TRUE DETECTIVE on hbo - matthew mcconaughey, woody harrelson, michelle monaghan, fukunaga, pizzolatto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8i5CR4kDjM

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/edtv-dvd.jpg

I'm enjoying McConaughey 3.0.

yeah me too

shit, i didnt even know woody was in edtv.

this looks interesting -- yeah i really like raggedy kinda creepy McConaughey, he's much more convincing & unpredictable

Has anyone done a Matthew McConaughey/Woody Harrelson TS? They both specialize in playing the same sort of guy over and over again yet are usually equally welcome additions to films, with a knack for choosing interesting roles/films. I saw the second "Hunger Games" movie the other day, and Woody once again reveals himself remarkably capable of playing silly and serious at the same time. McConaughey, too, by dint of his disposition, gives off similar vibes, especially lately. No one pegged them as the sort to get Oscar buzz and whatnot, and yet here we are in Matthew's case, and of course, Woody has already been there a few times. They're both even from East Texas, bordering the panhandle.

and many tasteful gay men have imagined a 3some with them

That's what they call the "East Texas Waltz."

McConaughey is great as usual(!), not sure how this is going to work in the long run, it's kind of ponderous. Kept flashing back to Carnivale - well-crafted but maybe overly pretentious to work.

er, ponderous not pretentious

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0976247/?ref_=nv_sr_1

for fans of m&h, this is a true passion project for both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri3kfC2oKzk

i couldn't handle how well-tailored and snug their shirts were, its like, no way would detectives in 1994 louisiana look that stylish

in 1994 it should have been flowing billowy silks

exactly. even today, i don't think smalltown detectives would wear ultra-fitted model shirts.

http://cdn.solecollector.com/media/u/images/top-10-nba-draft-suits-jalen-rose.jpg

^ what the 90s were REALLY like #90skid #childofthe90s #ripunclephil

My grandfather is from Louisiana and he has always worn well fitted shirts and pants, he's ex-military so that might have something to do with it. Anyway I enjoyed this.

all movie detectives should be dressed like matt damon in the informant

http://i.imgur.com/mXwjoBP.jpg

But yeah even Fox Mulder wasn't that tailored in the 90's.

<3 woody, have been realising lately that I may <3 Matthew too

I didn't know this show existed till today

I was cold on McConaughey for a while but he's been in some great stuff lately. Woody I hardly ever like his movies but he has all that credit built up from Cheers (with me anyway) so I always get sucked into watching him, lol

Loving this already. Kind of like a Louisiana Top of the Lake.

I liked the premiere but didn't love it. A lot of the dialogue was too self-consciously "writerly" than I'd have liked.

Also people are way too excited about seeing movie stars on TV.

i wanna say "i'd be excited about seeing woody & mac together in anything" but my having not seen edtv puts paid to that being a lie

I have no problem with Writerly, but then I'm also probably the only guy who loved John From Cincinatti.

Milch is writerly too, but has a very specific voice and outlook. This felt more generically gloomy to me.

Yeah I hear that. I perked up on the last line, though. Definitely looking forward to next ep.

i kinda wish they were a bit more mcconaughey-y and harrelson-y. seeing the woodmeister as the straight man harshed my buzz a bit

I was prepared to hate the writerliness but totally enjoyed this. Actors acting. Cinematographers shooting. Southern gothic. Evil that men do. Millennium meets Blair Witch in Louisiana. What's not to like?

A Henriksen cameo would really pull this together but it probably takes itself too seriously for that.

This ruled.

yeah this was fantastic

Good to have Mac's pretentious musings undercut by Woody. Love them, love the atmosphere, and I can see it slinking a bit in the mid but despite that when I finished the first ep I immediately wanted to watch the 2nd.

Encouraged by this... Felt burned by the US version of the The Bridge, so I'm crossing fingers that this will keep it together. Good to hear The Black Angels cash in on some of the HBO cash that BJM has been making.

Texas Killing Fields recommended to folks who like this new wave of Southern Gothic.

Don't know how I haven't seen Texas Killing Fields, thanks!

if you liked the killing fields...

I haven't seen the movie but this definitely put me in mind of the actual texas killing fields--which is so grim I can hardly imagine enduring a movie about it.

loved this though. thought MM's monologue in the car was a little over the top until it became clear his character is a bit crazy.

this was p great - rog mexico otm
altho its easier to build the mystery than reveal it so im remaining a bit wary

the taxman called himself a realist/pessimist but “I have a bad taste in my mouth out here. Aluminum and ash. Like you can smell the psycho-sphere.” made me think of speculative crime scene investigation. a thread about this would be nice , someday.

wow so good

ya guys but the shirts

they looked awesome in their suits--i consider this as necessary as modern hair and makeup in movies that take place in ancient rome.

it didn't look particularly "90s" at all. Apart from the fog of cigarette smoke in the office scenes

it's funny, i was 16 at the time but if you asked me to describe what 1995 was like i could only shrug in response.

well, yeah

1995 was like JNCOs and shitty music

would def loved to have seen trhem rockin jncos

wish this sho was more like vh1 'i love the 90s'

a better thread idea than this one would be "POLL the 90s: music in the 90s"

anyone read pizzolatto's novels?

McCounohay holds his cigarette like a joint

“I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures that should not exist by natural law…We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory, experience, and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody.”

hope Taxman will apply his view on things to his detectiving, remove the humanity from the crime and let animality run loose to reveal trails/ scents/ connections that will possibly break the case. the crime looks pagan in nature, enough to alert Reverend Tuttle to pressure the police into making an "task force to investigate crimes with an anti-christian conotation"... more likely it's a crime with an anti civilisation conotation. the victim met "a king" (anti democracy? "King Tyrant Lizard" dominance over other species like the victim, a prey with antlers )

what other detectives use similar speculative method, on top of my head i can only think of, maybe, agent cooper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK4CD2BfA0g , 60s kitsch tv batman, johnny to's mad detective... an "interesting" way to go from there would be to , maybe, use these intutions and make the jump from fiction to real life, using the effect of what we know about the life of the actors and how it reveals something about the narrative as a bridge into "real life" to... idk

i'm pushing the joke too far with that last sentence but i think it could be a fun thing to think about.

there's a well-known dutch (?) detective novelist whose character practices zen—can't remember the name at the moment.

tv's 'life' had a framed and unjustly imprisoned cop damian lewis who picked up self-help zen while in the joint and then compulsively broke into puzzled quasi-koans about the ordinary things people around him said while he was working cases. not sure that was methodically effective tho.

also philip kerr's 'a philosophical investigation', somehow.

Cohle: This place is like someone's memory of a town, and the memory's fading. It's like there was never anything here but jungle.

Hart: Stop sayin' shit like that. It's unprofessional.

Cohle: Oh, is that what I'm going for here?

Hart: I just want you to stop saying odd shit, like you "smell a psychosphere," or you're "in someone's faded memory of a town," just stop.

Cohle: Given how long it's taken for me to reconcile my nature, I can't figure I'd forgo it on your account, Marty.

if this is writerly I'm fine with it

I'm guessing the occult angle is a misguided assumption a la WM3.

McCounohay holds his cigarette like a joint

― ilx snitch (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, January 14, 2014 7:32 PM (54 minutes ago)

Yeah, this was distracting, the exaggerated drags on the cig and the way he held it. After a while I started looking for exhaled smoke and not seeing any -- often there were cuts away just as he would have been exhaling. Otherwise, I thought this was really good, looking forward to the rest.

there was a weird bit where he gets ash on the table and swipes it away before the other detectives turn around and see it.

I've been told I hold my cigarettes like a joint, been trying to work on that.

some ppl hold their cig like a dart, too: probably not in texas unless the guy is "weird".

the taxman takes notes, wonder how he "holds em all together" .he draws some of em so i assume conscision must be a part of his system . i'm having a bit too much fun with this, maybe. don't let me down, television!

when i saw antlers i thought: aw no, not again. hannibal got that covered already

the crime scene looked like tumblr art

throw together some antlers and naturey paganish symbols and stuff

Pinterest these pagan ritual twig pyramids

pagan iconography hack

Some spoilers in this but also some interesting speculation:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/01/12/true-detective-premiere/

… man possessed by ungovernable rage…

omg i love this

i wonder if it was set in the 90s just because pizzolatto wanted this retrospective structure, or because he actually wanted it then for some reason. at the very least, that puts it pre-internet, sorta pre-cell phone, pre-computerized crime investigation, which seems like a conspicuous difference from the norm now.

It seems evident that the duration of the case is important what with them arresting the wrong person.

I wonder if, since this show is following the anthology format, that every season is going to be a flashback of sorts to a different time or will a season (if it lasts that long) take place in current time.

“There could be a season that’s much more of a wide-spread conspiracy thriller, a season that’s a small town murder mystery, a season where nobody is murdered and it’s a master criminal versus a master detective,” Pizzolatto said. “Even the title True Detective is meant to be, of course, purposefully somewhat generic. There are deeper indications, the word true can also mean honorable….as long as there is some crime in there.”

It was not made clear if — like FX’s American Horror Story — the anthology would retain a few faces from season to season. For his part, Matthew McConaughey, who stars alongside Woody Harrelson, made clear that this season’s story was “contained,” but Pizzolatto was hesitant to agree with the actor when he claimed, “That’s it.” “We’ll talk later,” said Pizzolatto.

o thanks gukbe, that's good

this new trend of anthology series is pretty cool and a good way to get around the limitations of long-arc storytelling. like how long did prison break go on after they actually broke out of prison? or did they keep sending them back or something?

maybe they went back to break the others out

or life lost meaning on the outside so they started deliberately getting arrested so there would be more prison breaks

I was surprised by (and liked) the minimalism of T-Bone Burnett's score. Maybe I don't listen to the guy's work enough but, yeah.

already lobbying for the next one to be a LA noir.

What is Woody doing with his voice and/or jaw? He's almost got this lipful-of-Skoal underbite thing happening, which makes him sound grittier than he usually does.

Also: Starts in the UK on Sky Atlantic on 22 February at 9pm

Pizzoletti's novel Galveston is good, tough guy crime fiction if you're into that sort of thing

Superb opening episode, although the lasting influence of Fincher's Seven (which came out the year this was set(?) is surprising.

McConaughey and Harrelson make a great pairing though. Woody's reactions to his partner's "one last midnight" pessimist speech during the car drive were priceless.

i felt like them wearing fitted shirts and suits was just a way of not calling attention to the period setting too much...it's like the flipside of American Hustle

rust's suits are fitted, different from the other detectives, hart's seem less so - his suits are different from the other detectives but not nearly as much as rust's. suspect this is meant to indicate something about the characters though if there's anything like janie bryant level coding going on here i have no idea.

rmde at all of you - cool creepy halfway decent show comes on tv & all you want to talk about is maybe their suits were too tight

did I mistake this for I Love Tailoring

anyway i fucking love this & I am on board and ready for the antler weirdness #bringontheantlers

Yeah I'm super excited for tonight

i would say i'm definitely... interested... in seeing how the shirt thing plays out tonight

Script leaked... Big surprise reveal at the end...Harrelson breaks into McCoughnahay's apartment and finds some pleated khakis

*clutches pearls*

McConaughey and Harrelson make a great pairing though. Woody's reactions to his partner's "one last midnight" pessimist speech during the car drive were priceless.

biggest lol of first episode for me was "when you get to my house you're going to need to chill the fuck out"

"the car is now a place for silent reflection"

yeah they have awesome chemistry already

harrelson takes ep1 10-9 for his rendition in the dinner-table scene of a man struggling to keep his own face from exploding

i loved that so much

"you got some pussy on you"

Oh shit R.W. Chambers refs!! I am all over this shit now.

oh man mcconaughey's drunk reflective face

also, HIDTA vision gif, plz

ah! I fucking love this. goddamn it's so unsettling & weird, loving it so much

Those boobs will be remembered alongside Nick Sobotka's girlfriend.

so I think maybe they're trying to pin it on McConaughey or is that too obvious?

At the very end I started thinking about how mind-blowing tv/film is in that a giant crew of people built that burned out church, artfully placing the remaining roof boards and aging everything just so, just for a five minute scene.

I will be disappointed if in the end, McConaughey's character did it in a Keyser Soze-type situation. Ugh.

yea i dont think theyll do that

This is getting way more Twin Peaks than I thought it was going to be

there's obviously another shoe to drop with Rust. My guess is that he's not a straightforward detective but maybe even on another kind of undercover assignment. So many signs seem like he was sent there for a purpose.

signs in teh sky

Sent there to investigate Harrelson's character?

I dunno maybe, stuff like the redacted files and the others calling him a "fed" and the like. I'm reaching obviously.

though I won't be disappointed if it turns out he's been sent to receive the secret truth of the universe.

Def some Twin Peaks parallels, mac v anti-Cooper

The 90's period design on this show is very lax in comparison to the studied era evocation of Mad Men/Boardwalk Empire, but I still like it very much so far.

really could do with more Marky Mark and The Funkybunch imo

I think that if it took place in a more urban area, then you'd get more period design but since a lot of it takes place in rural Louisiana, it feels more out of time and whatnot.

yes what's keeping this show from greatness is lack of lollapalooza refs

xpost otm

Ok people! But it does fail to create a sense of 20 years ago, it absolutely fails for me but w/e.

I haven't been to those Louisiana areas but rural Texas, if you ignore the cars, still looks like 1974.

what are they supposed to do play more candlebox

Woody and Matthew dance to lovefool, make eyes through big aquarium

look all I'm saying is that if they were jamming to walkmans and wearing reebok pumps, it would be much cooler

psst: it's all joeks xelab :)

So far they've used the black angels and 13th floor elevators, holding out hope for butthole surfers in the next episode

next week's episode has already leaked, i think xelab will find his concerns have been addressed, let's just say this show really 'sells the drama' ;)

Or zz top's I got to get paid
xp

is that winky because there are more boobs

or wait, 90s boobs somehow

90s boobs

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Gingrich-Dole.jpg

amirite

lol apparently iamnotrite

anyhow long story short i've seen the rest of the season and

SPOILER

oj is the killer

SPOILER

i am already craving a new episode gahhhh

been nerding out so i thought i'd share a few relevant wikipedia links:

The King in Yellow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow
Carcosa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcosa

shakey mo mentioned Chambers upthread, seems he's already a fan

never heard of him, am v interested!

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/truedetective_zps9d531ea7.gif

YES

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/truedetective2_zps8cacb5a9.gif

:D

Really want to try quaaludes now.

ok fuckit i'm watching ep1 again

is there anything to be made of why we get to see the interviewers with Mcconaughey but all of harrelson's statement is pov direct to camera, no side conversations etc?

i just noticed it this time

and it looks like harrelson is at the same copshop they worked out of

you see the interviewers later i think?

love how you get slight hints of personality from the interviewers--one is rather slick and ingratiating and the other seems a bit more emotional. A nice moment when harrelson says "you're on to something new" and he just gets a cold stare in return before interviewer #1 brings him back on topic.

What was up with that picture in the home of the victim's mother? Mac kept staring at it, at first I thought it was a KKK pic but they cut to it and it looked like ppl in witch hats on horses w a girl standing in front

Also, it's weird there was this huge ass owl staring at them in the church at the end but no one says damn homie look at that owl up there

that picture was really disturbing. And the dolls!

yeah that photo was weird

I just want to say how gorgeous the intro/title sequence is.

otm

I'm on vacation and I figured out how to stream tv to my iPhone - just so the gf and I could watch e02. We caught 01 by pure fluke while flipping channels in a previous hotel.

I'm already bored with Harrelson's home life / affair stuff, such old hat. Casework only pls.

no way. adds shade to the way he's trying to put himself over as the good cop to mcconaughey's "bad cop".

once you know he's *that* kinda cop, you start to wonder what else he's capable of. it's good storytelling

I guess? I had just seen every one of those beats before and they were just so damn tiresme to watch. And the fact that he's remorseless about it tells me that nothing interesting will happen w/ the wife character. Which is too bad, 'cause I like Monaghan a lot.

oh please

He doesn't seem remorseless to me. He wasn't sobbing into his hands in a confessional booth - but he's obviously not proud of himself.

yeah i dont get that from him at all. dude's got a lot of guilt

his whole "you do what you gotta do to do the job" spiel seemed p straightforwardly delivered to me, but we'll see if the remaining eps prove different.

paused to look at that weird photo in ep2. yikes.

sure doesn't look like klan. no robes or hoods - they're like tall skinny pointed hats

hard to make out if they're women or men on the horses

next week's episode has already leaked, i think xelab will find his concerns have been addressed, let's just say this show really 'sells the drama' ;)

― balls, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 02:36 (3 hours ago) Permalink

I mean, you're probably joking but I just ran to my "sites" to see if E3 has actually leaked and nothing :(

loved that beat of mcconaughey taking his own pulse after the lockerroom dustup

no idea wtf it means but i dig it

he talked in the episode about all the violence in his past undercover work and ensuing anxiety, I think he was checking how much the tenseness of the violent moment with Harrelson made his heart race. whether from excitement or anxiousness I took as ambiguous.

haha I just watched episode 2 thinking it was episode 1. Worked very well as a first episode!

apparently they kept owls and hawks on set to scare off songbirds because they were too loud and it was interfering with the filming

If this ever takes off Breaking Bad style expect lots of photos on Facebook of people posing with their Big Hug Mugs.

my god.... those tits

my major problem with smoking in this show is how he lights up in the car with the windows up, scene after scene

paused to look at that weird photo in ep2. yikes.

sure doesn't look like klan. no robes or hoods - they're like tall skinny pointed hats

Pretty sure they're Mardi Gras costumes as seen here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Courir_de_Mardi_Gras_Savoy_La_2010_HRoe_02.JPG/639px-Courir_de_Mardi_Gras_Savoy_La_2010_HRoe_02.JPG

cool yeah that might be it

am i the only one that thinks they saw a huge owl in the rafters of that church tho?

I just want to say how gorgeous the intro/title sequence is.

seems so effing LONG though, and a kind of dated/Fincheresque aesthetic imo (so I guess I don't like it so much)

Those boobs will be remembered alongside Nick Sobotka's girlfriend.

Ha - there was a whole Television Without Pity sub-thread on the Wire board just about that scene.

xpost grrr 'dated'

NO IT'S NOT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT RAGGGH

fair point but I'm just not convinced lol 90s is what they were aiming for in the title sequence

in fact it's more Six Feet Under than Se7en

no i just mean credit sequences are MEANT to be 'long', in the oldentimes they were all like that

that was then grandma

>:(

lady godiva was a freedom rider

git done with the singin and whatnot and git on to the DETECTING is what i say

hbo credit sequences are kinda long, the better to let you know you're not watching tv. boardwalk empire is the only one where i think 'enough already'.

i know the song is probably 'real' or whatever but it's the kind of thing that makes me suspect the show creator wrote it himself, like the firefly theme song, and then yoinked primo real estate to get it played over and over again

always felt the wire's credits were super long too but I guess I don't mind when

a) there's only 13 or less episodes a season (and only what, eight in this?)
b) the show itself is of course commercial free
c) the title sequence changes every season (as it did on the wire and assume it will on an anthology show like this is)
d) the show is largely about soaking in an certain vibe/atmosphere which a languid, high-quality title sequence helps to re-establish each time and
e) they choose a great song like they did here

title song is by a band I love called the handsome family and is from their 2003 album so idk guys

I'm into that song for sure

I remember them, they wrote that classic with the line about jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, can't remember the title but it was great.

xp

"Weightless Again"

That's the one!

The 90's period design on this show is very lax

http://thenewvoice.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/movie_xfiles.jpg

^stick one of these posters on the wall behind Rust's desk, job done.

Love this show. yes there was a giant fucking owl in the rafters. also, wondered about the swirling birds that came out of the field in one scene; was that real or cgi? it was great cgi if so. if real it seemed almost too perfect a moment.

also apparently this is going to be an anthology series ala american horror story, with a different cast and story each year? kind of a bummer since I really like mconoghonghgy in this.

This has a nice 2666 vibe to it

re 90's refs, woody's grumpy father in law grumbled a Clinton reference last night iirc

if real it seemed almost too perfect a moment.

seemed like cgi designed to deliberately mimic the spiral symbol carved on the woman's back

yep.

mimic the spiral symbol and get us deeper into McConaughey's mindset of constantly tripping balls

i had weird dreams about those pointy hat people in the photo

so for now let's just say that the little girl ended up with a travelling pointy hat circus and it was all laughs and lots of fun the end goodnight

http://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/true-detective-seeing-things/

The McConnaissance: An Alternate Reading

caught we are marshall a few weeks ago and was kinda startled by mcconaughey in it. the movie's somewhat standard sports movie overcoming tragedy etc but he definitely wasn't phoning it in there.

its amazing how good this is so far

i would be really happy if this was an anthology series BUT harrelson and mcconaughey stayed and played different characters. that would be awesome.

new york times article about the writer this past weekend said I'm gonna get my wish and next one will be set in and around LA.

tho technically hbo hasn't picked it up yet.

So basically like American Horror Story but with detectives?

That last post was towards s1ocki.

ooh an LA one would be cool. TO LIVE AND DETECT(IVE) IN LA :D

would def be cool if they stuck around, but if this season finishes as strongly as it's started it will be interesting to see who they get--I have to imagine a lot of good actors would be lining up for it.

That last post was towards s1ocki.

― Murgatroid, Tuesday, January 21, 2014 10:47 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes

tho technically hbo hasn't picked it up yet.

True, but considering it's their highest rating premiere since Boardwalk Empire, it's safe to say they'll go again with it.

I expect we'll hear something in the next week as they usually renew after the second or third episode.

this is almost certainly winning some major emmys (though facing breaking bad's final year is a problem obv) so yeah it'll be back, that's a foregone conclusion.

you can certainly call Matthew McC for the best tv actor golden globe already tho

i think it would be cool if next season they were dinosaur detectives and they had to solve dinosaur crimes

heres what that would be like

woody the dinosaur sez 'do you think a dinosaur can love two women?'

mcconaughey the dinosaur sez 'i dont know if dinosaurs can love'

&they're wearing mega tight shirts

nihilism and tight shirts go hand in hand.

dinosaur detective should be set in the late 60s. mcconanagahey can hold his joint like a joint.

yeah but things are pointing more toward the Woody character, not as the perpetrator, but for something. He just gets pwned all over the place in ep 2. His philandering is found out by Cohle (who then threatens to break his wrists), Cohle single handedly extracts the bunny ranch info while Woody waits in the car, both his wife and boobalicious call him out on shit (his wife even calling him a chickenshit in response to which he makes the craven 'even your mom thinks you're a ballbuster' comment) and most notably at the bunny ranch by the proprietor. Constant stream of humiliation has to be taking a toll.

hes def on edge and/or kinda unstable too -- im sure hed normally let his father-in-law get away w/ his old crank bullshit but he calls him on it; plus giving a wad of $ to the young prostitute is being overly personal/sentimental

pro tip: turn on your cables subtitles for these eps -- the writing is so sparkling & also dialogue is often tough to hear clearly

Sure thing gramps

also, get off my lawn

some meaty menswear wide shots in this ep:
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q686/tinyservants/Screenshot2014-01-22at123423PM_zps55e5d32e.png

woody be eatin ass.

ass cake

all I can think of when I see their superior is Murry Wilson

all I can think is hey that's Ben from Veep and then I want to watch Veep again

i really hope woody doesn't wind up as the perpetrator in this because that's been done to death. can't remember where (prime suspect maybe) but it seems too obvious.

i would have eaten her ass too. damn.

imagine next season when he's a dinosaur

it was like they had to cast someone extra special hot for woody to cheat with to make michelle monaghan as the harried housewife seem less silly

this faded memory of a town sure has a lot of pretty ladies in it

so many hot nubile young sauropods

t did occur to me that the drugged-out hookers are a little too photogenic.

i can smell the stegosaur

Hope Fukunaga stays on for a second season. Easily one of the best looking shows on TV.

Same DP as Top of the Lake and Snowtown. I suspect he deserves a fair share of the props on that score.

There’s been talk about doing a second season of the show, but with entirely different actors. Is that something you would be involved with, in some way, or do you feel like you’ve made your mark on True Detective?

FUKUNAGA: I made my mark. I’ll be involved, as a producer, but it’s the next director’s job to bring that to life. I wish them luck. It’s a marathon.

his It movie could be cool though

oh man yeah I would love to see that now, based on TD

i don't get why people think either of the detectives is responsible for the murder? i'd say they end up catching some dude with pressure from governor's office & pastor cousin, have a hunch it isn't the right guy but life goes on, maybe do smth that forces them to stop being "true detectives" and are now being called back cos some other similar murder just happened.

mayeb the show is a secret true blood crossover ("true") and its a vamp thing

mmm i could get into that. and mcconaughey gets off qaaludes and on blood.

speaking of qaaludes, weren't they long off the market by '95?

way long i thought, maybe he was trying to buy expired-ass southern quaaludes

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl)
Posted: January 19, 2014 at 3:26:05 AM
rmde at all of you - cool creepy halfway decent show comes on tv & all you want to talk about is maybe their suits were too tight

did I mistake this for I Love Tailoring

haha otm

tho I did notice the suits but idc

this is dope tho im psyched

*mainlines the secret truths of the universe*

otm re the birds mentioned upthread in the voiceover he talks abt being tuned into the secrets of the universe so I think he saw the symbol in the birds and knows hes gonna find something in the church

I've got Nic Pizzolatto's novel 'Galveston' cued up on my kindle for my long haul flight in a couple of weeks *super excited*

apparently they're already pushing season 2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/sexymollusk/SCALESOFJUSTICE_zpsca5adb23.jpg

my theory its not that they arrested the wrong guy its that it was a group of guys and they only got one of them, hints at this are the arrangement of the naked Barbie being menaced by the four kens in woodys kids room and the existence of the cult task force cause thats what it is a cult

i like it.

i have no idea my head is so full of POINTY HATS WHAT ARE THE POINT HATS seriously though those boobs WHAT IS THE SPIRAL hey owl ANTLERS ANTLERS ANTLERS

I was assuming the pointy hats were some kind of Ku Klan Klan type of thing but maybe not

nah man I paused that scene on my tv, they're just hats, not hoods. you can see faces. the clothes don't look like cloaks even. it's fking weeeeeeird as shit.

and the little girl is just standing there in front of them eeeuuuuaaaggghhh so freaky

creepay

RIGHT?

I think that's why I already love this show so much -- i love creepy shit like that that keeps you awake at night. it's ~exciting~

well, ok so it's a sickness ymmv

well color me sick too haha

ya it def left me feeling a lil spooky

i think it was determined upthread that the picture showed people in mardi gras costumes.

ya makes sense

It's the way it's posed and even the echo of it in the barbies that's most creepy. I wonder if those hats have some sort of forgotten significance.

friend just pointed out that one of the detectives interviewing them is Brother Mouzone from The Wire, that had been driving me nuts I knew I knew that guy.

oh shit good call and the minister was det. lester freeman

I secretly think lester freeman is the guy they're after

aw not lester hes so good

there was some picture of the "yellow king" that kinda looked like him

Yeah remember they zoomed on the crucifix and it had twine tying it all together, I thought the same thing.

dang

he nailed cats to his own church thats weird

the twine kinda looked like the kind used in those tree brush sculptures

Pointy hat figures prominently in chambers' first King in Yellow story iirc

downloading the king in yellow.

I found them bringing in Clarke Peters for that "bit part" more than a little on the suspicious side.

I'm still getting over how the detective is irl Brother Mouzone

still not really convinced this isnt gonna be another creepy serial killer thing... i dunno. not quite onboard yet.

the big reveal at the end of ep 2 of... another picture of the antler thingies!!! left me cold

yeah I find serial killer stuff in general really boring too (I have a whole thread about it!) but hoping this continues to be more Twin Peaks than CSI

more like poo defective

-- ienjoyhotdogs

HBO bringing in part of their acting company doesn't mean much to me - if you're on one (popular) HBO show they'll find a way to keep throwing you work forever.

also, that is how casting works.

there were maybe more unknowns than usual on the wire, because baltimore/simon, but a lot of the working actors they used have been working all over the place since, not just on hbo

Probably filming Treme at the same time too

True, but he's the only one of the supposed randoms so far that I've recognized, which caused him to stick out.

Also Treme ruled and I hope you all watched it.

Still need to see the final season

It's basically one long denouement episode. Not spectacular, but satisfying for sure.

i recognized at least a handful, so i went trawling the imdb page, apparently at least five were on treme, another character was on veep (also hbo), michael harney (who has had a v. active character-part career—earliest run was as mike roberts early on nypd blue) spent a season on deadwood, one dude on boardwalk empire. so more in-house than i thought at first.

and not surprisingly, lots of southerners or people w/ southern parts on their resumes.

Still, having a one-scene guy be one of the leads from both The Wire and Treme is a little glaring. (Though of course the next few weeks may prove I'm an idiot.)

he cld just end up being a significant character

that would be the norm, casting-wise.

feeling in rather ok form and inspired, and that show comes along and it looks like some of the stuff that i am into are also in that show, maybe a bit of projection but not entirely; fictions that make themselves real, ryan nerdage seems upthread seems to indicate there could be more of this.

too drunk to read weird realism :lovecraft and philosophy. hope they talk about hyperstition

and that was my day to do so; just watched Voyage To The Planets half asleep by over heating

Still, having a one-scene guy be one of the leads from both The Wire and Treme is a little glaring. (Though of course the next few weeks may prove I'm an idiot.)

― Simon H., Saturday, January 25, 2014 12:03 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

glaring... what? casting?

yeah, in a Chekhov's Guest Star kinda way. I'm probably just being thick though

this show seems pretty knowing about it's tropes so i remain hopeful it's not standard serial killer fare. fwiw those who've seen the first four eps say it gets weirder.

i think already with the layered narrative it seems like it's going somewhere else than you'd expect if you take the 95 plot by itself.

"I'm not interested in creating disgusting monsters or the most bizarre serial killer ever," Pizzolatto tells TVGuide.com. "My primary concern is always the humanism of the characters. Where the show gains its power for an audience, I think, is in things that aren't investigative at all. It's in two men talking to one another in a car. It's in a man coming over to another man's house for dinner and eating with his family. Those are the things that always interest me.

With the police procedural, I think there are a couple tropes there that audiences are incredibly familiar with. ... [I wanted] to use those things as sort of anchors of familiarity for the audience. Then you use that familiarity to gain their attention and trust and then subvert those conceits... through the characters themselves."

...dun DUN

fuck yeah bring it

final episode is a tired, auster-esque reveal in which a slow pan upwards from an aged typewriter reveals Pizzolatto, his face in sharp relief under an angle-poise lamp, slowly typing out the above confession, antlers bloodily meshed to his head

final shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qweoMJS1DQ8

"Where the show gains its power for an audience, I think, is in things that aren't investigative at all. It's in two men talking to one another in a car"

True. I don't really give a shit whodunnit, tbqh. It's all about the journey...

i just want to see woody j/o mcconaughey (in the car)

Predictions for closing credits tunes:

geto boys "mind playing tricks on me"
butthole surfers "hurdy gurdy man"
zz top "sharp dressed man"

All three at once Zaireeka-style

salt n pepa - shoop (for the first season finale when we get to see woody j/o mcconaughey (in the car)

"I'm not interested in creating disgusting monsters or the most bizarre serial killer ever," Pizzolatto tells TVGuide.com"

Eh, it's a great show and all but you've created a really bizarre serial killer so far dude.

McConaughey gets better with every episode.

i can't take this ratcheting tension, i'm like ragggh just show me the whole thing I wanna know what's gonna happen

but i love it

mcconaughey does some really excellent shit with tiny mannerisms
-not closing his hand over the girl's when he danced
-the way he walks, that tense posture but not beefed up in the shoulders, like he's sleepwalking almost
-those weird expressive mouth sounds he makes in the interview room

he's so good i can't take it

and that beer can shit

- you mowed my lawn?
- it needed mowin'

it's all about the drawl, he's holding some of those vowels so long he's practically singing.

otm

well that was a way to end it.

really the weirdest thing about this show is all the cigarette smoking in cars with the windows down

or rather, windows up.

I'm guessing final shot = dude cooking meth.

finally we see the real impact of breaking bad on the language of tv-making

that last shot was freak city

loved the delivery of that last line too.

cooking meth I buy, tho not sure what use a machete is in that context.

the machete keeps jesse pinkman in line

keep feeling like all off-handed talk about hurricanes--or hurricanes as these historical punctuation marks--is foreshadowing but most likely it's just a gulf coast thing.

so obsessed with this show - McConaughey is hypnotic.

yeah he's great. the character is great. the excited look on his date's face when he showed up was funny.

don't know if it's the makeup or lighting but the still-handsome but harrowed look he has is perfect.

the difference between old him and young him, man that is a killer makeup job

So I don't get it - they were driving in the car determinedly in the penultimate scene, then the cut to the dude. Is that supposed to be the boyfriend of the other chick? Did they already get his address?

i'm starting to wonder about the makeup. they're gonna be spending a LOT of time acting 15 years younger. something artificially worn in the faces. when cohle was unshirted over at hart's house w/ the mower something about his arms just seemed too… gnarled.

liked woody's performance—a lot of instability in his transparent lunges at prevaricating, trying to pretend to a desperation that it seems like he really is too indifferent/self-absorbed to sustain. but then when he's with cohle, he makes him so MAD that all the deadness that he's built up inside him is projected out onto cohle

yes otm

seems like with MM they split the difference and made him look younger than he really does in the flashbacks and older in the present day.

good stuff, j! otm

I'm wondering what's supposed to have happened in the intervening 15 years - Woody's obviously moved up in the world, looking clean and sharp in his fancy suit. Mac by contrast is a total mess. so professional lives diverged significantly for some reason.

in the first episode they mention that Rust went "off the grid" for 8 years.

also: have they even told Woody's character about the lake charles murder?

yeah modern day MM is remembering the compound as vietnam-like and the dude as a monster so that is what we are shown but w/in the bounds of the earlier action, i dont think they know where he lives yet, lil confusing

xp i feel like i haven't seen that in a while, real hatred, a lot of the shows i watch, even when there is some intelligible reason for one character to hate another, it's generally kind of a morally justifiable hatred, but when cohle says to hart's wife that hart -hates- him he's right, it's just like straight up hate, and they haven't known each other long, and cohle hasn't really done anything, not anything like irrevocable, he hasn't -acted- against hart, they've just had these clashes of personality and a couple of altercations, but already that fateful first real conversation in the car has made hart into someone who is becoming dominated by hatred

thinking that rust works low-level/-stakes security now or something - he said that he works 4 days a wk and lives behind a bar -- this was in relation to needing to get beerz to start drinking @ noon on a thurs

I think in first episode woody said he had a security consulting business now or something

Lol the ending

All of the dreamlike fading in and out is really twin peaksy

ladies and gentlemen your new nightmare wears a gasmask and y-fronts and carries a machete

xps Hart hates Cohle because he secretly wishes he could be that open about his fucked-upness.

"Girls always know before boys.... because they have to." so otm and so heartbreaking at the same time.

def. a lot of good dialogue in this.

every back-and-forth line they had outside the tent revival was hilarious.

"you have a problem with doubt"
"I doubt that"
lol

yeah they're both pretty good with quippy oneliners

lol yeah love that whole conversation, and the fact that they were having it at a banh mi shack. xp

when cohle says to hart's wife that hart -hates- him he's right, it's just like straight up hate, and they haven't known each other long, and cohle hasn't really done anything, not anything like irrevocable, he hasn't -acted- against hart, they've just had these clashes of personality and a couple of altercations, but already that fateful first real conversation in the car has made hart into someone who is becoming dominated by hatred

if you're referring to the phone call he didn't say that Cohle hated him, he said Steve Geraci did

say that Hart hated him i mean

oh really?? i will have to rewatch! oh well

The final shot of Ledoux (assuming that's him) reminded me of that old Bigfoot footage they used to show on In Search Of, right down to the freeze frame mid-stride as he looks in the camera's direction. So creepy.

godammit was just reminded that this isn't on next week

aw. now sad.

two muthafuckin weeks

jerks

That's ridiculous. Because of the Super Bowl I suppose.

pizzolatto says "Plague Doctors" inspired the look of the gas mask fella:
http://www.delpiano.com/carnival/html/medico_peste.html

yikes

Sound design on this episode was incredible. Those of you watching on laptops please use headphones!

Excited for next episode!

Loved how Woody kept pouring the beer back and forth

I'm sure an animated GIF jockey out in TumblrLand has made a loop of Mac's "The world needs bad men..." line w/cigarette lighting.

also: have they even told Woody's character about the lake charles murder?

― ryan, Monday, January 27, 2014 5:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah and they showed him the picture of the crime scene right?

that speech at the end is so haunting

last show that was on tv that I ever felt compelled to rewatch each episode every week was Twin Peaks. and now True Detective.
love! this show!

oh I guess they just showed Cohle the photo... Maybe we're supposed to assume both saw it.

I'll def rewatch all three of these that have aired in the week off. Show deserves it.

The final shot of Ledoux (assuming that's him) reminded me of that old Bigfoot footage they used to show on In Search Of

First thing I thought of:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3e4hyE6HUcA/UItP3pgYg4I/AAAAAAAAKXs/auJ5kMX_eZU/s640/safe.jpg

(or, I guess with proper context):

http://neongrandpa.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/url.jpeg

So these young detectives are trying to pin the murders on Cohle, right?

well if they are that beerterview ain't gonna stand up for shit

beerterview lol

I still can't figure out exactly what they're up to other than investigating the lake charles murder. the "meaningful" glances exchanged--and the implications of off screen discussions between them--are so intriguing. the one who seems to be in charge is doing some brilliant acting. both are, in fact.

Marty has had to literally defend Cohle several times already. I'm guessing he will have to solve the real mystery after Cohle is accused of being the monster and can't be bothered to deny it.

I don't know anything about detective work but there's sure no way they'd show the main suspect a photograph of the crime scene, surely?

re: Nude Bane, the villain unveiled at the conclusion of this episode, i am definitely glad that he's introduced in the shadow of existing, retro-active suspicion over his guilt - that he can be as creepy or as perfect as possible while still also riding on our suspicion that he was too easy a catch, just some generally creepy guy, not the actual real deal. he'll presumably have the dna for ~classic creepy noir drama killer~, but kinda acknowledging that and undercutting it gives them a way to fool with it less cloyingly.

i still think this is a pretty weird show, like a lot of it's kinda trashy - every slow, lingering drive-by of a fetishistically hick-ish/pornographically socioeconomically deprived cast of characters feels super indulgent - but mcconaughey is magnetic. & woody harrelson's little boy face, after his lawn got mowed, was his first moment of credibility, so far, i think.

woody's or "marty's"?

I agree for sure that there's some indulgence but I've thought that the world must sometimes appear that way to a cop. everyone shifty and desperate and impoverished and just sorta crushed and controlled by forces around them. noir at it's finest, eh?

they definitely capture something of what the rural gulf coast feels like. eating outside at the banh mi shack was a nice touch.

that dude mowing the lawn looked like he'd seen a thing or two

fwiw I thot Rust's musing on "what is owed between us for our mutual illusions" while the camera lingers over a table filled with photographs of dead women is definitely a cake and eating it too moment but it was a bracing moment of self-consciousness anyway.

right, right

I agree for sure that there's some indulgence but I've thought that the world must sometimes appear that way to a cop. everyone shifty and desperate and impoverished and just sorta crushed and controlled by forces around them. noir at it's finest, eh?

this is really interesting!

i think for me i just feel somewhat wearied by noir as salad dressing, just because it's common & seems often to be a kind of empty discharge of tropes; like it's very much in the vernacular now to have the kinda cool guy-driving-girl's-head-on-shoulder shot, or the guy who can smoke and talk at the same time or whatever, & in general i think it's lost some lustre; after the first episode of this, top of the lake - which i didn't love but liked - felt like a smarter interpretation of this, for covering similar terrain but in a way that felt less reflexively familiar. but but but!, that was after the first ep, & i think the thing it's doing with noir, now, is improved - mapping this kind of anomie and depression onto that traditional laconic male. i like the idea of those shots being charged with p-o-v value, but i feel like it's kinda risky just given the general low-hanging-fruit status of the sort of imagery they're playing with, the environment they're in; i'm more impressed seeing the desolation of mcdonalds and box stores than i am beautifully decaying shacks & dustbowl-dressed kids, but that's maybe asking for a different show entirely.

two important notes on this episode, harrelson's daughter's exercise book looked like a coffee table book of sleeve design from '90s college rock albums, & the folder mcconaughey was handling at the end looked like photography choices for my bloody valentine ep covers. & yeah it was harrelson's little-boy-face i meant, like there was a charm to seeing him from a couple of different angles this ep.

Found out that the writer was formerly an academic and it's all making sense now.

Which is fine with me, btw. I love Milch after all. It's easy to balk at the "cops create a narrative" line, etc but I'm into it.

ha ha, he found a way to serialise a rejected philosophy thesis piecemeal

yeah he's totally living the disillusioned academic dream. (I say that as one. Can't wait for my mother to find this out and ask why I don't write a tv show for HBO.)

i certainly understand the exhaustion with some of the tropes this show deploys, but i can't help hear a little bart simpson voice in my head saying "co-oool" at some of it. hopefully they can take it in a direction that satisfies both of us.

the Harrelson stuff is almost bewilderingly conventional but it works when he's being interviewed in the present day talking about family and whatnot. Also he's great at it and there's some awesome b00bage to alleviate the cliches.

no sure
i am just being picky - this is a detective show, working with probably-not-even-especially-mined-to-death material/tropes/scenery is quite defensible, i think; i just think some of this kind of representation & showcasing has baggage. i never saw that detroit-set amc show but i imagine this is doing somewhat better, at least in seemingly deviating from too pat an antihero arc, or else - like i was saying about the nude bane guy - overlaying additional angles on top of that. i'll be pretty satisfied if it gets more and more sprawly. & i am not dying to rewatch these eps, but i do think some of the novelistic soliloquies (cf what is owed between us for our mutual illusions) would benefit from me paying closer attention, like they're a nice focus for the show.

the sex with the actress who plays his wife - who, re: whoever talked about the pains they were going to to make her seem somehow Plain & Put-Upon: otm - felt kinda digressive but i really bought the moment of like, pained tenderness beforehand. that set-up - her having to get him to talk to the kids, the kids still needing the almost imperceptible nod from mom to go through to the other room - isn't anything new but it's pretty well done, i think, harrelson as just kinda crappy increasingly solipsistic dad guy.

it does seem like theyre setting up his daughters to be likely scarred/damaged in the modern day but idk maybe that is just needlessly extrapolating

I rolled my eyes at the sex scene at first, but I loved the fade to Harrelson looking off into the middle distance, thinking "...shit."

dun dun DUN

http://i.imgur.com/ZUbHlHt.png

no man the daughter is playing drums in a punk trio & there is a kinda cruder reenvisaging of her schoolbook doodling on the sleeve of their ltd-run cassette single WONT COP

ha
!!

i like the way harrelson is so good at portraying the guy who believes 100% in what he says when it's coming out of his mouth, as much as he believes in his right to make himself happy, fuck the consequences

the way I look at it he's playing a darker, hardboiled version of sam the bartender, but I still think of him that way and it makes it much more creepy

REALLY hope kelsey grammer appears in this series

lol

kelsey grammer as both halves of an LA detective duo is my dream scenario for true detective s02

I'm wondering what's supposed to have happened in the intervening 15 years - Woody's obviously moved up in the world, looking clean and sharp in his fancy suit. Mac by contrast is a total mess. so professional lives diverged significantly for some reason.

There's some heavy hints that at some point Maggie Hart has an affair with Rust, no? They seem to connect with each other, as shown in the telephone scene in this episode, and the scene where Cohle mowed the Harts' lawn. Also, in the first episode Woody says something to the effect that, despite everything that happened, he doesn't hold a grudge against Rust... I don't think he'd say something like that if all that came between them were the sort of philosophical difference seen so far, it must be something more personal, and an affair seems like the most likely explanation Also, in this episode, when Martin is talking about family, he looks at his ring finger, where there's no ring anymore. (Though obviously their divorce is mostly Martin's own fault.)

I'm mostly liking this series so far, but I gotta wonder, are we supposed to agree with Rust Cohle's nihilism? The amount of time given to his speeches, as well all the visual and narrative emphasis of social decay, and the Lynchian "evil hiding behind conformity" element, certainly make it feel like the writer and director want us to feel like he's "right". But really, despite the (admittedly well-crafted) artistry they present his ideas through, basically it's just philosophy freshman nihilism, not particularly compelling at all. Though in this episode it felt like, for the first time, they tried to undermine Cohle's ramblings a bit, when Martin started asking what personal reasons Rust might have for his cynicism during the preacher's sermon... It felt like he hit a spot there, though then they undermined it by showing what a selfish asshole and hypocrite Martin is, despite all his talk of moral integrity and community values. But I hope they don't end up making Rust into some kind of mad prophet, I like the interplay between him and Marty where his bullshit gets deflated every once in a while.

Also, it certainly seems like the two cops investigating the case in 2012 suspect Cohle is somehow involved in the murders. They're asking him questions about his past that seem to have nothing to do with the actual case Cohle and Hart were investigating, and when they're interviewing Hart, they seem to be much more interested in his partner than Hart himself.

Btw, if there's some reason the "present day" scenes are set in 2012, and not in 2013 or 2014, which would seem more logical? Hurricanes seem to factor into the plot a lot, was there some big hurricane in Louisiana in 2012 that they might use later on?

He might have written it in 2012 and counted back 15 years (which is why Andrew is still in recent memory)

It's 17 years between 1995 and 2012, though. But yeah, that might explain it.

They also seem to hint that the Christian cult folks are somehow involved in the murders, right? The preacher guy mentions he studied under someone called Tuttle, and it's revealed then Rianne Olivier (the earlier victim who had supposedly drowned) studied in a Christian school founded by this same Tuttle. That can't be coicidence, I'm betting Tuttle will show up in the next ep. And if there are more people involved, that would explain why there's a new killing in 2012 even though they caught Reggie Ledoux in 1995. Though it doesn't explain why there's a 17 year gap between the murders, but maybe these folks are just good at covering their traces?

Hurricanes seem to factor into the plot a lot, was there some big hurricane in Louisiana in 2012 that they might use later on?

the big storm in 2012 was isaac, it caused some flooding in rural areas and knocked out power for a while (i was in the very hot and humid dark for 6 days).

but it's not a storm that means anything to anyone outside of the gulf south. hurricane andrew, which has been repeatedly referenced, had and has a much greater resonance with americans in general, a la katrina.

also: have they even told Woody's character about the lake charles murder?

― ryan, Monday, January 27, 2014 12:42 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no thats the funny part, mcconaughey figured it out before the interview and woodys only gotten as far as "you guys are up to somethin"

are we supposed to agree with Rust Cohle's nihilism? The amount of time given to his speeches, as well all the visual and narrative emphasis of social decay, and the Lynchian "evil hiding behind conformity" element, certainly make it feel like the writer and director want us to feel like he's "right".

yes, this character's dark view of the world, which seems to be a direct result of his life falling apart after the death of a young child, is totally rational, you are meant to agree with it

hah hes such a redditor

also, they've already established that they were partners for 7 years following the original case, so whatever falling out they had probably wouldn't be the immediate aftermath of what we see happening in '95

all he's really said is that there's no such thing as a self, you live in confusion, misery, and illusion until you die without knowing what anything meant, and religion is a story we tell ourselves so we feel better about it all. all pretty venerable and cogent beliefs imo. whether you agree or not it's not exactly nonsense or silly things to believe.

what was the point of the v. overt camera-doubling going on in the present-day scenes, that was only broken halfway through the first episode when cohle demands his cheeseburger and sixer?

i guess i didn't notice/realize the first time around that when they showed that, it explained the odd camera angle of the initial interview scenes, since we were being shown what the on-table digital cameras were recording. but that does make it kind of seem like more than a professional consult, less than an interrogation that's going on, whatever it is.

when they switch from room to room the questioning detectives' sides of the table are flipped, but maybe that's just sensible shot setup.

that first car convo still cracks me the fuck up.

also the credits show things we haven't seen yet

including some ASS

There's a whole show within a show going on with the other two detectives. the older one has the blankness of a psychoanalyst.

'but we're not here to talk about me'

yeah he's a total cypher - even his facial expressions seem 100% measured and deliberate

yes. seems totally in control.

took me way too long to realize the older 2012 detective was brother mouzone, but it's weirdly informed what i think of his character now.

They also seem to hint that the Christian cult folks are somehow involved in the murders, right? The preacher guy mentions he studied under someone called Tuttle, and it's revealed then Rianne Olivier (the earlier victim who had supposedly drowned) studied in a Christian school founded by this same Tuttle. That can't be coicidence, I'm betting Tuttle will show up in the next ep.

Tuttle has shown up already - he's the Christian evangelist who's a brother or cousin or something to the state governor. He was the one who ordered the police to set up an anti-Christian crime taskforce, the one that's supposed to take over the case from Cohle and Hart.

The second this is out on DVD I'm buying it

Oh shit brother mouzone! lol

Just rewatched all three episodes with the gf and noticed all the Tuttle connections.

this show is so self-serious and humourless i find it really hard to pay attention to, what is it that you guys like so much about it

big mac

has cool vibes

hilarious nihilism, good actin, curious storytelling structure, gratuitous nudity, lots of drivin from place to place, experiment in auteurist production

i like watching woody intimidate randos a lot

i like it cause im so self-serious and humourless

howd the daughter learn to draw naked mans w masks

it's actually pretty funny

"i'm just a regular-type dude with a big-ass dick"

this show is pretty totally hilarious

Yeah I don't find it humorless. Most of the humor comes from Harrelson and McConaughey' playing off of each other but it's definitely there.

I'd love to know if the "you don't mow another guy's lawn" stuff in the last episode was a Kingpin reference. I'm going to choose to believe it anyway

I don't love the show yet, something about it hasn't quite clicked but I still find each episode zooms by; maybe it's just that it exudes that vibe of creeping dread/impending doom really well.

Have a nagging fear though that the payoff won't arrive and in retrospect it will all seem kinda all hat, no cattle.

woody's line about shitting in someone's sunroof made me lol.

yeah there's "serious tv" vibes but it sorta earns it through the acting and writing--it's very rich for re-watching too. the aforementioned interactions between the interviewing detectives, little throwaway lines or gestures.

i feel like i keep looking out the window and seeing raylan and his buddies having fun one train over

that's just your programming

it's like a magic eye picture - you just gotta relax your eyes and the humor will jump right out at you

and I like kinda gloomy swampy things

doesn't feel as IMPORTANT TV IMPORTANT TV as even the last season of Breaking Bad to me - at it's core this is (thus far) still swamp noir, just with McConaughey's permafried ramblings on the top.

but I don't think Justified is that much fun post-Mags tbh

what was important about breaking bad

had gravitas, world was watching with great expectations

Comparing this to the current Justified season, WH/MM are kicking Raylan's ass.

It is true that this season of Justified is getting off to a slow start. But I won't hear any bitching about any of the first 4 seasons.

Justified always gets off to a slow start

hi im mike rappaport

Oh shit brother mouzone! lol

― calstars, Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:53 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also the use of 'shitbird' which afaik no one ever says outside The Wire

It's in heavy rotation on my dad's side of the family.

i've noticed a lot of shout outs to the Wire/Homicide...
having just finished the Homicide book (it's awesome), I noticed a lot coming out of their Sergeant when he was yelling at them: referring to it as a "whodunnit" and telling them that after a week without a suspect things get a lot harder – all straight out of homicide.

also: sheeeeeeeit

this is some of the most consistently hilarious shit on tv and if you can't see it just bc it's not a "comedy" i can't help you

well thanks for trying anyway

I don't get how anyone could think this show is humorless

i dont get how anyone cant see what slocki is talking about, its not that the show isnt funny at times, its that its ponderous and serious about itself

doesnt really bother me tho, its so tite anyway

it feels a lot like being lectured by a pretentious 15-year-old

huh? what are we being lectured about in this case?

the bleakness of the universe d00d

I think those soliloquies are sorta cool and, maybe I'm off, but sorta daring for tv? maybe not. but they are well written and delivered and the show clearly is keeping an objective eye on them.

but then my inner 15 year old devotee of cioran and Schopenhauer et all is alive and well. a certain sort of well-expressed nihilism has a weird seductive quality about it.

it's weird that some people itt think Rust's dialogue is a direct mouthpiece for the show's viewpoint. he's a character in the show.

the show doesnt agree w rusts pov totally but it def thinks the world is ruff rugged and raw

tbf the world is pretty ruff rugged and raw

feel like both cops' worldview are clearly depicted as self-serving and hypocritical

but maybe everything is self-serving and hypocritical makes u think

it's weird that some people itt think Rust's dialogue is a direct mouthpiece for the show's viewpoint. he's a character in the show.

i got the same thing.

they give him an unusually large amount of time to air his views and elaborate at length without response especially in the present-day interview portions and his character hasn't really been undermined as a hypocrite in the same way woody's has is so it's not unreasonable to interpret that as some sort of implicit endorsement

having said all that there's a lot of episodes left for that dynamic to change

yeah clearly they're letting Rust set the tone in a lot of ways, closing episodes with moody music underneath his monologues and all, and he may be ultimately vindicated as having been wise all along, but again, he's a character within the show with personal tragedy giving context to how he sees things.

the show is moody, its edgy, theres a lot of shots that linger on like a tire swing that is broken

also there a bunch of shit going on with the depth of field that i feel like is prob done in post and looks weird and fake

i dont think he is the voice of the show, either way its a bit jr high, even if the author doesnt agree, he sure is flexing those muscles a lot in this show

its funny tho the first time mcH starts ranting woody tells him to shut it

he is v annoying, p sure the show knows abt that

the main characters are both p lame dudes but also interesting

one reason Cohle's POV comes across more strongly is that his ideas and beliefs in 2012 are much the same as the ones he expresses in 1995, while 2012 Hart seems to be not quite the same guy as 1995 Hart

we watched all three episodes while snowbound this week and could not have had a better time

i think that cohle's situation in 2012 should have a lot to do with how you read his point of view

I don't think it's useful to speculate until we know why Rust went off the grid and became the way he is in 2012.

i'll say right now i'm not gonna write this show off or anything, it often takes me a while to cotton to a show (see mad men for instance), but so far i do find it a bit plodding, the procedural stuff just hasnt hooked me

(so i'm lookin for stuff to complain about)

itchin ta tussle

Show is so less ponderous than we're making it out to be

disagree ponderous levels calibrated within acceptable tolerances

ahem than *I'M* making it out to be

its way ponderous and self-impressed but i feel like thats pretty standard for noirish procedural stuff, its as much a part of the genre as the murders, so im basically okay with it, and get more okay w/ it w/ every ep

so far i think we're "supposed" to like russ more than the other guy, and think hes smarter, but the show (to me at least) has been good at undercutting his most pretentious and ponderous bullshit and not treating it as gospel

Ya - just before the two cops leave the room (for whatever reason) Rust is gong on about the arrogance of religious folks and he comes off as obnoxious in really low brow kind of way. Way different than his normal broody musing stile.

max otm, and i think that the show is pretty directly addressing all that. it's funny that marty comes across as the agnostic, the one worried about "bending the narrative," while rust seems closer to a fanatic (especially in the interview). and then rust's description of a preacher as someone who "encourages your capacity for illusion and then tells you it's a virtue." there's a bit where he locks eyes with the younger detective while talking about looking at photographs of dead girls and says "you ever done that? huh?" that reminds me of being accosted somewhere by someone *not well* who's decided to tell you something very important. a scary intensity in his eyes in that scene that contrasts a lot with younger cool albert camus rust.

i think that idea of "narrative" will come back. rust is describing the rules of a noir universe, and so he seems to think he's in that kinda story.

turns out Rust wasn't in undercover he was just a smooth ladies man and he made a bet with magazine columnist Kate Hudson that he couldn't act like an alcoholic nihilist and still get a girl only when he starts to succeed she'll realise she's in love with him and try to sabotage it.

lmao gukbe

spoilers

aw man way to ruin it for me gukbe

When Rust talks about his undercover work and "those files are still sealed, huh," I assumed he was full of shit and/or delusional.

Natalie Zea ‏@nataliezea 2h

I'd like to welcome Michelle Monaghan to the "Underwritten Wife Character on an Otherwise Brilliant TV Show" club. #TrueDetective

haha dang

lagoon on fire itt

yeah that zea tweet is great

kind of misleading abt her following role tho since that makes it seem like the rest of the show is not lo-grade garbage

More about Justified than the Following?

yeah i assumed Justified too, especially since she just stopped being part of the main cast a while back

haha her twitter bio: "I love kitty katz. I also play ex-wives on JUSTIFIED and THE FOLLOWING"

She/that is awesome, though I do think they tried to improve the character in s3. The trouble with that show is that the non-Raylan and Boyd characters pretty much all get the shaft.

yeah to an extent decrying supporting characters in a non-ensemble show as 'underwritten' is a little off. but Sons of Anarchy has made me feel like okay all these macho FX shows actually can have substantial, compelling roles for actresses, they just usually don't.

I feel like they've done an OK job actually for the most part - SOA, Damages, The Bridge, The Americans.

Not to mention the hugely female-centric (though awful) recent season of AHS.

as atonement, next season should be an extended riff on the long goodbye with a woman in the Elliot Gould role.

3 episodes in seems a lil early to claim a secondary character is underwritten. I mean the black detectives are pretty underwritten too at this point.

or claim its brilliant

\:(

Seems clear this is more a really long movie than a tv series -- seems ok to take notes, but a waste of time to write and rewrite the review after every 1/8th of the film.

u mean rewrite the 'narrative'...???

so sad this isn't on tonight

Thought they were going to repeat the first 3 episodes this week, missed the first one.

Loving this too, so far. But re guessing at culprit, my first thoughts are/ were, Tuomas OTM. My first knee-jerk guess, after the first or second episode: likely has something to do with the Christian conservative politician, Tuttle.

Which would be disappointing, only because so predictable. After all, any given Law & Order or CSI ep, you know the bad guy's going to be the Christian/ Republican/ politician (in this case it might be a trifecta). Most of the characters in this show (including minor parts) are portrayed as 3-dimensionally complex (including Dora's mother, and the convict boyfriend), the only exception portrayed as repellent in a simplistic way is the powerful Christian preacher/ politician (who showed up at the office going on about a war against Christians). Especially from Cohle's POV (with whom, philosophically, I most identify)-- a POV which so far seems privileged, yet which (to the show's credit) is still shown as unreliable. (That's an interesting conversation in this thread-- to what extent Cohle's POV represents the show's POV, and to what extent it doesn't.)

The fact that Cohle, mid-interview with lawnmower guy-- not done, by a long shot-- is interrupted and called away by Hart, just then-- seems like a big ol' red flag, planted right there. Like, that's where the ill-fated swerve occurred.

Got nothing against it, if it's done in an interesting way. Or if Tuttle's the culprit, but the story's not mostly about that. Or if Tuttle's kind of a side/ incidental/ circumstantial villain (interfering with the investigation)-- most likely.

Re the more prima facie signposting, I do think it's interesting that the interviewers let Cohle in on a lot more information than Hart. We're meant to think that Cohle is the suspect; yet (for some reason) they're keeping Hart much more in the dark.

Also (Tuomas OTM) I early on reckoned the Cohle/ Hart estrangement had something to do with Hart's wife (e.g. a possible affair with Hart).

Correction, a possible affair with Cohle.

Hart has antlers in his name. Just putting that out there.

god this thread is going to eat itself alive by the time they air episode 4

i'll say right now i'm not gonna write this show off or anything, it often takes me a while to cotton to a show (see mad men for instance), but so far i do find it a bit plodding, the procedural stuff just hasnt hooked me

― socki (s1ocki), 31. tammikuuta 2014 22:45

So far the procedural stuff has been the weakest part of the show... First three episodes are all structured like this: 50 minutes of Cohle and Hart driving around in search of clues and arguing about their philosophies + some Hart family drama and Cohle angst on the side, then during the last 5 or 10 minutes they find a crucial clue, which becomes the cliffhanger for the next episode. So far the Cohle/Hart dynamic has been interesting and even fun to watch, but I hope the actual crime plot starts rolling a bit faster now, I'm not sure I want to spend 5 more episodes watching them smoke and argue in cars.

specially from Cohle's POV (with whom, philosophically, I most identify)-- a POV which so far seems privileged, yet which (to the show's credit) is still shown as unreliable. (That's an interesting conversation in this thread-- to what extent Cohle's POV represents the show's POV, and to what extent it doesn't.)

This was the point I was trying to make upthread: the show certainly portrays Cohle's philosophy as a subjective thing, justified by his life experiences, but it still privileges his point of view above anything else. The visual focus on corruption and desolation, the Twin Peaksian theme of small towns hiding terrible thing beneath neat surfaces, the way Hart's moralist counterpoints to Cohle are undermined by showing him to be a hypocrite, the way the two 2012 detectives allow Cohle to speechify, never interrupting him or arguing against his views... All this certainly makes it seem like Cohle's POV is, if not the correct, then at least the most correct one, while any alternatives are given far less support. Someone pointed out that the way Cohle's life has turned out by 2012 should be an indication of the show not supporting his POV, but I'd argue that so far the 2012 Cohle has been presented as some sort of a misunderstood prophet (one who has seen the truth and doesn't give a fuck whether or not anyone agrees with him), and such prophet's of course are expected to have a hard life... Whereas the 2012 Hart, while superficially far more successful, is made into a slimier character, still spouting the same hypocritical platitudes he did 17 years ago.

And yeah, of any course show is allowed to have its own philosophy, but my point was merely that Cohle's POV isn't particularly compelling or radical, it's freshman level nihilism, so I hope TD either throws a curveball and totally undermines his views, or at least focuses a bit less on his beardo-poetic "truths" about the human condition, otherwise it'll be tedious to watch that shit for 5 more hours.

Got nothing against it, if it's done in an interesting way. Or if Tuttle's the culprit, but the story's not mostly about that. Or if Tuttle's kind of a side/ incidental/ circumstantial villain (interfering with the investigation)-- most likely.

My theory is that the killers (or killer) were inspired by Tuttle, or were his followers, but Tuttle has nothing to do with the actual murders... However, he is aware (or at least suspects) that the killers are members of his own flock, the revelation of which would hurt his reputation, which is why he tries to put a lid the whole affair by having his own special team investigate the crimes instead of Cohle & Hart. Yeah, it sounds a bit cliched, but at least the social/political aspects are more interesting than in the typical "solitary occultist serial killer" plot, which is no less cliched in itself.

And speaking of occultism, I thought it was a bit weird that Cohle, despite being a super-clever crime analyst with an interest in getting inside the killer's head, doesn't pursue the "King in Yellow" lead any further... He's shown to be an educated man, you'd think he would've figured out what it refers to, or at least tried to investigate the whole thing.

"of any course show" = "of course any show"

Nic Pizzolatto ‏@nicpizzolatto Jan 22
Ep 1-3 = Act One. Ep 4-6 = Act Two. Ep 7 & 8 = Act Three. #TrueDetective

my god... im in total agreement with tuomas

i dunno it's a pretty "freshman level" take on what we've seen so far.

what would the phd take be on this somber cop show

I'm not sure I want to spend 5 more episodes watching them smoke and argue in cars.

this is the best part of the show, fyi

the car is for silent reflection now anyways.

i can't really argue if anyone has a problem with the genre trappings--or if they think the genre trappings aren't terribly well done or fresh.

but the more i think about this show, the more interesting a character Marty becomes. on the other hand, I dont think there's anything freshman about Rust. yeah it's pretty standard nihilism, but im not sure there's a radial way to present that case, and it's a very old case, against life, against humanism or religion. Rust has a system, even a meaningful system, for interpreting his world--and i think the show (and the other detectives!) is/are very pointedly allowing him to lay it out for us: Rust thinks that death is more true than life.

Marty, also pointedly, doesn't have a system. And while this is a virtue in many respects the show seems to suggest that it leaves him adrift--it's the very thing that allows him to be so self-serving and hypocritical. i think it's interesting that often his problem with Rust isn't the content of what he is saying but the social faux pas of saying it out loud. and it's perhaps the source of that emptiness that j. very eloquently pointed out way upthread--he even has to perform his anguish!

i have no idea where any of this is going, but i think it's pretty fascinating so far.

anyway, to think that Rust is getting to dominate or dictate the meaning of the show seems to miss a whole lot of signals that are putting his beliefs in context--but then that's been said 100 times on this thread already. this doesn't have to mean that Rust is somehow *wrong* about his metaphysics. the show doesn't really have to take a position on that.

Rust has a system, even a meaningful system, for interpreting his world--and i think the show (and the other detectives!) is/are very pointedly allowing him to lay it out for us: Rust thinks that death is more true than life.

Well yeah, but the glaring holes in a system like this can be pointed out with a few simple questions, even thoug Hart seems not to have figured out to ask them. Like, if Cohle sees morality as a pointless construct, why is he working as a cop, and acting (as far as we can see) according to high moral standards (certainly higher than his partner)? If he feels death is the only answer, and (as he tries to say in his long monologue) at their dying moment people actually embrace it, why does he bother going after killers to bring them to justice? If he thinks death is "more true" than life, why doesn't he simply kill himself? Yet even after 17 years, we see him still going on, clinging on to (what seems to be) a rather grey and unexciting existence. That's what I mean by saying this philosophical angle isn't particularly compelling. Cohle's aphorisms may sound cool at first, because they're written nicely and they're delivered by a good actor, but if you stop to think about it for a bit, it's just pointless, groundless intellectual posing. (And I'm still hoping it'll be revealed as such, but who knows, maybe the writer actually thinks hes being awfully deep here?)

he directly answers all that in the very first episode. it's his "programming"--he's denying the very selfhood one would require to make the self-willed decisions you are describing.

But in the 2012 he's clearly gotten over this programming, yet he still goes on living... And what's the difference between this "programming" and morality in the first place?

doesn't pursue the "King in Yellow" lead any further

this was pre-internet. and that book is pretty obscure.

If he thinks death is "more true" than life, why doesn't he simply kill himself?

he answers this question directly in one scene.

hard to believe even from what we know so far that 2012 cohle has 'gotten over' anything

he seems depressed

maybe it's because tuomas thinks he's sophomoric

hes thinks hes freshmonic fwiw

personally i think 'psychosphere' is a word a person would use who had been around a little, really gotten into the college life, started to leave childish things behind

maybe he was one if those kids who took "college level classes"

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/02/02/writer-nic-pizzolatto-on-thomas-ligotti-and-the-weird-secrets-of-true-detective/

The philosophy Cohle promotes in the show’s earliest episodes is a kind of anti-natalist nihilism, and in that regard all cats should be unbagged: “Confessions of an Antinatalist,” “Nihil Unbound,” “In the Dust of this Planet,” “Better to Have Never Been,” and lots of Cioran were all on the reading list. This is before I came out to Hollywood, but I knew that in my next work I would have a detective who was (or thought he was) a nihilist. I’d already been reading E.M. Cioran for years and consider him one of my all-time favorite and, oddly, most nourishing writers. As an aphorist, Cioran has no rivals other than perhaps Nietzsche, and many of his philosophies are echoed by Ligotti. But Ligotti is far more disturbing than Cioran, who is actually very funny. In exploring these philosophies, nobody I’ve read has expressed the idea of humanity as aberration more powerfully than Cioran and Ligotti.

In the Dust of This Planet by Eugene Thacker is really good--mostly academic but short meditation on horror and nihilism.

and BLACK METAL, what a goofy book

oh haha i forgot about that part!

and the medieval scholastic format!

oh man i gotta pull that one out again now...

ok i take it back. it's goofy but there's some good stuff in it.

it has to be said, though, dude must be hella committed, otherwise who could have gone to the effort to absorb all that stuff

perhaps this topic brings out the freshman in all of us.

maybe tuomas can tell how the school of life leads to mature acceptance of the inescapable horror of existence

plus disco

maybe disco is what leads to that

which would explain why things were so hopeless in 1995 louisiana

http://truedetectiveconversations.tumblr.com

Transit disturbing gafaw at "too busy seeing".

omg

it is on yo

on tonight, i mean

oh yeah

well that was a fucking rush

jfc @ the last 10 mins

breakdown of the six-minute take: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1722001/true-detective-long-take.jhtml

one thing I keep thinking about w/r/t this show: they stayed partners for 7 years, with this case being the way they started. What made them stop, is the show's narrative going to cover all 7 years etc.

i'm guessing we're not going to see much of anything in between '95 and '12 in this season (and at the moment it appears this season is a one-off story and the next one will be diff't characters)

That was fucking intense

lol u guys are just stringing random ass words to the ends of tv & film threads now admit it

man, this show is both awesome and totally lame. it's quite a trick.

we're all just one phone call away from cracking open the trunk filled with booze and automatic weapons

raves and jordan references: lol90s enough for y'all?

plus the cell phone explanation!

not at all what i was expecting

that was some bravado work right there dang

otm

the more I think about that episode the more annoyed I am with it. we learned literally nothing new about the case or the characters. really just an elaborate excuse to throw in a virtuosic sequence. which, y'know, OK? but maybe not the most effective use of one of your eight hours of story time.

Yeah how dare a TV show waste time on something awesome & entertaining?

Simon you don't know how to watch television do you

That was one of the best things I've seen on TV ever--totally gripping and real. He had to infiltrate the bikers to get to the meth guy who they believe is the murderer. It did move kind of fast but I thought it was refreshing.

the more I think about that episode the more annoyed I am with it. we learned literally nothing new about the case or the characters...

― Simon H., Monday, February 10, 2014 7:46 AM

iirc we learned that marty liked his life the way it was and rust is wolverine. idk that seems like literally something.

This was really bad

you're an idiot

He had to infiltrate the bikers to get to the meth guy who they believe is the murderer.

― waterbabies (waterface), Monday, February 10, 2014 7:51 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Say that line out loud waterface

Say it out loud to the first person you see today

Say "true detective is a great show. He had to infiltrate the bikers to get to the meth guy who they believe is the murderer."

Maybe put "in fact" between the who and they believe

And then say *farts* out loud so you can stay in character

In fact why don't you just lost *farts*right now and get this over with

why don't you ess my dee

at first i felt that maybe rust and marty were acting a bit out of character--or at least overly extreme versions of their characters, but in retrospect i think they pretty carefully prepared the way for this.

whole episode was a fever dream, manic and edgy.

you guys have to admit a show where a 'meth guy' is involved could never be great tv

<3

<3

true detective is a great show.

It's an OK show with the production values of a great one. (see also: boardwalk empire)

also, Zea increasingly otm about Monaghan's character. just such a nothing part. there is literally nothing interesting about Hart's home life beyond the performances.

it's like suddenly they were writing a Shield episode. i didn't hate this, it was quality tv – just felt out of synch with the tone of the previous 3 episodes. Also felt a little cheated because they didn’t reveal anything they’d teased us with in the last episode!

At any rate, I don’t see the need to call people names over it… or rush to be the first to call the episode shit without an explanation (I’ve come to expect the latter from ILX, but not so much the former).

man that was a long-ass shot

Yeah how dare a TV show waste time on something awesome & entertaining?

Simon you don't know how to watch television do you

It's totally possible to do crazy one-offs that expand our understanding of the world or the characters, IE "Fly" or Southland's "Chaos."

why do you think that episode was "crazy" beyond all of the action?

Not especially, given that it was totally in line with what they've spent like a dozen scenes telling us about Cohle, but I've seen other people throw that word around a lot.

tv sucks as a medium but true detective owns unhhh

Preview for next week's ep worries me, like they're gonna go all in with the predictable "Cohle did it" scenario.

yeah that did seem to be the indication. which would be a bummer.

Seemed pretty obvious that is what's been going on with the 2012 interview stuff all along?

I can't help but think that's a red herring.

It will be, but that doesn't make it less yawnsome.

I dunno seems more like the interviewers will continue to pick up on holes in their stories, leading to a confrontation, but not necessarily going whole hog "cohle did it"

I could certainly be wrong but I think they're "onto" something else--something that more likely involves both rust and marty. for one, they didn't tell them anything about what really happened in Beaumont! and they've been more forthcoming with rust than with marty (afaict). otoh they may think rust did it, but there's no way he did. they go to far to show him to be honorable in his own weird way.

I really don't know. this show really has me on my toes.

fyi the bartender in the strip club is pizzolato.

I think they're "onto" something else--something that more likely involves both rust and marty. for one, they didn't tell them anything about what really happened in Beaumont!

By the end of the episode it was pretty obvious why they didn't tell anything about Beaumont, since their off-the-books investigation got them involved an illegal shootout that lead to the death of at least one person, maybe more. (And I suspect they may end up personally offing Ginger as well in the next episode.)

I agree with the folks who said this episode was well done but pointless. Nothing significant happenend with the serial killer investigation, seems like the whole episode was just an excuse to do some cop show cliches (meth head bikers, black drug dealers in the projects, etc). There wasn't even that much character development (we already knew what Cohle is crazy a former narc, and that Hart is a violent asshole), Hart breaking up with his wife was the only significant plot point in this ep. And yeah, I get that regular TV series can do this sort of plot-light "breather" episodes, but if you're doing an 8 episode mini-series, I wouldn't waste one whole ep for that.

To be more specific; Hart didn't tell the investigators about Beaumont because he still has a career to think of, and Cohle didn't tell them most likely because he feels guilty for what happened during the biker raid.

I think it's a bit early to say whether it's pointless; personally I like how it balances out the first three episodes doing a lot more showing than telling

Tuomas kind of otm here imo. It was an enjoyable episode in its way, but also silly what with all the loaded cop show cliches

Loved that Hart's undercover getup for the biker party was a "Division Bell"-era Floyd tour shirt

this episode was not light in plot. feel like there was more plot in this episode than the entirety of the first 3! "rust infiltrates biker gang" is like maybe the final third of the episode? other shows would have made what happened in this episode an entire season.

imo the "cop show" stuff seems to be functional in same respect as the swamp noir stuff. it's all good.

e4 was a very good guitar solo in the middle of a good* song

*so far

and I think it's the queasy constant tension--a real sense of falling off the wagon--that pulls this one over the top. reminded me of the mad men ep where they all do speed.

xpost: yeah! nice analogy.

it's a metal arpeggio style solo

It was the sort of get-the-guy-who-gets-us-to-the-guy plot I'd expect on a show with a 13- or 22-episode order.

Cliches rule btw

Or genre conventions or whatever

it could be a one-off but seems more likely these events will set off a cascade of other events in what's known as a "narrative." (I am being sarcastic only towards myself.)

this episode was not light in plot. feel like there was more plot in this episode than the entirety of the first 3! "rust infiltrates biker gang" is like maybe the final third of the episode?

The Iron Crusaders revelation comes at 20 minute mark, the final 2 thirds of the episode is the two following that lead. The only plot development w/r/t the serial killer is over after the first 5 minutes, once they stop interrogating the dead girl's ex in prison. There was some interesting stuff revealed during that interview (now we know for sure there's a cult behind the killings, and that King in Yellow is some kind of inspiration for them), though most of that was already heavily hinted in the previous episodes.

Some future plot speculation: when the two detectives investigating the case in 2012 revealed to Cohle that there'd been another killing, he doesn't seem particularly surprised, does he? He even asks the detectives something like, "Well, how come there's a new killing if we caught the guy in 1995?", in a half-mocking tone, which kinda felt like he knew they guy they caught wasn't the (only) killer. So, maybe Cohle and Hart find out about this cult, but somehow (most likely because the cult has connection to local bigshots, like Tuttle or the mayor) the cult manages to keep them silent, and offers them Ledoux (who most likely was involved the death of the two women, but he wasn't the only one) as consolation price. Ledoux gets sentenced, the case is closed, but Hart and Cohle find it hart to work as cops after that, feeling guilty for letting the bad guys go free. Hart becomes a private operaror, Cohle turns to booze.

Loved that Hart's undercover getup for the biker party was a "Division Bell"-era Floyd tour shirt

― Deverly (Bangelo), Monday, February 10, 2014 4:47 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^yes i lold

I'm a little worried about just how silly this show is gonna get.

Well, since "The King in Yellow" was an inspiration for Lovecraft, there's a slight chance Cthulhu might show up.

a green eared spaghetti Cthulhu

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgJVVDvCEAEJZRN.png

the jailhouse interrogation wasn't the only bit of plot development; having cohle and hart lie to the 2012 investigators makes it clear that their role in the events in beaumont had continued to be concealed (at least from some, if not all other law enforcement) up until then, so that if the murderer is still out there, there's at least the possibility that it's not because of a mistake cohle and hart made but because of the concealment.

i did think this was pretty light, rushed, and lopsided, though.

I'm beginning to approach this as more episodic than I originally thought. The second episode, with its hallucinatory qualities was quite different from the first, with its more standard hard-nosed detective noir vibe. The third was more domestic drama, maybe. I might be reaching because I've only seen each one once. I thought there was good character stuff here, particularly just how fucked Rust is as well as the uneasy movement towards his and Marty's particular brand of partnership.

Also oner action scenes are awesome.

whatever it is, i'll bet there's some quality compare/contrast essays being blogged right now about this and that other antlered-naked-corpse show

Kinda surpised folks seem down on that episode, that last half was so much fun.

about this and that other antlered-naked-corpse show

???

Hannibal, I assume. Unless there's a third.

IRL LOL at Harrleson's 90s-era Floyd shirt.

i missed that. was it from the Division Bell tour?

I could kind of care less whether the episode revealed anything new about the investigation, because "who is the killer" is not really even in the top ten things to care about on this show.

^ otm. vastly prefer manic descent into biker hell and woody/mac character stuff to the Law & Order interrogation scenes and whatnot.

Agree with Andy Greenwald @ Grantland that they totally missed a trick by not having a Cohle & Hart: wacky housemates montage.

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2014/02/11/3273741/true-detective-just-violated-potential-make-great/

But in this episode, rather than exploring the obvious connection between Reggie’s tattoo and the painting on Dora Lange’s back, True Detective decided to indulge Rust’s desire to revisit his out-of-control past, and Marty’s desire, driven by Maggie’s defenestration of him from their marital home, to get messed up with him.

Stopped reading--Maggie didn't throw him through a window

Boy people sure are tripping over themselves to talk about how underwhelmed they are.

What an inane piece. How did the author want them to "explore the obvious connection" between the victim and the guy who was already their chief suspect, other than by trying to find the suspect? Did she think that both detectives missed that detail when Charlie said it because neither of them blurted out, "Wait, a spiral tattoo? Just like the girl had!"

"Let's go to the library and have Giles look up spiral tattoos!"

because "who is the killer" is not really even in the top ten things to care about on this show.

i think the creators of the show only care about him in a functional, set-the-plot-in-motion, kind of way. i believe pizzolatto even says as much somewhere.

i suppose it's splitting hairs, but i think the show is as much *about* its genre trappings as performing them--and it might even be casting a critical eye on said trappings (again that idea of "narrative"). many of what i consider to be (so far) misreadings of the show seem to conflate the show's POV with the machinery of its plot/genre. i do agree the female characters are underwritten but im hopeful that will change. i also suspect there are more tonal shifts coming.

exactly!
whatever wrote this piece also goes on to complain that we didn't learn enough about the biker gang and people in the projects... like you can't have random people in a TV show without dedicating 30 minutes to each and every one of their personal histories?!

Gukbe – why on earth did you share this?!

xpost to boxall

how are we going to learn how to question our own privilege unless we really try to learn about what life is like for a bayou biker gang

i mean is tv going to be completely unedifying or are we going to expect more from our creative workers

Gukbe – why on earth did you share this?!

people were being sniffy about the plot machinations that led to that sequence and so i thought i'd link to a thing i saw tweeted because it sort of extends what some (not me) see as a problem.

I agree with ryan about its genre trappings and the way it explores them, but part of me is just trusting that it's going to be paid off in an interesting way.

"trust" is an interesting idea when it comes to TV - in the case of True Detective, I personally don't much trust in it just yet based on what we've seen, the fact that the writer's only other screen credits (iirc) are on The Killing, and the fact that HBO has had absolutely no problem producing attractive genre schlock in the past.

to be clear though I do think it's entertaining and fun to watch. just not more than that, yet.

true detective is better than the wire b/c there has at least so far not been a montage of gas mask meth man waking up and brushing his teeth set to a masta ace song.

^^^^

I want to read "Galveston" but I think I'll wait until this is over.

because "who is the killer" is not really even in the top ten things to care about on this show.

i think the creators of the show only care about him in a functional, set-the-plot-in-motion, kind of way. i believe pizzolatto even says as much somewhere.

Now that I think of it, my problem wasn't really with "who is the killer" plot not advancing, but with the fact that it was replaced with such a predictable story for this episode. At least in the previous eps TD has managed to do something fresh within its genre, but that wasn't really the case here. All the elements of the whole Iron Crusaders subplot were things that we've seen in cop shows and movies a million times: undercover cop has to go way deep into his role to maintain credibility, including taking drugs - bonds with undpredictable, bald and bearded white criminals - partner is worried that he has gone too far - to maintain credibility he has to participate in a heist, which (of course!) goes wrong - they have to fight a bunch of black people in the projects who have more guns than the army - etc. I agree the whole thing was nicely shot and edited, but it went down just as you expected. So yeah, I've no problem with the show going off tangents, but I was expecting it's tangents to be more imaginative.