Looking (new HBO series that seems like Girls but with gay men instead)

I had high hopes when I heard about it because the guy behind Weekend is involved but after reading more about it, my expectations have gone down a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0g-YokWb4M

Let the thinkpieces begin.

this is prob gonna be stupid but there should at least be some bare ass

solitary posts etc

I will get v excited abt this and prob become extremely disgusted with it 5 minutes into the first episode

There hasn't been a single show about Gay Life on cable that hasn't made me want to make lascivious remarks to the first chick I see.

Weekend was an entirely respectable film and kinda bored me.

J0rdan possibly otm

Best case scenario is I guess something like I Want Your Love.

They did quite a bit of shooting in my neighborhood.

A series set in 1996 gay SF would be more interesting (since the '70s have already been done with Tales).

New trailer with actual footage and stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawZGuGHDWo

Hm, there's a chance this might not suck.

for my sins i liked both of those webseries Hunting Season and The Outs. I'll probably watch anything along these lines. The Outs was better and the main guy was much cuter but Hunting Season had cocks and i like seeing those too.

fwiw i thought Weekend was the irritating wish fulfilment fantasy of a gay man who chases straight men. There's no way the main guy in Weekend was gay, It just wasn't believable. I mean the guy was mega hot so whatever.

Glad to see Russell Tovey is in this.

fwiw i thought Weekend was the irritating wish fulfilment fantasy of a gay man who chases straight men

Ughhhh do not want to open up the question as to why the main guy in Weekend wasn't believably gay because that's the kind of thinking that might doom something like Looking, or any queer-centered narrative, that there are innate qualities to being gay and male, beyond being attracted to men

But I guess I just opened it up

we should at least mention that Sean Hayes is back to playing gay parts, i wonder why

there are innate qualities to being gay and male, beyond being attracted to men

I'll even do you one better. There are innate qualities to being gay and male, without being attracted to men.

Either way, "believably gay" irked me.

Well, the actor is straight. I know actors act and his performance us decent in most ways but there's not a scintilla of actual gayness about him. I simply didn't believe it. He's a fantasy figure of completely straight man who is actually gay.

There are innate qualities to being gay and male without being attracted to men.

Just in case, you're partly serious, no. The British scholar-writer Mark Simpson made me an absolutist on this in the '90s. ie, "What I have in common with you lot is a taste for cock, full stop."

I am fully serious.

Full stop.

so, what are these qualities?

It need not be anything so prescriptive and you don't need to make a list if qualities imo. Suffice to say that of the many thousands of gay men I've met I've actually been surprised to discover someone is gay a total of maybe 3 or 4 times yet you only have to look at online dating profiles to know how pervasive the fantasy of a gay man without any discernible gay qualities actually is "straight acting only"! "no camp guys"! For the most part It's not even a case of seeking a straight man who has sex with men but of seeking a straight man who'll have sex with *you*.

well my old joke is ya can't be straight acting with a dick in your mouth.

And you can be without one in your mouth. How is this a complicated concept?

bcz mine (ok, not specifically that, but you get me) is the defining quality.

OK, I'm going to do us all a favor and divest from all the gay threads that don't involve cherishing disco and All About Eve.

just BDSM and Husker Du for me

white white white?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hbo-looking-gay-men-diversity-20131115,0,6241978.story

i guess this is going to be a typical fencesitting post for me, but I hear both sides.

I think the gay longing for straightness is complicated, and swirls together all kinds of emotions and desires that aren't just self-hatred, but I do grasp why it would be "irritating" to see that dynamic play itself out: overfamiliar, political retrograde, mildly embarrassing. Because it does look like a kind of self-deligitimizing move to lose desire for someone as you soon as you see that they are in the very category in which you already belong (more or less, no one ever fully feels this without some dis-identification too).

I dunno. The affair I had a few years back with a dude who up to that point had only had sex with women (and who since our thing has gone back to women) kind of changed my mind about this whole issue. I don't think people are as predictably locatable as I once did. I think at the time I was turned on by his "straightness", even though that very straightness was being undone by what we were doing. So I get the idea that that can be appealing, and that it gives an edge (in fantasy) to real experience.

As for acting, it's frustrating to think of this kind of isometric one-identity-per-customer model in which people can't act across orientation without worrying about minstrelsy or phoniness- are we that confident in our gaydar? What do people here make of, say, John Hurt's performance as Quentin Crisp? Or Heath Ledger vs Jake Gyllenhaal in Brokeback for that matter?

reminds me of how long it's been since queer as folk was on (the us version). has it really been that long since there's been a dedicated series about teh gays? L Word I guess.

white white white?

Nope, nope, nope.

And this is decidedly not Weekend, insofar as it centers around anything remotely like a specious straight archetype. It goes too far in the opposite direction for my taste maybe, but I'm not going to panic that this isn't my life. Weekend wasn't either.

To clarify, the "opposite direction" I'm referring to isn't that the characters are the opposite of a "straight archetype" (i.e. super femme gay or something like that), but rather that they are too wholly defined by their sex drives. Thus far, anyway.

As in, the only str8 person in sight is an archetypal fagh -- uh, fruitfly?

Well, no.

Just that none of these characters are sheltered except for Patrick, who's beyond openly gay but doesn't seem ready to act on it.

"sheltered"? This is another word with a new meaning I don't know, maybe?

when does this debut?

This Sunday after Girls.

cheers.

Don't know if it's because of low expectations or what, but I really liked the pilot.

Eric wrote something really good about it. He should post it here.

I'm slow to post links of my own stuff, but since you asked: http://www.slantmagazine.com/tv/review/looking-season-one

I'm not certain what I'll think about this as they flesh out the story lines more but I'll give it one thing; the versimilitude is excellent. It feels very much like the SF I live in.

It's telling of the state of Art For Gays in 2014 that one of the criticisms of Looking that I've heard more than once (whether from Rich Juzwiak, whom I've grown to trust less and less on anything as time goes on, or from that awful Esquire post I'm not linking to) is that it's boring. It's the most pointed example that nothing about the community they portray can be enough for everyone in that community, not like I'm complaining about that complaint (since there are valid criticisms to be made of this show). I dunno, it's "damned if they do, damned if they don't" cause like, someone seriously suggested that they would have rather had a "gay SATC"? And, besides how there's probably something like that on Bravo/Logo already, I could already imagine the backlash if they made that their approach.

Sorry for the parentheses, etc.

(also, I would consider myself a fan of SATC though not the movies, just to be clear)

good pilot, i'm on board for S1

never seen an episode of SATC

1st 2 seasons of SATC weren't utter bullshit.

I feel like the Esquire guy only likes his gays to be flamboyant. One of the things I liked about the pilot was how it felt like SF and not a stupid sitcom. It's only boring if you treat gay men as a camp commodity to be ignored when they're doing boring ordinary stuff like 'looking', dating, you know, being human.

i liked this... there was some nitpicky stuff i rolled my eyes at (a scene ending with "i can't even with you" & A HERCULES & LOVE AFFAIR SONG) but the acting was really good and the episode was well constructed.

i thought the first date scene was especially great

If the characters were as unbearable as Girls I wouldn't go near this (LD & Co being hets is the saving grace)

oh i didn't find the characters insufferable at all

a bit drab maybe but it's been one episode

i was little annoyed at mentions of INSTAGRAM/FACEBOOK/OKCUPID being so central to the dialogue and even the plot

1st date scene was excellent

I get knee-jerk reactions to any mentions of technology but I'd rather they acknowledge that technology is central to our lives rather than not.

i would almost find it weirder if their first date wasn't planned on okcupid

at least there was no scene where they talk about a fake grindr called "twistr" or something

right i get that, i just think its kind of awkward and clunky

xp lol

INSTAGRAM/FACEBOOK/OKCUPID

You guys know this is set in SF, right? That kind of talk tends to dominate a lot of local conversations right now. It may or may not be central to our lives, but it's surely central to a lot of ppl's paychecks.

Not to mention the lead character works at a video game company.

This is so totally nothing like Girls at all; I feel like I find it a lot less engaging and relatable too? Like I mean in this show I feel like I see aspects of my life as a gay man whereas in Girls I see parts of my life in its entirety. Though I guess it's hard to make judgments like that after a single episode.

idk I'm really wary of it and I also kind of find myself like looking for reasons to hate it.

I enjoyed the first ep well enough

also: many xxxposts Eric I really liked your review! your final point really stuck with me

A second watching of the pilot revealed that the opening handy guy wasn't quite a "troll," as my editor countered, but given the surrounding cast, he may as well have been.

xp thanks!

Opening handy guy was by and far the hottest guy in the episode. Are we really supposed to see him as "troll-like"? Like is this the target demographic?

Well, he gets called "gym teacher hairy," which the oldest of the trio says "could be kinda hot." And then they all laugh. So at least in the eyes of the main characters, he's not the hottest guy in the episode.

There's also a much more damning throwaway moment when Groff's checking himself out in a window's reflection before his OKC date and ends up mistakenly locking eyes with a 45-ish businessman with no exercise ethic, before turning on his heels and grimacing. Horrors!

yeah I was kinda rmde at that too

Like I get it, it's a show about gay people, and gay people are so often first and foremost about hotness and attractiveness, so I guess it's par the course, but I am at this point in my life where I find this trend so fucking distasteful

First date scene was great, the chemistry between actors + the camerawork was really good

The scene with the azn guy, I was like that looks a lot like a guy I went to school with and who was in the same circles I was

Looked it up and holy shit it's him

He sounds nothing like that irl tho

I watched this with my roommate and she was like "why is every guy on this show so fucking cute"

but I am at this point in my life where I find this trend so fucking distasteful

And yet, I feel the show could eventually go somewhere interesting with this impulse. Especially if it gets honest with the ghettoization its characters seem to "enjoy."

Meaning, I too find it distasteful, and I am very much guilty of perpetuating it. If the show delves into the self-loathing that is the obvious byproduct of this split, I'll be impressed.

Also I felt the conversation about the facebook friend dilemma felt true-to-life and I've had those conversations before

The instagram thing though, yeah, that was trash

ugh I wish I had HBO for this sort of thing.

It's interesting how we read complaints about depictions about gay life just as Gay Life becomes more fragmented. Even before Lawrence vs Texas it was fragmented!

Also, we've reached the point where gays and straights both using the same dating services with regularity.

I guess what I'm asking for is ...

http://erinmkenna.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/m225662226.jpg

;D

you've never been to you

won't see the show til it hits library DVD, but Groff kinda makes me grimace, as Broadway twinks usually do.

I have no idea what gay men act like these days.

Twelve years ago "Queer as Folk" presented the fantasy envisioned by straights: we gay men hang out with maternal lesbians, take our shirts off in clubs, and fuck Matt Damon-esque twinks, somethings four a night. Now we have another fantasy, albeit one with a "realistic" veneer.

"Queer as Folk" WAS the SATC for male gays.

I have no idea what gay men act like these days.

Oh, well let me catch you up ...

http://jennifermathieu.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/blanche_devereaux.jpg

before turning on his heels and grimacing. Horrors!

I read this entirely differently. I thought, if anything, he was ashamed (annoyed?) of having been caught checking himself out in the window.

There's room for interp, but that the guy looked up, locked eyes and smiled anticipatorily to him was part of the equation for me.

mods to plz redirect current gay thread to autolink here

^^^

nah, it's just a fucking TV show you hafta pay for.

like sex

unsubscribed there as well

First ep is avail for free on YouTube, fwiw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2QnA9bfFLA

ty; maybe as soon as I finish my Last Two Film Reviews Ever.

You can use it to celebrate.

i've already hired the hustlers, marching band and karaoke room for that.

everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at your rear

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Franklin_Pangborn.jpg

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/d1/f0/0a/d1f00ac861efb5b9de00fd6439c94fcb.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2i2a1ip.jpg

So I guess this is the official gay thread 2014?

You've got to back door gays into threads these days.

I CAN'T EVEN WITH YOU *leaves thread*

One thing I do enjoy the show for is how the friends use each other as devices of deflection when out in public. That's very true to life.

you mean intentional cockblockers?

As in they don't even have to be told that's their role because they already all know it intuitively.

I have no intuition. Maybe just a little that comes from being old.

https://twitter.com/tvmojoe/status/426060278036316161

And it's not like numbers go up these days. :(

What was the average number of viewers for Enlightened? Trying to figure out how low HBO would go.

Yeah, lead-in or not, seems like Girls is an entirely different bar to be measuring against.

Also, that's more than Enlightened's best ep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_%28TV_series%29#Season_1_.282011.29

I liked this response to people saying that the show is boring: http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/looking-is-gay-enough

Nice ¶

Erasing of whom? Well, me, for one. You couldn’t pay me a million dollars (well, O.K., you couldn’t pay me a hundred dollars) to go to the Folsom Street Fair. And even if you could, you’d better believe I would titter like an eight-year-old, forget like a teenager, the whole time I was there. Not because there’s anything wicked or dirty about it, but because in addition to being a grand statement of pride, it's also kind of a silly thing, isn’t it? And it’s a milieu in which plenty of gay people, or straight people, or any kind of people, don’t spend much of their lives. So titter on, Patrick and friends. I’m tittering right along with you. That doesn’t make them, or me, somehow less fully realized gay people, it just means we’re different, in all kinds of non-affronting ways—socially, sexually, maybe even politically. What Lowder sees as movement toward a “bland cultural mean,” may actually just be a depiction of people who exist within the community in a different way than he does. To him they have a limited view of themselves, are wrong in not detecting what he sees as a "laughable basicness." But really, who’s doing the limiting here?

loving how this has gotten more and faster responses than a month of the gay thread

I can't be the only gay who wants to talk/gossip about every other gay person/thing/topic/toy more than myself.

I never feel the need to drop in on the gay thread because I have literally no stories to tell.

Too much leering, not enough hearing.

Yeah, do you really want the gay thread to be clogged up with my "oh well, another dude rejected me" posts ad nauseum?

hating how this has gotten more and faster responses than a month of the gay thread

will go to the Folsom Fair soon just to combat Vanity Fair

Just watch the episode and choose your side in this battlefield.

hating how this has gotten more and faster responses than a month of the gay thread

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius),

that's the spirit! You and Eric have merged.

And by "battlefield," I mean deciding whether or not the handjob guy in the first scene is cuet or a troll.

I'd be thrilled to see the gay threads continue healthfully on ILX, even without my participation.

Also, I'm sure posting pictures of George Cukor's inner circle is absolutely the best way to reignite those threads, Morbs.

Less fighting, more threesomes instigated by Dolly Parton tattoos

well, which of us is getting one?

Eric, surely you know by now that my posts aim only to satisfy me.

Not gonna name names.

wd get a D.P. tat if I thought it would make the rest of me look like that assistant.

But I lol'd at how awful the tattoo was in concept and placement.

may actually just be a depiction of people who exist within the community in a different way than he does.

It's weird to see the intergenerational policing of 'gayness'. Being gay in SF isn't much of a thing any more, not as much of a badge of distinction as it was in the 70's and 80's. I simply can't tell if most twenty year olds in SF are gay any more and I'm basicallly fine with that as a straight guy, because straight culture is far less monotonous than it once was and I shouldn't really care if someone's gay unless orientation or relationship comes up specifically.

It just feels like a lot of the boring complaints are coming from gay writers in large metropolitan cities (and that is def more of a media problem than a problem within the LGBTQ community) and well, you can fill in the rest.

and placement.

Yeah. Wtf?

I also lolled at how Agustín reached out to touch it.

the gay community, as vague and amorphous an idea as that is,

Yes, way to bury the lede, Richard Lawson (who i'm p sure i met at an ILX-plus FAP).

All my gays in SF (and I'm 45 so most of them are closer to my age and perhaps more experienced with a more activist and embattled gay identity) are fine with it and lord knows some of them love polemics. I think they're willing to give it a chance since, like I said upthread, it's welcomely realistic, at least inasmuch as it portrays the SF ppl actually live and work in and not the TV/movie version that's so often peddled.

I also lolled at how Agustín reached out to touch it.

Yeah. I was taking "my new tattoo" literally and was all "DON'T TOUCH THAT!"

xp Yeah, if anything, there's even more focus on the pull of vocation in the next three eps.

"ya can't be straight acting with a dick in your mouth"

This reminds me of an advert in the back of straight porn magazines I used to see that said "I'm not gay but the guy sucking my cock might be". I thought it was quite funny.

How different were the UK and US versions of Queer As Folk? I'm pretty sure the UK one had a gay writer.

my little cubano sandwich

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbos-family-tree-hello-ladies-593267

Ugh, both those opened with more viewers than Looking. I think the only reason HBO would keep Looking around for a second season is because of the "thinkpiece buzz" factor

andrew sullivan is hailing this show as some sort of triumph as far as its representation of gay life & that's as good a reason as any for me to avoid watching this show, right

I really like this show so far and I fucking loathe Andrew Sullivan.

Sully likes sipping Jager so he can fuck right off with his representations of gay life.

Can't wait until the ep when the boys sit around the table and have a ~serious discussion~ about The Bell Curve.

xpost ugh he sips jager whyyyyy

bolting it is bad enough

My jag days are long behind me.

his Provincetown jaunts are expressly for Jager bombs iirc

I bet he sips Irish car bombs too.

racist

My colleague is less impressed with the show (as he was less impressed with Weekend), but the takeaway for me is that there's someone out there who apparently thinks there should be even less emphasis on sex itself than I do ... which is disorienting.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2014/23/hbos-looking-its-not-gay-normalcy-its-aspirational-television

I am human and I need to be loved

I am God and I need to be worshiped without question.

Sex onscreen, as a general rule, is and always has been deeply uninteresting.

Life imitates art.

methinks thou dost abstain too much

Not doing something you don't like doing in the first place is not exactly abstaining.

Germane Kant quote posted by FB friend I don't know IRL and who I've studiously avoided when in the same room when he's taken road trips to the cities:

Sexual love makes of the loved person an Object of appetite; as soon as that appetite has been stilled, the person is cast aside as one casts away a lemon which has been sucked dry.

one-and-done huh

I wouldn't meet a guy who treated lemons so contemptuously.

Camus can do, but Kant can't.

I've never had seconds with anyone since college, so Kant's thesis bears out.

Emmanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very seldom able
Heidegger Heidegger was a bloody beggar
Who could fuck you right under the table

Nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach you 'bout the limping of the wrist

http://www.vulture.com/2014/01/looking-recap-season-1-uncut.html

The real establishing texts for this show are the British version of Queer As Folk (not the so-bad-it-hurts soft-core American version) and The Golden Girls. Don’t laugh. No less an artistic authority than master playwright and godhead Edward Albee recently called The Golden Girls “fucking skillful.”

Would you like a blanket, Mr Albee? Or maybe a cherry phosphate?

I think I've reached the conclusion that I have, like, no desire to watch this show (also the best character is the nurse roommate)

Group scenes weirdly have the same rhythm as a late-80s Dockers commercial. Other than that, enjoying the low-key style. Most low-key HBO show since Tell Me You Love Me.

The nurse roommate bugs me in that she keeps steering the show toward Will & Grace territory.

the aesthetic and pace of this are as good as in weekend. agree with stevie about the nurse roommate. i find the moustache character extremely hot. having said that I don't know what any of the characters are called and i'm not sure i ever will.

Yeah, mustache is my favorite of the 3 mains.

I find Russell Tovey kinda annoying. Anyone else?

Never got the appeal, but I don't watch whatever British show he's such a big deal in.

have they all gotten AIDS and died yet?

That's going to be in the movie.

Tovey hasn't been in it yet. I like him a lot (because i lust after him) but he's not a big deal in the uk either, really. He made a bit of an impact briefly because he was in very lad-culture type TV shows and always played that kind of laddish role (not sure what the north american equivalent is) but was gay all along.

Just had flashbacks to the time I dropped an AIDS joke on the Cherelle thread. Happy memories.

NPH?

x-post

Jed, Tovey is in the latest episode that's on HBO Go (and the rest of the internet).

what's NPH?

ah, i see Murgatroid, thanks.

Neil Patrick Harris

The nurse roommate bugs me in that she keeps steering the show toward Will & Grace territory.

At least two gay friends of mine moved to SF w/women before coming out. If they've lived together since coming to the City from Modesto(?), the rent-controlled apartment may be too convenient to leave for either (also the case for many of my friends). As long as they don't play it for laughs too much, it kinda rings true, esp the way they've set-dressed the apt and the way they shoot it.

One of my friends who writes for the show mentioned that "mumblecore" is a word they've used to describe it, which actually makes a lot of sense.

Ugh, no.

I know, I know, and it's not like it's getting tagged as that, but I'm suddenly like...wait, low-low-key, conversational...

I think "conversational" in mumblecore has strong digressive, subtextually loaded dynamics; this isn't that, it's far too direct

next: Macklemmblecore

Tovey is in ep 3 which is available on demand / from your regular torrent haunts.

I adore Russell Tovey. I'm not making any great claims for him as an actor, although he does have charisma, he seemed a little out of his element in this. The black guy is british as well, fwiw.

Enjoyed the scene in the bathhouse which Scott Bakula was excellent in. imdb says Bakula is only in one episode which is disappointing if it's true.

The artist guy moving into being a sex worker seemed a bit of a stretch, for many reasons - someone his age would have to be buff as fk to work in the sex industry, no? he's only okay looking. I mean there are other reasons it's not convincing, of course.

I still can't remember what anyone is called and find the main guy dull although I like his asian co-worker.

Overall i like it but find it a little depressing too.

they were shooting this in my neighborhood last year

I caught the tail end of an episode and it was the one with the Erasure song and I was just... no

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a54c775140/not-looking

wtf was the game jonathan groff's company just finished? why does a sailor arm-wrestling game need a level designer?

xp my favorite part was when one of them lifted a glass of wine and you saw him mouth the word "wine"

yolol @ FoD thing

"we're too young to have these old people problems"

the delivery of "who's 25?" is pretty good.

has there been an episode of this since the first russell tovey one?

does scott bakula have a big role in this

his role is surprisingly big and meaty.

dangit i knew someone would make a homosex thing out of that

lol

xp my favorite part was when one of them lifted a glass of wine and you saw him mouth the word "wine"

Um ... I didn't realize the dialogue was mixed so hard to the earbud I didn't have in my ear here. Oops, et al.

I'm guessing his role will be a 4-5 mini-arc or something. He can't be too big a part of it since he's about to be the next David Caruso or whatever.

Good for him.

Been waiting ages for a new ep, only just realised the last one leaked early.

so nothing since the Tovey episode?

the whole Tovey storyline arc was rubbish - "of course you were going to be on the team". of course because of course you're handsome, of course you're cute, of course you have lots of gay friends, of course people hit on you on buses, of course you're the main character in this show.

of course we'll get it on even though i have a boyfriend.

eyeroll.gif, done w/ this show tbh

watching it fills me w/ a sense of unease

Is that to say, disease?

I'm still very much pro-Looking but LOL anyway: https://twitter.com/BretEastonEllis/status/430864888265592832

I haven't heard that accusation levelled at it. Anyway, It's too short to be boring.

Boring = not enough hot sex, I'm assuming

It's not boring because there's not enough sex, it's boring because the show has no engaging content.

I don't find it boring I find it depressing.

No engaging content and depressing. Which ILX thread series does that remind me of?

The best time I've had with gay people in the last week was spitballing ideas for how to brand an as-yet unnamed holiday fragrance a friend of ours brought to smell. I believe we settled on "Hot Batter."

It seems to rely so heavily on the "novelty" of being gay that the characters are totally underdeveloped and uninteresting, and so are their lives and the things that they do and the people they talk to and the situations that they're in.

Admittedly, the show does lean too much on the "naturalism" that probably was a better fit with Weekend than a scripted TV series (where, at some point, story's gonna *have to* kick in).

I'm just not getting the appeal apart from "Hey look, they're GAY!! Also: attractive! Look how gay and attractive these men are! Also it looks Instagram, isn't that nice?"

I mean Weekend kinda had the same framework but then it added on this really complex relationship thing.

I was really hoping the characters would be like actually flawed in real ways and not just these super basic "wah I'm a waiter/wah I'm attractive but single" ways or there would be like oh idk some sort of critique of attitudes of gay men w/r/t the importance of bodies, of hotness, of loneliness; something as complex and profound as Weekend, but instead 3 episodes in the show has offered very little in this regard.

And I'm kind of losing hope that it will go in that sort of direction.

Weekend didn't depict a relationship, tho.

It depicted what happens before a relationship i.e. the good stuff.

can I pitch a series called Company or Travel? about poor gays living on the Lower East Side in the early '90s, when there were backroom bars, phone-line hookups, strip-club theme parties and lots of crack-related muggings?

Only if someone dies at the beginning of every episode.

too much like that Alan Ball funeral show

That was on purpose.

/Weekend/ didn't depict a relationship, tho.

But it did! It wasn't relationship in the committed, nearly-defined "We are boyfriends" sense but more in the sense of a dynamic between two people except one that had a lot of elements of the first one but was still ambiguous

neatly not nearly

figgered xxp

was thinking more like oldskool Gregg Araki w/ better acting

I may have to revisit Weekend, but as I'm remembering it, they weren't really invested much in the situation until the one revealed that he was moving to the States. And then it got sort of real and fun simultaneously.

Because they both knew it had no future.

would gladly watch Stranger by the Lake turned into weekly HBO show.

In my interpretation of the ending, the one who stays behind knows he'll never open up like that again and throws himself from the balcony.

or into the lake

Everybody into the pool!

summer gay thread title.

Eh -- might as well make this the gay thread. Fuck it.

NO

In my interpretation of the ending, the one who stays behind knows he'll never open up like that again and heaves a sigh of relief.

(j/k, I don't remember the ending of Weekend)

It ended with a big SPLAT!

xps well whatever it was, it deviated sharply from the types of relationships/dynamics/interactions that are typically (i.e. virtually always) presented in film/tv

Agreed, but I imagine some of its freshness came in part from how it sidestepped any engagement with the mythology of building a relationship. This wasn't exactly Brief Encounter here.

Briefs Encounters more like

so no one cared about last week's episode? no wonder. i'm more interested in the moustache/scott bakula sideline than anything in the foreground. moustache telling bakula his food project had some urgency because he was about to turn (omg) 40 was a potentially interesting thing to investigate.

anyone know yet what these, or any characters are actually called? without looking it up on imdb. i know that the main guy is called Patrick (maybe) and he's a banal gay tv type we're supposed to identify with. yawn.

the artist guy - well he completely changed character in this (folsom street) episode. bad writing and bad direction ...and maybe bad acting but who can tell at this point?

the cinematographer deserves mad props though.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only poster in this thread who's still fully into this show. And as for naming the characters without looking them up - Patrick's the main guy, Agustin's the beardo who wants to become an escort or whatever, and Dom's the older one who wants Scott Bakula to invest in his restaurant or whatever.

"or whatever"

well done! you deserve props along with the cinematographer. the thing looks gorgeous but maybe that's easy in itself these days, i dunno.

Yesterday's ep as easily the best yet, so satsfyingly low-key. This thing is fucking doomed, huh?

This week's episode was so good that I know its inevitable cancellation has to be coming in the next couple days.

Ugh, don't say that.

Not that the ep is going to silence any detractors that think Andrew H only has one trick up his sleeve.

I really like that one trick, though I totally understand if others don't.

I think it's at least a notable variation in that this time around, the naturalism has to navigate around someone who is high strung, and crushingly image conscious.

damn i was down on this but i'd like it to continue to exist with the possibility that it may become more interesting.

https://twitter.com/Slant_Magazine/status/434368097038786560

Can't tell if backhanded praise or one-handed hype.

Aren't those one and the same?

Yeah, and on a related note ...

http://blogs.indiewire.com/bent/looking-at-looking-things-we-learned-about-patrick-in-the-series-best-episode-yet-20140216

Can't tell if this episode really did reveal as much with so little or if I am (we are) trained to read into things we find attractive. But maybe not. That the article isn't "10 things we learned about Richie in the series' best episode yet" sort of explains one of my relative disappointments with the ep. Richie's gay zen thing isn't as well shaded as Chris New's was in Weekend. He's still sort of stuck in perfect-object-of-desire territory as of yet, other than the few hints of exasperation that portend another three-month relationship for Patrick.

this episode taking the same approach as weekend def made it a lot better than every episode up until now. i'd been thinking for the past few weeks that the main thing keeping me uninterested is that none of the characters actually seemed to talk to each other that much—like, not even the level of meaningful conversation you might expect from a sitcom

also rachel/ross as euphemism for top/bottom is kind of amazing

I kept getting it backwards myself.

Haven't watched this week's episode, but by all accounts it continues the show's apparent upswing.

oh for god's sake

If this show gets cancelled, I lose my only gay thread!

If this show gets cancelled, I lose my only gay thread!

― Eric H.,

I got yer upswing right *here*

wait so should I start watching this again? I think I stopped after ep 3

I stopped when HBO stopped uploading free episodes.

I've got a gay.

(What's your gay got to do with me?)

Stevie, I don't think the DNA of the show changed in ep 5, but it certainly got down to business in a way that wasn't really evident in the first four eps.

my favorite part of this show so far is anticipating which gay artist will get played over the closing credits of each episode

how often has Rufus Wainwright been used?

zero so far iirc

didnt see last nights yet but, from memory:

the 2 bears
erasure
john grant
morrissey
patrick crowley

patrick crowley

according to the Grantland article, "Every Day is Like Sunday" used well.

as performed by morrissey

oh sorry i misread your post

http://grantland.com/features/after-normal/

Sylvester played at the end of one.

Friend of mine co-wrote last night's episode--hoping it was a good one.

oh yeah sylvester too

thats my favorite sylvester song too!

please say it was "Do You Wanna Funk"

It was "I Need Somebody To Love Tonight," tied with "I Need You" as my second favorite Sylvester track.

Last night's ep was the worst so far, and I say that as apparently the biggest fan of the show on here.

Oy, if it's worse than the Folsom episode, I don't know if I'll be able to recover. Especially coming off an ep that elevated the entire enterprise as E5 did.

It depends on what you didn't like about the Folsom episode.

The one-sitcom-moment-after-another thing (meat-induced diarrhea attack, boss unexpectedly walks in to see Patrick's leather daddy vest, mistaken Bakula date-not-date). It was a cliche parade totally beneath these guys.

The Cliche Parade is usually in June, I'm glad they moved it to Folsom.

I guess there was a bit less of that (though it was still kinda there, though I could be confusing your complaint with "stuff happening"), but I didn't like last night's episode for different reasons.

not your favorite Morrissey song?

ilu Alfred

"stuff happening" =/= "stupid stuff happening"

Well, yeah. I just don't know where your bottom line is for "stupid". Some of what happened last night could be construed as stupid, though I would disagree.

And other things were stupid, since I really hated some moments in last night's episode.

We'll see. I'm not watching it until this afternoon.

i dont think i have these in the right order but

http://open.spotify.com/user/thuggishruggish/playlist/4Q9LWq61RFzspgQClngfJ3

Not a mini masterpiece like last week's ep, but as satisfying as it could've been given it had to return to a whole bunch of set-up plot points.

Still, I can no longer see what Richie sees in Patrick. Or what anyone does, for that matter.

Would it be unbecoming of me to suggest that I wanted more of a fight between Agustin and Richie? Or would that be too sitcom/soap opera territory?

I would've been fine with that, except that I don't think Patrick/Richie have arrived at the place where fisticuffs would've been even remotely appropriate.

Also, the episode did a economical number on the show's characters' inability to land in middle ground. Patrick's "I was slow, now I'm fast," Dom's inability to notice anyone within 18 years of his own age, etc.

is Dom moustache?

Mainly.

i like him.

I like the way the show depicts him only knowing how to relate to other gay men sexually. (Token women friends too, given Doris and he hooked up.)

I just feel sorry for Patrick. Poor guy, either goes too slow or too fast.

Fast or slow, he's really going nowhere.

A classic "Before the Parade Passes By" queer.

Albeit one who does have sex every now and again.

lmk when Carol Channing, the obv bookend to Morrissey, is on the end credits

Don't worry. I'm gonna raise the roof.

fingers crossed for tonetta

Renewed for a second season, along with three new regulars (Richie, Doris, Patrick's boss): http://tvline.com/2014/02/26/looking-season-2-renewed-hbo-renews/

I'm really happy to see this, but it would be better for them to admit that this show really needs the hour-long format to flourish.

If it was an hour long, I could see the writing drag out even more and the complaints that nothing happens on the show escalate.

Five hours of TV being "a season" is some crazy deflation

that episode was good. Richie is a great character played by an excellent actor. The acting is of a fairly high standard actually but that guys is fantastic.

I saw that actor in the mumblecorish movie Cold Weather.

Has the Joe Swanberg-directed ep aired yet?

Yep, that was the most recent one.

apparently the show is unintentionally capturing Vanishing SF

http://sfist.com/2014/02/26/esta_noche_closing_straight_bar_mov.php

isn't it closer to the truth to say this show is unintentionally causing SF to vanish

anyone ID the track that played over the ep7 credits?

The answer is probably somewhere on this page: http://www.hbo.com/#/looking/episodes/01/07-looking-for-a-plus-one/music.html

thanks! i'd seen a page like that for an earlier episode but couldn't find it for ep7

Andrew Haigh directed this himself with some skill. Quite a lot of good moments and details.

I've said it before but Raúl Castillo is a damn good actor and blows all of the others (most of whom are, themselves, pretty good) off the screen. Dom is v. good, Dom's female house mate is good. The guys who play Augustin and his bf are less good but still decent. Russell Tovey is not very good but I have the hots for him so, whatever.

I suppose the big stumbling block is Patrick (I'm learning the names!) who I can't see how anyone could be obsessed by. I think Russell Tovey's extreme interest in him is a false-note but I don't know if it's the blandly handsome actor who is at fault or the writing/direction.

This was good though! I'm getting to the point where i actually anticipate it.

I can't be objective at all about Patrick, and I too can't see how anyone could be obsessed by him. It's not his bland blondness that's the sticking point, but his incredibly neurotic relentlessness.

Anyway, I finally joined the rest of society in viewing Doris as the show's secret MVP. She killed me with that "Dom's worth it" but, no matter how convenient and cliched it probably was.

Ending the season with an extended Golden Girls vamp was the definition of playing it safe, but I loved that it also spoke on behalf of at least two characters' total regression. I myself keep track of my own return-to-the-womb mental state by how often I'm indulging in the Girls on YouTube. It's been a pretty rough 18 months, truth.

oh, was that the end of the season? I guess my anticipation is a bit worthless at this point then.

It was over as soon as it started.

I do sort of get a kick at the thought that they shot that final scene knowing full well that could also be the end of the series. At the end of the day, all (American) gay men eventually circle back to the Golden Girls until the end of time.

yes that was really good.

Someone told me they talk about it on the show and I must've missed it but I noticed during the finale how far out Russell Tovey's ears stick and that's all I can see now when I close my eyes.

I don't like this enthusiastic Eric.

Wind me up, Sotzylla.

You don't like enthusiasm period.

How did everyone interpret Patrick bottoming for Dumbo when he said he wasn't ready to with Richie? Was it a total betrayal or just an indication he didn't take the tryst seriously?

I'm guessing he was just ready to bottom regardless of who he was with and Dumbo just happened to be at the right place/time.

At the end of the day, all (American) gay men eventually circle back to the Golden Girls until the end of time.

Except one.

Thank you for being a team player.

You don't like enthusiasm period.

― Eric H.,

You shoulda seen me with the Raul Castillo manqué I picked up three weeks ago.

sorry, I was listening to the Smiths.

my Blank Generation finds the millennial gays are oppressing us with the GGs the way the Stonewall gays tried to penetrate us with Bette fucking Midler.

the GGs

the Glenn Greenwalds?

The Blank Generation at least gave us disco, so I've no qualm if they can't get aboard with the Glenn Greenwalds (and they can, btw; it's just you Morbs).

Also, Alfred, speaking as your gay husband, I find your extramarital sex life problematic.

The Blank Generation at least gave us disco

fall into the voidoid

http://open.spotify.com/album/4Gac3YzzbXvSxC8H8vpf97

How did everyone interpret Patrick bottoming for Dumbo when he said he wasn't ready to with Richie? Was it a total betrayal or just an indication he didn't take the tryst seriously?

this scene was devastating in how unromantic and uneasy it played out. patrick grew a lot emotionally with richie but just enough for kevin to benefit from it, for (mostly) the wrong reasons. i wonder if there are any parts of the audience who are rooting for patrick and kevin?

i'm straight btw so i will admit to a learning curve but the way this season dealt with the top/bottom dynamic both on its own terms and as a metaphor was really well done imo. does weekend get in to this at all?

not that I recall. It's not often discussed.

Weekend is more discussion about disappointment over dick size iirc.

Some of us answer the top or bottom question with "yes," or a yawn.

Some of us never shut up.

I know, were you vaccinated with a phonograph needle?

(there's a more famous record that utilizes that phrase, tootsie) xxxxxp

the syringe filled with a powerful dose of antirock bacillum.

I know, I hate you, too! That's the way girls are! We're catty! We back stab and talk about each other behind our backs and stalk.

Timeliness from BF: http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/are-you-a-top-or-a-bottom

finished the season, kind of love this show tbqh

there's at least one scene an episode that makes me cringe but otherwise it feels pretty real to me

It's the scenes that feel real that make me cringe, actually.

And everything Patrick says or does.

he really makes the wrong move in every situation but otherwise that character would be way too ideal

just realized this reminds me a lot of adventureland, esp the way it's shot. i think this explains why i like it so much.

the movie?

yes

like the colors of "looking"... a lot of dusk, the light is almost always soft.

also tonally.

Cinematographer did Frozen River and the Harry Potter-as-Ginsberg film.

Ann Magnuson was in 2 episodes -- good role?

Nope. Only one significant scene and it's one of those "You know what? You're fired!" moments.

is that what she said

yes, TWSS

I'm not sure how happy Patrick is about being gay. Just saw the wedding episode (lots of shots in my neighborhood!) and he comes across as someone who hasn't entirely embraced who he is.

well, being happy about it is going too far

men are pigs etc

Being a lesbian. That's the way to go. All the straight guys tell me.

God they just keep adding more and more cast members to S2.

still await DVD

on DVD.

waiting for the library to get it

a good time to watch Season One on this night of the marrieds.

god fuck this show and its stupid characters so much

"I'm gonna get myself a Mexican fuck buddy whether you like it or not!"

I've seen the first ep of the new season. It's good! (But then I thought last season found itself quite nicely in its final few eps, so.)

god fuck this show and its stupid characters so much

I came around on the show hardcore in the tail end of the first season (i.e. I thought it became a legitimately good show) but suddenly I find I'm not in my right mind to continue watching these three glamorously fuck up their lives and get fucked a whole lot in a beautiful city.

But since I agreed to review it again, wheeeee.

don't understand the hate for this show, i personally love it, and while can see that it is not for everyone really dont get what in it warrants some of the vitriol it seems to attract. i'm psyched for next week, been waiting for the return for what feels like yonks

Gay people should be well beyond hoping for *one* *definitive* representation on TV by now, I'd have to think.

So you guys who said this show improved?

You're right.

Scott Bakula gets the acting bouquets -- he nails this smart, reticent, insecure type. Raul Castillo almost as good.

I wish these shows didn't present such binaries. Patrick the boring white guy can't fuck the Mexican and the Brit without worrying about choosing. The New Freedom is the Old Constraint. It's the American "Six Feet Under" again, with "Golden Girls" episode as a panacea.

this scene was devastating in how unromantic and uneasy it played out. patrick grew a lot emotionally with richie but just enough for kevin to benefit from it, for (mostly) the wrong reasons.

gr8080, honorary gay man.

i wonder if there are any parts of the audience who are rooting for patrick and kevin?

Hi!

really hoping season 2 is heavy on the Bakula and Castillo

together, preferably

You all gonna fall in love with Daniel Franzese's Eddie.

There is no Eddie.

the party scene set to 'lost in music' was wonderful

First ep had a little bit much "You want sex? Here's the sex you want to see! Lots of sex to show you!"

Awesome conematography from Xavier Grobet. Andrew Haigh certainly has a knack for finding talented people to work with and that's not meant to be an insult, not completely anyway. He's very talented too but his view of what makes people interesting is pretty far from mine. I thought that about weekend too. That was beautifully photographed as well, actually. The Dom actor in this s fantastic (as are his thighs and ass) and so is his female buddy. The acting is all of a pretty high standard overall although Patrick is p standard tv acting - does the job, I guess.

Maybe the Patrick actor is good though what can you do with that boring character and who could give a damn about him and his boss fucking why is he the central character.

Conematography lol

actually I do give a damn about Kevin's liking this twerp.

Kevin's a boring twerp as well you just fancy Russell Tovey. So do I. Like crazy.

I am both totally repulsed by and highly protective of Patrick. He's my spirit animal I wish I didn't have.

if Patrick were a spirit animal he'd be:

http://www.eveandersson.com/photos/usa/ca/napa-county/old-faithful-llama-4-large.jpg

It's like looking in a mirror.

srsly tho my life needs more slow-mo tracking shots set to nile rodgers remixes

JOIN US

Caught in a trap!

oh did gay TV wear out Sylvester or sumthin?

tbh I'd rather never hear Chic ever again at this point.

I hate to break it to you, but ...

I'm a cunt?

No, Chic's here to stay. But since you brought it up ...

it's a sister sledge track ftr

Manuel of The Film Experience:

Looking brings up these questions in ways shows that aren't about minority subjects never do (or never to the extent that they become the sole conversation around them). It's always so much easier for gay men to identify with brassy, sassy, powerful, complicated women (fun house mirrors that help us imagine ourselves anew, helping us see the distortions we enjoy and hope to emulate) than with run-of-the-mill gay characters who hit either much too close to home or necessarily exist in a world too far removed.

onathan Groff Doesn't Feel Brave For Getting Pounded Against A Tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTLzOp3uTYw

^to be featured in my forthcoming series about East Village backroom bars in the early '90s

Raúl Castillo Is magnificent.

Patrick is much easier for me to take now than he was at the beginning of the series, I appreciate how believable his constant anxiety about everything is

I wanna hug this show's music supervisor, whoever it is has been doing a superb job for the show's entire run thus far

if u like

http://www.squarehippies.com/2015/01/murray-bartletts-chest-is-what-you-need-right-now/#more-11624

Debate!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/02/02/is_hbo_s_looking_still_boring_season_2_reviewed.html

I've watched a couple episodes of this now, mostly playing "spot the location". it seems kinda dopey - like Girls, I would be into it if it were funnier but being funny isn't the overall goal of the show.

was this on last night? i can't find a torrent.

don't think so (super bowl)

Ah ok, cheers

i mean c'mon is the Super Bowl really going to cut into the audience of Looking

"the audience of Looking"

No. in
series	No. in
season	Title	Directed by	Written by	Original air date	U.S. viewers
(million)
9	1	"Looking for the Promised Land"	Andrew Haigh	Andrew Haigh	January 11, 2015	0.183[6]
10	2	"Looking for Results"	Andrew Haigh	Michael Lannan	January 18, 2015	0.195[7]
11	3	"Looking Top to Bottom"[8]	Ryan Fleck	John Hoffman	January 25, 2015	0.324[9]

Sad to see the numbers have gone back down to the nadir of the first season.

ppl semi-watch the Super Bowl for 'social' reasons

Oddly enough, my all-gay viewing party watched the game more intently than the commercials (... but not Katy).

the one-two laxative of the SB and Grammys are like a purge before baseball season.

I see on FB that stevie d got through all of S1.

Anyone caught up on S2? The Halloween episode pushed my levels of hatred/identification with Patrick up to critical mass.

But, yeah, this season's ratings make the prospect of a S3 a lost cause.

patrick's rant seemed somewhat implausible, imo.

the funeral episode pushed this into top 5 television for me. i hope HBO is willing to give it another season to ferment.

I'm really having a hard time genuinely liking any of these characters apart from Doris and Eddie. I mean Girls is about a bunch of really awful people that make for really great, entertaining characters; Looking has a bunch of more subtly awful people (in a way that the shoe seems to be unaware of and even glorify) who make for characters that I really don't sympathize with or care about at all, and the ones I DO like I feel myself kinda frowning at for wanting to hang out with these kinds of people

That being said bough I'm enjoying the show more and more, the funeral episode was great, and the Halloween speech was SO PAINFUL TO WATCH

the funeral episode was great

i loved the funeral ep, doris should get more and more screen time

would watch a spinoff show tbh

From watching the first season I don't know what Doris is supposed to be playing.

the promos are saying "only three episodes left" which kinda sounds like no season three

Augustin being like weirdly contemptful and subtly transphobic to a group of homeless queer youth was not a very good look imo

http://www.avclub.com/article/hbo-should-renew-looking-even-though-nobody-watche-216064

A 0.4 rating?!

Haha, oh wait, my mistake ... it was a 0.04 rating. In other words, a zero.

Think Mitchell Leisen’s Midnight, Leo McCarey’s Love Affair, or Josef Von Sternberg without the exoticism. Looking conjures an atmosphere.

but Eric likes it anyway.

tbqh I am vehemently in support of this show getting renewed so that it at least has an opportunity to develop into something more complex and challenging

lololol You could almost call Looking homonormative DING DING DING

xp b-b-b-but JVS is one of my favorite directors!

Stevie otm

If this is the final season, at least we got a look at Daniel Franzese's cock

lol, my gf on the couch said in awed tones "Wow, he is... a large... guy..."

had a little lol when Agustin got called out for HIV paranoia. i was like, is Stevie D a consultant on this show now?

sure did feel like they were checking off another gay issue tho, felt kind of perfunctory as with some other topical issues they raise, don't see why they think they have to cover off all of these things about the gay community, like maybe u should focus on some character development instead, make these people a bit more engaging and interesting

i sort of dug the funeral episode but it was v Six Feet Under pastiche-y imo, also thought it didn't quite reach the gravitas it was aiming for, felt slightly more genuine than usual but also didn't quite justify the catharsis intended for the main characters, writing just felt stock at times when it was trying to be quietly profound or epiphanic for characters, giving a bit of context to their characters ok gr8 but maybe don't make it about another gay cliche

i know I'm about the 1000th person to say this but Patrick is extremely annoying and his relationship to Richie hasn't really been developed v well, like the lingering looks and class/race guilt, uhh whatever i wish Richie would just burn him hard, they're trying to force this more subversive relationship that just doesn't feel right and it's painful to watch. Everyone should just shun Patrick tbh. also Kevin sux as a character and their love story sux too, i don't think they write v good lines for Russell Tovey and he just feels so awkward here

also idgaf about Dom really anymore, o ur opening a trendy authentic downhome hole in the wall chicken joint HU CAIRZ this is like that horrible storyline in Treme where Janette takes over the restaurant and it's sooooo boring but they persist with it as this triumph over adversity or w/e

tbh this show wld probably be way better if u were a consultant, Stevie

btw i don't mean that they shouldn't be covering HIV paranoia and ostracism, it's highly prevalent and important to draw attention to that, just that it feels as though they're paying lip service sometimes to issues they almost feel duty bound to cover

Dom is the person I would loathe the most; he is everything I hate about gay men (seemingly nice but actually really smug and arrogant and will be a dick to you if they see nothing to gain from interacting with you)

Yeah the development on this show just isn't great, is it. I never thought about just like a checklist of issues and while I do sincerely appreciate them trying to cover real things, and while it would be way worse if they ignored all of that stuff and just lived in their dumb priv bubble, that observation is pretty otm in regard to the manner in which they actually present/address these things in the shoe

thought latest ep was an improvement overall, even Patrick was tolerable tho his scenes were a bit predictable. shit got a bit more real for some of the characters and i enjoyed Dom getting called out by Doris. the writers are running w the redemption, acceptance and fulfilment of potential arcs and it works ok i think, better for some characters than others, but it's still hard to care much about what happens to them. sometimes i think they just need to be in a more interesting place that isn't so hipstery, also hour long episodes would help character/storyline development etc. felt as if i'd seen that newly liberated mum storyline for abt the 10th time, actress pulled it off well and it had a poignant sting in its tail but even that i saw coming. sister was also predictably waspy and the showdown with Patrick felt forced because they wanted to add some dramatic tension to Patrick's relaysh w Kevin, wanting it to appear hard fought when it hasn't really played out that way at all apart from the characters' neurotic rhetoric. all the same it's nice to watch and seems promising that they're looking to add more grit or w/e to the characters' lives.

enjoyed the mum being told off for feeding quinoa chips to the animals, show could do w more self-parody

they're on a strict savannah diet

there's a New Gay Sadness? what do i have to do to catch up with it?

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/looking-marriage-and-the-new-gay-sadness

is it a Perfume Genius album?

I still haven't gotten over the Old Gay Sadness.

(Also, S2 moved this one into the upper reaches of what I'm watching on TV these days.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/23/arts/review-hbos-looking-has-season-finale-but-no-word-on-its-future.html
http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/03/20/open-letter-hbo-save-looking
http://tvline.com/2015/03/22/looking-season-3-renewal-hbo/

300k viewers for the last episode! I guess most straight men and couples really have a hard time watching gay men make out?

as do I

it toally ended in a way that would be ok as a series finale while also leaving lots to work with if a S3 ever happens

a lot of it was a little on-the-nose but overall it was a great episode-- the excruciatingly long takes through those gross claustrophobic hallways in that terrible condo building-- fuck man i started getting so anxious for paddy

i def loled at his last scene ending with "i dont want to talk" after so many ilx people complained about what an obnoxious character he is

the “new gay”: “hardworking, wholesome, and unambiguously gendered; adorably installed in a long-term relationship; too busy volunteering at church and attending children’s soccer games to have time for deviant behavior.”

EVERYTHING I EVER WORKED AGAINST WHEN I "WORKED IT"

No wonder they're sad.

That being said, every generation does work to correct the errors of the previous generation.

no runways, no meth hits, no errors

the excruciatingly long takes through those gross claustrophobic hallways in that terrible condo building-- fuck man i started getting so anxious for paddy

Fuuuuck I'm glad I'm not the only person that noticed this. And yeah otm I thought the same thing abt it being a decent finale if need be. Man, this sudden massive instability w P & K's relationship was strangely sudden, though.

:-/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/03/25/hbo-looking-canceled/70427986/

:-(

wrong vibe for the Neil Patrick Harris Nation, mebbe

I'll be pretty surprised if that "special" actually gets made.

still waiting on the Deadwood feature length

nah, i'd expect to see it, lower budget than Deadwood.

Put the two shows together, something involving time travel.

Would actually rather not see a special/movie. The point of Looking is in the not finding.

i think the season finale works really well as a series finale

also since we're on the subject of twice as bright/half as long, can they please put john from cincinnati up on hbo go already

that sucks
RIP Looking: you were only rarely great but you were headed the right direction and i was interested to see what was next

cosign

feel bad abt my qualms now but also not rly just luv2h8 the characters and middling writing

was v much luv2h8 at times but i could see its potential and i never had any expectations of it fulfilling some sort of representation

one of the main problems was i didn't care abt p&k relaysh much at all. also grindr profile felt too topical and clumsy and convenient, like again ok this is def a thing w gay couples having to negotiate open relationships and imbalance of desires but maybe it could have been teased out and explored ambiguity and contradictions instead of being normy abt it and using it as a hasty death knell plot device. thought actor who plays patrick was much more believable as a character and helped give a real sense of unease and disappointment. developed strong feelings of resentment towards russell tovey's presence even tho he has a nice butt. i haven't seen him in many other things but he seems limited in his range and really miscast here

The point of Looking is in the not finding

not sure i agree w this, i mean sure for patrick he didn't find this str8 ideal and there was an underlying sense of low key melancholia to the show but i think there were a few life lessons or w/e that the characters found out along the way eg ppl are often selfish and flaky and contradictory and into opening trendy restaurants that will probably leave them bankrupt and if u love them u will let them fail horribly at that

just read a bit of interview w occasional writer/director, apologies if already posted

he addresses hate watching here but i think it's more complicated than he makes it out to be, it's projection and self-hatred in recognition of characters and their foibles and sometimes their normality that is uncomfortably closer to rl than the aspirations of queer men, but part of it is they keep watching because they want to see how they interact with other characters who are perhaps outside their sheltered lives or yearning for assimilation. I think Looking could have played more w identity and class politics than it did and should have been given more of a chance to do that, esp outside of a more traditionally accepted hip to be square yet accepting of acceptable diversity setting such as modern san francisco (idk what i'm talking abt tbh). then again maybe that's the perfect place to explore that kind of soured wish fulfilment/poisoned chalice scenario

i think what i'm trying to say is show is ok but had potench to be more than ok

meant to paste this quote

I understand it, there's so little gay representation on screen so there's a lot of pressure on it. But it's a pressure that we can't possibly live up to. They want it to be something that it's not going to be. And I read things sometimes by some people and I'm like, "You are insane. We've never said that's what this show is. Why do you think it's that show?" Some people love it and some people hate-watch it and tweet about how much they hate it while watching the episodes, which to me is the act of a crazy person. Why would you do that? Just turn it off. So I find it a very strange concept and it's very hard for us who work on "Looking" because we're all from like a low-key background. We're not TV execs.

that sucks
RIP Looking: you were only rarely great but you were headed the right direction and i was interested to see what was next

― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, March 25, 2015 8:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This.

Also watching it was basically the only time I ever used shazam so I may as well delete that app now.

They played "Jump Bugs" by Syclops in one of the dancing scenes and I was EXTREMELY impressed tbh

http://www.boyculture.com/boy_culture/2015/03/why-are-so-many-gay-people-happy-that-looking-is-canceled.html

And so when Looking was cancelled today, and I started seeing reactions on my feed like, "Good!" "At last" I felt sick, and I felt like I finally understood what my subtly homophobic screenwriting teacher at NYU meant when she told me that if I wrote about gay people it would be "limiting" - a note I have spent years proudly ignoring. It's not that I didn't have my own feelings about Looking's strengths and weaknesses. I would have loved to have written for it, but I wasn't hired. Still, I watched. And I think it really is the ghost of the generations of homophobia that forced our own stories to be squashed, hidden, and coded or put unwholesome characters in our films that caused us to react the way we reacted to Looking. Better no representation than imperfect representation!

Instead of protesting a blatantly homophobic film like GET HARD, we are cheering the demise of a piece of film by a great gay filmmaker which starred all openly gay actors giving moving and powerful performances. Nowadays we criticize every single bit of representation or lack thereof and shun the films and media by not watching. I'm not saying those conversations were wrong, and shouldn't have happened, but the failure of Looking to make it past two seasons is a bad thing for gay filmmakers, and a bad thing for people trying to put gay characters on the small screen.

They don't want reality, they want magic.

"Great gay filmmaker" may be overselling a little bit, though.

For years I told myself that seeing one of my books in the gay latino fiction section of Borders would kill me.

Borders died first.

Bezos killed it with his big fucking dick.

I wonder if i'll EVER see this show if the Last Bricks & Mortar Video Store in Brooklyn doesn't have it.

just get one of your millenial friends to download it for you and watch it on your computer!

*waves politely*

i love that you were so thoroughly converted that you're willing to act as a shabbas gay for morbs, it is hella cute

can you convert that paragraph of text into readable content?

lolol I wouldn't call my self thoroughly converted, I mean I still think the show is (was :-/) total bullshit in a lot of ways but I guess I was less hostile towards it after you helped to sell me on it

it is total bullshit in lots of ways! but it's also occasionally excellent and the acting is pretty consistently great

yeah I definitely want Morbs to see it and hear what he has to say.

Morbs, let me make this happen for you!

I am already drowning in overdue films and Classic TV of the 21st century, however

yeah but these are only half an hour! and this is the ZEITGEIST dude you gotta get on it while it's hot

^I don't pay heed to the zeitgeist.

Acc to this story on Haigh's next film project, he is also preparing to direct the Looking finale.

btw the Last Bricks & Mortar Video Store in Brooklyn AND the BPL have season 1.

I learned over dinner on Sunday night that the beautiful-boring guy whom my friend had briefly dated in 2002 was indeed Looking's creator.

Haigh?

Lannan.

he was decidedly more beautiful without the beard

duh this was the link i neglected to add

http://www.screendaily.com/news/andrew-haighs-next-film-to-be-lean-on-pete/5088531.article

watched the first 4 episodes!

so far Groff's Patrick is not so much "awkward" as an idiot.

Raul Castillo, ay caramba.

He's gorgeous. He's also an extremely good actor.

this just reminded me i never got around to watching the first season. seems like a good way to celebrate independence day.

S1 is good but S2 is a marked improvement.

Castillo's character was the highlight of the series--or at least the first season, which is all I've seen thus far--for me. I'm honestly kinda "eh" on the show as a whole, but it is at its best whenever he is on screen, or at least a focus of Groff's actions in some way. The wedding (not a gay one, so no spoiler here) episode is particularly strong thanks to the (all too rare, I think) tension that his character brings to it.

Is Agustin meant to be such an unbearable little cunt?

Well, he's Cuban.

and an "artist"

Is Agustin meant to be such an unbearable little cunt?

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Sunday, July 5, 2015 9:07 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

imo, yes. tbh I found all of the main characters to be despicable in different ways: Patrick is an uptight idiot, Dom is narcissistic, extremely superficial, and opportunistic, and Augustin is a smug, self-absorbed twat.

Well it is intentional - we're not supposed to like everyone in a TV show, after alll. And Augustin becomes more likeable as the show progresses. Patrick is a bore throughout though.

A pretty bore.

Thought the series improved noticeably halfway through season 1, with the holiday/sightseeing episode that ends with "Everyday is Like Sunday." The success of each episode seems to correlate to how well they earn their end credits song. That one was apt (San Fran, silent and grey as depicted!), whereas the acid wit of John Grant's "Blackbelt" is something the show can only aspire to. I know the director loves JG but that was a big reach, esp. after only two uneventful episodes.

the holiday/sightseeing episode that ends with "Everyday is Like Sunday."

I just saw this one, and since Haigh wrote and directed it (he doesn't do em all) it was kind of like Weekend but shorter.

The one that ended w/ the Golden Girls theme made me verklempt

(no comment)

Only one of the two last posters are someone I'd like to hang out with.

when does therapy start?

Dom is narcissistic, extremely superficial, and opportunistic

Well he's a waiter, all those people are fucked up.

like bitches whose soft spot is any implied or actual criticism of their fave childhood sitcom. or Brian dePalma.

anyway, Scott Bakula as the Voice of Reason: "Some of us aren't on our phones 24 hours a day."

the holiday/sightseeing episode that ends with "Everyday is Like Sunday."

I just saw this one, and since Haigh wrote and directed it (he doesn't do em all) it was kind of like Weekend but shorter.

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Monday, July 6, 2015 12:53 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

really great essay on that episode that eric posted upthread:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/bent/looking-at-looking-things-we-learned-about-patrick-in-the-series-best-episode-yet-20140216

yeah, that's good.

The thing about complaining that Patrick is self-absorbed -- well that's how the show presents him.

The last 2 episodes of s1 were fairly strong. Never recognized Julia Duffy as his mom, excellent performance.

EXCEPT FOR THE GOLDEN GIRLS SHIT, STOP WITH THE FUCKING GOLDEN GIRLS SHIT.

(seriously the jokes in every clip i hear from that show are goddamn awful)

There are signs all over lower Haight neighborhood saying that the special is being filmed on Nov 3.

Did 45 years get a U.S. Release? I missed it in the theatres.

Damn I loved this show. Watched it on demand over a few days with my wife.

One thing that I didn't like about it, and this may just be my chip on the shoulder anglophobia : I mistrusted and disliked Kevin the whole time and felt like Patrick was an idiot for not just choosing Ritchie.

I felt like Richie had a narrow escape from a pretty dull guy.

still not out on Netflix -- grr

again, i think Patrick's idiocy was sort of presented as a given.

Movie in july

looking fwd

(no terrible pun intended)

i don't get the pun. but yes i'm happy this is going to be tied up. it was frustrating at times but i liked it a lot for the most part and it was a beautiful looking show, always amazingly well photographed. and i have a huge crush on raoul castillo, which i'm sure i've mentioned multiple times on this thread.

I don't have my Sky subscription anymore, so I thought I'd buy the DVDs of this in advance of the film, and then buy that when it comes out. But the DVD of the second season isn't coming out till July 2017. WTF? That can't be right, surely.

hope they mean '16... it makes sense to promote the wrapup

I'm rewatching this w/ my boyf so we can discuss it (he never watched it). We just finished S1 and I still think all of the main characters are terrible and, in retrospect, surprised that Andrew Haigh or whoever like actually thought these characters were likable and that we are supposed to care abt them or their lives. Also, holy mother of god, you have two seasons of a show abt gay men in San Francisco and you don't have a SINGLE trans character? Sheesh...

Likability is not his strong suit see also Weeeknd, one of whom was not likeable and another who was likable but not believable as a gay man. He was more like the fantasy of a v chill straight mate we'd lust after, probably. See also Richie in Looking who was only gay because we were told he was.

Any thoughts on the movie? The show (and movie) are extremely well made from a technical PoV.

Moustache/restaurant guy is fairly likeable, no?

fortunately Haigh has proven himself a good director (i.e. 45 Years)

Agreed. Very skilled.

lol apparently I said this last March and still feel completely 100% the same way

Dom is the person I would loathe the most; he is everything I hate about gay men (seemingly nice but actually really smug and arrogant and will be a dick to you if they see nothing to gain from interacting with you)

like Dom is absolutely the type of person who will only talk to ppl who he thinks are a) hot b) beneficial to him in some way. Dom is the type of person who a mutual friend wd introduce me to in a group setting and the wd ignore me the entire time and give me one-word answers to all of my attempts at conversation.

good god that movie was terrible!! No narrative arc, horrible pacing, a parade of awkward dialogues that just referenced or wrapped up a bunch of things from the show (a lot of which coulda just been left unresolved?), no conflict, just saccharine nostalgia. It's like they had no idea what to do, also everyone inexplicably became like a mature decent person in a rly improbable way. What a pointless exercise.

never watched the movie, feel like i needed to rewatch the series to get to it. Sorry to hear it was a "couldabeen" fest

Season Two finally out on DVD.

i will watch that, then write me some Raúl Castillo-Adam Driver slashfic.

S2 >>> S1 (>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the movie) imo

yeah I'm fine w/ never watching the movie

Weekend? You guys are nuts.

Judging by the second and third epsisodes, Season Two has "Queer as Folk"/"Melrose Place"-level insight.

no, we're referring to the Looking finale movie.

oh lord

maybe u should watch it with the sound off

or turn up the vacuum cleaner

now that's an outdated euphemism

richie is too good for patrick

yep. richie is the best thing about the show.

not just the character, raoul castillo is a brilliant actor.

I loved Richie, and Looking felt like the TV show closest to my own life

haven't seen the film yet

Yeah, I had no clue how Patrick didn't just propose marriage to Richie like 2 minutes after meeting him.

Truly, this was the greatest of all gay friends in town threads.

Still haven't seen the movie, still never will probably, but I loved the series a lot.

movie is ok. doesn't really need to exist tho.