SOME POLLS ARE BIGGER THAN OTHERS - ILM Artist Poll #72 - THE SMITHS

1. Rank your top 20 Smiths songs. I think the list below is everything, if something's missing let me know, likewise if you specifically want to vote for the Sandie Shaw version of Hand In Glove.

Normal scoring: 1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12

2. Albums: rank your top five albums, compilations are more than welcome.

Send your ballots to me at nathanwoolls AT gmail.com.

Deadline is midnight UK time on Monday March 1st 2016.

A Rush And A Push And The Land Is Ours
Accept Yourself
Ask
Asleep
Back To The Old House
Barbarism Begins At Home
Bigmouth Strikes Again
Cemetry Gates
Death At One's Elbow
Death Of A Disco Dancer
Frankly, Mr. Shankly
Girl Afraid
Girlfriend in a Coma
Golden Lights
Half A Person
Hand In Glove
Handsome Devil
Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now
How Soon Is Now?
I Don't Owe You Anything
I Keep Mine Hidden
I Know It's Over
I Started Something I Couldn't Finish
I Want The One I Can't Have
I Won't Share You
Is It Really So Strange?
Jeane
Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me
London
Meat Is Murder
Miserable Lie
Money Changes Everything
Never Had No One Ever
Nowhere Fast
Oscillate Wildly
Paint A Vulgar Picture
Panic
Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want
Pretty Girls Make Graves
Reel Around The Fountain
Rubber Ring
Rusholme Ruffians
Shakespeare's Sister
Sheila Take a Bow
Shoplifters Of The World Unite
Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others
Still Ill
Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before
Stretch Out And Wait
Suffer Little Children
Sweet and Tender Hooligan
That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore
The Boy with the Thorn in His Side
The Draize Train
The Hand That Rocks The Cradle
The Headmaster Ritual
The Queen Is Dead
There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
These Things Take Time
This Charming Man
This Night Has Opened My Eyes
Unhappy Birthday
Unloveable
Vicar In A Tutu
Well I Wonder
What Difference Does It Make?
What She Said
What's The World
William, It Was Really Nothing
Wonderful Woman
Work Is A Four Letter Word
You Just Haven't Earned It Yet, Baby
You've Got Everything Now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QURwE3NGI

A new poll!! Very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMLMjDDQSNE

Actually, delete that one..

Oh, this is gonna be fun, and hard. Coming up on a big deadline this week but will definitely get cracking on a ballot after that. Such a manageable catalog too!

It's so weird seeing how few songs they actually recorded. It felt like so much more.

Harbour Lights is missing

Strike that, it's "Golden Lights" and it isn't missing, soz.

There's actually probably a lot of stuff I don't know about, and there's also those outtakes that were leaked a few years ago. So long as I'm made aware of any alternate titles, etc, vote for whatever you like.

this will be a good opportunity to give their album cuts a better chance. shamefully, i tend to just stick with the louder than bombs/hatful of hollow songs.

Yeah, I got in through my brother's copies of Best... I and II in the early 90s and taped my favorites. Then eventually I got Louder Than Bombs and a while after that The Queen Is Dead but it was absolutely ages before I got the other three albums and I still have never felt like I knew their details and deep cuts as much. The first one especially - it sounded so little like the stuff I had been initially drawn to.

I tried to get a bunch of us to go see them at Reading Uni, but "never heard of them" ..

Did get to see them at the Hexagon about a year later, Meat is Murder tour, James supporting.

Then eventually I got Louder Than Bombs and a while after that The Queen Is Dead

tbh I could live with these two forever, but there are good deep cuts I might miss from time to time.

"That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" is an essential part of any Smiths diet

I didn't get MIM until a few years ago and it was better than I imagined.

A good reason for me to explore their catalogue; right now, my ballot would probably consist entirely of "Ask" and "Panic."

the first album is the only one I would be okay dispensing with, it's too uniform

nah there are some super standout classics - i mean "This Charming Man," "What Difference Does It Make?" "Hand In Glove" - where I practically can't imagine the Smiths without those songs. There's definitely the dirgey-wirgey stuff that does make it feel samey, but I wouldn't toss the whole record.

sure, and the standouts are standouts for a reason. Just feel its melodically and stylistically weaker than the others.

Also, all of those songs appear in superior form on Hatful of Hollow

first album sounds a little clumsy compared to what came later, but I think has this unsettling intensity that is absent from the other records. there's an old nabisco post on one of the smiths threads where he talks about what a weirdo Morrissey is, and how if he hadn't become a pop star he's the creepy loner who hangs around the library making other ppl uncomfortable or something. and I think that really comes across on the debut, that this was written and recorded when he didn't know that he was going to make it as a pop star, that there was the possibilty he was just going to end up being the library guy

xpost ha, fair point. it's definitely like the last album i would send new fans to if they're working their way through the discography.

yeah that's great point too, soref (and nabisco). i mean it is also just much more ... gothy? than the others. not sure what the non-anachronistic term would be but it's surely the most "emo" album... with MIM feeling the most DIY punk, "the riches of the poor" and all. despite "how soon is now?" it's generally jauntier and there are more notes of sunshine or hope-against-the-odds. by the queen is dead we're in full theatrical irony/camp territory which is a different animal though it may come from some of the same profound emotional spaces.

I think that really comes across on the debut, that this was written and recorded when he didn't know that he was going to make it as a pop star

is this true, though? it was released in 1984, recorded in 1983, and a few weeks ago i went on a random live smiths youtube binge and i thought i remembered the crowd going absolutely NUTS in '83, like piles of flowers were being thrown at morrissey wherever he turned. it was absurd

but my memory isn't reliable (it could have been an '84 clip with all the flowers), and others would know much more about the smiths' pre-debut notoriety

I think a lot of the lyrics for the first album were written before he even met Marr? idk though, I will admit that all of these are just impressions based on listening to the albums and zero research, I may well be completely wrong

the lyrics sound so much like teenage concerns/teenage points of view, it's easy to forget that he was already just a few months shy of his 25th birthday when the first album came out, I do get a sense that he felt time was running out in terms of his chance to 'make it' (maybe last chance to avoid having to become a proper grown-up, rather than spending the rest of your life in the protracted adolescence of pop stardom?)

imagine Morrissey as an accountant

You Just Haven't Earned Income Tax Credits, Baby

I was looking for deductions and then I found deductions

But sometimes I'd feel more fulfilled
Reviewing quarterly earnings statements with the mentally ill

Do people prefer the Hatful of Hollow version of This Charming Man? Really?

I do, by miles and miles and miles

Everything on the debut sounds to me like it was recorded through a pillow.

oh totally disagree on this charming man. hatful version sounds sloppy/messy. would have to A/B the others though, kinda forgot they had other versions.

Are votes for different versions being amalgamated in the rollout?

This is going to be tough. I think I've got my top 5 songs pretty much set, but beyond that, I've only got the vague sense of how my ballot will turn out.

tbh, I'm going to wait until it starts raining again to listen to the catalog, cuz I just can't bring myself to get my Moz on when it's 75 degrees and sunny outside

I'm going to total all different versions together but I will breakdown the totals when I do the rundown.

xxp

the first album is the only one I would be okay dispensing with, it's too uniform

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:23 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think The Smiths has a lot of great material on it, but I don't think the production of the record is all that great and the end result gives me the impression that they didn't manage to capture the best possible performances of the material. Meat Is Murder has better production, but I don't think the songwriting is anywhere near as strong. They got it right with The Queen Is Dead and I think Strangeways, Here We Come has some excellent moments. Ultimately though, this band are more about individual tracks for me rather than albums in full.

They're one of the acts by way of whom I learned the term "singles band" - there are like whole crucial aspects of their sound that barely come across on the albums, or seem like side notes or comic relief or something. It's like if most of the Beatles singles were Ringo songs and all of them were in most fans' essential desert island tracks.

Whipped up an initial list of 25 songs and can't see myself parting with any of them. I can already tell that nothing from Strangeways is gonna make my ballot

I've never really understood the love people have for the Hatful of Hollow versions of the s/t album tracks - none of them seem better at all except What Difference Does It Make has much better drums than the s/t, and the guitar tone is a bit more forceful, but that's balanced out by the s/t version having the guitar overdubs which do add a lot and it's slightly faster too. The other Hatful of Hollow versions seem definitely inferior

^^I'm in the same boat. The Hatful version of "This Charming Man" in particular, while lovely in its own way and interesting for having a slightly different take on the main riff, could never compare to the s/t version, which to my mind is the Rourke/Joyce rhythm section's finest hour. It has this wonderful headlong propulsive rush to it that the Hatful version lacks.

Sent off a ballot; I spent enough of my adolescence steeped in this music, and go through subsequent Smiths phases often enough, that I don't want to overthink the rankings.

JRN OTM

still unreleased after all these years and maybe my favourite *ever* Moz vocal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3diNIsKG2w

and yeah re the lyrics on the debut, some were written pre-Smiths and ever pre-Marr. when they had their first meet, Marr left with a copy of the words to Suffer Little Children, written out like a poem. so arguably their most famous lyric ("Oh Manchester, so much to answer for") wasn't even written as part of a song let alone a Smiths song.

my fave ever Smiths-related photo

http://www.johnnymarrplaysguitar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Smiths.jpg

Well I Wonder
I Want The One I Can't Have
What She Said
Half A Person
William, It Was Really Nothing
Still Ill
Hand In Glove
Reel Around The Fountain
Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me
There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
Accept Yourself
I Won't Share You
Is It Really So Strange?
Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now
Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want
Pretty Girls Make Graves
How Soon Is Now?
That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore
The Boy with the Thorn in His Side
I Don't Owe You Anything

I'm honestly considering just submitting Louder Than Bombs as my ballot

you'll still need to cut four songs, though

i would have opened up Bauhaus, as i alluded to in the rolling thread. was just waiting to see if someone else would go.

anyways, as i suggested when you asked Nate, very happy that you are doing a Smiths poll. i will get a ballot together.

I'm shocked and disappointed no one's discussing "You Just Haven't Heard It Yet, Baby."

Probably going to be my number 1 if I remember to vote.

Stretch Out and Wait is (and has been for a very long time) my favorite Smiths song. But it's the version of Louder Than Bombs and not the version on The World Won't Listen.

i'm in the camp that thinks Hatful of Hollow is vastly superior to the debut album.

Definitely voting in this one. I think I've told this before, but I don't really know much of their work beyond the 1995 Singles comp, because that felt so perfect and self-contained that I didn't want to go to the albums and inevitably be let down by deep cuts. But I started the trip through the discography tonight.

is there a consensus best song? i'll jump in the ocean if "how soon is now" wins

"There is a Light..." would probably be the consensus pick.

I'm shocked and disappointed no one's discussing "You Just Haven't Heard It Yet, Baby."

Can we include the Kirsty MacColl cover in the discussion?

Yeah guys, please don't let "How Soon is Now" take this. There's a song I never need to hear again.

did anyone ever answer the question tho

A lot of times I'm thinking it's between hand in glove and still ill, but then the next time around I'm thinking headmaster ritual and willam

These Things Take Time, bitches. That is all.

"What Difference Does It Make?" we will find out soon enough.

"How Soon Is Now" won't make my top 20. It probably wouldn't make my top... let's say 60.

"Ask" will probably be my #2, as "spending warm summer days indoors/writing frightening verse to a buck-toothed girl in Luxembourg" is one of my favorite lyrics of all time.

I definitely like How Soon, though. C'mon now. Just Marr's guitar work on it alone makes it top 10 material.

I'm mostly interested in where "Asleep" places. Would say a lot about ILX.

The fade between Rubbering Ring and Asleep on the 12" is so good. Did they ever issue that on CD?

Rubbering Ring is a pretty good typo.

xxp Asleep is not on my ballot but I'm putting Reel Around The Fountain all the way up. That feels relevant somehow.

sort of wish Asleep was on The Queen is Dead as the closer

xxxxxp The Tune Was Space - is that your ballot?

'Rubber ring/Asleep', no apart from the 12" they were always separate. Which is wrong.

My balloot may just be TQID and then a load of singles, plus RR/A.

wtf is a balloot

I'll take a balloot, I don't mind.

Balloots are what they post in Canada, I think.

re-listened to the first album this morning, the overall sound of it is better and less monotonous than I remembered, Marr was pretty strong with the arrangements right out of the gate. But Morrissey was not imo, there's a fair amount of atonal yelping, clumsy falsetto, boring/barely there vocal melodies that don't really make for memorable songs. I'll pull a few from the album for my ballot though for sure.

Side 2 of Meat is Murder is where it feels like something special really starts to happen.

the rhythm section really gets it together from MIM onwards, I think as a result of lots of touring, to the extent that they sound pretty much as tight as it gets (at least for a rock band), and that made a real positive difference to their sound.

The debut has a special aura for me. I'm not really a fan anymore but that's the one I still admire.

Good reappraisal: http://nobilliards.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-smiths-meat-is-murder.html

I'm honestly considering just submitting Louder Than Bombs as my ballot

otm

I've realized the Smiths are a band where, because I know the singles all from these kind of giant compilations, I have no actual sense of what came out when, beyond the sequence of the four albums. You know, like the Beatles I could pretty much give you the whole discgraphy in order at least down to the half-year of each release, but it's only now trawling Wikipedia that I'm like, oh, "Back to the Old House" was the b-side to "What Difference Does It Make?" And it totally makes sense - would 100% buy it as an album track on the s/t album... but in my brain, it's buried towards the back of Louder Than Bombs with the weird stuff and in my mind all of that stuff is like "this is as they went in strange directions, late-career oddities." I think if I pinned everything up on a wall with every single song in recorded order their career would actually be much more straightforward than I think it is, in terms of sound and themes.

All that said - I think "This Charming Man" is their first indelible, great song, and if they'd retired after that it'd still be very beloved, but maybe it's "William" - amazingly to me, released between albums one and two - that cements them in the pantheon and makes clear just what they could get out of their sound, and just how evocative and bittersweet the combination of Morrissey's vocals and Marr's guitar playing could really be. The kinda dinky/muffled recording of the drums is the only thing that's ever bothered me.

The story of Seymore Stein buying Marr a guitar in NYC, which Marr took back to the hotel and immediately wrote both William and Girl Afraid, is great. I love both of those songs so much. Horsebeach is basically a band mining the same sound, which is why I love them too.

maybe it's "William" - amazingly to me, released between albums one and two

huh as was "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now"! I had no idea, chronology is similarly blurry to me. Maybe that's an American thing.

Yeah guys, please don't let "How Soon is Now" take this. There's a song I never need to hear again.

― pitchforkian at best (cryptosicko), Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:38 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was thinking pretty much the same thing myself.

This pretty much guarantees that I'm putting "How Soon Is Now?" at the top of my ballot.

I've come to wish you an unhappy birthday

"How Soon Is Now?" is excellent

If I do end up voting for it anywhere, it'll be admiration for doing what it does well, and knowing that at some window of my adolescence, it absolutely fucking nailed it for me. But I tend to mostly make ballots more around present-day listening, what do I imagine putting on and loving every second of, and HSIN? hasn't been that for me in a long long time, sadly.

can I vote for "Hippychick"?

'How Soon Is Now?' is excellent, yeah, but I'm kinda with Doctor Casino on this in that it kinda lost its magic through overplay for me a long time ago. See also: 'Bigmouth Strikes Again'

I think there is a non-trivial difference between "I used to like this song but it doesn't mean as much to me, so I'm not voting for it" and "come on everybody, we're much better than voting one of the biggest songs from this band's catalog at the top of a poll"

Hippychick sounds like garbage

YOU SOUND LIKE GARBAGE PREPARE TO FITE

I wouldn't complain if it won! Just feels like it doesn't quite align with what I continue to love about the band, and would be a little surprised if it did. Never know on ILX though!

I'm definitely voting for this but it's gonna be a bit weird because I haven't voluntarily listened to any Smiths in ages. For me, it was a love too intense to last.

Likewise for me. The Smiths had a huge formative influence on my listening, but I haven't played a Smiths song intentionally in probably years, up until yesterday when I saw this poll. Not even sure I can yet listen to the songs objectively at this remove of time - I've heard them so much it's almost like I've lost the ability to hear them. Also, listening now can't recapture the liberating experience of hearing Morrissey's voice, persona and perspective for the first time, that feeling that it was okay to be weird, a loser, an underdog.

^OTM

No one else loves Death Of A Disco Dancer then?

I do! Strangeways is unjustly maligned, will be making up a sizable chunk of my ballot. Paint a Vulgar Picture!

Agree, "Strangeways" will be on top of my non-compilation album list.

I've read a few defenses of Strangeways; with a catalog as small as the Smiths' any album not TQID counts as underrated. Morrissey and Marr both think it's their best album.

And DOADD is a great "downer" track. But it probably won't be in my ballot, tbh.

"I Started Something You Couldn't Finish" = the best of their homoerotic numbers

I love Death of a Disco Dancer, it'll be in the top half of my ballot.

My fav track from Strangeways is "I Won't Share You", closely followed by "Last NIght I Dreamt..."

I love Strangeways and DOADD might be in my top three within the category of "downer" tracks by them. Don't know if it'll have room on the ballot but we'll see. That was the album I just straight up didn't get until after college but I really dug the hell out of it when I did, especially "A Rush and A Push." At that point I wasn't looking for the Smiths to really be anything in particular to me so it was just cool to get to know this new set of songs I didn't know, hear them stretching a bit in certain ways, fucking around in others. Of course I already knew "Girlfriend In A Coma" and "Stop Me..." but the rest was pretty much uncharted territory.

I hate Strangeways with a passion I usually reserve for solo Morrissey

with a passion Morrissey would reserve for Rourke and Joyce.

This was the easiest artist poll for me to vote in by a country mile. First pass had 21 songs; sorting the 20 was surprisingly quick after I cut out poor #21. Took me about 15 minutes, and it would have taken me a third of that if the band didn't use such hard-to-remember titles

"Paint a Vulgar Picture" has only gone up and up in my estimation over the years - there are days I'd call it my favorite Smiths song

I've realized the Smiths are a band where, because I know the singles all from these kind of giant compilations, I have no actual sense of what came out when, beyond the sequence of the four albums

otm, it's pretty cool going here and sorting by year recorded, even though it's not chronological inside each year

"Paint a Vulgar Picture" is the ultimate singalong, but it's ~marred~ by the fact that the lyrics aren't as relatable as those of my favorite Smiths songs.

I avoided listening to The Smiths as a teenager precisely because I didn't want to be the weirdo loser I was. It's only in relatively recent times (I got TQID at uni when I was about 20, and only got everything else about three years ago when the box set was cheap) that I've really started to like them. Although I feel like all the singles are indelibly burnt into my brain via my older brother and the wider culture.

Looking forward to this poll. Started listening to nowt but The Smiths this morning.

Strange ways...

Its mostly fine, but track one isn't the great start track that it should be, and 'Stop me' is dull so why it was backed to be a single I don't know: I guess its inoffensive..

'Paint' is all over the place, but in a good way.

I'd put it third out of the four but.

lol, "A Rush..." is one of the few songs on Strangeways that I like

UHHHH RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUSH

the lyrics aren't as relatable as those of my favorite Smiths songs

the switch in perspective in the lyrics is the best thing about it

yeah, the perspective switch is part of what makes Girl Afraid so good, too. might be in the top 3 of my ballot. it's so structurally sound and satisfying!

A Rush is probably my # 1, what is this madness

"Paint a Vulgar Picture" is my keeper from Strangeways, yeah. It's probably one of the Smiths songs that pops into my head the most these days.

One of the only two Smiths songs he sang when I saw him in '97.

Winnowing this down to 20 was difficult due to 10 different songs vying for the final two spots on my ballot

Can we vote for songs and not for albums? Or do we have to do both?

I'm skipping the albums part.

yeah me too, feel like it's pointless with such a small discography

did this quickly to avoid over-thinking

ballot sent to nate woolls

This Night Has Opened My Eyes >> every song on Meat is Murder >>>>>>>>>>>>> other 10 i picked

Album ballot is totally optional

I've got my list down to 25 songs. I'm surprised to find that right now I'm considering voting for up to seven songs from Strangeways. I don't even think of it as being their best album but so many of my favourites are on there, including my number one.

I knew that I got different things out of The Smiths from a lot of others who listened to them but it isn't until threads like this that I realize exactly how much of an outlier my Smiths fandom is.

DJP otm

I winnowed my list down to about 40, but I have no idea what to cut now.

how so DJP?

The lionization of Strangeways is the main thing bu also the repeated celebration of more placid/gentle numbers over angrier/louder ones; I like gentle Smiths as much as the next person but I LOVE "London"/"Shakespeare's Sister"/"Sweet and Tender Hooligan"/"The Queen Is Dead" Smiths and all the things that nod in the direction of faster/harder/more, plus my tipping point from "witty" into "overly precious" re: Morrissey's lyrics seems to be in a different spot for me than it is for others.

please don't let "How Soon is Now" take this.

"Just shut your mouth..."

if you love "I Started Something..." and "London" as much as I do, then we're OK. I don't have patience for "Back to the Old House," "Heaven Knows..." or many of the mewling older softer things.

I love "London", borderline HATE "I Started Something..."; it also pained me that I couldn't make space for "Back to the Old House" on my ballot

warning: i can prob vote in this so there will be at least one ballot w/ zero concern for production

Oooh I'd forgotten what a gorgeous track "Money Changes Everything" was

Bryan Ferry agreed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW2cNGs5wnk

It does have a Roxy-esque sleekness for sure

ballot sent!

still-unreleased BBC Peel session version of London kicks the hell out of the proper one IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3NkRMrxY58

lol i also love love love 'london', in high school our english teacher (or student teacher rather) gave us an assignment to write three poems and the day it was due i didn't have a third so just quickly scribbled the lyrics to 'london' down (knew them by heart). how i didn't get called out idk, esp as my other poems were these massive beat tomes (i should've scribbled down some lee renaldo lyrics instead).

still-unreleased BBC Peel session version of London kicks the hell out of the proper one IMO

otm. Never heard this version before; pretty amazing.

ha i like some of the droopy woozy gentle smiths numbers but i'm basically with you DJP in that i like them as an uptempo rock band. i don't need them to go super-hard (it's kinda cool that "london" is their one really, idk, thrashy song) but what hooked me were those ones where they sound like a rock band, where they justify the R.E.M. comparisons.

lol @ balls's "london" submission. brilliant. especially with "euston" sitting there - kind of a giveaway dontchathink?

It's funny you should say that, because sometimes when I listen to the debut album I often think to myself: "man, I wish this sounded as punchy as Chronic Town ..."

In fact, I'd take any '80s R.E.M. record over any Smiths record pretty much 100% of the time.

all of those songs appear in superior form on Hatful of Hollow

Arriving late to the thread, but this was OTM

REM fandom continues to be totally inscrutable to me. I was into them in high school but whenever I return to their catalog I find it very dull and monochromatic. No match for the inventiveness of Marr's playing and arrangements, much less Morrissey's wit and odd melodic sense.

http://i.imgur.com/RzTYDKm.jpg

32 years old today!

Anthrax covered "London" lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJfOB_spxZU

That's interesting considering this.

tbf I have very different feelings about Morrissey now than I did in the nineties too.

Ok so, in that AV Club piece his hate appears to be longstanding, so the Smiths cover definitely had to have been someone else's idea.

Morrissey has written a handful of indelible melodies - and the rest of them are plodding tuneless variations on each other. I've been trying to listen to their records in order for this poll but I keep having to come up for air about the time you'd flip the record over. ("Side B? Nah, let's put on some Thin Lizzy instead.")

The great songs are really, really great, though, and the interplay between Marr and whatshisname on bass is rarely less than absorbing. As a small-town North American teenager I always thought of them as an album band, but now I'm getting the sense that maybe the EP was their natural format & a large part of the reason for their huge success in the UK.

That's mostly OTM, I think. I loved this band so much when I was about 19, and the songs are burned into my brain, but I generally have to get past the singing when listening now.

oh no they're the ultimate compilation band

anyway I really intend to submit a ballot even though my smiths fandom expired at some point in college. it's been kind of a blast revisiting it all

I'm fascinated reading what contributors do for these polls. I choose random songs without relistening (most of the time).

tbh I've never spent much time with meat is murder. and I'm not revisiting the queen is dead it is burned into my memory

also sorry to add to the pro-strangeways talk but i'm surprised at how much more i'm enjoying it now

(i guess this is only answerable if you happen to think of specific sections of songs the moment you hear the title, but) when you think of "i know it's over", which is the first part you think of:

- the "...then why are you on your own tonight" couplets, or
- the "mother, i can feel the soil falling over my head" ending
- other?

it has two separate instantly classic sections, so amazing

Do you have something against "so easy to laugh, so easy to hate"?

Seriously, I don't know if there's one particular section that always comes to mind when I think of the song. There are a lot of classic moments: "as I cry into an empty bed, oh well, enough said" comes to mind too.

In doing some relistening for this poll, I was struck by how much less melodramatic "I Know It's Over" seemed compared to the last time I heard it. Then I realized it's because I am no longer 14 years old.

I Know It's Over followed by Never Had No-One Ever is the worst sequencing on a 'classic album' ever IMO.

^otm. So bad I even noticed it as a kid.

Yeah, that is absolutely spot on. I never understood why they were next to each other. I was never keen on Frankly following The Queen Is Dead either.

I assumed they were together because over/never is a slant rhyme.

Is it that you want the energy level to pick up after "I Know It's Over"? I feel that way sometimes. Or is it that it can't be over if you never had no one ever?

maybe the EP was their natural format & a large part of the reason for their huge success in the UK.

they never released an EP btw (apart from one of their Peel sessions)

CLIMB into an empty bed tbf

Whoops

For me it's just too much moping in a row (xpost)

Stipe (80s, early 90s) completely destroys Morrissey on the vocal melody front, its not even funny.

Crazy talk.

they never released an EP btw (apart from one of their Peel sessions)

Well, whatever you call those 12" records at 45 rpm with 3-5 songs on them that weren't generally on their full-length records, then. They seem to have released a couple of those.

I think of Morrissey almost as another instrument, because man, those layers of guitars and the rhythm section are really the stars. A song like "Girl Afraid" or "Heaven Knows," there are like 15 different guitar parts, and every time I put them on I like to focus on a different one.

It's pretty incredible how much they're *not* an album band, that they were churning out so much stuff so fast that differentiating between album and single seemed to be a matter of timing rather than strategy.

Lots of good stuff, but probably easier to narrow down than VU, I think.

on how many ballots will "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others" appear?

It's jostling for first on mine.

Yeah, I'll probably vote for it.

It's in my top 3.

Top 5

when you think of "i know it's over", which is the first part you think of

the opening "Ohh," followed by the part where i hit 'skip' twice

(sorry!)

on how many ballots will "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others" appear?

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, February 21, 2016 1:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

best song on Queen is Dead imo

The guitar on "Some Girls" is beautiful, but it's about half-spoiled for me by the arch frivolousness of the lyrics. ("Send me the pillow / the one that you dream on" is a nice line, but what's it got to do with the rest of the song?)

"I wrote this almost sublime, roaming, guitar-led piece of music once, and the next thing I knew it was called 'Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others'." Marr.

I kind of love that he stuck such goofy lyrics over that track. One of the Smiths' best qualities imo.

Yup

Voted.

"I wrote this almost sublime, roaming, guitar-led piece of music once, and the next thing I knew it was called 'Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others'." Marr.

― piscesx, Sunday, February 21, 2016

why I love it -- the music is gorgeous

One of the reasons why 'Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others' works so well is the gulf between the beauty of the music and the silliness of the lyric. It's one of my favourites easily.

I'm having a very hard time not putting most of The Queen Is Dead on my ballot. I like a lot of their other stuff, but that album is just so strong.

I tried not to overdo it with that album, but I think half of it still went on my ballot.

some albums are bigger than others!

I decided to go with the list upthread and to ignore the albums, turns out this way I like the Smiths way more I thought. I have more Hatful of Hollow than Queen is Dead iirc.

Kinda sad we aren't polling anything visual. They have great album covers throughout.

I love the photo from the back of The World Won't Listen, with the four girls who each look uncannily like a different member of the Smiths (for years I wondered if this was just my imagination, but then I read an interview with Marr where he said he'd noticed the same thing, and that he was sure it was intentional on Morrissey's part)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/28/27/d5/2827d5fdfbb96221a8c3a59be8f11f9c.jpg

Well, I always thought the third girl from the left could be Johnny's sis, but Who is who otherwise?

I'm guessing Rourke, Joyce, Marr, Mozzer

Balloot sent.

Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others is just... I was talking about it with Jon while we were riding yesterday morning, and I had their chronology screwed up in my head - I was convinced it was their last song on their last album, and that it was an amazing act of deliberate bathos and pathos at the same time. I love the Marr quote about how much he loved it and what Morrissey did to it.

The lyrics are daft and don't fit the tone of the music, and the vocal performance is ridiculous ("oh I saaaaaay" etc), but the sudden swing to what feels like genuine emotion when he sings the pillow line, which does fit the music, is so subtle and powerful. The frivolousness of most of the lyric and the lushness of the muysic is like the push-me-pull-you affect that you get with Public Enemy, where you're simultaneously attracted and repelled at the same time, a real tension in the dynamic. This is obviously written through a lot of The Smiths' music, but it reaches its apotheosis on SGABTO.

There's only really two tracks on The Queen Is Dead that I wouldn't consider voting for, and they're both pretty obvious low points of the record. Nevertheless, it remains the bands strongest "proper" studio LP by some distance. However, listening back through all of this stuff for the purpose of putting a ballot together, I kinda realised why I hardly ever find myself listening to a Smiths record these days. While some tracks have retained their potency for me, many more have either lost their power due to overplay, or at their worst just flat-out bore me. Also, many of these songs are so geared to a specific type of teenage mindset that they just don't push the same buttons anymore. 'I Know It's Over' might have floored me when I was 15 or 16 or something, but now I find the lyric hilarious in its OTT drama. Musically, too, I agree with whoever said above that Morrissey only really wrote a handful of indelible melodies. Basically, I found myself really wanting to listen to a vintage R.E.M. album instead: stronger melodies, stronger rhythm section, and I still connect with prime R.E.M. on an emotional level.

I didn't get TQID until I was 19/20, and so (almost) over that rush of adolescent melodrama that IKIO appeals to - but I've always found it's OTTness hilarious, and indeed that's The Smiths' strength to me, especially by the last couple of albums and singles surrounding - the melodrama is so strong and so spot-on and so knowing that it reads to me as both sincere empathy with and quite a knowing, biting satire of. "I know it's ludicrous and stupid to feel like this but I still do".

It's also nuts that you could fit The Smiths' entire career - from meeting to splitting - into the gap between the first and second Stone Roses albums.

Relistened to Strangeways yesterday. What a frustrating album! It's obvious that Moz really paid attention to writing better, more varied, more memorable melodies for this one, and I think in a lot of ways the songs are the best they ever did. But the mix (and even the arrangement) so heavily privileges the drums and vocals over the bass and guitars that nearly all the band's native charm is stripped away. So much reverb and washy synths, and so little highlife.

Totally unexpectedly, I got chills toward the end of "Paint a Vulgar Picture."

This countdown from a 2007 Uncut with comments from other musicians was an entertaining way to revisit 30 of the songs while I sort out my own list: http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-smiths-30-greatest-songs-as-chosen-by-the-band-and-their-famous-fans-6849

So weird, I would never vote Some Girls are Bigger. Especially since we are talking about albums, and coming after the truly sublime There is a Light it always struck me as a mostly perverse inclusion, from the fake fade in/out to the lyrics. Of course the guitar stuff is lovely and perfect, but I can think of no Smiths misfires that I would lay at the feet of Johnny Marr. All the guitar stuff is lovely and perfect.

Well, chordally and atmospherically "There is a Light" and "Some Girls" are of a piece. I like "Some Girls" as the tonic.

xp hey this is great yeah. i didn't know Uncut had some of their old features online.

What's kind of interesting is that "William It Was Really Nothing," "Please Please" and "How Soon is Now?" were apparently written the same weekend, with "William" coming first, "Please" written as the opposite in mood and tempo, and "How Soon?" written as a wacky rap-sampling, loopy experiment as a counter to the previous two. I love how transparent Marr is about his inspirations and writing process, and how that helps you fit together how things were composed. Like how "Heaven Knows" and "Girl Afraid" were written on the same guitar, the same day, or how many of his songs feature, say, the capo at the same spot and similar chord movements. But then some of his stuff is just sort of sui generis, like "This Charming Man" (Marr claims not to have heard any African music) or the ridiculous intro to "Girl Afraid."

is there a guitar nerd breakdown of Marr's parts/tunings/etc.? I remember looking around years ago and not coming up with anything.

He uses a lot. Like, How Soon is Nashville tuning plus I think a capo, with Half a Person and You Just Haven't Earned it Yet also Nashville. Lots of stuff with capo on 2nd or 4th frets. Tuning on Headmaster Ritual is open D with a capo that brings it to open E. Like I said, I think he's been pretty transparent about revealing his secrets. IIMO his arranging skills for guitar are unparalleled - seriously, how many guitar parts in Heaven Knows? - and he's one of only a handful of virtuosos on both electric and acoustic.

BTW, here's some nerd playing several of Heaven Knows' various parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CpJo8He7Zc

It's not for nothing that Marr named his son Nile.

I can't fault the way that Marr crafted his guitar parts, the way he layered up the numerous guitar parts on Smiths recordings is brilliant. A virtuoso he isn't, though, and to me there's always been a large gulf between how great people say he is and how great he actually is.

as someone who essentially knows nothing about music (and can hear what he knows even less), i've never cared about virtuoso skills in my listening

Oh, that's the wonderful thing about the Smiths. It's there if you want to hear it, but it's the songs that matter. And that's why I consider him a virtuoso (and really can't see how anyone could claim he's not, unless their standard is, like, a one-off like Richard Thompson). His playing is inspired and inventive and unimprovable, but he most importantly knows how to apply those skills to great songs, which is an entirely different skill set not beholden to instrumental ability. Again, invoking Nile Rodgers here, too.

"Nowhere Fast"! I forgot about this one.

hmm I thought Rodgers was a great arranger AND virtuoso (I don't care, just pointing it out).

Yeah, that's what I said! He and Marr are pretty simpatico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjiGcfKSLj0

Marr was always a "textural" guitarist as opposed to the type of guitarist that would batter you relentlessly over the head with technique, but even with that in mind I find him to be intensely overrated. He's a lo-calorie Andy Summers, if anything.

Hmm, I could maybe see that comparison, but then again, Andy Summers is massively creative/talented! I guess it all depends on where you are setting the bar.

The Police suck, the Smiths are awesome, Marr wins

Ok so I listen to Hatful and the debut back to back and I agree that all the Hatful recordings are significantly better except for This Charming Man, which I still think is vastly superior in the more uptempo debut version.

*listened

the only song I voted for where I indicated a version is Still Ill where the Hatful version rules so hard over the album v. rawer I guess? The vocal snarls more, better. Kinda reminds me of the Hi-Tone Sitting Still over the Murmur v

Wrong

Erm....xpost

"This Charming Man" is the only one where I can kind of see the argument that the S/T version is better but I still feel like I'm partially underwater when I listen to things on the S/T, to the point where I almost never play them to completion.

The debut version of Charming Man also has advantages that have nothing to do with sound quality, like the tempo, the different intro and Morrissey's classic "AAAH" ad-lib before the chorus.

I Want the One I Can't Have deserves honour for its keening melody and tragic arc

the first time I heard the S/T version of "This Charming Man" I thought Morrissey stepped on a tack in the recording booth

From the Mike Love thread, I've harvested the following:

Girlfriend in Point Loma
There is a Tide that Never Goes Out
Surfin' Little Children

and a new one: Some Curls are Bigger Than Others

..others?

"This Charming Man" is the only one where I can kind of see the argument that the S/T version is better but I still feel like I'm partially underwater when I listen to things on the S/T

This Charming Man is a good addition to the debut album because it shouldn't have been left off and it spices things up, but it's not from the album sessions at all, which is presumably why it sounds more invigorating than the other stuff. (Wikipedia says it was written especially for the Peel session, on the same night Marr, infuriatingly prodigious as ever, wrote Still Ill and Pretty Girls Make Graves.)

How Soon is Now being on some versions of Meat is Murder is an outrage, however.

Its what 'The world won't listen' is for.

Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Mike.

btw can we take a moment to appreciate how close M&M once were:

http://cdn3-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2013/10/Morrissey_Marr.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/karinsaccount/haldinhads-2.jpg

I get the impression they're mostly ok with each other, it's the other two that Morrissey really hates

The versions of "This Charming Man" and "Still Ill" on the s/t seem definitive to me. I find the Hatful versions of those to be comparatively enervated. Generally, I don't think the Smiths ever had great production. I can see why someone would want better fidelity on the s/t but, for a mid-80s indie record, I don't think it's so much of a problem as to get in the way.

there was definitely more to be had from some of those songs than the production and arrangements on the debut album let on, you can hear it in some of the outtakes and demos. Troy Tate version of Pretty Girls Make Graves maybe the prime example of this, taking a song that on the official record is kinda innocuous and turning it into this sinewy, sinister thing with doom and apocalypse seeping from the pores

Thinking about them in terms of production, I just put on Meat Is Murder. This might be the right spot, with better fidelity than the earliest work and without the dated gloss of what came later.

and self-produced, like TQID.

The jaunty numbers on Meat Is Murder sound great to me - the rhythm section on "What She Said" in particular. I always associate that song with a guy I worked with at the UGA libraries - balls knows who I'm talking about - who was the lead singer and bassist in a local band, and who also did what I remember as being a one-off Smiths cover band gig, and the whole time leading up to it he was really stoked about the bass parts on that one and, I think, Rusholme Ruffians? So I'm kinda fond of those tracks in part because I can picture them as ones a band would sincerely enjoy playing.

Some time later there was a confusing incident where one of our manager's kids got a minor cut on his forehead at school when another kid accidentally broke a window by throwing a magnet at it. Our manager was, following a phone call with a mutual friend, somehow convinced that this happened because glass itself contains magnets, predisposing it to being broken in this way. We attempted to convince her that this wasn't so, to no avail. Immediately after she left for the day, bassist coworker stridently proclaimed: A CUT ON THE HEAD / Is what you get from a magneeeeet...

I'm giving 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before' another listen, now this is a track that has still retained its potency for me. It's all about the way that intro comes charging/thundering in before giving way to the first verse. Brilliant song. Mark Ronson had a good go at trying to ruin it with that awful version of it, but the original comes across to me as being one of their finest songs. Great recording, too, really powerful and punchy.

I fucking love Brian Jones' solo on "Stop Me...."

good use of those synth chimes so prevalent in the eighties

It's the standout of Strangeways, Here We Come for me, although I think 'Death of a Disco Dancer' is massively underrated.

I've never been a fan of solo Morrissey and always thought of Stop Me as basically a Viva Hate track (maybe because of the Moz-centric video?) but listening to it now for the poll it suddenly feels like a perfect song. But Disco Dancer will always be my favorite from that album, I can't think of anything else in their catalog like it. Isn't Moz credited for playing the (shitty) piano on it? So good.

Its the only time he's played an instrument on disc. The autobiography bit about it is funny.

Hey Mr Wools, when is the deadline for this?

Just pointing out that it's a Leap Year this year so March 1st is actually the Tuesday.

Ah ok. Deadline is midnight Tuesday then.

really love morrissey's vocal performances on strangeways esp disco dancer and a rush.

my love for how soon is now? only enhanced by the story told on some peel doc. i saw where john walters (peels producer) claims that when he heard the first line he said "ah...the elements..a good start".

think i prefer rusholme ruffians 'rank' version rather than 'queen' one, and what she said for that matter.

think i prefer rusholme ruffians 'rank' version rather than 'queen' 'meat is murder' one, and what she said for that matter.

― pandemic, Tuesday, February 23, 2016 1:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i saw where john walters (peels producer) claims that when he heard the first line he said "ah...the elements..a good start".

Yeah, I thought that was the line, first time, too. Until the second line, of course..

and what she said for that matter

I heard the Rank version first* so was a bit disappointed when I heard the real version off MIM as it missed out the intro and ending. Then later on I heard Rubber Ring and realised what they'd actually done.

*I heard everything in the wrong order: The Smiths / Hatful Of Hollow poll

http://40.media.tumblr.com/a26c0273161f5d00328a033505c4cb4f/tumblr_o31gw4qaYt1qz4h04o1_500.jpg

I dunno, this is a strong top three.

There's a mandolin on 'William, It Was Really Nothing'!?

lol @ The Bass Guitar and The Drums

why isn't Morrissey The Voice. "I play The Voice!"

Yeah, you'd think that he'd be incredibly keen on that!

Imagine the alternate timeline wherein it's Morrissey who runs off with Blake Shelton.

this is leading me to imagine Morrissey singing "Hella Good"

curse you. curse you and your wretched ways.

it's odd to think that Marr was only 23 when the Smiths split up.

people who have kept up with Marr's career, has he been involved in anything good since the last Electronic album in 1999? I've not listened to those solo albums

actually, I like Release by the Pet Shop Boys and that was 2002

I basically like the Modest Mouse album he was on but for most of it you kinda barely notice he's there. ''Missed the Boat'' is one of their best post-Lonesome-Crowded-West songs though.

His first truly solo album The Messenger was really good, but I haven't listened to the second one.

Anyone heard his work in the Clams or the Crambs or the Cribs or whatever?

There's a mandolin on 'William, It Was Really Nothing'!?

No, it's on Please Please Please

A thorough guide to their catalog, not too xpensive on Kindle: Songs That Saved Your Life: The Art of The Smiths 1982-87 - Simon Goddard

yeah it's really good that book. the first edition had loads of mistakes in it, the later ones benefited from Marr's involvement.

32 ballots in so far, not bad but could always do with more.

There's usually a last minute flurry with these things, isn't there?

yeah usually, there's still a few days to go, plenty of time for more ballots to come in

Will get mine in over the weekend. I'm hovering at 17 songs, with about 10 fighting for the last 3 slots.

I'll be sending one in for sure this weekend as well, and same boat as tipsy - 18 for sure, a handful vying for the last two.

I'll just throw a ballot together the night before the deadline or something. I can't really see this one being particularly difficult.

Will get mine in over the weekend. I'm hovering at 17 songs, with about 10 fighting for the last 3 slots.

I also have a Top 17 at the moment with another 17 competing for the final 3

I feel like I will get booed mightily if I reveal any of the songs I considered but left off of my ballot

was "Frankly Mr Shankly" your #1 or #2?

lol you will not get me to show my cards that easily

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=250880.0

fyi only three songs on the list I posted haven't received a single vote so far BUT WHICH THREE?

that's actually almost as interesting as what will be most popular. i know even the few songs i don't like have their fans so i would struggle to guess. at least one has to be an instrumental right? draize train not on any comps seems like a reasonable guess. maybe other non-comp tracks like wonderful woman the actually deserving i keep mind hidden

32 ballots in so far, not bad

this is actually pretty high turnout for tracks polls afaik - and there's bound to be a bunch more last minute ones (incl mine lol)

I have 20 songs. The order might be a little arbitrary but I'll send a ballot to rep for those. It's been interesting catching up as it turns out my real-time engagement with their albums ended around MiM.

Yeah, the Spacemen 3/Spiritualized one barely had 20 if I remember correctly which made me (feel so) sad

yeah I think most tracks polls hover around 20

32 + the weekend turnout is a nice haul of ballots. I'll do mine tonight or tomorrow.

fyi only three songs on the list I posted haven't received a single vote so far BUT WHICH THREE?

I really REALLY hope one of them is "Unhappy Birthday"

(I know it isn't but still)

I never realized they had some many demos and things on Youtube. This Rusholme Ruffians demo is great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACH4yAOhkKs

You should be able to find a demo "album" on the net. I can't listen to DOADD now without whistling at the end

It's tempting to think of where The Smiths would have gone next if Marr hadn't left the band and they'd split up. Marr in particular seemed to be keen to move away from their earlier, janglier sound and Strangeways, Here We Come reflects this, and it's interesting to think of what they would have done had they continued down this path.

I don't find that thought experiment particularly fruitful because I started with Strangeways... and decided it was the most boring thing they released as I became more familiar with their back catalog.

Having said that, wasn't the lyric to 'Bengali In Platforms' written during the very, very late stages of The Smiths? Probably just as well that the catalogue wasn't tainted with that one.

In a fruitless search for a TQID demo, I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfYy1RcuN54

Like the Velvets' "What Goes On," this is one of those songs I always wanted to keep going, and now it does!

An idea of what post-Smiths Marr demos were like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0fExLvMwmg

Kirsty MacColl's "Walking Down Madison" is one of his best post-Smiths tracks.

I know he was still with The Smiths at the time, but I still quite like what he added to Billy Bragg's Talking With The Taxman About Poetry. 'The Marriage' in particular.

My fave post-Smiths Johnny Marr magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3t5nmgRVMs

He (and Kirsty!) are even in the video.

I always forget what he did with the Pretenders, though.

I've been on ILX so long that I don't know if I first heard it here, or told it here, or done the latter multiple times, but the Marr "Walking Down Madison" story is great. I guess he made that demo and just sent it to Kirsty for her opinion, and she basically sent it back the next day more or less finished as we know it.

well i can't do this poll and the film one

I prefer the Ye Olde Original mix of "Walking Down Madison," not the album version; the former is what I heard on college radio and is a lot more aggressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irgsx58SkJI

Weirdly, for all she's been reissued, boxed and remastered, that version is only on one random comp.

How underrated is Andy Rourke's contribution to the sound of this band? There's great bass playing all over these records, and 'Barbarism Begins at Home' wouldn't be anywhere near the same without his presence.

I was thinking as I listened back to my ballot choices that the bass playing was outstanding across the board on the songs I picked.

He really comes into his own on Meat Is Murder, some sterling bass work all throughout that album.

I think the rhythm section is massively underrated and actually pretty muscular, possibly my first exhibit when people (stupidly) dismiss the Smiths as wimpy.

I've been going down the Marr-hole, and speaking of not wimpy, here is him and the Pretenders covering the Stooges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9L1SYU93d8

And here with the Pretenders and Tom Jones, too, covering solo Iggy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6iuXtFagpQ

They do sound weedy on the debut, though. I remember the first time I heard The Smiths... the first thing you hear on the whole record is that really basic, thin-sounding Mike Joyce drum pattern and it sounded really weedy to my ears, nothing like the ferocious, pounding, relentless opening to The Queen Is Dead at all.

so weedy then

The rhythm section sound as muscular as Josh describes from Meat Is Murder onwards, but the production of the debut album doesn't really do most of the band any favours. Only Marr really comes out of it sounding good, and even then his guitar sounds really tinny on 'You've Got Everything Now' ... the live renditions of 'Miserable Lie' really feel as though they kick into a whole new gear when the fast section comes in, but on the studio version it sounds like a mess IMO.

Yeah, it's overwhelmingly a production thing. They'd unveiled plenty of pretty muscular ("Hand In Glove", "Handsome Devil") and/or rhythmically eccentric ("Accept Yourself", "Pretty Girls...") compositions to that point. Quite some distance from, say, The Field Mice.

Voted.

I love the way Morrissey's voice cracks up on 'The Queen Is Dead' ... "I swear to God, I swear I never even know what drugs whuuurrrr" ... and they kept the take!

sent in my ballot

I don't actually love this band. I like them, but they never really spoke directly to me. But inspired by the thread I picked up Songs That Saved Your Life mentioned above, and it's wonderful, even for a non-super-fan. I'm going through their catalog now while reading about each track(I've heard most of their songs, but often don't know the names). I didn't know anything about Taste of Honey, etc. I might end up with a ballot after all.

The Smiths were never not a weedy band. They never even approached Don Gehman-era REM in terms of 'muscularity'

That's nonsense.

No it isn't

They are a lot more 'mannered' in their rocking compared to REM.

Battle of the world's skinniest strongmen.

Is there anyone watching this thread who fancies helping me out with some graphics for the rundown? I don't have either the talent or the time to do it myself.

One thing from the book that's really effecting the way I hear their songs now: the musical influences (which in retrospect are obvious) had completely flown over my head because of the vocals. It seems like every other song is inspired by or a rip of something by T. Rex, NY Dolls, Stooges, Rolling Stones, etc. I listen now and you can't miss it, but it had never remotely occurred to me because the vocals and production/arrangements distract so much. The bit where Marr talks about intentionally referencing the song that the Velvets referenced on There She Goes Again was one of my favorite parts.

Is there anyone watching this thread who fancies helping me out with some graphics for the rundown? I don't have either the talent or the time to do it myself.

― nate woolls, Sunday, February 28, 2016 6:41 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I potentially could, but it might delay the start of the rollout by a day.

That wouldnt be a problem, would be a great help.

Great, just send me a list of the results once you have them and I'll get the images done asap.

Will do, thanks a lot!

When is this actually ending? The 29th or the 1st?

Midnight UK Tuesday

So that's midnight of the 1st, sorry

Or evening time on the 29th in the States. Thanks!

Just sent my ballot, after much brow-furrowing over the #20 spot. Finally just had to hit "send" a be done with it!

I can't believe 'This Night Has Opened My Eyes' hasn't been mentioned at all itt. Along with the Meat is Murder LP, I think that song is far and away the best thing they ever did. Even more remarkable that the canonical version was done in one take for a radio show. Did anybody else place it high in their ballots?

It was in my top 10.

Top 5 for me.

The only song besides How Soon Is Now? that I want to win this poll

ballot sent

surprised thart joke isn't funny anymore hasn't had more chat here

that's the only Meat Is Murder song I voted for, and even considered voting for (including a song on the US version of the album that others enjoy a lot)

Sending ballot. I included "Barbarism Begins at Home."

If anyone has sent a ballot and not had some kind of response from me, please shout out in this thread!

Eyeball Kicks - your ballot only had 19 songs, I did email you but haven't had a reply yet.

Fixed that now, thanks!

Voted

voted

I voted too.

Sent!

i was unable to do this.

Ballot sent.

back in the states with internet again. jet-lagged ballot sent!

i was unable to do this.

Ballot sent.

SENT

oh!! finishing up my ballot now!!

I have to cut 2 songs and am finding it impossible

shit shit shit i forgot about this til just now

^sung to the tune of "please please please let me get what I want "

Ok, tore the band-aid off. Ballot sent.

hahah

VOTED. that was surprisingly quick to come together, even allowing for some preliminary winnowing last week. One of those bands where I really do know the catalog well enough to do this just going on song names in an Excel sheet. Though there's large chunks of the ballot that I could imagine going in a totally different order on a different day/in a different mood. At #21 and #22: "Stretch Out and Wait" and "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others." The former hasn't ever been truly among my favorite Smiths songs, but the "Two icy-cold hands conducting a wave / That's the Eskimo blood in my veins" bit gets stuck in my head all the fucking time.

Glad others are enjoying the book I recommended. I've reconsidered some tracks, though I don't think my list changed much. For example --

"Often cited by Marr as one of his favourite Smiths tracks and the focal point of Meat Is Murder for many critics, "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" had come together during the soundchecks...

...Technically, its climactic deluge of cooing guitar streams soaked in reverse-reverb, cardiac drum rumbles (Joyce's best performance on a Smiths track up to that point) and Morrissey's ethereal howls, among the most heartrending vocals he'd ever record, was a remarkable feat of production for their first turn behind the mixing console. Its false fade-out at 3:50, a playful homage to the ending of Elvis Presley's 'Suspicious Minds,' was another inspired twist suggested by engineer Stephen Street."

Great stuff, but still didn't make my top 20. I voted earlier today.

Reading Hexagon gig, when they broke into 'I've seen it happen..' the light show burst a plasma sheet over the audience, which visibly impressed Johnny Marr.

Voted.

Also found it extremely difficult to choose just 20 songs

Anyone know what the highest amount of ballots received for one of these polls is?

Heartened to see some love for "This Night...". High ranking on my ballot too!

Anyone know what the highest amount of ballots received for one of these polls is?
Bowie got around 80, but that may not be the highest.

77* ballots is a fantastic turnout! But not quite a record -- Bowie got 80.

― WilliamC, Wednesday, April 2, 2014 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Another new thing I learned is that among other things, Marr was inspired by Gun Club's cover of Creedence's "Run Through The Jungle" from their Miami (1981) album for "How Soon Is Now."

https://youtu.be/AxAVXsT1mss

Man, "How Soon ..." is such a mess of influences and rips, from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X86qgsDL_4k
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfeP9yN0gs8
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWktWubMqQo

And Sandy Denny's "Blackwaterside"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ccZOGwijGQ

oh lol whoops i forgot about this

Still plenty of time to vote! Midnight tonight officially although I'll be in bed by then so the cut-off is probably going to be more like 8 tomorrow morning.

oh cool!

no rush, but any general estimates on when the rollout might start? really looking forward to this one

a rush and a push, please!

I'm not sure, Johnny Fever has kindly offered to do some graphics for the rundown so that could take a few days, I can start with the albums tomorrow afternoon / evening though.

couldn't wrap my head around albums for these guys but i was mildly surprised to see how well strangeways did o my ballot. iirc it was considered a "disappointment" at the time...?

I only voted for one song from Strangeways, though I think a bunch more stuff from it would have turned up if there were 10 more slots.

Revisiting Strangeways, seems like there's a real drop-off between Side A & B, no?

Between?

I don't know, I think there are terrible songs pretty evenly distributed across the whole thing

I think the first 6 songs are all good to great. And then...

side 2 is better

oh shit I just realized I left Last Night I Dreamt Somebody Love Me off my ballot!

fuck

Have not received confirmation of receipt of ballot, do I need to re-send?

Unless you sent it in the last 4 hours or so, yes send it again. Put Smiths in the subject so my inbox rules pick it up.

i voted believe it or not

this is unbelievably difficult

I don't know, I think there are terrible songs pretty evenly distributed across the whole thing

― its subtle brume (DJP), Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:54 PM

otm

For those of you stuck: look at LTB, pick nine or ten songs, look at the other albums, pick out nine or ten songs.

I sent a ballot but it was pretty much impossible for me to feel confident in choosing the 20, and even more difficult to rank them.

For those of you stuck: look at LTB, pick nine or ten songs, look at the other albums, pick out nine or ten songs.

i want the ballot i can't have, and it's driving me mad

^^^ stop me if you think you've heard this one before

Just dashed off a ballot and sent it in. Thanks for doing this!

voted!

Singles > Louder Than Bombs

2-Disc The Sound of The Smiths lords over all.

Comparing best-ofs to albums and comps isn't really fair imo

never gotten the point of those later comps (well, besides money obv), the catalog isn't daunting and none of them have done an interesting or definitive job

ha yeah exactly. and there's still a bunch of stuff missing even from 'the complete' box sets and such. it's such a poorly preserved back catalogue.

I bought the Australian double vinyl version of The World Won't Listen thinking it did a p good job at collecting the non album stuff, does it not?

Looked it up and at 28 tracks I'm p sure it does, don't know how widely available it is nowadays (going for a fair amount on Discogs)

Is the Australian version different from other pressings?

World won't listen has a very similar tracklist to Louder than bombs, it's just that the handful of LTB exclusives are better than the WWL exclusives. But they're both great collections. It's just that you probably wouldn't want to own both unless you're a completist, and if you were only going to own one, you might as well go with LTB

Stretch Out and Wait on LTB > Stretch Out and Wait's bizarre and not as nice outtake version on TWWL

LTB wins

Wait what is on TWWL that isn't on anything else?

The Australian version's much longer, but maybe the current worldwide issue's the same. Def weird there isn't a definitive non album material comp xpost

XP from wiki:

However, The World Won't Listen contains two songs that do not appear on Louder Than Bombs: the single version of "The Boy with the Thorn in His Side" and the single edit of "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore." Additionally, The World Won't Listen contains different versions of two songs that would appear on Louder Than Bombs: "Stretch Out and Wait" features an alternate vocal and "You Just Haven't Earned It Yet, Baby" appears in a slightly different and longer mix. Also of note is the fact that "Ask" appears on both The World Won't Listen and Louder Than Bombs in a slightly different and longer mix than its single version.

I think those exclusives have reappeared on the hits comp of yr choosing.

For those of you stuck: look at LTB, pick nine or ten songs, look at the other albums, pick out nine or ten songs.

I believe that's the exact math of my ballot.

i think i voted for 1/2 of meat is murder, about the same number of songs as I voted for on LTB

just remembered that in high school my go-to song to play while getting ready to go out for some social activity was Headmaster Ritual which now seems ... problematic

The Australian version's much longer, but maybe the current worldwide issue's the same.

Yeah, I think that double LP TWWL might have been replaced by the more familiar tracklisting by the time of the first death of vinyl. I only recall laying eyes on it once. It's probably not that much more common than the Education In Reverse version of Viva Hate, that other Aus oddity.

:D

"Note that there is a mispress of this release, with a The World Won't Listen sleeve, and labels from Record 1, but with the vinyl pressed from a George Harrison album;
George Harrison - Cloud Nine."

Just learnt for the first time that the rest of the world got a stingy version of World Won't Listen, sucks 2 b u

(I taped World off a bigger boy at school and bought Strangeways myself. This is a p good précis of the Smiths that doesn't make you think Strangeways is a weak album.)

yeah i thought i was pretty well versed but that version of TWWL is new to me.

fyi only three songs on the list I posted haven't received a single vote so far BUT WHICH THREE?

― nate woolls, Friday, February 26, 2016 6:55 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wondering if this is still the case now voting has closed or if everything they recorded got at least one nod.

I came close to including 'Golden Lights' and 'Work Is A Four Letter Word' on my ballot but they both just missed out, now I'm worried that one or both of them will have received zero votes

(I know the story about 'Work Is A Four Letter Word' apparently being the final straw that persuaded Marr to quit, but those two tracks make me wish that the Smiths had stayed together to do an entire LP of 60s brit chanteuse covers)

I think that Australian double album TWWL is the only LP that has "The Draize Train"

(Rank? That's a live version)

Australian double album TWWL doesn't appear to have 'Money Changes Everything' which was on the UK cassette version of the album (but not on the UK LP), can only assume that someone at Rough Trade got off on upsetting Smiths completists

Nope, there were two songs left that didn't get a single vote

xxxp

i'm guessing "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" and "This Charming Man"

lol

"Jeane"?

no, I voted for Jeane

me too

Death At One's Elbow?

Oscillate Wildly

xp - i voted for it

I'm bored, I'm going to run down the albums tonight

I voted for Oscillate Wildly too

hrah!

I put Oscillate Wildly as #1 on my ballot.

just posting the link to the rollout here for those who use bookmarks, because i hadn't realized it started:

IF IT'S NOT LOVE THEN IT'S THE POLL THAT WILL BRING US TOGETHER - ILM Artist Poll #72 - THE SMITHS - RESULTS THREAD

Thanks.

P sure I voted for "Jeane". Did anyone vote for "Golden Lights"?

I actually like Golden Lights and didn't realize it was so despised until recently. But I didn't vote for it.

aw man is 'golden lights' despised? i didn't vote for it cuz i already had 11 ltb tracks and trust me that took some paring down but i do like 'golden lights', i like moz's vocals on it and i always always have time for kirsty. i guess i could understand ppl not voting for a cover.

It was probably "Work is a four letter word"

That was one of them, yes.

Ooh,bonus point to me.

I'll go for both: 'What's the world'

Bingo!

Eeeeee

i hope The Draize Train places.

Wonder how many songs got zero votes?

With 80 ballots and only 70 odd songs I can't imagine there's many

Just the two: Work is a Four Letter Word & What's The World

Ah, I thought they were the ones you'd voted for that no-one else had.