RIP Grant Hart

Just woke up to a message about this. Grant was a friend, and I know there's some discussion in a couple other threads, but he deserves his own. This blows.

RIP Grant. Heard he wasn't doing too good.

aw wtf, way too young

So sad about this, he was the fucking best. Has any sort of official statement been made about it?

woah RIP Grant

this utterly sucks

RIP Grant

http://www.thirdav.com/hd_images/20080510_mpls/489_grant_greg-1.jpg

only met him once, was back in the early 90s on his first uk solo tour. not much of a story - i was a bit freaked out and probably gabbled a lot cos this was off the back of five years of intense huskers worship, but he was very patient and kind. i think i bought him a beer and made him sign some records

So sad to hear this, over time I came to appreciate the honesty of his songwriting more and more. I will still stan for Intolerance, home keyboards and all.

This fucking sucks...I saw him four years ago and was in great form (and funny)

As a songwriter, his natural ability with a melody was incredible

kind of surprised that intolerance is on spotify but really glad that it is. even though 2541 is going to destroy me

Really really sad about this. This band have always meant a huge amount to me. First purchase was Candy Apple Grey when i was about 15. Seeing Bob do a mainly husker set at an ATP years back was really a big thing; but looking back its clear how many of their best songs (and how many of my personal faves) were Grant ones.

RIP Grant. Awful news.

:-(

When I was a melancholic teenaged drummer in love with punk rock, you can bet your ass I frequently woke up with drum patterns from Zen Arcade in my head. Kudos to Grant for not just being the pulse, but an active contributor to propelling the riffs forward and more bruising thanks to his knack for complementary fills. Made punk drums sound unhinged and just as dangerous as the guitars, but always wham bam lockstep perfect, tidy. RIP brother.

RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G71dWFXJ0FY

am i right in thinking that the one time grant and bob got back together on stage was a benefit gig for karl mueller? fucking cancer again

jesus, i haven't felt this bummed by a music death since grant mclennan

tough one

sorry, jjj.

:( RIP

Nice tribute to Grant Hart by Bob Mould. pic.twitter.com/V9mjWHmbNK

— Mark O'Gara (@markogara) September 14, 2017

Cryin atm

his music meant so much to me. this is heartbreaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZWJoNYpHI

I could just post beautiful, searing songs of his all day, but I won't/can't.

Time spaces and situations
leads to an early grave

RIP Grant. My favorite thing of his is the live solo acoustic album, "Ecce Homo". Pure songwriting and emotion, that one.

14 years old with my St Paul Pioneer Press paper route in como park, walking up to the corner of Victoria at 5:30 every morning to where everyone's bundles got dropped, white plastic SST cassette of New Day Rising the newest and most exciting thing in my life, the first thing I loved that wasn't beatles, jethro tull or synth pop, playing it during my route every morning, always excited to hear "Terms of Psychic Warfare" again, until by the time I quit my route that fall the white plastic was covered in black fingerprints from newspaper ink.

New Day Rising was my entry into their world as well, albeit long after they had split. RIP.

I talked to Grant Hart once after a sparsely attended gig at Bourke's in Limerick in 2010 (thereabouts). We talked about John Milton's "Paradise Lost" as his latest album was an interpretation of it and I was reading it in college at the time. I think he was relieved to talk about something like that rather than his relationship with Bob Mould or if Husker Du were ever going to reform. He was unrecognizable from his 80s photos. He must have been 50 at the time but looked about 60 or older. "Flexible Flyer" is prob my fave Du tune. RIP

I made this way too fast. Don't have much else to say right now.

Hartbroken https://open.spotify.com/user/pplains/playlist/0mlmi7AFYRVEoUyHVv5nQK

Xpost was just listening to FYW on the train and thinking during flexible flyer that it really is a total fucking diamond

Gutted. I only ("only") saw HD once, in early 1987. One of the two deviations (the other was Norton's "Everytime") from the Warehouse setlist was a slow, quiet, contemplative "Flexible Flyer." I don't remember where I put my keys, but I remember that show like it was last night.

I am really sad about this although I concede that my sadness for his family, friends and others who valued his art as a big part of their lives even without knowing the guy is compounded by the selfish realization that I will never see Husker Du perform live in my life. I know it wasn't very likely but whatever chance there was is gone forever now.

No dis to Bob, who wrote a gazillion good songs, but Grant was/is the heart of HD for me. His songs, his voice and his drumming. Saw him do a solo show in the early '00s. And by solo I mean solo. He pulled up in a beat-up white van and humped his guitar and amp in from the curb himself. Then he hung out and chatted with the small crowd on the sidewalk smoking cigarettes outside the club. Most of the show was just him and his guitar, and he did a bunch of my Du faves plus solo stuff. For the encore, the guys from the local opening band came out to back him on "Diane." It was great. I also like The Argument, which is way better than a double-album adaptation of Burroughs/Milton should be.

This morning driving my kids to school I made them listen to "Green Eyes," "She's a Woman" and this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVN2rU59AHM

The Argument was really great, and ambitious. I am so sad about this I don't know how to express it. He was one of those songwriters who could make me feel the full range of feelings, and my favorite singing drummer. Really sad that there aren't going to be any more excellent Grant Hart songs.

Also, (at the beginning) his friendship with Bob was my platonic ideal of friendship. You meet someone who likes the same stuff, you hang out ALL THE TIME and build your own world around your friendship.
Man i am so sad!

Aww man, cancer. Saw Husker Du in the early 80s and played those records loud then. Return to them periodically. RIP

https://youtu.be/hMmksjQwE88

Hart liked to say he was a "drumming singer."

ugh can we just stop this endless train of death already?

books about ufos, heaven hill, sorry somehow, green eyes...

what an absurdly talented songwriter

Also, (at the beginning) his friendship with Bob was my platonic ideal of friendship. You meet someone who likes the same stuff, you hang out ALL THE TIME and build your own world around your friendship.

gosh darn it you just started me tearing again

The Main is what got my eyes leaking bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-6JP2-DSM

I had a vision of Grant Hart covering Don Henley's "The Last Worthless Evening" and a horrible vision of Don covering "Diane."

Listening to FYW walking to the corner store this morning and was on the edge of tears the whole time esp. on Green Eyes. That sort of melancholic beauty is a great gift in art and he definitely had it in spades. And,of course, one hell of a powerhouse drummer. Goodbye, Grant.

Amazon Prime has the documentary where he gives a deadpan tour of his nonexistent house. Worth seeing if you haven't seen it yet.

I love 100% of "Intolerance."

A band I was in once recorded a bonus cover of "Green Eyes." I know some territories got a cover of Dire Straits "Tunnel of Love" instead, and we got some pushback on that, balanced by the handful of heartfelt thanks for being exposed to the Hart song.

iirc way back when, Black Francis used to say he only owned five records when the Pixies began, and three of them were by Husker Du. I think he used to cite "Green Eyes" as his favorite song, but I could be wrong.

Hart's songs, his drumming, his screaming/singing. For a long time it meant everything to me. Still does. Only talked to him once or twice but feels like I lost a friend.

RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wb0hhsxdfA

^^^ the ne plus ultra of screaming grant

Intolerance is such a great album
the total exuberance of Now That You Know Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgwDKj5vf9o

he knew how to write all the feelings

and historical events!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EtAFf2iql0

the second time i've had to deal with the Grant from one of my favorite '80s bands dying (both times leaving behind a Robert, now that i think about it.)

i was a little too young to get into Husker Du when they were around, I came into them via Sugar. i was happy to discover that it wasn't just a Bob Mould band, but that Grant Hart was his equal.

one thing I'm not seeing mentioned in writeups about grant's passing... didn't he have at least one record under the name The Yanomamo? Did I dream that?

this i guess?

https://www.discogs.com/Yanomamos-Quizas/master/640902

I guess the best way I could express about Grant already wrote on Twitter. I know (rightly so) that for many of you Grant is tied to Husker Du and maybe Intolerance and Nova Mob but in Minneapolis he was just a part of our scene. Despite his low profile (and frankly often self sabotaging tendencies) he never stopped playing shows -- amazing, inscrutable, beautiful, terrible, awkward, antagonistic, generous shows. Despite all his issues, his voice and God-given gift for songwriting never left him. anyway, these tweets i tried to talk about Grant since the 90s, who was always among us.

1) the thing about Grant Hart people who have not been involved in Minneapolis punk or underground music won't understand is that (cont)

2) he meant so much more to us than Westerberg or Mould or Pirner or whoever because Grant was AROUND. He was at the Turf, he was (cont)

3) at Grumpys, Eagles Club, wherever. You could walk up and talk to Grant even if he didn't know you, even if no one liked your band.(cont)

4) when I first joined a band w xxxxx we were doing this "Love Stinks" show where like 40 bands each played anti-love songs(cont)

5) Grant was on the bill & we were gonna do "Don't Wanna Know if You Are Lonely" & I screwed up my courage to go ask him if he'd (cont)

6) sing it with us. He said "sure, no problem" & hopped up, barefoot, and I was playing with the guy from HUSKER DU. just like that (cont)

7) Grant was there at your weird benefit show at a VFW, or noise improv thing at an art space. He was a genius and he was right there (cont)

8) & yeah Grant was a piece of work, but he was always right here doing shows & being part of the community for real and no one cared (cont)

9) Grant was as great as anyone who ever wrote a pop song & he was right here the whole damn time

This picture below is how I'll remember Grant, one man and his guitar, playing outside a record store at 2 in the afternoon just because a friend asked him to do it

https://s26.postimg.org/dsel0ka4p/grant-hart.jpg

wow -- I love that organ/harmonica combo in "Now That You Know Me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xKJm292DQ

I just wanna leave work, get drunk, and play that new set super loud

thanks ums

"It is to the sky that I shall return"

ums i liked grant a whole extra bit more after reading yr tweets, thank you

UMS that was very touching and I'm almost welling up here at work. Cancer has been a fucking scourge on my life lately which probably makes this hit harder?

I never really post here but this is just a tremendous loss

growing up in St. Paul it was/has always has been surreal to know that one of our greatest bands came from this city and not our cooler sister from across the river

Bob and Grant met at the record store I frequent almost every other week

Mould went to the university nearby

Hart's songs meant so much to me as an angry teen discovering punk rock

RIP

ums otm. Grant was always there, with the intelligence behind those eyes, whether he was sardonic, cantankerous or a sweetheart.

My thoughts (posted from our FB store page, because my Dad also loved Grant and would have wanted us to pay tribute).

"Sad to discover that we lost a long time customer and amazing friend last night. Grant Hart was one of the most fascinating, complicated, and brilliant people I've had the chance to meet. We talk about renaissance men in the abstract, but Grant actually fit the bill - My father and I had endless conversations with him about vintage Studebaker repair, architectural restoration, art, the garbage pile that the music industry often is, and so much more. I've never known a musician so emotionally and personally attached to his gear, to the point where we would work together on his mercilessly worn and battered favorite guitar long past the point where it was logical or prudent to do so, but to Grant, that didn't matter. It was simply his guitar, in a connected at the soul way that went far beyond the feelings I've ever had for my favorite instruments.

I can guarantee that there was some subject in this world that Grant knew vastly more about than you did, no matter who you were. And if he trusted you, he would spend hours sharing that with you, because in so many ways, that sharing was the most important thing to him. I'll miss you terribly, Grant. There truly was no one like you.

In the spirit of celebration, and because Grant would want it, here is my favorite of his songs. I think it captures some of the joyful drinking in of the world that Grant did, probably better than anyone. Cheers man.

https://youtu.be/BJXEfcrYpII";

Quote screwed up the video link.

https://youtu.be/BJXEfcrYpII

thanks, man

Press release from The Numero Group who are doing Savage Young Dü...

For Immediate Release
Grantzberg Vernon Hart, March 18, 1961-September 14, 2017

Grant Hart would have loved his own death. Furious text messaging in the middle of the night seeking confirmation and commiseration. Condolences from acquaintances and media outlets who haven't come out of the woodwork in years. Emails from the Associated Press at 4:45am. The clamoring for details. When and where? What kind of cancer? He loved to stir the peanut butter. Actively sought the circus, metal or otherwise.

To know him was to...I'm not sure "love him" is the right choice of words. I had a ton of respect for the guy. I enjoyed his company. I certainly liked him. Is there a word to describe that region between love and like? It's impossible not to love/like a guy who sends you a Bob Mould diss Some ecard at 2:47am. How can you not love/like someone who insists on a high end sushi restaurant for your first meal together and then promptly orders enough food to cover his next two meals. Grant was tortured for sure, but he had a hell of a lot of fun bringing you in on the joke, even if you were part of the punchline.

I began chasing him in the summer of 2010. Getting him on the phone was impossible: Call once, hang up, call again hang up. If he wanted to talk, he'd pick up on the third ring. Email was the best way to reach him, his replies speedy and thoughtful. I'd never even been to Minneapolis the first time we met in a dark, closed downtown hotel bar that he'd somehow finagled away for us to meet in. It was August-which in Minnesota means hot and muggy. He suggested a trip to the lake to cool off, and guided my rented P.T. Cruiser through residential twists and turns to a place I would later find out was called Hidden Beach by locals. We stripped down to our underwear and began wading out and were soon neck deep. He turned to me and asked, "Do you know where we are?" And I had no idea. "This is where I shot the cover for New Day Rising."

It was one of those moments where you know you're not the first to experience it, that he'd taken several people out swimming on Cedar Lake while the sun was setting and then used their connection to his past to cement a relationship. But it sure felt special in that moment. That was the real Grant Hart, disarming and masterminding all at once. He green-lit the project shortly after.

Things began arriving in the mail shortly after, with no rhyme or reason. An original print of the earliest Hüskers promo photo. The slides for Metal Circus. A CD-R of his long-gestating double album The Argument. A gigantic Land Speed Record poster. He was nothing if not generous. Grant came to town to play an under-attended gig at Martyr's in the dead of winter, his alligator skin boots held together with duct tape barely keeping his feet from frostbite. On our break room table he sketched out what would become the first official Hüsker Dü project in more than 25 years and then asked to be dropped at the train station. A few days later, an email arrived:

"Great to see you this weekend. It could have been longer, the meal better, etc. But it was good. After recovering from the shock of the news I started to picture how I think the demos record should look. I see a very colorful, optimistic, almost new wave look. I think this will fit well with the material. As a nod to [Terry] Katzman I think calling it Savage Young Dü is good."

The next five years moved at a snail's pace. We somehow managed to get an expanded 2x7" version of their debut single out, but with the band embroiled in a lawsuit the breaks were pumped on anything considered non-essential business. And yet, my relationship with Grant continued in the background. We traded messages every few months, almost always prompted by him. He always asked about my kids and somehow remembered my daughter's name. "How's Clementine?" he'd ask. He always called when he came to town, as if I was the only person he knew in Chicago. "I'm down at the train station, come pick me up," he'd say. When asked why he didn't give me a little notice on his arrival, he'd reply: "If you don't know when my next gig is, you're not paying close enough attention."

We didn't pick the project back up until late 2015. The emails were no longer in ALL CAPS. He was less erratic, more thoughtful. Something was different. I went up to Minneapolis in the spring of 2016 to pick up all the master tapes and files that he'd been threatening to let me take for half a decade, and while sharing a moment in the sun, he turned into me and said, "I've got cancer." But he didn't dwell. Instead he told me about the two wonderful developments in his life. He'd finally met someone worth staying with and he wanted to marry her. Her name was Brigid. And after many years estranged from his son, the two had reconciled and were speaking regularly. We hugged at parting, his stubbly face scratching my neck. When I got home, this was waiting in my inbox:

"By the way, I feel very positive about beating this thing in my guts. Your meditations undoubtably help. I have a whole monastery full of Carmelites praying thanks to Brigid's mother, and yes...even doctors."

As the box went into development his correspondence increased. "New old material is being discovered every week," he wrote. "This will continue for the rest of MY life, at least. I insist that we proceed with what we have according to plan and not delay the November release while waiting for any Holy Grails to materialize."

The last time I saw Grant was in March of this year. I was in Minneapolis to gather a few more bits and bobs and scheduled time to go to dinner. He wanted pizza and suggested Red's Savoy in downtown St. Paul. He ordered enough to have leftovers the next day. He was a bit gaunt, but wisecracking and flirting with the waitress all the while. This time we shook hands at the end. He was too weak for a hug. When plans were made to fly out to the Museum of Pop Culture in Seattle to pour through his archives, he wanted to join. But when it came time to go, he suddenly cooled to the idea and withdrew from the project entirely. "Can you get it out before I go?" he asked.

I'm sorry we failed, Grant. We pushed as hard as we could to get this beast into the wild, but it wasn't hard enough. You told me several times that you thought the material was subpar, that there were too many photos of Greg Norton, and insisted we change the title at the last moment just to see everyone scramble. And now it's two months to the release date and everyone is sad and asking a million questions. It's chaos down here and you're probably looking down with your arms crossed, a gigantic, mischievous grin running ear to ear. Just a boy living on Heaven Hill.

--Ken Shipley, September, 14, 2017

xpost -- jj - last time i spoke with him, he was talking about restoring a hot rod, he was really into the project at that time

that was beautiful jjj

I bet UMS & I could post about two dozen crazy/funny Grant stories and neither of us even knew him all that well! I never even though of him as "Grant Hart" cuz he was just always around, at shows, at bars, playing these fucking amazing songs...he was a real true one off.

I don't even know what to say...we are all richer for having him in our orbit

also, i don't want to distort his legacy, he could be incredibly affecting live, but 1 million edgy noise artists on this Earth combined could not make a room feel more tense and uncomfortable than Grant's stage banter when he was in a mood.

"Can you get it out before I go?" he asked.

oh no

i should just leave work early shouldn't I

hahaha

beautiful post, UMS

xp yeah right there with you

thanks alfred

I saw Grant so many times, but I think this KEXP in studio performance is about as close to a good example of a "good Grant" gig as I think you could find, when he's feeling relaxed and happy and in good shape, loquacious....

"Being a popsmith, I write things that rhyme. It's how people remember songs. It's what I do."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl7mtCQbVf4

aw jj that's so sweet

as much as i love HD i did come into them backwards, after the fact. i've had "you're a soldier" on rpt all day.

so many beautiful posts on this page thank you everybody thank you grant one of my favorite songwriters ever ever ever

Not a Grantcentric song, I know, but I found myself cranking up "These Important Years" this morning.

haha 19mins is classic snotty Grant "I think a local band recorded there (Pachyderm)...Dave Ghoul...I call him Dave Ghoul because he lives off the dead."

My fave Grant banter would be playing the first measure of a song, say "2541" and then stop and play something else, then play another different song and then you yell out "2541!" and he'd say "I already played that, oh did you want to hear the whole thing?" and then not play it.

I remember once at the Turf he played "Barbara" and at the end he did that little flourish "Bar-ba-raaaaaaa" with a guitar chord and let it hang, like a little way to end the song. Then he did it again "Bar-ba-raaaaaaa".....then again....and again....and again....for like 2 minutes

I saw a sparsely attended 2541-era solo show (7pm early set, i think), wish I had talked to him.

I love "Barbara"!!!

Let us all hope with the deepest of hopes that we hear nothing about Grant Hart today from Greg Ginn.

I love "Barbara"!!!

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:49 AM (thirty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he did that in most sets in recent years, seemed like it was one of his favs

Thanks UMS. That's all great to know and not surprising just from the openness of his writing. Mould was very much a clenched fist emotionally in his HD tunes, where Grant was expansive and vulnerable. A guy I know posted this on FB with more details from the show I saw in 2001:

After he finished, people were clamoring to talk to him, of course. He said "Ok, I'll sign whatever you've got if you carry a piece of gear" – so a bunch of us grabbed what we could of his stuff and carried out to his car. I carried his guitar.

I was fresh out of UT and all over the place that year with my 60s Bell & Howell FD35, and took some photos at the show (still trying to find those…I remember only one or two turned out decently). When Grant saw my camera he lit up and said he loved their stuff, and had a B&H camera and enlarger at home. Asked what I did — when I said I was a designer, he lit up again and said he’d been reading a lot about nazi-era propaganda posters lately. Said something like “those people did some terrible things, but their branding was amazing!” He'd been buying old books on tour and dug through the trunk of his car for one on Goebbels. We sat on the trunk and talked about design and photography (he was an underrated and sometimes anonymous graphic artist, and created or directed all of Hüsker Dü's album art), songwriting and meeting William Burroughs. He had a lot to say about a lot of things and I wanted to hear it all.

He had a big box of fresh oranges in the car and shared them with me and the handful of fans who were hanging out, as well as stumbling club-goers and homeless people.

I was playing records between bands at a show he was played one night and I had just started playing Richard Hell's "Time" when I looked up and saw Grant onstage with guitar on standing in front of the mike. I figure he's about to start so I start fading the volume and not looking at me, does that little under hand "give me more gesture", so I bring the volume back up and he stands there onstage under the lights, wearing that red guitar, arms at his sides, eyes closed, face turned up...like he was listening to the national anthem.

Song ends, I fade down the volume, Grant starts playing.

ums otm. Grant was always there

^^^ this. I saw Husker Du many, many times early on, not because they were my favorite local band, because they honestly weren't, but the scene was small then, and they were part of the community. As their popularity grew and they signed to a major label, toured Europe, appeared on Joan Rivers' show, broke up, Bob formed Sugar, etc. etc., it always amazed me that these three guys from St. Paul had such a huge hand in creating alternative rock as we know it.

And yeah, in later years Grant was the one who was always here, at First Avenue, at the Turf Club, at a record store. I only knew him well enough to nod and say "how's it goin'." Last I saw him was last summer at the Turf, he was playing late on some bill I can't even remember, and I think I left early because I was tired, and I figured there would always be a next time. I'm really sad I missed his surprise party at the Hook and Ladder in July.

RIP Grant, and thank you for all you did.

Let us all hope with the deepest of hopes that we hear nothing about Grant Hart today from Greg Ginn.

I was wondering why grant went back to sst at the start of his solo career. Did people not know what a prick ginn was even at that late stage?

Mould was very much a clenched fist emotionally in his HD tunes, where Grant was expansive and vulnerable.
totally!!
bob always seemed so frustrated and uptight whereas grant's songs had more of a generous emotional warmth

freaking LOVED the story from numero group guy about going to the lake -- he knew that this was not the first time grant had taken someone to the lake, but it still felt so special because it meant grant hart liked him enough to show him a special place. he was a special person who liked to make other people feel special (if he felt like it) <3 <3 <3

The full documentary is out there on Dailymotion IIRC, but here's the second half of The Minneapolis Sound documentary from PBS, 1988 -- Husker Du are featured in the opening few minutes of this half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o61cjCyd418

bob always seemed so frustrated and uptight whereas grant's songs had more of a generous emotional warmth

so otm. probably why bob's stuff resonated more with me age 15-25...

ha, goole hits the whole bed of nails on the head there

freaking LOVED the story from numero group guy about going to the lake -- he knew that this was not the first time grant had taken someone to the lake, but it still felt so special because it meant grant hart liked him enough to show him a special place. he was a special person who liked to make other people feel special (if he felt like it) <3 <3 <3

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:00 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there a special localism to this story too -- it's kind of a rite of passage if you're new to the twin cities to have someone bring you to hidden beach the first time! (or was, the place has been officialized now)

I grew up in St. Paul and no one ever took me to hidden beach :(

probably why bob's stuff resonated more with me age 15-25...
lol, same!

Wonderful post, UMS.

I can easily believe that he was the most approachable member of Hüsker Dü, but somehow, he was the only member I never got to meet. And of the three of them, he's the one that I felt the closest to, if that makes sense.

Lovely piece by Annie Zaleski just now

http://www.citypages.com/music/the-haunting-resonance-of-grant-harts-2541/444464253

He always used to pull up a chair behind the counter at Northern Lights and just shoot the shit with people. Teenage me loved him for always being around, and adult me is sad and corrects the way Britishes pronounce Hüsker Dü through the tears.

Josh Kantor is the Fenway Park organist:

Fenway organ, 1st inning: Grant Hart-penned "Books About UFOs" by Hüsker Dü.

— Josh Kantor (@jtkantor) September 14, 2017

Lenny Kaye cameo in that PBS doc!

UMS what's your twitter handle?

listening today, Good News for Modern Man still feels like a classic, his best attempt at being Brian Wilson

but Hot Wax really stuck out today, what a great record, feels the most "Grant" to me

Hot Wax and Argument never really did it for me, I have to admit, perhaps because Intolerance and Good News are near and dear to my heart.

Speaking of KEXP, Kevin Cole's show about half an hour from now is likely to be very worth tuning into.

Kevin will do Grant proud.

Haven't kept up with this thread today, so I don't know what's been linked. I think this gets it exactly right: best Grant song with Husker Du = "Books About UFOs" (my favourite, period), best Grant solo song = "2541."

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/rob-sheffield-how-husker-dus-grant-hart-changed-punk-rock-w503063

I interviewed him in late 1986. I wasn't even sure if I had--had to find the issue downstairs and check. It was just before Warehouse, which "sounds, after a dozen listens, like it may be Husker Du's best"...rock critics. Anyway, it's weird: the piece is an album-by-album rundown, with a really pretentious introduction, and quotes from Mould and Hart mixed in. I used eight Mould quotes and finished with one from Hart. I don't know if it was that he didn't talk much ("the conversation was brief") or if Mould just said more interesting stuff.

Gotta echo the "Grant was always there" sentiment. Last time I saw him was in the crowd at a Meat Puppets show a few months ago. I'll always wonder if he was in the room a little earlier when Greg Norton's new band played.

Remembering now that Grant was briefly attached to play Asa Hawks in a local production of "Wise Blood," a few years ago. That would have been something.

Wow yeah it would

Funny, the one time one of the bands I was in played Minneapolis, Grant Hart was indeed there (incidentally).

My modest little obit.

The remembrances itt have been so moving to read. Just beautiful. I have only had a glancing knowledge of HD - but now in a lame/bittersweet way I think Grant's passing might be what inspires me to finally dig in, thanks to all yall <3

My modest little obit.

nicely done. as for I assume he plays the boogie piano on “Books About UFO”:

an amazing/sad story from this 2000 interview:

GRANT: I recorded a piano part for "Books," and on "Heaven Hill" there was a slide-guitar part. And maybe it was because I had picked up the wrong instrument, touching on the guitar territory, but the next time all three of us are in the studio, Bob is telling me, "You have to choose between the piano on 'Books About UFOs' or the guitar on 'Heaven Hill.'" Well, what's the basis of this selection? "The album's not going to have both of those." Well, okay, I understand.

ONION: He wouldn't let you do it on your own song?

GRANT: Right. It's totally ridiculous.

It's driven me crazy trying to figure out during what part of Heaven Hill he had a slide-guitar in mind for.

xpost ^That's my interview, from another life.

Back in my early days (which are still recent) of taking guitar lessons I brought a couple of Grant songs to my teacher. No surprise, they were pretty simple to play, but it became immediately apparent to me that no matter how well I could play them, or how easy they were to play, there would always be something missing. Grant just put so much of himself into his songs. I've played drums for much longer, but even when I was active and at my best and most capable I could never pull off the intensity of his drumming. I could only imagine someone trying to match the intensity of the vocals on "Heaven Hill."

I can see a slide going on the chorus of Heaven Hill

also fuck Bob

That's my interview, from another life.

that's the best grant interview i read today. by far.

Thanks. I think there was more in there that was maybe cut out? It's been a while.

i was just cutting-and-pasting a piece that seemed immediately relevant; there's lots more.

(or, wait, do you mean there's more that didn't make it into the story in the first place?)

Yeah, that. More mean Bob stuff, iirc.

Given what I posted upthread this should shock no one, but I am firmly team Grant. No details I'm willing to share but, yeah.

Warehouse Songs and Stories and Zen Arcade were a big part of my last two years of high school. Those years were so amazing for how many records and bands, it was like someone new and amazing every week. Grant Harts death is just a bummer in a similar way to Chris Cornell's was a few months back, as they were people that made music that was part of the soundtrack of my life.

It is really sad that the Husker guys went to the end in this spiraling anger never to be resolved, but the music is still out there and for the people that heard it when it mattered and the people who will find it now at some point in happenstance - they are going to find some honest music.

this is a sick find - soundboard of a 1983 show, vocals panned hard left... they sound INCREDIBLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnc_k8dLO44

New piece from Stephen Thomas Erlewine

http://www.citypages.com/music/grant-hart-never-left-the-underground-or-minnesota/444557673

Well shit.

Just read the Voice interview linked in there, and found this:

"I read you lost a guitar in the fire that was pretty important to you.

Oh, man. The guitar I thought I was going to play for the rest of my life. I came home from tour and it was the first tour I left this guitar home. I’d gone out with a different guitar. It was really prophetic; it’s almost like I betrayed the guitar by disappearing and leaving home with a different guitar. It was a single-pickup ES-25 by Gibson."

That's the guitar I was talking about. He never told me it got lost in the fire, and the different guitar is the one I sold him when we couldn't make the ES-125 (errata) work anymore. This makes me so goddamn sad. Fuck. Just breaks my heart.

Ah man, so sorry to hear that. You did your damnedest, though.

And I'm certain the reason he never told me is that he knew how sad it would make me, given how much I knew he loved it and how much time we spent with it. Feel free to throw that story in the face of the next person that tells you how Grant was an asshole or a con man or a narcissist, but lovable despite that because blah blah blah. He was above all else a really sweet man who never aimed for injury. Fuck heroin and hep c and cancer, and fuck the husker du narrative in general.

I feel like a heel just posting my own shit on here but whatever, more thoughts, more repetitive crossposted Facebook. Fuck it.

"As I read interviews and remembrances today, I stumbled across this, from the village voice:

"I read you lost a guitar in the fire that was pretty important to you.

Oh, man. The guitar I thought I was going to play for the rest of my life. I came home from tour and it was the first tour I left this guitar home. I’d gone out with a different guitar. It was really prophetic; it’s almost like I betrayed the guitar by disappearing and leaving home with a different guitar. It was a single-pickup ES-25 by Gibson."

That's the guitar I was talking about, and the "different guitar" was the guitar I sold him when we couldn't make it work. After the fire, I asked him about the ES-125, and he changed the subject. I'm sure he did that because he didn't want me to feel bad. The next time someone tries to sell you on crazy/insensitive/wild man/out of control Grant, feel free to throw that story back in their face. As the eventual and unavoidable media elegies that focus on what a troubled/tortured artist/tragic figure he was, and the (accurate) stories of drug abuse appear, remember that Grant honestly owned his addictions. He never considered himself tragic, and he never was. And in a moment of crisis that few of us will ever understand, after the death of his mother and the loss of his home, he chose to spare me from the sadness of knowing he lost that guitar, and that in some very honest metaphysical Grant way, the new guitar I sold him was to blame.

That, to me, is the other Grant that I was lucky enough to know. Kindness that balanced justified bitterness, exuberance that many confused with mania, lies told to shape the world into a better place than it was, but closer to where he knew it should be."

I interviewed Grant by email about five years ago, before The Argument came out, and it was mostly about what that entailed. He gave me some amazing answers; you can almost see the twinkle in his eye as he typed them out.

I mean, this on his negotiations with Domino: "As an artist I am constantly erecting dolmens and obelisks and hot-dog stands to ensure my immortality and thus my godliness."

Josh, I noticed the byline for the first time. You're responsible for the most comprehensive recent interview.

I've been wracking my brain about this but found it finally....was an amazing moment (also seemed to indicate that Greg and Grant's relationship wasn't as bad as sometimes portrayed)...but yeah Grant opened for Mike Watt and at the end, Grant got behind the drum kit in the first (at least that I'd seen) in YEARS and Greg Norton got up there on bass and they did a 15 minute version of "Little Johnny Jewel" by Television....

Setlist: Grant Hart — 7th Street Entry, Minneapolis MN, 15 May 2009

Remains To Be Seen
2541
[new song] ("I don't say sorry")
Come, Come
Books About UFOs
It's Not Funny Any More
Admiral Of The Sea
Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely (w/fake "Never Talking To You Again" intro)
Barbara
St. James Infirmary (w/fake "Never Talking to You Again" intro)
[new song] ("I knew since then")
Back From Somewhere
Evergreen Memorial Drive
Never Talking To You Again
* You're The Reflection Of The Moon On The Water

** Little Johnny Jewel

Grant solo show opening for Mike Watt. For the last song (*) of Grant's set, he was joined onstage by Watt
and his band. For Watt's final encore (**), Grant returned to play drums, and Greg Norton came up to play
bass. Thanks to James Lindbloom for the information and to John Mulhouse for filling in the front end of
Grant's setlist (which he cautions my be slightly out of order).

btw this is very Grant and hilarious I think chris mentioned it upthread but if someone was being annoying and yelling for a particular song, he would start to play it, then stop and do another song to troll them, then eventually give them what they wanted (which was inevitably probably something he was gonna play all along)

Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely (w/fake "Never Talking To You Again" intro)
Barbara
St. James Infirmary (w/fake "Never Talking to You Again" intro)
[new song] ("I knew since then")
Back From Somewhere
Evergreen Memorial Drive
Never Talking To You Again

Was that a saxophone solo during "What's Going On?" in flappy's video?

WGO indeed!

ok... this was posted by a friend of a friend on Facebook...he's from Serbia and said Grant played Serbia in 1994 when no Western artists would come there due to international sanctions

given what I heard was his fairly haphazard to say the least approach to management, booking, etc. my mind is boggling how that happened

I remember that Watt opening set very, didn't he call out some woman aggressively and caustically at that one or maybe that was the "Hot Wax" release show?...He could freeze out a room like no one's business.

His vers of "St James Infirmary" was so good.

have any of your interviews been excerpted in NYT obits before, Josh?

bad editing in said obit… "Mr Hart's contributions as drummer were not as visible as those of Mr Mould, the more obvious bandleader."

I remember that Watt opening set very, didn't he call out some woman aggressively and caustically at that one or maybe that was the "Hot Wax" release show?...He could freeze out a room like no one's business.

His vers of "St James Infirmary" was so good.

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, September 15, 2017 9:15 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha yeah i don't know, i get the shows all mixed up but yeah when the banter turned cold it was really something

Amazing story, UMS! Great interview, Josh!

Wonderful piece, Al. And this is otm: Call “2541” the “Maybe I’m Amazed” of genteel poverty

Would totally buy Having Fun with Grant Hart Onstage

btw - Josh that's the best interview I've read w/Grant

yeah, thanks for the link

Thanks. For obvious reasons I wish there were a lot more of them out there.

do you have an archive transcripts?

I've been bitching about this forever but can we briefly discuss how fucking insane "New Day Rising" would have been if you swapped out "How to Skin a Cat" & "Whatcha Drinkin" for "2541"?

Was 2541 written at that point? That's nuts!

I like Robert Forster's version too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_uiLSk6lLE

yeah josh that interview is great

Was 2541 written at that point? That's nuts!

― Cyndi Larper (stevie), Friday, 15 September 2017 15:28 (one minute ago) Permalink

It was written for the record, they practiced it, Bob didn't like it.

stevie, read the bit at the bottom of this page:

http://www.thirdav.com/hd_images/msp_sites/2541_house.html

Grant always kind of down played it but I think there is a reason that it was his first solo single

Really gutted about this. RIP Grant

do you have an archive transcripts?

I must - and the cassette, too - but tbh my editor at the time (who is now at NPR) was so cool I'm sure it was published more or less verbatim, even if I half remember a couple of other stories that may or may not have been from this interview.

About to drive from NYC to Bethesda with friends
There are things it will be obligatory to play on this drive, idgaf

Also - things I didn't know about grant until yesterday:

He has a kid?
Fake Name Graphics was grant?

Also - is there audio of that show w the little johnny jewel encore? Or even just the encore?

I've read that he has two kids, both adults now I think.

xpost OK, found the original transcript, and I was totally right, there is a big hunk where he goes off the record. Talks a bit about Bob, the immediate aftermath of the band's breakup, and, tangentially, the Replacements. Angry and interesting and maybe not totally surprising, yet ... off the record, so don't know what to do with it.

Let's all grab a beer and discuss it.

Post it on 77

Eh forget I said that

I've been struggling with how to write about Hart's queerness, of which I've seen little but passing mentions.

I honestly didn't even know he had kids or a family.

Alfred, this guy tried awhile ago, re Grant and Bob

http://dentalhospital.tumblr.com/post/123117605615/bob-and-grant

I've been bitching about this forever but can we briefly discuss how fucking insane "New Day Rising" would have been if you swapped out "How to Skin a Cat" & "Whatcha Drinkin" for "2541"?

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, September 15, 2017 10:23 AM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark

totally completely fucking insane!!!
omg

yeah it's kind of infuriating in retrospect, it's one thing if it were left off this perfect record but to leave it off in favor of two obvious throwaways is pretty shitty

Now That You Know Me, is this the only Grant solo track that was (if I'm remembering right, I think I have a copy of it somewhere) demoed or played with Husker Du?

xpost
I mean I don't know if it was those two songs specifically but if I wrote "2541" and was told it wasn't good enough and those two songs stayed...I don't know if I would have been in the band for two more yrs.

I read that Bob's (stated) reason was it sounded like a contemporary Dream Syndicate song? (mighta been from his book)

I honestly didn't even know he had kids or a family.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, September 15, 2017 12:06 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wasn't this a partial catalyst in the breakup of the band? his kid was conceived around this time, right?

or at least, it happened close to when they broke up

xp yes, Bob claims in his book he said to Grant "hey uhhh.... eh it kinda sounds like the Dream Syndicate single now, maybe we shouldn't." and then suggests that was "the beginning of the end." obviously take a salt shaker w that

Is he thinking about "Tell Me When It's Over?" Because I hear that, if only very loosely.

well sounds like he meant it planted a seed of discontent xp

xp I doubt it, that's from '82

There's a version of Now That You Know Me played here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJr6GIyUi80

I read that Bob's (stated) reason was it sounded like a contemporary Dream Syndicate song? (mighta been from his book)

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, September 15, 2017 11:40 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i love this reason of Bob's, don't want to sound like this iconic song no one can seem to remember the name of by global mega stars Dream Syndicate that dominated the airwaves and MTV in the fall of 84!!

well, he wasn't a soothsayer :)

at some point yesterday after the fog of sadness lifted, I though 'Grant has a wife?!".

great jon wurster appreciation: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/drummer-jon-wurster-on-grant-hart-the-center-of-a-hurricane-w503420

I have been playing through all of the Husker Du albums, something I don't think I've ever actually done before; as a kid, I got very hung up on Zen Arcade, particularly "Hare Krishna" and "Reoccurring Dreams", and isolated a good amount of my Husker appreciation to that album and specifically those two pieces of music.

I'm still not a gigantic fan of hardcore vocals but these guys are continuously playing their asses off to a degree I certainly didn't appreciate as a kid. Also, "Diane" is a sledgehammer of a song; I almost got hung up on repeating that but I really want to go through the whole catalog before circling back on obsession points.

I am finding that I like this band even more than I thought I did, which makes me sadder about Grant's passing and that I didn't appreciate what he and his bandmates had done more while he was alive.

RIP

particularly "Hare Krishna" and "Reoccurring Dreams", and isolated a good amount of my Husker appreciation to that album and specifically those two pieces of music.

I always wished they'd done more things along the lines of "Reoccurring Dreams." Given how incredible it is (particularly the live versions), it's sad and kind of bewildering that they never went back to that well.

They did a mean helter skelter live which is a kind of similar thing - basically a vehicle for weird jazz rock improv noise. There was version on the 'don't wanna know if you are lonely' 12"

I feel like reoccurring dreams and the last two songs on flip your wig might have been somewhat influenced by Greg norton's king crimson love? They feel like punk rock manifestations of like Red, Fracture, Sheltering Sky...

he's from Serbia and said Grant played Serbia in 1994

Coincidentally came across what might be a recording of those shows the other day (link says 1995) -- from the soundboard, great quality.

http://ivemadeyouatape.blogspot.com/2011/03/grant-hart-live-kst-beograd-1718111995.html

Hare Krishna is a personal fave, just a huge mountain of sound collapsing around you

Marshall Crenshaw did a really nice cover of "Twenty-Five Forty-One" (starts around 3:30). You'd have to go some to do a bad one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWs4nnLKAr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6Z8BHiH1g

......

I feel like reoccurring dreams and the last two songs on flip your wig might have been somewhat influenced by Greg norton's king crimson love? They feel like punk rock manifestations of like Red, Fracture, Sheltering Sky...

― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Friday, September 15, 2017 3:17 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"How To Skin A Cat" and "The Wit & The Wisdom" have long sounded to me like MX-80 Sound originals, but I can certainly hear KC, now that you mention it.

RIP

Another vote for where can we hear that version of "Little Johnny Jewel." Or is it in that same place in the Twin City Ether that "Wally" is? /Asking for a friend

There's a version of Now That You Know Me played here:

its on that posthumous The LIving End live LP, too

So it is! I never really listened to that live album, maybe I should. I recall at the time it sounded pretty bad, especially compared to all the other boots I had from previous tours.

I moved back to teaching grade 3 the past couple of years, and I'm glad I made the move, but I really wanted to be back in grade 6 this week. I would have spent a half-hour talking about Grant Hart and showing YouTube clips--talked about Husker Du's importance to me, but mostly tried to place them in the context of 1984, alongside some names they knew at least a little bit about (Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince). One thing I really liked yesterday was when the guy across the hall, who I'd estimate is 10 years younger than me, said that news about Grant Hart showed up on his Facebook wall. I said that mine had been wall-to-wall; just a single post on his--he'd never heard of Husker Du till I mentioned Hart's death the previous day. These things resonate more with me nowadays when I move outside the bubble where Husker Du are as much a fact of life as the Beatles. I love that, even though the biggest part of my social world was immersed, there's this whole other part who have still never heard of Husker Du, and for a few of them that would change now.

A clearer explanation of some of that, down towards the bottom (I wrote this about 15 years ago, and don't want to repeat it all).

That's the sort of stuff I was thinking about earlier on one of the HD threads. At the band's peak they were still lower profile than, say, the Replacements. Even back when the band was broken up but the music was fresher it was still something many had to discover. Now it's been, what, 30 years since the band broke up? That's as far as the Beatles were from their end in 2000 (coincidentally when the "1s" album was released and "reintroduced" a new generation to the Beatles, of all bands, the one band you'd think wouldn't *need* to be reintroduced). I figure only a fraction of people who bought Copper Blue in large numbers worked backwards toward HD, and then I figure only a fraction of those people clicked with HD. Anyway, I think a lot of people took HD's legacy sort of for granted, but I've been heartened by the number of pieces I've come across the last couple of days that have capably provided both context and also a fair assessment of the group's indie/punk/pop/whatever linchpin status.

This is a all a jumble, sorry, but it reminds me of my shock when "Never Mind the Bollocks" finally went platinum maybe 25 years after its release, and I thought, really? One of the most written about bands of all time, a true before/after touchstone, and there's literally just one album, and it took that long to sell a million copies? Husker Du never had a chance, let along Big Star, or the VU, or Eno's solo records, or the Stooges, or all sorts of cult touchstones.

If my estimation is correct, the guy across the hall is around 45. He's a music fan, but far from obsessive--family, etc., not anything that would ever come up in conversation. He said that Nevermind was important to him when it came out (making him 20 at the time), but he'd never heard of Husker Du. That seven-year gap from 1984 to 1991, in view of his age, would be significant.

has anyone considered that saying the words "Hüsker Dü" was intimidating to people*, so they didn't buy the records? i had to find Zen Arcade at the library -- and obviously i am eternally grateful to the person who put it there -- but walking up to a record store clerk and asking for Hüsker Dü? nah. Also I think people confused them with a metal band bc Metal Circus + they sounded like a metal band name.

I always thought their name was a clever gatekeeper. Once you get past it. you are rewarded over and over and over. Getting past it isn't for the weak though!
Bob went on to name his next band Sugar, which is definitely more...wait for it...palatable. haha!

*ps I am a woman and I know exactly 1 other female genuine HD fan, my hs bff. (real = had/cherished albums, wasn't just a fan of a song or two or Sugar)

I think that's absolutely true about Metal Circus--first time I saw that title in print, I assumed they were a metal (or at least noisy industrial) band that wouldn't be of interest to me.

It is sort of metal, though!

RIP. Love this band and have been listening to them a lot.

A lot of people who like them still hesitate over how to pronounce it! Yesterday on the interstate car ride I had to restrain my pedantic side

And the umlauts, at that point in music culture, meant you were at least on the outskirts of metal

Clearly the band clicked with me, but I wonder if it really does boil down at least in part to a childhood affinity for the Husker Du memory game that my family and I played.

Yeah it was an instant recognition for me too, we had that game since I was a toddler

This is the one I still have:
https://vinylthriftchaser.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/il_fullxfull-99292466.jpg

My mom keeps everything but I don't think she kept the board games :(

We had that game too. In the Twin Cities, people le drilled through the playing pieces and wore them on necklaces to show the likeminded they were in the Hüsker Dü fandom (the game itself is Hūsker Dū).

the name creates a strong insider/outsider dynamic -- which is good for the insiders but not exactly inviting to outsiders
huge reward for those who make the leap though!!

There's some novel--haven't read it; maybe someone knows the title--where, in a terse, noirish style, the detective-narrator says something like "She asked if I had any Husker Du. She pronounced it 'Hŭsker.' I let it pass."

Is it "hoosker" with "oo" like "hood"? Iirc, that's how Kim Gordon sang it on "Screaming Skull". I sort of figure that no one except maybe Frederik is pronouncing it like the Danish anyway so don't stress about it too much.

(Just went from Metal Circus to '83 Iron Maiden, btw.)

I figure only a fraction of people who bought Copper Blue in large numbers worked backwards toward HD

hi!

It's Hoooooosker - they're named for the game, and that's how the v/o guy pronounced it in the game commercial, and how the band members said it. Grant was the only one of the three I actually knew, because we hung out at the record store I discovered downtown when I was 15. John Peel pronounced it the 'other' way, so most of Europe does too (except for the Scandinavians).

It is sort of metal, though!

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, September 16, 2017 10:29 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's funny, in relistening to Husker Du over the last few days, I'm reminded of why I could never get into most metal, and how Grant Hart is the reason. He had this loose, swinging, but still ahead-of-the-beat-rampaging quality to his playing (he is among *maybe* the 3 or 4 other drummers ever who really internalized Keith Moon's innovations) that I love, whereas so many speed- and thrash-metal drummers were all about precision. I never understood that...it struck me as a really conservative and predictable approach. I can't think of hardly any post-Husker Du drummers who even attempted to swing the way Grant did.

It's pronounced like Big Hoos the OTMarker

OK, found a commercial and KG does sing it that way. Hm, interesting: everyone I knew in Ottawa who talked about Hüsker Dü used the "hood" sound for the first vowel and put the stress on "dü". 2xp

That's an interesting point about the drumming, Tarfumes. I never really put my finger on what it was that distinguished his drumming style: that's a good description.

yeah, agreed, thanks for that

Him and Hurley were really original, idiosyncratic SST drummers whose unique attributes I think became more apparent later. The blitzkrieg swing of Hart is just nuts, though. Like the non-stop fills of, say, "Divide and Conquer" or "Every Everything?" Just lunatic. Keith Moon comparison on the money.

Holy shit, I just googled to see if the band ever covered the Who, and maybe they did, but I came across this, which is just so unlikely and maybe fake that I believe it's real:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvnEcz6PJKQ

Thanks, and I remember when I first saw Sugar I thought that Bob needed Grant's drumming far more than he probably ever realized.

xxp

yeah that Palmer cover is real and has popped up in all sorts of places (Ned's a fan).

I must admit to being none the wiser about the pronunciation. Not that it really matters. Heh. I've had an off/on relationship with the band, and totally understand the issues folk have with the production, which seems maddeningly muddy and flat, albeit absolutely part of the aesthetic. Hart always seemed too old to me - one of those characters who seemed borrowed from death. 57 is no age. RIP.

Ha, speaking of Husker Du and the Who and Sugar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m7rw6ow-YI

(I was at this show, mainly to see openers Scrawl, but I left four songs into Sugar's set because I was so disappointed. Needless to say, I should've stayed.)

I seem to recall one reason Sugar dissolved (hah) is because Malcolm Travis, the drummer, had panic attacks trying to live up to Mould's perfectionist standards or something. It can't be a coincidence that Mould first went with session guy Anton Fier then the metronomic approach of Travis (which I actually like).

And xpost yeah, I want to say early Sugar also covered Iggy's "Dum Dum Boys" a bunch.

I thought Travis a fine drummer for Sugar.

I remember when I first saw Sugar I thought that Bob needed Grant's drumming far more than he probably ever realized.
otm!!

"fine" is fine but it's gonna sound weak compared to grant's playing
tarfumes so otm about his style too

I remember when I first saw Sugar I thought that Bob needed Grant's drumming far more than he probably ever realized.
otm!!

"fine" is fine but it's gonna sound weak compared to grant's playing
tarfumes so otm about his style too

weak is the wrong word -- just less interesting, less full of heart.

I never thought of that moon-grant comparison... that's really fruitful!

Needs to be said how much the drummer in MBV owed to grant (and Keith)

Colm would happily agree.

We watched Every Everything last night. Easily one of the best rock docs I've ever seen, but more importantly, just a good character study. Having him be the sole focus of the story, clips aside, and having it be all his words, no narrators, no comments from peers or anyone else, means that while plenty is left unsaid that could be, at the same time he gives a real sense, throughout, of telling things as they are -- and his elaborate similes and points of comparison and, simply, his vocabulary, his sense of words and their use -- makes it clear as to why that was the best approach. He doesn't spare himself at all but you never get a sense that he knows exactly where he stands and why in terms of ethics either, whether he measures himself internally or considers how the outside world would. It's hard to say it caught him at the 'right' time, I suspect -- a couple of years later, maybe in the first blush of the active Numero planning, would have produced something a little different I'm sure, and given that per reports he reconciled with his son as well as finding love, that could have changed the documentary in the end a bit. But there is no such thing as a right time, and having the story framed by his description of his old house before the fire, and what was lost as a result, was a lovely and sad choice -- and in light of jjjusten's stories about how Hart was as a customer and friend, his wide ranging intelligence and interests, and also the realization about his beloved guitar, the deeper waters were more clearly sensed.

Muddled a phrase earlier -- I said 'never get a sense' but that should be 'always get a sense'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeqyCwAeT3I

So yeah, I will take the Keith Moon comparison as well, some super busy playing but with incredible groove and feel.

Mould first went with session guy Anton Fier

there's this hilarious moment in one of the outtakes in the Replacements documentary where Kot and DeRo talk about how much more influential Husker Du was.
clearly takes the interviewer by surprise.

All I remember about Anton Fier is that he said playing with the Feelies made his hands bleed
What is he up to these days? Is he really thought of as a session guy?

In the 90s sometime I bought Intolerance for like $5, ie. at the time very much "let's get rid of it" money, and to this day it's a special record to me. Maybe not an all time great or whatever, but soulful and beautiful, and p much every song on it (maybe not Reprise, lol) means a lot to me. One of those understated albums that it's easy to connect to personally. RIP and love, Grant.

Is he really thought of as a session guy?

Although
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/3283-dreamspeedblind-light-1992-1994/

Anton Fier, one of the more underrated drummers of the New York jazz/rock scene, has had a remarkable career. He was the drummer for The Feelies, The Lounge Lizards, and Pere Ubu, as well as a session musician for everyone from Jeff Buckley to Yoko Ono.

He's been a drummer for hire since the Feelies. Lotsa work with Bill Laswell.

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/anton-fier-mn0000493946

Bill Dudswell

Books About UFOs, Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill, Pink Turns to Blue, She Floated Away: the man could write a manic pixie dreamgirl song.

^otm

Bill Dudswell

He just has the opposite of a Midas touch for me, that guy

The duo record Laswell made with Milford Graves is one of the more frustrating listens in recent memory. Milford sounds wonderful -- it's impossible for him not to -- but Laswell just lets his effects pedals digitally vomit all over everything. Hopefully someday it'll be reissued with Laswell's parts removed.

I went to look something up in the poll, noticed that pplains' great images (Photobucket) were all gone, and found a link at the bottom: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wegaognxlubkifj/AACJr2MaNAVS9N6XbrSO5Oyua?dl=0.

I just revived the/a Laswell thread.

Books About UFOs, Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill, Pink Turns to Blue, She Floated Away: the man could write a manic pixie dreamgirl song.

― Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:53 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark

i've mentioned before how great his songs about girls are but i object to this characterization!

Pink Turns to Blue being about somebody ODing on heroin kinda takes me outta that manic pixie dream girl space

Oh that gal with the whimsical dying on the floor

living on Heaven Hill isn't very dreamy either

Was gonna say

Even the other two don't really fit this imo:

The Manic Pixie Dream Girl exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.

Neither song is about the guy in any real way. I don't think the male speaker even enters the story in "She Floated Away". And a girl who is obsessed with studying astronomy does not seem like a carefree girlish archetype.

Neither song is about the guy in any real way.
exactly -- he wrote songs about women-people as if they were real people worthy of songs, not love objects
i responded to this as a young person and it continues to be something i like about grant hart songs to this day

And a girl who is obsessed with studying astronomy does not seem like a carefree girlish archetype.

But but but...Zooey Deschanel would have played her in the movie!

I bought the 2541 CD single in one of those long boxes which I'd never actually seen before although I've been told we did have them in the UK maybe? anyway I got it from the 99c store in Lakewood, CA about 12 years ago, along with a Volcano Suns CD.

I don't really have a point here I suppose.

They also had the Outrageous Cherry s/t album and something by You Am I.

I guess my point is 99c stores 12-14 years ago were a great place to buy surplus stock from SST.

Man, listening to "Flexible Flyer" is a real punch in the gut.

"Flexible Flyer" is my favorite Grant song. They really hit a rich vein on Flip Your Wig. I wish they gave that one to Warners, things could've gone so much better.

I wish Hart and Mould had swapped verses more often like they did on Flip Your Wig (the song).

Man, listening to "Flexible Flyer" is a real punch in the gut
it hurts! hurts so much! (sorry)

it is a very poignant song

"You Can Live at Home" is a total jam. Should be noted Grant had the last song on the last Hüsker Dü album.

Does anyone know whether "Green Eyes" was about his cat? I saw something about it earlier this week but hadn't heard that before. I sing it to my cat all the time.

I came here to post this. This is "Flexible Flyer" from their last show, but it cuts out. The last recorded song of their last show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLVHPwoKcJM

Was struck, noodling around on guitar the other day, how Bob Mould songs are more than often built around aggro power chords, but Hart gravitates toward big, simple, open folk chords. Really highlights the difference between them as writers.

not to split hairs but they both wrote like that, that's a big part of the HD sound. Mould rarely leaves the first position. Off the top of my head, all these songs are based on open chords: Makes No Sense At All, Private Plane, I Apologize, Celebrated Summer, Something I Learned Today, Chartered Trips, Could You Be the One, In a Free Land, Hardly Getting Over It, Divide and Conquer...

This is one death that has hit me hard, said some stuff about it on FB and i wont bore anyone by repeating it here but Grant wrote most of my fave HD songs and this band means so much to me, even though I wasnt even aware of them in my lifetime. Ive been a huge fan for 25 years now and Grants death has been a terrible shock.

May 5, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0wV6iUliiE

xpost I honestly don't know enough about what I'm talking about, but seems like mould songs, while they can be played open, were generally played as power chords. Whereas Grant songs, while obviously bob played them as power chords, were probably written/played open by Grant.

watch any live performance of any of those songs- Bob's hand rarely leaves the first or second position unless he's soloing. he talks a lot in his book about his use of open chords and drone notes

reposted by Brigid on the GH facebook page, feel like i should share here even if it's overkill:

Grant did not want a memorial service but sadly he can’t argue with us about it and we need to do this
to honor him and show our respect for the amazing man that he was. We thought it best to wait a few months so we have time to put The Con d'Or Foundation in place. We also want to make sure that everyone who wants to attend will have the time to make the proper arrangements. We will be looking
at the possibility of a fundraising event which will benefit The Con d'Or Foundation to coincide with the memorial. Grant put a lot of thought into deciding that he wanted the foundation to serve the needs of women artists and we are going to do everything to make it happen and to be what he envisioned. We will let you know the details as soon as we can.

He was the best man (right next to my Dad) that I have ever known and I was so lucky that we found each other. Thank you all for the messages and love, you have no idea how much it is appreciated. The life that Grant and I shared was so incredibly special and something that we kept very much to ourselves. He respected that I am a very private person because for as much of a public figure as he was, he was also very private. Surprisingly, for as non-traditional as he was, he was equally traditional. For as irreverent as he could
be he was equally reverent. I am hoping that following his wishes will help ease the pain and fill the hole that his passing has left until we are together again.

:(
everyone i know who was a fan is feeling this loss really hard.

Not overkill
Thank you v much for posting that here

def check for the new City Pages tomorrow

I've been hesitant to post anything from FB. Just because I'm a stalker doesn't mean that I have to bring everybody else into my world.

That said, her remembrances have been a joy to read. The profile pic of him looking up at the bust of Milton on her page eases me at least into knowing he went out with a peaceful mind.

(Obv., LL, your quote is very appropriate here. It's been me who's been restraining from posting his son's tietheknot pics and going OMG THEY LOOK JUST LIKE EACH OTHER!)

I read that Bob's (stated) reason was it sounded like a contemporary Dream Syndicate song? (mighta been from his book)

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, September 15, 2017 11:40 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i love this reason of Bob's, don't want to sound like this iconic song no one can seem to remember the name of by global mega stars Dream Syndicate that dominated the airwaves and MTV in the fall of 84!!

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, September 15, 2017 12:53 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

iirc Bob said "2541" had the same riff and melody as the Dream Syndicate song, and he didn't want the band to be accused of plagiarism.

It was bs, whatever it was. Bob had no problem sounding like "The Lion Sleeps Tonite" when he did "If I Can't Change Your Mind" a few years later.

http://www.thirdav.com/hd_images/msp_sites/2541_house.html

"At one rehearsal Grant submitted a song, we played through it a couple of times, and after a moment I said, "Grant, I don't know about this one. It's the same riff and melody as a Dream Syndicate song that's out right now." The song was called "2541." Later I realized it was probably about a failed relationship he'd had, that it carried a lot of emotional weight for him at the time, and that it was one of the best songs he'd ever written. But at the time, I just wasn't putting it together. I only meant to point out something. I think it really hurt him, and he think he viewed me as an adversary from then on. Years later I felt bad about it, and I often wondered if it might have been the beginning of the end."

In the passage above, Bob is referring to the New Day Rising sessions, so the song dates to at least 1984, if not earlier.

Terms of Psychic Warfare is Run Runaway by Slade, but mould was ok with that

Nah. But I would love to hear Run Runaway with huge sheets of stun guitar.

I walked around singing "Make Your Own Kind of Music" after I heard it on the radio and it sounded just like the way GH sings "He rides the California Zephyr"
In the KEXP performance he says something about picking musical berries and then the camera showed what I think was a little bowl of raspberries <3

'picking musical berries' i love that

Is it okay to still admire them both? Some of the recent praise for Grant has had a distinctly anti-Bob tone, and I don't think it's a zero-sum game - not singling out this thread, just sayin.

personally, i do not believe praising grant = dissing bob
i love them both

identify with them both too, for different reasons!

yup

definitely wkiw grant before bob and much more interested in solo grant than solo bob but within the realm of husker bob is a genius

Well, that caveat is important. For a guy with some, what, almost 15 post HD records, there is very little compelling about solo Mould, imo. Copper Blue/Beaster, then maybe the last couple, which are very self-aware BOB MOULD OF HUSKER DU records. As a person, however, Mould seems to be in a good place right now.

I consider the first two Sugar records on par with a lot of Husker Du tbh

He probably has like 5 solo albums from the post 00s I haven't even heard

I was gonna make a Spotify list mashing up Workbook and Intolerance to try to create the "lost" Husker Du album (even though I'm sure the real last Huskers record would have been way different, also the production on those two is pretty hard to reconcile they are so different)

Mould's '14 album got looottts of play at the college station here – I was surprised.

And, yeah, Sugar is def on part with HD.

I'm a much bigger fan of Bob's songs in HD, but I agree that most of his solo work is zzzzzzzzzzzz. Grant is more interesting as a solo artist. and no, it's not a zero sum game. They were very different songwriters & that was a big part of what made that band great, that tension.

i can't with Sugar

it's so boring!

It's not a dis on Mould, but post-Du I don't think it's unfair to say that Grant's contributions were diminished, especially as it related to the narrative around Hart being strung out on the last albums.

yeah I can't get into Sugar besides If I Can't Change Your Mind. Bob got aggressively boring almost immediately after HD dissolved.

See a Little Light is cool

Workbook and Black Sheets of Rain kept me company in high school as well as any other albums I had did, and I think Beaster is the best Sugar but it's also the gnarliest. I did not like "Gee Angel"/FU:EL Sugar much, maybe too Sugary for me?

"See A Little Light" is such a good song -- only I just looked at the lyrics and it says "Listen there's music in the air" and for bazumpteen years I thought it was "listen, there's music in me yeah"

lol

Man, I wish I could remember where I read the Workbook review where the writer just went on and on about THERE'S NOT ONE, BUT TWO FUCKING SONGS ABOUT POULTRY ON THIS RECORD.

When I saw Mould a few yrs back he played See A Little Light in the midst of an otherwise all Husker set and it sat just fine among those songs.

I did all the Sugar records, his solo career I've dipped into here & there and its always "good" without being great or really compelling to want to revisit.

Grant's solo stuff, possibly just becuz I'm so familiar with it, has always been more interesting to me.

The FUEL record was boring to me, too much of that one guitar sound.

Selfishly I sort of wish he had retired the electric band set up after 98 and go the full Richard Thompson route

He plays Hoover Dam and If I Can't Change Your Mind live with the distortion and I don't really get it. Has this dulling effect after a while.

I can live in the Mellotron solo in "Hoover Dam" forever.

I can imagine Workbook as "aggressively boring" – I don't think so; the album was a comfort to me in early college too – but Sugar?

I can remember the exhilaration when I first heard "Helpless" and "Changes" on the radio.

MoTreacle, I saw a Bob solo show a while back (with Kristin Hersh, Christ, maybe 2005?) and it was pretty Richard Thompsonish except louder.

lol I was such a purist snob back in the day that I have STILL not fully listened to Candy Apple Grey or Warehouse, let alone Sugar! I did review The Argument like 4 years ago, I like that one. Definitely need to hear Intolerance.

my loss w/those later Husker records, I know, but when I tried I couldn't get past the terrible sound, whereas all the earlier stuff sounds fine to me.

when I saw them in '86 it was the first time I had seen a circle pit in a big venue, even at like lol age 20 I was like "these kids are RUINING MY HARDCORE"

Pits at those late Husker Du shows were confused phenomena. Like pretending to throw the ball for the golden retriever, and it still runs furiously to find it.

This one is especially insane (people jumping from the balcony into the pit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1fBMtaVd9s

btw that is easily one of my favorite live videos on youtube, full on stun guitar, and Bob plays his guitar like it's a machine gun

I was such a purist snob back in the day that I have STILL not fully listened to Candy Apple Grey or Warehouse, let alone Sugar!

haha that was me too. except i did give mould's post-du career a shot for awhile and found things to like about both workbook and copper blue. but the noisier his post-du guitars got, the less i liked him. i thought the guitar sound was consistently terrible and hard to listen to for any length of time. whereas his gtr sound in husker du's heyday is one of my favorite things ever.

i still don't have much use for warehouse, though listening to "could you be the one" this week for the first time in years i can appreciate, even fall for, the craft. change some words and clean up the sound and it would be a good sitcom theme song.

i would still take my least favorite post-Huskers solo song (which might be "Gee Angel" if I had to pick) over "Dyslexic Heart"

I'm p sure i heard Land Speed Record on college/indie radio, but i didn't actually get to a gig til the New Day Rising tour, where I got socked in the nuts in the pit.

i guess that was Sugar not solo but whatever
i irrationally hated that song the first time i heard it

sorry you got socked in the nuts, dr m

thx, i got over it.

i would take getting socked in the nuts in a pit over "dyslexic heart."

really really didn't like Warehouse at the time, but I sure as hell liked the below…watching this now is awaking muscle memory from watching this over and goddamn over…is it possible this has not been posted yet? sorry if it has…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vefkvjcjNj8

that joan rivers perf is the one that made me start to appreciate "could you be the one." listening to it again right now i can hear pretty much sugar's entire oeuvre inside that song.

that something i learned today clip is great

it's so nuts that in 1984, Purple Rain, Zen Arcade and Let it Be all came out of Minneapolis

was kinda disappointed to read in Bob's book that "Could You Be the One" was a total toss-off, I forget the exact phrase he used but he essentially called it totally meaningless & an assembly line sort of song. he said the same thing about "Don't Know for Sure," which I can see more sort of, even though I love that song too...

there was a real cookie-cutter quality to late-era Bob HD songs

"Could You Be the One" is where he learned to write a Hart-style knockoff minus the desperation

Even "makes no sense at all" is a bit cookie cutter imo

The only non item on FYW I would say that about

Typo bob = non

that is one sublime cookie cutter.

(the cookie cutter that cut "makes no sense at all" in particular, that is)

Keeblerian in its grandeur imo

lol

Even "makes no sense at all" is a bit cookie cutter imo

― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:48 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omg...

fwiw that was the song that got me into Hüsker Dü. i was 19 and found that music video and was hooked instantly. so much fun to play on guitar

that was the song that got me into Hüsker Dü

Same. It was the first I heard and I still really love it. The second I heard was "Eight Miles High", which really knocked me out.

I do like it but the lyrics are unusually dopey for a Huskers song

HI DERE

the hokeyness of the lyrics feel of a piece with their cover of Love is All Around. Makes No Sense At All totally sounds like a tv theme song.

that's part of what i didn't love about it
eight miles high on the other hand - looooooooooooooooooooove

enjoyable funny interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzAhcyZDKo8

he gripes about the death of classic thrift store shopping

Not really tangential I mean relevant to this thread but, the little pentatonic- no four note- guitar melody in "Eight Miles High," I think it goes D,B, G, A, every once in a while I hear something like it in a jazz tune during the soloing and I wonder, did Roger McGuinn hear it on a Coltrane record as did others, or is it just popping up due to the law of averages, about which The Beastie Boys may have had something to say.

It is reputed to be a direct Coltrane homage

"India" iirc?

We were on a tour of America, and someone played us the Coltrane albums Africa/Brass and Impressions. I had just picked up a cassette recorder – it was such a new thing, you couldn’t buy any tapes to play in it. But I had some blank tapes so recorded the Coltrane albums, along with some Ravi Shankar, and took them on tour. It was the only music we had, for the whole time on the bus. By the end of the tour, Coltrane and Shankar were ingrained.

There was one Coltrane track called India, where he was trying to emulate sitar music with his saxophone. It had a recurring phrase, dee da da da, which I picked up on my Rickenbacker guitar and played some jazzy stuff around it. I was in love with his saxophone playing: all those funny little notes and fast stuff at the bottom of the range.

Yeah. Just looked it up and listened to it. Pretty obvious. Feel like I must have noted it before and forgotten.

Pits at those late Husker Du shows were confused phenomena. Like pretending to throw the ball for the golden retriever, and it still runs furiously to find it.

Haha otm. I was in the balcony, afraid as I was of possibly getting hurt in the pit, but it was kind of hilarious: one, maybe two kids slam-dancing (I didn't hear the term "mosh" until the '90s), everyone else just digging the show, maybe unobtrusively pogoing.

was kinda disappointed to read in Bob's book that "Could You Be the One" was a total toss-off, I forget the exact phrase he used but he essentially called it totally meaningless & an assembly line sort of song. he said the same thing about "Don't Know for Sure," which I can see more sort of, even though I love that song too...

"I Don't Know For Sure" always struck me as a blatant rewrite of "Makes No Sense At All," but in the classic "I Can't Help Myself"/"It's The Same Old Song" sense.

Ha, that is indeed one of the canonical examples.

haha yes otm. probably why I like "I Don't Know for Sure," which really does have lyrics that read like a homework assignment done in the hallway on the way to class

It doesn't surprise me at all, it doesn't mean its not great.

re: solo Bob, I like Workbook a lot, and the two solo albums he did post-Sugar. I find Bob's at his best as the petulant, betrayed one - he does self-pity and self-righteous anger really well, cf Poison Years, Whichever Way The Wind Blows, New No 1 and Anymore Time Between. Bob-as-craftsman, I agree, is kind of dull, though I must also say that I find pretty much all of Grant's albums to also be patchy. Grant always struck me as more mercurial than Bob, who was more consistent and more dependable, but rarely hit such peaks as Grant, who seemed looser, less self-conscious, more open and more up for taking chances.

I found Bob's memoir sour and unreadable.

Actually I just revisited the hubcap album and it is strong throughout.

it's so nuts that in 1984, Purple Rain, Zen Arcade and Let it Be all came out of Minneapolis

yeah, otm - is there a decent book or article or something about the minneapolis music scene around that time?

There needs to be one, kind of like that will hermes nyc one

how closely connected was the world of husker du, replacements etc with what prince was doing? was there much crossover at any level at all or did they just happen to be uin the same city(ies)?

Tigger is my friend and really proud of him for this, the Grant Hart story that needed to be written, this is Grant's life outside of those free years he was in Husker Du. glad Keith published it but mad he cut my quotes haha, anyway another ilxor gets in a great cutting remark about Mpls haha

http://www.citypages.com/music/remembering-grant-hart-1961-2017/445840373

Re: Prince, best I can make out is someone in the Mats or HD occasionally bumping into him at a show or in the bathroom. This was really good:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/paul-westerberg-remembers-prince-i-cant-think-of-anyone-better-20160422

Matt I just read that piece during my subway ride to work. I wonder what all the determined young product managers thought about the old gross guy looking at his phone and crying.

anyway another ilxor gets in a great cutting remark about Mpls haha

I was discussing this with my wife last night and I casually mentioned this line to her and she said "you know that's going be the pull quote"

A great piece. He really captured it, he talked to all the right people. Great piece.

W/r/t Prince, I doubt there was "crossover" exactly, though I am sure, esp Prince, was aware of what was going on. I mean he read the local critics, he usually knew what as going with the scene, he knew about my band which, ha, is a story for another time.

iirc Prince, his bodyguards, and two very beautiful women ended up seeing Wives, the LA band that became No Age

I think he got there right after the show finished (limo parking downtown is a bitch), he was just seconds away from an incredibly sloppy & impromptu Jesus Lizard cover, natch

it's so nuts that in 1984, Purple Rain, Zen Arcade and Let it Be all came out of Minneapolis

yeah, otm - is there a decent book or article or something about the minneapolis music scene around that time?

I am hesitant to mention this ITT, because it's frivolous and goofy and involves Semisonic, but. The first chapter of Jacob Slichter's book "So You Wanna Be a Rock & Roll Star" addresses exactly this. His theory is... because it's cold. Because fans will only wait outside in the cold to hear good bands, the bands need to be very good indeed.

I once interviewed Westerberg and I asked him if the Replacements could have happened in Hawaii. He didn't think so, iirc.

Matt Cameron once told me he thought there were so many bands in Seattle because houses there typically had basements to rehearse in, and the terrible weather meant kids had to stay indoors a lot

xpost Reasoning being everyone was stuck inside and needed stuff to do!

see also: vibrant music scene in Iceland. Australia and New Zealand, can't explain that.

By this logic, the best bands should theoretically come from the Arctic Circle. Jewel to thread

Terrible weather is def a factor, I will say an important and I think underrated reason is MSP had (and has) for whatever reason, the infrastructure, meaning clubs, bars, colleges, instrument stores, record stores, PA rental places, American Legion/Knights of Columbus halls, etc and that a density of those places as well, not just one or two.

Even in 1990 or 91 when I was getting involved there were...5 great record stores (Let It Be, Northern Lights, Roadrunner, Garage D'or, Oarfolk) in addition to "bigger" places like Cheapo, Electric Fetus, etc, etc.

And, hugely important: Every single Tuesday night was "New Band Night" at the Entry for...twenty yrs? All you had to do get a gig was call and maybe send in a demo, maybe not even that, I can't remember if my band sent our tape. So not just a place to play like a real gig but you met other bands and other people. I've been friends with people whose bands played the same night as us in 1995 ever since.

yeah there's always been at least one venue in town where you feel like literally any kind of crazy show could happen, the First Ave/Entry and now the Turf Club now are very corporate but there was the heyday of Big V's Saloon, then the Hexagon, now it feels like the Eagles Club is that place

we always seem to pull one dive that now one cares about just ahead of waves of gentrification

And, hugely important: Every single Tuesday night was "New Band Night" at the Entry for...twenty yrs? All you had to do get a gig was call and maybe send in a demo, maybe not even that, I can't remember if my band sent our tape. So not just a place to play like a real gig but you met other bands and other people. I've been friends with people whose bands played the same night as us in 1995 ever since.

― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:20 AM (eleven seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this was huge, sort of a bummer how much First Ave has abandoned local music

infrastructure otm
akron in the 70s produced some good shit
akron in the 90s produced ...? there were some kids in bands but 1) they were all boys and 2) the venues they played were mysterious and consequently out of reach for the teenaged outsider without a personal escort (cool friend/relative) to provide an introduction. there were record store chains and the mall. that's about it.

i guess akron in the 90s did produce that guy who replaced rob halford but cover bands were about the only bands i remember seeing on marquees, and i was looking. nothing compared to what i've heard about the twin cities.

cleveland and even shithole dayton was more happening
it's cold and weather is shitty in all of these places

Twin/Tone was here, Am Rep, Rykodisc, there was a huge distribution center here for every kind of record label from Warners & Columbia all the way down the line.

A huge theater, arts, and comedy scene here as well, especially in the 80s, all of which I think is important.

OK, I'm going to stop I'm starting to sound like one of those "Minnesota is great" ding-dongs

beats Ohio
i wanted to run away to the Twin Cities in high school

i knew it would be better, and turns out i was right!

whoa I never knew Rykodisc was from MP/SP

xxp
ha, I was hugely obsessed with Ohio bands in the 90s, so it cuts both ways.

I don't think they started here but they were based here for ahwile...there is a reason Sugar was on the label.

Ryko had a huge warehouse here, like half of the music scene worked there at some point

some extra stories that didn't make the main city pages story, including the one i related here

http://www.citypages.com/music/lighting-m-80s-with-big-black-feeding-camembert-to-cats-friends-share-favorite-grant-hart-stories/445908383

thanks for the link to the article UMS. those first two paragraphs are crushing :(

i bought that yanomamos record that grant drummed on when it came out, it was ...not really what i was expecting

JJJ& cbesinger quoted in the second piece as well

Second piece just as good as the first. The Atmosphere and Albini stories especially are just fucking delightful. But now I'm crying again

(might have something to do with you can live at home now having come up on my headphones)

oh and jesus christ the off the cuff village green parody! <3 grant <3

re prince / huskers - i like to imagine someone commissioning an ep with grant singing 'the cross' on one side and prince doing 'you can live at home now' on the other. if there's a heaven above...

A huge theater, arts, and comedy scene here as well, especially in the 80s, all of which I think is important.

See also: MST3K.

re prince / huskers - i like to imagine someone commissioning an ep with grant singing 'the cross' on one side and prince doing 'you can live at home now' on the other. if there's a heaven above...

― plp will eat itself (NickB), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 12:16 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh my god

yclahn final section definitely has a bassline prince might like (and which doesn't really have any kindred in huskers discography?)

Can anyone comment on the remastered version of Intolerance (the one with Sic Semper Tyrannus on the cover)? Is it preferable to the SST?

It sounds good, though the only other vers I heard of "Intolerance" was my old cassette copy so not sure if that's exactly audio apples to apples as it were.

The remix/remaster of "Last Days of Pompeii" is crucial

ahem...

If I were a rock and roll timelord, I'd go back to the 80s and create a Night Ranger/Husker Du split 7" with Night Ranger doing "Don't Want to Know if Your Lonely" and Husker Du doing "Don't Tell Me You Love Me" in their respected styles.

― earlnash, Friday, May 24, 2013 10:30 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hadn't shed any actual tears about this whole thing, until I read the City Pages article on the train to work his morning and totally welled up. Kudos to all involved in putting it together, I'll be saving it in my Minneapolis rock memorabilia box.

Greg Dulli played "Keep Hanging On" at First Ave last night. It was beautiful.

btw I think this detail from the City Pages article isn't getting enough attention, very exciting

After this news, Hart continued moving forward in the face of finality. He and his former bandmates finally agreed on a deal with the Chicago reissue label Numero Group to release Savage Young Dü, a box set of material from Hüsker Dü’s pre-SST days. And Hart continued recording music. He, Mansfield, and Piotrowski completed the first Yanomamos album since that boom box recording back in 1989, and he’d been working with Wisti on Pop Manifestos, a concept album based on Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. (In accordance with Hart’s wishes, both projects will be released posthumously.)

xpost The thing that always kept Grant Hart and Bob Mould united in my mind was the amount of space and detail they could summon with just an electric guitar at solo shows. Dulli captured that.

did he play it solo or did the band play too?

Solo, before the band came back out for the encore. Har Mar Superstar (who opened) sang some harmonies.

1) Schoolbuses Are For Children is so great
2) The opening part sounds very similar to the opening notes of "I Can't Make You Love Me" and as it turns out, the emotional effect is totally transferable
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmRyeEgO59M

also love that pic

i wanna be in a grant hart tribute band so bad

That song also reminds me of some Bowie song I can't quite place. xxp

His late singing really reminds me of Bowie a lot. Something about the inflection and the way he drew out words.

I was just thinking that while listening to the argument last week! There really is a tincture of Bowie in his voice there!

^^ Same. Even had to remind myself that it was released three years before Black Star.

So good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCBd7e0wCBQ

^And just to make it personal, this is about as good as anything Sugar ever did.

I loved that Nova Mob album at the time. Dug it out a few weeks ago and it stands up.

^And just to make it personal, this is about as good as anything Sugar ever did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cejMKLwT-Y

Full setlist:

Never Talking to You Again (Hüsker Dü song)
Flip Your Wig (Hüsker Dü song)
I Apologize (Hüsker Dü song)
A Good Idea (Sugar song)
Changes (Sugar song)
The Descent
I Don't Know You Anymore
Hold On
If I Can't Change Your Mind (Sugar song)
Hoover Dam (Sugar song)
Hey Mr. Grey
Love Is All Around (Sonny Curtis cover)
Makes No Sense at All (Hüsker Dü song)

(This was an outdoor gig a couple days ago in San Francisco)

grant did old empire quite frequently in his solo sets, also last days of pompeii & admiral of the sea

Wow, that's a lot more older songs than he usually plays. and I don't remember him playing "Flip Your Wig" recently.

oh man "Never Talking to You Again," I don't know how to take that

That's a cool version of it.

I was wondering the same thing though. When they picked songs of each other for Karl Mueller's benefit, that's the one Bob went for then as well.

It's like

"Hey, Bob. Just wondering. What would be your favorite Grant –"
"NEVER TALKING TO YOU AGAIN."

And didn't Grant choose an all too apropos Bob song that night? Hardly Getting Over It?

Since his concerted effort sort of comeback Bob has been playing a lot more Husker Du the last few years. I saw him solo earlier this year and was actually sort of bummed how little the setlist changed from night to night, given all the stuff he could play. He did play a handful of really early HD songs, iirc.

Yeah, this is what Bob did in April:

Hoover Dam
Your Favorite Thing
Losing Time
See a Little Light
The War
I Apologize
The Descent
You Say You
Lonely Afternoon
Sinners and Their Repentances
Stand Guard
Chartered Trips
Hardly Getting Over It
Flip Your Wig
Voices in my Head
Hold On
If I Can't Change Your Mind
Daddy's Favorite
Black Confetti

Encore:
Love Is All Around
In a Free Land

ahhhhh great closer

that second nova mob lp is great. my copy is scratched to absolute fuck from playing it to death back in the day, but I dug it out again when Grant died, and a sturdy new needle ensured I could make it through If I Was Afraid/Coda, still one of my favourite Grant songs

The Story of Hüsker Dü’s Grant Hart, in His Own Words: In one of his final interviews, the late drummer recounts his family’s troubled history and his most formative early life experiences, including the death of a beloved brother.

This was great. A Grant Hart memoir would have been wonderful. I look forward to spending some quality time with those sleevenotes.

really nice Grant story from a new interview with Dean Spunt (No Age):

STEREOGUM: I guess my last question is: I know you go deep into the history of punk rock, and you and Randy are big fans of Hüsker Dü. As a singing drummer, did you feel any spiritual kinship with the late Grant Hart?

SPUNT: Yes definitely, if you haven’t noticed (Laughs)... I became friendly with Grant. And not so much that he was a singing drummer. I started playing drums and singing not because of Grant Hart, but because of a necessity and I didn’t really know how to drum, I didn’t really know how to sing, I didn’t really know how to put those things together, so for me it was important to try it as an exercise and that’s how I’ve always done things. I tried it out, I didn’t really know what I was doing. But we did become friends, and it’s heartbreaking.

STEREOGUM: I know No Age has played with Bob Mould, but I didn’t know you knew Hart. Are there any memories you would like to share?

SPUNT: Yeah, we played a festival with him in Rotterdam and he played this brilliant solo set, so moving. And we went back to the hotel we were staying at, and me and my friends and Grant, we were all in front of this hotel, and this kid walked by us. He was probably 18 or 19, and he was from there, and he looked at us and was like, “Hey, you fuckin’ Americans!” And he was super aggressive. I wouldn’t say I was frightened he was gonna fight us, but he was drunk and really angry and looked like he wanted to punch us. And Grant put his cigarette down and walked up to him and said, “Hey man, what’s your story?” The kid spoke English, he was like, “What?!” And Grant’s like, “What’s your story, man?” You know, “What’s making you like this, tell me about your father.” And we ended up talking to him for like 20 minutes. He almost brought the kid to tears, he became putty in Grant’s hand, the way he totally shaped this kid’s environment. Just his whole world had turned around. The kid left, I think we all gave hugs, me and my buddy were like, “Damn, man that was intense,” and it was really beautiful.

https://www.stereogum.com/1979361/no-ages-dean-spunt-on-their-new-album-navigating-the-industry-the-late-grant-hart/franchises/interview/

wow

eternal <3 for the generous spirit of grant hart

I love that story !!!

<3

Awesome story, very cool

With Grant's mercurial nature if the story had gone :"And then Grant said he was black belt in tae-kwan-doh and put the kid in a head lock" I would have found that equally believable and charming.

haha

i miss grant hart :(
i was talking about singing drummers recently and his name came up and i remembered that i had the opportunity to give him a hug once. that was nice of him.

Same. I don't tear up quickly. But seeing him in pics. Yeah most def do

fb memories reminded me that it was 7 years ago yesterday that I hugged and talked with Grant Hart
RIP <3

i still miss him so much

Always gotta have a goal...

https://i.imgur.com/mBGs0z6.jpg

Big windows on that pump

To let in the Sunoco

HA! Legitimate LOL

Just stumbled on this soundboard recording of a December 2009 show in NYC. I think I was working late hours around that time (I was working all the way up to Christmas morning before catching a flight back that afternoon), but I really regret not seeing Grant when he was healthy - I only caught his final NY show, one of his very last public performances.

Just stumbled on this soundboard recording of a December 2009 show in NYC.🕸 I think I was working late hours around that time (I was working all the way up to Christmas morning before catching a flight back that afternoon), but I really regret not seeing Grant when he was healthy - I only caught his final NY show, one of his very last public performances.

Man, that's awesome! For a guy who could be cantankerous on stage, he seems like someone who was always appreciative of his fans.

I had an email back-and-forth with Grant around a year or two before The Argument came out. I mean, I assume it was him; did he always write emails in all caps?

I would guess so. In his old Facebook group, he responded to everything in all caps.

From John Giorno's autobiography Great Demon Kings, right after William Burroughs dies:

Just before the funeral service, Grant Hart, one of the founders of the rock band Hüsker Dü, slipped a small white paper packet of junk into William's pocket and said, "Nobody's going to bust him."

Out of all the musicians who were associated with Burroughs (Cobain, Patti Smith, Jimmy Page, etc.), Hart was undoubtedly the closest.

I’d love to finally see the second Nova Mob album get a reissue

Grant’s solo career >>>>>> Bib’s solo career

Bob, lol

Oh, Grant’s post-Husker career was absolutely amazing. Bob’s is an inconsistent mess

I’d love to finally see the second Nova Mob album get a reissue

That record was fabulous. 'If I Was Afraid' ruins me every time.

Oh, Grant’s post-Husker career was absolutely amazing. Bob’s is an inconsistent mess

I think this is half-right. Hart was great straight out of the gate, but given he was nowhere near as prolific in his post-Husker career, kinda working on a smaller scale, especially once his output slowed. Bob was pretty hit or miss until Sugar, which of course was a huge hit (in every sense), then went hit or miss again, but has been pretty solid in his late career (and as a performer, better than I've seen him in years). But then, he's also released 15 or so records since Husker Du, all while touring virtually non-stop.

Mould has been a professional snice 1989; he clocks in and out, doesn't leave fans wanting. Hart wasn't interested in any American notion of a career. No comparison.

<i>Hart wasn’t interested in any American notion of a career.</i>

This clicks with my (brief) email correspondence with him some months prior to the release of The Argument; he simply didn’t see the point of leaving a legacy as such, in terms of his prior material. Art over commerce.

Having not known him, I hesitate to say that Hart wasn't interested in a traditional career, though he definitely settled into that mode at least by default.

Hart’s solo output was the sound of someone who wasn’t weighed down by the legacy of his former band, sonically - the band was one thing and the solo music was something different.

Mould was kind of reverse in terms of carrying the torch for those who missed the sound of Husker Du, with intermittent leftfield moves here and there; but he has always returned to ‘that’ sound in a way that was clearly of little interest to Hart

I guess I knew Grant a bit, he lived his later years with a friend of mine. he lived a chaotic life, I think he was a real artist and he lived that way. but he self sabotaged too, blew opportunities (his failure to really promote The Argument when Domino was really behind that record was a shame), but he could be mean onstage, too. I don't know anyone who could make a room as uncomfortable as Grant. and there were substance issues.

he played regularly around town so often I guess I probably took him for granted, he was always around.

but he really scraped by a lot of the time, and often on the good will of others. One of a kind person, some of the most gripping shows I've ever seen.

but I don't blame Bob for wanting a manageable, healthy life. I saw he got married, he looks happy and healthy. I get a little uneasy about casting it as the great 19th century poet vs. careerist hack. Grant's kind of life probably seems more romantic from a safe distance.

i got nothing useful to add but thanks for writing that ums

Yeah, that's sort of what I was implying, that it's one thing to kind of live a bohemian lifestyle by choice, and another because your choices have maybe left you with few options.

There is definitely some pain in that Grant Hart documentary talking about the house fire etc. that kind of echoed to me like when I saw that Charles Mingus 1968 movie when he got evicted. It is definitely real but does not look like fun.

Re: Bob, I often forget how inconsistent his post-Hüsker Dü career really became because I probably skip or ignore most of it. I love Sugar, but that amounts to a few records - take those out of the equation and there's almost nothing I'd listen to prior to his current work with Jon Wurster and Jason Narducy. (I have Workbook - the promo is pretty cute, designed to look like a grade school composition notebook - but even though I've grown to appreciate the songs, I vastly prefer the new arrangements he continues to do on tour.) Sunshine Rock is great though - I saw the Brooklyn Steel show in support of that album, and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen by anyone. Loads of Hüsker Dü but the rest of the material virtually matched those numbers on-stage. He was especially intense that night - right before the encore, he never left the stage, choosing to sit in from the drums and seemingly brooding with his folded hands in front of his mouth. Eventually he stood up and did one of Grant's numbers. I checked the setlist later and found out he did more songs and more Hüsker Dü at that show than any other on the tour.

I saw Grant only one time and wish I had said something to him. I got there early so I could be in the very front, and there was virtually no one around. (This was at Brooklyn Bowl, with Grant playing first, followed by Mike Watt's band and then the Meat Puppets.) Grant actually seemed to be in good spirits, improvising a hilarious song about Williamsburg for soundcheck. I laughed my ass off, and he seemed genuinely pleased even to have an audience of one. A bit later when there was maybe a dozen more on the floor, he came down and talked to people he knew and I'm guessing some other fans, but I was too shy to strike up a conversation. Then later when he did his set, he mentioned that one of those other fans he talked to mistook "Celebrated Summer" as one of his songs - he then refused to play ANY Hüsker Dü songs (save one he already performed).

Is it just me or do we have this conversation regularly/on an ongoing basis? The chaos/order discussion about Bob and Grant? Lately I’ve been thinking what a miracle it is that Hüsker Dü existed at all. We are lucky to have both of these amazing creative people working together creatively to such spectacular results. Also Greg is good too.

Lucky to * have had*

otm

Greg Norton sort of a punk rock Michael Collins

Lately I’ve been thinking what a miracle it is that Hüsker Dü existed at all. We are lucky to have both of these amazing creative people working together creatively to such spectacular results.

OTM, and it reminds me a little of how Joe Strummer talked about the disintegration of the Clash in the Westway To The World film: if you have this incredible, but incredibly volatile, chemistry, you have to do whatever you can to nurture that chemistry. Joe has a pained expression when he says, “We learned that lesson bitterly.” You wish Hüsker Dü had taken a break or something, but then how can you deal with Mould insisting that Hart would never have as many songs on an album as Mould?

I think I posted a link on another thread, but this is a great oral history of the Minneapolis scene that was published in 2005, and given the animosity thrown back and forth, I was surprised Hüsker Dü lasted long enough to both tour and squeeze out one more double LP of original material - La Lechera is definitely right about being lucky, I can't even imagine lasting 20 minutes in a trio with that kind of dynamic going on.

The one Grant Hart solo show I saw was one of the greatest shows ever: on the middle of a snowstorm in New York, with an understandably thin crowd. Before the show, he stopped me and my brother who was with me to just chat with us. (He was a lot shorter than I imagined!). He quizzed the audience about old car makes and distributed a promo record of American Hot Wax by throwing it to into the small crowd, accidentally hitting a fan.

All of my favorite HD songs, barring "Makes No Sense At All", were written by Grant Hart. I greatly enjoy every part of his solo discography (including Nova Mob), while most of Mould's bounces off me. Mould was obviously more prolific and successful, and I don't begrudge him that, but I think Hart was the greater talent. Just a really superlative songwriter.

I'm glad they were apparently able to reconcile before Hart passed.

Morningstar is one of his best songs.

Also, he sounds uncannily like Bowie on «Awake, Arise!»

Saw Hüsker Dü just once in 1987, at the Fillmore in San Francisco (then known as 'The Old Fillmore').. a few years back (maybe 2011?) my band opened for him at the Hemlock in SF, and he borrowed my amp. I told him about the show I'd seen, his reply "No way man, we did NOT play the Fillmore... we never played the Fillmore, you're out of your mind." And I'm like, but I have the poster man, Christmas opened, I bought a shirt, of you course you did.

Then it occurred to me that maybe he was out of his mind in 1987 and has no memory of it...

BTW his solo set was brilliant but he did appear sort of semi-homeless

Starting a website: bearorhomeless?.com

Grant's house caught fire in January 2011, and partially burned down. Who knows, he may have been literally homeless!

Is the house shown in the documentary EVERY EVERYTHING what burned down?

Curious about his daughter, too, who I think is in her 30’s now.

At some point between '99 and '01 Grant came to the town I lived in to hang out and play a couple of shows with some mutual friends over a few days. And then I guess he just didn't want to leave? He was on the couch of one of the guys in that band for at least a week, apparently never really leaving the living room until night, and that guy's roommates were sick of it. So my friend had to ask one of his favorite musicians to please leave his house and find somewhere else to go. Pretty sure he just left town at that point.

I was too timid to say anything to Grant other than "hey, good show" but I did have to go to my friend's house for some reason that week and Grant was just laying on his couch in the other room the whole time I was there.

Picked up a copy of the remix of Nova Mob's Last Days of Pompeii, one, they did an incredible job with the remix, a very tasteful improvement over the original

Also, it's such a great record, definitely should be considered one of the major post Husker Du works

;_;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xKJm292DQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYrZpgHtoM

https://i.imgur.com/EN0oOEK.jpeg

Not sure if those big tinted windows lets in much of the sun.

That must be the van Billy got hold of.

Miss this guy

Also miss upper Mississippi shakedown

You're The Reflection Of The Moon On The Water is on this long Apple Music playlist I have for if we rent a car to go on a family holiday/visit faraway family, and it came on twice this weekend, and fucking hell it slays. Perfect, perfect garage-rock rager.

otm

Yes. Absolutely A+ song

Indeed! And the louder the better!

I’ve used this song for years in class as an example of compound sentence structure and how it can be employed effectively and memorably. Love it.