Pavement vs. Royal Trux

My two favorite bands! GTFO

That’s some Superman vs. Batman shit

I'm with map on this. RTX FTW!!

this is like bread vs foie gras, if you have to choose one you choose bread

In some ways you and I are v different ppl

It’s heart & soul vs. the cold fire of genius... matter / antimatter; heroes / antiheroes. VU united both registers, the heat & the cold; maybe you could say the Fall did, too, in their heyday. In the ’90s, these forces bifurcated – thank the Elders of the Universe at Drag City for bringing the Infinity Gems together, at least at the inception.

I fucking loathe Pavement so deffo RTX, who were quite "out there" and inspired at times. Oh Pavement tho, jesus wept, what is the point to this type of oversubscribed pedestrian indie-rock shit?

I like turtles

banana question

trux, easy (i like pavement)

Teenage me is all like 'wut?' but Trux, easily.

i love pvmnt. and i can't really listen to rltrx. so, an easy one for me.

http://images.45cat.com/royal-trux-hero-zero-1989-3.jpg

Saw them when they toured together in 97 (Brighten The Corners vs. Sweet Sixteen), unfortunately the Trux were still riding the horse pretty hard at the time and their performance suffered. Pavement was probably riding the Amstel Lights pretty hard and equally suffered but not as visibly. Both bands probably hated each other equally at the time.

Both bands probably hated each other equally at the time.

internally and externally

I didn’t know they toured together in ’97... I saw them both separately that year

Pavement wrote 'Heaven Is A Truck', and ripped the first part of 'Spike Cyclone' for a few bars of 'Half A Canyon'. Malkmus has waxed poetic on them many times:

When Pavement was going, it was Forced Exposure and Gerard Cosloy's Conflict, and it was real, real small. Little bands like the Royal Trux, they were so important, their first album even though weren't even a band yet. (https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/7592-stephen-malkmus/)

"Rain Ammunition" (from a John Peel session): Malkmus: That was like imagining a Sticky Fingers Stones, minor chord-y kind of Royal Trux-y, Stones-y, melancholy, druggy song. I don't know what [the lyrics] are about. I couldn't even tell you. They're just, like, weird shit. (http://www.newsweek.com/stephen-malkmus-guide-pavements-secret-history-359263)

I like bands that have an aura to them. There's a band I like, Royal Trux. They have more of an evil side to them; they're meaner than us. Like, they don't write "nice" songs. I mean, we are nice suburban boys in the end. We try to have a bit of swagger that comes off a little sexist in some lyrics. That's part of our going for that classic-rock thing. (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-pavements-stephen-malkmus-on-painting-curbs-thrift-store-shopping-and-selling-out-19970320)

I like the Royal Trux and Guided By Voices, I think they’re particularly gifted. (https://bombmagazine.org/articles/stephen-malkmus/)

Prior to new album's release, Malkmus talked a bit about what inspired the music, pointing to some unexpected and refreshing touchstones in newer underground rock, like Sic Alps. "They have, to me, taken some of the trashiness of Royal Trux, which is a band I liked a lot, in the right way," he says now. "Sometimes you'll hear these bands like the Kills and MGMT say, 'We're into the Royal Trux.' And you listen to them and think, 'Where is the Royal Trux in this? I don't hear it.' Okay, maybe you're a duo, and you smoke cigarettes and you're tough. You don't get to call yourself Royal Trux-influenced. (http://www.westword.com/music/stephen-malkmus-and-the-jicks-rock-the-gothic-this-week-5123341)

Bit of a boring question, I’m afraid, but what were the five albums that influenced you most? David Portner (Avey Tare), Animal Collective Malkmus: That’s a tough question! Okay – Ege Bamyasi by Can. Loaded by the Velvets, Hex Enduction Hour by The Fall, Born Innocent by Redd Kross, and Cats And Dogs by Royal Trux. There. That’s five. All classics! (http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/an-audience-with-stephen-malkmus-15465#LGM5eXv032DtXE2E.99)

and this hilarious quote from Mark Ibold:

Malkmus has said that this song “Heaven Is a Truck” is about the singer from Royal Trux, meaning Jennifer Herrema, I guess. You’ve referred to her as Jennifer Trux. Have you toured with them? What are they like?
Mark: Actually, we’re about to go on tour with them. I haven’t seen them yet. They’re a straightedge band from DC, as far as I know. Not a lotta info on their record. They’re a couple, Jennifer and Neil, the former Pussy Galore guitar guy. I dig their single “Strawberry Soda.” (https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qbz89x/heart-and-soul-of-band-called-pavement-165-v16n10)

In comparison, how often has Trux commented on Pavement:

JJ: I'll have to check it out on the site. So you've known Berman for a while,

then.

JH: Oh, yes. Longlonglonglong time.

JJ: How about do you know the kids of Pavement?

JH: (pause)

JJ: Like Malkmus or any of those cats.

JH: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. forever and ever. (Interview With Jennifer Herrema, Fabula Magazine, June 2000

Stephen Malkmus: "Jennifer and the Ess-Dog" (Matador)

NMH: Whenever I hear Steve sing, I think, Oh, this dude's British. But this is
cool. It sounds like a cue from a movie. What I like best about his songs is
trying to figure out where all the little pieces come from. What is this?
Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.

TONY: Do you think this song is about you and Jennifer?

NMH: Probably not. His solo thing is great, cause he can sell as many records as
Pavement did, but he doesn't have to split the money. Doo-dah-doodah-doo. Fuck!

What is this?

TONY: When Pavement and Royal Trux were starting out on Drag City, people always
compared the two bands. Now you both have solo debuts.

NMH: Yeah, the timing is an interesting coincidence, though I don't think
there's ever been too many parallels. (Single File : Former Royal Trux king Neil Michael Hagerty burns rubber on some tunes, Time Out Issue 296, May 2001)

STEREOGUM: I’ve seen you play many times over the years in different bands, but the first time I saw Royal Trux play was in Oklahoma and you were opening for Pavement. I just remember that people in the audience were totally freaked out by it. My friends were like, “What the fuck is going on?”

JH: Especially being with Pavement. Steve liked to think we had so much in common but I think we frightened a lot of their audience, Basically we had Pavement’s dressing room to ourselves every night because they were so freaked out over what we might be doing. I was like “Yeah, just stay on the bus.” (https://www.stereogum.com/953531/progress-report-jennifer-herrema/franchises/progress-report)

figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.

IS THAT A QUESTION?

appeal denied

Neither band here interests me and my taste is pretty indie.

I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high xpost

psyglr -vs- pvmnt would be harder for me cuz i loved pg but i don't really listen to them anymore and i will still play pavement CDs so they win there too i think. plus, i like everything that pavement did pretty much. every album. can't say that about everybody. started on a high note. ended on a high note. more people should do that.

I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high

red light makes me think i'm going the wrong way, hombre

the point is only rtx made accelerator

not taken in by all that funky narration

So weird to me that anyone finds these two bands all that similar. They do both feature singing and guitars, I guess.

these bands are both pretty divisive. It would be fun to do a mega 90s indie poll (GBV, Pavement, Superchunck, etc).
I'd probably take Superchunk over any one.

Both bands have my heart, but one has my undivided attention.

...is that a question?

Pavement: better songs. tho Hagerty solo & Black Bananas both get play from me. my RTX time is like...I bought those records, I enjoyed them at the time, and that time is gone

Probably a point prior to the 2nd s/t RT record and Slanted & Enchanted (so 1992 I guess) where this was might have been a contest, but basically everything RT did from that record on has been great and most of what Pavement has done since has been good to okay.

Jennifer doesn’t like pavement FYI

Royal trux is the right answer

Thinking Fellers is the right answer.

This is rtx so easy I feel kinda mean to Malkmus

Lol at the idea Joan Crawford's still listening to Pavement records

I had a Royal Trux album in the '90 - even liked it. I don't know what happened to it. Stoned noisy clatter as I recall. Cool but not particularly distinctive from a bunch of other bands doing stoned noisy clatter at the time. Pavement, well, probably one of the most influential bands of the decade, and one still ripped off by many bands that I like and listen to today. So them.

I remember RT as a noisy band without hooks but it’s been a minute

previous two posts describe certain RTX efforts but i think of them as melodical and hooky as shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlewx88Gr8

I remember RT as a noisy band without hooks but it’s been a minute

think of them as more groove than hook though I still get "junkie nurse"'s irritating refrain caught in my head from time to time

not as irritating as juicy juice iirc

Both of these bands are like classic rock for me. RTX was more difficult / harder to get into, but totally mysterious / badass, and they seemed to lack that suffocating self-awareness that Pavement possessed. Good match up, but I think Royal Trux could beat up Pavement if it came down to it. Love Transmaniacon, NMH's first solo/self-titled album, and a lot of Malk's solo (+ the Jicks) material.

As for vocal skills, Royal Trux crushes Pavement.

Don't really listen to Malkmus anymore, but I'm still 'discovering' Royal Trux gems.

i honestly haven't listened to a whole lot of royal trux but i'll take "xi" by howling hex over anything pavement or malkmus did. hagerty is such an amazing guitar player.

weird thread

youre weird

fair

Trux Trux Trux

figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.

― whitehallunity, Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:23 AM(yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is u&k but I think merits even a little more elaboration. There's a familiar indie metatrope about projects which, initially mired in abrasive outsider/underground aesthetics--entirely listener-unfriendly--manage to pull themselves out of the muck & murk and embrace pop structure. This is a decent if generalized description of RTX's first four albums, but it could also apply to Ariel Pink, or Sonic Youth, or any number of classic indie bands: that's why it's a metatrope. Another metatrope is the band who plays with a specific genre and its well-established tropes but manage to throw in enough anomalous, quirky elements that no one could ever confuse their music for the real thing. Again, this is an okay summation of Trux circa Cats & Dogs/Thank You , where the residual scuzzy noise, spaced out vocals, and lo-fi sound marks the albums as distinctive, 'artistic' takes on Southern rock.

But usually bands and artists who go down this road, once they develop their singular signature modes of offkilter genre deconstruction, they tend to run with it and then run it into the ground. What they don't do--oftentimes because they don't have the real chops to do this--is actually work out a convincing 'straight' version of the genre they're fucking with, the way Trux manage, to an extent, with Sweet Sixteen and then wholly with Pound for Pound . Another thing they don't usually do is stumble upon an entirely distinct, secondary mode of quirky genre dislocation such as the batshit spectrum-analyzer plastique of Accelerator & the first side of Veterans . The higher impression one gets from all of this is not just of a bizarro version of rock but of a finely-calibrated tug of war between rock and bizarro elements that feel like the product of a lot of higher-level thinking about what rock is, and what it can mean.

great post, and 100% otm

more like Royal Sux

big 4:

Slayer = Royal Trux
Metallica = Pavement
Megadeth = ?
Anthrax = ?

I'm kinda thinking Anthrax might be Sebadoh, which would make the Folk Implosion SOD.

Royal Trux, IME, had in common with Beefheart a dissuasively-high difficulty level that served as an initial barrier of entry, but both bands ultimately rewarded my perseverance in spades and continue to do so. I went obsessively all-in with Pavement for a long stretch but it turns out that they just didn't hold my attention in the long run. Like there just didn't seem to be that many depths to plumb. Still love a lot of their stuff, though, particularly Wowee Zowee.

megadeath = jesus lizard

Jesus lizerd

i've made my peace with the fact that royal trux are a joke that i don't get. it amazing how their music totally reminds me of being around really annoying people who are really high though. i totally want to get away from them. so, just as a spot-on approximation of junkie annoyance and whining they are successful to me.

also, vocally they both just remind me of muppets in a weird way and that's a personal reason why i can't really take listening to them for very long. constipated muppets.

Come will always be my number one '90s Stones-loving junk-inspired indie rock band of all time. They had the best vocalists too. and amazing songs.

The 'Westing' collection plus the first 3 albums are absolutly classic in my book. Pretty varied and awesome.

I love the Royal Trux sound, but those four PAVEMENT albums have too many great songs.

"including solo careers" tips this over to Trux for me, I like NMH's solo stuff way more than Malkmus, and RTX/BB vs. Spiral Stairs is a blowout

"it amazing how their music totally reminds me of being around really annoying people who are really high though. i totally want to get away from them. so, just as a spot-on approximation of junkie annoyance and whining they are successful to me."

oh shit you might have just ruined RT for me

Verbena's Souls for Sale is my "number one '90s Stones-loving junk-inspired indie rock band"

Accelerator is the best album

Uhh..is that a kazoo on “another year?”
And uh maybe they could take the time to tune the guitars before rolling the tape on “yellow kid?”

Not even going to bring up “banana question”

Sorry Brim, not to rank on you. I guess I had to be there

For my money, if I want to hear don't-give-a-fuck, splay-footed, ersatz, atonal Stones jams I'd probably listen to U.S. Maple.

fuck, imagine Jennifer Herrema singing for us maple.. with U.S. Maple

brimstead is very close to correct. Maybe not the best but probably top ten.

US Maple was great but they did their own thing (which, DGAF as it may have sounded, was revealed to be tight and calculated as hell if you ever saw them live) and Trux did theirs.

Another metatrope is the band who plays with a specific genre and its well-established tropes but manage to throw in enough anomalous, quirky elements that no one could ever confuse their music for the real thing. Again, this is an okay summation of Trux circa Cats & Dogs/Thank You , where the residual scuzzy noise, spaced out vocals, and lo-fi sound marks the albums as distinctive, 'artistic' takes on Southern rock.

The thing I actually liked most about RTX around this time was that I didn't think that they were playing with a specific genre. I don't think "Southern rock" encapsulates it. I mean, it was rock music for sure but that can mean many things and I think it did mean many things in their music. Like Richard Meltzer would have said something like "Rock is an eclectic form" - well sure, it was at one time. It was before most rock bands started identifying themselves with some particular strain, some particular sub-genre. Trux were one of the only bands around at the time, I felt, who were open to all kinds of things and also knew their records and could hit on all sorts of things. I saw them play a song from Pet Sounds once.

US Maple was great but they did their own thing (which, DGAF as it may have sounded, was revealed to be tight and calculated as hell if you ever saw them live)

this is otm, I don't think there's a single note out of place on any U.S. Maple record

neither one of these bands is remotely on US Maple's level

plus Skin Graft was it's whole own world and doesn't even belong in this convo, rtx and pavement were very conventional rock bands at the end of the day

this is my kinda '90s indie rock record. for the record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzoCfZtE3v0

Would add the Grifters' One Sock Missing to the relatively-conventional 90s Stones-scuzz indie rock convo

US Maple, esp by the end of the 90s were in a completely different realm - including other Skin Graft people

i don't think i've ever listened to a us maple album.

come were and are my fave american 90s indie rock band. i like every song they recorded. which is unheard of!

I feel like Pavement had a more focused approach when composing and cared more about their music than Royal Trux.

I also think this counts as making their brand of slacker indie wrong.

pavement records sound sooooooo good to me. those guitars. like way better to me than most similar stuff. i don't know how they did it. its the reason i still listen to them.

Yeah, the “haunt you down” / “Fillmore Jive” tone is nice and warm

lot of weird opinions itt

i love both these bands but will not be voting in this poll because it seems weird to compare them. other than being contemporaries and briefly being on the same label, they don't have much in common in terms of sound or approach or goals or aesthetic. it's like doing liz phair vs. silkworm or something.

otm

it feels like the purpose of this thread is to make old people feel cool for voting for royal trux over pavement. which is a purpose i support. i pick royal trux.

thank you poll, I had not listened to Royal Trux since the 90s & now I have & I like it.

what's a good place to start w/ trux? ive been intrigued by them but haven't really gone in

pavement's okay, i could take em or leave em tbh

these guys here are pros but I've been playing Cats & Dogs

marcos get Veterans of Disorder or Accelerator

it feels like the purpose of this thread is to make old people feel cool for voting for royal trux over pavement. which is a purpose i support. i pick royal trux.

― na (NA), Monday, May 21, 2018 10:33 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

cats & dogs isn't my personal favorite but it makes sense as a midpoint where you can listen to it and then if you want them to be noisier and weirder, you can listen to the earlier albums, or if you want them to be more cohesive you can listen to the later albums (which is not a diss, i generally prefer the "rock" albums)

^^That’s what I always say (you stole my wise counsel)!

(NB - probably no one has ever actually asked me so I’ve never actually said it)

Funny Malkmus should mention MGMT as a band who shouldn't be citing them as an influence, as when I first heard Time To Pretend I thought it sounded like a super poppy Royal Trux, even down to thinking their vocalist sounded like Jennifer (who ended up singing with them anyway)

I personally believe Trux has no “peers,” in the same way that Kubrick doesn’t or someone else very singular in their field. (Maybe that’s BS, but I’m stickin to it.)

By contrast, Pavement had “peers,” they just happened to be the very best at what they did.

marcos get Veterans of Disorder or Accelerator

― Οὖτις, Monday, May 21, 2018 11:47 AM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thank u

I'm skeptical of anyone voting Trux. Trux were really more of a project, or a concept, albeit a concept brilliantly realized. Although they made it sound effortless, it seemed like they were definitely trying to be this or that on every record.

This was true if Pavement on the first 3 EPs, but from Slanted on they were, like, a real Band with their own voice and style, not working from a blueprint. It was a band you could grow with, identity with, who presented a more expansive ethos you could kinda lose yourself in.

IDK sorry this is just how I feel etc

thank u

start there imho!

ok lol

haha

don't start there though, for real

(not to slag it off, it's a great record, but when I first heard it I was put off by the super-fussy bass playing all over everything)

I don't think there's a ton in common here beyond a few very generic points:
- both bands started off as scuzzy sounding noise projects, but then gradually shifted into more "classic rock" formats
- both were briefly on Drag City
- both feature very inventive, unique guitarists
- both are fronted by very smart, literate, conceptually-oriented people

that being said, their respective catalogs sound very, very different and RT esp went all over the place in a way Pavement/Malkmus did not.

love 'em both, not voting

*whispers*

sometimes royal trux reminds me of nyc hipster ween

"weird opinions" otm, and nothing wrong with that, but the reductive "tuneless noise" take is so misguided and anyone who writes Royal Trux off as that is cheating herself out of some of the best rawk of that era

US Maple was great but they did their own thing (which, DGAF as it may have sounded, was revealed to be tight and calculated as hell if you ever saw them live) and Trux did theirs.

― Now I know my ABCs. Next time won't you scream at me? (Old Lunch), Monday, May 21, 2018 12:37 AM (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag

Harry Pussy were like this, too. That Beefheart thing of "you think it's random unstructured noise but watch them repeat exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, and now behold a level of obsession almost too insane to be believed"

i'm not trying to troll here but people who don't like pavement are dumb.

Although they made it sound effortless, it seemed like they were definitely trying to be this or that on every record.

This might be why I'm not as fond of the later records. But I don't think it's true of the third, fourth, and fifth albums, when they just sounded like a band to me. A band with a pretty wide scope.

Or even the super early records like the first album or those tracks on the ROIR tape - I don't see those as being one thing.

What Is Royal Trux?

they were a rock band

You guys keep mispelling Trucks, it's imbarrassing.

there isn't a single song by Royal Trux that comes close to "Grounded" but overall I gotta go with them.

Hmm. Might actually agree with that post.

(Rather, plenty of Trux songs come close to 'Grounded' but I'm trying to think of some/any that top it in my esteem.)

Trux at their best were dynamite. "Fear Strikes Out" is dynamite.

what's that song that has its own thread on the noize board?

Oh neat ROYAL TRUX are on spotify now! Thanks thread for eeminding about them last time I checked they weren’t there.

It’s missing some of their best albums though :/

Honestly I agree there’s really not much connecting both bands sound-wise to warrant a face off.

Don’t know about the noize board, but here’s a Trux song with its own ILM thread:

Royal Trux - "The United States vs One 1974 Cadillac El Dorado Sedan"

that song - and the '3 song ep' that is came from is just about my favourite RT

on this question though - i just find that Royal Trux has so much more long term value - so many nooks and crannies and new things to discover - Pavement seems less opaque and more like a fun good time that is easier to wear out

well RTX discography is probably what 4 times the size of Pavement's (including post-Trux solo work)

dis one
shockwave rider

That title is from a john brunner book

are the stoners cooler than the nerds

maybe, maybe not, but here I will go with the jocks

(gbv)

I think u mean alcoholics

that too

both bands were stoned as shit

Yeah malkmus was def a stoner during pavement

Pavement could be far more chill, and easy to vibe with. Everything through BTC is just great. Terror Twilight had some great b-sides, "No More Tan Lines" etc. those little eps for Major Leagues and Shady Lane.. Trigger Cut b-sides are sweet, too. RTX was just ramped up, on another level.. I'm still discovering them.

ftr i started this thread cuz i saw something about JH dissing Pavement recently. also i wanted to read people talk about royal trux vs pavement. and na was also otm

it feels like the purpose of this thread is to make old people feel cool for voting for royal trux over pavement. which is a purpose i support. i pick royal trux.

― na (NA), Monday, May 21, 2018 4:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i like pavement a lot but don't care for malkmus solo. i guess a better poll would have been hagerty vs. malkmus? or even better a single bump to the neil michael hagerty thread reading "good stuff"

Solo Malk and Hag have basically nothing to do with their old bands (aesthetically), and even less to do with each other than Pavement & Trux had in common (which was purely circumstantial, not aesthetic)

Jennifer doesn’t like pavement FYI

― Right column Leftist (sunny successor), Saturday, May 19, 2018 3:05 PM

So, to flesh out whitehallunity's impressive collection of interview excerpts upthread:

Drug habits notwithstanding, Royal Trux managed to stay prolific throughout the early 90s while garnering interest from majors, including their eventual label Virgin, stumbling to find the next Nirvana. Hagerty points towards Herrema opposite: "Do you remember what they said to us? They told us, 'We already have The Rolling Stones, but we want THE NEW Rolling Stones'. I was crying with joy inside when they said that, but I was trying to be cool. I was trying to be that 90s version of cool. What was that called again?"

"Slacker?" I blurt out, feeling I've set myself up for a bad joke.

"Oh yeah?" Hagerty ripostes pokerfaced. "You mean like Pavement?" Herrema buries her head in her hands at the mere mention of the titans of smarty-pants indie, groaning, "They suck!"

"See?" Hagerty prods, pushing his seat back. "She said that shit! Not me!" He says the last line with a glint in his eyes, like a kid who just goaded his little sister into uttering a swear word.

-- The Wire 399 (May 2017)

Were you a jerk? In a Stereogum oral history, you said people may have thought you were aloof.

I don’t think I was so bad then. Still, no one liked me. There were some definite role models of jerkdom back then, like [the producer] Steve Albini. The whole fanzine culture, Gerard Cosloy [the editor of Conflict], was snarky and sarcastic, like Mad Magazine gone hipster, with music. And there were really bitchy bands, like Royal Trux.

-- NY Times (May 14, 2018)

(That second one is Malkmus, btw)

I knew about those two but wasn't able to find them when I was pulling the others in here, so thanks.

NP... future generations will judge ours by how thoroughly we had documented these exchanges!

I saw both bands and RT was always weird, shambling, inscrutable onstage. Pavement, the music was easier to get a handle on but rarely has band so hugely infuriated me live, I walked out of a show cuz no one seemed to know how to play the songs and Malkmus was so aloof & seemingly bored.

It is interesting to read his take on his stage demeanor now...at the time he seemed to me at least, listening to the records & standing in the crowd, very prickly.

Both bands discogs have aged much better then I would have expected.

Oh neat ROYAL TRUX are on spotify now! Thanks thread for eeminding about them last time I checked they weren’t there.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, May 21, 2018 4:24 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It’s missing some of their best albums though :/

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, May 21, 2018 4:25 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they're in the process of adding them, they seem to be doing three albums each month. they're all going to be up there eventually

was there ever a drag city announcement re: spotify or did they just quietly start putting stuff up there

My dirty secret as a Pavement fan is that I often found Bob N.’s onstage “contributions” to be irritating/extraneous, and wished he wasn’t there... :/

(Although he was great at Lollapalooza, running around the stage and taunting mud-throwers in the crowd.)

there was a drag city announcement; however, the royal trux stuff is coming from fat possum where they're signed now

My dirty secret as a Pavement fan is that I often found Bob N.’s onstage “contributions” to be irritating/extraneous, and wished he wasn’t there... :/

kinda feel this... but he's such a great dude I can't help but like him in any context

He seemed to be the "heart & soul" of the band, for sure!

he was like the bosstones dude or the happy mondays acid gremlin, right? yeah, these people are always annoying.

i never cared about seeing them live though. the records were all i needed.

i thought they were pretty terrible at pitchfork

Were Royal Trux a great live experience? Never saw em. I looked all the Pavement gigs I saw but they weren't really an essential live act

liked

Trux could be "variable," I guess -- but when they were "on," there was no one better!

no one better??? really doe?

Well, NMH is my favorite musician -- it doesn't get any better than his gtr playing for me -- and RTX were one of my favorite bands! So those shows were as good as it gets for me (equaled/topped only by certain NMH shows). Obviously, YMMV!

Trux were great when I finally got to see them last year. Pavement were highly variable as a live band - from great to absolutely abysmal/sloppy/lazy

i wonder if i had seen royal trux back in the day if i would have been a convert. could be. i never got to see pussy galore much to my regret.

i'm going to see matt valentine and j. mascis's neil young cover band tomorrow night! i hope its as wasted as it should be.

Maybe, I really liked RT and was always a bit befuddled by them live probably the best time was circa 1992 which I believe would have been the 2nd self-titled record opening for Sonic Youth, an ur-90s show!

That time they were most like an actual rock band and I was like kind of "hmmm" though I really loved the records and never thought they were bad, it was clear they were doing something else

my favorite musician is sonny sharrock

Steve Forbert

Look, we all have our favorites!

i'm just being silly i have nothing to contribute here

both bands are good

i love music

:)

Four times I saw RTX:

1. Third album out, but something close to Cats and Dogs lineup (I think) already in place. Great show, I seem to recall. This was when they did “I’ Waiting for the Day” from Pet Sounds. Band pretty loose.

2. Hagerty/Herrema with drum machine/tapes, I guess, when Cats and Dogs was out. Didn’t like it as much as the previous show, but I think I liked it overall. Hagerty played some violin.

3. The next night, I think. We drove up to see them in Orange County or L.A. and I think this was a showcase for them. Possibly for. Virgin. Whole band with the two drummers. Seem to recall they were great. Way tighter than the band from the first show.

4. After Thank You. Same band, but I think minus one drummer. Thought they were playing the songs too fast.

now, let's get into the most important stuff- NMH vs Malk on Twitter. gotta go with malk, he's a bit more breezy and fun. NMH is responsible for wil wheaton appearing in my feed

malkmus had a better twitter impersonator account too. but i don't know overall. i saw wesley willis open for royal trux at gabe's in iowa city. wesley was sitting at an empty table before the show, drawing. he was happy to show his chicago skyline sketch to early birds. his show was amazing. jennifer and neil watching like normal starstruck fans. then they tore the place apart. i can't remember a single song, just the personification of rock n roll strutting on stage. pavement / malkmus = favorites too live and on record just way more self-conscious

NMH follows me, so he obv. wins ;)

"Gotta build your rock on the Ray-O-Vac" still one of the most hilarious things ever.

Thank You was like the summit of the most unusual, triumphant rise in rock history.

"Were Royal Trux a great live experience?"

Eh...they were pretty poor the time I saw them open for Sonic Youth, just basement skronk on a big stage. Might have been a more musical event in a small place, but to me it was more something to endure at this gig.

Thank You was like the summit of the most unusual, triumphant rise in rock history.

― timellison, Saturday, May 26, 2018 1:06 PM (fifty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

finally someone besides me views Thank You as some sort of peak

IMO it was the beginning of the peak! — Thank You thru 3-Song EP. (Sweet 16 being the highest elevation of the peak)

this is such a thrilling performance, I never saw Pavement live so can't attest to their consistency but this is a very high peak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_i4C8axWBs

Flawless performance, funny and emotive showmanship, Malkmus clearly conflicted, at once bored and completely in the moment. The context - the first song of their second to last show ever - is almost beside the point.

youtube commenter otm:

Ben Jones
Malkmus's energy is so cool in this vid. It's like a mix of feeling it and pissed off frustration that culminates in jigging around with the guitar behind his head

They're riding the razor's edge in this video. It's just amazing.

For parity, here is the best RTX video on the Internet: https://youtu.be/TpzmoBniw_I

My dirty secret as a Pavement fan is that I often found Bob N.’s onstage “contributions” to be irritating/extraneous, and wished he wasn’t there... :/

but when you find out that bob was literally the only thing holding it all together, you have to understand his performances as a sort of demented yet earnest cheerleading (allez! allez! allez!).

listened to way more pavement but trux still feels like the right answer.

Bob is cool

Chances of Pavement covering Money for Nothing seem v low, another point in RTX's favour

Just listening to Accelerator and realising a) Reggie was pretty much quoting and b) RTX have some weirdass lyrics

The context - the first song of their second to last show ever - is almost beside the point.

i feel just the opposite - to me the context is everything in that video. it's a good performance, but SM looks so over it and ready to be done. he looks like a very tired driver doing anything he/she can think of to stay awake so as not to crash.

All that is evident in the performance itself though imo.

qualmsley I didn't know you were a quad cities person

Playing guitar swinging around and behind his head at first as a bored joke, turning both times into a graceful trance; the way he sings, quavering and moving from eye rolling ("i know the medical world could knock you out") and belting it (the last "boys are dying on these streets"). Sounds like they're all walking a high wire.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

voted trux one of my alltime faves, both great tho (dont really vibe to later pavement tbh)

Chances of Pavement covering Money for Nothing seem v low, another point in RTX's favour

― albvivertine, Monday, May 28, 2018 2:41 AM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I could totally see malk covering DS tbh

they wld do walk of life tho, with implied sports bloopers

palace wld go for brothers in arms

I've never heard either band, I almost bought a Royal Trux album once though.

theyre good u shd check them out

Pavement 4 Life and all that, but voted RTX

Love howling hex xi and all night fox records so much

Pavement will win as they should

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

check that expiration date man.

Ha ha -- Pave fans seem to be the silent majority (I didn't vote!)

duh

Kinda surprised there are even 102 active people on ILX tbh

Yeah that's unexpectedly high participation.

margin's closer than it should be

Jennifer’s gonna be pissed!

Lol at this turnout

trux is like loser rock or something thought, right? so they shouldn't win probably. jocks -vs- burnouts.

id just like to point out for the record this poll had high participation, was fun and educational and not weird

I hated it. Made me think of people I hate

you should spend less time hating people, probably

I'm jamming "Cats & Dogs" rn -- one for the underdog!

I maintain that Pvmnt is the best indie band in this timestream, while RTX is like something that crossed over from an alternate timestream - or something.

fair

id just like to point out for the record this poll had high participation, was fun and educational and not weird

― you bet, nancy (map), Friday, June 1, 2018 1:19 AM (fourteen hours ago)

fwiw I commented "weird thread" initially because the commentary was so one-sided in favor of RTX and I found that surprising

i voted in this! I felt emboldened by the abortion referendum!

pavement suck!

it was fun, educational *and* weird imo

their throats are filled with (h)(b)ugs

I didn't know, until this thread, how zealous RTX partisans are, makes me wanna do a deep dig to see if I can see things their way

Hagerty is top 5 guitarists for me.

Who are other 4(?)

I'm gonna guess shakey's other four as Lou, Verlaine, Hazel and...maybe the gang of four guy, how'd I do

I'll see your 4 and raise you: Jason Pierce, Sly Stone, Grasshopper & Pops Staples

jimmy nolen?

Other four? Hazel, for sure. Neil Young. Michio Kurihara. Maybe one of the founding metal guys - page or iommi or blackmore - for fifth.

Love a lot of the others mentioned but wouldnt say they are really virtuosos

bless you for bringing blackmore in, good call

Pavement never shocked me. Good indie rock band but apart from a few songs I never loved anything they did, it was just like ok it's 1994 and yr a teenager hanging in central AK,you have to like Pavement. When I heard RTX it was like wtf is this it's doing many weird unexpected things oh and then putting out a 70's rock record.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34610540_10155616577271589_5008571413536178176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=255468b59e0eb14906f03b9f6ba878d3&oe=5BB4AF6F

Royal Trux obviously the best answer
Wtf