Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?

obvious answer, but bowie in a blink.

V-2 Schneider.

I really like some of Iggy's stuff (Stooges and Bowie collaborations mostly) but for me it's clearly between Lou/Velvet and Bowie/all the people he worked with...
Very hard to decide atm.

Don't want to do it.

obvious answer, but bowie in a blink.

Don't forget it includes their bands/collaborators so Velvet Underground !

Probably Iggy, he causes the least indigestion (though I steer clear of a lot of his solo stuff, so maybe thats why)

Bowie never did a car insurance advert. (Or did he?)

I've tried and tried with the velvets but I don't think at this stage they'll ever click as an important band for me. I appreciate them rather than enjoy them.

Lou (3)
Iggy (4)
Bowie (5)

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/idol_pics/JMcelebs/79805957200780010PM.jpg

Bowie, no contest.

Bowie never did a car insurance advert. (Or did he?)

pretty sure he took over as the voice of chrchill the dog after vic reeves gave up the gig

One of the things they have in common for me is that I don't really care about their careers since the end of the 70s/early 80s (more than 30 years for all of them and Iggy's still going strong !).

I've tried and tried with the velvets but I don't think at this stage they'll ever click as an important band for me. I appreciate them rather than enjoy them.

oh ok, in that case, easy indeed !

who had the best post-80s career? (i'd go with bowie based on his stuff from 2000 to now alone, but i'm sure many lou reed fans would disagree)

Easy one for me. Lou by a country mile.

The other two are great but Lou is the greatest.

Lou for me too. I would probably have rather had a conversation with either of the other two, but as far as the work it's him.

I think although I like many more of Bowie songs, some of Lou's songs touch me more, in a deeper way (mostly with VU but not only).

Yeah, that exactly.

The head says Bowie, the heart says Lou.

and the one who rocks harder ?
between Lou and Iggy but I'd go with Iggy for "Search & Destroy" alone (although Lou rocked hard too) !

Rob Thomas by miles.

(xp) the easiest choice of all for that question, Iggy.

Bowie never did a car insurance advert. (Or did he?)

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:13 AM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He did a Pepsi ad in the 80s, and a couple of others since then.

But Lou did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDLAM48TmJQ

All I really need of Bowie: Low, "Heroes", Stage, The Next Day, Blackstar.
All I really need of Reed: Metal Machine Music, Rock 'n' Roll Animal, The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts.
All I really need of Iggy: The Stooges, Fun House, 1970: The Complete Fun House Sessions, Raw Power, Lust for Life, The Idiot, TV Eye: 1977 Live, New Values, Soldier, Party, Blah-Blah-Blah, Instinct.

So...Bowie's the only one who's done anything I love in the last 30 years, but I still gotta vote for Iggy because Fun House might be the single greatest rock album ever, and seeing the Stooges (plus Mike Watt, but with Steve Mackay) in 2003 was genuinely life-changing.

There are no losers here

hang on to yourselves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdjF-1zcK4s

well, if we're going to look for the most ridiculous/awful thing any of these guys has been involved in...

https://500daysasunder.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/screen-shot-2013-01-24-at-4-03-50-pm.png

B-b-but what about some of those latter day Lou harmony duets?

Oh yeah, there was this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBd4SuDNsGQ

god that is incredible

love all these guys, there's no wrong answers, but off the cuff I'm inclined to say Lou>>Bowie>>Iggy, just cuz Lou was first and is arguably the more archetypal and emotionally engaging (and ultimately kind of tragic, I think) figure

like Bowie and Iggy both seem to have found some measure of peace, Lou seemed tortured and bitter and cranky to the end

Shakey otm

Despite all the Tai Chi master silkscreen.

yeah, lou was like the least chill zen-minded individual ever

god the iggy i have no use for i have no for to an extent that nothing in the lou or bowie catalogs can dream of approaching. that said when bowie passed i found myself listening to the idiot over and over more than any actual bowie albums. brain says lou, heart says iggy. voting lou, maybe if iggy had played guitar for the stooges...

really glad you guys *know* people just by following em in the media

xp

Lou seemed tortured and bitter and cranky to the end

Really?

otoh i was gonna say 'this is like modern lovers vs new romantics vs...' but i couldn't find an inheritor to the stooges that i felt comfortable actually comparing to the stooges

Lou for me, but I can understand arguments for all three.

really glad you guys *know* people just by following em in the media

xp

Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at right

best album from them : I might go with VU&Nico or VU for Lou, Stooges or Raw Power for Iggy and Ziggy or Station2Station for Bowie, I guess.
Lou wins.

really glad you guys *know* people just by following em in the media

true, we should all just pay attention to dennis perrin's twitter instead

I don't really care about Lou or Iggy

this thread makes me want to know more about Lou's output in the 80s.

I'll give a try at "Blue Mask" and "New York"...

The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, and New Sensations are wonderful records, superior to anything Bowie and Iggy released in that period.

Blah Blah Blah is not terrible though.

Anyone defend Brick by Brick? It got lots of boomer praise for its "mature" songs and boomer career revivalist Don Was' production. Guess Iggy benefited from nostalgia as much as the Stones, Dylan, Young, etc.

Ugh

superior to anything Bowie and Iggy released in that period.

that's not saying much, is it !
but yeah, apparently, they're quite good.

Really?

his last album was a grim, rage-filled contrarian "fuck you" move (ie, standard operating Lou procedure) so yeah

I'll give a try at "Blue Mask" and "New York"...

Blue Mask is good, the last one I would recommend unreservedly (Alfred and I differ on this point). New York is fun for the first couple of songs and then becomes something of a po'-faced slog.

Blah Blah Blah is not terrible though.

No, but the production is arguably the worst of anything any of those artists put out in the 80s.

Like one or two tunes on BxB but can't stand the production.

"New York" is kind of an outlier in Lou's catalog in that every single song has the same sound/instrumental setup. The lack of variation is both unusual and (after awhile) grating.

xp

B-b-but what about Rock and Roll Animal?

Magic and Loss is much more samey-sounding than New York

No, but the production is arguably the worst of anything any of those artists put out in the 80s.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat),No, but the production is arguably the worst of anything any of those artists put out in the 80s.

Bowie's production suits "Shades" and a couple others more than it would on, say, NLMD.

B-b-but what about Rock and Roll Animal?

well okay sure but that's a live album, guess I should've specified studio albums (fwiw I don't really like RnR Animal at all)

"New York" is kind of an outlier in Lou's catalog in that every single song has the same sound/instrumental setup.
YOU CAN'T BEAT TWO GUITARS, BASS, AND DRUMS

lol just came across this john mellencamp quote in re: to Lou's New York: "Yeah, it sounds like it was produced by an eighth-grader, but I like it."

hahaha

xposts
thanks for the recommendations !
I'll start with Blue mask, then.
As for Iggy, nothing seems worthwhile after idiot/lust for life...

http://www.toorex.com/_/rsrc/1442393593822/news-page/marc_bolan.jpg?height=356&width=400

write-in for the real MAIN MAN

The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, and New Sensations are wonderful records, superior to anything Bowie and Iggy released in that period.

agree 100%-and that's without mentioning Quine on the first 2.

ahah, yeah, I thought about him (since he's on Iggy's t-shirt in the picture) !

/"New York" is kind of an outlier in Lou's catalog in that every single song has the same sound/instrumental setup./
YOU CAN'T BEAT TWO GUITARS, BASS, AND DRUMS

& tbh i love the overall sound of New York, just nicely recorded, crisp sounds, doesn't sound terribly dated. that eighth grader had skillz.

Still wish he had gone back to get his GED

The Blue Mask and LH bombed. Wonder if they would have performed better at the height of boomer revivalism several years later.

he was never exactly a steady hitmaker! 'dirty blvd' benefited alot from the emergence of modern rock radio

Always thought it was deeply weird that that's Dion singing backup on Dirty Blvd, but in the video that part is lip-synced by an old black guy (iirc)

we should all just pay attention to dennis perrin's twitter instead

his 'dressing up as Bowie in high school' blog post was pretty good.

is there an album that has all three together? feels like as much as they all collaborated there should be....

Re-run the thread when Iggy pops his cloggs as 4th option.

they're all only a couple degrees removed from one another (thx to Cale and Eno), but no

xp

"The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, and New Sensations are wonderful records, superior to anything Bowie and Iggy released in that period.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:45 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

"Legendary Hearts" is hell of underrated, ha I ignored it for a long time cuz of the dumb album cover

and well duh Bowie worked w both obviously

xxp

is there an album that has all three together? feels like as much as they all collaborated there should be....

I don't think there's an album but maybe a song ?

or at least a session/demo/outtake whatever.

12" version of 'hands across america' maybe

i could be wrong, but i don't think Lou really liked Iggy -- did they become buddies in the latter days?

"The Blue Mask, Legendary Hearts, and New Sensations are wonderful records, superior to anything Bowie and Iggy released in that period.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:45 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

"Legendary Hearts" is hell of underrated, ha I ignored it for a long time cuz of the dumb album cover

I've never read about Lou and Iggy interacting tbh. I can imagine Lou feeling threatened

might just be thinking of Lou dissing Iggy in that Lester Bangs article -- "sweet, but stupid" or something like that.

xxp I think yr right, I think Iggy liked Lou, but Lou...I mean who knows

Also, I thought it was interesting in that Iggy interivew when Bowie died he was very complimentary but also made it sound like they hadn't spoken in yrs & yrs

Malkmus's vote, btw: http://www.nme.com/news/lou-reed/74044

Anyway, this poll...head says Lou, heart says Ig, for me at least

"sweet, but stupid" or something like that.

of course if you took this as an insult Lou would probably come back with "what's wrong with stupid? I love stupid"

My cursory Bowie bio reading this past week led me to believe that Iggy was perhaps Bowie's best rock star friend, but he still considered people like George Underwood his only true friends. Also seem to recall reading about some, um, cat fight between David and Lou.

iirc Lou wasn't all that grateful about Bowie saving his career in 1972

Lou had the best music video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiyX70ZqsVQ

Lou guitarist Chuck Hammer:

As a guitarist in the Lou Reed band at that time, I was actually sitting next to both David and Lou at dinner when this exchange took pace, I can tell you exactly what transpired verbally.

‘Lou had been discussing details regarding his upcoming new album- as yet un-recorded. Lou asked David if he would be interested in producing the record and David replied yes – but only upon the condition that Lou would stop drinking and clean up his act. And upon that reply, the aforementioned chaos ensued.

‘It should be noted that this verbal bantering also continued into the night back at the hotel -With Bowie in the hallway demanding that Reed “come out and fight like a man” Eventually it all quieted down as Lou never reappeared to continue the fight, and was most likely already fast asleep.’

yeah bowie and reed seemed to patch things up later in life -- think i read they socialized pretty regularly in the 2000s since both were NYC residents?
hard to imagine bowie telling Lou to "fight like a man" but who knows

Bowie would know.

Lou had the best music video:

I assume this is a mistake, since that is not the Original Wrapper video

woah puppet Lou is freaking me out

Starman says it was perhaps his first fight "since being clocked in the eye by George Underwood."
(Xp)

I haven't that video in yrs and just the memory of puppet Lou is going make me not be able to sleep tonight

think i read that Lou's mother really hated that video, which is understandable.
xp a bowie-produced Lou Reed record in 1980 would've been ... interesting.

"Legendary Hearts" is hell of underrated, ha I ignored it for a long time cuz of the dumb album cover

Meanwhile The Blue Mask could easily be mistaken for a cheapo comp, as it's just the Transformer cover photo tinted blue...

Lol, right

did Bowie get the idea of uglifying The Next Day sleeve from Lou?

Ha, I just had that thought myself...

Still think the idea that David borrowed Aladdin Sane's lighting bolt from Elvis's TCB jewelry is undercirculated.

I mean it was three years before the King bought the Lisa Marie and painted it on the tail fin.

surely Captain Marvel is the real source there

Right! Elvis was way into Captain Marvel.

"his last album was a grim, rage-filled contrarian "fuck you" move (ie, standard operating Lou procedure) so yeah"

But.... Junior Dad?

I can never choose between these guys. They're just the best thing in Music.

The head says Bowie, the heart says Lou.
the crotch definitely says Iggy though.
still, went with the heart.

Music: Bowie >>> Lou > Iggy
Interesting-ness of 70s lifestyle: Lou > Iggy > Bowie
Practical approach to music: Iggy > Bowie > Lou
Intellectual approach to music: Lou > Bowie > Iggy
Who would be the best company in a bar: Iggy > Bowie >>> Lou

Collaborators: Bowie >>> Iggy > Lou (not counting Bowie as a Lou or Iggy collaborator)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ioRWlG9PBQ

always feel like this is the soundtrack to the OP photo

write-in for Entwistle.

According to The Complete David Bowie (quoting Bowie himself I think) the inspiration was more prosaic

http://www.covington.coop/images/voltagesignsmall.jpg

write-in for Entwistle.

― by the light of the burning Citroën, Tuesday, January 26, 2016 3:46 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pretty sure that's Tony DeFries behind them.

Though Entwistle did play on Susanna Hoffs' cover of "Boys Keep Swinging," so it's all a rich tapestry.

heh i've always thought there should be an in-depth oral history just about that lou-david-iggy party, but it is likely no one remembers much.

For real! Do we even know what's its from? The MainMan holiday party?

It was taken at the Dorchester Hotel in London.
http://www.5years.com/rock.htm
(scroll down to the picture Rock's paragraph describing the circumstances is below)

Damn, I never thought about the timeline, but "Transformer" was recorded August 1972, "Raw Power" recorded September 1972

Bowie > Iggy >>>>>>> Lou

Really?

his last album was a grim, rage-filled contrarian "fuck you" move (ie, standard operating Lou procedure) so yeah

I dunno, I thought it was the last cry for his mortality and so on.

it was hardly the valedictory lap that Bowie's last album has been. Granted Lou didn't die the day after came out or anything, but I doubt that would have improved its reception. Certainly since Lou died it hasn't really gotten a critical reappraisal (which might still happen!) It's a bleak album imo, done in a style and with collaborators that he knew would throw people for a loop, at the very least.

it's definitely bleak, but maybe aside from "junior dad" it doesn't seem "old-man-about-to-die" bleak to me?

yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot of personal reflection or soul-searching or career-summing up in it.

I mean, Little Dog is obviously personal but

All that bit about "spermless" or whatever it was? I only heard it once, entirely. (The ILX lulu, however...)

Raging against the dying of the light, etc..

Who would be the best company in a bar: Iggy > Bowie >>> Lou

"You know, you have to be real careful where you sit down
In a bar these days"

For me, the Velvet Underground makes it no contest.

(btw that is Tony DeFries in the background of the photo at the top of the thread)

write in vote for b.g.

gah that's "made man". Ban me

Bowie's defense of Lulu looks a bit more calcualted now tbf.

iggy all the way

Poor Marc Bolan is in that picture too

Don't really dig Iggy or Bowie or Lou all that much tbh.

or you tbh

any velvets album > any bowie album

that's like saying any Dylan album > any Petty album

or Shakespeare > O'Neill

Meh, I'd say there are a few Bowie albums that are preferable to Loaded.

a disciple's albums rarely surpass a master's.

fun house is my pick of the litter. bowie was warhol and had the most cosmic imagination. lou came from long island accountant money and acted like it. bowie

this is David Bowie for me but Lou Reed is like 1B.

nah, lou is definitely more of a 2B

a disciple's albums rarely surpass a master's.

Yeah, I don't see this as being the relationship at all. The Velvet Underground were a great band. Their '66-'67 output is better than Bowie's. "Space Oddity" is not the work of a VU disciple, though. If you want to make the argument that the VU were the godfathers of it all with glam and punk, I mean, OK? I'm not buying it so much tonight.

It's more fun for me to think of them as a cool '60s band from New York. And to think of the Stooges and Marc Bolan and a bunch of others as innovators. David Bowie.

My point is that the Velvets don't even belong in the conversation.

Why?

Too big, too encompassing, too weird. It's like saying Joyce is better than Colm Toibin. Why would you compare a supremely gifted novelist and short story writer to a novelist of singular protean skill like Joyce because they share a lineage? It does the lesser writer no favors.

I don't see the Velvets that way. They were a very cool band but I'm not at all convinced that their scope was ultimately greater than, let's say the period covered by Changesonebowie, much less in such a rarefied league that you can't even compare the two.

Velvets aren't as weird as Bowie imo. They were minmal and droney but Bowie is far more baroque and grotesque. Velvets have no Goblin King pop moment either. Bono singing "Perfect Day 2000 Remix" doesn't count. I will take many Bowie albums over "Loaded" any day.

Bowie had pop hits early in his career, and far greater success with novelty hits subsequently over the decades.

Tony Defries is a British former pop music manager. Defries worked in the 1960s music scene with such figures as Mickie Most, Allen Klein, before turning his attention to David Bowie. Defries' company MainMan had a management structure that combined ingredients of the movie studio with those of the independent producer/record label/music publisher. The company management included Jamie Andrews as vice-president and later president. Defries represented Bowie through his rise to stardom, reputedly making more money from the deal than the star himself. He also helped to launch the solo careers of Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Mick Ronson, Mott the Hoople, Luther Vandross and John Mellencamp. His MainMan Group of companies assisted in the creation of many independent record and publishing companies that were later acquired by major conglomerates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Defries

Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?

Bowie is far more baroque and grotesque

LOL gtfo Velvets were both of these, in spades. Among other things.

Life On Mars vs. what is the most baroque Velvets song?

Murder Mystery? Lady Godiva?

The viola and glockenspiel on "Stephanie Says," the glockenspiel on "Sunday Morning." Maybe the extended chords on "Femme Fatale." Maybe something like the melodicism and imagery of "All Tomorrow's Parties."

This thread is taking a stagenosedive

I'm just throwing out things I think are about as close to baroque rock as, say, Love. Would probably give a narrower definition of baroque rock proper, though.

Iggy's the least gifted of the three, but the Stooges records (particularly Funhouse) meant more to me than anything Lou and Bowie ever did. Have to vote for Igg.

Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?

If by "save" you mean keep alive via artificial means, sure. Artistically, though, there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

Lou and David wish they were Iggy.

xpost it's a fit sequel, but.

naaah, Lou only wished one thing : to play for the coach.
by the way, I have listened to "Blue Mask". It's ok but I guess I don't really need 80s Lou... (although I have to admit "Women" made me laugh !).

there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.

Lou. I'll take the Velvets' four albums (along with The Blue Mask) over Bowie's and Iggy's entire catalogues.

by the way, I have listened to "Blue Mask". It's ok but I guess I don't really need 80s Lou...

hey Lou doesn't need YOU either, he's just an average guy

I love women. I think they're great.

more thoughts re: the Velvets vs. Bowie - the one thing Bowie did, thematically, that the Velvets didn't was science fiction. Lou was not interested in that shit. But musically an awful lot of Bowie's styles can be traced back to the Velvets in some way or another (which he would and did freely acknowledge), I think Alfred is v otm about the master:disciple relationship.

SATELLITE OF LOVE tho

but yeah, Lou wasn't really a sci-fi dude as far as i know (he was into EC horror comics, i believe)

hmm yeah satellite of love is kind of proto-space oddity - the alienation of space/technology

At one point Lou was going to do a comic bk version of The Raven w/ Neil Gaiman, p glad that never happened

I sold Bowie an EC Science Fiction box set when I was working in a London comic shop in the 1980s

Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.

― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:40 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agree with 誤訳侮辱, Fun House towers over Raw Power.

Fun House is absolutely epochal and decades ahead of its time; Raw Power is a fun, shitty-sounding record with a middling guitarist.

xp well this came out (don't think Gaiman was involved)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iKlhcytgL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I'd forgotten about that - any good?

i've avoided it...

whoa stop the presses and look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4kl8LNm7hc

nice Joker makeup

i don't really see the value in choosing
their careers and lives were intertwined but honestly they are all so different artistically that i don't care to say like oh man station to station kicks funhouse's ass! fuck that! satellite of love blows compared to v-2 schneider! oh yeah?? the passenger makes afterhours sound like a donkey fart!

hmm yeah satellite of love is kind of proto-space oddity - the alienation of space/technology

Not sure how it could described as proto.

well I'm not really sure which one was written first (I doubt you know either)

certainly Space Oddity was *released* first

it's possible that was Lou copping "Space Oddity", I suppose, dunno if he ever discussed that particular song anywhere

The Byrds "Hey Mr. Spaceman" and "Eight Miles High"

also "telstar"

that's probably ground zero

those songs aren't really about alienation iirc

I mean there are tons of songs about outer space, aliens, astronauts etc. but Space Oddity and Satellite of Love are more about how *lonely* being in outer space could be, and about how technology separates people from one another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQA3jzmvA4

heh I wonder if Lou and Tom Wilson ever chatted about Sun Ra

'please mr kennedy (don't you shoot me into outer space)'

puh-puh-puh-puhleeze

uh-OH

hadn't thought of it before, but yeah, satellite of love *could've* been Lou kinda taking a sly shot at "space oddity"... think that "satellite" was written in late '69.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VCWveMY8vzU?feature=player_detailpage"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(ack, sorry, Shirley Collins with Space Girl)

look if we're just going to post songs about space we can start another thread cuz as a subject that goes *waaaaaay* back (Hank Snow's "Honeymoon on a Rocketship" is 1953 and I'm sure there's earlier stuff than that)

xp

Never really saw "Satellite of Love" as being about alienation and the loneliness of space. It's more about watching TV than outer space.

Where is the loneliness, is "Soon it'll be filled with parkin' cars" supposed to be alienating?

Lou and David's writing styles are so different though - David's a romantic and Lou's colloquial. It's the prosaic qualities in Lou's work that keep me coming back to understand my life through his, but David let's me fly.

Was never big on Iggy but have a lot of respect for his work of course.

love is gone into outer space, only accessible via TV

xp

Was Space Oddity a well known song in the US in 1969?

Nope. It wasn't a hit here until 1973 (#15).

So Lou probably more familiar with Sun Ra in '69 than David Bowie after all.

My parents had the single.

Then again I first heard Iggy Pop in a movie movie theater showing "Problem Child" and now the Iggy-Bowie songs are in commercials for cruise ships. Kind of amazing how successful these three turned out to be. From junkies to afternoon TV.

Iggy's the least gifted of the three, but the Stooges records (particularly Funhouse) meant more to me than anything Lou and Bowie ever did. Have to vote for Igg.

― circa1916, Wednesday, 27 January 2016 07:12 (14 hours ago) Permalink

^^^ cosign this; while my knowledge of these three dudes' discographies is far from comprehensive, Fun House and The Idiot would be #1 & #2 on my list by such a huge margin (VU s/t & Ziggy Stardust *might* be in sniffing distance, depending on which way the wind blows), it more than makes up for the fact that no other Iggy/Stooges material would crack the top 10

PS: I still ride for Bowie's brilliantly insane mixing of Raw Power -- Raw Power in general I have a lot of love for, there are some wonderful songs on there -- but if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

Who's the Main Man : Bowie, Iggy or Lou ?
He will walk through the wall if you want him to

i agree about the bowie mix of raw power being the better one. personally i've always found the iggy remix really hard to sit through.

if you come in here running your mouth about how it's a better record than Fun House I will smash my beer bottle, wave it at you and demand that you get out

No-one has that though... possibly ever.

ahem

Bowie vs Iggy is tough cos didn't Bowie basically save the Stooges?

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 January 2016 04:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

If by "save" you mean keep alive via artificial means, sure. Artistically, though, there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:16 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there's no universe in which Raw Power is a better album than Fun House, or even a fit sequel.

Wrongest statement of 2016 so far. Long way to go though tbf.

― The Return of the Thin White Pope (Tom D.), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:40 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But I never her. OK that was confusing because I meant the statement about it not being a 'fit sequel'.

.. which it is.

And how.

Area mean loudly proclaims Raw Power Funhouse fit sequel status.

Hray!

Thurston Moore has said in an interview or essay somewhere that he's more a Raw Power guy than a Funhouse guy. It was apparently the first Iggy he heard, being sold by the Mick Rock cover photo.

have always preferred Raw Power to Fun House but only narrowly and probably in part because Raw Power really reached my speeding teenage soul. Kinda feel like everybody in here is now officially too old to be doing the NO WAY, THE ONE IS A MIGHTY TOWER OF EXCELLENCE AND SHITS FROM THE TOP OF A COCONUT TREE ON THE OTHER, WHO COULD BE SO BAFFLINGLY STUPID AS TO PREFER THE WRONG ONE tho, c'mon yall

question is moot

i am the main man

are you now are you now

My anti-RP arguments can be boiled down as follows:

1) Sonically, it's always been a big ol' mess and there's really no salvaging it. If ugly-on-purpose (as opposed to ugly beauty) is your thing, great, but it's not mine.

2) I get the appeal of speed as JCLC describes it, but that's not and never has been as big a value for me as bringing the heavy. Fun House brings the heavy.

3) Steve Mackay > no Steve Mackay

4) Fun House swings; Raw Power careens. (This relates back to #2, because the best heavy music - Black Sabbath being example #1 here - swings.)

Also, when I say "fit sequel" I'm mostly saying that Raw Power is not a logical follow-up to Fun House in the way that Fun House was a logical follow-up to The Stooges. It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner. (Of course, they were probably way too high and pissed off at each other to do that, so radical intervention was required if there was even gonna be a band at all. Which suggests that maybe there shouldn't have been, anymore? Hence my statement about keeping the band alive by artificial means.)

It feels like, by yanking the core components of the band out of place - new lead guitarist! The old lead guitarist is the bassist now! The bassist, who was actually really, really important to the core sound, is gone! - they created an entirely new band rather than allowing the old band to continue to refine and develop its sound in an organic manner.

I would say this is absolutely true. Funhouse is a considerably more musical record - the band's playing really way, they find an amazing sound. Raw Power just reached waaaaaay deep down inside me when I was a teenager, it'll always own my heart. And Iggy hits some lyrical moments that're among his very best - "there's nothing in my dreams, just some ugly memories" - Jesus. That album cover - the opening solo on "Search and Destroy" - the ghastly void of "Shake Appeal" - it's like a 70s horror movie to me. Not The Omen: The Hills Have Eyes.

But yeah I mean from a technical standpoint the recording and playing and groove and everything is better on Raw Power. It's better in every sense except that Raw Power reaches me way deeper, so it's better to me.

"really way better" in 1st line, sorry

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

誤訳侮辱 otm on all points. Just want to add that I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

y'all gonna hate me for this but I'm convinced the logical follow-up to Fun House is Joy Division (live, not in-studio)

You also misspelled "Fun House" in that last sentence.

ha, right. playing much better on Fun House. I don't think anybody could reasonably argue the opposite unless they were on some Lester Bangs "the best playing is the sloppiest" thing or something.

I always felt the "logical" follow-up to Fun House would've been something that built on/extended what they were doing on "L.A. Blues" (but that's just wild fantasy speculation on my part).

Just a side note to mention that if this is what you're looking for, check out Spain Is The Place, an album featuring Ricardo Tejero on alto sax, Colin Webster on tenor and baritone saxes, and Marco Serrato and Borja Diaz of Orthodox on bass and drums. It's coming out soon on Raw Tonk Records, but there's a track on Soundcloud already:

https://soundcloud.com/rawtonkrecords/tejerowebsterserratodiaz-el-gordillo

The Fun House box is fascinating for a number of reasons, chief among them how meticulous they were in their approach. On one false start (I think it's a take of "Loose"), Iggy stops everyone and says, "I forgot to say 'hey!' at the beginning!"

xp A few Takayanagi records have already scratched that itch for me, but that sounds good.

The true answer is Jagger but yeah, he's a notch above. It's obviously Lou otherwise. Let's not get carried away with Bowie love. Nothing he did is in the same realm as the VU. Iggy is an afterthought, I'd go Rotten before Iggy.

I think what most impresses me about Fun House is that it covers all this ground -- obviously I can't know how "Down on the street" or "T.V. Eye" sounded in 1970, but they rock in a way that I feel okay describing as 'straightforward' -- whereas by the end of side B, The Stooges have brought us to the edge of sheer formless sonic chaos & left us squinting into the darkness after them -- spellbound by Iggy's charisma, the aforementioned swingin' basslines, the fiercely rudimentary drumming, we don't notice the change is upon us until it's too late.

I had originally described this pseudo-narrative progression as the album "making sense" when taken as a whole, but as I tried to elaborate on that notion, I realized that I mean something closer to the opposite: The album doesn't make any sense, at least none that I can express in words. But it produces effects, powerful effects, effects that I seek in vain from other rock music, finding only faint traces, reflections and echoes that point me right back to Fun House. Faced with this reality, I have to posit some higher, invisible metaphysical realm of "art", a plane of existence on which, thanks to some hidden numerological craziness, Fun House would, in fact, make sense; because my brain simply can't admit that, in a record whose ecstasy stirs me in the deepest regions of my soul, there might be nothing speaking through the music except brutal nihilism & meaningless contingency.

(btw the failed mysticism of my last post is in no way a repudiation of meticulousness, or an assertion that "beginner's luck" had anything to do with it -- rather, I'm denying that craftmanship in the recording process, or any other intentional factor, can sufficiently account for the powerful aura which eventually settled over the finished product)

The true answer is Jagger but yeah, he's a notch above. It's obviously Lou otherwise. Let's not get carried away with Bowie love. Nothing he did is in the same realm as the VU. Iggy is an afterthought, I'd go Rotten before Iggy.

And we have a new Wrongest Opinion champion for this thread. Congratulations.

Thanks! Who did I steal the title from?

Tuomas

But yeah, I stand behind it. What part is wrong? Fun House is great but I'm not sure if it's because of Iggy. Nevermind the Bollocks is godly because of Rotten no doubt. Bowie is impressive/interesting but not often truly great. Surely not on the level of songwriting that is Reed's VU run. It goes Sister Ray > Station to Station >>> Dirt

yeah disagree w/ everything in that post except iggy vs. rotten (i'll take metal box/second edition over anything iggy did after funhouse).

Sister Ray > Station to Station >>> Dirt
― simmel, Thursday, January 28, 2016 5:56 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post

Sister Ray is super overrated. I imagine many garage bands in the 60s were capable bashing out 30-minute drone jams. They just didn't get put to tape.

^^^

Thurston Moore has said in an interview or essay somewhere that he's more a Raw Power guy than a Funhouse guy. It was apparently the first Iggy he heard, being sold by the Mick Rock cover photo.

Hey, it's my old mate Thurston! RP was the first Stooges album I heard, in fact it was years before I heard Funhouse, by which time I'd already heard the first album and several Iggy solo albums, LOL the olden days.

Sister Ray is super overrated. I imagine many garage bands in the 60s were capable bashing out 30-minute drone jams. They just didn't get put to tape.

We have a possible new contender for wrongest statement of 2016. Like just anyone could pull off the sounds Reed and Cale are producing on this track!

Or Tucker. Or Morrison.

The VU would be my #1 contender for that "things you admire but don't like" thread, if I could say I admired them. The best I can offer is that I recognize and concede the breadth of their influence, while believing that literally everything that's come in their wake, down to the most half-assed Jesus & Mary Chain B-side, is better than their own work.

^^^newer contender for wrongest statement of 2016

http://static.rogerebert.com/redactor_assets/pictures/far-flung-correspondents/he-coulda-been-a-contender/on-the-waterfront-charley-head-rest.jpg

otm

Kind of my introduction to all three way back when...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPvWoEiaEqU

loved that doc, taped all 10 episodes and watched them over and over again. That one and the funk one were totally revelatory to me.

Voting for Bowie - I return to his music every 8-10 years and always discover something new. My VU/Lou Reed phase was kind of a one shot in college. I still haven't heard a lot of Iggy's solo albums.

Also, I've been thinking a best Bowie guitarist poll would be fun. Trying to think of them all: Ronson, Slick, Fripp, Alomar, Frampton, Gabrels, SRV, Belew, Nile Rogers, Bowie himself... who else?

Sorry - I meant to put this on the Bowie thread.

Wow, that "Soul Man" video with Lou/Sam Moore was something else. I turned it off when the old granny was singing with the black mic.

Bowie - Iggy --- Lou

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The capper is surely Reed’s audible contempt as he consigns the consensus world’s best rock and roll band to idiot fodder: “I never liked the Beatles. ... I thought they were garbage. If you say, ‘Who did you like?’ I liked nobody.”

Lou wins.

You should have quoted the paragraph above as well.

Saw this in the window of a store yesterday, almost bought it:
http://www.nostalgicimages.com/store/images/products/large_1097_406.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Balls.

Lol wat

If only Iggy was dead.

Bite yr tongue

ha ha well we can put this one to bed

Nonsense

i didn't vote because i couldn't decide

I'm is correct once again

Lol stupid phone lol

ILM is correct

You fools! Iggy is the main man.

Anyhoo poll reminded me of this recently released recording of Bowie doing impersonations of several musicians: Bolan, Lou and Iggy among them. His Lou and Iggy are spot on:

http://youtu.be/NrtXFTw2ico

69...

xxxposts

I didn't vote either !
I guess I should have voted Lou.
Maybe the poll was a bit biased because of the timing regarding Bowie but I suppose he has a broader appeal, anyway.

It does say http://www.bowiegoldenyears.com/graphics/mainman125.gif

Now, if it was "The Man"...

Yeah this poll should have been done after Lou died.

Any artist who disrespects another artist by calling their music crap is a complete asshole, I picked up Lou Reed when I was a driving a cab in 1973, told him I was a big fan and he was an incredible nasty prick. Then gave a 10 cent tip, which I threw at him and hit him in the back of his head. he just kept walking away

Like · Reply · 13 · Yesterday at 08:37

LOL, Lou wins again.

ahah. classic !

Wait, where is that from?

Facebook.

Thought you told me you didn't do