so so i just started doing this paleo diet thing - feels like it should be bullshit. is it?

idk man although i am def not obese or anything, i am not the healthiest dude on the planet but i eat way too much processed crap out of laziness, and way too few vegetables thx to my ability to buy stuff and then let it spoil so i figured why not try a 30 day run at this? 2 days in and feel good, food is tasty etc, but that makes me feel like this could be some bullshit atkins thing.

note - i am not going whole hog and not drinking, because liquor makes me healthy and strong.

i definitely felt healthier and lost weight, even while boozing, doing this, but i got lazy w/ it

guys, i'm sure i don't need to say it but paleo diet + booze is sort of missing the point.

let's have a look at what you ate for your first two days.

I see what you are saying, but I am pretty sure that McDonald's/tombstone oven pizza/French dip + au gratin potatoes + fancy beer is going to lose out vs paleo + fancy beet but I guess time will tell.

Ha esp if "fancy beet" was true

but fancy beer is no better for body composition than coors light is! i get what you're saying, though.

Oh no I get that, in fact I was kinda doing a wink wink because I am sure that fancy beer is actually worse than coors light tbh

i have mostly quit grains and it feels good man. i thought i needed them to not feel hungry but i do not. however i am never doing the paleo diet because i also like nightshade vegetables and legumes and wine. however nevertheless although i have discovered i love beef after not eating it for like 8 years.

pork is another story but maybe i can work on it

to answer the question i suspect it is partially bullshit

guys, i'm sure i don't need to say it but paleo diet + booze is sort of missing the point.

Diet "fascism" is just the weirdest thing to me. Like, it's possible to loosely (even very loosely) follow the guidelines of a particular diet for the sake of eating a little better. I'm gonna start calling myself a vegan just to see how many heads explode when I eat a cheeseburger.

That said, paleo makes a lot of sense in terms of eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein. I've only ever been an 85% adherist at best, but I definitely felt better once I went that route.

The thing with most diets is that you really have to stay on them in order to keep the weight off; if you go back to old eating habits, you will go back to your old weight

I just started counting the calories of my meals this week and its amazing how much more food you can eat if its low-fat and cooked simply just by that metric alone. Also beer is the devil ;_;

Current goal is to drop 5 lbs and then add in exercise to accelerate the process

Diet "fascism" is just the weirdest thing to me. Like, it's possible to loosely (even very loosely) follow the guidelines of a particular diet for the sake of eating a little better.

This. I've been eating paleo for over seven years but don't have a problem with the occasional drink or whatever when out. What's important is that I'm not buying non-paleo foods at the grocery store every week and having them at home.

McDonald's/tombstone oven pizza/French dip + au gratin potatoes + fancy beer

mmm

i think the paleo diet is an good diet with an incredibly silly rationale tbh

i've been paleo for 4 months now. i dropped about 25lbs while also getting stronger. It takes some time and effort to plan meals and stuff but i really don't see myself eating any other way again. I do allow myself a seldom fancy beer but i'm talking like one bomber maybe twice a month.

The thing with most diets is that you really have to stay on them in order to keep the weight off; if you go back to old eating habits, you will go back to your old weight

i really don't even think of it as a "diet" in the sense of any diet i've ever been on before. It's just become the way i eat now , i don't ever get the feeling like i'm missing something that i have to go back to.

i've not gone paleo but loosely just trying to eat vegan a few times a week, and save meat for a treat, in the last month. have lost about 3/4 of a stone and people already commenting. this is combined with exercise.

never quitting fancy beer tho.

i also cut out refined carbs as far as possible.

apart from fancy beer as mentioned.

i really don't even think of it as a "diet" in the sense of any diet i've ever been on before. It's just become the way i eat now , i don't ever get the feeling like i'm missing something that i have to go back to.

ya carne, that's what I was getting at

I feel like a lot of the evolutionary arguments are somewhere between questionable and bunk, but it's hard to go wrong with "meat/fish plus a metric ass-ton of non-starchy vegetables" as your primary food source.
Strict paleo-ists lose me when they talk about legumes being the devil. I don't like beans but they've been a pretty successful diet staple for mankind and I sincerely doubt you can trace any uptick in obesity to them.

yeah but legumes are like the least exciting thing to not be allowed to eat so it's nbd to me

leg∞mes

I thought the whole anti-beans thing was just because they cause some people gi distress. But, yeah, it seems like bunkum to be anti-beans.

That said, paleo makes a lot of sense in terms of eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein.

Fair enough, but "eliminating processed stuff and eating more lean protein" is not so much "paleo" as "every popular diet regimen since 1970"

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped, it was really too intense for me to stick with tho, but since then ive ate kinda paleoish, rarely any grains or processed sugar, lots of fruit and green vegetables, only dairy i really eat is in tea or coffee and i put butter on things for sure, i use salt but often ill eat a meal w/o adding any, i cheat more often than when i was going hardcare, have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich w/e here or there, prob my biggest deviation is that i eat a lot of fatty meat, i also drink booze and eat pickled foods and legumes, so it p lax compared to the real thing but its a way healthier diet than before i did paleo

empedocles was a proto-paleo anti-bean crazer & he threw himself into mt etna, which may be a salutary tale for the zealots

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped

i ate paleo for a couple months and it was p great i had lots of energy and got ripped, it was really too intense for me to stick with tho, but since then ive ate kinda paleoish, rarely any grains or processed sugar, lots of fruit and green vegetables, only dairy i really eat is in tea or coffee and i put butter on things for sure, i use salt but often ill eat a meal w/o adding any, i cheat more often than when i was going hardcare, have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich w/e here or there, prob my biggest deviation is that i eat a lot of fatty meat, i also drink booze and eat pickled foods and legumes, so it p lax compared to the real thing but its a way healthier diet than before i did paleo

butter and fatty meat are both popular w/ paleo people - unlike Atkins/etc. they're big on fats

x-post - lol

idk I'm inclined to think that paleo is BS but I think that of most fad diets. Eat less, move more. It's not rocket science but it is hard to adhere to.

butter and fatty meat are both popular w/ paleo people - unlike Atkins/etc. they're big on fats

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:27 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

atkins loves fat you can eat all the bacon you want, paleo is lean meats no dairy, tho there are a lot of home brew paleo variants out there, but if you read the book fat is def out

idk I'm inclined to think that paleo is BS but I think that of most fad diets.

― (✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:28 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tautology^

xp: I was gonna say that seemed to be exactly backwards

and eat less move more is all well and good but to deny that the human body reacts differently to different types of food is kinda w/e

xxxxp Yeah, lean meats are stressed in Cordain's book but others state that is unsustanable. I found myself craving hamburger when I was living on chicken and salmon and when I started eating beef etc. again I was much happier.

fuck eating less i feel like i eat a shit ton more on paleo xp

Cordain's book is good on the science but Neanderthin is a better guide to doing this.

at first i did eat more fatty meat to kind help me cope with the lack of carbs, but after a month i really have a good balance of lean meats and more fattier cuts at times.

just eat more fancy beets. you'll feel like a million bucks!

ah, should have said I mostly know paleo from Robb Wolf and the Mark's Daily Apple guy, they're both pretty pro-fat

just eat more fancy beets. you'll feel like a million bucks!

I want to try beet juice, but the only way I can find it locally is at Whole Foods, mixed w/ carrot and ginger for $5/12 oz

yeah i mostly know Robb Wolf stuff

its funny how everyone is allowed their own paleo, i guess the idea re fat is that before agriculture fatty meat and butter did not exist, and then in the book theyll tell you abt the metabolic science behind it

livin in you own private paleo

I want to try beet juice, but the only way I can find it locally is at Whole Foods, mixed w/ carrot and ginger for $5/12 oz

lol - now that you mention it, I remember reading this a while back: http://gawker.com/5929716/all-the-olympic-athletes-are-guzzling-beet-juice

i'm not the type that's gonna cut anything out on a permanent basis but i do think paleo is really, really useful for being mindful of your grain intake vis a vis fruits, vegetables, and lean protein.

juicing is generally considered no cool amongst most contemporary fitness fanatics from what i can tell, tho that may vary if youre a competitive athlete

Just get a juicer, milo. It'll be worth it in the long run. i have afriend who makes all kinds of crazy juices with veg and whatnot and some of them are amazing tonics. She's had this juicer now for at least ten years.

fatty meat existed before agriculture! fish, game meat, etc. Not 80/20 ground beef, I guess, but still fat.

What, besides dairy, is out of a paleo diet? I assume that, even before agriculture, ppl ate certain grains and nuts and fruits as they encountered them else how would we ever have decided to cultivate them?

nuts and fruit are totally paleo jut don't eat too much

That's what I figured. Lots of insects and grubs, too, right?

sure go for it

okay to eat yr neighbours?

i use paleo as a basic foundation for my diet.. but i'm gonna eat beans, quinoa, greek yogurt, steel cut oats, tomatoes and drink booze til i d-i-e

fatty meat existed before agriculture! fish, game meat, etc. Not 80/20 ground beef, I guess, but still fat.

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:03 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it had fat in it but would be described by todays standards as lean meat, there was no marbled rib eye to be had

What, besides dairy, is out of a paleo diet?

This is kind of my sticking point: life without cheese is a misnomer.

Life w/o cheese is nightmarish and I agree with will. I try to keep grains to a relative minimum calorie-wise and have largely shifted away from bleached flours or white rice and have added quinoa, buckwheat, farro but even those in relative moderation. I no longer eat a lot of beef but when I do it's grass-fed and leaner.

thanks for the new dn

may the movement increase and flourish

sandwich or ice cr?m sandwich

yeah the thing we are working with is def not crazy person strict paleo, its called "practical paleo" iirc. frankly anything that gives me an excuse/reason to make lamb dolmas is aok with me.

and yeah i think the "science" behind this is pretty yeah sure whatever, but the food is good and i feel less crappy after i eat, so

no nightshade vegetables?? kinda shit is that

i sort of run on something like this diet by habit anyway. don't much like bread, not much of a sweet tooth.

and yeah i think the "science" behind this is pretty yeah sure whatever

― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:42 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

u shd read the paleo book, i mean u can yeah sure w/e it but there is a lot of science in there, its written by a researcher, the bibliography is like 20 pages long

man school + stress + indolence has completely scuppered my once-decent dietary habits. so much bad cafeteria food, takeout, and chips and shit.

currently in one of those anxiety loops w/r/t "there are important things you need to do with your free time that are actually very important but for god's sake man you have GOT to clean out the fridge and stop ordering pizza"

haha pizza is so good

i have the Paleo For Athletes book, i should read it one of these days

i moved to the country and theres no delivery is the only reason im able to eat healthy at all

been eating paleo roughly 80% of the time since the end of june, lost 20lbs, more to lose on the way, loving it

i have paleo for athletes, the differences are p subtle, its really for putting together a training regimen for like doing a marathon or w/e where youre looking to be super precise, rather than being for someone who just gets a lot of exercise

man school + stress + indolence has completely scuppered my once-decent dietary habits.

man school will do that to you.

diet fads are the weirdest thing

this idea that every 10 years someone has figured out the BEST way for people to eat... it reminds me of parenting books, every 10 years we've FINALLY figured out how to raise children! lol.

*thinks deeply*

were you guys all on the atkins diet ten years ago serious question

nope, the paleo diet is the only one ive ever tried, the thing that attracted me to it is that its mostly popular w/fitness fanatics rather than people who want to lose weight, and i didnt really need to lose weight but i was interested in eating healthier and getting ripped, so there you go

can you smash bricks with your bare hands yet

of course

yeah basically the paleo way of eating goes really well with my workout habits.

juan atkins diet

To be honest, paleo just seems like a dogmatic version of a normal weight-training diet. Pound of kale + whole roast chicken for dinner? Sure. Eliminating carbohydrates is weird to me, though, I don't think that's good for your body. And eliminating nightshades just sounds like insanity.

were you guys all on the atkins diet ten years ago serious question

I still do this in phases from time to time. Paleo is a more common-sense, sustainable 'lifestyle' diet imo, but when I want to shed a few pounds, Atkins + exercise has proven to be the most effective method for me. ymmv obv

To be honest, paleo just seems like a dogmatic version of a normal weight-training diet. Pound of kale + whole roast chicken for dinner? Sure. Eliminating carbohydrates is weird to me, though, I don't think that's good for your body. And eliminating nightshades just sounds like insanity.

― a whiter shade of paleo (Ówen P.), Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you can eat tons of carbs just not starches or refined sugars, as for everyone saying this just seems like common sense, interesting to see how the common sense has changed over the years via the popularity of fad diets, i mean like the us government still recommends a shit ton of starches to this day, although less than they used to

not long ago people thought pasta was super healthy cause it doesnt have any fat!

you can eat tons of carbs

mmmmm sweet potatoes

Oh, OK. My Crossfitting friend told me "no carbs" and I was like "you crazy". He looks good, though. Tough.

personally I just try to observe simple rules (drilled into me primarily from my mom, whose father was this guy) - don't eat any processed shit (transfat, junk food, sodas, mass market meat products, etc.), cook at home, eat a lot of veggies (primarily organic produce from the co-op plus our CSA box), meat a couple times a week. that's pretty much it. I walk a mile a day. I do not have a catchy name or rationale for this diet.

xp

Oh, OK. My Crossfitting friend told me "no carbs" and I was like "you crazy". He looks good, though. Tough.

― a whiter shade of paleo (Ówen P.), Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:22 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well carbs often is just used as shorthand for starches, just also like the sugar in fuit is carbs too

so its not like atkins where youre really going for the metabolic response to eating no carbs at all

yeah atkins is trying to shoot ketosis all the time

i do keep to relativity low carb but that's just me

No I understood paleo to be about monitoring your insulin and so forth.

I can't get behind eating so much meat, myself, nor giving up nightshades or legumes. Plus, the rhetoric like "Mbutu tribes in modern day Papua New Guinea surely subsisted on cassava root and yams so these root vegetables are deemed paleo" infuriates me. Honestly I feel like I have more in common with Ted Nugent's "let's kill something + eat it" style than "let's go to the supermarket and pretend we're cavemen" thing. Not knocking paleo, I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to actually try it out

Also pasta is good for you especially when topped with sauce of nightshade and shaved dairy product, welcome to the 21st century

all that mumbo jumbo is like yeah whatever then you start eating this way and feel great and see results in body composition. that's what sold me on it

You only have to give up nightshades if you're sensitive to them - it's kind of an elimination diet thing.

let's go to the supermarket and pretend we're cavemen

yeah this shit is obnoxious

I clubbed the last person that told me that and stole there fire btw

Paleo strikes me as somewhat different from other fad diets because you don't, strictly speaking, have to be in caloric restriction to eat paleo. It's a lifestyle/diet you can maintain even once you've reached your goal weight (if you want to lose weight) because all it really boils down to is the Michael Pollan line about eating food, mostly plants, etc..

(really, you only have a caloric restriction BECAUSE you're cutting out so many high-calorie/high-carb foods like bread and pasta and milk)

yeah i'd think that paleo/veganism (our resident NNs favorite diets) are more focused on maintenance than they are on "losing weight"

I figure you could skip the mumbo-jumbo and just write the world's shortest diet book:
- eat a solid amount of protein to maintain lean mass
- eat a ton of non-starchy vegetables, mostly greens
- don't drink sugar
- dairy's okay if it doesn't give you the shits, don't drink too much
- bread/rice/etc. in small doses - don't live on the Endless Pasta Bowl, etc.
- fast for a day or two on occasion

^^^

well I dunno about the fasting thing

See I prefer "eat lots of rice and quinoa and ease up on the corn, wheat and potatoes" but I used to be macro/vegan so that's my own bias talking. I think I just have a problem with "lots of meat!" in any diet b/c of processing, sodium, environmental concerns, cruelty, non-sustainability, mercury, nitrates, expense, and that it's such a privileged diet to indulge upon. Boring concerns, yeah zzzzz. Generally I decide what to eat protein-wise by allowing myself a chicken, a fish, a steak and a dozen eggs every week but I like that kind of symmetry. The parable diet.

totally feel you on the meat thing. industrial production of beef is pretty fucking odious.

paleo diet is like this one weird trick to get you to eat unprocessed foods

fast for a day or two on occasion

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:42 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

milo tell me more about fasting

just eat more fancy beets. you'll feel like a million bucks!

― Broney, Pt. 1 (Pillbox), Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:38 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark

Words to live by!

So what do you paleo people eat for breakfast? No fiber cereal or oatmeal?

a live salmon

OP: Mostly bullshit. There's no question that eating less processed food is healthier, and if you're going to eat meat that grass-fed beef is healthier (its higher in n−3 fatty acids). But, overall, a low carb animal protein based diet will kill you.

The argument in Loren Cordain's books (which started the paleo fad over a decade ago) was a lot of hand-waving and few studies. Our paleo ancestors weren't subsisting on a diet of persistance hunting run down antelope. Hunter gatherers get around 60% of their calories from plants, with the exception of the Eskimos, who died young, with lotsa of gout and osteoporosis from eating too much protein. And there's ample evidence that our common ancestor with the common chimp and bonobo got 80% of their calories from plants, the average human has 3 times the number of amylase (starch digesting) gene as chimps (even the Eskimos), so we've likely been cooking tubers and seeds over the campfire for as long as we've controlled fire (400k, maybe 700k years BP). So a evolutionary argument for a mostly animal protein paleo diet would rest on any adaptations we picked up in the window after bipedalism and before fire - a pretty short window considering how long our primate ancestors were eating leaves a fruit.

the thing is, everything will eventually kill you

paleo endorses eat plants and carbs just fyi, you might be thinking of atkins

So what do you paleo people eat for breakfast? No fiber cereal or oatmeal?

― curmudgeon, Monday, September 24, 2012 10:25 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eggs and kale usually, maybe a lil smoked salmon

leafy green (spinach, yam leaves, whatever, steamed) + leftover block of protein (whatever i ate for dinner or pwo meal) . first meal is always mainly protein + fat + leafy green. and the last meal of the day is always prepped with breakfast in mind.

if im really pressed its boiled egg * 3 + block of frozen spinach splashed with olive oil after microwaving

so i am a week in now, and pretty sold on this deal. lost 1.5 pounds, but more importantly the location of that weight seems to be shifting out of ye old beer belly and into like muscles and stuff in a pretty notable way? way more energy, sleeping better, not feeling like i am going to die after i work out, drinking a shit ton more water. and most of the recipes have been awesome (crustless swirled quiche less so) - in particular a laab esan variant made with ground turkey that made me realize that up until now i have been living a lie thx to not having chinese 5 spice in my house.

one quick question - this thing keeps hassling me to replace my soy sauce with coconut aminos, which sounds terrible to me. is it a thing? does it suck?

are you using a specific cookbook or piecing together stuff based on a cornucopia of sources

a specific cookbook that pretty much rules, ks brother who is one of those terrifyingly healthy dudes (hes a physical trainer) tried a bunch of them and recommended it. lemme find a link

one of the things i like abt it is that it has a bunch of 30 day meal plans, and you can go to the website and download complete weekly shopping lists, which is urgent and key for a slack asshole like me that needs to be told what to do wrt feeding myself.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Paleo-Customized-Whole-Foods-Lifestyle/dp/1936608758/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348764484&sr=8-1&keywords=practical+paleo

oh that's pretty awesome, right now we keep having this issue where instead of planning meals we will buy "staples" which then means we end up with a freezer full of catfish for three months

jj can i ask what your workout is?

beercan curls

ha i was gonna say we can have a tedious gym talk over some complex sugar and alcohol beverages sometime

beercan curls a component of course

nothing crazy, long dog walking (which is an upper body workout as well because 110 pounds of dog + a world full of terrible things to smell is an adventure) and the dusty elliptical machine upstairs. prob going to return to doing kettlebell stuff with ks brother after the first month of this, but i dont want to kill myself that way quite yet.

"the HENRY workout"

to be clear, i think my positive results are going to be a little more extreme than most thx to the fact that prior to this i basically ate complete fucking garbage 24/7.

hooray for my weird metabolism, by all rights i should weigh like 300 pounds at this point.

also there are moments of super weird cravings, i was walking through trader joes and there was a little carrot juice sample counter and i was suddenly ravenously interested in drinking like a carton of the stuff, despite not giving two shits abt carrot juice in the preceding 30+ years of my life on this planet.

well carrot juice is the best of all juices so I think that just means your body is readjusting to normal

no way, grapefruit or go home

^ knows what hes talking abt

breakfast = big smoothie: fruit, oils, honey, coconut milk or avocado, eggs.

my absolute hatred of all things avocado that are not named guacamole has been kind of a slight stumbling point wrt this paleo thing actually. "need a snack? why not have half an avocado?" why not fuck you buddy.

they (and eggs) are something I came around to.

so i get the hatred.

avocado with soy sauce is superb.

avocados are fucking delightful

one of the things i like abt it is that it has a bunch of 30 day meal plans, and you can go to the website and download complete weekly shopping lists, which is urgent and key for a slack asshole like me that needs to be told what to do wrt feeding myself.

this is u&k and might get me to purchase said book. like djp, I just sorta buy "stuff" and end up having to chuck things or not having the right ingredients or w/e

btw I wrote that post from the twenty four hour McDonald's that is located INSIDE the hospital

The thing about carrot juice is you don't have to drink a huge glass, a lot of health nut people just have a little cup of it. Then you have your vitamin situation taken care of for the day! If you hate it, it goes down easy...but it isn't that bad!

meanwhile I ate a gigantic fake Asian soup with DUMPLINGS! and bulgogi in it for lunch: 375 calories (allegedly)

oh I also ordered that book because yay shopping lists

the meal planning is a lot of work still. I don't have much time after work and the gym everyday so spending some time on sunday prepping stuff for the week is a must.

that's fine, I spend a good chunk of the weekend watching TV anyway (when I'm not in a rehearsal)

can i ask you guys something? do you already do most of the meal planning/grocery shopping in your household?

Once I get on the recovery path from my current pathology, I need a healthy diet that works for a single person who hates/is ignorant of cooking.

(i was just wondering because i basically do all of the above in my own household as well as prepare all of the meals with the exception of convenience foods like cereal, etc. i'm a total kitchen control freak and a shopping list would actually make my life way more difficult.)

my girl and i very much share the responsibilities so that helps xxp

our paleo ancestors had a life expectancy of roughly 20 years. has that been brought up on this thread yet?

it's about 70/30 her/me right now in terms of shopping; as I stated before, meal planning goes as far as "I can make meals out of these 20 things" aside from maybe one night every other week where my wife actually plans a meal rather than one of us looking in the freezer/refrigerator and saying "hmm what can we build from these components... oh fuck it *orders Indian/Chinese/Thai*"

hm
i think there are systems issues that can help (or hinder) one's adoption of a new diet so i was just wondering; i also don't think that "equality" necessarily = splitting responsibility for cooking/shopping duties down the middle. that can be fun for some people and just totally inefficient for others. also not trying to make any statements about division of household labor. i was just curious about how you all were currently handling the food prep responsibilities.

I need a healthy diet that works for a single person who hates/is ignorant of cooking.

This is me. Salad/steamed veggies plus some meat is easy.

I need a healthy diet that works for a single person who hates/is ignorant of cooking.

i think it depends on your activity level

Yeah, which will be determined by the aftermath of my treatment to some degree.

Guess I will get a steamer and a rice cooker?

our paleo ancestors had a life expectancy of roughly 20 years. has that been brought up on this thread yet?

― the late great, Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:53 PM (15 minutes ago)

nutrition probably factored very low as a cause of that

Morbs, is there an update on yr health that you have shared somewhere?? Wondering if new docs have made themselves at home w some solutions yet.

xxp Saucepan with lid + steaming tray. A crock pot is also useful.

You can use a rice cooker as a steamer! So yes, get one!

xposts

well you won't be making rice in it cuz that shits not paleo

orbit, I don't have a dead-certain diagnosis yet, but soon. Looking like a treatable myeloma.

I'm not likely to stick with any single diet template rigidly for too long, but I'll investigate. Anyone familiar with this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Starts-Food-Discover-Whole30-Unexpected/dp/1936608898

carne asada what's your source?

PHEW that is...a relief? I hope??! Right on, sports fan.

xp i guess you're saying more people die young of preventable causes, but we don't really know what it's like to scale up a paleolithic diet

Not paleo, but similar in many respects and probably more useful from a medical perspective:

Anti-Inflammatory Diet

I would love to plan meals, but I usually come up with my ideas at the supermarket.

damn morbs, take care, hope they get that thing

I've also heard that it was the infection/injury/sabre tooth tiger aspect of paleo man that reduced his life span. If he managed to avoid these catastrophes he could live to 60 or 70. (No source!)

Also, avocado and Balsamic vinegar is even more superb.

^^

xp i guess you're saying more people die young of preventable causes, but we don't really know what it's like to scale up a paleolithic diet

― the late great, Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:30 PM (13 minutes ago)

what i was getting at.

there are actually populations on paleo diets who have never switched, the people were healthy and had low rates of obesity, stroke and heart disease. they had elderly people around but the elderly tend to die a little younger than ours.

i wonder if you could get the same benefit with the low-sodium, low-processed, low-red meat, low-fat andrew weil diet

i think low calorie / don't be sedentary is the way to go

oh I also ordered that book because yay shopping lists

DJP - one note on the shopping list: It doesn't include pantry basics stuff like coconut oil, butter, spices, or fresh herbs. You have to build up the pantry a bit, but it is pretty great to have everything else accounted for. Other than that, it's a great book, the food is almost exclusively delicious and apparently, ilx, jjjusten can cook! like, really well!

Paleo challenge of the day - going to a dumb bridal shower for my not dumb SIL. There will be cupcakes. Shits gettin' real.

another 1.5 pounds, slight double chin is gone, tummy is vanishing at high speeds. feel awesome. on the downside, thx to being committed to following the meal plan to the letter, just spent $26 on lamb chops tonight - yes it is going to be used to make some kalamata/tziki/lamb awesomeness, but next time round that shit is getting subbed out for some other meat.

avg budget per week for every ingredient needed for a fam of 2 eating 3 daily meals seems to be about $140, which is pretty fucking awesome compared to the $$$ i was throwing at half-assed bar food previously.

yeah that sounds about right, budget-wise

also the other thing that is becoming apparent is that this cookbook skimps on spice. prob for some gastrointestinal health reason. that is also getting fixed on round two, as good as the recipes have been so far (altho fuck a shrimp ceviche. actually hated both the shrimp things.) i need some facemelt over here every so often. buffalo chicken lettuce cups seemed much more like a chicken that had heard passingly about buffalo sauce but had blocked it out.

if i took out the lamb purchases in favor of sanely priced meat this would prob be closer to $120 a week. also altho tasty lamb kinda creeps me out.

also, prepare to eat a lot of bacon.

lamb is crazy expensive

yeah i had no idea. $12+ a pound iirc?

well you're sure gonna eat less meat that way

Lamb is my favorite of all meats, but we only do it once or twice a year. It's ridiculous

yeah normally when you see something called "stew meat" you do not expect to cash in your retirement fund to buy it in my up until now experience.

My friend's dad farms sheep and I kind of feel guilty for the lambburgers I consumed without a second thought

DJP - one note on the shopping list: It doesn't include pantry basics stuff like coconut oil, butter, spices, or fresh herbs.

haven't had a chance to read through the book yet so thanks for this heads up; will definitely scan the recipes for staples and add them to the list

There's a "TEDx" talk making the rounds of some doctor named Terry Wahls who claims to have cured her MS using paleo diet. This has led to VERY frustrating arguments, but at the same time, at least what Wahls is promoting amounts to a healthy diet and not snake oil. I find the "paleo" aspect of this diet to be kind of a gimmick, but the system itself is certainly one version of eating very healthy.

http://www.terrywahls.com/about-Terry-Wahls

I think it's also very possible that she believes she cured her MS through diet. It's also not impossible that she did. But it's a little disappointing that a professor of medicine would make this kind of claim with nothing but a single piece of personal anecdotal evidence, especially with a disease as complicated as MS that has been known to go into remission on its own.

And she will tell you all about it, in a series of high-priced books and DVDs

http://www.terrywahls.com/books-dvds-cds

my sister in-law is managing her MS through a v hardcore paleo diet (but she's also on a ton of vitamin supplements so maybe not the same thing), so far it's working. she used to get debilitating headaches every other week, and she's had maybe 2 in the past 6 months. but yeah, I don't know how much of that is just the diet and how much is just MS being v complicated

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ms.html

again, since there doesn't seem to be any doubt that the paleo diet is generally a healthy diet, no reason for her to stop (@VG)

yeah pretty much

my mother in law is on the Gershon diet for her pancreatic cancer, which is about as close to quackery as you can get without being completely insane (and it's kind of insane)

what I have learned from my family members experience with these quackish methods is basically - fuck it, if it works for them & they're happier with it than without it, who cares

which is not to say that I don't think it's all kind of bonkers

there doesn't seem to be any doubt that the paleo diet is generally a healthy diet

it tied for dead last in this list. not that that means it's unhealthy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say there isn't any doubt.

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets?page=3

i think a healthy diet is always going to make your life easier with MS, but afaik there is currently no cure at all for the disease

it's more just managing symptoms, same as you might with any kind of chronic illness; ie you have MS, you will always have MS, but here's a way to live with it and not be a prisoner of it

yeah pretty much

I mean this crazy paleo thing my sister in law is doing works because she has never really cared about food - she'll eat whatever she has to to not have headaches, and if that means there's only 5 things she can eat, she's fine with that. I'd go insane, personally.

I have a friend (VG will know who I'm referring to) who has lost ~ 90 pounds so far by just watching what he's eating and restricting calories. Caloric restriction! What will they come up with next?

:)

There are a great many ways to skin a cat. The paleo in the paleo diet is just a catchy hook, a gimmick. There is no way under the sun for a modern city dweller to eat the actual diet of paleolithic hunter-gatherers. So, in that respect it is all a bunch of bollocks.

However, the real test of any diet is whether it supports overall health and well-being. Afaics, the paleo diet is capable of improving some people's health, maybe just bcz it focuses them on making choices and being aware of what they eat. But, if it works, it works, and I have no problem with that.

^^^

it's just finding a way to eat healthily that works for you personally. i'm losing the pounds at a rate lately and my plan was basically to eat more plants and less meat or carbs, and only have one large meal in a day.

combined with exercise it seems to work a dream. i think it's helped by finding healthier types of food that suit you.

but i dunno, overall real diet change reminds me of giving up smoking. when a day comes that you actually want to do it rather than that you feel you should, it's really easy.

really the only way to live is to figure out what kind of foods you want to eat (when factoring in health and weight, not just taste) and switch to them, then never change. Ever. That's your diet. Being "on a diet" is kind of crap.

Yeah when I said I meant that it was a healthy diet, I meant, like, a person who eats junk and processed food and switches to paleo will be healthier, not that it's the optimal way to lose weight or reduce cholesterol or w/e. And catchiness is good because it helps people remember what to eat and what not to eat. E.g. I always liked Michael Pollan's "eat food, not too much, mostly plants" -- maybe some plants are higher in some nutrient than others or some have too much sugar, but a simple formulation will help you have an overall healthy diet.

eat mcdonalds, not too little, mostly quarter pounders

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/archives/2012/Sep

Hmm.

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/archives/2012/Sep

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/092712/salt-the-wonder-food.gif

salt is my achilles heel i have to say. need to start phasing it out.

That paleo cookbook JJ linked to is pretty interesting. There is a 'staples' shopping list included for you to pre-stock your pantry even though there aren't staples listed w/ each dish.

Would guess that it's easy on the spice because it's aimed at Middle America. Spices are generally looked upon highly as far as health.

do you have any idea how hard it is to get fragrant mastodon powder, though

haha

was reading the anti-inflammatory diet upthread... surely this would be an insane amount of food every day?

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02995/Dr-Weil-Anti-Inflammatory-Food-Pyramid.html

presumably the serving sizes are smaller than what people normally consider a "serving"

seems highly unmanageable to me, like you'd be having tiny bits of so many things. v hard to plan meals and costly/wasteful?

that diet looks delicious

i think there's some day/week misprints

Saw Joel Fuhrman profiled somewhere - he recommends a pound a day of raw vegetables and a pound of cooked. I like greens but I can't imagine putting away a pound of raw veggies a day.

welcome to the poop diet

hey djp, did you give this a shot yet? recipes are 90% great, but imo everything they do with shrimp can be avoided, also it has opened my mind to the possibilities inherent in skirt and flank steak, and opened my mind to squash which up until now has been among my most hated things ever. spaghetti squash is awesome! butternut squash soup is the fucking best! my solution to the spice (or lack thereof) aspect has been to double the amount of pepper recommended most of the time.

what is the logic behind the lack of spice?

If you really want to do a paleo diet you should be ripping raw marrow out of bones and eating root bulbs. Anything less is just dilettantism!

Just not eating processed food is a good fucking thing.

I have not tried this yet, because I am super lazy

also I haven't had a chance to go shopping this week and this weekend I have two rehearsal on Saturday and two rehearsals and a concert on Sunday so I'm likely not going to get the opportunity to really look into this until next week (although I have another concert two weeks from Sunday and another one the Sunday after that)

I bought a big thing of frozen shrimp this weekend so hearing all the shrimp dishes can be skipped is a little ;_;

to be fair, i kind of hate shrimp in general so i maybe should not be trusted wrt that.

the lack of spice thing is prob a nod to the idea that the book also has a lot of stuff for people with gi problems or food intolerance issues and whatever. its def not part of the design in general. as of this morning i am down ten pounds, so the 3 pounds a week sorta steady loss thing seems to be working, i am assuming thats will slow down in about another 5 pounds or so which will be pretty much optimum, then a much slower loss of 5 more pounds and i will be at my lowest weight since uh college?

wow

okay I need to stop procrastinating on this

wtg jjj!

I was curious about the spice thing bc my MIL's weird paleo therapy is very specific about no 'aromatics' - almost zero spices, only a handful of herbs. But I think you're right about the GI problems/food intolerance...seems to me there's a tendency to just advise against it altogether, as a precaution for those who have those kind of problems

Also they make food taste good? And a lot of these lifestyle diets are actually about deprioritizing the taste/luxury of food and making it more of a necessity that you keep v simple?

I was real anxious and lost five pounds last week

xpost I think that's p otm

haha if this diet is supposed to deprioritize the taste and luxury of food, they are definitely failing on that account, because almost all of this stuff tastes awesome. i was fairly concerned for the first few days that i was actually going to gain weight from this because i was always full and satisfied after meals, which seems very undiety to me.

that seems like such BS to me - why make your food taste worse at the cost of virtually 0 calories etc

yeah i mean this particular book basically looks like yer regular food porn cookbook, huge glossy pictures of each meal carefully presented etc, they are def not trying for some sorta hairshirt food punishment vibe. and theres plenty of spice in the sense of sage/basil/oregano/fennel etc, just not as much heat as i prefer. but a)i can see that from the gi side and b)i am a hot sauce guzzling monster, so i might have a higher bar for spice than most. tomorrow we are making jalapeno bison burgers tho, so we'll see how that turns out.

bison burgers! nice!

Man I wish that lamb was less creepy/expensive, because I am not going to lie, the Greek spice lamb chops with house made kalamata tapenade and Greek salad w/avo-tziki we had earlier this week was one of the best things ever.

good lamb makes me tear up a little

That's great, jj! I don't know what your cookbook is like but the ruling out spices/heat and being used for GI issues sounded like the recommended macrobiotic/anti-inflammatory diet. Per my friend who was on it, it takes out all seasonings and spices because they "inflame" the senses or soemthing like that, which iirc translates to "makes you like food and want more."

yeah i dunno if i'm ready for a diet that turns food from an enjoyable thing into a subsistence

ha yeah there was no chance of me going down that road, i love food way too fucking much for that. which makes my years of red baron frozen pizza laziness kind of sad really.

it's a rite of passage; you have to do that to enjoy real food imo

one of the best thing i ever ate was a braised lamb shank. i cannot find them anywhere. need to start breeding ten legged lambs imo.

i would seriously graft a newborn lamb leg onto my sternum and carry it until it is ready to eat but i can't because why, Obamacare won't let me

they sell lamb shanks at my supermarket but you only get like, 2 and they cost $$. Better off just buying spendy lamb roast

a whole leg of lamb I've seen and it is like $60. i guess there is an actual lamb season (in spring?) where prices come down, who knows anymore. never had mutton (nor seen it for sale anywhere) but i'm willing to try anything at this point.

we usually get a shoulder roast, that's not as spendy as a whole leg and you still get a couple of meals out of it at least

...but it's still spendy enough to only make it a once or twice a year thing

Italian sausage and spinach stuffed portabello mushrooms, where have you been all these sad and lonely years?

^ paleo version of how to live. i want to eat that.
is there cheese in the mushrooms - i hope so.

damn that sounds goood

think the lite-spice thing has to do with the low-salt tenets of paleoism

dear butcher at mexican grocery store that talked me into subbing something called "bistec de pulpa" for the flank steak i asked for you were infinitely otm. also i dont know how i lived my life before getting a grill pan as a wedding gift.

that's top round, right? yeah. good slow cooking steak that. iirc it's what they make italian beef sandwiches out of. I think. (could be rong)

anyone got any BLOGS with some good paleo recipes or somethin'???

Oh shit Indian spiced turkey burgers on grilled portabello bun.

Don't know abt paleo blogs, but here's the spice recipe:

2 tbsp onion powder
2 tsp garam Marsala
2 tsp coriander
1 tsp sea salt
1 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp red pepper flakes ( I vote for Thai chili powder here)

Mix 1.5 tablespoons per pound of meat, awesome w/turkey or pork. Grill 6 minutes per side in grill pan. Enjoy your awesome life.

Oh yeah that yields 4.5 tbsp, so you can save it, or make 3 lbs of burgers.

http://paleopot.com/ - I'm going to start browsing here, because I'm lazy and love the crockpot.

i've only made one of these things (goulash) but it was really good http://thedomesticman.com/

I am starting my days these days with "Bulletproof Coffee". .5 L of coffee blended with 2 Tb of coconut oil, 2 Tb of butter.

golly

that'll go through you nice & fast

sorry

i'm gonna do this! i like the idea. i just had a paleo dinner via the thai place. i can live without dairy and beans and rice. pasta i will miss but whatever. i don't really drink booze anymore unless its a special occasion. i like that paleo crockpot site.

i got the seafood dynasty sans rice at the thai place. shrimp, squid, scallops, snow peas, mushrooms, baby corn, cashews, celery, bell peppers, scallions in chili sauce. i already feel like a viking. so yummy.

I am starting my days these days with "Bulletproof Coffee". .5 L of coffee blended with 2 Tb of coconut oil, 2 Tb of butter.

― a funny thing happened on the way to the forum (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:03 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

does the fat like, emulsify into the coffee? sounds like it might be alright tbh - I mean, when you add cream you're just adding fat.

I am starting my days these days with "Bulletproof Coffee". .5 L of coffee blended with 2 Tb of coconut oil, 2 Tb of butter.

i don't understand why?

i mean, does it taste better? is there some paleo-related benefit?

admittedly the first time i tried to imagine this i thought it was made with ground coffee and was a kind of... sludge.

So hard to imagine giving up sandwiches. They've been my go-to lunch since I was in primary school

I think it was humor.

see its funny but i kinda find myself eating cold cuts and lettuce with no bread lately for lunch at the store. i don't have a strong desire for bread like i used to. i don't think i'm allergic to wheat or gluten but it definitely slows me down. same with cereal and rices, etc. the heavy stuff stays heavy with me in my old age. and i reaaaaaaaaaalllllly want to get rid of the forzen/processed stuff as much as possible. i get lazy and make the kids frozen stuff and real food is just so much better and i shouldn't take my old lazy bachelor ways out on them. this will be my new years resolution. although it might have been last year too...

my new year's resolution is to remember which year it is, ay?

man school + stress + indolence has completely scuppered my once-decent dietary habits. so much bad cafeteria food, takeout, and chips and shit.

yeah, man, i'm in the same spot. a lot of this is probably just that i'm getting older and all, but i was 145 lbs, no more no less, through all of my 20s and then suddenly i go back to school, fall into all these bad habits, and now i'm 175. for a dude who is 6'1" that doesn't sound bad but these little stick wrists swinging past a beer belly is kinda nagl + doctors most recommend you avoid heart attacks.

You only have to give up nightshades if you're sensitive to them - it's kind of an elimination diet thing.

jesus thank god because telling me i can't have peppers/chilies you might as well say i can eat nothing but damp playing cards until i suffocate face down in my own tears

Bulletproof Diet and the accompanying coffee drink with which you start your day was created by a self-stylized "biohacker" who has no credentials except "it worked for me and here's the science to back it up". He is a former .com entrepreneur. I don't trust him. But people have told me his diet is amazing. And my former-athlete MD-to-be brother checked it out and said it looks legit. So I've been on it for half a week and I'm going to stick to it and see ~what happens~

Basically it's about eating grass-fed butter, grass-fed and finished beef, lots of leafy greens, and not much else. Avoid all 'mycotoxins'; nothing but the freshest spices and basically black pepper is a no-no.

that doesn't sound like fun. i mean maybe for a day or two it would be fun.

I dunno man for lunch I had a bison sausage and a mass of steamed spinach and ginger topped with modified hollandaise, handful of carrot sticks, it was pretty tops on the 'delicious' scale. (But that's a normal meal for me, minus hollandaise and plus rice.)

The coffee thing is way tastier than it sounds, like it's actually delicious. Today's my fourth day taking it and each day the coffee has been followed by six consecutive hours of productivity, focus and my skin feeling great. I got a boner the first day which was interesting. I don't usually eat a lot of butter and certainly not 2 Tbs of it first thing.

Oh as a note, these are fancy-pants super oils and butters you're supposed to be taking, selon le bio-hacker

Whoops I was going to edit that TMI but you posted too fast, butterfingers

butterbonerz?

xp yeah i looked at that and was very put off by the whole you-need-to-buy-my-special-magic-beans angle w/ the coffee. u should keep it up and report how it works for ya.

also i just went through the hell of quitting coffee so a diet that's all HEY DRINK COFFEE EVERY DAY isn't gonna happen soon

I will report back. I'm trying to get teetotal so these life-immersion diets are hopefully gonna help with that, like 'don't spoil all that hard work, I don't care where that wine is from'

why the prohibition on black pepper?

I bet we could make a billion dollars off of a boner diet

Bulletproof is largely about eliminating mycotoxins (basically, mold) so you're supposed to use lots of fresh herbs, but your spice rack needs to be kept fresh and many spices not at all.

There's an interesting hour-long video that the bio-hacker made, apparently he is writing a book about his research but it's geared primarily toward women's fertility, which is interesting.

I mean sure the guy seems like he might be out to sell some coffee beans but he's far more "open source" about his methods than a P90 X guy or say any local personal trainer. I'm staying as skeptical as possible though

so is paleo pro fatty meat or against?

there seems to be differing opinions here

excited about the prospect of bonercoffee

i'm not gonna worry about coffee. its not a grain or dairy or beans or sugar, etc. so i'm gonna drink it. same with tea. no milk or cream or anything though. or sugar. which is how i like it anyway.

That coffee drink still sounds like a horrible joke to me.

i am going to have to try and make it - it is still defeating my powers of imagination.

doesn't seem any more weird than adding milk/cream to coffee

idk about this 'low-toxin beans' business but all the pictures on GIS seem pretty paleo-table

http://i.imgur.com/xiOb0.jpg

Yeah, I misread the butter/oil quantities and thought there was about as much oil as coffee in there

idk if i did something wrong but the slippery feel of it really hits my gag reflex. despite having quit coffee i had to try it, so this morning i brewed a cup and mixed in some ghee and after nearly throwing up i promptly poured the rest out.

I'm drinking it right now! Feels good, tastes good. Re: "horrible joke" I thought so too, I'm conditioned to never butter my bread at a restaurant or w/e, but a diet rich in coconut oil and/or grain-fed butter is normal for weight-lifters and sherpas the world over

How much are you guys putting in? It's 2 Tbs of each, no? That's a lot but not a lot, it's not a "holy cow something special happens when you put a load of oil into your body" but a "let's start the day off with 60 grams of fat instead of the same in carbohydrates and/or sugars"

maybe I've just resigned myself to feeling awful all the time HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT PALEO MASTERS??

Paleo takes all kinds

http://boards.cannabis.com/medicinal-cannabis-health/107748-does-coffee-affect-your-blood-pressure-boner-while-high-problem.html

god why did I GIs boner coffee

(semi) NSFW http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1jylkgJrh1qa2j1uo1_400.jpg

Wait can someone explain again why butter coffee is preferable to eating food? I honestly don't get it.

the answer is: boners

people, just eat some goddamn fruits and vegetables once in a while. you don't have to go on this butter coffee diet.

i had hardboiled eggs and bananas for breakfast. i feel great!

go on this butter coffee diet if you want boners

let them eat butter coffee

@ La Lechera, it's broken down exhaustively right here http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-your-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morning-too/

I love fruits and veg and wouldn't recommend this diet to anybody just yet. But it's exciting, big dietary changes are fun. I'd never eaten ghee!

I'm not a big meat-eater either, like at all, so I'm learning a lot

(semi) NSFW http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1jylkgJrh1qa2j1uo1_400.jpg

― 乒乓, Sunday, 25 November 2012 12:39 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"semi"

well, i read it. i'm not going to try it because i need something more substantial in my stomach b/c my work is fairly high energy, but generally my breakfasts are fruit and coffee and that is working out just fine for me in general. i am not concerned with losing weight as much as maintaining even levels of energy throughout the day. i'm just always curious what a particular diet offers that i am not already doing/getting from current food intake. i guess the answer is boners.

"go on this butter coffee diet if you want boners"

without being too graphic, ever since i got my cpap machine to correct my sleep apnea i have had uhhhh increased blood flow...

@ La Lechera, aside from the first-time boner I'm not sold on it yet, I'm still dealing with "50% of your calories will come from butter, ghee and coconut oil". I have noticed weird things like a) my skin feels better, esp. around my ankles and wrists, b) my scalp and hair are very different, healthier, c) I feel more focused but I have no way of definitively measuring what "focus" is, except that all tempos feel slow, which is the really weird one.

There haven't been any negative side effects but just you wait, I'm sure my gall bladder will explode sometime soon

I use coconut oil to moisturize from the outside; you're telling me it works from the inside too. That's interesting. Will count that as something worth considering.

I've been using coconut oil for cooking for awhile now, and recently tried it instead of butter on roasted yam - so good. Mr Jaq and I are starting the Whole30 tomorrow, which is pretty much paleo. After 3 solid years of low carb everything, and 8 months of ketogenic (90% of calories from fat), I am so looking forward to some root vegetables and fruit.

paleo diet == my cat would eat these things

wait, can i eat all natural potato chips? seasoned with sea salt?

No white potatoes on the one we're doing, but we can have other veggie chips done with olive oil. Not a lot though.

ooh right veggie chips and olive oil. maybe i'll just make my own. thinking of snacky things i can eat if i go full caveman.

think i might buy some of those snacky dehydrated blueberries and stuff like that to have at the store. to curb my desire for candy. i love candy and cakes and stuff. i have no doubt that i will feel better without flour and wheat and all that. don't know if rice ever made me feel heavy or bad.

Huh, Whole30 looks very similar to bulletproof minus the phobia of mycotoxins. I'm glad to read there are other "ghee is a superfood" diets in the world

Amanda the idea is to get energy (fuel) from fat, not carbs. The fruit is good for you, but the carbs/sugar in fruit can raise some people's insulin too high to actually give them energy (insulin will store the energy in fat cells instead of burning it).

just had more thai seafood and veggies. you know what i'm not really gonna worry about though? sauces and stuff. if i eat elsewhere. i can make up my own thing/diet. i mean my thai food came with a creamy curry kinda sauce and i'm not gonna worry about what was in it. you only live once. that way i don't go crazy. this is all just an elaborate way for me to stop eating ice cream anyway. got a serious habit. since i stopped the booze i went straight down that rocky road to the hard stuff every night.

^yeah. really for me this diet is about giving me something to focus on, just to manufacture some kind of discipline so i can keep from eating so much cafeteria food and mcdonalds and mountain dew and hot cheetos every day. to still be easting really tasty satisfying food and thereby minimizing urges to binge on pizza flavored doritos. pt. 2 of strategy is gf leveraging the guilt to keep me in line.

I am doing a pretty serious elimination LCHF induction on this diet before adding in anything starchy... first few days I felt pretty crappy. Low energy, headachey. Today I feel much better.

i had red grapes and some au natural potato chips and slices of turkey today so far. i'll eat lots of veggies tonight at dinner.

i'm taking tons of supplements these days herbal and otherwise and i don't care if that's anti-caveman either. astragallus, grape seed, rhodiola, st. john's wort, lecithin, vitamin b. since i haven't been drinking i've decided that i want to be REALLY sober and awake. still trying to find an herbal speed pill that is healthy. though i think the rhodiola puts some pep in my step.

are potato chips paleo?
i had no idea...

Peruvian paleo

peruvian neolithic, tbf

paleovian

have no idea. but i saw online that some cavemen say potatoes are okay and some say they aren't okay. i'm with the pro-potato cavemen. but in moderation. cheating with chips but they were all natural and no additives or anything. a little sea salt. like i said i'm making up my own rules but being definite about no sugar/wheat/rice/beans/alcohol.

anti-potato paleos have a problem with spikes in insulin and glycoalkaloids or something and i don't think i have these concerns. if all you ate were potatoes 3 meals a day then yeah that would kinda not be in the spirit. i mean if you are gonna be a pro-sweet potato caveman but not allow regular potatoes that just seems mean to me.

if i were trying to lose a hundred pounds i would lose the potatoes. i'd be happy if i lost 20 pounds and were just generally healthy and felt good. and potatoes always make me feel good...(i mean i had a grapefruit for dessert last night after dinner so i need a little fun.)

i think if you ate nothing but potatoes you might lose 100 lbs.

not the way i can eat potatoes. i think i'm half potato actually.

how many large-ish baked potatoes can you eat in a sitting? my record is about three before i realized this was bad buffet strategy.

i am all-time champion mashed potato eater. and french fry eater. i could definitely polish off 3 baked potatoes. potatoes speak to me. i didn't eat too many last night. i made chicken & veggie stir fry and cut up some potatoes with some olive oil and a little sea salt and threw them in the oven.

I have no idea if I can tolerate potatoes yet. Like I said, in the elimination stage right now where I am eating a very limited selection of foods. Going to add back in starchier veg in a few weeks to see how I react. Based on the fact that I am pretty overweight I am guessing I probably can't tolerate them, though :(

So I thought sweet potatoes had a higher glycemic load than white, but I just checked and they are pretty much equal... !

Reading Anna Karenina and lol'd when its said "Vronsky was trying to keep his weight down, so he was cutting down on sugars and starches."

brillat-savarin's physiology of taste is pretty clear that carbs are the problem too:

"The second of the causes of obesity [after genetic predisposition], is the fact that farinacious and feculaferous matter is the basis of our daily food. We have already said that all animals that live on farinaceous substances become fat; man obeys the common law.

The fecula is more prompt in its action when it is mingled with sugar. Sugar and grease are alike in containing large quantities of hydrogen, and are both inflammable. This combination is the more powerful, from the fact that it flatters the taste, and that we never eat sweet things until the appetite is already satisfied, so that we are forced to court the luxury of eating by every refinement of temptation.

The fecula is not less fattening when in solution, as in beer, and other drinks of the same kind. The nations who indulge the most in them, are those who have the most huge stomachs. Some Parisian families who in 1817 drank beer habitually, because of the dearness of wine, were rewarded by a degree of embonpoint, they would be glad to get rid of."

embonpoint!

you learn a new word everyday.

"feculaferous matter" - Some you don't want to learn!

fecula
feculum
fecula
feculum

chanting in my head like a latin class now thanks a lot ilx

i started doing low-carb, which for me just means cutting out bread, rice, potatoes, pasta. i'm not gonna get too crazy with it, i just want to feel better and give my stomach a rest from some of the irritating things i've been putting into it.

see now if you cut out beans and sugar you would be a total caveman, jbr.

*beats chest*

i feel like beans are kinda the easiest thing in the world for me to live without. i like them and all, but really not much of a burden on me. rice isn't hard either. pasta and bread are obviously the tough ones. and sugary stuff.

I could ditch pasta and bread but need my beans/rice :(

i love beans. i haven't decided about them yet. i bought some hummus today, which is garbanzo beans -- i think i'll allow myself that.

why are beans verboten?

they make you too boisterous

paleos are anti-beans/rice/grains/sugar. maybe cavemen were scared of beans.

They can have a gluten-esque effect on some people similar to grains. They are difficult to digest.

That was worded badly, but yanno.

got it

potatoes speak to me.

yes. I will eat any amount of fries you put in front of me

I'd say if you tolerate beans just eat em. No need to roleplay caveman for unnecessary reasons.

i don't really eat/cook with beans a ton anyway. i probably should more actually for the kiddos. they are a magical fruit after all.

there's a good wikipedia about that

fecula
feculum
fecula
feculum

worst cover of "funiculi funicula" yet

(hello, i like to lurk on this thread while eating a big sack of doritos)

according to this: http://calorielab.com/foods/potatoes/159
you'd need to eat 7 large potatoes or 15 medium potatoes to hit recommended 2000 cals/day.
that just seems like an unfeasible amount of baked potatoes to eat.
maybe if it could be eaten in shake form...

jamba spuds with sour cream boost + chive latte

pork + kale + mashed celeriac/potatoes

i already notice after 2 & a half days without sugar/sweets/wheat/bread/cheese/dairy that things taste better to me. i ate a lot of kale! which i never do. cuz i think the bread/sweet/dairy thing just dulls my palate/tastebuds so much and that's all i end up wanting. i've eaten enough dairy/bread/sugar for ten lifetimes. for real. (maybe its all in my head but it feels real)

That's so interesting, Scott! I don't categorically love sweets to begin with but I've definitely noticed myself enjoying, even craving, bitter/cruciferous things more in recent years, I've said that before. Like kale and broccoli in specific. And the more I eat of those things, the more I love the taste and want to eat more of them.

I had the same thing, like the first thing I noticed was that suddenly raw spinach (which I already liked) was like kind of complex and super tasty. Now that I am a couple months in or so, lots of stuff seems way more interesting tasting. Bacon is sweet! Who knew? Basically my number one takeaway from this is that corn syrup is the goddamn devil.

I completely cut all breads, fruit, sugar from my diet for six weeks and stayed the same weight, experienced no change in mood or energy level, and everything tasted the same to me as it had before. I feel left out!

i've been limiting sweets (made with sugar in all forms, and don't often eat fake sugar stuff either) for over 10 years now - i think i slowly eat a cookie or almond croissant once every two months on average? i did get into ginger candies when i had a cold because mmm ginger, but too sweet blaagh, or have honey in my tea or eat a dessert at a dinner party or have a diet coke (summertime!) - so i'm not a stickler abt it - everything in moderation, right? but all in all, my sugar cravings have pretty much died off and those things taste crazy sweet to the point of unpleasant, so i end up eating small portions. and i really love bitter things! coffee, hoppy beer, the weirder herbal teas and stuff like that. taste changes! it is cool. like, i was a candy fiend in my teens and early 20s! now i don't even understand the point of candy, would never choose it over a buttery sweet baked good or, yes, kale.

xp
i think cutting down on bread, fruits, sugar, rice, etc is a long game for many people. seriously, i think it took me at least five years to stop wanting with all my heart to eat three of every sweet or carby thing at, for example, a potluck or wedding buffet, etc. But for a few years now I really and truly can take it or leave it - still seems unbelievable that i can just shrug off dessert - usually i'm swayed by pure curiosity though, like if someone (or me) has made a fancy cake or pie i've never tried before.

but anyway, yeah, it's hard when/if you see people losing weight or feeling healthier faster than you, but it's just that everyone is different. For me a big part of making changes was really being honest with myself and writing down the whole truth of what i was eating and looking at how i was exercising - then sticking to things when i was feeling okay, and changing things if i was feeling not okay. I still do that. What worked for me as far as not feeling sick all the time (this was in my mid-20s, was all sugar shock or hypoglycemic or whatevs all the time) was really low carb in morning and at lunch ((a few strawberries, for example, or vegetables + protein + fat (almonds, egg, cheese, meat, not all at once necesarily), with low-to-"normal" carbs, protein, fat at dinner. and no booze. and regular exercise. i still do that most of the time. except i do drink beer, though not every day - booze is a hard habit/addiction to break, obv, especially when it's a social thing.

ate too many potatoes as a kid/teen. can't remember the last time i bought them, though i've been into putting sweet potatoes in curry lately.
i do eat poutine on occasion - the best potato form.

To anyone craving sweets, I recommend stacks upon stacks of chocolate of that super dark and organic variety

otm

i think it took me at least five years to stop wanting with all my heart to eat three of every sweet or carby thing at, for example, a potluck or wedding buffet, etc.

btw I didn't have this problem either, I didn't crave carbs while I wasn't eating them, I felt basically the same as I always do.

eephus, are you overweight? You might just be carb tolerant. In which case, nom the bread my friend.

BMI 26, so overweight by about 10 lbs per official statistics. That weight's been roughly stable for about 10 years but my lipid profile has steadily been worsening, which is why I decided to try switching up my diet to see if anything changed -- it didn't.

day 3 and all is well. my diet is definitely not a strict paleo because i haven't given up nightshade vegetables -- i have a tomato/zucchini/chicken sauasage stew slow-cooking in the crockpot right now. but as carbs go, i've been able to keep away. i had some tuna salad and celery for a late breakfast.

i had more slices of turkey for lunch and a ton of bananas. have eaten so many bananas in the last three days. i might eat one or two every couple of months otherwise. also had some cashews. i forgot that paleos don't eat corn. i forgot that corn was a grain! but its cool. i don't need it. have had a 400 tons of corn over the years in various guises. that oughta hold me.

having scallops/broccoli/small potato for dinner.

made blue seal breakfast sausage (chicopee's finest. best hot dogs in the state.) and scrambled eggs.

I think the no nightshade thing is a)another food sensitivity thing and b) bullshit because removing peppers from this is a def no go. I don't think I have had this many bell peppers in my life tbh

every nutritionist in the world will tell you that if you can handle them, peppers are great for you.

http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/the-nutrition-of-a-green-pepper.html#b

i'm gonna eat any veggie/fruit put in front of me. paleo people say go light on fruit but fuck that.

I have a slight sensitivity to nightshades. Not so much tomatoes, but red peppers can put my IBS out of control.

I had friends over for lunch yesterday and made them grass-fed beef sausages on top of a bed of steamed spinach with ginger and a 5 minute egg, Korean-style, with cabbage, roasted sweet potato with zatar, avocado and sliced tomato on the side. I wasn't proselytizey about the diet but they want in.

This is a really crazy diet and I have to take more time to assess the social and financial side of taking it on but so far I am into it.

Well YEAH but that is an INSANELY good meal!!

That's kind of the point of this diet is to eat insanely good food all the time

I suppose! I don't know who has the time, though.

i figure even if i buy better meats/veggies (organic/free range/etc) i'm still gonna be saving a ton by not buying all the crap i used to buy on a daily basis. chips and ice cream and other sweet stuff adds up. plus, we haven't been buying alcohol for months so that right there...

anyhoo, maria is kinda following along on the caveman journey (i'm actually dragging her by her hair hahaha! not really she's into it) and she don't feel so hot! totally different reaction than i've had. she's really spacey and tired and feels a little ill from it. so she's been having a little cheese and some other stuff so as not to shock herself so much. you never know how much wheat and other gunk you eat until you stop eating it.

rufus wants to join in on the fun too but i'm making sure that he gets plenty of everything that he needs. he already loves vegetables so much and will eat pretty much anything. we had ham & eggs for breakfast. and he took some smoked bluefish and carrots and grapes to school for lunch this morning. feel like kids can go wheatless/sugarless easier than adults cuz they haven't had that lifetime of accumulation/addiction. cyrus is a total chip/sweets/cheese addict already at the age of seven and i feel good about bringing healthier stuff home for everyone to eat. i mean he learned it from us, man. already just bringing more nuts and seeds into the house has paid off as cyrus likes that kinda healthy fare.

I mean to cook like THAT. I can understand the whole hard-boiled egg and handful of almonds and raw fruit/veg during the day and a chicken breast + half an avocado for dinner, for instance, but not that glorious feast above.

yeah that spread does make our scallops/broccoli dinner look pretty pitiful. if i had the time i would get more elaborate. probably. i'm kind of a simpleton though.

I make lots of stuff like this! It's mostly a matter of shopping/planning more than cooking, imo.

otm. been doing this for over 6 months and have gotten so much better at meal planning and shopping. it's like no big deal anymore

yeah same. most of the meals get pretty easy to make, and now that i have figured out the utility of having a bunch of pre-made spice blends, it's even easier.

? It didn't take that long! I'd made the cabbage the night before. Cleaning up afterward took longer than the prep, I don't own a dishwasher

The reason I'm "this might get $$$" is because I'm eating so many vegetables, it's really nuts how much you've got to eat when you're not padding it with rice or w/e

yeah one of the hardest habits for me to break is going to be not making a pot of rice with everything i eat

scott, due to the low carbs her body is just going through a transition. she probably needs to up the fat intake. (with low carbs AND low fat your body really doesn't have much energy to get from just protein)

low carb flu iirc

I had it for two days and low sodium was also an issue.

magnesium supplement helps.

so i got a PT job a restaurant making salads back in may. i was working 40-50hr weeks for months on end and as such i usually had a bowl of cereal for breakfast and then ate one of my own salads later down the line. oddly enough, i didn't lose any weight on the scale but dropped from a size 36 to 32, which was a fucking triumph. i hadn't realized it til now, but after work i was still feeling extremely active and was only really sitting for long periods of time when i was on the bus or..in bed.

i've gotten far less hours now that winter has set in (it's a shit time for the restaurant industry, for the most part) and as such don't eat salads near as often. it felt odd the other day buying a sandwich for lunch. noticeably, my feet always fucking hurt now and i spend way more time refusing invitations to go out b/c i just lack the energy to even think myself remotely entertaining company.

anyways, yeah, salad is powerful stuff

A lot of tasty paleo recipes/ideas here: http://www.theclothesmakethegirl.com/

Day 3 of Whole30, not going badly at all. 3 Diet Coke/day habit replaced by coffee with a little vanilla almond milk + chai + water. Meat and roasted sweet potatoes for breakfast, snap peas + cashews for snacks. Fruit choices of red grapefruit, avocado, bosc pears, and honeycrisp apples seem just right.

i have recently introduced a little bit of dairy to my diet. I've never had a problem with lactose so i figured it's okay for me. just like a cup of whole organic grass-fed milk a day.

i put practical paleo on hold at the libary. there are 45 ppl in the queue ahead of me; guess this paleo thing is popular!

JBR, that's not that long of a line! My sis is a librarian, and for something like "50 Shades of Grey," there would be 500+ people in the queue. But still, it is gaining traction!

Costco carries a huge jug of coconut oil (I think it's organic, even) and Kerrygold butter, for all you members! It's pretty much why I still go. Ha.

Our Costco has the Nutiva brand coconut oil for 1/4 the price I've been paying locally - it's great. I bought some coconut manna of the same brand - it's the raw coconut meat ground up really fine and mixed with the oil. Sort of like coconut butter. i think you could make the same stuff by mixing coconut flour with coconut oil. It's pretty tasty on its own, reminds me of shortbread in texture somehow. I've also been topping roasted yams with it. You have to warm it up and mix it for about an hour when you first get it, but if you stir it as it's cooling down it stays mixed (gets hard as a rock though, not spreadable like peanut butter).

We're on day 5 now - starting to really miss cheese. I dreamt about eating a hamburger topped with blue cheese crumbles.

Jaq, do you recall if the coconut manna had any carbs?

just checked for myself on their website, so disregard!

i went ahead and bought that practical paleo cook book, just a few days in now. tonight we're having sausage-stuffed peppers, chard + apple cider vinegar, a sweet potato soup i made--going on a diet rules.

holy shit, executive coffee - a+ !!

really starting to appreciate rich flavors with no sweetness

Been using almond milk in my coffee, but finally read the ingredients this morning - tapioca starch, carrageenan. I'm going to try blending up coconut milk with some vanilla and cinnamon instead. Mr. Jaq decaffeinated himself, but I'm not up for that.

had the best dinner last night -- eggs scrambled with tinga de pollo (chicken in chipotle-tomato sauce) -- and was able to avoid most of the carby stuff the restaurant served with it, including the tortilla chips, the corn tortillas, and the black beans. well, i did have one tortilla chip and a spoonful of beans. otherwise i was good! this is the place, loteria grill.

tonight will be a challenge: i'm going to a bar that serves french dips and pretty much nothing but. i'm looking at ordering the half sandwich and a cup of soup and just not eating the bread.

Arby's, if the stuffed peppers are the practical paleo ones, they are fucking magic

yes and YES

You can cheat on your birthday, any cavewoman would!

oh man my bro-in-law recommended this to me tonight.

i had beer, so i did cheat.

i made tinga de pollo last night for the second time in a month!

my mother is disturbed by my eating habits

so we had rufus's 10th birthday party today here and i already decided that i wasn't gonna worry about holiday eating or special event/big party eating (don't go to many parties) and i had two pieces of pizza and later a piece of birthday cake and i almost immediately felt terrible and my face got hot and my head hurt and i got really sleepy. just like that! i really regretted it. and the cake was unbearably sweet to me. i'm beginning to think more and more that i had some wheat allergy all along and just got used to it. so strange!

I don't know if it's wheat, but sugar definitely does that to me - hot flashes, gut ache, and reflux if I have anything sweet within 4 hours of laying down. And I KNOW it's going to happen but sometimes just don't care, I want that cookie\cake\candied thing (and none have tasted as good as I expect, why do I keep punishing myself?)

On the paleo cooking front, I slow roasted 15 lbs of pork shoulder overnight and my god it was just perfect this morning. 1/2 in the fridge awaiting various treatments for lunches and dinners and 1/2 vacuum sealed up in the freezer. Roasting yams now, which are my current favorite breakfast thing.

now diet coke tastes really sweet to me, to the point where I make other people taste it to make sure it's not the regular kind.

I am still allowing myself the once weekly diet soda. Someday I'll give it up.

Can someone refer me to a non-crazy web site that covers paleo basics? I am scared to just google.

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/10/04/the-beginners-guide-to-the-paleo-diet/

i'm gonna put this here for myself so i remember it:

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/paleo-diet-recipes/

http://www.theclothesmakethegirl.com/paleo-101/

Mr. Jaq commented yesterday that the paleo sites run by men are all mighty hunter-gatherer EAT MEAT and the ones run by women are more about vegetables and balance and enough protein. Not sure about that, but it's possible.

i'm nicer to people now since i started eating this way. even people i don't like or who are tedious. i'm more level. no sugar up and downs. i used to get crankier.

yaay :)

having even blood sugars is an amazing thing.

i did a proper food shop today, instead of my usual piecemeal food shopping. like, i bought two different kinds of meat and several different kinds of vegetables. going to make some fun meat & vegetable dishes of the south-east asian variety. i'm not fully paleo though, i mean, i still often eat a bit of brown rice with curries and things like that. and sushi rolls, so... but i don't eat much wheat at all.

tonight's slow cooker meal is sweet potatoes, black beans, and cut-up chicken thighs. (i'm still wrestling with whether or not beans are ok. right now they are.)

I'm happy with the fact that so much Thai food meets paleo guidelines. Tom ka gai for dinner last night with leftovers today for lunch, getting the ingredients together for holy basil w/pork for later in the week, subscribed to a monthly delivery of coconut milk yesterday.

Jaq, do you use any kind of rice substitute with Thai food?

Not yet, but have been thinking about making faux rice from grated cauliflower!

I've also got some of the weird asian style noodles made of - I don't know what they are made of actually. Some kind of clear stuff that doesn't have carbs. Glucomannan? I'm kind of afraid to try them.

Ooh, I've been looking for those!

sweet potato noodles would qualify if you didn't want to eat rice

Heh, I got them from Amazon of all places (http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Noodle-Shirataki-7-Ounce-Packages/dp/B004CLCEDE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354590273&sr=8-1&keywords=low+carb+noodles)

they sell them on this low-carb site too.

They sell them at the markets I go to and they look mad slimy but maybe they taste better? I'd rather just eat a modest amt of rice but w/e.

i have reduced grain consumption and not replaced it with anything and i feel ok. sweet potatoes and squash are important to me.

i haven't made as much curry as i used to though. when i make curry i want rice. except i made a lamb curry with white potatoes a few times, but white potatoes. i'm not actually on this diet i just felt i needed to eat less of some things.

those noodles might be konjaku, I think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac

Fruit jelly
Konjac can also be made into a popular Asian fruit jelly snack, known variously in the United States as lychee cups (after a typical flavor and Nata de coco cube suspended in the gel) or konjac candy, usually served in bite-sized plastic cups.

ah ah ah I WANT ONE RIGHT NOW

Oh I love those things - I thought they were agar-agar (which I also have a stockpile of)

Ordered!

For right now, while we're doing this Whole30 thing, it's simpler to just not try for substitutes - easier to say no I'm not eating that today to all grain-like foodstuffs. So I'm just adding more vegetables to Thai food, or serving it over broccoli. Or treating pasta sauces (all'amatriciana, which my god I love it like no other, or tuna w/capers) as a thick soup or something to put on eggs. It's working.

I'm also fairly trapped at home right now, so we'll see how I fare in the real world when I get released to drive (on Wednesday I hope) and have to be back in the office.

see i think its a diet that travels well. i like trying to find stuff that is caveman-approved out in the world. its like a game. i look at ingredients and if i see rice flour i bail. i'm out of there. i walk away. and buy, like, an apple or something.

I'm a weakling when it comes to the kind of food that gets left in our common coffee areas at this time of year. Have to tell myself NO! The 30 days is over on xmas, so we've decided that will be a free day and we'll see how we want to proceed afterward. I'm for sticking with this (but it's only been 8 days...)

I have had to turn down so many dinner and lunch and drink invites. This must have been most of my issues with overeating/food/etc.

Scott, I feel like I am WAY NICER, too! And happier, generally.

I am ridiculously energetic - started noticing it yesterday and this morning was happily awake at 5 am. This is not normal.

Not yet, but have been thinking about making faux rice from grated cauliflower!

― Jaq, Monday, December 3, 2012 9:50 PM (Yesterday)

i make this all the time! just roast some cauliflower in the oven for a few. throw in food processor for a couple of pulses and then to the wok for a quick toss with some coconut oil and seasoning of your choice.

I've been keeping on Bulletproof while travelling. I break every other day for some alcohol but have been good otherwise. I have never before had this focus and consistency of "positive mood". It is very, very nice. I am leaving Ireland with four pounds of sweet butter in my suitcase.

yeah i don't do strictly paleo as such but i do avoid all refined carbs now and am eating greens and veg instead, plus a lot more healthy fats, loads of sardines and nuts. i've been steadily losing weight, about a stone and three quarters shed in the last 3 months.

I am hooked on the coffee. I do a tsp of butter, tsp of coconut oil, tbsp of heavy cream. Yum. It's delightful.

do you use the magic beans to make your coffee?

4 pounds away from my high school weight. Holy crap.

okay so I should really do this and not fake it, huh

(btw faking it has lost me about 10 pounds)

Yeah so to put some finite numbers on this, I am abt 6'0, started this at 209, am now at 189. The early mega sugar cravings (re: gallon of carrot juice reaction above) went away after the first few weeks or so. Super sugary stuff is totally gross at this point - not so much pastries or whatever, but stuff like cheap barbecue sauce and tomato sauce. I ended up having some of a friends oven pizza and I thought I was going to hurl.

Like I think for me it's mostly corn syrup? Been drinking natural apple cider and it is delicious despite obv having plenty of naturally occurring sugar in it, but stuff like crappy gravy (thx wedding catering food) is impossible for me to eat. It tastes like somebody dumped a bunch of powdered sugar in it. So weird.

yeah i am close to what i weighed at 18, people are really taken aback. that's with regular exercise too tho.

xpost i find i still get a sort of craving, vaguely, for unhealthy stuff now and again, but before i know what's what i've picked up a salad and a tin of sardines and i then enjoy that.

Wow, jjj - wonder if you're tasting cornstarch in the gravy or something?

i made this last weekend and it was awesome- substituted thighs for breasts and agave nectar for honey (you could actually skip either one and it would be good imo). not sure if chickpeas are paleo tho, if they aren't then i imagine a substitute wouldn't be hard to find. i added carrots.

http://www.food.com/recipe/easy-crock-pot-moroccan-chicken-chickpea-and-apricot-tagine-137530

really dig the combo of turmeric/cinnamon/cayenne/cilantro/cumin

I did paleo-ish a while back and starting losing my beer belly (sugar belly, really) just over a year ago, but then fell majorly off the wagon. Now I'm trying to do it again, but less strictly. Really disappointed that nothing much seems to be happening, - I've lost maybe 1lb or possibly 2 over 3 weeks. I only need to lose 10lbs or so...

By 'less strictly' I mean:

- occasional cheating (like, roughly one non-paleo meal every week), only on social occasions when I don't want to be That Person who can't eat anything that's there, refuses to sample people's lovely potluck offerings, etc.

- don't really know how many carbs a day I'm eating, but I'm guessing 50? (flaxseed meal, for instance) - whereas before it was maybe more like 20? Maybe I should count properly, but I hate counting anything food-related - I just rebel. Which is also why I'm not weighing myself - I just go on tightness of clothes, and they've relaxed a tiny teensy bit but not much.

this diet makes me wanna smoke pot. which is weird cuz i've had an aversion to pot for a long time. maybe just cuz i feel better/healthier? i have no idea. maybe because its a leaf.

i like the idea of being super-sober though. i am taking a mess of supplements. figure it can't hurt. basically i want to become superhuman. my new daily regimen includes: glucosamine, lecithin, astragalus, super b complex, rhodiola, gaba, 5-htp, men power vitamins (which include beta carotene, betaine, bioflavonoids, boron, choline, fatty acid, fiber, glutamic acid, hesperidin, inositol, paba, rutin, and silica)

don't care that cavemen probably didn't have access to boron. i'm a 21st century caveman.

http://www.food.com/recipe/easy-crock-pot-moroccan-chicken-chickpea-and-apricot-tagine-137530

i've made this exact recipe before! i heart tagines.

i have this book on hold at the library -- will pick it up soon and let you know how it is.

http://www.amazon.com/200-Low-Carb-Slow-Cooker-Recipes/dp/1592330762

I've really fallen out with protein, is there a way to go vegeo

animal protein, I mean

no dairy, no soy, no gluten. If you don't eat eggs, I think it would be really difficult.

Nuts though - you can have nuts

do you use the magic beans to make your coffee?

sorry, this probably sounded snarky. i'm just curious if the people loving bulletproof coffee are buying the dude's beans or if the results are entirely a result of (any) coffee + fats.

no soy! that's crazy

nuts don't do it for me insofar as protein's ability to curb yr appetite

I don't know if all paleo cuts out soy - the thing we're doing is no legumes at all.

So we've been eating the coconut manna in big chunks because it is so damn good. I got inspired today and after I softened and mixed up the second jar I had, I dropped it by the tsp onto parchment paper then stuck in the fridge for a few minutes. Perfect little coconut manna cookies, omg. It'll make it easier to melt it over the breakfast yams too.

quinoa's a dece source of protein iirc and it's gluten-free. but it's technically not paleo so

its funny to see all this vegan-friendly stuff in stores that i can't (hypothetically) eat. soy up the ass.

I would love to try this for a little while, so if anyone does find a good veg-paleo plan/site/whatever, do let us know. I want to be super nice to everyone!

Quinoa's a seed, not a grain so I think it technically is paleo. Some paleo people seem to disapprove though. I'm still eating quinoa muesli in the morning anyway

Oh, I am just using regular coffee. I am not buying that dude's magic beans.

i can't really see how/why quinoa should be avoided or could be bad for you.

Yeah I started to get more and more skeptical of The Biohacker when I realized he was also selling pemmican and shaky tables.

Still, I regarded a delicious apple turnover with disgust and swilled down some coconut oil and ghee this morning (no blender at hand) and as unappetizing as it sounds I feel better for it

yeah it seems like the main punch of 'bulletproof coffee' is the coconut oil/butter, not 'mold-free beans grown in a clean room'

In contrast to many other people on this thread I have been gaining weight on this diet. I've been backing it up with daily, short, low-rep high-weight workouts and I'm feeling thick and strong

i haven't really lost much weight. but i feel better so i'm good. i need to exercise more though.

Quinoa's a seed, not a grain so I think it technically is paleo.

i didn't know this! so i guess go nuts, paleo folks.

quinoa has become an obsession for me, it absorbs flavours so well and is really versatile, also it makes bringing healthy lunches to work so easy, i just make a bit more quinoa the night before.

i have started using uncooked quinoa for *crunch* in things and it's good

well things namely an apple crisp which I know is not paleo but all of that is to say there's pretty much nothing you can't put quinoa in, cooked or uncooked

Quinoa's a seed, not a grain so I think it technically is paleo.

But legumes are also seeds, and they're not paleo, are they?

I do not like quinoa and am pretty jazzed I don't have to eat it.

haha

pretty good timing for a paleo food truck as this seems to be gaining in popularity right now

as for the few packaged snacks available most Lara Bars are paleo friendly.

and Jennies coconut macaroons are good for a once in a while treat
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n09uZYKM1qg3pkh.jpg
http://www.deantfraser.com/JenniesCoconutMacaroons1.jpg

they do have some sugar so you cant go too crazy

i've been eating the atkins advantage bars but i want to switch to larabars.

lara ginger snap bars ftw

you can make your own larabars pretty easily if you have a food processor!

i mentioned this once on some other thread and someone made fun of me but here i am mentioning it again

wow those coconut macaroons are so thing-free it makes me wonder if they have any ingredients, lol

ingredients - Unsweetened Sulfite Free Coconut, Organic cane Syrup, Honey & Egg Whites

like i said there is the cane syrup so i have them as special treat but they are good.

i have this book on hold at the library -- will pick it up soon and let you know how it is.

http://www.amazon.com/200-Low-Carb-Slow-Cooker-Recipes/dp/1592330762

it's ok. every other recipe calls for xanthan or guar gum as a thickener though. i'd rather just skip that step and have the recipe be a little watery. is corn starch completely off limits?

Weird they would use xanthan gum, since it's a corn derivative. Guar is pretty cool stuff though - I use it all the time. Just the tiniest bit whisked in and you've got a luscious sauce instead of just juices.

Makes sense though, since it's low carb and not specifically paleo, wasn't thinking about that.

jaq, have you used ultratex?

Nope - going off now to look it up!

Ultratex looks like fun - will have to play with some once we're done with the whole30 thing. Being able to make a creamy custard without milk protein (heavy cream instead of milk once we can have some dairy again) is a project I want to tackle - guar has too much slime and beaniness, arrowroot doesn't provide enough structure

Ran out of coconut milk this morning so used coconut oil in my second cup of coffee - whoa. Stirring really hard isn't close to emulsifying, so a bit of an oil slick on top. Tasted pretty good though.

i just got two teeth pulled so i ain't eating a damn thing. maybe a smoothie...

I got a tooth pulled too, and my blender broke yesterday :( in solidarity, scott!

they wouldn't let me have my teeth. biohazard! they were just in my mouth...

had soup today. having soup now. carrot/coconut. cheated and had some pudding today. but i deserved some pudding. having big teeth yanked out that had been in my head for 40 years was a little traumatic. didn't fill the pain pill prescription they gave me though. feel okay. i have it in reserve just in case.

I got mine, explaining that I've regretted for the last ten years not having got my wisdom teeth! The tooth was a mess so it's in a few pieces. The root is gigantic. Sorry for off topic y'all. Hot and sour soup for me tonight.

yeah one of mine fell apart when they were taking it out and it took some doing to get all the pieces out. oof. very unsettling. i never got my wisdom teeth out and they had been digging into the molars next to them. thus creating a hole in the molars. so, couldn't save them. not that i miss having a root canal or whatever.

i had some mashed potatoes tonight too. i know i know they aren't paleo but i don't care. i know for a fact who my mortal enemies are: corn, sugar, and wheat. i still feel great. even after the teeth i felt great.

break a rule now and again.

personally i allow myself to eat what i like at weekends, though some weekends i'll just health on through to the other side cos i want to.

i could never be paleo. i love corn! corn on the cob (where 80 percent of my corn comes from- ah August in the Midwest) is god's work

i mean, if you feel bad about eating mashed potato, you're doing well imo.

Bought 2 giant jugs of extra light olive oil at Costco and made 3 cups of mayo last night in the KitchenAid to cut the remainder of the batch I made with extra virgin (so horribly bitter!). Making ghee today with 2 lbs of butter - Cooks Illustrated had a short blurb on using the oven to make it: 250 deg F for 2-3 hours. Use a big enough pot.

Also made a creamy salad dressing that was ugly but tasty - 3 tbsp mayo, 1 tbsp balsamic vinegar, 1 tsp mixed italian dried herbs, 1 clove minced garlic.

Sleeping so soundly and feeling so energetic, it's ridiculous.

Jaq, I just looked at Whole30 and it says: 'In addition, no Paleo-ifying dessert or junk food choices. Trying to shove your old, unhealthy diet into a shiny new Whole30 mold will ruin your program faster than you can say, “Paleo pizza.” This means no desserts or junk food made with “approved” ingredients—no coconut-flour pancakes, almond-flour muffins, flourless brownies, or coconut milk ice cream. Don’t try to replicate junk food during your 30 days! That misses the point of the Whole30 entirely.'

Why is that? I do get the feeling it's not good that I'm mainlining almond flour lemon scones, I'll admit.

I think it's their "tough love" stance on only eating minimally processed food or something. I went ahead and bought their book - too many inspirational I-was-soooo-sick-now-I'm-soooo-well saved-my-life anecdotes, but they had to pad out the remaining content somehow. I'm buying the plantain chips and thinking of the coconut butter wafers as shortbread cookies, regardless.

What are their maintenance suggestions for after the 30 days - do you introduce one food back at a time and see what happens?

exactly - start with the thing you most want to add back in, eat some for a day, go back to the restricted diet for 3 days, try the next thing you want to add back on the 5th day, etc etc

We're not going to do that, b\c that 30th day is Christmas and my sister sent me a big box of homemade cookies.

Heh, I should think not.

all those desserts made with “approved” ingredients have sugar or other sweeteners in them though right? i think if you're actually trying to stabilize your blood sugars and/or lose weight and/or feel healthier/sleep better/etc (all of which can go hand in hand obv), you need to cut out all sweeteners and high-glycemic fruit + any fruit juice for a while (30 days or longer), then slowly re-introduce some as non-regular parts of your regular diet. and even then, not really on their own as a snack, just as a small dessert after a meal.

I make stuff with a tiny bit of stevia in (hardly any), but a ton of nut flours. Fruit might be a bigger problem maybe.

Yeah, rrrobyn, they all have honey or something. Looking at the larabars, they might be acceptable (or their homemade equivalent), but too much dried fruit could be a real problem.

I haven't had any fruit except berries in season (and no juice of any kind) for about 3 years, due to eating low-carb and ketogenic, but I ate a hell of a lot of artificial sweeteners. One of the intriguing things for me is the idea that the sweet taste of even artificial stuff triggers a blast of insulin just in case.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Is there evidence that it does?

I think it's still just a theory. But maybe there's a study that ties diet soda to obesity, so conjecture around that sort of evidence?

I reread that bit in the Whole30 about not recreating junk food - it's about breaking habits too, and the idea that the substitute made with approved ingredients just isn't going to be satisfying and so your cravings for it will be increased.

Turned 2 lbs of butter into ghee today - a quart jar of golden deliciousness.

That said, I'm still making rocket shrimp that I have been craving like nobody's business tomorrow - breaded with coconut flour, fried in coconut oil and tossed with a spicy remoulade of homemade mayo, horseradish, and tabasco.

be rite over...

co-sign

hope u have enough to feed ilx

I'll make extra :)

:D

i think you meat-eating paleos would enjoy chowing down on the brisket i'm making tonight (happy latke-free chanukah). the only iffy thing is the tomato paste i basted it with, cuz it's a nightshade vegetable. god, it smells amazing, and i don't even get to dig in for another hour and a half.

So it's not paleo but I don't know where else to put it. I realized that I eat way too much pasta/rice/bread especially when I eat out a lot which I was doing for a while last month so I started just this low carb vegetarian diet thing just to sort of give it a shot and see what happens. Jesus Christ I have never eaten so much cheese in my life. I mean it's basically my favorite food so I'm not exactly complaining but having been fat-phobic since the 90s eating full fat cheese and using butter is the weirdest fucking thing. Last night I made a spinach and boursin/cheddar gratin with fried tomatoes on the side. Tonight it's some sort of spicy baked tofu thing. We'll see.

I have lost 17 lbs!

Damn girl. :)

hsII - that's awesome!! good work!

apparently after a Thanksgiving bounce, I've dropped 10 lbs total since starting my fake paleo diet (ie, I bought the cookbook jjj referenced, flipped through it to see the types of meals they were advocating, then adjusted my eating habits so I was eating stuff 75% similar to the recipes in the book)

this is despite Thanksgiving and living with two enormous bags of Halloween candy over the past 6 weeks

wow, 17 lbs is substantial for sure! you can feel that kind of weight loss. and if you are eating lots of veggies and fruit you know you are losing weight healthily.

my tooth extractions have screwed my whole food thing up. still can't really eat comfortably without getting sore so lots of soups and smoothies. turns out i could probably live on soup though. and my oral surgeon was right about a possible infection. i wanted him to be wrong because i hate taking antiobiotics. but went and got them and pain pills today after all this time.

also, since the teeth have been taken out i have craved dairy like crazy. had a little frozen yogurt and a little ice cream on two occasions. made my mouth feel better anyway. maybe my brain knew i needed a lot of calcium or something. weird.

Of course today is the day when some people at work decide to bring in a giagantic tray of leftover Halloween candy (IN DECEMBER) and some other people bring some trader joes cookies and then there's some party with cake. THANKS A LOT ASSHOLES. On the other hand this avocado is really go so.

people bringing food in to work to share is the biggest killer for me whenever i try to do this - it's perfectly easy/natural for me to go to the grocery store and only buy meat and vegetables and not get tempted by anything else on the shelves but when the food is free and being offered to me i crack

Oh man, I feel for you ENBB - this is my first day back in the office since before Thanksgiving and I am so glad there are no treats just laying around in the coffee areas. Tried to anticipate bringing enough stuff in to keep me from being tempted: ham, avocado, snap peas, grapefruit, caramelized coconut chips.

I am not really tempted my candy. Most of it is gross. However, if someone brought in a delicious pain au chocolat from like a specialty bakery I would really have a moment of sadness. I did tell my sister I feel a bit left out not being able to partake of sweets this Holiday season. We're going to have berries and double cream on Christmas to soothe the pain (with the possibility of 70% dark chocolate drizzled on top).

Jaq, please tell me more about the caramelized coconut chips...

x-post - Oh, I'm totally eating whatever the hell I want on actual Christmas - that's a free day imo. I didn't take anything and I only really wanted to try the TJ cookies because mint chocolate is my favorite but, yeah, people bring stuff in here is hard.

And, yes, I would also like to know more about the toasted coconut chips please.

They are simple! Get some unsweetened flaked coconut (I got Bob's Red Mill), heat up a skillet over medium, put in a tiny bit of coconut oil and a handful of flaked coconut. Stir gently and watch it brown - just takes a few minutes. I did a whole bag a handful at a time, then tossed with some salt while it was warm - it's like popcorn. It would work with shreds too. The little bit of oil helps the tiny crumbs cling together once out of the pan.

oooooh. I think that's my plane snack for Thursday.

holy um yes I am so trying that

These are from The Clothes Make the Girl btw: http://www.theclothesmakethegirl.com/2011/06/13/carmelized-coconut-chips/

I skipped the cinnamon but will add it next time I think.

The thing I find hardest about people brining stuff in is not that I desperately want it, more that I hate having to say 'oh I'm doing a sort of paleo thing...' and get into the negotiations and the 'go on, go on, go on.... '. And I don't want everyone to know that I'm trying to eat a certain way, and therefore have them be aware of whether or not I'm holding myself to my own standards. So I tend to be super-enthusiastic about the food that's been brought, in the hope that no-one notices I haven't eaten any, or I 'take some for later' and then give it to housemates. Or even bin it, which is terrible (I only do that if it wasn't a labour of love).

Anyway, I'm kind of inclined to try the Whole30 after Xmas, because eating paleo-ish is doing nothing for me. It might also help if I took even the tiniest amount of exercise.

I have a dumb question that may have already been addressed itt

What happens AFTER the 30 day period if you do the Whole30. Do you start adding stuff back in?

alllllmost to 30 lbs lost thru (mostly) paleo eating, hit a bit of a plateau late but I'm still inching downard

Yep VG - you try one group, like dairy, one day, go back to the restriction for a few days, try the next thing, etc etc. You can also stay on the stricter template for as long as you want.

interesting.

aside from a bit of dairy and a lot of legumes (and the occasional junk splurge), I already eat a lot of this stuff. Maybe I'll give it a whirl in the new year.

the key for me is totally avoiding sugar, bread and rice. period.

i could do better with avoiding sugar. i had a pink lemonade today. i've been doing GREAT with avoiding bread, potatoes, rice, and pasta tho -- although i let myself have some sweet potatoes recently.

yeah I've been kicking ass at avoiding potatoes and pasta. rice I have a harder time avoiding but I'm down to once a week. and bread maybe twice a week. no white flour anymore, no white rice. I dunno, I feel pretty proud of myself, lol

Mr Veg has vicariously lost a bit of weight too, just by the changes I've made in our meals.

i lied, i have a loaf of gluten-free raisin/pecan bread that i've been having half-slices of occasionally, with some kerrygold butter. i don't particularly like it, but i don't want to throw it out either.

I thought I'd miss cheese the most, but what's getting me more is not having our normal dressings/sauces - no vegetable oils, and they are everywhere. Also, sriracha has sugar ;_;

oh damn that could be a dealbreaker

no sriracha D:

rock climbing is the most fun exercise I've ever done, ljub - I know people who aren't into sports or gym-going often like it too. Challenging for body and brain. And super full-body muscle-building. http://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2011/04/toronto_rock_climbing_gyms/

make your own!

(sriracha)

tell me how to live, homo

(ie YES! I would like to make my own pls show me)

"tell me how to live, homo"

my fave belle & sebastian single, by the way.

xp rrrobyn - I am poorly coordinated but I will think about the climbing. The only thing is, I'm not sure how I would feel about it, because a friend lost her boyfriend in a climbing accident. She was working with me at the time, and I got very involved with the aftermath. But a climbing gym is just a climbing gym so I should consider it!

this is the same thing practically without sugar

http://www.huyfong.com/no_frames/garlic.htm

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/04/homemade-scriracha-sauce-recipe.html

even simpler than making your own sriracha is keeping around jars of prik nam pla (2 parts fish sauce, 1 part chopped birds eye chilis) and prik nam som (same thing, but with white vinegar instead of fish sauce.)

http://www.enjoythaifood.com/condiments.php

had the most delicious duck salad at the thai restaurant tonight. it was just roast duck, cashews, lettuce, cilantro, red onions, and a lemony (lemongrass?) dressing. not spicy. perfect for paleos/low-carbers.

thai is the way to go.

anyone notice you're in a good mood all the time?

I think the constant ups and downs of glucose with high carb consumption makes people cranky and they don't even know it.

I notice it if I have a cup of coffee late in the day, all of a sudden I'm raaaaaaaaaaagh hulk smash for no reason. but yeah the sugar/carb thing definitely adds or added to that, there's no doubt

yeah i talked about the good mood/cranky thing upthread. its remarkable.

I have a friend who pretty much lives on sugar. Like, she has a bagel for breakfast, candy for lunch... and like, YEAH, CANDY FOR 2 OUT OF 3 MEALS. And I am really starting to notice her insane mood swings.

i have too much energy now -- i already have anxiety issues so the extra energy just turns it into hyperactivity.

take some st. john's wort. or some calms forte. or something similar. might help.

anyone notice you're in a good mood all the time?

― homosexual II, Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:05 PM (1 hour ago)

yeah this is a really nice side effect. makes maintaining eating this way really easy and self-motivated as well.

like im at a weight loss point where i could prob get pretty sloppy with this at this point, but i have no reason or desire to. might switch to the athletic performance meal plan from this book because more butternut squash soup, thats why.

Yeah i went the first three months very low carb and no dairy at all. But im lifting weights a lot now so i eat more sweet potatoes, squash and a little whole milk. I've put on a good amount of muscle.

Paleo chocolate chili with garlic mashed cauliflower for dinner from Well Fed. Really tasty.

Has anyone looked into intermittent fasting? I'm going to try it.

The intermittent fast pattern I use is 8pm-noon 2x/wk, so you're basically skipping breakfast Tues and Sat, which works around my Mon/Wed/Fr workout schedule. It's totally doable except that I keep ... forgetting ... to do it. Big note going to be left on the fridge Fri night so I'm not tempted to skip. The pattern I adopted from Lean Gains.

Tried this today - was easier than I expected, maybe due to eating such a hearty dinner.

Coworker handed out caramel corn as a holiday treat this morning. I have a no-go snack food file drawer now.

re: IF, janeane garafolo eats only one meal a day (dinner)
don't know if it's a paleo meal though.

christopher walken is also an (inadvertent?) intermittent faster.

After not being successful at always finding gluten free items when I crave them, I decided to just try the paleo diet. The only problem I see is corn tortillas and corn chips. However, corn tortillas have been looking really shitty since this summer when we were in Del Rio and had really awesome corn tortillas. I have made them a few times since but the whole corn gmo thing festers in the back of my mind. Corn chips have started to taste like cardboard lately too and not something I truly enjoy. So it just feels like the perfect time to go paleo.

Grocery stores and small town USA....all these towns with pop of 80K and below, below....eek! I can tell you horror stories.

its quiet in paleo land. are you all being tempted by christmas treats? I'm not, because I am grossed out by wheat and shit lately. It's all just DOUGH. I sat in a pizza parlor last night and was amazed at how many people were gobbling down flour + water in such high amounts.

frankly i'd enjoy a bowl of pizza topping without the base just as much

homoII I am a fan of yours but I am having trouble reconciling fat acceptance vs. judging other's eating tbh. Not trolling, just not getting it.

Nah she wasn't judging other people's eating, she was saying she's grossed out by dough

Me too, I've started to feel the same way. I absentmindedly put a dolmade in my mouth last week, chewed for a second, felt weird, spit it out. Starches don't have the same appeal no more

I'm still doing Bulletproof. I've decided to drink less coffee than biohacker suggests, but I'm sticking with the big fats. Ghee and MCT in the morning, some coconut oil in the afternoon. Enormous amounts of leafy greens, an egg a day, and two servings of red meat.

This past week, my hunger levels have been very strange. I don't feel like eating big meals. I'll grill a fish or something and heap spinach and kale and cabbage and cauliflower all over the plate, but then graze on it for four hours. It's very strange.

see "grossed out by dough" is the exact expression that a fat-hater might use

I don't know why you're pursuing this line of inquiry

because, as I said, I am trying to reconcile homo's fat embracement and "wtf u eating fool" judgement

judging the sin not the sinner ime

i don't read that post that way at all
also people including me eat gross stuff and it's gross \(o_o)/

is it?

doing paleo is just about eating high quality foods and feeling better as a result mayne

yeah like subway is gross and i have disdain for people who enjoy it

well, i'm sleeping noticeably better but no idea if i've lost any weight or anything. regardless i am eating tons of delicious food. tonight i made one from the practical paleo book with crusted pork loins on a bed of parsnips, orange slices, pomegranate seeds, and onions. holy shit. with a side of roasted beets and anise. holy fuck.

^^ gets it

also i'm guzzling coconut milk like nobody's business. how did i live without u

re: dough, my buddy is starting up a cookie company and I suggested he tap into the paleo market
but chocolate chip meat puck was the only idea we could come up with.

since when are beans and whole grains not high quality foods

since when is judging people about what they put in their mouths any less stupid than judging them about how they look or any other stupid thing

I'm for shaming bad consumer choices because they have public consequences,
But on the other hand fried dough is kind of universally delicious.

Idk about anybody else, but I don't give a shit abt what other people eat. That doesn't change that a lot of stuff I used to dig seems gross to me now.

I found ghee, finally, I'm looking forward to cooking with it

Ghee is easy to make. Put butter in a pot and cook in a 250 deg oven for 2-3 hours. Until the solids have turned brown and settled to the bottom. Ladle the oil off into a clean jar, or strain through cheesecloth so none of the solids get saved.

As for eating this way, I'm enjoying it and feeling healthier. Despite all the flack I'm getting from coworkers who also had lots to say about my nothing but cheese and diet coke lunches. Beans and whole grains make me feel like crap. YMMV.

Btw, 2 lbs of butter makes a quart of ghee.

I think I kinda was judging how gross dough is? You're really reaching here. I don't give a rip if other people eat it! So I can't be into fat acceptance and yet think grains aren't good for me?

I'm also trying to help ppl out who may be feeling kinda left out this time of year by pointing out that it's just DOUGH, which sounds gross. I'm like the most innocuous poster to be calling out on ilx, too. Btw.

i wish i thought dough was gross! i caved and had a slice of pizza last night -- the choir director bought us a pie from one of my favorite places and i was starving. i went back on track today.

raw dough is pretty gross, but some magic happens when it's buttered and fried. are there any paleo dough substitutes? the vegan/gluten-free things we've tried were just awful.

I can kinda see how my post seemed slightly judgey now, but I really wasn't thinking anyone eating said dough is gross. The dough is just gross to me now that I've started thinking it as merely flour and water. Have I said 'dough' enough times? It's starting to look weird to me.

Involves dairy, but my sis has made a fake bread involving cream cheese, eggs and psyllium husk. It's kinda flaky like a croissant.

Mr. Jaq and I have declared a week of eating whatever we want from Christmas to New Years - I read the list of things we think we want and think we are going to feel awful for a month if we eat all that. Then I look at it and realize: there's no sweets on there at all. That's kind of shocking, knowing us.

I'm working on talking my diabetic father into trying veggie smoothies with protein powder instead of waffles in the morning. Hoping I can shift him to more paleo stuff after that

oh! actually the gluten-free banana waffles from trader joe's are pretty decent (if bananas are paleo, that is)

bananas are not good for diabetics but don't know about tj's concoction

apologies for being cranky, homoII. It occurred to me that duh, this thread is just not up my alley, so I should stop being a dummy and just remove the bookmark!

i had ham for dessert last night.

yeah if you're not into meat and/or are a veg I could see where this thread would be infuriating!!

did anyone have gastrointestinal issues prior to paleo? I have had IBS ever since I had my gallbladder removed in 2000. It seems to be completely gone now, which is awesome.

It occurred to me that duh, this thread is just not up my alley, so I should stop being a dummy and just remove the bookmark
I did the same thing -- it was making me totally neurotic!

I came in just to say that and also because I am avoiding calculating my final grades.

Thinking about trying this for at least 30 days post holidays. I've been sort of trending this way anyway as my wife always feels sort of wrecked after eating a lot of wheat, but I'd like to see what happens if I fully commit.

I think I'm going to miss rice quite a bit as I eat a ton of stir fries, curries, and soups with rice noodles. Also breakfast sort of freaks me out - probably 75% of the time I eat granola with yogurt or multigrain bread with peanut butter. I think I'm going to get tired of eggs pretty quick.

We've been eating these muffin-shaped things for breakfast that are mostly spinach/kale with some meat and egg and spices. Like a spinach-heavy meatloaf. plus roasted yams, which I make a lot of on the weekend and we scoop out and reheat during the week. I don't like eggs so much, especially not every day.

i don't think i can do this and get enough protein because i don't want to eat meat 3x/day. i eat greek yogurt a lot. which i don't even always like because it's too thick. but i have been eating a lot less bread, almost none. and less beans. i don't miss those things. i did eat some rice this week. my feeling hungry all the time problems are basically gone unless i have reason to be hungry. before i would eat a ton of whole grains for breakfast and be hungry in like an hour. same with brown rice at lunch. i don't always have to eat breakfast anymore and it's fine.

i feel better eating more fat and less carbs basically but i'm not paleoing

also a sweet potato with coconut milk poured over it = kewl

I eat lots of eggs. Also lots of salmon. Lots of salads. I think this is a nice, simple way of eating. The only thing that is a pain in the ass is eating out in a restaurant.

Also why is sugar IN EVERYTHING. It starts to get really obnoxious!

Shopping and there was some crying baby and I totally caved and pulled into a Brioche Dorée and ate a whole creme brûlée, happy holidays. Haven't eaten proper sugar in, damn, at least a month. Tasted totally awesome.

one downside to all of this is that i have to figure out how to have my wedding ring resized i think

Use your middle finger instead