Paul Schrader's THE CANYONS, starring Lindsay Lohan and some porn star

This gets its own thread just like all the loud blockbuster shit.

Early critical returns:

http://www.fandor.com/blog/daily-paul-schraders-the-canyons

thanks but no thanks. was it the NYT that ran the longest most boring story ever about the making of this movie?

the magazine

making-ofs are not usually entertaining

"no thanks" is probably the best response to lohan, schrader, and that porn guy

I am sort of fascinated with the phenomenon of James Deen and the constant tagline that he "has a following among women." Sometimes I wonder if that's really true or if it's just to titilate guys with the thought of women who like porn.

hey morbs, btw I am sorry I was a jerk to you in the JGL movie thread, that was uncalled for

that porn guy gave a "talk" at my school recently and for months there posters of him, semi-nude, plastered on every wall, elevator door, bathroom stall, etc. on campus. it was ridiculous, and eventually made me kind of nauseated.

JGL = jean-godard luc?

The idea of the pornstar "gone legit" has been around for a while I guess, but has there been a male version before? And also I wonder if society is more ready to accept this from a male porn star than a female one.

although i see this movie includes such bon mots as "nobody has a private life anymore, tara"

hurting, i think "society" is ready to not see this movie :)

what's the name of the british porn guy who looks like the guy from blur? he has a very large penis. he should be in movies too. he can play the guy from blur.

paul schrader hasn't made a great movie since Patty Hearst. which was a great movie.

he should make a movie about a veteran movie director who can't stop masturbating long enough to make a great movie.

schrader is an incredibly irritating person. every time i see him interviewed i kind of regret liking any of his movies.

id love for this to be good but theres just no way

schrader is an incredibly irritating person. every time i see him interviewed i kind of regret liking any of his movies.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, July 29, 2013 8:34 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, he's quite punchable. he's clearly got a schtick all worked out in his head.

also he needs to get over himself w/ all the "the cinema is dead! dead, I say!" stuff when he just goes on making shitty, shitty movies.

http://paulschrader.org/images/index_04.jpg

"i'm sorry, what was that? i'm working too hard on my rigorous stare to hear what you said... oh, remind me to tell you about how I grew up in a puritan household that didn't let me watch movies. that could be a good angle for your write-up on me. did i mention that cinema is dead?"

yeah, Schrader being a douche makes me ignore all the terrible movies he's written/directed

the worst is when he starts talking about your favorite movie (say, some bresson flick) and almost makes you hate it, too

though he's made some decent movies. mishima is kind of half of one. and i like american gigolo. but none of it justifies the preening self-satisfaction suggested by his customary expression in press photos

oh yeah now I remember that I saw the trailer for this at Frances Ha, and there was some meta line about the death of cinema and I thought "ooh, meta"

i remember the last time i watched Mishima and there was a 6 minute static shot of Schrader looking preening and self-satisfied

When I had my first table read with the cast, I said to them, ‘This is the story of some 20-something Angelenos who got in line to see a movie, but the theater closed. But they stayed in line because they had nowhere else to go.’ That’s how I felt about these characters. They were making movies and didn’t care about making movies. They were hooking up and didn’t seem to care much about that either. The idea of the ghost of the multiplex, wandering the mall after the theater closed, it started to become an image in my mind.

(btw people in L.A. still go to a lot of movies. and they are still building multiplexes. but, you know, death of cinema yadda yadda yadda.)

i remember the last time i watched Mishima and there was a 6 minute static shot of Schrader's penis looking preening and self-satisfied

― Mancunian stagger (Noodle Vague), Monday, July 29, 2013 8:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The clip he played the night I saw him speak...did not synch up well with all the interesting stuff he had to say on the future of movies. It looked more antiseptic than American Gigolo (which I haven't seen since release and might like better today). Anyway, he made Affliction, and that's enough.

Blue Collar is always worth watching.

version of Mishima i know and love is different to yours amateurist, maybe the projecting was different

Schrader is an uninteresting filmmaker. He's one of those guys who's thought about sin and death and sex and created sinless, deathless, sexless movies.

i think 'taxi driver' might be a great movie almost in spite of him.

blue collar is pretty good. i think the last reel is a bit rushed, but yeah it's a very impressive debut and richard pryor is fantastic in it.

besides Blue Collar, Hardcore, Patty Hearst etc, the lurid soap pastiche w/ J Fiennes was good.

apparently all three lead actors + schrader hated each other like the devil during the making of blue collar.

to the point of fisticuffs. i kind of imagine yaphet kotto winning.

The only film he directed in which I felt a pulse was Light Sleeper. Blue Collar and Affliction had good bits.

If you think Taxi Driver's great--which I realize not every one does--I don't think you can say it's great in spite of him; from everything I've read, the entire conception of the film is his (and very autobiographical).

i'm trying to think of a reasoned response to this shut-eye but i don't know what i have except FUCK EM, FUCK EM ALL

actually i love 'taxi driver,' but i can easily imagine a lesser director (like schrader himself) making it into an unwatchable, self-pitying mess.

he manipulates melodrama, and theatricality, he's never really naturalistic, but that's part of the process of making art as far as i can see - his work is about humans straining against the mundane - there's enough images in any one of his directed movies to make him more worthwhile than most of the chumps working in the mainstream after him, and enough ambivalence in his written work to make you long for the era before every cunt's hat was black or white

I admire his influences -- Ozu, Bresson, etc -- but he lacks any of the fluency that suggests a way to synthesize these influences in startling ways. He directs like a screenwriter with hang-ups.

(xxpost) Oh, I agree with that--directed by Schrader, I'm sure it would have been turgid.

Blue Collar, Affliction, Mishima, Light Sleeper, Hardcore, Taxi Driver, Cat People, The Comfort of Strangers...I love all these movies. (Saw Patty Hearst but have no clear memories of it.) I'll probably end up seeing this.

way too much hate on this thread; even the Bob Crane movie had one of Dafoe's best performances.

Every new film thread becomes a director retrospective. At least no Seinfeld.

Hurting's initial point about James Deen was intersting tbf

gonna go see schrader introduce Pickpocket tomorrow in the theater, am curious to hear him talk

Every new film thread becomes a director retrospective.

In the early stages of such threads, it's difficult to say much about a film you haven't seen (and probably hasn't even opened), no?

The last line of narration in Auto Focus is, along with the entirety of Mishima, still one of my favorite things ever, so I'll happily give anything Schrader does a shot.

Re: male pornstars, the hedgehog tried very hard to go legit. Didnt quite work tho

I'm curious about this enough to see it. Autofocus showed he's still worth paying attention to. I kinda put him in the same boat as friedkin.

is this on demand or something? cinema is dead so I don't want to go see it in a theater

yeah, it's VOD. day and date w/ theatrical i think. right?

auto focus is kind of great

Film Comment went balls out with this one.

thanks but no thanks. was it the NYT that ran the longest most boring story ever about the making of this movie?

― scott seward, Monday, July 29, 2013 9:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the magazine

making-ofs are not usually entertaining

― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Monday, July 29, 2013 9:17 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man you guys are trippin, this piece was so fantastic

Scrolled all the way down to post that exact same thing - that was one of the best on-set articles I've ever read! Up there with David Foster Wallace's "Lost Highway" piece

i just remember it being long. and i'm not big on lohan-lore. she's just not that interesting to me. the porn guy wasn't either.

"I'm curious about this enough to see it. Autofocus showed he's still worth paying attention to. I kinda put him in the same boat as friedkin."

Except Friedkin is less insufferable and made better movies.

she's just not that interesting to me. the porn guy wasn't either.

The article was kind of almost about that - or, at least, the writer certainly agrees with you. But you're right, it was pretty epic. I didn't want it to end, though!

the dismissiveness toward james deen itt ("some porn star" "that porn guy") is kind of offputting to me but i can't articulate why

isn't all casting stunt casting, when you really think abt it

he's not just some porn star he's an incredibly cute geeky looking hot porn star :)

i know he fucks for money and we're all above that but he has a (dumb) (stage) NAME you know

THAT LOVELY YOUNG PORN MAN

"she's just not that interesting to me. MISTER PORN SIR wasn't either."

i have a feeling this will be my new favorite movie

Paul schrader is good imo. My fave is light sleeper, I don't even mind the kind of absurd Michael Been soundtrack (I like those kind of vocalists I guess; Brendan perry, Patrick walker, etc.) Susan Sarandon is A+ in that movie.

We oughta poll Friedkin Vs. Schrader.

If it's a biggest-blowhard poll, make it Friedkin vs. Schrader vs. Bogdanovich.

...vs. Tarantino, vs. etc. I guess that's a category that stretches out into infinity.

Tarantino at least is funny.

von Trier too, in the case of a general blowhard poll.

David Milch, if we're talking religious/literary guys.

let's just poll everyone

paul schrader hasn't made a great movie since Patty Hearst. which was a great movie.

― scott seward, Monday, July 29, 2013 9:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

auto focus owns. affliction owns. smh at schrader hate in this thread. hes made some stinkers but who hasnt

"My fave is light sleeper, I don't even mind the kind of absurd Michael Been soundtrack"

might be the worst soundtrack for a movie that i can think of. made the whole thing excruciating to me.

yeah i liked the hogan's hero movie. it was pretty crazy and seedy. i can't remember if i saw affliction? maybe i did. i should watch it i guess. feel like i saw it on cable.

Haven't seen The Walker, but it sounded interesting.

the dismissiveness toward james deen itt ("some porn star" "that porn guy") is kind of offputting to me but i can't articulate why
― R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:19 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i had honestly forgot his name and was too lazy to google it. but i will type it now to mollify the porn gods: james deen. rhymes with peen.

lol idk about goole but to me it smacks of "and some porn star, i dont know his name, some guy, i never watch porn, personally, couldnt pick 'im out of a lineup, read somewhere hes in porn"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQddjgpCEAEYJwj.jpg

h4a otm. schrader may be a self-important blowhard, but he's written and/or directed a bunch of good-to-great films:

taxi driver
rolling thunder
blue collar
american gigolo
raging bull
mishima
patty hearst
the last temptation of christ
the comfort of strangers
light sleeper
affliction
auto focus

that's a hell of a resume, and it's all that really counts, afaic. i even like cat people. so i'm curious to see what he does with this. fact that it stars lohan and a "porn star" doesn't bother me. tbh, i'm sucker enough to be intrigued.

I always think of Paul Schrader in the same weird realm as Robert Towne, Philip Kaufman and a few other '70s writers turned directors with intriguing/eclectic track records.

Musto interviews Ellis:

http://gawker.com/bret-easton-ellis-likes-lindsay-even-if-adderall-makes-976202715

I like this because fuck The Way Way Back:

Can some people still not make the intellectual leap that you’re personally not depraved, you’re just an observer of all that?

It’s particularly pronounced now when I see the reviews that people seem to think I don’t realize I’m creating aimless, amoral characters. In fact, these people interest me and always have. I don’t feel like I’m explicitly judging them. That’s always bothered the critics. Because I let the characters play out their scenarios and don’t bring a lot of judgment to it, typically humanist critics are incredibly dismayed. But is The Canyons any worse than The Way, Way, Back? I don’t know. You know, a warm coming of age film with all of the edges worn off? It really bothered me, and I cannot believe it got good reviews.

Also, roffle:

Schrader says he wants to write a Clarence Thomas movie with Spike Lee directing. Thoughts?

Hmm. It would be dependent on who’d play Clarence Thomas.

Paula Deen? James Deen?

(ignores)

I'd love a Clarence Thomas movie with Spike Lee playing Thomas. Not in any make-up or anything, just as Spike Lee playing Clarence Thomas.

Brooklyn ballcap, but from actual transcripts.

Zactly, I'd Kickstarter that.

paul schrader actually has a clarence thomas-like creepiness about him

submerged autobio maybe, crank up the auteurism machines gents

amateurist otm

http://paulschrader.org/images/index_04.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Thomaseeoc.jpg

that article was pretty entertaining! i actually felt a little bad about my earlier comment about PS after reading it, he comes across as fairly sympathetic and likable in it.

LL was good in 'mean girls' i guess but all the talk about her being a really good actress seems like it's resting on...not very much. like on paper the idea of her having all this raw talent that she doesn't know how to control sounds good, but is it actually true?

i've been to harsh on paul schrader on this thread. sorry paul schrader. you've made some excellent films. you're just kind of a blowhard you know? with all this end-of-cinema stuff. a lot of people are making awesome movies and not whining about any of that stuff. paul schrader, meet johnnie to. johnnie to, meet paul schrader.

TOO harsh

To harsh or not too harsh, that is the question.

http://movies.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/movies/the-canyons-is-an-erotic-thriller-with-lindsay-lohan.html?ref=movies&_r=0

james deen looks almost frightening like a young anthony weiner 2 me

theres some okay lohan emoting here, not much else

the abandoned movie theaters is just............

PDF Flipbook of the movie, from IFC:
http://t.co/BjZHd7Ierk

So my high school classmate is 'David' in this. I watched American Psycho with him for the first time at his house

No doubt most of you have read this already, but this thread is not complete without this fantastic NYT story from January.

Ah, see it was mentioned earlier.

I've read three reviews so far--Edelstein, Thomson, and a local weekly--and they all treat this like something beyond awful. I probably wasn't going to see this, now I'm interested.

I'd love an arthouse double feature of this and Only God Forgives, as much as I like Edelstein.

of course David Denby liked it.

Just looked at his review. He didn't hate it, but, beyond saying it looked good for its budget, I'm not sure I'd say he liked it.

Ellis and Schrader have given them few dimensions but sexual hunger, which certainly makes it easier to spin them through a roundelay of meetings and betrayals. Yet the right dramatic mode for that kind of whirligig activity is farce. The screenwriter Robert Towne and the director Hal Ashby understood that when they made the hilarious “Shampoo,” which has an avid male hairdresser (Warren Beatty) sleeping with his clients. But there isn’t a joke or a light moment anywhere in “The Canyons.”

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/08/02/kanye-west-remixed-canyons-trailer/

But there isn’t a joke or a light moment anywhere in “The Canyons.”

well, you know, paul schrader

It's on demand for a couple of nights. Dunno if I should spend a few dollars or watch The Scarlet Empress again.

it's worth watching. there is a dum dum girls song in the credits and visually the movie is pretty effective at what it wants to convey: an exhausted kind of sun-drenched LA glamor that is, somehow, no longer alluring.

also i kind of liked the fact that the main characters in this movie were joylessly involved in the process of making a movie none of them really seemed to care about or believe in. it almost seemed like the movie was openly inviting you to speculate on why it was made, or why people make movies at all. so much about this movie, like the murder subplot, feels so forced and pointless. ellis has said that he imagined the movie as a pulpy, somewhat "knowing" genre exercise but schrader filmed it "straight" and i think this tension is... if not super interesting, the most interesting thing about the film.

watch the scarlet empress again. haven't seen/have no opinion on the canyons but it could be 'dunno if i should save this baby from drowning or watch the scarlet empress again' and i'd say watch the scarlet empress again.

I'll probably buy it on DVD

to me it smacks of "and some porn star, i dont know his name, some guy, i never watch porn, personally, couldnt pick 'im out of a lineup, read somewhere hes in porn"

In my case this attitude happends to be genuine, even gay porn almost always puts me to sleep.

re the proposed 'blowhard poll', damn, clemenza is never getting over that chilly look Bogdanovich shot him.

Positive from Stephanie Zacharek:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-07-31/film/the-canyons/

this looks classy

Well, it feels a lot like someone's first movie who saw and loved Closer and In The Company of Men, and maybe wrote it as a play first and maybe cast college friends in most of the parts. Maybe it's the DIY side of it (down to LiLo doing her own makeup) that makes it remind me so much of DIY theater that can be awful but still have some grains of truth in it, some good moments. Terrible in some ways, but I'm glad to have seen it.

Worth watching for the UPS truck, though.

20k box office

Wonder how much it's made VOD. Week before last it was showing in one theater.

i bet it made way more on VOD than theatrical, b/c probably 80% of people watching this are "hey! lindsay lohan's boobies!"

(i would have added "hey! james deen's cock!" but that's already available 24/7 on the interwebs)

The idea of the pornstar "gone legit" has been around for a while I guess, but has there been a male version before?

Does Catherine Breillat counts as legit? In which case that Rocco Siffredi fellow.

Depends on yr def of 'legit' obv, but Ron Jeremy has appeared in a number of non-porno movies, and Fred Lincoln was in the original Last House on the Left, as well as lots of adult flicks.

but ron jeremy is just a walking punchline all related to his porn stardom

do we count joan crawford?

wait, she's a lady

Pretty mannish tho (there's a word that doesn't get used much)

I tried watching this last night, but it was impossible. I got to about 35 minutes in and I felt totally drained.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5220f617/turbine/lat-venicefest-wre0011097437-20130830/599

"I got to about 35 minutes in and I felt totally drained."

seems appropriate given the cast.

lol at schrad-dog in tht photo

lol when this thread popped up in SNA my first thought was "Jesus, is James Franco ever going to make a decent movie?"

who's the woman on the right?

Tenille Houston, supporting actor in the movie.

From the same red carpet:
http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2013730/rs_560x415-130830130748-1024.Canyons-Venice.mh.083013.jpg

Streaming this on iTunes. It's...something.

People who are shocked by this this thematically haven't read enough BEE

Not anywhere near as terrible as many have made out

Wow who'd have thought it, Dr morbius has never heard of James Dean

i generally hate porn, some faggots do.

and it's Deen

james deen is terrible in this. i still think there is an interesting hollywood's-grim-twilight thing going on in this film but it is very inept in some pretty obvious ways

Acting-wise, it does have the very particular feel of an undergrad production of a Neil LaBute play or Closer.

which could be part of the point of this movie about joyless hollywood strivers who are allegedly in the process of making a movie but don't seem to particularly care about acting or cinema.

Oh yeah. I can think of a few times I've seen someone give a flat or unconvincing performance in a play, only to have them seem genuinely flat and unconvincing when i meet them at the cast party after. Deen's version of an L.A. trust-fund dude may feel more like being in the room with one than Robert Downey in Less Than Zero--Pauly Shore if his mom had been a realtor instead of a comedy-club owner.

Aware of the spelling doc it was a dumb joek, in fairness I'd just woken up

This is the kinda film I have a compulsion to see in order to formulate opinions4u

Paul schrader is good imo. My fave is light sleeper, I don't even mind the kind of absurd Michael Been soundtrack (I like those kind of vocalists I guess; Brendan perry, Patrick walker, etc.) Susan Sarandon is A+ in that movie.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 18:57

might be the worst soundtrack for a movie that i can think of. made the whole thing excruciating to me.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:16

I just watched this film and I liked it. Yes, the vocals were pretty cheesy in places but the music was brilliant.
Don't know if I've seen another film with that kind of soundtrack where the lyrics by the same singer are pushed up to the front when characters have no dialogue.

the music did ruin that film.

Just the singing or the music in general?

This is on Netflix now btw.

(though depending on how the accusations about Deen mount, may not stay there long)