The Who Vs. The Kinks

The Kinks are better

I do like the Kinks a lot but... OUT HERE IN THE FIELDS

the kinks are a warm hand towel, the who are a gatorade cooler dumped on your head

The Who up to the end of 1966, The Kinks after.

The Who up to the end of 1966, The Kinks after.

bingo

(but also possibly the who for a couple years in the early '70s, but then the kinks after that, too)

Have to push the Who's timeline to include '67, at least (Who Sell Out), and "Glow Girl"'s '68. So for what they did from '65 through to "Glow Girl," the Who.

I'm all for pushing it out, too, but not necessarily in favor of '67 Kinks. The early Who, though, is something I cannot vote against.

#modforlife

The Kinks up to 1970
The Who from 1971 to 1975
Then punk and synthpop happens!

Kinks by country mile

live at leeds vs. live at kelvin hall
quadrophenia vs. preservation

but on the other hand there's the great lost kinks album vs. odds and sods
"better things" vs. "eminence front"

went with the kinks, from the gut

i listen to the kinks way more and rate ray davies as a songwriter way more than i do townshend, but the who at their very best are something special. i wouldn't trade "anyway anyhow anywhere" for anything. plus they've got keith moon. went w/ kinks but it felt pretty close.

I listen to the Kinks all the time and the Who rarely, but:

Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere vs. ?

For a good handful or two of songs, Who are a force of nature, which Kinks never really managed. I think I have to go with the band that pushed the envelope the most, and that would be The Who.

Jinx, buy me a coke.

would also take arthur or village green over tommy any day (quadrophenia's a bit closer).

I think the Kinks had better songs, but the Who had a better overall sound.

Sort of hate Ray Davies but respect Something Else by The Kinks a lot. Anyway, The Who Sell Out alone makes this a no-brainer.

Why do you hate Ray Davies?

The Kinks. The Who are okay, but it's not even close

Kinks. I like quite a few songs by the Who but overall they have this mixture of lyrical clumsiness and musical bombast that really puts me off.

i'm voting for the who on the grounds that i think they would probably prevail in a fistfight against the kinks

Yeah Ray always seems like such a cool, interesting guy

He mostly comes off as cynical and bitter to me. Like he's making fun of everybody but isn't really a genius so it gets obnoxious fast.

Lyrical clumsiness, NickB? Pete Townshend? Beg to differ

i'm voting for the who on the grounds that i think they would probably prevail in a fistfight against the kinks

― trump le monde (bizarro gazzara)

only because ray and dave would rather punch each other out than punch anybody else out

rhythm section shootout:
john entwistle and keith moon vs. pete quaife and mick avory. uh...

Well, as a band, the Kinks were always a joke, not that they didn't stumble into some mighty interesting arrangements and had those great bg vox courtesy of Ray's spouse. But making musical statements wasn't their thing, songs were and Davies was great. (Quit being great around 1970; I hate virtually all the Kinks stuff from the '70s and really hate the "punk" Kinks crap. But saw them live in the '80s and had a great time.) But the Who did Sell Out and those early singles and I guess I can still retain some feeling for their big Concept Statements and all. Overall, the Kinks mean more to me; "Autumn Almanac" and "Berkeley Mews" and "Wonderboy" and "End of the Season" and "Most Exclusive Residence for Sale" will be records I play in my Trump-sponsored assisted living cubicle in North Dakota, along with side one of Sell Out. So the Kinks got my vote.

pretty tough one for me...so different, like the ultimate "songwriter" band against one of the all time "band bands"

not saying that dave and the rest of the band weren't anything but ray could have done "waterloo sunset" or "picture book" with any group of musicians at that time and they would still be classic songs (who knows, maybe a lot of that stuff was done with studio dudes)

the who is such an ensemble like certains bands like them or led zep or sonic youth or black sabbath or can just have a certain *sound* and way they interact that is unique to them

Those tunes are played out by classic rock radio but Townshend in corporating Terry Riley style tape loops in rock and roll songs was really technically innovative for 1971.

I think getting to that point and not being able to pull off Lifehouse was the Who's peak. After that their music was mostly about looking back or in the mirror.

The Who was definitely a band that was greater than the sum of its parts. Those live recordings from 69-71 they were a machine.

yeah live at leeds is insane

The Who were basically the first band I was every really into/obsessed with when I was first dipping my toe into music when I was 12 or 13 so despite all their faults it is would be hard for me to vote for them over like any other band.

The Kinks...I like, in a kind of distant, intellectual way, they have some great songs & R Davies obv is a great songwriter but they don't move me viscerally in the same way the Who does.

And UMS is right the Who are like the first proper "band", where the interaction between the players is more important than the actual songs, which is why Moon's death is so heartbreaking & their subsequent career is so painful.

The Who, everyting up to and including "Quadrophenia" (which I always underrated and have recently rediscovered and maybe becuz now I'm 40 & not 15 I now think of being their masterpiece) is basically perfect to my ears.

The Kinks have more essential music than the Who. The Who were more mindblowing their first few years, because they were so insanely over the top, so bombastic, and in their way, so musically revolutionary.

The guy who said "The Who up to the end of 1966, The Kinks after," completely nailed it. I couldn't have said it better. As much as I love The Who Sell Out ('67), and it's my 2nd fave Who album (behind My Generation), I don't think it exceeds The Kinks' "Something Else", so I call 1967 a tie. But really, the Kinks. And it's not particularly close.

The albums The Kinks released from Face To Face up to Lola Vs. Powerman are all superior records to the first two Who albums, IMO.

A Quick One in particular is riddled with filler and has lousy production.

Why are you comparing the first two albums to those, though, and not to the first three Kinks albums?

Because I'm dwelling on the idea of "The Who up to the end of 1966, The Kinks after" ... then again, I find The Kink Kontroversy a stronger record than A Quick One, too.

Oh, I don't at all. I think the Kinks' lackluster instrumental performances are still very prevalent on that record.

That said, the Who had a later start and, chronologically, I think it's fair to compare A Quick One with Face to Face. I disagree with your characterization of AQO as "riddled with filler," but might go with Davies' songwriting spate giving Face to Face an edge there.

Early Kinks albums aren't much cop... and as for lousy production, just ask Ray Davies about them.

A Quick One has 'Boris The Spider', 'Heat Wave', 'So Sad About Us' and 'A Quick One, While He's Away' ... the rest can gtfo.

The Kink Kontroversy has 'Till The End of the Day' and 'Where Have All The Good Times Gone', plus gems like 'The World Keeps Going 'Round', 'When I See That Girl of Mine', 'Gotta Get The First Plane Home', 'Ring The Bells' ...

Shel Talmy produced the first three Kinks and the first Who album. A Quick One was "produced" by Kit Lambert who shouldn't have been anywhere near a studio, IMO.

He did a far better job on the first Who album tbh.

Though, I think he'd probably produced the first three Kinks' albums by that time!

A Quick One has 'Boris The Spider', 'Heat Wave', 'So Sad About Us' and 'A Quick One, While He's Away' ... the rest can gtfo.

― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican)

boy, the us pressings never got anything right, did they? the us press of "a quick one" omits "heat wave" in favor of "happy jack"! yeah because god knows we can't possibly do without "cobwebs and strange"...

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

Who could do without "Cobwebs and Strange" ?

Not me for a kick off.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

Yeah, no wit, charm, or songs by The Who 🙄

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

A Quick One, live at the Rock n Roll Circus is one of the greatest things on earth. But if you want songs, wit, and charm, rather than dirty jokes turned into mini operas, then Kinks all the way.

I'm not a huge Tommy fan although I appreciate it a lot more now than when I was a teenager. Live, of course, not studio.

Shit, sorry for all the pentimenti in that post!

Shel Talmy produced the first three Kinks and the first Who album. A Quick One was "produced" by Kit Lambert who shouldn't have been anywhere near a studio, IMO.

― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:19 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He did a far better job on the first Who album tbh.

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:27 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Though, I think he'd probably produced the first three Kinks' albums by that time!

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:28 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not sure there's a major qualitative difference between the production on those albums but would venture to say that a big part of why The Who Sings My Generation sounds so good is because the Who, as a band, sounded so good.

it seems a pity that none of the Kinks 70s concept albums got adapted into movies (though apparently Bobcat Goldthwait is still hoping to film Schoolboys In Disgrace)

The Kinks of any era by a huge margin for me.

The Who usually have only two or three songs I love in their albums whereas the Kinks have two or three songs I don't like in theirs.

After bingeing on The Who recently, both live and studio, I have to say they were about a hundred times better live than on record.

Well that's another matter The Who live > almost every live act

Of course I wasn't around to see them live but seeing videos on youtube give you an idea of how good they were live.

it seems a pity that none of the Kinks 70s concept albums got adapted into movies (though apparently Bobcat Goldthwait is still hoping to film Schoolboys In Disgrace)

― soref, Thursday, November 24, 2016 2:36 AM (one hour ago)

i'm still bummed there isn't a black and white film version of "arthur." apparently ray davies actually finished the script for a proposed movie, but it never got produced -- it's too bad nobody has ever tried to revive it.

script stuck somewhere between the moon and new york city

After bingeing on The Who recently, both live and studio, I have to say they were about a hundred times better live than on record.

― Iago Galdston, Thursday, 24 November 2016 03:06 (eleven hours ago) Permalink

Yeah, I couldn't possibly agree with this more... in fact, I don't really think they ever got it right on a studio album in terms of capturing their live sound. Maybe Who's Next and Quadrophenia come close, but even they come nowhere near Live at Leeds or even any of the bootlegs. The version of Tommy on the expanded Live at Leeds exposes Kit Lambert's production on the studio album for the flat thing it is.

this is tough, as a kid i would've said The Who. feels like they are about even w mid-late 60s output, esp when you consider The Who actually recorded way more music than was released on albums. non-album singes, outtakes and b-sides being some of the best stuff they did.

the studio definitely failed The Who to a bigger degree than The Kinks. but there is still a lot of great stuff and i prefer that cruddy sound anyways to the cleaned up arena rock sound they got in the 70s.

"Sell Out" vs "Something Else" would be a hell of a rock block.

I mostly don't like being shouted at, so probably the Kinks, though I prefer the Who's musicianship.

it did occur to me last night that you could split the difference, and take The Jam and have the best of both worlds :)
voted the Who

I was just thinking that a word I would associate with the Kinks but which never in a gazillion years would you do likewise with the Who is 'charm', lol.

'Dogs' is quite Kinks-like, i.e. it has charm..

Maybe that's why Townshend doesn't like it.

The thing about the Who, and I guess it's Townshend, is the empathy and generosity of spirit that permeates the music for me, in giving voice to the concerns and feelings of his audience. I feel like there's a meanness or nastiness to a lot of the Ray Davies worldview that would have appealed to me when I was 28 but at 48, it's just not so appealing. Maybe it's there and I just don't remember it, haven't listened to them in ages

Pretty much disagree with all of that!

I'm probably wrong about the Kinks, I should listen again, but wrong about the Who? How so?

You're not wrong, it's your opinion, I don't have such high regard for Pete Townshend personally. One of best guitar players ever, of course.

OK, thanks

have tried for many years to understand the appeal of the Kinks. it felt good to give up. I don't get them & never will.

I'm probably wrong about the Kinks, I should listen again, but wrong about the Who? How so?

― Iago Galdston

I don't think you're wrong about the Kinks. I love them, but Ray, you know, this is the guy who wrote "Hatred". He could be pretty vicious, although he was always meanest to himself and Dave...

Townshend has, I think, a more generous spirit, but also has the Meher Baba thing, which I look at with a great deal of suspicion.

Davies is the prototype bitter fuck imo. Townshend is a hippie but every once in a while he actually reaches apotheosis.

What's wrong with being a bitter fuck? A whole deal of rock icons are/were bitter fucks.

i love the kinks, like LOVE them

but i can't have them go up against the Who and live to tell the tale.

Ray is an incredible songwriter but I feel like every member of The Who pushed the boundaries of their "job description" so far that they kinda changed how we think of all those jobs, for better or worse - not just Pete, but Rog, Ox and Moonie. To me they were like music Magellans ... some of those maps didn't exist before

Not to downgrade the Kinks... it's just I get kinda passionate/nutty when I talk about the Who

The Kinks. They had better tunes although they never made an album as awesome as "The Who Sell Out" tbf

Because Keith Moon played "yump dump yump dump yabbadaba yump dump" at least once in every song and STILL sounded like a profound genius, the Who were a more complete deepening of music hall traditions and edge this.

xxxp Agreed. I was reassuring Galdston that he wasn't crazy for hearing a nastiness in the Kinks. But Davies (outside of Something Else) isn't top tier bitter fuck for me.

I think yall are overstating the bitterness of Ray Davies.

And seriously overstating the 'generosity of spirit' of Pete Townshend.

Voted The Who without hesitation - Sell Out is one of my favourite albums of all time, the early pop/freakbeat singles are classics and the stadium/concept stuff up to and including Quadrophenia is some of the best rock of its era. I disagree about the production complaints too - Who records from '67 onwards sound great to me, especially Tommy/Who's Next. Crystal clear and punchy. I should add a caveat though that I'm not much of a live albums guy so am less likely to compare them unfavourably to Live at Leeds or whatever.

I like The Kinks fine but Arthur is their only great album and I don't care about anything they did post-'60s bar a couple of songs. The music hall element is really off-putting especially, even something like 'Dedicated Follower of Fashion' I find really grating.

Also in terms of the difference between Davies and Townshend as writers, Davies comes across like a smart guy with interesting observations about life and other people, whereas with Townshend it feels more like he's still working through things. There's a lot of confusion and inner conflict that comes across in his songs and I guess that just appeals to me more. I wouldn't quite call it generosity of spirit but he had more of a desire to communicate with his audience I think.

And seriously overstating the 'generosity of spirit' of Pete Townshend.

― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.)

he hit abbie hoffman in the face with a guitar, i think that was an act of profound kindness and generosity

Also in terms of the difference between Davies and Townshend as writers, Davies comes across like a smart guy with interesting observations about life and other people, whereas with Townshend it feels more like he's still working through things. There's a lot of confusion and inner conflict that comes across in his songs and I guess that just appeals to me more. I wouldn't quite call it generosity of spirit but he had more of a desire to communicate with his audience I think.

― Gavin, Leeds

townshend sounds like a guy who's working through things, ray davies sounds like a guy who's pointedly avoiding "working through things"

That's one of my problems with Townshend, it all ends up a bit Roger Waters, or vice versa. But, each to their own. He has got a sense of humour though, which is a good thing.

Thank you, Gavin, that is indeed more what I meant rather than generosity of spirit

And I remember the endless music hall numbers to be a real turn off, too. Like, there are a lot of them, right?

I think I like early Kinks a lot more than most people on this thread. It's true the early albums have a fair amount of filler but some of the singles and B-sides from '64-65 are just brilliant and to invoke the dreaded "influence" probably v important on garage rock/"freakbeat" not to mention the Who themselves.

Or to put it another way, All Day And All Of The Night >>> I Can't Explain.

All Day And All Of The Night = first RAWK tune

You Really Got Me, too

but some of the singles and B-sides from '64-65 are just brilliant

The singles are great, the albums are a bit feeble.

xp agree on early Kinks. The Songs We Sang For Auntie almost makes this the Kinks for me.

townshend sounds like a guy who's working through things, ray davies sounds like a guy who's pointedly avoiding "working through things"

― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Friday, November 25, 2016 12:00 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this seems otm, I find Davies more compelling, though I agree that there's a sourness and cramped quality to his worldview (as expressed in his songs at least) and understand why some might find that off-putting

Generosity of spirit.

If you read Rotten's 2nd autobiography, there's plenty about how Pete supported John and various up'n'coming punks without getting any recog at the time.

Contrast that with Tom Robinson's dealings with Ray's Konk label...

Being familiar with the entire catalogs of both bands, these observations can be made regarding my favorite albums from each:

The Kinks' Muswell Hillbillies is a record that can be gone back to time and time again; it's brilliantly both concise and descript. While The Who Sell Out is both an innovative and rewarding enterprise, it's still mostly a "kiddie-record" by a band still trying to find their footing. In forty years, The Who will be relegated to any number of "Greatests Hits" compilations while The Kinks' allure will endure in those entire albums from their late-sixties peak.

You say the Kinks don't have a record like The Who Sell Out, I say The Who didn't have a record like Lola vs Powerman or Village Green or Something Else or Arthur

Again Kinks music for me all the way, the Who don't have that many memorable tunes for me sorry... but the Who as performers would win this and many battles.

Generosity of spirit.

If you read Rotten's 2nd autobiography, there's plenty about how Pete supported John and various up'n'coming punks without getting any recog at the time.

Contrast that with Tom Robinson's dealings with Ray's Konk label...

We're not talking about their personal or business lives though.

Why?

Because I'm a Lou Reed fan, you think I care whether an artist is a complete tool in real life or not?

It's funny though, I've spoken to two people who have personal experience of Townshend and Davies and both of them said they were wankers - though in different ways.

...but the Who as performers would win this and many battles.

― No longer active (Moka)

I would submit that "battles" are biased towards bombast, but then again, all comparisons are subjective and favor one side or another. The passage of time is one of very few measures that provides a perspective less influenced by "fasion". Whenever these "who's better" arguments arise, i usually try to imagine my perception some time in the future. Respect.

The Kinks' Muswell Hillbillies is a record that can be gone back to time and time again; it's brilliantly both concise and descript. While The Who Sell Out is both an innovative and rewarding enterprise, it's still mostly a "kiddie-record" by a band still trying to find their footing. In forty years, The Who will be relegated to any number of "Greatests Hits" compilations while The Kinks' allure will endure in those entire albums from their late-sixties peak.

― bodacious ignoramus

right, re-run poll in 2056. :)

Yeah to me the Who had not only found their footing by the time of The Who Sell Out, they were already pushing themselves in all kinds of ways beyond it.

A run of seven top ten hits did not establish a footing?

The Who were pretty established from day one imo. "My Generation" is a pretty solid debut album, with insane title track, lots of cool catchy pseudo-motown pop cuts, and some actually decent James Brown covers.

i don't see Greatest Hits being a thing at all in 40 years tbh. and if they are, The Kinks will have theirs too.

The Who have a lot of deep cuts, lots of singles that were kept off albums, lots of great b-sides and things. for me it's difficult to consider "The Who Sell Out" without including all those amazing extra tracks that got added on w the remaster because i never heard that album until then. i imagine in the future people discovering The Who will know all about "Circles" and "Pictures of Lily" and "Dogs" (a very Kinksy song) just as well as the proper albums.

It's been a pleasure to look at certain tracks from Tommy in isolation. I'm a fan of their early work, so certain tracks particularly work for me as a extension of where they were around the time of The Who Sell Out. Particularly fond of "1921," "Christmas," "Go to the Mirror," and "Sally Simpson."

I suppose you all know this but I didn't, how much the Kinks and You Really Got Me were a direct impetus to Townshend. The Mark Blake book on The Who quotes Townshend saying the Kinks had filled a hole in the scene that he had hoped to get to first...

Yeah, we've been trtying to 'unpick' all-day, and you have to remind yourself - they were doing this in 1964 !

Say what?

you guys are right, "establish a footing" was something The Who did far before Sell Out - i guess it would have been far more appropriate to say that The Kinks were well established before The Who were -- i.e. Sell Out from 1967 is The Who's 3rd proper record; same year, The Kinks were on their seventh.

The Kinks getting banned from touring America 1965-69 seems like a big overlooked factor here. The Who were constantly on the road during much of that time. so while The Kinks may have had more records they ended up w little to zero footing in the US after those first hit singles.

'All day and all of the night' I meant..

have tried for many years to understand the appeal of the Kinks. it felt good to give up. I don't get them & never will.

― though she denies it to the press, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, November 24, 2016 4:07 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is me, but about the who. thread is making me want to try again anyway though lol

i mean i get the appeal of the who as a performing act but the songs never reached me

kinks songs, at least when they got mannerist, are like perfectly formed jewels

i suppose the most beautiful Kinks song is "Waterloo Sunset" which is very lovely but imo "Sunrise" is even more crystalline and transcendent.

i would also put "So Sad About Us" next to any Kinks tune for sheer melodramatic power pop goodness.

"Tattoo" is otherworldly.

I Can’t Explain; Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere; My Generation; The Kids Are Alright; A Legal Matter; Substitute; I’m A Boy; La-La-La-Lies; Happy Jack; Boris the Spider; So Sad About Us; A Quick One; Pictures of Lily; I Can’t Reach You; I Can See For Miles
I'm in awe of this run

Yeah, we did a 'singles run' thread some years ago, and I believe The Who won with that one.

.. Although there's a couple of not-singles there, but hey.

.. Although there's a couple of not-singles there, but hey.

Yeah these are just my faves from this period. I can never remember what was a single and what wasn't. I'm sure The Kinks have 15 songs from 64-67 that rival (or best?) this

i suppose the most beautiful Kinks song is "Waterloo Sunset" which is very lovely but imo "Sunrise" is even more crystalline and transcendent.

See, I don't get this at all, to me, "Sunrise" is drippy proto singer songwriter navel gazing sub Syd Barrett, yes, very nice but, so what? Waterloo Sunset is entirely on a different level, it's a fascinating song. I'm beginning to realise that the Who, like the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, are one of those British bands that Americans have an entirely different relationship with than Britishes.

Somebody explain just how wrong that description of "Sunrise" is. I can't muster the strength at the moment.

I've never even bothered listening to the lyrics, the sound of it is enough.

everyone voting in this poll should make sure that they take into account how awesome Starmaker/Soap Opera is before they make their choice imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8laVs0aMWw

You say awesome, I say embarrassing.

It's unfair to put anything up against Waterloo Sunset. Signed, American Fan of The Who.

^this

I like both of these bands, at most of their canonical high points and at scattered moments during their respective careers, but also have lots of problems with the two of them as well and don't have enough skin in the game to really want to get in between the haters and the true believers and be shot by both sides.

Also, Tom D otm throughout thread, especially here:

/i suppose the most beautiful Kinks song is "Waterloo Sunset" which is very lovely but imo "Sunrise" is even more crystalline and transcendent./

See, I don't get this at all, to me, "Sunrise" is drippy proto singer songwriter navel gazing sub Syd Barrett, yes, very nice but, so what? Waterloo Sunset is entirely on a different level, it's a fascinating song. I'm beginning to realise that the Who, like the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, are one of those British bands that Americans have an entirely different relationship with than Britishes.

I'm curious to know what these common American and British perceptions of the Who are.

"Sunrise" is pretty experimental. it is very introspective thru the minimalism. the emotion of it is very strong. the first time i heard it, it was late at night, and it felt like i was transported to that place. a little crystal cave for a few minutes. a dainty, nostalgic, proto-emo pop song. "Waterloo Sunset" it much more conventional. not that this is a bad thing, i love the "Sha la la's" and all that. it's funny i feel like "Waterloo Sunset" is closer to something like "See Emily Play", a blurred futurist psychedelic depiction of dry English drama.

imo think the Kinks have stronger songs and more evocative melodies/lyrics than than "Waterloo Sunset". "Rosie Won't You Please Come Home" is up there as one of the most beautiful pop songs ever. "Something Else" is packed with beautiful experimental pop.

The Kinks did have a better garage rock sound. a kind of ramshackle Victorian Country & Western. The Who when they jammed were often in danger of approximating Blueshammer.

i voted kinks from the gut, but am feeling some of the descriptions of the who are very off-tm. "sunrise" "dippy"? the who live "in danger of approximating blueshammer"?

re: sunrise - i will grant that this is a song that quite likely could not have existed without "waterloo sunset", and that the song doesn't quite nail the gorgeous melancholy of the earlier song, but it is nevertheless superb. as for the who's "jamming", one of the refreshing things about them is how little they were indebted to the blues for a british band of that era. not that there's no blues there, but particularly in the rhythm section you hear so much motown and surf music.

Man, "Little Billy" is so great - February of '68.

Ray Davies on Waterloo Sunset:

"I was embarrassed by how personal [the lyrics] were," he later wrote. "It was like an extract from a diary nobody was allowed to read."

-----------------------

Another sweet track is Oklahoma U.S.A.

All life we work but work is bore,
If life's for livin' what's livin' for,
She lives in a house that's near decay,
Built for the industrial revolution,
But in her dreams she is far away,
In Oklahoma U.S.A.
With Shirley Jones and Gordon McRea,
As she buys her paper at the corner shop,
She's walkin' on the surrey with the fringe on top,
'Cause in her dreams she is far away,
In Oklahoma U.S.A.,
She walks…

re: sunrise - i will grant that this is a song that quite likely could not have existed without "waterloo sunset".

I can (and annoyingly will) write much more on all this later, but for now I'll point out that "Sunrise" actually predates "Waterloo Sunset" by a couple of years -- Pete wrote and demoed it in 1964.

And people can say whatever about the Who's duff tracks or selling out or "all those reunion tours!" -- they never did anything remotely as mean-spirited and racist as "Black Messiah."

"Sunrise" always throws me as he culled some of its licks from it for "Pinball Wizard" -- purdy tune tho.

I'm curious to know what these common American and British perceptions of the Who are.

A sort of earnestness? Tho maybe that's just about rock music in general? You know, we love Queen and ABBA and you love the Beatles and Springsteen?

Prior to this thread I would never,have given "Sunrise" a second thought or had any idea people considered it a remarkable song.

Sunrise is just one of those lovely introspective Pete moments, like the Blue the Red and the Grey, or the middle 8 of the punk and the godfather, more effective due to the contrast with all the bombast and joking around

This whole thread is a example of everybody on ILM vmic.

It's fittingly fractious for these two groups

"Blue Red and Grey" is incredible.

voted Who but secretly hoping for tie (copout, not in poll spirit, etc...)

To be honest, as much as I love both of these bands, I'd choose Small Faces over either.

voted Who but secretly hoping for tie (copout, not in poll spirit, etc...)

Am I wrong in thinking this will be close to a tie? At first I thought the Kinks would take it in a walk, now not so sure

I'm going predict that ilm has a silent majority of lurking Kinks fans

I think The Kinks will take this, but both The Kinks and The Who have something in common in the sense that both bands went on for far too long.

The Who should have ended after Who Are You and The Kinks should have ended in about 1972. Has anyone actually listened to records like UK Jive recently?

I'm going predict that ilm has a silent majority of lurking Kinks fans

The Who should have ended after Who Are You and The Kinks should have ended in about 1972. Has anyone actually listened to records like UK Jive recently?

Well, UK Jive was released in 1989, that's kind of a long time after 1972. The 70s concept albums aren't very good but they still have the occasional gem on them, never heard any Kinks album made after 1976, but some people seem to rate them.

I haven't voted in this because I don't want to relegate either of these bands to 2nd place status.

eminence front was a real sleeper on the ilm classic rock poll.

Consider myself a Kautious Kinks fan: like the early singles, Something Else and Face to Face, along with the Kinks Kronikles, but not the concept albums they kollect from (this may be undue influence of Greil Marcus's Mystery Train) along with a bunch of stuff on Sleepwalker and Misfits- from the first, I'd particularly recommend "Sleepwalker" and "Juke Box Music," from the second, in order: "Permanent Waves," "A Rock 'n' Roll Fantasy" then maybe even "Misfits" and "Hay Fever"- but hate, hate, hate arena rock Kinks, particularly Low Budget, the concurrent live album (did it come before or after?) and pretty much anything thereafter, wistful returns to form or otherwise.

I saw the Kinks on the UK Jive tour and they were great.

eminence front was a real sleeper on the ilm classic rock poll.

Just remembering that my pal Mr. Fine Wine once made me a one-off Dave-heavy Kinks mixtape, which I need to go and find. Don't know if I will be able to play it but at least I can get the track list.

I'm kind of fixated rn on how Entwistle and Moon are the soloists in The Who (Townshend is the greatest of rhythm players but not really a soloist, right?) And they are sort of soloing the entire time. It's insane. And I can see how people would be turned off by it. I've been relistening to them and I didn't notice such things when I last listened to them decades ago.

xp James Redd

Right, that's what I figured you were addressing

Sorry, my post is sort of stating the obvious!

No it's fine. It was well-said, and you framed it within the context of your own perception of it in the space-time continuum.

Sorry, must have just read something by Barrington Bayley recently.

It's funny, I can hear "Pictures of Lily" as a Kinks song, I can even hear Ray singing "made my life so wonderful" and "helped me sleep at night" exactly how he would sing it

I'd like to hear an acoustic solo cover of "Better Things" by Pete. Just because it would be cool and make me cry.

I never knew Glyn Johns talked Keith Moon into playing more conservatively (if that's the right characterization) on Who's Next. He's certainly back doing his thing on Quadrophenia.

"Sally Simpson" in particular seems really close to someone actually playing a fill through the entire song.

I don't know if it's a challops or not, but I almost never mind Keith's excesses, it's only the other guy now and then.

Entwistle, Moon, Townshend, all brilliant, Daltrey is a lucky guy, not that's he's bad. I don't like Townshend's singing much fwiw.

Interesting. I dig his singing a lot. Obviously it's not really the right kind of voice to sing every song of that band though.

He's better than Dave Davies, but that's not saying much.

Lol. In the end I am probably a little more of a Kinks fan, but feel like ultimately these bands kind of complement each somehow and therefore for me the "Vs." doesn't make me want to take a side.

I like Dave's singing a lot too though, but again, he's just not going to sing every song in that band.

Wondering if Grant Hart should be dragged into this discussion.

I had "Susannah's Still Alive" as one of my first batch of singles when I was little.

I genuinely thought the first line sung was "Oh soz I soz soz chuck a budgie"

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Prediction time:

Kinks 28
Who 19

KINKS: 38
WHO: 11

I think more ppl will have voted than that, more like

Kinks 51
Who 38

xp

we're all agreed that the wrong band will win

I think more ppl will have voted than that, more like

Kinks 51
Who 38

xp

Probably right. Is that your bet or were you extrapolating mine to a higher vote count?

we're all agreed that the wrong band will win

there is no wrong answer here, but the who are the slightly more wrong answer imo

i know the Kinks is the correct answer but voting for the Who. ultimately going for the roar or Keith Moon ect.

If the Who don't win, commence throwing tvs out of hotel windows on my command

If the Kinks don't win this I'm quitting ILX

(ok not really but I'll be really, really upset and mad at you guys for a while)

Kinks vs. Who live vs. Kinks vs. Who studio mostly tells the story.

I honestly have a hard time deciding, though I think the Kinks have meant more to me overall. On the other hand the evaporation of nuance and lightness from Ray's songwriting and the band's production (starting around Arthur, great as much of it is) is a real bummer.

In general I find The Who's best work awesome in a way that the kinks don't achieve but I'm just so glad that something like Village Green exists.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

About what I thought--except a shit ton of votes! Thanks, all

the only non-disappointing election results all year

Impressive turnout, liberal democracy is not in retreat on ILX at least.

Downliner Sect innit?

^^^ classic ilx challops

i voted for The Who but this is one of those rare elections where whoever wins, we win!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cyh__QQD2js/hqdefault.jpg

one of my life goals is to find a jacket just like this.

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http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/20140506/5031681/tv-out-the-window-o.gif

Recount, starting in Wisconsin...

ilx in loving polite rock music shocker

*doffs chapeau, saunters off with a wink*

OH SNAP

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https://media.giphy.com/media/he9wnsMitEUwg/giphy.gif ">=https://media.giphy.com/media/he9wnsMitEUwg/giphy.gif

Fuck it, I give up. Kink's (whom I love) have no gif to compare...

Coming up: The Who live vs Kinks live. Results predictable.

Anyone read Richie Unterberger's Lifehouse/Who's Next/Quadrophenia era Who book?

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_lkjGlNFxqU/UhCyh7EC_3I/AAAAAAAAJus/deCh-z6UkFI/s1600/KAA+gun.bmp

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https://67.media.tumblr.com/ba7d317263efc9be7b89aaef87c9b6d5/tumblr_naixtlHT8F1s43l46o1_500.gif

Hahaha awesome gifs

Moony eating the flower!

too bad The Kinks don't have their own doc a la "The Kids Are Alright". best music doc ever.

We should do a rock docs poll

Who is singing harmony on "The Seeker"?

Are you talking about the harmony on the last verse?

My guess on that is Townshend.

Yes