Love Will POLL Us Apart – Joy Division – New Order Solo or other groups Poll (aka the Electronic poll) – Artist Poll #37 A New Order supplement poll (Voting is open until Friday, Dec. 8, 2017)

New Order happened to be my first artist poll on ILM. I really didn’t know what the hell I was doing. I was comparing the Talking Heads poll to this poll and was thinking about what I would do differently? It was the sub polls that I got wrong, so I was thinking what the hell.

A pre and post New Order supplement poll:

Ballot Part Number One (mandatory or Part Two) - Your Top 10 Joy Division tracks (or less: min. 3). Please order your list with #1 at the top and #10 at the bottom, no need to number them. I will take unranked lists, just clearly state that yours is unranked.

Ballot Part Two (mandatory or Part One) – Your Top 10 Solo or other group tracks (or less min 3) – This list includes but not limited to: Electronic, Revenge, The Other Two, Monaco, Bad Lieutenant, Peter Hook and The Light and/or Freebass.

A Redo [b]Ballot Part Three (optional) - Your Top 7 Albums or less (min. 3). You can rank anything and in any order. For instance you might think that Electronic is better than Closer or that Low Life is still the best thing since slice bread. Yes, this part is about Joy Division, New Order and the best solo albums overall. I will accept compilations here so it will be interesting to see how something like Substance stacks up.

Send ballots to: neworderpoll AT gmail dot com. Please include your user name.
Voting is open until Friday, December 8, 2017 Midnight Los Angeles time zone (Pacific time).

Electronic fans rejoice!

damn, messed that up. there are Three Parts.

See that girl she's over there
I don't need her she don't care

are Ceremony and In A Lonely Place eligible as Joy Division tracks?

this should be fun

ceremony is the best

are Ceremony and In A Lonely Place eligible as Joy Division tracks?

no restrictions, if you want to vote for it on the Joy Division side be my guest. i do understand why they would get votes.

please also include your user name when you send in a ballot

got the date added to post.

thanks mods!

Three ballots are already in. Yes this is happening

Taking a moment to point out how much more awesome the versions of songs from Joy Division's second Peel session are than the Hannett-produced versions. The album versions of "Colony," "24 Hours" and "Sound of Music" just don't compare.

Electronic is an interesting band for me. i saw them open for Depeche Mode at Dodger Stadium back in the day. a friend of mine had the album but i never bought it. so i have never given them a fair shake. now re-listening to the debut i'm wondering if i did that all wrong?

I dunno, I bought it at the time, it's OK, but.

the Electronic debut still holds up decently, it's certainly much better than every New Order album that followed it. I don't remember much about the others though and haven't revisited them yet.

does anyone rate any other solo projects much at all?

The first Electronic album is one of the best New Order-related albums (including NO, JD etc). Almost as consistent as 'Technique'.

'Raise the Pressure' had a few great tracks ("Forbidden City" "For You") and some good ones. The Other Two have 2 classic singles ("Tasty Fish" and "Selfish"). Hooky has one and a half good songs ("What Do You Want from Me" and "Happy Jack")

Other Two stuff has aged very badly though

Electronic and Technique are Bernard Sumner's peak.

Raise the Pressure is mostly awful, though.

What Do You Want From Me by Monaco is right up there with the best of the 'solo' stuff. Pottsy even sounds like Barney.

Electronic and Technique are Bernard Sumner's peak.

Absolutely.

Also want to rep for some stuff off Twisted Tenderness. Vivid and Make It Happen are both good songs.

What about guest appearances? I love Out of Control by the Chemical Brothers w/ Bernard singing. Higher than a Skyscraper is my fav Hooky guest appearance.

Absolutely, It's solo so it does count

Sumner hasn't written and sung as well as he did on Technique and Electronic

Some Distant Memory should win this comfortably

just listened to both "Out of Control" and "Higher Than A Skyscraper" for the first time. love these kind of recommendations. i like the Hybird song more.

There's also Didn't Know What Love Was with Hot Chip. It was pretty good but I haven't played it in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyKoGPUX_Gc

He sang on Beat Club's Security and on 808 State's Spanish Heart. Both are decent, but probably won't make my top 10.

Really like his vocal on This Time I'm Not Wrong by Sub Sub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDr88sBI3s

Crystal was first released as a Bernard Sumner guest vocal for Corvin Dalek. It's very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egnlo4oUmXg

i love this Sub Sub song!

His guest vocal with Westbam was strange. The verse at 1min is sung completely differently than anything he's done before. It reminds me of someone else, but i can't place it. Also LOL at 'Bernhard'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsNBVMoJo0

and really, really like Hot Chip and that song is good but not great.

this was fun Brotherlovesdub, i really haven't heard any of these songs.

Taking a moment to point out how much more awesome the versions of songs from Joy Division's second Peel session are than the Hannett-produced versions. The album versions of "Colony," "24 Hours" and "Sound of Music" just don't compare.

this is interesting, if you want to include what version you are voting for please do. i will do my best to say what is what but the points will be added to just the one song.

I can just see the Top 10 being all Joy Division songs, really.

I don’t get this poll what are we supposed to be voting for?

xpost
As I understand it the first poll is just Joy Division tracks and the second poll is NO side projects but not including JD.

Are productions included in the side project polls as there's a few cuts on here I'd be tempted to vote for.

Ah right, should have read the OP - good job it isn't a combined thing or the non-Joy Division stuff would just get lost.

Are productions included in the side project polls

Yes, you can include productions credits

I don’t get this poll what are we supposed to be voting for?

Part 1: Joy Division

Part 2: Anything that a member of New Order has done but not inducing anything from New Order. This is for anything that Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook, Stephen Morris or Gillian Gilbert has been involved in outside New Order and Joy Division.

Part 3: Ranking albums, including New Order example:

1. Technique
2. Unknown Pleasures
3. Electronic...

hope that helps if i was a bit confusing.

xxpost

Great, in which case this is going to be very high on my ballot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iRypDlgnSs

that is a pretty good song.

The problem with doing the JD work is that it's small, and there are about a dozen songs that tower above everything, so it's just a question of the order. I would like to make a case for 2, perhaps not usually put in that canon. First is Heart and Soul, that fabulous womb-like thing. Existence; what does it matter? It still sounds like the future to me. Then there's Warsaw, the best example of Curtis' early, angrier voice, barking out concentration camp numbers or something, and some compelling guitar slashing.

xpost
Taking a moment to point out how much more awesome the versions of songs from Joy Division's second Peel session are than the Hannett-produced versions. The album versions of "Colony," "24 Hours" and "Sound of Music" just don't compare.

I was thinking of some of the versions on Les Bains Douches too, These Days in particular

Happy belated Thanksgiving you yanks, meanwhile there is a new poll.

it's nice a gloomy out today, so today is a good day for Substance Joy Division.

Yes, you can include productions credits

Good thing I bought this a few months ago!

https://www.discogs.com/Various-New-Order-Presents-Be-Music/release/9769262

I'm starting to get worried about this poll. I thought a Joy Division poll would be a good idea but it's not looking that way. I don't mind no chatter on this thread but I'm not getting the emails either. Can people let me know if they plan on voting in this? I know the nature of these things is deadline ballots and that's fine, I just need you know if this should continue?

A JD poll is fine but the thread title and description threw people off maybe? I know it left me confused.

i am going to vote but there are a couple of days left, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjfBLcp0Fhw

Def voting on all three parts, but yes, probably on the 8th

The poll concept was confusing and lumping in Joy Division with Marcel King, as good as that MK song is, is a bit of a mess. I understand they're two separate ballots, but I found it odd. I haven't voted yet, and New Order is my favorite band in the world. I obsessively collect the works of Sumner, Hook, Morris, Curtis, Gilbert, either as songwriters or producers, so this poll should be the ultimate for me, but having all of it together has tempered my excitement and delayed my response. The other real issue is, the top 10 side project tracks are basically the first Electronic album, and maybe a single from one of the other Electronic albums. If Pineapple Face, Selfish, or What Do you Want From Me make the top 10, i'll be shocked, and those are easily the best songs from the non-Bernard side projects. Also, opening the 2nd poll up to their productions is wrong to me. Elephant Stone and Looking From A Hilltop have no business competing with Getting Away With It and Disappointed. Love both Elephant Stone and LFAH, but I don't think they should be considered with songs where Hook, Morris, Sumner, Gilbert contribute a performance (rockist scum!). Performance on other peoples tracks makes sense, but strictly production contributions is stretching it a bit, imo. It's not my poll though, it's your poll, but if you're wondering why someone who's favorite band in the world is New Order / Joy Division, has not responded, that's my reasoning.

A JD poll is fine but the thread title and description threw people off maybe? I know it left me confused.

it probably did. i do consider this the Joy Division poll but because of the limited catalog i needed to add more to it.

i am going to vote but there are a couple of days left, no?

December 8, 2017. i took PTO to do this poll so i hope for a good turn out.

to answer brotherlovesdub:

the reason why i added production is because of the four ballots i have received, most only have three to five tracks in Part 2 of this ballot. if opening up a bit to get to the max 10 works then i'm all for it. i really didn't want to put in restrictions on this poll as it backfired on me with my Talking Heads poll but...

let's not vote for production credits, lets just have stuff that any New Order member has actually appears on.

thanks a lot brotherlovesdub, you put this poll in line and it will be better off for it.

i totally forgot about "Elephant Stone" because yes that is not fair and if included it would have to be my number 1 and that doesn't make any sense.

A JD poll is fine but the thread title and description threw people off maybe? I know it left me confused.

I didn't even open the thread until now because I thought this was a poll for solo or side projects of New Order members, especially Electronic. Joy Division was my favourite band at one time but I don't care for New Order or any subsequent projects. If I'm understanding how these three ballots are connected, it's based on the principle that New Order is the core (the heart music) and Joy Division, Revenge, Electronic, Monaco, etc. are all New Order-adjacent projects, which are all being polled at once now, since New Order has already had a poll? I'm still confused about what this means: "Ballot Part Number One (mandatory or Part Two)"

sorry everyone

Part 1: Joy Division

Part 2: Anything that a member of New Order has done but not inducing anything from New Order. This is for anything that Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook, Stephen Morris or Gillian Gilbert has been involved in outside New Order and Joy Division.

Part 3: Ranking albums, including New Order example:

1. Technique
2. Unknown Pleasures
3. Electronic
4. Substance (Joy Division)...

so this is a JOY DIVISION poll with some New Order stuff thrown in because JD catalog is so small.

does this help?

Yes, that seems clearer. Sorry if I was drunkenly snarky. Does this mean that I can submit a ballot for only Part 1 if Parts 2 and 3 are not my cup of tea?

the reason i said mandatory or Part 2 is because some people will just want to vote for Joy Division but others only care about Part 2 or basically the Electronic stuff, so they can submit a ballot and not include a Joy Division ballot.

xpost

yes, Part 1 or only Joy Division works

also only Part 2 works with only related projects works too.

and if people only want to rank all albums including New Order then only Part 3 ballots will also be accepted even if i didn't include that in the original post.

I'll be submitting a ballot for parts 1 & 3

If I'm understanding how these three ballots are connected, it's based on the principle that New Order is the core (the heart music) and Joy Division, Revenge, Electronic, Monaco, etc. are all New Order-adjacent projects, which are all being polled at once now, since New Order has already had a poll?

100% correct

I'll be voting in the Joy Division part when I find some time to put my ballot together.

I will vote in this. New Order have done great production work outside of New Order, but disallowing production credits makes the poll a lot simpler and cleaner.

"What Do You Want From Me" and a couple of Electronic songs could break into my top 20 JD songs.

glad to see people are up for this poll, i was beginning to wonder.

WTF is this and why hasn't anyone pointed it out yet?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=japVdQlB5wE&t=1103s

well that didn't work:

https://youtu.be/japVdQlB5wE

one more time maybe?

https://youtube/japVdQlB5wE

anyways the middle link does work, it's the Joy Division movie called Control but apparently i'm new to the internet.

or so it seems...

just now saw this poll. i'm down.

Bee OK you didn't know about the movie? The actor who played Ian Curtis was incredible.

i didn't as it was all news to me. didn't get a chance to watch yet however.

I will try and vote in this, but I do have a busy week.

Don't know enough JD to vote in part 1, but should I vote in part 2? I haven't heard anything outside of the three Electronic albums and "What Do You Want From Me?", but I also suspect that that encompasses the best ten songs

Last few days to vote

i've been revisiting the joy division discography for this and it's been a blast ("blast" meaning that i'm having fun and that the experience of revisiting closer has been a "blast" like the blast of air from the mouth of a tomb). surprisingly difficult to reduce it to a top ten, i keep shifting songs around

It is physically impossible for me to re-listen to "Decades."

There's absolutely nothing unusual about having a blast while listening to Joy Division - 'Transmission', 'Heart and Soul', 'Isolation', 'Love Will Tear Us Apart', 'Disorder' ... all are booty-shakingly danceable.

The 12'' mix (extended version) of "Getting Away With It" is great! First time I recognized Nile Rodgers' influence on Johnny Marr.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y1_jWXQLdo

listening through the Electronic discography, Raise the Pressure is decent, definitely better than Republic (ignoring Regret) though a step down from the Electronic debut. Twisted Tenderness though is really not very good, it's bloated and is a direct predecessor to the rock-focus of Get Ready.

i kind of doubt "i remember nothing" will do well anyway, but how may other people can't hear it now without immediately thinking of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvPIvoJkmGs

This has been a strange poll. First day I got four ballots and finally, last night, I started getting more. That was a two week gap but my fault as I don't like to keep the voting period open for to long. This one I did want to open before Thanksgiving, so it was opened up a week earlier than normal.

December 5th, a few more days...

I was wondering if someone can help me out with images for this poll? This is not going to be a huge countdown, maybe 20 slots per side. Email the above box if interested and thanks.

We will talk off line there, countdown will start mid week next week so there should be plenty of time...

opened up a bottle of wine tonight and going to try and put a Top 10 Joy Division ballot together right now.

life is good!

this is hard

all i have been doing is listening to either Joy Division or Electronic for the last two and a half weeks. putting this in order is the hard part and i'm previewing the song now as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZX4byAFCg

Does Joy Division's Peel Sessions (i.e. the Complete BBC recordings) count as an album?

https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-The-Complete-BBC-Recordings/master/23225

So all Friday 8th we can still vote, yeah?

That 98 tour.. man. Funny to look back now and remember it as the last time the 'With Hooky' line up were still all getting along. It was also great (IMO) that they had got back together to just do a few shows rather than punting a new album. I saw the NYE show a few months later but yeah the Reading show is the best record of that tour, Vince Power made room for them in the second-to-last-band-of-the-night slot behind Garbage(!) after Phoenix Festival (where they were due to headline) went tits up. It was the show that made Justine Frischmann want to turn Elastica into a synth-band-with-guitars so she says! Even the first few minutes with Barney talking to the crowd brings the hairs up. The version of Isolation is amazing. Supposedly Shirley Manson said "how the fuck are we gonna follow that" when they came on afterwards..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJjkU9bTqlU

I went to that. Was a bit confused about the Garbage headline thing cos I had no recollection of that, but I looked at the line up poster and I went to see Spiritualized headline the tent after New Order. The line up pictures online also have Curve playing that day in the tent but they definitely did not.

I own that '98 show on DVD and it's a barnstormer. I actually whooped Barney style when they did "Paradise."

So sad/weird that they didnt play Regret on their last tour

Does Joy Division's Peel Sessions (i.e. the Complete BBC recordings) count as an album?

Sure, if you want to vote for this l can include that as an album in that part of the rollout

the update of "True Faith" with the house piano break is marvelous.

Yeah thanks for posting this. I’d never seen this. They are on fire. So good to see the sheer joy of playing again songs they’ve played thousand of times (eg Stephen Morris singing along behind keyboards on BLT)

So all Friday 8th we can still vote, Yeah?

Yes.
I'm going to leave it open all weekend, we need the ballots.

Thanks man, want to contribute but don't have the time tomorrow (moving house)

Thanks - will submit a ballot this weekend!

i will send out confirmation emails starting tonight.

I own that '98 show on DVD and it's a barnstormer. I actually whooped Barney style when they did "Paradise."

I have that video too, but got it for the '81 show and it never even occurred to me watch the other one, having been really disappointed when I saw them in '89. Will definitely check it out now after seeing that Heart and Soul clip. Not a fan of the Barney whoops though.

I have not even received double digit ballots yet, so if you are thinking about voting please, please, please vote as this poll desperately needs voters. Even if you only have a three song ballot of Joy Division songs please send it along.

I sent my ballot about an hour ago. Outside of maybe three or four songs, my JD ballot could have contained just about anything depending on the day.

Good news, the ballots are starting to roll in. Keep voting!

conformation emails are starting to be sent out, if you voted you will get one in the next few minutes to the next hour.

VOTING IS STILL OPEN

I'll throw one together in the next hour or so

after the first 5 choices it became really hard. all my stuff is very particular to me and not at all cannon

I really like “thieves Li

11:31 PM
12/8/2017

a very depressing day

(i'm a SF Giants fan)

sorry got caught up with work. just sent it, hope it's not too late

As an early voter, it doesn't bother me if the entry period is extended.

I threw one in but didn't get confirmation yet

I'm going to leave it open all weekend

not a joke.

Voting has been extending to Sunday Night

I put Tighten Up as my number one. I vividly remember rewinding the tape over and over to hear that song again and again. It sounded like Bigmouth crossed wirh Shellshock (86-87 era Pettibone mixed tracks) and delivered on the sound in my head when I heard Johnny and Bernard were working together. These days the intro sounds terribly dated but the vocals and guitars are great. Bad Lieutenant played it on tour, but I never heard a decent recording of it. It’s a shame these songs from the Electronic catalog are going unplayed. Johnny played a couple on his last tour but his voice is as bad as Hooky’s and nobody really wants to hear that.

I didn't even mind that the sound was slightly fusty even in summer '91.

"Dated" isn't pejorative to me, by the way

Terminal lurker ballot sent under duress. Amazing that after all these years, the effort of picking favorites among JD songs still provokes emotional tugging.

Albums I wish New Order had tried to make:

1984 instrumental album with the long version of 5-8-6 on one side, the long version of Elegia on the other, allowing room for the long version of Perfect Kiss on Low Life
Some sort of dub collaboration with someone like augustus pablo, sly and robbie, etc. digging deeper into confusion, blue monday, etc. more melodicas? slow stuff down?
A full video album's worth of mid 80s live in the studio versions, after they saw the success of the perfect kiss. Demme should have made an anti-Stop Making Sense with them - black and white, no audience, no funny business, no guests, multiple retakes until each song was got right.
An early 90s unplugged album of the hits. Love the slow version of Regret by Afghan Whigs and, yes, the much maligned Frente cover. So some stuff like that sung by bernie (True Faith and Temptation might be good like this) mixed with some campfire singalong style stuff - Love Vigilantes could work well with chugging acoustic guitars or a country strum.
A late 90s live album of JD songs including redoing Sister Ray, the '87 version annoys me. Gang of Four and Mekons' punk re-does were kind of pointless, but sounded good, so I'd be interested in a whole album of Bernie singing Ian's songs, provided the backing still had some teeth from Hook.

Probably all of these would be crap if they actually happened but I like to think about these things.

The full warsaw tape should get released with the sound quality of the three tracks on the box set. I particularly like the versions of Novelty and Transmission. Also, the 1980 no-guitar-overdub versions of Only Mistake and the Kill would be nice, the unimproved version of Walked In Line was interesting to hear.

sent out another round of conformation emails. if you have voted you should have one.

this is shaping up to be a great poll, hope we can get just a few more...

VOTING IS STILL OPEN

Thanks for extending the deadline. Voted.

I sent mine off a few days ago but haven't received a confirmation email so I'm resending just to be safe

I put Tighten Up as my number one. I vividly remember rewinding the tape over and over to hear that song again and again. It sounded like Bigmouth crossed wirh Shellshock (86-87 era Pettibone mixed tracks) and delivered on the sound in my head when I heard Johnny and Bernard were working together.

agreed, great song (though I didn't submit a part 2 ballot)

1984 instrumental album with the long version of 5-8-6 on one side, the long version of Elegia on the other, allowing room for the long version of Perfect Kiss on Low Life

I love those long versions, but more as background/concept pieces rather than album length ideas. And I never understood the need for the edited version of Perfect Kiss, other than their insistence on not having singles on albums. Why not have "Face Up" closing Side 1 and the eight minute "Perfect Kiss" closing Side 2?

A late 90s live album of JD songs including redoing Sister Ray, the '87 version annoys me. Gang of Four and Mekons' punk re-does were kind of pointless, but sounded good, so I'd be interested in a whole album of Bernie singing Ian's songs, provided the backing still had some teeth from Hook.

Have you seen this TV performance by Peter Hook and the Light?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cSe-1Dpv8o

It's the closest thing to the Martin Hannett productions coming to life on stage (as opposed to what JD live really sounded like). The vocals are an abomination for the most part, but the music sounds great.

i'm a bit worried about lost ballots after what ufo said, so if you did not get a confirmation email, please send again.

ONLY A FEW HOURS LEFT TO VOTE

Sent!

POLL Will Tear Us Apart – ILM Artist Poll #86 - JOY DIVISION – New Order solo or other groups Poll (aka the Electronic poll) – a NEW ORDER (#37) supplement poll --- Results Thread