Most Overrated Act To Get More Than Two Songs On Pitchfork's Best Songs Of The 80s

artists who had three songs on the list: David Bowie, The Cure, Janet Jackson, Madonna, NWA (if you count Eazy solo), The Pixies, The Smiths

artists with four: michael jackson, new order

artists with five: prince

new order i guess

new order is a very good shout

the clash tho

& shdnt guns & roses have been revised into the fucken trashcan by now (flag posts incoming!!)

the names on this list suggest that hip-hop aside the list is quite boring but that's pitchfork amirite!

oh and i still dng talking heads at all but i sorta mostly trust eno's judgement so *shrug*

i no that i'm the only one that thinks this, but kate bush is one of the most overrated acts in history so i picked her.

*know sorry stoned

50 spots?! Damn. I knew it would've made a difference, but that's a quarter of the results!

Could vote for a few of these, but Slick Rick seems the most eligible candidate for knocking off.

damn replacements are way more overrated should have voted for them i fucked up

kate bush is one of the most overrated acts in history

Kind of agree with you, but I do love Running Up That Hill quite a lot.

Tears For Fears by a million miles.

I didn't really care if Head Over Heels was on the list or not, but Everybody Wants to Rule the World is one of my favorite songs, period. From any decade.

i duno man people dont hold tears for fears in very high regard. they are in that weird middle area where people kind of like them, but they are no one's FAVORITE band. another band like this are psychedelic furs. where as kate bush and replacements people WORSHIP and get tattoos and shit.

ugh joy division

the answer to this poll is u2

I try not to let my feelings about U2 in the 21st century cloud my feelings about them in the 80s, so With or Without You would definitely be on any similar list I made.

I can't say who's most overrated, but purely based on my taste, the one I could most easily do without is Whitney Houston. I've never really been able to appreciate her singing - but I guess it's a straight-line from her to stuff like Celine Dion and American Idol, so clearly she's been influential.

^this

the answer to this poll is u2

― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Monday, August 24, 2015 8:58 PM

def

croup, you have thought about this list more than anyone on the planet including p4k staff

*flips a coin for Joy Division and U2*

http://covers.feedbooks.net/book/6678.jpg?size=large&t=1435714662

croup, you have thought about this list more than anyone on the planet including p4k staff

i'm ok with that, still got my work done

I somehow missed U2 in this poll. -1 Fleetwood Mac vote.

so many of these were good but unnecessary, they should have limited to one track per any album to cut down on redundancy

Could vote for a few of these, but Slick Rick seems the most eligible candidate for knocking off.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, August 24, 2015 6:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

terrible opinion

Perhaps. I've just never liked him.

I'd have to say Diana Ross, because we're talking about '80s Diana Ross, which is mostly pretty unspecial.

no use for Guns & Roses apart from Sweet Child 'o Mine, even that one I could have done fine without

Voted 'do we have to do a WORST poll? really? sigh.'

Yeah, moan moan mo.

The Replacements, that's an American thing, don't get it. I have never knowingly heard Frankie Knuckles! Must be better than Guns 'N' Roses though, amirite?

you are most correct

Joy Division, U2 or Springsteen

I don't really know what the Replacements sound like

I'm OK with more than one track per album if only b/c I'd hate for the title track to represent Purple Rain.

Pixies should walk away with this but won't. Voted Cure anyway because no one else will and I have no idea what Cure fanatics are hearing that is so transcendent, but can dig the Pixies at their best.

doesn't Arthur Russell have 2 on the P4K list?

The whole purpose of this thread is to show how anti-rockist you are but I gotta be me. Diana Ross solo sux 4eva

Went with Guns 'N' Roses.

Surprised U2 isn't sweeping this. I thought we were just talking most overrated act, not most overrated eighties catalogue. I like the first three songs on Joshua Tree as much as anyone, but U2 is still definitely the most overrated of these acts.

This is CLEARLY The Replacements.

I mean, I kind of hate Diana Ross and this is STILL The Replacements.

pixies blow imo, fuck that band

new order is okay but there is so much boring worship of that band

Voted Cure

no. no no no.

u2 is the easy answer but i don't particularly enjoy the clash songs that placed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8w7CCq036o

i never really got into whitney houston

One thing that constantly surprises me about millennial's music taste (and the Pitchfork list is definitely written by them, for them) is their total rejection of REM.

It's hard to believe that they only got one song on the entire 80s list, when they were arguably the most influential American rock band of the entire decade.

i don't know if they're rejected per se

rem would have soooo much more mystique if they'd split in 97, hard to miss a group that only half-went away

that said rem underperforming on critics lists says more about what critics feel the need to celebrate than what "the kids" are into

lest we assume the kids were really into los lobos albums in the 80s

REM is probably my favorite band, but what is there to say about them in 2015? it's better to open discussion more widely

if only the same applied to the stupid Pixies...

13 year old me thought their La Bamba cover was cool. I probably didn't really start getting into Los Lobos until I was at least 20-ish, though.

(alright, just in case this turns into The Defense Of Los Lobos, I love the latin playboys and How Will The Wolf Survive, I'm just trying to note the obvious that "critcs picks" != the pulse of the nation's youth)

(I know)

Haha I was just thinking about how Los Lobos got shut out of this poll. Will The Wolf Survive would be high on my 80s song list.

And I'm primarily basing my REM theory on a cd I burned for my young cousin who has cool music taste but hated Murmur. REM just stuck around too long, it's true. The kids just know them as this lame band of old dudes.

That never stopped me from getting into the Stones, but I wonder if I'd be even more into the Stones if they'd stopped at, say, Some Girls.

Whitney Houston - great voice, but never liked any of her hits

also, who the hell is Frankie Knuckles?

Dude had a few top 40s in the early 80s, wrote "I've had the time of my life" - kids are really into him now, I think there might have been a reissue

his duet with Ann Wilson is sweet.

Alfred I am not making some "lol rando 80s details" joke I am describing the specific career details of franke k. Please respect that.

also, who the hell is Frankie Knuckles?

Get out. Get out now.

No need for this much '80s Bowie on here. Dude owned the '70s, but the '80s are mostly known for Bowie being terrible. Certainly no need for Modern Love *and* Let's Dance. GNR didn't need two, either. Love the Replacements, but they could have gotten away with one, also, esp. to make room for one or two of the glaring omissions (which would be a great name for a new wave act).

And if there had to be two Bowie songs, "Ashes to Ashes" over "Modern Love."

'Chilly Down' over 'Let's Dance'.

Would knock off both Guns N Roses songs for some Devo tracks.

I couldn't find a playlist on spotify (I'm sure there must be people who made it into a list already but search function sucks or it takes some time to update). So here's a link, I'm sort of busy so this might take two days but half of the list is there already:

https://open.spotify.com/user/moteldemoka/playlist/491iIVQpdjtGOa8keqt0mP

bowie. i mean "let's dance"? really?

By the way, Luther Vandross should be on this list as it appears twice in the list once as Luther Vandross and the other as Change.

I love Frankie Knuckles but I love dozens of 80's house songs made by other people a lot more. I have no idea why he ended up with multiple songs on this list, unless it was a straight up "let's not forget to tack on a couple of songs by this guy who just died" thing.

im not a pixies fan, but there was definitely something magical about frank's scream and kim's stage presence/playing that is pretty undeniable, posers.

why would anyone vote diana ross. the album diana, 1980, the singles from it - im coming out, upside down, my old piano. classic songs ffs

hell, tenderness is a great track too

http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Golden-Retriever1.jpg
http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Golden-Retriever1.jpg
http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Golden-Retriever1.jpg
http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Golden-Retriever1.jpg
http://www.completedogsguide.com/images/dog-breeds/largepic/Golden-Retriever1.jpg

all the diana ross hate ITT is embarrassing. you should all be embarrassed

otm, wtf

otmmmmmmmmmmm^^^

fuck the pixies

fuck the smiths

fuck rem

and completely fujuuuuuuuuuuck guns n roses I mean seriously gtfo with that complete bullshit

ok the smiths were ok I guess but guns n roses is like the worst band

pixies are F/G, i'm not crazy about them

smiths EX+

rem are VG+

guns and roses i feel like a total herb for not liking them (although the intro to "welcome to the jungle" is Classic)

It's kind of comforting and familiar to be able to cast a knee-jerk vote for New Order in every poll like this.

Think I'm gonna say Pixies, for reasons no one will agree with. Partly for the weird critical over-rating of them, treating a creepy schtick band with a good sound into something MAJOR; partly because they are the mainstreaming of a certain kind of trash-horror ironic aesthetic, and for that reason I kinda hate them. I mean, to pick up on a comparison upthread, he Cure are an immensely limited band and only really have two songs, but their miserableness feels earned and their two songs (the funereal one and the fast aching one) are both really good. This is no doubt some authenticity bullshit, but Robert Smith seems to have a personality, call it a self if you will; the various Pixies just seem to have comic books they like....

I'm a fan, but I think more than one Frankie Knuckles track is excessive. I would gladly swap “Baby Wants to Ride” for "Father Figure."

I wonder how PF would've even policed a one-track-per-artist filter when putting together the final results. I don't think anyone would've been happy if Purple Rain had been the only Prince song in the top 200, but who's happy about him having four either?

Guns n Roses. no contest. I could make a case for Joy Division too probably in second place. Everyone else on the list is cool although some of them are certainly over-represented. I love Prince as much as everybody else but 5 songs including the top spot feels like overkill.

Should have limited songs to one per artist and Raspberry Beret should have been the Prince pick.

You're probably in a small club thinking Raspberry Beret should be the lone representation of Prince, especially when Pop Life comes from the same album.

Tears For Fears by a million miles.

Ok, it's a personal favorite and I'm not being serious. Purple Rain at #1 and nothing else from Prince would have been okay with me. If there's a rule that only the top voted song for the artist places I don't see what's so polemical about that particular choice. They can eventually release the list including duplicated artists.

Will pitchfork release the rest of the votes? Would be good to see what placed below the 200s

Regarding "pop life" this might sound like heresy but I absolutely love the lo-fi and miserable Yo La Tengo cover (under the DUMP alias) whereas the original Prince version just sounds ok to me.

They don't usually release the full list, but they used to release the ballots. Do they still do that? Dunno.

Purple Rain is like the most NOT-80s song Prince released in the 80s. Might as well have come from 1970.

The tears for fears record from Donnie Darko is overrated but dudes...everybody wants to rule the world is a 10/10 classic masterpiece

fuck the pixies

fuck the smiths

fuck rem

and completely fujuuuuuuuuuuck guns n roses I mean seriously gtfo with that complete bullshit

― marcos, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What corny ass challoping bs is this

everybody wants to rule the world is a 10/10 classic masterpiece

^ this

I mean I don't care about REM and don't listen to the pixies but come on

I don't know... in my mind Prince is hard to pin down to a certain decade. Some of his 70's songs sound very 80's and some of the 80's sound like 90's or per example Raspberry Beret could have sounded comfortable next to any song from 1968.

The whole purpose of this thread is to show how anti-rockist you are but I gotta be me. Diana Ross solo sux 4eva

― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:04 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this has to be the dumbest post in the thread

You know, a lot of people are probably going to listen to Frankie Knuckles' Your Love for the first time and recognize it as the song that AnCo sampled for My Girls

I guess we're getting into the weeds here, but Raspberry Beret sounds completely 80s to me run through a flower power filter. 60s pastiche with an eye on 80s charts. It's to the 60s what Groove Is in the Heart is to the 70s.

the song that AnCo sampled for My Girls

I could've gone through the rest of my life happily never having this brought to my attention.

Your Love 4EVA. Death to My Girls!

Lol I like both AnCo and Knuckles songs and never made the connection until now. It's so obvious, how could I have missed it? Is it really a sample? Or did they re-recorded it? It sounds like the same line and melody but the sound isn't quite the same.

I'm doing some quick google search and apparently it's not a direct sample and it's not credited. Even the wikipedia page brushes it off as 'the song resembles the frankie knuckles song"

Also it seems like it's not really a Frankie Knuckles song. It's by Jamie Principle and Knuckles just liked to play it and attached his name to it to make it more famous:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Love_(Frankie_Knuckles_song)

oops

this thread is super informative. like I had no idea the Pixies are a "creepy schtick" band with no personality.

Holding up Robert Smith as doing everything right the Pixies are doing wrong is weird. Dude sings so many songs about mouths and parts of mouths. Pixies sing about aliens and three day parties.

this thread is super informative. like I had no idea the Pixies are a "creepy schtick" band with no personality.

― alpine static, miércoles 26 de agosto de 2015 7:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This comment was also very weird to me but decided to pay no mind. I have never heard anyone associating the Pixies with horror aesthetics nor do I think there's anything particularly creepy about their sound.

Maybe surrealism but not horror.

ugh polls ugh bands ugh "one artist one song" ugh ugh but i had to pop in to say "Head Over Heels" is a zillion times waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the cheeseball "Everybody Wants To Run the World"

Incorrect. Thank you for playing.

I don't like DRoss much, but those singles listed upthread are pretty great.

Diana Ross saved my damn life, she's underrated - her '79/'80 stuff just rules imo

TFF has rad keyboard sounds but are one of the most insufferable bands, they have that proggy "here let me explain the world to you chumps" style lyrically. they're essentially Billy Joel with better taste

u2 obviously, but otoh the pixies songs in question don't really make the pixies seem amazing

like, literally every other song they released in the 80s > 'where is my mind'

Also it seems like it's not really a Frankie Knuckles song. It's by Jamie Principle and Knuckles just liked to play it and attached his name to it to make it more famous:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Love_(Frankie_Knuckles_song)

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:04 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thats not what this says

AnCo did not sample 'Your Love' - three note arpeggios are a pretty common thing.

this thread is odd. not bad, but kind of challop central.

i really like a couple tears for fears songs but this:

they have that proggy "here let me explain the world to you chumps" style lyrically.

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:01 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is very true and nails something i have sometimes felt in an inchoate way, so thanks for that.

i don't think i have a problem in theory with some artists owning huge amounts of real estate on this list. i mean i don't really care about this list full stop, so why am i even posting? because school hasn't started yet. new order should not have four songs, but i'd be okay with prince having ten tbh.

MJ, too. Janet, for that matter. could have ten and it would seem fair to me, i mean.

they have that proggy "here let me explain the world to you chumps" style lyrically.

Hello, Andy Partridge.

Gonna hop in here as much as possible to say Guns N Roses suck.

The whole purpose of this thread is to show how anti-rockist you are but I gotta be me. Diana Ross solo sux 4eva

― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:04 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this has to be the dumbest post in the thread

This post makes me feel unsafe. I will not be bullied by you and I will not put up with you mansplaining why I'm wrong to think that Diana Ross sux 4eva.

That would be a textbook example of mansplaining, I'll grant.

(In reverse.)

I'm just messing around. But I do find it odd how these threads are always an occasion to talk about how much rock music sucks (except the Smiths for some reason, who have more shitty songs than any "great" band).

why is it odd?

Smiths suck. There, that's evened things up a tad.

A lot of rock music sucks. Like The Replacements.

I think it's a way to fit in with the crowd more than an objective appraisal of the music. Rock music, or music made by white, American (for the most part except U2 is obviously an exception here) males is an easy target.

My intense personal belief that solo Diana Ross sux 4eva will get people angry, but the hatred for U2, the Replacements (who really are just the American Smiths) is welcome.

Obviously this is just my probably uninformed opinion and people like Alfred do not count in it because I've seen from your posts that you listen to everything.

Diana Ross only because we're limiting to the 80s.

I think it's a way to fit in with the crowd more than an objective appraisal of the music.

Think harder. Also, read other people's posts:

I mean, I kind of hate Diana Ross and this is STILL The Replacements.

― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Tuesday, August 25, 2015 9:51 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You're all welcome to hate the Eagles.

Axl Rose is a hateful muppet. That is a case of right place right time all-time lucking out and there are way more talented rock and pop and electro (where's the breakdance music?) musicians that get forgotten in lists like this for another yet showing of "Sweet Child of Mine".

I think, at this point, I'd like to read more discussion about why, sonically, the Smiths suck or R.E.M. sucks or the Cure suck or the Replacements suck or the Pixies suck. Conversely, after looking at some of the Pitchfork list, I think I'd like to read less discussion of why, sonically, a record like "In the Air Tonight" is great.

Diana Ross only because we're limiting to the 80s.

this is garbage

Think harder

About what?

I hate the Smiths but that's more of a case of I hate Morrissey as a person than anything.

I like The Smiths but I never listen to them

I think it's a way to fit in with the crowd more than an objective appraisal of the music.

this is such an odd binary if you think of it. Either you're taking a cold hard look at which acts are truly meritous, or you're being deceitful to impress others. no room to have a subjective but genuinely felt opinion.

like, i love the replacements, but to leap to "you're LYING" if someone prefers whitney houston is kinda absurd - if anything THAT suggests an inability to think objectively

Who said it's a binary? Not me. I am just saying that people like to have approval from their peers, especially in music which is such a central part of people's identities. And the way to get approval from your peers, at least on threads like these, is to complain about rock music and praise things that sux 4eva like solo Diana Ross.

I don't believe it's a conscious decision.

Pls read the title of the thread.

Lot of complaining to be expected in a thread titled "most overrate act".

it's a funny thing, nobody ever calls out this need for approval from their peers except when they're not getting it

A lot of rock music sucks. Like The Replacements.

there's no way of proving this without me embarking on a project I do not have the spare time for, but as a former Replacements loather (reading everybody say how fuckin great they were all through the early-mid 80s was such a drag to me every time I actually heard their records: this? this is the hill you guys are putting the flag on? this?) who did the thing I always end up doing -- sitting down with music I'm pretty sure I really hate and giving it a good hard "everybody likes this cake and I don't, what's in this cake" listen -- I wonder if you don't just hate 1) the singing, 2) the production/mix and 3) the aesthetic. Which was me, for years, but im2015o, the songs are actually very often super fucking great. like, the boosters are otm about a lot of the songs.

the records still sound like a fly caught between two window screens though, not in the positive "I love this noise band from Finland" way either.

detaching from having particular artists / aesthetics as a central part of one's identity is a good thing to do in your early 20s. maybe it should be a college course. of course then we're just adopting a meta-aesthetic. btw in this meta-aesthetic the Pixies still suck.

x-post about "read the title of the thread"
I did man. I'm also reading comments like these:

also, who the hell is Frankie Knuckles?
Get out. Get out now.

Could vote for a few of these, but Slick Rick seems the most eligible candidate for knocking off.

terrible opinion

the sound of those replacements albums has always been a huge issue for me but i prob need to try again

I wonder if you don't just hate 1) the singing, 2) the production/mix and 3) the aesthetic.

It is my opinion that 1 and 3 are intrinsic components of any artistic endeavor, so I don't think it's particularly fair or illuminating to say "If The Replacements were a completely different band, I might like them." (The only Replacements song I like is "Within Your Reach", which basically sounds nothing like any other Replacements song I've listened to.)

i started this thread because i wanted to hear who people MOST thought didn't belong on the list, rather than just a general sense that there was chaff. naturally those choices are going to be argumentative and subjective. if you genuinely think diana sux 4eva (a sentiment i personally have only minimal beef with, in that my fave songs of hers kinda work despite her flaws) you shouldn't have to go to some "oh people just like to hate on whitey to impress their friends" self-pity zone just cuz you got a little pushback

Sadly, I have better reasons to go into a self-pity zone than pushback on an 80s thread.

"Within Your Reach" is great, one of their greatest, but yeah, no resemblance to any of their other songs.

The kids I knew in high school who hated the Replacements were super into prog, so their hatred was primarily time-signature-based.

xxp

i mean i only have the slightest clue why people think sade is so great, but its not like i've deep dived on the matter. in terms of artists who've never meant shit to me i'd probably vote for her (frankie knuckles i don't think i've ever heard) and if someone was like "SADE ROOLS, CURE DROOLS" its not like i can't fathom reasons other than "wanting to look PC" that someone might dislike the cure, turgid crybabies who occasionally toss some proto-rebecca black on the top 40

Yeah man

sade rools cure drools

no no no

it should be "Sade is dope/Cure are mopes"

lol

I dig Sade but would not say that I love Sade (outside of maybe 'It's Only Love That Gets You Through', which is just...uhhh, words fail). But then I generally dig music that makes me feel like I'm in a JC Penney's ca. 1987.

Sade is dope / Cure are mopes
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP),

this should be the new board description

I'm just really glad "Is It a Crime" made it! Cool that a fan-fave made it over more obvious picks, although I would have taken "Smooth Operator" (or maybe "Love Is Stronger Than Pride"?) as my other Sade track.

It's weird to me that there's no hair metal on the list (closest thing is AC/DC and Guns n Roses, but neither really qualify, IMO). Also, very little mainstream rock in general. No John Cougar Mellencamp, no Dire Straits, no Duran Duran, etc.. Seems a bit narcissism of small differences.

well, in order to get John Mellencamp on the list, we would have had to drop one of the De La Soul songs.

I mean selecting only 200 songs to represent the '80s is no doubt a thankless task, so I can't be too hard on them, though yeah, it makes it a bit harder to defend multiple selections from some of these artists, though I also quibble with lots of their single-selection artist picks. Like Nirvana for instance - it seems a stretch to include them on an '80s list. If they'd never released anything after 1989 I think it's safe to say they wouldn't be on this list.

I havent looked at this list yet but this thread makes it seem afuckingtrocious (also: this,messageboard)

yeah, well that's true that Nirvana wouldn't appear on this list if they hadn't released anything post-1989, but at the same Bleach wouldn't have received anywhere near the same level of acknowledgement, generally speaking, where it not for the record(s) that came after. so in other words, i think the inclusion of Nirvana isn't so much an immediate nod to their output/ influence in the 90s as a reflection of the fact that the 80s stuff was (understandably) re-approached with a more enlightened scrutiny some time after its release.

x-post

This might be challops for some of you but i think 'about a girl' is one of their best songs, however I agree with the sentiment that if it not were for their 90s output noone would remember it.

I'm more invested in 60's rock than 90's rock so there's that. I wasn't really listening to any music in the 90's so I don't have the nostalgia googles to consider Nirvana a super influential band.

The best thing about Nirvana is that Kurt Cobain had a certain songwriting connection to 60's rock, they were the grunge flag bearers but there was something else in there. At their best they were channeling bands like the beatles, at their worst they were... well a grunge band. A product of their generation. Same thing can be said about the Smashing Pumpkins. Gish was interesting to me and channels some Hendrix here and there but the follow-up albums deviated more and more into the rock miasma of the 90's.

I'm aware this could be an 'idiot' opinion and if they had followed the sound of their debut they wouldn't be as famous and 'groundbreaking' as they were, but they also wouldn't sound as dated if they had followed on those 60's influence, ironically.

what is a "songwriting connection to '60s rock"?

besides catnip for Jann Wenner?

. At their best they were channeling bands like the beatles

Some band, that Oasis.

Top of my mind About a girl iand lithium sound very influenced by the beatles. Sliver, come as you are, all apologies... they sound very 60's pop rock to my ears. There's probably more but cant remember them without the tracklist.
I might be wrong.

My guitar teacher in high school compared "About a Girl" to "Steppin Stone" by the Monkees. It's not super-close but the Monkees song has a weirdly proto-grunge quality in a way.

was your guitar teacher a dirty hippie

Proto-punk too, as both the Sex Pistols and Minor Threat recorded covers of it. xp

was your guitar teacher a dirty hippie

Nah, afaik he still plays in a Pink Floyd tribute band but he was kind of a shredder. He meant it as a put-down of Nirvana (for being dirty hippies).

"On a Plain" always seemed like a super cynical Beatles song.

also, who the hell is Frankie Knuckles?
Get out. Get out now.

according to wiki, the dude had only one top ten hit on the us dance charts during the '80s. not exactly a game changer unless you give two shits about house music.

he was no Tears For Fears, it's true

tough call between GnR and Bruce Springsteen, two artists I never want to listen to

Voted GnR.

yeah so did I, if only because they seem personally more loathsome than Broooooce

not exactly a game changer unless you give two shits about house music

To be fair, I tell everyone who doesn't give two shits about house music to get out.

Joy Division and New Order are the only two acts that don't have at least one song I like here. So, New Order i guess idk.

I havent looked at this list yet but this thread makes it seem afuckingtrocious (also: this,messageboard)

Naw this list is cool it's full of dope early 80s dance music and grown folks r&b and short on British people with asymmetrical haircuts.

all the replacements hate is making me sad.

:'(

'do we have to do a WORST poll? really? sigh.' is the correct answer.

Suspect the reason REM aren't on this list is that their 80s canon contains like 20 different placeable songs, all of which are roughly as good as each other. Mad vote splitting.

they never stood a chance with all those Frankie Knuckles hits getting in the way

I voted for Bowie anyway.

lol at people salty about Frankie Knuckles. really, he should have had three with "The Whistle Song".

^^^^^^

which is apparently from '91, hush my mouth.

still the point is that Frankie Knuckles is better than REM in every way possible

and there's the Jamie Principle stuff

oh he's probably great. I'm just grumpy that someone made fun of me for not knowing who we was

Naw this list is cool it's full of dope early 80s dance music and grown folks r&b and short on British people with asymmetrical haircuts.

― best beloved george benson (The Reverend), Thursday, August 27, 2015 4:43 PM (59 minutes ago)

Right on, I mean I def love Prince and songs like "Automatic" & the kind of stuff that'd make Brad's post-disco canon, it's just that I've been getting way more into the eighties lately and there really was a LOT of amazong music, this thread just made the list seem really really reductive

spoiler: they picked the wrong Prince song as #1

(it should have been "Erotic City")

Again, ^^^^^^

"Purple Rain" might be about the worst or at least most boring choice they could've made for top Prince.

do we actually know to what degree "choice" went into it? Was it just pure tabulation like an ilx poll or was there was some manipulation for aesthetic purposes? i'd believe either

They used a ouja board to ask the ghost of Steve Jobs

having been involved in editing and compiling lists for a publication, it's 90 percent that-the-numbers-man and 10 percent "Let's squeeze 'The Glamorous Life' in."

'Purple Rain' is fairly predictable, but it's good to know they are sentimentalists at heart.
But 'Never Tear Us Apart'? How do you pass up 'Need You Tonight'?!

That's a weird INXS song to pick. It's sort of a boring song and it was the weakest single from Kick at least US chart-wise:

Need you tonight - #3
Devil Inside - #2
New Sensation - #14
Never Tear Us Apart - #21

Need You Tonight would probably have been my pick from a relevance viewpoint. Don't Change would've been my pick from a sentimental one.

still the point is that Frankie Knuckles is better than REM in every way possible

I like both. I'm a monster.

Like I said either here or elsewhere, Purple Rain is just about the least 80s-ish Prince song that Prince recorded in the 80s. If he'd been around in 1970, it wouldn't have sounded terribly different at all. Good song? Sure. Not even my favorite on the album whence it came, but I get why people like it. Just disappointing that it topped the list.

on a list of the disappointments you've experienced in your life, where would Purple Rain topping this Pitchfork list rank?

Just above Screech filming a porn.

Best New Disappointment

that's a weird INXS song to pick. It's sort of a boring song and it was the weakest single from Kick at least US chart-wise:

Need you tonight - #3
Devil Inside - #2
New Sensation - #14
Never Tear Us Apart - #21

your chart positions are wrong. They all hit the top ten.

Like I said either here or elsewhere, Purple Rain is just about the least 80s-ish Prince song that Prince recorded in the 80s. If he'd been around in 1970, it wouldn't have sounded terribly different at all.

I agree with this p much. Feels like there's a significant chunk of Purple Rain's second side that remind me a little of Kansas...

one funny thing about it topping is that, while it matches pitchfork's tendency to put big romantic populist songs at the top of their lists, it goes against the grain of the rest of the list.

in the movie there's this funny subtext where prince, despite making consistently awesome art-funk-rock throughout, doesn't become truly adored until he throws out a power ballad. you can even pretend his storming off to cry on his motorcycle is due to the awareness that it was pandering, rather than a moment of extreme vulnerability. but in general the rest of the top 200 is like "no, awesome art-funk-rock is underrated!" while ignoring big populist emo like "don't stop believin" and "boys of summer" that were in the pitchfork 500.

not a big deal, obv. just a cute irony.

though tbh if i had to cut a prince song from the top 200 it would have been "i would die 4 u" - due to the lack of power ballads otherwise, "die" felt more redundant

also it's the lesser song

Lesser than nothing.

Pollple Rain (search terms prince purple rain impossible)

o__O

I've never rated IWD4U that much.

It might actually be my least favorite song on the album. Which still makes it better than a lot of things, to be fair.

I'm in team IWD4U.

In order of preference:

Beautiful Ones
I Would Die 4 U
Baby I'm A Star
Let's Go Crazy
Computer Blue
Take Me With U
Darling Nikki
When Doves Cry
Purple Rain

― scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:02 PM (4 years ago)

I stand by that.

rem would have soooo much more mystique if they'd split in 97 91

Purple Rain is just about the least 80s-ish Prince song that Prince recorded in the 80s. If he'd been around in 1970, it wouldn't have sounded terribly different at all.

I don't disagree but does the best song of the 80s have to sound '80s-ish'?

I wd make Doves 2nd & a couple other minor changes (swapping Computer Blue with Take Me With U) but I mostly agree w Eric's Purple Rain ranking. IWD4U is totally rad, and I believe it's some dude's favorite song ever

Sonically "Purple Rain" may be one of his least experimental or interesting songs esp when put next to a futuristic masterpiece like "I Would Die 4 U".

purple rain is one of my favorite albums ever, and every song on it is fucking awesome. that i considered it the most redundant of prince's five appearances on pitchfork's 200 (which is pretty electro-heavy and big-power-ballad light) shouldn't be mistaken for me saying it's not great.

Feels like there's a significant chunk of Purple Rain's second side that remind me a little of Kansas

There's a story that he ran the title track by the Journey guys (or at least Jonathan Cain to check that he wasn't ripping them off. (That's not a bad argument for it sounding more '80s' actually!)

yeah i mean a scientist can tell me just how much santana/"layla" dna makes up that solo, but it strikes me as a little further down the arena rock path

purple rain rules, no company man-o

Purple Rain just sounds timeless to me, and there's something to be said for transcending one's era.

I'd rank Purple Rain something like:

Nikki
Doves
Rain
Beautiful Ones
Crazy
Computer Blue
Take Me
Star
IWD4U

Michael Jackson shits on Prince, but he's probably the most overrated artist on this list.

ilx user it's a boy certainly overrates him

It might actually be my least favorite song on the album. Which still makes it better than a lot of things, to be fair.

― best beloved george benson (The Reverend),

My least favorite song is "Baby I'm a Star," but "I Would Die For U" feels like the first Prince-by-numbers single -- and on the same album where he established what "Prince by numbers." means.

Fine, "Purple Rain" can be #1. Just shut up about your horrible PR preferences, all of you.

I am something that you'll never comprehend

I think PR doesnt transcend anything at all, its the most 1984 thing ever (which in itself is no bad thing)

but imo its the one big Prince album of the era that seems most rooted to the time....def unlike SOTT

IWD4U is amazing gtfo

every album ever is rooted to its time.

Goldie's Timeless is not.

Goldie's Dated.

Axl Rose is a hateful muppet.

I hate the Smiths but that's more of a case of I hate Morrissey as a person than anything.

Voted GnR.

yeah so did I, if only because they seem personally more loathsome than Broooooce

Don't you think that distaste for a musician's personality is a pretty poor metric for assessing the worth of his records?* I agree that Axl is a terrible human being, but that doesn't alter my opinion that Appetite for Destruction is a sensationally good hard rock album, perhaps the best of the '80s. (In fact, his horribleness is a big part of what makes it so compelling.)
Similarly, Morrissey's unlovable personality doesn't change the fact that the Smiths released a string of brilliant singles.

* except maybe in the case of Ted Nugent

In my case, it's in addition to the music sucking. It's just sports bar trash. Also Axl can't sing worth a damn, that's what my muppet comment was referring to. Listen to their cover of "Live and Let Die", why would a human being ever want to sound like that?

They aren't even influential. Are there any modern bands that try to sound like GNR and pull it off with any success?

Axl persona is the bread and butter of GNR anyway.

Hence my issues w his personality

Influence has nothing to do with whether a band is any good

was gonna say

GNR was just punkified Aerosmith/Stones, not something that woulda spawned 3,000 imitators. but Appetite is still a classic (I like the Illusions too, despite some of the boring filler).

I couldn't even really tell you what the Smiths sound like, Morrissey has prevented me from ever caring enough to find out.

Morrissey was always "Morrissey," but he didn't really bloom into the monster he became until a few years beyond the end of The Smiths.

Saying this as someone who thinks this kind of music is always overrated: the smiths are really incredibly awesome and every truly repugnant thing morrissey says makes it seem all the more incredible that they were as great as they were.

They're also super funny rev...."girlfriend In a coma" is all time

Has anyone gone back this week and looked at the 1980s albums list they did in 2002? http://pitchfork.com/features/staff-lists/5882-top-100-albums-of-the-1980s/

Gee golly, it looks like the tumblr of someone who loves post-punk and 4 rap albums.

the smiths are really incredibly awesome and every truly repugnant thing morrissey says makes it seem all the more incredible that they were as great as they were
otm

Has anyone gone back this week and looked at the 1980s albums list they did in 2002? http://pitchfork.com/features/staff-lists/5882-top-100-albums-of-the-1980s/

Ha, I had wondered if the old Pitchfork had done an 80s list and what it would have looked like in comparison. Thanks.

i actually prefer those older pitchfork lists where you got the sense they were unapologetically firming their sights on the one particular scene. the basic understanding was that you were essentially getting a post-punk/ indie list or whatever whether you wanted it or not (predictable rap heavyweights notwithstanding). there was more of a sequence & rationale to the results because everything landed comfortably within the one near-sighted realm, making comparisons more relevant & workable. these days they seem to be pitching (no pun intended) the lists as spanning all genres, even though most genres are of course woefully underrepresented or misrepresented for their merits, take yer pick. can't really see any point for this latest 80s list beyond a "here's 200 good songs that you've all heard before" kinda thing. it doesn't even seem to be much of an educational enterprise (else it'd probably have a one-song-per-artist primer kinda feel to it), more like a flexing of knowledge in genre diversity, however arbitrary.

"here's 200 good songs that you've all heard before"

It's apparently not that, though, because people on the internet are mad they don't know a lot of the songs.

idgi would people have really been happier if there were 5 R.E.M. songs instead of one? Because fuck that.

idk, a list that's more honest to the traditional leanings of the site might have included 5 REM songs instead of the 5 Diana Ross songs or the 5 Janet songs or whatever. not really sure why they didn't make this a singles list, but then they obviously wanted to namecheck stuff like Youth of America etc.

The site barely resembles what it was in 2002, though. Or even 2007 for that matter (or whenever it was they did The Pitchfork 500). They cover a bunch of different genres now, both in editorial and news, and have a bunch of new/different/more playful writers who sort of cringe at the old idea of Pitchfork as much as I do. Last week's list wasn't perfect—obviously not, since we've been picking it apart for 7 days—but it hints at a site that's more interesting to follow than it's ever been.

Yeah the list basically reflects the current writers - there's no great magic to it.

that makes perfect sense really (that the list is an indication of taste and nothing more). not quite sure whether that's something that's strictly obvious to the casual outsider however, given the site's history of expediency.

happy to concede that the site covers a range of genres these days, even if i sense something vaguely autocratic at the site's core that overwhelms the liberties with which a number of these genres are explored.

i probably meant to say "dogmatic" instead of "autocratic", but whatever.

Gee golly, it looks like the tumblr of someone who loves post-punk and 4 rap albums.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, 31 August 2015 01:31 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Gee golly, the new list is some horrendous myopic disownal of almost any responsibility to promote sonic experimentation

Not saying the 2002 list is perfect but it has a far broader scope than you claim. You've got your 5 or 6 rap albums; you've also got Coil, Boredoms, This Heat. Oh but who'd miss them, eh?

kate bush is one of the most overrated acts in history

― chaki (kurt schwitterz), Monday, August 24, 2015 1:49 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Kind of agree with you, but I do love Running Up That Hill quite a lot.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, August 24, 2015 1:50 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I seem to always but heads with Johnny's music taste. Kate Bush is god tier. It's amazing that she has been able to garner such popularity when her sound is so different than everyone else's. Originality alone is practically a good enough reason not to call her overrated. Let the anti-johnny-fever-music-taste people have a win every once in a while.

That being said I am American and Kate Bush has virtually zero presence over here. I wish there was an America only equivalent that I could compare her to, but people like Jimmy Buffet have zero originality compared to Kate Bush.

*butt

Kate Butt?

Originality alone is practically a good enough reason not to call her overrated.

No it isn't.

I was exaggerating

rem would have soooo much more mystique if they'd split in 97 91 86

you've also got Coil, Boredoms, This Heat. Oh but who'd miss them, eh?

In the top 200? Yeah, fuck 'em right out of there. Somewhere in the top 1K? Sure.

would anyone recommend me some lists of songs/albums that they deem to be excellent/coherent/illuminating/useful etc., something more interesting than a general consensus effort?

fuck the pixies

fuck the smiths

fuck rem

and completely fujuuuuuuuuuuck guns n roses I mean seriously gtfo with that complete bullshit

― marcos, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What corny ass challoping bs is this

― mods = chickenshit idiots (D-40), Wednesday, August 26, 2015 1:36 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i don't think there's anything challopy here? i mean what the fuck are challops even anyways, do u still take it is as a given that everyone loves the beatles? you said you don't even listen to pixies or rem. smiths or GnR, it is not hard to imagine why someone would hate either of their vocalists

challops is boardspeak for "challenging opinions"

when people say "fuck guns n roses" they mean "fuck axl rose"

I bet there's someone somewhere who just really hates Izzy Stradlin, because there are just so many people on earth.

did they ever find that guy

challops is boardspeak for "challenging opinions"

― polyphonic, Monday, August 31, 2015 2:06 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yea i'm aware of that but i was just sayin on this board w/ many opinions i don't even really know what is challopsy tbh. not what does "challops" mean

it's like adding an invisible "there i said it, aren't i a stinker" to the end of a statement

when people say "fuck guns n roses" what they are saying is "i'm pissed off cuz my dad gets more pussy than i do"

It's apparently not that, though, because people on the internet are mad they don't know a lot of the songs.

idgi would people have really been happier if there were 5 R.E.M. songs instead of one? Because fuck that.

The site barely resembles what it was in 2002, though. Or even 2007 for that matter (or whenever it was they did The Pitchfork 500). They cover a bunch of different genres now, both in editorial and news, and have a bunch of new/different/more playful writers who sort of cringe at the old idea of Pitchfork as much as I do. Last week's list wasn't perfect—obviously not, since we've been picking it apart for 7 days—but it hints at a site that's more interesting to follow than it's ever been.

Second post otm, I think. This is the first full decade list Pitchfork has done in 5 years, and the site's interests/taste really have shifted since 2010. I feel like that's part of why there's been more shock around this list, with its increased focus on electronic music, dance music, and R&B. I think people used to the old Pitchfork expected to see multiple tracks from R.E.M., Talking Heads, Husker Du, Sonic Youth etc., plus obvious rap choices and a smattering of accessible experimental music.

marcos otm

(except the Smiths are awesome and fun and a strange miracle)

xxxp

when people say "fuck guns n roses" what they are saying is "i'm pissed off cuz my dad gets more pussy than i do"

this is one of your stranger non-sequiturs

the majority of g'n'r songs on the radio these days are covers

When I looked back, I was shocked that they've gone 5 years without one of these big clickbait best-of decade lists. I guess they had the People's List a few years back, but that just reinforced the idea that Pitchfork is Neutral Milk Hotel/Built to Spill/Arcade Fire central.

You can't blame pitchfork for being like that.
Just blame all their writers.
And maybe also blame pitchfork too. Those fuckers

jfc, outis

And that goes for all you punks in the press
That want to start shit by printin' lies instead of the things we said
That means you
Andy Secher at Hit Parader
Circus Magazine
Mick Wall at Kerrang
Bob Guccione Jr. at Spin,
What? You pissed off cuz your dad gets more pussy than you?
Fuck you
Suck my fuckin' dick

xp they did "best of the decade... so far!!" like a year ago

omg so sorry I didn't have the lyrics to the classic "Get in the Ring" memorized I hereby humbly return my Gen X membership badge

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

xp, yeah, that's true, but those half-decade lists are basically, "Here's a recap of the top 20 from our last 5 yearly lists, plus a few things that we reconsidered or slipped through the cracks." It doesn't feel like canon-building on the same level.

Until 5 years ago, they were doing a big staff best-of-the decade list every year or two.

And yeah, they did the People's List a few years back, but I don't know if overhyped readers' poll is in the same category as the other ones.

If anything, the People's List just put a bright light on the readers being dumber than the writers.

Not saying the 2002 list is perfect but it has a far broader scope than you claim. You've got your 5 or 6 rap albums; you've also got Coil, Boredoms, This Heat. Oh but who'd miss them, eh?

― Yul Brynner playing table tennis with a deviled kidney (imago), Monday, August 31, 2015 12:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Astonished that Coil, Boredoms and This Heat don't appear on a list of the Top 200 songs of the 1980s. Merzbow also robbed.

JF otm

Nahhh

http://pitchfork.com/peopleslist/

Yahhh

Where's the chart breaking the list down by male/female-driven acts?

Ok the peoples list was p terrible (though my niggest grudge against it is how they took down the individual ballots)

^^^^ There were a lot of ballots I was shamelessly pillaging for a while there and now I can't ;_;

Anyways, the list is pretty alright; bummed that there're no Fall songs, personally, but their fashionableness has kinda dipped in the past few years. I do like the generic spread of the list, but the chlices get kinda pat towards the top, which always seems to happen. As someone who relishes futuristic robofunk alongside no wave/mutant disco & the post-hardcore underground, I like this list a lot but feel like AG's anti-RS albums list from a few years ago is probably a crucial counterpoint. But instead of griping about shortcomings, I might just scratch that itch by starting my own thread blog about the best songs of the 80s...

Also that is def supposed to be "biggest"! Smdh :-/

idk GnR was always like obnoxious white jock music where i grew up, very terrible

The site barely resembles what it was in 2002, though. Or even 2007 for that matter (or whenever it was they did The Pitchfork 500). They cover a bunch of different genres now, both in editorial and news, and have a bunch of new/different/more playful writers who sort of cringe at the old idea of Pitchfork as much as I do. Last week's list wasn't perfect—obviously not, since we've been picking it apart for 7 days—but it hints at a site that's more interesting to follow than it's ever been.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, August 31, 2015 4:34 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea otm. the site is really better than it's ever been imo. still some work to do but it does seem like there are way more women and PoC writers there than ever. the pitch has some editing issues but it is one of the more fun areas of the site and is a good addition imo. features tend to be high quality. tbh i actually think the daily reviews are the worst part of the site.

Yeah, I miss the individual ballots on the People's List, too. I wish I'd kept a copy of mine.

Well they had Nitsuh bavk then right? How many PoC writers do they have now?

They're ridiculous for having gotten rid of those ballots.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Sade wins

rock dudes proudly admitting they don't like gnr... just keep it to yourselves, it's really not a good look. it's like proudly declaring you're above using cocaine or something. just move on.

how did janet jackson and gnr get more votes than nwa. wake up sheeple

Fuck cocaine

Xp

Defending gnr is nagl

Is there a non-rockist way to defend them? Seems like every virtue that could be ascribed to them requires buying into the legitimacy of cliches/validation of middle american white asshole pov/tired Rolling Stone ideas of what is "cool" (leather, guitar solos, shitty drugs, venality)

Also i just dont think their hooks are great enough to obfuscate general loathsomeness and stupidity

I despised hair metal, so GnR was a faint breeze of not-stale air. They didn't use quite as much mousse, not all of their guitars had pointy headstocks (and none had locking tremolos), and the snare wasn't as gated as much as on Poison records.

That not-stale air was actually just even staler air, is the thing. The whiff of aerosmith and black oak arkansas' jockstraps.

Except without the wit of the former or redneck mysticism of the latter

appetite is a great record idk

Haven't heard much BOA, but I'll take GnR over post-comeback Aerosmith in a heartbeat -- Adler swung harder than Kramer, and Slash's solos (on Appetite only) weren't the "oh shit, this solo has to be four minutes long...better sleepwalk through some blues scales" trudges that were Joe Perry's stock-in-trade.

it's still a pretty compelling composite of glam rock and aerosmith

lol xpost

Yeah i wasnt referring to post-comeback aerosmith (altho their is def some overlap w gnr in the bombastic ballad dept)

i just decided awhile back w/r/t GnR that it's not them, it's me

Only 3 goose eggs!!!

Also burn on U2 that everyone is debating the runner-up

it's still a pretty compelling composite of glam rock and aerosmith
yes, there's something of the weimar cabaret chanteuse to gnr/axl

It's probably hard at this remove to appreciate what G'n'R felt like in 1987. I encountered them via "Welcome to the Jungle" on Headbangers Ball, and they seemed dangerous in a way that I wasn't used to. I was a punk-loving '80s kid with a soft spot for hair metal, and those guys were the first rock/metal band who had obviously internalized the Sex Pistols. (They are an important link in the chain to Nirvana, along with Jane's Addiction, who seemed like punks who loved Zeppelin.) Their sex-drugs-rock'n'roll seemed dirty and ugly, not a party pose like Motley Crue or Poison. They also had a great rhythm section on that first record, they could boogie -- maybe the last real Rock n Roll band, even if their connection to Chuck Berry ran through Aerosmith. I still love that record, and nothing else any of them ever did comes close to it.

why do people feel whitney houston is overrated? or did those voters just think she was ~undeserving~ or w/e

i assume it's the "i wanna dance with somebody" hate on this board

we should all stop our complaining and focus on the tracks (nay, multiple tracks!) by bands that weren't included.

http://orig14.deviantart.net/7f0e/f/2012/014/2/6/chipmunk_punk_by_thinkbolt-d4mccs9.jpg

Gnr were great. Nwa were great. Diana Ross is greeat

It's probably hard at this remove to appreciate what G'n'R felt like in 1987. I encountered them via "Welcome to the Jungle" on Headbangers Ball, and they seemed dangerous in a way that I wasn't used to.

Totally OTM. My exact experience too. They had a genuine whiff of brimstone about them, although I get that this assertion seems risible nowadays, if all you've known is Fat Axl.

Appetite is one of my very favourite guitar albums.

Appetite is great. Even the non singles are jams. The use your illusion albums coupled with Adrenalize probably killed hair metal more than nevermind did though, they were so dull. you'd never know today how non-clownish axl and slash to were for a minute in '87, at least to teen kids like myself.

nah what killed hair metal was john waite and neal schon getting on the gravy train

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qol7z-ku8A

also the stuffing of every act with guitars into the 'hair metal' box b/w the glutting of the market with way inferior product (what's up all those MCA cassettes i bought because of one video aired at 2:45 am on HEADBANGERS' BALL)

I wanna echo what tipsy wrote: GNR could boogie (like Aerosmith in their prime).

true. even the UYI albums had some boogie moments! i still love 'locomotive' and 'bad apples'

rock dudes proudly admitting they don't like gnr... just keep it to yourselves, it's really not a good look. it's like proudly declaring you're above using cocaine or something. just move on.

― brimstead, Tuesday, September 1, 2015 8:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not really a "rock dude." i don't even really care about led zeppelin ffs. to me gnr have just been, like, music for white assholes. not that you are an asshole. or other people on this board.

anyways outic very much otm here

also those kinds of shrieking male rock vocalists are really not my thing

Guys u dont need to talk down to me like i cant remember 1987. The whiff of "danger" about the band was just classic rock bad boy schtick.

dangerous in the most conservative way possible

it's funny to have the "you had to be there" argument in a thread about them being overrated by pitchfork

i enjoy appetite for destruction on the whole but gnr are definitely on the "nobody owes them anything" list

(in terms of owing them attention or acclaim, i mean. not that they weren't "influential")

I can sincerely recommend Guns n Roses cover of "I Don't Care About You"

And yet still no-one will defend Bono and the lads.

sorta fascinating to see what acts ILM hivemind *doesn't* think Pitchfork overrates:

Beastie Boys 3
Prince 3
De La Soul 3
Talking Heads 3
Public Enemy 2
Madonna 2
Michael Jackson 2
Sade 0
Grandmaster Flash 0
Eric B & Rakim 0

but even there THREE people looked at the whole list and said "yes, de la soul, you are the most overrated".

a notable number considering the "hivemind" bile for gnr led to 16 votes, the same number "must we share our bile?" got

two people still have it in for public enemy. and while sade didn't get a vote, i dissed her mid-thread! so really you have to be a commercially underappreciated Best Hip-Hop DJ Ever and a commercially underappreciated Best Hip-Hop MC Ever to get on this thread and not have someone wish you hadn't been popular enough to qualify

not that they weren't "influential"

were they? they were undeniably a big deal, but I'm at a loss for who they influenced

It's funny that there are ilxors who still treat poptimism like it was some kind of passing fad that leads to overrating women of color who make disco imo

Funny-*raises eyebrow* not funny-haha

not sure what your point is? seeing Madonna/MJ/Sade at the bottom of this list made me feel pretty good about ILM's poptimist bonafides

... unless you're eyebrow-raising at the number of Whitney Houston votes? (which could just be from non-fans tired of hearing her name in the news)

they were undeniably a big deal, but I'm at a loss for who they influenced

the manic street preachers

re: gnr "influence" - in the most on-the-nose sense, a lot of admittedly forgotten bands launched between 1988-1992, buckcherry, those kinds of bands. but i feel like you're asking for names of imitators rather than people who were influenced. as if the merits of led zep are defined by david coverdale and kingdom come.

oh yeah, and the manics!

not sure what your point is? seeing Madonna/MJ/Sade at the bottom of this list made me feel pretty good about ILM's poptimist bonafides

just that i think it's more noteworthy that only two acts out of the 30 made it out of this thread unscathed then that three people hate madonna while sixteen people hate gnr

sorry, only two people hate madonna. also 11 people hate whitney, 7 diana ross so i dunno if we can take from this thread that ILX loves pop, hates rock

That this substantial minority felt Diana Ross was most deserving (for "upside down" and "I'm coming out" which are certified classics) suggests they have a similar mentality about who is the worst of the three but it's not like they get more than one vote to divvy up. With Sade I'm guessing ppl are just either huge fans or it's just a blind spot whereas DR is more mainstream--heard more often, sampled by famous rappers, etc

It's esp weird bc my impression is that Diana Ross is one of the most significant influences on Michael Jackson and his presence as a stage performer

+ Nile Rodgers auteur bona fides

And not to bring this up again but Anita baker didn't even make the list so it's not like this was a massive victory for poptimist forces imo

Your (p)optometrist should be able to help you out with that weirdly selective tunnel vision, there, deej.

Oh yeah forgot Whitney who was an even bigger target

xps interesting... so are you saying that the gesture of tearing down "overrated" popular music acts is frequently bound up with rockist assumptions/preconceptions from the word go? there may be something to that

re: gnr "influence" - in the most on-the-nose sense, a lot of admittedly forgotten bands launched between 1988-1992, buckcherry, those kinds of bands.

fair enough I just didn't think there were actually that many of these bands

It really is weird that people only voted for Whitney and Diana, huh. *raises eyebrow*

the question is overrated, not hated. you can like a band and still think the hype is unjustified.
I voted Talking Heads, a band where I'm quite happy with a single disc compilation of their work.

ya I am much more receptive to arguments about New Order or Talking Heads being overrated (even though I love both bands, and would put the Heads in my top-5 all-time) because I have actually *seen* that overrating in practice. not sure which critics/DJs are out there pissing off the italo snobs w/ tireless Diana Ross partisanship, but I would love to meet them!!

the question is overrated, not hated. you can like a band and still think the hype is unjustified.
yeah sorry about that - i actually almost corrected myself. i didn't ask who you "hated" but who least deserved pfork's acclaim.

that said, i still think the most interesting thing about the poll was the reveal of how broad the spread was. almost every act had at least two people who thought they weren't all that.

they were undeniably a big deal, but I'm at a loss for who they influenced

the manic street preachers

Talking of overrated garbage...

I didn't vote (lol I didn't even read the list) and while I don't ever need to hear/read about MJ or Madonna again for the rest of my life, I get how huge they are and their impact is undeniable so their inclusion isn't really unreasonable, whereas GnR being included really is some "you had to be there"/"I was 13 when this album came out" sorta bullshit, there's just no defending them.

xxp

if you can't tell the aural difference between "Paradise City" and "Welcome to the Jungle" and "Talk Dirty to Me" and "House of Pain," then Idk

haha i'm in my mid-30s and i was like 8 when this album came out, I realllllllly don't think pitchfork is staffed overwhelmingly by 40 year olds

My argument about New Order and Talking Heads being overrated boils down to me being really bored every time I've tried to listen to them. So they're not really overrated at all - I'm just wired differently.

Although maybe some of your wirings are overrated ;)

received wisdom then? idk

xp

if you can't tell the aural difference between "Paradise City" and "Welcome to the Jungle" and "Talk Dirty to Me" and "House of Pain," then Idk

the main differences are a rhythm section taht could swing and Axl's imitation of Big Jim Dandy, but that's not enough to make it great imo

if anything gnr benefits from the lack of obvious imitators in the limelight - as early as 98 (when axl got a spin cover) they were being enjoyed the way Mad Men is enjoyed by some - this vicarious look into an unenlightened past

yeah that makes sense

yknow while kurt may not have play "my michelle" he wasn't the first temperamental eccentric shrieker signed to geffen to conquer rock via mtv. gnr not only paved the way for "OOOHH GIRL I'M SO MAD AND COMPLICATED, JUST A MESS OVER SUPER-TIGHT DRUMMING/ DRUUUGS" but got bloated so quickly they gave the new breed something to shove out of the way.

gnr was also ahead of the curve in getting someone who knew the fastbacks on a major

*no one* said Sade??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJ4UObLyks

i'm just saying fellow gnr non-fans, the ship sailed already, why not focus on trying to figure how/when motley crue snuck into the rock god canon

they didn't

"The Dirt" raised their profile to some degree but no one cites their music as canonical

hair metal canon sure

i don't necessarily mean critically, but doesn't it seem like they've sidled up into this status level that they really don't belong to? this probably sounds like total hair splitting.

idk name names/cite sources

eh i'm just pulling stuff out of my ass. do you watch tv?

I don't really watch stuff they might show up on - their popularity seems p restricted to a subset of my generation. I never hear their stuff on the radio, none of my younger coworkers would know who they even are unless it's because of reality tv/the sex tape or a passing reference in Rock of Ages or something.

Which is not the case when it comes to Zeppelin, Sabbath, the Stones etc.

or GnR for that matter

yeah motley and poison are definitely better remembered than richard marx as far as late '80s hitmakers go but i don't see jann s wenner rolling out the hall of fame red carpet for either any time soon

Richard Marx, Twitter legend

Not the best metric but their most popular song on spotify is 'kickstart my heart' with 21M plays. For comparison GnR version of 'knockin on heavens door' has 38M. Sweet child o mine has 86M.

Not hair metal but kind of influenced it, Cheap Trick's most famous song only has 8M. People are idiots.

I'm sure "The Flame" has more than eight million.

And yet still no-one will defend Bono and the lads.

Making a case for G'n'R has proven quite sufficiently unrewarding, thanks. I'm done with the pro bono work for this week. (See what I did there?)
I think U2 made some superlative rock records over the course of a decade or so, but there's no point trying to establish a reasoned debate on that. Between the singer's attempts to make the world a better place and the whole iTunes debacle, all people want to do nowadays is dump on them from a height. So it goes.