TS: Billie Jean vs. Little Red Corvette

guess i shoulda known
by the way you parked your car
sideways that it wouldn't last

In most situations, LRC would get my vote. But Billie Jean omg.

billie jean is arguably MJ's finest hour

This is impossible. I prefer Smooth Criminal to Billie Jean, but LRC is maybe my first or second favourite Prince, but Billie Jean is just stunning and all time and so super-danceable.

It's gotta be Billie Jean really, hasn't it? I mean, you play LRC in a club and people like it but BJ doesn't let anyone leave the dancefloor.

I'm interested to know about the relative popularity of these two artists in the '80s. Growing up in the UK, EVERYBODY at school knew Michael Jackson's music, wanted to moon walk, watched the film, played the video game, danced to Thriller at Halloween etc.

Whereas Prince.. well naturally everyone knew who he was, but I don't really remember people knowing his music and personality quite so well. It's not like everyone went crazy for Batdance or anything, and I really discovered his music a lot later via a hits compilation.

Was it because Prince's style was considered a bit too raunchy for school discos? Or is it a matter of geography? Or was MJ just such a big personality that he eclipsed Prince's mad reclusive genius?

One of these tracks is 'Billie Jean' and the other isn't. Voting for 'Billie Jean'.

Was never a fan of Billie Jean, even when I was a four-year old kid with one of my first record albums. It seemed like the least relatable of the singles to me. #challops

Billie Jean is just the definitive MJ to me

Whereas LRC IMO isn't even the best 1999 single

Prince didn't take off in the UK until Parade; for a while he sold more records there.

Prince's 80s UK chart performance is as bizarre as he was (Paisley Park the first single from ATWIAD ahead of Raspberry Beret and just a few months after the 1999/LRC re-release being his biggest hit to date).

Purple Rain surely sold more than Parade at the time here tho.

Whereas LRC IMO isn't even the best 1999 single

I like "1999" and "Let's Pretend We're Married" as much as the next guy, but ...

Billie Jean is great but LRC is top 20 all time material

I was at a dentist appointment last week and before my hygienist came in, I could hear her singing along with Little Red Corvette while it played on the radio in the other room. She stopped before it got to the "Trojans, and some of them used" line.

I guess that makes it alright

lol :D

I don't really like BJ. LRC for sure.

Girl, you got an ass like I never seen
And the ride, I say the ride is so smooth
You must be a limousine

BTW, I voted for Billie Jean

prince > MJ
but
BJ > LRC

"Corvette" and it's not really close, "Billie Jean's" good but has aged in a way that one hasn't. also I like other Thriller songs more

I'm much more OK with the idea of LRC being Prince's signature song than BJ being MJ's.

LRC might be Prince's signature song in some universe, but not this one.

The bassline in Billie Jean is the best thing about either of these records, so that.

yes, but the bassline on Smooth Criminal is better, as far as I've ever cared and will ever care.

Fuck michael jackson LRC all the way for being a much weirder song/single

little red corvette sounds baroque, dated, insular to me, not bad things at all, they are great things since we're talking about prince here, but i am always totally amazed that billie jean still sounds so urgent and modern, one of the very few pop songs that gives me goosebumps every single time.

little red corvette packs all the mysteries of sex into a five-note synth hook

I break it down like Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough>I Wanna Be Your Lover, but Little Red Corvette>Billie Jean. (I kind of prefer Wanna Be Startin Somethin on Thriller).
Actually it's more like Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough>nearly everything.

anytime i hear "wanna be startin somethin" i think of this post:

--Whenever I'm in a convenience store and see Tillamook County Smokers beef jerky, I sing "Tillamook County Smokers" it in my head to the tune of Michael Jackson's "You Wanna Be Starting Something"

― uәʇɹɐƃu!әʍ ˙ƃ ʎәu!Ⴁʍ (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:14 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yamaha

LRC might be Prince's signature song in some universe, but not this one.

Both artists are bigger than one "signature song," obv. It was mostly a hypothetical way to decide how to vote.

Technically, this is Prince's signature song.

http://images.45cat.com/prince-and-the-new-power-generation-my-name-is-prince-1992.jpg

Fuck michael jackson LRC all the way for being a much weirder song/single

― Οὖτις

"Billie Jean" has the creepier bass line, strings, and lyrics by any stretch.

Billie Jean is creepier because MJ is creepy, but that wasn't what I was getting at. Structurally Billie Jean is quite conventinal - common time rhythm, hook-verse-chorus etc. - as noted it's a dancefloor filler. LRC's drum track is bizarre, it builds up and recedes throughout the song (not a dance track at all), then the Eddie Hazel guitar solo in the middle and in the refrain (a good deal more interesting than BJ's four-note guitar solo bit), then the song more or less stops to give Prince room for some more squealing vocal acrobatics and goofy double-entendres, and then it glides along for another minute-and-a-half with the vocal call and response. This is just a strange way to arrange a hit single, it doesn't bear much resemblance to anything else at the time nor have any real clear precedents.

a good deal more interesting than BJ's four-note guitar solo bit

I'd contest that.

this is actually really hard but in the end i had to give the nod to Prince. you really can't go wrong with either song but have changed the station on MJ's song (not again) and not Price's song.

billie jean is so good that even the pepsi version is awesome. on the other hand little red corvette was the first prince song i ever heard and i still find it just as haunting as ever -- all that whispering and squealing, eerie silences, crazy tempo changes, and prince managing to make the line 'girl, you got an ass like i never seen' sound weirdly eloquent. but there really is no wrong answer here.

guess i shoulda known
by the way you parked your car
sideways that it wouldn't last

― resulting post (rogermexico.), Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:59 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sheer giddiness

prince ftw

love both but "billie jean" easily. lrc sounds sluggish smushy and flat in comparison. drums aren't loud enough.

does billie jean even have chord changes? lrc has a regular chord progressions.. its "strangeness" is due to its shitty diy sound. it's good shitty, though!

chord progression in LRC is def conventional, but the arrangement and execution are bizarre

does billie jean even have chord changes?

don't forget the pre-chorus!

Ha, i actually just remembered the pre-chorus as i was eating lunch and thought to myself "damn, what a jam".

I definitely would've picked LRC ten years ago, another ten years and i'll probably flip again

We should poll several Prince/MJ pairings:

Bad vs Sign o' the Times
PYT vs Take Me with U

this is the only one that's even a contest

despite the fact that i just had a wonderful little moment with my son teaching him to moonwalk and sing the chorus to "Billie Jean," this is so easily forever "Little Red Corvette" for me

nothing touches Billie Jean

Was out for dinner tonight with some friends and put this question to them. All four of us say LRC.

nothing touches Billie Jean

except for MJ, who then refused to take responsibility

"Corvette" is awesome wtf is up with you people

Was out for dinner tonight with some friends and put this question to them. All four of us say LRC.

― MaudAddam (cryptosicko), Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:20 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the four wisemen

the four tin eared men

prince is about even with kate bush in terms of annoying "omg bacon" style overreaction these days. it's like if you don't get all speaking-in-tongues foaming at the mouth about them you're a total poser.

the "people always told me..." prechorus is the best part of BJ, whereas there are 100 best parts of LRC.

lrc has no bass, thumbs down. i can't dance to this compressed new wave shit

the "people always told me..." prechorus is the best part of BJ, whereas there are 100 best parts of LRC.

― replacements gustafsson (get bent), Wednesday, September 17, 2014

OTM

people going with Prince here, is there any Michael Jackson song you would have voted for over LRC? is there any Prince song that people voting against LRC think is better than Billie Jean?

Gotta go with Billie Jean. I love both songs but sometimes Little Red Corvette will come on and I don't feel like listening to it, whereas I always, always want to hear Billie Jean.

lrc has no bass, thumbs down. i can't dance to this compressed new wave shit

― brimstead, Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:38 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM. I like the song just fine but I'm not sure how I'd react, dancing-wise, to it playing in a social setting. The chorus is kind of anti-climactic, 'litt-le red cor-VETTE / baby you're much too fast', like you expect it to really kick in but it just rises up and diminishes, ahem, much too fast. The production could definitely do with being tweaked - there's something thin and plasticky about the overall sound that just doesn't quite hit me in the chest like BJ.

I like Prince more, and "Corvette" is probably one of his top 5 singles for me. but "Billie Jean" just never really rated as one of my favorite MJ songs.

she did a little squat at "jockeys"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d55_1248476389

I voted BJ and imo the only Prince that is on par with it is When Doves Cry. Maybe I've a preference for sparse and funky.

I think most of my friends don't know LRC, but EVERYBODY knows BJ. Doesn't mean it's better, but I think "When Doves Cry" would've made a better comparison.

people going with Prince here, is there any Michael Jackson song you would have voted for over LRC?

nah I hate MJ

http://rankings.gawker.com/prince-madonna-and-michael-jackson-singles-ranked-1635961045

(BJ just barely over LRC.)

I've been thinking about all of Prince's Revolution-era singles and almost every time I stack one up against Little Red Corvette, the challenger is better. I don't dislike LRC by any means, but it's midgrade Prince at best.

Will take LRC over "When Doves Cry," at any rate.

nah I hate MJ

― Οὖτις,

you need a love that's gonna last

"When Doves Cry" vs. "Billie Jean" would have been a much closer call for me, but I still think LRC > both.

"I Would Die 4 U" vs. "Wanna Be Startin Somethin"

always thought "When Doves Cry" was a lifeless dirge

Maybe it's just like your mother.

ha

Verses of LRC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chorus of LRC

Strangeness and "thin and plasticky" sound are a large part of what attracted young new-wave me to Prince. Now I'm trying to imagine LRC with big, glossy Quincy Jones production.

imagine it sounding boring and you're done

Billie Jean easily

is there any Prince song that people voting against LRC think is better than Billie Jean?

maybe Controversy!

dog latin its cool if dancefloor efficacy is important to you but by that measure calvin harris > paul mccartney so hmm

Billie Jean is great. But not many songs are better than Little Red Corvette.

^^ QED

BJ. I feel the better comparison would have been between BJ and When Doves Cry tho.

Or between LRC and Rock with You or Don't Stop til You Get Enough

everybody comparing parts of LRC or judging it as a dance track are on the wrong track entirely. that song does it's own thing and it's breathtaking

you must be a limousine

I voted BJ and imo the only Prince that is on par with it is When Doves Cry. Maybe I've a preference for sparse and funky.

― DISMISSED AS CHANCE (NotEnough), Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:08 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...then surely you should also acknowledge Kiss (which I prefer to either, though it was an acquired taste, and it's possible I've largely missed what makes WDC great, which I don't think it is)? I don't regard BJ as the best on Thriller (nor LRC the best in 1999, necessarily), and admit to generally favoring Prince as the less creepy of the two weirdoes (and perhaps the more "rock" of the two "r&b"ers), and to having slightly disliked BJ since hating 2nd grade or whenever it was circa my first exposure to both megapop and its corporate (fast) food cognate, but I was ready to vote either way, and a re-listen confirmed that my vote is still for LRC.

I think I dislike now the same things I did then about BJ, even if I didn't know it, starting with the synthesized (?) strings that are just one sign of a taste-challenged overproduction that at times includes MJ's voice itself (though he does have some fine moments as well - I isolated the "People always told me" passage even before I saw JBR's post), and from which the relatively dinky-sounding guitar solo actually comes as something of a relief. I mean, I recognize that it's a different kind of song, but imagine if you hadn't put all that extra stuff on top of the great beat, the way (t)he(y) hadn't on Off the Wall (or Destiny) or even Thriller's better tunes - still-disco WBSS of course, Beat It (which I have taste problems with as well, extending from the guitar pyrotechnics to the vocal ones - the semi-unintelligible "no one wants to be defeated" part of the chorus tastes in my memory exactly like terrible soda), and above all the title track that absolutely flattens any such quibbles. Instead, a potentially great dance tune was subsumed within the weirdo's encroaching cinematic fantasies/paranoid delusions. LRC, otoh, seems to be very much the product of a recognizable human being, and that's my bottom line.

Incidentally, who thinks "Stan" was (un?)consciously modeled on BJ?

If you take all of the extras, including paranoia, off Beat It, you might end up with a dance tune like the B-52's' Mesopotamia. I'm not going to claim that it's a more socially useful song, but I definitely like it better.

Also, can someone explain why, on WBSS, MJ keeps calling me a vegetable? That doesn't seem very nice.

This is the only time I intend to vote for MJ over Prince

i dunno why but somehow it's mildly startling to see someone say 'i hate MJ,' seems like there's more agreement on his at-least-occasional-classicness than any other artist i can think of -- whereas i wouldn't blink an eye if someone said they hated the beatles, stones, elvis, etc.

there's a deny thy father thing going on with the boomer hate. sort of looking forward to a day when 80's music is less revered.

my loathing of pop music's most overrated egomaniac is p well documented around here but I'd be happy to go into it further if you like.

I am not a baby boomer.

I meant hating stones/beatles/etc typically has "screw you grandma you don't know me" undertones aimed at boomers

oh, i've got no problem with anyone hating MJ but it's interesting to me that he's become something of a sacred cow post-death -- i can remember a time when he was seen with a lot more ambivalence. i recall a lot of ppl expressing extreme disgust at the idea of him owning the lennon-mccartney catalog, way more intensely revulsed than i think they would have been if some random faceless corporation had owned the rights.

lots of people have always hated michael jackson

it's pretty easy to hate any omnipresent pop star. just look at their smug mugs.

I don't think anything changed post-death (great term, post-death). He was a joke for years, decades practically.

MJ is kind of like the Star Wars franchise - something I loved as a small child that has since become grotesque and unenjoyable after decades of overexposure, hysterical adulation, and the bloated weight of self-importance. I can't really locate anything to enjoy in the music itself. I've heard it all so many times and its subtexts - abuse, narcissism, Peter Pan syndrome, paranoia, delusions of grandeur - are all singularly unattractive, not sentiments I enjoy reveling in. As dance music there's a million things I would prefer, primarily from the eras immediately prior to his peak (funk/disco) and immediately afterward (hip hop). As 80s synth-funk/R&B goes MJ's weirdo obsessions (circa Thriller we have horror movies, pedophilia, illegitimate children, and an ode to either masturbation or gang warfare who can be sure) just gross me out and lack any sense of fun. In light of the arc of his life enjoying this stuff seems morbid and depressing in the extreme, sort of like how I feel listening to Nirvana. As an "innovator" eh what the fuck ever - he leaned on a lot of people sonically and stayed with the times for the most part. He owes a lot to the Motown machine and to Quincy Jones. I don't hear a lot of crazy formal innovation in his stuff that wasn't already happening in the late 70s and early 80s (Moroder, Prince, copping basslines from Rick James etc.). And I'm not really convinced that his vocal schtick of screeches and grunts accompanied by crotch-grabbing are any improvement over James Brown (or, since we're on this thread, again, Prince). Where he was unique was in the level of his stardom. But I don't give a shit about that.

xp

the way this clip morphs over 14 minutes is kind of mindblowing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5qm8Nu_JjI

i have watched the motown 25 billie jean clip a million times but for some reason i'd never seen bit just before that, the jackson 5 reunion thing. why were they wearing baseball uniforms/stirrups?

He owes a lot to the Motown machine and to Quincy Jones.

If Jackson's home demos are anything to go by, he doesn't owe Jones anything. The vocal and instrumental arrangements are complete, absent only a few horn stabs or string swirls (which, I'm told, Jones wasn't even responsible for anyway).

pop stars being egomaniacs, heaven to betsy, leave me with some illusions

also why do you guys insist on putting two great things in competition all the fucking time

If Jackson's home demos are anything to go by, he doesn't owe Jones anything.

Jackson only has four individual writing credits and co-producer credits on Thriller. Other people wrote and produced PYT, Thriller and Human Nature (and no one gives a shit about the other songs on the album). Similarly Jones produced all Off the Wall, and most of that is written by other people too. Jackson knew how to craft some of his biggest singles, but he constantly relied on other people, he was not some singular genius doing it all himself a la Todd Rundgren or Prince, despite the way he's often depicted. Not that this is necessary to be a great artist (see also James Brown or David Bowie or Dr. Dre or any number of huge figures), but I think it's bullshit when people make him out to be some kind of all-powerful creative force.

A truly great songwriter would have more to his resume than a half-dozen (however giant) singles. and that's all MJ has.

also why do you guys insist on putting two great things in competition all the fucking time

Because putting mediocre movies into countdowns got old.

A truly great songwriter would have more to his resume than a half-dozen (however giant) singles. and that's all MJ has.

― Οὖτις,

wait seriously? He wrote everything on Bad and from that point forward wrote or co-wrote everything.

Shakey, I don't mind your not liking MJ so much as you're using the rockist songwriter argument when in MJ's case it is flat-out wrong, especially when so many demos exist.

PYT is the most bewitchingly perfect pop song I've ever heard, it makes me think of being in school and watching people rehearse musicals, and all this effort and slog and graft and then it suddenly hits a point where it takes flight and looks effortless. MJ just seems totally in control all the way through the song in this really compelling way

Of course MJ relied on others; I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the idea of Quincy Jones as the (or even a) main architect of Jackson's successes.

He wrote everything on Bad and from that point forward wrote or co-wrote everything.

yes all of which is terrible

I only brought up the rockist songwriter/producer angle as part of it because people claim he was a genius at both. being a songwriter/producer is not necessary to being a great artist and it never has been. but if we're going to compare his songwriting/production work to others, I wouldn't even put him in the top 10 on that count. Of the stuff he wrote/co-produced "Rock With You" is probably the best. Even allowing that the other two big hits he wrote/co-produced from "Thriller" are up there as well, that's THREE FUCKING SONGS. which is paltry.

yes all of which is terrible

pfffft

I dunno how anyone can listen to "Bad" (the song) and not hear it as a totally desperate, almost comically inept manifestation of masculine insecurity. Everything from that point onward became by turns hamfisted and/or disturbing, whether he was singing about skin color not mattering (hmm gee wonder what's going on there) or fantasizing about fucking Diana Ross. Delivered by a manchild in a military uniform that builds giant statues of himself. Even typing this out makes me lol at the baldly ridiculous (and ultimately very sad and tragic) insanity of this guy's output. He was not a happy guy working through his problems; his catalog is a funhouse mirror of denial, delusion and solipsism. I don't really get how people relate to it.

I can't relate to Michael Jackson lyrically on any level. It doesn't stop me from thinking he's responsible for some solid jamz.

Good to great self-written MJ songs:

Workin' Day and Night
Don't Stop Til You Get Enough
Wanna Be Startin' Something
Billie Jean
Beat It
Leave Me Alone
Smooth Criminal
Who Is It
Remember the Time
Jam
Can't Let Her Get Away
In the Closet
Stranger in Moscow
Morphine

I had to stop cuz there's so many.

*and co-written I should have said.

Also, it helps that because I didn't have MTV until the late nineties he (and Madonna) came to me as a radio artist.

Other people wrote and produced PYT, Thriller and Human Nature (and no one gives a shit about the other songs on the album)

tbf the other two songs no one gives a shit about are Temperton's

i thought Thriller was known for people giving a shit about every song

(i give a shit about every non-ballad track)

have literally never heard anyone praise Baby Be Mine of Lady in My Life but sure let's hear it

xp

'baby be mine' is a fucking jam, i thought that was uncontroversial. like with many of his tunes, i've got even more appreciation for it after working on an instrumental (new orleans brass band) version of it recently. the melodies are pretty crazy (modal?).

"Baby Be Mine" is always played on adult R&B and quiet storm.

"The Lady in My Life" is a quiet storm staple and I've long used it as a litmus test for whose opinions I can take seriously about r&b

itt Shakey does a great Mr Snrub impersonation

'baby be mine' is a fucking jam

― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:45 PM (28 minutes ago)

i love "baby be mine" and "lady in my life"

hey Shakes, Marlon Brando didn't write any of his films

ohh, didn't realize Οὖτις is Shakey.

Thread needs Alex in NYC

Lady In My Life is spectacular

hey Shakes, Marlon Brando didn't write any of his films

do pay attention, old bean

I'm unaware of people claiming Marlon Brando was a great screenwriter fwiw

Only dud on Thriller is "The Girl Is Mine," and it's only dud because Paul McCartney goes fucking cornball supernova.

but your argument that MJ's work deserves devaluation because he needed Quincy Jones is curious. Few great musicians produced themselves! The Beatles needed George Martin, Bowie needed Visconti, the Heads needed Eno, Madonna needed Patrick Leonard, Janet Jackson needed Jam-Lewis, and so on.

Right, and no one says "man, Janet Jackson changed music in x way" without mentioning Jam and Lewis. There is a tendency with MJ fanatics/partisans to ascribe all manner of genius-level behavior to him, which is just not accurate, and that is what I was addressing. I don't think he was an amazing producer in his own right. I would say that the Beatles were not amazing producers in their own right either, etc.

perhaps in terms of this thread - populated as it is by knowledgeable folks with a more nuanced understanding of how music is made - that's a strawman argument. I was pre-emptively addressing claims that commonly pop up when discussing MJ's "genius" as a musician and the variety of fields involved - singing,songwriting, producing.

I don't think anyone here has called MJ a genius or denigrated QJ's contributions. BTW if you wanna hear how a QJ production changed depending on the artist's sensibilities listen to Donna Summer's 1982 eponymous album or George Benson's Give Me The Night. Even when Jackson worked with Teddy Riley on Dangerous the machine funk is harder and more contorted than any known new jack, and Jackson gets the credit.

yeah, I don't think any sensible person would say that MJ was a production/songwriting/musical genius like stevie wonder or prince.
but at his best, he was quite phenomenal at what he was doing (vocal and live performance, vocal and musical arrangements, some songwriting, production ideas, etc).
there are interviews in which quincy jones said MJ was amazing at finding the right groove for a song.
As a kid I was a fanboy of his (circa Thriller) and I still find OTW and Thriller fantastic. Bad is meh and Dangerous and almost everything afterwards is poor. that said it seems to depend on which album of his you loved as a kid as I've talked with some younger friends who got into him with Dangerous and who still love that album.

Even when Jackson worked with Teddy Riley on Dangerous the machine funk is harder and more contorted than any known new jack

okay now let's not go overboard

I can't think of too many new jack songs as steely as "Dangerous."

It's like Bell Biv Devoe never existed up in here

BBD were on ILX?!

I think "Jam" is harder than any BBD single I've heard.

I mean, from a vocal performance standpoint alone ...

Dangerous is just too long and way too patchy - classic CD bloat

I wonder how people would talk about that period had he trimmed it way down (76 mins ffs)

honestly minus "heal the world" and "gone too soon" i'd think dangerous was perfect

I like Prince more, and "Corvette" is probably one of his top 5 singles for me. but "Billie Jean" just never really rated as one of my favorite MJ songs.

― some dude, Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:32 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you know I get the sense our tastes are a little different but we've got a mindmeld going on on certain things. Def. agree

Also it's not "OMG bacon" lol, there's Prince shit I don't like, "Corvette" is just badass & a neat little tune

Prince's 1982 run is pretty unfwithable imo, three dope albums under three different guises/fronts

WHY IS THE WOMAN IN LITTLE RED CORVETTE WALKING AROUND WITH A POCKETFUL OF USED RUBBERS THATS REALLY GROSS PRINCE

you'd better be drinking ersatz coffee if you are reusing rubbers

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I dunno how anyone can listen to "Bad" (the song) and not hear it as a totally desperate, almost comically inept manifestation of masculine insecurity. Everything from that point onward became by turns hamfisted and/or disturbing, whether he was singing about skin color not mattering (hmm gee wonder what's going on there) or fantasizing about fucking Diana Ross. Delivered by a manchild in a military uniform that builds giant statues of himself. Even typing this out makes me lol at the baldly ridiculous (and ultimately very sad and tragic) insanity of this guy's output. He was not a happy guy working through his problems; his catalog is a funhouse mirror of denial, delusion and solipsism. I don't really get how people relate to it.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:20 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, posts like this are why ilx rules

seriously why do i have to relate to mj

"almost comically inept manifestation of masculine insecurity" vs. "intricate, electric failure of masculinity that is also totally funky, who gives a shit"

i agree with you, i love mj's music, but it's pretty disturbing and the sadness is hard to comprehend. this quote from before thriller came out: "Even at home, I'm lonely. I sit in my room sometimes and cry. It's so hard to make friends ... I sometimes walk around the neighborhood at night, just hoping to find someone to talk to. But I just end up coming home."

*the full scope of its sadness is hard to comprehend

is Michael Jackson outsider music?

absolutely

I dunno how anyone can listen to "Bad" (the song) and not hear it as a totally desperate, almost comically inept manifestation of masculine insecurity. Everything from that point onward became by turns hamfisted and/or disturbing, whether he was singing about skin color not mattering (hmm gee wonder what's going on there) or fantasizing about fucking Diana Ross. Delivered by a manchild in a military uniform that builds giant statues of himself. Even typing this out makes me lol at the baldly ridiculous (and ultimately very sad and tragic) insanity of this guy's output. He was not a happy guy working through his problems; his catalog is a funhouse mirror of denial, delusion and solipsism. I don't really get how people relate to it.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:20 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If the content of his music strikes any kind of chord in you its has to be because on some level it does resonate with you. The lack of filter on his presentation of these themes can be pretty jarring but you can't be looking very far inward if you've never felt comically inept in your posturing masculinity (I mean, that to me is a big part of what makes "Bad" so fun), or found your own conception of race and skin colour disturbing, caught yourself fantasizing about weird or inappropriate sex (maybe not Diana Ross...) and built edifices of yourself in your dreams (ymmv with that one).

I mean of all the ways in which a human being can manifest as outlandishly weird, unhappiness, denial, delusion and solipsism strike me as pretty universal (outsider music is an interesting tag I'd never considered). You may not necessarily be able to relate directly to it, but is it really that much of a stretch to see where it comes from and empathise with it?

voted "Little Red Corvette" I love how the song builds tension, climaxes, and then fades. In truth, I'm way too biased for this poll.

I appreciate "Billie Jean," but I think it mostly relies on the great sound it has. It has that moody/haunting vibe going on throughout the song.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Wow! Everyone came out for this one, huh?

Clearly songs that generate strong feelings in all of humanity. Impressed with how close this was.

Simple: I called my relatives and asked them to vote. Black Panther guards protected them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlY0H6PTIrc

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/obituaries/leon-ndugu-chancler-versatile-drummer-is-dead-at-65.html