rolling vitamins and supplements thread

here's what i've been taking every day so that i can be a superman:

ginkgo
astragalus
dhea
5-htp
grape seed
gaba
rhodiola extract
lecithin
men power vitamins (which include all your a & b vitamins and minerals and also stuff like beta carotine, betaine, bioflavonoids, boron, choline, fiber, glutamic acid, paba, rutin, silica, alfalfa, nettles, ashwaganda root, pumpkin seed, tribulus terrestis, muira puama, eleutherococcus, spirulina, chiorella, iceland moss, sarsparilla, quercetin, Co-Q10, lutein, pine bark extract, green tea leaf extract, hawthorn berry extract, dmae, and other stuff.)

feel pretty super. but i'm always looking for tips on cool brain drugs i can get at the local health food store, so lemme know if you got any hot ones.

also, do you take stuff everyday and what the hell is it?

fuck this noise man just eat food

not drinking anymore (the occasional tipple, not even once a month though) has made me feel like i should try to be more super.

i eat food too.

i love my leafy greens.

haven't been sick a day this winter. knock wood. knock knock knock.

all right buddy, don't mind me, go with god

it's an experiment! like lance armstrong only i don't have to ride a stupid bike.

riding a bike >>>>>>>>> new-agey rabbit food elixirs

tell that to the chinese! go ahead, tell them. i'll wait here. well, i guess they do ride bikes AND take ancient herbs and spices...but still go tell them that.

i did!

okay, what did they say?

it was gibberish. i take a multivitamin sometimes but it smells awful cuz its got saw palmetto or some shit in it. i also take fish oil capsules sometimes. mostly i eat garbage :)

I've been drinking liquid acidophilus (probiotics) and it's done wonders for my possible IBS.

I take

Magnesium
Alpha Lipoic acid
Digestive enzymes with every meal (I don't have a gallbladder)
Biotin
Zinc
5-HTP
CoQ10
Fish oil

Oh I also take apple cider vinegar, which is kinda like a supplement in my book.

holy toledo what happened to your gallbladder!? if you don't mind my asking...

if its personal, i'll understand. i thought everyone got one.

The most wonderful of those two, that I really notice the benefits of are the 5-HTP and the Zinc. The Zinc has made my skin look incredible. 5-HTP has really made me feel emotionally more stable and less prone to gloominess.

Scott, I had gallstones when I was 20 and had to have it removed!

wow, 20. you would think that would happen when you were old. ouch!

I supplement my diet with B-complex, C, and D, plus I take a multi-vitamin with some trace minerals. That, and the occasional bottle of irish whiskey. I figure my body will discard most of the B, C & D, but I don't mind. I just like to keep its supply topped up.

lion's mane a mushroom for your brane

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-stamets/mushroom-memory_b_1725583.html

ooh, good tip. my brain needs all the help it can get. years of teen drugs and then booze and then oxygen deprivation via uncorrected sleep apnea have made me slow and i want to get a little quicker before its too late.

D vitamins won't be pissed out, it's a fat soluble vitamin.
I'm bad about supplementing regularly, but I take 100,000iu daily when I'm starting to get sick/am sick and it seems to shorten anything that might be wrong.

vitamin d in winter, thats it

anyone try piracetam? my buddy has a scary looking bottle of it. looks super sketch.

I looked at nootropics but couldn't separate the results from placebo effects - except that they all said something about lowering libido and fuck that noise

astragalus is what people i know swear by if you don't want to get sick. and i take it every day like clockwork. and i haven't gotten sick at all this winter. but that might be coincidence. i also got a flu shot, thank god. people in bed for 2 weeks, jesus, i can't afford that kind of time.

can't hurt anyway. i'm in semi-public all day (my store ain't exactly walmart as far as traffic goes, but i get plenty of coughers and sneezers coming in.)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/doctors-confirm-flu-shot-disabled-woman-as-carrey-mccarthy-lend-support.html

rip scott

i got a flu shot this year, hope i get disabled :)

do most ilxors get flu shots? i haven't followed the jenny mccarthy thread lately.

we all got really sick, like, 3 winters ago? i dunno what it was but it was scary. hate when the kids have high fevers. might have been a flu. definitely felt like it.

i take two 5-htp before bed (esp after drinking, really helps w/ the hangover)

5-htp gives me A++++ dreams when I take it, don't know if I get any other benefit

I've tried it on occasion, really shouldn't mix it with ssris, though. I had a phenomenal nightmare one of the last times I took it!

take 5-htp and some magnesium before you go to bed and you will have trippy dreams. maybe even lucid dreams. good combo though.

does st. john's wort have any real effect? i usually include it in the battery of vitamins i take but idk if it does anything.

st. john's bunion

oh right i take st. john's wort every day too. forgot that one. i have no idea if it works.

when i would try and stop smoking i would take ALL that stuff. st. johns wort. calmes forte. valerian root. and pot of course. tons of pot. hahahaha!

that last one is very effective

like w/ these "mood enhancing" herbs i'm never sure if they work b/c maybe i am just having a shitty day anyway

oh you had a car accident i'm sorry, take some st. john's wort and some valerian tea and call me in the morning

yeah I've heard this marijuana one has some studies behind it

rhodiola works for a quick pick me up! especially if you take double the amount you're supposed to take.

Yall are scary ignorant.http://consumerreports.org sorts all this shit out. You can see some of the articles for free, though you gotta subscribe to the site to see the ratings: like $6.95 a month, although you can cancel before being charged for the second month--worth it, even with the sometimes cranky search function. They don't rate pot yet, even for medicinal uses, but still.

idk man, I only trust the Good Housekeeping Institute

lol xp

I dunno, evidence is pretty solid for vitamin D, probiotics (for certain things), zinc, magnesium and maybe 5-htp (depending on use - I use it as a sleep aid when my schedule is out of wack).

i think vitamin d is ok for winter but taking c/d when you already have a cold, i dunno. i don't take anything ever and i'm ok. i never get a flu shot because i'm neglectful and avoid medical attention at all times, not because i don't believe in vaccines.

how old are you? i didn't go to a doctor once in my 20's and 30's. probably should have a couple of times. anyway when you get older you start getting hit with weird sruff.

who cares if supps are effective or not, they can trigger your placebo effect, at the very least it's on par with eating shit like this on a daily basis: http://www.fda.gov/forindustry/coloradditives/coloradditiveinventories/ucm115641.htm

28. i should go. i have a list of things like a wart on my foot and eczema or something in my ear and i need to have my wisdom teeth out and i hate everyone. and i want to be sterilized!

in the last two years i've taken antibiotics twice (nasal infection and tooth infection) and i had never taken them before in my life. cuz i was scared of them. but i got better both times and i was really not well due to infection. so now i'm old enough where i'll take anything. i don't give a fuck. i'm all for medicine.

yeah, shit, 28, i just lived on booze and cigarettes and cheesesteaks. i didn't know what a doctor was.

i'm for medicine i just don't like to talk to strangers :/

i feel judged

not really a supplement, but thai iced tea is both effective and delicious.

i had two huge molars yanked out a month or two ago. fucking trauma. it was horrible. and the doctor was an asshole. ALL because i didn't go to a dentist in my 20s and have my wisdom teeth taken out. my wisdom teeth were gouging the molars and rotting them out. A WORD TO THE WISE. and i had the infection cuzza that. i made the pain pills last. lost weight. went paleo. started downing my gaba pills. i'm gonna live forever.

Yall are scary ignorant.

Nutritional science is renowned for changing its mind at least once every 10 years and varying its conventional wisdom rather radically, like a drunk walking home in the dark. What would be ignorant is thinking that nutritional studies in their current incarnation are a reliable guide to how to sustain health. Ain't no web site that has all the answers.

Ain't no web site that has all the answers.

Actually ...

http://www.highqualityevidence.org/

Ok partially kidding, but there are Things That We Know (Or Have Good Reason To Believe.) Yes, scientists change their mind sometimes.

Evidence is great stuff, such as it is, but those answers are undoubtedly a moving target, because bodies are just as complicated as brains.

If something tastes good and is purportedly good for you, if it turns out it's not, at least it tasted good. #HEDGINGYOURBETS

if you're gonna be all HAHA YOU GUYS ARE SUCKERS FOR ASTRALAGUS but then turn around and scarf down on a hungryman tv dinner loaded with sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate and then finish it off with a blue raspberry slurpee

all i know is i'm getting me some of that big-ass mushroom linked to up top asap!

https://mycotopia.net/forums/attachments/wild-mushrooming-field-forest/62166d1161368085-hericium-erinaceus-%5Blions-mane-mushroom-bearded-tooth-mushroom-hedgehog-mushroom%5D-100_1364.jpg

oh shit i totally had a hungry man t.v. dinner for dinner tonight...

i am so busted...

that blue raspberry slurpee is chockful of antioxidants

just had no time to shop or cook. i made a lovely home-cooked meal last night.

No, no site has all the answers, but what they say makes sense and is based on research--and I don't mean just experimenting on yousefl with shiny objects, although we all gotta do some of that--best evidence, put it like that. And yeah some of it changes, but the basics are pretty well established: not too much red meat (incl pork), not too much sugar (i ration myself one sweet a day, not counting fruit, which has suger, but also fiber, vitamins, etc)(not fruit juice, which usually has way too much sugar), plenty vegetables, not much bread. Don't overdo the vitamins: I take a half a multi a day, Kirkland, because they're almost the only United States Pharmacy verified re combining and dissolving just as they should, although most multi's are better than nothing if you don't overdo 'em. (You prob get enough Vitamin D if you get sunlight, although winter's a good time to supplement). Flu shots, yes. St John's Wort and some other shit can be dangerous; check the site or don't.

ive been taking a fish/flax/borage oil supp for like ~3-4 months now. no idea if it's doing anything beneficial but i'll prob keep it up

i think i heard a study that in addition to w/e other benefits they have that they helped memory so that couldnt hurt as a counterbalance 2 also regularly smoking weed

i like the idea of structuring + and - supplement intake

re: you probably get enough sunlight, afaik most Americans are deficient in D and maybe magnesium. The not-deficient level of D is pretty low to start with.

The most wonderful of those two, that I really notice the benefits of are the 5-HTP and the Zinc. The Zinc has made my skin look incredible.

― homosexual II, Monday, January 28, 2013 3:25 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my skin is fine but i like the idea of taking zinc maybe i will. my grandfather worked @ a zinc company his whole life and just turned 100 3 wks ago and is i think in better health than i am

just eat magnets and sunbeams

zinc makes my mom projectile vomit so i've always avoided it just in case

gaba talk. could be snake oil. who really knows for sure? i bought it for the snazzy name:

http://extrahappiness.com/happiness/?p=3582

150 years ago we didn't know what vitamin d is nowadays nobody lives past 900 what a bullshit existence

Sorry to get cranky. Back in college, I was messing myself up, til I met this girl, a nutrition major, who made me read Diet For A Small Planet and try some of the simple tips about eating right. I did, and felt so much better. Do that, and you don't really need vitamin supplements much--yeah, some vitamin D when you can't get much sunlight--but she also worked at the University Clinic, and saw a guy who couldn't figure out why his tongue was black (way too much D; stopped taking it and tongue went back to normal), another guy who took so many Vitamin C tabs his palms turned orange; a couple guys had scurvy. Guys and girls were anorexic; guys and girls blew out their kidneys during the Great Liquid Protein Diet Blizzard of '79 (diets, jeez).

It didn't help that Sir Humphrey Osmond, who coined the term "psychedelic", was concurrently running the main state mental hospital next door, and advocating mega-vitamin therapy as, well, not cure-all maybe, but cure lots! All around the town.

i get a B12 shot every couple of months. i seem to sleep better and have more energy for about a week or so after getting one. and they're only 10 bucks so i figure wth.

i do probiotics capsules(and need to be better about it). maybe i should try the liquid?

i have some fish oil capsules but i always forget to take them. and when i do they give me nasty burps. i eat ground flax seed practically daily so i'm probably good.

could probably use some extra vitamin D during the winter months....

<i>ive been taking a fish/flax/borage oil supp for like ~3-4 months now. no idea if it's doing anything beneficial but i'll prob keep it up</i>

One of the things I've been trying to wrap my brain around for a few months is the Omega-6:Omega-3 ratio. Short story is that it should be as close to 4:1 or 1:1 as possible, problem being that the overabundance of polyunsaturated veg oils means that most Westerners are at something like 20:1 O6 to O3 and hence vulnerable to persistent inflammation. Flax, while awesome in some ways, contributes to maintaining the 6 dominance even though it's touted as a source of O3 (and also acts as estrogen, which if you're a guy might be undesirable). I offer this just as a suggestion, but I'd go with the 3s (fish) alone to try to bring that ratio back in line, since you're most likely over the top with 6 as it is.

Typically when we think about supplements it's because a study comes out saying 'substance X was found in more quantity in healthy people' and that gets taken as 'right, let's take more of X, and we'll become healthier'. Which is fine, that's how our brains work and we can't help it - but as far as I can tell the reality is a lot more subtle and fiendishly complicated (like pharmaceuticals which act as completely different drugs just depending on dosage amount and whatever else you combine them with) and has to do with ratios and your ability to actually metabolise the stuff in the first place - food is always preferable to pills, and the pills you do take, half the time you can't even get to use what's in them. Most multivitamins actually work against themselves as some ingredients prevent the absorption of the other.

After gobbling just about anything for years, now I'm down to Omega-3s (ideally as low in the food chain as possible like krill, always chilled to preserve) when I'm not eating tons of salmon which isn't often, alpha lipoic (the R-fraction when I can get it; the widely available stuff you can't break down to use efficiently) in combo with acetyl l-carnitine on an empty stomach, D since I live up north (not 100K IU though, that's ... a lot).

Intrigued by HTP, though, will probably get on that. And the zinc, I wonder what that's about too, will read up.

i take cysteine caps after after a night of heavy drinking. they seem to help with the particularly nasty hangovers. like the kind that hurt so bad i can't get back to sleep after my morning whiz.

ha i guess i need to take a closer look at my Omega6/ Omega3 ratio

ya thx 4 that, will ~think abt~ my estrogen levels now

lovely lady lumps

I think the problem is that one or two studies indicate there may be a positive to a particular thing and the diet/holistic medicine/marketing people jump on it like there's no tomorrow, every time, with no idea whether having these things in massive quantities (and not those in the study) is a good thing. Like everyone has green tea extract and antioxidants and all this shit in everything now because they're the magic bullet for all your ills, but that's probably mostly bullshit.

I could go off on my tear about how a lot of "organic farming" and other shit is snake oil and wishful thinking by people who think there's a magical, non-measurable difference that's huge between their vegetables and normal store-bought ones but that's a story for another day.

that is even worse with SUPERFOODS imo - YOU NEED BLUE-GREEN ALGAE and BLUEBERRIES NOW to STOP CANCER

acaiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeee

I'm never going to go on my full crop rant on ilx because I post from work sometimes and work in the ag sector. Not that I'm 100% mr. positivity on such things, but sheesh.

VG otm

I dunno if I'd fault anybody for that bandwagoning - you have to spend a ridiculous amount of time to *understand* what the hell the mechanism is, only to find out the answer isn't 200mg x + 100mg y = immortal superman, but a broad recommendation like 'have fish, veg and wine instead of meat, grains, and beer for a change' which is hard to make money on. Also if I were pushing, say, krill, I'd feel pretty good about myself because I'd be helping people in my mind, which would make me want to continue pushing krill.

It's easier for marketers if we think in terms of a machine ('more octane better'), then somebody can sell us something (high octane gas), which is handy because simple machine metaphors are about all we have time to really grasp. The reality is just more work to understand and more confusing, and is often a trade-off rather than a certainty. It's murkier and has a lot to do with everything ELSE you're doing besides the pills (holistic), but the doc writes you a scrip because that's all they can do in the time allotted to understanding you.

Vitamin B-12 for vegans, vitamin D for anyone living outside the tropics, and (still a subject of debate) EPA/DHA for those not eating cold-water wild fish. But everyone should get the bulk of their micronutrients and beneficial phytochemicals from whole foods, esp. greens, bulbs, nuts, mushrooms, fruit/berries and tea. Some supplement recommendations from one of the most knowledgeable experts I'm aware of.

Otherwise, the scientific evidence for supplementation is largely negative (either placebo effect or worse health outcomes than no supplementation). As one cautionary tale, it was once speculated that since cancer rates were lower in people that ate foods high in the anti-oxidant beta-carotene, that beta-carotene might be a useful nutritional adjunct for cancer patients. Turns out the lung cancer patients had significantly higher mortality. Why? Well, beta-carotene is one of 50 known carotenes that are absorbed by a similar pathway, and perhaps the excess beta-carotene was downregulating absorption of the others. This guy errs too far in the anti-supplement camp IMO, but offers a useful summary of some of the research.

B-12 and D are the two notable exceptions in the literature, and its perhaps not a coincidence that they're the only two vitamins not found naturally in plants (B12 is produced by soil bacteria, D is a hormone formed by skin exposure to UV). And as vitamin D serum levels exhibit a U-shaped mortality curve, its perhaps best to exercise moderation there as well.

http://www.runnersworld.com/sites/default/files/files/2012/06/vitamin-D-and-mortality.jpg

As for herbal supplements/medications, some work. Can't recommend Holly Phaneuf's Herbs Demystified enough as a biochemist's review of the scientific evidence for efficacy and mechanism of action for some 56 herbs (including a few fruits, seeds, vegetables and spices).

Anecdotally, and since its mentioned a few times above, I tried 5-HTP for 6 months. Didn't notice any change, but I've been on high-dose SSRIs for decades, and I'm likely eating enough tryptophan (its in pretty much every food protein, not just turkey). Tryptophan -> 5-HTP -> serotonin, so its just bypassing one step, but I guess if you had anomalously low levels of tryptophan hydroxylase 2 it might make a difference.

Thanks for all this - good stuff on the D. Looks like 2K IU gets you right in the optimum range.

industrial seed oils are the worst. once you start trying to avoid sugar, soybean oil, corn oil, canola oil, etc - you see that they are fucking everywhere in pre-packaged, processed foods. Even the ones at 'health food' stores.

and I definitely notice the benefits of my supplements, so I am going to continue to take them

i'd totally start experimenting on myself if i had the ££ to spend, i find nootropics v interesting. cuz i'm poor i just take a multivitamin most days (berocca), which has made a significant difference to my energy levels and mood.

i'm always wary with scientific reports on these kind of things. obv i'll always use them to help judge whether or not something's gonna kill me but as to efficacy- i'd rather just try it myself and see.

i always assumed my vitamin intake was enough, i graze on fruits and nuts all day at work, usually salad for lunch, drink all the healthy teas and have a healthy meat/fish meal most evenings. so it was quite a shock to see what effect taking a berocca each morning had on me!

(okay i do smoke in the evenings and don't usually get more than 5 hours sleep so that's probably the thing i should change)

I'm interested in your distaste for seed oils, homoII! Are you attempting to avoid all deep-fried foods, or prefer foods fried/cooked in other oils, or do you just not like oils?

this thread is interesting, outside of vitamin d i don't know wtf most of u are talking about. my friend's mom died of EMS from contaminated l-tryptophan supplements, it took months, she was in agony, and well, i'm not really into the idea of supplementing too much.

peanut oil is supposed to be best for making the tastiest of fries, so i'm going to assume they have some kind of health benefit as well.

mh they are really laden with omega 6's, go rancid easily, and generally lead to inflammation and weight gain for me

I prefer foods cooked in saturated fat - coconut oil or butter.

Mum was alway super anti-vitamin, so I've never really done much with them. I took b12 when I had a run of mouth ulcers a few years back. but since I started adding more leafy greens and nuts and veggies to my diet I feel generally better anyway.

I think if I had any stomach complaints or whatnot I'd probably investigate vitamin treatments over meds.

so basically high oleic/low linolenic fats?

I don't know about the rancid/omega 6 thing, but I might just be tasteblind to such things.

i heard coconut oil was super bad for some reason which is a shame, because it is tasty.

h II:

Canola oil is 1:2 ALA:LA, and doesn't seem to have the immediate adverse effects on endothelial function most other dietary oils seem to. Walnuts and flax (high in ALA) seem to improve endothelial function. Suggest you look at Vogel's work with the brachial artery tourniquet test, which has been pretty influential. Among the 1929 articles on flow mediated dilatation at pubmed, you're likely to find some on your food of interest.

Most other added oils (corn, cottonseed, sunflower, safflower, soybean, and yes olive) in the standard American diet are pretty terrible, and researchers regularly induce cardiovascular disease in animal models with palm and coconut oil.

kind of feel like with most of these things unless you're eating tons of any specific ingredient or vitamin it's going to have a negligible effect on your health unless there's a specific known mechanism in human metabolism that's going to react

Oh yeah, if you're not going to eat your polyunsaturated fat (canola, flax, hemp, walnut, DHA/EPA pills) within a month or two, stick it in the refridgerator or freezer. The same unsaturated bonds which lower their freezing point increase their rate of oxidation. Flax is the worst here - applied to furniture its oxidizes to a linseed oil finish, applied to as cast-iron cookware its a perfect seasoning.

On the bright side, they're oxidizing because they're not hydrogenated or partially-hydrogenated for shelf stability!

Kind of coincidentally I was just reading this profile of a total bullshit-endorsing television douche, "Dr. Oz": http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/02/04/130204fa_fact_specter?currentPage=all

guys ... dontt know how to break it to you but ... were all gonna die someday

otm

乒乓, there are worse ways of going than a brief bout of pneumonia following roughly 90 active years. I've witnessed them. Eating well is not about living forever, its about reducing chance for all the things that can make the last third of whatever span you've got a misery to self and others.

http://www.alcademics.com/2013/01/good-booze-bad-booze.html

Chronic health problems are the pits. A good diet helps to eliminate a good chunk of most common chronic stuff, or at least it greatly reduces your odds of getting them. There's still a long list of stuff that can happen to you, even if you could eat a theoretically optimal diet (no one quite knows what that is, though).

As Sanpaku says, it def isn't about living forever; it's just about trying to avoid some of the more avoidable misery. btw, Aeschylus died when an eagle dropped a tortoise on his head.

Canola is more fun if you go ahead and call it rapeseed oil.

I have a difficult time with choosing fats. Lately I've just been using as little ghee as I can when I need fat/oil for cooking.
I need to revive the Nutrition Nazi thread for sardine suggestions - eating them straight from the can is pretty dull, but I like them as a source of good fat. I dunno if sauteeing or anything works. Fresh sardines are unavailable around here.

Also, fuck Dr. Oz, that guy is the absolute worst.

i had a really weird reaction to fruit today! one of those big-ass grapefruits that's not really a grapefruit? i forget what they're called. my throat felt weird, my stomach gor weird and uncomfortable, and my hands had a strange reaction from peeling/handling. they got all dry and chapped. maybe i'm allergic to those big things. i should just take fruit supplements. hahaha! also, that fruit smelled like airplane glue. had a hard time washing the smell off of my hands.

so, you know, just be careful with your fruit. okay?

pomelo?

I love pomelos

that's the culprit. i usually love them too.

smelled like airplane glue

This alone is a very good reason not to eat it. Your nose was waving its imaginary robotic arms, saying "Danger, Will Robinson!"

i will be supplementing tonight with a new herbal medicinal product called "3 Kings" that has never been tested on animals. (hybrid of kush + sour diesel + headband)

its all the rage at the better medical clinics in california.

pomelos smell great fyi you probably got a bad one

I'm convicned that pocari sweat's flavor is based off of pomelos http://i.imgur.com/TNNDFFi.jpg

i go on and off the pot train. it really does depend on how i feel physically. i HAVE to feel right in mind and body to smoke pot. and i never overdo it and only at night after kids and dog and cat go to sleep. it can be stimulating though. and make my aching bones feel better. i lift a lot of records all day long. music listening and netflix while high mostly. i'm a wild man. and since we don't do the booze anymore, a bit of a treat. i try to find the fine wine varieties.

you know, since we are talking about herbal remedies on here...

dr oz does suck, and has been on TV for like 20 years so I don't really think he's a trusted source for medical advice

"I need to revive the Nutrition Nazi thread for sardine suggestions - eating them straight from the can is pretty dull, but I like them as a source of good fat. I dunno if sauteeing or anything works. Fresh sardines are unavailable around here."

The Asian market by me usually carries frozen sardines from California for around $1.50 in a pound package. They are pretty good grilled. I just copy this recipe.

http://www.foodrepublic.com/2012/04/19/grilled-sardines-charred-lemon-chiles

oooh, good call, I never think to check for frozen (at Whole Foods or the Asian markets), thanks

Dr. Oz is totally creepy.

i had already thought he was a shithead before i read that he had some ex-gay movement supporter on his show for the sake of "hearing all views"

all I know of Dr Oz is the hilarious clips from the Soup of him making women describe their poops or making a giant colon for them to walk through

but yeah, totally creepy

People who cling on to one scientific study, when it has repeatedly been show to be biased, based on incorrect observations, or otherwise flawed, because they choose to believe there's some conspiracy of scientists, are pretty much the worst thing in my world.

It's kind of up with "I have a feeling about this, and that supersedes alternate ideas and evidence"

My mom thinks Oz is hot. Gross, mom.

I've caught a few episodes of Oz and its a weird mix of sound advice and screaming headlines of "this little pill will save your life". My stepmother isn't too critical a viewer, and buys into the mango seed extracts, black tea, or green coffee fads Oz creates without so much as glance at the underlying research. Case in point: she saw a ebullient story about mango seed extract for weight loss on Oz, based on a single study from the University of Yaounde, Cameroon, and suddenly the whole family gets bottles of powdered mango seeds (not even the product under investigation). Mind you, there may be something to mango seeds, or it may just be an attempt to find a use for agricultural by products. I can say its way too early to embrace something that could just as easily have hepatotoxic long-term effects.

See, this is worse than just giving misinformation to me, because if you decry advice like that as harmful, then there's the built-in counterargument that if he's so bad, why is he giving a lot of the same advice doctors are?

No way to tell the garbage from the useful advice.

It seems like Oz get roped in by his wife and other producers, with the end result looking like the nightly news during sweeps week. And surgeons are not the most circumspect of medical professionals (1, 2, 3, and I could go on).

How do mango seeds taste? I tried apricot "almonds" once and they tasted like death

The mango seed powder stepmom sent came in gelatin capsules and smelled of dusty flour. Evidently the seeds themselves can be ground into toothpaste.

In 1993, the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets tested the cyanide content of two 220 gram (8oz) packages of apricot kernels that were imported from Pakistan and were being sold in health-food stores as a snack. The results showed that each package, if consumed entirely, contained at least double the minimum lethal dosage of cyanide for an adult human.

Jesus trader joes what were you thinking?!

sure, but if you were training to make yourself immune to cyanide what better way to start?

EXACTLY!

On the other hand, if you wanted to solve all your health problems in one fell swoop, I recommend eating at least two of those packages in one sitting.

Cyanide poisoning caused by ingestion of apricot seeds is evidently a regular problem for Turkish ER doctors.

holy shit

Mum used to make apricot jam when we were kids, and she'd sit us out on the back porch with hammers, smashing the stones so she could put the kernels in the jam

I ingested a good amount of apricot kernels in my youth O_o

but I'm still here so yay cyanide immunity?

Never eat anything.

How does it feel being an immortal?

awesome

MWAHAAHAHAH

for some reason i was under the impression that i started this thread. i even thought i said "heres what im taking so i can be a superman". i dreamed of being scott seward i guess???

anyway, do yall take your vitamins:
A. in the morning
B. in the evening
C. with a partic meal
D. spread throughout the day

i've always done A or D, but last night I took them right before I went to sleep and i feel fuckin amazing today. is this a good thing to do??

right now i take:

omega complex
b complex
c
lysine
biotin
beta carotene (5 days on, 2 off)
antioxidant multi

I take nothing. I probably should though. I feel like shit most of the time.

a simple b complex can do a lot for just basic low energy/lack of motivation ime

Yeah, that's what I've heard and something I always mean to look into but forget about. Maybe I will make a point not to forget this time.

men's multivitamin
b complex
zinc
d

I always take them first thing in the a.m. I'd be interested to hear more about night-vitamin experiences though.

Vitamins:

B-complex
Zinc
D
Cod liver oil

And usually I wash it down with Emergen-C-- which I hear might be bad? I should just eat an orange.

Weird shit:

Manuka honey (for GERD, works amazing)
Coconut oil and/or coconut manna throughout the day

B-complex always makes me irritable and gives me a tiny stomach ache, I've started chewing those little fuckers, swishing them around, just to ease the irritation.

If the B3 is in the form of nicotinic acid rather than nicotinamide, large doses will act a vasodilator causing the skin to flush and sometimes itch. Some people use this for "detoxification" (heh). Others do it for recreation.

The B2/riboflavin in the complex is a bright pigment that turns urine fluorescent yellow. I'm sure this can be used recreationally, too. You can judge whether you're getting sufficient B2 from your diet (even without supplementation) by observation.

And coconut oil is just a health store fad. It's a junk food with no micronutrients, is 91% saturated fat which seems to invite in endotoxins like lipopolysaccharides from the gut, with the consequent inflamatory effects on arterial endothelium, has been used for decades to induce atherosclerosis in animals, impairs human endothelial function, and is probably responsible for the 3-fold higher incidence of cardiovascular mortality in Singapore vs. Hong Kong

"i dreamed of being scott seward i guess???"

ha! i've had this nightmare before.

xp: lol. I went through a brief period of using niacin to induce the flush.

I recently added a calcium supplement and an iron supplement due to being anemic. I guess iron can decrease calcium absorption which is why I added calcium. Can't take them at the same time, either.

With breakfast I take
Plaque-off (seaweed)
Costco multivitamin w/iron
fish oil
aspirin
hyaluronic acid (for joints/skin)

Mr. Jaq adds
red yeast rice
some manly man saw palmetto thing

like fgti, we consume coconut oil/manna/milk throughout the day. If I eat some coconut manna right before bed, I am out like a light for the duration.

Current evidence suggests avoiding iron supplementation (except when prescribed, for anemic pregnant women for example). Iron's a prooxidant and the body can't regulate intake from heme (animal products) and some mineral salts in supplements - the body does seem to regulate intake from plant sources, so greens (as usual) are the best dietary source.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-iron-pills-good-for-you/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/iron-during-pregnancy/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/risk-associated-with-iron-supplements/

how delicious do y'all find yr respective supplements? i thought the calcium gummies would taste like chalk but they are quite yummy.

to answer roxy's Q, I take my vitamin supplements with breakfast, just because it is an easy time to do it. I take some extra vit C as I go to bed, bcz it seems better to take it in two doses, spread apart.

to answer philip's Q, the only supplement I taste is vit C, which I take as a powder mixed in water. some days it tastes shudderingly sharp and acidic to me. other times it tastes almost sweet.

My mom used to make me take C pills when I was a kid. They were always so sour.

a good way to read this thread is to do a search on "Sanpaku" and read whatever he says with care and attention.

this thread

ilx

sanpaku i may have missed it but what supplements and vitamins do you personally take and/or recommend, if any?

I'm ordering some black garlic from a place in Austin. Eating minced raw garlic has improved some stomach issues (more than probiotics even), supposedly black garlic has all the benefits with none of the stink.

I take my vitamins/etc. on a "when I remember" schedule. It's a good thing I don't need regular medication, I'd be fucked.

See my first response in the thread (B12-I'm vegan, D-it's winter, algal DHA:just to be safe). In general, so little is known about nutrition, and so many potentially beneficial components have no associated deficiency disease, that it just makes sense to eat diverse veggies, fruits, nuts and selected fungi. No day goes by without a cruciferous vegetable, onion/garlic, a handful of nuts, and a handful of berries, though.

Last tip before I'm off for the evening - Goji berries are truly impressive nutritionally, and can be bought cheaper than raisins. Go to the oriental market and look for lycium berries. Same product, minus $20/lb marketing.

goji berries are pretty yum!

Sanpaku, these were prescribed by my doctor. I might not even be able to absorb them, so we're testing it.

I think I was just qualifying my discomfort with the usual recommendation of a multivitamin a day (or fortified foods) "just to be safe". There are issues with folic acid and iron, and no doubt with some other components of generally regarded as safe multivitamins, that I think the general public should be more aware of, rather than just going with Centrum or One-A-Day on trust.

Obv if you've got a diagnosed disorder and are under medical supervision, its a wholly different matter.

Sanpaku you got me shook abt my coconut oil habits but this isn't over

I am not buying the coconut oil statement, I love that shit. Bring it on.

the 91% saturated fat thing is definitely true.

Besides that. Yep. I do realize that.

I think the NYT did a fair assessment of the coconut oil fad. There's no strong evidence of any health promoting effects, but its probably not that bad in moderation (meaning very occasional cooking use, not daily supplementation), and makes for flaky vegan pastries.

Ie, if its a choice between Crisco and coconut, use the coconut.

I put together a 1.6 hr thematically organized YouTube playlist of Dr. Greger's videos on supplements.

I would have his children.

^damn. amazing^

i realized that i felt amazing and energetic this morning, and subsequently i realized that i took my vitamins in the evening again. this is a thing. i suspect its related mostly to the B complex

i watched all those 'tubes, thx sanpaku. good stuff

i think i have some kind of deficiency, the symptoms of which especially manifest in the morning, and that this evening vitamin regimen is helping to battle that. i always feel weird and depressed in the morning, even after getting plenty of sleep, exercise, etc. its not a tiredness, per se, its like mini-depression, if that makes sense? its a deep lack of motivation that is not there when i take my vitamins the night before

I tried your nighttime dosing regimen for a few days and I woke up in the morning feeling like they had been just sitting dissolving in my stomach the whole night.

haha what does that feel like??

A little woozy in the head. Stomach verging on a touch of reflux, maybe. Mild symptoms, but I definitely didn't feel as ready to go out and conquer shit as I had hoped.

did you take em with water and something with a lil fat? /obv

Water, yes. Fat, probably not.

Many moons ago, I used to take a multi high in vitamin C pill that (unsurprisingly, given its ascorbic acid) would upset my stomach. Just like acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin) on an empty stomach.

Recently I've had to throw out the remainder of my algal EPA/DPA - I stored them at room temp, and in retrospect, its not terribly surprising they oxidized into something that produced fish-oil hiccups. If you do EPA/DHA from algal, krill oil, or fish oil supplements, do remember to refrigerate.

Vitamin D absorption is higher when taken with meals. It seems reasonable to take all supplements then, as although you'll lose some to binding with fiber, fat soluble nutrients will absorb much more readily ( this is also true wrt the phytonutrients in salads) and there's a much lower likelihood of either stomach ache or burping up rancid algal/krill/fish oil if you forgot to refrigerate.

i take an omega complex that includes fish, flax, and borage - it wasnt refrigerated at the store i bought it from, should i refrigerate it tho? does oxidation reduce efficacy in this instance?

Refrigeration just slows chemical reactions down (include those in bacteria/mold).

One rough rule-of-thumb is that every increase of 10°C doubles reaction rates. Highly polyunsaturated fats (like flax, walnut or fish oil) are fairly reactive, and will oxidize once oxygen is present. Its plausible that oil or oil capsules bottled in dark-glass under nitrogen, and preferably with some antioxidants (alpha-tocopherol/vitamin E is a common oil preservative, and native to most seed oils) could keep very well for months on the store shelf. Once opened, in sealed containers at refrigerator temperatures & darkness, any oxidative reactions will progress much more slowly (1/4 to 1/8 their room temperature rate if the aforementioned rule of thumb holds). As I've been debating PUFA oxidation elsewhere lately, I can say its pretty unlikely this will create meaningfully harmful substances, but the oxidation will reduce the active ω−3 fatty acids most take supplement oils for "somewhat", and more importantly, create unpleasant rancid tastes.

Whole flax seeds and walnuts have a lot of antioxidant compounds, so hence store better than flax-meal or expeller oils, upwards of a year at room temperature.

Lest I omit, you could freeze any dietary oil with no adverse impact. This might make sense if you only use your flax, hemp, chia, walnut or evening primrose oil very occasionally.

i see. no bad tastes yet. thanks for all that info, dude

I mostly err on the side of less supplementation.

Def need some kind of extra omega 3s though, especially since I eat a butt-ton of avocado. I love little oily fish, but I don't know where to find them not packaged in tons of salt. (My blood pressure is tending toward high, which pisses me off--I'm not even 30 yet!)

I can say anecdotally that probiotics really helped my post-clindamycin IBS.

Evidence points to GABA (a neurotransmitter) NOT actually crossing the blood-brain barrier, and even if it does, it might be dangerous for someone with depressive tendencies to take, since GABA is a CNS depressant. I got some kind of GABA/thianine/holy basil/magnesium supplement for my panic disorder before I decided to break down and take real medication, but decided it was probably crap and never took it.

Kava kava does, in fact, work fairly well for anxiety, but it's got nothing on sweet, sweet xanax.

So for me it's just an occasional D supplement, sometimes B-complex (it makes me kind of unpleasantly hyper, though, and I don't enjoy the niacin flush), and hopefully some kind of omega 3 thing soon.

All this talk of oils is disheartening. I thought I was doing pretty okay with olive oil, safflower oil & sparingly-applied real butter.

Been taking 5 http the last couple of nights,just based on the recommendations in this thread. Didn't notice anyting different, but yesterday I ate one mid-morning, accidentally scarfing it down with the other vitamins. I was at home due to the non-snowstorm and out of my regular routine. Around two I was completely overcome by the need to take a.nap. When my wife woke me two hours later, I apparently replied with "what the fuck? Am I tripping? Am I tripping?" I did not actually feel like I was tripping on acid or anything like that, it I did have some sort of trouble processing the transition from sleep to wakefulness.

Took a second 5htp at bedtime and had two vivid dreams, one harmless, the other a test-anxiety dream.Had to booths snooze alarm once, but woke up feeling great, so far.

Webmd indicates 5htp maybe linked to some horrible muscle disorder, but I haven't looked into it too deeply yet.

Had to hit the snooze alarm. Sorry.

5 htp can give you crazy-ass dreams

In the benign one, I wrote this song about how there was a lion made out of lights in the hills about Penn State, and every night the President of Penn State would flick on the lights to look at them from his mansion, but Bill from the tv show King of the Hill lived in a little shack right by the lion's nose and it would keep him awake all night.

In the second dream, I didn't study for the final exam in my black history course "because they teach you all that in high school anyway". The test it was way more complicated than I thought and I didn't know any of the answers and had to turn in a blank exam. Walking away, I overheard a controversy on the radio that Condoleeza Rice had named her newborn baby something that translated as "the king and ruler of the Arab world."

So that was weird, but I've been feeling great all morning.

I have added d-chiro-inositol to my regime for my PCOS

i love hearing about dreams.

I've reorganized and significantly enlarged a collection of research (presently ~1900 papers, many referenced by Dr. Greger, many originally behind paywalls) on diet and disease, and thought I'd share. It covers a few supplements, but the main focus is food and chronic disease.

One result of all the abstract reading (digesting it all will take some time) is that I'm probably going to amend my B12, D & DHA regimen mentioned above. Vegans have lower taurine than omnivores, and taurine functions as an inhibitor of the endogenous glycation reactions (slow motion versions of the Maillard reactions in the browning of meat or toast) which cause much aging related decline, like loss of skin elasticity and cataracts. Plus, its relatively cheap ($22/yr at vitacost).

plus it's in delicious Red Bull

Yes, I try to only take the absolute necessary supplements, and nothing more.

So, I just take two multivitamin gummies a day. I use this brand: http://www.nnpvitamins.com/vitafusion/multivites.php

I always have them in the morning with breakfast.

just a multivitamin, but for a long time a CVS orange-flavored chewable tablet. But the last time I went to buy them I saw these gumball-shaped adult chewable vitamins that looked more fun and are yummy. It's nice to take once after some bitter pills each day.
http://www.centrum.com/sites/default/files/public/products/main/product-description-flavor_burst_fruit_1.png

I've not looked into it, but a couple of people who've studied nursing and are keen on all-things medicine tell me the gummie form is good if you are prone to developing kidney stones, gallstones, etc. My apologies if this is incorrect, I don't mean to spread misinformation. But if you're in this situation, you may want to look into it.

Multivitamin/multimineral supplements have used in dozens of studies, and the conclusion is they give you more expensive pee.

Multivitamin-multimineral supplementation and mortality: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials
Antioxidant vitamins and mineral supplementation, life span expansion and cancer incidence: a critical commentary
Multivitamin/mineral supplements and prevention of chronic disease
Clinical trials and observational studies to assess the chronic disease benefits and risks of multivitamin-multimineral supplements
A systematic review of multivitamin and multimineral supplementation for infection

As far as reducing kidney/gall stone risk with gummy vitamins go, there's nothing in the literature. Comparing the "inactive"/filler ingredients between Centrum Tablets and Centrum Flavor Burst reveals these differences:

Centrum tablets: Calcium Carbonate, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Pregelatinized Corn Starch
Centrum gummy: Sucrose, Corn Syrup, Hydrogenated Coconut Oil, Maltodextrin, Acacia

So, most of the tablet is a chalk based calcium supplement, which could conceivably increase kidney stone risk. There are plenty of multivitamin capsules that also don't include chalk fillers/binders.

sanpaku, are there reputable brands of vitamins/supplements, or are they more or less the same quality?

When I worked the supplement counter at a competitor of Whole Foods (Sun Harvest, also from Austin) 20 years ago) I thought pretty highly of Twin Labs - they had well thought out formulas and packaging.

Thing is, none of the vitamin purveyors have complete control over their supply chains, most source a good deal of their ingredients from Chinese and Indian manufacturers, so episodes like the tryptophan contamination of 1989 or the 2007 melamine contamination could happen to any of the brands.

Presently I get what few supplements I use from Vitacost, which has an no-nonsense in-house brand (used to be called Nutraceutical Sciences Institute). Prices are well below what I see at Whole Foods, but its pretty much the same original sources. The case of algal DHA is probably typical. There are precisely 2 manufacturers worldwide, most goes into infant formula, and its repackaged sold under at least 10 different brand names I've seen.

Been drinking kava tea sometimes. May be mellowing. Also bout kava drops. Same effect, bigger dose, though maybe the grain alcohol is the drops causes the mellowness.

bout/bought

I've seen and participated in a kava ceremony on vacation in Fiji. Its a local anesthetic (my mouth went numb) and herbal valium. Probably also a hepatotoxin, given all the cases of liver damage/failure with kava use.

Yeah, I'm hoping low dosage and occasional use will keep me safe (and mellow).

Dunno if kava teas/extracts are well labeled, but try to make sure the product only uses the roots. The hepatoxic culprit may be from the aerial portion of the kava plant.

What is the verdict on pure ginseng root?

The pros: possibly reduces blood glucose levels, may help in weight loss. Unknown mechanism, but the steroidal saponins are possible active agents. Side effects include insomnia, diarrhea, and hyperactivity. Cautionary articles include this one where stress hormones rose and testosterone fell and this one where American ginseng increased oxidative stress.

Then again, the usual rule in herbals probably applies: if it doesn't have side-effects, it probably also doesn't have medicinal ones. My read is that its one of the most oversold herbals out there.

Note also, there are some wildly different results from Panax ginseng (Chinese ginseng), Panax quinquefolius (American ginseng), and Eleutherococcus senticosus (Siberian ginseng), as well as weird threshold effects, which lead me to believe it may act mainly through hormesis (great word, which I just learned this week, and a pretty active field of late).

OK I take nothing. I think it's time I start.

I am a lacto-ovo veg who occasionally (like once a month or less) eats fish. I am tired all the time.

Where should I start?

coffee

amphetamines

According to WebMD, the only supplement with good evidence WRT fatigue is magnesium. Here's a Google scholar search for the studies on magnesium and fatigue. Note that most of the studies used IV injections.

The list of foods highest in magnesium is topped by seeds (pumpkin, sesame, sunflower), and nuts (cashews, almonds). There's evidence that the magnesium content of nuts may be responsible for their cardiac and longevity benefits. NutritionFacts had a few videos on this: How Do Nuts Prevent Sudden Cardiac Death? and Mineral of the Year—Magnesium.

Scanning my files (this is the new correct link), there are isolated studies showing benefits from garlic, creatine (fish), l-ornithine (mushrooms), and l-carnitine (duh, look at the name). This article includes recent reviews for creatine & carnitine.

The body can theoretically produce all the "carninutrient" modified amino acids (carnitine, carnosine, creatine, taurine) from vegetable protein, and I'm presently digesting which ones might be worth adding back into a low-fat vegan diet. So far only taurine seems to make the grade for me (mostly for its role preventing the endogenous glycation in so many aging processes), but mind, I've been vegan (+ B-12 & D) for 3 years with no fatigue issues.

x-post Thanking u 4 the sage advice.

Go get your thyroid checked, too, E.

You posted on the severe anxiety thread earlier. It is possible that your fatigue is coming from the adrenaline dumps. Panic attacks are exhausting! Try seeking different treatment for those & the fatigue may lift. Magnesium is supposed to be good for anxiety, too.

Thank you, E.

XXP Eazy: I have it on good authority that the kava sold by Gaia Herbs has pretty stringent quality control, and is sourced only from the roots.

Herbal Supplements Are Often Not What They Seem

Just want to point out a couple excellent free resources I've come across:

Examine.com has some in-depth reviews of medical research and grading of hundreds of supplements. It's a good first stop for info.

Mark McCarty's Medline syntheses are a bit more speculative, but do a remarkable job of summarizing 30 years of delving into the literature on diet/lifestyle and supplementation. I especially recommend these: Low-Fat, Low-Salt, Whole-Food Vegan, Full-Spectrum Antioxidant Therapy,Practical Strategies for Preserving Good Cognitive Function into Old Age

Anyway, PipingRock had a sale, so I'm doing a n=1 experiment with α-lipoic acid (↑ ­­Nrf2), Andrographis (↑ Nrf2), aspirin(↓ CVD, ↓ cancer), B12 (vegan support), benfotiamine (↓ glycation), berberine (pluripotent: ↓ glucose, ↓ cholesterol, ↓ obesity, ↓ inflammation, ↓ cancer), Co-Q10 (↓ CVD), D (↑ bones, ↓ CVD, ↓ cancer, ↓ MS), DHA (↓ CVD, ↓ cancer, ↓ inflammation), niacin (↓ cholesterol), n-acetylcysteine (↑ glutathione) and taurine (↓ glycation, ↓ CVD) at the moment. I'll try to let you know if my liver implodes, but a month in I'm feeling fine and lost another 10 lbs.

Only the aspirin, B12, D, fish-oil and niacin have the highest level of epidemiological support (multiple large randomized controlled trials), the others are more speculative. Most of these are cheap, but I'll drop a few (ALA & Co-Q10) when the bottles run out, and might add others from that 2nd McCarty monograph.

Thanks for the McCarty, some great reading in there. Funny he suggests the fasted cardio, I just got into that

So shouldn't the headline be 'why megadoses of C and E don't belong in your workout'? Seems overly broad. Something I'm missing?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/why-antioxidants-dont-belong-in-your-workout/

Vitamins C, E, and (for-UV generated singlet oxygen) the carotenoids are the only dietary antioxidants that are well-absorbed and constitute meaningful amounts of antioxidant capacity in the body. However, even they are relatively minor contributors compared to endogenous antioxidants like urate (in plasma) or glutathione (in cells) or antioxidant enzymes (superoxide dismutase and numerous others). The vast majority of so called "antioxidants" measured in foods don't appear to be either absorbed well, or function primarily as antioxidants in vivo. Indeed some (like flavonoids and other phenols) appear to stimulate endogenous antioxidant responses via prooxidant reactions.

The emerging consensus is that some reactive oxygen and nitrogen species (esp. superoxide and nitric oxide) have important signalling roles, and large doses of exogenous well-absorbed antioxidants like vitamin C & E interfere with this signalling. The advantage of most food "antioxidants" is that they're not anti-oxidants at all: in the limited amounts they're absorbed in they're actually stimulating endogenous antioxidant responses by through sulfhydryl reactivity, but the non-absorbed fraction of phenols may be more important via modulating gut microbiota and intestinal permeability to endotoxins and the like.

For the curious, more on RNOS in normal signalling, antioxidants (including their pro-oxidant and adverse effects), some issues with vitamin C and vitamin E, and several real mechanisms underlying phenolic "antioxidants" in Nrf2 activation and reducing metabolic endotoxemia.

Sanpaku, here is a question for you.

If someone is sensitive to (cooked or raw) ginger (not allergic) and takes something like this: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-womens-once-daily-multi-vitamin-with-cultured-nutrients-organic-herbs

Would something like that, which includes a ginger extract (if I'm reading it properly), have the same (negative) effects?

Just curious what your thoughts on that are

Supplement extracts typically attempt to just grab the bioactive compounds (for ginger, this might include zingiberine, AR-curcumene, alpha-bergamotene, gingerol, zingerone, etc) using some solvent extraction, leaving the water, fiber, carbs, and most proteins behind. Ginger extracts exist, and if you're sensitive to ginger, it might be to a ginger protein which will be lower (one hopes) in the extract, or it might be to one of the bioactive polyphenols, which will be higher.

As far as I can tell, the multivitamin you're looking at doesn't use ginger extract, just a miniscule and largely pointless amount of cheap powdered ginger as filler/label padding. If you can handle a pinch of ginger powder (20 mg is roughly 1/100th of a tsp), this likely won't be an issue. I view all the 15-40 mg portion herbal additions as label padding, as there really aren't any herbs that make a difference at those doses.

On the whole, I've a fairly positive view on ginger for those who aren't sensive, 2800 mg/d dried ginger had one of the most positive effects in [this study](http://www.mccormickscienceinstitute.com/Report-Landing/~/media/Mccormick%20Science%20Institute/Reports/Percival_JACN_312882012.ashx) which looked at inflammatory cytokine and DNA strand breaks in ex vivo blood samples.

ya, it's for my girlfriend. she moved to north america and is just finding that she is very sensitive to many fresh/raw produce (some fruits and veggies), whilst back home, she had no trouble consuming them raw or steamed.

cheers for that. i bought her this one as well in case those vitamins give her bad symptoms: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-synergy-r-womens-twice-daily-multi-vitamin

My caveat on the high dose B-complex supplements like that latter product is riboflavin [is a photosensitizer](https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-2XWDkPfB2OWlhIRS1MaE5GMWM&usp=sharing). Take at bedtime, and try to pee off the excess before entering sunlight.

i'll have a read later. that first file/article? isn't showing up, though

Should be fixed. The key review is this one. I'm not a fan of high-dose multivitamin, or still worse, multi-mineral, supplements.

well, that scared the shit out of me. i guess i'm cancelling the women's twice daily multivitamin

thanks

i don't understand the point of the high dose vitamins - i can't remember what the dosage is on the one i'm taking now, but the last one was a gel cap of complex b vitamins and it was something like 1000% of your RDI.

mine has 1.7 mg ribo, I think i'm ok with that

magnesium oxide, super b complex, d3. murphy who

whats the deal w/ isotonix? just like powdered multivitamins w/ extra marketing? I cant even tell