king of research - season 2

Hihihi,

This is a new round of king of research - old competition had many great champions, but no winner. My fault!

Rules - each time there is something that contestant must find. First round is casting, then each round one candidate is knocked out, until king of research is found.

Casting Round

Easy round to start, ilx must simply find CD album by person or band, with link to buy. Number of letters in name of album must be same as letters in name of performer or band. No single, EP - only album counts. But compilation of single artist is okay! Self-titled not okay, too boring.

Here is famous example.

Deadline is end of Wednesday!

<3 u maps.

The Rolling Stones - Bridges To Babylon

Gas - Pop

don't have time to play, but good luck researchers, I will be watching with keen interest.

fall out boy - folie a deux

Disco Inferno - Technicolour

my favourite album this year so far!

dawn richard - goldenheart

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-elNAXdGL.jpg

Superchunk
"On the Mouth"
http://www.mergerecords.com/store/store_detail.php?catalog_id=708

I'm going to crash badly right away but I missed the first go round and this fascinates me.

Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear

Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now

Stereolab - Sound-Dust

From the description and the other entries I'm assuming we count only letters as letters, and no punctuation etc, right?

Yes, punctuation is free! Sound-Dust, good.

Also as an aside I am thinking maybe I know who maps is but I could be wrong.

Oh go on then.

Peter Hammill - The Future Now

Tho

I'm going to crash badly right away but I missed the first go round and this fascinates me.

― taxi tomato or bag tomato (Trayce), Tuesday, 10 September 2013 11:38 (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

Elton John - Blue Moves

do numbers count? because then

Rush - 2112

"The winner will be Alba"

Madonna - Erotica

Van der Graaf Generator - H to He Who Am the Only One

Os Mutantes - Tecnicolor

New Order - Movement

New Order - Republic

New Order - Get Ready

Acid Mothers Temple - Are We Experimental?

Yeah Yeah Yeahs – Show Your Bones

OK GO - Oh No

not actual entries but

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61N92CNZBHL._SL500_.jpg

Michael Doughty - Haughty Melodic and Imogen Heap - I Megaphone are both anagrams

Ha, I got curious about anagrams and googled around to find those, too. But I didn't post 'em in case anyone else wanted to use them for real entries.

Magic Dirt - Snow White

Luna - Live

in case that's cheating:
Aesop Rock - Labor Days

Goldfrapp - Tales of Us

Moodles, that counts.

yessssss

Microdisney-Crooked Mile

There are a lot of entrants this time around.

Deadline is end of Wednesday!

*bump for any late entrants*

Kyary Pamyu Pamyu - Nanda Collection

Round is closed! Thank you emil.y for kind bump at the end.

Good that so many want to be king!

Ailsa
Noodle Vague
Johnny Crunch
Conrad
Lex
Trayce
Blandford
Mordy
Emil.y
Fizzles
Eyeball Kicks
Moodles
JBN
Oystein
Merdeyeux
Neil S
Abanana
Anatol_M
eephus
Sunny Successor
Milo
Z S
bends
ShariVari

Did I miss anyone? New round, divisions tomorrow morning.

God, I've just read through the first king of research thread (I'd only looked at the first couple of questions on it before now), and I wasn't exactly confident about my chances to begin with, but I would like it put on the record that I am not expecting to do very well at this, just in case I look hubristic when I got knocked out in the first round.

Still want to take part though, to be clear.

wait how is wednesday ended?

http://www.musicstack.com/item/75480191

I have no confidence in my abilities either but I think I'll go hard with the hubris anyway. I'm gonna walk this thing.

wait how is wednesday ended?

― zvookster, Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:08 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait how is wednesday ended?

― zvookster, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:08 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think the quiz-runner gets to set what time zone the quiz is in, imperialist schweinhund.

http://elasticwitch.bigcartel.com/product/chelsea-wolfe-pain-is-beauty-lp
http://elasticwitch.bigcartel.com/product/belle-and-sebastian-the-third-eye-centre-lp

but i have bonus beats!

Oh, have you not been enrolled? For some reason I thought you were just being a US pedant. Maybe Maps will let you in if he (?) sees yr entry before sorting the divisions?

everybody knows that the World Research Clock is set to GMT, jeez.

o i thought u were getting started early on being competitive. "that's the spirit", i wuz thinkin xp

I don't mind more people joining in, I'll take all comers.

I'm ready to rumble (out of the first round thru lack of research skills/forgetting to chek thred)

Zvookster, you are in, as riderless horse.

Round 1
Next round is picture round! Last time this was a big squabble, so I will try to be precise.

In this round you must find a picture of a man. He has a beard (deliberate hair below lips) and he is wearing glasses. He is not head of any state!

Also in the photo, there is a head of state.

Head of state can be repeat used by other poster, but bearded man must be original.

If every contestant finds a photo, beard with least hair - out!

Please post link to image, not image itself! Thread must load quickly. Deadline is end Friday!

C. Everett Koop and Ronald Reagan

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/089_RabbiLecturing.jpg

poles apart is the hilarious caption i have for this - Pope John Paul II (head of state of the vatican city) and Pinchas Menachem Joskowicz, one time chief rabbi of the polish.

beard with least hair - out!

i foresee contention

(there's already contention with me, feeling slightly insane peering at GISed bearded men and trying to decided whose is bigger)

metropolitan filaret of minsk and president alexander lukashenko of belarus

gah I am getting some effed up GIS searches for shit like "queen with bearded man"and "tony blair moustache championships" and so on. GOod god.

yeah me too xpost.

squinting at rabbis saying NO, you're out, your beard is not long enough.

Ahshit, forgot the glasses rule!

Oliver Sacks and the Queen:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PA-6593662.jpg
http://www.anorak.co.uk/362129/news/oliver-sacks-old-age-is-a-time-of-freedom-and-exploration.html/

(its ok her back is to camera right? I mean its obvious its the queen)

ah fuck so did I. King Fizzles the Shit of Research.

That Koop beard'll be hard to beat :/

Shit sorry about posting the img, didnt see that bit.

Koop beard's already been beaten imo

Sorry scratch that here's a better one:

Obama and Rabbi Israel Mier
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/03/22/lebanon-hezbollah-idINDEE92L05P20130322

So tempted to post a picture of the President of Finland with a man dressed as Father Christmas but am choosing to interpret the requirement as real beards.

I think lex's beardyman is a touch longer than mine. THis *is* going to be contentious I reckon!

Former head of state (Vatican) Joseph Ratzinger with Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople

OK thats 2 pics now with hands over the end of the beard. Heh.

Does the head of state have to have been head of state at the time the photo was taken, or can it be someone who later became head of state/former head of state?

Sardar Swaran Singh, Minster for External Affairs, and take your pick from Zulfiqur Ali Bhutto or Indira Ghandi.

Disappointingly trimmed.

I think I've found one anyway, ayatollah khomeini with hussein ali montazeri

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/assets_c/2009/12/montazeri+khomeini-thumb-160xauto-1239.jpg

took me ages to find out who the Sardar was, he's always pictured standing behind Benazir, so I thought he was a man-in-waiting or something. xpost

Rules:

1) Head of state must be current at time of photo. So far, I think all are good, but helpful to give citation if head for a short time.
2) Candidate must identify man with beard (so far all have, no problem)

Oh, I've found a better one: Barack Obama and Greek Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/President_Barack_Obama_meets_with_Greek_Orthodox_Ecumenical_Patriarch_Bartholomew_I_crop.jpg

Sorry, meant to ask: if we've already submitted an entry, but find another dude with MOAR BEARD are we allowed to post that as well, to shore up our position?
(Sorry for all the questions)

bendis, beard claimed already!

yes, subsequent posting allowed up to deadline, if improves the entry.

beard poaching.

Oops, sorry ShariVari

I don't think we've seen any of these before? Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal (L), President Shimon Peres (2R), head of the Jewish ultra orthodox political party Eli Yishai (C) and Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church Theophilos III (R) attend a ceremony held at the President’s house in Jerusalem in honour of the leaders of the different Christian communities in Israel. December 28, 2011.

http://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/600_nxs59dsweba3v3k9pykjfrx23mrikk4g.jpg

Fouad Twal is the entry obv, being the one with beard and glasses

Oh crap, Twal is the gut second from the left, not the one with the beard, sorry.

My apparent inability to read proving something of a handicap here.

yes, subsequent posting allowed up to deadline, if improves the entry.

i didn't like this rule last time and don't like it now :(

heh, i found that bartholomew/obama picture and compared his beard to filaret's beard for an insane length of time

Ovadia_Yosef and Shimon Peres

http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/jracism/Rabbi_Ovadia_Yosef-Peres.jpg

Gonna be a lotta rabbis up in this thread.

i'm with lex, multi-go rule is bogus

1) because if you happen to be a bit busy for the time period you're disadvantaged
2) worse than that if someone finds and posts like 10 entries that's gaming the system against later entrants who find their pool of options reduced

agree, getting beard anxiety already.

lex & NV otm - otherwise it's more 'king of being on the internet for ages'.

Yes its an interesting point actually. Its hardly *research* if we see other responses and just get do overs. The key here might be "you only get one go - so take the time and get it right". I dunno. I'm not objecting, but its an interesting idea.

Anyway - Bush & Friend

2) Candidate must identify man with beard (so far all have, no problem)

Santa Claus

I can think about changing it if people think it's bad. I think it has encouraged good research before in rounds like 'The ___ ___ of ____', where candidates really dug in to find better and better answers, once they realised that the fire was fierce in their rivals! But maybe it's wrong for earlier rounds, where repeat posts with tiebreaker concerns can lock out latecomers?

Could there be a limit to the number of entries? Like you get one repeat entry but that's it, maybe on the second day of the round to make it fairer for people who are not around in the morning when the question is announced?

3 goes each like some field events in athletics

ex-Prime Minister Gordon Brown with ex-Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams

Patriarch Kirill I and President Vladimir Putin.

Getting antsy now, I found a better one after searching for a bit longer, but I don't want to post until we get the final call re.acceptable number of entries

the beard round! this plays right into my skillset tbh

I see that ShariVari got to (and discounted) Santa Claus before me - clearly a more discerning researcher. I'll be back with a proper one...

Dalai Lama & Dean Evenson

German president Joachim Gauck with Rabbi Shneur Trebnik

I may need to up my beardage quotient :-(

Sephardi Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef & President Shimon Peres, 14 August 2013

yisroel dovid weiss w/ Iranian President Ahmadinejad during meeting in Tehran, 5/15/2011

President Vladimir Putin with Chief Rabbi of Russia Berl Lazar

George W. Bush with Archbishop Demetrios.

(my skills as a researcher and knowledge of world affairs are evident when you know that I found that at the end of a trail started by searching for 'ZZ Top with president'.)

Was Ahmadinejad head of state? I thought that in Iran the Supreme Leader rather than the President is head of state?
(Not trying to grass up johnny crunch, it's just that i picked Ayatollah Khomeini for my HOS, so if he doesn't count I mat need to try another entry.)

officially the President of Iran is head of state aiui

Damn, that's what I get for relying on wikipedia.

king of half-arsed, inaccurate research.

Parkash Singh Badal and PM David Cameron

Aye, scrap my one of Gordon Brown, as the Queen is the head of state. Here she is with Rabbi Aryeh Sofrin

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_11Ys6wmW_BM/TI5qzODvWrI/AAAAAAAABV8/66iG9kErgXk/s1600/Queen+Rabbi+and+Handshake.jpg

The ayatollah is head of state.

http://media.elnuevoherald.com/smedia/2013/01/23/16/56/830-KOyAq.St.138.jpeg

Putin with Ilia II, current Catholicos-Patriarch of All Georgia and the spiritual leader of the Georgian Orthodox Church, 24/01/2013

I think for this round only people should be allowed to revise their entries tomorrow since we weren't clear on that, but from then on we should only be allowed the one. Take us away from the current rapid fire situation to a tense standoff - we all have our beards ready, but who's going to give the game away by drawing first?

Willie Nelson and Jimmy Carter

don't forget the beardo has to have glasses too.

wha? I totally missed that. Also, Willie doesn't have a huge beard. Oh well, might post another and see if I receive mercy from the rules gods

this pic is an epic answer to the question

only 1/2 bespectacled but yeah p good

yeah that was one of the mid-points between my search for 'ZZ Top with president' and my eventual answer (sadly I don't know who any of those guys are).

the guy in the foreground to dubya's immediate left is rabbi shemtov - chief chabad rabbi of philadelphia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Shemtov

Often called the "Rebbe's ambassador to DC",[1] Shemtov developed extensive connections and friendships in Washington. He regularly leads Chabad-Lubavitch delegations to the White House and played a pivotal role in the relationships formed between Schneerson and U.S. Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama.[2]

Multiple entries is necessary to stop people just coming in at the end and sniping the prize - it may disadvantage people who don't have much time, but not as much as single entries disadvantage people who aren't available at the end of deadline.

More importantly, it keeps the thread rolling and fun. Which would you rather have - a dead thread where people just post one entry and that's it, or a thread full of people posting excitedly, discussion and argument?

xp wiki is meshichist

Anyway, I'm actually finding this pretty hard, so here's my placeholder: Cambodian King Norodom Sihamoni with Rabbi Bentzion Butman

I was confident with my photo but with this laissez-faire attitude to multiple entries I'm getting a bit worried. May have to call off all my appointments over the next few weeks.

Basically if multiple entries get banned I might not even bother. What's the point? It's meant to be fun, and if someone else 'steals' your entry and you can't find another then maybe you don't deserve to be crowned the king of research?

yeah I think when it comes to the threat of people posting dozens and dozens of answers early in the round then a basic 'don't be a jerk' rule should suffice.

i'm mad at jerry garcia right now for never meeting a president. ya damn hippy!

I think pointing out the parameters of the question to others is a no-no, if they can't read the question right, then they don't deserve to be a king of research either.

I thought this was meant to be fun

Nicholas II with not one but two beardos

I thought Rasputin w/ Nicholas II would coast in this, so much beard - but apparently they were never photographed together.

all the best games are those that straddle the line between 'fun' and 'lengthy intense tearful argument'.

yeah I think when it comes to the threat of people posting dozens and dozens of answers early in the round then a basic 'don't be a jerk' rule should suffice.

I think I've posted five, but only because I noticed that three of them don't actually fit the criteria after I posted them, hope I haven't been a jerk.

well, it's not the best, but here's

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (L) speaking with Hassan Khomeini (M) the grandson of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Iran's intelligence Minister Heydar Moslehi during a death anniversary of the daughter of the Prophet Mohammad, in Tehran,Iran on May 6, 2011.

imo a set number of do-overs is a good compromise (two? three?) because yes, if one isn't online at the time of deadline it could be annoying

but i remember last time people just swamped it trying to one-up themselves in one particular round and by the time late-comers got there it seemed like there was no point

I think I was responsible for getting over-excited and doing that a bit, so yeah, I am amenable to a compromise. Or at least, until the numbers go down - certainly by the time we get to a head-to-head we should be revving up the competitive element.

Here is my much better real entry after that relatively poor placeholder:

The head of state of Serbia & Montenegro, President Svetozar Marovic, with a whole bunch of Serbian Orthodox peeps.
This very important event was attended by Republic of Serbia Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, as well as by His Eminence Metropolitan Amfilohije of Montenegro and the Littoral, His Grace Bishop Irinej of Backa, His Grace Bishop Vasilije of Srem, His Grace Bishop Fotije of Dalmatia, His Grace Bishop Gerasim of Gornji Karlovac, His Grace Bishop Profirije of Jegar, His Grace Bishop Milutin of Australia, and His Grace Bishop Lukijan of Osijek Polje and Baranja.
http://www.spc.rs/old/Vesti-2004/09/orden-v.jpg

Booming beards/post.

When multiple speccybeardos are present are the beard volumes combined or is only the largest beard considered?

goodness. gonna have to grow my own to belly button length and break into buckingham palace to beat that.

yes but in the name of fun who's who

Ahshit, forgot the glasses rule!

― taxi tomato or bag tomato (Trayce), Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:33 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ this. So many bearos with 20/20 vision wtf?

yes but in the name of fun who's who

― conrad, Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:41 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

From my research, I am relatively secure in saying:

Patriarch Pavle is the old guy in the middle. Lukijan of Osijek Polje and Baranja is #1. Irinej of Backa and Amfilohije of Montenegro both look pretty much like the second guy, which means I'm not sure who the third is. Milutin is non-beardyspeccy in position 4. Vasilije of Srem is #5. Bishop Fotije of Dalmatia is the last guy. Bishop Gerasim of Gornji Karlovac is not in the picture. Bishop Profirije of Jegar is not in the picture.

this game is going to be the best use i ever make of my academic research skills, isn't it.

ahhh Hemingway and Castro<3

ugh didnt see this:

Rules:

1) Head of state must be current at time of photo. So far, I think all are good, but helpful to give citation if head for a short time.
2) Candidate must identify man with beard (so far all have, no problem)

― Maps, Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:17 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xp ah, i thought there'd be a photo of some beardie hippie type with castro, didn't think to look a generation back.

Fuck, forgot the glasses rule. Hope I can get home in time to find something.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50ac4ad7/turbine/la-epa-egypt-president-morsi.jpg-20121120/600

Egypt's Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi, left, receives condolences from Coptic Christian priests at his sister's funeral in Sharqiya.

gah! my mind is not working at full speed today, apologies for pic. Here is the link.

I found similar pictures of Morsi and Coptics, but couldn't identify them - do you have names?

Rabbi Yoel Kaplan (rabbi with read beard on the right side of the picture) and Montenegrin President Filip Vujanović(guy on left side of photo)

taken today (i think)
Steven Spielberg and Israeli President Shimon Peres

Don't think we've seen this gut yet? Patriarch Athenagoras with Pope Paul VI

http://www.orthodoxinstitute.org/images/AthenagorasAndPaulVI.jpg

this guy even. Popes count, right?

fu bends I was relying on you to carry on throwing up duds. my pakistani minister of external affairs is looking distinctly shaky. he helped engineer the Simla agreement dammit - that's got to be worth an inch or two!

xpost yeah post 1929.

I feel like it's cheating because they're just the predecessors of the two ShariVari posted above.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rabbi_Arie_Zeev_Raskin_meets_the_President_of_Cyprus_Mr._Dimitris_Christofias.jpg

IDs in file name

OK, third time's the charm. Sorry to spam this thread with so many of these. Luckily Russia has lots of beardy bishops.

Vladimir Putin meets the members of Russian Orthodox Church Holy Synod: Patriarch Alexy II, Metropolitans Vladimir and Filaret

Moodles, which of these three is your answer? And which is he?

Metropolitan Vladimir is the bespectacled guy on the far left. Here's a handy dandy guide the Current Hierarchs of the Patriarchate of Moscow

When multiple speccybeardos are present are the beard volumes combined or is only the largest beard considered?

Whoever candidate selects! But I expect they select longest beard.

(To make a clear warning to all, if candidate sends second, third, fourth entry, only most recent is their "real" entry. No "backup" if research error.)

Is your backup allowed if, like me, you assumed a UK prime minister to be head of state rather than head of government? Or was that a research error?

Ailsa, you changed wrong answer to right answer, no problem! I am saying that if candidate posts wrong answer after right answer, and deadline expires - they are out.

Now I'm scared. I'm 90% sure I identified my beardos as correctly as possible, but there's still a chance I fucked up. Are we allowed to request verification of our entries or do we just have to wait until the guillotine comes down?

guillotine!

i just wanted to confirm that my one + only entry is my first entry. the second picture i linked to was just for lolz

emil.y - I cannot do verification until deadline but you only need one bearded man, so you can choose from the three in your picture a most confident one if you like.

linking to pictures for lolz should be an autoban

Hm, well, I would choose the most lustrous beard, but I think I have a more verifiable one. This is my third entry, I hope that's okay.

Dimitry Medvedev and Bishop Hrizostom

This was in 2009, when Medvedev was President of Russia (and thus head of state). Hrizostom is the speccybeardo on the far right. There are more pictures of this event here. There are more pictures of Hrizostom here.

The Chief Minister of Punjab, Parkash Singh Badal meeting the President, Pranab Mukherjee,at Rashtrapati Bhavan,in New Delhi on April 18,2013. (though not in that order!)

Incidentally, I first thought of the recent pictures of Donald Hall with Obama -- but he had no glasses, of course. That made me look at other beardy American poets meeting presidents. No relevant hits, but I just really want to point you all to this one of President Theodore Roosevelt & John Burroughs; Around 1903.

I probably won't be around this weekend, so I'm hoping the next round's deadline won't be on Sunday.

Oystein, next round next week. I need this weekend to verify beards!

http://sana.sy/servers/gallery/201302/20130211-180944_h466702.jpg

prez assad with john x of antioch, february 2012

http://www.syrianews.cc/president-al-assad-receives-patriarch-john-x-yazigi/

http://www.collive.com/pics//nf_E-03_148257.jpg

Prime Minister of Israel Binyamin Netanyahu in Ottawa with Rabbi Chaim Mendelsohn and Rabbi Chaim Boyarsky. Two bearded spectacled men! Do I have to choose one? I guess Mendelsohn -- it's possible Boyarsky's beard extends slightly farther downward from the chin but Mendelsohn's beard is plainly larger and just somehow asserts itself more.

Wait, is this wrong because the Israeli prime minister is head of government but not head of state (that's the president)?

This is tragic because I actually found a shot of ZZ Top with the prime minister of Macedonia. But he, like Netanyahu, is head of government, not head of state.

http://old.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/23102/

This is my answer if prime ministers count as heads of state, and if sunglasses count as glasses.

If heads of state is really restricted to "heads of state," my answer is Pres. Shimon Peres with Shlomo Amar, the chief Sephardic rabbi of Israel:

http://www.vosizneias.com/109907/2012/07/15/jerusalem-sephardi-chief-rabbi-calls-to-end-senseless-hatred-against-the-caredim/

Head of state must be head of state. Sunglasses, good.

Theres an awful lot of "hands over end of beards" pics that are gonna make judging tricky :)

Trayce, maybe in later round! But for round one, I set tiebreaker only to challenge candidates, because likely one or two contestants make no entry at all. If beard long enough to cover hand - very safe.

Next round we split into divisions - so more competition, and tiebreaker must be more clear.

mentioned upthread but not correctly claimed imo

Middle two guys, L-R, Dr Boris Tadic, President of Serbia, and His Grace Bishop Irinej of Backa

Yep, my pic with Irinej was replaced with a safer (touch wood) option, so he's fine (unless I missed someone else pick him).

i did a search on the thread after i came across the pic and the only reference i could find was your general one so i think i'm ok

OK so then Peres-Amar is my answer. Thanks for clarification and I salute any prospective king who can find ZZ Top with an actual head of state.

Does a photoshopped one count? (this is not an entry, just an answer for Guayaquil)

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/1/1567/16x9/750.jpg

zz top played at george w inaug

I'm a bit disappointed that there are so few of these featuring pop culture icons rather than rabbis and orthodox priests

my Guinness book of records beards presidetns searches came up p bupkiss :(

I have found a picture of Dubya with ZZ Top. Is it too late for me to post it?

that was from when he was governor

of texas, research fans

Ah, OK. Stand down. I'm happy enough with my entry, tbh.

current heads of state is the rule, unfortunately

would have been happier with a no rabbi rule

current to time photographed

would have been happier with a no rabbi rule

I've quite enjoyed the sudden education in rabbinical high society. also tremdously excited by metropolitan filarets.

far too many of them long-sighted fuckers tho. why no glasses u poxy old fule, surely u can't see a thing.

i've been pondering with yogis, sadhus etc whether wearing glasses wd in some way give the lie to their awesome religious powers

Closing in 20 minutes.

Closed! Verification over weekend, then new round Tuesday morning.

i do not envy the administrators of this contest. i imagine maps poring over images over the weekend, counting every single hair

maps is actually travelling around the world right now, meeting with various elder religious figures and weighing their beards

Oh shit, I completely missed this thread, would've loved to join the contest! If I manage to find valid answers for the first two rounds today, can I still join?

ZS - not so hard, because some failed to enter! So no need to weigh beards, just to find supporting photo of rabbi etc. All valid entries to next round.

Tuomas - normally, no riderless horse after round 2 closed, but luckily no tiebreaker used, so can follow as riderless horse if find something before midnight say?

maps do you know roughly how many people failed to enter?

it's like they say, the most important thing in life is, uh...uh. showing movies

Did not expect Tuomas defeated by beards!

Oh yeah, sorry, I was busy last night, forgot to post this:

http://www.presidentti.fi/halonen/Public/defaultc889.html?contentid=200399&nodeid=41416&contentlan=1&culture=fi-FI

Here's the then-president of Finland, Tarja Halonen, meeting up with various dignitaries of the Orthodox Church in 2010. The dude with the white hat on her left is Archbishop Leo, the head of the Finnish Orthodox Church. His glasses are a bit hard too see in that pic, because he has rimless ones, but as you can see in this pic, he does indeed wear glasses.

And here's an album where the title and the artist name have the same amount of letters:

Monolake - Hongkong

If Discogs is not a valid "link to buy", here's an Amazon link for the same album.

Tuomas - you xposted with final list of candidates for next round! Seven minutes later, no good. But now I suppose allowed.

Ailsa
Noodle Vague
Johnny Crunch - no head of state in picture
Conrad
Lex
Trayce
Blandford
Mordy
Emil.y
Fizzles
Eyeball Kicks
Moodles
JBN
Oystein
Merdeyeux
Neil S - no entry.
Abanana
Anatol_M
eephus
Sunny Successor
Milo - no glasses in picture
Z S
bends
ShariVari
zvookster
Tuomas

And here's another pic from the meeting, just to make sure Archbishop Leo was wearing glasses when he met President Halonen. (The other bearded dude in the pic is Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople, but I think he's already been used by someone else, so Leo is my entry.)

(xpost)

23 candidates to be king! Next round, 3 out.

Johnny Crunch - no head of state in picture

Does this mean you've decided that Ahmadinejad doesn't count?

Wikipedia says this about Iranian government:

The Constitution defines the President as the highest state authority after the Supreme Leader.

Round 2

Once more, simple round while field is many kings. Slowly we lose pretenders!

Candidates must find two books. Books must be printed, not scrolls or unique manuscripts. Books must have a clear, agreed title.

If book has subtitle, okay to cut. So this book can be called 'Blitz', or have full title: http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Blitz.html?id=G_RzPwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y , your choice.

Neither book has title starting 'the'. Neither book has word 'and' in title. If book title is not in English, equivalents of those words also forbidden.

Book titles are same words in backwards order. So, for example, 'My Fair Lady' and 'Lady Fair My'.

Hyphens, spaces are important - cannot ignore.

Tiebreaker is the year-gap between publication of first book and second book. Longest gap is best.

Please post tiebreaker with your answer if possible.

Did we come to a final decision regarding whether multiple entries are accepted/number of entries that will be considered?

No decision, only lengthy intense tearful argument.

Okay, I think I got it:

King John, a play by Shakespeare. First published in book form in 1623.

John King: Ireland's Forgotten Explorer - Australia's First Hero. Published in 2012.

Tuomas, no book titled 'King John' in 1623.

Did we come to a final decision regarding whether multiple entries are accepted/number of entries that will be considered?

Serious answer - will consider restriction of 3 or 5 for rounds where few possible entries exist, so early sniper cannot grab all. But not for this round.

Okay, fair enough. I think we'd need to have a better definition of "book", though... Does it have to be a bound book, or do scroll, tablets etc count?

Inability to research the actual words in the original post = instant disqualification

Ah, sorry!

Does the book title need to be more than 1 word? Can the words be identical in either order?

Moodles, good question! Yes, titles must be different.

ART TEACHING by George Szekely and Julie Alsip Bucknam, Routledge (2012)

TEACHING ART by Doreen Roberts, Batsford (1978)

Okay, I have another question. There are a lot of books which are now known by shorter name than what they were firsh published with. For example, Robinson Crusoe was first published as "The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, Of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates". Is it valid to use the modern, shorter name when using an old book for this entry, or does the name have to be exactly as it was when it was first published?

Holy shit this is already gonna kill me.

How do dashes work? Is the reverse of "Ridiculous Lobster-Party"
"Lobster-Party Ridiculous" or "Party-Lobster Ridiculous"?

How about other punctuation -- What's the reverse of "Treasure Island!!!"?

Tuomas, no book titled 'King John' in 1623.

Here's an edition of King John published in the year 1900.

John Milton, Paradise Lost (1667)
Cees Nooteboom, Lost Paradise: A Novel (2008)

That has extra words in the title! I thought that was the point.

Damn, that's a good one!

If book has subtitle, okay to cut.

oh ok hm. That changes my approach.

when is deadline btw? I have a fuckton of work and will be often offline over the next three weeks...

Just to clarify, what kind of proof do we need to provide of the publication date?

Came to post

Treasure Island - Robert Louis Stevenson (1883)
Island Treasure - Elizabeth Beresford (1998)

But feel a bit fraudulent as I see it was mentioned upthread in a conversation about punctuation. I'll try to find another if I can

Just to be clear though - that is an official entry!

Father and Son - Edmund Gosse (1907)
Son and Father: Before & Beyond the Oedipus Complex - Peter Blos (1985)

Neither book has title starting 'the'. Neither book has word 'and' in title. If book title is not in English, equivalents of those words also forbidden.

ah, missed the "and" bit

Okay, forget about King John, here's my official entry:

Secret Love, or The Maiden Queen by John Dryden. First published in 1668.

Love Secret by John Turner. First published in 1962.

First Love - Ivan Turgenev (1860)
Love First: A Family's Guide to Intervention (2nd Revised edition edition) - Jeff & Debra Jay (2000)

First Love wasn't published as a book in 1860. It was in a literary magazine.

Also, it's a short story that apparently wasn't published in English as a separate book before 1950.

Maps, what are the rules concerning books that weren't originally in English? If you take "First Love" as an example, obviously it wasn't originally called "First Love", rather than "Первая любовь". It wasn't published as "First Love" until the first English edition came out in 1897. If we're using English titles, should we only count the year when the book was originally published in English, with that specific title?

Putting this forward as a placeholder in case it's not valid (translations of titles were hinted at as legitimate in the question and i would interpret "Or The Roman Antiquities of Britain" as a subtitle):

John Horsley - Brittania Romana: Or The Roman Antiquities of Britain (1732)
Patricia Southern - Roman Britain: A New History (2013)

Actually, scratch that - it would be a swizz to have the same title but with the words reversed due to the grammatical rules of different languages.

Many questions! Will try to answer.

Lex/others, this round ends end of Thursday. My fault for not saying!

Tuomas, with Robinson Crusoe, you must find edition with the title you want.

Oystein,

For "Ridiculous Lobster-Party", I would accept both "Lobster-Party Ridiculous" and "Party-Lobster Ridiculous". Good question!

Other punctuation is okay to ignore.

ShariVari, proof of publication date must be convincing to me. Sorry I cannot give clearer rule! If ambiguous, I will try to research it, or ask candidate to clarify.

Maps, what are the rules concerning books that weren't originally in English? If you take "First Love" as an example, obviously it wasn't originally called "First Love", rather than "Первая любовь". It wasn't published as "First Love" until the first English edition came out in 1897. If we're using English titles, should we only count the year when the book was originally published in English, with that specific title?

Reverse of "Первая любовь" is "любовь Первая". If candidate finds book with that title - well done! Otherwise, must find edition with the title 'First Love', like Robinson Crusoe.

ShariVari - subtitles are fine, but titles are not reversed! 'Charlotte's Web' is not the reverse of 'Web's Charlotte'. Must be the same word, not the same word-stem.

I think that is everything.

Okay, thanks! Is my entry of "Secret Love" / "Love Secret" valid, btw? I think it doesn't break any of the rules.

Yes, valid. Love Secret looks like an exciting read.

Down Deep - Mike Croft (2008)
Deep Down - R.M Ballantyne (1868)

First Love - Ivan Turgenev (1860)
Love First: A Family's Guide to Intervention (2nd Revised edition edition) - Jeff & Debra Jay (2000)

― Eyeball Kicks, Tuesday, September 17, 2013 11:04 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

First Love wasn't published as a book in 1860. It was in a literary magazine.

― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, September 17, 2013 11:07 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also, it's a short story that apparently wasn't published in English as a separate book before 1950.

OK, I will resubmit:

First Love - Ivan Turgenev (trans. Isaiah Berlin), London: Hamish Hamilton (1950)
Love First: A Family's Guide to Intervention (2nd Revised edition edition) - Jeff & Debra Jay, Hazelden Information & Educational Services (2000)

LIBERTY OR DEATH by John Lowe, J. Harrop (1789)

DEATH OR LIBERTY by Douglas R. Egerton, Oxford University Press (2011)

Just in case anyone else wants to try it, there is no book called Hill Fanny.

Life Everlasting, John Fiske, 1901

Everlasting Life, by David Swanson, 2013

and yes I also looked up hill fanny

Apparently Fanny Hill wasn't even the original name of the book, though?

Nope, it was a longer title, but that's been ruled acceptable if you can find a print that has the shorter title.

Okay, no idea if this counts, I could make a case for it, but I found it funny, anyway.

Measure for Measure by William Shakespeare, 1623
Measure for Measure by Thomas J. Glover & Richard Allen Young, 1996

It doesn't count... I thought about that one too, but Maps said the two titles have to be different from each other. Also, 1623 was the publication date for a folio of Shakespeare's plays, but no separate book called "Measure for Measure" was published then. I had to abandon my Shakespeare entry because I couldn't find info on when it was first published as a separate book.

Good points about the folio. I'd missed the post where he clarified they had to be different, but I suppose common sense could've worked that out.

(Still amuses me, though.)

Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen, 1813
Prejudice and Pride, Damien-Claude Belanger, 2011

I....GODDAMMIT

i even read through everyone's answers and thought to myself "jeez, can't they read the rules?"

*shameface*

Okay, got one.

Love for Money or, The boarding school a comedy, by Thomas D'urfey, 1691
Money for Love by Josephine Herbst, 1929

Hopefully I can get a better distance, but that'll do for now. The link for D'urfey provides back-up that it was published as a book in itself on that date.

(That's 238 years, by my calculations)

ok, for real this time:

First Love by Ivan Turgenev, 1860
Love First by Jeff Jay and Debra Jay, first published in 2000

^ wait, that's mine! (Apart from the fact that you've got the wrong date for Turgenev, as discussed above.)

Z S: read a few posts above. Eyeball Kicks already used that one, and 1860 is not a valid publication date for it.

shall we do a season of king of reading first

king of facepalm

king of ctrl+f

self-ban

nooooooooo i'm gonna looooose.

Poor ZS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54rv3hfIkc

The only ones I've found so far are only a decade or so apart :-(

I have by far the smallest gap (50 years) of all current entries, but I'm fairly confident that at least three people will fail to find an entry at all.

Probably true, quite possibly worth posting a place-holder if we're allowed up to three entries, or whatever it is that was decided.

for now let's go for a perhaps slightly dodgy one to start:

Essays, Moral and Political by David Hume (1741-42)
Political and Moral Essays by Joseph Rickaby (1902)

(psst, check the rules)

ach wait no ands allowed, i'm boned. xp!

Home Fun by Cecil H. Bullivant (1919)
Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic by Alison Bechdel (2007)

The first link broke, so I'm reposting it here.
Home Fun, by Cecil H. Bullivant (1919): http://books.google.com/books?id=2zgQAQAAIAAJ

OK, just as a placeholder for now:

Open Doors: Students Book Level 1 Published 1994
Doors Open by Ian Rankin Published 2008

okay well time for a terrible placeholder:

Silence Broken: Korean Comfort Women by Dai Sil Kim-Gibson (1999)
Broken Silence by Karen Rose (2013)

do e-books count?

I had a good one but didn't use it as it was only an ebook. Wonder if it's the same one?

Rule says books must be printed, so I didn't go with it

faaaaaaaak didn't notice that 'broken silence' was kindle only. WAAAAAAAH.

OKAY ANOTHER SHITTY PLACEHOLDER, hopefully at least valid this time:

Song Bird by Tololwa M. Mollel (1999)
Bird Song by Stephen Wright (2013)

Breakfast of Champions - Kurt Vonnegut (Hardcover: 05/28/1973)

Champions of Breakfast - Adam Rex (Hardcover: 02/11/2014)

Are we allowed books from the future?

Books must be printed

Quixote Don - onimo (Hardcover 01/01/2051)

;)

in my desperation i did try to find a book called quixote don. these are humbling times.

it's almost better that i got knocked out on ahmenijad cuz this seems fun but im also crazy busy today & tomorrow

Shusaku Endo - Deep River (1994)
http://www.amazon.ca/Deep-River-Shusaku-Endo/dp/0720609208

Maxine Barry - River Deep (2010)
http://www.amazon.ca/River-Deep-Maxine-Barry/dp/0709088930

Year separation isn't great. I might replace these later.

If someone can also find High Mountain and Mountain High then they win.

Margot Tracey - Red Rose (1978)
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Rose-Margot-Tracey/dp/0715374400

Bill Willingham - Rose Red (2011)
http://www.amazon.com/Rose-Red-Bill-Willingham/dp/0857682520/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379438454&sr=1-2&keywords=rose+red+bill+willingham

Not gonna win me a tiebreaker, I guess, but ...

John Dos Passos, 1920: "Three Soldiers" (novel)
Rudyard Kipling, 1888: "Soldiers Three: a collection of stories setting forth certain passages in the lives and adventures of Privates Terence Mulvaney, Stanley Ortheris and John Learoyd, done into type and edited by Rudyard Kipling."

Sunny, I cannot accept Champions Of Breakfast - not a book at present time.

Probably true, quite possibly worth posting a place-holder if we're allowed up to three entries, or whatever it is that was decided.

This round has no limit for entries.

Eephus, 2013 edition of Everlasting Life is ebook only.

Amazon says it came out in paperback on May 31, 2013

http://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Life-Answers-Questions-Promise/dp/1441242325/ref=sr_1_1_title_0_main?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379442431&sr=1-1&keywords=1441242325

Eephus, thank you. 2013 is good.

ugh!!!

Perfect Pitch by Nicolas Slonimsky (Published 03/17/1988)
Pitch Perfect by Erica Sadun and Steve Sande (Published 5/6/2013)

Ballantyne, R.M. Deep Down: A Tale of the Cornish Mines [either 1868 or 1884}
amazon gives 1884 as the publication date

the British museum also gives 1884 as the publication date but also states that it is the 15th edition

wikipedia has the publication date as 1868

and worldcat also has 1868 as the publication date

Croft, Mike Down Deep 2009
http://www.amazon.com/Down-Deep-Mike-Croft/dp/1846880580

boohoohoohoohoo.

Down down, deeper and down.

Alas

Down Deep - Mike Croft (2008)
Deep Down - R.M Ballantyne (1868)

― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:08 PM (7 hours ago)

And I've had that Status Quo song in my head ever since :(

Tiebreaker is the year-gap between publication of first book and second book.

Now that I think about it, for 'later' book, I don't think it's right to pick most recent edition. 'Hard Times' (1854), 'Oliver Twist' (2013) - that is not a real gap. So 'later' book should be first publication, not date of reprint or paperback edition.

For earlier book, candidate of course wants earliest possible, so no problem with paperback/second printing/etc.

I don't think this changes any current entries by more than a few years, but I think it is right.

All entries valid of course, but if I find e.g. 2007 'Down Deep' by Mike Croft, I will use instead of 2008.

Paceholder as i'm rly busy at work right now:

Black Penny by Phoebe Erickson (1951)
Penny Black by Susan Moody (1984)

OK here's my 2nd go

Kurt Vonnegut - Player Piano (1952)
http://www.amazon.ca/PLAYER-PIANO-Kurt-Vonnegut-Jr/dp/B0006CAW6O

Paul Bisaccia - Piano Player (2013)
http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Player-Memoir-Master-Class/dp/1619272849

The latter appears to be self-published, but there is a print edition available.

Down Deep - Mike Croft (2008)
Deep Down - R.M Ballantyne (1868)
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:08 PM (7 hours ago)

shit, sorry about that

okay I have another comically dumb placeholder but as far as I can tell it meets the rules? So:

Women of History by 'eminent writers' (1866)

History of women: guide to the microfilm collection by Research Publications, inc. et al (1983)

as there isn't much detail in the entry for the first one, here is a contemporary review from the Spectator: http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/21st-july-1866/21/women-of-history-by-eminent-writers-nimmo-edinburg

Not sure if this counts, but

Hope Leslie(1827)

Leslie Hope (2012)

the second book seems to be some kind of copy and pasted by robots from wikipedia type deal, and is currently unavailable, but it says it's a paperback so presumably was on sale as a printed object at some point?

This book was created using print-on-demand technology.

Does this mean they would only print one up if somebody ordered one? Would I have to prove that they actually sold one of these at some point?

If I ordered one myself before Thursday would it be eligible? (not actually going to do this)

Yes, that's what it means. It's literally just a computerised print system that runs off copies of Wiki articles.

brb gonna make a wikipedia article about _Troye of Historyes the of Recuyell_ and win the hell out of this thing

Heeheehee.

Has anyone else ended up on the amazon page for the (sadly ineligible) erotic ebook 'Tat for Tit' during the course of their research?

Earth Mother: Our Womb Of Life, author: your brother (2011)

Mother Earth: Land Grants in Virginia, 1607-1699 author: W. Stitt Robinson (1957

xp ha, no, my hopeless reversals of common phrases usually led me towards awkwardly written scientific papers. not so fun.

Shit man, I didn't realise my brother had written a book.

'Tit for Tat' is the name of a novel published in 1856, so I thought I'd cracked it for a second there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_Tat_(novel)

I did try to find a Leslie Hope book but ended up reading plot summaries of the first season of 24 for ages, which is why I will never be a researcher for reals.

Other works by the same author include 'To Sleep, Perchance to Cream', but I'll stop now, tempting as it is to copy and paste his entire bibliography.

I just want to say that I love this, maps

You are too kind!

Still much research to come :)

Cooking Japanese by Cynthia & Jerome Rubin; Emporium Publications, 1976.

Japanese Cooking: The Traditions, Techniques, Ingredients and Recipes by Emi Kazuko; Southwater, 2013.

Is 'Cooking Japanese' a follow up to the immortal 'To Serve Man'?

History of Philosophy by Julian Marias, 1967

Philosophy of History by Michael C. Lemon, 2003

36 year gap

Is 'Cooking Japanese' a follow up to the immortal 'To Serve Man'?

Heheh. I actually found another pair where one of the titles could be used for a cookery book focusing on a single ingredient in somewhat the same way:

Courses for Horses by Christopher Coldrey; Sporting Book Center, 1978.
Horses for Courses by Anne Holland; Mainstream Publishing, 2005.

(Smaller gap than my previous entry, so this should not be taken as superseding my entry above.)

Life Eternal by Prosper Enfantin, 1920

Eternal Life by Maria Eugenia Martin, 2007

87 year gap

Fark, I think I give up.

if mine doesn't qualify or i manage to lose on a tiebreaker i'll be somewhat grateful, as much as i appreciate SUCCESS i found the long fruitlessness of my search really stressful.

http://archive.org/details/eternalhopefive02farrgoog

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hope-Eternal-Selwyn-Hughes/dp/0805417672/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379504786&sr=1-4&keywords=%22hope+eternal%22

oops

Eternal Hope 1878

Hope Eternal 1998

OK, think I've got it right this time

Eternal Hope: Five Sermons Preached in Westminster Abbey, November and December, 1877 by Frederic William Farrar, 1878

Hope Eternal by
Selwyn Hughes, 1998

120 years apart

Gap extension:

Skin Deep by Jean Jacques Gautier; A. Barker, 1955.
Deep Skin: Elizabeth Bishop and Visual Art by Peggy Samuels; Cornell UP, 2010.

Everlasting Love: A selection of poems / by Cecilia Havergal, J. Denham Smith 1890

Love Everlasting by Joanne Baxter 2000

Changing mine to...

1987: Living High: Daily Marijuana Use Among Adults by Herbert Hendin

1904: High Living: Recipes from Southern Climes by L.L. McLaren

The latter links to a scan. It's got drawings and everything! As the page sez: "Cute goat illustrations"

I found one that I found weirdly amusing, but I'll leave off posting it till later, in case someone else finds it and wants to submit it.

Here is a scan of 'everlasting love'

3rd go, for more years (61 -> 70)

Carter Dickson (John Carr) -- Seeing is Believing (1941)
http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Believing-Carter-Dickson/dp/B000X1X87S

Errol Morris - Believing is Seeing (2011)
http://www.amazon.ca/Believing-Seeing-Observations-Mysteries-Photography/dp/1594203016

(I own the latter and will likely eventually own the former.)

I'm overwhelmed with work and also with self-doubt after being a facepalm creator on ILX for the last 72 months or so, so i'm just going to submit this and if someone else beats the pathetic spread of years, then i deserve to be kicked off and probably to shit on as well

Black on White: Black Writers on What It Means to Be White, edited by David Roediger, 1999
White on Black, Rubén Gallego, published in Russia in 2003, translated and published in English in 2006

i deserve to be kicked off and probably to shit on as well i deserve to be kicked off and probably to shit on as well i deserve to be kicked off and probably to shit on as well i deserve to be kicked off and probably to shit on as well uuuunnnnngggggghhhhhhhhhh

steady the buffs.

btw if I manage to make it to the next round (due to people forgetting to enter) can we do something fun like research the best ever underground Japanese noise band performance?

Vice VersaBY F. ANSTEY, First Edition (Smith, Elder & Co.) June 1882

Versa Vice by Gregory McIlmoyle, Envoi Poets Publications Paperback – July 1989

i looked up some latin phrases too, but empty came up i

ZS, just a small hint, there are other books with the same pair of titles you chose that have a significantly longer stretch of years between them.

Closing soon.

NOT a submission, but here's a curiosity I found along the way:

Basketry: Step-by-Step by Barbara Maynard (1977)

Step-by-step basketry by Rachel Seidel Gilman (1977)

So, uh, if the contest was SHORTEST span, I woulda walked this

Bit bummed that I didn't have to work harder for this round. I guess with so many people in the running to start with any valid entry is enough.

What were people's tactics? Just to come up with a possible reversible phrase and check out if both versions were used for books? I went for finding early books and then filtering down possibilities until I got a hit.

computer trickery

looked at a couple of lists of old books but didn't seem v. fruitful, gradually arrived at a broad template of what kind of words/phrases wd likely form reversible titles then searched for them

Oooh, how so? Algorithm with a library database or something?

xp

This is pretty lame but

Forever Mine: The Moreno Brothers by Elizabeth Reyes (2012)

Mine Forever by Carol Finch (1998)

First I just scraped all the titles from Project Gutenberg and wrote a small program to remove anything that didn't fit the rules etc and look for mirrored titles. That only yielded a single result(!)
Then I found a 1 gigabyte zipfile of book titles, so y'know ... jackpot! I did it the dumb way though, so didn't look up year of release automatically etc -- just took some likely looking candidates and looked them up manually. I'll share some findings later, for curiosity's sake.
I didn't filter out other languages -- so I did get a lot of illegal matches like, uh "wirtschaftswachstum und umweltschutz", "upravlenie i informatsiya", "mennesket og naturen", "marxismo y cristianismo" and "marottes et marionnettes"

oh it's like that is it?

gloves coming off

:O

I use my brain

i.... think i'm not winning this

We're squaring off in some sort of crappy drama series fashion now, warm book larnin vs techno whizkid with no heart

if it is preferred to not do this sort of thing, please tell. When I decided to go about it that way, I did wonder whether it was "fair".

Research is research. Not even close to cheating to do it via computer as far as I'm concerned. I'm impressed, anyway.

i think the rules are "everything's fair if it gets you a correct answer"? which is cool by me. was just trying to introduce a bit of artificial edge

If it were cheating then we'd all have to run to our nearest library and have Maps invigilate while we pore over manuscripts.

Clearly the next step is crowdsourcing

i'm not in this but i love this round. i think paradise lost/lost paradise is probably unbeatable, this is the closest i can come up w/ but it's not the full title:

Urn Burial, Thomas Browne, 1658
Burial Urn, Amil Jaya, 2009

That's cool. I think those are my favorites -- old famous titles where once someone's found it you go "oh yeah, of course!"

i just dropped a book on the tracks of the Hammersmith and City Line at King's Cross. FUCK RESEARCH MAN.

yeah that urn burial is annoyingly good.

I went for finding early books and then filtering down possibilities until I got a hit.

I tried this but for some reason it ended up being a long waste of time. After that I just did the reversible phrases thing with the British Library catalogue.

It's good, but as Ogmor states, it's not allowed for the original date: Hydriotaphia, Urn Burial, or a Discourse of the Sepulchral Urns lately found in Norfolk.

(The 'or a...' bit doesn't matter, as that's a subtitle, it's the 'Hydriotaphia' bit that discounts it.)

not gonna do any research but I'm p sure the actual title was Urne Buriall or something

urne-buriall indeed. interesting how many old books have extra-long original titles i've never heard before

idk if you could argue the true title is paradiſe loſt

Closed! I presume researchers will want to enjoy the weekend, so new round on Monday I think?

Will you tell us who got through before then?

I went for finding early books and then filtering down possibilities until I got a hit.
I tried this but for some reason it ended up being a long waste of time

Ditto!

Bugger, I knew I'd get too busy to do this.

A coworker pointed out to that romance novels are a gold mine for this challenge but I refrained

Barbara Cartland novels would probably have been a good bet. My approach was to try to think of relatively early genre writers who just churned out material every couple of months, excluding plays, journals, pamphlets, etc (although it looks like plays in printed form might have been accepted). Ballantyne was one of the big ones, i guess.

My favorite find, I think:

1941: Crisis in civilization: a message on completing his eighty years
by Rabindranath Tagore

1988: Civilization in Crisis: A Christian Response to Homosexuality, Feminism, Euthanasia, and Abortion
by Richard A Fowler

Oh yeah! And ....

Dalekie gody, blizkie gody: Rasskazy by Miervaldis Birze (1988)
Gody blizkie, gody dalekie: Rasskazy i povesti by IUri, Fomich Pomozov (1976)

Short common phrases were a good idea, also certain words. Phrases with "in", "for" and "of" also good.
"Living", "Love" and "Lost" seems to have been the best word to look for in two-word titles.

Some other popular words ...

'women for votes'
'women in pain'
'women in stress'
'women of god'
'women of prayer'
'women of war'
'women on men'
'women without men'

'crisis in china'
'crisis in civilization'
'crisis in education'
'crisis in egypt'
'crisis in india'
'crisis in industry'
'crisis in iran'
'crisis in ireland'
'crisis in japan'
'crisis in pakistan'
'crisis in planning'
'crisis in quebec'

'historia de tiempos'
'history as education'
'history as literature'
'history in africa'
'history in art'
'history in images'
'history in music'
'history in schools'
'history of animals'
'history of culture'
'history of ideas'
'history of philosophy'

'murder for magic'
'murder for money'
'murder or mercy'
'murder or suicide'
'murder times two'
'murder with malice'
'murder with orchids'
'murder without crime'

I found no titles longer than 4 words. Some of the 4-word ones were
high mountain deep river
devotions day by day
dot to dot dinosaur

Oh yeah, and I liked this set of titles...

'paradise island'
'paradise lost'
'paradise plundered'
'paradise poisoned'
'paradise prairie'

I found Dog Magic and Magic Dog.

But then it turned out Magic Dog was somehow one word. Magicdog. KoR.

fifty shades island
fifty shades lost
fifty shades plundered
fifty shades poisoned
fifty shades prairie

Should've gone for Magic Cat instead

(why yes I do have a file of 6973 candidates (well, divide by two))

A lot of them have "and" in various languages though.

(uhh 6972 ... hi Øystein!)

hi!

"Or" is good for grimness.

'death or liberty'
'endangered or extinct'
'chaos or community'
'mercy or murder'
'suicide or murder'

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Cl6a3FwZL._SY346_.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dprBDPLDL._SL500_SY346_.jpg

multi lol

Lol, amazing.

Hahahaha

My method was simply to try to beat a recent entry -- jbn's 1890 one -- by going through lists of classics picking likely candidates predating that. I found my entry pretty quickly. The gap was actually a few years less than jbn's, as it turned out, but it was clearly going to be good enough.

I went for finding early books and then filtering down possibilities until I got a hit.

yeah i did this to start with. googled stuff like "early printed english books" and glanced through the various lists google threw up and investigated likely candidates. there weren't many. and then i just thought of paradise lost and was like duhhh surely there is some shlocky modern romance called lost paradise

Ailsa - 14 years
Noodle Vague - 87 years
Conrad - 222 years
Lex - 341 years
Trayce - No entry
Blandford - 115 years
Mordy - 88 years
Emil.y - 238 years
Fizzles - 33 years
Eyeball Kicks - 50 years
Moodles - 14 years
JBN - 54 years
Oystein - 83 years
Merdeyeux - 117 years
Abanana - 70 years
Anatol_M - 55 years
eephus - 112 years
Sunny Successor - 25 years
Z S - 7 years
bends - 120 years
ShariVari - 140 years
zvookster - 107 years
Tuomas - 294 years

Unbelievable! Z S and Trayce out, but 3rd ejection is matter of months between Ailsa and Moodles. I must research - can candidates help?

Congratulations to Lex for round winner and to Oystein for truly special research!

(Rules for tiebreaker of tiebreaker - I currently assume all 4 books were published on July 2 at noon (middle day of year), so any evidence that extends/shrinks gap for any of the 4 books can break the tie)

Open Doors - Date of Publication is 03/03/1994

"Ian Rankin’s new book Doors Open will be available in bookstores across the UK on Saturday 16th September"

So 14 years, 6 months, 13 days.

Forever Mine (The Moreno Brothers, #1)
by Elizabeth Reyes (Goodreads Author)
3.93 of 5 stars 3.93 avg rating — 12,766 ratings — published 2010

Moodles is out!

So sad, but not surprised

i got what i deserved!

hey maps what was wrong with my entry for Everlasting Love and Love Everlasting?

Jbn sorry! I confused it with Life Everlasting by other candidate. You are 110 years, not 54.

Sad for our brother, that he is no longer needed.

Wait 3 people are ditched per round?

First round is casting, then each round one candidate is knocked out

I vote for some reinstatements, having researched the rules - I would take it from that at worst Trayce knocked out for not entering and then the lowest participant with an actual entry goes out too (though surely Trayce not entering an answer makes her the one to be knocked out and keeps everyone else safe). Putting me and moodles to a tiebreak seems unfair, I'd have actually tried harder had I not assumed I was safe with the rules the way they were.

Mm, I kind of think that's fair as there wasn't warning that this round would knock out multiple entrants, though next round should probably be more knocked out if we're going to get through it before the year ends.

23 candidates to be king! Next round, 3 out.

― Maps, Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:55 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe it could have been more clear, but Maps did mention it.

Oh, okay. I retract!

Ha, I fail at researching the actual thread. Goalpostshifting is a bit suss though.

'One out' was original plan, but I did not expect 26 kings. But even in original tournament, sometimes two out in a round ('division' system), so I think there is a precedent!

Next time I will bold how many are out, so all can see.

Welcome back!

Round 3
This round is athlete round - feared of Lex! In this round, candidates must find an athlete. Athlete must have represented their country, either in a team sport against another nation, or in the olympic games. Give convincing citation! Also, athlete must be best-known by a name of form (givenname familyname) - no Ronaldo or Park Ji Sung. Sport must be a physical sport - no chess or birdwatching.

Tiebreaker is google matches for athlete's name in speechmarks. Least matches, most obscure athlete, is best.

Citation cannot be based on work of another candidate. So, if A. finds teamsheet for 1933 under-21 croquet fixture, B. cannot piggyback and enter name from the same sheet. Rule of manners!

Two candidates will go out this round, so we will have 18 after deadline. Deadline is Wednesday noon!

Tiebreaker is google matches for athlete's name in speechmarks. Least matches, most obscure athlete, is best.

This is a bit confusing... What if another person, or many persons, shares a name with the obscure athlete? How do we tell which Google results are for the athlete?

Tuomas, no way to tell! So all matches count. Athlete called Bloggs, no good, even if very obscure.

Are we allowed multiple entries again?

EK - I had not thought about. Let us try limit 5, as an experiment. There are many obscure athletes, so should be no shortage. But we can see if it reduces discussion to cap entries at 5 per candidate.

I'm not completely sure I understand the rules so please let me know if I've done this correctly:

Christos Zekhouritis represented Greece in the 1904 St. Louis Olympic marathon and finished 10th. 35 results according to google, including a book that contains his picture (The Olympic Marathon, by David E. Martin). I found his ranking in marathon results listed in George R. Matthews America's First Olympics: The St. Louis Games of 1904 on p. 143.

(That's 35 results w/out quotation marks. With quotation marks there are only 8 references to this athlete on google.)

One of the problems you are going to have in this round is obscurity stemming from varied transliterations. For example, "Kharilaos Giannakas", who represented Greece at Walking in the 1904 Olympics, gets 81 hits. "Charilaos Giannakas" gets 223.

Like Mordy, first place I went was the Greek 1904 Olympic team!

Hmmm, difficult! Let me think about a good solution.

Do sources have to be in English?

so here's a marker

Christopher Heseltine

About 5,550 results (0.35 seconds)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Heseltine

English fast bowler

I guess simplest rule - use name given in citation, assuming citation is good enough. So if citation given uses "Kharilaos", 81. Otherwise, 223?

Oystein, no, but if non-English please provide guide to relevant paragraph, so I can try to translate!

OK, but for example Mordy's answer is given on the site I looked at as ""Khristos Zekhouritis", which gets a lot more hits. It could be the winner becomes the person who can find a spelling mistake in an otherwise reputable place.

Okay, alternative - if rival (or me) can find proof that candidate is better known by another name, that name used instead?

So not quite as good as 8 hits, but Khristos Zekhouritis is still only 85 on google.

Heikki Åhlman represented Finland in various sports in the 1906 Summer Olympics.

Google results for his name are 192.

William Brennaugh, Canadian lacrosse player from the 1904 Olympics

About 1,350 results (0.39 seconds)

oh shit, looked up a coworker who has a unique name & got 8000 hits. What good is having sporty co-workers if they ain't obscure! Even has her own Wikipedia article.

Tuomas, there weren't any summer olympics in 1906...

Should I have shut up about that and let Tuomas be knocked out? I'm not sure I get the rules of helping/hindering here.

Okay, Summer Games, whatever you wanna call them...

Athlete must have represented their country, either in a team sport against another nation, or in the olympic games.

It doesn't have to be the olympic games, any team sport with nations against another is valid.

Dimitrios Hatziioanoglou played for the Greek football team against Switzerland on 12 May 1971. He failed to impress and was substituted in the 74th minute.

Sources: Japanese version of UEFA's website - http://jp.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=1972/matches/round=187/match=3748/,
11v11.com - http://www.11v11.com/matches/switzerland-v-greece-12-may-1971-231335/
scoresway.com - http://www.scoresway.com/?sport=soccer&page=match&id=627581

He gets 39 results when I search.

But anyway, I found an even better example:

In the 2006 Pesäpallo World Cup, Tanya Kankaanniemi represented Australia. (As that link shows, she was chosen as the best player for the Australian team.) Google gives you 68 results for "Tanya Kankaanpää".

If you're wondering what "pesäpallo" is, it's a Finnish variation of baseball that also played in some other countries.

So I think this should be a valid entry?

i fear 'foreign' characters may scupper this

"Heikki Åhlman" = 189 results
"Heikki Ahlman" = 800 more

the greek athletes too, i'm betting you'll get a lot more results searching in greek.

Sorry, I misspelled "Kankaanpää" as "Kankaanniemi" in the first sentence. The Google search link is for the real name, so 68 results is correct.

ah, OK, didn't realise the 1906 games were a thing. Fair enough.

i fear 'foreign' characters may scupper this

"Heikki Åhlman" = 189 results
"Heikki Ahlman" = 800 more

"Å" and "a" are two totally different letters with different pronounciations though, and Åhlman and Ahlman are two different families.

"Edmond Schmilowitch" played for Israel in their 3-1 defeat of Cyprus on 30 July 1949.
http://www.11v11.com/matches/israel-v-cyprus-30-july-1949-225722/

5 results.

Ah man, it feels like cheating.

Hmm, I think maybe this round needs to change, before it is too late!

If you do search for name which "ä" or "ö", i.e. letters that Anglos usually write with "a" and "o", Google does actually include results where the "ä" and "ö" are replaced with "a" and "o". So, if you, for example, take my entry, googling for Tanya Kankaanpaa gives you the same 68 results as Tanya Kankaanpää.

(xxpost)

"Edmond Schmilovich" has a bit over 1,000 results, EK.

Maps, I think you should simply rule out athletes from countries that don't use Latin alphabet (Greece, Russia, China, etc), that would solve the transliteration problem.

peder planting finnish fencer 1980 olympics 1280 results

(xpost)

Edmond Schmilovich appears to be the correct variation.

the greek athletes too, i'm betting you'll get a lot more results searching in greek.

― koogs, Monday, September 23, 2013 8:46 AM (18 minutes ago)

Not necessarily. A search for Χρήστος Ζεχουρίτης returned only 4 results.

"Edmond Schmilovich" has a bit over 1,000 results, EK.

I'll go for "Itzhak Gambasch" from the same game and source then - 3 results.

Hmm. I think maybe it's better to close this round and re-open tomorrow morning with clearer rules? From last time I know that bad rules only get worse as round goes forwards. My fault!

What do candidates think?

xp Itzhak Gambash gets more than 1000 though.

Yes, clearer rules please!

fine by me

Yeah, it's cool. The entries posted today still remain reserved for the people who posted them, right?

Okay!

ROUND CLOSED - reopens Tuesday morning with clearer rules!

Sorry to all candidates :( Thank you to fast researchers who made flaws of this round clear.

Another clarification - meaning of team sport. Do things like a 4x100 relay team count, but individual athletics events, eg discus, don't, even if that person is part of their national athletics team at something like the Commonwealth games (i.e. not at the Olympics, as per Tuomas' Summer Games)?

A couple of things to clarify:

Would a wiki citation that someone was selected for the squad of an international championship that has already taken place be enough?

Which Google results should be pointed to - the initial search or the advanced search that also includes duplicates and cached pages?

Thanks ailsa and ShariVari. All hints on what to clarify are very helpful!

I guess clarification on what representing your country means would be useful too - do you need to enter the field of play or do unused squad members count?

If it's not too much of a nuisance I'd like to have a placeholder down as I have a plane to catch tomorrow morning. I might have to take the risk it's later declared ineligible.

Tuvalu's futsal star Paitela Kelemne has six primary search results despite apparently being their top scorer at the 2008 Oceana Futsal Championship.

http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/News/ViewArticle/tabid/125/Article/2a4da4be-5bec-4f33-a301-f99cf7e727c2/Default.aspx

busy tomorrow so bit of a placeholder

Hariniony Andrimananarivo represented Madagascar in Fed Cup tennis this year - link goes to the team's 0-3 tie against Liechtenstein, in which she played the doubles rubber alongside Nantenaina Ramalalaharivololona. 67 google results.

In related news, I love Malagasy names.

aw I was going to try to find some once-capped Malagasy footballer so I could have a beautiful name as well as a good entry, but now that it wouldn't be unique it's lost its appeal.

as I too may have a couple of busy days ahead I'll offer up: Alick Santhy, footballer who represented Vanuatu in the 1990 Melanesian Games.

(I suppose I wonder if that along with the other problems the challenge in this format may also be a bit easy? We could have a lot of 2s, 3s, 4s.)

(oh, four results.)

While researching this morning I came across this article which seemed relevant and maybe as interesting to other ppl as it was to me:
http://www.isoh.org/articles/36.pdf

Okay, well I'm putting in my place-holder in case it still tallies with the accepted rules once the round re-opens: Yulia Chestakovitch, who represented Russia in the FINA synchronized swimming world cup 2002 - as part of the team, not solo.

Google gives 2 results for her name, although weirdly says it is only providing one. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww#hl=en&q=%22yulia+chestakovitch%22&safe=off

Placeholder: Ghyslaine Nke, who has four caps for the Equatorial Guinean women's football team. 61 results on Google.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ghyslaine+Nke&oq=Ghyslaine+Nke&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=%22Ghyslaine+Nke%22

Re: Yulia Chestakovich / Shestakovich:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/22/russia

!!!!

Ok!

(New) Round 3

I wanted to keep themes of 'obscure athlete' and 'google tiebreaker', but solve problems of transliteration and 'list of marathon runners'. Sorry to all who made placeholders!

So, in this round, candidates must find sporting 'match' between two players or teams. Match can be 1v1 or in teams, but not more than two teams present - for example, Ryder Cup golf is valid, but open golf is no good. Match can be at any level, no need for international or famous.

In this match, two athletes with the same surname must compete against each other. Surname is whatever citation(s) say it is. Proof must be given that both played in the match (no unused substitute), but candidates need not prove that they played at the same time.

Tiebreaker is fewest matches for surname (in speechmarks).

So, for example:
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278376 - Smith vs Smith
"Smith" = 922,000,000 results

Final twist, to hinder cheap trick - if any other candidate (or me) can find evidence that rival players are siblings, google results for surname are doubled.

--

Because of delayed start, round is extended to end of Thursday. Bottom 2 - out!

I don't think the transliteration problem is fully solved here, people are still gonna look for matches with non-Western surnames, as those will probably get you less Google results.

On the other hand, it's going to be fairly hard to find good matches for obscure non-Western surnames.

Tuomas, you are right, but I think if candidates can find citation for sporting rivals with same oddly-transliterated surname, more power to them.

Silviya Zhelyazkova d. Lora Zhelyazkova 6-7, 4-3 retired, in the second qualifying round of the 2007 Kenana Cup, Bulgaria (a grade 5 junior ITF tournament). I know they're not sisters, but I guess proof is that Silviya was born in September 1992 and Lora was born in April 1992.

Click on "results" then the bottom "qualifying draw" link for proof of the match (the top set of results are for the boys' tournament). Click on each of their names for proof of birth dates.

"Zhelyazkova" has about 115,000 results.

(is that what you meant Maps?)

Lex, perfect! So much for busy.

took me under 10 mins of canny googling to find that one!

(it helps to be into a particular sport enough to know my way around its online databases)

(Small clarification for candidates - "match" requires level of formality where there is referee/umpire at least. So no "I often play foosball with my friend, Peter Mzyzyyyqz")

Silly but fun placeholder:

"A football match where all 22 players, referee, linesmen and reserves shared the same name of Bungay has taken place in the town of Bungay in Suffolk."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9251332/Bungay-vs-Bungay-all-22-football-players-share-the-same-name.html

"Bungay", despite being a pretty rare name, still gets 1,930,000 results.

Real entry now.

Boxing: Lovemore N'dou vs Phillip N'dou

They fought on July 11, 2009.

Since that article is just a preview of the fight, confirmation that the fight went ahead can be found on Lovemore's record page here: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14180&cat=boxer.

137,000 results for N'dou I should say.

Wikipedia seems to suggest the spelling is "Ndou", though. It's also spelled "Ndou" on the boxing results pages you link to. "Ndou" gets you 551 000 Google results.

Surname is whatever citation(s) say it is.

Both wiki articles have N'dou as the titles and entering the surnames without the apostrophes gives you

Phillip N'dou
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Phillip Ndou)

Well yeah, but the match results EK links to spell the name as "Ndou". I assume the match results are the actual citation, not the Wikipedia page?

I remember Phillip N'Dou fighting Mayweather and it was spelled with an apostrophe at the time.

Both boxers omit the apostrophe in their twitter accounts so idk :/

Okay, here's my entry:

Axel Valavaara and Aron Valavaara have played against in several Finnish junior cups. Here's a link to one such cup result, but if you click on their names, you see that they have competed against each other in other games too.

I can't find any definite info on it, but I assume the two are brothers, since they represent the same rather small tennis club. Google results for Valavaara is 11,500 entries, so that times two is 23,000.

Is it okay to use a Finnish page? I couldn't find any English page with the same info, but if you put the page I linked to through Google translate, you should see that it's valid.

Sorry, forgot to mention the sport, it's tennis.

N'dou is valid by "whatever citation says" rule, which I think is the rule for better or worse! So happy with 137,000.

So the citation doesn't have to be the actual results page? If we find another page where the name is spelled in some unusual variation, that is a valid citation, even though in the game results it's spelled differently?

Also, on the Wikipedia page of Lovemore N'Dou/Ndou, the surname is spelled "N'Dou" in the title, but "Ndou" everywhere else in the text.

I am super busy this week but here is my placeholder: Bengie and Yadier Molina played against each other

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Molina-brothers-have-long-awaited-reunion-2601252.php

Molina has 92,000,000 hits and they're brothers so 184 x 10^6!

(I'm sorry about this Eyeball Kicks, I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but I think the rules here need a bit of clarification.)

Candidates must compile a complete case that the match happened, using all the same name. If a parallel case can be made, using a different spelling, it does not invalidate.

I wouldn't wanna be knocking anyone else out by claiming 137,000 so I'm OK with the big number - hopefully, it won't make any difference anyway.

Besides, no matter what the rules say, "N'dou vs N'dou" gets 4 results, while "Ndou vs Ndou" gets nearly 2,000. That's pretty decisive.

Tuomas is right that the wikipedia page uses both names, so perhaps it's better if EK can find citation that is consistent. But will very likely be a valid entry.

Okay, but in all the match results EK links to, the name is spelled "Ndou". It's only the Wikipedia pages where it's spelled "N'dou", but they don't mention this particular match, and even there the name is spelled inconsistently, being "N'dou" in the title and "Ndou" in the actual text.

So, which pages can we use to compile "complete case"? Only pages that refer to the match/game? Or any other pages where the name of the athlete is mentioned?

(xxpost)

You are right - I googled and found some alternative citations that would work, but to find them is his job. So I will use higher score of 551,000 unless EK resubmits his case.

"mayweather vs n'dou"
About 53,500 results (0.37 seconds)

"mayweather vs ndou"
About 16,400 results (0.15 seconds)

Tuomas, the only citation is absolutely required is the one proving that the match happened, and that the rivals competed. All else is for politeness and for interest of other candidates.

So the spelling to Google is the one used in the match/game results page? And if Wikipedia or some other page offers an alternate spelling, that doesn't matter?

Valavaara - I could find no evidence that they are brothers! Could be cousins, even father vs son. So I am happy to count as 11,500, unless other other candidate can.

I don't think they're a father and a son, since they both play in the kids' league... :) But I guess you're right, they could be cousins or something.

The spelling to google is the one submitted by the candidate, unless that spelling is a clear error or typo, which even then is only invalid because it diminishes the value of the citation.

In the case of N'dou, genuine ambiguity exists, so no problem with submission of either entry.

Tuomas when I click your Valavaara citation I get

"Unknown ExType: 'UNHANDLED_ERROR'
IP verification error"

I am trying hard to kill ghost of "not the standard transliteration" and I think this is the best way.

Tuomas when I click your Valavaara citation I get

"Unknown ExType: 'UNHANDLED_ERROR'
IP verification error"

That's weird, the link works for me. Try this one, does that work for you?

I haaaaate spoooooort

Yes, that one's fine. Thanks.

6-1 6-1 - Looks like Axel has a bigger future than his (possible) brother.

I haaaaate spoooooort

Lucky that round is early, while field still has weakness!

Okay, my first try. Pakistan Kabaddi match 2013. Two teams, four players called "Waahla". Tajamal is on separate team to Murtaza, Saaghar, and Muhsin.

"Waahla" has about 7,860 results. They may be siblings but I'm not sure, anyone who wants to try to prove it can do so.

That's weird, I get 81,000 results for "Waahla"...

Seriously, it's 7,860 from here: safe search is off so that's not killing any pages. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22waahla%22&safe=off

You get 7,860 if you put the single word in quote marks. Odd.

Not so odd. Without the quote marks, Google also returns hits such as "Waah la gueule | Facebook" etc.

Looks like you searched for "Waahla" in quotation marks, whereas I searched for Waahla without the quotes. Apparently that's the reason for the difference, though I don't get why?

(xxpost)

About 7,860 results (0.37 seconds)

(xp)

Hm. Yes, Valavaara seems to differ if you put it in quote marks too, but only by ~100 results, not tens of thousands.

Not using quotes includes "Waah la" in the search (worth 75,000 results).

So my result with quotes is valid?

You need to use quotes in google searches even for single words if you want to search for only the exact term you input.

I'm not sure I've actually these in the same match, but will try:

Two brothers, Maxime & Antoine Hoppenot - this article has Maxime scoring against the team for which they mention his brother as a supersub for the opposing team, which suggests to me that he might have been subbed on in ths same match.

I mostly wanted to include it because of Antoine's "unusual details in Wikipedia page" details that "he's friends with Mike".

215000 x 2 = 430000 results. Will try and get a better one.

emil,y - maps did specify that it was the result using quotes that counted, so yes you're in the lead I think.

YUSS! IN YOUR FACE, SPORT.

"Traded to FC Barcelona for Messi on August 16, 2013"

Are cousins OK - is is just siblingness that doubles the score?

xpost, ha, I never even noticed that, was just reading up to see if his brother was mentioned!

Rule said siblings only, so cousins okay.

But I think Hoppenot needs more evidence - I need proof that both brothers played in the match. Proof must be given that both played in the match (no unused substitute), but candidates need not prove that they played at the same time.

OK, I will render the N'dou controversy irrelevant.

Brothers Sam & Andrew Krenzien played against each other in some kind of US college soccer game on 16 August 2012.
Evidence here: http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=205607211

"Krenzien" gets 56,000 results, and double that = 112,000.

OK, here's my real answer:

http://www.ncaa.com/news/tennis-men/article/2013-05-25/brothers-and-competitors

Esben and Soren Hess-Oleson are twin brothers and linked article says they have played NCAA tennis matches against each other.

56,900 results x2 = 113,800.

Carnegie Challenge Cup quarter-final 31 May 2008
Leeds Rhinos 23-16 Wigan Warriors

Kylie Leuluai for Leeds
Thomas Leuluai for Wigan Warriors

"Leuluai" - About 146,000 results

brb just making a bunch of wordpress blogs and setting them to autopost "Krenzien" every twenty minutes

ALL'S FAIR IN KING OF RESEARCH

Eephus, can you submit a citation for a match where Hess-Oleson brothers competed? I agree that the article says they have played, but rules require citation of a particular match.

(I'm sure this entry will be fine, just trying to be very clear about requirements)

Yeah, here we go

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2012/02/soren_hessolesen_emerged_as_clear_winner_over_his_twin_in_mens_tennis_unctexas_match

Thank you!

[T]he Changeaux cousins are used to going head-to-head. Last year when the Mustangs snapped an eight-game losing streak to the Hornets with a 22-14 victory, Tre remembers playing offense and seeing his cousin on defense.

"Changeaux" - About 19,600 results

Can you submit multiple entries? I have been sitting on an improvement to my last one all day, but thought it wasn't in the spirit of the thing to bombard the competition.

I think Maps said we had five goes this round.

I assumed this applied from the initial round 3 challenge:

Let us try limit 5, as an experiment.

xpost

aw damn it, I just found the Changeaux one! May have to settle for a multi-million result placeholder here...

or can I be a RITE DICK and use another one from the same page WHICH I SWEAR I FOUND INDEPEDENTLY? San Marin running back David Marinoff will face his brother Thomas, who is a defensive back for Novato - "Marinoff" - About 321,000 results

v shit placeholder:

"GEBREMEDHIN"

About 477,000 results (0.12 seconds)

Result National Championship, Road, Elite, Eritrea 2011

40 Simon GEBREMEDHIN ERI +6:23

19 Awit GEBREMEDHIN ERI 19 +4:01

Not brothers as far as i can tell.

balls 'open golf is no good' suspect rules this out. brb.

conrad, I get 'file not found' on that link.

Yes, 5 goes this round.

Merdeyeux - the same!

Fizzles, yes, such a race does not apply.

hm, odd. here's a cached version - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GTOGc6k6syIJ:www.marinij.com/ci_19250747+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

so do I! how strange - it was there when I linked to it and seems like opie dead eyed piece of shit could see it too

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GTOGc6k6syIJ:www.marinij.com/ci_19250747+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

xpost

Merdeyeux - that works! But it only says such a match will happen, not that it did. Perhaps there was a storm!