body positivity!!

continued from this old thread:

the right to be fat?

please, no body shaming or bullshit. don't be a dick. this is a positive thread.

i don't have any particulars to add, but just generally want to throw in my two cents that this is a wonderful thread idea and i hope it lives a long and successful life.

hell yeah, jvc otm

and much thanks to h2

on the chance that carl agatha looks at this thread, i want to thank her for her righteous post in that other thread, which i hope drops off the face of site new answers forever.

in orbit's posts in that thread about learning to look at other people's bodies kindly is also key imo.

speaking of threads long gone, you should copy over your last long post, homosexual ii. would be a great way to start things off.

Seconded. That post was OTMFM.

i liked the part in there about ignoring everything the media says and wearing what you want and looking how you want and feeling good. i've come around to genuinely liking my body now that i think of it as my personal body container -- i'm stuck inside this thing forever (as long as my brain holds out) so i might as well feel good about it. i don't like talking about it, or hearing other people talk about it or having people comment on it or w/e -- it's just this thing that carries me around, it does a pretty good job, there's not much else to say. i like to put clothes on it, but i strongly don't like people making stealth comments about my body under the guise of comments about my clothes.

that was a good post. i'll let her repost it though.

Here ya go!!

I want to start a new thread about body positivity and fat experiences that have nothing to do with dieting, eating, the weight loss industry, etc - because I view those things as harmful. The rest of the world talks about that enough, and it gets tiring.

The way I see it is, a fat person shouldn't have to share their story just in order to not be treated as a moral failure. I could tell people about all the times I TRIED TO BE 'GOOD' and how I have bad genes and etc and the point is I shouldn't have to. You can't visually estimate my health with a single glance. Also, being found as attractive or as a sex object isn't a solve. I shudder when I hear things like "curves in the right places" or "more pushin' for the cushin'" because is that supposed to make everything all better?

I am a fat woman, I eat a LOT, not going to lie, and I love the way I look - TRULY. I wear whatever I want, and I don't care if anyone decides to fatcall me. I have women come up to me all the time and tell me I am beautiful, and those compliments are appreciated, and I hear from women even half my size: "I wish I had your confidence." I can't tell you exactly how I got there, but most of it was rejecting the modern attitude about health and size and changing how I looked at beauty. Because really, it was never about my health before, I mostly felt I didn't deserve to even be seen because I felt disgusting and unwanted due to how film, television, men, and the fashion industry treated me.

No one has to prove they're healthy to you just to not be judged. It's no one's obligation to be healthy. I shudder when I hear fat people try to prove their case for how healthy they really are. It shouldn't matter. Just don't be a dick. You don't know anyone's story. Don't treat ANYONE as though you know their story based on your own tiny set of experiences. Don't cite medical journals, because you look like a dick. 'Calories in/calories out - it's simple!" is not helpful.

this is a gripe:

It'd be nice if from now on in OkCupid messages, guys could refrain from mentioning my "curves" in an opening message. It's really gross.

Honest question: do any average/slim people get messages saying "I really like your slim build," and the like?

perhaps I should have posted that in the OkCupid thread!

What up.

horseshoe, you are the wind beneath my (bingo) wings.

yaaaay!!

Just want to thank homoII, carlA, in orbit, LL, et. al for being consistently awesome rocks of body positivity. Whenever I have moments of weakness and start thinking I ought to lose 10 pounds, I think of ya'll and realize that is stinkin' thinkin', I am perfectly fine just the way I am.

I was very heartened by CarlA and gbx and others a while back when I was wavering between a Weight Watchers subscription and buying new (larger) pants and everyone was like "fuck a WW, get new pants." I got new pants. They are a bigger size than I ever imagined I would wear back when I was an anorexic size 4 and miserable. Now I am size 10 and happy as a clam. Fuck a weight, happy is attractive as all hell.

i have no need for ok cupid but people say/have said that to me (mostly women) and it's totally embarrassing. it's true that i'm a small person, but i don't see why it should be a topic of conversation. mostly i think people's bodies and their shapes are kind of off limits as far as conversational topics go.

that was xp to HII's q

mostly i think people's bodies and their shapes are kind of off limits as far as conversational topics go.

― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Monday, July 8, 2013 12:01 PM (45 seconds ago)

otm. i'm always taken aback when someone suddenly decides that this would be a great thing to mention/discuss. happens pretty rarely though, and it's usually (somewhat) passive hostility.

Also:

No one has to prove they're healthy to you just to not be judged. It's no one's obligation to be healthy. I shudder when I hear fat people try to prove their case for how healthy they really are. It shouldn't matter.

Yeah, seriously. I did that a little in my flip-out post, and I did read a couple of follow ups including one where somebody was like, "Why are people giving healthy hot fatties a hard time!" and was like... come on. My post was intended in part as a refutation of the "EAT LESS MOVE MORE, DUH" crowd but truly. Nobody owes their health to anybody. Also being considered fuckable is not the entry point for not being treated like shit because of your size.

i'm in pretty good shape by my own lifetime experience and by contemporary standards, and i don't have much body positivity for myself at all, so i'll be reading this with much appreciation.

I like this new home, it feels almost as good as my elastic-waisted yoga pants that I wear at home 22 hours a day! No seriously, I've been to the beach 2 days in a row and if you ever want to see every kind of body ever invented, go to a New York City beach. They're all there. It's refreshing.

Yesterday my body put on a bathing suit, rode a bike, carried it up and down some stairs, and swam around choppy water perfectly comfortably for hours. It even got a little bit of a tansunburn. Thanks, body!

In return for its dedicated and loyal service, I fed my body beer. It's just a little arrangement we have.

yeah i remember around the time i was having a conversion experience to liking my body, the beach helped a lot.

Totally. When we first moved to the beach I found it very weird to be wearing v. little clothing all the time, and seeing everyone else in v. little clothing. Now I walk around nekkid half the time and don't give a fuck, it is hot!

on the looking kindly on others' bodies thing, here are some posts i made in the no boys allowed thread a while back. i didn't want to post other people's stuff without permission, but it was a discussion about body positivity, in a way:

i actually have a lot of hokey things i do to make myself feel better about this stuff, like look at other women's bodies and think nice thigns about them.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:47 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like, a range of body types i mean

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that sounds weird, but when i was at my worst about this stuff i was ridiculously punishing of my own body and other womens unless they fit a ridiculously narrow (in every sense) archetype. i literally had crazy eyes. it's better now.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like, this will sound trivial but i had the experience after i stopped being so crazy of going back and seeing movies that i had watched in that crazy frame of mind and thinking, how could i have thought this incredibly thin actress was fat? seriously that intense punishing gaze is some funhouse mirror shit.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 9:57 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You (modestly?) left it out but I liked the part where you wondered if all that time you were just hungry.

haha i was worried it sounded glib! but i was really hungry, guys!

xp ^ I do that "think a nice thing about women you see" exercise a lot. I think that was a suggestion from K@t3 H@rd1ng that you sent me long ago, horseshoe? It's fucking exhausting (I live in a big city and see a LOT of women so sometimes it's like, "Nice hair nice bag ummm good posture) but really helpful when I find myself lapsing into a patterns of self-loathing or just general body snarking.

The Story of My Weight, by Aimless

I've had it easier than most. When I was a little kid my mom took me to the doctor and said, he seems so skinny, is there something wrong with him? The doctor asked, does he act healthy? Yes. Then there's nothing wrong with him. My mom took this to heart. I happily forgot all about it. I was healthy!

In adolescence I hated being so skinny. Skinny was not sexy. Skinny was not strong or dangerous. Real he-men were muscly and had big chests with chest hair. At least I knew I was healthy. It didn't help much, though. It didn't seem like much of a prize.

In early adulthood I was still skinny and I began to realize that this was ok. I was even lucky in a way, because at least I was less likely to die of heart disease, which seemed to be a big problem for older men.

In middle adulthood I quit smoking and gained some weight. No big deal. I'd been too skinny anyway. My daughter was born with a zillion medical problems and I was stressed out and gained weight. First I was her caregiver, then I had a desk job. I gained more weight. I'd look in the mirror and see my face getting softer and more shapeless, but what really bothered me wasn't that I wasn't sexy anymore. I knew my health was getting to be a mess. I looked a mess. The excess weight was just a minor part of the whole out-of-jointness of my life.

In late middle age I finally got my family life in better shape. I quit my job for a while and set out to fix my life as much as I could. I drank less. I hiked as much as I could. I backpacked. I walked every day. I lost weight. I started feeling healthier again. I was relieved, not because I thought I looked sexier, but because I worried less about dying young of heart disease. I feel better. My body is nearer to the shape it wants to be.

I still have very skinny arms and legs. The middle not so much. That's fine. I'm healthy!

yeah, k@t3 h4rd1ng changed my life in this way, basically.

xp

One time when I was very thin due to my Amazing Dieting Success, I remember telling Je55e that I got really angry at fat people because I'm doing all this work and sacrificing so much free time and relaxation to be thin so why the hell aren't they doing the same thing?

It's a totally gross thing to say, but it certainly explains a certain mentality that I encounter a lot and it gives me some compassion, even, for people who take up "the fight against obesity" as their life's crusade.

That was to address horseshoe's comment wondering if she was just hungry all the time. Part of my fat hate of old was 100% because I was hungry all the time.

Kind of like prudery gets worse among people who aren't getting any sex.

I've slowly grown more positive about my body. Running in different types has had a big effect on it. I used to would not run in anything less that just above the knee shorts. Not practical in the heat and humidity of summer. Now my favorite shorts are these tiny ones with a 3.5" inseam. Same thing with tops, I really like singlets now instead of just short sleeve shirts. I blend right in on the lakefront path with everyone else wearing as little as possible to be comfortable. Running by bro bars to get to the lakefront can be challenging at times, but really, I don't care what drunk people yell at me.

Same thing in winter, I used to not wear tights without having shorts over them. It was annoying to have to wrangle so many clothes just to go running, so I went with just the tights and it ended up being NBD.

It didn't magically make me love everything about my body but my crazy eye was KOed when I stopped living in neighborhoods where everyone else was young, homogenous, and generally had the same anxieties re weight as I did. It has flipped my world to be around happy, sexy, normal, unskinny women who have active romantic lives and are desired by others. It's good to be reminded that if I never find love at least it won't be because of my body.

xpost, different types of weather

re: your heart disease comments, Aimless - just one scholarly article about "the obesity paradox" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538467/ (google for many more).

Basically, it is doctor's scratching their heads because they just know that being fat causes heart disease, but fat people have lower mortality rates from heart disease than thin people do.

Women of all ages, I should say. The one/s who have survived things, like the death of their children or their own breast cancer or any number of things, sure they're like "I keep that dress in case I can ever fit into it again" but it's not stopping them from being grateful to be alive, or from having younger boyfriends, or eating a doughnut, or anything else they want. I feel like this outlook had just never been modeled for me! It's great.

I do that "think a nice thing about women you see" exercise a lot. I think that was a suggestion from K@t3 H@rd1ng... It's fucking exhausting ... but really helpful when I find myself lapsing into a patterns of self-loathing or just general body snarking.

― carl agatha, Monday, July 8, 2013 12:46 PM (1 minute ago)

sounds like good advice, tbh. there was some related discussion in the previous thread, and i've been thinking about it since, the idea that one might learn self-acceptance by consciously working to accept others. worth a shot, though i haven't yet had much opportunity to try it out (most everyone i work with and live near is a good deal thinner and more active than I).

anyway, i'm a bit saddened by some of the turns the discussion has taken today, but no complaints. i can't force people to engage w/ conversations they'd rather avoid, and dwelling on feelings of negativity and despair is never agl.

I just try to listen to what my body says it wants me to do. It's smarter about this stuff than my brain is. All I know is that it feels healthier now than it did before. My body was born skinny and it prefers that way to be. Maybe I'll still die of a heart attack. I feel ok atm and that's as well as I know how to gauge things. I'll die one way or another anyway.

I'm not a woman, so I have no clue just how women feel when they feel healthy. I do know the whole "am I attractive" rigmarole is tremendously messed up in this society and it's easier for a skinny man to get over it than for a zaftig woman.

yeah i remember around the time i was having a conversion experience to liking my body, the beach helped a lot.

That's part of the reason I've been wanting to go to the beach -- I feel like it will give me the energy I need to feel positive about myself and my body. Also it's an excuse to be outside & not feel like I have to cover up or be worried about whatever clothes I might be wearing otherwise. I'm not "fat" but my weight fluctuates a lot because of my illness; I haven't been able to find any clothes that I feel good in yet. I always feel sick and I feel like I look sick too. If I could get at least a day of sunlight without all the stress I'd feel so much better.

It's gonna take me a while to be able to say with 100% honesty that I like the person I see when I look in the mirror. That might sound dumb, idk. It's not even mostly the way I look that bothers me, it's also the way I think & act & feel. I know I'm not an ugly person but I have a lot of social anxiety baggage that's gonna take time to work through. (Sorry for being 25 itt.)

^ feeling this, though i'm a long way from even contemplating a trip to the beach

lol, what was i just saying?

I specif noticed multiple women with post-childbirth stomachs wearing bikinis yesterday, I found that very cheering.

Contendo, I usually do the "think a nice thing" on my way to and from work since I commute via public transit and see lots and lots of people that way. I don't know where you live but pretty much any place where there are lots of people (mall? I don't know) is good, especially if there are diverse bodies around you. If I were limited to doing that where I work now, I'd have similar problems. Also for me it works better when I think about strangers because then I don't overthink my mental compliments or like, skip someone because I'm annoyed at her for not responding quickly to the email I sent her last week or whatever.

I don't really identify with the thinking negative thoughts about others that you guys are talking about -- all of my negative feelings have been directed solely at myself. Mostly because I felt invisible. I still feel invisible, but now I embrace it and use it to my advantage.

A shallow but helpful exercise for me: instead of thinking about changing my body, I focus on my hair.

Or lipstick.

i feel like i'm meant to be fat. my parents and all my siblings are fat. i love eating. i love drinking beers. every time i have 2+ beers i put on a noticeable chunk. i have a belly pouch that never goes away.

i hate feeling fat tbh. i'm going to have to confront some other issues to be ok with my body as-is. if i did i think it could be very liberating, but i'm wishy-washy when it comes to actually letting go of... not wanting to be fat. i'll also be watching this thread with interest and appreciate hearing about other experiences and paths to greater acceptance, awareness, non-neurotic behavior, etc.

Anything focused on my corporeal self usually winds up making me feel bad if I already feel bad -- best to learn something new, read about other people, do something nice for someone else, whatever distracts me from my boring self. Right now I am learning to play the drums and it's really empowering, if we're talking about empowerment!! I'm using my body to make noise. That's awesome and I hope to continue to get better at it.

I'm totally meant to be fat.

If you want to feel comfortable in your own skin, go to the clothing optional swingers pool.

that does not sound very comfortable

I have been on a long path to body acceptance for the past four years or so. Mostly, I lived out my twenties trying to be as invisible as possible until I was small enough to be a worthwhile person (or so I thought). I am not sure when the shift happened, but it began in 2010 and it continues to be an area in which I am constantly exploring. I do know that I used to cringe whenever someone took a photo of me, and I looked fat in said photo. Now I have a different reaction. I think: yep, that's me. I'm fat. It's okay for fat people to look fat in photos.

that does not sound very comfortable

― crüt, Monday, July 8, 2013 10:11 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was way way more comfortable that I expected it to be!

I've felt awkward & frumpy at every weight (with intervals of feeling awesome). I was rather skinny throughout adolescence and young adulthood. I think I actually received more direct commentary on my body when I was thin than I do now that I'm fat. And yeah, it was always very patronizing & made me self-conscious. Now I kind of assume people are talking about my weight behind my back. I try not to sweat it, but there are times it makes me very uncomfortable. I feel like now that I'm heavier, I am hyper-aware of my body in a way I wasn't before. Not necessarily hateful, but just...always aware that other people see it and it's a thing.

http://i40.tinypic.com/mwxro5.png

This photo was taken in 2008, and I was appalled when I saw it. I don't look happy here, either. I remember being unhappy, too. I ate a lot, because I was miserable. The other women in this photo all went hot tubbing later that night, but I stood on the side lines, fully clothed, because I didn't even own a bathing suit. I never went out and socialized, and I never even tried dating.

http://i42.tinypic.com/t8lmw0.png

This photo was taken in Summer 2012, and even though I am visibly fat here, I had no negative reactions to when it appeared on Facebook. I was happy that night. In fact, that particular night I had an awesome weird sexual encounter with someone I met at the club. I had worn through those high heels from wearing them out so much.

I weighed pretty much the same in both photos, and literally the only difference is my feelings about my body (and with it came a much improved wardrobe).

Whenever I have seen photos of homoII my first thought is always 1) omg best outfit and/or 2) omg best hair and/or makeup. I have always admired your style and wished I had that knack! So it is a head-scratcher to me that you did not want to be photodocumented when you were looking so aweseome. Seriously, being able to put a great outfit together is so much more impressive than being thin imo.

is it wrong to think judging somebody for being a "bad dresser" is as bad as judging somebody for being fat?

There is a difference between judging someone as being a "bad dresser" and acknowledging when someone has a gift for great fashion skillz.

honestly I think everybody should be judged exactly the same all the time but that is probably because I am a loser and want people to treat me like I'm not a loser

sorry. I need to get off the positivity thread.

It's kinda wrong to judge ppl in general, no?

I am a loser in some ways and not in others, everyone else the same, KIP crut it is all good.

But judging negatively is not the same as appreciating something positively amirite? Like, I admire LL's cooking skillz, this is not the same as looking down my nose at someone without those skillz.

I can accept that.

I guess the point of my photos was to illustrate how prior to fat acceptance, I was not the best dresser (because I didn't believe my body really deserved to display awesome clothes? Or also because I was constantly making BIG PLANS to lose weight?), and I LOOKED and felt unhappy.

After FA, I felt better, looked better, and no longer dodged the camera.

I would be totally psyched to go to 7-11 with markers for some hot dogs, is what I am saying. At the same time I can be all "LL makes some awesome food, I aspire to that" kinda thing.

oops xposts

and also its made me a more tolerant, open person

:) xxp

i think clothes can be a reflection of how you feel about yourself in a way that body size doesn't. one of many ways!

I used to hide in huuuuuge droopy thrift store clothes so people wouldn't look at me and around 22 or so I started dressing a little better (more femininely at least) and now I wear whatever I want. I don't think this phenomenon is limited to larger people. It sure feels good to not hide anymore, that's for sure.

Lemme say sure again. Sure.

Sure!

flesh as a sign of a life enthusiastically lived

vs.

flesh as a sign of measurements made (or not made)

Xp yes, the clothes and new attitude make a world of difference. You look great! That is one thing I do have to say in favor of "what not to wear"--they always emphasize that now is the time to look good & to "blame the clothes, not your body" if you feel like you don't look good.

That said, I don't like the emphasis on dos & don'ts and the conformity they force on ppl. Sometimes the point of dressing isn't to flatter your figure.

I don't really like "What not to wear" because they use the same aesthetic for everyone. People are allowed to have their own sense of style! It's all very bland and generic. And yeah, according to the rules of flattering clothes, I should never wear horizontal stripes or anything without a fucking belt at "the smallest part of my waist"

great pics h2, thanks for sharing them. i swear i know the dude in photo 2.

anyway, yeah, attitude is everything (or, well, almost everything). when i'm happy, i'm p much okay w me, no matter who or how i be. when not, then not.

You might know him, He is a well-known man about town in NYC

Notable: http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/06/self-love-is-not-an-obligation-so-stop-preaching-it/

The problem, dear people who are fond of motivational sayings, is not that people don’t have the mental will to access some elusive well of self-love. Instead, the real problem is that you, your mother and your cousin, too, spend all day, every day affirming that some people have every reason to love the way they look (i.e. Rihanna) and that other people have no business doing the same (i.e. people who look more like Gabourey Sidibe, whose looks all of you happily dissed when Kanye West rapped, “my bitch make your bitch look like Precious.”)

A $60 billion weight loss industry and a $170 billion cosmetics industry—not to mention the influence of magazines, television shows, films and music—valiantly combine to ensure we all hate every dimple, pimple, roll, stretch mark, wrinkle and pore.

I call it victim-blaming. How dare you, fat, dark-skinned woman with nappy hair, not love yourself the way some thin, white woman with straight hair is apparently able to? It’s no matter that your image, when it’s ever spotted in media or referenced in music, is maligned and deemed pungent on its face. It’s no matter that every encounter with mainstream culture tells you that you’re wrong and different. You are just not trying hard enough to accept yourself, damnit!

Also homo, I love your glasses in the first pic.

love this thread, learning to love my beer wobble

In my mid 20s I was skinny as a rake with no tits and I hid under loose tshirts and baggy pants (lol 90s) and I now regret that massively because I was always cute and just didnt KNOW it back then. TBH I also didnt care, but I always felt very plain, dumpy and invisible.

Now I have boobs and arse but it comes with the acceptance of sagging and age but I think I'm ok with it. My issue is less with weight (tho I'd be happy with my size if I had BOOBS which I just dont) than it is with frumpiness tbh. And now, with age. Watching one's face slowly gravitate downwards is alarming.

This isn't specifically on-topic but I've read this thing 3 times and I keep marveling at it.

The Young-Girl and the Selfie

The Young-Girl is the model citizen of contemporary society not because we worship her, but because by expending her energy on the cultivation of her body, her potential as a revolutionary subject is neutralized. If young girls are the hated bodies of capital (along with immigrant bodies, racialized bodies, LGBT bodies, etc) then they must also be predictable bodies; that is why we spend inordinate amount of money on emphasizing the important of beauty, the importance of fashion, the importance of youthfulness and desirability and individuality. If the best way of making your womanhood legible is to adorn your body in a particular way — whether femme or punk rock or teeny bopper or whatever — then there is an injunction to perform that work. Women who do not do that work, particularly teenage girls who ‘opt out’ as it were, face social repercussions far more meaningful than some 40-year-old dude calling them narcissists. We elevate the work women do on their bodies to the utmost importance, and then punish the outcome of that labour. That is how hegemony works.

A) lol grads skool
B) Whoah

duckface as Most Radical Gesture

I know this is more a thread about body, but can it be about face too? Thats the bit of me I hate most and struggle to love as I age. I pull m skin back Brazil-style and wonder about plastic surgery... then slap myself :)

lol okay Mandee, I've been thinking that guy looked familiar too but since you said he's in NYC I gave it some real thought and...was he on a makeover tv show? This is a long shot, I know.

Trayce, faces are part of bodies IMO. Also aging is definitely part of my struggle to KIP re my body and I have a lot to say but will save it for later when I'm awake.

ah man sometimes i look every day of my age plus a few more years on top but then other times i feel like i'm still not half as haggard as i could be

i am a grizzled hoos. okay w that tbh.

^ or so i'm told

I try to remind myself that things are not going to get any better, so I could spend this time feeling bad about what I used to look like or I could whoop it up (whatever I've still got) while I still have it. Trying to stop aging or "reduce" it will not stop the passage of time. I understand that there is a huge cosmetics industry devoted to anti-aging creams, but something tells me that it's snake oil and the only way out is to enjoy what I can of the good years. Because someday we're all going to look old because we will all be old.

i come across a bunch of people on OKCupid who are apparently younger than me and look older than me

we're going to have to figure out how to still feel good about ourselves when physical beauty is off the table
might as well start now so i'm set with a full tank of self-esteem when i'm 60

i think on the whole people of our generation look more "youthful" than people of my mom and dad's generation. i also think most of us adjust our notions of beauty as we get older - i can't imagine being repulsed by everybody my own age, that would be effed up. and age is really this factor that you only recognize in yrself, by remembering yrself - as far as looks go it's really only a small factor in the mix of what makes somebody attractive

i'm talking about the way we feel about ourselves, not our desirability to others necessarily
being attractive to others isn't really what this thread is about, is it? it's about how we feel about ourselves?

maybe i'm confused

no you're right but i was thinking about how we appraise ourselves and it's tied into the way we appraise others isn't it? i feel like it is for me, or like i'm not thinking "do i like the way i look?" but "will other people like the way i look?"

see, that's where we're different

i think if other people weren't in the equation i wd be 100 percent contented with me on the surface, just the aches and pains i can do without

what you say is interesting to me, and maybe it's a gendered experience? do women learn to appraise themselves differently to men on the whole do you think?

i can't control what other people think, i can only control what i think (and just barely). i focus on feeling comfortable for me; if people like to/can't bear to look at me that's not really my problem. one time one of my students told me, "if my husband saw me wearing your outfit, he would tell me i looked ridiculous" and i was like "would you have any interest in wearing this outfit?" and she said no, and i was like well ok then. no problem.

i have forced myself to appraise myself this way because i would never measure up otherwise. it's a learned skill, imo!

yeah, maybe trying to second guess other people is one of my secret little headfucks

I was all prepared for her to be like "I wish I could wear that kind of outfit too."

Well that's interesting, I just came here to say I think I maintain body positivity to some extent by just making a mental break from allowing myself to care if it's attractive to others. I can love it, because I live in it and it does things for me, and that makes me love its capabilities, but expecting other ppl to love it is too impossible to imagine. In a fatalistic but kind of cheerful way!

It's not the end of the world, if I don't care how I look to others I get to keep wearing the ugliest, most horrible house-clothes and they're so comfortable.

my round the house clothes are all hilariously grotty

tbf i wd live in a dressing gown and shorts if i was allowed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOnZ3YtA1Q0

basically Eazy is my inspiration

someday we're all going to look old because we will all be old. we're going to have to figure out how to still feel good about ourselves when physical beauty is off the table
might as well start now so i'm set with a full tank of self-esteem when i'm 60

You're so right that this is, like, echoing in my head.

xp I have tshirts I used to line-cook in when I was 16. They look like it.

it's sustainable energy at the most personal level

Good article on selfies xp. It can't be overstated how stupid and short sighted it is to complain about "narcissism of the youth" instead of the hegemonic systems that produce these insecure subjects

aging and physical appearance are such a weird thing to address, because while there's the actual physical process of aging that some people view as a negative, there's also the fact that many people feel more comfortable in their own skin as they age and that confidence can change perceptions

I know in the last five or so years I've definitely physically aged, partially due to a lot of stressors I had in my life and a bit of hard living. But I've also become much more comfortable with who I am and my appearance. So last week I was flattered when I got id'ed to buy beer, but then I was also flattered when someone at a bar (where I feel comfortable hanging out and talking to strangers) guessed my age within a year -- one year older, actually!

I think that was the biggest lie that was implied when I was a kid -- that you make it through puberty, and become an adult, and then as an adult you're supposed to stay relatively the same physically until you "get old" and any other changes are because you did something negative (got fat), or did something positive (started some crazy fitness thing).

This is kind of all bullshit because everyone is constantly changing, not just due to age but their environment, and there's no inherent good/bad value judgment. They're just changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMGRYWFD-2A

oh, you

i think everyone just needs to listen to zen arcade enough times and they will come out on the other side of the tunnel

(not really but it helps)

I'm on a slow climb out of negativeheadspace -- i'm nowhere near KIP but I've discovered that being fat and looking good is as simple as a) wearing stuff that makes me happy and/or b)smiling because I'm happy

like the difference in the 2 photos homoII posted for me comes down to the look on her face - the first she just looks sad (and the first thing I said to myself was oh damn I know that face) and in the second, she looks unfuckwithable because she's fucking BEAMING.

for me I'm just trying to learn not to mentally retreat when I'm out in the world, but be present and enjoy just being me out in the world.

so, that.

be present and enjoy just being me out in the world.

<3 <3 <3 <3

hello thread, ilu and glad that you exist, each of you a body

i would like to be more positive about my body

honestly i would like to learn how to be more consciously integrated ~into~ my body, become comfortable with actually just ~being~ a body, instead of having this concept of my body as a mind-vehicle

cartesian dualism is stupid and dumb

!!!! I have almost posted something similar about six times already!

I feel more like I am just a body, sometimes. With its flaws, which I seem to obsess over one at a time in a neurotic fashion. Maybe quirks is a better word.

the purpose of my brain is to obsessively fixate on how my glasses are out of place and attempt to adjust them every 20 seconds for three hours, or to sit up a little too rigidly because I've decided my posture is bad

one of the things that makes dualism happen is when there is a "you" that wants to do something and "your" body is complaining/refusing/being a dick about it

Brains have multitudes of quirks and flaws, too. They just don't show up in photographs, so you have to look harder to see them. xp

!mind positivity~

yeah i mean, for me it's hard to be aware of my body & how it ~feels~ in the moment without engaging in some sort of critical self-talk about it, i'm sure other people have mentioned this itt but i haven't had a chance to read it through

i've been trying to engage in some mindfulness meditation and that has been somewhat helpful in being able to identify and disengage from those types of thoughts as they happen but it's certainly a struggle

I was at the beach feeling p good about my nice, functional body and its pleasing lines (from what I could see) and how good it felt, and then later I saw a photo and was unpleasantly surprised--it didn't feel like I was a sea lion wearing an innertube around its midsection. Still, at least I got to have the day all to myself to feel good.

I guess it's a just a series of those moments, allowing yourself to forget to think about it, and then being reminded later, but already having had the positive experience. Maybe one key element is not stopping yourself from having the next one.

i was at a bbq on sunday and this gay was talking about how he likes to go to provincetown during Bear Week because "it makes him feel skinny" and i legit wanted to slap his face

Would you say you positively wanted to slap his face?

maybe he meant it in an erotic way, like he feels tiny with a few bears sitting on him

guess I should own up to being the guy behind the "healthy hot fatties" quote mentioned at the top of this thread. It was horribly worded, I was drunk a the time and trying v hard to be privilege acknowledging guy, my point that I was trying to make was that obv it's bullshit to be judging ppl on perceived "healthiness" and "fuckability" but that sizeism is clearly unfair EVEN ON THOSE TERMS. It was a dumb thing to say tho cause complaining about "unfairness" posits a "fair" way to shame ppl for their bodies.

I was also feeling maudlin and wanted an excuse to whinge about my own feelings about my body (which don't belong on this thread) and I'm sorry if I upset anybody.

You aces, wins.

By which I meant "You're aces."

thx carl, really. I was bummed to be singled out on ~this thread~ as a ~that thread~ guy and then I went back and reread what I wrote :-\

...i was thinking about how we appraise ourselves and it's tied into the way we appraise others isn't it? i feel like it is for me, or like i'm not thinking "do i like the way i look?" but "will other people like the way i look?"

― the SI unit of ignorance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 7:12 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think if other people weren't in the equation i wd be 100 percent contented with me on the surface, just the aches and pains i can do without

― the SI unit of ignorance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 7:13 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...maybe it's a gendered experience? do women learn to appraise themselves differently to men on the whole do you think?

― the SI unit of ignorance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 7:14 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when we imagine that others are evaluating and harshly judging our appearance, we're probably just projecting our own self-judgment onto an imaginary surrogate. it's displaced anxiety or even self-loathing.

of course we all do judge one another, at least from time to time, and it's only sensible to be aware of that. i'm talking about a sustained preoccupation with the idea that one is being measured and found wanting, especially when there isn't much real evidence that this is the case. i do it, and i'm a guy, but i've known lots of similarly afflicted women.

Trayce, feeling you on the face-sagging fears.

One thing that is pretty fucked-up: I hate my features that I think scan as Appalachian/poor white trash (which is my background on both sides of my family). I tend to have petty, contemptuous thoughts about other women who look like that, too. It's especially dumb considering that I am very much in favor of women of other ethnicities/ethnic backgrounds cultivating pride in features that do not fit the mainstream beauty standards.

In KIP news on this thread, I have just met a guy online who thinks I am incredibly hot and cute, so thats absolutely cheered me up. Not that I need verification from others to feel good, but hey! I'm 42 and I apparently still got it.

I am constantly mistaken for someone about 25, which bugs me a lot, because in my mind I am a hardboiled dame. And also these bozos at work think we're the same age and I want to shout: NO, I AM YOUR SUPERIOR IN MIDDLE MANAGEMENT, FEAR ME!!!

^^Better if hissed through gritted teeth.

had a little moment when i realized something: i may never have to worry about showing too much (any) cleavage, but i have a decent looking clavicle.

Haha! That's cute, and I would agree.

Nice clavage

:D

haha
why thank u

I wore a very tight pencil skirt today without hosiery, shapewear, or anything tummy flattening, and at least seven people have looked me up and down with confusion or scorn today.

jealousy imo

NATURALLY

A+++++

HOT!

Just tried picturing LL in my mind and I mostly get smiles and clavages tbh. The time we met in person we both remarked how easily we identified each other by picture. Draw your own conclusions.

tbf most of my pictures show my resting bitchface

i am having a hell of a hard time with this today and it's not even 10am

This is a good goal, and tough, so I am glad this thread exists. It's been a good read and there are so many sharp, caring comments ITT from sharp, caring people.

Over the past month I have done a lot of traveling/reconnecting with people – I've seen a lot of major and minor players from the past eight years of my life (and a lot of extended family who I hadn't seen in years). I've had a lot of slow, gradual weight fluctuations as an adult, and I appreciated that a lot of people did NOT see me through that lens of 'hey you used to have different dimensions in either direction' but some other thing they knew about me. 'So how's being a teacher?' 'I saw you drew a million cartoons.' I weighed a lot more in grad school but almost none of the peeps from grad school I caught up with cared about that, we wanted to talk about each others' brains/hearts/lives. I think that is what helps me the most – treating weight like it is as insignificant and as impolite to talk about as a birthmark. And, of course, the privilege of being around others who think/talk that way. Too much propinquity to people talking about weight, calories, etc., and I do get the crazy eyes. I had to start eating lunch by myself at work because that was ALL anyone wanted to talk about.

I think that is what helps me the most – treating weight like it is as insignificant and as impolite to talk about as a birthmark. And, of course, the privilege of being around others who think/talk that way.

whenever i catch up w the women in my immediate family, they always start out with "you look great! you've lost weight." even if i haven't. if i too obviously haven't, it's just the "you look great!" part. it's all complimentary, but i cringe internally without quite knowing why. esp when they go on about how the ladies are sure to be impressed. i've never thought there might be anything odd about any of it, but the fam does have a track record of eating disorders, harsh shaming, body dysmorphia, etc.

agree w crabbits that it'd be nice if body & weight weren't always the primary focus.

Hi, elmo! You're the styliest and best. Go forth and be majestic today.

aw <3 thanks L

I think it's also good to remember that it's ok to feel like shit sometimes, but the important thing (for me at least) is to realize that my brain is actively working against me at those times and it's ok to look in the mirror and be like "dang, girl - lookin rough" but not "hey look it's a worthless piece of shit". yknow?

today? i'm tired and my skin looks terrible. oh well! good thing i don't have to look at myself all day huh.

i have trouble delineating between thoughts of

"i should get more activity because i'm the inheritor of a bunch of shitty genetics that predispose me to heart disease"

and

"i should exercise more because i feel like a disgusting slob who can't fit into pants"

"get more activity" is a better framing device than "exercise more" i think

i do think it's important to be mindful of the first without falling prey to the emotional pitfall of the second but it's not always easy because of the internalized cultural associations between being thin and being healthy

Being physically active really helps me with body image issues because it helps my mood a lot, and the first thing that happens when I get a little depressed is the shitty negative self-talk starts. So there's a voice in my head that loves whispering that I am a disgusting slob who can't fit into pants (or whatever it happens to be that day) and being active makes me feel better and helps shut up that dumb voice, or at least gives me a little more resistance to it.

I also like to be active because I love the smug satisfaction of have good high blood pressure when I go to the doctor.

wait "having good high blood pressure" makes no sense. Having good blood pressure, I think I meant to say.

It's also fun to move from one place to another using energy you have stored up in your body. I frame exercise as a mental health activity almost exclusively and it has really helped me not resent it.

I do, too, actually, largely because I get immediate mental health benefits from exercise, whereas if I were to frame it as a weight loss activity, I'd give up after two months because nothing would happen.

I know a lot of people for whom the whole magic of the human body and its capabilities is a good motivator. That one doesn't really do it for me, probably because I have spent so much of my life viewing my body as a separate and hostile entity and that's really hard to get over.

Abbs, i think the realization that people who are worth their salt mostly view you in terms of what you do rather than how you look has been part of what helped me with this stuff, too. also realizing that that's what i value in other people, including people who spend a lot of energy hating their bodies. like my mother.

i mean, i am vain, so recognizing the beauty in different bodies still helps me, but at the end of the day, i think it doesn't matter so much. i am the sappiest of saps, so now i will repost this story about my mom which Abbs's post reminded me of:

omg as long as i'm oversharing, i'll give a specific example. my mother is a very beautiful woman and i think not coincidentally really in the bell jar about this stuff. a couple years ago she was really really bad with the never stopping talking about how disgustingly fat she was (she's not but it doesn't really matter). just horrible things she would say about herself. anyway, we were having a picnic oen day and she found out an older woman she knew had been left alone for the weekend by her family. and my mom just flew into action, picked the woman up, brought us home, whipped up a ten-course meal and entertained her friend in an incredibly graceful way. i was sort of in awe and i remember thinking, this is what everyone loves about you, how capable and generous you are, not how effing small you are! it seemed like a tragedy she couldn't see herself that way.

― horseshoe, Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:04 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ describes my mom to a T

beautiful, enormously caring and committed, mercilessly hard on herself about everything, especially weight

whenever i catch up w the women in my immediate family, they always start out with "you look great! you've lost weight." even if i haven't.

yes. this is so annoying. especially since the reason I've lost weight is usually because I've been sick. they will also tell me "you look like you've been eating well!" if I've gained weight. both the men & women in my family do it. it makes me irrationally angry and makes me want to become invisible!

that's not irrational anger imo

my parents don't really talk about weight though, which is nice. it's my grandparents + aunts + uncles that do it.

my grandfather is utterly clueless about how much of a dick he is to people and actually said to my mom once, years ago, "Mary, have you put on weight?" when he saw her

both the men & women in my family do it.

yeah, i regret not having made that clear. men do it too, though less often.

"you look... healthy"

It's so much easier and nicer to tell the truth, ie "It makes me so happy to see you, you look beautiful to me!" when they meet. But maybe that's too truthy and then what are you supposed to say when you actually DON'T like the person and aren't happy to see them?

I always know when my dad is secretly commenting on the fact that I've gained weight when he asks if I've been working out.

if I were to frame it as a weight loss activity, I'd give up after two months because nothing would happen.

exercising never really changes your weight much anyway, does it? i've been working out pretty hardcore for like a year now and i weigh exactly the same as when i started. but it makes me feel great. quitting smoking helped too. hard to feel positive about your body when you're actively poisoning it! anyway, i agree w/everyone here; exercising makes me feel REALLY GOOD. i'm like, more talkative. i'm FUNNIER. god whatta bore that is but it's true.

I get the "you look like you've been eating well!" every time I go home too, presumably because until a few years ago I didn't eat much and was really really thin and now that's somewhat less the case. Though back then I'd often have girls tell me that they were jealous of how thin I was. m8! I'm underweight and really weak and and tired all the time and stuff! This isn't a good thing!

exercising never really changes your weight much anyway, does it? i've been working out pretty hardcore for like a year now and i weigh exactly the same as when i started.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, July 12, 2013 9:09 AM (10 minutes ago)

probably depends on the exercise and your metabolism. years ago, i was unhealthily obsessed with rapid weight loss and was SUPER precise about my daily calorie intake and (assumed) expenditure. found that, for me, the system worked exactly as described. if i undercut my expenditure by 1000 cal per day, i'd lose 2 lbs a week like clockwork. if i added 500 cal worth of exercise/day, i'd lose 3. you know, over the long haul, discounting slight short-term fluctuations.

i would like to stretch more. stretching feels good.

people don't think of stretching as exercise but i think anything that increases blood flow to understimulated body parts has got to count for something

It can be bueno for integrating w your body, too.

if i undercut my expenditure by 1000 cal per day, i'd lose 2 lbs a week like clockwork

you're not talking about exercise here, you're talking about undereating

this isn't really the thread for this, though

It can be bueno for integrating w your body, too

yeah. i never stretched before this year and i can't believe i never did before. it feels awesome. you know what is great is HIP FLEXIBILITY. like WHOAH!

all that said, i know people who absolutely hate exercise, like the thought of the gym practically gives them panic attacks and it's like you know.. if it don't feel good, don't do it. why stress about it??

This thinking of movement as getting more activity is something I need to try. Who doesn't want to do something that's for themselves? I especially like walking back from the lab to home to put distance between me and the lab, so why don't I ever do it? Because I think I ought to for exercise reasons, that's why.

Exercise alone rarely changes you weight. Even the most intense exercise isn't going to burn that many calories, calories that you can replace in like 5 minutes of eating. If I run long on the weekend, say 16 miles in about 2 hours, I'm only going to burn around 1800-2000 calories (very rough estimate). I will more than replace that with the muffaletta and four beers I eat/drink afterwards (because I'm ravenously hungry).

Exercise is great for some many things though, mental and physical. Even moderate activity. So do it anyway.

i do think a lot of people get locked into this idea that 'going to the gym' or developing some efficiency-optimized exercise routine is the only way to engage in healthy activity

DDR is the one exercise activity I enjoy. No joke, it's perfect - 2-minute bursts of fairly intense jumping around (at expert level) + competitive element (against myself) to keep going + pop music + Jpop + I can put it on when I want and don't need to work around other ppl.

my grandfather is utterly clueless about how much of a dick he is to people and actually said to my mom once, years ago, "Mary, have you put on weight?" when he saw her

DDR is for reals the best activity in the world unless you hate being told what to do by a computer (even though you're choosing to accept the instructions).

I just put on music and dance but then I wake up the next day with a sore everything

heeeeey
you gotta dance every day

otm

La Lechera can i just say that your compliments on my hands (!) have had a deep and abiding resonance in me, like for real. it's like a well of good vibes i can draw upon again and again. thank you!

i do think a lot of people get locked into this idea that 'going to the gym' or developing some efficiency-optimized exercise routine is the only way to engage in healthy activity

― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Friday, July 12, 2013 5:08 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Totally, and especially if anyone has participated in Weight Watchers where you get "activity points" in exchange for exercise that you can trade in for a little bit more to eat on any given day. Weight Watchers is evil.

Оh man, I'd forgotten about that. I never traded it in, I just ate the minimum and didn't exercise...

I do, too, actually, largely because I get immediate mental health benefits from exercise, whereas if I were to frame it as a weight loss activity, I'd give up after two months because nothing would happen.

I know a lot of people for whom the whole magic of the human body and its capabilities is a good motivator. That one doesn't really do it for me, probably because I have spent so much of my life viewing my body as a separate and hostile entity and that's really hard to get over.

― carl agatha, Friday, 12 July 2013 14:33 (3 hours ago)

OK me too to the abandoned weight loss exercise routines (except I give up after like 3 days because it hurts and I already "know" I won't lose any weight) and the body as separate and hostile entity, so yeah, I think the exercise-for-mental-health is a better mindset which I hope to get into. Thanks, thread!

(But not tonight. Tonight is sitting on the sofa with sugary alcoholic drinks night. All day tomorrow probably is too. And, hey, why not Sunday? And...)

My phys therapist gave me simple exercises to do to regain strength and some days I don't even do them because they feel like a burden! That's nuts! I'll bike and swim and dance and PAY for the pleasure of those things before I'll do 20 leg lifts in my own home for free. Shit. Do something you just like.

seriously fuck weight watchers

La Lechera can i just say that your compliments on my hands (!) have had a deep and abiding resonance in me, like for real. it's like a well of good vibes i can draw upon again and again. thank you!

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, July 12, 2013 1:48 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

aw!

i am feeling better about my body since this morning, thanks ppl

i am a big handsome bear of a man with cool hair and a pretty face and big strong legs and my body is cool so HA

hollaaaaa

my slight gut reflects my love of food and drink and life and my otherwise thin frame reflects my disinterest in fitness for its own sake and love of being me

despite really needing a haircut my hair looks cool today

seriously fuck weight watchers

― horseshoe, Friday, July 12, 2013 7:12 PM (5 minutes ago)

^^^ cosign
A relative did WW just over 30 years ago and it was some toxic shit even back then - said relative would be almost passing out because of not eating enough, but the instructor/leader would still be exhorting everyone to eat less.

oh yeah, i'm also tall! i forget that sometimes. being tall is way cool.

you're not talking about exercise here, you're talking about undereating

exercise doesn't help you lose weight?

elmo you are a very very good looking dude--megababe. i've always thought so.

exercising has never made me lose weight, either - unless I am drastically calorie cutting. However, having better balance, strength and flexibility feels pretty cool. Those things are more important to me.

Tracer, you have my word that you have some of the best looking hands I have ever seen. I'm glad to have been of service.

for the vast majority of my life i've hated my body. i always felt too skinny. in high school i used to pound back those "weight gain" shakes that wreaked havoc on my digestive system. never gained a pound. i was on the football team and of course everyone wanted to be as "big" as possible i guess i internalized that.

only recently have I gotten around that negativity directed at my own appearance, but by re-directing it towards fitness. i set fitness goals (this many pull-ups, this much weight on bench press, etc) and im pretty hard on myself but at the same time i let my body take care of itself. im not sure that's *healthier* in an emotional sense but taking that anxiety and directing it toward something that is in general a positive experience for me (working out) has allowed me to feel a lot better about myself.

the problem that most people seem to have with exercise is 1) overeating when they do and 2) overestimating the number of calories burned. cals in/cals out seems pretty sound though it's a miserable equation - we've all seen those "you have to jog for 80 minutes to burn off that milkshake" posters

frogs your in the wrong thread

you're

you should go, really

elmo, I know this thread is about having love for ALL HUMAN BODIES, but I will say, you in particular are a handsome devil. Dashing, even. I hope you feel like that today!

yeah ok i won't ruin this thread about acceptance with that kind of talk

Also I have enjoyed reading people itt saying positive things about themselves. It's easy/fun for me to say positive things about other people because I like to tell people what I think is beautiful about them, but not at all easy to say nice stuff about myself.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that. It's a good exercise to have to say nice things about myself in writing in public.

i... oh, goodness... i think i actually blushed. thank you! xp

to io & h2

I have a new haircut, I'm wearing my new Repo Man tshirt, I found a product that has helped correct my rosacea so I can go out in the world sans lobsterface, and I generally feel pretty unstoppable today

btw i'm pretty sure i had something to contribute here but fuck it

frogs you can contribute, just don't try to explain how exercise works maybe?

what's the product, vege? i am generally more or less alright with myself besides rosacea lobsterface and bumpiness.

well well nice to have your permission sir

oh jeez really

:-(

froggy negativity

you are all pretty great-looking people imo

I often notice hands and noses on people... I think one of the most surprising compliments I got was in highschool a very eccentric girl who sat behind me in english class told me that I had the most interesting nose of anyone in the class.

xxpost Merdey this is what I use - http://www.sephora.com/cc-cream-broad-spectrum-spf-30-complexion-corrector-P378194 - kinda spendy but I've been wearing it now for a week plus, no breakouts, no bumps, no scratching, no nothing. And no lobsterface :)

thx, i'll see if i can find a tiny sample pack or something to give it a go. and then i will be PERFECT #bodypositivity!!

sephora are usually pretty good about giving samples, if you are able to go there

lol i only met elmo once a few years ago but when i saw i am having a hell of a hard time with this today i was like hush u handsome devil

nice

thanks, y'all, you are all very nice people for real and i'm v grateful for the outside perspective on my body

as i today got an accidental severe haircut (i asked for a couple of inches off of my ridiculous mop, barber jumped on in with the clippers, okay then we'll see where this goes) i've decided that later this month (when i have no social engagements for a while so can potentially hide) i'm going to shave for the first time in ooooh nine years, see if i can escape the 'look' that i know is in part just a way of hiding from whatever's underneath it. WISH ME LUCK.

OKAY FINE DON'T WISH ME LUCK I'LL JUST BECOME COUSIN ITT.

Come on, don't be silly, I support all facial hair eradication, I was just busy for a second there, it won't happen again.

Discover the Merdeyeux under the mask!

tbf my shit eyes are quite useful even if i do need a large pane of glass in front of them for them to function.

I am curious gl merdey

Elmo you are the guy we have compared to dicaprio on a good day crossed with some other hunk actor in a prev thread iirc

It is 30 degrees plus in dublin and i have a p sweet tan, bonus points for sheer novelty and extra bonus points for being able to wear shorts and show off my 300-worthy calves

hope it works better for you than it did for me when i had a job that made me shave. my self-confidence went from about 50% to 0% in one shave. can't believe i had that job for a year and a half.

if it doesn't look like you want there's no shame in just being a dude who looks good in a beard! body hair has "body" in it so i'm p sure you can't be forced to look at it like just an adornment

If he doesn't try he'll never know! A wise move. Beards grow back fast iirc.

ya i am confident in my ability to grow it back quickly if the horrors behind it are too much. also i am LITERALLY DEFORMED (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Robin_syndrome) (but in a quite minor way) so if anyone calls me out on how ridiculous i look beardless then i can make them feel very guilty.

Harsh but fair

this is a lovely thread!

here is an example of my personal brand of body positivity since i am trying to waste time before going out:

i'm tired as hell, this is my third night in a row going out and i'm pooped but i still want to go out. in order to distract people from my tired tired eyes, i'm wearing a green, pink and white polyester maxi dress that may or may not be a maternity dress but i have no idea because i got it at a garage sale. it belonged to the seller's mom when she lived in the philippines . and you know what, someone wants to look at me funny because i'm fucking TIRED or have a zit/zits or am wearing a shoulder-to-ankle polyester green dress can trip headfirst into a mud puddle. don't disrespect that person's filipina mom or her dress or me that way, jerk.

like seriously, giving a fuck whether other people approve of my appearance is the biggest waste of time on earth, a bigger waste of time than posting this message.

^^^ totally why I love you, even though we have never met irl

http://i.imgur.com/EAQK8VG.gif

Oh man I used to love reading Red Meat

No one laughed at me, but a kid did accidentally scream in my face (the second night in a row, what's up with that).

I find masturbation to be good for self-image.

Guys I am feelin' good about my old meatcase...I got a gorgeous and zippy city bike recently (with my merit pay check that I am morally opposed to but oh $$$ hey it's cycling time). I am so slow at learning any physical skill that I feel most comfortable just being an autodidact, and riding a bike was no different. I figured out how to balance by rolling down a hill on my family's ostrich farm. There were fights nearly every night at my house and riding a bike was a great excuse to leave, and a great way to burn off the energy of being pissed at everyone you love.

Riding my bike makes me feel good about my body not because of weight or anything (p sure nothing's changed; I don't weigh myself), but other more legit reasons. I am WAY less out of breath at the stupidest things. I didn't realize what little used to knock it out of me. This has really improved how much stamina & c. I have for my other favorite physical activity (hur, hur), which is delightful. I like that it is an introvert going ham at my own rate thing. I keep getting better at it, which is satisfying. I can look at my legs and not think [x mean thing about my legs] but instead 'these shits helped me move 22 miles this morning.' Also I like rocking the dorky skintight gear. I didn't know cycling shorts have this bizarre Gigeresque padding in the middle for soaking up vag sweat. I made some confused guy on the cycling path take a picture of me next to my bike in front of the weird mudcracked Rillito Wash, holding my gut between my hands and making a goofy face. I sent it to my mom, who I knew could be counted on still to say some nice supportive mom thing. "love the pictures, you look hot, and athletic." I grew up in a family where the rule was "no athletes," basically, so I enjoyed fishing for compliments there. Good times all around.

I can't even begin to start with all of the things I love about that, so I'll just say I love all of it :D

Somebody buy me this shirt: http://www.redressnyc.com/im-fat-lets-party-tee-by-seibei/

I have that shirt.

The other week I saw one of our local characters, a rotund, older gentleman, wearing a tight crew neck undershirt with "I'm too fat for this shirt" written in sharpie.

As per popular request...It is a terrible photo b/c I have shaky hands. I don't even feel right claiming "fat," since I'm pretty average, but I still feel like I'm big enough for a "should NOT be wearing that" http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a551/emily_simpson1/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/467754_10151426266347120_887921042_o.jpg

that is a rad bathing suit and you are gorgeous fyi

<3 Thanks! This bathing suit is 100% funtimes.

I'm coveting it pretty hardcore, tbh

They might still have it. It is pretty cheap-o quality. Monif C has some in this style for more $$

EMILYS, HAWT.

If I liked girls, this is the part where I wd knock u over the head (w yr consent) and carry u to my cave.

^^^

you look awesome and that suit is beautiful

hi emilys.

You look pretty bombshell & gorgeous to me! Great suit and body!!

goddamn I would love to have that suit for myself! sorry if this is creepy but your chest looks SO FAB!

Dawwwwwww thank you, sweet hearts! Just so you know, according to my bmi, I am obese. I think I am pretty avg by american woman size (12-16 ish), but I have had to come to grips with it after being pretty thin all my adolescence/young adulthood. Thing is, I know I will probably get heavier & I'm ok with that. Point is I am enjoying my body and life more than ever.

Ps. I have ALWAYS had issues with my gut at all weights, so this suit style coming back is seriously awesome

BABETASTIC <3 <3 <3

Cosign

I did a BMI calculation yesterday after discovering I weigh 96 kilos and it had me at 30.0 which is officially obese, albeit the lowest obese number

it's obviously a load of specious bullshit though. maybe I need to tone a bit but I'm a thick-set cricket-playin' Cypriot and I feel *fab*, even if my darling beloved would like me to amend the paunch

Squeeeeel!

I already felt good because I have been swimming at this adorable public lake where there are all kinds of people of different age groups and ethnicities p much having fun and not giving a fuck about their bodies & still having fun/having lovers flirt with them and splash around in the water etc, but now I feel even better :D

Thick-set Cypriot is sounding super-hot right now

Ps. Writing on phone/drunk

:D

The way I see it: judge me not on my ambient qualities but on my works. That way, the ambient qualities provide momentary sustenance without defining one's protracted existence

is this lake in/around Athens? I am wondering if I have seen it before. I haven't been to Athens in over a year which is weird since I am like an hour away!

also: what everyone else said, u r v pretty

"should NOT be wearing that"

lady that suit was MADE to be worn by you!
Such a good feeling when you find a swimsuit (or anything really) that looks so good on. (There are SO MANY weird swimsuits out there)

Yep, the lake is at Sandy Creek park, off 441. You would never see it unless you went looking for it. Xpost

That is a great suit. The swimsuit unicorn I'm currently hunting is a chlorine resistant suit with athletic-level coverage and support for my boobs but that also fits everywhere else, too. Usually if it fits my boobs, it's too big everywhere else. My suit now has hilarious saggy butt.

For just looking fly I really love this suit - http://monifc.com/plus-size-swimwear/sao-paulo-high-waisted-plus-size-bikini-top-underwire-turquoise-multi.html - but using my neck to hold the weight of my boobs is just asking for pain and suffering, even if I'm just lounging by the lake. Also just the top lane is $95!!!!! Highway robbery.

Unrelated t swimsuits, This is interesting and OTM IMO - http://goo.gl/YWtfO

sigh

Top ALONE not top lane

And sorry for the short link. That's just how it copied; I'm not Rick rolling anybody. It's about the insidiousness of anti-obesity nonprofits.

I'm always looking for a maillot with cutouts on the sides and/or back but enough butt coverage that I can scoop my ass into it and not have things hanging out. In a good color. That's my unicorn.

i'm waiting for the return of striped bodysuits, to be worn with a straw boater while lifting cartoon barbells

http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/store/002393.php

Barbells not included!

could be the first time i've encountered the word 'maillot' since the sports illustrated swimsuit issue at age 12

As a dude with stretch marks on his stomach, that old school bathing suit is almost tempting. But nevermind that, this thread has made me think about this issue a bit again, and how little that stuff matters, so I went to the beach a week ago and it was pretty damn great. Yesterday, after running a few km in much too hot sun, I realized I had to take off my shirt. I got damn self-conscious about it, but I'm proud to say that I did it anyways. And it felt fantastic. Thanks body-positivity-ilx0rs!

Good for you Øystein. I was reluctantly forced to frequent public swimming baths and water-parks about 5 years ago, because water is my son's number 1 essential activity. At first I was very self conscious, panicky and uncomfortable and I am glad I got past all that bullshit. Life is too short to deny yourself the pleasure of beaches and swimming pools, whatever shape you are.

Body positivity: http://gothamist.com/2013/07/22/small_penis_interview_winner.php

i just heard this and IMMEDIATELY thought of this thread.

Lady Lykez - "I Love My Butt"
https://soundcloud.com/ladylykez/love-my-butt/s-1FYgY

i have always struggled with accepting the fact that i naturally have dark circles under my eyes pretty much all the time

i have always had unsolicited comments from people, whether i've known them or not, remarking that i look tired -- even when i was well rested

it's not a function of sleep or diet as far as I can tell, it's just my face

so i wonder if i can learn to think about them that is accepting, and positive, and gentle.

you got to cultivate that shit. dark eyes look mysterious

unsolicited comments from people, whether i've known them or not, remarking that i look tired

there are people who say this, it is crazy. why would anyone say this, ever??

haha i know, it's ridiculously rude

"you look tired" is something i've learned NEVER to say to girls

trial and error, i guess

it's one of those things that people say out of genuine concern, like, "everything ok?" but 100% of the time it is processed as "you look REALLY ROUGH i.e. UGLY" so you should basically never say it to anyone

I think it's good to look tired though. We're all weary of the world, right? I'm suspicious of people who have energy.

it's bad enough when you're ACTUALLY sleep-deprived and feeling rough, having someone remind you of that is not good to begin with

but when naturally have dark coloration under your eyes, it's worse. i'm not tired, that just my FACE thanks very much

and anyway, i'm tired of feeling insecure about it so i'm making an executive decision to accept that this is just how i look and to love it. i already know i look damn good and anyone who thinks otherwise wouldn't know handsome if it bit them in the ass.

^ otm

Toss that mane and keep doing you, boo.

i'm biting ass & taking names

that's my elmo

i am currently trying to be ok with the fact that my farmer's tan is so pronounced that i look like i'm wearing an executioner's hood of dirt on my face/neck/chest at all times. it's nagl but there's literally nothing i can do about it. i wear 50+ sunscreen on these parts every single time i leave the house and it's totally making me break out, but i can't not do that or i'll get burnt to a crisp.

still, the only thing to do is own it. that is truly the ONLY solution to "i don't like this aspect of my appearance".

You could wear a big straw hat. I feel like this is the kind of accessory you might already have three of.

I'm slowly getting rid of my farmers tan. Unfortunately I now have a singlet tan.

Speaking of people commenting on appearance, at least twice a week people ask have I been out in the sun a lot because I'm tan. It's really annoying. I'm out in the sun 7 to 9 hours a week running, it's not like I'm going on a tropical vacation every weekend and getting a fabulous tan. It's not something I desired, it's just the outcome of my normal activities.

Also parasols are awesome! I am so sun-avoidant I walk around like a meandering drunk trying to stay in any available shade at all times and all my friends make fun of me but I was designed for Scotland levels of sunlight, not Central Texas.

http://www.tulahats.com/v/vspfiles/images/homeslide5.jpg

Then I have to navigate the world in a big straw hat and also never forget my hat and that just seems like a ridiculous thing to have to cart around/deal with. I sometimes wear scarves on my head but that's as far as it goes with headgear.

This is kinda cute but let's be honest
http://img0109.popscreencdn.com/160018490_alexanders-costume-53-064-puritanpilgrim-bonnet-hat-toys.jpg

i do have a parasol but again, dedicating a hand to it is a thing of leisure, not every utility.

everyDAY utility

at least twice a week people ask have I been out in the sun a lot because I'm tan. It's really annoying.

Come on now, they're making conversation and also probably feel like they're giving you a compliment!

Yeah I would like to wear hats more but I can't see to cross the street in them, they really do limit your access to the world around you as compared to going bare-headed. Maybe one with a high and stiff brim that doesn't droop around the sides, I don't know.

umbrella hat

now you're talkin

from upthread, before I forget, I second or third the notion that you should never, ever tell people they look tired. or hungover, which is even worse! it's so awful to hear that in the morning after you've gotten your shit together and actually managed to eat a healthy dinner and get a good night's sleep, and woken up with enough time to get ready instead of immediately biking to the office wearing whatever you slept in.

also, if it makes you feel better LaLe, look at her pixelated farmer's tan.

This one is foldable/packable, if that matters.

http://images.villagehatshop.com/media/images/viewer/JeaneSimmonsTweedSwinger/medium_JeaneSimmonsTweedSwinger4.jpg

nice try, but no

i meant the hat -- too formal, the hat wears you

Haha okay. Good wishes on loving your gardener's tan!

Come on now, they're making conversation and also probably feel like they're giving you a compliment!

Sure, but you don't have to point it out all the time. Usually it comes from the same people, multiple times. Also, sure I look decent with a tan, but did I look like crap when I was pasty white in winter?

I'm just the type of person that believes that small talk, especially at work, should not include discussion about someone's personal appearance, their clothing choices, or what they are eating. Just talk about the weather or something.

"I'm really liking your boobs today, they look great!"

"Is that a new earring?"

"Your right shoe looks a little scuffed, is everything OK?"

GET THE FUCK OUTTA MY FACE

Hah, man, the "you look tired thing." I started getting that when I ditched glasses for contacts. "Uh, yeah, no, this is what I look like."

Apropos small talk at work... We have a new boss who apparently hasn't quite learned who's who; a few days ago he mistook a woman at work for the one who's pregnant and made some cutesy comment about how she was developing the waggly third trimester walk. Way to go, boss!

facepalm

farmer's tan 4 lyfe

I have actually had a coworker compliment my boobs before.

did he give you an award for "great chicago boobs" and was it dave chapelle with a comedy mustache?

lol

I have a question about the purpose of this thread; can we talk about weird plastic surgery things here or is that outside the thread's remit? Ned posted a New York Times article on Facebook that I've been dying to talk about but I am wary of starting a new thread (I can't find any current discussion about it at the moment) and I don't want to post it here if it's not the type of thing people want to use this thread to discuss. Actually my opinion of the article is not particularly body-positive for the people choosing to have this surgery so maybe I should just start a thread.

i think u answered yr question there

I feel like that would be on the verge of the dreaded "body snarking" and maybe not be appropriate here, but that's just me and I would happily defer to others if they see it differently.

yeah I answered my own question

it's an amazing article though

I think gut-to-butt surgery deserves its own thread on its own merits

punk to funk

My skin colour options are white or red. I don't stand out that much when I'm in Ireland or the UK but last week I was in New York and felt kinda negative among all the beautiful non-pasty people.

I feel the same way up at the IFSC

ah yeah but why would you go there in the first place

Handy for meeting herself off the luas innit

the things we do for love

LUAS woman

i have always struggled with accepting the fact that i naturally have dark circles under my eyes pretty much all the time

i have always had unsolicited comments from people, whether i've known them or not, remarking that i look tired -- even when i was well rested

it's not a function of sleep or diet as far as I can tell, it's just my face

― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:51 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Elmo totally feeling you on this. I have deep set eyes and naturally dark circles which combined can be really dark. I've gotten the tired comments often and a roommate once saw me upon waking up and was like "OMG what happened to your eye?!". She thought I had a black eye but really I just didn't have any concealer on. It bugs the shit out of me but I've learned to be more accepting of it over time. They're here and they're not going anywhere. Also, it's helpful to remember that not everyone notices these things and because you're sensitive about it you probably notice them more. I remember saying something once to my best friend about them and she was baffled because she'd legit just never noticed them. Finally, yeah never ask people if they're tired or pregnant imo. It never ends well.

I have deep set eyes and naturally dark circles which combined can be really dark

This didn't come out right. I got 4 hrs of sleep. I bet my eyes look really awesome today.

I would like to talk about how shitty non-standardized sizing can make women feel and how dumb it is that it can do this because I know logically that the number on a tag doesn't mean shit but still it sucks.

I have dark circles too. My mom has them and I think maybe it's hereditary, but my lack of sleep due to children/awkward working hours maybe doesn't help. Then again, my mom was an insomniac when I was young too. So maybe it's just a coincidence and we've both just killed the shit out of our eye sockets via middle-age.

xp Yeah I went into a charity shop yesterday and saw a top on the rack, just the top part visible but in a nice colour and pattern and with a label saying XL just visible, thought I had won at life finding such a top in extra-large... held it up and it was clearly like half my width which I was suddenly feeling even worse than usual about

y'know what's weird is that I actually do have the dark circle under the left eye but not the right. luckily you only really notice it under certain kinds of lighting and many people I've known for a long time never spotted it, but sometimes it really DOES look like I have a black eye. so what can you do about that?

oh I conceal the shit out of mine

maybe a lil man make-up?

or just embrace it as mysterious and sultry

im perfect

hello, perfect

well some people I've known for several years asked me about it and then said matter-of-factly "I never noticed it before today" - so I kinda stopped caring about it

I have thick linear patches of hair above my elbows. I've embraced them and now call them my "elbrows"

nice!

elbrows! :D

That reminds me of my mom, who came up with "knee goatee" (the part of her knee that's easy to miss while shaving) and a "toe 'fro" (we just have hobbitty front toes in my fams).

touch of the hobbitoes over here; an old girlfriend told me "you have muffs on your toes"

It's better than having toes in your muff, I guess.

I mean, unless that's what you're into.

vagina dentoeta

post-pedicure imo

that's what I call a toe jam

you guys

I think we're done now

I have dark eye circles too! in that bit next to the nose. I have to use touche eclat not concealer. My o/h has them too.
Someone once tried to convince me I'd smudged eyeshadow all over that bit, I was like no that's just my skin ;_;

touche eclat! you fancy huh?

Another one here with the dark (and puffy) under eyes. But glasses pretty much disguise them.

I used to use touche eclat too and buy it whenever I flew because I was cheaper but it's not enough coverage anymore. :( I have found a couple really good concealers though (It Costetics, Tarte and Amazing Costmetics just FYI) but I might get Touche Eclat again and try both together. Yes, I have given these fucking things way too much thought.

it doesn't really cover it (I got a pack of two at the airport as well, ha) but if I use thick concealer it looks even odder and kind of plasticky.

Yeah, there is that danger. All of those are p thick so you have to apply just the tiniest amount.

This is not really helpful but fwiw I find dark areas around eyes (and little bags under eyes) v attractive.

Eye bags: cute!http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a551/emily_simpson1/holly_zps43f2701d.jpg

while we're at it, i think hobbity feet are really appealing

who's that?

Someone with adorable eye bags!

that's holly golightly!

I have dark circles (have been asked if I have a black eye more than once) & hobbit feet! Someone recently complimented the latter, which was quite surprising. They are wide and squatty & my toes look like fat grubs. I shave the tops of my feet/toes.

One time I ran into this toned trapeze yoga bitch at the co-op & she was all "oh! You don't look well!" I think what I hated about it more than her saying I looked like shit was the condescension, like I'm some baby who can't take care of myself & I need her fucking vedic tips or whatever.

Lol @ toned yoga bitch

What a shithead.

emilys. you are a treat

...and then she told you all about her amazing kombucha enemas

I have hobbity feet and never wear sandals as a result despite the fact that my "look" is basically "looking like jesus"

I feel happy to have a butt. Not sure if any people around me have butts.

hobbity feet reprezent

size 11 biscuit heels with second toe slightly longer than big toe, my shit's all jacked up but I don't care because summer = flip flops and man oh man do I love flip flops

Emilys how did yr bday end up workin' out?

i love flip flops too, when i first moved to qld i wouldn't have dreamed of wearing them but after a couple of miserable summers i gave in and now i love them.

yeah exactly! I never wore them much in Oz but unrelenting Sacramento summers left me no choice

Were the summers miserable or were u miserable due to defying flipflops

it was an all round miseryfest.

Mexico drove me to wearing thongs/flipflops for the first time in 25 years, bcz I hate them. After a day and a half they wore holes in two places on my right foot so now I've been cycling to the beach (and swimming caves and Mayan ruins in the water and) in walking shoes & socks and having to towel sand off them as best I can before biking away again

fuck flip-flops

have had this problem (and reaction), but i bought different flip-flops (cheap) until i found a comfortable non-hole-wearing pair. totally worth it.

havaianas for me for life

^^

Whats that australian for

cunce

my inter-toe areas cannot and will not be violated by yr awful flipflops

i don't think that was even on offer.

tbf i was just gonnna offer

to be flagrantly mendacious

i love this thread, it has got me thinking compassionately about some difficult things that my body has been subjected to during my life and helped me understand where a lot of my historic disdain for my body stemmed from. it feels shameful and a bit mawkish to say this this but, like many other people, i have taken some blows along the way. and it's not as if i've never thought sbout these issues, i have thought and thought, but this thread frames things in a very useful and loving way.

mm it's a big hearted thread

which given it's origins is kind of a miracle

exhibit a for why ilx is gr8 imo

lol @ "vedic tips"

estela otm

Thanks for asking about the birthday, Jon Lewis. I guess shortly after I whined on here, my friend Leslie took me out for pizza and beer. Then today I received a book signed & doodled on by one Mr. Dan Clowes, so I can't complain! (My sweet friend/creepy uncle figure who runs the comic book store sent the book out to CA & requested the favor.)

There are many paths to body positivity: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/25/i_choose_to_be_fat/

I'm on the vedic tip

vedic rib tips

braised consciousness

Vedanta Claus

lol http://www.chakra-khan.com/

WELLNESS

I wouldn't lie to you, baby. It's mainly a vedic thing.

'toned trapeze yoga bitch' keeps running joyfully through my head, <3 emilys.

i've decided that later this month (when i have no social engagements for a while so can potentially hide) i'm going to shave for the first time in ooooh nine years, see if i can escape the 'look' that i know is in part just a way of hiding from whatever's underneath it. WISH ME LUCK.

― Fanois och Alexander (Merdeyeux), Friday, July 12, 2013 9:32 PM (2 weeks ago)

I DID IT I'M SO BRAVE OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE.

:D

pic?

i already did on wdyll but sure i'll splatter myself over every corner of ilx

http://oi44.tinypic.com/nc05s8.jpg

i just saw the wdyll but it's good enough that it bears repeating :)

you look rad, fear not merdey

look at you! that took guts.

Whoah. Whoah! You're cute, M! Good work!

THX. i don't seem to have aged at all since i was 19, it's a bit confusing. i suppose i'll have to take my passport with me whenever i go out now.

io very otm, regardless of her preferences in beardedness

Maybe I'll get lucky and he will have started a trend.

my brand new smooth face will take east london by storm, and from there the rest of the world is just a matter of time.

my inter-toe areas cannot and will not be violated by yr awful flipflops

― mookieproof, Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:52 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think that was even on offer.

― estela, Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:55 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i died

I cut my hair quite short and am getting a lot of compliments!

grats hazel!

So, I've been diagnosed with body dysmorphic disorder and think I'm going to start CBT for it soon. Pretty excited about this - the treatment part not the diagnosis but I've known about that for years anyway - tbh. Maybe after a while I'll be able to join in on yr party for real.

that's p exciting enbb!

Yeah, we'll see. I only really started talking about possible CBT today but my therapist and I area gonna keep talking about it and he might refer me to someone who specializes in BDD or I might stay with him. Anyway it might be a while before I actually start it but, yes, it is exciting.

I only really started talking about possible CBT today

wait what do u and ur therapist do then?

(and good luck, obv)

idk most of the time I just talk a lot and he sits there and nods?

and sometimes interjects with advice or thoughts and stuff?

yeah, i guess sometimes maybe i just equate the two

CBT is cool because it is more structured and there is a lot of evidence to back up its effectiveness. good advice is important but it can be kind of effervescent, but really working to target specific habits has a much better change of really making a difference.

anyway, good luck ENBB

Kudos for recognizing problem and seeking diagnosis/treatment--that is so much harder than it seems! And thanks for posting about it. Sometimes I feel like I should make some sort of "it gets better" video for people suffering from BDD and EDs. When I was in treatment, there was a lot of doom and gloom about "this is something you will likely struggle with all your life," which FUCK YOU is both untrue and a totally stupid thing to say to a 17-year-old depressive anorexic nutcase.

It gets better! For sures!

Aw, thanks Q.

I mean, I've made it to 35 believing that "this is something [I] will likely struggle with all [my] life" and have just sort of excepted it as part of who I am but after a minor freak out over something ridiculous recently I was like FUCK THIS. There has to be SOMETHING that can help. I honestly can't remember a time when I wasn't like this so I'm sorta happy to imagine there might be a time somewhere down the line where I'm not or even just a little bit less like this. That would be pretty awesome tbh.

Also, I do want kids someday and I'd like to at least deal with this shit in some kind of pro-active way before then especially if I may one day have a girl cause I would want to avoid transferring my isues as much as humanly possible. Not that it doesn't matter with boys too of course.

what would u do if your daughter/son hated animals?

disowned.

duh.

;)

(srsly though, what kind of sociopaths hate animals?)

ohmygosh ENBB I really, really, really wish there were some kind of app where you could experience my "I will always be this way, this is part of who I am" period, emotionally and cognitively, and then fastforward to now. I really would never have believed it possible. Getting to FUCK THIS is a real turning point, I think, and one that I kind of check in on/revisit as necessary (not that much, honestly) to recalibrate.

Honestly, if a complete disaster of a high school/college mess can get find her way to an end of the suffering, you with your maturity, smarts, experience, communication skills, friend-and-family base--you got this, girl!

I wish there was too!! Also, <3.

I don't have much to add to this thread at the moment, but just wanted to say I just read the whole thing and it's really good - overwhelmingly positive and helpful. The "thinking nice things about others" thing is interesting and novel. Best to you, ENBB <3.

I love my gut, btw. LOVE it! Which feels weird sometimes. Not like I focus on my gut as one thing to love about my body, but whereas before I fucking hated it every single day, now I sometimes catch sight of it and think, hey, that's a pretty all right belly. Of course sometimes I still feel like all of me looks weird as fuck or a piece of ill-fitting clothing makes me feel frumpy, but on most days I feel at least on good terms with my body or like I've got something to work with.

There are a lot of things I hate about my body/moments I hate my body, but in the interest of accentuating the positive, I will say that when i was walking earlier, I looked down and my thighs were giggling slightly as I walked & I thought it was pretty cute. I have weird little short squatty legs with weirdly shaped shin bones, so I kind of hate them sometimes, but other times, especially when I'm walking everywhere I'm like, you know, damn, I have cute chunky, muscular legs & they have gotten me a lot of places.

my thighs were not giggling...jiggling

jejejejejeje

I love y'all, this thread ruuuules

my hair and skin look fantastic today. moisturizing my face helps me feel radiant. my hair is going crazy in the humidity but it's long and so curly and sexy and carefree. i hope everyone can appreciate their own skin & hair today.

No, giggling!!

xp Excited to use my body for many hours of dancing tonight, so yes!

My skin is hopeless but I won't let it get me down.

My hair and skin both seem hopeless but the rest of me is fine afaik.

Fine like ok not like fiiiine.

im perfect

Yo, your clavicles are fiiiine.

your skin is amazing! it does so many important things. what could you do without skin? not much!

http://i.imgur.com/nIEgPLq.jpg

sorry, had to

irl lols

I am having some health problems right now and having trouble staying body positive. I just feel like my body is broken and toxic. Guh. Has nothing to do with its appearance, just its function. Anyone gone through this before???

yes. I am going through it right now.

Me too. It's my brains fault.

yes, v much. sucks.

Yes, for about 19 years.

Yep, when my asthma was bothering me, I definitely had negative feelings toward my body. A lot of feelings of why should I feel like shit and have such poor stamina when I am this young? Like it was some kind of moral failing or reflection on me as a person.

i feel like i just reached a huge turning point in how i view my body.

about 7 years ago when i was going through a really terrible time, that included severe anxiety attacks, i lost about 30-40lbs because i just couldn't eat at all. since gaining back that weight (and possibly more) in the last 4 years, i've often fondly recalled that time of being slim and feeling like i was at the "right" weight.

now, having gone through the same thing this past week (i haven't lost 30lbs, maybe 5 max), i would give ANYTHING to be able to eat a normal meal 3x a day instead of constantly feeling like my stomach muscles are in a vice, my brain is frazzled, and i can't ever relax for a second. i don't care how fat i get as long as i feel better than this right now.

for all the times i felt bad about my size, and everything related to it, i never ever felt as bad as i do now, being unable to put food in my mouth and losing weight by the day.

<3

xoxo

Hey Just1ne, all best to you. I have had similar epiphanies :(

http://www.thenuproject.com/about-the-project/

oh crud, nsfw

check out that cat photobombing

http://www.beautyexists.net/fashion/finally-a-clothing-store-uses-a-diverse-range-of-models-and-the-results-are-amazing/#sthash.TFVhP2xv.gbpl

twatwatch 2013: subdermal implants - for the love of christ why

?

some severe body negativity it(hat)t

idk

watch the twat

why post something about severe negativity? that's all around us anyway, duh.

what a downer

good point

body positivity positivity

I've been on a kick of getting more hysical activity and eating less garbage and I feel great! Good way to compensate for the colder weather.

*physical

I joined a Mexican folk dancing group! I am feeling pretty good about my body because dancing is fun, and also there are a lot of different body types in the group.

Hey, that's the best!!! I remember when I walked into my first Scottish country dance night and I was like, THE HOMELAND OF MY PEOPLE! w/r/t older women's bodies. It was pretty clear what I'm going to look like at age 70, and I gotta say, it's adorable.

I thought yr people were from michigan

to bring the positivity: I have been doing a number of things to make me not just body-positive but body ~cognizant~ of what I am doing in stressed or busy moments and taking a moment to do what my body needs, not what vice or work-related thing I feel compelled to do. I'm (metrics-wise, thanking you body-tracking tools) possibly in the best shape I've been since before july 2012 with a trend that will leave me at ~best ever~ soon

Body-cognizant! I like that. I know for me I sometimes don't notice if I'm really tense, and I tend to compulsively consume stuff I maybe don't really want when I'm stressed.

Orbit, I almost went to a contra dance thing today, but it cost money I didn't have. I am of Appalachian heritage, and I have to say I do a lot of mental hating on the common features of "my people." I gotta cut that out.

what are the common features of Appalachian people? it seems like such a broad swath

georgia to maine iirc

I associate it, in my family at least, with weak chins, crooked teeth, dark circles around the eyes, puffiness, matronly breasts. Just kind of poor, dumpy, and malnourished yet overweight. I know I need to get over this.

hey y'all! you all have cool bodies! be nice to your body today! YEAH

i have been going to the gym for cardio pretty regular for the past couple months and last week decided to switch it up by trying a bikram yoga class. have gone 3 times so far & i like it despite difficulties. i'm definitely learning a whole lot about my body and my joints and muscles and it feels good to sweat profusely. i'm still keeping a shirt on during class by force of habit but eventually i'll transition to shirtless like most other dudes in class. nevertheless watching your body move around in the mirror throughout a 90 minute class is a cool way to learn some ~body acceptance~ & awareness

also: so many dudes in class! was not expecting

keep talking about this! very motivational.

I haven't been to a dance class in a while but I went last night and it was great. I like my body when it's dancing much more than I like it doing a bunch of other activities--this is kind of a jumping-off point to think about WHY and how to carry that into other times.

Mr. Jaq and I started dance lessons - it is hard to look in all those mirrors, but fun to get moving and awesome to see all kinds of bodies moving with graceful confidence.

i feel you, mirrors can be very challenging for me too, for anyone who struggles with body image. but there's a reason they use mirrors in classes because there's so often a difference between what your body feels like it's doing and what it is actually looks like. integrating the visual with the kinesthetic sense of the body can be pretty profound.

this morning in class i was lying stomach down on the mat between poses and just kind of noticed how big my butt looked in the mirror, but in a cool way that made me want to laugh

stay cool, butt. thanks for all the work you do.

Yeah when I'm in ballet turnout it really shows the musculature in my legs and it's awesome.

I went to a yoga class today! No mirrors, just an ocean view :)

I prefer no-mirror yoga. I do like a mirror in the gym when lifting (for form checks), not that I have done that in forever.

Yay bodies!

ever since I was a kid I've loved dancing in front of a mirror - I think it's because of my Fame/Flashdance obsession

but yeah, it's v motivating, helps you kind of connect to your movements but somehow disconnected from the judgy negative thoughts that go with staring at yourself in the mirror for any length of time, except in terms of 'no don't point your foot that way, point it THIS way etc' -- it's more constructive?

idk

Yeah I think I tune into the way my body *feels* way more than how my body *looks* when I am sans-mirror. But of course there is a reason that they are de rigueur for performing artists!

Usually what I get out of the mirror is an unfocused overall impression of lift and movement and stuff--I'm looking for...a silhouette and a rhythm and some geometric shapes, more than this or that body part. It's sort of clinical but in the service of art.

i think i have really 'embodied' self-esteem issues in the way i hold myself up and move around, and yoga has been teaching me, very slowly, over the past few years, about this whole different way of moving and breathing that's, like, more fun basically. i feel like dancing could be similar and i keep meaning to look around for a class.

mirrors are weird. idk.

Looooooove dancing in the mirror

I have been feeling ok about my face lately, esp wrinkles. The more I think about it, trying to get rid of wrinkles or wishing they weren't there is like trying to get rid of your face -- it's just kinda weird and wrong. My wrinkles only pop up when I'm happy; they can't be all bad.

<3 that is the best way to be imo

i would love to take a dance class, dancing is the best way to move hands down

or I mean

hands in the air, wave em like you just don't etc.

Everybody take a dance class!

trying to get rid of wrinkles (...) is like trying to get rid of your face is pithy and otm.

i was taking hip hop dance class a number of years ago but didn't keep up with it

I did Zumba for a while, it was like a crazy dance class with aerobics thrown in, lots of fun

I love zumba but they always (recently) seem to chuck in godawful line-dancing or plodding 'forced fun' type rock music in so I don't go any more :(

Zumba is so mainstream fitness craze-lame but also potentially SO FUN. Depending on your instructor/class, I guess.

Dancing is the best. I got some expensive leather character shoes and I know eight dances now!

body positivity moment: at the start of yoga today my gym shorts kept sliding and getting in the way of the postures so after the first 10 minutes i just shucked em off and finished class in my underwear

the supreme liberation of giving no fucks

bikini briefs, right

French cut

that sounds like supreme liberation indeed. i'm moderately inspired to see if there's a similar class near me. yoga ppl i know seem kinda prudey/anti-undies but wtf do i know.
also, i have some character shoes too! they are some of my favorites.

yeah nobody's really gonna say boo unless your parts are literally falling out of your clothes. everybody's pretty focused on themselves. i had some boxer briefs which were plenty modest enough and had no holes in them, so whatev

most women in class seem to go for bike shorts & sports bra / bikini top combo

hmm
i've never found sports clothing particularly comfortable or inspiring
i do like dance clothing though -- maybe i should invest in some more of that to increase body positivity. i mean, of course, right?!

I went to four yoga classes last month and found it surprisingly enjoyable. Didn't really know what to wear, tbh. Shorts seemed kinda clumsy, so I settled for loose gym pants. It was really tempting to throw on my running tights for supreme comfort, but since I was the only male to go to the class, I kinda worried that people would find it indecent.
Guess this isn't exactly a body positivity issue, since tbh I don't give a damn if anyone's judging me, but I don't want it to be awkward for others. (this seems ridiculous when I write it out -- but I did ask someone who said no no no no a man should never ever wear such pants indoors.)

wear whatever the hell you want as long as you're not a rude beast about it, imho

agree
criticism says more about the critic sometimes (lots of times)

I truly love dance clothing, especially the fact that dancers will repurpose the raggediest, full of holes thing into a practice layer.

Exhibit: Pair of holey tights turned upside-down with the legs cut off and worn as sports bra with the waistband right below the bust. I've seen this!

wow that's cool

Body horoscope for (username):

Watch out, (username), there's a REALLY COOL BODY on the horizon and it's yours! Say yes to your body today and embrace it wholly.

Trend watch for 2014: v kool 2 b b-po #youhearditherefirst

“I checked out the latest issue of Cosmo this week and it said that thin is in this summer. As if big fat girls have been having a free run of it up until now.”

- Janeane Garofalo

Ok, those character shoes are totally molded to my feet now and I know 10 dances and I'm still overweight but I don't care because my polka stamina has improved and my teacher is really cool and encouraging which I choose to believe has way less to do with his background as a grade school dance teacher (yeah, kids actually learn dance in school in Mexico) and more to do with the fact that I am totally pretty good at dancing.

Also I am pretty sure elmo wins ILE body positivity award of the year for underwear yoga!!!

I could never force myself to exercise for exercise's sake. Right now I am really glad that I seem to be improving my cardiovascular health, but I do not measure my success by my weight. I feel good because my mind and body are connecting to this thing that is also aesthetically beautiful, social and expressive. Also, that thing where you run through like 5 dances in a row and are pretty sure you're gonna die and then you get really hot and sweaty and realize you are gonna feel great for like 3 days.

FUCK HOTNESS AS CURRENCY

I swear to god if one more person tells me how sad it was that Paul Walker died because he was hot or even mentions his hotness in the same sentence as his death I will punch them very hard.

and of course you cannot argue w/ these ppl bcz they do not get subtext and how such phrases totally craft less hot ppl as the other, lesser-thans bcz you can't emphasize one thing without thusly de-emphasizing another

"hot ppl are v important and it is extra sad when they die"

it is sad when anyone dies; the fact that it would be more sad if they were attractive or (as ppl have said abt acquaintances) good in bed is like the most fucking reprehensible thing

it's sad because he was famous and young

(is how I unpack "it's sad, he was hot!")

not very positive

nah stevie otm, body positivity does not mean codes of differentiation through observed 'hotness', it is the validation of one's own appearance & physical form

also young beautiful dead women have been mourned for their hotness for as long as i can remember but it's no more of agl when it's said about a young attractive man.

wtg with the dancing, emilys! dancing is just about the funnest thing to do that there is. i turned my hallway into my own personal dance space recently and it was top notch fun.

i guess i have general physical positivity these days but i don't really feel the need to talk about it. part of feeling good about it is just kinda forgetting about it, at least for me.

...butreallyIjustcameintothisthreadtosay:

last night my girlfriend and I both agreed that we like my body, this felt like a major step forward for me, idk. I got really down on myself when I took a job at this cafeteria-style restaurant with maybe 10 square feet/patron (seriously), and feeling like the space and the people around me were actively fighting me every day (I'm 6'4", long-limbed, and grew up in fairly spacious suburban environs), it doesn't help that my car is too small for me, my entire workday kind of feels like being stuffed into the little-ease..... ah fuck I was supposed to be keeping it positive wasn't I =/

BUT THE POINT IS I have come to a point where I am happy with my body again and getting emotionally and imaginatively invested in it (I compared my stretch marks to tiger stripes and she said that she'd had that thought before), y'all it is so good of a feeling :)))

That sounds very nice, this experience of acceptance!

hello! i am still doing yoga and have graduated to practicing without a shirt because (a) nobody cares & (b) fuck having my torso entangled in a shirt soaked with my own sweat

I love you.

If you ever decide to go girls, call me. Well, shave first, and then call me. Maybe.

<3

i may or may not have lost weight but 2 different instructors commented positively about how my yoga practice is developing & that made me feel great, that my effort was recognized

I'm packing a bag for ballet class tonight, where I will wave my arms around in front of thinner, younger women and a smattering of handsome men (who are either gay or...gay...or there to meet women--but it can be hard to tell), and I'm going to enjoy every minute of it.

i started a new bodi-pos exercise routine and i love it! it feels good to have a plan and know that i am looking forward to the next time rather than dreading it. exercise is primarily a mental health thing for me since i'm not particularly athletic/competitive/interested in stats or goals, so it has to be enjoyable and fun. and so far, it is!

lol i spelled body wrong
i meant body-posi

bodipos

body possibilities!

Adipose, bodipose.

I noticed today that my belly has become more hirsute and I felt good and more winter-adapted

saw my butt in the mirror today & i must say it was p cute & i don't think I've ever felt that way about my butt before

also belly hair is yum imho

belly hair very yum.

* spreads rogaine over rest of torso *

no hair is fine, too! but I find a lot of men are self conscious about their body hair, if they have a lot... and I am a big fan of it, personally!!

Just poured myself into a pair of jeggins (lololololol) and feeling pretty good about it.

Im prob gonna have to get a pair of cycle pants when i move jobs jaysus help

ding ding

* spreads rogaine over rest of torso *

― mh, Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:43 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

someone actually suggested that my old rmm8 do this but the kicker was that the guy who told him was someone he was hooking up with and he told him while they were in bed right after they'd fucked

not v body posi imo

after seeing all the crazy-ass warnings about topical drugs with hormones in them, I would not recommend putting that shit on any body part that might touch others

which means I could probably cover my whole body in it, but ymmv

I know that this is a thing that ppl have done to actually grow more chest hair but it seems weird that you would like have to choose and shape your chest hair pattern and stuff idk

grow it in the shape of a maze

one time i was waiting outside a walgreen's with the dog while justine was shopping, and i killed the time by reading back of the rogaine bottles that were against the window. the warnings are hilarious. they even warn you not to put it on a baby!

A hedge maze.

^ yes

ooh you could grow it really long and thick and then make little topiary animals

have you seen those commercials for topical testosterone supplements? I hadn't until espn was on at a restaurant where I was at the bar. they basically say to scrub yourself thoroughly before touching other humans. I think they're marketed as the equivalent of estrogen supplements given to menopausal women.

weirdest part was that a couple are basically deodorant-style roll-ons that are used underarm

Well. My dance teacher suggested that I lose a little weight. Kill everything, kill everyone.

This upsets me not in that it makes me feel bad about my body (it doesn't), but because I am extremely disappointed that he appears to be a patriarchal fuck-wit. And it's especially baffling/annoying because dude was giving me SERIOUS laser witch eyes at the Christmas party, and drunkenly told me he liked my dress, he liked my moves, and I am beautiful. W/E. I tore him a new asshole, and now we are apparently "good." I'm just gonna dance extra-now and still weigh 180 and make him regret that he'll never get this.

*extra hard

Geez, no kidding. That's a totally shitty thing for anyone to have said.

My body posi exercise regimen is still really fun btw. Turns out I like doing yoga a lot better when I get to listen to whatever I want and do the poses I feel I need. Lately that has been a lot of balancing poses.

I work with someone who is not very body positive, and it's getting annoying.

two things:

1) body-pos in the wild: my mom came to the conclusion that all of her women's magazines were "garbage" and she threw them out + bonus vowed not to subscribe/buy any more. she said "i don't buy what they're selling any way you look at it" hi 5 mom!

2) my new routine hit a very minor snag but in general is going well and is also insanely fun. might need to switch it up soon, but i want to make sure this one sticks so that i can come back to it.

hope all is well in your bodies in 2014

with the exception of an evening where I drank a bit too much, my week setting up my new outlook went swimmingly! I got back from vacation and all the slushjumping I did seems to have left me a little stronger

On the body pos front, thinking about getting some full length mirrors and bought a midi skater dress from ASOS Curve (thank u 4ever homosexualII). I'm attributing this to the dance lessons which are still very fun and we are feeling more confident/competent and less glued to one spot. As an older fat lady who wears pull-on mom jeans with a tshirt and cardigan pretty much every damn day (with gray wooly socks and black clumpy clogs), this feels huge tbh.

also, emilys, that is crap from your dance teacher, glad you tore him a new one. Ours is pretty smarmy-salesy (lol 4rthur Murr4y, famous for it) but I will take all the positive comments and slow rate of instruction for now.

I own a full-length mirror! I am not sure if it's completely for body positive effects, but it's in the hall outside my bedroom and kind of lends to making that alcove seem larger.

I want someone to make laser witch eyes at me!

my body is feeling positive! i went to yoga 6 out of 7 days last week, not out of any sense of duty but because i'm just waking up naturally at 5AM. this is maybe a bit much and i have have pushed myself too hard because my left hamstring has a persistent twinge. so, a few days off & not going as hard during class. but that aside feeling pretty dang good.

lesson is that body positivity involves listening to yr body and honoring when it needs downtime / gentleness / care

all this talk of dancing! im thinking of maybe taking an evening dance class once it warms up a bit.

(fwiw this is elm0 hi yes hello)

oh hai

i hurt my leg w/ too much yoga too. rest is crucial!

still need to investigate dance options.

Jaq! That is awesome!

you guys know that you can dance at home too, right?
my strong recommendation is finding a song that you can't not-dance to
i was wondering if there was a thread about this actually -- like "what song whacks you with the rhythm stick" or w/e
mine is 'mother sky'

oh i dance at home all the time. i want to think about it and explore it more though, which may mean a class or it may mean reading/watching more about dance, or both.

i would like to be opened to a much wider repertoire of movement through more focused work

i'm working on a routine! that's part of my new exercise regimen. it's rilly rilly rilly fun and occupies my brain while my body is moving around. i fully recognize how ridiculous it is and yet i can't stop doing it.

oh that's a good idea

yeah i like just dancing & grooving for its own sake but i really enjoy learning dance steps & choreography -- learning new stuff is the best. in general tho i'm not a remarkable or accomplished dancer by any means but you could never accuse me of lacking enthusiasm for *dramatic arm gesture* the art of dance

if you lived closer we could stage a dance-off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gvq292tFYE

dammit
will this one work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGyBdn5BWOw

no
well anyway it's the trailer for heavenly bodies

I can't remember, did I already ask about or accuse you of wearing a leotard during this aerobic routine?

I dunno but I only have one and I don't want to ruin it with 3x weekly wear/stink.

We dance at home for sure, but we want to dance in public and not give a damn about anything :)
(xpost)

also want dope moves

I put on one of my pairs of black pants this morning. I have two that are similar, a loose one and a thin one. I thought I'd chosen the former and was like, eh, just got back from vacation so it makes sense it wouldn't be as loose-fitting as last week

I am wearing the thin ones! whoa

i started taking ballet classes at a mostly modern dance school this week - its something ive been wanting to do for like, 2 years, and i finally went. it was great because there were all kinds of body types and types of people and the teacher was equally attentive to everyone's different abilities, etc. it brought back some negative feelings from my childhood but kinda resolved them! it was great.

i got some new clothes the other day and man, when trousers actually FIT you just feel magnificent, and when i've got a nice shirt on too it's like u can't f wit me

I think I probably need to read this thread from beginning to end and come back again, because I am really not feeling a lot of body positivity right now and I am in desperate need of finding some body positivity again.

Basically, I really need to stop looking at beautiful, thin boys' bodies and thinking "if I were a man, I'd have a body like that" because, even though almost all of the men in my family are slender, chances are, I wouldn't have that kind of body, I'd have my lumpy body, but with lumps in different places. (It doesn't matter that the mass of my body would read less problematically if it were male, because the problem here is not ~society~ it is me.)

What do you do when you have a failure of body positivity, and you want your body positivity back?

Fucked if I know, I've stayed off this thread for that reason. Wondering how useful an "I've come to hate my body" thread would be

over xmas break, I was sitting on a plastic toilet lid and it cracked and fell into the toilet, is how I feel about my body these days. :D

x-post

I don't know if that would be a good idea, because I am generally really in favour of body positivity.

But on the other hand, perhaps it might help, in the way that I, personally, find that "anguished philosophers" thread way, way more helpful in accepting and living with mine own mind and the darkness that can rise inside it, than all of the "depression and what it's like" threads of people being sympathetic and encouraging and "try this drug, or this therapy, and you will be all power of positive thinking all the time!"

But on the other hand, I've spent way, way too much of my life in a place of hating my body to want to indulge that mindset any more than I already do.

I don't want to hate my body. I'm done with that kind of thinking. It's a radical act to accept my body.

And maybe what I should do is lookit more photos of one of my favourite rockstars, who got fatter in middle age, and the weird thing about him is, he was always kinda odd-looking when he was young and skinny, like his body didn't really fit his face. And now that he's heavier, he looks so much better to the point where I actually think he looks way hotter with his current body than he did before. And I should pin up photos of him looking heavy all over my flat because I think he is genuinely beautiful, until I come to associate that kind of body with beauty, and maybe like mine own better again.

I don't even really hate my body's fatness. I hate my body's femaleness. but that is another thread.

at the risk of being a negative Nancy it seems detrimental to be putting so much emphasis on hotness, it's importance and worth, what is and is not hot, etc on a thread about body positivity

imo it feels much more liberating and forward-thinking to let go of all notions of like universal attractiveness and it's worth and embrace bodies as wonderful than it does to try to rewrite the canon of subjective or objective hotness.

I mean for me at least I am not attracted to my body type, I do not think of myself as "hot", but some people do, and that's cool, but none of that should factor into how I love my body because it is mine, it is unique, I am a multi-faceted individual that my body exists in relation to it, it is has proven to be advantageous in ways that have nothing to do with sexuality or hotness, it has been a device and catalyst for introspection and thinking about how I think about things (other bodies, hotness, self image, insecurity, confidence)

Is it wrong to want to redefine hottness so that you can feel like your own body is hott? I guess this is the wrong thread for me, then. Because I am really sick of feeling so unattractive physically. And I have been doing years and years of "my body is good because it gets me from A to B in a fast and sturdy way" but I would really like to feel like my body is something that a person - especially a person defined as me - could look at as hott. If that's not allowed, then this is not a good space for me. My bad, sorry.

I will say this unequivocally, though: I walked several miles in the wind today, and I have PERFECT shoegaze hair right now. Like, 1992 Ride video hair. That is some positivity, even if my hair isn't my body.

Is it wrong to want to redefine hottness so that you can feel like your own body is hott? I guess this is the wrong thread for me, then. Because I am really sick of feeling so unattractive physically. And I have been doing years and years of "my body is good because it gets me from A to B in a fast and sturdy way" but I would really like to feel like my body is something that a person - especially a person defined as me - could look at as hott. If that's not allowed, then this is not a good space for me. My bad, sorry.

No, that's not wrong at all, in fact I think it's instinctive, and it's one that I had for a while, but I'm offering another framework in which to approach this and it's not v posi to get all sarcastic and hostile when people offer a personal perspective that's different from yr own

none of that should factor into how I love my body because it is mine, it is unique, I am a multi-faceted individual that my body exists in relation to it, it is has proven to be advantageous in ways that have nothing to do with sexuality or hotness, it has been a device and catalyst for introspection and thinking about how I think about things (other bodies, hotness, self image, insecurity, confidence)

<3 <3 <3 This is good stuff, Stevie--thank you.

I'm sorry, what on earth makes you think I'm being hostile and sarcastic? Please don't read my posts with emotions that I do not feel. That's quite unfair.

I mean, seriously. I'm quite upset now. If I come into a thread and talk in my usual blustery kind of way, I'm told I'm a "bull in a china shop." If I talk in an apologetic and "I'm not sure I understand this right?" way then I'm "sarcastic and hostile"?

It honestly feels like there is no way that I can talk, on ILX, that someone is not going to tell me isn't negative.

Please stop projecting things onto me and onto my words.