times iirc

love his constant cutting up of limes when's he's playing the background of a scene too - no-one's ordering G&Ts or V/L/S or whatever, but he's an in-recovery alcoholic in a bar and is keeping his hands busy. same with the completely inappropriate swagger that he brings to swigging from those dinky little water bottles. his swig swag.

― ʘ (sic), Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:32 AM (seven years ago)

Ooh thanks Shakey. I see a link to the oral history posted upthread.

since this image from seven years upthread has linkrotted:

https://i.imgur.com/G4H7wI9.jpg

Does anyone know what the situation is re: rights in the UK? I haven’t seen it since...the early 90s? Maybe earlier? I know it’s on streaming services in the US...

It's was on Channel 4 in the mornings for ages - Diane era - but I think they've reverted to King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond now.

... just checked, it's still on but before King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond.

... so, get up early!

I will!

currently bingeing this in isolation (on series 3 atm). it’s aged incredibly nicely and is as good as it ever was.

yeah me too, crazy thing to me is how dialed in everything was from the first episode! usually sitcoms are a little awkward at first or take time to figure it out, but right from the start they nailed it

I've always been fascinated by how many sitcoms follow that pattern--how different they are when you go back to the first season or first few episodes. Another (and the most prominent, I'd say) exception to the rule: The Larry Sanders Show.

it definitely evolves (especially as Coach dies, Woody and Frasier join, Diane exits, etc), but the standard is fiendishly high from the off

The pilot might be the best first episode of a sitcom ever.

yeah it's remarkably sharp

"is there an Ernie Pantusso here?"
"That's you."
"(to phone) Speaking."

"War is gross."

robin colcord will still be terrible and bad and annoying when you reach him

We got the full 11-season box set as a Christmas present and it's been a godsend the last few weeks. We're also midway through season three and, in the early seasons at least then Diane is far and away the best character.

I'd never really seen the Diane-Coach era before (every Coach gag is just perfectly constructed) but the real revelation has been Danson and Long as a double act.l Their movement and presence and chemistry together is off the scale.

robin colcord will still be terrible and bad and annoying when you reach him

hard disagree. he's a great villain.

as cosmic slop notes way up-thread the first feature i ever wrote for NME (not a cover story tho) was abt the chemistry between danson and long

MATT DC THERE MAY BE SPOILERS AHEAD

I still get choked up thinking about the end of season 5, with Sammy dreaming of what life might have been like if he'd grown old with Diane

Ditto spoilers.

My favourite moment during the whole run was the episode where Rebecca accidentally burned down the bar. I forget exactly how it unfolded, but it looked like she was leaving the bar and Sam forever, and then Sam asked if she wanted her job back. Her response was so funny and emotional.

Also it works because Sam and Diane is a relationship/rivalry of equals but neither side recognises it as such. Mostly because Diane is considerably less smart than she thinks she is and Sam is sharper than both of them think he is.

Roger Rees is amazing as Robin Colcord.

lol right

Shit sorry I put loads of hard returns in there betwixt spoiler and warning but none materialised

(i think you have to put something on the line for it to register after like the second -- a dot or something)
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Also it works because Sam and Diane is a relationship/rivalry of equals but neither side recognises it as such. Mostly because Diane is considerably less smart than she thinks she is and Sam is sharper than both of them think he is.

this is definitely true.

the whole Rebecca-burns-the-bar-down thing is great, and hits the point where the show was pretty much saying "every character in this show is a complete dysfunctional loser except for maybe Woody". The bleakest moment in the series for me is in the episode where Lilith (be still my beating heart) cheats on Fraiser and at the end he professes his love for her and begs her to stay, and she leaves him anyway, and he makes some tragic speech about having embarrassed himself in the bar for a third time that day and Cliffy gives it this breezy "Aw don't worry about it Doc you'll get used to it", and it feels so dark and claustrophobic.

The best thing about the Rebecca-burns-down-the-bar plot is when Carla takes a job at Mr Pubs, and almost doesn't return.

God, I love Cheers.

p yes Mark I think yr right, what a clod I am

the whole arc at the end of s04 with Kate Mulgrew as the politician Sam dates and Diane realising she's in love with him is pretty much the apex of romantic comedy for me.

We're onto Season Four now and a young Audrey Horne just turned up.

Also LILIAN is an amazing character.

The first few seasons are the best but some of the broader stuff later in the show is genius (still <3 Sam as a terrible rapping sports presenter)

feels so dark and claustrophobic.

the ramping up of portraying a grim semi-realistic nature of Cliff's character in the latter years really stands out on rewatch. presumably at the time the writers just thought they were playing his annoyingness for more laughs, but it comes off as a deliberate exposure of a heart of darkness now, in a world where we're used to wider tones in sitcoms.

Does anyone know if there is a good oral history or behind the scenes-type book about this show? I bet that would be worth reading.

https://www.gq.com/story/cheers-oral-history-extended

The headline is justified imo.

Cliffy's a massively bleak character, but the genius of the scriptwriters is that, as dark as he got, he never ceased being funny. Some of the late-period plots - esp Cliffy as stand-up comedian (what's up with that?), Woody and Cliff competing for Ma Clavin's love and his arranged marriage to Maggie - are among the show's best.

Matt do you mean Lillian or Lilith?

This is a great read too https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/cheers-at-25-untold-stories-inside-writers-room-1113428

Stevie - I mean Lillian the middle aged English barmaid who is hot for Sam. One episode character I believe but the actress who played her was a classic British character actor.

Also Nancy Cartwright, who went on to be the voice of Bart Simpson just turned up in an episode.

Wow, never realized that was Sherilyn Fenn. I think Lisa Kudrow's appearance is pretty widely known.

Does anyone know if there is a good oral history or behind the scenes-type book about this show?

A book someone should write. The ones I've read on The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Seinfeld were both excellent.