Shit Said by Every Libertarian Ever

1) "If we had a true free market society...."

oh do fuck off

libertarians are unpleasant and say stupid things it's true

2 )oh do fuck off

― things that are jokes pretty much (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Thursday, January 3, 2013 4:44 AM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

3) "...the long Western tradition of individual rights..."

4) When I'm at the Wal-mart or grocery story I typically pay with my debit card. On the pad it comes up, "EBT, Debit, Credit, Cash." I make it a point to say loudly to the check-out clerk, "EBT, what is that for?" She inevitably says, "it's government assistance." I respond, "Oh, you mean welfare? Great. I work for a living. I'm paying for my food with my own hard-earned dollars. And other people get their food for free." And I look around with disgust, making sure others in line have heard me.

I am going to step this up. I am going to do far more of this in my life. It's going to be my personal crusade. I hope other libertarians and conservatives will eventually join me.

5) "social engineers, whether on the left or the right"

6) "i'm not a conservative or a right-winger, i'm a 'classical liberal.'"

^ v OTM

7) "the lord is my shepherd i shall not want"

8) "rational self-interest"

Here's my thing I have with libertarians: they go on and on and on about how you should be able to do anything you want as long as it doesnt impact anyone else. Hey pal, name me something you can do that doesn't have the possibility of impacting someone else or hasn't already impacted someone else already by making use of collective resources.

9) "penn jillette is very funny and insightful."

10) "a square wants to come on hip.... talks about 'pod,' and smoke it now and then, and keeps some around to offer the fast Hollywood types"

11) "don't phunk with my heart"

Ah, but Poliopolice, the fallacy you succumb to is the very idea of "collective resources" in itself. If only air and water could be privatized and kept out of the hands of social engineers of the left or right, the rational self-interest of their property owners would ensure optimal efficiency in their usage. If only we had a true free market society.

12) "doctors, lawyers and accountants shouldn't be required to be licensed by the states where they practice their trade."

(some right-wing fucknut actually made that argument to me a few weeks ago. and he cited Milton Friedman, as if THAT would by itself convince me of the correctness of his argument)

probably too soon to start a 'shit said by every librarian ever' thread alas

"Welfare is just like the government putting a gun to my head and demanding I give it to that homeless person over there."

Actual argument made to me by the University Libertarians.

It being his money.

13) any trope involving the "government putting a gun" to one's head to do something that the libertarian does not want to do.

Shit said by no libertarian ever: "Private property ownership is just like the government putting a gun to your head and telling you where you can go, what you can do, and what belongs to you."

14. "Judeo-Christian"

Same libertarian also said that crime would be controlled via something like, I shit you not, blood feuds. In lieu of the State, individuals would take matters into their own hands. Pretty soon, no criminals would to commit any crime! Something vague was also said about how this how the norm in medieval Iceland, the freest state ever.

Yeah, "vigilante justice" is used unironically by some of these people.

Ugh that post was typoed to hell and back.

I really couldn't believe what I was hearing. My jaw dropped and he just kept repeating ICELAND ICELAND ICELAND.

on the vigilante tip ...

15. "a well-armed society is a polite society."

16) I pretty much never have sex because I'm a terrible person and I wear bowties

Also, every interaction between everyone is to be determined by contractual agreement. I can't even begin to form a trope based on that one.

and though not even Clarence Thomas on his crankiest day would go this far, there's this pearl of constitutional "jurisprudence" that i've heard more times than i wish (and ALWAYS by white libertarians):

17. "the US Constitution guarantees the right for its citizens to revolt."

18) my social skills are appalling and my concept of human relations is distorted to such an extent that I cannot even make small talk with my barber without quoting ayn rand

Also, every interaction between everyone is to be determined by contractual agreement. I can't even begin to form a trope based on that one.

until one mentions the Social Contract theory -- in which the libertarian answer is always, "well, I didn't sign THAT Social Contract!"

19. Gold standard gold standard gold standard

20. "Why we making bills about violence towards women and minorities, violence towards everyone is already illegal!"

21) fill my dresser with rabid starving raccoons because I deserve to be thrashed to death by diseased rodents

22. i want to live in a post apocalyptic wasteland literally wouldnt that be the best

23. "Mad Max and Somalia are NOT libertarian paradises!"

24. http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/755/95724968.jpg

25. "Just you wait until Reddit Island is up and running."

26. "no, those aren't real libertarians, my version of libertarianism is..."

27. "the only reason most libertarians are white and male is because all those other people just don't understand how much it can help them"

nb: few things make me fume more than libertarian fucktards opining that they ... and they alone ... are the ONLY people who have read or understand the Constitution. few, if any, of these people have law degrees or anything like that ('cause lawyers and law professors are Negro-loving Jew communists liberals and socialists like duh). and none of them have any inhibitions stopping them from "informing" any lawyers that they know about their "correct" interpretations of the Constitution.

(yes, if you can't guess i've been the brunt of this stupidity more times than i wish)

28 "other people's money"

29. "my communist housemate's belief in collectivism is the reason our sink is always full of dirty dishes" <--shit said by my old libertarian housemate about me (i did the dishes more than everyone else)

plz tell me yr third roommate was a priest

the reason your sink was always full of dirty dishes is because it's impossible to keep a sink clear of dirty dishes in any communal living situation with non-integrated eating habits. It's just math, really.

30. (Pointedly ignored.)
"Why should the state of Texas subsidize your education at UT Austin?"

haha I wasn't posting a "things libertarians say" that's my actual observation of sinks in college apartments with lots of people in them

there's never been an apartment lived in by multiple college-aged people with a clean sink and zero resentment

31. "It's not a race issue its a class issue, and besides..."

32. "bootstraps"

31. "It's not a race issue its a class issue, and besides..."

― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:10 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shit said by every college libertarian/anarchist/communist/SDS member...

33. [In response to any argument against libertarianism]: "Did you learn that in SCHOOL?"

34: "businesses and corporations will maintain roads and stoplights because they need their buildings accessible to customers"

35. "I've gotten to where I am on my own, without any government handouts at all"

it's threads like these that make me glad I don't have a Facebook. or talk to strangers.

everything that i will ever put in this thread is from my ex-housemate who i was once good friends with and convinced into move to mine and another friend's house, which happened about a week before he started to read atlas shrugged out of curiosity

things went south

36. "You don't understand economics."

I read the thread title as 'Shit Said by Every Librarian Ever' and thought it was all going to be like "Shhh!"

31. "It's not a race issue its a class issue, and besides..."

― finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:10 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

shit said by every college libertarian/anarchist/communist/SDS member...

Libertarian unless the speaker knows/uses the word 'intersectionality'.

"Why should I have to pay for [X]?"

^^^uh, 37.

like clockwork the socialist philosophy major of my facebook feed posts a link to a WSWS review of brother ali's album and highlights this part

“'And if we say it how it really is/We know our lily skin still gives us privilege' raps Ali early in the album (“Letter to my Countrymen,” featuring West). This flies in the face of the depiction of American society presented elsewhere on the album, which strongly suggests that all sections of the working population and the poor are suffering. What privilege does 'lily skin' offer the millions of white workers losing their jobs and houses and seeing their conditions of life relentlessly attacked?"

i should remove bookmark before this becomes a thread of my least favorite people

Libertarianism is just white boys and their geishas trying to assert that the rules for everyone else *don't apply to them*, which I guess is a neurotic, guilty mirroring of their unearned societal privilege in [insert year here}. If anyone in my immediate circle/field of vision starts in with libspeak, I nip it in the bud by asking them when they plan to grow a neckbeard.

How come they don't quote Milton Friedman more? I'd like to learn something ....

Glad we don't really have libertarians over here in Yurp.

they don't quote milton friedman more because although he was very much a libertarian, he believed in a very active role for monetary policy (ie the federal reserve) and today's ron paul fans want none of that. ben bernanke is satan, hyperinflation is always around the corner, put all your money in gold and bitcoins etc. etc.

38. I don't usually agree with Alex Jones, but the timing of this Aurora/Sikh temple/Newtown/wherever mass shooting is kind of suspicious.

Glad we don't really have libertarians over here in Yurp.

not really true, btw. this guy used to visit the comic shop i worked for in the 1980s - he really was a massive Steve Ditko fan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Tame

39.) Climate change is a natural, cyclical process that has nothing to do with human activities.

Glad we don't really have libertarians over here in Yurp.

not really true, btw. this guy used to visit the comic shop i worked for in the 1980s - he really was a massive Steve Ditko fan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Tame

― Ward Fowler,

Not saying they don't exist, but they're not particularly vocal as a group. I've only come across people who hold these views IRL on my travels (invariably Americans).

40) "Check out this Peart fill coming up!"

"scratch a liberal, find an authoritarian"

From the Brit end:

"Oh yeah, because Labour are going to do wonders for the economy"
"The problem is, no one likes trade unions"

"Welfare is just like the government putting a gun to my head and demanding I give it to that homeless person over there."

Actual argument made to me by the University Libertarians.

I'm just going to pretend that you never clarified this if that's okay

Loving this thread on so many levels

"the republic..."

#40 = wishful thinking

45) I was at NTB last night getting a tire fixed and there was a guy sitting next to me in the waiting room who was loudly grumbling about the fiscal cliff deal and how it meant that the US was "turning into China".

uh

46. "A=A"

47. mentioning Europe as an example of the HELL ON EARTH that America may slip into

My stepdad did this alot at xmas. I almost asked him "So all the countries you go to on vacation and have a wonderful time in?" but didn't.

48. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats
*votes Republican*

49. "market forces would have ended slavery"

wow, never heard that one.

they really like saying that to black people if my anecdotal evidence is anything to go by

50. finds some fault w/ a Scandinavian country (historically Sweden, but nowadays Norway) and uses this fact to argue that said Scandinavian country is on the brink of collapse or will inevitably collapse at some future date b/c Scandinavia isn't so keen on laissez-faire economics/has loose morals.

51. points to Ireland and Latvia as examples that "austerity works dammit!" wr2 recovering from the financial crisis, but finds fault w/ Iceland (which told their banks to suck it).

corollary to 50 is to say, sure social democracy works in scandinavia, but it won't work in the US because we are a "low trust society" (hint hint hint)

Next time you meet a libertarian, ask them why they aren't railing about cars, which are polluting THEIR air.

mentioning Europe as an example of the HELL ON EARTH that America may slip into

I know a couple people who refer to California in the same manner, it's the worst place in the world.

they don't quote milton friedman more because although he was very much a libertarian, he believed in a very active role for monetary policy (ie the federal reserve) and today's ron paul fans want none of that. ben bernanke is satan, hyperinflation is always around the corner, put all your money in gold and bitcoins etc. etc.

also, Milton Friedman had impeccable academic credentials (regardless of what one thinks of his political views, or the political implications of his economic work) whereas gold buggery is to economics what intelligent design is to biology.

nah there are plenty of batshit economists w/ impeccable academic credentials

52. "Here's something else you can sink your teeth into. Related. I honestly do this, and have been doing this for years. You know that silly fist bump thing? When my co-workers or friends try that with me I extend my full hand for a traditional handshake. I tell them sorry, but I don't do that 'Obama thing.'"

50. finds some fault w/ a Scandinavian country (historically Sweden, but nowadays Norway) and uses this fact to argue that said Scandinavian country is on the brink of collapse or will inevitably collapse at some future date b/c Scandinavia isn't so keen on laissez-faire economics/has loose morals.

― 롤이 엿 번역 시간을 낭비 (Eisbaer), Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:17 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, i got a few of these on fb during the healthcare reform years.

53. 'the best thing you can do for poor ppl is to shop at wal-mart, because wal-mart creates jobs for the poor.'

54. 'the new deal actually made the great depression worse.'

"the problems of capitalism are solved by more capitalism"

55. "America has it's problems, but it's still the best country in the world"
- this isn't strictly libertarian but it's certainly a standard element of American propaganda that is kept up with the counter-examples of European hell-holes and places in the world where people are bombed daily (by us)

If anyone in my immediate circle/field of vision starts in with libspeak, I nip it in the bud by asking them when they plan to grow a neckbeard.

haha I love how everybody has their own pet conception of what libertarians look like

they all have long hair

56. "*insert any government policy you don't like here* is just like slavery!"

I hate hate HATE this.

i have yet to meet a libertarian who either came from a background of privilege or isn't privileged at the moment. Both of those conditions, in their worlds, are the result of their own personal awesomeness.

correction: DIDN'T come from a background of privilege

57) guns are cool

http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/370/015551_23.jpg

guns, you'll be a woman... soon.

58) "roll tide"

I know a couple people who refer to California in the same manner, it's the worst place in the world.

― joygoat, Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:37 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

California contains chemicals known by the state of California to cause cancer.

59. If I offended you... too fucking bad, you don't like my posts you have the option of not reading them, unsubscribe, remove me as a friend or whatever. Don't send me private messages to complain or whine.

libertarian fb friend just posted this, lol if i offend you plz dont offend me back

next post

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/406687_10151327798587726_138673653_n.jpg

libertarians are always mock-apologizing for blowing minds with their honesty

hah yes

i'm very sorry for telling it like it is...NOT.

lmao this reminds me of the story my wife told me about when she was a waitress at a hamburger joint in Arlington. she was waiting on some guy who came in by himself and read the whole time. I guess the election came up as conversation and he condescended to her for voting for gore. when he paid his ticket, he wrote her some note with book recommendations. atlas shrugged, fountainhead. gave her his number, telling her to call him when she had read them.

he left a 25 cent tip.

libertarianism: the negging of america

still was probably better than the time she waited on pantera, tho way less profitable

I don't know if this proves Mark Cuban is decidedly not Libertarian or profoundly nth-level black belt Libertarian:
"I also love Ayn Rand books , purely for motivation. I dont get into the whole ethos and political aspects of her writing"

60. "If Ron Paul's so dumb, how come he predicted everything that happened in 2008 in the economy?".

(Point out his predictions of hyperinflation didn't come true)

"They've just been delayed by temporary liberal actions, the hyperinflation will still come".

61. "People would be able to afford paying for their medical care if you quit taxing them to pay for other peoples social welfare".

62. "You can't even say 'Merry Christmas' anymore".

63. "Minimum wage hurts skilled workers by pricing them out of the market"

64. "We can solve unemployment by allowing people to work for 10 cents an hour, as they surely want to do."

65. "Abortion should be decided at the state level"

66. the civil war was about states rights

often followed by: please cut off my finger and throw it in a big field. while i'm asleep, punch me in the face repeatedly until i'm unconscious. slip a burlap sack over my head and throw me in the back of a pickup. drive me to that field and leave me there until i can find the finger.

68. "Anyway, this is a boring conversation..."

still was probably better than the time she waited on pantera, tho way less profitable

when I was a lowly checkout clerk, the Abbott brothers would roll up to the supermarket in a limo, load up on party supplies and tip each of the people who helped them carry it out a hundred bucks

lmao this reminds me of the story my wife told me about when she was a waitress at a hamburger joint in Arlington. she was waiting on some guy who came in by himself and read the whole time. I guess the election came up as conversation and he condescended to her for voting for gore. when he paid his ticket, he wrote her some note with book recommendations. atlas shrugged, fountainhead. gave her his number, telling her to call him when she had read them.

he left a 25 cent tip.

― Todd Terragh - "It's the Harps" (m bison), Thursday, January 3, 2013 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lolled so hard at this

xp

they were drunk, demanding assholes, but they were loose with the money, probably from being so drunk

they were drunk, demanding assholes

drunk people make weird demands

haha otm

hahahaha

69) "The school system would improve if the government would merely end its monopoly on education and everybody could choose the schools their kids went to. oh, of course it wouldn't be free anymore, but anybody who CARED about their kids would ante up....or send them to a trade school!"

70) america actually has the most progressive tax system in the world

71 "Back into the pocket of the taxpayer..."

72 "my dad makes more than your dad"

73. "You should read Ayn Rand"

74. "most people aren't rational enough to know what's best for them."

I once got into a big argument with a college libertarian (who was otherwise an alright guy) who was advocating that since there were a limited number of student parking spaces, the school should just auction them off to the highest bidder, because "that way whoever needs them the most will get them, because they'll be willing to pay the highest price." I said "No, that way whoever can afford to pay the most will get them." (btw this was a state school with a lot of commuters, who were (a) more likely to have less money and (b) legitimately needed the parking). The guy stared at me quizzically as though he was actually having trouble processing what I was telling him.

"i am literally a piece of human garbage throw me in the trash"

71 "Back into the pocket of the taxpayer..."

― a beef supreme (dog latin), Thursday, November 21, 2013 6:15 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh man. Phrases I hate...

75. "the tenth amendment guarantees the right to secession."

76 "Fiat currency"

77 "good money doesn't chase bad money"

78. "we need to break the culture of poverty"

78. "we need to break the culture of poverty"

argh culture of poverty. to be fair, idiot libertarians stole that from evil conservatives, right?

79. 'well they can always move somewhere else, after all, i did'

iatee?

b. marley iirc

80. "Why don't you want parents to have choices in education for their kids?"

81. "Government assistance discourages people from getting a job" -- said by a coworker ( the same one who doesn't think Project Runway is a gay show ).

think about all those poor little jobs just quivering in wait of someone to fill them, so many of them, so lost and cold

I seriously had to listen to the ranting of a racist libertarian who, surely emulating Ron Swanson, had used his managerial job in a government agency as a way to gum up the works--doing nothing, impeding the work of others, making his lazy, idiotic, black underlings repeat tasks pointlessly to prove that government can't do anything and that his department should be privatized.

I think the only reason no one at the party shut him up is that he was missing an arm & we were wondering what he had finally done to inspire someone to tear it off.

God, I can hear that guy now.

"I.R.S. told me they'll wait until next year to take the leg haw haw har."

had a polite British guy at this one function I went to recently tell me I should look into leaving the USA soon because he felt that the dollar is pretty close to crashing and the USA is going to crumble soon.

why do the loonies always pick me to talk to?

Your fetching smile and bright eyes?

Tyrion made it easy to pin an obvious crime on him by being the only one to be candid about Joffrey's sociopathic behavior. And so it feels, sometimes, with the attacks on libertarianism, where good faith efforts to improve public policy outcomes by limiting the deleterious effects of government are skewered as some diabolical ploy to loot and pillage the people through corporatism, exactly that which libertarian policy solutions try to prevent.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/12/the-trial-of-tyrion-lannister-and-bashin

god reason is a floating trash barge in the south bullshit ocean

they should change their name to wellactually.com

A bitcoiner in a dumb article comment thread recently asked me "Is the money in your bank account really yours?"

Makes u think

He actually said "Is the money in your credit card really yours?" and when I pointed out to him that credit card accounts don't actually have money in them, that's not what credit is, he insisted that he meant "debit card account." I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

it's all just government fiat, maaaan!

"i am literally a piece of human garbage throw me in the trash"

― lag∞n, Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:26 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loooooooooooooooool

He actually said "Is the money in your credit card really yours?" and when I pointed out to him that credit card accounts don't actually have money in them, that's not what credit is, he insisted that he meant "debit card account." I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

― Doritos Loco Parentis (Hurting 2), Tuesday, May 13, 2014 11:55 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I remember watching a friend have a debate w/ a friend who insisted credit unions would keep him in debt for the rest of his life (which he knew cuz he had a job in 'financial services'), only to have another friend come up and say he didn't believe in banks cos he didn't trust him and kept all of his money in his wallet.

just wondering how the hell the dude would manage his money if he managed to make a quality living, imagining thousands of bucks under a mattress....and thinking about how easy it would be to rob this guy and pay off my student loans.

glad u have many friends

imagine yours love it when u tell them u hope they get raped

you remembered a thing.

you'll just have to keep imagining nonsense about my friends, as i'm not in the habit of posting about them here.

except on meta threads amirite

I'm noticing a common thread between 9/11 truthers, the anti-vaccine crowd, and bitcoiners: an inability to weigh things against one another. 9/11 truthers will tell you how implausible it is that airplanes caused these buildings to collapse ("near freefall speed" etc. etc. spittle flying at you face) not realizing how much MORE implausible it is that the government would be able to pull off this kind of mass deception -- disappearing planes, secreting enough explosives into the WORLD TRADE CENTER to demolish it, etc. Anti-vaccers tell you about all the horrible risks of being vaccinated, completely incapable of comparing those risks (to the extent that they are not 100% ficitonal, like autism being caused by vaccines) to the much more real and terrible risks of outbreaks of polio etc. Bitcoiners are convinced their "fiat" money is not safe from the gubmint, so instead they favor a highly volatile, unstable, unsafe and unproven commodity as currency.

undiagnosed bi-polarity

attn internet libertarians you should just send me all your worthless fiat currency.

I will also accept worthless Fiats

bitbugs remind me of the anti vaccination crowd, so fixated on a fear with a remote possibility of happening (autism/collapse of dollar) when their solution is much more likely to fuck them over (polio/pertussis/MMR/bitcoin exchange collpase and or theft)

though I guess that's true of a lot of human nature

― anonanon, Tuesday, March 4, 2014 5:05 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whoa

At a leaving do for another colleague, a guy in my work outed described himself as a libertarian/anarchist and said that he believed socialism to be the worst form of government in human history... this is despite the fact that a few days earlier, during a discussion of the strike on the London Underground, he had debated in support of the strikers and argued (along with me) for the historical significance and continuing importance of the trade union movement. I think he's a bit confused.

In the Evening Standard this week:

Amol Rajan, in writing about driving and libertarianism, would do well to look up what the latter means. As a philosophy, libertarianism is based on the non-aggression principle - the idea that no one has the right to force their preferences on others. How that equates with "might is right" is anyone's guess. I can't help but feel that people who feel threatened by libertarian ideas tend towards its political opposite - authoritarianism.
Frank Turner, N7

(yes, that Frank Turner...)

ugh that fuckin' guy

As a philosophy, libertarianism is based on the non-aggression principle - the idea that no one has the right to force their preferences on others. How that equates with "might is right" is anyone's guess.

funny enough the non-aggression principle does reduce to "might makes right"

If the non-aggression principle = no checks on the ability of anyone to amass power, then it definitely does wind up equating to might makes right.

one of my favorite dudes to read about the "non-aggression principle" ie nozick is full of shit logically

http://mattbruenig.com/2014/02/01/libertarian-julian-sanchez-agrees-non-aggression-is-circular/

no one has the right to force their preference for non poinsionous air and water on me

it'll work once some brave heroes just give it a chance

http://gawker.com/ayn-rands-capitalist-paradise-is-now-a-greedy-land-grab-1627574870?x

classic

X

how many times have I tried these. Dull, Dull Dull

And while we're at it the fucking Afghan Whigs.

And I'm listening to Rodan's 'Rusty' which is A plus.

Go figure

Dulli, Dulli Dulli

Science and the Law: Schreber's Illegitimacy

Insofar as science exists in a dichotomous relation to religion, i.e., it is what religion is not (i.e., religion is based upon 'faith,' whereas science bases itself on 'empirical fact'), science is particularly well suited to this task. Furthermore, as a dominant discourse, science is governed by a definite set of laws based on logic and rationality. In other words, science brings order to chaos. In a semiotic 'universe' that is quite literally predicated upon nothing, the 'structuring' capacity of science cannot be underestimated. However, when science does eventually prove inadequate, when Flechsig (as a man of science) proves incapable of curing Schreber's 'nervous condition,' this semiotic distance collapses. This point is essential in determining the specific nature of Schreber's (second) psychotic break. The argument in general circulation is that in assuming the position of Senatspräsident to the Superior Court, Schreber is confronted with men who are in superior positions, and as such represent the father. Thus, try as he may, Schreber can not approximate this position; he found himself lacking (which was subsequently turned into a God that was lacking). Put another way, Schreber is called upon by the Law to a position for which he has no answer.

The task was all the heavier and demanded all the more tact in my personal dealing with the members of the panel of five Judges over which I had to preside, as almost all of them were much senior to me (up to twenty years), and anyway they were much more intimately acquainted with the procedure of the Court, to which I was a newcomer" (Memoirs, MH 63-64, D 47).

However, if we closely examine the Memoirs, it becomes clear that it is not Schreber's inability to carry out the tasks required of him, but rather, it is when (in his own words), he "had largely mastered the difficulties of settling down in [his] new office and in [his] new residence" (Memoirs, MH 63-64, D 47) that he experiences his (second) break. In other words, it is not that Schreber is 'in over his head.' Rather, because the signifier of the Name-of-the-Father (as that which functions as a 'third term' and as such secures his place and his continuity in a overriding kinship structure), is not available to Schreber because it is foreclosed, there is no legitimate place for him in the Law8. Thus it is in illegitimately (albeit 'successfully') occupying the place of Senatspräsident to the Superior Court–the realm of Law–that triggers Schreber's psychotic break.

To the extent that foreclosure of the signifier of the Name-of-the-Father excludes the subject from the Symbolic Order–the realm of society and culture–psychosis often involves a profound disturbance in the realm of kinship relations9, and specifically names10. Schreber thus contends that the 'rent' in the 'universe' was instigated through the unlawful usurpation of proper name and 'place' of the forebears of Schreber and Flechsig–a 'crime' he equates with 'soul murder.'

I want to say by way of introduction that the leading roles in the genesis of this development, the first beginnings of which go back perhaps as far as the eighteenth century, were played on the one hand by the names of Flechsig and Schreber (probably not specifying any individual member of these families), and on the other by the concept of soul murder (Memoirs, MH 54, D 33, emphasis mine).

'Soul murder' becomes the loss of one's name, or more specifically, the loss of one's legitimate place, one's right to exist as a subject of the Law. To the extent that the Symbolic Order–the overarching structure governing kinship relations– establishes one's legitimacy, one's right to exist and be recognized as a subject of the Law, such a loss would constitute 'soul murder.' Insofar as Flechsig specializes in nerves, Schreber (paranoically) believes that by acting upon his nerves11, Flechsig 'steals' his soul. (Memoirs, 54-55, D 33) In this capacity, Flechsig (as a signifier) plays leading role in Schreber's delusion.

Allow me to reiterate this point. While Schreber's illegitimate position in relation to the Law drives his psychic structure to its very limits (hence Schreber's heightened anxiety), science (as a discourse) still maintains the necessary distance from the place of foreclosure. Because science still functions as the master signifier par excellance (the discourse that 'grounds' Schreber's universe), Schreber turns to Flechsig–a man of science and a 'nerve' specialist–to cure his 'nervous illness.' In this capacity, Flechsig is the 'representative' of the sinthome, that which maintains the necessary distance from the place of the foreclosed signifier. Flechsig's inability to relieve Schreber's 'condition' however, simultaneously reveals the inability of science to function as the sinthome. It is thus my argument that when Flechsig is 'exposed' as incapable of 'curing' Schreber, and as such, science is 'exposed' as incapable of continuing to function as a substitute, Schreber collides with the abyss in place of the signifier of the Name-of-the-Father, i.e., he confronts a thoroughly inept God who is (not surprisingly) 'embarrassingly exposed.' From this point on, science in and of itself can no longer function as the barrier, or sinthome that maintains Schreber at a safe distance from the place of the foreclosed signifier–from what must remain at a distance. (As an aside, it can be argued that Schreber's delusion–the construction of a hybrid discourse–functions as the new sinthome.)

The Break with the Øther

This semiotic collapse severs Schreber's relation to the Øther and leaves Schreber (quite literally) on his own. In fact, by the time Schreber left for Pierson's Asylum (the "Devil's Kitchen") in approximately mid-June 1894, his illness had advanced to the state that all people and even surroundings were 'derealized,' i.e., Schreber saw them as merely "theater props" (Memoirs, MH 102, D 100). Schreber can now only imagine himself as real to the extent that he is (again, quite literally), the center of his signifying universe. Put another way, with the distance breached, Schreber is positioned in this 'empty' semiotic place–the place of foreclosure–alongside an 'empty,' and thoroughly inept 'God'12.

Because Schreber no longer has a relation to the Øther13, he must rebuild his signifying structure within a closed Imaginary circuit, a circuit where he himself functions as the master signifier par excellance. Consequently, Schreber asserts categorically that "everything that happens is in reference to me," (Memoirs, MH 197, D, 233, emphasis mine) or "[i]t is demanded of me to relate to myself everything that happens" (Memoirs, MH 198, D 235, emphasis mine). In other words, 'meaning' is achieved only to the extent that it is incorporated in and through Schreber14. To further illustrate this point, consider the clause "[l]acking now is only the leading idea," to which Schreber responds "we the rays have no thoughts"15 (Memoirs, MH 234, D 199). That is, Schreber must do the thinking (e.g., even the "so-called not-thinking-of-anything-thought" [Memoirs, MH 144, D 158] is still thinking insofar as Schreber must "not-think-of-anything" incessantly). As the master signifier par excellance, it is incumbent upon Schreber, indeed his most profound duty, to 're-compose,' or as his delusion manifests, to repopulate this rotting world through his feminized body16, i.e., he must fill the emptiness, resolve the futility of the world, and restore it so that it again makes sense.

Within this context, it is hardly surprising that Schreber associates the withdrawal of 'rays' (or nerves) with becoming a "frivolous human being given only to the pleasures of the moment" (Memoirs, MH 129, D 138). This is an important point. Through his delusion (and as I will demonstrate, through the concentration of literalized nerves), Schreber establishes his place as the 'ground' of the universe. If he were to lose this 'ground,' he would become redundant–indeed a "frivolous human being" (Memoirs, MH 129, D 138). Schreber thus asserts that "I lived in the belief–and it is still my conviction that this is the truth–that I had to solve one of the most intricate problems ever set for man and that I had to fight a sacred battle for the greatest good of mankind" (Memoirs, MH 130, D 139).

Schreber as the Master Signifier par excellance

Essential to the argument I am putting forth in my thesis, is that Schreber's 'universe' is in actuality the expulsion of his own disconnected and as such, unrecognizable signifying structure. Indeed, Schreber's assertion that "the whole solar system would now have to be disconnected...the whole group of stars had to be drawn together into a single sun" (Memoirs, MH 84, D 75) epitomizes his (seemingly divine) task. To elaborate, the whole solar system that must now be disconnected is the unpinning of Schreber's signifying structure; the whole group of stars that must be drawn together into a single sun, is Schreber himself as the master signifier par excellance–the signifier to which all other signifiers in Schreber's closed Imaginary circuit are eventually 're-pinned' (Memoirs, MH 84, D 75).

The expulsion of Schreber's (now) disconnected and, as such, unrecognizable signifying elements appears to turn his 'universe' inside out; or rather, it is as though in this 'big bang'17, Schreber's signifying elements shoot out and disseminate18 into an externalized universe filled with planets and stars– God's 'outposts' (Memoirs, MH 72, D 59)–all connected by 'rays' or nerves (lesser or greater souls), and significantly, all eventually connected and united within Schreber19 through a feminine 'soul-voluptuousness, where 'feminine' is associated with 'fullness' and 'abundance,' i.e., being full of nerves20. Put another way, the implosion of a semiotic distance effects a semiotic explosion where signifying elements (manifesting in Schreber's delusion as 'celestial bodies') disseminate throughout the 'universe.' Insofar as these 'celestial bodies' are Schreber's own signifying elements (even though he does not recognize them as such), his 'cure' consists in their reincorporation.

The Schreberian Universe: A Bundle of Nerves

Nerves are the most over-determined signifying element in the Memoirs–appearing no fewer than four hundred times. In keeping with the precarious nature of Schreber's 'nervous condition,' nerves manifest as "extraordinarily delicate structures–comparable to the finest filaments" (Memoirs, MH 45, D 19, emphasis mine). Schreber's 'nervousness' is both the literal means of installing himself as the center of the universe–the master signifier par excellance–and (ironically) that which constantly threatens to undermine his position. Insofar as Schreber's nerves are the literal infrastructure of his nascent universe, i.e., as 'concretized' rays of God (the foreclosed signifying element Schreber is attempting to reconcile), to the extent that they are elements of the foreclosed signifier, i.e., the means he uses to reconstruct his universe, they are also the means that (in his delusion) constantly threaten to destroy it. This is particularly evident in what Schreber designates as the "flight of rays" (Memoirs, MH 136, D 147). In elucidating this phenomena, Schreber asks the reader to envision a scenario where

...the rays of a whole world, [Schreber's disconnected, externalized and unrecognizable signifying structure], are somehow mechanically fastened21 at their point of issue [Schreber's head], which travel around one single head [as in orbiting a celestial body] and attempt to tear it asunder and pull it apart in a fashion comparable to quartering" (Memoirs, MH 136, D 147).

This 'push and pull' dynamic is characteristic of the Imaginary realm; in fact, it could be argued that the Imaginary realm is particularly well suited for this reconstruction, i.e., because it involves rivalry, it incites Schreber to action, to actively (even if it is undertaken passively) reconstruct his signifying structure.

Schreber asserts as an axiom that "the human soul is contained in the nerves of the body." (Memoirs, MH 45, D 19, emphasis mine). This sentence attests to another key feature of psychotic language, i.e., literalization. The 'literalization' of Schreber's signifying structure occurs both on a macro- (universal) and a micro-level. For example, Flechsig's soul is 'thrown' into Schreber's belly where it manifests as a 'bulky bundle' that Schreber compares with a "volume of wadding or cobweb" (Memoirs, MH 92, D 86). In both cases, i.e., macro (the universe) and micro (Flechsig), these elements are depicted as a web or a sort of network. However, in the latter case (Flechsig's soul), it is as though it is compressed. It is worth noting at this point that Schreber explicitly states that he had a vision where Flechsig shot himself, which was followed by a funeral procession. At this time (and in close proximity in the Memoirs), Schreber felt that Flechsig had exceeded himself, e.g., referring to himself as "God Flechsig" (Memoirs, MH 91, D 86), and that he should be reduced to size. Flechsig, as such, is compressed into a ball and subsumed in Schreber's belly (where Schreber could not 'stomach him'); as Schreber states, "[i]n view of its size it would in any case probably have been impossible to retain this soul in my belly, to digest it so to speak" (Memoirs, MH 92, D 86). As another case in point of this psychotic literalization, when the 'souls' renounce the implications of Schreber's corporeality– specifically his need for, and enjoyment of food–Schreber (literally, albeit delusionally) exists without a stomach.

Later for a time the miracles were in preference directed against my stomach, partly because the souls begrudged me the sensual pleasured connected with the taking in of food, partly because they considered themselves superior to human beings who require earthly nourishments; they therefore tended to look down on all eating and drinking with some disdain. I existed frequently without a stomach (Memoirs, MH 133, D 144, emphasis mine).

As a final case in point, this 'literalization' is evidenced in Schreber's delusional belief that the contents of his head and his spinal cord were being "pumped out...in the form of little clouds," i.e., (like a 'puff of smoke') where they might "vanish into [thin] air" in order to make him demented (Memoirs, MH 135, D 147).

When we situate these delusional manifestations in semiotic terms, abstractions are reduced to the concrete; connotations are reduced to denotations, and various denotations themselves are collapsed into a concrete singular meaning (nerves, or their manifestation as [divine] rays are the exemplar of this phenomenon). Schreber makes this explicit in the following passage:

...one must assume therefore that the capacity to be transformed into a human shape or become a human being, is an innate potentiality of divine rays. An entirely new light is thus shed on the well-known word of the Bible: "He created man in His image and in the image of God created He him." It appears that this passage from the Bible has to be understood literally, which no human being has so far dared to do (Memoirs, MH 193-194, D 228-229, emphasis mine).

This passage attests to another key feature of Schreber's delusion, i.e., while Schreber claims that rays must create, this creation is in fact a transformation of that which already exists. "They [the rays] have in particular the faculty of transforming themselves into all things of the created world; in this capacity they are called rays; and herein lies the essence of divine creation" (Memoirs, MH 46, D 21, emphasis mine). Schreber thus asserts that "great changeability is a marked feature of the soul-character" (Memoirs, MH 134, D 144). Insofar as Schreber is "filled with nerves of voluptuousness from the top of [his] head to the soles of [his] feet" (Memoirs, MH 204, D 243, emphasis mine) and "great changeability is a marked feature of the soul-character" (Memoirs, MH 134, D 144), the massive influx of rays (manifesting as 'nerves'), transforms Schreber into a voluptuous (i.e., nerve-filled), female being. Put another way, despite the manifestation of Schreber's delusion to create a new world (or to be the instrument of this creation), to the extent that Schreber no longer has access to the Øther, he cannot create, i.e., bring forth something new; rather, he can only transform, or in semiotic terms, reconnect and reorganize his disconnected signifying elements.

This reduction of abstractions to the concrete–this literalization–is particularly striking in what Schreber refers to as 'nerve language,' i.e., nerves as literalized souls (or rays) 'speak' in a manner consisting in the vibration of nerves approximating the movement of vocal chords (Memoirs, MH 69, D 54). In other words, language (arguably the exemplar of abstraction) is reduced to concrete action. Moreover, Schreber conflates his 'nervous illness' (generally understood as a state of mind, i.e., an abstraction) with the excitability of his physical nerves. In a very definite sense then, these two disparate denotations (not to mention connotations) are collapsed into the concrete. And we are not simply dealing with Schreber's physical nerves; rather all 'souls' in Schreber's 'universe' exist as literalized nerves (or rays). Having said this, however, to the extent Schreber exists within a closed Imaginary circuit, this semiotic collapse manifests as a literal proliferation, i.e., the only others (souls) Schreber encounters are himself, i.e., his own small others, or unbarred, perverse, status-seeking big Others. In this world turned inside-out, rather than securing the universe, 'God,' as an inept master signifier, continually loses his nerve(s)22 and as such, cannot 'ground' the universe; nor can He contain his nerve, i.e.,"[a]s a rule God did not interfere directly in the fate of peoples or individuals." Schreber designates this "state of affairs [as] in accordance with the Order of the World" (Memoirs, MH 48, D 23).

Insofar as 'God' (as a signifier) maintains His distance, conditions remain in accordance with the Order of the World, i.e., Schreber's 'propped-up' signifying structure functions provided this distance is maintained23. As I have emphasized, it is the collapse of distance (between science, the substitute master signifier, and religion [or 'God'], the foreclosed signifier) that triggers Schreber's psychotic break. However–and this is decisive–rather than re-establishing distance (an impossible task given that despite appearances, Schreber's 'universe' consists only of him), he negates himself–and in particular, as a man. In a very definite sense then, Schreber does not 'own' himself. Indeed one could argue that to the extent Schreber is 'occupied' by holy thoughts (literalized rays of 'God'), he cannot 'occupy' himself, e.g., he indicates that he "considered absolute passivity almost a religious duty" (Memoirs, MH 127, D 135). To resolve this 'universal crisis24,' as a sort of 'Great Mother,' Schreber reincorporates himself by 'absorbing' (Memoirs, MH 94, D 90) or 'soaking up' rays (which are in fact his own disconnected, externalized signifying structure). Schreber speaks of this task throughout the Memoirs as a task he does not desire, but one that he firmly believes is necessary if the Order of the World is to be restored25.

This state of Blessedness is mainly a state of voluptuous enjoyment, which for its full development needs the fantasy of either being or wishing to be a female being, which naturally is not to my taste. I must however submit to the necessity of the Order of the World which forces me to accept these ideas... (Memoirs, MH 240, D 291, emphasis mine).

While Schreber does insert himself as the master signifier par excellance, he does not, and cannot (given his closed Imaginary circuit) introduce the quality of negation characteristic of radical Øtherness. Instead, he must continually negate himself by 'sacrificing' to a greater good. However, to the extent that he must to do this incessantly, it becomes more of a 'habit'–a necessary nuisance. Thus as counter-intuitive as it may sound, it is in the very act of negating himself, i.e., 'absorbing' or 'soaking up' rays, that Schreber regains himself (albeit as a literal 'bundle of nerves').

Now Schreber contends that when conditions are in accordance with the Order of the world, 'God' deals only with 'dead' nerves, i.e., by incorporating (or reincorporating) the nerves of corpses into Himself. Schreber further contends that "the nerves of living human beings particularly when in a state of high-grade excitation, have such power of attraction for the nerves of God that He would not be able to free Himself from them again, and would thus endanger His own existence" (Memoirs, MH 48, D 24, emphasis mine). In other words, 'God' was (necessarily) self-sufficient; He didn't need to approach the living human being, just as living human being didn't need to approach 'God.' (Here we get a glimpse of Schreber's pre-psychotic 'distance' from 'God' and religion.) Before Schreber's psychotic break, this distance manifests as a sort of disinterest in religion, i.e., he was not averse to it, yet not inclined toward it either.

...Nor was I (in my youth) a truly believing person in the sense of our positive religion. But neither have I been at any time contemptuous of religion; rather I avoided talking much about religious matters and I had the feeling that people who had luckily retained in their later years a pious child's belief, should not be disturbed in their happiness. But for my own part I had occupied myself too much with the natural sciences, particularly with the works based on the so-called modern doctrine of evolution, not to have begun to doubt, to say the least, the literal truth of all Christian religious teachings (Memoirs, MH 80, D 70, emphasis mine).

From this passage, it is clear that 'God' (or religion) did not and could not function as the master signifier par excellance. However, while 'God' is not a grounding master signifier for Schreber, 'God' (or religion) represents the symbolic legacy of Schreber's father. Thus when Schreber confronts the rent in his signifying structure, insofar as his father's symbolic legacy is religion–a legacy and/or grounding signifier Schreber rejects (or forecloses)–he encounters a void in the place of 'God26.' As such, Schreber is compelled to insert 'God'/ religion into his signifying structure. However, to the very extent that religion was inadequate as a master signifier prior to Schreber's psychotic break, it remains inadequate even as it is inserted with certainty.

Oh man, I remember this one party where a libertarian cornered me and told me that.

was that one of the chapters from Atlas Shrugged?

http://www.lacan.com/lucasfig2.gif

So many people being accosted by so many crazoids at parties itt
we are all the wedding guest in rime of the ancient mariner

i wish a libertarian wld talk to me at a party

I wish the ancient mariner would talk to me at a party.

it would be dope; agreed

perhaps he could bring you a nice bird for your neck

wld be secretly angling for a dore plate of my rxn shot tbh

http://www.artsycraftsy.com/dore/mariner_wherefore.jpg

me irl???

perhaps he could bring you a nice bird for your neck

everyone olds and babbies lolin at my neckbird wtf

lol I realized immediately after that post that I missed my window to create "neckbird" so I'm glad someone else made that sad little leap

Sorry, man, it's the internet.

new fave term:

libertechbrotarianism

"Let me break it down for you..."

i'm sure there exists somewhere a great takedown of the "taxes are theft" idea but i don't know where. someone help?

rawls touches on taxation quite a few times but it has been ten years since i read him and can't be more helpful than that

i was eating this baby the other day and ...

Rawls pwned nozick harrrrrrrd

The "conservatives," who promote "family values," always seem to get caught up in lurid sex scandals. The "liberals," who prattle on about all of us "paying our fair share," always seem to get caught up in tax-avoidance/financial scandals.

Funny, how the best any of them can throw at us libertarians are totally unfounded and unprovable charges of "racism," isn't it? (Aside from being dismissed as a bunch of potheads...) sunglasses emoticon

Given Watson's support for the poisonous, hateful ideology known as "third-wave feminism," on top of her smug leftist financial posturings, I hope they throw the book at h

libertarians get dismantled by the fact that they live in imperialist nations whose largesse is only achievable through big government and they are free riding off the benefits of such. That an they're typically racist pricks.

Funny, how the best any of them can throw at us libertarians are totally unfounded and unprovable charges of "racism," isn't it? (Aside from being dismissed as a bunch of potheads...)

Now, if you'll excuse me, this Social Security check isn't going to cash itself

https://twitter.com/ByronTau/status/737034372046524416?s=09

Libertarian nominee should be determined via strip-off

ew put it away.

Happy Holidays pic.twitter.com/ueTMW3Dgcj

— Libertarian Party NH (@LPNH) August 25, 2022

"Libertarian declines to pay fire department for saving his home"

lol at first I was like "wait, I thought I started this thread", then remembered Nino was one of my socks

Weird

Family is the last line of defense against the state, the most important countering institution to it. He's just going to continue to prove he doesn't understand the first thing about libertarianism. Some messenger for the movement. https://t.co/cm0XJDwg4R

— Toad (@TowerGangToad) September 6, 2023

never thought a thread I created w/ a sock would get any traction

right wing "libertarianism" sees to be in constant tension between its basically fascist commitments and its bullshit ultraliberal free market rhetoric and the true believers (or marks) are always getting into fights with the people who are just picking up the language for their own agenda maybe we can use this somehow

I used to check Reason magazine occasionally. A tension seems to have evolved between the staff and the commenters, the latter of whom are a nest of right-wing MAGA troglodytes. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that so many of these libertarian types flocked to Trump's banner.

"I want to own chickens but the county is now telling me that my property is not zoned for chickens. WHAT. THE. FUCK."

I'm pretty sick of whoever is making up these "time zones."

"I can't help it if you're low IQ."

I have devised my own math. I don't care if teh government insists 2+2 = 4

its basically fascist commitments and its bullshit ultraliberal free market

I don't really see this as a tension. Neither authoritarians nor libertarians have any time or use for laws

the tension is when the veneer of social liberalism slips I guess

I'm pretty sick of whoever is making up these "time zones."

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

do you know how many TIME ZONES there are in RUSSIA?

Neither authoritarians nor libertarians have any time or use for laws

i don't see it as a tension, but for the opposite reason, that fascists are big believers in state power, and that libertarians, once you scratch the surface, are too - to enforce property rights, tax breaks, patent protections, the right of their golf club to exclude whoever they like etc

Lots of libertarians also seem to be anti-choice, which does, in fact, seem to be a contradiction.

Right wingers are in favour of laws, rules, controls - and plenty of them - for and on everyone other than themselves.

Authoritarians are certainly big believers of state power, but that doesn't mean they are big believers in law. Authoritarians and libertarians alike believe in lawlessness as virtue. Power should be outside law

I just don't think that's right anvil. I think you'd find a whole lotta (American) libertarians strongly in favor of an extremely well resourced police department putting the clamps on everyone they disapprove of and enforcing their rights to "be free" of whatever they don't want to have to think about.

In Sweden, you can camp on anyone's land (private or otherwise) for two days, then you have to move on

I wonder how the idaho libertarians would feel about that

Yes, they want enforcers but not laws. Laws act as constraints on enforcers

In an ideal world what the enforcers are enforcing should be informal and flexible, understood but not documented

Yeah, there's that good quote about that (applying to conservatives, not libertarians per se, but same same). "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

We should get rid of laws so I can do what I want / We should get rid of laws so the king can do what he wants

I've quoted Chuck Dukowski of Black Flag before: "Anarchy for me, fascism for you."

I don't think theres much of a tension or contradiction between libertarianism and authoritarianism because both believe power should be held by the person not the office, and bureaucracies such as institutions, laws, and office should be for display purposes only. Attempting to codify such things goes against natural order

But I think there IS a tension between libertarianism and fascism. Libertarianism and authoritarianism aim to depoliticize and de-energize, the public are just potatoes. While, fascists also believe power should be in the person not the office, its aims to energise and politicise the potatoes runs the risk of disrupting the natural order. Active participants can potentially band together, act unpredictably, or start to gain elements of power. I think the tension or contradiction is in whether the public should be activated or not, fascism isn’t necessarily as hierarchical as libertarianism or authoritarianism, with a potential danger of power flowing upstream as well as downstream