Frank Ocean, 'Boys Don't Cry'

At long, long last.

maybe he's learned to sing better

I always feel insane when I remember he came up with Odd Future.

for some reason in the wake of stuff like D'Angelo's return and Kendrick and Chance and Maxwell I... kinda don't give a fuck about this guy anymore?

not to mention that in 2012 Miguel, Usher, Keyshia Cole, and Jeremih had all released more consistent material.

for some reason in the wake of stuff like D'Angelo's return and Kendrick and Chance and Maxwell I... kinda don't give a fuck about this guy anymore?

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, August 2, 2016 12:28 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

i only listen to three artists too fuck..........

I have limited resources of $$$ and attention so yes I narrow things down

great thread guys

great album

jk

https://pics.onsizzle.com/Instagram-Frank-Oceans-new-album-track-list-1ee277.png

lol

so where is it

so many goofy roll-outs this year

honestly dude should've never given any sort of release date. ppl would still wonder but no one would be mad bc no one would've had prior expectations of its existence, a la d'angelo.

at least the conversation topic is no longer "i don't care about this dude because usher exists"

lol it more or less still is on certain parts of twitter, believe you me

http://pitchfork-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/content/Slack%20for%20iOS%20Upload-1.png.jpeg

https://twitter.com/SociaIizing/status/761652809645322240

This album is never coming out

honestly dude should've never given any sort of release date

did he ever actually give a release date?

no, just the new york times iirc

i mean people were more or less leaving him alone to do the album on his own schedule for almost 3 years after Channel Orange before he put up a tumblr post in april of last year implying that it was coming out in july, which a FO rep confirmed to billboard. so yeah he set off all this stuff himself, even if the reaction has been ridiculous.

in all likelihood it is imminent because apple music (one assumes? hopes?) would not have shelled out the exclusivity agreement money plus the funding for this bizarro livestream without some reasonable assurance that it would come out sometime after the whole art project. but it'll come out at some entirely arbitrary moment.

yeah Frank Ocean would never take a large sum of money from a corporation and then just not deliver what he agreed to give them

http://pitchfork.com/news/54297-frank-ocean-to-chipotle-fuck-off/

from what i've heard apple expected to have the album by friday & is baffled/frustrated that he didn't deliver it

if he does Apple like he did Chipotle he truly is the new God

Jimmy Iovine frantically redialing Frank's number all morning.

yeah Frank Ocean would never take a large sum of money from a corporation and then just not deliver what he agreed to give them

http://pitchfork.com/news/54297-frank-ocean-to-chipotle-fuck-off/
--Best Beloved Trump-Pence (some dude)

a jingle for an ad campaign is, ah, substantially different from an album that (you'd think) he was going to make anyway, but w/e

but if he returns the check and is like fuck y'all, then there you go

i was joking, i don't think he's really gonna not deliver the album. just saying, Frank has a history of 'i play by my own rules' shenanigans.

so where is it

over there

go listen to Fantasia, people.

you mean franktasia

this is happening

http://boysdontcry.co/

A play-by-play for this is kind of hard because it's all a shapeless blur...

oh ffs frankie

actual music is playing

it sounds...pretty good?

I've been meaning to fuck with you on ILM

I'm watching the terminator

feel like frank would want it this way

there's some really good stuff in here but alas ilm is over the man another casualty of 2016 rip

idk I think I can wait until he's not drilling over playback

sometimes i'm not sure who ilm isn't over (except, inexplicably tbh, the 1975)

Be careful on that scaffolding, Frank!

"it" is on Apple Music now

Rolling Stone has confirmed that Endless is a different project from Boys Don't Cry, the singer's highly-anticipated follow-up to 2012's Channel Orange. Apple will release that album this weekend.

lol at the last track of this

lol @ how do I crop your new bitch out my vine

"Ugh, this sounds like James Blake or something." * Reads an article, finds out it was recorded with James Blake :( *

i'm enjoying endless a great deal. it's bleak and wintry and lonely, and frank is the fire that keeps you warm

does he build a bonfire out of that staircase

i hope he installs a guiderail to go along with it

It sounds OK. Got kind of a demo-y quality to it. Kind of like his spin on a JJ mixtape? There's a place for it but it's hard to get too excited knowing there's a (presumably) real album just around the corner.

that closing track though :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

The first of today's many annoyances: a certain publication named Frank Ocean a singer-songwriter and Jazmine Sullivan an "R&B performer."

I'm already seeing "brilliantly confounding" and "gorgeous mystery." I'm homicidal already.

i think the album's good but that's certainly a reach lol

i guess i'm halfway through this and dude doubled down on the aspects of him i found least interesting i.e. fragmentary songs tied together by a kind of "stream of consciousness" design. hope the "album" is meatier

this feels entirely useless to me outside the isley cover

the fake kraftwerk song at the end that i think is shaming me for having a phone, that one's fun

nm that's apparently a song by wolfgang tillmans

i thought using that song was a bit of a self-own on frank's part, but who knows

I'm already seeing "brilliantly confounding" and "gorgeous mystery." I'm homicidal already.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, August 19, 2016 12:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

imo that sort of overpraise was way too predictable to be mad at

the brilliantly confounding self-own

self-own = cell phone. hm

you used to call me on my self-own

The first of today's many annoyances: a certain publication named Frank Ocean a singer-songwriter and Jazmine Sullivan an "R&B performer."

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, August 19, 2016 11:59 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf these are derived from the artists, JS has always been comfortable being called R&B, FO hasn't

yes he transcends R&B

Transcends it into sweet nothingness.

I tried listening to this while hangry and almost threw away my phone.

you used to call me on my self-own

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 19 August 2016 17:26 (1 hour ago) Permalink

LOL

I wrote about it
http://time.com/4460139/frank-ocean-visual-album-endless/

So... there's a video with naked women on horses and tits being sucked now.

http://www.thefader.com/2016/08/20/frank-ocean-nikes-video

http://pitchfork.com/news/67679-frank-ocean-drops-new-album-blonde-listen/?mbid=social_facebook

It's go

it's no

I love the guitar arrangement/layering on "Ivy."

That list of contributors though.

Could have done without that minute and a half rant against weed on track 4. Kills a vibe.

That list of contributors though.

― Popture

well, I did hear "Here, There, and Everywhere" and Andre 3000.

Could have done without that minute and a half rant against weed on track 4. Kills a vibe.

weird, feel like weed is one of the only ways to access frank's songs

second track on this is the best frank ocean song I've ever heard

yup

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/BlondeAlternate_-_Frank_Ocean.jpeg/900px-BlondeAlternate_-_Frank_Ocean.jpeg

franklife

well, it could still need some proper songs.

lol @ the proper album being just as nothingy as the demos or whatever they were

also HE CAN'T SING

oh god the technophobe facebook interlude

lonny can sing
https://youtu.be/bTjEGP-TnSA

Did anyone see on the list of guest musicians Fish and Anthony Phillips??...about the most interesting thing about the album unfortunately...On first listen 'Siegfried' was the only thing that stuck and that was written years ago...will probably go back to it but not in a hurry...

is it just me or is this album terribly mastered

i like this better than channel orange but it'd only have to display the slightest animation for me to do that. all of the songs basically have one structure, i.e. start off in a place really ugly and unsettling and slowly get pretty. way too many nothing interludes, and having andre in the center makes the two halves seem duller than they are

I really like "nights, "ivy" and "good guy" so far, about halfway through rn

thus far the only novel criticism of it I've seen is coming from brad's points in this thread, lol most everything else positive or negative - particularly negative - is predictable as hell

maybe my speakers are breaking but the high synth tones in "siegfried" are making them vibrate in a really unpleasant, ear-splitting way and i guess the way to make me not want to listen to an album again is to master it so uncarefully that parts of it hurt to hear

Here's what I wrote on a certain critic's wall last night:

...too monochromatic, too reliant on strumming; he's importing hip-hop (e.g. Andre 3000) into introspective material beholden to a private argot of heartbreak. I listened and waited for a tempo change, any change (maybe I wasn't listening close enough). He's closer to John Legend than his bros Earl Sweatshirt and co. but w/no interest in arenas.

xp I haven't gotten to that song yet and am listening on fancy headphones, we'll see. as for the sound in general it's pretty but also kinda...thin I guess? is that part of what you mean? definitely not enough low end.

oh yeah the record as a whole is super trebly and glassy

the first two songs are the best imo, possibly because the rest of the so-called tunes follow their template

i like "nights" a lot

Did anyone see on the list of guest musicians Fish and Anthony Phillips??

Wait, hold on, as in the former Marillion singer and the long-departed Genesis cofounder? He should have asked Steven Wilson in for a UK-prog-through-the-generations trifecta.

Think I would of been more excited by Kerry Minear of Gentle Giant or Richard Sinclair of Caravan but still strangest guest credits of the year if true...

Contributors for Frank Ocean's Physical Blond Album
Andre3000
Anthony Phillips
Arca
Beatles
Benjamin Wright
Beyoncé Knowles Carter
Bob Ludwig
Brian Eno
Buddy Ross
Caleb Levan
Christophe Chassol
David Bowie
Elliot Smith
Fish
Gang of Four
James Blake
Jamie Xx
Jason Lader
Jazmine Sullivan
Jeff Ellis
Joe Visciano
Jonny Greenwood
Kanye West
Kendrick Lamar
Kim Burrell
Kohh
Loota
Malay
Matt Mysko
Mike Dean
Michael Uzowuru
Om’mas Keith
Pharrell Williams
Rick Rubin
Rostam batmanglij
Sam Petts-Davies
Sean Oakley
Sebastian
Space Man
Tom Elmhirst
Tyler, the Creator

Might be samples??...

you forgot young lean

oh yeah, my C&P must have got cut off

apologies to Yung Lean and 88 Keys

sorry if keeping 'pink & white' and leaving the rest is basic but that's how being otm be sometimes

if any trace of songwriting or interesting sound is present on the last three tracks let me know, i gave up the slog

haha lol me too

actually no i walked away the first time within 5 seconds of andre 3k's appearance (fuck you andre) and then when i returned to it there followed the "did u hear kevin shields rly likes drum n bass" number and then the facebook frog and then i truly was done

It's hard to know what to care about; I don't know what he's singing about, he doesn't compel me to care what he's singing about, ugh.

It was...okay, I guess. Much like the last album. Heard that once and went "I suppose" and never went back to it, and I kinda figure that'll happen with me and this one.

'pink & white' is the most channel orangey which prob runs counter to some criticism i would have made of that album at the time but in mitigation it does check its dubiously priced coat in vaguely near to scritti's with the "showed me love / glory from above"

which is not about his beloved peeing on him, I suppose

probably the only thing tempting me to return is that i still have no idea what this album is about and what it's saying beyond being generally pinteresting (not saying this doesnt exist or is neglible just it didnt come across). channel o i got immediately otoh and beefed w/ it in dialogue

Channel Orange had some songs. This has... idk

suspect the crine rodman cover facepalm may live longer in the culture than the songs

Channel Orange had some songs. This has... idk

― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Sunday, August 21, 2016 6:20 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this has a list of cool collaborators

from the Rolling Stone review: "In fact, it is so meditative that there are few beats at all."

A few songs in and I'm not feeling this. The melodies are pretty, but the tracks sound like demos. Dude should've waited another four years if that's what it would've taken to get the levels right.

Dude might've gotten a little too high on his own supply.

idk, i could hear this as a product of procrastination just as equally as a couple of bits he had lying about that he spent indolent indulgent years artfully stonewashing and fraying the seams of just so

the trap is to care at all. maybe that's the point

so what you're saying is i should wait until I cop a new stonewashed jean jacket for the autumn or nah

(to buy/listen to this album i mean)

I heard this eating lunch in some hipster place in Hudson today after a 2-day airport/hotel journey, fried and exhausted, and it sounded absolutely perfect in that context, even the weed rant

in mitigation it does check its dubiously priced coat in vaguely near to scritti's with the "showed me love / glory from above"

hm gonna have to revisit this one

the trap is to care at all

isn't it always

alright treeship calm down. no i meant for an artist who trades specifically in ambivalence/apathy/fleeting fraught intensities

'pink & white' is just as much the usual n.e.r.d & theology as anything else, i realise, but pickings are slim

alright treeship calm down

i won't stand for this

i do hear the scritti tho, sort of a hook that could've appeared on anomie

the trap is to keep on breathiing

it's a concept album about how his mom told him not to smoke weed but fuck u mom

tbh i think "ivy" sounds like an outtake from to record only water for ten days, and imo frank loves rhcp

guess you can't work in the L.A. scene w/out admitting to liking them. Maybe it was the same re Jackson Browne in 1985.

I'm listening again and a few of the songs are starting to stand out, like Ivy, Self Control, and Pink + White. But the bulk of it remains a hookless morass.

At least John Mayer isn't on these albums.

I'm happy with 3 good songs.

At least John Mayer isn't on these albums

so much blooz guitar, coulda fooled me

so much zzz guitar more like

what it's saying beyond being generally pinteresting

All mood board

The complaints I am reading here -- "no songs," something something "stonewashed jean vest," an overall impression that this is more of an exploration of a certain mood than something that "says anything" -- make it sound amazing. Probably too good for me to ever listen to.

it doesn't even really work as just a mood piece or anything, it doesn't evoke anything at all

i liked channel orange but i can barely remember anything about this after multiple listens

I have taken the novel step of actually listening to this (new laptop, hadn't bothered to get itunes on it) and so far I like it?

(#wow would you look at that #scintillating take how could you produce such insights katherine #whoa)

Definitely less immediate than Channel Orange but it sounds heavenly.

I think the clumsy rollout prevented this from arriving with the boom it otherwise might have? Seems like he did himself no favors by releasing the leftovers first.

Endless definitely isn't leftover material

I dunno, it feels pretty secondary to the album

the staircase is the true standout

how's elliot smith's guest verse? he keeping the beef w/drake going?

people "wrestling" with this album dunno if i have the guts to listen to it

https://twitter.com/annkpowers/status/767825137907433474

music writers are making this album sound like a lot more work than it really is

detangling

i wish people wouldn't keep making us listen to music, can't we just lie down and rest

3 tracks in and.. shit this is great!

ok yeah .. goes a bit Secret Life Of Plants-y a few tracks further in.

If "Nikes" had come out a week or a month before the rest, it would get the credit it deserves.

average price for the mag on Ebay; $500 o_0

So apparently Mike Dean did the mastering on this and a lot of people think it sounds great? I just can't get into this thin, trebly sound.

This kind of has the same kind of hollow and rushed preset based production that Life of Pablo has.

According to wikipedia Mike Dean only worked on the Solo (reprise) track.

So much for art:

http://pitchfork.com/news/67748-frank-ocean-no-longer-on-def-jam-blonde-was-self-released/

Did David Carson design the magazine?

or did someone just rip his (ray gun magazine) style completely

damn @ lex getting sonned in a twitter beef

the framing of lex's piece isn't my favorite but the writing about this record is already 1) wild 2) mostly identically wild, in a way that it would never be about the other records he mentions

yup

like i am not thrilled at how many sentences i'm going to read about how the spelling of "blond/blonde" works in french

i like this record a good amount but the whole "i'm so moved i can't even put it into words" wave really ridiculous

Frank Ocean Reinvents R&B By Making An Album Without Bass

I'll give him one thing though. I remember back when Eminem started releasing albums so wack the fanboys were certain it was all a prank and that he had another, superior album up his sleeve. FO kinda actually did that with the release of Endless, an album so weak that everyone was relieved when there was another, slightly better one released right after it.

"Other people really enjoy this thing that I don't like/am only so-so about and that's Bad because they should be liking this Other Thing instead" is a weird stance to take.

I feel like it's awfully common here

that's the core of ILM

lex is an acquired taste

if i'd shaded k michelle as a ratchet reality tv joke while praising frank ocean would anyone have said a thing? (that's the subtext of all the "transcended r&b" stuff.) (and k michelle gets shaded every day on twitter for being a reality tv mess and it's deemed acceptable.)

If "Nikes" had come out a week or a month before the rest, it would get the credit it deserves.

― thrill of transgressin (Eazy), Monday, August 22, 2016 7:38 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm

Hmm...

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7487032/frank-ocean-endless-album-straw-broke-universal-music-back-may-get-sued

It's also worked for independent artists before Ocean -- Chance the Rapper's Coloring Book became the first-ever streaming-only release to reach the Billboard 200 albums chart, debuting at No. 8 as an Apple Music exclusive in May. With Ocean almost certainly set to hit No. 1 this week via his digital-only release (in addition to streaming on Apple Music, it's for sale in the iTunes Store), it raises the question of how important a record label is at all in 2016, as services offer marketing and advance money that a label would otherwise provide.

Such a sick move. "After an interminable wait (in music industry standards, at least), Ocean fulfilled his contractual obligations, sources tell Billboard, and increased his potential profit share from 14 percent to 70 percent of total revenues from Blond within a 24-hour period, seemingly pulling a fast one on the biggest music company in the world in the process."

!!!!

I gotta be honest, I'm finding all this way more fasincating than the album.

it gives him better material

that's a pretty incredible story -- IF it works out for Ocean (ie, if Universal/Def Jam can't come up with a reason to sue him, which I'm sure they will). For sticking it to a major label, I give him props, just hope he isn't permanently blacklisted in the industry.

I'm not sure I like it. If he gets away with it, surely every label contract will become even more nefarious, right? Plus it resulted in a shit album being sold to his audience under false pretenses. It's... Not good?

this is a fun story but i feel like if getting out of a record contract was as easy as "deliver your label a fake album and then give the real thing to someone else" it would have been discovered before now

It has been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_(Teenage_Fanclub_album)

Contractual obligations

@Frederik - it's only a bad precedent if Def Jam screwed him with a shit deal.

err, i mean - if his deal with Def Jam wasn't shitty, it's a bad precedent...

none of the examples in that thread happened in the last 25 years

in any event frank's issues with def jam go back pretty far, i wouldn't be surprised if they washed their hands of him a while back and were fine with letting him go if they recouped whatever money they put into the project

anyway this album is not quite as good as i was expecting but i like it a lot. i think it kinda starts weird, i like "nikes" but it doesn't really make much sense in the context of the album. the next few songs feel pretty channel orange-y and maybe out of place with what follows also. "solo" through "nights" is pretty incredible i think, none of the complaints people have about some of those tracks -- no beats, non-linear structures -- bother me, i think there's a lot to chew on lyrically and good hooks. "good guy" is maybe my fav song on this, i wish it was full-length but in general i like all the short songs on this. not quite sure how i feel about the final third of it... "godspeed" is pretty great, the album is pretty organ heavy and it's cool to hear him go more overt gospel even tho him in that context still sort of throws me for a loop. i like "white ferrari" but i also like bon iver... "seigfried" has a memorable ending but is overall a little ponderous i think and for being 9 minutes "futura free" ends up feeling kinda minor compared to how the last record ends.

ultimately i wish the beginning and ending stretches held up to the middle but there's enough stuff i like on either to where i think i'll play this all the way through a lot this year.

i'll admit that there are a bunch of points on this album where i don't know wtf he's talking about but the lyrics that are direct and not space-y i really connect w/ to the point that i don't even really care about the other stuff

Carl Wilson's take.

I hate big labels as much as the next guy but that move is super shady. Def Jam could prove that those 2M where used to pay all those producers and guest artists.

A drake dream heard underwater, no less.

Yeah, I hate this.

xxp he paid that $2M back, though.

Ok, this is growing on me a little bit. The Pink + White to Self Control stretch of songs is fantastic (remove the skit, please and thank you). Somebody could probably make a pretty good Playing God out of the best songs from Blonde and Endless

It helps to skip Nikes. I don't understand the breathless praise for that song or for "Seigfried" which is just not good at all.

Frank's 100 fave films

my goodness that's a dull list

must be a secret ILXer

Time to re-do "Puce Moment" with a Frank Ocean song

the mom weed interlude reminds me so much of the last track on Music Has the Right to Children by Boards of Canada. the bed of synths and the timbre of his mom's voice are exactly like the PSA sampled in that track.

That sound/filter/effect at 1:50 in Nikes.

got apple music to listen to this, which i am doing now. nikes is stunning.

the meandering surfer guitar on this second track is rad

got apple music to listen to this

iirc you can also buy it

i went into the record shop the other day and they didn't seem to have it

digitally

I guess mp3s really are over

after a few more listens there's some pretty moments on this but it's very inconsistent and the sequencing really does it no favours. when the actual songs are so fragmented and formless already, all the interludes just fracture it even further.

id be fine if someone edited the bird whistle out of solo btw

this album provokes no dissatisfaction in me. i think it is good the way it is.

If Nikes, Ivy, Pink and White, Nights and Siegfried had been an intermediary e.p that surfaced 3 years ago I'd of been hailing him as the second coming. This is just a little insubstantial for all the hype. Truth is I keep hoping that he's gonna surprise us with the real album of 'Boys Don't Cry'...

This album is such an awkward bluff.

Skyline To is the true keeper from this

whew! It took long enough:

When you listen to “Blonde,” characterizations like “R. & B. deconstructionist” suddenly feel insufficient. If Ocean was ever interested in toying with genre conventions, he has since widened his gaze. These days, his work feels not only post-genre but post-album, and even post-song.

[snip]

At a time when a pop lyric is only as strong as its potential to become a T-shirt logo or an Instagram caption, Ocean is a genuine misfit. His free-form lyrics are a no-hashtag zone.

I was worried that no one would imply the album was post-genre.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/05/frank-oceans-blonde-endless-and-boys-dont-cry-reviewed

at last we are out of the woods of genre

So many reviews boil down to «I don't actually like this but it feels important so...»

So are Blond, Endless and Boys Don't Cry three separate albums? And why is one spelled Blond and one spelled Blonde? I'm too old to understand what's happening :(

Something about contractual obligations, a super-rare magazine that's already claiming ridiculous amounts of money on eBay, and a frankly underwhelming album.

Trying, and failing, to hear the Gang of Four sample in 'Futura Free'.

And why is one spelled Blond and one spelled Blonde?

bc it's 2016 words have no rules or meaning dog

'Self Control' is making me tearful. The album is growing on me, a lot.

Oh come on ILM, 'Blond/Blonde' deserves more love than this. It's a brave slow burner that breaks the rules. Well, my rules at least given I've little patience with confessional singer songwriters. Blond/Blonde is a work with many layers, nuances and emotions. It needs time and focused listening, but it's worth the effort.

I fear it is heading for the dreaded 'more talked about than listened to' status. It's better than that, much better.

what rules is it breaking?

I added 'my rules' , which include an aversion to: R&B artists showcasing their Gospel influences, introspective men wth guitars unburdening their souls, and sprawling stabs at 'serious artist' status.

This album is way too much a guy with little tune sense unburdening his damaged soul over guitar strums.

"little tune sense"....... Frank's got tunes to burn, they're just not 'immediate', but they are there, in abundance. They are swirling around my head when I'm not playing it. And this is s.o. who gave 'Channel Orange' only a cursory listen.

Interesting. I loved nostalgiaultra and sort of hated Channel Orange. I think I noticed most of the tunes you mention but they just don't seem strong enough. The lyrics are unremarkable as well. It just sounds like a regular singer/songwriters's demo or something. It's coming from an interesting and likable dude so it gets a pass imo. But I'm sort of ready to be convinced otherwise. Could you maybe choose your top 5 favorite moments on the record?

I like the challenge simmel. As I'm currently traveling it will take a few days, but if I can persuade at least one person Blond(e) is the work of genius I think it is I will be happy, I will choose my five moments and get back to you.

Thanks! Looking forward to it.

Hey do you think Frank Ocean is trolling hipster wannabes?

I'm just thinking about an album sampling the Beatles and Gang of Four, with James Blake, scoring by Jonny Greenwood, Todd Rundgren, released on Apple Music, video album with him in a conceptual performance piece, doing symbolic woodcraft in his home shop, wearing a Jesus and Mary Chain t shirt, citing 100 absolutely canon films ... I'm feeling catered-to.

Still love the album, and I don't think the songs are anything other than heartfelt, but there is a part of me that wonders if it was production designed by someone with a list from stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

he didn't even put Todd in his list of "contributors" smh

Source unknown but the Wikipedia article for the album says '"Solo" contains a sample of "Flamingo" as written and performed by Todd Rundgren from the album A Wizard, a True Star.'
I think it's a fair question, don't you? The artistic choices and presentation of the music seem to have taken a very deliberate tack. "Trolling" is probably the wrong word, but ... fuck it, if it causes offence I am happy to withdraw the comment.

Oh, the Rundgren sample is just the bird chirp. Never mind.

Nah, good comment, good question, especially with OFWGKTA's whole deal.

i really like futura free, once you excise off the bonus track portion

http://funkyimg.com/i/2g5Bq.jpg

"Nikes" is cool imo, hypnotic. The N.E.R.D-sounding one and the couple acoustic tracks were the others that have elements I like at least

overall kind of a depressing listen though, in the literal sense

'Nights' turned out to be the keeper IMO.

where do you keep it – the basement?

in the pyramid iirc

Turns out he's done nothing but build staircases all these months.

whole album is a keeper. He really played the long game with this one

S:

Self Control
Solo
Skyline To
Nights
Pink + White

D:

Everything else

whole album is a keeper. He really played the long game with this one

― Evan R, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 3:24 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah it's a very long album

great album

― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Friday, August 5, 2016 12:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jk

― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Friday, August 5, 2016 12:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol Brad, this was great

voodoo's assessment feels right

would love to see a simple yes/no poll on this album

What game did he play

he made an LP that seemed like a massive, audaciously indulgent disappointment at first but revealed itself to be a huge grower imo

I get why most of this board hates it, and I don't have the energy to be its sole defender, but once it starts to click/move you it just keeps paying off with big emotional revelations. He also plays some unique tricks with absence (long periods w/o drums or unmanipulated vocals or certain expected trappings). My first couple of listens I couldn't stop focusing on what wasn't there, so it took me a while to realize what was. It's an ridiculously generous album disguised as a stingy one

anyway, so I get why people hate it, but I don't get the people who dismiss it as if it's w/o merit

i always loved this great album which i still listen to all the time

^^ long game listening

i'll happily defend this album, it's great

He also plays some unique tricks with absence (long periods w/o drums or unmanipulated vocals or certain expected trappings)

long periods without songwriting or variety or anything compelling happening, yeah

Two weeks out and I still can't stop playing "Chanel." Really hope this is a lead off to new material and not just a one-off, though the latter is more likely. "Slide" didn't have as much staying power for me, but "Chanel" just keeps getting better. Might be a top 5 song for him. "My guy pretty like a girl" is one of the best opening lines I've heard in a while.

Blonde is great, but "Chanel" kills most everything on it.

BABY I'M BIKING!

saw him in concert last night, he absolutely bombed, embarrassingly unengaged

I left after 4 numbers and while there are rumors the show gained some momentum later on I could not be bothered to wait for that (have seen some footage of it and looks just as dreadful as what I witnessed)

I believe most of the vocals I heard were backing tracks

a pity

That surprises me none

yeah what is his deal? He's been pulling an Axl lately cancelling these huge festival appearances like two weeks out. does he hate playing live?

the video i saw it seemed like he was singing?

it is weird that he cancelled dude to "production delays" seeing as the stage set up seemed like him, a guitarist and some shit piled up in the background?

Y

"production delays" surely bullshit since there was hardly any scenography

his mic was on, just think he also had a lot of backing track

he's doing unique tricks with absence you fucking idiot

wtf is up with the frank apologism

Though festivalgoers are often irritated (a woman behind me angrily yelled about the £125 she spent on festival tickets solely to see Ocean), it’s also indulged as a quirk of character, part and parcel of his talent. Ocean is considered a genius who strings along his audience with fake release dates, unreliable performance schedules and an internet presence consisting of vague tumblr posts and media blackouts.

seriously what is the deal with this dude? not fulfilling vinyl orders, his verified facebook was hacked but "it's not actually official"? and then the disastrous live shows...

part of his numinous appeal iirc

feel like he would be the worst date

it's a quirk of character, part and parcel of his talent.

i saw his live show and it was very far from disastrous

his talent affords him license to be an enigma, not really that crazy of a story

yeah, I shouldn't have said disastrous, I guess inconsistent. which is fine I suppose. but taking peoples' money and not delivering product is fucked up, no excuses for that

I saw his first live show in three years and found it disastrous, walked out after 30 minutes

I know people who were in the front and who found it great though

When an artist has the level of attention and talent that he has, something strange and miraculous happens, whereby the entire world starts to bend to the artist's will. Certain musicians will, at this moment, industrialize their process out of necessity, which has the long-term effect of weakening their product. Other musicians will just get fat and lazy on the power they have, and feel genuine amazement when their latest turd doesn't float anyone's boat.

In Frank's case, like Kanye before him, and Prince, probably, he takes this immense agency and uses it to form an abusive relationship with his staff and audience-- he pushes his administrative team and his production team to work all night and make great sacrifice, he makes unreasonable demands on everyone and everything, and the result is moments of incandescence: a travelling silk-screen station for his merch-- never mind that the line is four hours long. A second album to go with the long anticipated other album-- never mind that it's only available in lousy audio on video-- oh, now it's on vinyl! never mind that it's 6 minutes of music per side.

Artist-audience relationships are inherently abusive-- nobody deserves this kind of attention, really, do they?

Anyway my point is that yeah the feeling of having to "work for it"-- stand in line, get up front, wait because the artist is late-- it only creates more devotion in the audience

Me I think he's a genius I'm 100% enthralled and buying into the myth

Ha. I was going to respond, "His nightmarish treatment of staff won't matter in forty years if he's a genius. Which he isn't."

the A/V aspects of his show were wonky in the first dates and i guess he cancelled all those shows before that but by the time i saw him it was by far the coolest and most visually interesting festival set i've ever seen. the music itself isn't made for festivals and i was close to the stage so that mattered too but if festivals wanted to pay him to put on that kinda show that's fine by me.

if we're gonna cite anything as evidence of him being a schmuck i'd prob go w/ him recently suing om'mas keith over the publishing on blonde. but that he's not easy to work with ain't really my problem.

Alfo your anti-Frank propaganda is peak Alfo gaslighting, repeating “he’s no genius” over and over again will not and does not do anything but destabilize your credibility

i do not get his music, but he's clearly a genius of some kind if he's managed to achieve the blanket adulation of every young music enthusiast on the internet

i mean he's either a genius or a meme. or both

Alfo your anti-Frank propaganda is peak Alfo gaslighting, repeating “he’s no genius” over and over again will not and does not do anything but destabilize your credibility

― nevertheless, he stopped (flamboyant goon tie included),

Do I get to look like Charles Boyer if my credibility keeps destabilizing?

Oh come now you’re more handsome than that jerk

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/14/89/38/148938f74280e777ef12889fd69ba334.jpg

Artist-audience relationships are inherently abusive-- nobody deserves this kind of attention, really, do they?

great post, fgti

Ha. I was going to respond, "His nightmarish treatment of staff won't matter in forty years if he's a genius. Which he isn't."

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:14 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree w/ alf.

I wonder how brilliant one musician has to be before they get the big G word applied to them round here, then

I can’t think of a more talented creator-of-work (where the work includes music, myth-building, public person, and effect)— and certainly he’s my favourite creator of effortlessly queer music

Like for real, haters, step back a second. Who else is occupying the public eye and creating such strong work that is necessarily queer? I can think of nobody. For the first time in my life am I inspired by a queer musician, one who isn’t inverting straightness, or existing within the rubric of camp, or is sex-focused— he just is and that is amazing to me

Who else is occupying the public eye and creating such strong work that is necessarily queer?

"public eye" aspect of this question narrows the field considerably

but lmao being referred to as a hater in this conversation is making me not really want to engage anyway

For the first time in my life am I inspired by a queer musician, one who isn’t inverting straightness, or existing within the rubric of camp, or is sex-focused

i can however think of several musicians that fit into this particular rubric, they're just not popular

i really hope he manages to record an album that lives up to his genius reputation now. channel orange was great and there were certainly moments of genius on blonde but a lot of it felt like reaching for genius and not quite getting there to me

also literally the last thing i read about this dude was about the molecular spread of his influence and his general gnomic genius, i'm sure he can survive being called "not a genius" by one critic on a message board (i don't particularly care if he's a genius or not, or that saying someone's a genius necessarily means anything to me, his music is often too shapeless to be compelling to me and i'm aware that shapelessness is part of the attraction for the people who recognize him as such, there's an absence, a kind of inner resistance, that's obviously fun to think about and try to figure out)

isn't the whole romantic "genius" concept played? anyway, if the idea of musical genius has anything to do with complexity I always found Frank Ocean's shtick pretty simple, his success more reliant on excellent marketing than anything else

maybe it's more of a media star type genius, but I just don't care for his press at all

he has some good tunes, no doubt, but so does Drake and nobody's calling him a genius

oh yeah and I don't hate Frank Ocean at all (although I find his apparent disregard of his audience unappealing) I just find the critical acclaim surprising, always sounded like nice little songs to me, nothing special

Dissenting opinions make ILM interesting. It's really boring when everyone agrees. Also good to see Brad around

there's a smashing pumpkins poll on, no way that alone wouldn't lure me back, but also thank u ross <3

Who else is occupying the public eye and creating such strong work that is necessarily queer?

"public eye" aspect of this question narrows the field considerably

It's the "public eye" part of it tho that makes it so interesting and daring, I guess, that his queer black boy joy-and-pain would resonate so strongly across the board. I can't think of any other queer artist who maintains such a broad fanbase of people who can empathize with the sentiments expressed in his songs on a 1:1 level, (something that I've always felt frustrated with, in seeing the dynamic between the work of, say, John Grant or Anohni and their straight audiences)

I used "hater" in jest btw

My raised-eyebrow here isn't really about Frank Ocean's birthright to the term "genius" but rather about the the "too many notes" kind of dismissiveness that describing him as "not a genius" affects. It's dismissive. "Not a genius"? fine. At least he's very very very good, then? Or "shows promise"? idk. I had the same issue last month when "Moonlight" was being described as "on the nose". What is it about black queer excellence that elicits this dismissiveness

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/62044377/there-are-how-shall-one-say-too-many-notes.jpg

spicy thread bump. i want to reiterate that i like his music a lot, not a huge active fan, but i bumped this thread because the whole taking peoples' money and not delivering product is just inexcusable imo, and seeing fans make excuses for him sorta pissed me off - fgti is so otm itt, especially w/r/t relationship with fanbase & staff bordering on abusive. and describing pop up shops as "incandescent" is perfect

I used "hater" in jest btw

lol i figured but i still bristled, sorry about that

What is it about black queer excellence that elicits this dismissiveness

oh i see the plan of attack here

after being kinda dismissive itt, it turns out i kinda like "blonde" now though i still found myself disengage for stretches of it.

i wish there were more Songs

I got in a sidewalk discussion a couple weeks ago about Channel Orange vs. Blond, they were saying something similar, that they wish there were more songs, but I argued that Blonde was itself attempting something loftier, a kind of intangibility, songs that existed in half-forms and transitions so as to create a dream-like state, it was obscurantism as a thesis, masterfully pulled off with the Endless maguffin and the Boys Don't Cry false title (and resultant book) and even in the Blond(e) ambiguity (even his admin and collaborators receive a smirk when they ask him if it's a masculine or feminine spelling), the experience is wonderfully post-modern while retaining that accessibility. I don't want an album that is "Ivy" and "Pink & White" and a dozen other songs like it, I wanted this

i can appreciate that. and there are other artists for which that works for me (flying lotus comes to mind rn.)

i was somewhat dismissive of blonde when it came out, but it does seem to be specifically created for the type of late summer ennui that i'm experiencing right now

still think Nikes is not a good song tho

Yah I gotta agree, Nikes is weak

aw i like that one!!

I got in a sidewalk discussion a couple weeks ago about Channel Orange vs. Blond, they were saying something similar, that they wish there were more songs, but I argued that Blonde was itself attempting something loftier, a kind of intangibility, songs that existed in half-forms and transitions so as to create a dream-like state, it was obscurantism as a thesis, masterfully pulled off with the Endless maguffin and the Boys Don't Cry false title (and resultant book) and even in the Blond(e) ambiguity (even his admin and collaborators receive a smirk when they ask him if it's a masculine or feminine spelling), the experience is wonderfully post-modern while retaining that accessibility. I don't want an album that is "Ivy" and "Pink & White" and a dozen other songs like it, I wanted this

― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, August 25, 2018 12:21 PM (yesterday) Bookmark

i'm not sure i quite buy blonde as dreamlike and half formed exactly (tho i would apply that to the new blood orange, and they are def cut from the same cloth in some regards), but one thing i do love about blonde that is prob picking up on the same thread is how isolated it feels. there's not much to many of the songs, as if he created them on his own off somewhere in the ether. this is prob true in some sense literally but to me the songs also don't have the feel of being demos or unfinished, so i guess that's where we would break. but there's some quality in the album that dovetails w/ his post-fame public persona as this quicksilver presence that i find really authentic & alluring

i was somewhat dismissive of blonde when it came out, but it does seem to be specifically created for the type of late summer ennui that i'm experiencing right now

― guardians of the gums: i am tooth (voodoo chili), Saturday, August 25, 2018 11:17 AM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

rt

and tbh i came all the way around to really loving it

welcome

i still rate this below channel orange but "solo" "self control" and "nights" alone make it a classic

it's still a really frustrating listen, there's a lot of brilliant tracks (i especially love "self control" and "white ferrari") but also plenty that feel clunky and half-formed ("ivy", "nights" has some cool parts but doesn't hold together that well, "pretty sweet", "seigfried", "futura free") and i hate the sequencing and the interludes so it doesn't work as an album at all for me.

Fans like him for his maladroit songwriting and well-intentioned gestures. I've made my peace with it.

the interludes are pretty bad but i do rly like that one instrumental that is woven thru the album... i think it lends the album a dreaminess that flatters it. i really like to listen to blonde when i'm flying... it just feels right for when you're above the clouds. but mostly nowadays i just run thru those 3 tracks... i do love "godspeed" too

the andre 3000 interlude on here is one of the most annoying things i've ever heard

blonde feels like a wave of inspiration to me, I haven't wanted to separate out the individual tracks

yeah "godspeed" is great and would be the closer if i'd sequenced it. that one instrumental on its own is fine but then the way it's woven through the album is jarring and takes me out of it, especially when the bits of speech its used behind in both "facebook story" and "be yourself" are pretty inane. i do like "good guy" and "close to you" quite a lot at least.

the andre 3000 interlude on here is one of the most annoying things i've ever heard

― J0rdan S.

It's the rap equivalent of a two-note guitar solo.

yeah i don't count the ones that are actually songs... the mom's voicemail is kinda funny and sometimes i will listen to it for fun but it gets old. "facebook story" is wretched... i stan the woman who dumped that fucker

"good guy" is easily one of the best things he's ever written lyrically... i love that song. i'm glad that it got an extended placement in the blonde shows.

"that fucker" is SebastiAn isn't it which makes the whole thing even weirder

didn't know he'd done an extended version of "good guy" live, checking it out now and it's wonderful

i think "pretty sweet" rules, that tumult of strings at the beginning resolves into one of my favorite melodies on the record (but given that i've always really loved "ivy" and "nights" i think i'm drawn to this record's use of guitars)

"nights" is all about that zoned-out coda for me, I could listen for an hour

I should just stop paying attention to this guy since he hasn't put out anything I've cared for since Channel Orange but anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccU0JCRNj3A

who?

not sure Pitchfork will be adding an unnumbered addition to their best tracks of the decade here

his subreddit lol

https://i.redd.it/244rc8wp1mt31.jpg

S:

Self Control
Solo
Skyline To
Nights
Pink + White

D:

Everything else

― neva missa lost, wednesday nights on abc (voodoo chili), Tuesday, March 7, 2017 5:25 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok, so, i have a playlist that i regularly return to that looks like this

pink + white
ivy
solo
skyline to
godspeed
nights
white ferrari
self control
good guy

^^ i think that four-five of these are better than anything else frank has written. it's a shame that i still can't really stand the other songs on the album.

Chanel tho

sure chanel and bike are also good

*solo version of bike

*BIKING sheesh

ilm frank scepticism is depressing. not enough kids on here

if there's one guy who doesn't get enough praise, it's pitchfork best album of the decade champion frank ocean

true, on this forum

not everyone has to love him but there's a weird suspicion of the motives of ppl who do that runs through the various threads here

No love for ‘Siegfried’?

it's good

skits aside it's all good

and as far as skits go... I don't even skip em

the andre 3000 song on here is so jarring and awful, i skip that every time. worse than any of the skits

m frank scepticism is depressing. not enough kids on here

― nothing (Left),

this place is a most welcome oasis from the suffocating Ocean praise I see elsewhere!

https://i.redd.it/eh80gjhu34j11.jpg

if mild criticism of frank ocean bothers you so much, may i suggest you go to literally anyplace else on the internet?

as I said it's the suspicion of motives that is strange and sometimes ugly. other threads show this attitude has been consistent even when charges have changed (earlier mentions filtered through the ludicrous hipster R&B wars of the early 10s which was exclusively a hipster civil war)

I find the constant suspicion both suspicious and sad next to the enthusiasm and generosity extended towards absolute bullshit like vampire weekend and the 1975 during the same period. it's clearly generational to a large extent

vampire weekend suck

that sure is a lot of words to say "i don't know how to process opinions that differ from mine"

40something for Blond on the 2016 album poll is pretty wild

then again, i've seen your posts on ile so idk what i was expecting

xp

3 points, related

the subtext is that frank ocean and/or his popularity is essentially fradulent in some way

there are some pretty obvious things motivating this attitude, which comparisons with contemporary artists more beloved by ILM make clear

i also think it would be nice if there were younger people here but other people clearly don't agree

why do you care

I don't understand your obsession here with ILM discourse. Some like Ocean, some don't, he's worth discussing.

i also think it would be nice if there were younger people here but other people clearly don't agree

― nothing (Left), Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:21 PM (three minutes ago)

are you gonna do some outreach?

three more points

the opinions actually expressed in this thread are quite varied, from j0rdan's unreserved praise, to brad's skepticism evolving into genuine love, to alfred's stating his preference of jeremih, miguel, etc. all of these are opinions very much in character, nothing nefarious here

"the kids" aren't always right about music, and "popularity with the youth" isn't an inherent argument for music's worthiness. furthermore, the under-40s on this thread have varying opinions (i loved loved loved channel orange when i was 22 and it came out, when blonde came out i was 26 and skeptical)

i'm not gonna even acknowledge your third point, because it's becoming clear that you're just a troll who refuses to actually read the posts in this and other threads and engage critically

think of frank ocean as mainly a millennial phenomenon. orange came out in 2012

might be wrong

j0rdan's praise wasn't entirely unreserved, ignore that adjective

xp. might be wrong about the former, not the latter, lol

no it's ok i have very little reservation about praising frank ocean

probably young enough to count as a 'kid' here (i am 25, pretty sure i'm one of the youngest active posters?) and while channel orange was quite good, blonde was one of the most frustrating albums released last decade. it has plenty of fantastic moments, but it's also incredibly inconsistent and fragmented, a lot of what it's trying to do just doesn't work at all for me. and endless is just not very good. it's felt like the mythology around him has long outgrown the actual music

are you going to complain about ilm not liking say, the life of pablo or kids see ghosts enough too idk

no they're shit

endless is very good though

I did this podcast where we were talking about him and I listened for a couple weeks to both albums a lot and definitely "got" it in a new way that i hadn't before

though I guess I came away with the non-majority opinion that Channel Orange > Blonde but I liked both

it has a very "California" vibe that I'm a sucker for

My partner on the episode was a younger millennial and she talked about hearing Orange and getting really into him and then waiting on line at a special in store event for Blonde and feeling like that record was a really special thing in her life

which talking to her about it made me like it more in a way

blonde was a very important record for a lot of people my age, and i did eventually appreciate it, but as evidenced by my posts in this thread, it took a little time.

voodoo I hope you like frank ocean the correct amount

xps well you can make exactly the same case that it's just generational that ilm doesn't like tlop and ksg so if you want the frank sceptics to engage you should probably at least try to sell people on his merits rather than complaining about a generational divide

channel orange is >>> to me but it's also a top 5 record of the 2010s for me easy

i haven't put blonde on for a while... it's kind of a morose record, largely about isolation and disaffection... it's kind of a whole thing to put it on for me. i guess channel orange is about those things too but it has that sun dappled california feel and character driven songs so it's easier to just put on

voodoo I hope you like frank ocean the correct amount

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:40 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

blonde, more like goldilocks

xpost jord that was it for me, like blonde seemed like a deeper record but I don't really want to be in that headspace compared to orange

xpost kanye is 43 I feel like ppl forget his age

43 year old 3 year old

loved ocean's prior work but blonde, even after multiple listens, is just a nonstarter for me.

Looks like no one really said anything about "DHL" when it was posted upthread, but the second half of that track is incredibly addictive, my favorite thing he's done in rap mode. Really seemed like a new album was coming soon coming soon, don't know what happened

I’m 50 and I still adore Blond, it was a very important record to me at the time, flaws and all. So impatient for the next one, which I thought was about to drop at the start of 2020.

frank ocean is the most overrated and overvalued pop singer in a long time.

and he's still able to manage at least two or three songs every album that are complete smashes. so idk.

i'm an old white man, btw.

you'd be mad to pull frank to bits. what is to criticize? coolest contemporary voice in music. his vocal alone is enough to warrant status. blonde, i can't think of a better full length from the last decade that's so of its time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qKP32GYiks

still think Nikes is not a good song tho

― guardians of the gums: i am tooth (voodoo chili), Saturday, August 25, 2018 1:50 PM (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink

RIP Pepsi

you'd be mad to pull frank to bits. what is to criticize? coolest contemporary voice in music. his vocal alone is enough to warrant status. blonde, i can't think of a better full length from the last decade that's so of its time.

RIP criticism

i mean cool, opinions, good, i wanna hear you tell me what's bad about it. it's deliberately fragmented, confused, emotional, delicate. aloof... it's a fine self-portrait. feels like an elliott smith record to me or something - i'd say that without the sample in there, too

The bloodline to singer-songwriter stuff is exactly what puts me off, actually, so otm.

or, as i like to say: one man's trash is another man's less smelly trash.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61fhqJRhbhL._SY355_.jpg

i rest my case.