The Doors are a PROGRESSIVE BAND, one of the best ones and they are American

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I made a video about this subject. Americans have never admitted that we ever had a prog band. We did and we still do. We still have people who are extremely creative out there in this country and beyond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP9LUAhdnhA O.k press this link...sorry about this...this video is about The Doors..and about progressive music in the United States. People under-rate our country and we give very little attention to progressive artists or admit to the world that we have is prog or we ignore progressive musicians...why is this? Why can't the world admit that we have a very famous prog band from our country. I have a very good video on this subject.

I would flag your post, but I'll have to wait until I stop laughing first.

Why would you flag my post? The Doors are a prog band. They mix flamenco, jazz, medieval, classical, blues into their music...because they don't sound English doesn't mean that they don't play prog. I studied composition with a man who had a record out on Progressive records. He influenced me. I think that I know what prog is..

Why would you flag my post?

Because this is your first post and you're spamming with a video you made? And it's about The Doors? Those both seems like fine reasons to me.

Why can't I edit the first post was a mistake. I apologize. I really mean well. I love the Doors and I think that they are very creative in their own way. I love their most creative tracks.

http://komensandiego.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/progress_line.jpeg

Yes, rather than ....doing it caveman style.

Jim Morrison: Ungentle Giant

The video is more about you than the Doors. VdGG did some great stuff, though.

They have some weird videos of a man who really looks like Jim Morrison in Upstate New York. Ray the keyboardist of the Doors said when he was alive that he thought that Jim could be alive because no one saw the body. These videos of Jim in Schenectady New York look like him but what is really strange is the sound of his voice is exactly like Jim and Jim had a very distinctive voice. I hope he is alive. The mystery is cool though..This man named Broken Star has all these videos of Jim singing, resighting poetry etc...The author of the Shining..Steven King said that he picked Jim Morrison up when he was hitching AFTER he faked his death. This was in Texas. I checked public records. There is a James Douglas Morrison in Schenectady New York and he also lived in Texas.

The video is about everyone in prog..there are many great prog artist...I am only ONE person in a big world...I like to be inclusive of many people I feel upset that some people from Europe think that America has never produced a good band. Someone from the music world in England writes me for two years, trashing the USA, where I live saying that we never had any talented bands in this country. He has a band there. Generally, a lot people look down on American composers etc...people think of us as dumb. That is one reason I made the video.

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOaPvykmlIU

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2714370/images/o-POOP-EMOJI-ICE-CREAM-facebook.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVKdghxxwBw

the doors are a really bad band. jim morrison was a dumb jock who became a hippy dilettante. all the circus organ is garbage.

I think the doors were better the less they indulged their prog tendencies.

oddesses i got yr back man. don't let these blood, sweat, & tears fans run you off. welcome to ilm, take a look around see which way the wind blow. rip ray. long live jim.

The Doors were great. As has been discussed in about 72 other threads.

Music is not about indulging..it is about creating what sounds pleasing to the ear...when people purposely try too hard to dazzle an audience with virtuoso skills it is not as effective as people who just play what they think sounds creative, pleasing and high level...Prog is not about indulging...they weren't trying to be anything...just playing good music...which is more effective to me than trying to be high level of the sake of it...if you know what I mean...my song Fairy Killer is NOT complex...guitar and organs...and experimental music at the end...if you want to hear some new music.. it is fresh...Prog doesn't have to all over the place in terms of virtuosity...but it can be if it is good like Light My Fire which is more complex...I LOVE LIGHT MY FIRE..! The instrumentation is excellent...vocals beautiful..I think that Fairy Killer is good but not up to their level on that song..but sounds unique...I working hard to get my music up to a higher level...I am not satisfied yet...working a lot on new material..The Doors influence me a lot right now...looking for a guitarist like Robby..know any??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VQnrMJUFp8

to be fair, the only thing holding the doors back from being a truly great band is that they weren't the famous flames and jim morrison wasn't james brown.

best new poster

the doors are the first prog band and the first punk band

have to say sincerely that most new posters don't provide as much food for thought as 'the doors were prog'.

There are other people who want to establish bands like The Doors and Van Der Graaf, but people prefer to live in the past and not to listen to or support NEW people...which is a shame...

like now i'm wondering what a prog stooges would sound like

like now i'm wondering what a prog stooges would sound like

like now i'm wondering what a prog stooges would sound like

JB could've done a killer "L.A. Woman."

yeah i can totally imagine it. i can even imagine a famous flames arrangement vs jb's arrangement.

like now i'm wondering what a prog stooges would sound like
now i wanna be your unicorn

mountains come out of the sky / cuz i'm loose!

Not interested in new fresh material??? Fairy Killer anyone?

you are gonna get banned if you keep this up fyi

let's keep this about the doors please

My whip has a STRICTLY DOORS bumper sticker.

shakey was that addressed to me lol?

Prog stooges possibly a bit like Ash Ra Temple? I'm certainly hearing a version of the stun guitar as played by somebody with technique on some tracks from the 2nd lp.

Doors did certainly seem to be about adding progressive elements as they saw them to rock.Though I think they were thinking more in terms of jazz but there are definite classical lifts in a few places. Albinoni's Adagio for Spanish Caravan, bits of the Soft parade and whatever Ray manzarek was coming up with half the time, though it was definitely channelled through jazz and r'n'b as it went through his fingers,> possibly something similar with kreiger?

BUt I think the openness of psychedelia is better than the more processedness of prog. Innit?

kind of interested in the idea that morrison is alive and well in schenectady... does he work for GE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-XarSH7sWs

Doors never prog.

They certainly had the pretentiousness of prog

https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/51718353eab8ea836500000e-756-567/broken-smashed-laptop-computer.png

A Squirrel ATE my computer keyboard once. I lived in a house where squirrels were in the attic. They made their way downstairs and ATE my keyboard! My landlady paid for a new one. What happened to your keyboard? Didn't have money for a decent lunch? I am started a band called the " Windows." I can't get the windows opened. They're stuck. That is how I feel. I want to form a group and get help for all my musical ideas..no one feels music that much anymore...they live it the past...

This is already less fun than Raccoon Tanuki.

ctrl-f STYX not found smh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVQFxDCKNo This is the post hippy era...I am still drawing pictures of Buddah with hippy beads? It is all very retro stuff. My other picture in the this video that I drew, looks like a transvestism my friend told me..broad shoulders and women's clothing...do you like ORGANS and retro-vision types of music? I do...We need some headbands, beads,longish hair, minus the heavy drug use...you may argue with that...

I am started a band called the " Windows." I can't get the windows opened. They're stuck.

I can't get the fuckin' Doors open either, or else I'd push you out of 'em.

Suggest bar The Doors.

I have a new band called the "Windows." They are so stuck that it is a big problem. I have no guitar player...I play guitar well enough but not well enough...and write really well, but no one is into retro-vision any longer...I am fogging up my windows right now...and I can't breath..no air indoors...that is how I feel.

alright, whose meta-troll project is this *casts glance in ILAFL's general direction*

tbf it has been worth multiple lols

Not quite EVIL GUIDE DOG but good work nonetheless.

the "Windows"

not to be confused with the "Windows" '97

Getting back to "prog Stooges" - Guru Guru?

Prog Velvets = The Verlaines

blew off the stage

Only 4 matches.

Jul 31, 2008 - I read an excerpt of that article in Stephen Davis' book on Jim Morrison. Apparently Zeppelin came on and blew The Doors off the stage. July 31 ...

Aug 9, 2006 - 8 posts - ‎8 authors
They were a bombastic explosive no-frills live band that certainly blew The Doors off the stage as well as every other band in the late-60s and ...

Mar 6, 2006 - We blew The Doors off the stage in some of the reviews, they also said we were the best band on the show. We put out energy. We're the same ...

They were only meant to blow the bloody Doors off.

the Bloody Doors, weren't they British?

marisa is it you?!

xpost:

Yeah, they toured with The "Windows" 98

i think matt sorum drummed some for windows millenium edition

oddesssess i listened to l.a. woman on the way home thx to you, sounded GREAT

god doors haters are such FoS wastoids. it's either
1) jim morrison is dumb (wow interesting)
2) i hate weed and blacklight posters (lol high school)
3) their music is fussy/corny/lightweight (they're not les rallizes.. do you like the monkeys?)

the doors may have been the first american prog band but they are not the best american prog band

USA IS A MONSTER forever

<3ed the doors in high school; still think they're great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_g84ubkwUg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsZJBJ63uI4

Velvet Underground as prog? Modern classical/avant garde influence put to play on basic r'n'b structure by way of jazz like improvisation?

Then you've got yer Vanilla Fudge innit? Seemed to be quite influential on protoprog at least. &got right up themselves with concept lps.

Young Rascals wound up quite proggy too.

&I heard the Seeds had a 200 year old piano teacher on keyboards.

Suggest bar The Doors.

― ... (Eazy)

I laughed

The best American prog band is Kansas.

the MARS VOLTA isn't bad, either, or BATTLES, TORTOISE, GASTR DEL SOL, TOOL, STEELY DAN, THINKING PLAGUE, ECHOLYN, STARCASTLE, DON CABALLERO, PHISH, SPOCK'S BEARD, ASTRA, BIRDS & BUILDINGS, and TRANS AM

So Steely Dan are prog rock now?

Looks like LJ has some competition..

i saw happy the man when i was in college. they ruled.

the MARS VOLTA isn't bad, either, or BATTLES, TORTOISE, GASTR DEL SOL, TOOL, STEELY DAN, THINKING PLAGUE, ECHOLYN, STARCASTLE, DON CABALLERO, PHISH, SPOCK'S BEARD, ASTRA, BIRDS & BUILDINGS, and TRANS AM

Most of these bands are very, very bad.

free your mind

My brother is a 7/18-time prog O.G. and he would say that Frank Zappa is quintessential American prog.

I would say that and almost did earlier. And Todd/Utopia too.

CAPTAIN BEEFHEART is prog too and so are the DECEMBERISTS. there's a lot of good american prog out there despite uptight rock critic dogma

I guess Zappa, Dylan (at least lyrically) and Vanilla Fudge had some of the greatest influence on the development of the genre. Alongside some of the electric jazz of the late 60s and various bits of Avant Garde?modern classical stuff from the States.
With Beefheart, Todd and a number of hippy era things coming a little behind that possibly.

Jim was CIA, as were all the other Laurel Canyon children of military-industrial complex, everyone knows this by now! ;)

#STRANGEDAYSMONO
#JIM
#DOORSRULE

also as far as the doors not being influential to prog - who was doing heavy classical music organ workouts a la the long version of "light my fire"? you think rick wakeman didn't pay attn to that?

Johnny Ramone said in a late interview the only good American band of the 60s was the Doors
Iggy Pop was huge doors fan.

The two men most responsible for American punk love the Doors.

i.e. as I said up thread the Doors are punk and prog.

Jim is all

ride the snake

you're all.....................SLAVES

*ghost dance*

#JimInSchenectady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o68a87bOr2A

I feel like I'm in a timewarp and back in the ILM of 10 years ago when EVERYTHING was being described as prog.

sonic boom exhumed jimbo not all that long ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0r0kVY8wN4

Pretty sure the doors are British iirc

only if ian astbury counts

he does

still trying to figure out why people think it's impressive to make a point of disliking prog. keith levene was steve howe's roadie

The Doors are punk becuz they covered X before it was cool

The Doors are prog becuz they covered Soft Parade before it was cool

the doors are balearic because of "touch me" babe. HELIUM is good american prog, like the JICKS, SUFJAN STEVENS, MARNIE STERN, HIS NAME IS ALIVE, TELEVISION, and EXPLOSIONS IN THE SKY

When can Americans admit that we prog?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xillqqt0Y0

into this world we're thrown

RIP odesses

I'm with Andy Partridge on this one, The Doors were no fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOiACbZIhec

(xp) Hold on there, aren't you a Stranglers fan?

the Stranglers are hilarious

So are the Doors!

i forgot, i guess jim's voice can really turn people off. that's legit.

I'm with Andy Partridge on this one, The Doors were no fun.

― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Friday, August 28, 2015 12:36 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Andy Patridge is definitely a world-class expert on being no fun

So are the Doors!

not intentionally (at least not that I can tell - Jim's stage banter could be amusing)

the doors are ridulous and ridiculously awesome it doesn't matter what they meant

lots of ppl in this thread aren't very good at being fans of rock music step your game up

red are the arms of luxuriant chairs

Guy who wrote "Dear God" accuses leather trouser'd beer swigging ham of not being fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig-ZoUQKst4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEk2zJ3jpuM

If we need more Doors fans, Julian Cope said they were his favourite band and Michael Gira likes em too.

Guy who wrote "Dear God"

Most important member of The Doorks.

"Fairy Killer" is tremendous in my opinion.

I guess Mahavishnu Orchestra, Battles, Todd Rundgren, Utopia, Zappa, and Cairo are my favourites American ones so far. Throw in some metal like Cynic and Death.

The Mahavishnu Orchestra were only 40% American.

Never thought of it before, but prog-ish bands helped keep classic-rock radio a lasting thing: Rush, Moody Blues, maybe Doors, breaking up the major keys and bar blues.

BOSTON, CHICAGO, KANSAS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCACYgvMgHQ&list=PLoRNXsrOuZ-VVB4IGR2RxJi33O1U3Mgwu

RIP odesses

― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 17:21 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, I see!

haha did not mean to imply that oddesses was a sock of mine (although I can see how our names might lend that impression), just that he appears to have left and not come back

the answer you seek lies in the admin log

If the Doors were a band today they'd be called DOOOOOOOORS and their logo would be a pizza. Prog.

Yeah, I actually don't mind The Doors, but I have to be in the correct mood to listen to them, if I'm not, then they do have a tendency to grate on me a bit... and yes, they were quite a huge influence on The Stranglers - Hugh Cornwell and Jean-Jacques Burnel in particular were huge fans, although interestingly the keyboard player much less so, he was more into British prog bands like Camel. The story goes is that when The Stranglers' keyboardist joined the band (he was the last person to join the "classic" line-up), he was coming up with all these Doors-like licks and Cornwell and Burnel were like "this guy is just like Ray Manzarek!" and the keyboardist, Dave Greenfield, asked "who is Ray Manzarek?" - Cornwell and Burnel liked this and were like "okay, it's by accident - even better!" ... Having said that, the approach they took on their cover of 'Walk On By' is definitely Doors-like, with the keyboard and guitar solos and the way it vamps on a couple of chords in the middle for a while quite like how 'Light My Fire' does.

It's undoubtedly going to sound sacrilegious to some, but if I had to choose between listening to a Stranglers record or a Doors record any time of day, any day of the week, I would definitely choose to listen to a Stranglers record, without a doubt.

The Andy Partridge quote about The Doors being "no fun" comes from an interview he did when he was trying to explain the difference between British psychedelia and American psychedelia, about how British psychedelia came across as being far more lighthearted (think stuff like the second side of Ogden's Nut Gone Flake, or Sgt. Pepper's), whereas the Americans approached psychedelia from a more serious angle. The American stuff was far more tense, whereas the British stuff was more "dropped some acid in the park and laughed as we ate a splendid cream bun" etc.

haha did not mean to imply that oddesses was a sock of mine (although I can see how our names might lend that impression), just that he appears to have left and not come back

― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:02 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the answer you seek lies in the admin log

― slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:03 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nah, don't worry, Οὖτις, I never thought that for a second... it was more that I saw your post, checked the admin log, and was like "ah, right!"

Partridge generally otm there imo

ah now it is my turn to see

xp

Billy Cobham was born in Panama so technically Mahavishnu where 20% American.
\pedantry

Panama is not and never has been part of America
\uberpedant

I know. The violin dude was the only american, hence 20%

haha ah I get it my bad

& he was in a San Francisco band with proggish tendencies too innit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9Wh1iXIxA

Thanks for the Yezda Urfa clip, that sounds amazing.

glad you like it. they're a hidden gem -- some of the most complex 'rock' music i've ever heard

craziest song by yezda urfa is this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKK8kdDVMag

but it also reveals problems with the notion of american "prog" as a genre. there's very little that can be called "prog" during the peak years of the british movement from '69-'74. what shows up is later, mid-late '70s, and is either horribly obscure (yezda urfa, graced lightning, random) or, you know, kansas. kansas are actually one of the more interesting examples here, as the "kansas ii" lineup, aka proto-kaw, was operating during the prime uk prog period, and was doing extremely far-out vdgg-influenced material like "totus nemesis", containing a long section best described as noise (it's on cuneiform, so i can't link you to something to listen to).

now, in the late '70s, you had stuff in the dc area like "happy the man" (not actually named after genesis), "the muffins", which were more avant-garde and slightly more popular than graced lightning or tommy marolda's private press prog lp (which is so obscure that i still haven't heard it, although it's doing the cd-r circuit), and it's this sort of music that feeds directly into the us avant-prog scene which has existed continuously since then, but as far as what is known as "symphonic" during prog's prime years, there's just not much american stuff to speak of. late '70s dc-area prog does have a precedent in the earlier baltimore group "oho":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEWQYmanG3M

but again, we're dealing with a band which was deeply obscure and which nobody heard at the time, and again we're clearly dealing with something, like yezda urfa, which is derivative of first-wave UK prog.

as for the doors, if they're prog than jim morrison is america's greg lake.

by the way, i forgot to mention one of my favorite us prog bands, jasper wrath. the stuff they did after their first album (some of which came out on tax scam labels under pseudonyms like "zoldar & clark") is better than their first album material, which is very much in the "proto-prog" vein, but they're still near the top of the heap as far as us prog goes.

there's also the first couple JOURNEY albums, and more obscure, CATHEDRAL, MITHRANDIR, and SHADOWFAX

I think elements of The Doors was 'progressive' in a 1967-69 sense before prog was really a more defined genre of rock. I'd say this even goes more for Love and Spirit. Love definitely went into using some Sgt. Pepper orchestral arrangements. Spirit had a legit jazz background and their albums have all sorts of vaguely spaghetti soundtrack style pieces. All three bands (The Doors, Spirit & Love) being from the same rock scene that birthed the Mothers of Invention. There was that few year period where bands often had very wide repertoires. They might do some heavy blues, maybe a couple of acoustic numbers. In the UK, I'd say similar groups would be Jethro Tull and Colosseum both of which had the heavy blues numbers but then had other tracks that would venture into acoustic folk and soundtrack jazz.

Oh yeah, I kinda think a 'prog' Stooges is Black Sabbath.

ban me from this site but i swear "GOOD VIBRATIONS" is a total proto-prog jam

You got to figure the Moody's were way into the Beach Boys.

You can stream a track from that Proto-Kaw album on Cuneiform's Bandcamp page:

http://cuneiformrecords.bandcamp.com/album/early-recordings-from-kansas-1971-1973

the GRATEFUL DEAD are (at least sometimes) an american progressive band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRct9pNQYM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN6mjNMNytY

so is deicide

and SYMPHONY X

The Doors, one of the better LA 60s bands with a keyboard player. Better than The Music Machine; probably not as accomplished as The Association; not as rocking as The Seeds.

The Seeds - WEB OF SOUND - 1966

try:
"Pictures and Designs"
"Tripmaker"

Prog Stooges = Magma?

1 (although "Talk Talk" by The Music Machine rivals anything by anybody, and "Eagle Never Hunts The Fly" is ersatz to the max.)

2 (Talk Talk should have done a song called "The Music Machine". But they didn't.)

Prog Stooges = The Stooges

The Doors, one of the better LA 60s bands with a keyboard player. Better than The Music Machine; probably not as accomplished as The Association; not as rocking as The Seeds.

The Association didn't have a keyboard player.

The Doors aren't supposed to "rock"

Listing the 'better LA 60s bands with a keyboard player' and not mentioning Spirit?

The Doors weren't better than the Music Machine is some ways. They surely had more pretty moments overall, but they were together longer. The Music Machine did what they did better than anybody, which was turning garage rock into high musical drama with just note-perfect execution. Maybe they were the only band really shooting for this, but that was part of their genius. I think my favorite Music Machine songs are "Masculine Intuition" and "Double Yellow Line."

how fucking cool looking was jim morrison? it's fucking ridiculous is what it is, what a rock star

I don't mean to give the Doors any short shrift, by the way - just sticking up for the Music Machine. The Doors' accomplishments were sometimes super massive. I'm still a big time believer in the literary adventure of the pop musician, whatever my feelings might be about particulars in this Doors lyric or that. The spirit of the thing, literary seriousness - I am still a believer.

music machine were cool as hell
gloves!

1 It's funny that you brought up Spirit, because I think they are 1) great and 2) arguably, the first American prog band (or maybe the first American jazz-rock band....def an underrated giant step forward!)

2 Association had a keyboard player, but it's true that keyboard is not up high in the mix, and not present on all songs either.

3 I enjoyed Sean B's rant against folkies that was reproduced on the Rhino Best of the Music Machine....and also the teen tv show where they lip synch Talk Talk at a zoo

people who think jim was a hippie need to buy a clue.

easily top 10 american rock band.

2 Association had a keyboard player, but it's true that keyboard is not up high in the mix, and not present on all songs either.

Not in the 60s they didn't.

who thinks doors were hippie? they were way sleazy drunk death vibes

Manzarek sure talked a lot of hippie crap at times though

... but after Jimbo died, I don't know if that's significant or not.

no keyboards in the Association?.....well, very pleasant organ solo closing out "Never My Love." It's even on TV from 1968.

Also, the first notes on "Along Comes Mary" - that's an electric keyboard, right? On the Smothers Brothers appearance it's pretty clear that none of them standing there are playing those opening notes, then they get going.

There's a keyboard on the studio version of "Windy" too I think.

Hey, Spanky and Our Gang. Great hits, creepily calculated TV hippie appearance (see great song "Sunday Will Never Be the Same" as TV appearance for the awful truth). The other guys in the Doors would have looked like they were in one of those other hip/square bands. Kind of ironic that rock "star power" was in short supply in the (non-punk) Los Angeles bands in the 60s, they all look like they are uncomfortably inhabiting their clothes. Jim Morrison stands out as a huge exception of course.

I said no keyboard player, I didn't say no keyboards. It's almost as if bands didn't always play the instruments on their records or something crazy like that.

Dudes no one has ever gone as deep on the topic of whether or not the Association had a keyboard player

which association keyboard player you talking about, they had two iirc

The keyboards played themselves, tongues wagged - the explanation on the Smothers Brothers about being an "association" rather than a band had been taken as a joke - so later one guy had to sit there and pretend to play. The keyboards were the first to split when the hits dried up, emerging in Munich a few years later, and the rest is history.

50 FOOT HOSE, the SILVER APPLES, and SUICIDE were solid american progressive bands of the DOORS school

Just bought the two Yezda Urfa albums. There's also a new wave-ish followup called Crafty Hands.

I always hated The Doors and now I know why: I hate fucking prog.

lots of overlap between the two yezda urfa albums. i think 'boris' is a lot of demos for 'sacred baboon'?

NYCNative, you even hate CAPTAIN BEYOND?

The reason I like "Hyacinth House," for one example, is not because it's progressive. It would be interesting for me to hear people who like to think of the Doors as progressive to identify particular songs from the repertoire that fit that designation so we could see the extent to which they fit and maybe look particularly at why. I would say I kind of get it with The Soft Parade or side four of Absolutely Live, but not sure I get it elsewhere.

Even with The Soft Parade, I start wondering how many other psychedelic music albums I would also have to consider to be progressive.

Reggie, I'm not sure why the Silver Apples or 50 Ft. Hose are singled out as particular examples. Silver Apples' first album has nine tracks, eight of which are 4:11 or under. The second album does have four tracks that are 5:11 or longer, but the longest one is 6:26.

organ dominated non-pop jams, a la ray manzarek, the first keyboard wizard, is why they're singled out, in a continuum from the DOORS to SUICIDE

There is no organ in Silver Apples. I kind of get maybe looking at Simeon as a wizard in a "progressive" sense, though. Not sure I get it with Martin Rev.

50 Ft. Hose had someone making noise with electronics but "If Not This Time" sounds like the Peanut Butter Conspiracy, too.

the Doors were a death vibe, black leather and shit, Suicide is a clear descedent

tim u are looking for Doors facts u need to embrace Doors feelings

#ridethesnake
#strangedaysmono

You're right that it makes sense to say that Suicide has a vibe that maybe comes at least partly from a Doors lineage. But I don't associate that lineage with Yes or Genesis or King Crimson.

My bigger argument is that, musically, the Doors were as much a psychedelic band, a pop band, and a roots rock band (ca. last two albums) as they were a progressive band. Maybe in some cases more.

The chord progression heard on the keyboards at the beginning of "Light My Fire" with the cycle of fourths - I don't see that as progressive. It wasn't outside of any general psychedelic music practice. The keyboard solo in that song is modal over two repeating chords.

I don't see that as progressive

I mean I don't see it as "progressive" as in "progressive rock." It's reasonably innovative for 1967 for sure.

I always use "prog". Even as a big fan of the genre the whole idea of progress in music is far too subjective to attach as a genre definition.

Absolutely and I think that's exactly what we're discussing given that the first post in this thread uses the term "prog" specifically.

organ dominated non-pop jams

but most of their songs were total pop!

i.e. with the skeezed out ~dark~ undertone that upper miss describes

i.e.

I think that's exactly what we're discussing given that the first post in this thread uses the term "prog" specifically.

I thought we were discussing whether or not the Association had a keyboard player in the 60s.

simeon making his own synth rig / keybs and then naming it after himself is pretty damn proggy. not even mike ratledge, keith emerson, tony banks, or rick wakeman did that shit

xpost

Throbbing Gristle did though, con't get progger than them.

*can't

mm, con't works..

The virtuoso violin playing of MR

(cont.) The virtuoso violin playing of Mr. Genesis P-Orridge has long been admired.

http://www.insideoutmusic.com/newsde...12&IdCompany=8

woops make that

http://www.insideoutmusic.com/newsdetailed.aspx?IdNews=16312&IdCompany=8

Watching the Doors movie right now

love that film

"hey is that Arthur Lee? he's cool"

It's maybe the best bad film of all time

I don't even like the Doors but as a big dumb movie about a rock band it is really entertaining in a way that 99% of biopics are not

I love the Doors, but yeah in Oliver Stone they got a director that believed his own bullshit as much as they believed theirs

I never noticed how well Kevin Dillon learned how to play drums, he really sells it

it's the little throwaway details that make it for me - Billy Idol rhapsodizing about "the leather, the beard, the odor of the tribe", the Ed Sullivan show censor's suggestion of "girl, we can't get much better", "let's get some tacos!", Paul Williams and Crispin Glover at the Factory, Kyle MacLachlan's wig... also maybe the only movie in which I enjoy the presence of Meg Ryan

plus the editing and film stock tricks and visual trickery are just reaaallly evocative of psychedelia, Stone employing his tricks well

TRICKS I say!

kilmer's morrison is pretty great

The stuff where the wholesome California Doors go visit evil New York City with the Velvet Underground in the background & Crispin Glover slurping up the scenery as Andy Warhol. "These people are vampires, Jim."

See, if they'd give Oliver Stone the new Star Wars flicks the Death Star could be this dark VU scene and the rebel underground could be California rockers.

Luke Skywalker sings "Break on Through To The Other Side."

doors soundtrack was probably where lots of kids first heard the VU ... and hated it.

nico as this voluptuous sex kitten was pretty funny too - "morreesun"

i want to hear the 17 minute version of Alabama Song

i agree with this thread title

"remembered" / "a night on the town" on the new DEAR HUNTER nails it and "devil church" on the latest GHOST album even if non-american proceeds with choice church of manzarek organ

NYCNative, you even hate CAPTAIN BEYOND?

No, I like them. There are exceptions. I like Rush and Voivod. Probably a few more with some output I like but a lot I don't (like Yes and Van der Graaf Generator).

But as a rule, not a genre I enjoy.

doors soundtrack was probably where lots of kids first heard the VU ... and hated it.

― tylerw, Thursday, 3 September 2015 22:54 (Yesterday) Permalink

Yo, though I didn't hate it.

Also I'm trying to convince my wife its cool to get blown while doing a vocal

"Honey it was in the Doors movie! Plus I think I saw something in Tape Op about it"

love me two times. love me twice today

break on through
to the bad posts guy

I feel like Da Capo might have a better shot at being the first prog album. There are a LOT of sonic similarities between the furst Doors album and the first side of Da Capo but I have a hard time working out who influenced who in that...

One thing pribably safe to say: a lot of the groundwork for prog was laid in Los Angeles between 1965 and 1969

'Spanish Caravan' is one Doors song that comes to me that kinda seems progressive in a similar way to say the Nice or late 60s rock stretching arrangements and trying different sounds mixed together. Spanish Caravan has that Flamenco inspired acoustic number that fills out the front half of the tune then it breaks down and comes in with the similar melody electric half through the number. There is quite a bit of music packed into 2.59 in that Doors track.

It's based on Albinoni's Adagio so got the classical music thing going on.

Cool, did not know that. Makes sense.

The spoken word/poetry lp an American Prayer has the musicians from the Doors running through a straighter version of the Albinoni tune from what I remember, but I can't remember when it was recorded. If it is just part of the outtakes for Waiting For The Sun or if it was recorded later or even much later since the lp didn't come out until around 1980.

Doors were definitely influenced by Love, not the other way around. Think I read that's why they signed tomelektra -- they wanted to be on Arthur Lee's label.

*to elektra*

And I'm sure I read that Arthur Lee recommended them to Jac Holzman.

The thing here that made me question was that Da Capo was released after the first Doors album...Idk exactly how early that material is, obv 7 & 7 Is was around in 66 and Revelation was (purportedly) early enough to inspire the Stones' Goin Home, so its v possible the band were gigging a lot of the baroque/jazz-leaning songs in LA clubs early enough to influence the Doors' own sound (Morrison famously cited Love as his favorite band)...otoh I dont necessarily think its implausible that Arthur Lee, without denigrating his achievement, maybe tried to cop a little of Manzarek's steez for songs like Stephanie Knows Who and Que Vida?

I know Morrison was very influenced, especially in terms of stage presence & moves, by Van Morrison in Them when they played the whisky

It's not a huge leap from the harpsichord bit at 1:30 here to the main keyboard part of "Light My Fire":
https://youtu.be/XBRyj1ox8gs

Revelation was (purportedly) early enough to inspire the Stones' Goin Home

I thought it was the other way round

Also, "Da Capo" is 1966?

Yeah first album March and Da Capo in November

Oh wow you're right...I thought I read that it was 67. Well, then, yeah definitely I think Da Capo is the first prog record.

This is where I got the 'Revelations > Goin Home' point though:

What were the earliest LONG rock & pop songs on record?

interesting post on inspiration for Goin' Home from the Aftermath thread:

Regarding "Going home" - the idea of the long jam was stolen from Love who were playing what became "Revelations" in 1965 - it was then called "John Lee Hooker" Iirc. Mick saw them do it in LA, the next night Keith came along with Mick and saw them do it, and then used the idea as the template for "Going home". At least that's what I've read in two places - the "Da capo" sleeve notes and the book written by the drummer, or was it the bass player?

― Rob M Revisited, Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:11 PM (Yesterday)

― brio, Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:52 AM (2 years ago)Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

(Whose drummer, though? Love's or the Stones'?)

Unconvinced that Love were the first band ever to play a 'long jam' tbh.

... live, that is

I don't know, the sax solo in "Stephanie Knows Who" is like twenty-eight seconds total of music. The rest of it sounds like garage psych to me and I don't know as that I see much relation to prog in spite of the changing meters. The harpsichord on the chromatic chord progressions does sound similar to the Doors, though.

The funny thing about all this is all these guys were basically fingerprinting on the walls compared to like 10,000 jazz artists at the time

How about this:

It would seem to make some sense to say that American garage psych contained some of the roots of prog to a perhaps lesser extent than British psych but an extent nevertheless. When I say that "Stephanie Knows Who" sounds like garage psych, though, I mean that it sounds more like "Paradox City" by the Bohemian Vendetta than it sounds like "prog" as it's normally known. Take the saxophone out of that solo and it's the Byrds.

I also think elements in the Doors and Love like the sax solo were a move toward pop sophistication in what was, at the time, a traditional sense. Prog is more often futuristic, sometimes pastoral or goofy, but I don't know as that it was ever Sinatra or Johnny Mathis.

(Whose drummer, though? Love's or the Stones'?)

― watermelon nuns from Calgary (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, September 5, 2015 5:10 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

MIchael Stuart Ware was Love's 2nd drummer, possibly 3rd if Snoopy Pfisterer came between Don Conka and him. He had also drummed for Sons Of Adam.
He wrote the book Behind The Scenes At The Pegasus Carousel which I think I got mailorder which would mean it was around in the early noughties. There's been an updated edition out since, came out last year I think.

Somebody is currently trying to do a physical edition of a day by day book on Love, like Ritchie Unterberger's thing on the Velvets and various other things, I have one on the Kinks and one on the Monkees and missed picking one up on the Byrds.
He has run into trouble over images since Gettys controls them and want to charge a nasty amount for them and he's doing things on very low budget. So has been trying to find images not controlled by them. There has been a request for help on various boards.

Unconvinced that Love were the first band ever to play a 'long jam' tbh.
... live, that is

― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Saturday, September 5, 2015 12:19 PM (9 hours ago)

I've seen it said that the extended modal blues jamming of the Butterfield Blues Band's "East-West" was a big influence on the SF bands for opening up, jamming out and extending material. It definitely has a very Santana lilt even on the LP.

The song East West is epic

I've also heard Buffalo Springfield early shows in SF w Neil & Stills guitar dueling were influential on that scene

The funny thing about all this is all these guys were basically fingerprinting on the walls compared to like 10,000 jazz artists at the time

― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, September 5, 2015 2:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This like a million times. At the time too it was so exciting just that rock lyricists were now dealing with "serious" lyrical themes, albeit in a "fingerpainting on the walls" level compared to, like, actual literature. While everybody has gotten over that move decades ago, and even prog revivalists don't go around defending Richard Palmer-James as a poet, the combination of "lyrical sophistication" and "musical sophistication" are a huge part of what created the whole idea of "progress."

Weirdly, prog is pretty great anyway, but I've never agreed that rock critics who weren't impressed at the time were totally wrong about that, because there was a lot of bogus shit wrapped up that we've forgiven and forgotten over the decades.

deacon jones

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-steely-dan-created-deacon-blues-1441727645