Extreme number ones

http://cookham.blogspot.com

maybe include number 2 hits if discussing this too

i think the most 'extreme' number one of this decade so far would be Eminem's 'Stan' but my short term memory aint so good so if you know better say so

Did Get Yr Freak On ever make it to the top spot in the UK?

The jungle remix was ace as ace can be though, and I have been very sad since I lost it.

Did "More Than Words" get to No.1. Even Graham couldn't deny that was Extreme?

Now, if Blackalicious' "Chemical Calisthenics" would go top-10, that would be something else...

"Chop Suey" = metal kids anthem = top 40 hit! the manic stop/start trademark of SOAD was quirky and powerful (makes me laugh too!) tho the actual sounds on the track were kinda ordinary dontcha think? shoulda made it up more fcuked up

for sound and mood ghost town takes some beating, you don't often get *dread* as the dominant emotion in the number one song.

and god save the queen is a pretty extreme statement - the gleeful damnation of 2,000 years of western culture as 'your mad parade' - is not something a1 are likely to be offering us in the near future.

which i suppose brings out the hidden question in this thread - is extremity a good thing in a number one?

but perhaps the most lyrically extreme number one i can think of is 'freedom' by wham. what other songs speak of such weary self-abasement - billy holiday could've done a great version.

also ghost town = bleakness = johnny remember me?

no one's mentioned strawberry fields forever (honorary number one, denied by the scoundrel humperdinck) or je t'aime!

(hi curt, by the way - can't wait to read yr thoughts on "escalator"!)

setting sun = psychadelic nonsense with guitars or something. more weak than extreme.
firestarter = catchy novelty record
breathe = hit follow-up record
bring your daughter to the slaughter = hiar metal v.popular at time, so not extreme in context
3AM eternal = standard fayre for the time
God Save The Queen = catchy novelty record
Rollin = v.catchy and danceable and ting
Stan = novelty record
I Want You Back = standard pop-rap corssover type thing
Flat Beat = No one listened to the thing
('O Superman' I don't know)

Come on I'm 19, nothing's extreme to me, especially not those things which came out before I was born, I mean I remember hearing them 20 years later and thinking "that's not extreme"! And I was right wasn't I?

so you think the guitar sounds on this track are weak? and as a 'tomorrow never knows' cap-donner its weak? as a dance track weak? mmmmmmmmmmmkay...maybe extreme is not the word but its as powerful as pop can be and i think you know what i meant so why the pedantic and generally 'unimpressed' stance?

firestarter = catchy novelty record
i'm not convinced this is really a novelty record - maybe its throwaway but still a very charged and powerful track aurally - can you really argue against that?

breathe = hit follow-up record
oh so totally redundant then...

bring your daughter to the slaughter = hiar metal v.popular at time, so not extreme in context
actually it wasnt that popular at the time (1990) anymore but it was indicative of the bizarre and then unique way in which Maiden fans would buy the single in their droves in the first week to secure a high chart position - the record would drop 17 places or so the following week ala Morrissey - admittedly not extreme musically but as 'novelty' or throwaway as 'Firestarter' if not more so - i think its still remarkable it made no. 1, even for the first week of january of 91

3AM eternal = standard fayre for the time
no-one else was making records like the KLF...The Orb and The Shamen came close but no contest really

God Save The Queen = catchy novelty record
lyrically controversial - dare i say 'shocking' given its message? thus an extreme example in the context i suggested

Rollin = v.catchy and danceable and ting
heavy rock back at no.1 for first time since....Maiden? or maybe Lenny Kravitz...i didnt pick this one so not really bothered about trying to validate it as extreme in any way

Stan = novelty record
relatively innovative method of story-telling and delivery in rap - unconventional...the disturbing undertones inherrent make it a somewhat unusual, even unique, no.1 hit and i suspect more people listen to Dido's 'Thank You' now

I Want You Back = standard pop-rap corssover type thing
interesting rhythm goin on as is standard with the Missy stuff certainly

Flat Beat = No one listened to the thing
not bad bootleg fodder mind...

so ahhhh, whats this all about again?

By weak, I mean easy to ignore or just not get rather than wanting to smash the radio.

you could argue that 'freak like me' was pretty hard sonically for a chart-topper...still just about being horny tho - if it had been about denouncing the fascist regime of early 20th century East Prussia then woohoo, extreme city! ;)

Blueski, define what kind of records you expect to be at number one.

the ordinary rap in 3am Eternal seems incidental to the underlying KLF concept and ideals being thrown up in the track, as with all the KLF singles...its not really clear what '3AM Eternal' is about or rather it doesnt seem to be about anything tangible or recognisable in relation to reality and real situations that people generally deal with in life...this is something else that makes it unusual for a no. 1 - altho considering it was following on from Enigma's 'Sadness' and Queen's 'Innuendo' then maybe thats not much of a big deal

I'm not sure it's true though.

Blueski - are "Bohemian Rhapsody" or "Innuendo" extreme no.1s?

*lies

Blueski hold on "extremity" = "striking a chord with my own life and experiences"???

Why don't you?

Incidentally, would Ronan and Graham and Blueski be having this argument if the thread title had read 'unusual' or 'unconventional' or even 'different' instead of 'extreme'?

(is there more to it than that?)

Anyway my point isn't about blueski's argument per se, I'm more generally annoyed by the futility of both sides of this argument and indeed this thread, and I think you'll find if you bother to read what I posted that my point is in the total madness of discussing this with language like "novelty chart hit", I mean unless you really are willing to go deep with this and discuss the relative extremity of something using the time it was released or something then I don't see how this can work. Your question to blueski just now is the kind of thing which might send the thread in the right direction but did we really need to sit here and have people discuss what is and isn't extreme without ever saying why they believe this. I mean I find it as difficult to say why Setting Sun is extreme without using personal opinion (this seems to be how it was attempted) as it is to say why the Sex Pistols wasn't extreme when you weren't even born when it came out.

And Blueski's last post at least is engaging and there is some interesting conversation on the horizon, but opinions on music that are pretty much "I like this" and "I don't" aren't really interesting.

So it doesn't really matter a shit about whether I agree with blueski, or that I did a crap entry on my blog, because my point is to do with the fact that this could have gone on all day with a series of cheapshots.

i've touched on all this in several previous threads now and i dont want to re-iterate myself everytime cos i know its boring, and sorry if i dont explain what i think as well as i could...

(All off to the British Library to try this out for real, then?)

(Blueski and Graham, this is nothing personal, I just really felt we were heading towards more pop vs blah conflict and I couldn't stomach it.)

Also in the quest to define extreme, aren't we bound to constant retorts a la the above one "this is not extreme, neither is this, neither is this, neither is this". Isn't a better goal to actually articulate what no 1 records you have felt were extreme and why?

I realise I could have said this straight away without getting so annoyed but I wasn't being deliberately cranky, I was genuinely really riled by an argument which seemed to be going nowhere.

and i'll add that my favourite track at the moment is (finally) THAT LRD mix of 'Silver Screen Shower Scene' (well either that or Liam Lynch) and if that was number one in the charts then i would be referring to that as an extreme number one too i'm afraid!

Opinions on The Masses Against The Classes please.

Sorry I really took the opportunity to plug here. LRD remix is fantastic alright, only Cosmos beats it this year as far as I can tell.

(sorry, so sorry everyone)

Graham i was going to mention 'masses against the classes' but not sure how best to articulate why that would fit into my idea of extreme no.1's - maybe just the socio-political message and angry guitars are enough...but if you feel that qualifies then why not anything i mentioned?

novelty acts ussually have that one big hit.

''God Save The Queen = catchy novelty record
lyrically controversial - dare i say 'shocking' given its message? thus an extreme example in the context i suggested''

yes context!

In terms of "best house record of the year", the Röyksopp remix of The Streets Weak Become Heroes might give it a run for its money - I just got this and I'm completely blown away. How long has this been out????

What about Your Woman by White Town? That one really did seem genuinely surprising at the time.

And the Cosmos record is the single of the year, and the tune of the year, house or otherwise. It's up there with Two Months Off and Capital Rocka in my favourites list at the moment.

Capital Rocka' is actually about 4 years old, I'm not sure what they were up to for 4 or so years, just it's on a Jon Carter Mix from 98 or maybe even 97. They've changed it slightly for the re-release, taken out a nice trumpet part but it still rocks.

'your woman' maybe - the unusualness came more in the way it hit the top - heavy airplay but a real sense of 'who the hell is this guy?' and interest because it wasnt really a novelty hit like something like 'Hey baby# by DJ otzi, Babylon Zoo's 'spaceman' maybe cos the Pinky n perky intro was a bit of a quirk (or gimmick) - i hated both these records when they were out but came to like 'your woman' at least - so where are Josh Myitri (think that was his name) and Jas Mann anyway?

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Blueski - Jyoti Mishra is still making music, is very prominent on uk.music.alternative and has contributed to Freakytrigger and (I think) ILX on occasions. If you type his name into Google Groups you can find him dropping his little pearls of wisdom all over USENET.

i'm probably getting confused here with all the quote-quoting and working out who said what, but as far as i can remember, not only was firestarter not the prodigy's "one big hit" (they had at least two), but im sure breathe actually outsold it.

Attempts at definition of "extreme" #1s:

(disclaimer: I don't particularly pride myself on liking "extreme" music, so no emotional stakes here)

1- #1s with lyrics that are disturbing and/or highly political, thus likely to cause many people discomfort. Please note "political" here means actually saying something about a very specific (and preferably current) issue, as songs like say "Imagine" are so amigious that we can basically stick whatever political ideology we want to on them.

Problem with this definition: Most people don't listen to the lyrics anyway.

2- Music which is sonically abrasive and/or new, i.e. likely to disturb older audiences. I say older audiences because amongst the teenage male, liking noisy stuff is almost a matter of honour- I mean, I doubt it any of the metalheads I knew in 9th grade would have truly ENJOYED, say, "Metal Machine Music", but they'd sure have aplauded it if someone played it to them and bought their own copies to scare their relatives with.

Problem with this definition: Older audiences either shocked by pretty much everything or affecting jadedness when shocked ("Iron Maiden, pfffft, they ain't half as heavy as SABBATH!")

Anyway, I'd say both The Sex Pistols and "Freak Like Me" apply according to these definitions. "Stan" pretty good by criteria #1 but pants on criteria #2- I remember seeing my yuppie relatives happily dance to it with their kids, totally oblivious to the lyrix (let's not get into the "it's SUBVERSIVE because ppl like it and yet they don't know what it's about" argument, please...)

having said all this, its become apparent that a pointless amount of value has been placed on being no.1 - this is surely a dated concept as it seems significantly less important to top the charts now, given how much 'easier' it seems and how only one in ten chart-toppers lasts there more than a week. but i could still cite 'setting sun' and 'firestarter' as examples of top ten hits that stand out because they sound a lot harder than the majority of stuff that charts that high. this was my original point really. didnt N.O.R.E.'s 'Nothin' almost make the top ten recently? same deal and thats arguably more 'antipop/pop' then the prodge and chems tracks being quite a heavy, menacing hip hop track...big pop hits with a dark or weird edge

If we open it up to include top ten hits, and not just number ones, then that opens the field wide up - Virginia Plain, Heartbreak Hotel, Purple Haze, Macarthur Park (Harris or Summer, either is equally weird), Papa's Got A Brand New Pigbag...

...which reminds me apropos number ones: what about Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick? Freeform sax improv on Top of the Pops!

As I wrote on my Joe Meek piece on CoM, Telstar was a pretty avant-garde number one if you think about it.

Re: Sputnik - yes I suppose Love Missile F1-11 (#3, March '86) was pretty out of kilter for the charts of the time. Moroder productions in general (I mean, Son Of My Father for pity's sake!).

Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights, of course; Running Up That Hill has to be in the running.

And Motorhead - "Motorhead (Live)," #6 in the summer of '81!

And of course let us not forget "Good Vibrations."

But surely this is a scientific fact, not simply by virtue of historical context (what might have been shocking the first time it happened loses it's ability to shock after repeated exposure) but in real terms....

And, actually, isn't 21 Seconds quite a good candidate for extremity:

1) Because of number of mcs on one track
2) Because of their DiY career trajectory
3) Because of the very homegrown sound - arguably looks less to American music than any other UK number one in history

If we were judging this on heaviness alone Jacob, then The Simon Parks Orchestra would probably come out on top for "Eye Level", and that would just be plain silly wouldn't it?

After careful consideration, my vote for most extreme #1 however goes to The St. Winifreds School Choir for "There's No-one quite like Grandma" - for a piece of maudlin drivel, devoid of any musical merit (and fronted by a rather unpleasant looking child with frizzy hair and the most terrible lisp) to have topped the charts for several weeks (if my memory serves me correctly) defies all logic.

Wouldn't So Solid win this heaviness competition?
And, actually, isn't 21 Seconds quite a good candidate for extremity:

1) Because of number of mcs on one track
2) Because of their DiY career trajectory
3) Because of the very homegrown sound - arguably looks less to American music than any other UK number one in history

1) this seems pretty irrelevant given the number of different voices alone is not really offering anything other than endorsing the concept of the track - there couldve been just 2 or 3 MCs rapping all the way through and it wouldve sounded the same

2) DIY career trajectory? theirs is no more DIY than the Prodigy's or Chemical Brothers surely

3) no more than 'Setting Sun'! or 'Firestarter' (tho that has a Breeders sample in it), or even Baby D's 'let me be your fantasy' i figure

the prodigy = the clash - refuse to do TOTP.

Of course another by-product of this policy was the Smart Es doing "Sesame's Treet" with a bunch of atonal, arrhythmic children performing the samples, which was possibly the most avant-garde TOTP performance ever.

Apparently however, what a lot of bands actually used to do was to buy the BBC guy a large liquid lunch then wander into the studio and do a slight remix of their original master tapes, maybe re-recording a couple of bits, just so that it sounded sufficiently different to the original to convince the relevant authorities that they'd actually re-recorded it.

("bring your daughter" wasn't a limited edition but it did come in a gatefold-sleeve picture disc and it was released on boxing day. that was before everyone else caught on to the marketing advantages of putting singles out just after xmas which might not have performed quite as impressively if released in, say, april or october)

now if motown junk (on heavenly records) had got to #1 in 1991...

Top Of The Pops making people sing live was one of the great rockist crimes against humanity, even the bands playing "real music" that they were trying to encourage, because Auntie knows best, sounded terrible on teatime telly rather than the usual smoke-filled auditorium.