Rolling Stones' Goats Head Soup - is it underrated because it came after Exile?

or are there other reasons?

cause it's a great record you know.

It's underrated because most of the songs are retreads or suck.

It's one of only two TPL entries that I've done so far where I've very nearly fallen asleep while listening to it. The other was 40 Greatest by Perry Como.

I just heard "Angie" in a Parisian supermarket, seemed about right.

at least you agree it's underrated...

yeah most songs are retreads but so what?

it's not as good as the Beggars->Exile records but how many records are?

Winter, Star Star, Heartbreaker, 100 Years, Silver Train are all very good.

BTW, isn't Some Girls (which i agree is better) a retread too?

Angie suck

I can't stand "Heartbreaker" or "Silver Train" or "Angie," in which Jagger makes Bowie sound like a model of emotional transparency. I have no problem calling GHS their worst album of the period.

Better than It's Only Rock and Roll, that's for sure

Better than everything until Some Girls.
(and after for that matter)

it's the start of the decline, but the landslide is still to come imo

Black and Blue, Emotional Rescue, Dirty World – all better than GHS>

*Dirty Work

post-'exile' rolling stones POLL (studio albums)

i'm with the ilx consensus...

Love "Heartbreaker" -- or rather, "Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)" -- and "Angie." The rest makes me shout at them to wake the fuck up.

The tour was apparently ok, though; that Brussels show the released is nuts, and Taylor's completely raging.

*they released

Worth it for "Star Star" alone. As great a throwaway smutty Stones punk joke as "Summer Romance" or "Claudine" with a great ridiculous Jagger vocal in an "southern" accent so eccentric and invented it's practically its own dialect. You-ah-stah-fuckah-stah-fuckah-stah.

i'm on the record with my unabashed love for winter. star star's a hoot too. i'd put it on par with emotional rescue and a step up from black and blue and dirty work.

def would be A Return To Form if it came after "only rock'n'roll" and "black and blue" [ignoring for a moment the obvious personnel changes]

relistening to Star Star now: if they picked up the tempo gave it some Some Girls sharpness (like Respectable maybe) and shaved a minute off it, it would be blistering. As is, it's a fun deep cut to sing along to in the car.

I enjoy this album a lot: 'Dancing With Mr. D', '100 Years Ago' (love the way it switches through multiple sections), 'Heartbreaker' (those horns!), 'Angie' (of course), and 'Star Star' all being my personal highlights. Love the general vibe of 'Can You Hear The Music Too'. Some of the slower-paced ballads on this could do with a bit of editing, but otherwise no complaints.

this was one of the last stones records i got around to and, having heard so many "underrated" claims over the years, was expecting something decent. but aside from a couple of songs i find most of the album tuneless and boring. it sounds like a collection of half-assed and underwritten b-sides.

'Coming Down Again' sounds like it would fit snugly on George Harrison's Extra Texture. It kinda has the same "so laid back it sounds like the artist couldn't give a fuck" vibe to it. Thing is, though, I think it's better than anything off that Harrison LP, apart from 1 or 2 tracks.

It does need at least about a minute and a half to two minutes shaved off it, though.

Love it. Maybe it was the junkie excess at the time it was made but sonically it hits some - I dunno - nice sleazy, funky marks along the way.

That's one of the reasons I like the record so much: the vibe. Stones albums have always been an honest reflection of the general mood of the band at the time, and it's something that can't help but show through in the playing.

'Hide Your Love' is definitely my least favourite thing here, though.

I love 100 Years Ago.

yeah "100 years ago" is my favorite track.

i always figured people didn't like this because it feels like it set the template for subsequent shitty stones records, even though it itself is not shitty

angie rules btw

horrible album cover, only to be surpassed in short order by it's only rock n roll.

awww i like guy peellaert. i think bowie heard they were using peellaert and got him to do diamond dogs and get it out first(?)

diamond dogs is a good cover.

true, much better than IOR&R

Great album

if they picked up the tempo gave it some Some Girls sharpness (like Respectable maybe) and shaved a minute off it, it would be blistering.

How about shaving off 30 seconds and having Joan Jett sing it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ll6oCWiH7g

Every lyric website has this for the 2nd verse:

Honey, honey, call me on the telephone
I know you're movin' out to Hollywood
With your can of tasty foam

"With your can of tasty foam"?! That can't possibly be right, is it? I always thought it was "Where you can taste the bone."

Side 2 is essentially perfect, and how often can you say that about a record?
I'll go with underrated-shocking to see Xgau prefer It's Only Rock N Roll.

Nostormo, if you haven't heard the Brussels Affair yet, it's tremendous.

Bought it as a kid around the time it came out, lost or destroyed that copy, bought it again a few years ago at a record show. "Coming Down Again" is the only song I have on my hard drive.

there's a lack of arresting instrumental interplay on a bunch of songs on this record. a lot of it just seems flat-footed, which is weird since sticky fingers and exile are such great groove records.

it's still probably better than it's only rock and roll.

That's about right. Although the other one does have "Time Waits For No One," "Fingerprint File" and the cod but catchy reggae of "Luxury."

they kind of sound like (again) flat-footed rolling stones imitators on parts of both LPs. like, oh yeah that def sounds like mick & keith but some essential part of the genetic code is missing.

of course, it's been mostly missing for nearly 30 years by now, too, but in the context of the 1970s...

relistening to Star Star now: if they picked up the tempo gave it some Some Girls sharpness (like Respectable maybe) and shaved a minute off it,

Every single song on this album needs (at least) a minute shaved of it, the thing is 47 minutes minutes long ferchrissakes. Could do with losing the strings too. Nice gtr solo on 'Winter'. There isn't really anything (musically) surprising on this apart from 'Can You Hear the Music' and I'm no great fan of that track.

I'm giving this a spin again tonight, and yes, I do truly believe that this record is underrated as a consequence of coming off the back of three of their most astounding records. While it's not a flawless record ('Hide Your Love' is the weak link here, for me) it's not an out-and-out stinker either, and the band would go on to make far, far, far worse records than this IMO. It's easily one of my favourite records they made post-Exile, some beautiful songs on this.

It's underrated because it's called Goat's Head Soup.

oh man, Angie always brings the chills. i don't think it's even one of the Stones' best 50 songs. but still. maybe the tension it generates is due to Jagger's diction being sort of uncomfortable to listen to.

GHS is the next box set. 4 discs, 3 'unheard songs', out in September, further deets to come

Single: "Criss Cross" Funky!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSpGnZmGWBk

:D

there’s an old ilm post about black and blue that’s like “its a 70s stones album, we’re good here”, like.. a given 70s stones album may not be on the level of Sticky Fingers, but it’s the 70s stones and just hearing those guys play, recorded in that good ole 70s style, is a fuckin treat.

unlike, say, this album.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/09/rolling-stones-jimmy-page-led-zeppelin-lost-song-scarlet

First physical release of The Brussels Affair too.

Brussels Affair fucking rules

yes and with all due respect so does this record

love the new track, a totally unexpected treat !

new-to-me anyway

GHS is not as good as the three previous records (what is?), but it's still good imo. It's weirder and moodier (and better) than It's Only Rock 'N'Roll, which should have "(So Why Bother)" appended to its title.

that album has some good shit too! the stones!

that was a hundred years ago!

Wau love this video!

"Criss Cross" has been on YouTube for a while and it SHOULD have made the album so no surprise it's finally getting a release. I'll probably pass on this one - there's at best an EP's worth of studio-recorded music that I'd want to listen to again - but if you like the album, it looks to be a pretty good set. (And "Brussels Affair" is really good - I have both the official download and the King Biscuit Flour Hour bootleg which has different performances of certain songs, and they're all enjoyable.)

i enjoy the alternate GHS sequence that was proffered on the poll thread here: Rolling Stones mid 70s Poll (post-Exile, pre-Some Girls)

starting w/ mid-tempo in media res contemplative folkish-rock "100 years ago" is a good call and brings to mind "moondance" starting with "and it stoned me"

call me lazy bones

i enjoy the alternate GHS sequence that was proffered on the poll thread here: Rolling Stones mid 70s Poll (post-Exile, pre-Some Girls)
I would've kept "Starf*cker." There's only three tracks on the album that I like listening to, and that was one of them.

this isn't the first legit physical release of brussels affair, but the earlier one is pretty dear:

https://www.discogs.com/The-Rolling-Stones-The-Brussels-Affair/release/6193040

When was Cocksucker Blues in the timeline? Around the making of this album? They should've done a DVD with this box.

^^It was filmed on the Exile tour, and fwiw there are a handful of clips from it in the Stones In Exile doc.

Criss Cross is really fun!

"Criss Cross" is groovy, fun and sounds good but there's not much of a song imo.
It's a bit like a jam version of "All Down The Line".

As much as I'd love to have that live material, no way in hell am I paying $150 for it. I'll settle for the $20 version so I can get the "new" songs.

i enjoy the alternate GHS sequence that was proffered on the poll thread here: Rolling Stones mid 70s Poll (post-Exile, pre-Some Girls)

― brimstead, Thursday, July 9, 2020 6:32 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I would've kept "Starf*cker." There's only three tracks on the album that I like listening to, and that was one of them.

― birdistheword, Thursday, July 9, 2020 7:02 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Glad people are still enjoying my mix, haha. The reason I axed Starfucker is because I think it's just too much of a pastiche, i.e. 'we need a rocker to end with', and it foreshadows the retread feeling I get from IORR. Same thing with 'Silver Train', which to me is just 'All Down the Line V2', and 'Dancing with Mr. D'. I do think the album in general is a bit of a drop from Exile, but I think it's because Exile is them reaching the endpoint of continuing along the same musical path, and Goat's is an attempt to change, which is admirable even if it's not always successful.

"Starf*cker" feels more like one of the key forerunners to SOME GIRLS for me whereas IORR generally feels much more conventional. Stuff like "Shattered" or "Respectable" were supposedly the Stones taking on or drawing inspiration from punk, but whichever it may be, it sounds like they used "Starf*cker" as a conceptual starting point to create those tracks.

Anyway, I'm not really a fan of IORR, it feels too ordinary and conventional to be anything close to a great album, but there's at least four keepers on there (including their best reggae song, "Luxury") and the Temptations cover isn't bad (their previous Motown covers like "My Girl" were terrible, so much that this may be their best Motown cover ever).

“Make a million for de Texan, twenty dolla me”

I'm not the biggest fan of some of the faster Some Girls/Emotional Rescue songs, but I can see what you mean with Starfucker as a predecessor, fair enough. I agree that My Girl is terrible, and Ain't Too Proud is much better in comparison, haha.

‘Fingerprint File’ is great...mind you I love ‘Hot Stuff’...

I love punky Stones, I can't stand Slurred Stones.

I had Goat's Head Soup when I was, I don't know, 12 or 13--it was among the albums I junked when I started collecting for real a couple of years later (meaning I started to treat what I bought with care). "Criss Cross" sounds pretty good; don't remember much about the rest of the album beyond "Angie."

Cover art doesn’t do the music any favors

Yes--just godawful cover art.

Another new song - "Scarlet" with Jimmy Page on guitar. Not bad. At least as good as stuff they released at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl0COtEG-TM

Like the music, especially the guitar sounds. Lyric is severely underwritten.

I've always felt "Goat's Head Soup" sounded like the shambling, drugged-out, loose and impulsive album I'd always heard "Exile" described as.

Shambling, drugged-out, loose and boring.

dang "Dancing With Mr D" is a stupid song...but I like it.

Basically I don’t really care for the Stones after Exile but this album is particularly boring indeed. It has no groove and is very badly recorded/mixed. I prefer It’s Only RocknRoll which is average but still more alive and fun (especially « Fingerprint File »).

That Page collab is cool though. Sounds better than anything on the album !

this is a top 5 stones record for me, i just can't understand why people fail to comprehend its genius

also the cover art is awesome

it's also a really cool and weird thing to name a record

The first three tracks are the best, after which it's lazy without compensatory rewards, "Star Star" and "Winter" (decent "Moonlight Mile" rip) excepted.

"Scarlet" is a beautiful mess. That Page tone...sweet.

Love GHS.

"Winter" is easily my favourite song from their post-Exile/preSome Girls interzone.

It's the best song on this album by a million miles.

another song for which Mick Taylor likely deserved writing credit

Comin Down Again encapsulates the album for me...and it feels like it's as long as an LP itself

Yes, that song is a chore to sit through. I said it upthread, every single song on the album is at least one minute longer than it needs to be.

yeah, that funk outro on "100 Years Ago" is ghastly and portended worse to come

The problem (with the Stones' mid-70s albums), which I was ignorant of for a long time, was studio musicians and sidemen taking over the band. The real problem with those albums was the band was led astray by brilliant players like Billy Preston. We'd start off a typical Stones track and Billy would start playing something so fuckin' good musically that we'd get sidetracked and end up with a compromised track. THAT made the difference.

- Keith Richards, 1983

What does Keef think of “Moonlight Mile”, then? Or really, does he see Mick Taylor as such a sideman?

He claimed to have come up with part of the closing riff on that, even though he didn't bother playing on the final recording - this is from a 71 Rolling Stone interview:

The only thing in Sticky Fingers I don't have anything to do with is "Moonlight Mile," 'cause I wasn't there when they did it. It was great to hear that because I was very out of it by the end of the album and it was like listening, really listening. It was really nice. We were all surprised at the way that album fell together. Sticky Fingers – it pulled itself together [...] I thought I wasn't on "Moonlight Mile" but the last riff everybody gets into playing is a riff I'd been playing on earlier tapes before I dropped out

Mick Jagger has always said he wrote at least the intro on acoustic, and I read a Taylor interview somewhere about him arranging the string parts, so there's a definite grey area.

So literally the only way you can get the Brussels Affair show now is on this upcoming, $150 box set? Jesus.

The version that came out on CD 8 or 9 years ago, apparently paired with a super deluxe version of the Marquee Club release is going for insanely high three figure amounts now and I can't find it streaming or available to download anywhere either. Hell, I can't even find an active link to the bootleg download.

Sorry, to clarify, I guess it was originally released as some weird exclusive only box set itself 8 or 9 years ago, then later repackaged in Japan with the Marquee set. Either way, both are long OOP and going for absolutely insane prices.

xp

setting aside the fact that i don't really care how keith richards rates his own music, it seems strange to criticize the music because the musicians are so awesome. it's really the musicianship i think that accounts for the depth and nuance of the tunes on GHS, like you can maybe criticize the songwriting on a lot of stones tunes but for me it's frequently about texture and feel, and that's precisely what makes GHS so great. whereas "exile" is comparatively flat, not the record itself, the record is more like a tapestry but the individual components, the tracks, are sort of one-note, kind of homogeneous within themselves. and then you have one of the most celebrated stones tracks, on one of the most celebrated stones records — "can't you hear me knocking" — and it's like, how is that not indulgence and over-extension of a good idea until it kinda becomes a snooze ? i realize that's not a popular opinion but whatever.

It is. Not many ILMers like "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?" I don't.

i don't mean just here, although folks here love it too, but i don't think it's controversial to say CYHMK is regarded as one of the best stones tunes.

and then in response to criticism of e.g. "coming down again" like

Yes, that song is a chore to sit through.

my feeling is the opposite, like why would you want a song that beautiful to ever end ?

Because I don't think it's beautiful?

And CYHMK is boring as hell.

My judgment? The Stones were zombies until B&B, on which "Memory Motel," "Hand of Fate," "Crazy Mama," and "Fool to Cry" redeem the last few years. Then Some Girls came along and boom.

Re "Moonlight Mile":

http://timeisonourside.com/SOMoonlight.html

xp lol i understand that other people don't think it's beautiful ! i was just saying that i think it's awesome and could go on forever. somehow five minutes of "let it loose" is fine but "coming down again" is an insufferable bore ? okay.

CHYMK would be rad if it didn't have the boring ersatz santana coda, the guitar riff is so good.

the Santana part rules too wtf @ this thread!

sorry i mean it's cool sort of but i don't understand why it's in the same song.

also the idea of not completely loosing your shit at the opening riff of "doo doo doo doo doo" (holy shit that guitar tone) and then immediately slinking into the grooviest body high when mick starts doing his nonsense drawl is like, i don't know, i just don't understand not being entranced by this weird amalgamation of sounds and emotions.

WTF @ CYHMK hate.

Also: FWIW, this deluxe box is probably gonna end up on Spotify, so there's that.

Seems like Zep was the only act that ever got these multi-tiered reissues right: You just want the album? You're covered! Want the just album & the bonus audio? You're covered! Want both of those plus vinyl and a coffee table book and a bunch of other crap? You're covered!

somehow five minutes of "let it loose" is fine but "coming down again" is an insufferable bore ? okay.

five minutes of "let it loose" is fine but six minutes of "coming down again" is an insufferable bore - to be accurate.

can’t you hear me knocking is fucking awesome

let it loose should be 20 minutes long

here to drop obvious truths in this thread

Is "Scarlet" about Scarlet Rivera?

Track was named after Page's daughter.

who was named in turn after Crowley's many Scarlets

if "Time Waits For No One" is zombie rock then I'm dancing with Mr D

For everybody who wants an extended 'Let It Loose', here's the next best thing - 7 minute long instrumental ballad from Nellcote, courtesy of a Nicky Hopkins worktape:

https://we.tl/t-UBEgmsKtkI

let it loose is great at any length

can’t you hear me knocking suffers in that the opening riff is so insanely tasty it’s kinda all downhill from there no matter what

feel like I need a “POX: Keef kicks it off”

tumbling dice duh, but “love is strong” and it’s twin “wicked as it seems” might make that list

what is 'love is strong?'

My bad, I don’t know 90s stones

idk what it is as a song but it’s a legit great open G riff and some smokin’ harp

It’s got that ‘94 technology aping ‘74 sound

Stripped was actually what got me into the Stones, go figure

Anyone listen to the bonus material on the new deluxe edition? I'm not exactly a fan of the album - there's only a few tracks that I like - and so far I'm underwhelmed by the outtakes. I'll keep trying with "Criss Cross," "Scarlet" and "All the Rage," they're being hyped as the lost classics. They're okay for outtakes, but I don't feel they're on par with the better cuts from this era.

I would love to have that Brussels Affair live disc, but no way am I paying $150 for the super deluxe edition. I'll probably end up grabbing the 2CD version at some point.

The War on Drugs mix of Scarlett is horrible and the Jacques le Conte one is kinda good?

unless I'm reading it wrong, the alternate mix above drops 'Hide Your Love', so I can't get behind it.

"Criss Cross" is good.

Yeah. Solid video too.

I just listened to this whole thing. I like the new songs just fine but won't return to them much. The first part of the Brussels show was good but older material like "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" didn't have the punch of the newer material, from Exile & GHS. "Happy" through "Angie" was very good, I can leave the rest.

Yikes

Bring the alternative cover Goats Head Soup LP to life with our brand new Instagram lens. The LP itself is available exclusively via the Stones official store on a very limited run, get your copy here: https://t.co/oWyRbGzl1G
 
Try the lens out now on the Rolling Stones Instagram pic.twitter.com/iqZNjAQYn1

— The Rolling Stones (@RollingStones) September 6, 2020

Goat head CGI looks like it's straight out of original Jumanji

Decent interview with the principals!

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/mick-jagger-keith-richards-goats-head-soup-lockdown-interview-1043673/

lmao

xxp

For everybody who wants an extended 'Let It Loose', here's the next best thing - 7 minute long instrumental ballad from Nellcote, courtesy of a Nicky Hopkins worktape:

https://we.tl/t-UBEgmsKtkI

― whitehallunity, Thursday, July 23, 2020 6:21 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

dang this is really lovely, is it worth seeking out the rest of this worktape?

I’ll forever r go back n forth on this one but today I’m feeling like Star Star is honestly the best thing on here

Keith's arm in that RS photo looks necrotic.

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/stones-goats-head-soup-aubrey-powell.jpg?resize=1800,1200&w=1200

Man, "Winter" would be such a great track without those dumb "Levon" strings.

This reissue is the bee’s knees. Other than the corny “remixes”. Page on “Scarlet” is just *wow*.

The live set on the reissue is awesomely noisy and the most house-disrupting thing I've played during COVID since the Hendrix poll.

https://i.imgur.com/9GROGxM.png

"Star Star" must be the dullest "controversial" song ever... the band sounds embarrassed to be recording it.

Without prejudice to the thread title/topic - the dropoff from Exile to this album is pretty extraordinary, IMO

Dropoff from this one to "Black And Blue" moreso. That one's just a plain lazy album, IMO.

b&b has some choice cuts, "hey negrita," "memory motel," and "fool to cry" are as good as anything they've done, but it does feel tossed-off compared to the previous two.

Though It’s Only Rock’n’Roll actually comes after GHS doesn’t it? And that’s even worse to my ears.

Tying to imagine “scarlet” played by Zep and it’s damn near impossible

Bonham just wouldn’t be able to handle that Charlie beat lol

It takes more than having Jimmy Page on your sing for it to sound like Zep. Ask David Coverdale.

Song. Obviously.

I'm not a big Stones fan, especially their later era, but I once had a memorable night at a party (w33d) where I really vibed on Black and Blue. Now I feel like maybe I should try to reevaluate Goat's Head and Only R&R.

B and B has Memory Motel on it right? Untouchable

Yep. B&B is my favorite b/w Exile and Some Girls, but, egads, "Hot Stuff" and "Hey Negrita."

Though It’s Only Rock’n’Roll actually comes after GHS doesn’t it? And that’s even worse to my ears.

― 29 facepalms, Wednesday, September 16, 2020 5:24 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

you're right, i always forget about that one, which is a true step down.

Yeah, Memory Motel was the track that really hit me at that party. Had somehow never heard it until 1990-something. (many xp)

honestly, i prefer the loose emotionalism of b&b to the sludgy hedonism of goat's head.

egads, "Hot Stuff" and "Hey Negrita."

I love both of these, gtfo.

B&B is so well engineered. It sounds great, especially the Virgin remaster.

There's almost a whole good album divided between It's Only Rock 'n' Roll and Black & Blue. I'd probably sequence it like this:

Side A
"It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (But I Like It)"
"Ain't Too Proud to Beg"
"Time Waits for No One"
"Fingerprint File"

Side B
"Dance Little Sister"
"Hand of Fate"
"Fool to Cry"
"Crazy Mama"

“hot stuff” is sweet, great opener

I do love those Rolling Stones and their music

For the life of me, I'll never understand what people like about the drippy "Fool to Cry" ("Crazy Mama" and "Memory Motel" are decent, though).

"Crazy Mama" is an example of why I love Jagger on electric rhythm guitar.

I love this album even thought it's considered the end of a magical run from 68-72. Listening to it, I was thinking about similar albums by other artists. Thinking of a poll, but right now just compiling a list (mostly dinosaur acts):

The Rolling Stones - Goats Head Soup
Led Zeppelin - Presence
Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
The Beatles - Let It Be
CCR - Pendulum

Would Erotica fit in here? A Prince album?

Is this on some level the battle of the New Jersey's? Idk.

There are probably Pavement and Stereolab albums that fit in here too.

Lovely story about my favourite song from the album

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2496164/angelina-jolie-reveals-the-story-behind-the-tattoo-she-got-for-her-late-mother

Is this on some level the battle of the New Jersey's? Idk.

More like overlooked follow-ups suffering in the shadows of Iconic Releases.

See Also:

Fleetwood Mac: Mirage
Clash: Combat Rock
Tom Petty: Long After Dark

Deep Purple: Who Do We Think We Are

I thought CCR's "Pendulum" was still rightfully considered part of their great run of albums (despite "Rude Awakening #2"). Mardi Gras really signaled the end, a great double-sided single buried amidst dull and uninspired music.

More like overlooked follow-ups suffering in the shadows of Iconic Releases.

Yes, but, I'm sure there is some Bon Jovi fan somewhere saying that's what New Jersey is.

Otoh, I'm not sure anyone is voting for New Jersey when you put it together in a poll with Presence.

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is part of the classic BS run imho and so is its follow up Sabotage. It’s Technical Ecstasy where things really go off the rails

Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants? Trust by Elvis Costello? Caribou/Rock of the Westies/Blue Moves?

Maybe some guidelines are needed about the length of the preceding run of successes, and what makes the album under discussion a disappointment, etc.

I was thinking that the run of success should be at least three "classic" records, otherwise there would be so many possibilities here. Classic is, obv, in the eye of a beholder, but I am thinking of a pretty high standard where there is a sense (fans and/or critics, then or now) that the band overall can do no wrong. The disappointing album then is considered a mistaken change of direction or a misstep that doesn't meet the previous high standard. Not that the band couldn't produce another classic album later, but that there is a sense that the disappointing album is a distinct break in the classic run and the band entered a new phase.

The Rolling Stones - Goats Head Soup
Led Zeppelin - Presence
Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
The Beatles - Let It Be
CCR - Pendulum

Would Erotica fit in here? A Prince album?

Is this on some level the battle of the New Jersey's? Idk.

― reassessing life after bookmarking a Will Smith thread (PBKR),

nobody thought GHS signaled a commercial decline, especially since GHS outsold EOMS and produced a #1 single.

Well, commercial success doesn't equal quality - there is a reason ppl refer to their classic run as 68-72 and not 68-73 - but that is the discussion: albums considered a break from a classic run that (maybe) are themselves classic but in a different way.

But I guess you are addressing my question re battle of the NJs.

“Winter” is a boring clunker. Sounds like some high school poetry …“just learned these two chords on guitar and now I’m going to write a song”
Mr D and Heartbreaker are fire tho

But I guess you are addressing my question re battle of the NJs.

― reassessing life after bookmarking a Will Smith thread (PBKR

yeah

xp Mr. D, Heartbreaker, 100 Years Ago are all top tier Stones for me. I think Winter is great, but it and stuff like Coming Down Again points out that the album gets by on vibe more than the previous four albums. But what a vibe! It's like they took the strung out, indistinct elements of Sticky Fingers and Exile and made a whole album of it.

Is it just me or is there way more keyboards on this album than the previous ones?

and those keyboards dominate the next two albums.

other than the singles, I never heard this record until like 2014 or something… I think "starfucker" was notorious for the time, but now you could probly "be rilly rilly into the Stones" but never have heard the song… and "can you hear music," with hints of the Jajouka/Brian Jones record, is maybe the closest they ever came to mystical proggish shit; also MJ at least was noticing Bowie and T Rex at this time, which certainly influenced the presentation/packaging…

Mr. D is their Alice Cooper move.

yep, good point

This was the first Stones record I ever owned, and for that alone it would have a special place in my heart. It's got a few bangers on it besides "Heartbreaker," though: "Hide Your Love," "100 Years Ago," "Dancing with Mr. D."

"Angie" is good but overplayed.

Joni Mitchell - For The Roses

Rock of the Westies

Foot Loose and Fancy Free?

Blue Sky Mining

Border Lord

Rock of the Westies seems like a classic NJ album: still managed to debut at #1 like its predecessor; one smash #1 single; a follow-up that stiffed, his first to miss the top ten in three years.

this is maybe a 70s mini-genre of albums where drug fatigue caught up with the artist

For the Roses is underrated, but it's more like a "detour on the road to greater success" record. Joni's would be Hissing of Summer Lawns or Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, depending how you view her career.

The problem with Rock of the Westies is that no-one I've heard refers to Caribou as one of a string of great albums.

Goodness or greatness has nothing to do with qualifying for a New Jersey, though.

And plenty of critics think Honkey Chateau, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, and Captain Fantastic... qualify as good to great albums, incidentally.

I was still going by the original post in this revive: "end of a magical run".

Caribou had "Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me"--which is magical enough for me

also Caribou came out 8 months after GYBR, which is ridiculous by today's standards

OK, but Goats Head Soup had "Angie", that makes it even more of a match.

but Angie sucks

yeah

this is maybe a 70s mini-genre of albums where drug fatigue caught up with the artist

This is a significant factor and maybe more what I am going for (cf Presence).

Angie, is awesome wtf.

So time for my Angie story. Girl I went to prom with in HS was named Angie and so I gave her a cassette of GHS even though I didn't know the album. She looked at it and gave it back to me saying, "my last boyfriend gave me this album." I didn't listen to it for 20+ years after that.

What a heartbreaker!

(Doo doo doo doo doo)

imagine what Amanda went through

Coincidentally enough, the first two Elton John albums I bought were Madman Across the Water and Rock of the Westies (which must have been his latest at the time). Talk about a study in contrasts.

I suppose you could add Aerosmith's Draw the Line

"Draw the Line was untogether because we weren't a cohesive unit anymore," guitarist Joe Perry admitted in the Stephen Davis band memoir Walk This Way. "We were drug addicts dabbling in music, rather than musicians dabbling in drugs.

Aerosmith had a run of two great albums--well, okay, two great albums and one almost great album. Admittedly, the two were great fucking albums, but it's been 46 years now.

I would argue that every Aerosmith album from the debut through Rock in a Hard Place is at least worth hearing, nothing they've done since has even risen to the level of mediocrity, and some of it is among the worst music ever recorded in English.

Aerosmith was great until they signed with Geffen
Though I would love to hear mid 70s version of “elevator,” that song is great even it *sounds* like sh1t

Sped up and roughed up around the edges, that tune would kick

Rats in the Elevator

Yes!

There's Glitter In Me Cocaine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOUetwr3h04

Love Charlie's "This Fuckin' Guy Over Here..." reaction cutaways.

^^Which is basically Charlie in all their '70s promos.

End of Prince's magical run (relatively) would be Lovesexy, right?
Also Grateful Dead Wake of the Flood

Love that video. (Love most of the Stones' proto-music videos from the '70s.) Mick Jagger looks like someone's aunt in a lip-sync contest. Mick Taylor looks 14. Bill Wyman looks like he's in Black Sabbath. Charlie Watts looks like he wants to throat-punch everyone else. Keith is...present.

"Hand of Fate" is a banger as well.

I'm a afraid Keith is going to spray teeth everywhere every time he steps up to the microphone.

Is Wake of the Flood considered a disappointment?

I’m listening to this for the first time because of this thread.

What do you think?

He's probably still asleep.

xp With Prince it depends how you think about it. His sales basically declined, album to album, from Purple Rain through Lovesexy, with the cover nude basically cementing the "Prince is Weird" mainstream narrative. His commercial fortunes then actually improved with Batman and Diamonds & Pearls, before another tumble. Artistically it's arguable but I'd venture that many Prince fans think his godlike run definitely includes Lovesexy; if it had a different cover I think fewer people would consider it a falloff.

In Europe he did better during the late '80s than in America, and look at his album hits in England after that.

I like Elton John, but he's mostly a singles artist to me - beyond a handful of deep cuts, the only albums I really enjoy as albums are Honky Chateau, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and Rock of the Westies. I want to say "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word" may be the last memorable single of his "classic" run, even though I don't get the impression many fans like the album it came from. (I don't.)

Prince is a little more complicated because he kind of rebounded a few times, but as a massive Prince fan, I collected "everything" from his self-titled second album all the way to The Truth. (I do have "Soft and Wet" and the title track from For You on a homemade compilation.) But except for The Gold Experience, things were kind of uneven from Lovesexy to the end of that period. He was so prolific that with some pruning those years could've had some rock solid consistency, but you had stuff like Tony M being the weak link in the NPG, soundtracks like Batman and Graffiti Bridge that weren't going to be major works given how they came together, a three-hour album that had at best 90 minutes of great music, etc...

That's a lot of Elton John to love, actually.

It’s pretty good, particular Side B.

xp Except for a few big omissions, I thought To Be Continued was an excellent box set and somewhat underrated - it's almost a perfect Elton John collection, and that's four CD's packed to the brim. Sounds modest compared to the gargantuan sets released now, but for a consistently top shelf career retrospective, four CD's is a lot.

I just realized I misread "That's" as "There's" hah...yes, guilty as charged!

Is Wake of the Flood considered a disappointment?

The release fared better on the pop charts than their previous studio album (1970's American Beauty), reaching No. 18.[7]

it's worth it for "winter" & "coming down again" & most of the rest is ok.
lots of people (critics, anyway) say "listen to the music" & "dancing with mr d" are rotten, right? i like both those. "angie" is very bad tho, turn off the radio time.

When the guitar riff first appears by itself in the opening of "Dancing with Mr. D," it's pretty awesome. The lyrics get a lot flak, but they were kind of hard to make out - I didn't even know what Jagger was singing until I read a lyric sheet.

"Winter" is pretty nice - I think Glyn Johns loves that track more than anything else on the album - and Billy Preston is especially good on "Coming Down Again."

Been digging on this cover. It's such a stomper. Sorry back to the soup...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvYrN6sxaA

Heartbreaker is some legit 70s funk. Maybe it's the lyrics but you know that Jagger was trying to get Superfly as f on that tune. It sounds like it should be in some lost NY exploitation crime movie with Robert Blake and Roy Schieder. It would be the theme to the 70s @ Satriale's

Roy Schieder as a young uncle Junior. That would kick ass.

Billy Preston is especially good on "Coming Down Again."

...so good he steals the credit from Nicky Hopkins!

Jesus, I mixed it up with "100 Years Ago" (which ALSO has Hopkins, but I'm thinking specifically of Preston on the clavinet).

HIDIN IN A CORNER IN NU YORK SITTY
LOOKIN DOWN A 44 IN WEST VIRGINNY

"Winter" is a jam.

Sometimes I wanna wrap my coat around ya

other times I worry you'll stain it

"Winter" is a jam.

I don’t hear the half magic in “winter” that I do in the other two