also just going to go ahead and have a Captain America: The Winter Soldier thread

Yay, boo, or whatever. Rumor roundup at io9 today:

--

The latest casting rumor is that the female lead is indeeed Peggy Carter's 21st century relation Sharon Carter, but the person in the lead for the role isn't any of the five names previously rumored. Instead, the main contender for the role is reportedly Scott Pilgrim and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter's Mary Elizabeth Winstead. The other five contenders — Teresa Palmer, Imogen Poots, Emilia Clarke, Jessica Brown-Findley, and Alison Brie — were reportedly due to screen test, all with British accents (Brie is the only American of the bunch, and she's done a passable British accent in previous stuff like The Five Year Engagement). Anyway, if Winstead does take the role, Marvel Studios would reportedly forego screen-testing the other actresses. It's not clear if Winstead would be required to do a British accent for the role, or if they would just make Sharon Carter American — again, assuming that any of this is true.

In further casting news, Marvel is reportedly looking to cast two "physical" male roles, one American and one foreign. The two names linked to these parts so far are Lost's Josh Holloway and Game of Thrones actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, with the former presumably up for the American and the latter up for the foreigner. Another name linked to this part of the casting process is Real Steel's Kevin Durand.

Although the Red Skull didn't definitely die in the last Captain America movie — and hell, he's come back from way worse than that in the comics — actor Hugo Weaving says he doubts the character will return, his standard multi-picture deal notwithstanding. Here's his refreshingly honest assessment of where things stand:

I did that for Captain America. I think the tendency, with those films, would be to probably not bring a villain back. They might for The Avengers, but I didn't think I'd be in Captain America 2 or 3. I don't think Red Skull will be there. And it's not something I would want to do again. I'm glad I did it. I did sign up for a number of pictures and I suppose, contractually, I would be obliged to, if they forced me to, but they wouldn't want to force someone to do it, if they didn't want to. I think I've done my dash with that sort of film.

And if you think that's a bit on the brutally honest side, check out the rest of the interview, in which he says he hasn't yet been asked back for Transformers 4 and explains why he really doesn't care either way.

Like "The Avengers," this is going to be shooting in Cleveland. Maybe I'll see if I can be an extra.

I do believe you should do this.

An English Sharon Carter just seems .. odd.

Actually, particularly if she's a brunette, it sounds closer to That Other Avengers.

I really liked the first movie. I still don't know wth Marvel was thinking in hiring the Russo brothers for this. I don't see it having a comedic tone, especially if they're doing the Winter Soldier story.

of course the real big Marvel news this week is that ANT-MAN has a release date. November 6 2015, mark it in your calendars

Oh don't think I missed that:

We got Ant-Man movie

I don't see it having a comedic tone, especially if they're doing the Winter Soldier story.

*begin scene*

FURY: ...and it's called Starbucks, Cap.

CAPTAIN: Yes, but I have to ask...

*wacky confusion over latte orders, BUCKY as Winter Soldier crashes through window, slips on scone while swearing in Russian*

Shooting schedule for Cleveland announced yesterday, and they're closing a major thoroughfare, the West Shoreway (which leads from downtown to the near-west 'burbs) for nearly a month:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8292/shorewayclosing.png

Schedule runs from May 18 - June 14. One day, May 23, is scheduled for the street and park right next to my office, plus Cleveland City Hall.

Concept art just posted:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/931151_574289305935314_1581081135_n.jpg

Some Feige ramble:

Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow and Jackson’s Nick Fury return for major roles in this installment, with Anthony Mackie joining the superhero squad as the high-flying hero Falcon, and Robert Redford playing S.H.I.E.L.D veteran Alexander Pierce.

His participation was part of paying homage to the ‘70s thriller vibe. “I had my first meeting with Robert Redford, and he had read the script and he goes, ‘You know I did a movie once called Three Days of Condor, and it really felt …’ And I was like [widens eyes ], ‘Uh-huh …’” Feige says with a laugh.

But all is not well between noble Cap and his S.H.I.E.L.D colleagues. “With the greatest generation in World War II, there’s a tendency to reflect on that period and say. ‘Things were black and white back then, and now it’s hard to know who the bad guys are,’” Feige says. “We wanted to play on that a little with Cap being uncomfortable with the way S.H.I.E.L.D., and in particular Nick Fury, operates.”

If you want to watch a bunch of people standing around a movie set waiting for cameras to roll, the Cleveland ABC affiliate is live-streaming from the shooting locations downtown: http://www.newsnet5.com/subindex/news/news_livestream1

Photos from first day of shooting. Downtown Cleveland was NYC for The Avengers, now we're Washington, DC for this. (My office is about 2 blocks from this location.)

http://www.newsnet5.com/gallery/news/news_photo_gallery/photos-captain-america-filming-begins-in-downtown-cleveland

First trailer out today -- looks great, imo.

http://www.newsarama.com/19376-captain-america-the-winter-soldier-trailer.html

Woo Cleveland filming locations represent all over that trailer

This fucking RULED.

The 70s paranoia-thriller vibe worked great, with some neat 21st-century updates. The action sequences are CRUNCHY - they really made Cap insanely-but-convincingly athletic and capable. They did a great job of putting some of the best aspects of Ed Brubaker's comics on the screen, and set up some interesting stuff for future Marvelverse movies.

dunno wtf agents of shield is gonna do now tho

Oh, that's so good to hear. I loved the first one. I might make an effort to watch this one as soon as it comes out!

The words '200,000 feet of magnetic tape' have never been as entertaining as they are in this movie.

WHAT MORE RECOMMENDATION DO YOU NEED

i need no more recommendation. i will be there.

Also, there's a really awful Sam Jackson metajoke right at the end.

oh, this just opened? maybe i should see it. where can i see a version w/o scarjo?

opens next week I think.

really looking forward to this. Capt. America 1 is probably the best of the Marvel films aside from maybe one of the Iron Man movies. I liked Avengers well enough but Thor 2 was terrible (I like Thor 1).

I liked Captain 1 ok but it totally sold out the climax to launch avengers. he sacrifices himself to...NOPE HE'S AWAKE ITS MODERN DAY SEE YOU NEXT SUMMER!

def psyched for this though

You know, I really like these Marvel movies, generally, but I think this one was a generic dud, so generic that with every predictable non-twist I kept thinking, hah, clever of them the try to throw people off the scene of the real twist, or the real plot, or the real bad guy or whatever. And then that never came and I had trouble staying in my seat. I liked Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 much better, because they had some wit and good ideas. This one, I wish I had taken notes, because, man:

In a general sense, I thought the movie was crappily directed. Like, how it looked, where the camera looked, how the cast was made-up, etc. No surprise, sort of flat and TV-like.

And then:

SOME SPOILERS

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?
[New hero] just happens to have a file with his secret program sitting around his apartment?
They manage to secretly build basically three Death Stars right under Washington, DC?
The secret base in New Jersey is a long elevator ride down , but they climb right out of the rubble?

So much lazy bullshit. And the acting was pretty poor. I did like the official first mention of Dr. Strange, though, albeit in passing (as if everyone knows the dude). No idea how they're going to explain away the presence of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in a world without mutants without messing up fan conception of this whole thing. Going to have to start mutating the canon in major ways.

Also, really liked Mackie in The Hurt Locker, nice to see him here.

important question: is hayley atwell in this one.

Had to google her. Apparently she is in this, but I still don't know who she was in this. Oh, wait, she's there in essentially a newsreel cameo, and/or beneath tons of old age make-up.

I think there's video footage of her that plays for about two seconds

oh yeah, she's there as an old person too! Quite good makeup

Everyone else in this looked the way newscasters and actors who have been airbrushed for HD look in anything but HD. Totally painted, guys and gals alike.

Now that you mention it, there was something slightly off about the way they looked. Scarjo was all washed out

Because she is an alien, iirc.

One more thing: nobody remembers Captain America's close friendship with Bucky Barnes from the first film. Literally - no one.

The close friendship that is celebrated in a major display in a national museum?

I just saw this. Obviously it's a minor pleasure at best, but I wasn't bored.

I remembered Bucky, Josh!

I could watch Robert Redford read the phone book tbh

thought this was much much better than it had to be, and def better than the first one

• Mackie steals it
• the washedoutness was good and right and appropriate to the paranoid-thriller throwback genre. see also: redford's wide tie.
• namechecks: Batroc Zee Leaper! Steven Strange!
• Brubaker cameo!
• Winter Soldier subplot completely immaterial to major arc but that plus lost-in-time hero gave it just enough emotional ballast to overcome the Dark World who gives a fuck problem

Teaser was okay, bring on the next. Love more and more that each [non-X, non-Spider] Marvel pic is an issue in the big story. It's a highwire act and they're pulling it off well enough that I'm not about to complain. Bring on Guardians for humorous interlude.

excited to see this. sf chronicle savaged it predictably, I don't think MIck Lasalle appreciates superhero films though. if this is better than the first one I'm particularly excited.

I don't think it was better than the first one -- saw it this afternoon. I have to finish up a zine but will come back later with thoughts.

oh and the epitaph on A CERTAIN PERSON'S gravestone was a little on the nose but I lol'd anyway

gonna see this in the theater, can't be more leaden than Thor 2

Does it have anything as stupid in it as Captain America staying on the plane for convenient freezing purposes even though there was a glaringly obvious out?

going by this, he seems to have a fetish for going down with the ship

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?

They worked there! There was nothing unusual about them being there!

[New hero] just happens to have a file with his secret program sitting around his apartment?

Don't recall anyone on screen ever saying "secret."

They manage to secretly build basically three Death Stars right under Washington, DC?

It was SHIELD headquarters! It was a program approved by the Secretary of Defense! (In this universe - as established by The Avengers - the USA is obviously a signatory to and member of something called the World Security Council that has UN-like powers and more.) It wasn't a secret, its purpose was obscured by the bad guy!

The secret base in New Jersey is a long elevator ride down , but they climb right out of the rubble?

"Maybe" on this one.

No idea how they're going to explain away the presence of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in a world without mutants without messing up fan conception of this whole thing. Going to have to start mutating the canon in major ways.

Thought it was pretty obvious they had been experimented on by Hydra just like everyone else in this version of the Marvel Universe, with some combination of Hydra technology and some derivation of the super-solider serum that also created the Red Skull, the Hulk, et al. On-screen dialogue refers to "volunteers," i.e. Test subjects.

One more thing: nobody remembers Captain America's close friendship with Bucky Barnes from the first film. Literally - no one.

Do you mean in-universe or in the audience? Because neither of those is even remotely true.

You are bad at watching movies.

Thoroughly enjoyed this, but have to admit that after seeing them shutting down streets and filming this around town last year, it was a little jarring to see how it was cut together. I fell victim a couple of times to both "hey, that geography is impossible" and "oh, hey, it's the library/this building/that street!"

(A great example of "movie geography" - The beginning and end of Nick Fury's car chase are right around the corner from each other on the same block IRL. )

(And also a car chase taking place in "Washington, DC" has a clearly visible sign for OH-6/OH-322, which is Superior Ave. in downtown Cleveland.)

The more I ponder this film, the more I like it. It's a good chunk of CMU* exposition moving towards Avengers 2, but also not bad as an espionage and political paranoia thriller. I still think Cap 1 was the better film by a slim margin.

oh and the epitaph on A CERTAIN PERSON'S gravestone was a little on the nose but I lol'd anyway
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Friday, April 4, 2014 11:41 PM (Yesterday)

I got a good cackle out that.

Mackie as Sam Wilson was really good, and they caught the mid-70s Cap-Falcon cameraderie so perfectly from the very start that I wish he was going to be in the Avengers films as well as Cap films, but I understand not wanting to put too many ingredients in the soup.

*Cinematic Marvel Universe -- Rascally Roy

going to the 10 a.m. show. Ta!

SPOILERS!

Thought this was okay, but a bit too predictable... And not just because everyone who's read recent Captain America comics knew the biggest plot twist from the movie title alone, but because every other plot turn was so easy to guess as well... Of course the Black Widow isn't gonna turn out to be a traitor (you gotta think of future Marvel movies). Of course Nick Fury's death was faked (though at least they didn't use a Life Model Decoy). Of course the Robert Redford "patriotic" politician is gonna turn out to be the Big Bad (who else could it have been?). Of course in the final battle between Cap and the Winter Soldier the latter's memory would come back and he'd spare Cap. And so on... Given that this movie tried to be more of a spy thriller than a superhero romp, I wish they'd put more effort into the script, because the premise of straight-arrow Cap taking down corrupted SHIELD had a lot of promise. Basically the only plot turn that wasn't immediately guessable was Zola living inside a vaccum tube computer, and that was one of the coolest parts of the movie.

I wasn't super impressed by the action pieces either, they were professionally done, but not particularly innovative. The only really cool part one was Nick Fury driving through Washington and running away from HYDRA, the climax with Winter Soldier appearing on the middle of the road was hella intense. The final battle, on the other hand, was merely a variation of the typical Bond movie "infiltrate the bad guy's lair and plant a bomb there" finale, so it was hard to get super excited about it. A smaller scale one-on-one fight between just Cap and Buck would've worked better, because the psychological aspect of that battle at least made it a bit more interesting than your typical action movie fireworks.

Basically what I think saved this movie from being utterly mediocre was the character work. Cap has always been a blandish character, and thus it's hard for an actor to make him interesting, but I thought Chris Evans reached a decent balance between boy scout idealism and post-War On Terror doubt. And this was the first time I found Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow to have some intrigue in her, her "atone for my dark past" character motivation actually made sense in this context. Also, I really liked that they didn't add any token romance between her and Cap, but instead she was matchmaking him with Sharon Carter (i.e. his canon love interest in the comics). And the guy playing Falcon was of course excellent, give him a movie of his own already!

Oh yeah, and I was really disappointed they didn't give Batroc ze Leaper a comedy French accent and a waxed moustache. They missed a chance there. In general I'm not fond of how Marvel movies have toned down and grittified so many classic villains (possibly following the lead of the Nolan Batman movies). Supervillains should be larger than life, not these washed-colour scowlers.

i was totally pleased with batroc. his savate style was just "french" enough for a wink in the CMU.

I dunno... If you're gonna make him a generic mook whose only connection to the original character is that he kicks a lot, why call him Batroc in the first place?

I mean, the reason the comic book Batroc is memorable is because he's so (intentionally) corny and over-the-top. Take that away, and it could be anyone.

I mean, the reason the comic book Batroc is memorable a shitty character is because he's so (intentionally) corny and over-the-top.

My favorite of the Marvel films to date: clean, a couple good crackling exchanges between ScarJo and the Cap'n, and some tension. Shrewd Toby Jones and Garry Shandling cameos. Good of Robert Redford to whore out his poached-salmon face to play a colorless bureaucrat who never raises his voice. The movie wants to have its cake and eat it too (the big bad world those awesome SHIELD toys made has to be destroyed...so that another acronym can take its place) but any movie that makes Chris Evans interesting to watch for once deserves a medal.

and yeah Batroc the Leaper! I only know his name from the Marvel board game issued in the seventies (through which I also learned MODOK).

Do you mean in-universe or in the audience? Because neither of those is even remotely true.

I mean not from the comics, from the first movie. Obv. comic nerds know almost every soapy beat of these things. I just meant as a major character from the first CA movie.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

I should say I really like all these movies, at least a little. But I thought this one pretty perfunctory. I think all the positive reviews are related to the Real World themes, but as a superhero movie it was pretty eh.

The first section of the first film was about Steve being 4F and his friend Bucky shipping out. The entire reason Captain America went into combat and ducked out of the USO show was because his friend was behind enemy lines captured. Did you watch the first movie?

Also, whatever review or comment I read saying the title was a misnomer because the Winter Soldier character is barely present has no idea wtf a "winter soldier" is. Hint: it's not just Bucky

in other words Bucky done gone

think I'm gonna see this today. didn't care for the first one but the trailer looked positively dope oh fuck the dog I was watching just moved out of view brb

I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

Actually, I think there's an advantage to having very little familiarity with Marvel storylines. I have no idea who any of the non-famous characters are (Quicksilver? Scarlet Witch? Batroc? Sharon?) so when they're introduced I can just take them as they're presented to me. Which maybe makes it easier to not quibble with how they're presented? I suppose that isn't true for all Marvel-ignorant viewers.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

i'm unfamiliar with the decades-old stories and i didn't have a problem with this at all, i remember bucky because i remember the first movie

anyway the marvin gaye montage at the end was the best

and there was "ah! abed cameo!" but more importantly DC PIERSON CAMEO

Well, maybe it did not help that I saw the first movie three years and, what, three Marvel movies ago, and have not seen a minute of it since. I liked it, too, iirc. So no, I didn't remember Bucky playing a big role. Obviously I know the mythology from the comics - I didn't have to ask who Thanos was after the Avengers, either - but I felt the drama between Cap and Winter Soldier in this was as perfunctory as the rest of it.

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?

They worked there! There was nothing unusual about them being there!

Yeah, I'm sorry, no, every single one of the bad SHIELD agents just happened to be sweaty and dark and full-stubbled. I thought it was comical, actually. Though it was an easy way to tell the two sides apart!

I think first Captain America movie is still on netflix if you need more Bucky

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, April 5, 2014

yes. it is what it is.

You know, at the rate they're adding characters, I'm honestly surprised the second Avengers movie is itself not a two-parter. More villains, more heroes, each with tricky backstories - Baron Von whomever, Ultron, the Vision, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, plus everyone from the first movie, all pushing things toward a Thanos movie ... but no Hank Pym in this, though Hank Pym later, and one assumes/hopes Doctor Strange shows up, with room for at third Thor and Captain America, and Guardians of the Galaxy, and yet no Fantastic Four or X-Men in this universe. It's getting so convoluted.

and apparently Steve Strange will bring Midge Urge with him

Midge Ure? Isn't that Thor's hammer?

JIC i'm usually with you on the movie stuff but in this case i feel a switch to decaf may be beneficial

i sort of want to see this but i've heard the action sequences are horribly done which makes me REALLY not want to see this. also, i don't like scarjo.

untrue re the action sequences ime but hey if that's what you heard

I counted about 5 1/2 action set-pieces, and I thought the last one (the big climactic one) was the only one that could have used a lot of tightening up.

No one in this movie has any fancy powers so the action is pretty grounded and coherent. Lots of hand to hand

iirc wesley morris (who is usually otm) complained in his review about the blocking and lack of establishing shots and i expected going in to be annoyed but imo their approach captured in a visceral way the notion of physical struggle between superhumanly strong, fast, and skilled combatants.

I really enjoyed the first one. I can't wait to watch it tomorrow.

The only fight that worked for me was CA vs. Batroc; the rest were cut to bits, but that's just 'cause they gotta work with what they've got and Chris Evans is never gonna be Tony Jaa. I was also left cold by the climax; the hunting-Nick Fury sequence was way more interesting than the big three-helicarriers bit. Basically, the more grounded the movie was, the better I liked it. Plotwise, it was interesting while still being geared toward 10-year-old boys ill-equipped to handle the philosophical rigors of, say, Person of Interest. A couple of decent bits of normal human behavior; I liked CA's little notebook where he writes down all the 20th Century pop culture he needs to catch up on, and the soldier-bro interaction between him and Falcon in general was fun.

this was awesome!!! much darker than the first, but not in a 'brooding bleak' way. Nice body count, too.

You know, I think the only reason I was disappointed was that I heard a couple of people say this was the best of this batch since Avengers, but I had more fun at Thor 2 and Iron Man 3. This wasn't bad, I admit I was unduly harsh. I just felt it was pretty by the books. I really was expecting at least some element of surprise in it, something novel and inventive, but it was just generally competent. Like I said, barely remember the first, but I remember liking it more.

And yeah, a lot of people getting shot in this.

this was prob my fav of the Marvel flicks

fuck thor 2 is terrible! don't tell me it's better than this!

the reactions to this film seem to be all over the place

Thor 2 is in no way better than this movie, not even close.

This was the most paint-by-numbers Marvel movie yet, Iron Man 2 aside. At least the first Thor was a goofy misfire.

Thor 2 isn't better, but it's more fun and has more personality.

that is insane. Thor 2 was fucking boring!!!!

yeah Thor 2 was about as much fun as something not even remotely fun

If anyone, three or four more Marvel movies down the line, remembers a single solitary detail from this movie with any affection, I'll ... no, that will not even remotely happen. This is placeholder serialized franchise filmmaking at its most useless.

let's just c/p the above to the RONG thread and move along....

whereas I've already forgotten all but 5 mins of Thor 2

That can be true and still be evidence in its favor of this installment.

of over

Oh hey, guess where Armond White landed?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375062/captain-america-red-white-and-false-armond-white

Again, it's a wonder how much more compelling Armond has gotten very recently with the seeming benefit of real editorial guidance.

And how sad it is.

hokkoda • 7 hours ago

So, just got back from the flick...movie night with my sweetie...and it is outstanding.

What the reviewer doesn't understand is that there are a lot of people, people like me, who left the military, who left the government, because we can see what it is becoming.

When the heroes lay low with Sam, who is a vet, and Cap asks for help, he says something to the effect of, "Captain America needs my help? I'm in." Makes more sense in the context of the film, but I felt like Sam. Our country, from Obamacare to the IRS to the Fed to PRISM to Paramilitary local cops is turning into a police state.

Interestingly, Cap wears a "Dark Knight"-esque uniform for the first part of the film, is basically a civilian for the middle part, and goes old school for the finale.

This is not even remotely a left-wing movie. Two groups of people won't like it. Big Government "Brave New World" Obama-ites, and Big Military "Trade Freedom for Security" types.

Evans still has a shaved chest, y?

The writing may have improved but the shtick hasn't changed.

Evans’s cartoon image lacks the uncanny moral resonance that distinguished the compassionate Superman in Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel – the best in the recent surfeit of comic-book movies, where feeling and action were combined to a graphic/spiritual purpose.

shtick OR what he actually believes

I know "spritual" brings out the Gong Show judge in ilx

Interesting that so many people like this for the politics or message, but no one seems to be talking at all about all the superhero stuff. And everyone seems to think the titular baddie is all but irrelevant. And that's a success?

I've already forgotten a lot of Thor 2, but I do remember having fun with it. Same with the first Cap'n America, which I've forgotten even more of. Apparently contrary to my instincts, I am the only one who forgot all about Bucky from the first one, but I do find it funny that this movie, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 all found it important to again and again remind of "the events of New York" - you know, the giant billion dollar blockbuster that everyone saw and liked - but just sort of drops in the Bucky drama as if Cap'n 1 came out last week and I've been on the edge of my seat wondering how Cap'n is faring.

Also, and this is unrelated to this movie being good and bad, certainly three giant extra-terrestrial styled death star helicarriers crashing in missiles and flames over DC would be just as troubling to your average innocent American as aliens over NYC. This movie could have used a couple of reaction shots of people around the world in native garb tuning in around the world. You know, nomads in robes in a tent watching a pirate feed, Japanese school kids watching TV in class, tourists in Hollywood ignoring the costumed sidewalk heroes in favor of the drama unfolding on TV...

xp I don't give a flip about "spiritual," I boggle at any film critic or writer of repute finding "Man of Steel" anything but turgid and dumb.

Interesting that so many people like this for the politics or message, but no one seems to be talking at all about all the superhero stuff. And everyone seems to think the titular baddie is all but irrelevant. And that's a success?

Well, I mentioned upthread that 'they really made Cap insanely-but-convincingly athletic and capable' and I do think this movie does a great job of showing how superheroes MOVE more than any other movie of its kind. In the opening sequence especially, Cap and Black Widow's movements are really fluid - they seem utterly in command of the situation and their abilities, and they have a weight to them which shows up the horrible ragdoll Spider-Man swinging sequences from his movies, for example.

The titular baddie is the emotional core of the movie. How is that irrelevant?

I've already forgotten a lot of Thor 2, but I do remember having fun with it. Same with the first Cap'n America, which I've forgotten even more of. Apparently contrary to my instincts, I am the only one who forgot all about Bucky from the first one, but I do find it funny that this movie, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 all found it important to again and again remind of "the events of New York" - you know, the giant billion dollar blockbuster that everyone saw and liked - but just sort of drops in the Bucky drama as if Cap'n 1 came out last week and I've been on the edge of my seat wondering how Cap'n is faring.

Well, the events of New York only took place a couple of years ago, tops, in the movie universe, and they directly involved Iron Man and Thor, which is why they were mentioned in those characters' movies. Why would Thor or Iron Man make reference to Captain America's WWII partner, who as far as anyone knew died 70 years ago in events only Captain America was actually involved in? To Cap's mind, though, the death of his best friend was only a few years ago - of course it's still going to be a big deal to him and the sequel to his first solo movie is the only logical place to go in-depth about it. Would Avengers have benefited frokm stopping for five minutes so Cap could discuss his anguish with Bruce Banner?

And they don't 'just drop it in' - there's a flashback to Bucky's death, his importance to the war effort is explained in a museum exhibit at the Smithsonian and there's another flashback where we see that Cap and Bucky were lifelong friends even before they joined the army. I genuinely don't understand your problem with this part of the movie. What else could they have done which would have satisfied you?

Also, and this is unrelated to this movie being good and bad, certainly three giant extra-terrestrial styled death star helicarriers crashing in missiles and flames over DC would be just as troubling to your average innocent American as aliens over NYC. This movie could have used a couple of reaction shots of people around the world in native garb tuning in around the world. You know, nomads in robes in a tent watching a pirate feed, Japanese school kids watching TV in class, tourists in Hollywood ignoring the costumed sidewalk heroes in favor of the drama unfolding on TV...

Yes, this movie would really have benefited from interrupting the climactic action scene, which was already split between three characters' parallel activities, with cutaways to characters we've never seen before looking shocked or whatever.

I actually thought the way they handled the destruction in the final scene was really clever. Man of Steel was rightly excoriated for a final battle which destroyed Metropolis and must have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Here, the damage is done away from the city centre, over a river, and although many people must have died when the helicarriers went down they were either a) boo hiss Hydra baddies or b) plucky SHIELD agents who knew what they were signing up for. And in terms of impact on public opinion, I think the destruction of three helicarriers, the design of which the public are already familiar with because similar models are standard-issue SHIELD vehicles, would pale somewhat in comparison to the shock of an actual honest-to-goodness invasion of space bastards, complete with giant armoured worms, via a fucking wormhole to distant space in the skies over NYC.

I'd like to see some references in Avengers 2 to disaster fatigue in middle America and/or actual cases of PTSD in people living in NYC, DC and London.

Save it for the Damage Control movie imo.

I haven't seen any of the home-video shorts, but Damage Control would be perfect for a little straight to video two-reeler.

This movie could have used a couple of reaction shots of people around the world in native garb tuning in around the world. You know, nomads in robes in a tent watching a pirate feed, Japanese school kids watching TV in class, tourists in Hollywood ignoring the costumed sidewalk heroes in favor of the drama unfolding on TV...

jfc dude

you talk shit about roland emmerich and then post a bunch of notes that essentially make you roland emmerich's ideal producer in the 90s

Yeah, I gotta say, that would be right out of the Sharknado playbook.

Captain America: Independence Day

Yes, this movie would really have benefited from interrupting the climactic action scene, which was already split between three characters' parallel activities, with cutaways to characters we've never seen before looking shocked or whatever.

This was a joke, dummies. It's my favorite lame blockbuster cliche. Actually, it's the worst in "The Truman Show," of all films, where "the whole world is watching" is represented by, like, five or six random groups of people.

Anyway, I'm truly not worked up about the Bucky stuff. I just thought it was equally hoary for Cap'n to go to a museum exhibit and bask in the back exposition. Better reveal would be that Redford was the Red Skull or something.

In the comics, are people really familiar with the helicarriers? Like, are they flying around and stuff with people cheering "yeah SHIELD!" I honestly have no recollection. I just figured all that stuff was super top secret and/or invisible.

In the comics, are people really familiar with the helicarriers?

yes

This was a joke, dummies

considering how nonsensical your other objections to this movie have been you'll have to forgive us

Well, you can disagree, but I don't think they're nonsense. Glad you liked the movie so much, though!

BTW, I saw some weird backpedalling - or obfuscation - on the part of Marvel that the Stephen Strange mention means there's a movie/character introduction coming. It might be just a little in-joke. Otherwise, I wonder how they'll fit him/it in. What's next on the slate? Just "Avengers" and "Guardians" right now, or are they formally/officially moving forward on other Marvel movies right now?

ant-man

Ant-Man: July 15, 2015
Cap 3: May 6, 2016
Five Netflix miniseries

They've got a road map for future movies up to 2028, apparently. Hoping there's a Willie Lumpkin vs Paste-Pot Pete film in there somewhere.

Been thinking of making this thread for a while, finally pulled the trigger: Rolling Marvel Cinematic Universe thread (+ a poll: Classic or Dud?)

bizarro gazzara long post OTM

BTW, I saw some weird backpedalling - or obfuscation - on the part of Marvel that the Stephen Strange mention means there's a movie/character introduction coming...

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, April 6, 2014

what backpedaling? they name-checked him. that's it!

Kevin Feige:

"Well, 'we' know what it means and where we want to head with it, but we were comfortable with keeping it in there and leaving it in there because there are a few different ways to interpret it. The whole thing, what Sitwell's saying is, this algorithm is going to predict if you're going to become a problem for Hydra or not. So you don't have to just be Tony Stark, actively plotting to save the world. You could be a kid whose SAT scores and whose essays have indicated that you're going to be a problem one day. So is Stephen Strange the Sorcerer Supreme? Probably not at that point. Is he an unbelievably talented neurosurgeon who's opinionated and kind of arrogant? Probably. That might put him on the list."

Kevin Feige:

right. we name-checked him. that's it

I enjoyed this but it seemed, I don't know, too wedded to the whole idea of the box ticking mythology. I mean, did anyone actually spot ghat Toby Jones played Arnim Zola in the first film? And he felt kind of superfluous in this, the whole HYDRA infiltration could have happened without needing him in it at all. Ditto the Falcon, who seemed to be there primarily for the 'throw the bad guy off the roof' joke but mainly because the comics say he's Cap's mate when he's hiding/undercover.

Obviously I knew from the title about Bucky, so watching from that POV they really trowelled on the hints before the reveal.

It felt to me like the Falcon was there because Captain America can be a pretty dull character who benefits from a strong supporting cast in order to round him out a bit. Cap's an old soldier, who mentions that all his WWII buddies are dead, so it makes a certain amount of sense to have a modern soldier for him to relate to, bond with and cast a different light on his experiences.

From a purely plot-related perspective, the film calls for Cap to be out in the cold with no-one to trust, so having a new friend for him to rely on who isn't involved in SHIELD makes sense too, and the Falcon is a logical choice - especially since Marvel movies have been rightly criticised for featuring a lot of white guys in leading roles.

And yeah, I remembered Toby Jones as Zola from the first film. He spent a lot of time with the Red Skull. Between you and Josh in Chicago, I'm starting to feel like I was the only one paying attention during the first movie. They didn't strictly need him in there, I guess, but they did need someone to explain the HYDRA infiltration and using Zola provided another link to the first movie (which I guess could be a challenge considering they're set 70 years apart and share few characters) and also allowed them to provide a wink and a nod to comics fans by making him stuck inside a TV screen like the Zola of the comics. Plus, it gave us the '200,000 feet of magnetic tape!' joke which I lolled at.

Cap's little notebook of things to learn about, which includes the entry "Star Trek/Wars," creates one of those celebrity paradox things: Sam Jackson has been in the Star Wars films, and Chris Hemsworth has been in a Trek film. Does Cap notice that characters in those movies look just like Thor and Nick Fury?

Cap's cultural catch-up list also included the 1966 World Cup, so I wondered if it was a different list for different territories

Nick Fury just looks uncannily like Sam Jackson.

http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/705/705450.jpg
http://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.site/PHvTwzsGPwpHzB_1_m.jpg

xp yes, yes it was: http://io9.com/captain-americas-catch-up-list-is-different-in-differe-1555534018

Instead of I Love Lucy, he's learning about the British show Sherlock. And instead of the Berlin Wall, it's the Beatles.

And Cap's list is different in other countries, too. According to Slashfilm:

Aussies have AC/DC, Skippy the Bush Kangaroo, and Steve Irwin added to the list, while Koreans get Ji Sung Park, Dance Dance Revolution, and Oldboy. French fans see the 1998 World Cup and The Fifth Element, among other things.

That's pretty awesome actually.

Heh, in the comments:

Monty Python's Flying Circus
Moon Landing
The British Invasion (not an act of war)
Punk Rock (genre)
Benny Hill
Thai Food
Star Wars/Trek
Ramones (band)
Rocky (Rocky II?)
Troubleman (Soundtrack)

That's the suggested "improved" UK list, btw.

I believe they took suggestions from test screening audiences as to what should be on the UK list. Hence Sherlock

I like that Star Wars is crossed off the US list. Wonder what he thought?

Star Wars/Marvel crossover will def. happen now.

I enjoyed this.

Got a kick out of the Marathon Man set-up scene in the beginning, and Redford's All the Presidents Men costume ref. Apparently the Shield HQ bldg is located where the Watergate actually is.

The heavy contrast of ending titles was a great summary of the two different genres they went for: the 1st is a rah-rah WWII film and so they used propaganda art, vs the 2nd is a 70s paranoid spy thriller and has something between Maurice Binder and Saul Bass designed titles.

I dug that they explicitly namechecked "the Howling Commandos".

Nick Fury torching his storage locker is a nice bit of imagery but doesnt really work when the establishing shot of it shows nothing but fire-proof metal cases.

The upgraded helicarriers were death star in function, but Battlestar/SDF1 in design.

I don't think they could do much about the Bucky reveal, seeing as how the comics had decades of emotional impact with the running joke that everyone comes back from the dead, except Bucky.

I think a lot of the deeper refs I missed, since I grew up obsessed over the xmen, not the avengers.

And the product placement was annoying.

Watched the first film last night, so a lot of stuff was fresh in my mind, like the fact that the first shot of Toby Jones' Zola is thru a lens/screen:

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Arnim-Zola-East-Egg-in-Captain-America-The-First-Avenger.png

Falcon has his own Lego minifig now:

http://marveltoynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LEGO-Marvel-Falcon-Minifigure-with-Serious-Face-Expression-640x480.jpg

gary shandling reveal was so great, glad they didn't cut it for dvd extra.

I have no idea how I didn't guess the Zola angle in the second one after I'd noticed the foreshadowing in the first one!

Cool to see Redford play a fascist in his own conspiracy movie. Also, “wtf is with garry shandling's face” has “About 2,200,000 results”

I like that they foregrounded Jenny Agutter from the shadowy Council

I was disappointed it wasn't actually her doing all that asskicking

I thought, "wow this lady is a badass too eh?" then it turned out to be some Tom Cruise Mission Impossible shit.

still it was a pretty fun movie. I liked how many doors were blown off in this move.

http://x1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4071127+_358b6267776b0c7c70f562774b630280.gif

Watched this on the plane. I mean watched half of it because it was phenomenally boring. Avengers had its problems but Whedon, at least, knows how to write a line of text. "We needed a quantum surge in threat analysis." Who writes this shit? Really? They are going to READ PEOPLE'S DNA FROM A SATELLITE? Why do they put the longitude and latitude of locations in the establishing shot? Just to emphasize how much watching this is like watching a mid-season episode of a third-tier action show on USA Network or FX? The action setpieces, at least the ones I saw, were just dull. Anonymous figures bouncing off walls and punching each other to little effect.

Thor 2 at least was funny in places. This, at least in the first half, was not. Johanssen seems to wince at some of the "snappy" lines she has to read. They should have put Madcap in this movie and gone all-out wacky/bleak.

Johanssen actually wrote some of those snappy lines

I guess she figured she couldn't do any worse than the actual screenwriters.

this was appallingly stupid and inept.

Thank you.

darraghmac hates America

one of his best qualities

jaysus the glare of the three magi all at once

http://wp.streetwise.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/hocus-pocus.jpeg

"ello, we're maggie"

I had heard going in that this was arguably the best Marvel film to date, and it's hard for me to disagree. It's very good as an action film, above average as a paranoid thriller type homage, though still probably a bit overstated on that point in terms of what actually is happening in the story. Again the casting is really key; Chris Evans is good in the role but more crucially he's extremely likable in a part that could be a lot more boring and not very interesting, this extremely good and righteous moral hero who doesn't have much if anything in the way of dark shading. It could fall completely flat, cf any post-Christopher Reeve Superman, for example. But it's been executed really well in both of the CapAm films I've seen.

It does remind me to a certain extent of The Dark Knight, in a lot of it seems to be taking from genre thrillers rather than superhero films, but it's not nearly as morose and the Hydra plot is more interestingly diabolical.

this is however another Marvel film in which the climax involves large craft blasting away high in the sky and eventually falling slowly to the ground in a smoking ruin while people battle onboard and try to escape before it crashes....

apart from the brief appearance of Toby Jones, I snored through this

Well but what did you think of the 3.5 minutes you saw of the film?

pretty good!

it was just one of those things where the stakes seemed nonexistent and the "conspiracy" pretty obvious

If anyone, three or four more Marvel movies down the line, remembers a single solitary detail from this movie with any affection, I'll ... no, that will not even remotely happen. This is placeholder serialized franchise filmmaking at its most useless.

― Eric H., Sunday, April 6, 2014 12:11 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Posts that didn't age well

" this is however another Marvel film in which the climax involves large craft blasting away high in the sky and eventually falling slowly to the ground in a smoking ruin while people battle onboard and try to escape before it crashes...."

I think this has happened now in every Marvel movie since.

I haven't seen Endgame yet, but out of the 12 movies between Winter Soldier and it, it happens in 3: Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Ultron, and Homecoming.