Great albums with terrible last songs

Apologies if this has been done before, I did a search and couldn't find anything. What are some albums that are great all the way through and then have a stinker of a song at the end that you don't bother listening to?

I thought we had as well. Protection was a notable entry

Me likewise, but I too can't find it.

Anyway, Dire Straits' Making Movies wins this thread.

Gilded Palace of Sin

Moving Pictures, kind of.

New Skin for the Old Ceremony

I thought we had as well. Protection was a notable entry

― loud horn beeping jazzsplaining arse (dog latin)

The live Doors cover? I don't think of that as part of the album.

Piper at the Gates of Dawn (UK version) ends with 'Bike', which I find somewhat in-your-face annoying and not a very good album closer.

You crazy.

Les Boys is the only Dire Straits song I like

The Beach Boys 'Today'

Piper at the Gates of Dawn (UK version) ends with 'Bike', which I find somewhat in-your-face annoying and not a very good album closer.

― Valentijn, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 09:34 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

close thread

da capo springs to mind for me, but it's been a long old time since i listened to revelation so maybe it's just me

Three that spring to mind:

You're Living All Over Me

The Notorius Byrd Brothers

Fun House

Agree with The Gided Palace of Sin, Hippy Boy is a bit of a stinker!

Beach Boys - Friends

"Remain In Light" for me. Not that the Overload is bad, it clearly isn't. It just doesn't fit the mood of the record to have a big drawn out downer drone at the end.

yeah not my fave

Signals - "Countdown" promises an epic closer but the tune never really gets going

Most albums where I feel this way, it's bonus tracks. Love vs Money for example, Kelly's 12 Play is the perfect logical way to end that album, and then a second later Let Me See the Booty ruins it.

people seem to say that about "The Overload" a lot but idgi, if anything "Once in a Lifetime" is the sticky out track to me, it's not an album of party jams

not that "OiaL" is a party jam either but you get my point

"Listening Wind" into "Overload" fits fine, texturally and moodwise

Lilys - A Brief History Of Amazing Letdowns

Daydream Nation. I hate 'Eliminator Jr.'

The Soft Machine (first LP) is the closest thing I can think of to a perfect album, but the last track "Box 25/4 Lid" is just 49 seconds of nothing much going on, it doesn't ruin it but if they deleted it nobody would care.

Damn, Vital Signs, Countdown, and Bike are all jams. Y'all cray.

Noodle Vague, how is RiL not a party album when it's got Crosseyed & Painless on it?

Three comments against mine, but I don't know, when I listen to Piper I'm really eager to hear all of that psychedelic wonderful greatness of Interstellar Overdrive, Astronomy Domine, Flaming, Lucifer Sam... anything really, but Bike sounds so different to me. Do people really think of it as just as good as all those other album tracks/a standout/a Pink Floyd classic/fitting in well with the album?

Yes. You actually think "Take Up They Stethoscope" is better?

how is RiL not a party album when it's got Crosseyed & Painless on it?

well for one thing David Byrne is singing on it

put listening wind on and dance to it. feels slinky, right? then dance to the overload. Now you're doing the zombie shuffle. Thats why it doesn't work.

THREAD WINNER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iisYw0epV_Q

yes Joni, definitely end your best album and one of the best albums of all time with a guest spot from Cheech & Chong

weirdly, that was the first song i got into the first time i heard Court & Spark (and Joni in general) but the joke wore thin by like the second go round

i hear RiL as paranoid and twitchy and bummed and "The Overload" as its logical conclusion, the overload, the comedown

"Soul Survivor" feels sort of like an afterthought at the end of Exile On Main Street

I used to think so too, but the drumming! the riff!

yeah no way, "soul survivor rips," less afterthought than condensed culmination. "it's gonna be the death of me" always gives me chills

shift quotation mark one word to the left

New York I Love You, But You're Bringing Me Down

"Compton" is the only song I don't like on Good Kid Maad City, sticks out like a sore thumb

Yes. You actually think "Take Up They Stethoscope" is better?

Um... no, indeed, that one isn't great. I do notice more of a contrast with Bike in regards to the rest of the album though (Stethoscope is also shorter and sounds more like a filler to me). And I definitely wouldn't rank it alongside all those tracks that truly stand out to me. Do you?

Aladdin Sane ends with Lady Grinning Soul, which is not a good song.

And maybe the quintessential example, Neil Young and Crazy Horse’s excellent, overlooked album Broken Arrow ends with a pointless cover of Baby What You Want Me To Do that sounds like it was recorded on a Walkman from the back of a tiny club.

REM’s Document ends with Oddfellows Local 151 which is nobody’s idea of a good song.

"Lady Grinning Soul" is not a good song, it's a great song

you're also fairly wrong about "Oddfellows"

i know ILM is the wrong place to say this but what a wonderful thing consciousness is that it can diverge so wildly between essentially similar creatures

After "Bike" I'm expecting someone to come along and post "After Hours" from The Velvet Underground.

yeah but this is still the wrongest thing in the thread

how is RiL not a party album when it's got Crosseyed & Painless on it?

well for one thing David Byrne is singing on it

― vermicious kid (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:29 AM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Soul Survivor' makes perfect sense as a closer. It's a new beginning after an hour spent wading in delicious muck. Whether it's believable or not is another matter.

I was almost going to include Court and Spark too, but didn't because while I don't find the lightweight, jokey, "Twisted" to be an appropriate album closer, it's not *that* awful a song; it may have gone unnoticed if the other tracks weren't so great. I disqualified The Beach Boys Today because "Bull Session with the Big Daddy" isn't a song, and "In the Back of my Mind" is an excellent album closer. Ending Friends with "Transcendental Meditation" is a headscratcher though given that "I Went to Sleep" was recorded during the same sessions and would have closed the album perfectly.

"Bike" is a fine closer for Piper IMO.

As for 'Bike', I hated it at first but I was still wrapping my mind around Barrett-era Floyd at the time. Can't imagine the album without it at this point, thanks to the tape loop in particular.

dunno if I'd call it terrible but I've always found "Equator" on Kimono My House to be pretty obnoxious

Sunset is by far my least favorite song on Stranded by Roxy Music, not sure if I would call it a bad song though.

The first one I thought of when I saw the thread title was 'Engineers' from Gary Numan's The Pleasure Principle which isn't terrible, but unremarkable in comparison to the previous 9 tracks. I don't think Numan ever played it live either, at the time or since.

'(Exchange)' from Mezzanine is one I could do without.

what no it's a lovely balm after group four

Electric Warrior would be better ending with Life's a Gas rather than Rip Off

Exchange isn't terrible, it's just pointless, especially coming after Group Four.

Massive Attack never quite worked out closing tracks in general, although I do like Hymn of the Big Wheel.

Um... no, indeed, that one isn't great. I do notice more of a contrast with Bike in regards to the rest of the album though (Stethoscope is also shorter and sounds more like a filler to me). And I definitely wouldn't rank it alongside all those tracks that truly stand out to me. Do you?

Probably not, nonetheless I find the idea that it doesn't fit on an album that ranges from The Gnome to Interstellar Overdrive an odd one. Also Take Thy Stethoscope is longer, isn't it?

I may be crazy for nominating Bike, but Sunset has always been one of my favourite Roxy Music songs & part of why Stranded is my favourite album of theirs.
I also think Lady Grinning Soul is amazing.

I would have preferred a track that evokes 'Exchange's mood without being a half-assed reprise.

The first one I thought of when I saw the thread title was 'Engineers' from Gary Numan's The Pleasure Principle which isn't terrible, but unremarkable in comparison to the previous 9 tracks. I don't think Numan ever played it live either, at the time or since.

he's done TPP live so I'm sure he's played it a few times. for me the record is basically one tune in 10 parts. if we're doing Numan I'd rather mention "Zero Bars" - such an odd, wanky closer after the relatively brilliant "Jo the Waiter"

Probably not, nonetheless I find the idea that it doesn't fit on an album that ranges from The Gnome to Interstellar Overdrive an odd one. Also Take Thy Stethoscope is longer, isn't it?

Bike's longer (not by much), it is true that there's a lot of variation and weirdness on that album which is part of why it's such a wonderful record.

As for 'Bike', I hated it at first but I was still wrapping my mind around Barrett-era Floyd at the time. Can't imagine the album without it at this point, thanks to the tape loop in particular.

Could be that I still haven't listened to it enough.

Since we're all here, that thing at the end of "We're Only In It For the Money".

No one metioned Rubber Soul yet?

thomas dolby - the flat earth

the whole album is this gorgeous, beautifully produced atmospheric wonder.
then they put hyperactive on at the end as there was the need for a radio hit.

The inclusion of "Nothing Like You" on Miles Davis' Sorcerer is pretty baffling. It's five years older than everything else on the record, not even needed as filler (the album would be 38 minutes without it), and comes from a session Miles hated so much (with "that silly-ass singer Bob Dorough") that he refused to work with Teo Macero for years afterward.

Downtown on the first B-52's album is an obvious one for me. The album is still a classic despite this one misfire.

Closing tracks that overstay their welcome:
* Zen Arcade - Reoccurring Dreams
* The College Dropout - Last Call
* They Threw Us All in a Trench and Stuck a Monument on Top - This Dust Makes That Mud

come on, last call is fantastic. i could listen to that loop for hours.

No one metioned Rubber Soul yet?

― chap, Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:51 AM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Run For Your Life is a good enough rocker, tho obviously not up to the standard of the rest of the album. I think Dizzy Miss Lizzie is my Beatles pick for this category.

"and this day" on hex enduction hour.

There are worse tracks on it for other reasons, but nothing bores the shit out of me like 'Going Home' at the end of Aftermath

* Zen Arcade - Reoccurring Dreams

This is a highlight -- maybe the highlight -- of Zen Arcade for me. I always wished they released more stuff like this.

Co-sign "And This Day".

Run For Your Life is a good enough rocker, tho obviously not up to the standard of the rest of the album. I think Dizzy Miss Lizzie is my Beatles pick for this category

Tempted to go for "Her Majesty" here but I'm not sure whether it counts as the closing track on the album, being more of a hidden track which isn't what this thread is about.

* Zen Arcade - Reoccurring Dreams

This is a highlight -- maybe the highlight -- of Zen Arcade for me. I always wished they released more stuff like this.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, April 10, 2018 10:31 AM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I would love Reoccurring Dreams as a 4 minute song, but as it stands, I'm pretty sick of it by the 23rd reprise of that riff, and would like the album better if it wasn't on there.

'Reoccurring Dreams' is the only song I care about on Zen Arcade.

Closing tracks that overstay their welcome:
* Zen Arcade - Reoccurring Dreams
* The College Dropout - Last Call
* They Threw Us All in a Trench and Stuck a Monument on Top - This Dust Makes That Mud

― enochroot, Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:24 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sure but they're all awesome? and one of them is a loop ffs

I always assumed the purpose of “And This Day” was to run out the album length to the (titular) hour...

Thriller, "The Lady in My Life."

I like And This Day. It's not, like, a great song, but as aimless jams go it's OK.

There are worse tracks on it for other reasons, but nothing bores the shit out of me like 'Going Home' at the end of Aftermath

― i'm surprised to see your screwface at the door (NickB), Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:30 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Goin' Home' is in the middle of the LP.

last track on the US version

And maybe the quintessential example, Neil Young and Crazy Horse’s excellent, overlooked album Broken Arrow ends with a pointless cover of Baby What You Want Me To Do that sounds like it was recorded on a Walkman from the back of a tiny club.

― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, April 10, 2018 6:06 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

good pick, it really is an underrated album but i think this cover version kind of makes it feel cheap and tossed off (the *album* cover, which looks like a Xerox of a nice piece of art, doesn't do any favors either.)

I really can't think of many good examples of this. I mean, Mercury Rev's Boces probably didn't have to end with Girlfren, but equally why not - at least it's completely bonkers

I also think of “And This Day” along the same lines as the Gaffney song at the end of Sebadoh III – sort of a closing endurance test, to leave the listener bruised & battered. Punk rock, man...

yeah like Fodderstompf

Somebody feel like convincing me "The Grand Vizier's Garden Party" on "Ummagumma" is not a load of old pony?

"Ummagumma" not really a great album though tbf.

kornrulez, The category is "Great albums with terrible last songs." You may not like "Oddfellows Local 151" but is it terrible?

I kinda like it. It's not my favorite song on that album, but in no way is it album-ruiningly terrible.

Ummagumma ends with a mindblowing Saucerful Of Secrets and the studio album is a lie made up to scare children

I kinda like it. It's not my favorite song on that album, but in no way is it album-ruiningly terrible.

― like hell, but with more ketchup (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:30 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

personally i love doomy r.e.m. a la "oddfellows" "old man kensey" and "i remember california"

oddfellows is one of my favourites on document, would definitely rather hear that than any of the hits these days

'Me In Honey' isn't terrible, but it's a very nothingy way to end a very good album.

Welcome to Sky Valley

Oddfellows is decent. Verses better than chorus.

xp isn't that last track technically a hidden track?

The Beach Boys 'Today'

― PaulTMA, Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:40 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xp yeah but still, I wish this had never existed

M83 - Hurry Up, We're Dreaming, "Outro" is the moment when it finally hits the schlock it's been skirting for the whole album

I also think "New York I Love You But You're Bringing Me Down" sucks

lol I think I had mentally blocked "Twisted" out of Court and Spark

Maybe a bit of a challop, but I never really liked the way "Her Majesty" caps off Abbey Road. It's almost like they had too good an ending and they felt an urge to goof on it to show that they weren't taking themselves too seriously with those dramatic chords.

terrible may be an overstatement, but I don't need to hear Torn Curtain by Television again

I have the opposite opinion about "Her Majesty"; I find it reasonably charming and wish it had been taken seriously, or at least included in its "entirety" (though not necessarily last).

The "cut off in mid-song" gimmick wasn't any more welcome when it appeared on Dark Side of the Moon (isn't this where we came in?). I mean I get that you are cheekily experimenting but songs are good, more songs please

I love the fact that Mercury Rev put Girlfren out as a single, whatever in the name of fuck that was supposed to achieve

haha did they!! that's amazing. david baker was too good & pure for this earth

The "cut off in mid-song" gimmick wasn't any more welcome when it appeared on Dark Side of the Moon (isn't this where we came in?)

You mean The Wall.

xp

Yes, they retitled Girlfriend 'The Hum Is Coming From Her'. Apparently there was an argument over which title it would have, so they compromised by using a different one on the album and single. I wonder if that is the reason why it had to come out as one. Surely not. Fuck knows.

https://www.discogs.com/Mercury-Rev-The-Hum-Is-Coming-From-Her/release/7245371

There's a killer live take of And This Day, as a filler on one of the reissues. It pretty much smokes the standard version imho. And yes, it goes on forever but still, it makes it. Whats the last track on Notorious Byrd Brothers? I seem to remember that as a major dud (unless you were tripping, maybe).

anagram: crap, sorry, mea culpa

Also i never liked the medley at the end of Down by the Jetty. Those horns! Yeesh! Btw i just got the Wilko era Feelgoods box from Amazon, and while yes the Cds are nicely done, (remastered etc)and the booklet could've used a proofreader. The DVD is to die for. And is worth the purchase price by itself. My god they were a phenomenal live act in their day.

In fact, think i'll watch it now!

The Byrds had an odd habit of ending their albums with less than stellar tracks.

Massive Attack’s Protection.

Not only do I hate studio albums with live cuts tacked into the end but this cover isn’t good either.

Space Odyssey, that's the one. From it's cornball title on down.

Oh I just saw it was already mentioned.

OK, here's an actual great album (ymmv) with an actual terrible last song - Get Your Goat by Shudder To Think. Funny, the song is called, and funny it is not. In fact it's embarrassing.
Still, the good thing about last songs is they're easy to skip, which was what I always did back in my STT-worshipping days. Just played the song again and it hasn't improved with the years.

I bet ILM consensus says otherwise, but for me it's "Too Long" on Discovery. This is one of the few albums I actually will stop before the last track ends.

Matt #2 – I have a pal who is a STT fanatic! You guys should share notes...

terrible may be an overstatement, but I don't need to hear Torn Curtain by Television again

― kornrulez6969

i'm gonna listen to it again right now!

Love "Torn Curtain", can't imagine that album without it

David Bowie - Heroes. The Secret Life of Arabia is not only the worst one in an otherwise classic album but it’s one of the worst in his entire discography. The last note of Neukoln should have been the real closer.

Not a fan of that album myself btw (I find it’s excess of mid range annoying and the overall performances and production too stiff for me) but as a passive listener that song sticks out so much everytime I go on a Bowie marathon.

Another one:

Led Zep - III : Hats off to Roy Harper

Such a blah song in perhaps my favorite album of theirs.

It’s so Hard from Psychocandy is mildly infuriating because “something’s wrong” would’ve been the perfect closer.

Fiery Yellow from Stereolab’s Mars Audiac Quintet

Hints at the sound they would go for on their following albums but it doesn’t work here tbh. Sticks out too much in this album and it’s way too kitsch even for Stereolab.

It is kind of a skipper although I kind of get its purpose

Kind of a palate cleanser and comedown after a very long single-minded album

David Bowie - Heroes. The Secret Life of Arabia is not only the worst one in an otherwise classic album but it’s one of the worst in his entire discography. The last note of Neukoln should have been the real closer.

Love Secret Life of Arabia, this is the worst suggestion yet imo.

Maybe I overreacted with it being the worst but you have to concede it sounds completely out of place in that album.

This 'out of place' thing - same with "Bike" - I'm not getting it tbh.

While I'm the Bike guy, I also don't get it with Secret Life Of Arabia. Love that song.

Never understood the idea that Secret Life Of Arabia is a weak track. Took me years to even see the point of view that its a piece of fluff, but even then only relatively to the rest of the album.

Now there's Shake It... Hesitate to say Let's Dance is a classic album, but that song is the dampest of squibs to close with. Even Tonight and NLMD's closers are not bad.

I don't mind Secret Life of Arabia but it kinda blew my mind to find out it was actually on the album proper. I'd assumed it was a bonus track for years.

I love Secret Life of Arabia but I'm a huge stan for the "Heroes" album in general. Light My Fire off Protection is still the most OTM answer here for me.

"Listening Wind" into "Overload" fits fine, texturally and moodwise

― vermicious kid (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 10 April 2018 11:38 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agree 100% with this, the whole second side of RiL has a gradual darkening of tone, it's a really well-sequenced record.

"Night Rally" on This Year's Model is definitely one of these. Though I guess most versions have bonus tracks.

Court and Spark is dead right but Mitchell was a repeat offender with The Hissing of Summer Lawns - 9 tracks of amazing limpid jazz pop and then a leaden, overblown synth requiem for the kicker.

This 'out of place' thing - same with "Bike" - I'm not getting it tbh.

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.)

like, if it didn't come out of music-hall tunes about gnomes and scarecrows but out of interstellar overdrive, maybe?

the doors had some amazing album closers but jesus h. christ jr, 'the soft parade' is some awful garbage

'Mother's Lament' from Cream's Disraeli Gears.

"Night Rally" on This Year's Model is definitely one of these. Though I guess most versions have bonus tracks.

― frogbs, Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:26 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the version i have ends with radio radio, but i've grown to really like night rally, even though it's a comedown from lipstick vogue (still the best costello song).

xp Mother's Lament is fine with me, gives the record a personality it might not have had without it. it's an obvious goof, and a nice artifact of '60s british whimsy, even if it's objectively not as good as the rest of the album

"The Soft Parade" rules btw.

nah, soft parade the album is as concise and punchy as the doors ever got, but that song is basically jim declaiming nonsense into his sick bucket after the party's finished

I prefer Jim declaiming nonsense to when he thinks he as something to say tbh.

“Thoughts on a Grey Day” on Bare Trees

ts: "there's a killer on the road/his brain is squirming like a toad" vs. "girl you gotta love your man/girl you gotta love your man"

Secret Life of Arabia and Lady Grinning Soul are both fantastic. Bowie was great at closers.

"B.I.B.L.E." on Liquid Swords.

"Bike" rules btw, favorite song on that album!

Court and Spark is dead right but Mitchell was a repeat offender with The Hissing of Summer Lawns - 9 tracks of amazing limpid jazz pop and then a leaden, overblown synth requiem for the kicker.

― startled macropod (MatthewK), Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:38 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

close thread, hating on "shadows and light" is really something else

"B.I.B.L.E." on Liquid Swords.

― explosion from DOOM courtesy of id software (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:01 AM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fair bc it's a different artist but it's a good song

"The Soft Parade" rules btw.

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seconded, it rules. Ridiculous, but ruling.

"there's a killer on the road/his brain is squirming like a toad"

Never got why this was the go-to lol Jim Morrison lyric. Guy was like 27 when he wrote that, and while it isn't the most profound lyric ever written, Kurt Cobain wrote reams worse and no one ever picks on his stupid lyrics

sorry to derail, carry on

In terms of rock and roll toad lyrics I think Marc Bolan edges it with his "Hiding in the road/Like a Pasolini toad".

Honestly surprised by the Bike love. Is it just blasphemy to dismiss any Syd Barrett?

Not at all, it's a great song, almost sui generis Syd, toytown psych gone slightly psychotic.

If you ever hung out with stoner music guys in college (or were one), you would have a special place for “Bike” in yr heart!

Ha! I guess I'm missing the appropriate social context then.

Your the kind of girl who fits into my world
I’ll give you anything everything if you want things

Classic for that lyric alone

Yeah, there's also just value in a fun / silly (but not entirely silly) song... I actually think its closing position on that LP is perfect.

seems like if you like zany sing song whimsy like "Lucifer Sam" or "The Gnome" then "Bike" isn't really far off. idgi maybe there are Syd fans that are "Vegetable Man was a little too far, dude should've reigned it in" but personally anytime i hear a new Syd track no matter how shambolic im like please sir i'd like some more

as far as bad ending songs i was listening to Zappa's "We're Only In It For the Money" this morning and i love that album but i dont think i've made it through a single listen of "The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny" (and i _love_ Lumpy Gravy so noise collage isn't an auto turn off for me, it's just not very engaging coming after a dozen fast uptempo flower punk songs)

Also it's SIX AND HALF MINUTES long.

that's such a quintessential Zappa thing to do

You mean sticking an annoying piece of crap on one of his albums? Too right.

I'm sure many will disagree but Vitalogy by Pearl Jam is a great record, and the last "song" "Hey Foxymophandlemama, That's Me" stink to high heaven.

David Bowie - Heroes. The Secret Life of Arabia is not only the worst one in an otherwise classic album but it’s one of the worst in his entire discography. The last note of Neukoln should have been the real closer.

Absolutely agree, one of his worst songs-- but I don't think the rest of the album is "great" either.

Bowie was great at closers.

Also agree.

You mean sticking an annoying piece of crap on one of his albums? Too right.

not just any one of his albums, but one of his absolute best, the one that even his detractors could point to and say "I'd like Zappa if he was more like this". my working theory is that Zappa had a pathological fear of being liked by mainstream suits and paid curators of culture. if some dumb rock magazine gave him a 5 star review it would be an invalidation of his life's work and everything he stood for.

That’s actually one of, like, four Pearl Jam songs I’ve heard and idk I had a good time with it
Only song in this thread I firmly agree with so far is “Shake It”. Man the sequencing on Let’s Dance was dire (not that “basically the title track again but with overeager backing vocalists and a worse chord progression” would have been great shakes anywhere else on the record, but).

xp of course

xpost
I'm listening to "We're Only in It for the Money" now, for the first time... due to the above comments and the currently active thread about the album.

...So you're telling me this is... Zappa at his *best and most accessible*(!!)??

I'm afraid so.

(Countdown to someone saying that you’re listening to the wrong *version*...)

best, for sure. most accessible, maybe not. but I will say if you don't like this you probably shouldn't bother with Zappa at all. the exception being Hot Rats, a nearly entirely instrumental record that's top notch fusion from top to bottom, and the one record in his catalogue he didn't see fit to 'ruin' in some way

(Countdown to someone saying that you’re listening to the wrong *version*...)

hey, I'll say this without a hint of irony. if the bass sounds like the Seinfeld theme, you've got the garbage '86 version with the re-recorded rhythm section, which Zappa recorded solely to screw over his past bandmates (not that he'd ever admit that, of course). before the Ryko remasters I think that one was the only one available on CD. but idk how available that version is anymore.

i would never call WOIIFTM his most accessible, all the vocals are sped up for one. look for "Hot Rats" or "Apostrophe" for accessible

"We're Only In It For the Money" doesn't sound much like any other Zappa album, so I wouldn't write off morrisp finding something to like among the 700 other albums he made.

I have had a few false starts in the past (I bought, and sold back, "Freak Out!" and "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar") -- perhaps I am just not meant to be a Zappa fan.

Side 2 of "Heroes" is perfect in every way

Bowie is pretty much an unmatched master of the last song: Bewlay Brothers, Rock n Roll Suicide, Lady Grinning Soul, Subterraneans etc etc. Which makes Shake It pretty egregious in his discography, but no way is Let's Dance a great album. OK to good, perhaps.

With so many unannotated CD-only extras on anything remotely "classic", this is proving difficult.

Closer should have ended with "The Eternal". "Decades" is one of the weakest JD songs.

Green Eyes on The Boatman's Call is a big one for me. I'd be more than happy with Far From Me as the closer. I don't think I've listened to Green Eyes more than a couple of times and that's definitely my most played Nick Cave album.

"Decades"?! I don't really agree with anything that's been posted here (except the defenses), but I especially love that song.

Yes how could Decades be considered weak! I mean you can't imagine a better closer for Closer: "Each ritual showed up the door for our wanderings,
opened then shut, and slammed in our face..."

Decades is by favourite Joy Division song.

"caucasian lullaby" on slapp happy's "desperate straights"

Decades is also my fave Joy Division song (together with New Dawn Fades).
I don't mind Green Eyes at all.
I agree that Shake It is the only weak Bowie closer when he had brilliant album finals at least since his second album. Sometimes I'm feeling it with Shake It though.

Appreciate hearing the positive takes on Bike btw. I never thought of it as a good song but perhaps I should revisit it with a more open mind, it may very well 'click' after a while.
(Have to say I'm not the typical Pink Floyd fan anyway - I actually like the Ummagumma studio side, but don't care too much for the Wall, am not overly amazed by Animals - I strongly favour Gilmour post Dark Side.)

Closer should have ended with "The Eternal". "Decades" is one of the weakest JD songs.

wtf?!?!?

"caucasian lullaby" on slapp happy's "desperate straights"

Can't argue with this one though!

Morris if you didn’t like freak out (which is possibly the most accessible Zappa other than hot rats) then it’s probably not your bag

Zappa isn't weird enough for me

yep I've always thought of Zappa as the quintessential "if you can't handle me at my worst..." artist. if you don't like him at his best then just save your time and give up, there's so much great music out there where you don't have to subject yourself to an artist who deliberately tries to piss off even the people who like him

I'd still get Hot Rats though, but only that one

seems like if you like zany sing song whimsy like "Lucifer Sam" or "The Gnome" then "Bike" isn't really far off. idgi maybe there are Syd fans that are "Vegetable Man was a little too far, dude should've reigned it in" but personally anytime i hear a new Syd track no matter how shambolic im like please sir i'd like some more

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau)

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

Is Hot Rats really considered more accessible than Freak Out? Freak Out is the only Zappa album I've heard that I like. Hot Rats was just endless noodling.

depends who you ask I guess. I don't think people are really coming to Zappa for 'accessibility', if you wanted that then you'd be better off with, I dunno, Over-nite Sensation or something. I think it's accessible in that it doesn't do anything to turn the listener off.

xp to self I suppose Absolutely Free is OK and I like My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama off Weasels Ripped My Flesh, but that's about it.

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:12 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The original US version had See Emily Play on it. It was apparently considered bad form in the UK at the time to put hit singles on your album, whereas in the US it was expected that a new album would have the current single(s) on it, with the presence of hit singles used to promote albums. I like "Emily" as well as "Arnold Layne" and "Apples and Oranges" better than anything on Piper.

xposts
It’s funny ‘cuz I like a lot of stuff that seems “Zappa adjacent,” both in style and approach... I read about Zappa music, and it sounds like something I would like... but then when I listen to it, I’m basically “Oh HELL no....”

I gave “Freak Out” a good chance, and I thought I might dig the all-guitar album (I like good playing...)

when I started listening to Zappa I found Hot Rats to be one of the more accessible albums mainly because it has no Frank Zappa vocals or comedy monologues on it

A common reason given for liking certain Zappa albums. Personally, I find those the instrumental jazz-rock of Zappa dull as ditchwater.

those instrumental jazz-rock albums. Jesus, my typing.

Hot Rats has the massive advantage of Beefheart singing on the only track w/ lyrics.

yea that was kind of my experience with him too. the first one I got was Sheik Yerbouti (it was the only one the store had) and when "Broken Hearts are For Assholes" came on my jaw hit the floor. like, seriously, this is the guy who a bunch of hardcore prog-heads say is the greatest ever? that wasn't actually a turn-off, I thought it was kinda fascinating, even though I really wished that the dude who was often praised for his sense of humor was actually *funny* and not just crass. he's like a middle schooler who thinks "put it in your ASS!!!" is the funniest thing ever.

later I came to realize that this was basically his entire shtick. as though the pinnacle of artistic achievement was drawing a big ol' dick on the Mona Lisa. the early days were full of whining about "awww they won't let me say FUCK on a record!" and then when his style of crassness was no longer considered "shocking" (was it back then?) he became even more bitter and desperate. the last straw for me was "Jumbo Go Away" on You Are What You Is (which I'd heard was his best 80's record), even my 17-year old idiot edgelord self thought it was too needlessly cruel and hateful. it singlehandedly made me afraid of getting old.

I guess this is a bit OT

It feels to me like maybe he doesn’t actually like rock ’n’ roll, and is only using it strategically/sarcastically (but maybe that’s not accurate or fair).

nah he loves rock n roll. listen to Crusin With Ruben and the Jets.

Imagos post was a joke right

;)

Zappa is weird and freaky in an incredibly irritating way. He's obviously a cunt - fine - but his music is just the worst kind of fucking around. It has a really vile energy. Whenever Cardiacs get compared to him it makes me literally puke. I'm puking right now

Also I've thought of another example, kind of! The Mars Volta's album Frances The Mute is properly amazing right up until the half-hour closing track, of which maybe eight minutes are required

if you don't like Bike, you hate life

I don't know why, I call him Gerald

Bike is life, alright!

Also I've thought of another example, kind of! The Mars Volta's album Frances The Mute is properly amazing right up until the half-hour closing track, of which maybe eight minutes are required

― imago, Thursday, April 12, 2018 7:18 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok sure but like... idk, the hook for "cassandra gemini" is the best hook of their discography. when they get back around to it after 15 minutes of whatever it's so awesome that i don't care how long it is

That's fair

OK listening to CG and it hasn't gotten dull yet after like 15 minutes, maybe I've misjudged it

Oh no wait here's the bit they should have cut haha

nah he loves rock n roll. listen to Crusin With Ruben and the Jets.

I'm 2/3 into this, and not hating it! He clearly does have a real affinity for '50s R'n'R and doo-wop.

I feel like I'd rather listen to "the real thing" -- or the Lou Reed songs where he goes deep into those styles and creates something new -- than this album, which feels like sort of a "genre exercise"; but I concede it's my first time thru and I'm just listening on the computer.

Cruising is such an anomaly in his catalogue - it's weirdly earnest, you don't get the sense he's just mocking it the way you do with all those hard-rock 70s records. He never did another record quite like it.

Weasels ripped my flesh is wonderful morris

Check out directly from my heart to you

Thanks, will dial that up next!

Why are you bothering with Zappa, so much better stuff to listen to out there? There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw.

Though the main problem with "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" is it sounds like Zappa spent about 5 minutes on the arrangements and 30 minutes on the recording.

Eh, I've got Spotify and nothing but time while I work...

There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw

it was made when all the serious rock bands were doing "back to the basics" and ripping off blues records. those are the targets of the mockery, not the doo wop itself (which is a style he has played his entire career)

anyways theres a lot of mockery in rock. Bob Dylan's entire career is built on sneering at conventions.

it was made when all the serious rock bands were doing "back to the basics" and ripping off blues records. those are the targets of the mockery, not the doo wop itself (which is a style he has played his entire career)

That's a bizarre theory, I must say. The lyrics of doo wop songs are definitely mocked and played for laughs by Zappa. Not all of the album is even doo wop anyway!

sure like usual there are many layers to the satire. but i don't think "doo wop music/50s rock is stupid" itself was one of the intend takes. like he hates lovey dovey lyrics but loves the music.

well yeah

the fact that you have to unwrap it a bit to figure out what he's making fun is what makes it unique. usually Frank ain't so subtle. (though lol @ Cruising with Ruben & the Jets being "subtle")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv6AiaaOOnY

i like "Charva", an early one he did in 1963. same wheelhouse but more Ramones (via singing about sniffing glue)

you can mock something that you like, even have affection for. see also MST3K

Well, I listened to Weasels... I dug the track "Get a Little" (it's too short, in fact!) -- both the lead gtr and bassline are very to my taste. The rest of the LP seems too noodly / chord-changey / listener-antagonistic to jell w/me.

"Get a Little" reminds me of the stuff on Plays That Good Old Rock And Roll, the 2002 album my main man Neil Hagerty (& crew)...

Weasels gets pretty skronky. It has some good stuff tho.

I tried and tried with Zappa but he's just fucking terrible

otm

decided to relisten to "Jumbo Go Away" just to see if it's as vile as I remember. it's actually much worse, though there is a crazy and brilliant middle section that sounds like the Residents on steroids. then afterwards "Jumbo better get back, or your eye will get black, once I give you a smack", filled by a minute of crying noises. anyway, long story short, I hate Frank Zappa now

Hard to think of a major figure who had such little sense of taste as to how to present his talent attractively

There's legends who alienate and rub fans the wrong way but it's hardly ever done as cheaply and as pointlessly

A Ghost is Born shouldn't end with the Late Greats right after the great Less Than You Think, which was the perfect ending.

BIKE IS FUCKING DOPE

I thought I was going to have to vouch hard for “Cassandra Gemini”, but as it is I just want to make the case that an 8-minute funereal jam session is a great final indulgence for a song that’s managed to maintain its energy so well for so long, esp. (as mentioned) when the chorus comes soaring back one last time at the end.

"shut up and play your guitar" is the other zappa album i like, just 3 CDs of guitar solos

Yeah that's one of the ones I owned once. Thought I would dig it! Maybe I'll try dipping back in.

probably doesn't count as it's a hidden track but "Hit to Death in the Future Head" has a nearly 30 minute harsh noise loop as a final track. i've never been able to listen to this great album all the way through.

my patience with songwriters who are either unable or unwilling to write a love song grows shorter as i grow older