Food Industry Wanker Words

I JUST WANT A FUCKING SANDWICH OKAY?

1. Artisan

2. Barista

3. Homemade

4. Deli

5. Energising

6. Rustic

7. Traceable

8. Gastro

9. Basket

10. Daily

11. Quotidian

12. Honest

13. Good

14. Creative

15. Organic

16. Local

17. Fairtrade

(note I'm not against these things as things just when they're used to justify the price of an £8 baguette with a bit of salad and cheese in it.)

18. Premium

19. Kitchen

how is "deli" a wanker word?

arguably the only reason wanker words are needed is because "just a sandwich" most likely means it's full of total shit and made in the worst way possible.

not that something like "artisan" isn't a worthy target. but food clichés would be a better way of describing it.

how is "deli" a wanker word?

It's not a wanker word in America but it is here because it's trying to sound American.

the word deli has been used for as long as i can remember, and i grew up in ireland.

arguably the only reason wanker words are needed is because "just a sandwich" most likely means it's full of total shit and made in the worst way possible.

There are still shops where you can go in, order a sandwich made with combinations of fresh, plain ingredients, and it is not "full of total shit" but neither is there any fuss made in marketing.

how is "deli" a wanker word?

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 09:32 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh come on!

the word deli has been used for as long as i can remember, and i grew up in ireland.

It's an attempt to sound American. I'm not sure when it started to get used in the UK (probably the 1970s or 1980s) but it seems to have really taken off more recently.

Had a rant about 'artisanal' on twitter the other day and, I think it was Marcello, pointed out quite rightly that it breaks into 'art is anal' which is lol but I dunno why.

If no one actually sleeps in the sandwich shop or pub kitchen, then it's NOT homemade.

just because the likes of pret use people's growing interest in eating food that's well-sourced as a way to make their offerings seem better, doesn't mean that that interest is misguided. we shouldn't allow that to erode the truth.

deli was used in the local corner shop where i grew up, for the last 20 years or so. like about as old school a deli as you could imagine.

I'm not sure when it started to get used in the UK (probably the 1970s or 1980s) but it seems to have really taken off more recently.

in the sense of there being more delis now (presumably true) or in the sense of it getting used for establishments that would once have been called something else (maybe true but can't think of any irl examples)?

There are still shops where you can go in, order a sandwich made with combinations of fresh, plain ingredients, and it is not "full of total shit" but neither is there any fuss made in marketing.

OTM. I'm not not going to buy my food from somewhere because they didn't prefix every item on their menu with "wholesome" or "artisan", Jesus. "Try our Delicious Organic Fairy-Powered Rustic Flowerleaf Tea with fucking Fairy Dust Sprinkled on top of it by our Barista for just £2.99" - it's as manipulative as fast food marketing IMO.

deli was used in the local corner shop where i grew up, for the last 20 years or so. like about as old school a deli as you could imagine.

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 09:53 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A boy could kick a ball...

Barista literally just means 'bar man' etymologically, doesn't it?

for the last 20 years or so

So you agree with me, then?

"homemade" is the one here that really grinds my gears on the reg

Deli is fair play as a truncation of delicatessen. One of my favourite, most-visited shops is a deli.

If it is a delicatessen, fair enough. If it's a cafe or sandwich shop GTFO.

'Slow-roasted' gets me. Say SLOWLY, for fuck's sake. It sounds nicer. Likewise 'pan-fried'. 'Over-roasted'. Those stupid fucking tautological portmanteaus piss me off.

oven not over, but y''know.

Salad bars in work canteens get called "delis".

you guys really need to distinguish between irritating marketing, and people describing the provenance of something which actually is important and factual, and only perceived as snobby because of how poor the standards have become, fuck a horse in that grinder, it's grand lads.

Deli is fair play as a truncation of delicatessen

Yes, and that's how it is in America, but in my opinion it's been appropriated here at least partly BECAUSE it's American.

not because it's a fairly useful word to describe what a deli is.

FOOD SELLER or you are a pretentious wanker

There was a delicatessen in our town where I grew up too, but it was a shop that sold specialist meats and cheeses and things in jars. It didn't sell pre-prepared sandwiches with sesame seeds sprinkled into the bread.

not because it's a fairly useful word to describe what a deli is.

Why not call it a delicatessen?

the deli near me was in a londis.

xpost i am pretty sure delicatessan was used on signs and stuff, maybe deli is just a more colloquial term.

why does any long word get shortened?

otm

"Deli" is not a useful word. It means nothing. It makes no difference to the food other than giving the establishment you bought it from an inflated sense of prestige which allows them to add an extra quid to the asking price.

yes, shops and the products within them should be judged by their respective quality, not the name above the door, positively or negatively.

why does any long word get shortened?

I accept that words get shortened, and so 'delicatessen' got routinely shortened to 'deli' in New York or wherever, but it seems to me that people here liked the sound of the contraction because it suggested America. That's what I don't like, although it's not like it matters a great deal to me.

xpost to doglatin, what do you think a "deli" should be called? should a shop never be called a deli? if not what should delis change their name to? what are names for a shop that "mean something" in your mind? what are valid reasons for somewhere to charge more than somewhere else for their food?

why are britishers so terrified of americanisms

thread would have been better if it had just stopped after "artisan"

the clichés are what annoy me, like artisan obviously. also lately caramel is always, ALWAYS, "salted caramel". i swear there'll be a salted caramel twix bar by the end of the year.

things like slow-roasted or pan-fried are pretty annoying too. i guess it's telling you something, but not a lot.

20. Bespoke

xpost to doglatin, what do you think a "deli" should be called? should a shop never be called a deli? if not what should delis change their name to? what are names for a shop that "mean something" in your mind? what are valid reasons for somewhere to charge more than somewhere else for their food?

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 10:08 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have no problem with actual delicatessens calling themselves "delis" if it's easier to write down, fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of these words, and food standards are good in themselves.
My beef is when they're misappropriated to the point where they mean nothing - just colourful buzzwords that get thrown around supermarkets, food vans and stalls, roadside cafes, sandwich shops, work canteens. Every item on a menu has to be preceded by this bullshit term to justify the fact it's being sold at inflated prices to people with more money than sense. This is escalating to ridiculous heights in Kings X where I work: "Thirsty? Try our Fairtrade Superberry Detox Nectar served with a Good Healthy Rustic Basket of Artisan Boulot" etc...
Assuming that unless a product is waving its arms around going "coo-ee I'm rustic and traceable" must make it disgusting mass-produced shit is a hell of a way to go.

My beef is when they're misappropriated to the point where they mean nothing - just colourful buzzwords that get thrown around supermarkets, food vans and stalls, roadside cafes, sandwich shops, work canteens. Every item on a menu has to be preceded by this bullshit term to justify the fact it's being sold at inflated prices to people with more money than sense.

how do you know when something is an inflated price and that those buying it are stupider than you?

I like salted caramel and I'm glad everyone is salting their caramel and sometimes their chocolate xp

I don't mind when people use some descriptors to tempt you, tbh I find that thing where they're like "carrots, $8" is kind of more infuriating

Agreed on both really.

how do you know when something is an inflated price and that those buying it are stupider than you?

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 10:29 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It simply boils down to a total desensitisation and lack of meaning in these words. This massive song-and-dance charade made out of the fact the milk didn't come from a cyborg cow with asbestos udders. Woo-fuckin-hoo, your vegetables weren't grown in Sellafield and don't bite back, give yourselves a medal.

why are britishers so terrified of americanisms

Fair point. I just wish they would come up with their own ideas but it seems it's not possible.

It simply boils down to a total desensitisation and lack of meaning in these words. This massive song-and-dance charade made out of the fact the milk didn't come from a cyborg cow with asbestos udders. Woo-fuckin-hoo, your vegetables weren't grown in Sellafield and don't bite back, give yourselves a medal.

just listen to yourself.

Ha I just went to the St. John website to see if there was hard evidence of "carrots, 8" and there was not, though there was "toast and honey, 2.60" and also "we can arrange a bespoke breakfast for you" FUCK

st john can get away with that kind of thing.

Unless you are cutting my french toast according to my specific measurements I am not buying it

just listen to yourself.

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 10:37 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Drat! Thwarted by LG's rhetoric once again.

the food at st john is amazing but i would not order the toast and honey

thread would have been better if it had just stopped after "artisan"

― lex pretend, Friday, 1 March 2013 10:23 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ otm

things like slow roasted are fine! some things you roast for a long time, some things you dont, this description tells me something

I actually love the simple St. John's stuff, the Welsh rarebit especially is like "the best lunch near Barbican" afaic.

if i was at st john now it'd be bacon sandwich all the way. it's fucking amazing.

Where is Sex Industry Wanker Words parody thread?

thread industry wanker posts

cottage industry weaker thoughts

Wanker industry um....

1. Caregiver

things like slow roasted are fine! some things you roast for a long time, some things you dont, this description tells me something

with meat it's a bit useless, as it's generally slowly roasted and the amount of time could be a fairly wide range. i guess this is why you get 12-hour or 8-hour or 24-hour appended too, which is probably more specific. i mean, you can't have quick-roasted can you?

yeah i guess i'm thinking like slow roasted lamb is goign to be falling apart, normal roasted woudl still be pink in the middle?

things like slow roasted are fine! some things you roast for a long time, some things you dont, this description tells me something

Not quite my point; why the fuck use the (vaguely pretentious) 'slow roasted' and not the more pleasant, more grammatically-correct 'slowly roasted'?

But yeah, you can quickly roast stuff.

that's an interesting question, i don't think it's pretentious though.

"panly fried"

xp yeah that seems like a different issue

Yeah, I should have made more of a split between just weird grammar adjectives and stupid tautological ones.

Former = 'slow roasted' instead of 'slowly roasted'.

Latter = 'pan-fried', 'oven-roasted', etc, where you can't really fry EXCEPT in a pan, so it's totally unnecessary.

deep fried surely isn't in a pan?

i guess pan fried is used as it doesn't sound as unhealthy as just "fried"

Not quite my point; why the fuck use the (vaguely pretentious) 'slow roasted' and not the more pleasant, more grammatically-correct 'slowly roasted'?

Quite right. Also, there is no need to state whether it is slowly or quickly roasted. The techniques are different but they are a matter for the person cooking the food. The consumer just needs to know that it was roasted, not the speed at which the process was carried out. The implication is that "slow roasting" is somehow more carefully and lovingly done.

Deep fried is in a chip pan. It's still a pan. There's no frying-pan-fried distinction over deep-pan-fried.

Maybe it comes from "slow-cooker", "slow-cooked" ? I dunno, the grammar behind "slow-roasted" never really bothered me too much, but the idea that it's been cooked properly as a selling point is more irritating. As you say, you can roast things quickly but they won't necessarily taste as nice.

or what dubmill said. fuck the speed.

The techniques are different but they are a matter for the person cooking the food. The consumer just needs to know that it was roasted, not the speed at which the process was carried out. The implication is that "slow roasting" is somehow more carefully and lovingly done.

See, I think, as mentioned above, that this is important - you'd slowly roast a lesser cut of meat in order to make it very very tender; whereas a joint of fillet beef you'd want still pink in the middle. The techniques might be 'the same' but the timing makes a massive difference to end product. It's really just the weird, jarring use of 'slow' rather than 'slowly' that bugs me.

I can only assume that people saying 'fuck the speed' re; roasting don't actually cook much.

'pan fried' obviously means 'not deep fried'.

I'm not saying that roasting something slowly mightn't be better. If it is, do it, but don't tell me that you've done it because I don't want to know.

Cooked by a flute-playing goat-man

I'm not saying that roasting something slowly mightn't be better. If it is, do it, but don't tell me that you've done it because I don't want to know.

cool man, rock and roll.

the idea that it's been cooked properly as a selling point is more irritating

The idea that something's been cooked properly is a BIG selling point.

xpost: I'm not sure it does to me, ledge. It just feels weird.

I'm not saying that roasting something slowly mightn't be better. If it is, do it, but don't tell me that you've done it because I don't want to know.

But it intrinsically affects the outcome! It makes it a different experience! It's quite important!

xpost: I'm not sure it does to me, ledge. It just feels weird.

so "fried chicken breast" or "fried fish" wouldn't suggest deep fried?

pan means frying pan, generally, that's why you have pancakes etc, chip pan is just a part of a deep fat fryer.

One of the best sandwich shops where I live has a small sign informing the customer that it is family run and that they use fresh, locally sourced ingredients. That's all it needs to make it exceedingly popular because the sandwiches taste great, are reasonably priced and don't come pre-loaded with benign food-terms in their descriptions.

so "fried chicken breast" or "fried fish" wouldn't suggest deep fried?

Not, not intrinsically. I think I'd always think of shallow-frying first.

Fair point. I just wish they would come up with their own ideas but it seems it's not possible.

― dubmill, Friday, March 1, 2013 10:34 AM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jesus you sound like my dad

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mind-your-language/2012/oct/19/mind-your-language-adverbs

why don't you provide a real example of these "pre-loaded with benign food terms" items rather than the few awful attempts at humour given upthread?

xpost

"Fried calamari" is always deep fried

That's all it needs to make it exceedingly popular

ffs, use a real bloody word like "very".

xpost "fried chicken"

slow roasted is no less gramatically correct than slowly roasted. http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2012/10/grammar-0.

why don't you provide a real example of these "pre-loaded with benign food terms" items rather than the few awful attempts at humour given upthread?

xpost

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 11:11 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I provided you with 19 of them at the start of this thread. Most of them were taken from the same pamphlet I was handed for something called the "Deli Kitchen" which is a glorified sandwich shop.

citation supplied

12. Honest

― lo! dating (dog latin), Friday, March 1, 2013 9:17 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is the only item on yr (absurd, reactionary) list i agree with

those are isolated words, not specific examples, xpost.

Author of that post is deliberately mis-interpretaing, I'd say, caek:

If EDF comes along and delivers even better electricity service, then it would make sense to describe a London shining brighter. London shining brightly isn't wrong, but it means something subtly different.

Maddie York suggests it should be 'shines more brightly' which is also subtly different from 'shines brightly', and he ignores that. But yeah, 'slow roasted' might be technically OK, but it feels wanky.

none of your list is as bad as the innocent smoothies vocabulary

xposts.

traceable

how fucking dare they

But yeah, 'slow roasted' might be technically OK

yes, it is. that's my point.

and if someone want to have a pop at an article on the guardian website that trolls for comments by saying something about grammar with little enough knowledge to be dangerous, then that's fine by me.

lol that sentence i just wrote is borderline illiterate, sorry

"Fried calamari" is always deep fried

― plotzin (flamboyant goon tie included)

No it isn't, I've had plenty of shallow-pan sauteed/stir fried style calamari before!

FOr me the annoying buzzwords are things like "house made" (whats that even mean!?). I also hate the word "jus" when its just a pub steak with a bit of pan leavings and red wine on.

Hell, I *made* shallow-fried calamari with fennel the other day, it was (tr)ace(able)

and creative

I'm more cranky at food critics wordings. If I have to read a certain local food writer say "jumble", "tumble", "softly" or "pillowy" one more time I thnk I'll kill someone.

stir fried? what redundant verbiage! of course it's stirred, you don't want it burned on one side and raw on the other!

"cooked to perfection" bugs the shit out of me. Given the alternative is 'not cooked properly' I'd expect it to be a given.

I get entirely what dl means with the use of 'deli' in terms of sandwiches, it's supposed to imply the ingredients being higher quality or be shorthand for 'American'. I've seen 'cold cuts' used recently instead of cold meat, which is from the same shorthand book.

not sure we really need any descriptors other than 'hot' and 'cold'.

traceable

how fucking dare they

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 11:20 (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The point, LG, is that food SHOULD BE TRACEABLE without that fact having to be plastered across the product description like a badge of honour.

"Yes please, I'll have the traceable salmon with the organic carrots and free-range boiled egg" - it's no different from the empty language seen on the music industry wanker words thread.

Don't know if you've noticed, DL, but lately a lot of people have been pretty miffed at being given horse instead of cow.

jus is in english dictionaries and on wikipedia. it's also shorter than "a bit of pan leavings and red wine on", which is apparently a virtue according to the lol i-speak-one-language grammar/usage police, so there's that.

god this thread is like the conversations i have with my dad at christmas. my dad loves those articles based on campaign for plain english press releases.

Kind of sad at lack of Lex in this thread. Would have made my Friday.

Can I have my rant about the difference between sat and sitting in this thread?

'gourmet' applied to everything that's not even close to gourmet, e.g. fucking sausages

I love sausages.

jus is in english dictionaries and on wikipedia. it's also shorter than "a bit of pan leavings and red wine on", which is apparently a virtue according to the lol i-speak-one-language grammar/usage police, so there's that.

Hah yeah I'm well aware, I just think "call it what it is - juice or gravy" but I really dont want to be an old fart about it, I love my food.

The point, LG, is that food SHOULD BE TRACEABLE without that fact having to be plastered across the product description like a badge of honour

The point actually, is that this is far from the case, and that smalltime attempts at being smart which denigrate words like "traceable" play into the hands of the vast majority of retailers who want to keep it that way.

By calling something elitist you ensure it remains so.

Gourmet is derived from the French for 'manservant' isn't it?

gravy is not the same thing, so that wouldn't be calling a spade a spade

xxp BOOM. OTM.

sausages are great, the problem is having the word 'gourmet' whacked between the words 'dagwood' and 'sausage'

Sure you can fry a squid in a pan, but unless you're on the Mediterranean, fried calamari means deep-fried. I cannot think of any restaurant that would say "fried calamari" when they mean they're not going to ubiquitously slice it thinly and bread it and deep fry it; this is in defense of "pan-fried" as being a necessary distinction

Wrt coffee people have used fair trade and shade grown and so forth with such zeal that I instinctively and unfairly anticipate dirty water coffee when none of those adjectives are applied

HEY GUYS I PUT SALT ON EVERYTHING AND I DONT TIP

god this thread is like the conversations i have with my dad at christmas. my dad loves those articles based on campaign for plain english press releases.

otm. it's like people just attacking the nuance which a more complex world with more choices and experience demands.

I've got macaroni cheese leftovers for lunch.

0w3n - not in Aus it isnt! We hav a lot of panfried italian/greek style calamari here. But we have a lot of said people here so that may make it more likely I guess.

Crumbed fried calamari is ubiquitous of course but fresh uncoated rings in chilli and herbs fried in oil on salad, also so.

I think it's fair that there's some shit-talk no-meaning marketing bullshit at play in some of these, and that deserves to be called out and criticised, but yeah, much of this is just people caring about food, which is a good thing.

I didn't think of calamari in crumbs and deep-fried. I thought of them as described by Trayce.

to me calamari means deep fried squid, on any menu. if not deep fried then it's just squid.

otm. it's like people just attacking the nuance which a more complex world with more choices and experience demands.

― Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 1 March 2013 11:33 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No it's attacking a bullshit.

"a bullshit"?

there's your epitaph sorted

:D

this is more critic speak than industry speak I think (w/e the difference is) but "fat" as a prefix for e.g. scallops and strawberries always bugs me in a way I can't precisely articulate. just feels mannered and cloying

Calamari how I think of it:

http://www.gourmetsaint.com.au/images/Recipe2132.jpg

Mencap: yeah thats my bugbear and it is critics as much as restos themselves. Fat, plump, fresh (seriously, if you have to tout "fresh sushi" then I'm already suspicious).

like "fat strawberries"? i've never seen that at all. weird.

did someone already post that leaked list of the words staff in jamie oliver's restaurants are meant to use? that's basically the enemy here.

I always kick myself when calamari arrives deep fried. I should know by now because it's the default way to serve it in the UK but somehow I always imagine it how Trayce's picture shows.

Fuckin wish I hadnt GISed calamari, now I'm hungry and its 11pm and there will be no calamari salad for me.

Yeah, that's how I think of calamari.

Framer's Market is on campus today. Just bought some handmade bread; a pesto and sundried tomato plait, no less.

Sundried as opposed to sunnydried.

Who changes the board description? It ought to be No it's attacking a bullshit.

I accept that words get shortened, and so 'delicatessen' got routinely shortened to 'deli' in New York or wherever, but it seems to me that people here liked the sound of the contraction because it suggested America.

An American shortening of a French spelling of a German word! Does this make it triply horrifying or is it just the American part?

But I get annoyed when you go to a bog standard pub which is clearly just serving the same microwaved frozen pub grub it always has been but the menu and the prices have been through a gastropub-ifier. Like "ham, egg and chips, £5.95" has suddenly turned into "thick-cut Wiltshire ham with a duo of crispy pan-fried hen's eggs and golden triple-fried chips, £10.95" with no actual change in the food sourcing or preparation

but, you know, if the price was still the same I probably wouldn't care, and yes, it does sound more enticing like that, so I don't think I'll get very far with a letter to the pub chain's head office suggesting they stop making their menu sound nice

i think a lot of gastropubs now probably have well-sourced food or meat from animals that had a decent life, but they might still have a crappy chef.

During the summer, I work on a veg stall at a farmer's market. My farmer and I have quality LOLs whenever we sell smallish veg as 'baby' veg. It's a total wanker word but mein Gott does it work on customers.

But I get annoyed when you go to a bog standard pub which is clearly just serving the same microwaved frozen pub grub it always has been but the menu and the prices have been through a gastropub-ifier. Like "ham, egg and chips, £5.95" has suddenly turned into "thick-cut Wiltshire ham with a duo of crispy pan-fried hen's eggs and golden triple-fried chips, £10.95" with no actual change in the food sourcing or preparation

Haha, this happens on our street. One is a simple pub menu, the other has gastropub pretensions and descriptions. One is decent value, the other is £3-4 higher priced. Their deliveries from Brake Brothers come on the same van.

People fucking love the idea of eating babies.

So long as they're artisan babies

Best marker for fake gastro is when it's obvious they're serving you 'bag salad'.

Their deliveries from Brake Brothers come on the same van.

doesn't mean they're the same product.

An American shortening of a French spelling of a German word! Does this make it triply horrifying or is it just the American part?

Just the American, and I accept that my annoyance reflects my own cultural baggage. When I was growing up there were quite a few old-fashioned delicatessen shops around in London. It was clearly an imported concept from continental Europe (two in my area were run by Polish people, who presumably came here during or in the aftermath of WW2) but it didn't bother me.

doesn't mean they're the same product.

Agreed, but they are in this case. The stockroom in the gastropub means the stuff gets carried through the pub itself, so I've seen it. Plus all the local pub managers know each other and have discussed it according to one of them - neither of them sees it as competition because they feel they service different markets.

Definitely seems like a deliberately cynical rip-off, in a way that say an expensive club selling the same beer as a local boozer isn't. One assumes that paying more money for food means better quality ingredients & preparation - admittedly this is an assumption that should maybe be ditched after years of paying over the odds for distinctly average pub food.

But (I think) that's what dl's original point was - that the sort of words he's complaining about are designed and used to reinforce that very same assumption.

stolen

xp agreed but (as we've already thrashed over endlessly) it's not the words themselves, it's when they are deployed cynically & misleadingly.

Apart from 'artisan' / 'artisanal'. They're always shit.

But, again guessing because he didn't really make it clear, his point I think is that they're invariably deployed cynically and/or misleadingly. Whereas I don't agree it's inevitably the case, their overuse imo has made them essentially redundant except as terms to encourage you to infer better quality.

xpost to ledge

but the words listed have no coherency.

Quotidian is the only one I've never seen used so imply worth in food.

Yeah, that's baffling.

It's not the necessarily the meaning of the words (of course organic/locally sourced/traceable food is a good thing). My prob is when these words make their way into every other piece of marketing or menu item until they become pretty much meaningless flashcards. Same as the pub grub words with the "thick-cut honey glazed Wiltshire ham with a duo of hens eggs and triple-glazed frites" thing. It's the implication that unless a takeaway food item hasn't got the words "organic", "good", "honest", "traceable" in the product description, that one should assume it's filled with horse tranquilisers. It almost always justifies selling things for much more than they're actually worth. It's a very particular form of marketing-speak, not far off the Innocent Smoothies aesthetic, aimed at people who don't see the problem with spending over £3 on a cup of tea so long as it comes from a "deli" which is actually a sandwich van featuring a chalkboard menu with handdrawn smiley flowers on it.

etymology of "quotidian" as wanker word traceable to french expression "pain quotidien" ("daily bread"), leading inexorably to UK chain shop of same name touting simple, rustic etc and similarly inevitable jujitsu refraction/elevation of meaning from "routine", "explicitly not special" etc to "authentic" "elegant" humblebraggin

SYSTEMS THINKING

this is starting to merge with the various authenticity/handcrafted threads we've got, but i sort of blame anthony bourdain and his crackerjack idea to open a michelin-starred restaurant named after and inspired by "workers' brasseries" across the street from the famous (and defunct) parisian food market, les halles

LG asked for an example. This is what set me off on starting this thread - a pamphlet for the new lunch canteen. They've put all the FIWWs in the top left hand corner for ease of access. Every sandwich on the menu has to have the word "barn-raised" or "vine-grown" or the equivalent written before what it actually is - a chicken and tomato sandwich. And while I appreciate people like to know their food isn't poisoning them or the planet, why not just say all ingredients are ethically sourced where possible and be done with it? Maybe I'm missing the point, and that people are genuinely concerned whether their crayfish and rocket rustic olive bread are made from "creatively", but most of the time I would like to think I can trust an establishment not to feed me rubbish without having to scream so loudly about it.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/387488_10152610340060215_382595188_n.jpg

-from

(I'm not subbing myself very well today, i must admit)

Horse meat, dude, horse meat. Also, marketing.

Of course it's marketing. Vampirific marketing that feeds on the assumption that if you buy steak and chips it's guaranteed to be filled with hooves and horsehair unless it comes on an artisan slate and has been renamed a freelance rump with country-grown frites.

will you just stop, please. you ignore the arguments already made against what you just said then wheel back into range after 30 more posts, like some slurry-fed mothership. it's the same on any thread. just think ffs.

damn.

Come up with a decent argument and actually read what I write instead of being a total prick 100% of the time, LG, and I might just.

I already made the argument and you ignored it until such time as you saw fit to have another sub-Chris Morris adjective adhesive festival.

Please to reiterate your question because I believe I've answered it again and again and again. And all you can do is tell me to shut up, which is yeah, very funny and cutting and absolutely hilarious.

lmao

it's precisely because most say, meat, doesn't come from an animal that was well fed and had a good life that places need to say when it does. it supports the idea that it should and it supports the farmers who farm in that way. same is true of fruit or veg.

nobody is arguing that it'd be "nice" if this wasn't the case, but you're blaming the little guys here and acting like it's some fancy dan new-fangled idea for meat to come from a fucking farm and from an animal that ate grass.

it's not. your ronseal "steak and chips" is the product of the newer idea.

what's more i don't even think you've thought about why "traceable" might be "good, of course" - the fact you repeatedly conflate subjective terms like "honest" or "good" with "traceable" and "organic" doesn't bode well. sad day when kneejerk anti-marketing gobbles up genuine differences between products.

yeah i mean it's telling that "fair trade" is in yr list

the fact you can't distinguish between "traceable" and "fair trade" and "honest" or "good" while simultaneously lambasting the dumb sheeple for being "fooled" by all of these words really says a lot.

xxpost There are plenty of decent establishments that sell good quality products without having to smother their product descriptions with these terms. Usually they charge a realistic price for them.

The "little guys" you refer to in this case are, in many cases, opportunist catering firms using their "authentic", farmer's marketeering credentials to sell above-standard food products and impossibly sourced delicacies to moneyed city dwellers. They might not be Tesco or McDonalds, but they're not exactly changing the world for the better by charging so much for something that other establishments also do without the spectacle.

01010000011000000000000000111111111000

ah good. he's malfunctioning

like some slurry-fed mothership

http://i.imgur.com/GR3bPxQ.png

Where are the modest establishments that seek nothing other than subsistence-level profits and anonymous wholesomeness?

Yes, you get chancers in any field who catch onto a marketing trend like a blind ape without any substance to back it up, but you also do get actual serious organic wholesome artisan ethical traceable butchers and delicatessens and so on and so forth and they're, what, NOT ALLOWED to differentiate themselves against either Iceland or Farm Foods or your local Londis? wtf? You want to live in North Korea?

xpost the ones that know what the difference between a delicatessen and a sandwich shop.

i swear someone ludovico techniqued a young dog latin, using hovis ads

Yes, you get chancers in any field who catch onto a marketing trend like a blind ape without any substance to back it up, but you also do get actual serious organic wholesome artisan ethical traceable butchers and delicatessens and so on and so forth and they're, what, NOT ALLOWED to differentiate themselves against either Iceland or Farm Foods or your local Londis? wtf? You want to live in North Korea?

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 1 March 2013 15:10 (15 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Read the thread Mouthy mate, I can't be bothered to write everything again.

DL this is ALL about ONE pamphlet for ONE sandwich shop, right? And you've transposed this micro interaction onto the entire food industry?

LG, your Hovis ad joke never gets old.

DL this is ALL about ONE pamphlet for ONE sandwich shop, right? And you've transposed this micro interaction onto the entire food industry?

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 1 March 2013 15:14 (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe it's just Kings Cross as a whole, but it's everywhere round here. I don't really see this outside of London which is probably why I notice it so much.

LG, your Hovis ad joke never gets old.

There you go again.

There you go again

DL, you do seem to have a habit of taking quite small, individual experiences and projecting them onto the wider world in a way which can make you seem a little solipsistic.

Well, it's def something I've seen around for quite a number of years but was hammered home when I walked past no less than three vans/stalls where the buzzwords were written as large if not larger than the actual products they were describing, and then finding this pamphlet placed on my desk. Also, this is a sister thread to the Music Industry Wanker Words thread and maybe not supposed to be taken as seriously as all that. Someone else must have noticed this. I mean, the delicatessen (an actual SHOP that sells more than a couple of lousy sandwiches) in Hitchin doesn't do this. If something's organic or locally sourced, it's written on the packaging but it's not emblazoned all over in authentic-looking cap-script.

i guess i can kind of see how overuse of some of these terms might drain some of their meaning, but your obsession with "delicatessen" is just baffling

that was one of 19 examples. someone else was arguing about it upthread.

http://www.kfc.co.uk/our-food/deli-deluxe-range

And to be fair, when is a salad bar in a canteen or rail station a "deli"?

can't believe kentucky fried chicken are trying to evoke the food culture of a different country

the brass neck

It's tilting at windmills and ergo vaguely crazy but it's kind of sweetly idealistic.

the burgers in mcdonalds are arguably not the best burgers around.

i like the way you're a wanker if you use "grass-fed" or whatever and yet how dare kfc use the hallowed term "deli"

i think people are misinterpreting how sincerely i feel about things ITT. jees guys, it's a parody thread, not a political manifesto.

No, DL, you don't have a sense of humour, and aren't allowed to do parody or irony threads.

I don't suppose now is a good time to mention 'hand-crafted' as a wanker word

becuase it is driving me insane. it's everywhere in Sacramento right now and I haaate it

handcrafted baked goods, handcrafted lattes, handcrafted sandwiches...makes everything sound like a sewing bee

you know what this thread needs

some super-saddened cheez-gutted wolf meat

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9uwyqOjg51r05508o1_400.jpg

hand-crafted donkey sauce

why do they put all those fruity descriptions on wine bottles, it's all just pretentious twaddle, they should just say "red" or "white" imo

https://images.awesomebooks.com/images/books/medium/97807/9780718154400.jpg

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjE2NTQ4MzcxN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzAzMzcyMQ@@._V1_SX214_.jpg

http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType-100/0211-1/%7B8E436A55-72BE-4182-9051-10F35467E11E%7DImg100.jpg

http://stuartr.co.uk/DeliciousLibrarySite/covers/book/book152.jpg

Yes it's important to like everything

Some restaurants definitely put their genius and effort into the menu descriptions rather than the food itself.

Some serious bad vibes in this thread. But Mr Latin you have a point and it is very much a thing.

not every restaurant is good

3. HomeHousemade

for singlehandedly turning a dim list thread into a run at all-time glory i present to local garda this locally-sourced ribbon

http://www.funservicesinc.com/party_supplies_prizes/images/MVP_Ribbon.jpg

never forget

I was looking in M&S earlier and they totally do this in their food hall - all the single portion ready-mades for pensioners say "cottage pie", yet move into the deli range and it names the potato types throws in buzzwords all over the shop.

I've thought of a great Bristol example too - those two twat brothers on Channel 4 are from Herbert's bakery. A well-respected local place, and 10 years ago it was there and The Bread Store that supplied pretty much all the cafes etc. About 5 years ago Hooper's House bread started popping up, usually in the Stokes Croft trustifarian hangouts and for the past year there's been a pop-up bread store in the old Sofa Riot. Generally their bread is about £1 a loaf more expensive than Herbert's, but you know, taking on the big boys, can't get economies of scale etc. Then I found out last week it's the same people, from the same bakery. They're keeping that quiet, and similarly that they've started a pie company for the same sort of cafes which is being marketed as a home kitchen start-up company.

have you guys seen this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu8QthlZ6hY

it doesn't really have anything to do with this thread. kinda wonder when it will be yanked by bigfood.

m&s is a premium supermarket, most customers probably want to know the details of the food, i'd have said.

as for potato types, both my grannys (rip) would discuss different potato brands as if they were obscure german techno labels.

There's a joke about the Irish obsessing over potatoes in there somewhere.

I swear to god, I think it's common enough, based on conversations with friends. I can remember finding it so boring as a kid when my granny would ask what the potatoes were and then discuss various potatoes she had recently eaten or her personal preferences and long-standing bowel disagreements with "records" (a type of potato) or "kerr's pinks".

yeah who the hell doesn't know or are about the difference between varieties of potatos? I work in the fruit & veg section at t£$¢o & believe me, this isn't a food snob thing - it's an everyone thing. Is it silly to have a preferenced for different types of apple?

*know or care

I have to say my series of posts last night were classic "go to bed wins" posts, sorry if I came across a bit aggy dog latin. But fwiw "Yes it's important to like everything" is not what I was trying to say there at all, it was just that some of the rhetoric itt sounded awfully familiar to me. Like for me the main thing that links the 3 things I posted isn't "complaining" or "being negative". It's that ime the sort of ppl who'd have a problem with words like "traceable" being used tend to reside somewhere along the clarkson/grumpy old men/never use a long word when a short one will do axis. Not suggesting you're like that of course but you're not keeping the best company

My point is that the regular product just tells you what it is. The more expensive it gets, the flowerier the language on the cardboard sleeve gets (even if it looks fairly indistinguishable in the packaging). It also leads to a more fundamental question - why wouldn't you use the best potatoes for, say, mashing in all your product that has mashed potato in it? The fact you're bothering to mention what it is on the sleeve means you're making a distinction which must surely be to imply they're better.

Actually M&S are the kings of this - they have a 'gastro' range and a 'deli' range named in exactly the way dl was complaining at the top. With no context and just to imply they're better.

They probably are better though! Of course you'd want to draw attention to the product with the nicer ingredients.

It also leads to a more fundamental question - why wouldn't you use the best potatoes for, say, mashing in all your product that has mashed potato in it?

for the same reason not all chickens are free-range & corn-fed. It's no mystery.

btw idg this one:

9. Basket

what does this refer to?

repurposing

flavor profile

unsure of the wank factor of these terms but here they are

Hehe, it's cool wins. I think I was having a funny old day and my cranky side came out. It's not like this actually enrages me as much as I was making out. A shitty morning and then being faced by that pamphlet was enough to turn me into Victor Meldrew.

i can take all the buzzwords if it means that i can get pork belly and kimchi tacos at the lunch place on the corner. and i can. and i did yesterday! mmmmmmm.....

this was not an option in the woods of new england until the foodie explosion.

I get the annoyance at this shit but it only bothers me if the food itself doesn't live up to the language describing it, which generally happens at chain-y places that are trying to latch onto the foodie trend. even something like "chipotle mayo"...I never taste chipotle in it. "honey-glazed smoked chicken". really? tastes blander than bland, no honey or smokiness.

Actually M&S are the kings of this - they have a 'gastro' range and a 'deli' range named in exactly the way dl was complaining at the top. With no context and just to imply they're better.

this is branding, it's similar, if more subtle, to their having "chinese" or "indian" on the types of food. the gastro stuff is shit like scotch eggs or pub type food and the deli stuff is cold meats or antipasti or "things you buy in a deli".

The more expensive it gets, the flowerier the language on the cardboard sleeve gets (even if it looks fairly indistinguishable in the packaging). It also leads to a more fundamental question - why wouldn't you use the best potatoes for, say, mashing in all your product that has mashed potato in it?

Most stuff in M&S is more expensive, if you're paying extra then you may want to know what you're paying for in more detail.

The idea that lies grow along with price was probably invented by the marketing industry.

You also get more flowery/obsequious language in posher branches of supermarkets than in the same supermarket in a sketchier area. In Sketchytown, a sign will say 'sorry about the mess, we're remodeling' while the branch in Poshville's sign will say 'please accept our sincere apologies for the appearance of this branch while we undergo refurbishment'. ISTR that one branch was in Archway and the other I compared it to was in Highgate.

Bethnal Green Tesco says "if you don't like it, fuck off"

Suzy In Sketchytown sounds like the best Tama Janowitz short story.

LOL at the pair of you.

I'm not sure why LG assumes that dl doesn't understand the concepts of branding and marketing? Because, tbh, I thought that was exactly what this thread was about - branding tactics that annoy? I mean, I could take a pedantic, condescending tone on the 'Innocent Smoothies' thread and explain exactly what it is they're doing and why it works, but that's not really the spirit of the thread, and I'm fairly sure most people on there understand the branding strategy, they just think it's horrible.

Nothing that comes out of a meeting room where at least five of the attendees are wearing horrible black viscose trousers is going to produce branding that doesn't annoy the fuck out of most of ILX.

xp I guess it's a baby/bathwater thing w this thread. I mean the innocent smoothies aesthetic is straight-up horrible, but to charge in saying that "fairtrade", "homemade" and "traceable" are wanker words is a little uhh

but dl has already explained that it was a lazy friday semi-serious feigned-anger-on-the-internet thread & I guess we should have treated it as such from the start

When did the artisinal/americanism/locavore thing start happening in London? I've spent a lot of time in Brooklyn over the last year or so and remember thinking this right here isn't something you really see in London, then all of a sudden it seemed everyone in London was talking about this stuff. Can't tell if it was in London longer and I just didn't notice, or if it suddenly sprung up at some point during the last year

it usually takes at least 2 or 3 years to swim across the ocean.

the spotted pig certainly infuential here. via england. via alice waters. via nyc. everyone wanted to open up a place like that after that place opened up.

I'm not sure why LG assumes that dl doesn't understand the concepts of branding and marketing? Because, tbh, I thought that was exactly what this thread was about - branding tactics that annoy? I mean, I could take a pedantic, condescending tone on the 'Innocent Smoothies' thread and explain exactly what it is they're doing and why it works, but that's not really the spirit of the thread, and I'm fairly sure most people on there understand the branding strategy, they just think it's horrible.

I don't think that's an accurate summary of the arguments on this thread, at all.

perhaps they can be re-enacted for those who weren't present first time round

joeks, obv