itt we talk about Enlightened on HBO, seasons 1-1000000

so i just started watching this and it rules!

only three eps in and i have absolutely no idea where it's headed.

I have not talked to another human being who's watched this, laura dern & blonde guy are utterly cringe inducing at times but i really liked the way season 1 played out

season 2 so far not doing it for me though :(

i found season one pretty hard to watch, ended up skipping to the last episode and wasn't sure i'd 'missed much'

spent a lot of time looking at one of the leads and going "is that ... fat luke wilson?"

otoh, the first three minutes or so was maybe the most bravura opening of any tv show's first episode i've ever seen. and laura dern can act the shit out of anything, obviously.

THIS IS THE BEST SHOW AND OH MY GOD

i like to think that i had my 'burn it down' moment last september 14 :D

no but for real this show is like... well i am writing an essay about it right now so i should probably no-spoilers this shit but yeah, it SPEAKS TO ME in a way few other tv shows do

it's so much better than girls although that's probably because i'm old

the tagline for the this season should be "enlightened: a rising number of people think it is better, specifically, than the tv show girls"

http://www.maura.com/301/into-the-light

coke night on hbo

relentlessly posi episode.

okay maura you convinced me: I'll give it a whirl.

invoking bunheads is powerful magic :)

Predicting awesome rage relapse when she realizes journalist dude is using her & she won't get her due glory. The parts with Luke Wilson bore the shit out of me. Kind of want to just skip over them.

i loved that last wilson episode. it was such a relief from the constant tension and anxiety the show trades on.

I like this show. I can't think of any other series with such a bizarre POV and treatment of its main character. Are we meant to sympathize/empathize with her? Are we meant to agree with her? Is she a hero? If so then why is she so fucking annoying? Why does it so often seem like it is mocking her?

Not to quibble minor points with Maura's article, but I think "abbadon" means "destruction" or "destroyer".

very strange show. I've watched a few episodes here and there, and know the general premise I guess, but mybe I need to see it from the beginning to "get it."

nah, you probably "get it"

name directors doing tv eps doesnt usually amt to much ime, but todd haynes did the ep next week

i love love love this show and i don't seem to know anyone else in my personal life who watches it at all

i had a full-on cover-my-eyes I-CAN'T-EVEN body cringe reaction to the baby shower scene in S1

Only seen two episodes of the first season but love it so far -- thanks for the recommend, folks on this thread!

first half of the article is on girls, but the second on enlightened is decent, if brief: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2013/02/11/130211crte_television_nussbaum?currentPage=all

Home sick today, caught up on the entire two seasons and am just about to watch last week's episode.

I really like it! Amy is fucking cuckoo and bizarre and hilarious and god that baby shower scene I was hiding my face under my blanket for most of it, GOD.
I love Luke Wilson soooo much. So much. And WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THAT DIANE LADD PLAYS HER MOM? so awesome.

Anyway YAY to this show.

this ep abt tyler is amazing i swear im not crying

tyler is the best.

just found out this season is only 8 eps long :/

also todd haynes directed last night's ep! haven't watched it yet tho

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/02/19/enlightened_on_hbo_all_i_ever_wanted_was_its_best_episode_yet_watch_this.html

I read someone describe this show as "reminiscent of Dan Clowes comics." Is that at all accurate? I've never even seen a trailer for it, but if that's at all true I'm super intrigued.

Just started watching this and love it intensely. As with Chuck & Buck, Mike White seems really interested in making the audience consider the innate humanity of characters that every other movie ever uses as throw-away one-dimensional jokes. There's also the terror of societal winners getting exposed by societal rejects. Amy is really awful and really doesn't want to be, and so was Chuck, and so (maybe) was Mike White's dad, and that's fascinating stuff.

I chucked where I should have bucked. You understand anyway, right?

finally a good show on HBO

i'm like, so the right candidate for watching this show

I caught up on this a couple of weeks ago and now I'm behind again :(

http://www.vulture.com/2013/02/mike-white-on-enlightened-tough-road-to-season-three.html

I keep wanting to love this but I just don't.

the play of emotions in the last big scene in the episode, where there's this dawning revelation that she's just caught in mid-air was fantastic.

looks like we can officially change the thread title to "seasons 1-2" :(

WTF!!

:( :(

when we watched the s 2 finale it did seem verrrrry, like, done

but i just thought it was bc it was the s 2 finale

but then my boyfriend was like, you know i think that was it

i think it's over

i'm still actually pretty sad. i don't get into new shows that much anymore. this actually had a meaning, a depth.

This will probably be replaced in the line-up next winter by Mike Judge's Silicon Valley show.

as soon as i heard the v/o echoed the one from the pilot i was p sure it was over

would have loved to see more but it doesn't feel unfinished

I'm still excited to watch this, I'd always been meaning to but there are only so many hours in the day and all. Was really enthused after hearing Mike White's WTF interview.

dern is just an A+ actress, like not one moment was she out of character. scene where newspaper guy broke up with her o_O :( :|

I shotgunned both seasons of this in about a week and loved it. Just beautifully written, and acted. I'm okay with it ending, though. Not everything needs to carry on for years and years, and this story felt like it had been told. I'm more keen to see what Mike White does next.

according to white s3 would've been her dealing with all the lawsuits

oh that would have been so great.

Just watched the finale. I'm glad Eileen seems to want to give Tyler another chance. May be a good place to end, as long as MW continues to produce shows.

I don't think a season of law suit action would be very involving, tbh.

i preferred the slower pace of the first season actually. loved the dreamy episodes most of all.

How would we diagnose Amy Jellicoe?

why would you want to

why would you want to

How would we diagnose Amy Jellicoe?

― Leon Septamost, Friday, September 6, 2013 12:59 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

with science?

The show is about a protagonist who is suffering from some undefined mental illness, and I thought it'd be interesting to speculate about what, precisely, the fuck is wrong with her. And more to the point she reminds me a lot of my ex-girlfriend. So what is it? Manic depression? Borderline personality disorder? Extreme narcissist? Or just a good old fashioned fuck up?

nothing?

i think she is suffering from a condition called ~lyfe~

i really i don't think there's anything to support the idea that the character was written to have a specific mental illness or disorder. she's written as exceptionally human with deep flaws, lots of sorrow and anger, and some troubling behavioral issues, but she's also capable of deep insight, compassion, faith, and courage.

I agree about her positive traits. That's what makes her so interesting. She is also on and off psych medications, has no impulse control, and is that person about whom everyone says "Oh shit, here she comes". I haven't seen season two, but watching her struggle, sometimes obliviously, through season one I wondered what particular blend of disorder causes her ongoing self defeat.

I agree that we don't really need to diagnose her with anything, but she is pretty histrionic, if you wanna play that.

I just power watched the first two seasons and on the last two eps; this is absolutely amazing tv. wanna finish and then throw in my own two cents once i read the thread.

It's obvious why this didn't get renewed but damn, what a crime.

We just started this a couple of nights ago and are already into the second season. I feel that I may have unfairly dismissed Mike White after not being super crazy about Chuck & Buck because the writing here is amazing. And Laura Dern is amazing. And Diane Ladd is amazing, and I think the episode where she quietly wanders around the house seeing flashes of her past was one of the more amazing episodes of television that I've ever seen (and a perfect distillation of showing without telling).

Realizing that I never reported back to mention that this was easily the best show I've seen in several years. Such a shame it hit the skids so soon.

Anyway, I rewatched the first episode the other night and it occurred to me how perfect it would be to play the Golden Girls theme over a montage of Amy and Krista's awkward interactions, naturally culminating in scenes from Krista's baby shower.

There's a theater up here where one can kludge together a Mike White doubleheader of BEATRIZ AT DINNER and THE EMOJI MOVIE (he's one of three people credited as a writer on the later; the other two are the movie's, uh, masterminds)

whatever show you think is good is not actually as good as this show

^^^

Well, yeah.

I mean this might be in the all-time top ten for me. Insanely underrated/underdiscussed.

rewatching my favorite show :D

thread title makes me sad :(

anyone else watching the White Lotus, first ep was intriguing, same feeling as Enlightened where I have no idea where this show is going

seriously phenomenal so far, where are my Mike White heads at

only watched 1st ep and i was v into it!

Watched ep 1 just now and liked it, based on your (Murg) rec, and I like Mike White.

1st ep was great.

Yeah, I'm digging this. Not much of consequence has happened and I have no idea where it's going yet (and no idea what the elevator pitch could've possibly been), but I appreciate its slow unfolding. I can't imagine it lasting more than a single season (at least unless it becomes a sort of anthology) but I'll take what I can get while I get it.

it's a six-ep limited series

Ah, that makes sense. Unfortunately brief but understandable.

Oh also this show premiering prompted me to finally buy the Enlightened DVDs, only to discover that it's not just out of print but so out of print that new copies are scarce even on the secondary market. Such a shame, that show is just gonna be unceremoniously swallowed up by time.

thank u past self for buying them on sale at HMV

I KNOW A LOT OF RICH WHITE FUCKED-UP PEOPLE

As a meditation on service industry it feels pretty sharp thus far

this is a pretty great turn of events

absolutely thrilled to report that this man has a star turn in the white lotus...living well is the best revenge!!!! https://t.co/YjNc64CnwF

— rachel syme (@rachsyme) July 19, 2021

What's bizarre about that is dude's apartment seems... fine? Like, I make a good living and that's pretty much what my Zoom background looks like, what is the great shame supposed to be here?

watched 2 episodes tonight. A+ amazing.

in addition to everything else that's great about the show, Cristobal Tapia de Veer is just doing exceptional work for the soundtrack

agreed. probably overdue for a devoted thread imo.

wait, for the show or for the composer?

bc neither would make much sense as its own thread tbh imo

The former

ehh I don't see any point in making a thread for a show that's done in three weeks but if you want to make one, knock yrself out

i am starting to think maybe i dont like this show as much as i thought i did but cant pinpoint why

it's a little mean and occasionally gross and it was a lot moreso this episode, though i am still trying to give it good faith interpretation until we get a bit further down the path. Coolidge is clearly a tragic character whose pain is being played for occasionally cheap laughs but her general presumption of power makes it unclear whether using her as an exemplar of rich white lady is punching up or not.

britton's character is pretty underwritten thus far and her daughter is a weird question mark. but i am compelled!

I experience the characters on this show as real people much much more than in most other shows I watch, not sure how much of this is down to good acting and how much to writing (and I except the characters played for laffs like coolidge's and to some extent the hotel manager)

Murray Bartlett is really fantastic, was not familiar with him

I feel like somebody told him "Basil Fawlty but sympathetic, go"

the dialogue is really bothering me sometimes, characters just churn out huge chunks of exposition for reason

the whole exchange with britton & the daughter about zahn’s dad while he’s sitting there was like weird cliffs notes or something, like “for the viewers at home who arent following along THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON WITH STEVE ZAHN”

but i also love the hotel manager & the masseuse & literally every shot of the ocean so i am still going to keep watching

but also i think the Britton Zahn family isnt believable as a family because theyre so quippy & blank with each other

so maybe its just a me thing with them specifically

xpost to ums Murray was in Looking! he’s great, that was a v good show imo

the whole exchange with britton & the daughter about zahn’s dad while he’s sitting there was like weird cliffs notes or something, like “for the viewers at home who arent following along THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON WITH STEVE ZAHN”

See I totally bought this, the mom disclosing that information clearly not having discussed with the dad whether he wanted it disclosed, the daughter experimenting with how it feels being pretty mean to her dad but in a "come on just having fun" kind of way, set up as a companion piece to her interaction with the hedge-fund husband splashing her at the pool, which interaction said husband later explains to peeved wife as "just giving them shit"

Looking is secretly one of the great tv shows

otm!

I wonder if one reason I experience the characters as real people is that (again excepting Coolidge) I don't think I've seen any of these actors in anything before

i've seen basically every actor in this show in a different hbo show lol

Looking was a great show, I forgot that he was in that. Great actor.

I love this show, partly because the last time we went to maui we stayed next door to this resort (this is the Four Seasons); we did eat over there a few times and walked through it enough for it all to be familiar.

I agree that Britton is underwritten so far but figure it might focus on her a bit more in the second half. It is hard too say what the overriding 'story' of the show is, but I kind of don't care because I enjoy the writing so much and Mike White really does write great characters.

it always takes me a moment to register when connie britton is meant to be playing an unsympathetic character because i know and love her from her role as saint on earth tami taylor in friday night lights

yeah I'm kind of willing to give her character all kinds of credit because I am in love with her

I wouldn't describe her character in this show as wholly unsympathetic

nb, i haven't seen episode 3 yet

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/mike-white-on-money-status-and-appearing-on-survivor

yet to arrive as a cast member: molly shannon

:D

Oh yeah, my wife clocked her voice on the phone, loving her late career Renaissance.

that nyer interview was great

ep3 was really good & hilarious imo

Agree the interview was really good. Fascinating that the college girls are in some ways the characters he identifies with (which makes sense, since he is, in some ways, the hardest on them.)

"we have a stylist pick them out" was a great line

The sound in this show is really intense

this made me lol

MELFI: and this tv program makes you anxious

TONY: jennifer cooler's crying, this one's fuckin mother in law showed up, and then you got the music

MELFI: what about the music

TONY: THEYRE JUST SITTING ON THE FUCKIN BEACH, WHY'S THE MUSIC SCARY?

— Ben Rosen (@ben_rosen) August 9, 2021

Really no more discussion? Loved this show

Yeah, it didn't hit the heights of Enlightened but I enjoyed it very much.

Has been renewed for a second season, btw. Apparently as a season-long anthology of sorts, as the second season will take place at another White Lotus property with an all-new cast. It's more Mike White so I'll take it.

Loved Uncle Rico as Tanya's terminally ill boyfriend.

still remember him best from Real Genius.

was great, but Rachel's change of heart seemed pretty out of the blue, I felt like it needed an additional scene in there. also a bit surprised they let Shane leave so quickly.

Good interview with Mike White:
https://www.vulture.com/article/the-white-lotus-finale-mike-white-interview-departures-ending.html

This was really good. Not as good as Enlightened but what is? I like the way no one in it was let off the hook.

was great, but Rachel's change of heart seemed pretty out of the blue,

From the White interview:

Some people read it as cynical; to me, the thing that I feel about Shane is that even though he is a privileged asshole, he does really love her. Even if it’s just an idea of her.

This is how I feel about it too -- remember, Rachel dated this guy for months and married him -- it's the "this guy's an asshole and I can't spend my life with him" that was an out-of-the-blue change of heart! I think the genius of Lacy's portrayal is that he makes Shane a huge asshole and SIMULTANEOUSLY a person you might actually fall in love with and want to make a life with.

That's kind of the strength of White's work all over. His characters are often deeeeeply flawed but drawn with enough nuance that they maintain their humanity/relatability. Shane is an enormous asshole but he's not just like a straight-up villain. Like no one is really blameless or wholly to blame for the circumstances they find themselves in.

I feel like somebody told him "Basil Fawlty but sympathetic, go"

ha ha vg

had never seen Bartlett in anything before, skimming his resume I guessed this might be the first time he's used his own accent in two decades?

Coolidge kinda took the Amy Jellicoe role this time around where she initially seemed like a comic relief caricature but got some more nuanced and sympathetic development. And then she got to end on a pretty assholish note of her own (which I called from the moment poor Belinda perked up at the idea of getting her own business).

Bartlett was great. I've never seen him in anything before, either. I hope his career gets a deserved boost from this.

Quick thoughts...

-I didn't read Rachel as having a change of heart, I thought it was her being too confused/unsure/scared to go through with it especially after Belinda walked out the door on her, where one might then think "wow I must have sounded totally insane?".
-I agree Shane wasn't a "straight-up villain" UNTIL they had his character start brazenly hitting on the girls that he hadn't previously talked to before, right in front of Rachel. That seemed like a cheap "let's make sure the audience knows this guy is a piece of shit" move. My wife brought up that it could potentially be him acting out due to their conversation that morning, but it still felt a bit out of nowhere vs. his other spoiled acting out up to that point and after.

yeah I think in if Rachel had been able to talk to someone sympathetic or someone close to her who knew her, she probably would have left

but with Belinda already (understandably) having had a gutfull of white ppl problems, her dismissal made Rachel question herself

also aside from Shane she’s alone in this place, isolated with no friends or anyone to talk to - that will for sure undermine your confidence when you are in need of valudation & in a fragile frame of mind. left to your own devices, one could very easily talk themselves into a change of heart.

and besides, in a very doomed way she’s the kind of character for whom both things can be true: she’s unhappy in her marriage & she loves him

yeah I think in if Rachel had been able to talk to someone sympathetic or someone close to her who knew her

I think there's a hint in that phone conversation with her mom that her mom is not actually as different from Shane's mom as she (and no doubt also Shane's mom) would like to think

the mother inlaw was like, everything i would be terrified of

if i was rachel i probably just would have walked into the ocean & ended my life, not even botheted trying to tackle divorce

like just feeding on that poor girl’s defenseless psyche like a succubus. and the mother inlaw WITH shane, talking to rachel about her life? i would wish no less than a swift & painless death

also my other thought abt rachel was just seeing so starkly how hard it is to say what you want confidently, & demand it, when you havent ever lived your life that way

*bothered

i wanted paula to get dragged more for her actions

like i get hating that family for their privilege (fairly) but the way she flexed her own on that dude as a tool for her own weird vengeance.
like “hmmm no i cant stay with you i have to go to college but i’m going to wave my wand for you & you steal this jewelry from this shitty family because it’ll make your life better i promise”

like i think she kind of despised him a little bit too being corny & wanting her to stay w him

idk

i think at least paula knows she did a terrible, stupid thing that destroyed kai's life. she's not as different from the family she was with as she would like to think. she really liked kai but she has college and a "real life" likely in some big city (i don't remember if they mentioned where they went to college) and staying in some peripheral place like hawaii was just not an option for her.

and her plan to "help" him was her being naive, quite patronizing and frankly dangerous/stupid

Yeah, almost glaringly so.

And that's one aspect of what I mentioned upthread about no one on this show being completely to blame or completely blameless. Like Kai was definitely done dirty by Paula but at the same time he must've had many similar opportunities previously (given his level of access to rich peoples' private space) that he never took advantage of.

yes, he for sure is to blame also but it's something he never would've done without her suggestion. and there was an imbalance of power there, both because she's a guest and he's a service worker, and because he clearly was falling in love with her.

the one thing about this show that always annoyed me: that family was too rich that they would've just had a one bedroom suite for 5 people!!!!!

YES

omg yes

honestly 90% of why i watched this show all the way through was to get a weekly fix of ocean footage

and because he clearly was falling in love with her.

idk abt this, figured Kai wld be happily boning his way through a different daughter or daughter’s friend every week. I assumed he was totally thrown by her expressing concern about his continued existence after she left for a change

as a bonus, here is an exchange from that conversation that was edited out, but which I know has been the source of some questions #TheWhiteLotus https://t.co/W2MV9mq8qv pic.twitter.com/sSsxFKWqEO

— Kathryn VanArendonk (@kvanaren) August 16, 2021

^ re why the family was in a 1 bedroom suite

i loved every second of this show & it should have its own thread frankly but it did feel a little off the way that quinn's story became more dominant over the course of the season culminating in being the final shot. like, "kid who is glued to screen and then is exposed to nature and has his world changed" is prob the least interesting social/cultural phenomenon being explored in the show, to me. i liked him running off at the end bcuz it sort of begs you to picture a version of home alone 4 being spun off from white lotus but ending the show w/ a shot of them all rowing in the canoe felt a bit ham handed to me. otherwise, no notes!

i actually thought there was an ambiguity in the final scene between rachel and shane, the way that rachel says "i'm going to be happy. don't worry about me. i will be happy." left me wondering whether she was referring to getting back into the relationship or her life after him, trying to make him feel like he wasn't to blame. but then i watched the little thing after the episode and mike white was talking about them being back together.

oh i missed that ambiguity but you're right, and I think the ambiguity works even if IN THAT MOMENT she has decided they're staying together, surely it's clear that the matter is not Now Settled For Good

yeah quinn’s arc was a deep eyeroll for me

also i cant imagine having Quinn on the longboat crew helped at all except maybe as ballast lol

new thread here: “Sorry That Chaise Is Taken. But You’re A Very Pretty Man”: A Thread for White Lotus on HBOMax

xp As with everything White does I ask myself "what is NOT on screen (because it's not in Quinn's mind) about what the other canoe rowers actually think about Quinn?" Seems relevant and is part of the arc.

great thread title

if someone would maybe c&p all the convo itt over to the new thread aka the pineapple suite that would be great

I can't think of any other series with such a bizarre POV and treatment of its main character. Are we meant to sympathize/empathize with her? Are we meant to agree with her? Is she a hero? If so then why is she so fucking annoying? Why does it so often seem like it is mocking her?

― akm, Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:54 PM (eight years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I am watching this show now and am about here^ with my assessment so a little confused. Also very amused there is a post from 2013 that is so exactly a print out of my current thoughts watching this.

I kind of hate it when people say things like this, but: that ambiguity was the point of the show imo

That's kind of neat, but it's a weird experience!

Beyond the ambiguity in and of itself, I think there is a point in there about the Catch-22 of intolerable people and obnoxious behavior being necessary in order to take a stand against the things in our world that are intolerable and obnoxious. But it has been a long time since I watched the show

eh not really a catch-22. remove that part of the sentence

it's a weird experience!

Definitely, it's a singular show. I haven't watched White Lotus yet so I don't know how similar they are, but I think Dern should get a lot of credit for why Enlightened is so striking, though I also think the supporting cast are all really great (I esp love the manager guy who was also on Undeclared).

intolerable people and obnoxious behavior being necessary in order to take a stand against the things in our world that are intolerable and obnoxious

Yes exactly. I think at a macro thematic level the show is about what it means to be good/ethical in a corrupt world where most people would prefer not to think about the bad/unethical. But then because it's not just a morality play, they smartly choose to make Dern's character complicated and not easy to root for. So you're forced to think through why you find her "fucking annoying"

my feelings about that show obviously changed after that post, and I'm more comfortable now with the ambiguity with which White treats his characters.

i loved this show, tempted to rewatch to see how MY feelings have changed

S1 e4 is good, Luke Wilson does coke in a motel and tells a long loud story about a dog jumping into a lake, then Laura dern hugs a pillow and starts crying

haven't watched in forever but i do remember those luke wilson scenes playing a key role in making the whole show feel more light and floaty and surreal. so much more nuanced and hard to pin down than white lotus

TIL mike white is the guy across from Dern at her work lol

also really enjoyed robin wright as hippie friend