Taylor Swift Glitchy Snake Gifs thread 2017 - Reputation

https://twitter.com/taylorswift13

pic.twitter.com/p2DyY0e2M3

— Taylor Swift (@taylorswift13) August 21, 2017

Glitchy snakes and courtroom sketches. What a strange aesthetic this album cycle is bringing.

The fact that Markers left these borads just before all this started cannot be a coincidence imo.

lol is she actually going to release music playing off kim kardashian calling her a snake

the roadhouse is proud to present...."the" taylor swift

hahaha

You just blew my mind Brad :D

Snakey gif 2:

pic.twitter.com/12Rfi8bso4

— Taylor Swift (@taylorswift13) August 22, 2017

At this point, I am going to be disappointed if Taylor's new stuff doesn't sound like Demdike Stare.

it's probably just going to be jewelry. there are gold chains with that pattern. and the song is called "timeless" which i'm sure some bullshit jewelry company uses as a slogan. maybe bulgari?

i'm most curious about how she's going to adapt to pop radio being allergic to women with distinctive voices. the 50 shades song felt like a test of the waters on that front.

It's going to be a perfume called Snake Oil, duh.

nice to see taylor swift has cornered the market on "GIFs you find on old multimedia spam CDs from like 1995"

between this and the kesha album cover it's been a weird set of associations dredged up

We have title

pic.twitter.com/xMBBukfZPs

— Taylor Swift (@taylorswift13) August 23, 2017

what the http://i.imgur.com/4LECykW.jpg

the role of taylor swift will be played by kirsten dunst

Sorry. But this album will always be called 'Glitchy Snake Gifs' to me.

https://img.discogs.com/uk3khACZ6mND3Zuts3wR5cb6L74=/fit-in/589x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1647920-1293249041.jpeg.jpg

I'd like to know more about that midget.

Also if we're going this route

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/0042/products/081227977764.sml_0dffa3e7-ca6f-4d2c-9e31-844c157a60d3.jpg?v=1469056955

It's too bad we just did a pre-cover cause this reeks of New Jersey

*checks SF giants world series odds*

this might be insensitive, but if this is where her life's at where she felt this would be the most interesting direction she could've gone in, then, uh, yikes

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Gail_Ann_Dorsey_-_The_Corporate_World.jpg

Part of the pivot to video strategy includes replacing all text with the name TAYLOR SWIFT pic.twitter.com/CqzJlDsrgb

— Tricia Gilbride (@tricia_gilbride) August 23, 2017

Considering the font, this had better be Taylor's pass at Mercyful Fate.

early prediction is that she loves joni mitchell so much that she skipped right to making her own dog eat dog

Does that mean on her next album she'll be doing a video duet with Billy Idol?

early prediction is that she loves joni mitchell so much that she skipped right to making her own dog eat dog

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson),

you just wanna see those Dolby synclavier credits

her wet look 'do' reminds me of Diana's on the cover of 'Diana'.. the Chic-produced one.

Someone let me know if she uses "Because my ass is on the back of my body" as a lyric

would you settle for "I can't make my front turn into an ass"

my prediction is that this album will be good because taylor swift tends to produce good music

otm ^

until then, the tryhard backlash of the century

yeah there will be dumb stuff online

my prediction is that this album will be good because taylor swift tends to produce good music

Unless she decides to make more songs like Shake it Off and Bad Blood, because those were two of the biggest hits from her last album.

It can be hard to remember that she and Kendrick had a #1 hit, it just sort of disappeared. I still hear "Blank Space" and "Style" on the radio, but not "Bad Blood."

I still hear Bad Blood pretty regularly at the roller rink.

all i can think about is how neil tennant called her "the mrs. thatcher of pop"

pic.twitter.com/TRSnDrWJiY

— James Grebey (@jgrebes) August 23, 2017

I was hoping her taking a break was to clear people's minds of all the annoying kanye/kim bullshit that nobody but the press and fanboys+girls gave a shit about. that way she could come back with something
a little fresh and removed.... instead the vibe is... "guys i am back with some zingers. remember Bad Blood? shit gonna get real snarky but in a slightly sad and ineffectual way"

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/FileLibrary/ProductResources/Images/142060-L-LO.jpg

https://img.discogs.com/9B2kNHGBbgAraRaq7xE-5G96E88=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3009241-1440582480-6448.jpeg.jpg

lol at that crj one

ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES SWIFTY A HEALTH GOTH apparently

lol at that crj one

― niels, Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:39 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idgi

Interesting read focusing on her album launches since 2010 and what's changed:

https://cultural-learnings.com/2017/08/24/erasing-herself-from-the-narrative-taylor-swift-and-the-absence-of-intimacy-in-the-launch-of-reputation/

I know she's done stuff like "Mean" in the past but I'm hoping Swifty's savvy enough not to make an entire album about the Perils of Celebrity. I don't need to hear her Yeezus.

is this the Kinsey scale pic.twitter.com/x4Y00i9nbJ

— anna (@waltdisknee) August 23, 2017

lol

Or 3 albums away from D&D character alignment.

lol

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/c2/62/46c262e5f528a42cad10e27aa19faa77--robert-trujillo-lars-ulrich.jpg

Kirk: "I'm not sure what to do with my hands?"

is it debuting on YouTube? anyone know times?

It debuts in your skull.

New single's out, i'm listening on apple music but it's probs on other streaming services too

this is actually great

- me, and no one else

it sounds scarily like meghan trainor's me too on the chorus :/

Well here we are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K0RzZGpyds

the near-unanimous hatred for this is baffling and if this were by anyone but this pop season's designated critical villain I suspect people would love it

it sounds scarily like meghan trainor's me too on the chorus :/

Chorus was the only part I liked! Until I read that.

xp I can't speak for everyone, but I'm just sick of songs that sound like this and are constructed this way and I kinda (maybe wrongly) assumed she'd rise above.

Guess what! The Right Said Fred comparisons are in fact intentional

https://genius.com/Taylor-swift-look-what-you-made-me-do-lyrics

Written By
Taylor Swift, Jack Antonoff, Richard Fairbrass, Fred Fairbrass & Rob Manzoli

I like the first minute or so.

Yeah had a feeling Jack Antonoff produced this. Kept reminding me of Lorde at points.

get you love drunk off my hump, my lovely little hump

lol that the Fairbrass bros actually got credited on this, that is some weird post-"Blurred Lines" lawsuit shit

Man I don't mind them getting some cash.

So then the real target of the song is Robin Thicke and the family of Marvin Gaye.

rhyming "time" with "time" eh

available for Taylor's 6th studio album reputation and help boost your place in line? Here's how…The two Unique and Collectible Magazines created by Taylor will be available exclusively at Target on November 10th and for pre-order online immediately at www.target.com/TaylorSwift. Each collectible edition (Volume 1 and Volume 2) of reputation magazine will include 72-pages of:
Personal poetry and photos
Artwork by Taylor
Handwritten lyrics
Behind-the-scene photos from the "Look What You Made Me Do" video shoot
Exclusive poster

wow people really hate this song don't they? i think it's fine. i guess i'm team taylor now.

that's from a press release i just got. sorry about messing up the c/p

lol @ Target

Seems like a blown opportunity to not also have a tie-in Taylor Burn Book.

^^ yes

I'll appreciate having some "Never Again"-style pure spite back on the radio, and the production is interestingly sparse and drum-machiney at points, but the song structure feels bizarrely labyrinthine for a comeback single. Like obvs the chorus chant is an effective hook (worked well enough for the credited co-writers back in the 90s), but the Taylor tabloid-sparring that takes up the rest of it feels like a weird fit for, say, a dance remix during the drive-time DJ set (not that I don't expect some procrustean effort to start showing up on my radio within the next week). Like, I have no idea at this point whether top40 stations will go for it in the long term.
Although maybe that's kind of a good and fun thing to see for a pop release of this magnitude?

Huh, I like everything about this *except* the chorus. it does sound a hell of a lot like the Lorde album, though, right down to the vocal rhythms.

i don't think there's anything particularly challenging about it as a sonic fit for the current wave of top 40. (other than that it's by a woman and is not completely anonymous-sounding.)

my feelings about it aren't strong either way. the meghan trainor similarity did strike me before the right said fred one. (is that songwriting credit official or just random trolling on genius?) like, i'm surprised to hear that ppl hate it but would also be surprised if ppl were overwhelmingly in love with it.

Thank you @taylorswift13 ❤️ what a marvellous reinvention! #imtoosexy #lookwhatyoumademedo https://t.co/malXQ8uMQe

— Right Said Fred (@TheFreds) August 25, 2017

even 'Me Too' is better than this

now i have 'green light' stuck in my head

Song rules but this album launch narrative is so tone deaf - you're gonna make an album about how poorly the media has treated you? Sounds familiar

The song feels like a discarded '1989' outtake. This is the first time new Taylor music sounds regressive and a step backwards to my ears. Singing "the old Taylor is dead" is the most blatant sign of this. TS had worked her way into a position and status where she didn't need to make such on the nose statements. The old Taylor was dead with every new album. Having to declare it out loud now just feels so... off. Show don't tell imo.

verse = that lorde co-writer bro's shit all sounds the same. chorus = bad. feels like 00s Madonna. i sort of like the synthy stuff on the outro though.

sounds like somebody whose name rhymes with Baylor Bift is getting down and out about the liars and the dirty dirty cheats of this world

I haven't liked any of her first singles since 2009 so my mild appreciation of this one is a surprise.

there are too many words in this

I can't believe that the old Taylor is completely dead if someone is still making terrible asides in the middle of her songs.

For me, Taylor's feuds and disputes as subject matter have always been the least interesting thing about her. When I jumped on the train during the Fearless days because her songs were so warm and nuanced and amazingly crafted, I never would have expected that part of the recurring themes of her career was going to be "welcome back Taylor Swift - and here's the celebrity she's singing about this time." It's depressing self-parody at this point.

I haven't been listening to enough pop to figure out how well it fits into that zeitgeist. What's good these days? It sounds pretty good for a pop song to my ears. I guess.

What celebrity is she singing about?

Kayne.

Kanye

Dammit. Kanye.

Video teaser up.

Official #LWYMMDvideo world premiere.
Sunday 8/27 at the @vmas pic.twitter.com/tjAxr8qdsY

— Taylor Swift (@taylorswift13) August 25, 2017

see, I give zero shits about any feuds (although people lapped this up when Britney or Gaga or even _1989_ did it) and find almost all of her old material cloying, suffocatingly regressive, no better crafted than the material women on country radio are writing or getting now to zero fanfare (see: the Liz Rose that just dropped, which stans of Old!Taylor Swift have mostly ignored) and terminally boring.

This is not boring. the references I'm seeing are Peaches, Ladytron, unreleased Britney tracks, "Die Another Day," (this one from me) Jessie Malakouti -- and all of these are good to great! they're also good to great enough to stand alone even if you give zero shits about aforementioned feuds.

also anyone who praised "We Are Never Getting Back Together" is not allowed to complain about songwriting

We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together is great!

on some level i "don't care" about her feuds but on the other hand her hit song "i am never ever dating jake gyllenhaal again" was hilarious to me

'we are never' >>>> this

I don't follow celebrity profiles or care about biographical parallels, so whomever she dates hasn't bothered me. I already shut a dude down yesterday who cackled about which guy she's "writing about now."

Wait, Taylor is premiering her video at the VMAs. Ain't Katy Perry hosting this year? pic.twitter.com/tVzDpRIKWg

— Saeed Jones (@theferocity) August 25, 2017

ok i was done complaining about taylor swift i felt gross n w/e and then i saw this n absolutely fuck taylor swift pic.twitter.com/ws9LYkmeFu

— darcie (@333333333433333) August 25, 2017

lol no

i'm already so tired

yah that's overreaching it xp

Oooh, that's why she waited an extra year to put out an album, so that Kanye's mom's death would fall on a record-release Friday. Cold, Cruella.

(Imagining Taylor with a wall calendar and various dates important to her enemies marked in blood-red.)

I didn't listen to this song yet but "Look what you made me do" generally being a sentence culturally linked to domestic abusers is an extra layer of *thinking emoji*

lol that the Fairbrass bros actually got credited on this, that is some weird post-"Blurred Lines" lawsuit shit

crut with the "Rob Manzoli actually wrote all Right Said Fred's songs solo" conspiracy theory could really liven up the *thinking emoji*

the new song is like a really boring "piece of me"

the new song is like a really boring "piece of me" about as good as "My Humps."

"I never wanted to lay a hand on you. And look what you made me do. But you know what, Rey? Blessings come in disguise, esse! You see, I realized something last week, homes. My eyes were opened. And I realized what you were doing. And not only you: All of these people. I realized that each and every one of you are living vicariously through me. You were stealing MY passion, MY love, MY energy. You were stealing MY LATINO HEAT!"

swap in the appropriate names for the Rey Mysterio records and "VMA" for "Latino" and ditch the "esse" and "homes" asides and the beatdown reference, and you have much better lyrics. Thanks Eddie Guerrero, RIP

biggest evidence this is kanye-related is how much it sounds like an 808s track, although that might just be too obvious to mention

don't forget kim, who was the one who brought the snake into it in the first place

If her upcoming album were called "Latino Heat" I would be psyched.

I got to the "because she's DEAD!" line and clicked the X as a kneejerk reaction, this is just too real for me

my condolences on your death

whiney otm

I thought it was Calvin Harris fans who started the snake thing

I mean we could do this all day ("kingdom keys" is probably meant to ==> Kim Kardashian)

wow, to think this on the same day Carly Rae Jepsen dropped “Cut To The Feeling (Kid Froopy Remix),” drag her kween

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs9ntHhDmAg

the "can't come to the phone right now" line is so weird to hear in 2017...did the Old Taylor not have her own cell # ?

christ this is terrible. Katy Perry must be pissing herself.

this is not good

not sure why people are so hung up on the telephone thing -- it's just a standard pop Thing at this point, from Little Mix's "How Ya Doing" to, uh, "Telephone"

see, I give zero shits about any feuds (although people lapped this up when Britney or Gaga or even _1989_ did it) and find almost all of her old material cloying, suffocatingly regressive, no better crafted than the material women on country radio are writing or getting now to zero fanfare (see: the Liz Rose that just dropped, which stans of Old!Taylor Swift have mostly ignored) and terminally boring.

I have no idea what Britney or Gaga have ever done, in terms of public musical drama. And iirc correctly nobody at all lapped up Bad Blood. I don't know anything about cloying or regressive, but after hearing the first few Swifty records I went on an extensive country binge back in 2011 attempting to find more that I liked. I did find more country artists who I thought were really good, and most of them were women. But overall (as is usually the case for me and you could sub in almost any genre you want here), I came to the realization that I didn't like "country music" as much as I just liked this one artist.

I hadn't even heard about the Liz Rose album, but will make sure to listen to it since she was a key Swift collaborator.

britney: "piece of me" and other _blackout_ tracks directly addressing her tabloid drama, and not really working in any other context ("I'm Mrs. Most Likely to Get on the TV for Stripping on the Street When Getting the Groceries": so #relatable!) which was really pretty restrained as far as tabloid-baiting could have been for her (iirc she or her team specifically did not want to address it, though she did *record* a lot of very pointed material; "Guilty" is a very clear counterpart to "Cry Me a River.") (come to think of it, Justin Timberlake's whole "Cry Me a River"/"What Goes Around" era was this exact same thing, suggesting this is yet another accusation leveled primarily at women)

gaga: uh, everything? at least everything circa "The Fame"

the difference is that the britney tracks were actually compelling songs

and this is the fundamental difference because I just don't see how this is the track that *isn't* compelling, where glurge like "White Horse" or "Fifteen" or "Mine" supposedly are. it isn't even a pop vs. craft thing, either -- "We Are Never Getting Back Together" is awful and gets worse every year

Yeah, I'm sorry. I meant to say that I don't pay enough attention to Britney and Gaga to even know what they would have done along this ilk. But did Gaga really have musical feuds as far back as The Fame?

not feuds, per se, but definitely tabloid-y controversies. until "Paparazzi" most people saw her as having nothing *but* those

Lady Gaga is a bit weird though given that songs like Paparazzi were recorded before she was much of controversial name. Like I remember when that album was released, there was very little fanfare and that it took a while for her to really take off.

I'm kinda wondering if this is gonna be similar to when Shake it Off came out and the reception was mostly negative (see: the 1989 thread on this site) but by the end of the year it's winning 4th place in pazz & jop and getting hailed as a perfect pop song

I can't decide what I think of this one yet but the verses/beat/'telephone' segment are pretty good. If the full albums all sass and anger and electroclash beats I'm down.

Don't get why she doesn't like Kanye's tilted stage though. When I saw him live it was one of the more interesting parts of his surprisingly-not-great show

I'm kinda wondering if this is gonna be similar to when Shake it Off came out and the reception was mostly negative (see: the 1989 thread on this site) but by the end of the year it's winning 4th place in pazz & jop and getting hailed as a perfect pop song

I can't decide what I think of this one yet but the verses/beat/'telephone' segment are pretty good. If the full albums all sass and anger and electroclash beats I'm down.

― josh az (2011nostalgia), Friday, August 25, 2017 11:47 AM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, again, I still haven't listened to this, but all the "HO HUM NOT COMPELLING" stuff on this thread is probably gonna look very stupid when this thing is Number One for two months

i'm sure it'll be very popular on the radio, all her stuff is - that doesn't mean i have to like it or think it's interesting

Yeah, I certainly don't think it's going to flop or anything.

i have no idea how "shake it off" managed to be that high on p&j, esp since i never noticed anyone who disliked it initially coming around to it

ubiquity breeds surrender

I've dug her since the debut and I dig this.

I listened to it, song is good, haters gonna hate

It took me a good year and a half to come around to "Shake It Off", especially the stupid rap.

As someone with no interest or knowledge of the real-life drammer behind it, I like this song - it's memorable at least - sounds a bit like Britney's Circus. But the 'Fred chorus is an anticlimax.

not crazy about this song but the one aspect of the backlash to it that really grinds my gears is the resurrection of the worst normie music opinion: suspicion of sampling

V OTM

this song is deeply dippy

that liz rose record isn't even listed on her wikipedia page lol

excited to dive into it

yeah I admit that it got basically zero coverage at all anywhere (it seems to be either self-released or on a *very* small label)

wish Caitlin Rose would put out a new album :(

same

the stand-in is so wonderful

yeah, it's a perennial in my house

the new Nicole Atkins (Goodnight Rhonda Lee) has kinda been scratching that same itch for me recently

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm not yet sick of people shoehorning Dril references in at every opportunity but it would be nice if they went for some deep cuts from time to time

sorry simon the flattening effect of the internet means it's all candles and corncobs from here on out

That's the sequel to Bedknobs and Broomsticks, yes?

Good grief

Thank you so much to @taylorswift13 & @jackantonoff - very kind!
(📸: Karl Adamson) pic.twitter.com/BWqrcCnYas

— Right Said Fred (@TheFreds) August 25, 2017

Can't knock the Saul Bass-y lyric visuals, though.

And we got interview

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/right-said-fred-praise-cynical-taylor-swift-song-w499547

Just about a week ago, the members of Right Said Fred got a mysterious offer. A "big, contemporary female artist who hasn't released anything for a while" wanted to interpolate the British duo's tongue-in-cheek Nineties hit "I'm Too Sexy" into a new song, the group's Fred Fairbrass recalls.

...In fact, if Swift's song had been too sexual, the group may not of have let her use it. In the past they turned down a Southeast Asian artist who wanted to change the lyrics to being about bondage.

"But we had no reservations, because we like her," says Fred, adding that they deduced it was Swift who'd requested the song from the clues they were given. "To have an artist as big as Taylor Swift give you the thumbs up and introduce us to her fan base is amazing."

"It also proves the point that 'Sexy' wasn't just a ludicrous 'Purple People Eater' kind of nonsense song," Richard says. "There was more to it than that."

im happy for them, i guess this is a good side effect of the Blurred Lines verdict

Song's growing on me. Like the pre-chorus. Hate the second verse rap and the bridge. Chorus stands up only because of the RSF link.

like I think "I'm Too Sexy" will probably get licensed more now (not that it already isn't used semi-frequently), and it's a better song than this new Taylor Swift song that I already forgot the name of.

but i do like the song. don't really get the hate in here w/r/t the music. like i said upthread, lyrics & narrative conceit of the song & presumably the record (based on the cover) is hilariously tone-deaf

the cover does look incredibly amateurish

and it's like... not a good photo? of a person of whom there are approx 1000000 great photos?

that's it though, that's all you get from me as far as caring about taylor swift goes as of 25 aug 2017

The UPS package cars with Taylor Swift’s album cover on them will roll out in cities across America, beginning with Nashville, Atlanta and New York City on Sat., Aug. 26. UPS will announce via social media when the package cars will arrive in other cities. Fans who snap a picture of a decaled UPS package car, at a safe distance, then tag @UPS and share the hashtag #TaylorSwiftDelivery may receive an improved opportunity to buy Taylor Swift concert tickets.

omg i remember when red was on the papa johns boxes

you, a rube: this is just like Harry Potter omg

me, a smart online bro: this is just like[searches]...this dril tweet

— brad shoup (@bshoup) January 26, 2017

lmao

the only swift delivery song i will acknowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txQUD0Rymsc

an improved opportunity to buy taylor swift tickets?? dad that's just what i've always wanted!@@!!!!1111eleven!!11

lol @ professional music critics resting so much of their criticism on the assumption that Taylor Swift actively sought to borrow from Right Said Fred rather than writing a song and then realizing after the fact that it sounded sort of like this other song

I had that song in my head in the last week for some reason that I'm stuggling to place.

lol @ professional music critics resting so much of their criticism on the assumption that Taylor Swift actively sought to borrow from Right Said Fred rather than writing a song and then realizing after the fact that it sounded sort of like this other song

― crüt, Friday, August 25, 2017

this is a short laugh for such a long sentence

that's why I don't get paid to write

I don't have the economy of words, just excellent, unassailable ideas

why do u think that crut? it seems less likely than the alternative?

really? i think it seems far more likely that they realized it after the fact.

yeah, post-Blurred Lines they probably have people specifically employed to catch this stuff

or an app of some sort

In the past they turned down a Southeast Asian artist who wanted to change the lyrics to being about bondage.

WHO

this all reminds me of

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCW7AP3CYAA4MU7.jpg

i purposefully avoided this cos i think Kanye is not bad and people shit on him all the time to maintain a dumb and exploitative narrative and this feels like yet another instance of that

tomorrow im visiting my niece who is a serious Swift fan, interested in hearing her reaction...

a+ comment from jim in vancouver that flew over everyone's head

i'll explain: he's my lois lane

maura OTM

I like the verses to this. I do not like the chorus. It's about a million times better than "Shake It Off". If I was an A&R person, I would draw up whatever contracts necessary to market this as a split A-side with "Swish Swish".

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/08/taylor-swift-and-ticketmaster-launch-controversial-ticketing-system/

Okay so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmd-ClpJxA

i am so confused by this song, this video, this meta-winky-self-referential thing, "I don't like your tilted stage", all of it

i feel like a grandmother looking at memes

Really disturbing video

Something that’s especially troubling in all of this is the fact that you can purchase Swift’s new album up to 13 times to receive further boosts to your spot in line. There is even a “progress bar” showing how your purchases are advancing your place in the virtual line.

Fuck this, this is worse than Lars suing his fans. This is Swift exploiting her fans in lamest way. I hope everyone steals her album and then doesn't go to the show.

alternatively, it is rewarding her die hard fans

i like the video. song is still pretty blah.

xpost By encouraging them to buy 13 copies of her album to get better chances at concert tickets? Yeah, she loves her fans, they are so die hard.

Don't other acts have fan clubs that let fans get first crack at tickets? If you're going to take advantage of your fans at least have join some sort of premium club or something, don't use them to goose your bottom line.

I mean, come on:

After fans pre-order the CD (from big box retailers like Target or from Swift’s store only—no indie record store support here), they’re informed that if they’d like a guarantee they’ll receive Reputation it on the day it’s released they’ll have to fork over an extra $48.03 to ensure timely shipping, which brings the cost of one CD purchase to $63.03. It bears repeating: $63.03. For a single CD. This nonsensical move seems aimed to appease UPS, one of Swift’s many corporate partners for Reputation and the tour supporting it.

Fuck that. Why can't they just include a unique code in your CD purchase that gives you access to a presale? This is gross in the most gross way, like Amway or some shit.

I mean, I'm sure it's not as bad as it sounds. Or maybe it is.

I like pop music, but this stuff just isn't any good. Great marketing, though.

which brings the cost of one CD purchase to $63.03.

Evil

Also this also feels like some chart book-cooking to possibly break the Adele sales record.

this is exploitative gimmick crap but it's really no different than the exploitative gimmicky crap that accompanies virtually every major-label album release not insta-dropped

That's an evil system, and clearly way more than is justified on the grounds of distinguishing fans from bots.

Swift's website's description of "boost activities" is pretty open ended

FYI Depeche Mode did the exact same thing with their last album

I heard this on the radio today and it was much better in that context than listening closely.

She looks uncomfortable in the video, comes off insincere

Song is not terrible but for all it's specific vendetta it seems weirdly impersonal

ctrl+f 'new jersey'

"Shake It Off" basically came into its own as a weddings / Christmas office party song. "But it's so silly" starts to lose traction as an objection when you're in a deliberately silly environment.

Conversely, I think this song will sound amazing at drunken house parties and at trashy dive bars. "But it's so gross and desperate for attention" starts to lose traction as an objection when you're feeling gross and desperate for attention.

xpost Dan, did Depeche encourage you to buy multiple copies of their album to better your chances for tickets? And give you a little progress bar to work toward?

The differences between Depeche Mode's and Taylor Swift's fanbases don't really need to be pointed out, right? This is p damn gross, anyway.

The differences between Depeche Mode's and Taylor Swift's fanbases don't really need to be pointed out, right?

drama-obsessed teens of the 1980s vs drama-obsessed teens of the 2010s?

Also, unlike DM these days, Swift doesn't exactly need tricks to goose her ticket and album sales. I mean, she sells millions and plays stadiums. Is scalping really that much of a problem for her? Are there people being shut out of 100,000 seat two-night stands? Anyway, who cares, it's ugly and greedy and rewards rich people and hurts fans with less money.

I'm surprised she went with UPS. She could have partnered with Amazon Prime and required fans to buy special memberships. Also, what does it take to get the be a Level 5 Swift fan? How much do I have to buy? And my degree from Taylor Swift University, that gets me to the front of the line, right? That's what the guy who talked me into signing the contract told me.

Next time maybe Swift can partner with the US government and recruit fans to enlist in the Army. Government contracts are super lucrative. There's pop star money, but then there's Pentagon money, and money is money.

https://imaginedlandscapes.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/simpsons-e1332535100213.jpg

Are there people being shut out of 100,000 seat two-night stands?

Almost certainly though.

If Depeche Mode had done things like this in the eighties, it would be a different thing.

the cover with the articles repeating "taylor swift taylor swift taylor swift taylor swift" remind me of when john malkovic goes inside his own head in BJM

haha this quote from the ad is great:

So she's collaborating with Ticketmaster #VerifiedFan to create an exclusive program to help YOU get the best access to tickets in North America, in a really fun way.

Song is not terrible but for all it's specific vendetta it seems weirdly impersonal

― niels, Monday, August 28, 2017 2:22 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, she's pretty much driven anything interesting or distinctive out of her music.

lol @ "in a really fun way"

all it's missing is an exclamation point dotted with a heart

I was thinking those drama-obsessed teens of the eighties have more disposable income than the drama-obsessed teens of the tens

Are there people being shut out of 100,000 seat two-night stands?
Almost certainly though.

Oh, come on, not because of *scalpers.* If she really gave a shit about scalpers there are all sorts of cool things she could have done. Instead she went the most uncool route for the most personal gain, in the ugliest, most cynical way.

lol that the Fairbrass bros actually got credited on this, that is some weird post-"Blurred Lines" lawsuit shit

They are actually going to earn money from this? I think the Fairbrass Bros + The Other Guy have just committed the crime of the century.

The video is worth a post as well. Filled with cartoon cats. Yeah, this is about pumping kids for money or turning them into unpaid publicity workers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i5B1asvFxY

Fun! And unique activities, like buying t-shirts and albums!

Oh shit, I didn't even realize your progress bar can apparently move up *and* down! So you can make it to green and then fall back to orange or whatever if you don't keep spending enough time and money on her. Fuck that. Who needs Black Mirror.

At this point I'd just as soon assume Swift is in league with the scalpers, because I imagine many people will sure as shit prefer to just pay more for a seat than pay to give her a lap dance.

did Depeche encourage you to buy multiple copies of their album to better your chances for tickets? And give you a little progress bar to work toward?

Yes they did, or rather, the digital firm that they partnered with to run this thing did, and if it's the same bunch here I'm not surprised. So I'd really encourage everyone to stop thinking that Taylor and team are somehow uniquely evil.

Trust me there was a LOT of loud angst over how this system worked when the Depeche sales were going on, plenty of frustration. It worked out for me very nicely -- I bought a copy of the album via their own presale setup, and posted literally twice in two, three weeks on Facebook and Twitter saying "Hey here's the deal, and it would be fun." It was annoying and I said as much when I did post it, but there ya go. I ended up in the first group to get tickets and bought twelfth row tickets, which was very nice, and then I immediately deleted the partner app from my accounts so I didn't have to think about it again. So as I said, worked for me well, but a lot of people were clearly gunning for more, especially since whoever was actually first in line for any particular show gets to meet the band at said show.

I think there are so many differences. Depeche plays here Wednesday, and afaict there are still tickets, so for starts demand is vastly different. Their latest album has sold a few hundred thousand world wide, vs. Swift's millions, so they could use a boost on that front. They also don't (I'm pretty sure) have a legion of teen fans not in charge of their own spending. And DM also have not (to my knowledge) partnered with a huge corporation like UPS to sponsor/underwrite their tour. They've also had decades to foster a relationship with fans, many of whom have been on board since the band was a cult act, and the days of them being propelled by pop hype are long gone; people want to go not because they are being pressured by their peers/hype, but because they've had decades of commitment to the group. That's why good seats are competitive, not because everyone and their mother wants to see Depeche Mode.

Like, I get the gist of this, especially for something like Springsteen, who is playing unique solo shows for a month or so in a 400 seat theatre in one place. Or Hamilton, which likewise plays relatively small places. But for a huge pop star who sells out stadiums to demand more from her fans for the potential privilege of giving her even more money? That's so unseemly. So yeah, I'd say right now it's pretty evil, more money for the sake of money tied to the already gross FOMO scourge of social media.

I have no problem granting that Depeche Mode are evil also.

It's not that it's surprising that there are differences, but the similarity of the basic toolset between the situations remains the same. Buy multiple copies of the album, move higher in line. Watch your place in the progress bar. Etc. etc. There's no need to overexplain something here! That the model has now hit this high profile of a level isn't unexpected. And if it wasn't Taylor, it would have been somebody else.

Is it true that the progress bar goes both ways, that you can watch your odds get better and worse?

That's what the video suggests, it goes up and down in there

And DM did that, too? See, what is the point of that, except to demand more and more and more? That doesn't establish fandom, that establishes wealth, free time and fanaticism.

those three things will always get you a ticket to anything

Exactly! So who needs a scheme?

if it wasn't Taylor, it would have been somebody else.

― Ned Raggett, 28. august 2017 15:59 (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And whoever else does this should be called out for it as well. But it's going to hit artists like Taylor Swift hardest because they are trying to do the csr-popstar thing.

I mean, she could have said for every dollar donated to one of these thee charities you get a better shot at my tickets. Same idea, and the affluent still have a leg up, but instead of benefitting personally she could at least have been helping someone else. There are any number of either more equitable or at least more defensible tacts she could have taken. I mean, it's a business, she's entitled to rip people off however she wants. But to claim it's for the fans, let alone fun, is bullshit.

(tacks not tacts, I'm having bad typing luck this morning)

I have no problem granting that Depeche Mode are evil also.

otm. wankers.

Good for the Right Said Fred guys to get billed as co-writers, but I can't even hear the sample.

Is it is sample or just an interpolation?

As far as I can tell, it is solely the cadence of the chorus.

I'd never actually listened closely to "I'm Too Sexy" before. I just knew the hook. It's a lot better than I realized.

Taylor Swift's fanbase is definitely younger than Depeche Mode's fanbase ever was. Teens? it's preteens and little kids. The progress bar thing is so fucking gross, and the CD costing $63 is just abhorrent. She's arguably the biggest pop star in the world, this is not necessary. Everything about this album rollout is so tone deaf and hilariously offensive and out of step with reality. Also, I love "I'm Too Sexy" and the similarity here is soooooo tenuous, but w/e because Right Said Fred are cool and deserve $$$ from Ms. Swift.

the cd costs $15

But if you want to guarantee it arrives on the day it comes out you apparently have to pay an extra $45. Thanks UPS!

thread is a yelp review from a person that summed a restaurant's menu and exclaimed "It costs $368 to eat here!"

More like "It costs $368 to eat here? But it's a McDonald's!"

"This place sucks, from the moment we walked in the door we were treated with disrespect. $50 just to get on the waiting list for a table? No thanks. We went across the street to Katy Perry's, which was having a kids eat free special."

this shit metaphor really gets gross when you consider that "bon appetit" exists

the cd costs $15

$10-12 if you can get your mom to drive you to Target that day.

I insist on buying it from Taylor's site, so that all the money goes directly to her.

Actually, why would you buy it from Target, since you won't get any fan points for that? Sure, my mom might drive me there to buy it the first day it is on sale, but Taylor will not know how much of a fan I really am. Is there a place for me to send my receipt?

it would be hard to replicate cereal box top and mail in rebate technology

sometimes taylor goes to target to buy her fans chipotle or whatever, maybe if you go to target she'll already be there and she will know how much of a fan you really are

only hot dogs, starbucks, and pizza hut at target. can probably buy chipotle chiles en adobo at a super target, though.

i don't think she would give them the burritos right there, that's absurd

she would give them a fifty or whatever

it is a well known fact that people at target would like to eat chipotle

most targets attract a nearby chipotle village. it's true.

I think the smartest thing to do would be to buy every copy of Taylor's CD at Target, and keep doing that every time they restock, and then all the other fake fans would be mad and Taylor's people will be like, whoa, why have we sold 2000 copies at this one Target? And then they'll call Target and they'll say this one guy keeps buying them all. And then they'll say, huh, this must be Taylor's biggest fan. And then they'll track me down and I'll show them my receipts and they'll say, yikes, this really *is* Taylor's biggest fan! And then they'll offer to let me buy a 10th row ticket for $1000. Suck it, haters.

would love to be that guy instead of the guy street teaming a consequence of sound article

Plus, when Taylor's CDs get repurposed as a proprietary crypto currency, I'll be the only one (besides Taylor, of course) able to buy anything, from concert tickets to burritos to whatever. I call this "playing the long game."

lmao JiC

you will be richer than her! why would she have any copies of her own cds

To get a good spot at her concerts

the cd costs $15

― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, August 28, 2017 1:07 PM (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

did you read the thread? ordering the CD from Swift's website costs $63. this is all related to the "progress bar."

You're all losing so many points on your progress bars with these insulting posts.

what the fuck is even happening

The cd costs 15. The 48 on top of that is optional.

Wait, do they check the language used in the posts? And is ilx-posts included? I want Taylor tickets for my trouble.

pfft optional if you're bereft of devotion maybe

exactly. paying the extra $48 is better for your progress bar. fucked

I'm not sure that is true?

copy and paste it under every outraged post

always assumed there was at least a most basic understanding of how cryptocurrency might work underneath every all star ilx cryptocurrency burn

I am definitely outraged, btw, and I think the whole thing is disgusting. You can by the album 13 times for the progress bar, wtf? But I'm not sure the UPS surcharge helps the progress bar.

when I gift the album to 12 nieces and nephews, it had better help my progress bar. you are welcome to just buy the album once or not at all.

my bad, the insane surcharge does not directly benefit your progress bar. both are still supremely fucked

"Teens? it's pre teens and little kids"

uh hang on now.. this is a shot from the last tour

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Shawn+Mendes+Performs+1989+World+Tour+Live+4soXw-VsoPnx.jpg

xp it is less of a surcharge and more of a service that a person may pay for when shipping any fucking thing. you can get a quote here: https://wwwapps.ups.com/ctc/request?loc=en_us

(you may need to change your loc value to something like loc=island_of_outrage to get an accurate quote)

She could just send the cds earlier. You only get progress points for buying the album from the website, and then you have to pay fifty dollars to get it on release day. Come on, it's gross.

you have to pay fifty dollars to guarantee its arrival on release day. this thread is gross.

it's cool how it's possible to be exhausted about something you don't even care about now

anyway, Taylor done fucked up and pissed off ANIME fans. My coworker says this is Yuri on Ice, an anime about an ice skater i guess and Taylor bit her style...damn g

Viendo el video de Taylor Swift, solo pude pensar en esto:#YOI #YuriOnIce pic.twitter.com/UbQVS6NxKc

— Fran 🍦 (@francylorena) August 28, 2017

Massive L incoming

you have to pay fifty dollars to guarantee its arrival on release day.

― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), 28. august 2017 20:52 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You think this is okay?

oh shiiiiiit

Taylor Swift ‏Verified account @taylorswift13 16h 16 hours ago

Studio Ghibli is some pretentious ass cartoon shit that doesn't even make any sense. more like Howl's Moving Butthole. #AmericanDad FTW!

lol

I got the new Queens of the Stone Age record the day before it was supposed to drop and I just went with Media Mail. Didn't even spring for two-day shipping.

Yeah, but how many progress points did you get?

Thought so.

Taylor Swift is an RPG

you have to pay fifty dollars to guarantee its arrival on release day.

― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), 28. august 2017 20:52 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You think this is okay?

― Frederik B, Monday, August 28, 2017 12:00 PM (forty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes and it is at the very least not outrageous

hard disagree

Yeah wtf??

for fifty bucks' shipping I better die

that is how much next day air shipping costs. jesus fucking christ.

select regular shipping, which is free, and you will probably get the album in time (which is any time you might get it because you don't require this fucking album to live)

Unless you are the kind of superfan who would order the album from her website, let alone Target. Duh.

ok but what RPG is Taylor Swift this is important

Oregon Trail

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0c/9a/f2/0c9af21bddbc0caef168b8a9e0ac1769--video-game-quotes-computer-class.jpg

Personally I plan to order a copy of the album in every one of its shipping permutations, from overnight to a boat from Asia, so that all my copies arrive staggered and I get the experience of receiving the album for the first time again and again and again.

taylor swift is one of the Dragon Quests

The idea of paying or pestering your friends to boost your progress seems very Farmville to me.

https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/image/upload/c_limit,e_sharpen:150,f_auto,fl_lossy,h_360,q_80,w_640/v1/gameskinnyc/w/v/w/wvw69jphtjcvtdrln2-d0663.jpg

1) 50$ for shipping is outrageous. That's on UPS, but fuck that shit.
2) You have to preorder the album for the progress bar. Why would you preorder the album unless you can then get it on release day? Otherwise, you could just go buy it. And you have to pay 50$ to get it on release day, because they won't send the albums out earlier.
3) It's gross.

fuck this

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles/1/7/6/8/6/9/3/rich-stanton-on-playing-human-in-earthbound-143713169247.jpg

reading that consequenceofsound article and looking once more into taytay's dead dead eyes has filled me with a very deep sense of loathing and above all a sense of shame on behalf of all of you who ever believed she was some sort of pop messiah

she and her people got mad with power, it happens

I do kinda like the single, though. It has a bit of a k-pop vibe, I think?

i can't believe she's still milking her stupid rivalries w/far more likable pop stars

far more likable pop stars

otm

I think there are so many differences. Depeche plays here Wednesday, and afaict there are still tickets, so for starts demand is vastly different. ....
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 28 August 2017 13:53 (seven hours ago) Permalink

yo Josh I played the progress bar game but my friend cancelled so I have an extra ticket to the chi show if you're down

I'm still remembering Ned or someone else relaying the bad things that some uber-DM fans said after realizing that they bought *multiple* copies of the album and that still just bumped them into a high tier, didn't guarantee them great tickets.

I imagine someone at the Taylor Swift show having a stack of CDs, and they're angrily flinging them at the stage, but their tickets were just not quite good enough so they're falling way short.

that's the unstated bonus for the front row ticket holders, they end up getting not 24 CDs but more like 39-43, depending.

rip TS, sliced to death by compact discs

the priority shipping is an optional thing, correct? it may be price gouging but i dont see any problem w an artist offering new products towards hi end customers. her music video has her in a bathtub full of diamonds (which is pretty rad for hyper-capitalist iconography). pushing materialism/consumerism/self-destructive tendencies has always been a major part of pop life.

how is this any different from cell phone games, marketing pointless status symbols to "whales"? or any business that offers a premium option to customers? this is smart and effective social marketing on her part. there is a strategy in pushing the personal/social/rivalry narrative thing, it is a mode she has explored all her career. it is certainly lucrative, it plays well in New Media, it endlessly provides viral content like shade gifs, free promotion.

i hope in secret her and Kanye and Kim are hanging out watching Twin Peaks.

the priority shipping is an optional thing, correct?

I think the thing is she's charging priority shipping fees like they are airlifting the fuckin CD from Japan

no everyone who shops at target the release day has to pay $60. "look what you made us do!" says the sticker on the cd you get. you do get a free icee though

The difference is that the whaling strategy is tied to the ability to get concert tickets.

xp self inflicted icee brain freeze boosts your progress bar

I'm not signing up all the way to see if paying more $$ means more of a chance at tickets, as much as it would be hilarious to be conned into buying an album to see if I get more Taylor points for buying two albums, or one album with insanely high shipping.

I get why these stupid presale things try to link to actual album-buyers after having been to a few shows where I attempted to do the fan presale thing, only to later realize the bulk resellers were also "fans" and they'd bought up all the good seats.

The scammiest part is that the album-to-ticket linking is being done by the Ticketmasters and Live Nations of the world, which, in the former case, now directly lets you resell tickets. They're really having fun targeting all the market segments.

the priority shipping is an optional thing, correct? it may be price gouging but i dont see any problem w an artist offering new products towards hi end customers.

an absurd shipping cost is not a premium feature, it's just gouging fans. you don't get anything extra. as someone said upthread, people get things the day of with fucking media mail. it doesn't have to be that expensive, especially if you get nothing extra.

her music video has her in a bathtub full of diamonds (which is pretty rad for hyper-capitalist iconography). pushing materialism/consumerism/self-destructive tendencies has always been a major part of pop life.

this image really struck me. you're absolutely right, but at this moment in time, the culture is not sympathetic to this sort of self-referential obnoxious flaunting of wealth, mostly because that's Trump's M.O. so along with the "media treats me unfairly" angle, Swift already has two things in common with Trump.

how is this any different from cell phone games, marketing pointless status symbols to "whales"? or any business that offers a premium option to customers?

lol ok first of all wtf does 'whales' mean. cell phones are not primarily status symbols. cell phone games are just another product, and yeah i think in-game purchases are egregious gouging

https://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118

You clearly haven't played enough Marvel Puzzle Quest, flappy ;)

if I could buy Taylor Swift albums to get MPQ points... hmm

What CoS are we talking about? Anyone got a link?

https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/08/taylor-swift-and-ticketmaster-launch-controversial-ticketing-system/

Heh mh, I'll be down there anyway, but thanks for the offer!

The shitty lining of this Swift scheme, as sort of discussed above, is that she is claiming this is a more just system, one that will reward her fans, but in this case fans are the people who have the most money to spend on her products, but the people with the most disposable time and income were never the people who had trouble getting tickets in the first place.

:D

lol @ "I would like to be excluded from this narrative"

xxp but where only money or connections got you tix before, there will apparently be activities to boost your progress bar that will not require money.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vShCqrZiK_0/hqdefault.jpg

xxp but where only money or connections got you tix before, there will apparently be activities to boost your progress bar that will not require money.

― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), 29. august 2017 00:31 (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did you read the explanations? The free alternatives are capped. You can only watch the video five times a day, and it won't really give that much of a boost anyway, while you can buy as many sweatshirts as you want, and get a boost every time. It's designed for exploitation.

There's a limited amount of tickets, and yeah, in theory you can get in line with doing free stuff, but it's not as effective as forking over extra extra cash, so guess who will get the good tickets?

so they aren't weighted 1:1. it's still an option you didn't have before. now get to work!

so it is just an improvement and not perfect

have you descended into madness?

The option before was to prove you weren't a bot through sms...

these are systems solving two different problems

What problem do you think is being solved? There's no improvement here, it's taking solutions that were being worked out, and turning them into an exploitative machine aimed at the fans.

an exploitative machine aimed at fans that just can't help themselves from buying shit

(also it is incrementally better. you are just the bernie bro of ticket sales systems.)

What is wrong with you?

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Mr-Krabs-Blur-Meme.jpg

xp eh, I am not trying to be too harsh here, Fred, as we are talking about taylor swift concert ticket dispersal systems.

and you can marvel at how grumpy i've become but this shit is maddening:
"the CD costs $60"
"the CD costs $15"
"you must pay $60 to guarantee getting it on release day"
"you can buy it in stores on release day"
"but that might not boost my progress bar"
"you can buy it on itunes on release day and boost your progress bar"
"i want a CD that costs $15 or less and is available on release day and boosts my progress bar"
"you sound like a ridiculous human being with v specific consumerist desires that you expect to be fulfilled, but it looks like you can buy it at target on release day and then enter a code on her website to boost your progress bar."

how much is taylor paying you

You mean how many points?

Do you think if there were a clothing alteration shop called Swift Tailor she would sue them? How about Tailor: Swift.

i'm only half-following this but i'm sure someone has mentioned that amazon can send you new releases so they arrive on their release day if you preorder for free (or prime shipping at worst) which makes any defense of express shipping an album via ups for $$$ completely absurd.

taylor is paying me in pupusas (from a shop, Swift Pupusas, which she acquired in a lawsuit)

her commercials have her in a bathtub full of pupusas (which is pretty rad for snack iconography)

god bless the pupUSA

Man, if Swift sold pupusas I would be so there (for points, at least). That's creeping toward Shakira country, though, so there might be some beefing.

only victims are the actual fans who buy a bunch of merch they can’t afford and still don’t get good concert tickets, imo

people who paid a shitload to scalpers, or as they’re known today in the era where stubhub and its peers are owned by ticketmaster/etc, “resellers” will still be rich and capable of paying for resold tickets. some of those tickets will be from people who bought merch on this pay for access treadmill, so the money makes it way back to the artist/merch people instead of being pure scalper profit

the private booths, VIP areas that are venue-owned, will keep scamming. this isn’t a huge change in the concert tickets game, it’s just a different gaming of it, and it’s not a system contrived by Taylor Swift’s people!

the pupusas are delicious

I should say only *new* victims, the real people who are losing out are the fans of artists who can’t afford tickets because the prices are out of control, while some seats are left empty because the system doesn’t care if seats are filled, only tickets sold

they’re as screwed as they’ve always been

only victims are the actual fans who buy a bunch of merch they can’t afford and still don’t get good concert tickets, imo

She's the biggest pop star in the world. this will be a lot of fans.

imo the only solution is playing venues with only general admission tickets, and letting people who are short, kids, or need to be seated at the front, followed by people in order of height so they can all see

I was doing some math and I realized the vast majority of people in the world, billions, will be locked out of seeing Taylor, let alone snagging good seats. Taylor Swift, if you are reading this, make this right!

by my math she could squeeze in a couple shows in the evening per day by hopping on a jet outside the venue and flying enough time zones west to do another 7pm show

Or just build a giant Earth-sized stadium.

Josh's ardent defense of Swift's Ivory Tower obliviousness is bizarre. She is the biggest pop star in the world: she has a responsibility to use that power in a benevolent or, at the very least, benign way. It can't be repeated enough that Swift has said nothing about Trump, Black Lives Matter, equal rights, marches, protest. Beyonce uses her power. So does Kanye. Plenty of musicians with young fans setting very good examples right now. To see Swift emerge for the first time in the Trump era with this stale schtick and repulsive self-referential meta-thing is so disappointing. I really like her pop records. Exploiting your fans and having absolutely NOTHING to talk about but yourself is fucked up.

Um.

You got the wrong guy, I'm innocent, there are witnesses.

yup

flappy bird has opened my eyes. i ate the red pupusa.

Tay practices proper security culture, and always masks up before engaging in protest.

Beyonce uses her power. So does Kanye.

lol

Kanye and Taylor are basically mirrors of each other at this point

i wonder if she's taken one look at what Katy Perry is doing and gone "nah.. "

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/22/23/3D8B76FA00000578-4250766-image-a-36_1487807325664.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qPWkjk5nNc

Boy do I regret naming my two girls Katy and Taylor.

i'm only half-following this but i'm sure someone has mentioned that amazon can send you new releases so they arrive on their release day if you preorder for free (or prime shipping at worst) which makes any defense of express shipping an album via ups for $$$ completely absurd.

FYI, I've pre-ordered a few new releases from Amazon and never gotten the physical disc on release day. In the case of the last Metallica album, it didn't hit my PO box until about 10 days after street date. They did give me MP3s of the album on release date, but it took forever to ship and they never offered an explanation.

in this topic: people shocked that an artist with roots in the country scene is not denouncing the president half their fanbase loves

Didn't you hear the news? That Taylor is dead. RIP Old Taylor

This would have been the perfect opportunity to slap on a fake mustache and do a Sasha Fierce/Chris Gaines. Then she could have charged for a PPV special setting the two against each other in a cage match, whose conclusion reveals they were the same person all along. And then you have to pay a fee to turn it off, otherwise it will just keep charging you, like a power meter or a promotional magazine subscription that sneakily renews itself.

I feel frustrated whenever it becomes a discussion about what Taylor 'should' do. Taylor has proven herself time and time again to be a pop-star exemplar of the white female Trump voter, a woman of privilege who chooses to hold on to her power by self-victimization and lashing out at others, to the point that her first single (her major artistic thesis!) is an expensive and useless takedown of her perceived rival-- a black male auteur. I wish her work would be observed as more of a window into the mindset that produces this kind of North American entitlement rather than people armchairing their own versions of how Taylor could be a better progressive

boom

I like that take, which recasts her rivalry with the self-consciously awakened Katy Perry in a new light.

Well, "wokeness" is just white people learning the language of progressive politics in order to maintain white supremacy, and Katy is the new best-cultural-example for that idea since Paul Haggis' "Crash", but whatever

hell yes

irony meter just flickered, TH ;)

My lack of ironic quotes around "awakened" was mostly do to me typing and walking, I don't think Perry's "progressive" politics are worth a shit, I think she's just as facile as Swift, and ultimately just as mega pop star neo fascist (in the "We Will Rock You" Queen sense).

but really fgti's take there seems excellent and not just because it justifies my steadfast, never-wavering suspicion and dislike of dead dead dead-eyed taylor swift and her dead-eyed music

I just meant that Swift not saying shit about shit beyond herself is the flip side of Perry saying specifically that she is saying shit about shit beyond herself, even if ultimately both reach the same dead eyed end.

Ha, dead eyed xpost!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUuH4TEmgLo

What is this necessity of people who are not in any way unprivileged constantly extending victim narratives both socially and artistically? It's like, a method of occupying power while ducking accountability. I'm not just thinking of Taylor... this is like a trope in the past decade of songwriting

I also think the idea that Taylor is dead-eyed and a snake or any of this is really stupid also, she's a super-talented songwriter who for whatever reason feels an artistic need to write songs that strengthen her perceived position within the world instead of, like, being about anything that means anything to her listeners

I think the dead-eyed thing comes from how calculated it all is. I disagree that she is a particularly super-talented songwriter, but I do give her credit for writing the entirety of "Speak Now" herself after the usual country route of co-writers and collaborators. Even if there was a ghost writer involved (who knows) she was still willing to take all the credit *before* she knocked it out of the park, so good on her. And then she decided, you know what? I am going to dump this down to earth persona and become a dominating pop star, and I am going to hire literally the biggest hit making team in the world - people who have had great success with singers less talented than me - to do it. I think that's different from, say, someone like Madonna or Beyonce, who seems to care about cred/vision/hip producers. Taylor Swift is just, like, prosperity gospel incarnate.

Some levity:

remember: you can't spell "jack antonoff" without "jack'n off a ton"

— Lmao Del Rey 🌹 (@NOTCHRISTYLER) August 29, 2017

you guys do remember Kanye praised Trump on stage AND visited him at Trump Tower after the election, right? those were things that actually happened.

yeah but he was under mental duress at the time and afaik hasn't been seen or heard much from since

oh good it's the life of pablo thread

Can somebody point to a time when Kanye was not under mental duress?

http://img.usmagazine.com/480-width/kim-kardashian-kanye-west-ice-cream-inline.jpg

"Kanye used his power". Yeah, to publicly support Trump. He then told everyone he made that bitch Taylor famous and put her and other female celebs in the nude in his video to make some grand point, including Rihanna next to her abuser Chris Brown. But Taylor bearing a little grudge over that whole circus is somehow an analogy to female Trump supporters something something.

Misreading Taylor is a long, proud tradition. Despite her debut album's sex-positive lyrics, for a long time she was seen as the ultimate anti-sex prissy virgin preaching abstinence by people who never listened to / read her lyrics. That continued until she'd had enough public boyfriend for the other image to take over. She was both a virgin and a whore and somehow to blame for both.

Maybe she should've spoken out about some big issues. She's never been personal on her social media but maybe, yes, that's something everyone with followers should do. But it's funny that even in this thread she gets more flack for not being that kind of online presence than Kanye does for _telling his supporters Trump's great_. There are many other celebs of various shapes and form who haven't done it but people are getting desperate screaming TAYLOR PLEASE SAY SOMETHING. Somehow she has to endorse all great things and denounce all bad things in this world before she's allowed to sell music and talk about herself. If that kind of demand was aimed equally at every big star, maybe it'd be less silly.

If you want to gauge her real political loyalty, if that's even relevant, she's obviously more entrenched in Democratic cliques than just about any other musician in the USA. Her list of friends might as well be a map of the most squarely Democratic network in young American pop.

Unfortunately Taylor herself has never been interesting to study for her critics, who are getting increasingly hysterical projecting their own image onto the name Taylor Swift. Leading up to this release she's been away from the spotlight more than any other time in her career, and so it seems people have been so impatient to see her again they've simply made up shit out of thin air. Coward. Trump supporter. Nazi queen? Sure why not.

I thought the lyrics to this song were dull and unnecessary on first listens, but maybe there is, now more than ever, a need to collect all her public personas, as in the music video, and mock the chorus of accusations, because the demon visions of "Taylor Swift" are more parodic than ever.

this song sucks

it really does

What makes a pop star A Good Person? Is it tweeting out support for or against movements? Is that the relevant box to be ticked? Is the influence of even a popular star so important, or is twitter an echo chamber? Maybe it makes some difference, but is it the litmus test? Is saying 'Trump's a dickshit' the key?

What about being known for giving a lot of money to charities? Does that contribute, or is it just some money out of a lot? If you're starting down that road, it's a question.

People went at her for not speaking out, ie not making a tweet, like some other stars, when Kesha faced her trial against Dr Luke. A powerful woman in the pop industry, how could she not? But then she donated hundreds of thousands at a crucial point in her court procedings, and made a statement that way. Was that more or less important?

She used the suit from an asshole DJ, taking that fight, acknowledging her privilege, using it strategically, made some important points in her case against him, in the age of online harassment and pussy-grabbinbg, then paid big sums of money to relevant sexual harassment victims groups. Is that more or less important than an Instagram post about the women's march?

Silly stuff. But these are the things people work up a rage about. Social media posts. A narrow, very specific way of establishing righteousness.

good post, abcfsk

misreading taylor is indeed a long, proud tradition, practiced by dudes who did not grow up in the South as teenage girls during the height of Swift's country phase

good points in this thread on many sides, many sides

but i do appreciate abcfsk taking the one with far fewer voices these days

Very much so, fgti and abcfsk's takes really add something, and cut through the clutter surrounding this from original sides. I'm looking forward to the album.

This song is still very weak though.

So what about the lyrics make y'all think it's about Kanye? I haven't watched the video – are the clues more explicit? The song itself sounds like any other kiss-off.

Well, "wokeness" is just white people learning the language of progressive politics in order to maintain white supremacy

― fgti

I like this. I'd say woeness = white people learning the language of progressive politics to assuage their complicity with white supremacy

xp "tilted stage" is p explicit

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/cct-kanye-1024-08.jpg?w=620

man i knew "wokeness" was bad but i didn't realize everyone else would realize so quickly

that could be anyone's tilted stage

http://i.imgur.com/73gfwOs.gif

xp

lmao

I like this. I'd say woeness = white people learning the language of progressive politics to assuage their complicity with white supremacy

wait, is "woeness" a neologism you've coined or just a typo?

a typo I've coined

Nice to meet you, where you been?
I could show you incredible things
Magic, madness, heaven, sin
Saw you there and I thought
Oh my God, look at that face
You look like my next mistake
Coining typos, wanna play?

it's funny that Kanye actually supported Trump irl yet TS is 'pop-star exemplar of the white female Trump supporter'

yeah, statement is utterly meaningless. white women 18-29 went 52-40 for Clinton.

citation needed

(not that it's meaningful anyway because Taylor Swift's fanbase is not a 100% overlapping venn diagram with "white women 18-29," but)

evol, you mean white women without a college degree

Flopson otm. Clearly Kanye is the quintessential white female Trump supporter.

if white women went 53% for Trump overall the 18-29 figure quoted above sounds about right

it's funny that Kanye actually supported Trump irl yet TS is 'pop-star exemplar of the white female Trump supporter'

― flopson, Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:18 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

taylor swift is white tho

I'd make some snarky post ITT about the ridiculousness of Kanye vs Taylor as a political frame, but I don't really want to be part of this narrative.

ya the point is not to debate whether or not TS is or is not a Trump supporter, any more than it's useful to debate whether or not that-woman-in-a-pussy-hat-is-or-is-not-a-TERF...

"Presenting oneself as a victim" is a tactic used by lots of established songwriters once they've achieved some level of success, and they seek to maintain the cultural capital that they've accumulated. I don't think there's functionally anything different between what Taylor is doing here than there was when George wrote "Taxman", or Pink Floyd did "Pigs", or Dire Straits did "Money For Nothing", or [redacted] did with [redacted]. It's people-in-positions-of-comfort-and-privilege building a world in which they are victims. And (instinctively, to my aesthetic radar), it's the same mechanism that turned comfortable white people (and Kanye too I guess) into momentary Trump supporters.

this isn't a "tactic" newly employed by Swift, though ; listen to how she sings the last chorus of "Tim McGraw".

fighting the urge to defend Money For Nothing, which I don't think really fits with those other songs at all

xp Mmm I see what you're saying but I'm not talking about writing cathartic relationship songs as being the same vein of this kind of "victimhood chasing".

Sorry my mind is in overdrive but I've spent the last few years analyzing the lyrics to "You Belong With Me" as a song sung from the perspective of somebody with paranoid delusions, and about how "Wildest Dreams" has enough poorly weighted stanzas to conclude that a Swede was in the room when the lyric was written, I really think a lot about Taylor Swift I guess

Even more obvious to me than white rockers from the 60s and 70s are all the subsequent alternative rock heroes who pretty much all traded in victim-narratives. Somehow complaining about being oppressed by the system gets more of a free pass though, even if the cage in which you are a rat is dripping with gold.

If the frame is victim-narratives then Swift's got lots of others. Why is the new song worse in this regard than "Mean" or even "Picture To Burn"? I'd accepted long ago that victimhood is a key narrative device for her ("Better Than Revenge", etc.). It doesn't make for her finest moments (though "Tim McGraw"...), I agree.

I don't really know how to say this, but the ugliness about Taylor pursuing this beef, and Kanye too (to an extent), to my eyes, is that it implies a kind of Identity Politics Cold War in which both parties (a white woman, a black man) are seeking to define each other as oppressed by the other. The fact that race/gender isn't explicit in this beef doesn't matter-- (neither party would dare have such persistent or vociferous beef with a black woman or an LGBTQ entertainer). It feels as if there's a power struggle at play from both parties that seeks to capitalize on stereotypes (Taylor is a lying snake, Kanye is a misogynist) and definitively label the other party as the aggressor. Does this make any sense at all? It's the OJ trial except with shitty songs

I confess I know nothing of her "beef" with Kanye; I am generally ignorant of pop culture news.

We'll see if the rest of the album ruminates on beef. It seems like each album's had one of these and they've been singles. She knows her audience.

Does an artist have a responsibility to lead her audience past trifles into deeper subjects? But maybe the idea is that she could try, and (it seems) isn't, and that's disappointing.

It's people-in-positions-of-comfort-and-privilege building a world in which they are victims. And (instinctively, to my aesthetic radar), it's the same mechanism that turned comfortable white people (and Kanye too I guess) into momentary Trump supporters.

― fgti, Tuesday, August 29, 2017 5:11 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago)

honestly man this is just a meaninglessly simple lens through which to view art, imo. rich and famous people have struggles, failures, embarrassments etc too, and it can be the basis for genuine expression and art. i get the feeling this is more of a proxy fight (taylor and "her fans" vs kanye and "his fans") rather than an actual criticism of her as an artist.

one thing ilx is good for is watching dumb culture emerge in real time... i forgot i started this thread!
Kanye vs. Taylor Swift: Dumbest beef of all time

If the frame is victim-narratives then Swift's got lots of others. Why is the new song worse in this regard than "Mean" or even "Picture To Burn"? I'd accepted long ago that victimhood is a key narrative device for her ("Better Than Revenge", etc.). It doesn't make for her finest moments (though "Tim McGraw"...), I agree.

Agreed. This is why I'm not put out by this song; it's a mediocre first single using familiar Swiftian tropes.

Where I disagree: I'd consider every song you mention among her best, especially "Tim McGraw."

I don't really know how to say this, but the ugliness about Taylor pursuing this beef, and Kanye too (to an extent), to my eyes, is that it implies a kind of Identity Politics Cold War in which both parties (a white woman, a black man) are seeking to define each other as oppressed by the other. The fact that race/gender isn't explicit in this beef doesn't matter-- (neither party would dare have such persistent or vociferous beef with a black woman or an LGBTQ entertainer). It feels as if there's a power struggle at play from both parties that seeks to capitalize on stereotypes (Taylor is a lying snake, Kanye is a misogynist) and definitively label the other party as the aggressor. Does this make any sense at all? It's the OJ trial except with shitty songs

― fgti, Tuesday, August 29, 2017 5:37 PM (nine minutes ago)

ok great, we're saying what we mean now. i struggle with this sort of analysis because it's so ubiquitous among the types of intellectuals i tend to follow, but i find it to be reductive and essentialist. to me, implying that kanye and talyor are equally at fault in this "beef" -- given the ugly, inexcusable things kanye has done, like call her a "bitch" on one of his tracks and saying she "owes him sex" -- or even that it is TS who has crossed the line, is unacceptable. what drives this? because we're sensitive to the optics of criticizing the black artist and defending the white one? fuck that, imho

Let's say the song is about what y'all say it's about: revenge on Kanye. Is her insistence on exacting musical revenge as terrible as what Kanye has said about her in public and his material?

We plunge into the rabbit hole of biographical criticism.

important to note if the artists themselves didn't capitalize off this beef (however real or fake it is) then it would be monopolized by the media/industry as usual which doesn't seem a whole lot better. at least this way they have some agency in driving their careers.

honestly man this is just a meaninglessly simple lens through which to view art, imo. rich and famous people have struggles, failures, embarrassments etc too, and it can be the basis for genuine expression and art. i get the feeling this is more of a proxy fight (taylor and "her fans" vs kanye and "his fans") rather than an actual criticism of her as an artist.

Not at all even remotely in the slightest. I've seen in real time hungry musicians turn comfortable (or old!) and then struggle with a literal changed identity and how might they find a nice place in the room to build a songwriting world. More often than not there is some manner of invented hardship at play.

I'm also not trying to imply that Taylor doesn't ~deserve~ to feel victimized by "Famous"-- that song is execrable trash and everybody who heard it felt victimized and even Nina Simone came back from the dead to complain

lol

haha

Wait, when did Kanye ever say Taylor owed him sex? That's horrible!

he sent an invoice iirc

It's cos he "made that bitch famous" iirc, the solipsism of which is worthy of Trump. And there's no comparison between West's public sexual harassment of Swift and her reaction imo, "biographical criticism" doesn't enter into it.

Ok lol xp

"You Belong With Me" as a song sung from the perspective of somebody with paranoid delusions
otm

Okay so I kinda adore the video and it has made me reassess the entire meaning of the chorus.

Kanye's fame-granting assertion in "famous" isn't as much solipsistic as it is evidence of pre-platform filter bubbles emerging in late-00s pop consumption. Way before that song even came out, I read comments and tweets from Kanye fans saying that he put Taylor on the map, that "nobody" knew who she was before the 2009 VMAs. Obviously the sweeping-generalization nature of those statements was false - she was selling more than Kanye by that point! - but she wasn't on the Hot 97/Nah Right radar at all.

sad because Kanye was just trying to make Beyoncé famous

neither party would dare have such persistent or vociferous beef with a black woman or an LGBTQ entertainer

so that whole nicki minaj thing didn't exist, I guess

Funnily enough, Taylor's swift backdown from her argument with Nicki probably supports that proposition, at least on the surface. Although Occam's razor suggests the better explanation is she immediately realised she had misunderstood Nicki and was barking up the wrong tree, rather than because she considered Nicki would beat her on identity politics points.

Taylor Swift also began the LWYMMD campaign by uploading a video of a snake, which is a reference to Kim Kardashian.

Though, again, she seems to have immediately pivoted onto Kanye after that.

Or was she referencing
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a3/1c/5e/a31c5ec5588d47a82c362b56f25aec7d.jpg

The Taylor-Paula feud is ON!

Seriously though the video (esp. the ending) makes me think that the emergent consensus hot-take on this song ("Taylor tries to do execute a heel turn but fails because she can't resist playing the victim") misses the point a bit, though understandably.

The clip gives the chorus refrain a slightly different narrative thrust: almost, "thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this". At the very least it's ambivalent about causal agency: the implication is almost that the world gave Taylor no option but to do what she secretly wanted to do, which was to kill off her nice girl persona. It places the chorus in scare quotes, makes "playing the victim" the foil that no one is supposed to believe (least of all Taylor), just as "look what you made me do" as a line always lacks credibility in reality.

The ending in particular seems to hold both Taylor's critics and Taylor's past public personas in equal contempt, which gives the chorus yet another slightly different spin: "you kept pointing out how fake I was until eventually I agreed with you". It strongly resembles (an even more cutting, self-abnegating take on) Kylie Minogue's video clip for "Did It Again", which similarly came out at a time when Kylie appeared to be disdainful of aspects of her earlier public persona(s).

You might say "if it takes the video for all this to be apparent then it fails as a pop song", but given none of the hot takes appear prepared to judge Taylor without drawing on extraneous material like Kim's snapchat feed and social media Bernie vs Hillary madlibs from mid-2016, I think it's reasonable to take the video into account.

Um, I think the snake might have been a reference to how others perceive her, but I can't be sure. If only there were some clues in the video or album title. xps

I think Frederick meant that Kim/Kanye's fans flood Taylor's twitter with snake emojis after Kim posted the snapchat video.

Kim appeared to endorse that by tweeting something like "Did you know that today is National Snake Appreciation Day? They have a special day for everyone, I mean everything these days!"

agreed with tim that the video is good and like all good videos adds as much subtextual depth to a song as a good piece of criticism; as soon as the chorus was juxtaposed with taylor infinitely crashing her own car it was like a lightbulb appeared above my head

Snake is clearly a Harry Potter reference

Of course Keith already had all these realisations already:

http://www.citypages.com/music/taylor-swift-would-very-much-like-to-exclude-us-from-her-narrative/442076423

that part of the video is just a cheap shot at katy perry https://youtu.be/XjwZAa2EjKA?t=2m58s

Brad I also liked how the car crash motif is an inverted callback to "Red". Rather than being crashed by Jack Gyllenhaal she's just deliberately crashing herself. There's nobody else in the car - maybe there never was!

Xpost eh I think car crashes are too common a motif (including for taylor, per my post above) for that link to be persuasive.

yes, but the specific filming of it, plus the context of everything else about this single, makes it more likely than a ~~~super-deep~~~ callback to "Red"

(for his part, Joseph Kahn's suggested the video is a take on 2NE1's "Come Back Home")

Haha apparently we are both correct:

http://www.citypages.com/music/taylor-swift-would-very-much-like-to-exclude-us-from-her-narrative/442076423

Wait that is the Keith review (which people should read). I meant a different piece.

There we go:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/28/each-and-every-single-dig-that-taylor-swift-makes-in-the-look-what-you-made-me-do-music-video-6883910/

I think the 2NE1 thing is just a callback to being accused of ripping that video off for the "Bad Blood" video?

that part of the video is just a cheap shot at katy perry https://youtu.be/XjwZAa2EjKA?t=2m58s

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Wednesday, August 30, 2017 5:54 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ehhh ok

It strongly resembles (an even more cutting, self-abnegating take on) Kylie Minogue's video clip for "Did It Again", which similarly came out at a time when Kylie appeared to be disdainful of aspects of her earlier public persona(s).

As soon as she saw it, my girlfriend Kate made that comparison too. (She is a massive Kylie fan...and was not pleased with Taylor's attempt.)

the whole killing-off-the-old-you stuff was as far as i can recall first seen in the Freedom '90 video by George Michael, can anyone remember any earlier examples? anyway Taylor's graveyard version of same reminds me of Geri Halliwell's debut solo single Look At Me

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/31mlEEs9_Vk/hqdefault.jpg

Ziggy Stardust?

Xxpost Taylor's take is nastier (to herself) because even Kylie made sure that her caricatures of herself never seemed that reality-based. It's easy to reject a broadly drawn caricature.

Whereas the "shocked I just won an eleventh award" Taylor is so close to reality that by satirising it Taylor and/or the clip-makers can't help but make past-Taylor look ridiculous in fact.

This was one aspect (amongst several) of Keith's piece I thought was really smart: he captures how the clip is so focused on getting out in front of any possible criticism you might have of Taylor, that it creates this contradiction - on the one hand, it basically succeeds at pre-empting (lol autocorrect prefers "pre-emptying") any criticism, while on the other, investing so much energy and money into saying "you can't say anything to me that is nastier than what I have already said to myself" can't help but feel like a defensive strategem.

I would happily watch an entire video of past/present TS personas bickering with each other, love the part where Taylor Mk. 1 bursts into tears and is roundly ridiculed.

xp oh yes! hadn't thought of that.

citation needed

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:32 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://decisiondeskhq.com/data-dives/how-the-2016-vote-broke-down-by-race-gender-and-age/

(not that it's meaningful anyway because Taylor Swift's fanbase is not a 100% overlapping venn diagram with "white women 18-29," but)

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the characterization I was responding to was of Swift as "pop-star exemplar of the white female Trump supporter". so it's a characterization of her, not her fans. Taylor Swift is an 18-29 white woman. I thought I was being pretty clear there.

that comparison has to be about the fans though or else it is completely useless. the reason Kanye talking about Donald Trump is not really relevant is because -- well, because he's Kanye and this is just the kind of thing he does, but also because I would hazard not many of his fans voted for Trump

You can't use statistics on one person... Taylor Swift didn't vote 52% for Hillary.

her head voted Hillary, but her heart went Trump

why does Taylor as "pop-star exemplar of the white female Trump supporter" have to be about her fans?

i know parsing this one phrase is a waste of time but I guess it depends on how you read the statement...I read it as "Taylor Swift is a typical example of the white female Trump supporter" which is, at least demographically speaking, wrong.

Well, she's too young, but she did grow up pretty rich which would help (the avg Trump voter brings in over 70k iirc)

I think on most metrics (age bracket, locale, etc.) that would not be true.

because it's the reason why "but Kanye *actually* supported Trump!" is an argument so stupid it approaches bad faith

http://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/37187/1/nazis-love-taylor-swifts-look-what-you-made-me-do

“It is also an established fact that Taylor Swift is secretly a Nazi and is simply waiting for the time when Donald Trump makes it safe for her to come out and announce her Aryan agenda to the world. Probably, she will be betrothed to Trump’s son, and they will be crowned American royalty.”

wow, can't argue with the facts i guess

Perhaps all arguments about Taylor vs Kanye as being about Trump are bad faith.

If people want to talk about Trump, they should talk about Trump.

People who write about how Taylor should disavow Trump etc. are just compensating for not being able to write persuasively about whether single payer is a good idea or not or what the historical precedents for presidential pardons can tell us. Falling back onto pop culture as a metaphor is almost always a disservice to pop and to politics.

Sorry, I'm drunk, but I probably still mean the above.

her music video has her in a bathtub full of diamonds (which is pretty rad for hyper-capitalist iconography). pushing materialism/consumerism/self-destructive tendencies has always been a major part of pop life.

this image really struck me. you're absolutely right, but at this moment in time, the culture is not sympathetic to this sort of self-referential obnoxious flaunting of wealth, mostly because that's Trump's M.O. so along with the "media treats me unfairly" angle, Swift already has two things in common with Trump.

lol i love how when taylor approximates a Pen & Pixel CD cover from like 1998 it's interpreted as all #galaxybrain

but i admire the lengths being taken on ITT thread to avoid having to talk about this new jersey sized turd she just left in the punchbowl. also as usual fgti posts are great.

to be fair the "taylor swift is the official pop star of the alt-right" take that's been going around is also wrong and in bad faith -- they tried this exact same shit on depeche mode

She really is more comparable to Ivanka.

I'm still not understanding why Swift is responsible for the things she doesn't do but Kanye isn't even responsible for the things he does do.

Because she didn't not do enough!

Perhaps all arguments about Taylor vs Kanye as being about Trump are bad faith.

If people want to talk about Trump, they should talk about Trump.

People who write about how Taylor should disavow Trump etc. are just compensating for not being able to write persuasively about whether single payer is a good idea or not or what the historical precedents for presidential pardons can tell us. Falling back onto pop culture as a metaphor is almost always a disservice to pop and to politics.

Sorry, I'm drunk, but I probably still mean the above.

― Tim F, Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:09 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is totally fair. i honestly don't even give a shit about how Kanye feels about Trump insofar as it has anything to do with how I feel about him as an artist. I only thought it was highly disingenuous to be lassoing Swift to Trump because...???...when he has demonstrated at least some legitimate real-world approval.

there's also the factor that Swift's relationship to her fans has historically been a lot more intimate and big-sisterly than Kanye's relationship to his fans

TS came up on Country radio in the years immediately following the scrubbing from history of the Dixie Chicks. I think that may inform the calculations she makes about political statements. Weighing the number of (CD buying) original fans to be lost vs. intangible social media props to be gained by coming out against Trump, etc.

Hey, Springsteen's participation in the last presidential campaign was kinda half-assed when compared to what he did for Obama and I don't see many people pointing at him saying he should have done more.

Hey, Springsteen's participation in the last presidential campaign was kinda half-assed when compared to what he did for Obama and I don't see many people pointing at him saying he should have done more.

― cpl593H, Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:34 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

http://i.imgur.com/q3Ny1py.jpg

lord that fuckin' GIF meme ugh

it is the best

luv that meme
h8 this song

mark me down as "hate both, will be attending the album release party"

https://s26.postimg.org/kk3kbw7nt/ulysses-swift.jpg

we're through the looking glass here people

apropos of nothing but one clever thing I will concede from the video is how "Red" turns into "Rep" if you flip the last letter

to be fair the "taylor swift is the official pop star of the alt-right" take that's been going around is also wrong and in bad faith -- they tried this exact same shit on depeche mode

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:32 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, but at least Depeche Mode came right out and denounced the alt-right. Taylor will not.

depeche mode is also about 30 decades past the peak of their career

*years, god

Enjoy Proudgirl Taylor, then.

you're missing the point, which is that the "alt-right" is composed of internet trolls who attempted to astroturf a #notyourshield campaign around Depeche Mode and failed, and are now trying to do the same to Taylor Swift and evidently succeeding

got a real Peaches feeling from this single

Look What You Made Me Do (This Dildo) ^^

lmao Whiney's meme

because it's the reason why "but Kanye *actually* supported Trump!" is an argument so stupid it approaches bad faith

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:00 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw i made this argument in good faith: i'm just that stupid

https://www.theringer.com/pop-culture/2017/8/31/16234302/taylor-swift-donald-trump-problem

I don't know much (or care) about TS and all the stories, gossips and issues related (and I'm part of the people who only know "shake it off" from her previous work...) but I like the new single.
it's not great or anything but it's enjoyable as a end of summer/back to work track (except the speaking on the phone cringey part).

I just can't imagine Swift as a Trump supporter. She just took a sexual harassment case to court out of principle and to set an example, it's the exact opposite of "grab them by the pussy." Her sex-positive identity on her earlier stuff seems at odds with the antifeminist conservatism of the alt-right.

Anyway what would the actual consequence of Swift coming out to admonish Trump and his supporters? The risk of some lost sales, yes, but would it help her win new ones? Is there an audience who would say I thought I didn't like Taylor Swift but now she is a liberal I guess I will take her seriously? I think her actions say a lot about the person she is. Katy Perry is keen to tell us how "woke" she is but lets not forget that she started her career with "Ur So Gay" and "I Kissed A Girl."

That said, this ticket selling arrangmenet is horrific and this new song is dreadful in a way that goes beyond mediocrity, "losing everything about herself that was special" is OTM.

You mean sex-positive earlier stuff like "She's better known for the things that she does on the mattress"?

Is there an audience who would say I thought I didn't like Taylor Swift but now she is a liberal I guess I will take her seriously?

"Audience" as in CD/ticket buyers? Of course not? "Audience" as in mercenary hacks who will happily write 800 words on exactly that subject for Slate, Salon, The Atlantic, Jezebel, Teen Vogue, etc., etc.? ABSOLUTELY.

Yeah, I think this whole 'Trump voter' thing is kind of dumb, and I mostly agree with the Ringer piece, but it's interesting to me that at least two people have now described her earlier country work as "sex-positive". I don't even think a singer needs to be sex-positive per se but what examples of this are people thinking of? I think I'm fairly familiar with Fearless and Speak Now. xp

The one I always thought was notable was "there's a drawer of my things at your place" - the subtle inference of staying over and all that entails. Or "Wildest Dreams" which is basically about enjoying the thrill and sexuality of a moment without it having to go somewhere. But there's a definite falseness to the early media portrayal of her as this virginal chaste ingenue when actually a lot of her material is, while maybe not overtly sexual, doesn't shy away from ideas of intimacy or attraction.

(and of course that all changed because she dared to go on a few dates with a few different men and then she was a slut, because a woman can only be one of the other eh)

the Ringer piece makes the same mistake all such pieces do: assumes that fixation on celebrities and public figures in the political realm is a unique facet of 2017

...you mean history didn't start two seconds ago?

otoh Fifteen seems to be about how sex as a youth is a regrettable mistake (And Abigail gave everything she had / To a boy who changed his mind / And we both cried) which isn't necessarily conservative but doesn't entirely fit progressive sexual mores.

Shocker that adolescents continue to attach too much importance to their virginity and are a mess about love and romance.

it doesn't "seem to be," it completely is and the fact that this was ever a fact in question is mind-boggling

In the "Taylor is a liberal" evidence column you could add that many of her early songs are about getting the hell out of a small town and moving to a big city

katherine, the difference is that fan-fiction was the purview of teenagers and perverts and now it's done by pundits that make six figures a year

this entire rollout has made music writing read like fucking TV recaps, where everyone's concerns are "how does this fit into the narrative" and "is this woke enough."

And the poptimism flip-flop on Swift probably says less about her as a pop auteur and more about how desperate/scared culture writers are to appear like they fit in to the online discourse of the moment.

Twitter has made everyone lose their fucking minds. Like what type of parasitic holes has Slate wokeness burned in your brain when you hear Taylor Swift pumping herself up with hip-hop dis track bravado on a single and go "wow ... white victim narrative much" instead of "hey, a pop star made a video version of the 'control verse' ... neat"

And then D4rcie W1lder makes a disgusting, moronic tweet and then Noisey et al report on it like it's news.

howdy. im the sheriff of tone. im gon police u tone.

music used to be an autonomous art, man

TSJ weighs in

And then D4rcie W1lder makes a disgusting, moronic tweet and then Noisey et al report on it like it's news.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, September 1, 2017 10:05 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what does this mean?

the difference is that, much as last year millions of people became convinced nasty campaigns were invented in 2016, the Ringer piece claims 2017 invented "beginning to take pop stars especially seriously," with a couple lazy equivocations like "Trump is not the first famous entertainer to reach high office" and "Running and holding office has always been its own genre of theatrics" that suggest that deep down the writer knew it was bullshit. if ringer dude's sick of taylor swift politics takes he should just say that and leave it there instead of making it a symptom of our era that everyone's gonna nod along with because they, too, are sick of taylor swift takes and of our era

this also applies to music -- godwin said it was ok, so for every bit of "why isn't Taylor Swift speaking out against Neo-Nazis" discourse there's a contemporous bit, then several decades more, of, say, "why is Richard Strauss collaborating with actual Nazis." (not to #slatepitch, obviously the sole reason the VMAs opened with the one Strauss clip everyone knows was because of 2001: A Space Odyssey, but it was still pretty... "funny" isn't the right word, that the walkup music for Katy Perry's Woke Commentary was something by the head of the State Music Bureau)

(now I really want an actual historian to collate the "should this composer be opposing the Tories???" pamphlet crud from the 1770s, I know it's out there)

"Trump is not the first famous entertainer to reach high office

indeed he is not

I searched "the ringer taylor swift" and holy shit they have like 10 million Taylor Swift articles

When I heard they killed off the old Taylor Swift, I was hoping they'd take diversity into account when casting the new version

Netflix Announces Gritty Reboot of Taylor Swift

I didn't really interpret

it is troubling when we begin to take pop stars especially seriously, not because they have demonstrated knowledge or competence but simply because they command massive audiences

as meaning that no one did this before 2017. That said, the part of the Ringer piece that I mostly agreed with was "wgaf about Taylor Swift's political positions?"

TSJ weighs in

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, September 1, 2017 8:33 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

for a brief moment, I thought the Taylor Swift Journal existed

with 33 blurbs, that's basically what it is!

It's true that none of these developments are "new" but it does feel like music criticism as a series of wokeness-assessments is having a 2016-2017 moment. And I do think that this is as much or more about writers establishing their own bona fides, which is maybe kind of why it's so irresistible: if you know that whatever you write about Taylor (or whoever) is gonna be assessed on political or cultural grounds first and foremost, it's very hard to not end up predominantly speaking to that question given the reader-response judgments are gonna be much more dramatic than just "well I like that song rather more than the writer does".

I'm pretty sure Treeship said this somewhere on ILX in the last couple months: "politics is the new taste." people define themselves and judge others based on their opinions and hot takes instead of what bands they like or what patches they have on their jacket

its a natural result of the internet rendering consumable goods immaterial now what matters is not what you consume but your motivation/skill at consuming "correctly"

Yes. Partly a consequence of music-selection based tribalism falling apart in the social media age.

There are aspects of this I don't mind.

Yesterday our office got a speaker to play music on, and the immediate narrative that developed was that I would be quietly judging people for their taste. My defence was "I won't judge what you like, but I will judge your reasons for liking something." And then it occurred to me how much of a 2017 thing that was to say.

I was saying that in 1997!

James Murphy should've written a song about me.

He was there...in Florida?

Haha no I've been saying it for years - what struck me was that it now seemed like a very normal thing to say rather than expressing some distinction from the norm.

I will also judge men's hair and the intentions behind a style.

sorry, ahistoric "THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED"ness is possibly my biggest pet peeve so the past year or two of commentary has been fun

Haha

hey katherine

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2017/05/donald-glover-pop-culture-streak-is-unprecedented

Man, Atlanta was so good.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau) at 2:37 1 Sep 17

its a natural result of the internet rendering consumable goods immaterial now what matters is not what you consume but your motivation/skill at consuming "correctly"

is this a reference to your posts on the Daily Show thread?

yeah whiney otm

I had missed that was Todrick Hall in the video, and he had things to say.

https://www.yahoo.com/music/todrick-hall-speaks-taylor-swift-video-backlash-134742334.html

its easier to align oneself with a political "side" than it is to describe music in a cogent way. that said i feel like if things keep progressing the way they are here in the states you're going to see the wokeness quotient plummet at a lot of outlets that need money and don't want to offend advertisers. (the widespread "pivot to video" trend is a harbinger of this - obviously a lot of these clanging pieces are very high on
chest beating and low on facts, but turning them into videos will only make that ratio worse)

this, while not great in its conclusions (the piece doesn't quite separate itself from the Mic position that "social justice" topics are synonymous with clickbait, which... would seem to be the entire reason you'd write such a thing, besides the real reason i.e. inter-media feuds) is a pretty good case study

https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of-modern-media

I'm taking comfort in the possibility that people are going to move on from these opinions4u so hard the second she releases a googly-eyed love song

It's kinda funny I ran across my vinyl of Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain and was thinking how crazy Pitchfork, CoS, Noisey et al would have gone about Range Life considering all the digital ink spilled over this or Arcade Fire acting like ding dongs imagine the thinking pieces

"Nature Kids DO Have a Function: Pavement's Problematic Anti Ecological Politics"

CRCR debuted in the bottom half of the billboard 200 albums chart and to this date has not even gone gold

in 1994 no clickbait economy would have wasted bandwidth on a pavement headline with everything else that was going on imo

if they could spare whitespace not already devoted to coverage of social media responses to kurt cobain's suicide there might be a graf or two about whether or not beck was guilty of cultural appropriation for doing a tropicalia album or making "where it's at"

have you seen how much these outlets cover, for example, the various scandals involving Mark Kozelik's behavior, if Pitchfork existed then they would cover Pavement like crazy

plus they were dissing 2 of the biggest bands in the world, i think it's safe to say it would be covered on indie sites

kozelek went after a writer directly, different situation

Yes. Partly a consequence of music-selection based tribalism falling apart in the social media age.

There are aspects of this I don't mind.

Imagining the 2017 Jack Black High Fidelity character judging each customer on their wokeness level[/].

http://z100.iheart.com/featured/fresh-pick-mondays/content/2017-09-02-listen-to-a-clip-of-taylor-swifts-new-song-ready-for-it/

And then D4rcie W1lder makes a disgusting, moronic tweet and then Noisey et al report on it like it's news.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, September 1, 2017 10:05 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what does this mean?

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, September 1, 2017 11:42 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

speculation that TS picked her release date because it's the 10th anniversary of donda west's death

Imagining the 2017 Jack Black High Fidelity character judging each customer on their wokeness level[

lmao ok holy shit, this is an incredible image

haha ugh

"Do you even know your daughter? There's no way she likes a band of white cishet males"

looooll

It's kinda funny I ran across my vinyl of Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain and was thinking how crazy Pitchfork, CoS, Noisey et al would have gone about Range Life considering all the digital ink spilled over this or Arcade Fire acting like ding dongs imagine the thinking pieces

"Nature Kids DO Have a Function: Pavement's Problematic Anti Ecological Politics"

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, September 2, 2017 6:56 PM (four hours ago)

lol matt i love you

Song number two

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T62maKYX9tU

This new Taylor single flew from dubstep to trap to trop house in like a minute and I'm dizzy and drained.

— Craig Bro Dude (@CraigSJ) September 3, 2017

She had Max Martin and Shellback airlift this campaign out the trenches huh

— Craig Bro Dude (@CraigSJ) September 3, 2017

much, much better than single 1, but still horrible dead-eyed trash precision-engineered by committee to get the most replays, obv ;)

it's a shame the taylor who could write hooks died

During the tour for this album is she going to do the Mr. Rogers thing where she calls the audience her "friends," lies about recognizing them from Instagram, and brings celebrities onstage so the crowd can meet her other "friends"? Because this is what I witnessed when I was taken to a show on the 1989 tour and it was sort of sweet -- it was clear to me her youngest fans loved it and I was happy for them -- but also creepy. I'm sure there are people out there who have a phobia of Taylor Swift.

There were also video segments where Lena Dunham and Selena Gomez talked about baking cookies at Taylor Swift's apartment. It was like they were trying to convince me she was a normal human being, something I never would have questioned before attending the concert.

I had to explain to my kids the notion of a curated Instagram account.

I'm now under the impression this whole thing is her Chris Gaines album.

Despite it all though, the songs on 1989 are amazing. I really hope the new songs don't portend some moodier, more "2017" sound.

No joke, even my 10-year old girl has been complaining about Taylor Swift going all "dark" and "goth."

I mean, I will have to see the finished product. She might have a vision. But it seems kind of forced right now.

Taylor Swift knows what works better than I do though, obviously.

Taylor take the wheel

imago otm i think

This new song doesn't work at all but Taylor is now failing in interesting ways rather than boring ones, which is an improvement in my book.

Taylor is now failing in interesting ways rather than boring ones

ahh man if there's any justice in this world, this will be on the sticker

New song makes it seem clear the degree to which they actively sought a celebrity gossip nightmare with this album rollout bc this would've made a really good opening single, gotten the "harder-edged" message across, etc while pretty much avoiding all that pandemonium.

This person that literally broke the streaming record last week is failing in interesting ways

This thing just destroyed the internet: http://ew.com/music/2017/08/30/taylor-swift-records-look-what-you-made-me-do/

But, on the other hand, there was also a Noisey article about how she isn't woke enough so maybe she should just shelve the album

I mean who can say

Do you actually like this music or do you just hate the Internet?

board description

They're not mutually exclusive.

Didn't Drake just put out a record where he repeatedly explains why his last record-breaking record was so shitty? Thinking sales is everything is really missing the point in this age of the popstar as brand.

This person that literally broke the streaming record last week is failing in interesting ways

Man, I get it, but I hate this sort of metric. I'm not sure what breaking the streaming record even means, beyond the literal. It's just some number, like twitter followers or longest fingernails, that translates to next to nothing in the real world.

well nobody cares about longest fingernails, for one

Tell it to Guinness Book and grade school kids.

this sounds like wildest dreams

virtually every digital "record" is so gamed, both by bots and by a comparatively small number of fans refreshing/running their own bots/etc, as to be meaningless, at least outside of huge obvious differences

https://media.tenor.com/images/ca0351d04a0d4861f32d006b7449184d/tenor.gif

Bot: "I made that bitch faaaaamous"

Without these pesky bots we'd know the truth that Taylor Swift is about as popular as Dent May

Do artists and/or labels actually game their numbers with bots? Or is it just renegade fans?

probably both tbh

not saying she's not popular, just that bots and overzealous fans probably act to boost the tallies to "record-breaking" levels

right this is my point from before

not saying she's not popular, just that bots and overzealous fans probably act to boost the tallies to "record-breaking" levels

in some way this is how pop has operated for a long time what was once radio payola is now bots and streaming factories

i know

Thousands of robot doing lines of free coke off Taylor Swift 12 inch singles

lines of code conning young and impressionable youtubes into weekend "business" trips

in some way this is how pop has operated for a long time what was once radio payola is now bots and streaming factories

yes, I am aware of this as well

glad that's sorted

this would have been preferable as a lead single to the other one for sure

how do I hide all uses of "dead-eyed" on ILX?

dead your eyes

But you would risk missing the discussion of this nugget:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/New_Age_Girl_Deadeye_Dick.jpg

anyway the single is alessia cara's "stay" if produced by sleigh bells, which is more than ok